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How will the BoJo exit betting look after the May locals? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited April 17 in General
imageHow will the BoJo exit betting look after the May locals? – politicalbetting.com

So Johnson and others in Downing Street appear to have survived being fined for not following the strict regime that they set up to fight COVID and punters make it almost an evens chance he’ll make it through to 2024 as PM.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,638
    It may be just a little bit premature to say that Boris has survived. What happens if he is issued a second FPN, or a third, or a fourth?

    I really don't think he is out of this yet. He has set a precedent of accepting the Met's determination and moving on. Will he try to do so again? And again? And again?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,158
    The political reality is that the Saviour of Kiev is not likely to be ousted for the venial sins of hypocrisy, law-breaking and lying to Parliament.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,111
    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Ross played an absolute blinder a few months ago, when he managed to get unanimity in his parliamentary group for the Johnson resignation call.

    … then blew it all in a few short seconds when he did one of the most humiliating u-turns in modern Scottish political history.

    He’s a dead duck.
    But why did he do the U-turn?? That's what I can't understand.
    He realised that The Truss would be taking over if Bozo goes.
    But would he be any worse off? She can hardly be less popular in Scotland than Mr J. Or is there some history I am missing?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394
    Unsurprisingly, life mean's life in this case:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61094059
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    edited April 13
    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    Talk of several fines and a £10,000 fine for Boris. Then there's Sunak's fury about being dumped on with this. And the full Sue Gray report likely out next week. And the first backbencher just called for Boris to stand down.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,521
    It might depend on the details (if any) in the Gray Report. Was Boris staggering from party to party with a beer in his hand, or innocently going about the business of running the country when ambushed by cake and streamers?

    His old paper was not encouraging:-
    Final Sue Gray report ‘will not make comfortable reading for Boris Johnson’
    ‘Partygate’ dossier could be released as early as next week and will be critical of the Prime Minister’s conduct, sources tell The Telegraph

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/12/sue-gray-report-set-published-mps-return-parliament-next-week/ (£££)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,799
    FPT:
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:
    Ross played an absolute blinder a few months ago, when he managed to get unanimity in his parliamentary group for the Johnson resignation call.

    … then blew it all in a few short seconds when he did one of the most humiliating u-turns in modern Scottish political history.

    He’s a dead duck.
    But why did he do the U-turn?? That's what I can't understand.
    He realised that The Truss would be taking over if Bozo goes.
    But would he be any worse off? She can hardly be less popular in Scotland than Mr J. Or is there some history I am missing?
    Just me dissing Liz.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,799
    tlg86 said:

    Unsurprisingly, life mean's life in this case:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61094059

    Apostrophe mean's mistake.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,455
    Heathener said:

    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


    So you are saying that because they are both of Indian descent they have the same political views and priorities?

    I suppose as you think all old white male gammons think the same way it’s perfectly ok to think that way but interesting.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


    So you are saying that because they are both of Indian descent they have the same political views and priorities?

    I suppose as you think all old white male gammons think the same way it’s perfectly ok to think that way but interesting.
    You can't blame her. The media are forever talking about "The Asian Community" as if it were a homogenous lump.

    Why only this morning I asked my wife what the Asian Community thought about Bozo and Rishi Rich getting fined.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,615
    DavidL said:

    It may be just a little bit premature to say that Boris has survived. What happens if he is issued a second FPN, or a third, or a fourth?

    I really don't think he is out of this yet. He has set a precedent of accepting the Met's determination and moving on. Will he try to do so again? And again? And again?

    Nothing will happen. Tory MPs had their chance and showed themselves frit. Boris is not and has already taken down Sunak, and will take down anyone else who puts their head in the shop window too.

    He will leave when Tory voters make it very clear he is no longer wanted, not before.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 9,068

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    I heartily recommend one of the books on this list, The Last Town on Earth by Thomas Mullen, about the 1918 influenza epidemic. It's a really good read. The author is also a friend of mine and a great guy!
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,525

    It might depend on the details (if any) in the Gray Report. Was Boris staggering from party to party with a beer in his hand, or innocently going about the business of running the country when ambushed by cake and streamers?

    His old paper was not encouraging:-
    Final Sue Gray report ‘will not make comfortable reading for Boris Johnson’
    ‘Partygate’ dossier could be released as early as next week and will be critical of the Prime Minister’s conduct, sources tell The Telegraph

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/12/sue-gray-report-set-published-mps-return-parliament-next-week/ (£££)

    Do we know what stage the fixed penalty notices are at. There was a suggestion on the BBC live feed, although acknowledged as an unconfirmed third party suspicion, that the Met might be issuing fines in date order and that the 30 fines issued yesterday might have been primarily for Boris's birthday party.

    Now, firstly, if that were the case, that's a sizeable party, but also, Boris might have paid multiple fines for different breaches by the end of all this and we may have multiple news cycles of this before Gray is finally released.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Pro_Rata said:

    It might depend on the details (if any) in the Gray Report. Was Boris staggering from party to party with a beer in his hand, or innocently going about the business of running the country when ambushed by cake and streamers?

    His old paper was not encouraging:-
    Final Sue Gray report ‘will not make comfortable reading for Boris Johnson’
    ‘Partygate’ dossier could be released as early as next week and will be critical of the Prime Minister’s conduct, sources tell The Telegraph

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/12/sue-gray-report-set-published-mps-return-parliament-next-week/ (£££)

    Do we know what stage the fixed penalty notices are at. There was a suggestion on the BBC live feed, although acknowledged as an unconfirmed third party suspicion, that the Met might be issuing fines in date order and that the 30 fines issued yesterday might have been primarily for Boris's birthday party.

    Now, firstly, if that were the case, that's a sizeable party, but also, Boris might have paid multiple fines for different breaches by the end of all this and we may have multiple news cycles of this before Gray is finally released.
    We know that they are doing it event by event - I'm not sure if that means in date order although it would be logical.

    But I'm not sure that more FPNs for attending gatherings hurts Boris any more than one does - we already know that his view at the time of what was permissible differs from the police's view now, and multiple FPNs doesn't change that. Unless he gets a 10Ker for organising.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,638
    Pro_Rata said:

    It might depend on the details (if any) in the Gray Report. Was Boris staggering from party to party with a beer in his hand, or innocently going about the business of running the country when ambushed by cake and streamers?

    His old paper was not encouraging:-
    Final Sue Gray report ‘will not make comfortable reading for Boris Johnson’
    ‘Partygate’ dossier could be released as early as next week and will be critical of the Prime Minister’s conduct, sources tell The Telegraph

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/12/sue-gray-report-set-published-mps-return-parliament-next-week/ (£££)

    Do we know what stage the fixed penalty notices are at. There was a suggestion on the BBC live feed, although acknowledged as an unconfirmed third party suspicion, that the Met might be issuing fines in date order and that the 30 fines issued yesterday might have been primarily for Boris's birthday party.

    Now, firstly, if that were the case, that's a sizeable party, but also, Boris might have paid multiple fines for different breaches by the end of all this and we may have multiple news cycles of this before Gray is finally released.
    If these were for attendance at the "surprise" birthday party I am presuming that most of the cabinet will have got one. Why has Rishi been specifically named, he asks naively. They also seem more than a tad harsh.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    People sometimes make the absurd claim I am this Sean character. I'm not. He seems to have much more fun than me

    But if people continue to do this, I reserve the right to mention his name and works, as I am a big fan of his writing, if not his decadent lifestyle

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    Can't you potentially get £10k fine if you have been found to consistently been breaking the COVID restrictions? Boris is going need another sugar daddy to pay for that....
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 9,068

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


    So you are saying that because they are both of Indian descent they have the same political views and priorities?

    I suppose as you think all old white male gammons think the same way it’s perfectly ok to think that way but interesting.
    They're in the same cabinet of the same party under the same pm, so I imagine there's some convergence of views.

    The Scottish Raj (©Paxman I think) used to be very much a thing, so..Nowadays it's pretty much whittled down to Gove and he's more a radge, particularly after a brush with the fine exports of Peru and Bolivia.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 9,068
    Leon said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    People sometimes make the absurd claim I am this Sean character. I'm not. He seems to have much more fun than me

    But if people continue to do this, I reserve the right to mention his name and works, as I am a big fan of his writing, if not his decadent lifestyle

    I'm the other way round.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    (FPT)
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it


    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/



    I would add The Stand (possibly the great American Novel; certainly better than the tripe from Steinbeck and co) as a plague novel (despite it ostensibly being "horror").

    But that does nothing to undermine your thesis with which I concur.
    It makes total sense. Who wants to remember the ventilators, the gasping noises, the lockdowns, the depression, the temporary morgues, the not-seeing-family-for-two-years, the lonely deaths, the lack of sex, the lack of hugs, the lack of everything, the tedium, the fear, the jabs, the illness, the pain, the Chinese killing all their pets, the whole damn thing is just a terrible terrible horror show and we will thrust it from our minds just as soon as we can

    The blurring and erasure has already begun. We were discussing on here t'other day how we'd all forgotten that Tiger Woods was in a car crash in early 2021. It's because it happened during The Pestilence and it is being speedily dumped along with all the other memories of that time

    Indeed, I suspect this is an evolved function of the human brain. We cope with horrific traumas and move on, through a process of selective amnesia

    Wars get remembered because they are not entirely horrific, they have stories and victories and heroes

    "Russian warship, go fuck yourself" is by itself a more pleasing story than anything that has come out of Covid, in the last two disgusting years, even the vaccine

    "Covid variant, go fuck yourself" doesn't work, because there is no visible enemy to insult and defy, just this nightmare THING out there in the air
    The compelling argument for me is the fact that (until WW1 usurped it) the scar on the collective psyche of the English Civil War *far outstripped* the scar of the Great Plague.
    That because people took sides - which were also aligned with their religious beliefs - and that continued to affect entire families long after the was and Restoration.
    Of course for our own recent plague, there's been quite a lot of side taking. I fully expect at least one plague novel from some hack or other on just that basis. Perhaps SeanT could mull over the idea.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited April 13

    Can't you potentially get £10k fine if you have been found to consistently been breaking the COVID restrictions? Boris is going need another sugar daddy to pay for that....

    It doubles with each FPN up to a maximum IIRC of £64k.

    What I don't know is whether the doubling only applies to infractions committed after the issuing of a previous FPN.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,596

    tlg86 said:

    Unsurprisingly, life mean's life in this case:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61094059

    Apostrophe mean's mistake.
    All the sign's that it was a shit idea were there from the start.


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


    So you are saying that because they are both of Indian descent they have the same political views and priorities?

    I suppose as you think all old white male gammons think the same way it’s perfectly ok to think that way but interesting.
    You can't blame her. The media are forever talking about "The Asian Community" as if it were a homogenous lump.

    Why only this morning I asked my wife what the Asian Community thought about Bozo and Rishi Rich getting fined.
    Did she give a view, and was it anywhere in the vicinity of this (unfortunately fake) tweet?


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Er, WHAT????
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Grossman! There's probably a case to be made that a lot of great Russian literature is also war literature.

    I'd also say with the benefit of aged hindsight that Mailer's The Naked and the Dead is his best book.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


    So you are saying that because they are both of Indian descent they have the same political views and priorities?

    I suppose as you think all old white male gammons think the same way it’s perfectly ok to think that way but interesting.
    Heathener is a mass of contradictions.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,455
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
    It’s not quite “The Guernsey Potato Peel Society” but I’ll give you that.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,691

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Good Bye To All That, WW1 poetry, Storm of Steel by Jünger are just a start from WW1. Screenplays? Paths to Glory, Apocalypse now .... From WW2 Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy for starters.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,707

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    War and Peace, Slaughterhouse Five, Waugh's Men at Arms trilogy, The Iliad?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,707
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
    It’s not quite “The Guernsey Potato Peel Society” but I’ll give you that.
    I was really hoping someone would mention that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,754
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
    Nope. I'm with OLB. War's a bore. It's just incredibly overcovered in all art forms.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,707

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Good Bye To All That, WW1 poetry, Storm of Steel by Jünger are just a start from WW1. Screenplays? Paths to Glory, Apocalypse now .... From WW2 Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy for starters.
    If we are allowed film scripts (and I realise that some of these were previously books, often mediocre) I'd add In Which We Serve, The Way Ahead, and, Powell and Press burger's crowning glory, Blimp. Very much.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


    So you are saying that because they are both of Indian descent they have the same political views and priorities?

    I suppose as you think all old white male gammons think the same way it’s perfectly ok to think that way but interesting.
    You can't blame her. The media are forever talking about "The Asian Community" as if it were a homogenous lump.

    Why only this morning I asked my wife what the Asian Community thought about Bozo and Rishi Rich getting fined.
    Did she give a view, and was it anywhere in the vicinity of this (unfortunately fake) tweet?


    I bet a few thousand centrist dads had an involutary erection and finish on seeing that and thinking it genuine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
    Nope. I'm with OLB. War's a bore. It's just incredibly overcovered in all art forms.
    That’s not the argument. It’s whether and why war produces SO MUCH art

    And the answer is YES and BECAUSE IT MAKES FOR GREAT DRAMA AND MOVING STORIES
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,453
    FPT
    tlg86 said:

    Unsurprisingly, life mean's life in this case:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61094059

    The increasing use of extremely long minimum sentences and whole life orders suggests that the justice system is moving to a point where society thinks that there is no possibility of redemption for quite a lot of criminals.

    I think that this is unfortunate. Not the case with this example, but if people plead guilty, and co-operate with the authorities, claim that they want to pursue a different path... shouldn't they be given some hope, a path forward?

    No doubt many will regard me as an 'idiot naive liberal', but for much of the twentieth century, the principles set out above were common ground, they were the basis of criminal justice policy for generations. Even though they were not working very well of late, it is still sad to see them go.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,455
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
    Nope. I'm with OLB. War's a bore. It's just incredibly overcovered in all art forms.
    Sadly Interpretive dance is a bit of a black hole in the “war in culture” canon
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    there’s overcompensating and then there’s, er, this ..
    https://twitter.com/johnpaul_newman/status/1513963215587323909
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,405
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
    Nope. I'm with OLB. War's a bore. It's just incredibly overcovered in all art forms.
    Well it is the most consistent and enduring feature of personkind, across all religions, cultures and civilisations since we dropped from the trees. And before that probably. So it's kind of ingrained within us, so not overcovered. Proportionate to its place in our species. Probably.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    mwadams said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Good Bye To All That, WW1 poetry, Storm of Steel by Jünger are just a start from WW1. Screenplays? Paths to Glory, Apocalypse now .... From WW2 Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy for starters.
    If we are allowed film scripts (and I realise that some of these were previously books, often mediocre) I'd add In Which We Serve, The Way Ahead, and, Powell and Press burger's crowning glory, Blimp. Very much.
    Blimp is a magnificent film, a real work of art.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,707
    edited April 13
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
    That was a Special Bronze Age Operation.
    This is comfortably the best post of the day.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,482

    DavidL said:

    It may be just a little bit premature to say that Boris has survived. What happens if he is issued a second FPN, or a third, or a fourth?

    I really don't think he is out of this yet. He has set a precedent of accepting the Met's determination and moving on. Will he try to do so again? And again? And again?

    Nothing will happen. Tory MPs had their chance and showed themselves frit. Boris is not and has already taken down Sunak, and will take down anyone else who puts their head in the shop window too.

    He will leave when Tory voters make it very clear he is no longer wanted, not before.
    Worse than that (for Conservatives who aren't BJ, anyway.)

    The next step will be "The public don't like Johnson right now, mid-term blues, it'll be fine."

    The final step will be "He might be a duffer, but it's too late to change him."

    So- will there be a window of opportunity between these two? And will the reaction time of the Conservatives be alert enough to seize it?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,326
    edited April 13
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Give Derek Robinson a go.
    I presume @OnlyLivingBoy is trolling us

    I can think of maybe 30,000,000,000 great novels, poems, plays, movies - and other artworks - about war, right here right now, but I shall spare you

    Let's just say: THE ILIAD
    Nope. I'm with OLB. War's a bore. It's just incredibly overcovered in all art forms.
    What's the scoop on your boy Jonesy.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,279
    A powerful and silent demonstration outside the Russian Embassy in Tallinn here this morning.

    J`accuse, Putin. The absolutely monstrous use of rape as a weapon of war on top of all the other vile war crimes, will shame Russia for a generation.

    https://news.err.ee/1608563656/protest-against-women-raped-in-war-held-outside-tallinn-s-russian-embassy
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,638
    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,405

    DavidL said:

    It may be just a little bit premature to say that Boris has survived. What happens if he is issued a second FPN, or a third, or a fourth?

    I really don't think he is out of this yet. He has set a precedent of accepting the Met's determination and moving on. Will he try to do so again? And again? And again?

    Nothing will happen. Tory MPs had their chance and showed themselves frit. Boris is not and has already taken down Sunak, and will take down anyone else who puts their head in the shop window too.

    He will leave when Tory voters make it very clear he is no longer wanted, not before.
    Worse than that (for Conservatives who aren't BJ, anyway.)

    The next step will be "The public don't like Johnson right now, mid-term blues, it'll be fine."

    The final step will be "He might be a duffer, but it's too late to change him."

    So- will there be a window of opportunity between these two? And will the reaction time of the Conservatives be alert enough to seize it?
    I'd say 6 to 8 months out from the last date possible for an Election.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    Enthusiastic if spookily coordinated amateurs or is Olgino still standing by their man?



    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1513908482944253962?s=20&t=Iu1ftynep8p2RhKgw0Kt3A
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Talking of fine art produced by war, allow me to recommend a Netflix series:

    1864

    It's very timely, as it is about a mad European war of invasion, fuelled by mystical nationalism, which turns into a disaster. In this case it is the Danish invasion of Prussia/Germany - in 1864 - which ended in bitter defeat for Denmark and the dismembering of the country, which lost 2/5 of its land and population

    I had no idea about this war so the series is both educational, and fascinating

    It is also seriously good drama, with compelling acting, and high production values. Definitely worth a shot. As it were
  • Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


    So you are saying that because they are both of Indian descent they have the same political views and priorities?

    I suppose as you think all old white male gammons think the same way it’s perfectly ok to think that way but interesting.
    You can't blame her. The media are forever talking about "The Asian Community" as if it were a homogenous lump.

    Why only this morning I asked my wife what the Asian Community thought about Bozo and Rishi Rich getting fined.
    Did she give a view, and was it anywhere in the vicinity of this (unfortunately fake) tweet?


    I bet a few thousand centrist dads had an involutary erection and finish on seeing that and thinking it genuine.
    Aren't all erections essentially involuntary?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    Leon said:

    Talking of fine art produced by war, allow me to recommend a Netflix series:

    1864

    It's very timely, as it is about a mad European war of invasion, fuelled by mystical nationalism, which turns into a disaster. In this case it is the Danish invasion of Prussia/Germany - in 1864 - which ended in bitter defeat for Denmark and the dismembering of the country, which lost 2/5 of its land and population

    I had no idea about this war so the series is both educational, and fascinating

    It is also seriously good drama, with compelling acting, and high production values. Definitely worth a shot. As it were

    Yep, enjoyed it when it was on BBC4. It also has Borgen's alluringly husky voiced Sidse Babett Knudsen, plus at least a couple of others from same.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,620
    I’m thrilled to have appointed @ChrisMasonBBC to be the next Political Editor of @BBCNews, taking over from @bbclaurak next month. Top man for a massive job.
    https://twitter.com/jonathancmunro/status/1514219354996580358
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Good Bye To All That, WW1 poetry, Storm of Steel by Jünger are just a start from WW1. Screenplays? Paths to Glory, Apocalypse now .... From WW2 Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy for starters.
    If we are allowed film scripts (and I realise that some of these were previously books, often mediocre) I'd add In Which We Serve, The Way Ahead, and, Powell and Press burger's crowning glory, Blimp. Very much.
    Blimp is a magnificent film, a real work of art.
    The Vietnam War alone, in terms of movies, has produced


    Platoon

    Hamburger Hill

    Born on the Fourth of July

    Casualties of War

    Rescue Dawn

    We Were Soldiers

    Good Morning, Vietnam

    Full Metal Jacket

    The Deer Hunter

    Apocalypse Now



    At least three or four of those are stand-out movie masterpieces, Apocalypse Now is one of the very greatest movies ever made
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,326

    Enthusiastic if spookily coordinated amateurs or is Olgino still standing by their man?



    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1513908482944253962?s=20&t=Iu1ftynep8p2RhKgw0Kt3A

    I love the "all my years as a British citizen". Who even says that.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,405
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Good Bye To All That, WW1 poetry, Storm of Steel by Jünger are just a start from WW1. Screenplays? Paths to Glory, Apocalypse now .... From WW2 Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy for starters.
    If we are allowed film scripts (and I realise that some of these were previously books, often mediocre) I'd add In Which We Serve, The Way Ahead, and, Powell and Press burger's crowning glory, Blimp. Very much.
    Blimp is a magnificent film, a real work of art.
    The Vietnam War alone, in terms of movies, has produced


    Platoon

    Hamburger Hill

    Born on the Fourth of July

    Casualties of War

    Rescue Dawn

    We Were Soldiers

    Good Morning, Vietnam

    Full Metal Jacket

    The Deer Hunter

    Apocalypse Now



    At least three or four of those are stand-out movie masterpieces, Apocalypse Now is one of the very greatest movies ever made
    Rambo First Blood Part 2?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,884

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    This could be complete and utter balderdash but I'm just wondering if we might be about to see an Indian Alliance.

    A what?

    Rishi Sunak - Priti Patel

    To bring down Boris and set up one or other as the heir ...

    It looks to me anyway as if Boris is in more, not less, trouble now than last night. Things are starting to happen.
    Take a peak at the mailonline leader.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10714277/Furious-Rishi-Sunak-blames-Boris-Carrie-Partygate-fine.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-more-than-half-of-voters-think-that-boris-johnson-should-resign-after-fine-12589002


    So you are saying that because they are both of Indian descent they have the same political views and priorities?

    I suppose as you think all old white male gammons think the same way it’s perfectly ok to think that way but interesting.
    You can't blame her. The media are forever talking about "The Asian Community" as if it were a homogenous lump.

    Why only this morning I asked my wife what the Asian Community thought about Bozo and Rishi Rich getting fined.
    Even worse than 'The Asian Community' is the outbreak of holding something called 'The International Community' accountable for something or other. This has absolutely no meaning at all as it includes all humanity in every configuration including of course the person using the term, and all their friends and every institution of which they are part.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    TOPPING said:

    Enthusiastic if spookily coordinated amateurs or is Olgino still standing by their man?



    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1513908482944253962?s=20&t=Iu1ftynep8p2RhKgw0Kt3A

    I love the "all my years as a British citizen". Who even says that.
    True British gammonry would have used British subject.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    edited April 13
    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,638
    It's probably just as well that I am not French. From the BBC:

    "US President Joe Biden has accused Russian forces of committing acts of "genocide" in Ukraine.

    He said Russian President Vladimir Putin was trying to "wipe out the idea" of a Ukrainian identity.

    Mr Biden has previously stopped short of references to genocide, instead accusing Moscow of "war crimes".

    French President Emmanuel Macron later told French TV he was reluctant to use the term and warned against an "escalation of rhetoric".

    Speaking to the public broadcaster France 2, the French President said he would be "careful with such terms today because these two peoples are brothers."

    "I want to continue to try, as much as I can, to stop this war and rebuild peace. I am not sure that an escalation of rhetoric serves that cause," he added."

    I mean, how on earth do you vote for this twat, even to stop Le Pen? Escalation of rhetoric? Jeez. Words fail me.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    That interest rate rise probably brings in a bit more money to government's coffers as the high earners have to keep paying their loan for a bit longer.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    Scott_xP said:

    I’m thrilled to have appointed @ChrisMasonBBC to be the next Political Editor of @BBCNews, taking over from @bbclaurak next month. Top man for a massive job.
    https://twitter.com/jonathancmunro/status/1514219354996580358

    Cue various accusations given it was women, including a 'BAME' one, who were passed over for the role.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,335
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Good Bye To All That, WW1 poetry, Storm of Steel by Jünger are just a start from WW1. Screenplays? Paths to Glory, Apocalypse now .... From WW2 Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy for starters.
    If we are allowed film scripts (and I realise that some of these were previously books, often mediocre) I'd add In Which We Serve, The Way Ahead, and, Powell and Press burger's crowning glory, Blimp. Very much.
    Blimp is a magnificent film, a real work of art.
    The Vietnam War alone, in terms of movies, has produced


    Platoon

    Hamburger Hill

    Born on the Fourth of July

    Casualties of War

    Rescue Dawn

    We Were Soldiers

    Good Morning, Vietnam

    Full Metal Jacket

    The Deer Hunter

    Apocalypse Now



    At least three or four of those are stand-out movie masterpieces, Apocalypse Now is one of the very greatest movies ever made
    A fair old chunk of Forrest Gump
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,148
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Good Bye To All That, WW1 poetry, Storm of Steel by Jünger are just a start from WW1. Screenplays? Paths to Glory, Apocalypse now .... From WW2 Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy for starters.
    If we are allowed film scripts (and I realise that some of these were previously books, often mediocre) I'd add In Which We Serve, The Way Ahead, and, Powell and Press burger's crowning glory, Blimp. Very much.
    Blimp is a magnificent film, a real work of art.
    The Vietnam War alone, in terms of movies, has produced


    Platoon

    Hamburger Hill

    Born on the Fourth of July

    Casualties of War

    Rescue Dawn

    We Were Soldiers

    Good Morning, Vietnam

    Full Metal Jacket

    The Deer Hunter

    Apocalypse Now



    At least three or four of those are stand-out movie masterpieces, Apocalypse Now is one of the very greatest movies ever made
    War produces a ton of great art, as one would expect.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,383
    ORYX are now up to 497 Russian Tanks,

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    What would be the appropriate way to mark the passing of 500 Tanks?

    with the news of the Use of chemical weapons, calibration does not feel appropriate,
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    edited April 13

    Leon said:

    Talking of fine art produced by war, allow me to recommend a Netflix series:

    1864

    It's very timely, as it is about a mad European war of invasion, fuelled by mystical nationalism, which turns into a disaster. In this case it is the Danish invasion of Prussia/Germany - in 1864 - which ended in bitter defeat for Denmark and the dismembering of the country, which lost 2/5 of its land and population

    I had no idea about this war so the series is both educational, and fascinating

    It is also seriously good drama, with compelling acting, and high production values. Definitely worth a shot. As it were

    Yep, enjoyed it when it was on BBC4. It also has Borgen's alluringly husky voiced Sidse Babett Knudsen, plus at least a couple of others from same.
    Yes, she has definite DILF vibes
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    edited April 13
    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    That interest rate rise probably brings in a bit more money to government's coffers as the high earners have to keep paying their loan for a bit longer.
    It a bit like saying well if new super NI goes up in the future (which I am sure it will, now that can of worms has been opened), or if we do get the 1% IC cut. Its all a bit swings and roundabouts.

    Edit :- In fact thinking a bit more, it might reduce it....if you a high earner have say a £1-2k left on your student loan, you probably then just pay it off now, rather than eat the 12%.
  • JamesgravesJamesgraves Posts: 24
    Johnson will be fine as long as Labour is not 11% ahead at the local elections like in 1990 as another Richard said about Kinnock yesterday which led to the downfall of Thatcher
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,596

    Enthusiastic if spookily coordinated amateurs or is Olgino still standing by their man?



    https://twitter.com/sianushka/status/1513908482944253962?s=20&t=Iu1ftynep8p2RhKgw0Kt3A

    Who the fuck is orchestrating these bots? The tories or the GRU?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,747
    BigRich said:

    ORYX are now up to 497 Russian Tanks,

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    What would be the appropriate way to mark the passing of 500 Tanks?

    with the news of the Use of chemical weapons, calibration does not feel appropriate,

    498 now:
    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    In some ways it feels a little bad to be 'celebrating' the numbers going up, given that many of these will have involved the violent deaths of three or four people. But given what they're doing in Ukraine, I still take a little perverse joy in the numbers increasing.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,305

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    This scandal is simultaneously outrageous and boring. It’s OMG and Yawn

    I can see Boris surviving, quite easily, out of voter apathy

    Is anyone out there really boiling with anger? I doubt it. It’s like a car crash filmed in such ultra-slow-motion you lose interest

    As I say downthread, it's more a "fuck that, I'm not getting off my arse for that clown" come election time, rather than "MAKE WAY, I'M VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THE LAST BASTION OF RIGHTOUSNESS, TO SMITE THESE WRONGDOERS".
    The Tories will be hoping that, come the 2024 election, partygate will be a dim and boring memory. This might well work. Unfortunately for them, by 2024 there’s a high chance the economy will be in the toilet, so they will get binned for THAT, instead
    The Tories can bring up the pandemic without bringing up partygate.
    No one will ‘bring up the pandemic’. It is so ghastly and bleak we will erase it from the collective memory ASAFP

    What utter, complete, rubbish.

    You are becoming the Dennis Healey of pb.com: whatever you say, we can be sure that the diametric opposite is true.
    Except, history shows I am right

    Read this brilliant piece by the great SeanT, who was once a congregant of this very same PB parish: "Why we remember wars but forget plagues"

    He's correct, and the absence of plague literature proves it

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
    1. ...and you wonder why you are regularly doxxed?

    2. There's plenty of plague literature, some of it quite good: https://lincolnlibraries.org/bookguide/booklists/pandemic-and-plague-literature/
    Does war produce good literature? I can think of Catch 22, All Quiet on the Western Front and the screenplay for Starship Troopers and after that I'm coming up short.
    Good Bye To All That, WW1 poetry, Storm of Steel by Jünger are just a start from WW1. Screenplays? Paths to Glory, Apocalypse now .... From WW2 Waugh's Sword of Honour trilogy for starters.
    If we are allowed film scripts (and I realise that some of these were previously books, often mediocre) I'd add In Which We Serve, The Way Ahead, and, Powell and Press burger's crowning glory, Blimp. Very much.
    Blimp is a magnificent film, a real work of art.
    The Vietnam War alone, in terms of movies, has produced


    Platoon

    Hamburger Hill

    Born on the Fourth of July

    Casualties of War

    Rescue Dawn

    We Were Soldiers

    Good Morning, Vietnam

    Full Metal Jacket

    The Deer Hunter

    Apocalypse Now



    At least three or four of those are stand-out movie masterpieces, Apocalypse Now is one of the very greatest movies ever made
    Rambo First Blood Part 2?
    The Quiet American
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,335
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of fine art produced by war, allow me to recommend a Netflix series:

    1864

    It's very timely, as it is about a mad European war of invasion, fuelled by mystical nationalism, which turns into a disaster. In this case it is the Danish invasion of Prussia/Germany - in 1864 - which ended in bitter defeat for Denmark and the dismembering of the country, which lost 2/5 of its land and population

    I had no idea about this war so the series is both educational, and fascinating

    It is also seriously good drama, with compelling acting, and high production values. Definitely worth a shot. As it were

    Yep, enjoyed it when it was on BBC4. It also has Borgen's alluringly husky voiced Sidse Babett Knudsen, plus at least a couple of others from same.
    Yes, she has definite DILF vibes
    She’s a dad?!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,638

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    Depends what they earn and how much they repay. My daughter has been paying back her maintenance loans for about 5 years now and the capital debt is still increasing because she is relatively low paid. The risk here is that the capital for many, many more people will increase beyond the point they can hope to repay with the consequence that they pay a higher tax rate for their entire working lives for 3 or 4 years of fun at the start. Its a very bad deal.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Great Vietnam books:



    A Bright Shining Lie

    Chickenhawk

    If I Die in a Combat Zone

    Requiem

    Meditations in Green

    A Rumor of War

    The Sorrow of War

    We Were Soldiers

    Fields of Fire

    The Quiet American

    Dispatches



    Again, several solid world class masterpieces in there. Dispatches is one of the best books EVAH
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of fine art produced by war, allow me to recommend a Netflix series:

    1864

    It's very timely, as it is about a mad European war of invasion, fuelled by mystical nationalism, which turns into a disaster. In this case it is the Danish invasion of Prussia/Germany - in 1864 - which ended in bitter defeat for Denmark and the dismembering of the country, which lost 2/5 of its land and population

    I had no idea about this war so the series is both educational, and fascinating

    It is also seriously good drama, with compelling acting, and high production values. Definitely worth a shot. As it were

    Yep, enjoyed it when it was on BBC4. It also has Borgen's alluringly husky voiced Sidse Babett Knudsen, plus at least a couple of others from same.
    Yes, she has definite DILF vibes
    She’s a dad?!
    Dane!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    That interest rate rise probably brings in a bit more money to government's coffers as the high earners have to keep paying their loan for a bit longer.
    It a bit like saying well if new super NI goes up in the future (which I am sure it will, now that can of worms has been opened), or if we do get the 1% IC cut. Its all a bit swings and roundabouts.

    Edit :- In fact thinking a bit more, it might reduce it....if you a high earner have say a £1-2k left on your student loan, you probably then just pay it off now, rather than eat the 12%.
    Yes, good point about paying it off.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    edited April 13
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    Depends what they earn and how much they repay. My daughter has been paying back her maintenance loans for about 5 years now and the capital debt is still increasing because she is relatively low paid. The risk here is that the capital for many, many more people will increase beyond the point they can hope to repay with the consequence that they pay a higher tax rate for their entire working lives for 3 or 4 years of fun at the start. Its a very bad deal.
    The statistics show that this is already the case. For the umpteenth time, for basically everybody but those that managed to get a very highly paid job quite quickly out of university, a student loan is just a graduate tax. The rates are irrelevant as you are never paying off the principle in the 30 year time frame, regardless of if the rate is 7% or 12%.

    I need to check, but also am I right in thinking that this 12% is only on the "new style" student loans. They changed the system in 2012.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,596
    BigRich said:

    ORYX are now up to 497 Russian Tanks,

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    What would be the appropriate way to mark the passing of 500 Tanks?

    Stab the first Russian you can find.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,884
    darkage said:

    FPT

    tlg86 said:

    Unsurprisingly, life mean's life in this case:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61094059

    The increasing use of extremely long minimum sentences and whole life orders suggests that the justice system is moving to a point where society thinks that there is no possibility of redemption for quite a lot of criminals.

    I think that this is unfortunate. Not the case with this example, but if people plead guilty, and co-operate with the authorities, claim that they want to pursue a different path... shouldn't they be given some hope, a path forward?

    No doubt many will regard me as an 'idiot naive liberal', but for much of the twentieth century, the principles set out above were common ground, they were the basis of criminal justice policy for generations. Even though they were not working very well of late, it is still sad to see them go.

    There are about 50 people serving whole life orders, fewer than one in a million of the population. Their records are easily accessible. The thought that one in a million or so people are that bad is not pleasant but not unrealistic. Furthermore their redemption remains utterly possible and in their own hands. When you have committed unspeakable crimes - and each one has - a big chuck of redemption is coming to terms with why a civilised community has concluded that you should be punished in a way which is tough but not cruel by international standards for the rest of your life, and accepting its causes and your accountability for it.

  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 3,239
    edited April 13

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    For a sizeable proportion, it’s a moot point anyway as they’ll never pay them off until they are automatically written off.

    The current student loan regime is pretty much a graduate tax in all but name really. The sheer size of the borrowing and the unfavourable interest rate make it incredibly difficult to clear the balance. As much as the top up fee system before it was a blow to students in the late noughties, it was much more realistic that repayment would eventually be made and the interest rate was much less punishing being linked as it is to BOE base or inflation, whichever is lower.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,138

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    That interest rate rise probably brings in a bit more money to government's coffers as the high earners have to keep paying their loan for a bit longer.
    It a bit like saying well if new super NI goes up in the future (which I am sure it will, now that can of worms has been opened), or if we do get the 1% IC cut. Its all a bit swings and roundabouts.

    Edit :- In fact thinking a bit more, it might reduce it....if you a high earner have say a £1-2k left on your student loan, you probably then just pay it off now, rather than eat the 12%.
    Since the loan increases in real terms each year you're better off paying it off if you'll pay it off in the future "naturally". But that's unknownable early in your career.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    Will he use the dontcha know there's a war on, I've work to do excuse?


  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,383
    darkage said:

    FPT

    tlg86 said:

    Unsurprisingly, life mean's life in this case:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61094059

    The increasing use of extremely long minimum sentences and whole life orders suggests that the justice system is moving to a point where society thinks that there is no possibility of redemption for quite a lot of criminals.

    I think that this is unfortunate. Not the case with this example, but if people plead guilty, and co-operate with the authorities, claim that they want to pursue a different path... shouldn't they be given some hope, a path forward?

    No doubt many will regard me as an 'idiot naive liberal', but for much of the twentieth century, the principles set out above were common ground, they were the basis of criminal justice policy for generations. Even though they were not working very well of late, it is still sad to see them go.

    I very much agree with you, but maybe I'm out of the loop, is there a general increases in the length of prison sentences, outside a few horrific cases that get a lot of attention in the news?
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    The Twilight Zone had some good war episodes as well.

    Judgement Night, Deaths Head Revisited and the Purple Testament being exceptional.

    Das Boot is excellent and the film Stalingrad, from 1993, is excellent
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,326
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of fine art produced by war, allow me to recommend a Netflix series:

    1864

    It's very timely, as it is about a mad European war of invasion, fuelled by mystical nationalism, which turns into a disaster. In this case it is the Danish invasion of Prussia/Germany - in 1864 - which ended in bitter defeat for Denmark and the dismembering of the country, which lost 2/5 of its land and population

    I had no idea about this war so the series is both educational, and fascinating

    It is also seriously good drama, with compelling acting, and high production values. Definitely worth a shot. As it were

    Yep, enjoyed it when it was on BBC4. It also has Borgen's alluringly husky voiced Sidse Babett Knudsen, plus at least a couple of others from same.
    Yes, she has definite DILF vibes
    She’s a dad?!
    Dane!
    Modern scandi drama it would be Detective.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    edited April 13
    darkage said:

    FPT

    tlg86 said:

    Unsurprisingly, life mean's life in this case:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61094059

    The increasing use of extremely long minimum sentences and whole life orders suggests that the justice system is moving to a point where society thinks that there is no possibility of redemption for quite a lot of criminals.

    I think that this is unfortunate. Not the case with this example, but if people plead guilty, and co-operate with the authorities, claim that they want to pursue a different path... shouldn't they be given some hope, a path forward?

    No doubt many will regard me as an 'idiot naive liberal', but for much of the twentieth century, the principles set out above were common ground, they were the basis of criminal justice policy for generations. Even though they were not working very well of late, it is still sad to see them go.
    As you allude to, it’s more a case of several of the most serious possible crimes occurring in a year or two.

    A whole-life term is incredibly rare for a single murder, possibly less than one per year on average. The two most recent examples are this one, of a man killing an MP at their surgery, and the police officer who killed a random woman abducted off the street by use of his warrant card.

    The vast majority of murders are still either of domestic origin or gang-related. Most of them barely make the news.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,638

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    Depends what they earn and how much they repay. My daughter has been paying back her maintenance loans for about 5 years now and the capital debt is still increasing because she is relatively low paid. The risk here is that the capital for many, many more people will increase beyond the point they can hope to repay with the consequence that they pay a higher tax rate for their entire working lives for 3 or 4 years of fun at the start. Its a very bad deal.
    The statistics show that this is already the case. For the umpteenth time, for basically everybody but those that managed to get a very highly paid job quite quickly out of university, a student loan is just a graduate tax.

    I need to check, but also am I right in thinking that this 12% is only on the "new style" student loans. They changed the system in 2012.
    I think that is right and that it is also going to be capped in the future but anyone who expects to make reasonable money really should borrow from a bank, not The Student Loan company. Much, much better rates.

    The practical effect of this will be to further divide society. Those whose families can afford to pay their fees for them will be better off for the vast bulk of their working lives. Those from more ordinary backgrounds will not.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,383
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    That interest rate rise probably brings in a bit more money to government's coffers as the high earners have to keep paying their loan for a bit longer.
    It a bit like saying well if new super NI goes up in the future (which I am sure it will, now that can of worms has been opened), or if we do get the 1% IC cut. Its all a bit swings and roundabouts.

    Edit :- In fact thinking a bit more, it might reduce it....if you a high earner have say a £1-2k left on your student loan, you probably then just pay it off now, rather than eat the 12%.
    Since the loan increases in real terms each year you're better off paying it off if you'll pay it off in the future "naturally". But that's unknownable early in your career.
    Yes, which is one reason why having an end date is IMO wrong, and counter productive.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    edited April 13

    Will he use the dontcha know there's a war on, I've work to do excuse?


    Are these the same parties Ed Balls, Prince Harry or Pier Morgan attended?

    I do find it really bizarre that anybody think you what total laugh, lets go to a fancy dress party as a Nazi. You have 1000s of options to choose from, no I want to go as Nazi. Same as black face, anybody going to a party in the past 20-30 years, it just doesn't enter your head.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,305
    DavidL said:

    It's probably just as well that I am not French. From the BBC:

    "US President Joe Biden has accused Russian forces of committing acts of "genocide" in Ukraine.

    He said Russian President Vladimir Putin was trying to "wipe out the idea" of a Ukrainian identity.

    Mr Biden has previously stopped short of references to genocide, instead accusing Moscow of "war crimes".

    French President Emmanuel Macron later told French TV he was reluctant to use the term and warned against an "escalation of rhetoric".

    Speaking to the public broadcaster France 2, the French President said he would be "careful with such terms today because these two peoples are brothers."

    "I want to continue to try, as much as I can, to stop this war and rebuild peace. I am not sure that an escalation of rhetoric serves that cause," he added."

    I mean, how on earth do you vote for this twat, even to stop Le Pen? Escalation of rhetoric? Jeez. Words fail me.

    If there were a real hope of a negotiated peace, then I'd have some sympathy with Macron's position. Partly because a negotiator has to find common ground, not drive wedges, and partly because I really hate the devaluation of vital legal terms (like genocide and WMD) by many for political point-scoring and manipulation of the public's emotions.

    But, and it is a huge BUT, even if the individual negotiators are acting in good faith, it is clear Putin never has been. Putin's own words show that the negotiations are dead (and will be until one side is exhausted or beaten on the battlefield).

    And the Russians' own words, including those of Putin himself, are making a stronger case that genocide is indeed the correct term, more even than the hideous acts being uncovered on the ground (which themselves are prima facie proof of war crimes and crimes against humanity, but not, yet IMO, of genocide. Mariupol, once we get there, or Kherson, are both likely to provide direct proof of genocidal acts to match Russia's genocidal policies and doctrines).

    So, yes, Macron is a dangerous egotistical twat. But even so, if I were French, I'd still have to vote for him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202
    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Usurious.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    Taz said:

    The Twilight Zone had some good war episodes as well.

    Judgement Night, Deaths Head Revisited and the Purple Testament being exceptional.

    Das Boot is excellent and the film Stalingrad, from 1993, is excellent

    It has Putinist vibes but I enjoyed the 2013 Stalingrad, kind of a martial arts movie meets spaghetti western at the Volga. Not really a fan of Enemy at the Gates, partly cos it has Jude Law in it and its cgi Stukas were a bit crap.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,375

    Can't you potentially get £10k fine if you have been found to consistently been breaking the COVID restrictions? Boris is going need another sugar daddy to pay for that....

    Also, I'm told that the conspiracy laws have a 10-year maximum sentence even if the offence is relatively minor. If we're travelling by train in an empty carriage, I ask you if you mind if I smoke and you say no, fine, go ahead, I believe we are both liable to a decade in jug. So if I say "Shall we have a party even though it's lockdown time" and you say yes...?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,062
    edited April 13
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    Depends what they earn and how much they repay. My daughter has been paying back her maintenance loans for about 5 years now and the capital debt is still increasing because she is relatively low paid. The risk here is that the capital for many, many more people will increase beyond the point they can hope to repay with the consequence that they pay a higher tax rate for their entire working lives for 3 or 4 years of fun at the start. Its a very bad deal.
    The statistics show that this is already the case. For the umpteenth time, for basically everybody but those that managed to get a very highly paid job quite quickly out of university, a student loan is just a graduate tax.

    I need to check, but also am I right in thinking that this 12% is only on the "new style" student loans. They changed the system in 2012.
    I think that is right and that it is also going to be capped in the future but anyone who expects to make reasonable money really should borrow from a bank, not The Student Loan company. Much, much better rates.

    The practical effect of this will be to further divide society. Those whose families can afford to pay their fees for them will be better off for the vast bulk of their working lives. Those from more ordinary backgrounds will not.
    You are wrong here. The maths are that paying the fees upfront / paying them off quickly isn't really a sensible idea. Martin Lewis bangs on about it endlessly. If you have £50k burning a hole in your pocket, you are going to be better off taking that money and buying a house. Both in terms of getting on the housing ladder, reduced mortgage and by historic standards increase in property price over the course of that 30 years.

    Its literally a graduate tax, and the high earners are going to end up forking out a lot more than those on £30-40k a year. Remember its 9% on what you earn after £27-28k. So somebody on £30k a year really isn't paying much. Those on £60-70k, paying a lot, make a lot larger contributions over their life time.

    I say the above as somebody who did this (from money I earned myself). I wrote the Student Loan people a massive cheque and paid it all off when I was 22-23. In hindsight it was a stupid thing to do, I could have bought a house paying down a big portion of it with the deposit, rather than renting for a number of years and ultimately paying a load more for a house.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    Taz said:

    The Twilight Zone had some good war episodes as well.

    Judgement Night, Deaths Head Revisited and the Purple Testament being exceptional.

    Das Boot is excellent and the film Stalingrad, from 1993, is excellent

    It has Putinist vibes but I enjoyed the 2013 Stalingrad, kind of a martial arts movie meets spaghetti western at the Volga. Not really a fan of Enemy at the Gates, partly cos it has Jude Law in it and its cgi Stukas were a bit crap.
    Sam Mendes' 1917 is magnificent
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolutely shocking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61088025

    Interest rates on student loans to hit 12% in England. Outrageous.

    Covered on previous thread.....outrageous for the country as we ultimately will all pick up the tab when the loan isn't repaid in full, basically irrelevant on the level of the individual student.
    Depends what they earn and how much they repay. My daughter has been paying back her maintenance loans for about 5 years now and the capital debt is still increasing because she is relatively low paid. The risk here is that the capital for many, many more people will increase beyond the point they can hope to repay with the consequence that they pay a higher tax rate for their entire working lives for 3 or 4 years of fun at the start. Its a very bad deal.
    The statistics show that this is already the case. For the umpteenth time, for basically everybody but those that managed to get a very highly paid job quite quickly out of university, a student loan is just a graduate tax.

    I need to check, but also am I right in thinking that this 12% is only on the "new style" student loans. They changed the system in 2012.
    I think that is right and that it is also going to be capped in the future but anyone who expects to make reasonable money really should borrow from a bank, not The Student Loan company. Much, much better rates.

    The practical effect of this will be to further divide society. Those whose families can afford to pay their fees for them will be better off for the vast bulk of their working lives. Those from more ordinary backgrounds will not.
    You are wrong here. The maths are that paying the fees upfront / paying them off quickly isn't really a sensible idea. Martin Lewis bangs on about it endlessly. If you have £50k burning a hole in your pocket, you are going to be better off taking that money and buying a house. Both in terms of getting on the housing ladder, reduced mortgage and by historic standards increase in property price over the course of that 30 years.
    At least, that has been the case for the last 30 years. Might not be true for the next 30.
This discussion has been closed.