Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
An obligation is only an obligation insofar as it is enforceable. SFAICS no-one has the power the enforce this one. So, in the modern world, an obligation it is not. The only power with leverage is that possessed by Tory MPs to force a VONC among the Tory MPs, and the power of the opposition to force a VONC in the House of Commons.
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, so that is a resigning offence.
Lying to Parliament has not been proven. It doesn't need to be though, lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
1. "I did not attend a party" 2. Fined for attending a party 3. Q.E.D.
Proven.
2. Fined for attending a party breaking the law.
Fines have nothing to do with parties, it has to do with the law. Lawbreaking does not require parties.
It might not - things like this can take a few days to a week to percolate through to “everyone” knowing it.
I would expect a surprisingly small drop today, and a serious widening of the Labour lead in a few days. Think proper polls, fieldwork more than 3 days from now.
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, so that is a resigning offence.
Lying to Parliament has not been proven. It doesn't need to be though, lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
Excellent principle, they certainly shouldn't, but the empirical evidence is that they can... at least until the next election.
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
1. Its Covid. You aren't allowed to gather socially. Hence 50 and counting fines issues 2. Its clearly not work. I have eaten cake at work before. I have had birthday gatherings at work before. You aren't working at that point 3. They sang "Happy Birthday" over the cake. Ask any child what a birthday party looks like and its a load of your friends in a room singing Happy Birthday over the cake.
OK, so it wasn't Bunga Bunga like the one where Big Dog Liar waves his can of vaguely beer at the camera. But it clearly was not a work event. Sunak should have known better.
Sorry but that's utter bollocks.
If you gather for work purposes then having a slice of cake and singing happy birthday during your work meeting is not a party and was not against the law either. People who needed to be gathered together for required work purposes were entitled to eat and talk.
Putin dragged Lukashenko to a cosmodrome in far eastern Russia for this. He claims he has secret information about how mysterious “Englishmen” staged a “provocation” in Bucha. Not clear if he means the whole thing is fake or if they murdered hundreds and pretended Russia did it
'Provocation' might refer to this: Russia is planning to commit a terrorist act by blowing down residential buildings on its own territory. It is also planning to commit a missile-aircraft attack on Belgorod (Russia) or one of the cities in the occupied Crimea in order to blame Ukraine — Ukrainian Intelligence https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1513857674580004870
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
1. Its Covid. You aren't allowed to gather socially. Hence 50 and counting fines issues 2. Its clearly not work. I have eaten cake at work before. I have had birthday gatherings at work before. You aren't working at that point 3. They sang "Happy Birthday" over the cake. Ask any child what a birthday party looks like and its a load of your friends in a room singing Happy Birthday over the cake.
OK, so it wasn't Bunga Bunga like the one where Big Dog Liar waves his can of vaguely beer at the camera. But it clearly was not a work event. Sunak should have known better.
Sorry but that's utter bollocks.
If you gather for work purposes then having a slice of cake and singing happy birthday during your work meeting is not a party and was not against the law either. People who needed to be gathered together for required work purposes were entitled to eat and talk.
So the Old Bill are talking through their hats. BigDog and Rishi Rich need top fight this injustice through the courts!
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Ignorance is no defence!
"I was totally unaware I was supposed to drive on the left hand side of the road therefore I should not be prosecuted with a charge of death by dangerous driving despite sending a dozen cyclists to meet their maker".
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
1. Its Covid. You aren't allowed to gather socially. Hence 50 and counting fines issues 2. Its clearly not work. I have eaten cake at work before. I have had birthday gatherings at work before. You aren't working at that point 3. They sang "Happy Birthday" over the cake. Ask any child what a birthday party looks like and its a load of your friends in a room singing Happy Birthday over the cake.
OK, so it wasn't Bunga Bunga like the one where Big Dog Liar waves his can of vaguely beer at the camera. But it clearly was not a work event. Sunak should have known better.
Sorry but that's utter bollocks.
If you gather for work purposes then having a slice of cake and singing happy birthday during your work meeting is not a party and was not against the law either. People who needed to be gathered together for required work purposes were entitled to eat and talk.
The Metropolitan Police clearly disagree.
The Metropolitan Police are investing lawbreaking, not parties.
So they agree with me, it is the law that is at stake here, not parties.
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
1. Its Covid. You aren't allowed to gather socially. Hence 50 and counting fines issues 2. Its clearly not work. I have eaten cake at work before. I have had birthday gatherings at work before. You aren't working at that point 3. They sang "Happy Birthday" over the cake. Ask any child what a birthday party looks like and its a load of your friends in a room singing Happy Birthday over the cake.
OK, so it wasn't Bunga Bunga like the one where Big Dog Liar waves his can of vaguely beer at the camera. But it clearly was not a work event. Sunak should have known better.
Sorry but that's utter bollocks.
If you gather for work purposes then having a slice of cake and singing happy birthday during your work meeting is not a party and was not against the law either. People who needed to be gathered together for required work purposes were entitled to eat and talk.
Okay. So your boyz can simply loudly and proudly announce they're not paying the fixed penalty notices, and they'll take their chances in court wielding the sword of justice and trusty shield of British fair play. And bloody good luck to them.
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, so that is a resigning offence.
Lying to Parliament has not been proven. It doesn't need to be though, lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
Should not, I agree- morally, they should resign for that; especially in this case. But this government and most of the parliamentary party has proven that it doesn't give a fig for that. They all knew they had done wrong and hoped to get away with it.
But there is a specific requirement in the ministerial code to resign if you have been found to have been lying to parliament. This is as clear a case of that as you will ever see.
While it is, I am sure we are about to discover that it isn't. Words are a wonderful thing, as is the effluxion of time.
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Russia is planning terrorist attacks on its own territory and in the occupied Crimea in order to blame Ukraine for them 'to boost anti-Ukrainian hysteria', head of Ukraine's defence intelligence Budanov said today. Belgorod and cities in Crimea can be bombed from the air, he said
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
1. Its Covid. You aren't allowed to gather socially. Hence 50 and counting fines issues 2. Its clearly not work. I have eaten cake at work before. I have had birthday gatherings at work before. You aren't working at that point 3. They sang "Happy Birthday" over the cake. Ask any child what a birthday party looks like and its a load of your friends in a room singing Happy Birthday over the cake.
OK, so it wasn't Bunga Bunga like the one where Big Dog Liar waves his can of vaguely beer at the camera. But it clearly was not a work event. Sunak should have known better.
Sorry but that's utter bollocks.
If you gather for work purposes then having a slice of cake and singing happy birthday during your work meeting is not a party and was not against the law either. People who needed to be gathered together for required work purposes were entitled to eat and talk.
Okay. So your boyz can simply loudly and proudly announce they're not paying the fixed penalty notices, and they'll take their chances in court wielding the sword of justice and trusty shield of British fair play. And bloody good luck to them.
How many times do I need to say it, I've said the law has been broken.
The law was not to do with "parties" though. The law can be broken, without parties having happened or attended, because the law was so draconian - which I was objecting to at the time this was happening.
He should go because of the law. Parties are neither here, nor there, nor proven, nor is lying. Lawbreaking is.
Someone posted on here this morning that they were so old they remember Sue Grey being a thing.
They've dragged her back now - as cover. yet again:
Harry Cole @MrHarryCole · 14m Suspect this will be the line as here come the loyalists. Is Sue Gray is the new rubicon for backbenchers?
Darren Henry MP #ServingBroxtowe @DarrenG_Henry · 19m It is right that those who break rules are punished. Due to the Prime Minister’s and the Chancellor’s public facing roles I expect a public apology.
As I previously stated, I am not going to make my final statement until the full Sue Gray Report is released.
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
An obligation is only an obligation insofar as it is enforceable. SFAICS no-one has the power the enforce this one. So, in the modern world, an obligation it is not. The only power with leverage is that possessed by Tory MPs to force a VONC among the Tory MPs, and the power of the opposition to force a VONC in the House of Commons.
Good luck with both of those.
PS Truss will not be the next leader.
The only wildcard is probably Wallace (and maybe Hunt). If Boris goes there will be pressure for a non-extended leadership contest and the only person who is ready to step into the breach as a holder of a GOOS is, I am afraid to say, Liz Truss.
Who else is there? Patel isn’t going to get it. Rishi is done. Tugenhadt isn’t even a minister. Mordaunt might be a good leader in opposition but has limited cabinet experience. Anyone like Mogg or Dorries is too bonkers even for the Tory party.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
It might not - things like this can take a few days to a week to percolate through to “everyone” knowing it.
I would expect a surprisingly small drop today, and a serious widening of the Labour lead in a few days. Think proper polls, fieldwork more than 3 days from now.
YouGov just rushed out some questions on it too, after 10 very boring unrelated questions on employment law - obviously a PS to a commissioned poll.
Dammit @Leon if your Casa advises on Tripadvisor that it’s open 12 to 10pm it should be bloody well open now..
Is this the castle you used to swim to?
Looks like it
Shame you have iffy weather. Collioure is delightful in the sun
It was a shame, though my burnt arms and neck would say otherwise. It was still a good place to visit but slightly too touristy for my liking; the streets were packed even on such a gloomy day. I’ve now nearly reached Argelès-Sur-Mer where I’m staying tonight, and my new favourite beer, Cap D’Ona, is brewed. I picked up a couple of bottles from a shop in Collioure and I’m drinking their “Ambrée Triple Bio” which is 7.5% ABV. I’m starting to feel a bit tipsy.. hope the hotel will let me check in!
Ah, it wasn't too touristy when I was there. But this was about 100 years ago
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, so that is a resigning offence.
Lying to Parliament has not been proven. It doesn't need to be though, lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
Should not, I agree- morally, they should resign for that; especially in this case. But this government and most of the parliamentary party has proven that it doesn't give a fig for that. They all knew they had done wrong and hoped to get away with it.
But there is a specific requirement in the ministerial code to resign if you have been found to have been lying to parliament. This is as clear a case of that as you will ever see.
While it is, I am sure we are about to discover that it isn't. Words are a wonderful thing, as is the effluxion of time.
And other posters are quite right that there is no means of enforcing this requirement, so it is back to VONC or nothing (as The Moral Dimension ((c) YPM) doesn't come into it.)
Roger Gale, one of Boris's principal critics, has said that now is not the moment as we deal with Ukraine and the refugee crisis bit I do not think the PM will lead us into the next election
It might not - things like this can take a few days to a week to percolate through to “everyone” knowing it.
I would expect a surprisingly small drop today, and a serious widening of the Labour lead in a few days. Think proper polls, fieldwork more than 3 days from now.
Very very good point.
It can be like a tsunami: not one instantaneous crashing wave but a huge continuous surge: a wall that increases in force.
That is what happened with Black Wednesday. There was one hit but then a continuous surge as the Labour leads grew over several weeks.
It might not - things like this can take a few days to a week to percolate through to “everyone” knowing it.
I would expect a surprisingly small drop today, and a serious widening of the Labour lead in a few days. Think proper polls, fieldwork more than 3 days from now.
YouGov just rushed out some questions on it too, after 10 very boring unrelated questions on employment law - obviously a PS to a commissioned poll.
How many times have we seen this pattern?
1) something happens 2) next poll doesn’t show a big move 3) it’s declared a non-event 4) the poll averages move a few days later
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
Then There’s still the poison of inaction to suffer though, if not sucking it out.
May be the Galeasts think it feeds into May Election bad performance and they put the dog down then with “voters clearly passed their judgement on law breaking Boris. Leaving us no choice.”
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
Your decision is based on opinion polls? That's not the most ethical stance to take
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
I have just emailed my MP under the header 'Good Parenting'. I have asked her what I should have told my children when they were growing up. Should I have said "It's OK to lie - as long as you think you can get away with it."
Roger Gale, one of Boris's principal critics, has said that now is not the moment as we deal with Ukraine and the refugee crisis bit I do not think the PM will lead us into the next election
Ukraine will take decades to sort out. This isnt an 'over by summer' thing.
NEW: Douglas Ross, leader of the Scottish Tories who called on Boris Johnson to resign in February, says "it wouldn't be right to remove the prime minister at this time"
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister. This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate. If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
Then There’s still the poison of inaction to suffer though, if not sucking it out.
May be the Galeasts think it feeds into May Election bad performance and they put the dog down then with “voters clearly passed their judgement on law breaking Boris. Leaving us no choice.”
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
1. Its Covid. You aren't allowed to gather socially. Hence 50 and counting fines issues 2. Its clearly not work. I have eaten cake at work before. I have had birthday gatherings at work before. You aren't working at that point 3. They sang "Happy Birthday" over the cake. Ask any child what a birthday party looks like and its a load of your friends in a room singing Happy Birthday over the cake.
OK, so it wasn't Bunga Bunga like the one where Big Dog Liar waves his can of vaguely beer at the camera. But it clearly was not a work event. Sunak should have known better.
Sorry but that's utter bollocks.
If you gather for work purposes then having a slice of cake and singing happy birthday during your work meeting is not a party and was not against the law either. People who needed to be gathered together for required work purposes were entitled to eat and talk.
Okay. So your boyz can simply loudly and proudly announce they're not paying the fixed penalty notices, and they'll take their chances in court wielding the sword of justice and trusty shield of British fair play. And bloody good luck to them.
How many times do I need to say it, I've said the law has been broken.
The law was not to do with "parties" though. The law can be broken, without parties having happened or attended, because the law was so draconian - which I was objecting to at the time this was happening.
He should go because of the law. Parties are neither here, nor there, nor proven, nor is lying. Lawbreaking is.
When Sunak and Johnson denied in Parliament that there were "parties" they clearly weren't saying that, whilst there was lawbreaking, there was no "party" within their own personal definition of the term. They were saying the rules were followed. Nobody in their right mind, either at the time or now, interpretted it as being a debate about exactly how much cake and how many party poppers constitutes a "party".
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
Your decision is based on opinion polls? That's not the most ethical stance to take
If the Labour leads is 10.1%+, I am assuming HYUFD will be firing up the torch, grabbing the pitch-fork and calling for his resignation.
It might not - things like this can take a few days to a week to percolate through to “everyone” knowing it.
I would expect a surprisingly small drop today, and a serious widening of the Labour lead in a few days. Think proper polls, fieldwork more than 3 days from now.
Very very good point.
It can be like a tsunami: not one instantaneous crashing wave but a huge continuous surge: a wall that increases in force.
That is what happened with Black Wednesday. There was one hit but then a continuous surge as the Labour leads grew over several weeks.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
Your decision is based on opinion polls? That's not the most ethical stance to take
I can guarantee it is what most Tory MPs will be basing their decision on though.
Boris was not made Tory leader and PM as he was a man of great ethics and morality but as polls showed he could win a general election.
He could be removed from No 10 as much as he went to No 10 based on the polls and the voters' verdict of him
Sarah Jane Mee of Sky has said that the response to them from the public is evenly split on Boris resigning
The precedent Mr Johnson sets if he does not resign for misleading Parliament which is now the key charge, and proven if the fines are accepted and not challenged, is outrageous. It allows any Minister or future Prime Minister can tell any old bollocks to Parliament without fear of the ultimate sanction.
I don't believe Mr Sunak has made that same grave error of misleading the House, nonetheless he now has a moral duty to go too. That would also put Mr Johnson under greater pressure. I wonder whether the removal vans at No 11 pre-empted his departure on the grounds of Partygate?
The Ministerial Code, Parliament and the Office of Prime Minister will be in disrepute if Johnson stays.
Sarah Jane Mee of Sky has said that the response to them from the public is evenly split on Boris resigning
The precedent Mr Johnson sets if he does not resign for misleading Parliament which is now the key charge, and proven if the fines are accepted and not challenged, is outrageous. It allows any Minister or future Prime Minister can tell any old bollocks to Parliament without fear of the ultimate sanction.
I don't believe Mr Sunak has made that same grave error of misleading the House, nonetheless he now has a moral duty to go too. That would also put Mr Johnson under greater pressure. I wonder whether the removal vans at No 11 pre-empted his departure on the grounds of Partygate?
The Ministerial Code, Parliament and the Office of Prime Minister will be in disrepute if Johnson stays.
Then this REALLY is going to be 1997 all over again. No Starmer isn't Blair but the country isn't in the mood for schmaltz anyway so a serious man for serious times will do the job just, well, I was going to say just 'fine' but maybe that's not the best word right now.
NEW: Douglas Ross, leader of the Scottish Tories who called on Boris Johnson to resign in February, says "it wouldn't be right to remove the prime minister at this time"
I hope he doesn't do his refereeing and his VAR stuff like that. Imagine calling someone up 15 mins after a yellowcard and saying 'By the way, forget it, doesn't count now'.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
Christianity is based on forgiveness as much as Old Testament condemnation, provided the perpetrator shows remorse
For the Prime Minister and Chancellor to be fined while parliament is in recess and cannot be held to account by MPs is extraordinary. The Met Police are literally a law unto themselves
Twattish even for Peston. There's a very good reason why there is no precedent for the procedure to be followed when the PM and Chancellor are simultaneously charged with a crime.
Then this REALLY is going to be 1997 all over again. No Starmer isn't Blair but the country isn't in the mood for schmaltz anyway so a serious man for serious times will do the job just, well, I was going to say just 'fine' but maybe that's not the best word right now.
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
Unfortunately, as others have noted, lying to Parliament hasn't caused resignations in the past. What needs to be done is set a new precedent.
Of course Johnson will not resign. Of course Tory MPs will not force him to. That would involve a level of patriotism and respect for democracy that we all know neither possess.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
In HYUFD's defence (not that he needs my help!), he often veers from what he thinks, to the logical conclusion of an argument he has made (which is not necessarily what he actually thinks), to a real-politik assessment of what he thinks is going to happen. I sometimes find it difficult to trace which phase we are in.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
Christianity is based on forgiveness as much as Old Testament condemnation, provided the perpetrator shows remorse
Trouble is that Mr Johnson, as with the ethics arrangements in HMG, is de facto boss of the extramural ethics dept aka the C of E.
Roger Gale, one of Boris's principal critics, has said that now is not the moment as we deal with Ukraine and the refugee crisis bit I do not think the PM will lead us into the next election
And here's your regular reminder that the UK changed PMs on the day Bucharest fell to the Kaiser, and the day Hitler invaded France (as well as while forces massed for the first Gulf War).
Without wishing to diminish the importance of the war in Ukraine and Britain's role as a (significant) non-combatant, the idea from Tory MPs that we can't possibly change PMs now is as ignorant of history as it is utterly spineless.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
Your decision is based on opinion polls? That's not the most ethical stance to take
I can guarantee it is what most Tory MPs will be basing their decision on though.
Boris was not made Tory leader and PM as he was a man of great ethics and morality but as polls showed he could win a general election.
He could be removed from No 10 as much as he went to No 10 based on the polls and the voters' verdict of him
Andrew Bridgen also saying now is not the time to topple the PM
Sky saying while the opposition are understandably seeking the PM resignation, the conservative party seem to be saying not at this time and hand Putin a win
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
Christianity is based on forgiveness as much as Old Testament condemnation, provided the perpetrator shows remorse
Trouble is that Mr Johnson, as with the ethics arrangements in HMG, is de facto boss of the extramural ethics dept aka the C of E.
Sarah Jane Mee of Sky has said that the response to them from the public is evenly split on Boris resigning
The precedent Mr Johnson sets if he does not resign for misleading Parliament which is now the key charge, and proven if the fines are accepted and not challenged, is outrageous. It allows any Minister or future Prime Minister can tell any old bollocks to Parliament without fear of the ultimate sanction.
I don't believe Mr Sunak has made that same grave error of misleading the House, nonetheless he now has a moral duty to go too. That would also put Mr Johnson under greater pressure. I wonder whether the removal vans at No 11 pre-empted his departure on the grounds of Partygate?
The Ministerial Code, Parliament and the Office of Prime Minister will be in disrepute if Johnson stays.
[Angus Deayton voice:]
So no change there, then.
Seriously- since Summer 2019, BoJo has been gently boiling that frog perfectly until there is nothing left but frog soup.
Sarah Jane Mee of Sky has said that the response to them from the public is evenly split on Boris resigning
The precedent Mr Johnson sets if he does not resign for misleading Parliament which is now the key charge, and proven if the fines are accepted and not challenged, is outrageous. It allows any Minister or future Prime Minister can tell any old bollocks to Parliament without fear of the ultimate sanction.
I don't believe Mr Sunak has made that same grave error of misleading the House, nonetheless he now has a moral duty to go too. That would also put Mr Johnson under greater pressure. I wonder whether the removal vans at No 11 pre-empted his departure on the grounds of Partygate?
The Ministerial Code, Parliament and the Office of Prime Minister will be in disrepute if Johnson stays.
Tony Blair
Wash your mouth out! Dear me. Never heard such language.
https://twitter.com/PrifWeinidog Mark Drakeford @PrifWeinidog · 7m You can’t be a law-maker and a law-breaker. The Prime Minister has denied time and again that he did anything wrong.
He has clearly broken the laws he made and asked people to follow. People are angry and upset. I don’t see how someone in this position can carry on.
Law maker and law breaker is the issue. Not "parties" or anything said in Parliament.
Roger Gale, one of Boris's principal critics, has said that now is not the moment as we deal with Ukraine and the refugee crisis bit I do not think the PM will lead us into the next election
And here's your regular reminder that the UK changed PMs on the day Bucharest fell to the Kaiser, and the day Hitler invaded France (as well as while forces massed for the first Gulf War).
Without wishing to diminish the importance of the war in Ukraine and Britain's role as a (significant) non-combatant, the idea from Tory MPs that we can't possibly change PMs now is as ignorant of history as it is utterly spineless.
I have reluctantly concluded that if Johnson was the one who was just convicted of molesting a 15 year old he would probably ride it out
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, so that is a resigning offence.
Lying to Parliament has not been proven. It doesn't need to be though, lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
1. "I did not attend a party" 2. Fined for attending a party 3. Q.E.D.
Proven.
2. Fined for attending a party breaking the law.
Fines have nothing to do with parties, it has to do with the law. Lawbreaking does not require parties.
The party was the gathering that was illegal. If it had been considered a work meeting there would have been no fine. It was not work according to the police. Because of cake and "Happy Birthday"
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
He's following the eleventh commandment: "Thou shalt not become a liability in the polls."
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, so that is a resigning offence.
Lying to Parliament has not been proven. It doesn't need to be though, lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
1. "I did not attend a party" 2. Fined for attending a party 3. Q.E.D.
Proven.
2. Fined for attending a party breaking the law.
Fines have nothing to do with parties, it has to do with the law. Lawbreaking does not require parties.
The party was the gathering that was illegal. If it had been considered a work meeting there would have been no fine. It was not work according to the police. Because of cake and "Happy Birthday"
That doesn't prove it was a party, it proves the law was broken. As I said all along.
Of course Johnson will not resign. Of course Tory MPs will not force him to. That would involve a level of patriotism and respect for democracy that we all know neither possess.
Yep. They possess neither the warmth nor the depth...
For the Prime Minister and Chancellor to be fined while parliament is in recess and cannot be held to account by MPs is extraordinary. The Met Police are literally a law unto themselves
Twattish even for Peston. There's a very good reason why there is no precedent for the procedure to be followed when the PM and Chancellor are simultaneously charged with a crime.
He's right though. This first thing I thought on hearing the news was that the Met had been leant on to announce this during easter recess.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
He's following the eleventh commandment: "Thou shalt not become a liability in the polls."
For HYUFD it is the first and only commandment apparently.
Would an election be cancelled under the guise of now is not the time .
Surely having a leader that the public can trust is important at this time . The Tory MPs are a spineless bunch and will continue to avoid doing the right thing .
Looks to me as if the responses have all been prepared, as part of the grand strategy which also saw the defenestration of Rishi Sunak.
What Boris has failed to understand is the public mood. This kind of thing plays out very badly indeed.
It just makes 2024 more catastrophic. Don't say you were not warned and, god willing, I shall be around here on results night not to gloat but to reflect rather sadly that a once great party could have come to this.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
Christianity is based on forgiveness as much as Old Testament condemnation, provided the perpetrator shows remorse
Its not a lie if he didn't think anything he attended was a party.
Breaking the law is more serious than that.
There was a cake. And a singing of Happy Birthday. By Rishi Sunak.
If he didn't think that was a party...
I've had cake and sang happy birthday while at work before. Still thought of it as work, not a party.
If wishing a colleague a happy birthday, while in the office, while at a work meeting is a "party" then you and I have different interpretations of the word party.
Even if that is true, it is hard to argue it was ‘reasonably necessary for work purposes,’ which was the relevant law and should have been comprehensible even to this lot.
However, Johnson then has to explain how raising his glass of beer to a camera while wishing somebody happy birthday in a non-office location wasn’t a party!
I would strongly suggest that Boris's opponents avoid detailed arguments about what is or is not a party - it risks clouding the issue which should be very simple: he imposed draconian restrictions on the rest of us, and then failed to follow them. In which case, he felt that either (a) it was safe to ignore the restrictions because they were unnecessary; or (b) the restrictions shouldn't apply just to him (possibly through use of what he thought was a loophole.
Either way, he needs to go. Whether he lied to Parliament is moot.
This is *not* about the parties any more. Unless he is able to overturn the FPN, they are not in doubt (legally). This is now purely about the layers of lies. No-one should mention the party. Just the FPN and the lies.
No, the lies are irrelevant and distracting. It's about breaking the law.
AIUI there's no obligation to resign for that. But the thing that *does* oblige him to resign is lying to Parliament, under the ministerial code. So "breaking the law" is in fact a distraction from the resigning offence.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, so that is a resigning offence.
Lying to Parliament has not been proven. It doesn't need to be though, lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
1. "I did not attend a party" 2. Fined for attending a party 3. Q.E.D.
Proven.
2. Fined for attending a party breaking the law.
Fines have nothing to do with parties, it has to do with the law. Lawbreaking does not require parties.
The party was the gathering that was illegal. If it had been considered a work meeting there would have been no fine. It was not work according to the police. Because of cake and "Happy Birthday"
That doesn't prove it was a party, it proves the law was broken. As I said all along.
You can break the law even without a party.
As entertaining as the pinhead dancing is, shall we split it down the middle?
It was illegal to gather indoors if not for essential work. The Met decreed this was not work, thus the fines. Whether it was a party or not, the presence of a birthday cake and singing of Happy Birthday was the evidence taken into consideration that this was not work.
Don't think said pinhead dancing will wash with the public should he try to defend the party sorry non-work gathering with cake and singing.
Possibly PM Wallace or Javid or Truss by the end of the summer if true.
Though depends on how bad the polling and local election losses turn out to be for the Tories as to whether Johnson and Sunak survive
Direct question. The Prime Minister deliberately mislead the House. Repeatedly.
Do you think he should follow the Ministerial Code and resign?
Blair did not resign after misleading the House over WMD.
Thatcher/Belgrano?
What did she mislead the house about?
Absolutely nothing. The Belgrano was part of a pincer movement that was a threat to the task force. The decision to sink was a tough one but militarily correct. The loss of life was exacerbated by the supporting Argentine vessels fleeing the scene.
I never understood the fuss about the Belgrano. Wars are not won by playing nice.
The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility.
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
Depends what the polls say over the next week. If he keeps the Labour lead under 10% he can stay
For an alleged Christian you have a remarkably transactional approach to the notion of right and wrong.
Christianity is based on forgiveness as much as Old Testament condemnation, provided the perpetrator shows remorse
Trouble is that Mr Johnson, as with the ethics arrangements in HMG, is de facto boss of the extramural ethics dept aka the C of E.
Comments
The only power with leverage is that possessed by Tory MPs to force a VONC among the Tory MPs, and the power of the opposition to force a VONC in the House of Commons.
Good luck with both of those.
PS Truss will not be the next leader.
Fines have nothing to do with parties, it has to do with the law. Lawbreaking does not require parties.
I would expect a surprisingly small drop today, and a serious widening of the Labour lead in a few days. Think proper polls, fieldwork more than 3 days from now.
'Provocation' might refer to this:
Russia is planning to commit a terrorist act by blowing down residential buildings on its own territory. It is also planning to commit a missile-aircraft attack on Belgorod (Russia) or one of the cities in the occupied Crimea in order to blame Ukraine — Ukrainian Intelligence
https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1513857674580004870
"I was totally unaware I was supposed to drive on the left hand side of the road therefore I should not be prosecuted with a charge of death by dangerous driving despite sending a dozen cyclists to meet their maker".
Guilty as charged!
BREAKING Conservative MP Sir Roger Gale says now is not the time to “unseat” the Prime Minister.
This is significant as Gale was one of the first critics of Boris Johnson over #partygate.
If he does not want the PM to quit, others will be reluctant to break cover.
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1513881947747016710
So they agree with me, it is the law that is at stake here, not parties.
Were millions of people denied freedom for nothing?
BY JOHAN ANDERBERG"
https://unherd.com/2022/04/swedens-inconvenient-covid-victory/
Of all you right of centre posters on here, which always feels to me like a tidal surge, is there any one of you who does not think the Prime Minister should now resign?
https://twitter.com/olgatokariuk/status/1513857950296723458
The law was not to do with "parties" though. The law can be broken, without parties having happened or attended, because the law was so draconian - which I was objecting to at the time this was happening.
He should go because of the law. Parties are neither here, nor there, nor proven, nor is lying. Lawbreaking is.
They've dragged her back now - as cover. yet again:
Harry Cole
@MrHarryCole
·
14m
Suspect this will be the line as here come the loyalists. Is Sue Gray is the new rubicon for backbenchers?
Darren Henry MP #ServingBroxtowe
@DarrenG_Henry
· 19m
It is right that those who break rules are punished. Due to the Prime Minister’s and the Chancellor’s public facing roles I expect a public apology.
As I previously stated, I am not going to make my final statement until the full Sue Gray Report is released.
Who else is there? Patel isn’t going to get it. Rishi is done. Tugenhadt isn’t even a minister. Mordaunt might be a good leader in opposition but has limited cabinet experience. Anyone like Mogg or Dorries is too bonkers even for the Tory party.
It can be like a tsunami: not one instantaneous crashing wave but a huge continuous surge: a wall that increases in force.
That is what happened with Black Wednesday. There was one hit but then a continuous surge as the Labour leads grew over several weeks.
It can take time for a meme to gain momentum.
1) something happens
2) next poll doesn’t show a big move
3) it’s declared a non-event
4) the poll averages move a few days later
Sunak might be made to walk after the locals, but he is off anyway to return to the private sector pretty soon.
https://youtu.be/l6BW-mvkRjE
May be the Galeasts think it feeds into May Election bad performance and they put the dog down then with “voters clearly passed their judgement on law breaking Boris. Leaving us no choice.”
I have asked her what I should have told my children when they were growing up. Should I have said "It's OK to lie - as long as you think you can get away with it."
NEW: Douglas Ross, leader of the Scottish Tories who called on Boris Johnson to resign in February, says "it wouldn't be right to remove the prime minister at this time"
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1513886794269564938
"President @ZelenskyyUa has refused to host #Germany's Head of State.
'Bild' reports that "because of his close ties with Russia" German President Steinmeier would not be welcomed for an official visit to #Kyiv."
https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1513886299568156676?s=20&t=FYvDkiKO34qr17bG9r31Uw
Your argument is therefore utterly ludicrous.
Read headline...
Cheshire Cat grin!
The Truss must be getting very excited this afternoon.
Boris was not made Tory leader and PM as he was a man of great ethics and morality but as polls showed he could win a general election.
He could be removed from No 10 as much as he went to No 10 based on the polls and the voters' verdict of him
I don't believe Mr Sunak has made that same grave error of misleading the House, nonetheless he now has a moral duty to go too. That would also put Mr Johnson under greater pressure. I wonder whether the removal vans at No 11 pre-empted his departure on the grounds of Partygate?
The Ministerial Code, Parliament and the Office of Prime Minister will be in disrepute if Johnson stays.
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1513866373398736898?s=20&t=2O54bpf73Cjd2KTDS-XaLA
Then this REALLY is going to be 1997 all over again. No Starmer isn't Blair but the country isn't in the mood for schmaltz anyway so a serious man for serious times will do the job just, well, I was going to say just 'fine' but maybe that's not the best word right now.
And what equipment? They moved everything on wheels into Ukraine as they have lost so much kit.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1513867077110714378
Twattish even for Peston. There's a very good reason why there is no precedent for the procedure to be followed when the PM and Chancellor are simultaneously charged with a crime.
I wonder what @Tissue_Price thinks?
Without wishing to diminish the importance of the war in Ukraine and Britain's role as a (significant) non-combatant, the idea from Tory MPs that we can't possibly change PMs now is as ignorant of history as it is utterly spineless.
Sky saying while the opposition are understandably seeking the PM resignation, the conservative party seem to be saying not at this time and hand Putin a win
Parliament will not be recalled
So no change there, then.
Seriously- since Summer 2019, BoJo has been gently boiling that frog perfectly until there is nothing left but frog soup.
https://twitter.com/PrifWeinidog
Mark Drakeford
@PrifWeinidog
·
7m
You can’t be a law-maker and a law-breaker. The Prime Minister has denied time and again that he did anything wrong.
He has clearly broken the laws he made and asked people to follow. People are angry and upset. I don’t see how someone in this position can carry on.
Law maker and law breaker is the issue. Not "parties" or anything said in Parliament.
You can break the law even without a party.
Funny none of them seem to have addressed that.
Surely having a leader that the public can trust is important at this time . The Tory MPs are a spineless bunch and will continue to avoid doing the right thing .
What Boris has failed to understand is the public mood. This kind of thing plays out very badly indeed.
It just makes 2024 more catastrophic. Don't say you were not warned and, god willing, I shall be around here on results night not to gloat but to reflect rather sadly that a once great party could have come to this.
No deaths. Suspect still at large, I think.
It was illegal to gather indoors if not for essential work. The Met decreed this was not work, thus the fines. Whether it was a party or not, the presence of a birthday cake and singing of Happy Birthday was the evidence taken into consideration that this was not work.
Don't think said pinhead dancing will wash with the public should he try to defend the party sorry non-work gathering with cake and singing.
Which is why you are a dickhead.