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Known unknowns – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited April 2022 in General
Known unknowns – politicalbetting.com

Brits think the removal of all COVID-19 restrictions has happened…Too soon: 44%The right time: 34%Not soon enough: 13%https://t.co/PQp3XNmL9q pic.twitter.com/DPjCTQntCK

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    First.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Strangely, after such a dreadful global experience, I don’t think Covid is going to be the Number 1, or even necessarily the Number 2, topic on people’s minds as the pencils hover hesitantly over the various boxes.

    Number 1 will be the cost of living crisis and the first major decline in living standards since the 1950s. To populations not hardened by the trials of war, this is going to be a major societal and political shock.

    Number 2 is the general feeling of malaise. Covid being only a small part of that. The list of contributing factors is long, but in summary, people are ill at ease. Something is not quite right, and the Conservatives are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    NOM 1.94
    Con Maj 3.1
    Lab Maj 5.3
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    I am amazed to see so many Ukraine flags still out... It's unbelievable.

    I had a discussion in the sauna at my local swimming pool last week. One guy was going on about how he supported Russia, as 'only a few thousand' had died in Ukraine, whereas in Iraq and Afghanistan, the UK and US had killed 1 to 2 million civilians. The interesting thing, is that this guy doesn't come across as stupid - he is a martial arts expert, travelling around the country doing demonstrations. From what I could see and hear, it seems like he has got in to the trap of thinking that he understands international affairs, and had become convinced of the belief that 'we are always evil' and are responsible for every death in every war that we have become involved in - the perspective that you might get if you read books by Noam Chomsky for instance. His support for Russia was a consequence of this revulsion.

    To try and talk someone out of that position (I didn't try, other than to correct him on a couple of factual points) would be very, very difficult.

    Ultimately, you need propoganda - to make conflicts in to simple things that people understand. I am amazed at the success of Ukraine at this, but Russia have helped them a lot by their conduct, and continue to do so as the war goes on.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Looking more and more likely that Scottish Labour are now a clear 2nd place in voting intention. This is important for several reasons. It is a development I thoroughly welcome, if actually true. We’ll soon find out: 5 May just round the corner.

    This is one of the stats that cheers me the most: retention of voters.

    Voting intention, by vote at 2019 UK GE

    SNP 97%
    PC 96%
    Lab 89%
    Con 82%
    LD 70%

    (SavantaComRes; 25-27 March; 2,226)

    Coupled with top of the table ‘Certain to Vote’ figures for Scotland, this all looks bad for Ross & Co. They desperately need low turnout to flatter their numbers.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258

    Strangely, after such a dreadful global experience, I don’t think Covid is going to be the Number 1, or even necessarily the Number 2, topic on people’s minds as the pencils hover hesitantly over the various boxes.

    Number 1 will be the cost of living crisis and the first major decline in living standards since the 1950s. To populations not hardened by the trials of war, this is going to be a major societal and political shock.

    Number 2 is the general feeling of malaise. Covid being only a small part of that. The list of contributing factors is long, but in summary, people are ill at ease. Something is not quite right, and the Conservatives are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    I agree with this. Think you are spot on.

    What covid will probably do is generate a particularly negative feeling towards Boris & Co over partygate. People are still very angry, and hurt, about it and when that part of the story is brought back to the surface, as it will be by the Opposition and the boys at Led by Donkeys, it is going to have a powerful emotional impact. I am certain that this will undo every attempt Boris makes to claim he got all the big decisions right. In fact, the more he says that, the more voters will be reminded of what happened. Partygate has undone any tory success on vaccines.

    But you are right anyway, neither covid nor Ukraine will be uppermost (unless Putin invades elsewhere).

    I have never known this country so unhappy.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    People always believe what they want to believe. A Corbyniite friend of mine, when he's had a few, tries to persuade me of the righteousness of Putin's cause. Why? Because all Ukranians are Nazis - Putin says so. He'll believe the Swedes are too, if Putin says so. Like Corbyn, evidence is irrelevant.

    Therefore, NATO are the enemy.

    Activists are like that. Certain things are inviolate, facts must be fitted to that mindset.

    I think Bojo is a very poor PM, but he occasionally does something right. He selected the right woman to organise the vaccine roll-out, and he has the right instincts over Ukraine. I think Starmer's heart is in the right place, but he over-thinks. "What's a woman?" Say what you think. Go with the biology. A Y chromosome? Extremely rare exceptions. A dick? Not in my experience. There, that wasn't so hard, was it.

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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    Just as an addition, we all need to watch the propensity to wish-cast. I obviously want the tories to be hammered and this colours my interpretation of events. When betting it's essential to deploy the head more than the heart.

    My head tells me that Stuart is right: the cost of living crisis, decline in living standards and general feeling of malaise are a terrible recipe for the Conservatives. Boris Johnson may try to use his super-ego to talk up the nation but, as Canute found, you can't halt the tide.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,258
    edited April 2022
    CD13 said:

    "What's a woman?" Say what you think. Go with the biology. A Y chromosome? Extremely rare exceptions. A dick? Not in my experience. There, that wasn't so hard, was it.

    I'm not sure what argument you are supposed to be making here as it (and you) seem rather confused. Gender, and sex, are complex. There's no need for me to go into that here because, whatever a few armchair people might think, the next general election is not going to be decided over a debate on transgender rights. On a ranking of the top 50 concerns of people, it wouldn't even feature.

    This is the terrible mistake the tories made in 1992-7. John Major thought his back to basics, which is the same table thumping for the Mail readers, would win back the core support.

    Actually people didn't give a fuck.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    kle4 said:

    Yanis Varoufakis laying out his position in interview, having been (in his eyes) unfairly labelled a Putin apologising westplainer. He doesn't come across as crazy, and it is not at the Stop the War level.

    Reading it I think the key problem he has, and many have, is a focus on the most important goal being an 'immediate cessation of fire and withdrawal of Russia troops'.

    Because the former to me seems unlikely to happen with the latter. Giving Putin a win to immediately get cessation of fire would surely mean accepting him continuing to occupy areas, which means the latter goal is impossible, or at least incompatible, with the former.

    Russia's continuing occupation is inevitable at this point. Let's at least tell ourselves the truth. They aren't going to be rolled back to the 2014 or even January 2022 borders.

    Giving VVP something he can market as a win (probably the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts and a land bridge to Crimea) is the only way this ends short of the extremely unlikely Kremlin palace coup. The alternative is the total and probably permanent destruction of Ukraine.
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    MalcolmDunnMalcolmDunn Posts: 139
    Really surprised to see the results of this poll. I'm a middle aged guy living in the west Midlands. I know we shouldn-t use anecdotes to judge national opinion but I know no one absolutely no one who feels that restrictions were lifted too soon
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    Just as an addition, we all need to watch the propensity to wish-cast. I obviously want the tories to be hammered and this colours my interpretation of events. When betting it's essential to deploy the head more than the heart.

    My head tells me that Stuart is right: the cost of living crisis, decline in living standards and general feeling of malaise are a terrible recipe for the Conservatives. Boris Johnson may try to use his super-ego to talk up the nation but, as Canute found, you can't halt the tide.

    Cnut didn't find that, he knew it all along and was demonstrating it to others
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Ms Heathener,

    Sex is not complex, it is made complex by some. Evolutionary-wise, it has a purpose. Gender has none. DNA replication is not 100% perfect because to make it so would be a massive drain on the body's resources, and not compatible with normal life. However, it is as near perfect as it needs to be.

    Human judgement, by comparison is shite.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    "If I were advising Sir Keir Starmer I’d tell him to link the delay in dealing with backlog to the early lifting of restrictions as the NHS is swamped dealing with Covid-19 infections rather than dealing with the backlog".

    It has the benefit of being true.

    Public reaction to the Ukraine crisis is in danger of moving in unpredictable ways. The fervour is unlikely to last and alternative views are going to start appearing. This has nothing to do with rights or wrongs it's just the way public opinion works.

    'Things sweet prove in digestion sour'
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Yanis Varoufakis laying out his position in interview, having been (in his eyes) unfairly labelled a Putin apologising westplainer. He doesn't come across as crazy, and it is not at the Stop the War level.

    Reading it I think the key problem he has, and many have, is a focus on the most important goal being an 'immediate cessation of fire and withdrawal of Russia troops'.

    Because the former to me seems unlikely to happen with the latter. Giving Putin a win to immediately get cessation of fire would surely mean accepting him continuing to occupy areas, which means the latter goal is impossible, or at least incompatible, with the former.

    Russia's continuing occupation is inevitable at this point. Let's at least tell ourselves the truth. They aren't going to be rolled back to the 2014 or even January 2022 borders.

    Giving VVP something he can market as a win (probably the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts and a land bridge to Crimea) is the only way this ends short of the extremely unlikely Kremlin palace coup. The alternative is the total and probably permanent destruction of Ukraine.
    Haven't your calls on Russia's progress in the war so far been somewhat wrong? From memory (and apols if this is wrong), you've been rather optimistic about Russia's capabilities. Given their withdrawal from Kyiv.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985

    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Yanis Varoufakis laying out his position in interview, having been (in his eyes) unfairly labelled a Putin apologising westplainer. He doesn't come across as crazy, and it is not at the Stop the War level.

    Reading it I think the key problem he has, and many have, is a focus on the most important goal being an 'immediate cessation of fire and withdrawal of Russia troops'.

    Because the former to me seems unlikely to happen with the latter. Giving Putin a win to immediately get cessation of fire would surely mean accepting him continuing to occupy areas, which means the latter goal is impossible, or at least incompatible, with the former.

    Russia's continuing occupation is inevitable at this point. Let's at least tell ourselves the truth. They aren't going to be rolled back to the 2014 or even January 2022 borders.

    Giving VVP something he can market as a win (probably the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts and a land bridge to Crimea) is the only way this ends short of the extremely unlikely Kremlin palace coup. The alternative is the total and probably permanent destruction of Ukraine.
    Haven't your calls on Russia's progress in the war so far been somewhat wrong? From memory (and apols if this is wrong), you've been rather optimistic about Russia's capabilities. Given their withdrawal from Kyiv.
    My opinion on these matters is worth exactly what you paid for it.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    OT. Does anyone know if the Opininium poll in todays Observer is using their new methodology? If so it's a serious poke in the eye for the government. The worst from that pollster for a long time.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Russia allegedly turns its 'denazification' rhetoric onto Latvia:

    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1512491275630559244

    Which is why Russia needs to be seen to lose this war. If they get a 'win' in Ukraine, however modest, they will be looking at more. They are an evil, fascist and imperialist regime, and a direct threat to world peace.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,970

    Really surprised to see the results of this poll. I'm a middle aged guy living in the west Midlands. I know we shouldn-t use anecdotes to judge national opinion but I know no one absolutely no one who feels that restrictions were lifted too soon

    Went to a memorial service yesterday. Chap had died in March 2020; not sure if it was Covid.Didn't LOOK as if people thought restrictions had been lifted too soon; everyone was behaving as they would have pre-Covid, but with one exception. The pandemic was very often mentioned, and it seemed that many people had quite recently tested positive, and felt ill.
    The poll yesterday I think might be indicative of feelings was in the Observer; it says that young (under 35) adults think that 'donors to political parties and big businesses are now ..... the main drivers of government policy.'
    Even among older people the split as to whether the system is working well is no better than evens.

    I have to admit that there's little comparison with the past..... was it always thus?

    That's a big opportunity for some sort of anti-democrat.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,588
    edited April 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Yanis Varoufakis laying out his position in interview, having been (in his eyes) unfairly labelled a Putin apologising westplainer. He doesn't come across as crazy, and it is not at the Stop the War level.

    Reading it I think the key problem he has, and many have, is a focus on the most important goal being an 'immediate cessation of fire and withdrawal of Russia troops'.

    Because the former to me seems unlikely to happen with the latter. Giving Putin a win to immediately get cessation of fire would surely mean accepting him continuing to occupy areas, which means the latter goal is impossible, or at least incompatible, with the former.

    Russia's continuing occupation is inevitable at this point. Let's at least tell ourselves the truth. They aren't going to be rolled back to the 2014 or even January 2022 borders.

    Giving VVP something he can market as a win (probably the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts and a land bridge to Crimea) is the only way this ends short of the extremely unlikely Kremlin palace coup. The alternative is the total and probably permanent destruction of Ukraine.
    I don't think the war ends until Russia retreats the rest of its forces to the Jan 2022 borders. No Ukranian will tolerate more of what we saw in Bucha etc, it is existential for Ukraine.

    The Ukranians will fight and the west will arm and fund them. Not least because the destruction of Russian conventional combat capability prevents a real threat to Poland, the Baltics and Scandinavia.

    Raiding supply lines is more of a problem in the open country of the south compared to the forests of the north, but on the other hand makes for a target rich environment for the switchblade drone systems. Will the Russians fight as doggedly for Kherson as the Ukranians did at Hostomel? I think not.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Yanis Varoufakis laying out his position in interview, having been (in his eyes) unfairly labelled a Putin apologising westplainer. He doesn't come across as crazy, and it is not at the Stop the War level.

    Reading it I think the key problem he has, and many have, is a focus on the most important goal being an 'immediate cessation of fire and withdrawal of Russia troops'.

    Because the former to me seems unlikely to happen with the latter. Giving Putin a win to immediately get cessation of fire would surely mean accepting him continuing to occupy areas, which means the latter goal is impossible, or at least incompatible, with the former.

    Russia's continuing occupation is inevitable at this point. Let's at least tell ourselves the truth. They aren't going to be rolled back to the 2014 or even January 2022 borders.

    Giving VVP something he can market as a win (probably the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts and a land bridge to Crimea) is the only way this ends short of the extremely unlikely Kremlin palace coup. The alternative is the total and probably permanent destruction of Ukraine.
    Haven't your calls on Russia's progress in the war so far been somewhat wrong? From memory (and apols if this is wrong), you've been rather optimistic about Russia's capabilities. Given their withdrawal from Kyiv.
    My opinion on these matters is worth exactly what you paid for it.
    TBF, they are probably a little more valuable than mine... ;)

    This war could end with the total capitulation of Ukraine and it being made a Russian vassal state; regime change in Russia; use of NBC weapons by Russia, a lengthy stalemate over current lines, an orderly Russian withdrawal, a Ukrainian rout of Russian forces, or many more.

    But given the lacklustre performance by Russian troops so far, I doubt it will end up with Russia taking Kiev by conventional means. The question is how quickly Russia can generate troops and train them to a better standard - given that such training may be somewhat counter to their military culture.

    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited April 2022

    Really surprised to see the results of this poll. I'm a middle aged guy living in the west Midlands. I know we shouldn-t use anecdotes to judge national opinion but I know no one absolutely no one who feels that restrictions were lifted too soon

    You're also a Tory I imagine? My generalisation is that Tories rate their intuition more reliable than polls.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    Millions of views on social media already. Quite a few in Russia I bet. Must stick in your throat that.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,970
    edited April 2022

    Russia allegedly turns its 'denazification' rhetoric onto Latvia:

    https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1512491275630559244

    Which is why Russia needs to be seen to lose this war. If they get a 'win' in Ukraine, however modest, they will be looking at more. They are an evil, fascist and imperialist regime, and a direct threat to world peace.

    How much of WWII is 'remembered'? AIUI, many people who 'didn't like' Soviet Communism, especially in the non-Russian parts of western USSR welcomed the invading Germans as liberators. It was only when the invaders proved to be even more unpleasant than the Soviets that they turned back to supporting the Soviet Army.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,588
    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    I don't think they have the numbers any more. This isnt 1812 or 1941.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    Yet they withdrew from Kyiv, when they were on its very borders (the comparisons with Germany at the gates of Moscow should not be missed).

    And do they have those large numbers any more? Do the demographics suit Russia, as they once did? And is there the political will to go for a vast call-up of the population? Do they have the equipment to equip those troops properly?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
    edited April 2022

    Really surprised to see the results of this poll. I'm a middle aged guy living in the west Midlands. I know we shouldn-t use anecdotes to judge national opinion but I know no one absolutely no one who feels that restrictions were lifted too soon

    There is a very marked age skew:

    Too soon/ About Right / Not soon enough (net "Too Soon")

    18-24: 31 / 36 / 17 (-19)
    25-49: 38 / 36 / 15 (-13)
    50-65: 48 / 31 / 13 (+4)
    65+: 56 / 32 / 8 (+16)

    I suppose the hypothesis is "Pensioners will start voting Labour because of COVID restrictions lifted two years earlier". Hmmmmm......
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    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    When did Russia/USSR last lose so many men in a war?

    I’m sure they didn’t in Syria or Chechnya.. Afghanistan? I thought the numbers there were similar to Ukraine so far, but over years. And they lost there and some say it led to the fall of the USSR.

    So do we go back 80 odd years to WW2. Which was beating the Nazis. I wouldn’t say they “pointlessly” died then.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
    Per @TheStudyofWar - "The Russian military is attempting to generate sufficient combat power to seize and hold the portions of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts that it does not currently control after it completes the seizure of Mariupol...... There are good reasons to question the Russian armed forces’ ability to do so and their ability to use regenerated combat power effectively"

    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1512970382294364164
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854
    Heathener said:

    CD13 said:

    "What's a woman?" Say what you think. Go with the biology. A Y chromosome? Extremely rare exceptions. A dick? Not in my experience. There, that wasn't so hard, was it.

    I'm not sure what argument you are supposed to be making here as it (and you) seem rather confused. Gender, and sex, are complex. There's no need for me to go into that here because, whatever a few armchair people might think, the next general election is not going to be decided over a debate on transgender rights. On a ranking of the top 50 concerns of people, it wouldn't even feature.

    This is the terrible mistake the tories made in 1992-7. John Major thought his back to basics, which is the same table thumping for the Mail readers, would win back the core support.

    Actually people didn't give a fuck.
    Actually a lot do, you obviously know nothing of Scotland and the self id idiots running the show. Hence any labour improvement , if you don't like the SNP there is only one place you can go , crap as they are.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    Yet they withdrew from Kyiv, when they were on its very borders (the comparisons with Germany at the gates of Moscow should not be missed).

    And do they have those large numbers any more? Do the demographics suit Russia, as they once did? And is there the political will to go for a vast call-up of the population? Do they have the equipment to equip those troops properly?
    Military scholar Dr Mike Martin has been spot on about most aspects of this war so far. He was one of the first to call that Russia would fail with its main assault.

    Good thread this. He lays out why Russia are unlikely to win new ground and the steps needed on the Ukrainian side to precipitate a Russian military collapse.

    https://twitter.com/threshedthought/status/1512787305416769536?s=21

    Conclusion:

    “This is phase two of the war. It will take about a month to play out - so by ‘victory’ day parade in Moscow.

    But it may not turn out how the Russians think. The momentum is with the Ukrainians. I think they’ll kick the Russians out.

    But they’ll lose 100k civilians doing it.”
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    I don't think they have the numbers any more. This isnt 1812 or 1941.
    The #Russians cannot expect to benefit from the roughly 200,000 conscripts and reservists they are currently mobilizing until late summer or fall at the earliest.

    https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1512915118660546560
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    From the latest ISW report:

    "We assess that the Russian military will struggle to amass a large and combat-capable force of mechanized units to operate in Donbas within the next few months. Russia will likely continue to throw badly damaged and partially reconstituted units piecemeal into offensive operations that make limited gains at great cost.[1] The Russians likely will make gains nevertheless and may either trap or wear down Ukrainian forces enough to secure much of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, but it is at least equally likely that these Russian offensives will culminate before reaching their objectives, as similar Russian operations have done."

    https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9

    Reading that entire report, it seems that Russia is very much on the back foot.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Really surprised to see the results of this poll. I'm a middle aged guy living in the west Midlands. I know we shouldn-t use anecdotes to judge national opinion but I know no one absolutely no one who feels that restrictions were lifted too soon

    Went to a memorial service yesterday. Chap had died in March 2020; not sure if it was Covid.Didn't LOOK as if people thought restrictions had been lifted too soon; everyone was behaving as they would have pre-Covid, but with one exception. The pandemic was very often mentioned, and it seemed that many people had quite recently tested positive, and felt ill.
    The poll yesterday I think might be indicative of feelings was in the Observer; it says that young (under 35) adults think that 'donors to political parties and big businesses are now ..... the main drivers of government policy.'
    Even among older people the split as to whether the system is working well is no better than evens.

    I have to admit that there's little comparison with the past..... was it always thus?

    That's a big opportunity for some sort of anti-democrat.
    When a government is loathed as much as this one with a Prime Minister no one believes or trusts all sorts of anti government opinions form. 'That government policy is thought to be driven by donors and big business' doesn't surprise me at all. When you don't believe the government's motivation you can believe black is white.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    Yet they withdrew from Kyiv, when they were on its very borders (the comparisons with Germany at the gates of Moscow should not be missed).

    And do they have those large numbers any more? Do the demographics suit Russia, as they once did? And is there the political will to go for a vast call-up of the population? Do they have the equipment to equip those troops properly?
    Military scholar Dr Mike Martin has been spot on about most aspects of this war so far. He was one of the first to call that Russia would fail with its main assault.

    Good thread this. He lays out why Russia are unlikely to win new ground and the steps needed on the Ukrainian side to precipitate a Russian military collapse.

    https://twitter.com/threshedthought/status/1512787305416769536?s=21

    Conclusion:

    “This is phase two of the war. It will take about a month to play out - so by ‘victory’ day parade in Moscow.

    But it may not turn out how the Russians think. The momentum is with the Ukrainians. I think they’ll kick the Russians out.

    But they’ll lose 100k civilians doing it.”
    From what we've seen, they'll lost 100k or more civilians if Russia takes over their country.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,588
    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    Yet they withdrew from Kyiv, when they were on its very borders (the comparisons with Germany at the gates of Moscow should not be missed).

    And do they have those large numbers any more? Do the demographics suit Russia, as they once did? And is there the political will to go for a vast call-up of the population? Do they have the equipment to equip those troops properly?
    Military scholar Dr Mike Martin has been spot on about most aspects of this war so far. He was one of the first to call that Russia would fail with its main assault.

    Good thread this. He lays out why Russia are unlikely to win new ground and the steps needed on the Ukrainian side to precipitate a Russian military collapse.

    https://twitter.com/threshedthought/status/1512787305416769536?s=21

    Conclusion:

    “This is phase two of the war. It will take about a month to play out - so by ‘victory’ day parade in Moscow.

    But it may not turn out how the Russians think. The momentum is with the Ukrainians. I think they’ll kick the Russians out.

    But they’ll lose 100k civilians doing it.”
    Though they will lose at least as many Ukranian civilians if they fail to do it. A great piece here from Snyder on what "denazification" means in Russia: genocide of Ukranians.

    ""denazification" in official Russian usage just means the destruction of the Ukrainian state and nation.  A "Nazi," as the genocide manual explains, is simply a human being who self-identifies as Ukrainian."

    https://t.co/ZZTJqpSTdJ
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    Yet they withdrew from Kyiv, when they were on its very borders (the comparisons with Germany at the gates of Moscow should not be missed).

    And do they have those large numbers any more? Do the demographics suit Russia, as they once did? And is there the political will to go for a vast call-up of the population? Do they have the equipment to equip those troops properly?
    Military scholar Dr Mike Martin has been spot on about most aspects of this war so far. He was one of the first to call that Russia would fail with its main assault.

    Good thread this. He lays out why Russia are unlikely to win new ground and the steps needed on the Ukrainian side to precipitate a Russian military collapse.

    https://twitter.com/threshedthought/status/1512787305416769536?s=21

    Conclusion:

    “This is phase two of the war. It will take about a month to play out - so by ‘victory’ day parade in Moscow.

    But it may not turn out how the Russians think. The momentum is with the Ukrainians. I think they’ll kick the Russians out.

    But they’ll lose 100k civilians doing it.”
    From what we've seen, they'll lost 100k or more civilians if Russia takes over their country.
    Yes I think Putin has gone full Daenerys and would kill millIons in Ukraine if he had a consequence free opportunity. Good job he doesn’t.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    FTPT

    To expand on a point I hinted at below: these AIs are sexist.

    Enter 'nurse with gun', and you get images of women (well, sort-of, given how bad the AI is - but they don't look male).

    Enter 'firefighter with child' and you get a man (although in this case, they look more like the product of a drunken Edvard Munch).

    Yet the more interesting answers are when you get a male nurse, or a female firefighter.

    There is a real issue with 'AIs' from real-world datasets stereotyping people wrongly by gender or race because of dataset bias.

    Too many AIs encode bias.

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/ai-machine-learning-bias-discrimination/
    https://www.ibm.com/blogs/journey-to-ai/2022/02/we-must-check-for-racial-bias-in-our-machine-learning-models/

    That makes no sense. Where's the 'dataset bias'? The dataset reflects reality. Most nurses are women. Most firefighters are men.You seem to be wanting the AI algorithm to act like a corporate PR department, choosing the pictures to fake some quotas which don't actually correspond with reality.
    Dataset bias is a well-known issue in the AI world, which has already had disturbing consequences.

    I don't want that. But let us take an example. You have an AI that scans through resumes to 'pick' the best candidates for a nursing home. The current dataset is filled with women, but there is zero reason that a man could not do the job. The AI looks at recorded job performance - or even those who have been hired before - and chooses based on characteristics that have nothing to do with the job, yet disadvantages men.

    Ditto race, age, etc. It's another variant of GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out.

    To go onto one of Leon's favourite topics: what will kill people is people having a faith in flawed AI systems because AI is 'cool'

    Here are some links:
    https://www.telusinternational.com/articles/7-types-of-data-bias-in-machine-learning
    https://news.mit.edu/2022/machine-learning-biased-data-0221
    Don't even need to talk theoretically about the hiring example. Amazon famously had to ditch their AI hiring tool because it was sexist. It downgraded women's CVs. Feed it two otherwise identical CVs but indicate the candidate was a women in a sentence (say "captain of women's chess club" rather than just "captain of chess club" ) and the women mentioning one would get a significantly lower score.

    This is because the dataset Amazon used to train the tool was... Amazon's past hiring decisions - which were sexist and biased against women.

    AI tools are slaves to their datasets. Put a biased data set in snd you will get biased decisions out.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    How does adding an extra 1,000 km of border with NATO get sold by Putin as a grisly marginal win, when Finland joins?

    And just a reminder, you heaped ridicule on the numbers of "kills" the Ukrainians were claiming. They now appear to be verified as ball-park correct. If anyone is grinding out a grisly marginal win, it currently looks to be Ukraine.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    edited April 2022

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    When did Russia/USSR last lose so many men in a war?

    I’m sure they didn’t in Syria or Chechnya.. Afghanistan? I thought the numbers there were similar to Ukraine so far, but over years. And they lost there and some say it led to the fall of the USSR.

    So do we go back 80 odd years to WW2. Which was beating the Nazis. I wouldn’t say they “pointlessly” died then.
    Depends on how you define 'pointless.' Yes, they were winning a war against a uniquely evil regime. One which, remarkably, was even worse than their own.

    However, very often they died because of the callousness and incompetence of their generals, who hurled enormous numbers of men at defended positions on the calculation that some at least would survive and get through. A little like Grant's calculation in 1864, but on a scale of millions. The German army could have been overwhelmed at far lower cost with a little more planning and care.

    The irony is that the British WWI generals so beloved of Marxist historiography (and, oddly, Alan Clark) in the 1960s were actually largely a myth, but that myth could easily have been applied to the Soviet generals of World War Two with perfect accuracy.

    Zhukov in particular could have been a model for Pratchett's analysis of Ronnie Rust's generalship: 'military doctrine states the key principle of any battle is there should be massive casualties. If they were on the other side, this was regarded as a valuable bonus.'

    So arguably, many of their deaths were pointless.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited April 2022

    From the latest ISW report:

    "We assess that the Russian military will struggle to amass a large and combat-capable force of mechanized units to operate in Donbas within the next few months. Russia will likely continue to throw badly damaged and partially reconstituted units piecemeal into offensive operations that make limited gains at great cost.[1] The Russians likely will make gains nevertheless and may either trap or wear down Ukrainian forces enough to secure much of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, but it is at least equally likely that these Russian offensives will culminate before reaching their objectives, as similar Russian operations have done."

    https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9

    Reading that entire report, it seems that Russia is very much on the back foot.

    You were born too late. You could have drooled over battles to your hearts content 80 years ago and it wouldn't have sounded nearly as perverted
  • Options
    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    Millions of views on social media already. Quite a few in Russia I bet. Must stick in your throat that.
    Good morning

    Sky report this morning should make us proud for once of Boris's visit to Ukraine and our role in their defence

    I understand why some have such a viserreal dislike of Boris, but for today anyway I believe he has been a credit to our country
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    To expand on a point I hinted at below: these AIs are sexist.

    Enter 'nurse with gun', and you get images of women (well, sort-of, given how bad the AI is - but they don't look male).

    Enter 'firefighter with child' and you get a man (although in this case, they look more like the product of a drunken Edvard Munch).

    Yet the more interesting answers are when you get a male nurse, or a female firefighter.

    There is a real issue with 'AIs' from real-world datasets stereotyping people wrongly by gender or race because of dataset bias.

    Too many AIs encode bias.

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/ai-machine-learning-bias-discrimination/
    https://www.ibm.com/blogs/journey-to-ai/2022/02/we-must-check-for-racial-bias-in-our-machine-learning-models/

    That makes no sense. Where's the 'dataset bias'? The dataset reflects reality. Most nurses are women. Most firefighters are men.You seem to be wanting the AI algorithm to act like a corporate PR department, choosing the pictures to fake some quotas which don't actually correspond with reality.
    Dataset bias is a well-known issue in the AI world, which has already had disturbing consequences.

    I don't want that. But let us take an example. You have an AI that scans through resumes to 'pick' the best candidates for a nursing home. The current dataset is filled with women, but there is zero reason that a man could not do the job. The AI looks at recorded job performance - or even those who have been hired before - and chooses based on characteristics that have nothing to do with the job, yet disadvantages men.

    Ditto race, age, etc. It's another variant of GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out.

    To go onto one of Leon's favourite topics: what will kill people is people having a faith in flawed AI systems because AI is 'cool'

    Here are some links:
    https://www.telusinternational.com/articles/7-types-of-data-bias-in-machine-learning
    https://news.mit.edu/2022/machine-learning-biased-data-0221
    Don't even need to talk theoretically about the hiring example. Amazon famously had to ditch their AI hiring tool because it was sexist. It downgraded women's CVs. Feed it two otherwise identical CVs but indicate the candidate was a women in a sentence (say "captain of women's chess club" rather than just "captain of chess club" ) and the women mentioning one would get a significantly lower score.

    This is because the dataset Amazon used to train the tool was... Amazon's past hiring decisions - which were sexist and biased against women.

    AI tools are slaves to their datasets. Put a biased data set in snd you will get biased decisions out.
    There was also a problem with an 'AI' that was used by a US court system for sentencing.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/01/21/137783/algorithms-criminal-justice-ai/
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    Sickening that as Putin inflicts brutal genocide on the Ukrainian people one of his avowed supporters could soon become President of France in a free and fair election. I think too much of the French to believe it will happen, but even that it could is horrific.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    How does adding an extra 1,000 km of border with NATO get sold by Putin as a grisly marginal win, when Finland joins?

    And just a reminder, you heaped ridicule on the numbers of "kills" the Ukrainians were claiming. They now appear to be verified as ball-park correct. If anyone is grinding out a grisly marginal win, it currently looks to be Ukraine.
    The chances of Sweden joining NATO significantly increased yesterday when Jimmie Åkesson, the leader of the anti-immigration Sweden Democrats, announced that if Finland joins NATO then he wants Sweden to join too. This a seismic change in direction. He emphasised that this was only his personal view and that he needed to drive the policy change through the normal party bodies, but what Jimmie wants Jimmie gets.

    There is now a clear parliamentary majority for NATO membership: Moderates, Sweden Democrats, Centre Party, Christian Democrats and Liberals.

    The minority governing Social Democrats are sceptical to NATO membership.

    Only the Left Party and Greens solidly against.

    Joining NATO without broad national consensus would be very un-Swedish, so all eyes are now on Magdalena Andersson.
  • Options

    Insane that anyone should be annoyed by Johnson visiting Kyiv. Demonstrating British solidarity with the Ukraine is hugely important and going there is a big part of that. Same with other visits from other European and EU leaders. It is absolutely the right thing to do. This surely goes beyond partisan politics.

    Well said

    It is a sorry spectacle to see some determined to undermine the UK
  • Options

    Sickening that as Putin inflicts brutal genocide on the Ukrainian people one of his avowed supporters could soon become President of France in a free and fair election. I think too much of the French to believe it will happen, but even that it could is horrific.

    I really hope that does not happen
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,125

    Roger said:


    From the latest ISW report:

    "We assess that the Russian military will struggle to amass a large and combat-capable force of mechanized units to operate in Donbas within the next few months. Russia will likely continue to throw badly damaged and partially reconstituted units piecemeal into offensive operations that make limited gains at great cost.[1] The Russians likely will make gains nevertheless and may either trap or wear down Ukrainian forces enough to secure much of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, but it is at least equally likely that these Russian offensives will culminate before reaching their objectives, as similar Russian operations have done."

    https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9

    Reading that entire report, it seems that Russia is very much on the back foot.

    You were born too late. You could have drooled over battles to your hearts content 80 years ago and it wouldn't have sounded nearly as perverted
    Really? That's the best attack line you could come up with?

    2/10. Try harder.
    It was a bizarre response to your post.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Insane that anyone should be annoyed by Johnson visiting Kyiv. Demonstrating British solidarity with the Ukraine is hugely important and going there is a big part of that. Same with other visits from other European and EU leaders. It is absolutely the right thing to do. This surely goes beyond partisan politics.

    For some nothing goes beyond party politics.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    What on earth are you going to do when he wins GE24
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    Millions of views on social media already. Quite a few in Russia I bet. Must stick in your throat that.
    Good morning

    Sky report this morning should make us proud for once of Boris's visit to Ukraine and our role in their defence

    I understand why some have such a viserreal dislike of Boris, but for today anyway I believe he has been a credit to our country
    I suspect by the time of the election the nation will have moved on from covid and Partygate won’t be a major factor in the outcome. Even most of his political adversaries have had the good grace to recognise he did a lot of good with that Kiev city walk.
  • Options
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    Millions of views on social media already. Quite a few in Russia I bet. Must stick in your throat that.
    Good morning

    Sky report this morning should make us proud for once of Boris's visit to Ukraine and our role in their defence

    I understand why some have such a viserreal dislike of Boris, but for today anyway I believe he has been a credit to our country
    I suspect by the time of the election the nation will have moved on from covid and Partygate won’t be a major factor in the outcome. Even most of his political adversaries have had the good grace to recognise he did a lot of good with that Kiev city walk.
    Especially as the next GE could be as late as Autumn 24 or even later
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    felix said:

    Insane that anyone should be annoyed by Johnson visiting Kyiv. Demonstrating British solidarity with the Ukraine is hugely important and going there is a big part of that. Same with other visits from other European and EU leaders. It is absolutely the right thing to do. This surely goes beyond partisan politics.

    For some nothing goes beyond party politics.
    Including you and the other posters who think that while thousands are dying in Ukraine the only really important question in Kyiv is whether fatso's bum looks big in this photo opportunity. Atrocities = yawn.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    I hope Zelenskyy is aware of the traditional fate of friends of Johnson. Exploited, abandoned and then ignored is the usual trajectory.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Sickening that as Putin inflicts brutal genocide on the Ukrainian people one of his avowed supporters could soon become President of France in a free and fair election. I think too much of the French to believe it will happen, but even that it could is horrific.

    Either way a significant percentage of French people will vote for her. In some polls recently in Spain Vox have been within a whisker of first place. Collective judgement of a people on the basis of how some of them vote is not helpful. The post Brexit histrionics have surely shown how damaging that is. America remains very messy post Trump for similar reasons. Equally of course when the other side wins - normally by fairly small margins the same applies.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    What on earth are you going to do when he wins GE24
    Are you going to be pleased? Why?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,096

    Insane that anyone should be annoyed by Johnson visiting Kyiv. Demonstrating British solidarity with the Ukraine is hugely important and going there is a big part of that. Same with other visits from other European and EU leaders. It is absolutely the right thing to do. This surely goes beyond partisan politics.

    I think it's fantastic that he is gone to Kyiv. I'm only upset about him coming back home again.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,588
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    Millions of views on social media already. Quite a few in Russia I bet. Must stick in your throat that.
    Good morning

    Sky report this morning should make us proud for once of Boris's visit to Ukraine and our role in their defence

    I understand why some have such a viserreal dislike of Boris, but for today anyway I believe he has been a credit to our country
    I suspect by the time of the election the nation will have moved on from covid and Partygate won’t be a major factor in the outcome. Even most of his political adversaries have had the good grace to recognise he did a lot of good with that Kiev city walk.
    No, covid and partygate will remain current. Covid because of the legacy within the NHS of massive backlogs, and partygate because of its corrosive effect on belief in politicians to follow the rules. The observer report today on how people think about politics illustrates that:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/10/young-adults-loss-of-faith-in-uk-democracy-survey

  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    What on earth are you going to do when he wins GE24
    Given on his own admission he broke his own laws and lied to Parliament, I am personally going to be horrified if he does that.

    I knew he'd be bad, but the debasement of public life he's led to is far beyond anything I thought possible.
    It seems that the conservative poll rating over the last 6 weeks including post the budget has remained remarkably around 34-35%

    It would be understandable if the conservatives had plummeted to the low 30s but I suspect the combination of a general acceptance that covid and war in Ukraine are at the heart of the cost of living crisis and Starmer's lack of real inspiration

    Rishi's self inflicted political suicide has been astonishing and I expect he will shortly be gone, maybe out of UK politics returning to the US

    Fantasy maybe but what odds of Rishi going into US politics where wealth is not a negative factor
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    Insane that anyone should be annoyed by Johnson visiting Kyiv. Demonstrating British solidarity with the Ukraine is hugely important and going there is a big part of that. Same with other visits from other European and EU leaders. It is absolutely the right thing to do. This surely goes beyond partisan politics.

    For some nothing goes beyond party politics.
    Including you and the other posters who think that while thousands are dying in Ukraine the only really important question in Kyiv is whether fatso's bum looks big in this photo opportunity. Atrocities = yawn.
    Ouch - I'm sorry, sad and somewhat amused by your pain.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,655
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    Millions of views on social media already. Quite a few in Russia I bet. Must stick in your throat that.
    Good morning

    Sky report this morning should make us proud for once of Boris's visit to Ukraine and our role in their defence

    I understand why some have such a viserreal dislike of Boris, but for today anyway I believe he has been a credit to our country
    I suspect by the time of the election the nation will have moved on from covid and Partygate won’t be a major factor in the outcome. Even most of his political adversaries have had the good grace to recognise he did a lot of good with that Kiev city walk.
    No, covid and partygate will remain current. Covid because of the legacy within the NHS of massive backlogs, and partygate because of its corrosive effect on belief in politicians to follow the rules. The observer report today on how people think about politics illustrates that:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/10/young-adults-loss-of-faith-in-uk-democracy-survey

    The figures there are interesting. Not least that some Tory voters still think that trade unions dominate government decision-making. I'm not sure what medical condition they have.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    What on earth are you going to do when he wins GE24
    Are you going to be pleased? Why?
    Depends entirely on the manifesto commitments of the parties
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    If that was the case, then UK countries which maintained them longer should have done better at controlling COVID. That Sturgeon has stopped comparing Scotland's performance with England tells you all you need to know.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,655

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    What on earth are you going to do when he wins GE24
    Given on his own admission he broke his own laws and lied to Parliament, I am personally going to be horrified if he does that.

    I knew he'd be bad, but the debasement of public life he's led to is far beyond anything I thought possible.
    It seems that the conservative poll rating over the last 6 weeks including post the budget has remained remarkably around 34-35%

    It would be understandable if the conservatives had plummeted to the low 30s but I suspect the combination of a general acceptance that covid and war in Ukraine are at the heart of the cost of living crisis and Starmer's lack of real inspiration

    Rishi's self inflicted political suicide has been astonishing and I expect he will shortly be gone, maybe out of UK politics returning to the US

    Fantasy maybe but what odds of Rishi going into US politics where wealth is not a negative factor
    No point. Mr Sunak is not - as far as I know - a US native. So not a hope of the Presidency. So why bother? He'd need to wait 9 years of full citizenship to be a US senator, too.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    felix said:

    Sickening that as Putin inflicts brutal genocide on the Ukrainian people one of his avowed supporters could soon become President of France in a free and fair election. I think too much of the French to believe it will happen, but even that it could is horrific.

    Either way a significant percentage of French people will vote for her. In some polls recently in Spain Vox have been within a whisker of first place. Collective judgement of a people on the basis of how some of them vote is not helpful. The post Brexit histrionics have surely shown how damaging that is. America remains very messy post Trump for similar reasons. Equally of course when the other side wins - normally by fairly small margins the same applies.

    I feel entirely free to judge those who decide to vote for a Putin apologist in the knowledge that he has inflicted genocide on Ukraine.

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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,655
    edited April 2022

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    If that was the case, then UK countries which maintained them longer should have done better at controlling COVID. That Sturgeon has stopped comparing Scotland's performance with England tells you all you need to know.
    More basic reason for that. It's impossible to make meaningful comparisons [edit], now testing has been de facto abandoned in England first.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    What on earth are you going to do when he wins GE24
    Are you going to be pleased? Why?
    Depends entirely on the manifesto commitments of the parties
    So a fat crook is fine if it's a fat crook with some decent policies?

    OK
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,655
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    What on earth are you going to do when he wins GE24
    Are you going to be pleased? Why?
    Depends entirely on the manifesto commitments of the parties
    So a fat crook is fine if it's a fat crook with some decent policies?

    OK
    What about skinny crooks? Let's be fair.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807

    Really surprised to see the results of this poll. I'm a middle aged guy living in the west Midlands. I know we shouldn-t use anecdotes to judge national opinion but I know no one absolutely no one who feels that restrictions were lifted too soon

    There is a very marked age skew:

    Too soon/ About Right / Not soon enough (net "Too Soon")

    18-24: 31 / 36 / 17 (-19)
    25-49: 38 / 36 / 15 (-13)
    50-65: 48 / 31 / 13 (+4)
    65+: 56 / 32 / 8 (+16)

    I suppose the hypothesis is "Pensioners will start voting Labour because of COVID restrictions lifted two years earlier". Hmmmmm......
    Leave supporters, OTOH, were much keener on lifting restrictions than Remain supporters, So, there must be a gigantic divergence in view between older Leavers and older Remainers.

    Overall, this is not a bad poll for the government. Broadly, 47% are on the government's side on this issue, and 44% oppose it.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    Foxy said:

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    I dont think restrictions were lifted too early, the infectivity and attenuated severity of Omicron makes masking and social distancing much less effective.

    It is the ending of testing and epidemiological surveillance at the highest point of infections that concerns me. Also the absence of any plan to manage covid going forward in terms of passive measures, such as ventilation, air filters, sick pay, NHS surge capacity etc.

    Yep, that makes a lot of sense.

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    Carnyx said:

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    If that was the case, then UK countries which maintained them longer should have done better at controlling COVID. That Sturgeon has stopped comparing Scotland's performance with England tells you all you need to know.
    More basic reason for that. It's impossible to make meaningful comparisons [edit], now testing has been de facto abandoned in England first.
    I really hope Nicola does not impose more restrictions, as we have arranged a family visit to the North of Scotland in July for the first meeting in two and a half years
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    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,204
    edited April 2022

    Sickening that as Putin inflicts brutal genocide on the Ukrainian people one of his avowed supporters could soon become President of France in a free and fair election. I think too much of the French to believe it will happen, but even that it could is horrific.

    The only consoling factor is that she’d be @Roger ’s president.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    I don' want to upset dear Roger, but the following tweet is interesting:

    "NEW: Russia is sending an 8-mi long convoy of 100s of vehicles, including armored vehicles and artillery southbound through the Ukrainian town of Velykyi Burluk.

    The convoy is moving about 60 mi east of Ukraine’s 2nd-largest city of Kharkiv, as 🇷🇺 focuses on Donbas."

    https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1513022241067446272
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
    Carnyx said:

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    If that was the case, then UK countries which maintained them longer should have done better at controlling COVID. That Sturgeon has stopped comparing Scotland's performance with England tells you all you need to know.
    More basic reason for that. It's impossible to make meaningful comparisons [edit], now testing has been de facto abandoned in England first.
    The ONS survey, which continues, always was more reliable than testing - and that was what Sturgeon based her "doing better than England" comparisons upon.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    Yet they withdrew from Kyiv, when they were on its very borders (the comparisons with Germany at the gates of Moscow should not be missed).

    And do they have those large numbers any more? Do the demographics suit Russia, as they once did? And is there the political will to go for a vast call-up of the population? Do they have the equipment to equip those troops properly?
    Military scholar Dr Mike Martin has been spot on about most aspects of this war so far. He was one of the first to call that Russia would fail with its main assault.

    Good thread this. He lays out why Russia are unlikely to win new ground and the steps needed on the Ukrainian side to precipitate a Russian military collapse.

    https://twitter.com/threshedthought/status/1512787305416769536?s=21

    Conclusion:

    “This is phase two of the war. It will take about a month to play out - so by ‘victory’ day parade in Moscow.

    But it may not turn out how the Russians think. The momentum is with the Ukrainians. I think they’ll kick the Russians out.

    But they’ll lose 100k civilians doing it.”
    Though they will lose at least as many Ukranian civilians if they fail to do it. A great piece here from Snyder on what "denazification" means in Russia: genocide of Ukranians.

    ""denazification" in official Russian usage just means the destruction of the Ukrainian state and nation.  A "Nazi," as the genocide manual explains, is simply a human being who self-identifies as Ukrainian."

    https://t.co/ZZTJqpSTdJ
    Patriarch Kyril is an especially nasty POS.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Foxy said:

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    I dont think restrictions were lifted too early, the infectivity and attenuated severity of Omicron makes masking and social distancing much less effective.

    It is the ending of testing and epidemiological surveillance at the highest point of infections that concerns me. Also the absence of any plan to manage covid going forward in terms of passive measures, such as ventilation, air filters, sick pay, NHS surge capacity etc.
    I think that's very fair. There are a lot of useful lessons that are going to be rapidly forgotten.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985



    Depends entirely on the manifesto commitments of the parties

    You'll be disappointed if you're relying on Johnson's manifesto. Any sign of that inflation + 0.5% defence spending commitment?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922

    Sickening that as Putin inflicts brutal genocide on the Ukrainian people one of his avowed supporters could soon become President of France in a free and fair election. I think too much of the French to believe it will happen, but even that it could is horrific.

    The only consoling factor is that she’d be @Roger ’s president.

    I would hope Roger ups sticks and leaves France if the people there voted to be led by Le Pen. Her manifesto explicitly promises him second class treatment if he decides to stay.

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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    felix said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    Insane that anyone should be annoyed by Johnson visiting Kyiv. Demonstrating British solidarity with the Ukraine is hugely important and going there is a big part of that. Same with other visits from other European and EU leaders. It is absolutely the right thing to do. This surely goes beyond partisan politics.

    For some nothing goes beyond party politics.
    Including you and the other posters who think that while thousands are dying in Ukraine the only really important question in Kyiv is whether fatso's bum looks big in this photo opportunity. Atrocities = yawn.
    Ouch - I'm sorry, sad and somewhat amused by your pain.
    Yes, children being raped and murdered is always good for a sardonic chortle.

    I don't dispute your right in principle to comment on UK politics from abroad, but when you descend to petty point scoring about electoral outcomes which have no effect on you personally - about 85% of your output - I'm afraid I think Yeah, right: eunuch in a brothel. And on here because your Spanish is not up to any kind of discussion.
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796

    Dura_Ace said:


    It is perfectly feasible that the Russian military may collapse, especially if they do not get foreign help.

    It's possible but highly unlikely. The Russian military culture absolutely excels at pointlessly dying in large numbers until they grind out a grisly marginal win.
    How does adding an extra 1,000 km of border with NATO get sold by Putin as a grisly marginal win, when Finland joins?

    And just a reminder, you heaped ridicule on the numbers of "kills" the Ukrainians were claiming. They now appear to be verified as ball-park correct. If anyone is grinding out a grisly marginal win, it currently looks to be Ukraine.
    The chances of Sweden joining NATO significantly increased yesterday when Jimmie Åkesson, the leader of the anti-immigration Sweden Democrats, announced that if Finland joins NATO then he wants Sweden to join too. This a seismic change in direction. He emphasised that this was only his personal view and that he needed to drive the policy change through the normal party bodies, but what Jimmie wants Jimmie gets.

    There is now a clear parliamentary majority for NATO membership: Moderates, Sweden Democrats, Centre Party, Christian Democrats and Liberals.

    The minority governing Social Democrats are sceptical to NATO membership.

    Only the Left Party and Greens solidly against.

    Joining NATO without broad national consensus would be very un-Swedish, so all eyes are now on Magdalena Andersson.
    What are the arguments against joining NATO for Finland and Sweden?
    I understand it is about not wanting to get dragged in to NATO wars of aggression.
    I can see why Sweden might think... no point, not if Finland are in NATO... no realistic way for Russia to attack Sweden, we can have the security without the commitment.
    What else... ?
    The Finnish policy towards Russia was very clever, and worked for about 75 years.
    It is Putin who made it impossible. He could have tried to court Finland rather than continually threatening it.
    Had Russia made overtures of friendship towards Finland, and just generally been a lot more careful about its foreign adventures... it would just not be in this position now, and could have had a foot in the EU.
    It is now in the position of trying to threaten Finland with 'unimaginable consequences' but he is not taken seriously, as his war in Ukraine has blunted Russian military capabilities, and revealed them to be poor.
    He comes across as an impotent old man.
    Ukraine 2022 ... feels like an own goal of Putin's making, a catastrophic misjudgement, on the level of Vietnam and Iraq.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,588

    Foxy said:

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    I dont think restrictions were lifted too early, the infectivity and attenuated severity of Omicron makes masking and social distancing much less effective.

    It is the ending of testing and epidemiological surveillance at the highest point of infections that concerns me. Also the absence of any plan to manage covid going forward in terms of passive measures, such as ventilation, air filters, sick pay, NHS surge capacity etc.

    Yep, that makes a lot of sense.

    Indeed, the government has clawed back the bit of NHS funding for covid control, even while setting new targets.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1509863824194785302?t=lo1TJhGCKlc-gbIrZVXzeQ&s=19
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,655
    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2022/apr/10/vintage-train-journeys-uk-at-risk-as-coal-supply-fails

    The problems steam trains in the UK have cos they relied on coal imports. Didn't @JosiasJessop or @SandyRentool raise this the other day?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,655
    edited April 2022

    Carnyx said:

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    If that was the case, then UK countries which maintained them longer should have done better at controlling COVID. That Sturgeon has stopped comparing Scotland's performance with England tells you all you need to know.
    More basic reason for that. It's impossible to make meaningful comparisons [edit], now testing has been de facto abandoned in England first.
    The ONS survey, which continues, always was more reliable than testing - and that was what Sturgeon based her "doing better than England" comparisons upon.
    And how can they do it if the UKG has been choking off the supply of free tests? That's going to distort the stats for anything lower than hospitalizations. Edit: We've still got free tests in Scotland, for now.
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    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    Millions of views on social media already. Quite a few in Russia I bet. Must stick in your throat that.
    Good morning

    Sky report this morning should make us proud for once of Boris's visit to Ukraine and our role in their defence

    I understand why some have such a viserreal dislike of Boris, but for today anyway I believe he has been a credit to our country
    But you are bringing party politics into this argument by eulogising Johnson.

    Hats off to BigDog for going to Kyiv (although he is not the first- your hated nemesis UVDL was there the day before) and showing British solidarity with the Ukrainian people. As the Ukrainian Government tweeted, he was very "brave", but in my book, no braver than a hatful of other European leaders who have made the same journey. If he had been holed up in the bunker with Zelenskiy marshaling Ukrainian troops during the siege of Kyiv, now that would be brave.

    Cynicism for Johnson's motives, even when he does the right thing is not being anti-British. It is a healthy skepticism for a man who has self-indulgent form in pretty much anything he does.
    I do not hate UVDL and this is not a beauty competition

    The significance of yesterday's visit, as has been commented on, is that Boris is the first G7 leader to visit and the first of the big four, of UK - US - France and Germany

    Anyway this is politics and of course some cannot give credit where it s due
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2022/apr/10/vintage-train-journeys-uk-at-risk-as-coal-supply-fails

    The problems steam trains in the UK have cos they relied on coal imports. Didn't @JosiasJessop or @SandyRentool raise this the other day?

    I've mentioned it, but would not be surprised if Sandy has as well. It's an expense. Although as mentioned in the article, there are some novel ideas, such as 'synthetic' coal, whose compositions can be tuned to individual types of engines. Apparently it used to be too expensive; but it's now getting on par with 'real' imported coal.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,157
    Carnyx said:

    On balance, restrictions were probably lifted too early. But, from a very selfish perspective, I am glad they were!

    If that was the case, then UK countries which maintained them longer should have done better at controlling COVID. That Sturgeon has stopped comparing Scotland's performance with England tells you all you need to know.
    More basic reason for that. It's impossible to make meaningful comparisons [edit], now testing has been de facto abandoned in England first.
    Going forward that will be true, less so for recent times. The ONS data will continue and show no great effect of keeping masks in some places etc. As @Foxy says the sheer contagiousnous of omicron has negated much of the ability of masks to do the job. Plus with virtually everybody having antibodies of some sort, and the slight reduction in severity of omicron wrt delta, for most Covid is no big issue. Not for all, for sure, but for most. One of the reasons attitudes have changed, and behaviour, is that so many have had Covid, have recovered and so the fear is gone. It was visceral in 2020, it’s not now, for most.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Agree with TSE. I'm one of the majority who believe restrictions were lifted too soon. In fact I think we've gone crackers on this. But then, we didn't bring in restrictions fast enough either. The NHS is on its knees right now and so are other industries. As a friend of mine comments, 'the country has gone to the dogs.' Not a reference to Big Dog.

    And now of course without free LFT's we've no knowledge of the real figures, which just perpetuates the fear. Johnson is an f-ing idiot.

    Speaking of which, he must be cross not to command the front pages. I'm surprised. Only The Observer and Express lead with his photo op trip to Ukraine.

    When everyone knows that Johnson's life is just one giant ego trip even newspapers as crass as the Sun and Mail baulk at being sucked into it
    What on earth are you going to do when he wins GE24
    Given on his own admission he broke his own laws and lied to Parliament, I am personally going to be horrified if he does that.

    I knew he'd be bad, but the debasement of public life he's led to is far beyond anything I thought possible.
    It seems that the conservative poll rating over the last 6 weeks including post the budget has remained remarkably around 34-35%

    It would be understandable if the conservatives had plummeted to the low 30s but I suspect the combination of a general acceptance that covid and war in Ukraine are at the heart of the cost of living crisis and Starmer's lack of real inspiration

    Rishi's self inflicted political suicide has been astonishing and I expect he will shortly be gone, maybe out of UK politics returning to the US

    Fantasy maybe but what odds of Rishi going into US politics where wealth is not a negative factor
    Wealth is not a negative factor here either. Sleaze is the problem. We don't like to be governed by sleazeballs. The US is more tolerant
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