Boris Johnson (39%, up 3%) has regained his lead over Keir Starmer (35%, down 1%) in terms of who Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK at this moment—the first lead we have recorded for Johnson in nine weeks.
Good poll for Johnson and not good for Sunak. Johnson is now more or less level with Sunak in preferred ratings.
Why the hell doesn't Patel order mobile pop-up offices to be sent out to handle visa applications directly where they are needed. OR simply grant temporary visas at point of entry for Ukrainian passport holders?
Why the hell doesn't Patel order mobile pop-up offices to be sent out to handle visa applications directly where they are needed. OR simply grant temporary visas at point of entry for Ukrainian passport holders?
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
The issue we have with most immigrants is that they intentionally destroy any paperwork they have.
Here it should be incredibly simple, show a Ukrainian Passport and all the confirmation needed is contained within it.
Patel and others really are showing exactly what they are made of - racist, xenophobic idiots...
The Home Office is stuck in a mould where lots of people want to cheat to get into the UK. They don't have the intellectual flexibility to change to a different mode of thinking. It's not exactly xenophobic and definitely not racist.
While that's true, Ms Patel could suspend the requirement for Ukrainians to have a visa to enter the UK with immediate effect.
She has chosen not to.
(FWIW, she will - I'm sure - change tack on this because it is politically unpopular. However we should have been on the front foot with this.)
At which point the media and Eurozealots will start whinging about the edge cases...
My point is that there is something that she is empowered to do, that she has chosen not to do.
Indeed. But my point is that she has no incentive to do it.
The point is that the Tory party wouldn't look like the bunch of racist xenophobic bureaucratic utterly incompetent hypocrites.
As can be amply demonstrated by this poster at Calais
Andy Lines @andylines The shocking poster that greets Ukraine refugees arriving here in Calais. Appears to be absolutely no official British help on the ground for these traumatised people. The wonderful volunteers of @Care4Calais are doing their best to help.
.
This is the absolute prime example of a story where you see the image and go "yes, and ... ?"
It's not heartless. It's not shocking. It's not racist. It's not xenophobic
At the very, very worst, and that's a push, it is bureaucratic and, in fact, competent.
However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.
There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche
Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.
And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.
Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"
It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
Not as many as when the line was used with her dad. Getting 40 or thereabouts would be progress, but clear the Le Pens have gone as far as they can.
I think you - like most people - miss just how far Le Pen has moved the FN towards the centre. It's no coincidence that Zemmour and Dupont-Aignan started hoovering up votes - it's because of how far the FN has tacked.
Ms Le Pen threw her own father out the party. She started a (pretty successful) campaign to get a more diverse set of candidates from multi-ethnic backgrounds. She abandoned her support for a Euro-referendum, and now says France's membership of the EU and the Euro is "settled". She even took a trip to Davos.
Today, what distinguishes her most from Macron or Pecresse is simply that she wants the French government to go around subsidising inefficient French heavy industry. A policy which - sadly - misdiagnoses what is wrong with the French economy.
No, I get she has moved toward the centre, her kicking her dad out was a bold move, one of many. But even before this Putin business she wasn't expected to come that close to winning, so she seems to have maxed out.
I agree with Leon. The German re-armament program represents a more significant challenge to the French world view than it does the British. To the French, a sense of equals is required, whereas the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent, and we are a long way from that. You can call that simplistic, but sometimes, things are simple.
What do you mean with "the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent"?
I'm British so I'm keen to see if I relate to it.
I don't think individual Britons really have this as an intended outcome. It's too abstract. But British foreign policy going back at least to Napoleon has been to try to prevent any one continental power in Europe becoming too powerful - typically by alliances with or support for the continent's second most powerful power. In the early twentieth century the entente cordiale was arguably more driven by the fact that Britain and France represented similar political cultures, in contrast to that of Germany and Austria-Hungary. Though we did end up with Russia on our side too.
It's quite startling that @kinabalu is apparently unaware of this extremely well-known history
As I've said before, he's a bright guy with a notably narrow mind, settled contentedly in his views
Unfair. Not so much the "bright" bit but that I have a narrow mind. It's the opposite. Ok, so I'm no history buff, I'm about numbers and probabilities and the meaning of life, but what I'm doing here is questioning the extent to which these old chestnuts (about what drives different nations) really inform what is happening today. Because there's *so* much tosh talked about what various nations are all about, isn't there? I mean, have you heard that Russian bloke, Vladimir Putin? Jeez what a load of tripe.
Could PB Brexitories speculating about the angst the French might feel about Germany rearming and donning the EU trousers be described as projection? It's almost like they wish they were back in the EU so they could rant about it.
This is good though. Nice twist on PB Tories. Needs to get an 'always wrong' in, to really hammer it home.
7/10, room for improvement but not a bad first effort.
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
The issue we have with most immigrants is that they intentionally destroy any paperwork they have.
Here it should be incredibly simple, show a Ukrainian Passport and all the confirmation needed is contained within it.
Patel and others really are showing exactly what they are made of - racist, xenophobic idiots...
The Home Office is stuck in a mould where lots of people want to cheat to get into the UK. They don't have the intellectual flexibility to change to a different mode of thinking. It's not exactly xenophobic and definitely not racist.
While that's true, Ms Patel could suspend the requirement for Ukrainians to have a visa to enter the UK with immediate effect.
She has chosen not to.
(FWIW, she will - I'm sure - change tack on this because it is politically unpopular. However we should have been on the front foot with this.)
At which point the media and Eurozealots will start whinging about the edge cases...
My point is that there is something that she is empowered to do, that she has chosen not to do.
Indeed. But my point is that she has no incentive to do it.
The point is that the Tory party wouldn't look like the bunch of racist xenophobic bureaucratic utterly incompetent hypocrites.
As can be amply demonstrated by this poster at Calais
Andy Lines @andylines The shocking poster that greets Ukraine refugees arriving here in Calais. Appears to be absolutely no official British help on the ground for these traumatised people. The wonderful volunteers of @Care4Calais are doing their best to help.
.
This is the absolute prime example of a story where you see the image and go "yes, and ... ?"
It's not heartless. It's not shocking. It's not racist. It's not xenophobic
At the very, very worst, and that's a push, it is bureaucratic and, in fact, competent.
Nonsense.
What would you think if you got to Calais and tried to fill in a passenger locator form, to find you had to go to Paris to get one?
"On Saturday, Russia’s state airline, Aeroflot, said that it would suspend all international flights because of “additional circumstances that prevent the performance of flights.” Domestic flights are sure to follow.
Russia spans 11 time zones. If this persists, the grip of the Russian central government over the Russian landmass could begin to loosen. In the Russian Far East there are a lot of cities closer to Beijing than Moscow. Just saying … "
The initial suspension probably has an awful lot more to do with ensuring Aeroflot's planes aren't reclaimed when they land outside Russia rather than an issue with spares. Aeroflot leases the planes, it does seem to own them.
Spares and the lack of them will come a problem later.
Yep, you don’t want to land a leased plane anywhere the lease company might turn up with a court order, or the airport might have an unpaid bill that needs settling in hard currency.
You can see why Ol' One-Note sticks to mindlessly repeating tweets.
No. He's right. This is soft denial of visas by making it pointlessly difficult to get one, in the hope people will have run out of money and hope and enthusiasm in Calais to the extent they don't make it to Paris. Which is cruel.
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
The issue we have with most immigrants is that they intentionally destroy any paperwork they have.
Here it should be incredibly simple, show a Ukrainian Passport and all the confirmation needed is contained within it.
Patel and others really are showing exactly what they are made of - racist, xenophobic idiots...
The Home Office is stuck in a mould where lots of people want to cheat to get into the UK. They don't have the intellectual flexibility to change to a different mode of thinking. It's not exactly xenophobic and definitely not racist.
While that's true, Ms Patel could suspend the requirement for Ukrainians to have a visa to enter the UK with immediate effect.
She has chosen not to.
(FWIW, she will - I'm sure - change tack on this because it is politically unpopular. However we should have been on the front foot with this.)
At which point the media and Eurozealots will start whinging about the edge cases...
My point is that there is something that she is empowered to do, that she has chosen not to do.
Indeed. But my point is that she has no incentive to do it.
The point is that the Tory party wouldn't look like the bunch of racist xenophobic bureaucratic utterly incompetent hypocrites.
As can be amply demonstrated by this poster at Calais
Andy Lines @andylines The shocking poster that greets Ukraine refugees arriving here in Calais. Appears to be absolutely no official British help on the ground for these traumatised people. The wonderful volunteers of @Care4Calais are doing their best to help.
.
This is the absolute prime example of a story where you see the image and go "yes, and ... ?"
It's not heartless. It's not shocking. It's not racist. It's not xenophobic
At the very, very worst, and that's a push, it is bureaucratic and, in fact, competent.
It is definitely and clearly heartless. It is shocking only to those not already aware of how heartless the Home Office and Home Secretary are. I don't think it is racist, probably is xenophobic.
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
Ah, there you go again, pretending that the situation of people in Ukraine trying to get into Poland is identical to people in France trying to get into the UK.
Every country in Europe, not just Poland.
If you think the forrin should be kept away that's fine - Patel is doing this for you. Some of us have humanity still.
No she isn't. She has completely failed to stop immigration. We haven't even got to the point of being able to distinguish between the immigrants we want and the immigrants we don't.
Listen to Sir Edward Leigh. A stack of people don't want *any* immigrants. At all.
That’s true, but they are a tiny minority.
They way you go on about this, and normally you’re pretty level headed, is as if we’re an island of Tommy Robinson’s which we clearly are not.
RP is a negative nationalist. He is simply incapable of seeing the UK in a positive light.
Boris signalling a review of UK energy supply and in particular the granting of licences for UK own oil and gas development
Cambo ?
In policy terms, the tories seem much keener to claw back Reform's 4% than they do Labour's 40%.
Economic reality
The hit that household finances are going to take from inflation, taxation and energy costs over the next year is being very underestimated as a political issue, in my view.
I totally disagree with you Misty. It was set to be awkward for the Conservatives, but all the pain on UK households it can all be bundled in as Putin’s fault now, and unavoidable and can’t be mitigated in the circumstances.
Not a single fool will rise in any part of the commons and ask for the tax increases to be scrapped or delayed now, money needs to be found to bolster defence budget and fight Putin economically.
If only we were going to bolster the defence budget.
Given how crap the MoD is at getting value for money on defence projects - I'm quite happy that we aren't rushing to spend money today.
Let's work out exactly what modern day warfare looks like and work from there (no need for tanks but tractors seem useful).
Should get @Dura_Ace on the case. Certainly knows his stuff.
I agree with Leon. The German re-armament program represents a more significant challenge to the French world view than it does the British. To the French, a sense of equals is required, whereas the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent, and we are a long way from that. You can call that simplistic, but sometimes, things are simple.
What do you mean with "the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent"?
I'm British so I'm keen to see if I relate to it.
I don't think individual Britons really have this as an intended outcome. It's too abstract. But British foreign policy going back at least to Napoleon has been to try to prevent any one continental power in Europe becoming too powerful - typically by alliances with or support for the continent's second most powerful power. In the early twentieth century the entente cordiale was arguably more driven by the fact that Britain and France represented similar political cultures, in contrast to that of Germany and Austria-Hungary. Though we did end up with Russia on our side too.
It's quite startling that @kinabalu is apparently unaware of this extremely well-known history
As I've said before, he's a bright guy with a notably narrow mind, settled contentedly in his views
Unfair. Not so much the "bright" bit but that I have a narrow mind. It's the opposite. Ok, so I'm no history buff, I'm about numbers and probabilities and the meaning of life, but what I'm doing here is questioning the extent to which these old chestnuts (about what drives different nations) really inform what is happening today. Because there's *so* much tosh talked about what various nations are all about, isn't there? I mean, have you heard that Russian bloke, Vladimir Putin? Jeez what a load of tripe.
Could PB Brexitories speculating about the angst the French might feel about Germany rearming and donning the EU trousers be described as projection? It's almost like they wish they were back in the EU so they could rant about it.
Could be. Could also be - I wager - a rubbing of the hands at the prospect of the EU's 2 most powerful nations falling out and bringing about a Frexit, apres which a deluge, an Itexit and a Spexit and so on & so forth until the whole ungodly enterprise of locking in peace and co-operation in Europe (ex Russia) is doomed.
However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.
There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche
Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.
And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.
Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"
It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
Not as many as when the line was used with her dad. Getting 40 or thereabouts would be progress, but clear the Le Pens have gone as far as they can.
I think you - like most people - miss just how far Le Pen has moved the FN towards the centre. It's no coincidence that Zemmour and Dupont-Aignan started hoovering up votes - it's because of how far the FN has tacked.
Ms Le Pen threw her own father out the party. She started a (pretty successful) campaign to get a more diverse set of candidates from multi-ethnic backgrounds. She abandoned her support for a Euro-referendum, and now says France's membership of the EU and the Euro is "settled". She even took a trip to Davos.
Today, what distinguishes her most from Macron or Pecresse is simply that she wants the French government to go around subsidising inefficient French heavy industry. A policy which - sadly - misdiagnoses what is wrong with the French economy.
No, I get she has moved toward the centre, her kicking her dad out was a bold move, one of many. But even before this Putin business she wasn't expected to come that close to winning, so she seems to have maxed out.
Though if she comes a clear second this time with about 40-45% in the runoff, then given Macron cannot run for a 3rd term in 2027 under France's constitution she is in prime position for the next presidential election unless Les Republicains can identify a half decent candidate instead. En Marche I expect will fade once Macron goes
Boris signalling a review of UK energy supply and in particular the granting of licences for UK own oil and gas development
Cambo ?
In policy terms, the tories seem much keener to claw back Reform's 4% than they do Labour's 40%.
Economic reality
The hit that household finances are going to take from inflation, taxation and energy costs over the next year is being very underestimated as a political issue, in my view.
I totally disagree with you Misty. It was set to be awkward for the Conservatives, but all the pain on UK households it can all be bundled in as Putin’s fault now, and unavoidable and can’t be mitigated in the circumstances.
Not a single fool will rise in any part of the commons and ask for the tax increases to be scrapped or delayed now, money needs to be found to bolster defence budget and fight Putin economically.
If only we were going to bolster the defence budget.
Given how crap the MoD is at getting value for money on defence projects - I'm quite happy that we aren't rushing to spend money today.
Let's work out exactly what modern day warfare looks like and work from there (no need for tanks but tractors seem useful).
Should get @Dura_Ace on the case. Certainly knows his stuff.
Think we might just end up with a lot of very fast cars and bikes, with an extremely well paid test driver.
"On Saturday, Russia’s state airline, Aeroflot, said that it would suspend all international flights because of “additional circumstances that prevent the performance of flights.” Domestic flights are sure to follow.
Russia spans 11 time zones. If this persists, the grip of the Russian central government over the Russian landmass could begin to loosen. In the Russian Far East there are a lot of cities closer to Beijing than Moscow. Just saying … "
The initial suspension probably has an awful lot more to do with ensuring Aeroflot's planes aren't reclaimed when they land outside Russia rather than an issue with spares. Aeroflot leases the planes, it does seem to own them.
Spares and the lack of them will come a problem later.
Yep, you don’t want to land a leased plane anywhere the lease company might turn up with a court order, or the airport might have an unpaid bill that needs settling in hard currency.
Airlines are also responsible for the payment of landing charges, in local currency. So the cost of landing a plane in, say, Heathrow - even were it possible - has effectively now doubled.
Boris Johnson (39%, up 3%) has regained his lead over Keir Starmer (35%, down 1%) in terms of who Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK at this moment—the first lead we have recorded for Johnson in nine weeks.
Good poll for Johnson and not good for Sunak. Johnson is now more or less level with Sunak in preferred ratings.
Yes, Johnson has a 4% lead over Starmer as preferred PM now while Sunak only has a 2% lead over Starmer.
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
Ah, there you go again, pretending that the situation of people in Ukraine trying to get into Poland is identical to people in France trying to get into the UK.
Every country in Europe, not just Poland.
If you think the forrin should be kept away that's fine - Patel is doing this for you. Some of us have humanity still.
No she isn't. She has completely failed to stop immigration. We haven't even got to the point of being able to distinguish between the immigrants we want and the immigrants we don't.
Listen to Sir Edward Leigh. A stack of people don't want *any* immigrants. At all.
That’s true, but they are a tiny minority.
They way you go on about this, and normally you’re pretty level headed, is as if we’re an island of Tommy Robinson’s which we clearly are not.
RP is a negative nationalist. He is simply incapable of seeing the UK in a positive light.
Given the industrial sector he works in I can see why he is unusually pessimistic.
When we still have cretins like Sir Edward Leigh in the commons saying that his constituents are sick of the forrin
I stopped reading there. Grow up and stop embarrassing yourself.
I'm interested to know what is "embarrassing" about criticising Edward Leigh's crass intervention in the Commons. I provide a link for anyone who so wishes to recap his spectacularly selfish position. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-60586403.amp
Referring to immigrants as "forrin" is embarrassing.
Without wishing to put words in his mouth, I think he is mocking Edward Leigh. Which seems reasonable.
He's been using the word for at least a week.
Ha, he’s been using it for ages.
Possibly. I only really started noticing it last weekend.
To be fair to him, that aside, he’s usually got some interesting stuff to say and does contribute a fair bit.
Indeed, which is why it's a shame he's so unhinged on this topic.
I am not sure quite how you think Rochdale is 'unhinged'.
Using silly non-words like that to look down on people is unhinged. It's the same as people who used "Bliar", "Camoron", etc.
No it really isn't. It is deserved mockery. All the more so because it is not even attacking them personally - as the Bliar and Camoron examples were - but is attacking their offensive and ludicrous ideas. Such ideas deserve no protection from scorn.
Once you've used the same non-word 50 times - and let's face it, because it's a non-word he's using it to attack their intelligence and humanity, not their ideas - it's unhinged.
And he doesn't just use it to attack the Leighs of this world - of whom there are very few in the country - he uses it to attack anyone who dares think that having some sort of controls on immigration is a good idea.
Nope he doesn't. That is simply a lie. Now if you were referring to me - who does think we should have an open door policy - then you might be justified in making that claim. But Rochdale has never expressed such views. Indeed to me he is something of a right wing reactionary.
I am? Blimey...!
Only on this particular subject. You are a loony leftie on most other things
If it goes up that much in one election it can go down. The area was trending Tory, but I don't think he is as safe as that majority suggests.
Was first time incumbency still a factor in 1997 for Tories and 2010 for Labour MPs? Not that it would be necessarily a direct parallel as there were many more new Tory MPs in 2019 than in 1992 (or Labour in 2005).
Boris signalling a review of UK energy supply and in particular the granting of licences for UK own oil and gas development
Cambo ?
In policy terms, the tories seem much keener to claw back Reform's 4% than they do Labour's 40%.
Economic reality
The hit that household finances are going to take from inflation, taxation and energy costs over the next year is being very underestimated as a political issue, in my view.
I totally disagree with you Misty. It was set to be awkward for the Conservatives, but all the pain on UK households it can all be bundled in as Putin’s fault now, and unavoidable and can’t be mitigated in the circumstances.
Not a single fool will rise in any part of the commons and ask for the tax increases to be scrapped or delayed now, money needs to be found to bolster defence budget and fight Putin economically.
If only we were going to bolster the defence budget.
If they say that is what the money will help with as well as NHS backlog, is MP Rochdale daft enough to vote against?
Cost of living crisis completely neutralised now in political terms by Putin’s war on the West.
In what way is it neutralised? Looking on normals forums like Pistonheads there is deep alarm about the price of road fuel, heating fuel, gas and electric. Plus supermarket prices starting to get noticed.
This isn't about party political wrangling between red and blue, this is a lot of people already struggling facing down huge increases in bills they can't afford to pay. Understanding why it is happening doesn't produce the cash to make it happen.
Because cost of living crisis next two years is Putin’s fault, he’s put his hand up to own it, no fault of any UK politicians, it’s unavoidable.
You shouldn’t even be asking that, I gave you example that proves it. A few weeks ago MPs of all sides were calling for tax increases dropped - you COULDN’T even vote for that now, MP ROCHDALE there’s a war to be funded, economic sanctions to be paid for.
Sure, but that's the party political side. I'm talking about the real world side. People were facing into the difficulty of keeping up with rising energy bills with food and stuff to follow suit. Lots of calls - increasingly from Tory MPs - to cancel the thumping tax rise planned for next month to make it even worse.
So now we have the war, and the price inflation is really letting rip. We may get less political pressure but the real world pressure will be so much worse. It may be Putin's fault but a year or two down the line people won't care.
We have to agree to disagree on political side of it, whilst Putin gets blame for hardship the UK government won’t, in fact the money they now find to help will look like a blessing not a pittance whilst we are fighting economic war.
As regards to the reality of hardship, I will go further than you, it was already going to be the worst crunch in decades even without the war on top. One of the hopeful forecasts was for inflation to drop away quickly and not linger too high too long degrading wages, an increase in which would further fuel inflation - inflation dropping away below 3 and 4 soon has to look less hopeful now. The other problem you might not have realised is the push this week not to have any Russian oil, because quite obviously you are paying him money when you are supposed to be making him broke. But the impact on no Russian oil will be huge on the UK, the costs we would have to pay for fuel, and the threat on supply will be hard for us.
Makes me think when our leaders talk up a long game they have fingers crossed behind our backs not just hoping but trying for a short war.
Watching this business over the refugees I am continually harking back in my memory to the fuss we had when Amin kicked the Asians out of Uganda. No, they could go somewhere else. No this, no that, but first of all the Heath government was positive about them coming and but they actually arrived here we found them homes and, those who needed them, jobs. And financially some at least were a lot better off than the Ukrainians will be.
The one great thing about days like today's is that you instantly discover the posters without a single ounce of humanity (or common sense) in them.
Oh, hell, if it were me I would open the doors to anyone with a Ukrainian passport (though that gives problems with Ukrainian residents who don't have such passports). But there's a reason why I'm not in government and it's important to analyse why the decisions that have been made have been made - and chucking around allegations of heartlessness or racism doesn't help with that.
Ukrainian refugees stuck in Calais tell me there’s a gap as wide as the English Channel between the supportive rhetoric of the UK government and their experience on the ground. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60652914
If it goes up that much in one election it can go down. The area was trending Tory, but I don't think he is as safe as that majority suggests.
Was first time incumbency still a factor in 1997 for Tories and 2010 for Labour MPs? Not that it would be necessarily a direct parallel as there were many more new Tory MPs in 2019 than in 1992 (or Labour in 2005).
Depends on the national result I think. If Labour was 5% ahead nationally, it could still swing back.
I'm not sure who's right in this ongoing and lengthy debate about refugees at Calais, but I do know it is intensely fucking tedious, to the point of decadence
Regarding peacekeeping in Ukraine Macron has achieved nothing so far. The rising commodities prices hitting French consumers will take its tall on his re-election odds
What peace is there to keep in Ukraine, exactly?
Preventing war was a lost cause, but going to Moscow to have a go at that was a sensible thing to try.
so what exactly Macron has achieved there?
UPDATE 3-SocGen warns it could be stripped of Russian business
* French bank has $20 billion of Russia exposure. This is a clear political liability for him
And yet Macron's polling has gone up since the start of the Ukraine crisis. In mid-February, he was on 24-25% in the polls, and now he's 29-30%.
So, when you say "political liability", do you mean "great thing for his polling"?
The polling is absurd. I expect the polling figures to change dramatically in early April. What exactly has Macron won for France? Ukrainian refuges ? sky-high gas prices? the possibility of a nuclear conflict/incident in Europe?
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not true.
Also - don't you perhaps think that Vladimir Putin is responsible for the Ukrainian refugees, rather than Emmanuel Macron?
Macron is weak, that's why Putin attacked. If the French prefer to see Macron as a hero and great administrator, well, let's see...
So, Putin attacked Ukraine because Macron is weak?
It's all Macron's fault, huh?
God, there was me thinking it was Putin's fault for sending troops in, and killing civilians, when it was actually all Macron's fault all along.
Well, you live and learn.
Thanks @d_d for being such an asset to this site. How do you do it? This penetrating analysis is beyond compare.
It isn't, tbf. Didn't we have a couple of similarly penetrating analysts appearing here fairly recently ?
P Johnson reincarnated. Now attached to the section desperately trying to get one of Putin's buddies elected next month.
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
Ah, there you go again, pretending that the situation of people in Ukraine trying to get into Poland is identical to people in France trying to get into the UK.
Every country in Europe, not just Poland.
If you think the forrin should be kept away that's fine - Patel is doing this for you. Some of us have humanity still.
No she isn't. She has completely failed to stop immigration. We haven't even got to the point of being able to distinguish between the immigrants we want and the immigrants we don't.
Listen to Sir Edward Leigh. A stack of people don't want *any* immigrants. At all.
That’s true, but they are a tiny minority.
They way you go on about this, and normally you’re pretty level headed, is as if we’re an island of Tommy Robinson’s which we clearly are not.
RP is a negative nationalist. He is simply incapable of seeing the UK in a positive light.
I can genuinely say I have never thought that. He is critical of specific aspects of this Government but as I remember he was a Brexiteer (I think) and his criticism has consistently about how that result has been implemented. I disagree with him on most of what he says but in this instance his attacks on current Government policy towards refugees and on the pronouncements of certain brain dead MPs seems absolutely justified.
"On Saturday, Russia’s state airline, Aeroflot, said that it would suspend all international flights because of “additional circumstances that prevent the performance of flights.” Domestic flights are sure to follow.
Russia spans 11 time zones. If this persists, the grip of the Russian central government over the Russian landmass could begin to loosen. In the Russian Far East there are a lot of cities closer to Beijing than Moscow. Just saying … "
The initial suspension probably has an awful lot more to do with ensuring Aeroflot's planes aren't reclaimed when they land outside Russia rather than an issue with spares. Aeroflot leases the planes, it does seem to own them.
Spares and the lack of them will come a problem later.
Yep, you don’t want to land a leased plane anywhere the lease company might turn up with a court order, or the airport might have an unpaid bill that needs settling in hard currency.
Airlines are also responsible for the payment of landing charges, in local currency. So the cost of landing a plane in, say, Heathrow - even were it possible - has effectively now doubled.
Indeed, and no airport is going to give them any credit right now, so they’d better have a briefcase of cash with them. Not to mention all the roundabout routes they have had to take because of airspace bans, that make the flights much more expensive to operate.
Fun fact. Don’t know if it’s still true, but British Airways Captains used to have a company credit card that was genuinely unlimited. It could be used to pay for 400 hotel rooms and 100 tons of fuel if necessary. Mate of mine had one before he retired a few years back.
Boris signalling a review of UK energy supply and in particular the granting of licences for UK own oil and gas development
Cambo ?
In policy terms, the tories seem much keener to claw back Reform's 4% than they do Labour's 40%.
Economic reality
The hit that household finances are going to take from inflation, taxation and energy costs over the next year is being very underestimated as a political issue, in my view.
I totally disagree with you Misty. It was set to be awkward for the Conservatives, but all the pain on UK households it can all be bundled in as Putin’s fault now, and unavoidable and can’t be mitigated in the circumstances.
Not a single fool will rise in any part of the commons and ask for the tax increases to be scrapped or delayed now, money needs to be found to bolster defence budget and fight Putin economically.
If only we were going to bolster the defence budget.
Given how crap the MoD is at getting value for money on defence projects - I'm quite happy that we aren't rushing to spend money today.
Let's work out exactly what modern day warfare looks like and work from there (no need for tanks but tractors seem useful).
Should get @Dura_Ace on the case. Certainly knows his stuff.
Think we might just end up with a lot of very fast cars and bikes, with an extremely well paid test driver.
Some might say that would be an improvement, in many areas of the MoD
Watching this business over the refugees I am continually harking back in my memory to the fuss we had when Amin kicked the Asians out of Uganda. No, they could go somewhere else. No this, no that, but first of all the Heath government was positive about them coming and but they actually arrived here we found them homes and, those who needed them, jobs. And financially some at least were a lot better off than the Ukrainians will be.
Quite a few were called Patel.
And unsurprisingly they turned out to be a real asset to the country.
Did Leigh make all this fuss when the Government were going to let in half a million Hong Kong Chinese who were going to become permanent settlers? Or is it just Eastern Europeans he hates?
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
Ah, there you go again, pretending that the situation of people in Ukraine trying to get into Poland is identical to people in France trying to get into the UK.
Every country in Europe, not just Poland.
If you think the forrin should be kept away that's fine - Patel is doing this for you. Some of us have humanity still.
No she isn't. She has completely failed to stop immigration. We haven't even got to the point of being able to distinguish between the immigrants we want and the immigrants we don't.
Listen to Sir Edward Leigh. A stack of people don't want *any* immigrants. At all.
That’s true, but they are a tiny minority.
They way you go on about this, and normally you’re pretty level headed, is as if we’re an island of Tommy Robinson’s which we clearly are not.
RP is a negative nationalist. He is simply incapable of seeing the UK in a positive light.
There is MUCH of the UK I take in a good light. We are a free country. We aren't corrupt. We have been a driver of industrial and technological and medical advances that have transformed the human condition for the better. I think we have lost our way over the last 50 years (and increasingly so recently) but we can be all those things again.
Which is why I am banging the drum for federalism - refound our constitution so that the UK survives and thrives and excels once again. Because the alternative is falling apart and further division and becoming less relevant to the world each year.
Why the hell doesn't Patel order mobile pop-up offices to be sent out to handle visa applications directly where they are needed. OR simply grant temporary visas at point of entry for Ukrainian passport holders?
Because her mission is to stop immigrants
The cruelty is the point
I gather you can get in if you agree to pick some strawberries?
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Can't deny this got me close to blubbing. Didn't actually cry of cross. British and all that. But close
"Outside Lviv station, which is thronging with exhausted refugees fleeing war in eastern Ukraine, an accomplished pianist is playing “What a Wonderful World.” It’s hauntingly beautiful."
The Ukrainian family was so happy to have visas and an exchanged ferry ticket and be on way to UK this afternoon. But they're now being held by immigration officials at Calais and they don't know why. They are distraught. I don't know what to say to them. @ukhomeoffice?
They're being "detained" by border force for "further inquiries". They've been given an IS.81 form and told they're "liable to be detained under Paragraph 16(1) of Schedule 2 of the Immigration Act 1971". Passports and travel documents have been taken. This is just inhumane.
That's the system working as intended. Don't let anyone tell you this is evidence of the Home Office not being fit for purpose. This is exactly the purpose the Home Office has been told to fulfil.
This is the daily experience of all sorts of people at the UK Border for decades, and it's only being noticed now because there's temporary sympathy for Ukrainian refugees.
The sympathy will be anything but temporary.
But, it’s true, the Home Office have built a powerful system for keeping foreign looking and sounding people out of our country, credit where credits due, a Brexit and election promise has been delivered.
The one great thing about days like today's is that you instantly discover the posters without a single ounce of humanity (or common sense) in them.
Oh, hell, if it were me I would open the doors to anyone with a Ukrainian passport (though that gives problems with Ukrainian residents who don't have such passports). But there's a reason why I'm not in government and it's important to analyse why the decisions that have been made have been made - and chucking around allegations of heartlessness or racism doesn't help with that.
Strange how you change your tune as soon as I call you out on it...
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
Ah, there you go again, pretending that the situation of people in Ukraine trying to get into Poland is identical to people in France trying to get into the UK.
Every country in Europe, not just Poland.
If you think the forrin should be kept away that's fine - Patel is doing this for you. Some of us have humanity still.
No she isn't. She has completely failed to stop immigration. We haven't even got to the point of being able to distinguish between the immigrants we want and the immigrants we don't.
Listen to Sir Edward Leigh. A stack of people don't want *any* immigrants. At all.
That’s true, but they are a tiny minority.
They way you go on about this, and normally you’re pretty level headed, is as if we’re an island of Tommy Robinson’s which we clearly are not.
RP is a negative nationalist. He is simply incapable of seeing the UK in a positive light.
Given the industrial sector he works in I can see why he is unusually pessimistic.
Naah. Was that before. Honestly think my crowning glory was at a public meeting in Thornaby before the 2019 election where the surge in crime and ASB enabled by the lack of police and lack of council resources like street wardens was turning some people's streets into hell.
Our opponents in the Thornaby Independent Association blamed us as councillors and the Labour council and the Labour MP and promised that a better way was possible by standing up for the town that should be a local town for local people again.
I pointed out that people were free to vote for whomever they wanted but as the problems were caused by local toerags and a change of council would not fix the lack of police or resources absolutely nothing would change. As expected we got absolutely mullered and the TIA won all seats. And very quickly were getting it massively in the neck because now THEY were responsible for the crime ridden hell and they were doing nothing about it.
Sometimes world weary cynicism is right. Is good. Works. All those Gekko things.
Can't deny this got me close to blubbing. Didn't actually cry of cross. British and all that. But close
"Outside Lviv station, which is thronging with exhausted refugees fleeing war in eastern Ukraine, an accomplished pianist is playing “What a Wonderful World.” It’s hauntingly beautiful."
The one great thing about days like today's is that you instantly discover the posters without a single ounce of humanity (or common sense) in them.
Oh, hell, if it were me I would open the doors to anyone with a Ukrainian passport (though that gives problems with Ukrainian residents who don't have such passports). But there's a reason why I'm not in government and it's important to analyse why the decisions that have been made have been made - and chucking around allegations of heartlessness or racism doesn't help with that.
Strange how you change your tune as soon as I call you out on it...
When people start talking nonsense about me, I correct them, yes...
But I already talked about what would happen in an ideal world, so it's not just because you started talking nonsense about me.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
👍🏻 They should enjoy the French food and drink during being marooned there.
- Cases are going up again. R above 1 in most regions. So far a fairly small rise. But since the rise is among the oldest groups, first., this means that hospital numbers are being affected.... - Hospital admissions R is above 1 for the first time in a while. - MV beds up slightly - In Hospital up slightly - for both it is interesting how fast a change in cases has come through. Certainly correlates with the observations about Omicron being "quicker" than delta - Deaths down
It is not necessary to believe the government is “racist”. However the current issue reminds us:
That the Home Office has - in the absence of measures that cost money - generally used a kind of institutional cruelty to deter migrants. This has been the case for some time.
That this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular.
That the Home Office lacks flexibility and this government in particular can’t do coherent crisis management (the refugee issue being highly predictable).
That Boris continues to lie and gaslight the population (claims of world-beating etc).
As I have said at the outset of this crisis, the character of Ukrainian refugees means there are both very good humanitarian AND economic reasons to let refugees in, perhaps via the very simple measure suggested by @TimS above.
This periodic shambles continues at least until Boris goes.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
👍🏻 They should enjoy the French food and drink during being marooned there.
They've already been through one tragedy, and now you're proposing adding a second on top by subjecting them to *the French*?
- Cases are going up again. R above 1 in most regions. So far a fairly small rise. But since the rise is among the oldest groups, first., this means that hospital numbers are being affected.... - Hospital admissions R is above 1 for the first time in a while. - MV beds up slightly - In Hospital up slightly - for both it is interesting how fast a change in cases has come through. Certainly correlates with the observations about Omicron being "quicker" than delta - Deaths down
That's my experience among friends and relations. First time I've seen a rise for ages. Everyone's vaccinated of course, but it's not absolute protection against sever disease.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
There you go with your Brexit thing again. I seriously believe you experience (perhaps subconscious) guilt about your vote, and this compels you to go on about it in every second post.
It is not necessary to believe the government is “racist”. However the current issue reminds us:
That the Home Office has - in the absence of measures that cost money - generally used a kind of institutional cruelty to deter migrants. This has been the case for some time.
That this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular.
That the Home Office lacks flexibility and this government in particular can’t do coherent crisis management (the refugee issue being highly predictable).
That Boris continues to lie and gaslight the population (claims of world-beating etc).
As I have said at the outset of this crisis, the character of Ukrainian refugees means there are both very good humanitarian AND economic reasons to let refugees in, perhaps via the very simple measure suggested by @TimS above.
This periodic shambles continues at least until Boris goes.
The argument @Applicant has is that not all Ukrainians have a passport but that misses a very fundamental point.
It doesn't stop us doing the sane and sensible thing and waving through those people who do have said passport. That has 2 benefits
1) It doesn't make us look like the heartless bunch of gaslighting liars we currently are 2) it reduces the work required to the point that meetings will only be required for those hard to deal with cases where they don't have valid paperwork
Heck for years my day job was identify things that were easy to sort out and automating them away - it's not usually difficult to see how you can fix 70-80% of issues quickly once you spend a few minutes looking at the incoming requests / problems.,
Foreign Secretary Liz Truss refuses three times to say that she believes Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a "war of aggression" because she doesn't understand what it means.
It is not necessary to believe the government is “racist”. However the current issue reminds us:
That the Home Office has - in the absence of measures that cost money - generally used a kind of institutional cruelty to deter migrants. This has been the case for some time.
Not just measures that cost money, but measures that they can implement without being denounced as racist.
Essentially, the Home Office plitically can't do anything to reduce demand, so it has to match demand to supply(*) by the usual three methods: lottery, queuing and price. And as it doesn't do much if any of the first (unlike the US diversity visa programme, it essentially resolves to making visa applications difficult, expensive or both.
(*) the level of which is a political decision, of course.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
These people have crossed right across Europe, yet nobody along their journey has offered to take them in. Bastards.
No wonder they want to get to the warm bosom of the UK so desperately.
It is not necessary to believe the government is “racist”. However the current issue reminds us:
That the Home Office has - in the absence of measures that cost money - generally used a kind of institutional cruelty to deter migrants. This has been the case for some time.
That this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular.
That the Home Office lacks flexibility and this government in particular can’t do coherent crisis management (the refugee issue being highly predictable).
That Boris continues to lie and gaslight the population (claims of world-beating etc).
As I have said at the outset of this crisis, the character of Ukrainian refugees means there are both very good humanitarian AND economic reasons to let refugees in, perhaps via the very simple measure suggested by @TimS above.
This periodic shambles continues at least until Boris goes.
The argument @Applicant has is that not all Ukrainians have a passport but that misses a very fundamental point.
It doesn't stop us doing the sane and sensible thing and waving through those people who do have said passport.
I never said it did. But if we did that, as I mentioned earlier, all that would happen is that the usual suspects would immediately move on to complaining about the edge cases. And therefore politically there's no incentive for the politicians at the Home Office and above to do it.
But, seriously, the trend for Boris looks quite promising (for him) judging by a quick scan I had of the figures. I think that is worrying because for everyone's sakes he really needs to go. But it just ain't happening is it?
- Cases are going up again. R above 1 in most regions. So far a fairly small rise. But since the rise is among the oldest groups, first., this means that hospital numbers are being affected.... - Hospital admissions R is above 1 for the first time in a while. - MV beds up slightly - In Hospital up slightly - for both it is interesting how fast a change in cases has come through. Certainly correlates with the observations about Omicron being "quicker" than delta - Deaths down
While we are all watching Ukraine, a new Covid disaster is overtaking Hong Kong, which now has one of the highest death rates ever recorded anywhere
"This #pandemic is gonna make many #experts eat their words, especially those who were ecstatic about HK’s handling of it.
Overwhelmed medics unable to monitor oxygen cylinders for Covid patients at inundated Hong Kong hospitals - Hong Kong Free Press HKFP"
Foreign Secretary Liz Truss refuses three times to say that she believes Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a "war of aggression" because she doesn't understand what it means.
Ahghhhhh....Reports of "Truckloads of Ukrainian Aid stuck in UK due to post-Brexit paperwork: charity workers who are trying to send aid to people in war-torn Ukraine say their donations are spending days stuck at Dover due to complex post-Brexit checks." (PoliticsHome) https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/status/1500889381166587904
Watching this business over the refugees I am continually harking back in my memory to the fuss we had when Amin kicked the Asians out of Uganda. No, they could go somewhere else. No this, no that, but first of all the Heath government was positive about them coming and but they actually arrived here we found them homes and, those who needed them, jobs. And financially some at least were a lot better off than the Ukrainians will be.
Quite a few were called Patel.
The UK accepted 27,200 Ugandan Asian refugees; in 1972 net migration to the UK was -11,000 and in 1973 it was -50,000. Less than two weeks after the start of the war there are already 1,700,000 Ukrainian refugees, and except during the pandemic UK net migration hasn't been under 200,000 per year for a decade. These situations are not comparable.
It is not necessary to believe the government is “racist”. However the current issue reminds us:
That the Home Office has - in the absence of measures that cost money - generally used a kind of institutional cruelty to deter migrants. This has been the case for some time.
That this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular.
That the Home Office lacks flexibility and this government in particular can’t do coherent crisis management (the refugee issue being highly predictable).
That Boris continues to lie and gaslight the population (claims of world-beating etc).
As I have said at the outset of this crisis, the character of Ukrainian refugees means there are both very good humanitarian AND economic reasons to let refugees in, perhaps via the very simple measure suggested by @TimS above.
This periodic shambles continues at least until Boris goes.
The argument @Applicant has is that not all Ukrainians have a passport but that misses a very fundamental point.
It doesn't stop us doing the sane and sensible thing and waving through those people who do have said passport.
I never said it did. But if we did that, as I mentioned earlier, all that would happen is that the usual suspects would immediately move on to complaining about the edge cases. And therefore politically there's no incentive for the politicians at the Home Office and above to do it.
But there is, as I covered it in the second half of the post.
Although it is. of course, easier to drown out the edge cases with the WTF are the UK thinking about ones.
It is not necessary to believe the government is “racist”. However the current issue reminds us:
That the Home Office has - in the absence of measures that cost money - generally used a kind of institutional cruelty to deter migrants. This has been the case for some time.
Not just measures that cost money, but measures that they can implement without being denounced as racist.
Essentially, the Home Office plitically can't do anything to reduce demand, so it has to match demand to supply(*) by the usual three methods: lottery, queuing and price. And as it doesn't do much if any of the first (unlike the US diversity visa programme, it essentially resolves to making visa applications difficult, expensive or both.
(*) the level of which is a political decision, of course.
And a kind of bureaucratic cruelty.
But putting that aside, it’s the lack of political leadership and urgency that has contributed to this current issue.
It’s as if Patel didn’t realise what was coming. Well, in fact, she didn’t and when she did, her first instinct was likely to tighten the borders.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
There you go with your Brexit thing again. I seriously believe you experience (perhaps subconscious) guilt about your vote, and this compels you to go on about it in every second post.
lol. I refer you to this sentence in your immediately preceding comment:
"this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular"
You just can't help yourself. You're so sunk in this toxic madness you aren't even aware that you're doing it
The UK accepted 27,200 Ugandan Asian refugees; in 1972 net migration to the UK was -11,000 and in 1973 it was -50,000. Less than two weeks after the start of the war there are already 1,700,000 Ukrainian refugees, and except during the pandemic UK net migration hasn't been under 200,000 per year for a decade. These situations are not comparable.
The UK accepted 27,200 Ugandan Asian refugees
Less than two weeks after the start of the war there are already 1,700,000 Ukrainian refugees
We have taken 50...
These situations are not comparable, and we are shamed as a Nation as a result
Ahghhhhh....Reports of "Truckloads of Ukrainian Aid stuck in UK due to post-Brexit paperwork: charity workers who are trying to send aid to people in war-torn Ukraine say their donations are spending days stuck at Dover due to complex post-Brexit checks." (PoliticsHome) https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/status/1500889381166587904
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
These people have crossed right across Europe, yet nobody along their journey has offered to take them in. Bastards.
No wonder they want to get to the warm bosom of the UK so desperately.
The reports I’ve seen are typically about people with some form of existing UK link.
The 100-billion-euro package for the Bundeswehr is intended to make the German armed forces the most powerful in Europe, says Minister Christian Lindner
It's not enough for that, even if they sort out their bureaucrats.
It is about 2.5% of GDP, which covers approx 4-5 years of shortfall - whilst the shortfall has been happening since the millenium at least.
All it will cover is pothole filling and sticky plasters, plus a little more. The big stuff will come from the 2% commitment, which is about an extra 40% on the previous Defence Budget,
It includes 20bn Euro to make sure they have enough ammunition stocks.
They still have minor problems to deal with such as any item over £25m requiring a Parliamentary vote.
Interesting, thanks.
...the German-French development of a new air-defense system, a new generation of battle tanks and the Eurodrone;
a new artillery and munitions system in cooperation with Britain;...
...top of the priority list is a successor to the ancient Tornado fighters. In his speech on Sunday, Scholz indicated that the current strategy calls for a hybrid solution, essentially taking elements of the modernized Eurofighter and from the new American super-fighter F-35 from Lockheed Martin. This project alone is estimated to cost around 15 billion euros....
What the heck is the last item - why don't they just buy the F35 ? Cobbling together a new aircraft will take years, might not produce anything useful, and is likely to cost as much if not more. A decent order ought to see them get a good slice of the production in Germany.
Look up the history of multi-national aircraft projects, in Europe.
- Germany announces they will have the biggest buy. - Germany get the biggest work share. - Germany cuts the buy and announces that if they lose work share, they will collapse the project.
That won't work with an F-35 buy
Ultimately, the Germans have four options:
(1) Buy the F35 (2) Buy the Saab Grippen (3) Fuck around attempting to make the Eurofughter Typhoon into something it isn't and waste billions (4) Do nothing
My view - fwiw - is that option (2) is probably the best, quickest and most cost efficient route forward. And while it wouldn't create true fifth gen fighter, the reality is that a decent fourth gen one - that doesn't suffer from a long list of defects and low uptime - would serve Germany very well.
Wasn't there originally a fuss over the name because Typhoons killed so many Germans in WWII? Not sure Tempest would go down much better.
I read that there's an NGF (New Generation Fighter) being designed by Germany, France & Spain, due for introduction in 2040. That might be much too late for a lot of reasons.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
These people have crossed right across Europe, yet nobody along their journey has offered to take them in. Bastards.
No wonder they want to get to the warm bosom of the UK so desperately.
To be fair to UK government, it might not be easy to find somewhere for a sudden influx off 100K to 200K people to live?
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
These people have crossed right across Europe, yet nobody along their journey has offered to take them in. Bastards.
No wonder they want to get to the warm bosom of the UK so desperately.
The reports I’ve seen are typically about people with some form of existing UK link.
Typical heartless post from you, I’m afraid.
You don't even live in the UK any more, so why the fuck do you think you have a say on who comes here? Fuck off, you stupid fat fuck
There. I feel better now. Good afternoon, everyone
I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.
Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.
It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
Ah, there you go again, pretending that the situation of people in Ukraine trying to get into Poland is identical to people in France trying to get into the UK.
Every country in Europe, not just Poland.
If you think the forrin should be kept away that's fine - Patel is doing this for you. Some of us have humanity still.
No she isn't. She has completely failed to stop immigration. We haven't even got to the point of being able to distinguish between the immigrants we want and the immigrants we don't.
Listen to Sir Edward Leigh. A stack of people don't want *any* immigrants. At all.
That’s true, but they are a tiny minority.
They way you go on about this, and normally you’re pretty level headed, is as if we’re an island of Tommy Robinson’s which we clearly are not.
I am really disappointed in @RochdalePioneers recent rants which do not relate to the discussions in the HOC and the contributions by conservative mps
I was directly quoting from a contribution by a Conservative MP. Then posted verbatim his entire contribution and a link.
How is posting Sir Edward Leigh's entire diatribe me "ranting" in a way which does not relate to contributions by Conservative MPs like Sir Edward Leigh?
Its very very simple. Every country in Europe has opened its doors to Ukrainian refugees. All of them. Except one. Personally I am disgusted by this. Others are not. Me posting verbatim comments by Tory MPs demonstrating why we stand alone in closing our door to refugees is not me performing "recent rants".
You are demonising conservatives by highlighting one disgusting mp who does nor represent HMG
You may as well attack labour who have pro Putin mps on their benches
You are better than this
You are whining about how unfair Rochdale is highlighting Edward Leigh and how his view dovetails with Priti Patel's "current" Ukrainian refugee policy. You then claim Leigh is not representative of the wider Conservative Party. And I would hope he isn't. Yet you yourself last week were demanding Starmer's head for his failure to expel his "Stop the War" MPs.
What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?
- Cases are going up again. R above 1 in most regions. So far a fairly small rise. But since the rise is among the oldest groups, first., this means that hospital numbers are being affected.... - Hospital admissions R is above 1 for the first time in a while. - MV beds up slightly - In Hospital up slightly - for both it is interesting how fast a change in cases has come through. Certainly correlates with the observations about Omicron being "quicker" than delta - Deaths down
While we are all watching Ukraine, a new Covid disaster is overtaking Hong Kong, which now has one of the highest death rates ever recorded anywhere
"This #pandemic is gonna make many #experts eat their words, especially those who were ecstatic about HK’s handling of it.
Overwhelmed medics unable to monitor oxygen cylinders for Covid patients at inundated Hong Kong hospitals - Hong Kong Free Press HKFP"
The reasons seems to be: low vax rates in the elderly, dodgy Chinese jabs anyway, and a lack of prior immunity. Plus BA2 Omicron
Hmm
Speaking to a friend from HK at the weekend - the story seems to be the old one that, so successful were they at keeping the virus out that no one much felt the need to get vaxxed.
I wonder what vaccine mix HK has? Apparently the only two vaccines approved are Pfizer and Sinovac. I wonder what this portends for China?
The Ukrainian family was so happy to have visas and an exchanged ferry ticket and be on way to UK this afternoon. But they're now being held by immigration officials at Calais and they don't know why. They are distraught. I don't know what to say to them. @ukhomeoffice?
They're being "detained" by border force for "further inquiries". They've been given an IS.81 form and told they're "liable to be detained under Paragraph 16(1) of Schedule 2 of the Immigration Act 1971". Passports and travel documents have been taken. This is just inhumane.
I'm always slightly sceptical of stories like this, because we only ever hear one side.
Maybe they didn't look like their passport photos? Maybe their passports had been reported stolen or appeared fake?
We simply don't know if these are good people caught in a bureaucratic nightmare, or if they are bad actors playing on our sympathy.
But we do know that we have been refusing entry to refugees and are still insisting on this ludicrous visa system which seem to be a perfect way to stop anyone coming in to the UK. Whether this one instance is accurate or not is frankly irrelevant because it is clearly illustrative of the whole failure of our Government to actually pull our weight and give shelter to those who need it.
The problem is, unless you're going to say "anyone who turns up at Calais saying they've come from Ukraine gets let in" (and tempting though it is, there are good reasons not to say that), then you have to have some rules. And then the Home Office, being the Home Office, goes ludicrously OTT and Patel isn't capable of reining them in.
What good reasons? Bearing in mind you can reasonably exclude males 18-60 on the grounds they are illegally out of Ukr, which excludes 99% of criminals and virtuallly all dangerous ones.
The language factor is a massive pull, and even without that I doubt the German and French governments would have any compunction about waving people west on the free trains they've laid on.
In an ideal world, there would be something set up in Poland (and maybe Hungary and Slovakia but I suspect the vast majority of refugees are leaving through the Polish border) whereby people who have links to other countries get all the paperwork sorted, and those who don't get assigned to whichever country they will take refuge in. But, of course, this is not an ideal world.
Don't be bloody silly. "The language factor" might attract people looking for a permanent home, who speak English. these people are temporary refugees from a non anglophone country (look how few of their ministers and ambassadors starting with the President attempt English in speeches).
I personally know 3 people (and of several more) who have driven to the Ukraine border and picked people up brought them back to Germany without anyone filling in any forms. They have the right to stay and work and have access to education etc for a year without applying for asylum. Of course there are no border controls between Poland and Germany, so in that sense Britain has the luxury of having a different policy.
None of the Ukrainians I know of have any interest in travelling on to the UK - they are here because they have some kind of connection here and will stay here until they can go back (of course some might want to stay longer). I guess that before this year there were quite a few more Ukrainians in Germany than in the UK, but it would be nice if those with connections in Britain could get there.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
These people have crossed right across Europe, yet nobody along their journey has offered to take them in. Bastards.
No wonder they want to get to the warm bosom of the UK so desperately.
The reports I’ve seen are typically about people with some form of existing UK link.
Typical heartless post from you, I’m afraid.
You don't even live in the UK any more, so why the fuck do you think you have a say on who comes here? Fuck off, you stupid fat fuck
There. I feel better now. Good afternoon, everyone
You’ve been much less funny since Covid impaired your brain. @malcolmg does much better vitriol than you can manage these days.
Ahghhhhh....Reports of "Truckloads of Ukrainian Aid stuck in UK due to post-Brexit paperwork: charity workers who are trying to send aid to people in war-torn Ukraine say their donations are spending days stuck at Dover due to complex post-Brexit checks." (PoliticsHome) https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/status/1500889381166587904
Yeah bollocks to brexit, but Ukraine doesn't want truckloads of thoughtlessly chosen tat from Amazon or tins of beans; like a teenager at Christmas or a bride n groom it would much rather have hard cash, which obviates this sort of problem.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
There you go with your Brexit thing again. I seriously believe you experience (perhaps subconscious) guilt about your vote, and this compels you to go on about it in every second post.
lol. I refer you to this sentence in your immediately preceding comment:
"this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular"
You just can't help yourself. You're so sunk in this toxic madness you aren't even aware that you're doing it
But you want to see a massive fallout between France and Germany, possibly involving skirmishes. Not all of you feels that way, I won't be unfair here, but there's a big part of you that does. This is a more crazy and reprehensible sentiment than being unreconciled to Brexit.
Ahghhhhh....Reports of "Truckloads of Ukrainian Aid stuck in UK due to post-Brexit paperwork: charity workers who are trying to send aid to people in war-torn Ukraine say their donations are spending days stuck at Dover due to complex post-Brexit checks." (PoliticsHome) https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/status/1500889381166587904
Why are they in trucks in Dover
They should be airlifted direct to Poland
There was a whip round organised by a Ukrainian Yorkshireman back in my homeland, he filled a van up with what he said was needed, telephone and tech cables and pampers etc, and reckoned it would take him 2 days to drive it to Ukraine border. It’s probably people like that getting slowed up?
- Cases are going up again. R above 1 in most regions. So far a fairly small rise. But since the rise is among the oldest groups, first., this means that hospital numbers are being affected.... - Hospital admissions R is above 1 for the first time in a while. - MV beds up slightly - In Hospital up slightly - for both it is interesting how fast a change in cases has come through. Certainly correlates with the observations about Omicron being "quicker" than delta - Deaths down
While we are all watching Ukraine, a new Covid disaster is overtaking Hong Kong, which now has one of the highest death rates ever recorded anywhere
"This #pandemic is gonna make many #experts eat their words, especially those who were ecstatic about HK’s handling of it.
Overwhelmed medics unable to monitor oxygen cylinders for Covid patients at inundated Hong Kong hospitals - Hong Kong Free Press HKFP"
Foreign Secretary Liz Truss refuses three times to say that she believes Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a "war of aggression" because she doesn't understand what it means.
It is not necessary to believe the government is “racist”. However the current issue reminds us:
That the Home Office has - in the absence of measures that cost money - generally used a kind of institutional cruelty to deter migrants. This has been the case for some time.
That this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular.
That the Home Office lacks flexibility and this government in particular can’t do coherent crisis management (the refugee issue being highly predictable).
That Boris continues to lie and gaslight the population (claims of world-beating etc).
As I have said at the outset of this crisis, the character of Ukrainian refugees means there are both very good humanitarian AND economic reasons to let refugees in, perhaps via the very simple measure suggested by @TimS above.
This periodic shambles continues at least until Boris goes.
The argument @Applicant has is that not all Ukrainians have a passport but that misses a very fundamental point.
It doesn't stop us doing the sane and sensible thing and waving through those people who do have said passport.
I never said it did. But if we did that, as I mentioned earlier, all that would happen is that the usual suspects would immediately move on to complaining about the edge cases. And therefore politically there's no incentive for the politicians at the Home Office and above to do it.
There aren't edge cases between having a valid Ukr passport vs not having one.
The fact that people who have fled Ukraine are being slowed down in France while they wait to apply for British visas is simply not a humanitarian tragedy or the end of the world. They are out of the warzone and have various options including free rail travel. Unlike other refugees from various global conflicts, they also benefit from enormous public sympathy and goodwill across Europe. People need to get things in to a bit of perspective. It is overly bureaucratic and annoying, but insignificant compared with what the people left in Ukraine are having to deal with. Also, there has to be a long term plan, because we can't simply lift 40+ million people out of danger (and dogs, pets etc) and just hand over the country to the invading Russians. Such a situation would obviously be brilliant for Putin and terrible for us.
Yes, quite
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
There you go with your Brexit thing again. I seriously believe you experience (perhaps subconscious) guilt about your vote, and this compels you to go on about it in every second post.
lol. I refer you to this sentence in your immediately preceding comment:
"this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular"
You just can't help yourself. You're so sunk in this toxic madness you aren't even aware that you're doing it
But you want to see a massive fallout between France and Germany, possibly involving skirmishes. Not all of you feels that way, I won't be unfair here, but there's a big part of you that does. This is a more crazy and reprehensible sentiment than being unreconciled to Brexit.
It’s not that long since he was waxing lyrical about Putin’s iron grip.
It’s best to treat him like a mildly amusing, filter-free, lecherous uncle.
But, seriously, the trend for Boris looks quite promising (for him) judging by a quick scan I had of the figures. I think that is worrying because for everyone's sakes he really needs to go. But it just ain't happening is it?
I'm not brave enough to predict he definitely fights the 2024 election but I cannot see how he departs before summer 2023 (May 2023 elections are admittedly a much more pivotal set of elections for the Tories).
Ahghhhhh....Reports of "Truckloads of Ukrainian Aid stuck in UK due to post-Brexit paperwork: charity workers who are trying to send aid to people in war-torn Ukraine say their donations are spending days stuck at Dover due to complex post-Brexit checks." (PoliticsHome) https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/status/1500889381166587904
Why are they in trucks in Dover
They should be airlifted direct to Poland
The sane approach would be to send money and purchase everything from Poland and or Germany / Surrounding countries.
The second approach is then to ship the stuff by lorry as that is cheaper than air freight.
Ahghhhhh....Reports of "Truckloads of Ukrainian Aid stuck in UK due to post-Brexit paperwork: charity workers who are trying to send aid to people in war-torn Ukraine say their donations are spending days stuck at Dover due to complex post-Brexit checks." (PoliticsHome) https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/status/1500889381166587904
Yeah bollocks to brexit, but Ukraine doesn't want truckloads of thoughtlessly chosen tat from Amazon or tins of beans; like a teenager at Christmas or a bride n groom it would much rather have hard cash, which obviates this sort of problem.
Although it relates mostly to charity tourism, I've always liked this comedy sketch touching upon the subject of the potential downsides of trying to help when you are not best placed for it
Comments
The cruelty is the point
It's not heartless.
It's not shocking.
It's not racist.
It's not xenophobic
At the very, very worst, and that's a push, it is bureaucratic and, in fact, competent.
You can see why Ol' One-Note sticks to mindlessly repeating tweets.
7/10, room for improvement but not a bad first effort.
What would you think if you got to Calais and tried to fill in a passenger locator form, to find you had to go to Paris to get one?
Home Office says it's opening an extra visa application centre for Ukrainian refugees "en route" to Calais but won't say where or when it'll open.
It won't open one in Calais because of fears it would create a "pull factor".
Currently no appointments in Brussels or Paris VACs
https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1500882465778458624
Should get @Dura_Ace on the case. Certainly knows his stuff.
To which I say - each to his own.
Zero chance of Tory MPs changing leader and PM on those numbers
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-7-march-2022/
As regards to the reality of hardship, I will go further than you, it was already going to be the worst crunch in decades even without the war on top. One of the hopeful forecasts was for inflation to drop away quickly and not linger too high too long degrading wages, an increase in which would further fuel inflation - inflation dropping away below 3 and 4 soon has to look less hopeful now.
The other problem you might not have realised is the push this week not to have any Russian oil, because quite obviously you are paying him money when you are supposed to be making him broke. But the impact on no Russian oil will be huge on the UK, the costs we would have to pay for fuel, and the threat on supply will be hard for us.
Makes me think when our leaders talk up a long game they have fingers crossed behind our backs not just hoping but trying for a short war.
No, they could go somewhere else. No this, no that, but first of all the Heath government was positive about them coming and but they actually arrived here we found them homes and, those who needed them, jobs. And financially some at least were a lot better off than the Ukrainians will be.
Quite a few were called Patel.
Ukrainians on way to UK hit paperwork dead-end in Calais
https://bit.ly/3MugA7w
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-7-march-2022/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60652914
Fun fact. Don’t know if it’s still true, but British Airways Captains used to have a company credit card that was genuinely unlimited. It could be used to pay for 400 hotel rooms and 100 tons of fuel if necessary. Mate of mine had one before he retired a few years back.
Did Leigh make all this fuss when the Government were going to let in half a million Hong Kong Chinese who were going to become permanent settlers? Or is it just Eastern Europeans he hates?
Which is why I am banging the drum for federalism - refound our constitution so that the UK survives and thrives and excels once again. Because the alternative is falling apart and further division and becoming less relevant to the world each year.
However, the Brussels one is only open on Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays, and for only half the day.
No wonder there are no appointments https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1500886712511340549/photo/1
"Outside Lviv station, which is thronging with exhausted refugees fleeing war in eastern Ukraine, an accomplished pianist is playing “What a Wonderful World.” It’s hauntingly beautiful."
https://twitter.com/Journotopia/status/1500093818699456527?s=20&t=aKsPlMTDfkg1wMLbiQdPxA
But, it’s true, the Home Office have built a powerful system for keeping foreign looking and sounding people out of our country, credit where credits due, a Brexit and election promise has been delivered.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/06/uk-resident-slovakian-calais-detention-home-office-misspelled-name-slugs
Our opponents in the Thornaby Independent Association blamed us as councillors and the Labour council and the Labour MP and promised that a better way was possible by standing up for the town that should be a local town for local people again.
I pointed out that people were free to vote for whomever they wanted but as the problems were caused by local toerags and a change of council would not fix the lack of police or resources absolutely nothing would change. As expected we got absolutely mullered and the TIA won all seats. And very quickly were getting it massively in the neck because now THEY were responsible for the crime ridden hell and they were doing nothing about it.
Sometimes world weary cynicism is right. Is good. Works. All those Gekko things.
Little girl singing "Let it go" in a shelter
#UkraineRussianWar #Ukraine #UkraineUnderAttack https://twitter.com/Ankita20200/status/1500496884255051776/video/1
But I already talked about what would happen in an ideal world, so it's not just because you started talking nonsense about me.
- Cases are going up again. R above 1 in most regions. So far a fairly small rise. But since the rise is among the oldest groups, first., this means that hospital numbers are being affected....
- Hospital admissions R is above 1 for the first time in a while.
- MV beds up slightly
- In Hospital up slightly - for both it is interesting how fast a change in cases has come through. Certainly correlates with the observations about Omicron being "quicker" than delta
- Deaths down
That the Home Office has - in the absence of measures that cost money - generally used a kind of institutional cruelty to deter migrants. This has been the case for some time.
That this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular.
That the Home Office lacks flexibility and this government in particular can’t do coherent crisis management (the refugee issue being highly predictable).
That Boris continues to lie and gaslight the population (claims of world-beating etc).
As I have said at the outset of this crisis, the character of Ukrainian refugees means there are both very good humanitarian AND economic reasons to let refugees in, perhaps via the very simple measure suggested by @TimS above.
This periodic shambles continues at least until Boris goes.
And of course, while the government may be guilty of inertia, red tape, bureaucracy, they actually aren't Nazis, and they probably ARE dealing with tricky issues helping the real Ukrainians, when there are people traffickers who would love to pretend they have boatloads of Ukrainians, but they're actually from Somalia
Meanwhile, half the people whining about it on here do not give an actual fuck, it's yet another proxy battle in the endless Brexit war in their stupid heads, everything Britain does is bad, Patel is a Leaver, Boris got Russian money for his campaign, blah blah fucking blah
Nauseating
I seriously believe you experience (perhaps subconscious) guilt about your vote, and this compels you to go on about it in every second post.
It doesn't stop us doing the sane and sensible thing and waving through those people who do have said passport. That has 2 benefits
1) It doesn't make us look like the heartless bunch of gaslighting liars we currently are
2) it reduces the work required to the point that meetings will only be required for those hard to deal with cases where they don't have valid paperwork
Heck for years my day job was identify things that were easy to sort out and automating them away - it's not usually difficult to see how you can fix 70-80% of issues quickly once you spend a few minutes looking at the incoming requests / problems.,
She says the ICC should handle it. Tugendhat has to tell her that the ICC does not have that jurisdiction. https://twitter.com/AdamJSchwarz/status/1500849052283457541/video/1
Essentially, the Home Office plitically can't do anything to reduce demand, so it has to match demand to supply(*) by the usual three methods: lottery, queuing and price. And as it doesn't do much if any of the first (unlike the US diversity visa programme, it essentially resolves to making visa applications difficult, expensive or both.
(*) the level of which is a political decision, of course.
No wonder they want to get to the warm bosom of the UK so desperately.
But, seriously, the trend for Boris looks quite promising (for him) judging by a quick scan I had of the figures. I think that is worrying because for everyone's sakes he really needs to go. But it just ain't happening is it?
"This #pandemic is gonna make many #experts eat their words, especially those who were ecstatic about HK’s handling of it.
Overwhelmed medics unable to monitor oxygen cylinders for Covid patients at inundated Hong Kong hospitals - Hong Kong Free Press HKFP"
https://twitter.com/Nucmedico/status/1500859363082264577?s=20&t=fUy5EXon8PD_7QxiZ9VE3g
The reasons seems to be: low vax rates in the elderly, dodgy Chinese jabs anyway, and a lack of prior immunity. Plus BA2 Omicron
Hmm
https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/status/1500889381166587904
Although it is. of course, easier to drown out the edge cases with the WTF are the UK thinking about ones.
But putting that aside, it’s the lack of political leadership and urgency that has contributed to this current issue.
It’s as if Patel didn’t realise what was coming. Well, in fact, she didn’t and when she did, her first instinct was likely to tighten the borders.
"this government in particular is still instinctively beholden to its brain dead Brexit ideology about migration, even in the face of opinion polling that shows it is unpopular"
You just can't help yourself. You're so sunk in this toxic madness you aren't even aware that you're doing it
Less than two weeks after the start of the war there are already 1,700,000 Ukrainian refugees
We have taken 50...
These situations are not comparable, and we are shamed as a Nation as a result
They should be airlifted direct to Poland
Typical heartless post from you, I’m afraid.
I read that there's an NGF (New Generation Fighter) being designed by Germany, France & Spain, due for introduction in 2040. That might be much too late for a lot of reasons.
There. I feel better now. Good afternoon, everyone
What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?
I wonder what vaccine mix HK has? Apparently the only two vaccines approved are Pfizer and Sinovac. I wonder what this portends for China?
None of the Ukrainians I know of have any interest in travelling on to the UK - they are here because they have some kind of connection here and will stay here until they can go back (of course some might want to stay longer). I guess that before this year there were quite a few more Ukrainians in Germany than in the UK, but it would be nice if those with connections in Britain could get there.
It’s best to treat him like a mildly amusing, filter-free, lecherous uncle.
The second approach is then to ship the stuff by lorry as that is cheaper than air freight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmpVX-C21Qw