Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Macron looking even more a certainty to win re-election next month – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited March 2022 in General
imageMacron looking even more a certainty to win re-election next month – politicalbetting.com

in one sense the Ukraine crisis could not have come at a better time for the President of France, Emmanuel Macron, who is seeking to secure a second term in the French Presidential elections next month.

Read the full story here

«1345678

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    First like Macron.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    not first, a bit like the Russians?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    I agree with Leon. The German re-armament program represents a more significant challenge to the French world view than it does the British. To the French, a sense of equals is required, whereas the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent, and we are a long way from that. You can call that simplistic, but sometimes, things are simple.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    Eabhal said:

    I think absolute poverty might overtake relative (or 'normal') poverty in the next couple of years.

    As an energetic participant in the "models are good, data is rubbish" debate at Christmas, I concede that the way we calculate poverty might be deeply flawed...

    Extra points to anyone who can explain why.

    Relative poverty is beloved by some because no matter how wealthy everyone becomes, as long as there is inequality, you can still have some in 'poverty'. Imagine giving everyone in the country 100,000 pounds. There would still be people below the relative poverty line, assuming current distributions of wealth. That no-one would be without food, heat and a decent TV wouldn't matter.

    Relative poverty isn't really about poverty at all - its about inequality.
    Quite.

    The absolute poverty line is increasing quickly as a result of the high rate of inflation.

    If inflation is higher than the income growth of people in lower income deciles (likely, as benefits are uprated on the prior year's inflation rate) , absolute poverty will soar, with no similar impact on relative poverty if median incomes continue to move in line with lower incomes.

    This is when the obsession with relative poverty comes back to bite. The Tories will point at it now and claim all is good, while people are genuinely suffering.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    IshmaelZ said:
    Not only that but the safe routes out are routes that lead to Russia and Belarus.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Macron really does now bestride the French political system like an unassailable colossus. Hard to see how any of the Putin-adjacent ideologues on the French right or far left can challenge long term now. The danger in his second term I think will be arrogance and hubris.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Exactly this - Johnson is not accused of overriding the original security assessment.

    It is that the component that led to the original rejection was changed/altered/withdrawn

    This, sources say, happened after the PM made it known in No10 that he would not drop the matter
    https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/1500820906851119106
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    TimS said:

    Macron really does now bestride the French political system like an unassailable colossus. Hard to see how any of the Putin-adjacent ideologues on the French right or far left can challenge long term now. The danger in his second term I think will be arrogance and hubris.

    On the arrogance and hubris front, just imagine if Trump had won a second term....(actually don't).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited March 2022
    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche.

    As OGH states following a constitutional amendment in 2000 French like US Presidents have a 2 term limit.

    So 2027 could be wide open at least even if Macron as looks likely wins again this year
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    This is powerful

    “People you speak to cannot in any way comprehend how the leader of a civilised country like Russia, like Vladimir Putin..could have done this to Kharkiv..”
    @charlesaje
    incredible reporting from #kharkiv"

    https://twitter.com/StefanieDekker/status/1500832364284493827?s=20&t=RDneajXzNWbYOGm8b7plqQ


    Look at the devastation. Horrific. The centre of the second biggest city in Ukraine is a wasteland of ruins. This raises a pretty important point, even if Russia *wins*, where on earth will they find the money to rebuild half a country? How will they make it habitable again? Who will live there?


    Everything about this war is incomprehensibly dumb, in a Satanic way
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited March 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021

    ...Increased paperwork and distribution cost and complexity driven by Brexit were a factor in its decision, they added, as was TMS's need to consolidate in Europe as it moves from supplying diesel and petrol cars to hybrid and electric vehicles...

    New ventures which need scale (see also eg Tesla) seem to have put the UK lower down the list since Brexit.

    But that's a given.
    How can we change that without rejoining the EU - which isn't going to happen in any kind of useful timeframe ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    TimS said:

    Macron really does now bestride the French political system like an unassailable colossus. Hard to see how any of the Putin-adjacent ideologues on the French right or far left can challenge long term now. The danger in his second term I think will be arrogance and hubris.

    You think Macron could be *more* arrogant???
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    geoffw said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Not only that but the safe routes out are routes that lead to Russia and Belarus.
    Actually, I have no problem for safe routes being created back to Russia and Belarus.

    For Russian soldiers. One way.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche.

    As OGH states following a constitutional amendment in 2000 French like US Presidents have a 2 term limit.

    So 2027 could be wide open at least even if Macron as looks likely wins again this year

    Le Pen is unlikely to get more than 18% in the first round which is also what she got in 2012 .

    In a Macron-Le Pen runoff I think a lot of voters would stay at home again which is why I can see 60-40 quite easily. If Macron gets as much as 30% in the first round, it would still be quite strange for him to be run as close as 55-45 in the runoff.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    TimS said:

    Macron really does now bestride the French political system like an unassailable colossus. Hard to see how any of the Putin-adjacent ideologues on the French right or far left can challenge long term now. The danger in his second term I think will be arrogance and hubris.

    On the arrogance and hubris front, just imagine if Trump had won a second term....(actually don't).
    This month has made me rethink my usual irritation at the over-focus on US politics by UK media. I now realise how important it is.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    More than 1.7 million Ukrainians have fled the war - Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees...
    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1500829973942317068
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited March 2022
    Leon said:

    This is powerful

    “People you speak to cannot in any way comprehend how the leader of a civilised country like Russia, like Vladimir Putin..could have done this to Kharkiv..”
    @charlesaje
    incredible reporting from #kharkiv"

    https://twitter.com/StefanieDekker/status/1500832364284493827?s=20&t=RDneajXzNWbYOGm8b7plqQ


    Look at the devastation. Horrific. The centre of the second biggest city in Ukraine is a wasteland of ruins. This raises a pretty important point, even if Russia *wins*, where on earth will they find the money to rebuild half a country? How will they make it habitable again? Who will live there?


    Everything about this war is incomprehensibly dumb, in a Satanic way

    They make a desert and call it peace.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Good summary thread from a St Andrews professor.

    https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1500740225831735296

    Starts: "Some ideas on the state of the war in Ukraine two weeks in, where it might be headed, and why it remains an unwinnable war for Russia which the Russians would be best to end soon or they face an extraordinarily bleak future. And why this is a lesson on the stupidity of war. The first thing to see is that for almost a week now, the Russian Army has been almost entirely inert. See the UK MODs maps yesterday and March 2. This is a sign of total strategic failure.""

    Ends: "So time is actually on Ukraine's side, not Russia's. If the Russian army cannot be reorganized, resupplied and start moving very soon, its more likely it will not be able to get out of eastern Ukraine, leaving Russia fighting a long-term war it cant win. We should know very soon."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    TimS said:

    There is a vacuum where sensible trade-focused debate should be.

    We abandoned sensible trade-focused debate in favour of slogans on the side of a bus.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche.

    As OGH states following a constitutional amendment in 2000 French like US Presidents have a 2 term limit.

    So 2027 could be wide open at least even if Macron as looks likely wins again this year

    Le Pen is unlikely to get more than 18% in the first round which is also what she got in 2012 .

    In a Macron-Le Pen runoff I think a lot of voters would stay at home again which is why I can see 60-40 quite easily. If Macron gets as much as 30% in the first round, it would still be quite strange for him to be run as close as 55-45 in the runoff.
    The Ifop poll from 1st to 4th March has Le Pen getting 93% of Zemmour voters in the runoff, 46% of Pecresse voters (by contrast only 20% of Fillon voters voted for Le Pen in 2017) and 36% of Melenchon voters (only 7% of Melenchon voters voted for Le Pen in 2017).

    That is why it would be closer in the runoff even if her first round score is slightly lower than 2017 giving her 43.5% overall

    https://www.ifop.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/ROL22_2022.03.04.pdf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_French_presidential_election
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Leon said:

    This is powerful

    “People you speak to cannot in any way comprehend how the leader of a civilised country like Russia, like Vladimir Putin..could have done this to Kharkiv..”
    @charlesaje
    incredible reporting from #kharkiv"

    https://twitter.com/StefanieDekker/status/1500832364284493827?s=20&t=RDneajXzNWbYOGm8b7plqQ


    Look at the devastation. Horrific. The centre of the second biggest city in Ukraine is a wasteland of ruins. This raises a pretty important point, even if Russia *wins*, where on earth will they find the money to rebuild half a country? How will they make it habitable again? Who will live there?


    Everything about this war is incomprehensibly dumb, in a Satanic way

    Chechnya is his plan - the rebuilding will take care of itself, eventually.

    For some reason, thinking of this song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGTvNKNguWo
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021

    The trouble with the current version of Brexit is that the losses - chronic ones generally, like this and a thousand other petty annoyances in international supply chains - are not catastrophic enough to force a change of direction, but nor are the positives or opportunities significant enough to justify the slow motion pain.

    In most cases Brexit has just added a couple of line items to the cost basis of moving goods and services across borders, or triggered the need for a duplicate function on the continent. Large multinationals just write this off as a cost of business in the same way excessive labour force regulation in some European countries, capital controls in countries like South Africa, or withholding taxes out of places like Brazil are written off. A few smaller traders are squeezed out of the market but their voices are quiet.

    In related news I had an hour in the diary booked this afternoon for a brainstorming session to try to identify some "Brexit benefits" for us to feed into HMT and DIT but it's been cancelled (or postponed) due to other news being more pressing. The fact we're all scratching our heads to find things beyond hypothetical examples of regulatory divergence that aren't actually happening is evidence of the issue.

    This is all compounded by Brexit becoming a taboo topic. The only people vocalising about it are either reciting empty charts about getting Brexit done and returning to imperial weights and measures, or they're FBPEs blaming everything from Putin to climate change on Brexit. There is a vacuum where sensible trade-focused debate should be.
    I don't think large multinationals "write off" things like capital controls in South Africa: it's a massive issue that dramatically reduces the attractiveness of the country for inward investment.
  • TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021

    The trouble with the current version of Brexit is that the losses - chronic ones generally, like this and a thousand other petty annoyances in international supply chains - are not catastrophic enough to force a change of direction, but nor are the positives or opportunities significant enough to justify the slow motion pain.

    In most cases Brexit has just added a couple of line items to the cost basis of moving goods and services across borders, or triggered the need for a duplicate function on the continent. Large multinationals just write this off as a cost of business in the same way excessive labour force regulation in some European countries, capital controls in countries like South Africa, or withholding taxes out of places like Brazil are written off. A few smaller traders are squeezed out of the market but their voices are quiet.

    In related news I had an hour in the diary booked this afternoon for a brainstorming session to try to identify some "Brexit benefits" for us to feed into HMT and DIT but it's been cancelled (or postponed) due to other news being more pressing. The fact we're all scratching our heads to find things beyond hypothetical examples of regulatory divergence that aren't actually happening is evidence of the issue.

    This is all compounded by Brexit becoming a taboo topic. The only people vocalising about it are either reciting empty charts about getting Brexit done and returning to imperial weights and measures, or they're FBPEs blaming everything from Putin to climate change on Brexit. There is a vacuum where sensible trade-focused debate should be.
    I agree - and I don't think that sensible trade-focused debate can happen as the political well has been poisoned.

    If we looked at this afresh now with zero baggage we would see a simple problem with a simple solution: The UK and EU are almost entirely aligned on almost everything to do with trade and likely to continue to be for the foreseeable. So the obvious thing to do would be to remove the barriers making trade across these aligned markets easy and cheap.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited March 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021

    ...Increased paperwork and distribution cost and complexity driven by Brexit were a factor in its decision, they added, as was TMS's need to consolidate in Europe as it moves from supplying diesel and petrol cars to hybrid and electric vehicles...

    New ventures which need scale (see also eg Tesla) seem to have put the UK lower down the list since Brexit.

    But that's a given.
    How can we change that without rejoining the EU - which isn't going to happen in any kind of useful timeframe ?
    You can't, in a climate where people seriously consider bringing back ells and perches and gills. Might as well go back to ploughing with wooden ards and ox-teams.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited March 2022
    'Lord' Lebedev's pet dog is called Boris. Really.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Chameleon said:

    Good summary thread from a St Andrews professor.

    https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1500740225831735296

    Starts: "Some ideas on the state of the war in Ukraine two weeks in, where it might be headed, and why it remains an unwinnable war for Russia which the Russians would be best to end soon or they face an extraordinarily bleak future. And why this is a lesson on the stupidity of war. The first thing to see is that for almost a week now, the Russian Army has been almost entirely inert. See the UK MODs maps yesterday and March 2. This is a sign of total strategic failure.""

    Ends: "So time is actually on Ukraine's side, not Russia's. If the Russian army cannot be reorganized, resupplied and start moving very soon, its more likely it will not be able to get out of eastern Ukraine, leaving Russia fighting a long-term war it cant win. We should know very soon."

    For balance, this is a more depressing thread about the war in the south, where the Russians do seem to be making real progress (tho the expected assault on Odessa is taking its time)


    "Eleven days since the Russian invasion of Ukraine began. In the past 24 hours, we have seen limited Russian progress in the north and east, and another broken Russian ‘ceasefire’. Today - the war in the south, and why it matters. 1/25"

    https://twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1500637716601458688?s=20&t=EjrOkXWwMCmmSZNynNeUKg


    Incidentally, Odessa looks beautiful. I was meant to be flying there next Sunday. :(
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Chameleon said:

    Good summary thread from a St Andrews professor.

    https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1500740225831735296

    Starts: "Some ideas on the state of the war in Ukraine two weeks in, where it might be headed, and why it remains an unwinnable war for Russia which the Russians would be best to end soon or they face an extraordinarily bleak future. And why this is a lesson on the stupidity of war. The first thing to see is that for almost a week now, the Russian Army has been almost entirely inert. See the UK MODs maps yesterday and March 2. This is a sign of total strategic failure.""

    Ends: "So time is actually on Ukraine's side, not Russia's. If the Russian army cannot be reorganized, resupplied and start moving very soon, its more likely it will not be able to get out of eastern Ukraine, leaving Russia fighting a long-term war it cant win. We should know very soon."

    I said this last week, that the idea Russia has weeks and months to complete the invasion is fanciful, probably more like a week or so (I did say in the original comment up to the end of art weekend…). It’s economy is under immense strain and, if the noises about their losses are correct; they don’t have much left
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021

    The trouble with the current version of Brexit is that the losses - chronic ones generally, like this and a thousand other petty annoyances in international supply chains - are not catastrophic enough to force a change of direction, but nor are the positives or opportunities significant enough to justify the slow motion pain.

    In most cases Brexit has just added a couple of line items to the cost basis of moving goods and services across borders, or triggered the need for a duplicate function on the continent. Large multinationals just write this off as a cost of business in the same way excessive labour force regulation in some European countries, capital controls in countries like South Africa, or withholding taxes out of places like Brazil are written off. A few smaller traders are squeezed out of the market but their voices are quiet.

    In related news I had an hour in the diary booked this afternoon for a brainstorming session to try to identify some "Brexit benefits" for us to feed into HMT and DIT but it's been cancelled (or postponed) due to other news being more pressing. The fact we're all scratching our heads to find things beyond hypothetical examples of regulatory divergence that aren't actually happening is evidence of the issue.

    This is all compounded by Brexit becoming a taboo topic. The only people vocalising about it are either reciting empty charts about getting Brexit done and returning to imperial weights and measures, or they're FBPEs blaming everything from Putin to climate change on Brexit. There is a vacuum where sensible trade-focused debate should be.
    I don't think large multinationals "write off" things like capital controls in South Africa: it's a massive issue that dramatically reduces the attractiveness of the country for inward investment.
    So long as SA is an important market (or producer), they continue to trade and operate there but factor it into the overall cost of doing business. But I agree where it's more marginal, or the group is smaller, it (like similar issues in a number of Latam and African countries) can tip the balance.

    We don't have anything as damaging as SARB requirements in the UK at the moment but we do have smaller frictions and in some marginal cases those have tipped the balance on investment and location decisions. The fact the UK CT rate is heading to 25% next year and will be on a level with most other OECD countries doesn't help either.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Scoop: European Union leaders may authorize the deepest ever overhaul of the continent’s energy security strategy by pledging to phase out Russian gas, oil and coal imports, according to a draft statement seen by Bloomberg News, @E_Krukowska reports.
    https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1500836785731121154
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited March 2022
    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1500842434615549962

    "The plane of Viktor Yanukovych a few hours before start of third round of negotiations flew from Moscow to Minsk, writes Ukrayinska Pravda citing an informed source in aviation sphere.

    Ukrainian intelligence believes that the Kremlin wants to make him "president of Ukraine.""

    If the leaked FSB rant is true, then he's just about the only pro-Russiann Ukrainian politician still on Russia's side. While I'm not an international man of mystery, even I can see what a bad idea this is for the Russians.

    Also Russia are now chucking Russian revolution era armoured trains into the fray: https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1500847429482172416
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

    Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.

    Former President Poroshenko:

    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1500842741823160327
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    I've got Macron on ~ 0 with all my profit (£725 or so) on Le Pen. He's rightly a heavy favourite but I can't see any value in his odds at the moment.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

    Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.

    Former President Poroshenko:

    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1500842741823160327

    What does this chap know, Scott needs to have a word with him.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Leon said:

    This is powerful

    “People you speak to cannot in any way comprehend how the leader of a civilised country like Russia, like Vladimir Putin..could have done this to Kharkiv..”
    @charlesaje
    incredible reporting from #kharkiv"

    https://twitter.com/StefanieDekker/status/1500832364284493827?s=20&t=RDneajXzNWbYOGm8b7plqQ


    Look at the devastation. Horrific. The centre of the second biggest city in Ukraine is a wasteland of ruins. This raises a pretty important point, even if Russia *wins*, where on earth will they find the money to rebuild half a country? How will they make it habitable again? Who will live there?


    Everything about this war is incomprehensibly dumb, in a Satanic way

    Chechnya is his plan - the rebuilding will take care of itself, eventually.

    For some reason, thinking of this song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGTvNKNguWo
    A truly superb series.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited March 2022
    IanB2 said:

    'Lord' Lebedev's pet dog is called Boris. Really.

    I thought it was one of his wolves?

    Just the sort of shameless flattery to get BJ all excited in his frayed boxers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Justin Trudeau announces Canada is announcing sanctions on 10 more Russians.

    Huge pressure on Britain to go harder and faster with sanctions on Russian oligarchs

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1500850161844731907
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    IanB2 said:

    'Lord' Lebedev's pet dog is called Boris. Really.

    Named after Yeltsin.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited March 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    Though even if she did no better with Pecresse voters than Fillon's, she would still do better than in 2017 overall as she is getting more Melenchon voters to vote for her and almost all Zemmour voters would vote for her too.

    Even if Pecresse voters who voted for Macron in the 2017 runoff stay home this time that also is a net gain for Le Pen
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    If the poles look good for Macron in the second round as seems very likely, then there may be a lot of people who will vote for whom ever is the alternative, partly out of spite, but partly so he cant say he won overwhelmingly, no going to be any where near enough to make a defences to the outcome IMO but enough to stop it being a landslide I suspect.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited March 2022
    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021

    The trouble with the current version of Brexit is that the losses - chronic ones generally, like this and a thousand other petty annoyances in international supply chains - are not catastrophic enough to force a change of direction, but nor are the positives or opportunities significant enough to justify the slow motion pain.

    In most cases Brexit has just added a couple of line items to the cost basis of moving goods and services across borders, or triggered the need for a duplicate function on the continent. Large multinationals just write this off as a cost of business in the same way excessive labour force regulation in some European countries, capital controls in countries like South Africa, or withholding taxes out of places like Brazil are written off. A few smaller traders are squeezed out of the market but their voices are quiet.

    In related news I had an hour in the diary booked this afternoon for a brainstorming session to try to identify some "Brexit benefits" for us to feed into HMT and DIT but it's been cancelled (or postponed) due to other news being more pressing. The fact we're all scratching our heads to find things beyond hypothetical examples of regulatory divergence that aren't actually happening is evidence of the issue.

    This is all compounded by Brexit becoming a taboo topic. The only people vocalising about it are either reciting empty charts about getting Brexit done and returning to imperial weights and measures, or they're FBPEs blaming everything from Putin to climate change on Brexit. There is a vacuum where sensible trade-focused debate should be.
    I don't think large multinationals "write off" things like capital controls in South Africa: it's a massive issue that dramatically reduces the attractiveness of the country for inward investment.
    So long as SA is an important market (or producer), they continue to trade and operate there but factor it into the overall cost of doing business. But I agree where it's more marginal, or the group is smaller, it (like similar issues in a number of Latam and African countries) can tip the balance.

    We don't have anything as damaging as SARB requirements in the UK at the moment but we do have smaller frictions and in some marginal cases those have tipped the balance on investment and location decisions. The fact the UK CT rate is heading to 25% next year and will be on a level with most other OECD countries doesn't help either.
    Sure - they operate there, selling stuff. But outside of resource extraction, multinationals have largely abandoned South Africa.
    Pulpstar said:

    I've got Macron on ~ 0 with all my profit (£725 or so) on Le Pen. He's rightly a heavy favourite but I can't see any value in his odds at the moment.

    No: 90+% isn't particularly attractive.

    That said, just as Covid did Trump in, I think Ukraine dispatches Le Pen's hopes. A lot of her second round votes - particularly from Pecresse supporters - were simply because she wasn't Macron. And while I don't think those voters will troop our and vote Emmanuel, I think they are increasingly likely to stay home and sit on their hands.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    If Le Pen got 43.5% in the runoff as latest polls suggest that matches what Boris got in 2019 and is only about 3% below what Trump got in 2016 and 2020
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Leon said:

    This is powerful

    “People you speak to cannot in any way comprehend how the leader of a civilised country like Russia, like Vladimir Putin..could have done this to Kharkiv..”
    @charlesaje
    incredible reporting from #kharkiv"

    https://twitter.com/StefanieDekker/status/1500832364284493827?s=20&t=RDneajXzNWbYOGm8b7plqQ


    Look at the devastation. Horrific. The centre of the second biggest city in Ukraine is a wasteland of ruins. This raises a pretty important point, even if Russia *wins*, where on earth will they find the money to rebuild half a country? How will they make it habitable again? Who will live there?


    Everything about this war is incomprehensibly dumb, in a Satanic way

    Chechnya is his plan - the rebuilding will take care of itself, eventually.

    For some reason, thinking of this song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGTvNKNguWo
    A truly superb series.
    I find it interesting that so many people missed the message in the end.... that The Machine realised the wining move was - death.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    If Le Pen got 43.5% in the runoff as latest polls suggest that matches what Boris got in 2019 and is only about 3% below what Trump got in 2016 and 2020
    So which of those three is the fascist, cause I really can´t tell
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited March 2022

    The 100-billion-euro package for the Bundeswehr is intended to make the German armed forces the most powerful in Europe, says Minister Christian Lindner

    https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deutschland/militaer-verteidigung/id_91774874/christian-lindner-will-bundeswehr-zur-nummer-1-in-europa-machen.html

    It's not enough for that, even if they sort out their bureaucrats.

    It is about 2.5% of GDP, which covers approx 4-5 years of shortfall - whilst the shortfall has been happening since the millenium at least.

    All it will cover is pothole filling and sticky plasters, plus a little more. The big stuff will come from the 2% commitment, which is about an extra 40% on the previous Defence Budget,

    Here's a piece in Der Spiegel about a memo about what they may want to spend it on that was leaked:
    https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/budgetary-about-face-germany-goes-big-on-defense-spending-a-4c90635e-5de8-4123-b18a-646b0ac13b04

    It includes 20bn Euro to make sure they have enough ammunition stocks.

    They still have minor problems to deal with such as any item over £25m requiring a Parliamentary vote.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    If Le Pen got 43.5% in the runoff as latest polls suggest that matches what Boris got in 2019 and is only about 3% below what Trump got in 2016 and 2020
    That's not like-for-like.

    In the second round in France, there will literally only be two candidates to vote for. Macron + ANOther will add up to 100%. That's not true in the US.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    edited March 2022
    Apologies if already posted, but the TV show that made Zelenskiy famous is on All 4

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/mar/07/zelinskiys-servant-of-the-people-the-tv-show-that-made-ukraines-president
  • I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

    Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.

    Former President Poroshenko:

    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1500842741823160327

    It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    Though even if she did no better with Pecresse voters than Fillon's, she would still do better than in 2017 overall as she is getting more Melenchon voters to vote for her and almost all Zemmour voters would vote for her too.

    Even if Pecresse voters who voted for Macron in the 2017 runoff stay home this time that also is a net gain for Le Pen
    Yes, I think she will do better than in 2017. I think she goes from 34% to 40%. But I don't think she gets to 44% this time around. Without the Ukraine invasion, then she might even have won... but Macron has had a good crisis, and she's been too close to Putin historically.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Eabhal said:

    I think absolute poverty might overtake relative (or 'normal') poverty in the next couple of years.

    As an energetic participant in the "models are good, data is rubbish" debate at Christmas, I concede that the way we calculate poverty might be deeply flawed...

    Extra points to anyone who can explain why.

    Relative poverty is beloved by some because no matter how wealthy everyone becomes, as long as there is inequality, you can still have some in 'poverty'. Imagine giving everyone in the country 100,000 pounds. There would still be people below the relative poverty line, assuming current distributions of wealth. That no-one would be without food, heat and a decent TV wouldn't matter.

    Relative poverty isn't really about poverty at all - its about inequality.
    Poverty has an absolute and relative aspect and both are meaningful. If it were only an absolute concept there'd be no argument to (eg) link the pension to average earnings. Just to inflation would do the trick. But go back and do that calc over say 75 years and see how it looks. It illustrates the point about relative poverty quite well.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    I think you might underestimate truly how many people despise Macron. Pure anecdotally of course but many of our French friends think Macron is a c*nt. Even if they don’t vote for Le Pen (and some will), they won’t vote for Macron, especially if they think he will win.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    I agree with Leon. The German re-armament program represents a more significant challenge to the French world view than it does the British. To the French, a sense of equals is required, whereas the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent, and we are a long way from that. You can call that simplistic, but sometimes, things are simple.

    What do you mean with "the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent"?

    I'm British so I'm keen to see if I relate to it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Leon said:

    This is powerful

    “People you speak to cannot in any way comprehend how the leader of a civilised country like Russia, like Vladimir Putin..could have done this to Kharkiv..”
    @charlesaje
    incredible reporting from #kharkiv"

    https://twitter.com/StefanieDekker/status/1500832364284493827?s=20&t=RDneajXzNWbYOGm8b7plqQ


    Look at the devastation. Horrific. The centre of the second biggest city in Ukraine is a wasteland of ruins. This raises a pretty important point, even if Russia *wins*, where on earth will they find the money to rebuild half a country? How will they make it habitable again? Who will live there?


    Everything about this war is incomprehensibly dumb, in a Satanic way

    A war waged in part on a crusade for 'neutrality' for Ukraine - madness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    If Le Pen got 43.5% in the runoff as latest polls suggest that matches what Boris got in 2019 and is only about 3% below what Trump got in 2016 and 2020
    That's not like-for-like.

    In the second round in France, there will literally only be two candidates to vote for. Macron + ANOther will add up to 100%. That's not true in the US.
    It effectively is in the US, 98.2% of US voters voted for Biden or Trump in 2020
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    I think you might underestimate truly how many people despise Macron. Pure anecdotally of course but many of our French friends think Macron is a c*nt. Even if they don’t vote for Le Pen (and some will), they won’t vote for Macron, especially if they think he will win.
    My gut - and it's only a gut, I have no special insight - is that the Ukraine war will probably result in a few people sitting out the second round, who might otherwise have voted Le Pen.

    Not a massive number, but it Macron's had a good war, and Le Pen has been friendly with Putin.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    MattW said:

    The 100-billion-euro package for the Bundeswehr is intended to make the German armed forces the most powerful in Europe, says Minister Christian Lindner

    https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deutschland/militaer-verteidigung/id_91774874/christian-lindner-will-bundeswehr-zur-nummer-1-in-europa-machen.html

    It's not enough for that, even if they sort out their bureaucrats.

    It is about 2.5% of GDP, which covers approx 4-5 years of shortfall - whilst the shortfall has been happening since the millenium at least.

    All it will cover is pothole filling and sticky plasters, plus a little more. The big stuff will come from the 2% commitment, which is about an extra 40% on the previous Defence Budget,

    Here's a piece in Der Spiegel about a memo about what they may want to spend it on that was leaked:
    https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/budgetary-about-face-germany-goes-big-on-defense-spending-a-4c90635e-5de8-4123-b18a-646b0ac13b04

    It includes 20bn Euro to make sure they have enough ammunition stocks.

    They still have minor problems to deal with such as any item over £25m requiring a Parliamentary vote.

    Last line Euro not £.
  • One for Leon. Phwoarrrr etc, etc.

    It’s terrible to reduce what they’re doing and the horrible reason why they’re doing it to admiring their hotness. But, y’know, phwoarrrr. I’m pretty liberal and, though I dislike the term, Woke, I guess. But my word they’re attractive young women.

    I’m 44. I should know better.



    https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1500535656195543048?s=21
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    Not as many as when the line was used with her dad. Getting 40 or thereabouts would be progress, but clear the Le Pens have gone as far as they can.
  • Boris signalling a review of UK energy supply and in particular the granting of licences for UK own oil and gas development

    Cambo ?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

    Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.

    Former President Poroshenko:

    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1500842741823160327

    It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
    The issue we have with most immigrants is that they intentionally destroy any paperwork they have.

    Here it should be incredibly simple, show a Ukrainian Passport and all the confirmation needed is contained within it.

    Patel and others really are showing exactly what they are made of - racist, xenophobic idiots...
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited March 2022
    Protest in a small town (pop: sub-10k) near Crimea. That's a lot of protestors for a small town, and a big Rosgvardia force.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500853580877680645

    Kherson protests are getting a bit more aggressive, with some very outnumbered russians: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500855921567748097
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    kinabalu said:

    I agree with Leon. The German re-armament program represents a more significant challenge to the French world view than it does the British. To the French, a sense of equals is required, whereas the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent, and we are a long way from that. You can call that simplistic, but sometimes, things are simple.

    What do you mean with "the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent"?

    I'm British so I'm keen to see if I relate to it.
    I don't think individual Britons really have this as an intended outcome. It's too abstract. But British foreign policy going back at least to Napoleon has been to try to prevent any one continental power in Europe becoming too powerful - typically by alliances with or support for the continent's second most powerful power.
    In the early twentieth century the entente cordiale was arguably more driven by the fact that Britain and France represented similar political cultures, in contrast to that of Germany and Austria-Hungary. Though we did end up with Russia on our side too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    Exactly this - Johnson is not accused of overriding the original security assessment.

    It is that the component that led to the original rejection was changed/altered/withdrawn

    This, sources say, happened after the PM made it known in No10 that he would not drop the matter
    https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/1500820906851119106

    I am sure Mr Cummings will be able to clarify what exactly went on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    I agree with Leon. The German re-armament program represents a more significant challenge to the French world view than it does the British. To the French, a sense of equals is required, whereas the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent, and we are a long way from that. You can call that simplistic, but sometimes, things are simple.

    What do you mean with "the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent"?

    I'm British so I'm keen to see if I relate to it.
    I don't think individual Britons really have this as an intended outcome. It's too abstract. But British foreign policy going back at least to Napoleon has been to try to prevent any one continental power in Europe becoming too powerful - typically by alliances with or support for the continent's second most powerful power.
    In the early twentieth century the entente cordiale was arguably more driven by the fact that Britain and France represented similar political cultures, in contrast to that of Germany and Austria-Hungary. Though we did end up with Russia on our side too.
    "try to prevent any one continental power in Europe becoming too powerful " - Since before the War of the Spanish Succession, at least.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021

    The trouble with the current version of Brexit is that the losses - chronic ones generally, like this and a thousand other petty annoyances in international supply chains - are not catastrophic enough to force a change of direction, but nor are the positives or opportunities significant enough to justify the slow motion pain.

    In most cases Brexit has just added a couple of line items to the cost basis of moving goods and services across borders, or triggered the need for a duplicate function on the continent. Large multinationals just write this off as a cost of business in the same way excessive labour force regulation in some European countries, capital controls in countries like South Africa, or withholding taxes out of places like Brazil are written off. A few smaller traders are squeezed out of the market but their voices are quiet.

    In related news I had an hour in the diary booked this afternoon for a brainstorming session to try to identify some "Brexit benefits" for us to feed into HMT and DIT but it's been cancelled (or postponed) due to other news being more pressing. The fact we're all scratching our heads to find things beyond hypothetical examples of regulatory divergence that aren't actually happening is evidence of the issue.

    This is all compounded by Brexit becoming a taboo topic. The only people vocalising about it are either reciting empty charts about getting Brexit done and returning to imperial weights and measures, or they're FBPEs blaming everything from Putin to climate change on Brexit. There is a vacuum where sensible trade-focused debate should be.
    I agree - and I don't think that sensible trade-focused debate can happen as the political well has been poisoned.

    If we looked at this afresh now with zero baggage we would see a simple problem with a simple solution: The UK and EU are almost entirely aligned on almost everything to do with trade and likely to continue to be for the foreseeable. So the obvious thing to do would be to remove the barriers making trade across these aligned markets easy and cheap.
    Was that not always the case though. The sticking point was and remains 'free movement'. Compromise should and could have been reached and the referendum would have been won for Remain. I'm not sure that issue has changed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    Not as many as when the line was used with her dad. Getting 40 or thereabouts would be progress, but clear the Le Pens have gone as far as they can.
    I think you - like most people - miss just how far Le Pen has moved the FN towards the centre. It's no coincidence that Zemmour and Dupont-Aignan started hoovering up votes - it's because of how far the FN has tacked.

    Ms Le Pen threw her own father out the party. She started a (pretty successful) campaign to get a more diverse set of candidates from multi-ethnic backgrounds. She abandoned her support for a Euro-referendum, and now says France's membership of the EU and the Euro is "settled". She even took a trip to Davos.

    Today, what distinguishes her most from Macron or Pecresse is simply that she wants the French government to go around subsidising inefficient French heavy industry. A policy which - sadly - misdiagnoses what is wrong with the French economy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    d_d said:

    Regarding peacekeeping in Ukraine Macron has achieved nothing so far. The rising commodities prices hitting French consumers will take its tall on his re-election odds

    What peace is there to keep in Ukraine, exactly?

    Preventing war was a lost cause, but going to Moscow to have a go at that was a sensible thing to try.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    d_d said:

    Regarding peacekeeping in Ukraine Macron has achieved nothing so far. The rising commodities prices hitting French consumers will take its tall on his re-election odds

    Although France is insulated against rising electricity prices in a way no other European country is,

    Compared to the UK, French consumers are going to be hit much less hard.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148

    Boris signalling a review of UK energy supply and in particular the granting of licences for UK own oil and gas development

    Cambo ?

    Do we have any current fields that are not producing?

    A good help for the economy in 2023/4, perhaps?
  • Patel tells the HOC the figures in the media for visas are absolutely inaccurate and the official figures will be released this evening
  • Chameleon said:

    IanB2 said:

    'Lord' Lebedev's pet dog is called Boris. Really.

    Named after Yeltsin.
    Yeah, that's what he tells people! ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Chameleon said:

    Protest in a small town (pop: sub-10k) near Crimea. That's a lot of protestors for a small town, and a big Rosgvardia force.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500853580877680645

    Kherson protests are getting a bit more aggressive, with some very outnumbered russians: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500855921567748097

    And this is the real challenge for Russia. Can they garrison the cities of the East and still sufficient troops to advance towards Lviv. I'm sceptical.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

    Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.

    Former President Poroshenko:

    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1500842741823160327

    It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
    Ah, there you go again, pretending that the situation of people in Ukraine trying to get into Poland is identical to people in France trying to get into the UK.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    MattW said:

    Boris signalling a review of UK energy supply and in particular the granting of licences for UK own oil and gas development

    Cambo ?

    Do we have any current fields that are not producing?

    A good help for the economy in 2023/4, perhaps?
    Well, there are lots of non-producing fields - but getting them producing again is a far from simple task, especially for off-shore, and especially given that the world has moved away from fixed drilling platforms.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    edited March 2022
    Leon said:

    Genuine lol


    “Massive mobilisation now in process in Russia”



    https://twitter.com/juliaskripkaser/status/1500853549202386945?s=21

    The new series of "Wacky Races - Russia" looking interesting.
  • MattW said:

    Boris signalling a review of UK energy supply and in particular the granting of licences for UK own oil and gas development

    Cambo ?

    Do we have any current fields that are not producing?

    A good help for the economy in 2023/4, perhaps?
    I do not know but it looks like Boris is signalling that oil and gas will be developed in the UK as a transition process
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited March 2022
    eek said:

    I, like many others, have been dismayed at some of the reports about how the UK is managing Ukrainian refugees. If Priti Patel really has screwed this up in the way it has been reported then she needs to be removed ASAP. Emergencies like this soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

    Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be affecting the positive way UK is seen in Ukraine itself, where the early efforts to support, supply and train seem to be appreciated. Looks like that investment was well worth it, to say the least.

    Former President Poroshenko:

    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1500842741823160327

    It isn't if. Its a fact. We are not letting refugees in without an approved visa which they have to complete somewhere else. This is a unique way to handle refugees where HM Border Force turn away people fleeing the war and stop them coming to stay with friends / relatives.
    The issue we have with most immigrants is that they intentionally destroy any paperwork they have.

    Here it should be incredibly simple, show a Ukrainian Passport and all the confirmation needed is contained within it.

    Patel and others really are showing exactly what they are made of - racist, xenophobic idiots...
    The Home Office is stuck in a mould where lots of people want to cheat to get into the UK. They don't have the intellectual flexibility to change to a different mode of thinking. It's not exactly xenophobic and definitely not racist.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Leon said:

    Genuine lol


    “Massive mobilisation now in process in Russia”



    https://twitter.com/juliaskripkaser/status/1500853549202386945?s=21

    IDFK is a 1980s Lada Niva. Say it quietly, otherwise @Dura_Ace will get a little over-excited.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Macron does look likely to be re elected.

    However in a runoff against Le Pen, who is now second in most polls, it will be closer to 55% 45% than the 66% to 34% he beat her by in 2017.

    There may be more likelihood of change in the legislative elections in June where Les Republicains have a chance of taking control from En Marche

    Agreed re legislative elections. But not convinced Le Pen will do quite that well in the run off: I suspect 40% may be her limit this time around.
    She is on 43.5% in the latest poll for the runoff but we will see
    I suspect that her friendship with Putin is not going to help her in the second round: my gut is that lots of her more marginal supporters stay at home.
    The poll was taken after Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Le Pen has also sensibly condemned the invasion
    The war becomes less popular in the West with every image sent back from the Ukraine. And - like it or not - Le Pen's friendship with Putin is going to be ruthlessly publicised over the course of the campaign.

    And that's why I think a lot of the Pecresse supporters stay home rather than vote Le Pen this year.

    Of course, I may be wrong. But I suspect that the polls have not yet caught up with reality.
    It’s fair to say that a large degree of French voters truly hate Macron. That may be a stronger factor.
    The strongest factor in Macron-vs-Le Pen will be "vote for anyone but the fascist"

    It doesn't matter what she does, for a solid majority of French people, that's what she is.
    Not as many as when the line was used with her dad. Getting 40 or thereabouts would be progress, but clear the Le Pens have gone as far as they can.
    I think you - like most people - miss just how far Le Pen has moved the FN towards the centre. It's no coincidence that Zemmour and Dupont-Aignan started hoovering up votes - it's because of how far the FN has tacked.

    Ms Le Pen threw her own father out the party. She started a (pretty successful) campaign to get a more diverse set of candidates from multi-ethnic backgrounds. She abandoned her support for a Euro-referendum, and now says France's membership of the EU and the Euro is "settled". She even took a trip to Davos.

    Today, what distinguishes her most from Macron or Pecresse is simply that she wants the French government to go around subsidising inefficient French heavy industry. A policy which - sadly - misdiagnoses what is wrong with the French economy.
    To my French friends, a Le Pen is a Le Pen. They will put clothes pegs on their noses and vote against her, no matter who for, in the last round.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Patel tells the HOC the figures in the media for visas are absolutely inaccurate and the official figures will be released this evening

    51 not 50?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Chameleon said:

    Protest in a small town (pop: sub-10k) near Crimea. That's a lot of protestors for a small town, and a big Rosgvardia force.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500853580877680645

    Kherson protests are getting a bit more aggressive, with some very outnumbered russians: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500855921567748097

    Brave people,
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    I agree with Leon. The German re-armament program represents a more significant challenge to the French world view than it does the British. To the French, a sense of equals is required, whereas the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent, and we are a long way from that. You can call that simplistic, but sometimes, things are simple.

    What do you mean with "the British merely want to prevent hegemony on the European continent"?

    I'm British so I'm keen to see if I relate to it.
    I don't think individual Britons really have this as an intended outcome. It's too abstract. But British foreign policy going back at least to Napoleon has been to try to prevent any one continental power in Europe becoming too powerful - typically by alliances with or support for the continent's second most powerful power.
    In the early twentieth century the entente cordiale was arguably more driven by the fact that Britain and France represented similar political cultures, in contrast to that of Germany and Austria-Hungary. Though we did end up with Russia on our side too.
    It's quite startling that @kinabalu is apparently unaware of this extremely well-known history

    As I've said before, he's a bright guy with a notably narrow mind, settled contentedly in his views
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Chameleon said:

    Protest in a small town (pop: sub-10k) near Crimea. That's a lot of protestors for a small town, and a big Rosgvardia force.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500853580877680645

    Kherson protests are getting a bit more aggressive, with some very outnumbered russians: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500855921567748097

    One of the key historical photos of this war will be the small farmers dragged away bits of RU military hardware using tractors. There must be dozens of vids of this happening now.


    Fuck you Russia.
  • felix said:

    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Revealed: The debate about Brexit's impact on Britain's automotive sector is to be revived by a decision by components supplier TMS to shift manufacturing capacity to the Continent, a decision that it will blame in part on the UK's departure from the EU. https://news.sky.com/story/140-jobs-affected-as-automotive-components-supplier-tms-axes-uk-operation-12560021

    The trouble with the current version of Brexit is that the losses - chronic ones generally, like this and a thousand other petty annoyances in international supply chains - are not catastrophic enough to force a change of direction, but nor are the positives or opportunities significant enough to justify the slow motion pain.

    In most cases Brexit has just added a couple of line items to the cost basis of moving goods and services across borders, or triggered the need for a duplicate function on the continent. Large multinationals just write this off as a cost of business in the same way excessive labour force regulation in some European countries, capital controls in countries like South Africa, or withholding taxes out of places like Brazil are written off. A few smaller traders are squeezed out of the market but their voices are quiet.

    In related news I had an hour in the diary booked this afternoon for a brainstorming session to try to identify some "Brexit benefits" for us to feed into HMT and DIT but it's been cancelled (or postponed) due to other news being more pressing. The fact we're all scratching our heads to find things beyond hypothetical examples of regulatory divergence that aren't actually happening is evidence of the issue.

    This is all compounded by Brexit becoming a taboo topic. The only people vocalising about it are either reciting empty charts about getting Brexit done and returning to imperial weights and measures, or they're FBPEs blaming everything from Putin to climate change on Brexit. There is a vacuum where sensible trade-focused debate should be.
    I agree - and I don't think that sensible trade-focused debate can happen as the political well has been poisoned.

    If we looked at this afresh now with zero baggage we would see a simple problem with a simple solution: The UK and EU are almost entirely aligned on almost everything to do with trade and likely to continue to be for the foreseeable. So the obvious thing to do would be to remove the barriers making trade across these aligned markets easy and cheap.
    Was that not always the case though. The sticking point was and remains 'free movement'. Compromise should and could have been reached and the referendum would have been won for Remain. I'm not sure that issue has changed.
    Things have moved on. We have Stopped free movement (including our willingness to take Ukrainians fleeing death) and yet the sunlit uplands promised get further and further away.

    We are capable now of agreeing alignment of terms with the EU as a non-member associate without having the door wide open to anyone. Besides which we aren't the most attractive country for the Schrodinger's forrin to come and take both our jobs and our benefits. They're really not welcome, so I doubt there would be a mad influx.
  • Patel tells the HOC the figures in the media for visas are absolutely inaccurate and the official figures will be released this evening

    51 not 50?
    Patel made the statement at the dispatch box so it had better be a lot more than 51
  • Patel tells the HOC the figures in the media for visas are absolutely inaccurate and the official figures will be released this evening

    I will be delighted to hear the official number of people we are forcing to stay away from the UK whilst uniquely in Europe we force them to fill in forms and await bureaucracy to do its thing.

    Why can't we just let them in like civilised countries are doing?
Sign In or Register to comment.