I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff
The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?
Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
As has been pointed out, an interruption to electrical supply to the cooling for the nuclear waste ponds could be pretty dangerous, too. 'They didn't actually hit the reactor' is not particularly reassuring.
I'll take all those old fuel rods off their hands, no problem. I can recycle them...
Your shed sounds even more interesting than that of @Dura_Ace ...
Sadly, haven't got one at the moment - using various facilities, until we get the new house sorted.
Partner unhappy about the state of the washing machine, then ?
Suspect a period of stagflation fuelled by a faraway foreign conflict of which the electorate grows tired, may be the Achilles heel of this government. That and an egregious cock-up being never far away.
Johnson seemed to do a new, offensive thing every 6-9 months so we are about due. Probably overdue for a fresh money related scandal. We'll have to wait and see who is paying for his 2022 summer holiday because he fucking won't be.
I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff
The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?
Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
As has been pointed out, an interruption to electrical supply to the cooling for the nuclear waste ponds could be pretty dangerous, too. 'They didn't actually hit the reactor' is not particularly reassuring.
I'll take all those old fuel rods off their hands, no problem. I can recycle them...
Your shed sounds even more interesting than that of @Dura_Ace ...
Sadly, haven't got one at the moment - using various facilities, until we get the new house sorted.
Partner unhappy about the state of the washing machine, then ?
Ha - not using the dishwasher to clean materials, no. A lot of the stuff I work with is in aluminium anyway, which a dishwasher would completely bugger up.
Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.
NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.
Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?
He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.
Carole can be a tad one note, but honestly: can you come up with /any/ sensible reason for Gavin Williamson to be knighted at this specific point in time? (Lets put aside the absurdity of knighting Gavin Williamson at all for the moment...)
It’s not even gong-passing out season, so this is clearly something that Gavin has been able to insist happens right now & not at some later time.
Suspect this was part of the deal for him to leave quietly. We won’t be able to give it you now, but let’s b/f it a few months - say early March next year?
Pretty sure he knows where a few bodies are buried. After all, he was Chief Whip.
And, more generally, Johnson has done more to devalue the honours system than anyone, including Harold Wilson and Lloyd George. At least Charles II's mistresses had to perform useful services for him before being ennobled.
Suspect a period of stagflation fuelled by a faraway foreign conflict of which the electorate grows tired, may be the Achilles heel of this government. That and an egregious cock-up being never far away.
Johnson seemed to do a new, offensive thing every 6-9 months so we are about due. Probably overdue for a fresh money related scandal. We'll have to wait and see who is paying for his 2022 summer holiday because he fucking won't be.
Supposedly he cant, which is frankly scandal in itself. What person on 140k a year, a decrease on what he used to get, cannot afford anything?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military... Hope you can open this, large column of British armour heading at speed for the Estonia/Russian border, tanks etc, this is part of the 1800 UK led battle group for that state, being supported by 300 French arriving there within 24 hours. So it begins?
Your link doesn't work, and it would be weird if it did since it seems to be to something in the car features section.
Inflation is not going away and will get very ugly later in the year.
Boris gets to blame Russia though. All economic disruption becomes Covid or Russia and any issue from Brexit are lost in the margins. If he can be seen to be tough on the first two, and a “strong leader” he might do ok out of this politically.
Who the feck cares about Brexit anymore? Might as well have been an event in the last century now.
We are quite possibly only days away from a war across europe.
Indeed, Boris thought he'd put the pandemic to bed (that's not true anyway) and that it was full-speed ahead with Levelling Up and Build Back Better. None of that is happening now, litterally only one thing matters now, stopping Putin before he starts World War III. Even if Putin has the Russian army turn around today the Western world has to abruptly change what it has been doing for decades and prepare for the worst, because until Putin is dead and long gone we cannot trust Russia to not repeat the attack on Ukraine.
Yep. Totally agree.
Johnson's domestic agenda is done. Toast. Caput. We are at war in all but name.
We need to pivot massively. And I mean massively.
Not sure Johnson is up to it to be honest, but we are stuck with him now. No way MPs will move against him in the current crisis.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military... Hope you can open this, large column of British armour heading at speed for the Estonia/Russian border, tanks etc, this is part of the 1800 UK led battle group for that state, being supported by 300 French arriving there within 24 hours. So it begins?
Your link doesn't work, and it would be weird if it did since it seems to be to something in the car features section.
I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.
A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
Like old man Steptoe
That was a horrific sight indeed.
Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
Great programme in its day mind you , both of them played their parts brilliantly.
They did and although they didn’t get on they ended up stuck with each other as their other work dried up so they ended up touring for several years. BBC4, a few years back, did an excellent drama about the two and their relationship. When Steptoe met Son. Jason Isaacs and Phil Davis were very good in it.
I presume this bollocks is for domestic consumption only ? https://twitter.com/polinaivanovva/status/1499716111188860928 Extraordinary comments from Putin just now. Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize
Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.
NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.
Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?
He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.
Carole can be a tad one note, but honestly: can you come up with /any/ sensible reason for Gavin Williamson to be knighted at this specific point in time? (Lets put aside the absurdity of knighting Gavin Williamson at all for the moment...)
It’s not even gong-passing out season, so this is clearly something that Gavin has been able to insist happens right now & not at some later time.
It's definitely not this, but if Gav has volunteered to don blue and yellow and head to Kyiv this weekend it would make the timing reasonable.
I thought penal battalions had gone out of favour.
Which possibly = famine in Egypt, which is hugely dependent on Ukrainian wheat exports
Last time wheat and rice prices soared, in spring 2011, it triggered the Arab spring. That was related to Australian drought (and exacerbated by drought in the Med), so a climatic trigger. This one is a geopolitical trigger.
The one climatological actor in this war is temperature. The mild winter and early spring in Ukraine has meant the mud season starting early and kept Russian armoured vehicles to roads, where (in the North) they've been getting stuck. In the drier South that seems to be less of a problem.
It's turning cold (sub-zero) for a couple of days, before warming up again. Probably not cold enough to freeze the ground fully.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
For all that this outpouring of humanity has been heartening to see, the contrast with what happened to Syrian refugees in exactly the same countries is hard to ignore and rather tragic.
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.
A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
Like old man Steptoe
That was a horrific sight indeed.
Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize. "We see no need to exacerbate the situation or worsen our relations," Putin said. "I think everyone should think about normalising relations and cooperating normally.""
Starting to realise that they've screwed up? Massive disconnect from the Macron call, so maybe this is for domestic consumption to claim that the West is persecuting him?
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
Your last paragraph is nonsensical. You don't try to fire anything anywhere near a nuclear reactor complex. It's that simple.
For all that this outpouring of humanity has been heartening to see, the contrast with what happened to Syrian refugees in exactly the same countries is hard to ignore and rather tragic.
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
David Cameron's advisors could not contain their fury at Labour's decision not to back military action in Syria until after the conclusion of a UN inspection and report.
“No 10 and the Foreign Office think Ed Miliband is a f***ing c**t and a copper-bottomed shit. The French hate him now and he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party,” one Government source told The Times.
I presume this bollocks is for domestic consumption only ? https://twitter.com/polinaivanovva/status/1499716111188860928 Extraordinary comments from Putin just now. Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize
Sounds desperate , moaning about the sanctions which apparently were no problem for Russia last week .
I'm not about to do a multivariate regression, but in 2021 for every $1 Brent Crude rose, pump prices rose 1.42p/l. Brent Crude would therefore need to rise a further 33% or so for pump prices to hit £2 a litre. Not quite as reassuring as other methods of calculation.
My analysis did seem to suggest that in part, retailers actually soak their fixed costs and don't pass them on at the pump in the way you would expect. Perhaps this is driven by other sales at petrol stations or tie-ins to supermarkets.
Also worth considering that 67% of the cost of a litre of petrol (more for diesel) goes to the Government in tax and VAT. They are not helpless in this and could, if they chose, mitigate the price rises at the pumps.
Whether they should or not is obviously a matter of opinion but that is a political decision.
I presume this bollocks is for domestic consumption only ? https://twitter.com/polinaivanovva/status/1499716111188860928 Extraordinary comments from Putin just now. Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize
Basically, he sees Ukraine as Russian territory, and therefore not a neighbour.
Sadly, the international community have disagreed with him over this for a few decades.
For this reason, it would be good to know what he defines 'neighbours' as.
We should normalise nothing until he removes troops from Ukraine.
For all that this outpouring of humanity has been heartening to see, the contrast with what happened to Syrian refugees in exactly the same countries is hard to ignore and rather tragic.
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
Not to mention us turning a blind eye to what's happened in Yemen, though being somewhat more complicit in that hot mess and the inhabitants being really quite brown may explain that.
I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.
A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
Like old man Steptoe
That was a horrific sight indeed.
Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize. "We see no need to exacerbate the situation or worsen our relations," Putin said. "I think everyone should think about normalising relations and cooperating normally.""
Starting to realise that they've screwed up? Massive disconnect from the Macron call, so maybe this is for domestic consumption to claim that the West is persecuting him?
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
I generally agree with most of your post, but the last bit seems unlikely to me. People love to see strategy, where in fact, there is none. Most likely hyped-up, poorly trained soldiers in a firefight that spilled over to the nuclear complex.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
Your last paragraph is nonsensical. You don't try to fire anything anywhere near a nuclear reactor complex. It's that simple.
I agree. It speaks to me of an indisciplined and incompetent force rather than some clever plan.
That would of course be consistent with much we have seen from the Russian Army and Government in recent weeks.
The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .
What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .
Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .
The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
We need to distinguish between what we would ideally like to happen and what actually is now possible.
From here, if Zelensky saves 80 per cent of the Ukraine from becoming a smoking & desolate ruin, that is an excellent result.
Putin will die or be killed sooner or later, and a saner Russian leader will emerge.
Your final six words are a tad optimistic. The form book may suggest otherwise.
I'm not about to do a multivariate regression, but in 2021 for every $1 Brent Crude rose, pump prices rose 1.42p/l. Brent Crude would therefore need to rise a further 33% or so for pump prices to hit £2 a litre. Not quite as reassuring as other methods of calculation.
My analysis did seem to suggest that in part, retailers actually soak their fixed costs and don't pass them on at the pump in the way you would expect. Perhaps this is driven by other sales at petrol stations or tie-ins to supermarkets.
Also worth considering that 67% of the cost of a litre of petrol (more for diesel) goes to the Government in tax and VAT. They are not helpless in this and could, if they chose, mitigate the price rises at the pumps.
Whether they should or not is obviously a matter of opinion but that is a political decision.
At £1.50/l, the government takes 55% of that in duty and VAT. The duty rates are the same petrol/disel and at the moment, so are pump prices.
However, your point stands that were petrol to go towards £2, it is possible they would be cut. However, my expectation is they would only do so as a result of market shock, and the government would only react after, so for the purpose of the header, the £2 would still be reached.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
I'm not sure about Nato membership being the issue. I think we should have imposed further sanctions once the Russian build up on the Ukrainian border was clear. It was doing real damage to the Ukrainian economy which in and of itself was justification for sanctions.
Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize. "We see no need to exacerbate the situation or worsen our relations," Putin said. "I think everyone should think about normalising relations and cooperating normally.""
Starting to realise that they've screwed up? Massive disconnect from the Macron call, so maybe this is for domestic consumption to claim that the West is persecuting him?
And confuse the West.
It is possible, if unlikely, that an olive branch is being extended. Time for President Macron to get back on the phone, perhaps.
Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize. "We see no need to exacerbate the situation or worsen our relations," Putin said. "I think everyone should think about normalising relations and cooperating normally.""
Starting to realise that they've screwed up? Massive disconnect from the Macron call, so maybe this is for domestic consumption to claim that the West is persecuting him?
And confuse the West.
Nobody is confused.
Putin is a lying tnuc. Lots of people knew it before, now the world does.
The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .
What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .
Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .
The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
We need to distinguish between what we would ideally like to happen and what actually is now possible.
From here, if Zelensky saves 80 per cent of the Ukraine from becoming a smoking & desolate ruin, that is an excellent result.
Putin will die or be killed sooner or later, and a saner Russian leader will emerge.
Your final six words are a tad optimistic. The form book may suggest otherwise.
There is an old chestnut to the effect that every chapter in Russian history ends with the words, and then things got worse.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
A NFZ means a total no holds bar war of utter destruction, NATO vs Russia.
The 'something must be done now brigade' need to sit down and calmly think what that means for them and their families and their country.
I remain confident that Biden will veto any such plan at this stage.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
I thought UAPs were especially active around such places. Perhaps a false flag operation run by the Arcturans?
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
I'm not sure about Nato membership being the issue. I think we should have imposed further sanctions once the Russian build up on the Ukrainian border was clear. It was doing real damage to the Ukrainian economy which in and of itself was justification for sanctions.
The only reason the sanctions are working so well is because they are being applied indiscriminately across the whole of industry and across the world. You’d never have got such consensus to apply such strong sanctions prior to an invasion. All you’d have had was Putin using them as a propaganda device to argue he was forced to invade by those evil westerners acting in a hostile way to impoverish we entirely innocent Russians.
I have moved areas and in the interregnum between the old social media policy and the new I believe I am allowed to post within certain parameters. Given that, you may be interested to know the following details on how to donate to appeals for the Ukraine
We have speculated about Putin's health here recently. We've also made comments about timing and readiness: we're a little puzzled that he invaded now, rather than in two months' time. Could it be that his health is even worse than we thought? That his time left can be measured in months rather than years? Is that the imperative for acting now?
The question of why now is probably just the Olympics and not further pissing off China.
Yes, I think so. The idea Putin is sick - other than in the head - strikes me as wishful speculation. He might be but I can't see the evidence. He looks ok to me.
That moon face is either botched surgery or corticosteroids, and I don't think he's a facial procedure kinda guy. That plus the insane distancing stuff: Trump has a germ phobia but that has always been known. It is more likely that it is rational because he is immunocompromised than that it's a phobia which has come from nowhere. I think he has got cancer.
Well that'd be nice - but I'm not really seeing it myself. His face does look kind of round and punchable but I'm putting that down to other things, esp the latter quality.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
I generally agree with most of your post, but the last bit seems unlikely to me. People love to see strategy, where in fact, there is none. Most likely hyped-up, poorly trained soldiers in a firefight that spilled over to the nuclear complex.
Perhaps. And it’s a terrible idea to be firing weapons any where in that area. But we should not let our emotions lull us into a far more reckless action, when in the cold light of day the risk of meltdown was orders of magnitude lower than it may have seemed at 3am.
I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.
A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
Like old man Steptoe
That was a horrific sight indeed.
Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
"Dapper" being code for something else back in the sixties.
It was always apparent that a war in Ukraine was going to send a wave of refugees across Europe. I didn't anticipate that such a significant number of the people fleeing would be Russians leaving Russia. https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1499717062675030017
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
You don't need to shoot down Russian planes in Russia. You just don't enforce the NFZ within 20 miles of the Russian border.
Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize. "We see no need to exacerbate the situation or worsen our relations," Putin said. "I think everyone should think about normalising relations and cooperating normally.""
Starting to realise that they've screwed up? Massive disconnect from the Macron call, so maybe this is for domestic consumption to claim that the West is persecuting him?
And confuse the West.
Nobody is confused.
Putin is a lying tnuc. Lots of people knew it before, now the world does.
It's very true. Russian propaganda pushes the line tat no one "understands" them.
The problem for them is that now everyone understands perfectly what Russia led by Putin means.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
You don't need to shoot down Russian planes in Russia. You just don't enforce the NFZ within 20 miles of the Russian border.
You either impose a no fly zone or you don’t. If you do, you have to suppress all enemy air defence in range to keep your aircraft flying, as well as shoot down theirs. As many have said, it’s war. It’s also impossible to do in Ukraine without the US so it’s Biden’s call and he ain’t moving.
The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .
What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .
Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .
The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
We need to distinguish between what we would ideally like to happen and what actually is now possible.
From here, if Zelensky saves 80 per cent of the Ukraine from becoming a smoking & desolate ruin, that is an excellent result.
Putin will die or be killed sooner or later, and a saner Russian leader will emerge.
Your final six words are a tad optimistic. The form book may suggest otherwise.
There is scant reassurance out there, but a scan of a few Wikipedia entries is worthwhile I think.
- Cuban Missile Crisis - it's clear we got very much closer to actual direct confrontation (including depth charges against a Russian sub and US planes being shot down) than we are currently - Franco and the Spanish Civil war - the bloody annihilation strategy Franco practised against Republican cities and his Putin-like attitude to the breakaway regions are horrific, but eventually he calmed down. It's not impossible. - Iran-Iraq war: an evil totalitarian dictator vs a fanatical theocracy, both armed with modern weapons, got bogged down and eventually petered out. Saddam then stayed quiet until Gulf War 1, and Iran has not fought a direct confrontation since, just indulged in proxy conflicts.
I think recency bias means we look at what's happening and think it's more unprecedented than it really is.
We have speculated about Putin's health here recently. We've also made comments about timing and readiness: we're a little puzzled that he invaded now, rather than in two months' time. Could it be that his health is even worse than we thought? That his time left can be measured in months rather than years? Is that the imperative for acting now?
The question of why now is probably just the Olympics and not further pissing off China.
Yes, I think so. The idea Putin is sick - other than in the head - strikes me as wishful speculation. He might be but I can't see the evidence. He looks ok to me.
That moon face is either botched surgery or corticosteroids, and I don't think he's a facial procedure kinda guy. That plus the insane distancing stuff: Trump has a germ phobia but that has always been known. It is more likely that it is rational because he is immunocompromised than that it's a phobia which has come from nowhere. I think he has got cancer.
Well that'd be nice - but I'm not really seeing it myself. His face does look kind of round and punchable but I'm putting that down to other things, esp the latter quality.
I was on a call last night and the woman whom I was speaking to (a senior figure in the media world) was saying that look of Putin's is totally from plastic surgery
It was always apparent that a war in Ukraine was going to send a wave of refugees across Europe. I didn't anticipate that such a significant number of the people fleeing would be Russians leaving Russia. https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1499717062675030017
I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.
A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
Like old man Steptoe
That was a horrific sight indeed.
Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
Despite the heroic Ukraine defence NATO Secretary, Jens Stoltenberg, has just condemned Ukraine to a slow death and eventual Putin puppet state status - No NATO no fly zone or troops on the ground. The cheers you hear come from the Kremlin.
Sudetenland and Czechoslavakia 1938 rinse and repeat.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
I'm not sure about Nato membership being the issue. I think we should have imposed further sanctions once the Russian build up on the Ukrainian border was clear. It was doing real damage to the Ukrainian economy which in and of itself was justification for sanctions.
In retrospect yes, but they probably didn't want to provoke the invasion which many thought might not actually happen.
For all that this outpouring of humanity has been heartening to see, the contrast with what happened to Syrian refugees in exactly the same countries is hard to ignore and rather tragic.
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
Not to mention us turning a blind eye to what's happened in Yemen, though being somewhat more complicit in that hot mess and the inhabitants being really quite brown may explain that.
UK aided and abetted in Yemen and still doing so. Criminal.
Speak for yourself. You might not want them here but many in the U.K. do. Never had you down as anti-refugee Scott.
It sounds like the sort of kind and well-meaning gesture that could be counter-productive and cause massive chaos for the authorities trying to manage the situation.
Despite the heroic Ukraine defence NATO Secretary, Jens Stoltenberg, has just condemned Ukraine to a slow death and eventual Putin puppet state status - No NATO no fly zone or troops on the ground. The cheers you hear come from the Kremlin.
Sudetenland and Czechoslavakia 1938 rinse and repeat.
Missed this on QT last night. SNP doubling down on stripping away UK's nuclear deterrence.
The guy with his head in his hands is Konstantin Kisin, a kind of Russian version of Volodymyr Zelensky, ie, comedian going into politics. Sadly, not much chance of him being elected president anytime soon.
Speak for yourself. You might not want them here but many in the U.K. do. Never had you down as anti-refugee Scott.
It sounds like the sort of kind and well-meaning gesture that could be counter-productive and cause massive chaos for the authorities trying to manage the situation.
Leave it to government then? Unexpected from a Tory.
For all that this outpouring of humanity has been heartening to see, the contrast with what happened to Syrian refugees in exactly the same countries is hard to ignore and rather tragic.
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
David Cameron's advisors could not contain their fury at Labour's decision not to back military action in Syria until after the conclusion of a UN inspection and report.
“No 10 and the Foreign Office think Ed Miliband is a f***ing c**t and a copper-bottomed shit. The French hate him now and he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party,” one Government source told The Times.
There is a good case to be made that Ed Miliband has (inadvertently) had the worst impact of any Brit in recent history. Brexit, Corbyn and Syria decision. Not to mention the ******* Climate Change Act.
I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.
A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
Like old man Steptoe
That was a horrific sight indeed.
Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
"Dapper" being code for something else back in the sixties.
Despite the heroic Ukraine defence NATO Secretary, Jens Stoltenberg, has just condemned Ukraine to a slow death and eventual Putin puppet state status - No NATO no fly zone or troops on the ground. The cheers you hear come from the Kremlin.
Sudetenland and Czechoslavakia 1938 rinse and repeat.
Being sensible, it depends on a psychiatric assessment which is very difficult to make.
Should we risk nuclear war? I don't think Putin is quite mad enough, and I don't think if he gave the order it would be obeyed. But I think the stakes are too high to take the chance.
For all that this outpouring of humanity has been heartening to see, the contrast with what happened to Syrian refugees in exactly the same countries is hard to ignore and rather tragic.
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
David Cameron's advisors could not contain their fury at Labour's decision not to back military action in Syria until after the conclusion of a UN inspection and report.
“No 10 and the Foreign Office think Ed Miliband is a f***ing c**t and a copper-bottomed shit. The French hate him now and he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party,” one Government source told The Times.
There is a good case to be made that Ed Miliband has (inadvertently) had the worst impact of any Brit in recent history. Brexit, Corbyn and Syria decision. Not to mention the ******* Climate Change Act.
Worse than that. I now think twice about eating bacon sarnies in public.
Despite the heroic Ukraine defence NATO Secretary, Jens Stoltenberg, has just condemned Ukraine to a slow death and eventual Putin puppet state status - No NATO no fly zone or troops on the ground. The cheers you hear come from the Kremlin.
Sudetenland and Czechoslavakia 1938 rinse and repeat.
And the cheers you don't hear are from the millions of victims of all out nuclear war who are not going to be that, because of Stoltenbergs words, and are only not cheering because they don't know that
It's like not changing the clocks in winter. If it saves 2000 lives in the evening but kills an extra 200 in the darker mornings that's a net saving, but the 200 make the news while the 2000 are unidentifiable.
Speak for yourself. You might not want them here but many in the U.K. do. Never had you down as anti-refugee Scott.
It sounds like the sort of kind and well-meaning gesture that could be counter-productive and cause massive chaos for the authorities trying to manage the situation.
Leave it to government then? Unexpected from a Tory.
Of course. If you take my advice you'll turn back right now...
Missed this on QT last night. SNP doubling down on stripping away UK's nuclear deterrence.
The guy with his head in his hands is Konstantin Kisin, a kind of Russian version of Volodymyr Zelensky, ie, comedian going into politics. Sadly, not much chance of him being elected president anytime soon.
I don't think Kisin is thinking of going anywhere near elected office. I believe he has given up being a comedian as well. His bit on Corbyn / Brexit / Russians was very funny.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military... Hope you can open this, large column of British armour heading at speed for the Estonia/Russian border, tanks etc, this is part of the 1800 UK led battle group for that state, being supported by 300 French arriving there within 24 hours. So it begins?
Your link doesn't work, and it would be weird if it did since it seems to be to something in the car features section.
It comes to something when HYUFD is speaking more sense than most people on here.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
You don't need to shoot down Russian planes in Russia. You just don't enforce the NFZ within 20 miles of the Russian border.
The long range Russian SAM systems can reach out far more than 20 miles.
For all that this outpouring of humanity has been heartening to see, the contrast with what happened to Syrian refugees in exactly the same countries is hard to ignore and rather tragic.
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
David Cameron's advisors could not contain their fury at Labour's decision not to back military action in Syria until after the conclusion of a UN inspection and report.
“No 10 and the Foreign Office think Ed Miliband is a f***ing c**t and a copper-bottomed shit. The French hate him now and he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party,” one Government source told The Times.
There is a good case to be made that Ed Miliband has (inadvertently) had the worst impact of any Brit in recent history. Brexit, Corbyn and Syria decision. Not to mention the ******* Climate Change Act.
It's a case that's made on here at least weekly so I think everyone's familiar with it, second only to it's all Merkel's fault.
For all that this outpouring of humanity has been heartening to see, the contrast with what happened to Syrian refugees in exactly the same countries is hard to ignore and rather tragic.
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
David Cameron's advisors could not contain their fury at Labour's decision not to back military action in Syria until after the conclusion of a UN inspection and report.
“No 10 and the Foreign Office think Ed Miliband is a f***ing c**t and a copper-bottomed shit. The French hate him now and he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party,” one Government source told The Times.
There is a good case to be made that Ed Miliband has (inadvertently) had the worst impact of any Brit in recent history. Brexit, Corbyn and Syria decision. Not to mention the ******* Climate Change Act.
The Syria decision was actually the right one. However bad Assad is, ISIS taking over in Syria would have been worse
I realise that many of you get your news and analysis from sites like Triggernometry, Unherd, Quillete et al, but may I politely suggest that in a military conflict such sources may prove wildly inadequate? Instead may I recommend the Task and Purpose YouTubers, who have started an irregular series on the Ukraine conflict [TL:DR: despite unexpectedly strong resistance the Russians are on schedule]. The links are below. The vlog tone is lighthearted, which they are finding increasingly difficult to maintain as the war progresses and they are quietly going apeshit about it.
Despite the heroic Ukraine defence NATO Secretary, Jens Stoltenberg, has just condemned Ukraine to a slow death and eventual Putin puppet state status - No NATO no fly zone or troops on the ground. The cheers you hear come from the Kremlin.
Sudetenland and Czechoslavakia 1938 rinse and repeat.
If Hitler had had nuclear weapons in 1939 like Putin does now we may not even have gone to war with the Nazis after they invaded Poland.
Thankfully the US got the atom bomb before the Nazis did
Speak for yourself. You might not want them here but many in the U.K. do. Never had you down as anti-refugee Scott.
It sounds like the sort of kind and well-meaning gesture that could be counter-productive and cause massive chaos for the authorities trying to manage the situation.
Quite so. Exactly the sort of thoughtless interference condemned in the parable of the good samaritan
You'll be fine, they're unlikely to cross the pyrenees
The Russians are claiming that Zelensky is now in Poland.
Pre the age of the internet and much better communications this constant lying might have had an impact but Russia seem to be living in the past if they think it will wash in the west .
Despite the heroic Ukraine defence NATO Secretary, Jens Stoltenberg, has just condemned Ukraine to a slow death and eventual Putin puppet state status - No NATO no fly zone or troops on the ground. The cheers you hear come from the Kremlin.
Sudetenland and Czechoslavakia 1938 rinse and repeat.
Sadly we don't have any other option.
Attack Russia and parts of Western Europe will consist of molten glass..
Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize. "We see no need to exacerbate the situation or worsen our relations," Putin said. "I think everyone should think about normalising relations and cooperating normally.""
Starting to realise that they've screwed up? Massive disconnect from the Macron call, so maybe this is for domestic consumption to claim that the West is persecuting him?
If firing thermobaric weapons at your neighbours doesn't constitute ill intentions, we wouldn't want to see what happens if you really fall out.
Despite the heroic Ukraine defence NATO Secretary, Jens Stoltenberg, has just condemned Ukraine to a slow death and eventual Putin puppet state status - No NATO no fly zone or troops on the ground. The cheers you hear come from the Kremlin.
Sudetenland and Czechoslavakia 1938 rinse and repeat.
Being sensible, it depends on a psychiatric assessment which is very difficult to make.
Should we risk nuclear war? I don't think Putin is quite mad enough, and I don't think if he gave the order it would be obeyed. But I think the stakes are too high to take the chance.
Putin is relying on this weakness. We tackle Putin or he takes confidence from his eventual victory and will roll up other states with impunity. Democracy comes at a cost and if we do not defend it then we are lost
Comments
And, more generally, Johnson has done more to devalue the honours system than anyone, including Harold Wilson and Lloyd George.
At least Charles II's mistresses had to perform useful services for him before being ennobled.
https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events/news/2022/02/exercise-iron-surge-bolsters-nato/
I can't find an original press release on Morgan website.
Johnson's domestic agenda is done. Toast. Caput. We are at war in all but name.
We need to pivot massively. And I mean massively.
Not sure Johnson is up to it to be honest, but we are stuck with him now. No way MPs will move against him in the current crisis.
all over Europe.
Not the UK
https://twitter.com/polinaivanovva/status/1499716111188860928
Extraordinary comments from Putin just now.
Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize
The one climatological actor in this war is temperature. The mild winter and early spring in Ukraine has meant the mud season starting early and kept Russian armoured vehicles to roads, where (in the North) they've been getting stuck. In the drier South that seems to be less of a problem.
It's turning cold (sub-zero) for a couple of days, before warming up again. Probably not cold enough to freeze the ground fully.
So let’s say it again. S L O W L Y
A no fly zone requires NATO to shoot down Russian planes and bomb Russian assets on the ground. Most likely including on the Russian side of the border, given they would be firing back from there. It is hot war with a nuclear power, currently run by an apparently unhinged dictator. And he doesn’t just have nukes. He has an active biochemical weapons programme, as well as the ability to weaponise space and interrupt subsea comms.
It is awful that we have to witness the destruction of Ukraine. But we made our choice a long time ago, when we flirted with but never admitted Ukraine to NATO. The only way to stop the kind of flagrant abuses Russia is inflicting on Ukraine, is to make sure the conventional deterrent to invasion is so great that he never tries in the first place. That horse has bolted in their case and our options are sadly far weaker than we would like.
And that I’m afraid is the lesson we must draw. No more “well a minor incursion isn’t an invasion”. Instead it’s unambiguous intent to defend with overwhelming conventional power, such that not a single tank, infantry brigade or aircraft can cross the border into a NATO state. Non-NATO members are no doubt learning this lesson fast.
So cheer for a no fly zone all you want if it helps get you through the day. But be under no doubt that you’re calling for a multiplication of death and suffering that could very easily lead to your own door.
And by the way, go back and look carefully at exactly what happened overnight. Did Russian troops fire recklessly on a nuclear reactor? Or did they deliberately fire on an office building in the complex knowing how this would be presented in the Western media?
It's certainly made me question why I turned a blind eye to what Russia was helping Assad to do in Syria.
🇬🇧 UK Govt will match donations, up to £20m
"Extraordinary comments from Putin just now.
Says Russia has “no ill intentions towards its neighbours” and calls for international cooperation to return, for relations to normalize. "We see no need to exacerbate the situation or worsen our relations," Putin said. "I think everyone should think about normalising relations and cooperating normally.""
Starting to realise that they've screwed up? Massive disconnect from the Macron call, so maybe this is for domestic consumption to claim that the West is persecuting him?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/29/miliband-labour_n_3834361.html
David Cameron's advisors could not contain their fury at Labour's decision not to back military action in Syria until after the conclusion of a UN inspection and report.
“No 10 and the Foreign Office think Ed Miliband is a f***ing c**t and a copper-bottomed shit. The French hate him now and he’s got no chance of building an alliance with the US Democratic Party,” one Government source told The Times.
Whether they should or not is obviously a matter of opinion but that is a political decision.
Sadly, the international community have disagreed with him over this for a few decades.
For this reason, it would be good to know what he defines 'neighbours' as.
We should normalise nothing until he removes troops from Ukraine.
Money they are paying as we speak?
There's a strong argument that Merkel led Europe created this f8cking monster. Helping Ukrainians really is the very least they can do.
UCI accepts request from Ineos rider in light of Russian invasion of Ukraine
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sivakov-granted-switch-from-russian-to-french-nationality/
That would of course be consistent with much we have seen from the Russian Army and Government in recent weeks.
The form book may suggest otherwise.
However, your point stands that were petrol to go towards £2, it is possible they would be cut. However, my expectation is they would only do so as a result of market shock, and the government would only react after, so for the purpose of the header, the £2 would still be reached.
Putin is a lying tnuc. Lots of people knew it before, now the world does.
The 'something must be done now brigade' need to sit down and calmly think what that means for them and their families and their country.
I remain confident that Biden will veto any such plan at this stage.
1) Disasters Emergency Committee
- Web: https://www.dec.org.uk/how-you-can-help
- By phone: call 0370 60 60 900.
- By post: make your donation payable to the DEC Ukraine Humanitarian Appeal, PO Box 999, London EC3A 3AA. The form is here: https://www.dec.org.uk/sites/default/files/GetInvolved/postal_donation_form.pdf
- By paypal, card, bank transfer etc: see https://www.dec.org.uk/how-you-can-help
2) British Red CrossI sense this isn't good news
Відправлення оброблене в установі обміну країни подачі і вже перебуває у транзиті до країни призначення
The problem for them is that now everyone understands perfectly what Russia led by Putin means.
- Cuban Missile Crisis - it's clear we got very much closer to actual direct confrontation (including depth charges against a Russian sub and US planes being shot down) than we are currently
- Franco and the Spanish Civil war - the bloody annihilation strategy Franco practised against Republican cities and his Putin-like attitude to the breakaway regions are horrific, but eventually he calmed down. It's not impossible.
- Iran-Iraq war: an evil totalitarian dictator vs a fanatical theocracy, both armed with modern weapons, got bogged down and eventually petered out. Saddam then stayed quiet until Gulf War 1, and Iran has not fought a direct confrontation since, just indulged in proxy conflicts.
I think recency bias means we look at what's happening and think it's more unprecedented than it really is.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t6ex58/shalom_kyiv/
Sudetenland and Czechoslavakia 1938 rinse and repeat.
The guy with his head in his hands is Konstantin Kisin, a kind of Russian version of Volodymyr Zelensky, ie, comedian going into politics. Sadly, not much chance of him being elected president anytime soon.
https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1499531543093682180
Should we risk nuclear war? I don't think Putin is quite mad enough, and I don't think if he gave the order it would be obeyed. But I think the stakes are too high to take the chance.
It's like not changing the clocks in winter. If it saves 2000 lives in the evening but kills an extra 200 in the darker mornings that's a net saving, but the 200 make the news while the 2000 are unidentifiable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system#Statistics
- EP 0: (2022/02/15) Ukraine's "Lost Army" what happened to its 780,000 troops? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s062H1xEvuw
- EP 1: (2022/02/24) Ukraine Russia War The Average Soldier's Perspective EP: 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVE8qPX9uT4
- EP 2: (2022/02/28) Ukraine War: Russian Retreat? Unlikely. Ep 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKFSK_9e-g4
- EP 3: (2022/03/03) Russo-Ukraine War: What the West Doesn't Understand EP 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BAZ2bBUzM
(the zeroth episode is before the war started)Thankfully the US got the atom bomb before the Nazis did
You'll be fine, they're unlikely to cross the pyrenees
Attack Russia and parts of Western Europe will consist of molten glass..