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Petrol to rise to £2 a litre this year? – politicalbetting.com

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  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .

    What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .

    Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Per the government, the current breakdown is:

    Retailer: 66.40p/l
    Duty (ex VAT): 57.95 p/l
    VAT (on both): 24.87 p/l
    Total: £1.4922/l


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    We need to understand that Putin has engaged in threats that are probably sabre rattling. I think we can do a bit of sabre rattling ourselves, whether or not we would actually follow through on it.

    I would at least be inclined to tell Putin that if any of his goons cause a meltdown at a Ukrainian nuclear plant, we will equate that to a first nuclear strike against NATO. Otherwise, he has a first free shot at us without using his own nukes. (That it would trash western Russia and his allies as well shouldn't be a concern to us in terms of our response.)
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    theakes said:

    Think of all those lovely taxes going to the Treasury, would keep the Triple Lock in business!

    Are fuel taxes a percentage or a flat rate per litre?
    From memory, a £1.50 litre is 75p tax, 50p fuel and 25p VAT (inc VAT on the tax). The 75p is fixed.
    so a £2 litre would need to be 75p tax, 91.67p fuel and 33.33p VAT. So ~80% rise in fuel costs from now, assuming fuel duty stays the same.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Breaking: Spain’s foreign minister says
    @NATO will discuss possible intervention and no-fly zone in Ukraine during a Friday summit of the US-led military alliance

    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1499679745012871171

    I was wondering if the escalation of indiscriminate bombing might prompt a reconsideration of the policy.

    Is it a provocative act to intervene in mass murder ?

    Good
    Madness.

    A no-fly zone means total war with Russia. Are we really ready for what that entails? I think not.

    This isn't like a no-fly zone over northern iraq. RU have a ton of air defences and so on. We would have to take them out to control the air.

    Jesus. Time for an unplanned trip to the southern hemisphere?
    Not sure why I came back from Cape Verde a week ago
    Did you enjoy it there? Wildlife is great, some good historical sites - but a bit of an edgy undertone I thought. (That said, it included a national day when everyone was very, very pissed!)
    Very variable. Santo Antao and Sao Vicente best, for volcano hikes and Portuguese colonial vibe respectively, Santiago Boa Vista Sal pretty vile. i'd have liked to get to Fogo but wind was wrong.

    Generally, probably what Madeira was like 150 years ago.

    I was sailing, wouldn't want to do it by ferry.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    Cummings pro Putin?
    More throw ukr to the wolves to avoid nuclear war I think.
    Not sure that destroying Ukraine, to save it is the way to go.
    That kind of thinking will rule you out of ever becoming President of Russia.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Not a surprise to see a Labour hold.

    Can anyone extrapolate out to the country from this result, whether the current polling is accurate or not? Looks like a swing to Labour consistent with the polls?

    By my calcs it's a swing to Lab but of significantly less than you'd get by comparing the national polls now to the GE19 election result.

  • KGB Files
    @kgb_files
    ·
    5m
    "Denazification of Ukraine" (c) Putin

    Asher Yosef Cherkassky, Jew from Dnipro

    https://twitter.com/kgb_files/status/1499703290170331140
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243
    Sandpit said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1499696220457127939

    "Belarusian forces will not take part in Ukraine war, Lukashenko says http://reut.rs/373MOXd"

    Not going to plan.

    Yes, IMO that's a good indication that tings are not going to plan for Russia.

    We should also talk to Lukashenko (if we are not already), and try to further divide him from Russia, isolating Putin further.
    Please can he start by getting the Russian missiles out of his country, one of which re-decorated my house this morning!
    Hopefully no serious damage done?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Since we're talking about things nuclear, here's an article about natural nuclear reactors in Africa, albeit a long time ago:

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/natures-nuclear-reactors-the-2-billion-year-old-natural-fission-reactors-in-gabon-western-africa/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Cookie said:

    We have speculated about Putin's health here recently. We've also made comments about timing and readiness: we're a little puzzled that he invaded now, rather than in two months' time. Could it be that his health is even worse than we thought? That his time left can be measured in months rather than years? Is that the imperative for acting now?

    The question of why now is probably just the Olympics and not further pissing off China.
    Yes, I think so. The idea Putin is sick - other than in the head - strikes me as wishful speculation. He might be but I can't see the evidence. He looks ok to me.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Cookie said:

    We have speculated about Putin's health here recently. We've also made comments about timing and readiness: we're a little puzzled that he invaded now, rather than in two months' time. Could it be that his health is even worse than we thought? That his time left can be measured in months rather than years? Is that the imperative for acting now?

    The question of why now is probably just the Olympics and not further pissing off China.
    Well that's why now rather than two months ago. (But honestly, 'but we're hosting the winter Olympics!' is a very poor reason for not destroying the Ukraine - in my head, I can't help but say it in a Lady Bracknell voice.) But why not in two months' time, when preparation will not be so shambolic and the weather will be better? It's not as if the west was in any danger of getting its act together until Russia finally acted.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590
    Dura_Ace said:

    Applicant said:

    PB Battallion

    48 self appointed staff officers and one infantryman. (Topping).
    There's a logistical challenge distributing all the red tabs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Since we're talking about things nuclear, here's an article about natural nuclear reactors in Africa, albeit a long time ago:

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/natures-nuclear-reactors-the-2-billion-year-old-natural-fission-reactors-in-gabon-western-africa/

    Once, when I was discussing nuclear power with someone, I accidentally created an Oslo Denier.

    The person in question was hard core anti-nuclear. The revelation that a river running through the Oklo reactor(s) didn't shift the decay products that far meant that a bunch of his beliefs about nuclear waste were wrong.

    So he started claiming that it couldn't possibly have been a reactor. That there had to be another explanation.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348

    Not a surprise to see a Labour hold.

    Can anyone extrapolate out to the country from this result, whether the current polling is accurate or not? Looks like a swing to Labour consistent with the polls?

    It would imply a Conservative lead of about 3% across the country, on UNS, but the Conservatives are likely overperforming the national average in the West Midlands,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Interesting article on how it was unofficial combat experience that opened up official combat roles to women in the Ukraine military.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/03/ukraine-women-russia-putin-military.html
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    It is truly terrifying and sobering thought that generations X, millennial and older Z of UK citizens may well have to go and fight in europe in coming months/years to defeat fascism.

    This is what our (great) grandfathers did.

    It is almost impossible to take in that we will have to do it all again.

    Obviously I support the idea in theory, and would ideally be fist to sign up, but I’ve got a bad leg you see? And these feet? Flat as a pancake. Not to mention my hayfever.
    I'd go but I'm volunteering to look after biggles.
    Not all heroes wear capes.
    Though coincidentally kle4 does like an Inverness I believe.

    https://www.kinlochanderson.com/inverness-cape-in-all-other-tweeds?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI792K56us9gIVh-_tCh0Wjg6wEAQYASABEgI1LfD_BwE
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    As has been pointed out, an interruption to electrical supply to the cooling for the nuclear waste ponds could be pretty dangerous, too. 'They didn't actually hit the reactor' is not particularly reassuring.
    I'll take all those old fuel rods off their hands, no problem. I can recycle them...
    Your shed sounds even more interesting than that of @Dura_Ace ...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Dura_Ace said:

    Applicant said:

    PB Battallion

    48 self appointed staff officers and one infantryman. (Topping).
    Probably insubordinate.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting article on how it was unofficial combat experience that opened up official combat roles to women in the Ukraine military.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/03/ukraine-women-russia-putin-military.html

    There are quite a lot of women soldiers in the Kurdish militia, too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    Cummings pro Putin?
    More throw ukr to the wolves to avoid nuclear war I think.
    Not sure that destroying Ukraine, to save it is the way to go.
    That kind of thinking will rule you out of ever becoming President of Russia.
    I try and keep my thinking simple. Set some basic boundaries.

    For example, on nuclear war, I try and think of "Is this the bit where Curtis Le May would say you are being more of a fruit cake than General Power?"

    I always liked -

    Gen Thomas Power - "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!"

    Professor William Kaufmann from the RAND Corporation - "Well, you'd better make sure that they're a man and a woman."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    "Our three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Putin...."

    Not much by way of surprise in THAT convoy, now modelled in 3D - posted at 10.49 on the BBC Ukraine thread.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60532634#lx-commentary-top
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    Cummings pro Putin?
    More throw ukr to the wolves to avoid nuclear war I think.
    Not sure that destroying Ukraine, to save it is the way to go.
    That kind of thinking will rule you out of ever becoming President of Russia.
    I try and keep my thinking simple. Set some basic boundaries.

    For example, on nuclear war, I try and think of "Is this the bit where Curtis Le May would say you are being more of a fruit cake than General Power?"

    I always liked -

    Gen Thomas Power - "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!"

    Professor William Kaufmann from the RAND Corporation - "Well, you'd better make sure that they're a man and a woman."
    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Cummings was pro-Putin.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    As has been pointed out, an interruption to electrical supply to the cooling for the nuclear waste ponds could be pretty dangerous, too. 'They didn't actually hit the reactor' is not particularly reassuring.
    I'll take all those old fuel rods off their hands, no problem. I can recycle them...
    Your shed sounds even more interesting than that of @Dura_Ace ...
    Sadly, haven't got one at the moment - using various facilities, until we get the new house sorted.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Per the government, the current breakdown is:

    Retailer: 66.40p/l
    Duty (ex VAT): 57.95 p/l
    VAT (on both): 24.87 p/l
    Total: £1.4922/l


    ok, so to get 33.33p VAT, £1.6667 ex VAT, if duty stays at 57.95p the retailer share would have to be £1.0872, which is "only" a 64% rise from now. Though this will include the retailer's fixed costs and profit margin so the oil price would need to go up by more than that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    As has been pointed out, an interruption to electrical supply to the cooling for the nuclear waste ponds could be pretty dangerous, too. 'They didn't actually hit the reactor' is not particularly reassuring.
    I'll take all those old fuel rods off their hands, no problem. I can recycle them...
    Your shed sounds even more interesting than that of @Dura_Ace ...
    If Malmesbury weren't so obviously alive and in the UK I'd be wondering if he was this chap who did *things* in his mum's garden shed:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Breaking: Spain’s foreign minister says
    @NATO will discuss possible intervention and no-fly zone in Ukraine during a Friday summit of the US-led military alliance

    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1499679745012871171

    I was wondering if the escalation of indiscriminate bombing might prompt a reconsideration of the policy.

    Is it a provocative act to intervene in mass murder ?

    Good
    Madness.

    A no-fly zone means total war with Russia. Are we really ready for what that entails? I think not.

    This isn't like a no-fly zone over northern iraq. RU have a ton of air defences and so on. We would have to take them out to control the air.

    Jesus. Time for an unplanned trip to the southern hemisphere?
    Not sure why I came back from Cape Verde a week ago
    Tsunami risk during a nuclear holocaust
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited March 2022

    Sandpit said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1499696220457127939

    "Belarusian forces will not take part in Ukraine war, Lukashenko says http://reut.rs/373MOXd"

    Not going to plan.

    Yes, IMO that's a good indication that tings are not going to plan for Russia.

    We should also talk to Lukashenko (if we are not already), and try to further divide him from Russia, isolating Putin further.
    Please can he start by getting the Russian missiles out of his country, one of which re-decorated my house this morning!
    Hopefully no serious damage done?
    Should be just a couple of windows and the building facade. A grand or two to fix it.

    I’ll send the bill to the Kremlin. ;)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited March 2022

    Nigelb said:

    Breaking: Spain’s foreign minister says
    @NATO will discuss possible intervention and no-fly zone in Ukraine during a Friday summit of the US-led military alliance

    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1499679745012871171

    I was wondering if the escalation of indiscriminate bombing might prompt a reconsideration of the policy.

    Is it a provocative act to intervene in mass murder ?

    Good
    Madness.

    A no-fly zone means total war with Russia. Are we really ready for what that entails? I think not.

    This isn't like a no-fly zone over northern iraq. RU have a ton of air defences and so on. We would have to take them out to control the air.

    As DA has pointed out ad nauseam (the thought certainly makes me feel sick), a NFZ means taking out AA sites in 100% bona fide, legitimately Russian territory.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Dura_Ace said:

    Applicant said:

    PB Battallion

    48 self appointed staff officers and one infantryman. (Topping).
    Similar to current senior officers/sailors in the Navy isn’t it?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243
    Cookie said:

    theakes said:

    Think of all those lovely taxes going to the Treasury, would keep the Triple Lock in business!

    Are fuel taxes a percentage or a flat rate per litre?
    Excise duty flat rate
    VAT percentage based

    It’s the VAT on the excise duty that sticks in my throat
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    Cummings pro Putin?
    More throw ukr to the wolves to avoid nuclear war I think.
    Not sure that destroying Ukraine, to save it is the way to go.
    That kind of thinking will rule you out of ever becoming President of Russia.
    I try and keep my thinking simple. Set some basic boundaries.

    For example, on nuclear war, I try and think of "Is this the bit where Curtis Le May would say you are being more of a fruit cake than General Power?"

    I always liked -

    Gen Thomas Power - "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!"

    Professor William Kaufmann from the RAND Corporation - "Well, you'd better make sure that they're a man and a woman."
    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Cummings was pro-Putin.
    His great hero is Bismarck but surely Cummings is smart enough to realise that Putin is no Bismarck?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    As has been pointed out, an interruption to electrical supply to the cooling for the nuclear waste ponds could be pretty dangerous, too. 'They didn't actually hit the reactor' is not particularly reassuring.
    I'll take all those old fuel rods off their hands, no problem. I can recycle them...
    Your shed sounds even more interesting than that of @Dura_Ace ...
    If Malmesbury weren't so obviously alive and in the UK I'd be wondering if he was this chap who did *things* in his mum's garden shed:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn
    He was a loon, and a moderately dangerous one. He was randomly collecting radioactive material, not building any kind of reactor.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited March 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    It is truly terrifying and sobering thought that generations X, millennial and older Z of UK citizens may well have to go and fight in europe in coming months/years to defeat fascism.

    This is what our (great) grandfathers did.

    It is almost impossible to take in that we will have to do it all again.

    Especially since in 1986 Gorbachev came up with a plan to get rid of nuclear weapons altogether by the year 2000.
    An impossible dream that needs to be more than dreamt. Nuclear WMDs are only of use if you're prepared to use them and you have to be both bad and mad to do that. Their value is therefore skewed heavily to the ranks of the bad and mad. As long as Nuclear WMDs exist the very people who should most not have them will want them the most. And in their hands it's not so much Nuclear Deterrent it's a Nuclear Umbrella under which they can carry out atrocities. We're seeing this here.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Nigelb said:

    Breaking: Spain’s foreign minister says
    @NATO will discuss possible intervention and no-fly zone in Ukraine during a Friday summit of the US-led military alliance

    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1499679745012871171

    I was wondering if the escalation of indiscriminate bombing might prompt a reconsideration of the policy.

    Is it a provocative act to intervene in mass murder ?

    Good
    Madness.

    A no-fly zone means total war with Russia. Are we really ready for what that entails? I think not.

    This isn't like a no-fly zone over northern iraq. RU have a ton of air defences and so on. We would have to take them out to control the air.

    As DA has pointed out ad nauseam (the thought certainly makes me feel sick), a NFZ means taking out AA sites in 100% bona fide, legitimately Russian territory.
    Which is a problem that didn't exist in Libya, Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. So while it looks really easy the conditions make it impossible.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Breaking: Spain’s foreign minister says
    @NATO will discuss possible intervention and no-fly zone in Ukraine during a Friday summit of the US-led military alliance

    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1499679745012871171

    I was wondering if the escalation of indiscriminate bombing might prompt a reconsideration of the policy.

    Is it a provocative act to intervene in mass murder ?

    Good
    Madness.

    A no-fly zone means total war with Russia. Are we really ready for what that entails? I think not.

    This isn't like a no-fly zone over northern iraq. RU have a ton of air defences and so on. We would have to take them out to control the air.

    Jesus. Time for an unplanned trip to the southern hemisphere?
    Not sure why I came back from Cape Verde a week ago
    Tsunami risk during a nuclear holocaust
    Highest point 2,800 metres

    That's an active volcano, mind...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    We have speculated about Putin's health here recently. We've also made comments about timing and readiness: we're a little puzzled that he invaded now, rather than in two months' time. Could it be that his health is even worse than we thought? That his time left can be measured in months rather than years? Is that the imperative for acting now?

    The question of why now is probably just the Olympics and not further pissing off China.
    Well that's why now rather than two months ago. (But honestly, 'but we're hosting the winter Olympics!' is a very poor reason for not destroying the Ukraine - in my head, I can't help but say it in a Lady Bracknell voice.) But why not in two months' time, when preparation will not be so shambolic and the weather will be better? It's not as if the west was in any danger of getting its act together until Russia finally acted.
    The irony is that Russia holding off invading the Ukraine so that they wouldn't spoil China's Olympics didn't really work out.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Would we risk sending in our jets without taking out the Russian air defences?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    Breaking: Spain’s foreign minister says
    @NATO will discuss possible intervention and no-fly zone in Ukraine during a Friday summit of the US-led military alliance

    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1499679745012871171

    I was wondering if the escalation of indiscriminate bombing might prompt a reconsideration of the policy.

    Is it a provocative act to intervene in mass murder ?

    Good
    Madness.

    A no-fly zone means total war with Russia. Are we really ready for what that entails? I think not.

    This isn't like a no-fly zone over northern iraq. RU have a ton of air defences and so on. We would have to take them out to control the air.

    As DA has pointed out ad nauseam (the thought certainly makes me feel sick), a NFZ means taking out AA sites in 100% bona fide, legitimately Russian territory.
    Which is a problem that didn't exist in Libya, Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. So while it looks really easy the conditions make it impossible.
    I believe that was an issue in Syria - at one point Clinton was suggesting a NFZ. Even though, as was pointed out by a number of people, that meant trying to stop Russian planes flying.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We have speculated about Putin's health here recently. We've also made comments about timing and readiness: we're a little puzzled that he invaded now, rather than in two months' time. Could it be that his health is even worse than we thought? That his time left can be measured in months rather than years? Is that the imperative for acting now?

    The question of why now is probably just the Olympics and not further pissing off China.
    Yes, I think so. The idea Putin is sick - other than in the head - strikes me as wishful speculation. He might be but I can't see the evidence. He looks ok to me.
    That moon face is either botched surgery or corticosteroids, and I don't think he's a facial procedure kinda guy. That plus the insane distancing stuff: Trump has a germ phobia but that has always been known. It is more likely that it is rational because he is immunocompromised than that it's a phobia which has come from nowhere. I think he has got cancer.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    edited March 2022
    blockquote class="Quote" rel="Big_G_NorthWales">300% council tax rise from April 23 for holiday home owners in Wales

    Actually quite popular

    Does that include static caravans and similar? Bro-in-law has what his wife calls a 'lodge".
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited March 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    We have speculated about Putin's health here recently. We've also made comments about timing and readiness: we're a little puzzled that he invaded now, rather than in two months' time. Could it be that his health is even worse than we thought? That his time left can be measured in months rather than years? Is that the imperative for acting now?

    The question of why now is probably just the Olympics and not further pissing off China.
    Yes, I think so. The idea Putin is sick - other than in the head - strikes me as wishful speculation. He might be but I can't see the evidence. He looks ok to me.
    That moon face is either botched surgery or corticosteroids, and I don't think he's a facial procedure kinda guy. That plus the insane distancing stuff: Trump has a germ phobia but that has always been known. It is more likely that it is rational because he is immunocompromised than that it's a phobia which has come from nowhere. I think he has got cancer.
    Putin distancing himself from others is not absolute. Did you see him meeting Lukashenko?

    Edit: a link
    https://youtu.be/kW9jhRYkL5Y
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Would we risk sending in our jets without taking out the Russian air defences?

    Why not just shoot the crew in the back of the head before they launch and save the fuel?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590
    And what difference does it make to the artillery fire?
  • Oleksiy Sorokin
    @mrsorokaa

    ⚡️Occupied regional capital Kherson is going full Orwell today.

    Russians seized the local TV tower & began airing Russian propaganda networks. Now, SBU says they are moving in people from Crimea to stage a scene where Russian troops are greeted as “liberators.”

    “War is Peace.”

    10:01 AM · Mar 4, 2022 from Ukraine·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/mrsorokaa/status/1499686567669125127
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955

    Would we risk sending in our jets without taking out the Russian air defences?

    Might be verging on the Quixotic.

    Get up in a crate Perkins, pop over to Dnipro, take a shufti, don’t come back.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    IshmaelZ said:

    I wonder if last night's attack on the nuclear power station is the moment that changed this war, with NATO knowing that being bystanders while nuclear power stations are targets for Putin is not acceptable and calls his bluff

    The bluff would be that he hasn't got nukes [he has] or that he has no intention of using them [you want to bet on that]?

    Some VERY iffy tweets from cummings this morning, the missiles only hit a shed not the actual power plant therefore this is all hysterical propaganda by Ukraine. I think most people think missiles hitting sheds near power plants is a good 90% as concerning as hitting the actual plant.
    The problem with nuclear power plants is that even if the reactor hall is safe, you do still need control systems, and cooling systems, and staff, and emergency equipment. There isn't a lot of unecessary equipment at a nuclear power plant. The idea that some bits are expendable is stupid.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Suspect a period of stagflation fuelled by a faraway foreign conflict of which the electorate grows tired, may be the Achilles heel of this government.
    That and an egregious cock-up being never far away.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    I'm not about to do a multivariate regression, but in 2021 for every $1 Brent Crude rose, pump prices rose 1.42p/l. Brent Crude would therefore need to rise a further 33% or so for pump prices to hit £2 a litre. Not quite as reassuring as other methods of calculation.

    My analysis did seem to suggest that in part, retailers actually soak their fixed costs and don't pass them on at the pump in the way you would expect. Perhaps this is driven by other sales at petrol stations or tie-ins to supermarkets.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Dura_Ace said:

    Would we risk sending in our jets without taking out the Russian air defences?

    Why not just shoot the crew in the back of the head before they launch and save the fuel?
    Look I am not an expert. That is why I was asking the question. If you're in a crisis it is worth thinking about as many options as possible. Even if Nato planes is implausible I don't think we should be telling the Russians that.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.

    NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.

    Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?

    He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.

    Is this relevant?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1499482812889681921
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    First!

    I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.

    A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
    they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
    Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Dura_Ace said:

    Would we risk sending in our jets without taking out the Russian air defences?

    Why not just shoot the crew in the back of the head before they launch and save the fuel?
    Look I am not an expert. That is why I was asking the question. If you're in a crisis it is worth thinking about as many options as possible. Even if Nato planes is implausible I don't think we should be telling the Russians that.
    I suspect we don't have to tell the Russians much about our forces.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It is truly terrifying and sobering thought that generations X, millennial and older Z of UK citizens may well have to go and fight in europe in coming months/years to defeat fascism.

    This is what our (great) grandfathers did.

    It is almost impossible to take in that we will have to do it all again.

    Especially since in 1986 Gorbachev came up with a plan to get rid of nuclear weapons altogether by the year 2000.
    An impossible dream that needs to be more than dreamt. Nuclear WMDs are only of use if you're prepared to use them and you have to be both bad and mad to do that. Their value is therefore skewed heavily to the ranks of the bad and mad. As long as Nuclear WMDs exist the very people who should most not have them will want them the most. And in their hands it's not so much Nuclear Deterrent it's a Nuclear Umbrella under which they can carry out atrocities. We're seeing this here.
    As against that, wars would become more common between big powers, if nuclear weapons did not exist.

    That might be a price worth paying, but it needs to be taken into account.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    nico679 said:

    The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .

    What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .

    Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .

    The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890

    Excellent balanced thread from David Herdson (of this parish) on the Erdington by-election.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1499686747197874178

    "Indeed, looking forward to May, unless Labour can start enthusing people in their own message and vision (if indeed they can find one), or unless they can generate real anger against the Tories, those polls will also prove to be a damp squib for Starmer."

    And as predicted:-

    4/n There were also some anecdotal reports that the Starmer-Savile allegations had some cut-through with voters - which if so, almost certainly means that they'll be repeated by Johnson and the Tories in general. This is not a good thing.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293
    Erdington - I think people need to bear in mind that polling seems to suggest Labour are underperforming in the Midlands compared to the rest of England. Then there's also the fact Andy Street is a popular mayor and Labour's choice of candidate was 'controversial' to say the least. A 4.5% swing to Labour in Erdington probably suggests a bigger swing to Labour in seats in the North and South of England.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    malcolmg said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    First!

    I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.

    A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
    they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
    Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
    Like old man Steptoe
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Erdington - I think people need to bear in mind that polling seems to suggest Labour are underperforming in the Midlands compared to the rest of England. Then there's also the fact Andy Street is a popular mayor and Labour's choice of candidate was 'controversial' to say the least. A 4.5% swing to Labour in Erdington probably suggests a bigger swing to Labour in seats in the North and South of England.

    Poor candidate too. The islamophobia would have been a problem, though tbf it does make a change from anti-semitism - and will probably help if at some point she decides to cross the floor.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .

    What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .

    Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .

    The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
    People were chundering on about the risks after Georgia. After Crimea. After Donbass. After Salisbury. And each time, Putin continued onwards towards his twisted goals, and the situation became increasingly dire for the world.

    It's fair enough to think that's the correct position to take atm. But you need to ask where you personally draw the line. Because Putin has proved he could do *anything*; and it might not be stuff we expect. Salisbury and Litvinenko shows that.

    The situation with the power station is serious, and could have a serious effect on all of Europe. Who Putin now sees as either subservient or the enemy. Or both.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.

    NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.

    Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?

    He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.

    Is this relevant?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1499482812889681921

    She may have got the idea off me, on here, yesterday. Much the likeliest explanation for the insane timing of this announcement is

    Boris has had seriously dodgy dealings with oligarchs

    GW knows this

    GW wants a k for his silence

    GW does not trust Boris to make good on a promise to see him right in the next honours list in June or is not confident he will still be PM by then

    Got a better idea? Care to point to a precedent for an award of this kind being made as a one off between honours lists for no obvious reason?

    Bear in mind that what GW is most famous for is his infantile "Russia should go away and shut up" remark. Not something you want to be reminding people of just at the moment, surely?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .

    What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .

    Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .

    The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
    We need to distinguish between what we would ideally like to happen and what actually is now possible.

    From here, if Zelensky saves 80 per cent of the Ukraine from becoming a smoking & desolate ruin, that is an excellent result.

    Putin will die or be killed sooner or later, and a saner Russian leader will emerge.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .

    What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .

    Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .

    The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
    Completely agree. However, what these sorts of things should start to change are the chances of us taking our foots off the Russian economic throat any time soon.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited March 2022
    FTSE 100
    6997.5
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    JP Morgan reckon RU will lose 11% drop in GDP in this crisis.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .

    What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .

    Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .

    The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
    People were chundering on about the risks after Georgia. After Crimea. After Donbass. After Salisbury. And each time, Putin continued onwards towards his twisted goals, and the situation became increasingly dire for the world.

    It's fair enough to think that's the correct position to take atm. But you need to ask where you personally draw the line. Because Putin has proved he could do *anything*; and it might not be stuff we expect. Salisbury and Litvinenko shows that.

    The situation with the power station is serious, and could have a serious effect on all of Europe. Who Putin now sees as either subservient or the enemy. Or both.
    chuntering, chundering means something different

    Like almost all rhetorical Where do you draw the line questions, that is very easy to answer. Along the borders of the NATO member states.

    Next?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    First!

    I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.

    A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
    they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
    Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
    Like old man Steptoe
    That was a horrific sight indeed.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .

    What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .

    Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .

    The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
    We need to distinguish between what we would ideally like to happen and what actually is now possible.

    From here, if Zelensky saves 80 per cent of the Ukraine from becoming a smoking & desolate ruin, that is an excellent result.

    Putin will die or be killed sooner or later, and a saner Russian leader will emerge.
    There is certainly an argument for Ukraine accepting a ceasefire now and then waiting for the russian economy to collapse before getting the sorts of security guarantees that it needs.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Excellent balanced thread from David Herdson (of this parish) on the Erdington by-election.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1499686747197874178

    "Indeed, looking forward to May, unless Labour can start enthusing people in their own message and vision (if indeed they can find one), or unless they can generate real anger against the Tories, those polls will also prove to be a damp squib for Starmer."

    And as predicted:-

    4/n There were also some anecdotal reports that the Starmer-Savile allegations had some cut-through with voters - which if so, almost certainly means that they'll be repeated by Johnson and the Tories in general. This is not a good thing.
    Looking at the 2018 results it’s quite a high Labour baseline isn’t it, and a lowish Tory one? Could easily look like a non-event even if they do well.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    First!

    I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.

    A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
    they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
    Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
    Like old man Steptoe
    That was a horrific sight indeed.
    Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Another point on Erdington: Dave Nellist 360 votes, LOL!

    Prospects looking good for a Corbyn/ Momentum breakaway?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Wheat up 40% this week.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Wheat up 40% this week.

    I could do losing a couple of stone. Low carb diet it is.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Wheat up 40% this week.

    Inflation is not going away and will get very ugly later in the year.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Given the popularity he got from draconian Covid rules and instructing us all to stay at home, please nobody suggest to Boris that goes the full warily economy and tries to subsidies and ration us out of this.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737

    Erdington - I think people need to bear in mind that polling seems to suggest Labour are underperforming in the Midlands compared to the rest of England. Then there's also the fact Andy Street is a popular mayor and Labour's choice of candidate was 'controversial' to say the least. A 4.5% swing to Labour in Erdington probably suggests a bigger swing to Labour in seats in the North and South of England.

    I agree, local election results in the constituency 2018 were Lab 50.2% Con 42.9% when Labour was level pegging with the Tories so the result must also be seen in that context.

    There are reasons to be concerned about Starmer's performance and the local elections could still be a damp squib like 2018 for him but nothing too troublesome about this result.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Taz said:

    Wheat up 40% this week.

    Inflation is not going away and will get very ugly later in the year.
    Boris gets to blame Russia though. All economic disruption becomes Covid or Russia and any issue from Brexit are lost in the margins. If he can be seen to be tough on the first two, and a “strong leader” he might do ok out of this politically.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    First!

    I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.

    A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
    they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
    Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
    Like old man Steptoe
    That was a horrific sight indeed.
    Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
    Great programme in its day mind you , both of them played their parts brilliantly.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    MrEd said:

    tlg86 said:

    First!

    I am not an economist, but surely there comes a point where price rises might slow or even reverse. If things get really bad, the economy could properly tank.

    A bit of a stupid comment I know but couldn't one response be to mandate people to work from home as with the Covid crisis? Obviously not all can but it would presumably reduce fuel usage / traffic
    they'll be asking folk to share baths next (only older PB'ers will know what I mean)
    Did it ever stop I did not know that. We will be back to using the kitchen sink next.
    Like old man Steptoe
    That was a horrific sight indeed.
    Grotesque, yet in real life he was really dapper. Dressed extremely well.
    Great programme in its day mind you , both of them played their parts brilliantly.
    Great comedy, but also better drama than most.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military...
    Hope you can open this, large column of British armour heading at speed for the Estonia/Russian border, tanks etc, this is part of the 1800 UK led battle group for that state, being supported by 300 French arriving there within 24 hours.
    So it begins?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    biggles said:

    Taz said:

    Wheat up 40% this week.

    Inflation is not going away and will get very ugly later in the year.
    Boris gets to blame Russia though. All economic disruption becomes Covid or Russia and any issue from Brexit are lost in the margins. If he can be seen to be tough on the first two, and a “strong leader” he might do ok out of this politically.
    Who the feck cares about Brexit anymore? Might as well have been an event in the last century now.

    We are quite possibly only days away from a war across europe.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    biggles said:

    Taz said:

    Wheat up 40% this week.

    Inflation is not going away and will get very ugly later in the year.
    Boris gets to blame Russia though. All economic disruption becomes Covid or Russia and any issue from Brexit are lost in the margins. If he can be seen to be tough on the first two, and a “strong leader” he might do ok out of this politically.
    Bozo is a f***ing lucky general.

    Brexit is mixed in with Covid.

    The inflation that come from the monetary inflation Covid created is blamed on the Ukrainian war.

    It still won't 100% help Bozo at the next election but it means the seat losses will probably be manageable rather than 1997 levels.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Phil said:

    Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.

    NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.

    Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?

    He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.

    Is this relevant?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1499482812889681921

    Carole can be a tad one note, but honestly: can you come up with /any/ sensible reason for Gavin Williamson to be knighted at this specific point in time? (Lets put aside the absurdity of knighting Gavin Williamson at all for the moment...)

    It’s not even gong-passing out season, so this is clearly something that Gavin has been able to insist happens right now & not at some later time.
    I can. Are any of his cockups (hard to narrow it down) subject to a select committee, NAO, or PAC committee due to report?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    JP Morgan reckon RU will lose 11% drop in GDP in this crisis.

    Surely, that number depends on hydrocarbons exports continuing at current levels.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It is truly terrifying and sobering thought that generations X, millennial and older Z of UK citizens may well have to go and fight in europe in coming months/years to defeat fascism.

    This is what our (great) grandfathers did.

    It is almost impossible to take in that we will have to do it all again.

    Especially since in 1986 Gorbachev came up with a plan to get rid of nuclear weapons altogether by the year 2000.
    An impossible dream that needs to be more than dreamt. Nuclear WMDs are only of use if you're prepared to use them and you have to be both bad and mad to do that. Their value is therefore skewed heavily to the ranks of the bad and mad. As long as Nuclear WMDs exist the very people who should most not have them will want them the most. And in their hands it's not so much Nuclear Deterrent it's a Nuclear Umbrella under which they can carry out atrocities. We're seeing this here.
    As against that, wars would become more common between big powers, if nuclear weapons did not exist.

    That might be a price worth paying, but it needs to be taken into account.
    I'm not so sure about that. War is expensive and harrowing and creates far more losers than winners. It make no sense as an activity and I'd be hopeful in the long run it becomes less prevalent.

    But to have that 'long run' - to give it a chance of happening - we need to escape from what we've boxed ourselves into with nuclear WMDs. Ok, they haven't been used post WW2 but that's not long. It's less than a single lifetime.

    Look at the sort of leaders around now. Putin, Kim, Trump, Xi, Modi, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, all of these tawdry 'strongman' nationalist types. What chance we get through another couple of lifetimes without a nuclear holocaust unless we start to be serious and creative about disarmament?

    People are rushing to say the response to this crisis should be massive increases in military spending. I couldn't disagree more. I think the lesson is the opposite and so should be the direction of travel.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Taz said:

    Wheat up 40% this week.

    Inflation is not going away and will get very ugly later in the year.
    Boris gets to blame Russia though. All economic disruption becomes Covid or Russia and any issue from Brexit are lost in the margins. If he can be seen to be tough on the first two, and a “strong leader” he might do ok out of this politically.
    Bozo is a f***ing lucky general.

    Brexit is mixed in with Covid.

    The inflation that come from the monetary inflation Covid created is blamed on the Ukrainian war.

    It still won't 100% help Bozo at the next election but it means the seat losses will probably be manageable rather than 1997 levels.
    Yup. He’s lucky. I mean, the world isn’t, but he is.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Phil said:

    Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.

    NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.

    Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?

    He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.

    Is this relevant?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1499482812889681921

    Carole can be a tad one note, but honestly: can you come up with /any/ sensible reason for Gavin Williamson to be knighted at this specific point in time? (Lets put aside the absurdity of knighting Gavin Williamson at all for the moment...)

    It’s not even gong-passing out season, so this is clearly something that Gavin has been able to insist happens right now & not at some later time.
    Suspect this was part of the deal for him to leave quietly. We won’t be able to give it you now, but let’s b/f it a few months - say early March next year?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    edited March 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    The fact that Russia even thought it was a good idea to attack anything near a nuclear reactor is a game changer .

    What if the attack had actually hit the reactor itself .

    Any further attacks of that manner should be deemed an attack on fellow NATO countries who could see a catastrophe unfold if the next time a reactor is hit .

    The risks are so high that I think any blurred messaging should be avoided. (By Western leaders, I mean, not so much on here!). The line needs to be kept simple and binary. NATO will not defend Ukraine. NATO *will* engage if a member state is attacked. This is the right stance at this point imo. The incident with the power station doesn't change that.
    People were chundering on about the risks after Georgia. After Crimea. After Donbass. After Salisbury. And each time, Putin continued onwards towards his twisted goals, and the situation became increasingly dire for the world.

    It's fair enough to think that's the correct position to take atm. But you need to ask where you personally draw the line. Because Putin has proved he could do *anything*; and it might not be stuff we expect. Salisbury and Litvinenko shows that.

    The situation with the power station is serious, and could have a serious effect on all of Europe. Who Putin now sees as either subservient or the enemy. Or both.
    chuntering, chundering means something different

    Like almost all rhetorical Where do you draw the line questions, that is very easy to answer. Along the borders of the NATO member states.

    Next?
    I chose 'chundering' with care.

    Saying 'NATO' is fine. Until his attack is rather asyemtrical and unconventional, and not against troops. And deniable. Poisoning of a water supply. A few massive container ships sunk at sea.

    Events have shown he's capable of doing those, and many more things.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    biggles said:

    Taz said:

    Wheat up 40% this week.

    Inflation is not going away and will get very ugly later in the year.
    Boris gets to blame Russia though. All economic disruption becomes Covid or Russia and any issue from Brexit are lost in the margins. If he can be seen to be tough on the first two, and a “strong leader” he might do ok out of this politically.
    Who the feck cares about Brexit anymore? Might as well have been an event in the last century now.

    We are quite possibly only days away from a war across europe.
    Oh I agree. Just taking a break from worrying about Armageddon for a minute it is striking that if you’d asked me in Jan 2020 what I through politics would have been about through to the next election, I’d definitely have said “bedding in Brexit”.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Phil said:

    Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.

    NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.

    Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?

    He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.

    Is this relevant?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1499482812889681921

    Carole can be a tad one note, but honestly: can you come up with /any/ sensible reason for Gavin Williamson to be knighted at this specific point in time? (Lets put aside the absurdity of knighting Gavin Williamson at all for the moment...)

    It’s not even gong-passing out season, so this is clearly something that Gavin has been able to insist happens right now & not at some later time.
    That's easy, it's a good time to bury bad news.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    theakes said:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military...
    Hope you can open this, large column of British armour heading at speed for the Estonia/Russian border, tanks etc, this is part of the 1800 UK led battle group for that state, being supported by 300 French arriving there within 24 hours.
    So it begins?

    Your link doesn't work, and it would be weird if it did since it seems to be to something in the car features section.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    It is truly terrifying and sobering thought that generations X, millennial and older Z of UK citizens may well have to go and fight in europe in coming months/years to defeat fascism.

    This is what our (great) grandfathers did.

    It is almost impossible to take in that we will have to do it all again.

    Obviously I support the idea in theory, and would ideally be fist to sign up, but I’ve got a bad leg you see? And these feet? Flat as a pancake. Not to mention my hayfever.
    I'd go but I'm volunteering to look after biggles.
    Not all heroes wear capes.
    Though coincidentally kle4 does like an Inverness I believe.

    https://www.kinlochanderson.com/inverness-cape-in-all-other-tweeds?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI792K56us9gIVh-_tCh0Wjg6wEAQYASABEgI1LfD_BwE
    I dont recall saying so but I sure do!

    I don't think i could pull it off though.
  • Phil said:

    Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.

    NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.

    Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?

    He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.

    Is this relevant?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1499482812889681921

    Carole can be a tad one note, but honestly: can you come up with /any/ sensible reason for Gavin Williamson to be knighted at this specific point in time? (Lets put aside the absurdity of knighting Gavin Williamson at all for the moment...)

    It’s not even gong-passing out season, so this is clearly something that Gavin has been able to insist happens right now & not at some later time.
    It's definitely not this, but if Gav has volunteered to don blue and yellow and head to Kyiv this weekend it would make the timing reasonable.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    theakes said:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military...
    Hope you can open this, large column of British armour heading at speed for the Estonia/Russian border, tanks etc, this is part of the 1800 UK led battle group for that state, being supported by 300 French arriving there within 24 hours.
    So it begins?

    Your link doesn't work, and it would be weird if it did since it seems to be to something in the car features section.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military-vehicles-spotted-driving-through-estonia/vi-AAUz6uc
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    biggles said:

    Taz said:

    Wheat up 40% this week.

    Inflation is not going away and will get very ugly later in the year.
    Boris gets to blame Russia though. All economic disruption becomes Covid or Russia and any issue from Brexit are lost in the margins. If he can be seen to be tough on the first two, and a “strong leader” he might do ok out of this politically.
    Who the feck cares about Brexit anymore? Might as well have been an event in the last century now.

    We are quite possibly only days away from a war across europe.
    Indeed, Boris thought he'd put the pandemic to bed (that's not true anyway) and that it was full-speed ahead with Levelling Up and Build Back Better. None of that is happening now, litterally only one thing matters now, stopping Putin before he starts World War III. Even if Putin has the Russian army turn around today the Western world has to abruptly change what it has been doing for decades and prepare for the worst, because until Putin is dead and long gone we cannot trust Russia to not repeat the attack on Ukraine.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    theakes said:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military...
    Hope you can open this, large column of British armour heading at speed for the Estonia/Russian border, tanks etc, this is part of the 1800 UK led battle group for that state, being supported by 300 French arriving there within 24 hours.
    So it begins?

    Your link doesn't work, and it would be weird if it did since it seems to be to something in the car features section.
    Here it is: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/a-huge-convoy-of-british-military-vehicles-spotted-driving-through-estonia/vi-AAUz6uc
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    JP Morgan reckon RU will lose 11% drop in GDP in this crisis.

    Not sure that is enough. Is it based on the idea that at some point sanity will prevail?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Phil said:

    Meanwhile, everyone's favourite journalist, Carole Cadwalladr, thinks Gavin Williamson was knighted as part of Boris's cover-up of Russian links, or something.

    NEW: Boris Johnson awards Gavin Williamson a knighthood.

    Why *now*? In middle of Russian crisis?

    He was appointed defence secretary in Nov 2017 at exact moment, FBI revealed its Trump-Russia investigation began in London.

    Is this relevant?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1499482812889681921

    Carole can be a tad one note, but honestly: can you come up with /any/ sensible reason for Gavin Williamson to be knighted at this specific point in time? (Lets put aside the absurdity of knighting Gavin Williamson at all for the moment...)

    It’s not even gong-passing out season, so this is clearly something that Gavin has been able to insist happens right now & not at some later time.
    It's definitely not this, but if Gav has volunteered to don blue and yellow and head to Kyiv this weekend it would make the timing reasonable.
    I thought penal battalions had gone out of favour.
This discussion has been closed.