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A Ukraine boost for Johnson in the exit date betting? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited March 2022 in General
imageA Ukraine boost for Johnson in the exit date betting? – politicalbetting.com

As can be seen from the betting chart there has been a sharpish move to Johnson in the market on when he will cease to be Prime Minister. Just 5 weeks ago a 2022 exit was seen as a 78% chance – now that is down to a 43% one.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    edited March 2022
    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Personally, I agree with you. But I don't think it is beyond the bounds of possibility that he does something egregious between now and the end of the year that tips everyone over the edge. He is just too ill disciplined.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Yeah - I never really thought he was in much danger to be honest. Great odds available IMO at the moment.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited March 2022
    Rishi and Truss watching as Ben Wallace soars

    If I was betting I would put a bit on him, he is having a good war

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1498641548908670986?t=4B2Ei0GEJ1v4qjrZ-nJ9Ow&s=19
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590

    Rishi and Truss watcjing as Ben Wallace soars

    If I was betting I would put a bit on him, he is having a good war

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1498641548908670986?t=4B2Ei0GEJ1v4qjrZ-nJ9Ow&s=19

    He gets to be one of the "big number twos" (now...stop it...no...ooh...well...aaaah....get away with you), not the leader.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    UK INTERIOR MINISTER PATEL SAYS WE ENDORSE UKRAINE'S CALL TO SUSPEND RUSSIA FROM INTERPOL

    https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1498647767400472580

    Hmmmm

    Former heads of Interpol include

    image
    I think it’s amazing they are still in it.
    I can't remember, but is there still a Saudi head of the UN Human Rights thing?
    🤦‍♀️
    It might have been UN Women's Rights actually.

    But hey, transferable skills, right?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Not sure how reliable this is, but interesting if remotely true.

    https://twitter.com/sbreakintl/status/1498619303717142529
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Boris was safe the moment all those Tory MPs did their 'Let's wait for the Sue Gray report' wibble. Thereafter Boris had the space to cement the spin and nobble the waverers. Operation Save Big Dog worked like a charm.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited March 2022
    Yesterday's RedfieldWilton poll was also a huge boost to Boris.

    Johnson and Starmer are now tied on preferred PM 36% each but Starmer now leads Sunak as preferred PM 37% to 36%.

    No way Tory MPs replace Boris on those numbers

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498357496976654337?s=19

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498364904180523010?s=19
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    edited March 2022

    Alternatively, Ukraine boots out the Ruskies, Putin gets replaced by somebody not insane and prepared to treat fixing the Russian economy as a priority, a 90 foot statue of Boris gets erected in Kyiv and he can retire from politics at this year's conference - to a massively lucrative speaking circuit on "How I bested Mad Vlad".....

    Maybe?

    You've forgotten the two dozen children called BorisJohnson, all singing in harmony. Surprisingly, he's not actually related to all of them...
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited March 2022
    Omnium said:

    Not sure how reliable this is, but interesting if remotely true.

    https://twitter.com/sbreakintl/status/1498619303717142529

    This is just what I thought before, and mentioned upthread in the early hours of the morning, in response to a RUSI researcher's article who was trying to find all sorts of narrowly technical reasons why air support might be difficult. There's something going on with central command.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    I'm no expert - but this chart suggests to me that the Russian state expended a lot of effort (and currency reserves?) propping up the rouble this morning, after which it has drifted back out to where it started.
    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/GBPRUB=X?p=GBPRUB=X&.tsrc=fin-srch
    That must have been expensive.

    This is where the battle will ultimately be won. If I'm right in my guess, billions must have been spent. Many fighter jets' worth.
  • Blimey - even Priti Patel speaking well in the HOC
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Blimey - even Priti Patel speaking well in the HOC

    Tories dragged to the right place kicking and screaming Big G. Thank goodness for effective opposition parties.

    200,000 @ over £1,000 to come in, That’s a nice little earner for us Brits. When you are building a pre election tax slash fund, every little helps. As Tory government has made clear, if Ukrainians don’t wish to cough up the money there are alternative routes for the Ukraine refugees, such as the Seasonal Workers Scheme.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Still keeping track of the at times quite frank Russia Today website (before it's banned), and see a piece by what appears to be a senior politician/commentator, describing the invasion in detached terms as an extremely drastic operation undertaken by the leadership which will lead to prolonged isolation.:

    "The Russian leadership, which decided on extremely drastic steps, probably understood the consequences, or even consciously aspired to them. The page of cooperation with the West has been turned. This does not mean that isolationism will become the norm, but it does mark the end of an important historical chapter in political relations. The new Cold War will not end quickly."

    He notably refrains from endorsing it. If that's typical of senior Russian observers, it does suggest that Putin will not be kept in office if the invasion is seen to fail.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/550873-ukraine-action-end-era/
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521
    Omnium said:

    Not sure how reliable this is, but interesting if remotely true.

    https://twitter.com/sbreakintl/status/1498619303717142529

    That is quite remarkable.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590
    edited March 2022

    Still keeping track of the at times quite frank Russia Today website (before it's banned), and see a piece by what appears to be a senior politician/commentator, describing the invasion in detached terms as an extremely drastic operation undertaken by the leadership which will lead to prolonged isolation.:

    "The Russian leadership, which decided on extremely drastic steps, probably understood the consequences, or even consciously aspired to them. The page of cooperation with the West has been turned. This does not mean that isolationism will become the norm, but it does mark the end of an important historical chapter in political relations. The new Cold War will not end quickly."

    He notably refrains from endorsing it. If that's typical of senior Russian observers, it does suggest that Putin will not be kept in office if the invasion is seen to fail.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/550873-ukraine-action-end-era/

    "On one side, there is the exercise of classic hard power, which is guided by simple, unpolished, but plainly understandable principles – blood and soil. Meanwhile, on the other is a modern method of propagating interests and influence, realized through a set of ideological, communicative, and economic tools, which are effective and, at the same time, malleable – commonly referred to as ‘values’."

    That is an extraordinary statement to be made on RT by the "chairman of the Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy".

    It specifically casts the (current) Russian leadership as "not modern", and "not effective" (by inference).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    HYUFD said:

    Yesterday's RedfieldWilton poll was also a huge boost to Boris.

    Johnson and Starmer are now tied on preferred PM 36% each but Starmer now leads Sunak as preferred PM 37% to 36%.

    No way Tory MPs replace Boris on those numbers

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498357496976654337?s=19

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498364904180523010?s=19

    LOL. It’s a tiny rally round flag bounce for a discredited government, even though nation rallies round in time of crisis they can still see government making dumb mistakes every single day. There’s a huge reckoning to come once this crisis is over.

    Ukrainian refugees to use the seasonal workers scheme? Not in my name.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Maybe the end of Putin will also see the end of Putinist propaganda worldwide....?
  • Johnson will lead the Tories into GE2024.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited March 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Yesterday's RedfieldWilton poll was also a huge boost to Boris.

    Johnson and Starmer are now tied on preferred PM 36% each but Starmer now leads Sunak as preferred PM 37% to 36%.

    No way Tory MPs replace Boris on those numbers

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498357496976654337?s=19

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498364904180523010?s=19

    LOL. It’s a tiny rally round flag bounce for a discredited government, even though nation rallies round in time of crisis they can still see government making dumb mistakes every single day. There’s a huge reckoning to come once this crisis is over.

    Ukrainian refugees to use the seasonal workers scheme? Not in my name.
    Re your last paragraph I have not heard any reference by Patel in the HOC just now about the seasonal worker scheme but I did hear her talk about integrating Ukraine children into our education system
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    HYUFD said:

    Yesterday's RedfieldWilton poll was also a huge boost to Boris.

    Johnson and Starmer are now tied on preferred PM 36% each but Starmer now leads Sunak as preferred PM 37% to 36%.

    No way Tory MPs replace Boris on those numbers

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498357496976654337?s=19

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498364904180523010?s=19

    Such value as there is (if there is) would be in 2023, on the basis that no-one knows anything so back the longest price.

    All politics is relative. Events (Boris is a lucky general) recently make people feel that wearing a party hat and even lying about it, while sub-optimal, is not as sub-optimal as killing babies and small children as they sleep, with missiles.

    FWIW my own view is that I have no plans to vote Tory while Boris is in charge, (Patersongate and Savile-smearing SKS being the most serious charges) but that would only last as long as another electable leader and party is available.

    I think the result of the next election as between Tory led or Labour led (almost certainly in alliance of some sort) is back to about 50/50 - ie a two horse race with no data available which distinguishes between them.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348

    Still keeping track of the at times quite frank Russia Today website (before it's banned), and see a piece by what appears to be a senior politician/commentator, describing the invasion in detached terms as an extremely drastic operation undertaken by the leadership which will lead to prolonged isolation.:

    "The Russian leadership, which decided on extremely drastic steps, probably understood the consequences, or even consciously aspired to them. The page of cooperation with the West has been turned. This does not mean that isolationism will become the norm, but it does mark the end of an important historical chapter in political relations. The new Cold War will not end quickly."

    He notably refrains from endorsing it. If that's typical of senior Russian observers, it does suggest that Putin will not be kept in office if the invasion is seen to fail.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/550873-ukraine-action-end-era/

    Throughout history, the Imperial Guards/Security apparatus have had no compunction about swiftly disposing of failed leaders.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    rkrkrk said:

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Yeah - I never really thought he was in much danger to be honest. Great odds available IMO at the moment.
    He is still in danger.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    On topic the Ukraine crisis has not changed what made Johnson unfit for office before the crisis. Yes he has had a pretty good crisis - though I suspect a lot of that was down to the groundwork the U.K. has been laying down for seven years in the Ukraine, very little, if any if it to do with Johnson. Changing leader in the middle of an international crisis is a sign of strength, not weakness.

    Nick Palmer's comments he other day about Boris made me re-evaluate our PM a little. He's obviously not thick or unintelligent, and neither is he lazy: anyone lazy would not put themselves up for election. It's too much bother.

    Instead, I wonder if he has a lazy mind. Too often, he chooses not to think too heavily about a topic, perhaps even being swayed by whomever he's talked to recently (e.g. Paterson). I've worked with someone like that in the past: highly intelligent with excellent qualifications, but all too often chose not to use his brain and did random stuff instead. He was also quite impulsive, and I think Johnson might be a little that way too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    On topic the Ukraine crisis has not changed what made Johnson unfit for office before the crisis. Yes he has had a pretty good crisis - though I suspect a lot of that was down to the groundwork the U.K. has been laying down for seven years in Ukraine, very little, if any if it to do with Johnson. Changing leader in the middle of an international crisis is a sign of strength, not weakness.

    An excellent post.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Total nonsense. Safe for another month, maybe two. His fate is partially entwined with that of Putin, but not entirely.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    If the Russian army's been sent into Ukraine as poorly prepared and organised as is suggested below, even a win for the army may not save Putin. There will be a lot of pi**ed off soliders, and not just in the junior ranks.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Sainsbury's sitrep. 70-80 per cent masked. Large gaps on shelves; no idea why.

    In other local developments: Belisha beacons changed to use LEDs rather than whatever they used before.
  • https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1498651373667291136

    I would trust Keir Starmer more than Priti Patel on national security matters
  • LOL!


    Stanley Pignal @spignal

    Marine Le Pen's party is binning its 8-page electoral tract, which features a picture of her shaking hands with Vladimir Putin. Apparently that's not a vote-winner any more! 1.2 million copies had been printed.


    https://twitter.com/spignal/status/1498636902639017985

    POFWSS
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    mwadams said:

    Still keeping track of the at times quite frank Russia Today website (before it's banned), and see a piece by what appears to be a senior politician/commentator, describing the invasion in detached terms as an extremely drastic operation undertaken by the leadership which will lead to prolonged isolation.:

    "The Russian leadership, which decided on extremely drastic steps, probably understood the consequences, or even consciously aspired to them. The page of cooperation with the West has been turned. This does not mean that isolationism will become the norm, but it does mark the end of an important historical chapter in political relations. The new Cold War will not end quickly."

    He notably refrains from endorsing it. If that's typical of senior Russian observers, it does suggest that Putin will not be kept in office if the invasion is seen to fail.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/550873-ukraine-action-end-era/

    "On one side, there is the exercise of classic hard power, which is guided by simple, unpolished, but plainly understandable principles – blood and soil. Meanwhile, on the other is a modern method of propagating interests and influence, realized through a set of ideological, communicative, and economic tools, which are effective and, at the same time, malleable – commonly referred to as ‘values’."

    That is an extraordinary statement to be made on RT by the "chairman of the Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy".

    It specifically casts the (current) Russian leadership as "not modern", and "not effective" (by inference).
    RT - the official voice of Russia - endorsing "blood and soil" nationalism.

    There is, incidentally, a very similar passage in Mein Kampf or the second book damning League Of Nations style values vs "blood and soil" nationalism.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Boris was safe the moment all those Tory MPs did their 'Let's wait for the Sue Gray report' wibble. Thereafter Boris had the space to cement the spin and nobble the waverers. Operation Save Big Dog worked like a charm.
    Boris being the luckiest of generals Putin's intervention in Partygate has had an effect too. Though if Putin sticks around it also means that the danger in some longer term bets (anything after the 4.35 at Leicester this afternoon??) is that there won't be a payout because there won't be a planet to do it on.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Total nonsense. Safe for another month, maybe two. His fate is partially entwined with that of Putin, but not entirely.
    Whether Putin goes or not, there is still going to be a very difficult inquest on how he secured so much of a presence in the UK. It may actually be rather harsh on Boris, who wasn't in charge for most of it, but he will end up carrying the can for it. But it will surely do for him. He will need to be swept away by a new broom, to get the voters back.
  • Johnson will lead the Tories into GE2024.

    2023 retirement is my expectation. Go out on his own terms and at a high, or so would be his spin for his future.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1498651373667291136

    I would trust Keir Starmer more than Priti Patel on national security matters

    Did you really need "on national security matters"? :wink:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1498651373667291136

    I would trust Keir Starmer more than Priti Patel on national security matters

    You would say that, being a left-leaning Labour supporter.

    However, I'd also say it. And I'm not exactly partisan Labour. ;)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    I wonder whether there is any work being done on encouraging Russian soldiers in the column to desert? It is odd that it hasn't yet been attacked. It looks like a turkey shoot to me for even an outgunned airforce, or a ground force with anti-tank weaponry?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    Boris sounds Prime Ministerial when reading carefully crafted speeches on the Ukraine crisis. That, I think, is the big change. He has an excellent speaking voice.

    But the underlying dangers are still there. Partygate; wallpapergate; levelling up (or not); tax/NI rises; looming inflation and a cost of living crisis; Northern Ireland; misleading Parliament. Not to mention the government's collective tin ear: the Ukrainian refugee question being the latest exemplar.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,126

    Sainsbury's sitrep. 70-80 per cent masked. Large gaps on shelves; no idea why.

    In other local developments: Belisha beacons changed to use LEDs rather than whatever they used before.

    70-80% - blimey. It hasn't been as much as 20% around these parts for weeks.

    On a train carriage yesterday not a single person out of maybe 75 were wearing one.
  • Johnson will lead the Tories into GE2024.

    2023 retirement is my expectation. Go out on his own terms and at a high, or so would be his spin for his future.
    I think there is a realistic likelihood that his actions over Ukraine and his popularity in Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics will provide the perfect opportunity for him to stand down and pursue a career outside Parliament

    2023 seems possible and it may be before depending on when Putin falls
  • https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1498651373667291136

    I would trust Keir Starmer more than Priti Patel on national security matters

    You would say that, being a left-leaning Labour supporter.

    However, I'd also say it. And I'm not exactly partisan Labour. ;)
    I've been ex-communicated by some of my more politically-inclined friends now that I've said Blair was the best PM of the last thirty years. It was worth it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Total nonsense. Safe for another month, maybe two. His fate is partially entwined with that of Putin, but not entirely.
    Whether Putin goes or not, there is still going to be a very difficult inquest on how he secured so much of a presence in the UK. It may actually be rather harsh on Boris, who wasn't in charge for most of it, but he will end up carrying the can for it. But it will surely do for him. He will need to be swept away by a new broom, to get the voters back.
    The sooner the better, unless one is a Labour supporter, in which case one would want him there as long as possible.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Maybe the end of Putin will also see the end of Putinist propaganda worldwide....?
    It's interesting, some comments on Twitter that the anti-Trudeau, anti-vaxx and US insurrectionist tweets have suddenly largely disappeared.

    I wonder why that would be?

    https://twitter.com/zchamu/status/1498486656881643521
    I know one immensely boring person who seems to think that QAnon has all this Ukraine stuff sorted and predicted as part of something to do with Joe Biden having three arms and something involving pizzas and Trump being the messiah and not a very naughty boy.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    HYUFD said:

    Yesterday's RedfieldWilton poll was also a huge boost to Boris.

    Johnson and Starmer are now tied on preferred PM 36% each but Starmer now leads Sunak as preferred PM 37% to 36%.

    No way Tory MPs replace Boris on those numbers

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498357496976654337?s=19

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498364904180523010?s=19

    LOL. It’s a tiny rally round flag bounce for a discredited government, even though nation rallies round in time of crisis they can still see government making dumb mistakes every single day. There’s a huge reckoning to come once this crisis is over.

    Ukrainian refugees to use the seasonal workers scheme? Not in my name.
    Re your last paragraph I have not heard any reference by Patel in the HOC just now about the seasonal worker scheme but I did hear her talk about integrating Ukraine children into our education system
    It’s what they don’t say in the commons Big G, as much as what they do.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/27/uk-expected-ease-visa-restrictions-ukrainians-fleeing-war

    https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-immigration-minister-kevin-foster-criticised-for-suggesting-those-fleeing-russian-forces-apply-to-be-fruit-pickers-in-uk-12553282

    The devils in their instinctive reaction not being the best of British, and all the devil in the following detail they try to hide from parliament

    Bottom line - for all the ridiculous people posting “Boris is safe - the inane positions this team of politicians instinctively make, they are then dragged away from by the true warm spirit of UK, is unnecessary for the Tory party to be responsible for and lose voters over. Truth is, that from this Conservative parliamentary party (especially if it still included some of the great talent Boris ‘ethically cleansed’ in 2019) a far far better leadership and much more competent government can be formed, than this current ragbag mess of Boris toadies
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Omnium said:

    Not sure how reliable this is, but interesting if remotely true.

    https://twitter.com/sbreakintl/status/1498619303717142529

    Astonishing to see it confirmed, yet not particularly surprising. It’s been clear for three days now, that the Russians in Ukraine are woefully unprepared and expected to be greeted by the locals with cheers, rather than missiles and Molotov cocktails.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    London

    Lab 57
    Con 21
    LD 12
    Grn 5
    Ref 2

    Rest of South

    Con 43
    Lab 33
    LD 10
    Grn 8
    Ref 5

    Midlands and Wales

    Con 39
    Lab 38
    Ref 6
    LD 6
    PC 3
    Grn 3

    North

    Lab 48
    Con 28
    LD 8
    Grn 7
    Ref 7

    Scotland

    SNP 50
    Lab 18
    Con 18
    LD 8
    Grn 4

    GB

    Lab 39
    Con 34
    LD 9
    Grn 6
    Ref 5

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,741; Fieldwork: 24th - 25th February 2022)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    HYUFD said:

    Yesterday's RedfieldWilton poll was also a huge boost to Boris.

    Johnson and Starmer are now tied on preferred PM 36% each but Starmer now leads Sunak as preferred PM 37% to 36%.

    No way Tory MPs replace Boris on those numbers

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498357496976654337?s=19

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1498364904180523010?s=19

    LOL. It’s a tiny rally round flag bounce for a discredited government, even though nation rallies round in time of crisis they can still see government making dumb mistakes every single day. There’s a huge reckoning to come once this crisis is over.

    Ukrainian refugees to use the seasonal workers scheme? Not in my name.
    Re your last paragraph I have not heard any reference by Patel in the HOC just now about the seasonal worker scheme but I did hear her talk about integrating Ukraine children into our education system
    It’s what they don’t say in the commons Big G, as much as what they do.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/27/uk-expected-ease-visa-restrictions-ukrainians-fleeing-war

    https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-immigration-minister-kevin-foster-criticised-for-suggesting-those-fleeing-russian-forces-apply-to-be-fruit-pickers-in-uk-12553282

    The devils in their instinctive reaction not being the best of British, and all the devil in the following detail they try to hide from parliament

    Bottom line - for all the ridiculous people posting “Boris is safe - the inane positions this team of politicians instinctively make, they are then dragged away from by the true warm spirit of UK, is unnecessary for the Tory party to be responsible for and lose voters over. Truth is, that from this Conservative parliamentary party (especially if it still included some of the great talent Boris ‘ethically cleansed’ in 2019) a far far better leadership and much more competent government can be formed, than this current ragbag mess of Boris toadies
    I’m glad and relieved I have grown up a Libdem and not a Tory - there are other parties for right wingers to support.
  • London

    Lab 57
    Con 21
    LD 12
    Grn 5
    Ref 2

    Rest of South

    Con 43
    Lab 33
    LD 10
    Grn 8
    Ref 5

    Midlands and Wales

    Con 39
    Lab 38
    Ref 6
    LD 6
    PC 3
    Grn 3

    North

    Lab 48
    Con 28
    LD 8
    Grn 7
    Ref 7

    Scotland

    SNP 50
    Lab 18
    Con 18
    LD 8
    Grn 4

    GB

    Lab 39
    Con 34
    LD 9
    Grn 6
    Ref 5

    (YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,741; Fieldwork: 24th - 25th February 2022)

    This is like 2005 bad except for Scotland.

    Where are the voters going to come from to get a Tory majority? Labour is basically back up to 2017 numbers and I can't see those voters going now Brexit is over and Corbyn is gone.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    On topic the Ukraine crisis has not changed what made Johnson unfit for office before the crisis. Yes he has had a pretty good crisis - though I suspect a lot of that was down to the groundwork the U.K. has been laying down for seven years in Ukraine, very little, if any if it to do with Johnson. Changing leader in the middle of an international crisis is a sign of strength, not weakness.

    To an extent Johnson is enjoying the benefits of incumbency, and I think as the incumbent he has every right to accept the spoils. Taking the smooth with the rough, if you like.

    As a Johnson critic I find it difficult to come to terms with Johnson's very recent campaigning, grandstanding and as I see it milking a desperately sad war.

    Others have said on here that Zelensky appreciates Johnson's heightened profile in the light of the war. Maybe they are right and I am cynically wrong, but let's not forget Johnson has a track record as a self-serving, self- publicist. I would add, Biden, Scholz and even our own Ben Wallace seem to be getting the job done with a minimum of fuss.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Yep, think he's surviving this year and more likely than not to be leading into the GE. I'll be happy bettingwise about this and in every other way pissed off. Johnson hasn't become one iota less of a disgrace to his office just because Putin has invaded Ukraine. But, yes, the betting looks good. My Johnson exit date profile is skewed long and my Starmer Next PM position is shaping up to be one of the most lucrative long term political punts I've ever done.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited March 2022
    @Mexicanpete as an anti-Tory (at present), is one to listen to as he would be inclined to say things are bad for the Tories yet he has often said the opposite. I rate his judgment highly.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    algarkirk said:

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Maybe the end of Putin will also see the end of Putinist propaganda worldwide....?
    It's interesting, some comments on Twitter that the anti-Trudeau, anti-vaxx and US insurrectionist tweets have suddenly largely disappeared.

    I wonder why that would be?

    https://twitter.com/zchamu/status/1498486656881643521
    I know one immensely boring person who seems to think that QAnon has all this Ukraine stuff sorted and predicted as part of something to do with Joe Biden having three arms and something involving pizzas and Trump being the messiah and not a very naughty boy.

    I am trying to figure out what I might be able to sell to people on the gullible political extremes with my slightly better than modest knowledge of social media marketing. It could be substantial.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    I'm not sure any reason would've been enough. The Cons are indebted to Johnson. And the PM seems to have a gift for exploiting those who want to believe that he will change.

    My view is that he could've received direct Russian donations and there would be enablers claiming that at least the money could now be frozen. Its Trumpian, there will always be excuses, misdirection and outright lies.

    The mans not leaving till the election. And he might well win again.

    (I've been betting on these assumptions)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Regretfully so.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    I'm not sure any reason would've been enough. The Cons are indebted to Johnson. And the PM seems to have a gift for exploiting those who want to believe that he will change.

    My view is that he could've received direct Russian donations and there would be enablers claiming that at least the money could now be frozen. Its Trumpian, there will always be excuses, misdirection and outright lies.

    The mans not leaving till the election. And he might well win again.

    (I've been betting on these assumptions)

    You have wasted your money. This is his swansong.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Blimey - even Priti Patel speaking well in the HOC

    Not pronouncing her g's, surely?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1498651373667291136

    I would trust Keir Starmer more than Priti Patel on national security matters

    You would say that, being a left-leaning Labour supporter.

    However, I'd also say it. And I'm not exactly partisan Labour. ;)
    I've been ex-communicated by some of my more politically-inclined friends now that I've said Blair was the best PM of the last thirty years. It was worth it.
    I always feel the Blair years were a lost opportunity to achieve so much more. He could have been a great PM, he had it all within his grasp.
    In addition I feel he is largely responsible for so much that is bad in politics with the leading parts played by Campbell, Mandleson, Draper (sorry you are so ill, I hope you recover) and some include Brown to put a few in the frame.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Given a majority of the Scottish public who voted voted to have a referendum, it's not an unreasonable elision.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Carnyx said:

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Given a majority of the Scottish public who voted voted to have a referendum, it's not an unreasonable elision.
    They already had one. No point me voting for a referendum on Brexit. We had one. My side lost.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    It cannot be a unique conclusion that Putin clearly wants a new Cold War, even though those within Russia's influence would be fewer than last time. It's also obvious he is desperate for said Cold War to not be Russia's fault. But how he expected to manage that when all but the barest minority of those who can usually be relied upon to blame the West cannot argue that in the face invasion, i do not know.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1498651373667291136

    I would trust Keir Starmer more than Priti Patel on national security matters

    You would say that, being a left-leaning Labour supporter.

    However, I'd also say it. And I'm not exactly partisan Labour. ;)
    I've been ex-communicated by some of my more politically-inclined friends now that I've said Blair was the best PM of the last thirty years. It was worth it.
    And obviously the best Labour PM of the last 30 years. By a country mile.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited March 2022
    Cookie said:

    I'm no expert - but this chart suggests to me that the Russian state expended a lot of effort (and currency reserves?) propping up the rouble this morning, after which it has drifted back out to where it started.
    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/GBPRUB=X?p=GBPRUB=X&.tsrc=fin-srch
    That must have been expensive.

    This is where the battle will ultimately be won. If I'm right in my guess, billions must have been spent. Many fighter jets' worth.

    Yup, they’ve spent billions on propping up the ruble, and it’s gone nowhere.

    The alternative, of course, being not having spent the billions, and the official rates looking more like the unofficial rates reported at the exchanges in Moscow - 15,000 rubles for one Ben Franklin.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Given a majority of the Scottish public who voted voted to have a referendum, it's not an unreasonable elision.
    They already had one. No point me voting for a referendum on Brexit. We had one. My side lost.
    They explicitly voted to have another referendum. Rather less defeatist.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    algarkirk said:

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Maybe the end of Putin will also see the end of Putinist propaganda worldwide....?
    It's interesting, some comments on Twitter that the anti-Trudeau, anti-vaxx and US insurrectionist tweets have suddenly largely disappeared.

    I wonder why that would be?

    https://twitter.com/zchamu/status/1498486656881643521
    I know one immensely boring person who seems to think that QAnon has all this Ukraine stuff sorted and predicted as part of something to do with Joe Biden having three arms and something involving pizzas and Trump being the messiah and not a very naughty boy.

    I am trying to figure out what I might be able to sell to people on the gullible political extremes with my slightly better than modest knowledge of social media marketing. It could be substantial.
    I'm sure the GOP and CCHQ have beaten you to it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    mwadams said:

    Still keeping track of the at times quite frank Russia Today website (before it's banned), and see a piece by what appears to be a senior politician/commentator, describing the invasion in detached terms as an extremely drastic operation undertaken by the leadership which will lead to prolonged isolation.:

    "The Russian leadership, which decided on extremely drastic steps, probably understood the consequences, or even consciously aspired to them. The page of cooperation with the West has been turned. This does not mean that isolationism will become the norm, but it does mark the end of an important historical chapter in political relations. The new Cold War will not end quickly."

    He notably refrains from endorsing it. If that's typical of senior Russian observers, it does suggest that Putin will not be kept in office if the invasion is seen to fail.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/550873-ukraine-action-end-era/

    "On one side, there is the exercise of classic hard power, which is guided by simple, unpolished, but plainly understandable principles – blood and soil. Meanwhile, on the other is a modern method of propagating interests and influence, realized through a set of ideological, communicative, and economic tools, which are effective and, at the same time, malleable – commonly referred to as ‘values’."

    That is an extraordinary statement to be made on RT by the "chairman of the Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy".

    It specifically casts the (current) Russian leadership as "not modern", and "not effective" (by inference).
    RT - the official voice of Russia - endorsing "blood and soil" nationalism.

    There is, incidentally, a very similar passage in Mein Kampf or the second book damning League Of Nations style values vs "blood and soil" nationalism.
    *off topic, but then the topic isn’t omg WWIII

    What are battlefield nuclear weapons? Is it just the same as big nuclear weapons only designed to make smaller bang considering your own people on the battlefield

    Are depleted uranium shells we used in Iraq that made many of our own service people ill classed as battlefield nuclear weapon?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Boris sounds Prime Ministerial when reading carefully crafted speeches on the Ukraine crisis. That, I think, is the big change. He has an excellent speaking voice.

    But the underlying dangers are still there. Partygate; wallpapergate; levelling up (or not); tax/NI rises; looming inflation and a cost of living crisis; Northern Ireland; misleading Parliament. Not to mention the government's collective tin ear: the Ukrainian refugee question being the latest exemplar.

    Not ad libbing, Peppas, etc.? That's an interesting observation, thanks. And just as well for something so sensitive.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Where’s a swing back graph when you need one?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    stjohn said:

    Just cashed out my Ukraine to win Eurovision at 3.55. +£200 profit.

    Well done!

    A lot of talk here about what to do with the World Cup qualifier against Ukraine in Glasgow on 24 March.

    A lot of Scots consider it grossly unfair to continue with the match when we would effectively be playing a Youth team, as most adult Ukrainian men are serving their country or otherwise prohibited from turning up.

    Consensus seems to be that we should concede the match and they get the 3 points, plus donating all the ticket money to war relief.

    Why not give Ukraine a bye all the way to the final and let a Ukrainian youth lift the World Cup trophy?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    NEW: Understand the UK is considering a move to suspend Russia from the UN Security Council. They’re one of only five permanent members.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1498637360745136130
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Omnium said:

    Not sure how reliable this is, but interesting if remotely true.

    https://twitter.com/sbreakintl/status/1498619303717142529

    It is very interesting, and I had some thoughts about an adjacent issue, but because I would hate any Russian to read them I will keep shtum. When God willing this is all over I expect there will be books written about this.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    I'm not sure any reason would've been enough. The Cons are indebted to Johnson. And the PM seems to have a gift for exploiting those who want to believe that he will change.

    My view is that he could've received direct Russian donations and there would be enablers claiming that at least the money could now be frozen. Its Trumpian, there will always be excuses, misdirection and outright lies.

    The mans not leaving till the election. And he might well win again.

    (I've been betting on these assumptions)

    You have wasted your money. This is his swansong.
    Whatever happens he's not going willingly. Some one will have to push him out and I just don't see any minister going over the top.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    @Mexicanpete as an anti-Tory (at present), is one to listen to as he would be inclined to say things are bad for the Tories yet he has often said the opposite. I rate his judgment highly.

    Thankyou Horse, you are too kind! Greetings from the KFC car park in Risca. Unlikely ever to be a Tory. I do think Johnson will (and as the incumbent, should) benefit from a gaffe free war. Those are the rules.

    I suspect should Johnson survive Partygate (which is undeserved) he may see problems come the next election. As he knows this, he might cut and run for a snap "a vote for anyone but me is a vote for Putin" election. I have bet on a 2022 GE. I either win over £500 or lose £35.

    Even turning into Churchill might be problematic when Dom reminds us of No 10 parties, assuming the current excitement ever dies down.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Given a majority of the Scottish public who voted voted to have a referendum, it's not an unreasonable elision.
    They already had one. No point me voting for a referendum on Brexit. We had one. My side lost.
    They explicitly voted to have another referendum. Rather less defeatist.
    That is the problem with Scottish Nationalism, no sorry nationalism; democracy is good, provided it provides the answer we want.

    Tell me, if Scotland had a referendum and separatism won, would you be in favour of another referendum 5 or 6 years later to ask whether they would like to rejoin?

    Would you be in favour of some parts of Scotland retaining their membership of UK, rather like some Scots Nats suggested visa vis Scotland and membership of the EU?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Agree in spirit but to be pedantic I'd more say it's 'very likely' he's safe. If you want numbers, he's a 75% chance to still be there 1st Jan 23 and a 66% chance to lead into the GE.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    mwadams said:

    Still keeping track of the at times quite frank Russia Today website (before it's banned), and see a piece by what appears to be a senior politician/commentator, describing the invasion in detached terms as an extremely drastic operation undertaken by the leadership which will lead to prolonged isolation.:

    "The Russian leadership, which decided on extremely drastic steps, probably understood the consequences, or even consciously aspired to them. The page of cooperation with the West has been turned. This does not mean that isolationism will become the norm, but it does mark the end of an important historical chapter in political relations. The new Cold War will not end quickly."

    He notably refrains from endorsing it. If that's typical of senior Russian observers, it does suggest that Putin will not be kept in office if the invasion is seen to fail.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/550873-ukraine-action-end-era/

    "On one side, there is the exercise of classic hard power, which is guided by simple, unpolished, but plainly understandable principles – blood and soil. Meanwhile, on the other is a modern method of propagating interests and influence, realized through a set of ideological, communicative, and economic tools, which are effective and, at the same time, malleable – commonly referred to as ‘values’."

    That is an extraordinary statement to be made on RT by the "chairman of the Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy".

    It specifically casts the (current) Russian leadership as "not modern", and "not effective" (by inference).
    RT - the official voice of Russia - endorsing "blood and soil" nationalism.

    There is, incidentally, a very similar passage in Mein Kampf or the second book damning League Of Nations style values vs "blood and soil" nationalism.
    *off topic, but then the topic isn’t omg WWIII

    What are battlefield nuclear weapons? Is it just the same as big nuclear weapons only designed to make smaller bang considering your own people on the battlefield

    Are depleted uranium shells we used in Iraq that made many of our own service people ill classed as battlefield nuclear weapon?
    DU isn't a nuclear weapon. In fact the reverse - it has had the er.... fun stuff taken out.

    It is used for armour piecing rounds for the following reasons

    - It is incredibly dense - effectiveness is a function of density
    - I can be forged and worked quite easily
    - It can be made to self sharpen - as it goes through the armour, bits crack off, making the tip actually sharper.
    - It pyrophoricity - after it breaks through the armour, the fragments react violently with oxygen. It pretty much explodes. Which sets fire to everything vaguely flammable.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1498664219692212226

    At least 5 new Russian supply convoys hit today. Logistics are hard at the best of times, when you've unexpectedly launched a war and haven't got any semblance of control over the resupply routes it's even harder, as they're finding out.
  • Is there much evidence of swingback?

    As far as I can see, Opinium's lead has grown for Labour and is smaller because of the methodology change.

    IPSOS, Focal, Survation still showing large leads?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2022
    Chinese FM Wang Yi finally calls it a “war” (战事) in his Tuesday call with Ukraine’s @DmytroKuleba, the first since the Russian invasion began.

    https://fmprc.gov.cn/web/wjbzhd/202203/t20220301_10646886.shtml

    We’ll still have to wait for the official translation, since it could also be translated as battles.


    https://twitter.com/StuartKLau/status/1498666912976457738
  • What we are not seeing, as we have before, is Labour's score dropping at all, they are up and around the 38-40 mark, i.e. 2017 levels.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    mwadams said:

    Still keeping track of the at times quite frank Russia Today website (before it's banned), and see a piece by what appears to be a senior politician/commentator, describing the invasion in detached terms as an extremely drastic operation undertaken by the leadership which will lead to prolonged isolation.:

    "The Russian leadership, which decided on extremely drastic steps, probably understood the consequences, or even consciously aspired to them. The page of cooperation with the West has been turned. This does not mean that isolationism will become the norm, but it does mark the end of an important historical chapter in political relations. The new Cold War will not end quickly."

    He notably refrains from endorsing it. If that's typical of senior Russian observers, it does suggest that Putin will not be kept in office if the invasion is seen to fail.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/550873-ukraine-action-end-era/

    "On one side, there is the exercise of classic hard power, which is guided by simple, unpolished, but plainly understandable principles – blood and soil. Meanwhile, on the other is a modern method of propagating interests and influence, realized through a set of ideological, communicative, and economic tools, which are effective and, at the same time, malleable – commonly referred to as ‘values’."

    That is an extraordinary statement to be made on RT by the "chairman of the Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy".

    It specifically casts the (current) Russian leadership as "not modern", and "not effective" (by inference).
    RT - the official voice of Russia - endorsing "blood and soil" nationalism.

    There is, incidentally, a very similar passage in Mein Kampf or the second book damning League Of Nations style values vs "blood and soil" nationalism.
    *off topic, but then the topic isn’t omg WWIII

    What are battlefield nuclear weapons? Is it just the same as big nuclear weapons only designed to make smaller bang considering your own people on the battlefield

    Are depleted uranium shells we used in Iraq that made many of our own service people ill classed as battlefield nuclear weapon?
    Battlefield nukes = smaller nuclear explosions. Shorter range weapons to fire them. Most bizarrely Davy Crockett of the 1950s. A glirified bazooka. Maximum range, when it worked properly, 2.5 miles.

    https://www.military-history.org/back-to-the-drawing-board/back-to-the-drawing-board-the-davy-crockett-tactical-nuke.htm

    DU is relatively non-fissile (it's the bit left over when you've removed the stuff you want for A-bombs). It's just heavy and dense (and pyrophoric, it sparks with friction). Which is what one needs for solid shot penetrators in anti-tank guns.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Boris was safe the moment all those Tory MPs did their 'Let's wait for the Sue Gray report' wibble. Thereafter Boris had the space to cement the spin and nobble the waverers. Operation Save Big Dog worked like a charm.
    This hits the nail on the head. Its easier to not act. They sought an excuse, it bought time and it worked.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    I wonder whether there is any work being done on encouraging Russian soldiers in the column to desert? It is odd that it hasn't yet been attacked. It looks like a turkey shoot to me for even an outgunned airforce, or a ground force with anti-tank weaponry?

    The 40 mile column is just puzzling. Even if terrain is bad elsewhere you wouldn't put all your mechanised assets in one long column to be taken out by aerial attack even if you thought you had complete control of the skies. Are there other reasons? Possibly following each other as they have no clue where else they are going?

    Also if they are all bunched together, what happens if one vehicle in the middle runs out of fuel. Won't it cause the whole column to crawl to a halt? It would be very difficult to get a tanker to the middle of the column to refuel it.

    To me the long column seems to be more due to poor logistics than anything else. I'm no military expert but it just doesn't seem to make much sense. I hope I am right.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In other comic relief, when you confuse “the SNP” with “the public”:

    EXCLUSIVE: The Scottish Government has refused to say whether it has sought the views of law officers about the competence of the indyref bill, saying it is not in the public interest

    Opposition have said "uncomfortable truths" are being kept secret


    https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1498580109221056514?s=21

    Given a majority of the Scottish public who voted voted to have a referendum, it's not an unreasonable elision.
    They already had one. No point me voting for a referendum on Brexit. We had one. My side lost.
    They explicitly voted to have another referendum. Rather less defeatist.
    That is the problem with Scottish Nationalism, no sorry nationalism; democracy is good, provided it provides the answer we want.

    Tell me, if Scotland had a referendum and separatism won, would you be in favour of another referendum 5 or 6 years later to ask whether they would like to rejoin?

    Would you be in favour of some parts of Scotland retaining their membership of UK, rather like some Scots Nats suggested visa vis Scotland and membership of the EU?
    Not relevant. The EU was never exerting sovereignty over the UK.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    edited March 2022
    Russian Govt sources now talking about “considerable losses” in Moscow for the first time
    https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/1498643916228280323

    If they're talking about it in Moscow then it must already be common knowledge there.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Omnium said:

    Not sure how reliable this is, but interesting if remotely true.

    https://twitter.com/sbreakintl/status/1498619303717142529

    That is quite remarkable.
    To be fair to the Russians, they are conducting this peace keeping mission so far from home, it’s hardly a shock they are struggling so badly with logistics and supply.

    🙂 in a time of the most depressing war I can rely on PB to put a smile on my face.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    LOL!


    Stanley Pignal @spignal

    Marine Le Pen's party is binning its 8-page electoral tract, which features a picture of her shaking hands with Vladimir Putin. Apparently that's not a vote-winner any more! 1.2 million copies had been printed.


    https://twitter.com/spignal/status/1498636902639017985

    That's fantastic stuff. The President has no choice but to engage with other world leaders but doing so voluntarily?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    mwadams said:

    Still keeping track of the at times quite frank Russia Today website (before it's banned), and see a piece by what appears to be a senior politician/commentator, describing the invasion in detached terms as an extremely drastic operation undertaken by the leadership which will lead to prolonged isolation.:

    "The Russian leadership, which decided on extremely drastic steps, probably understood the consequences, or even consciously aspired to them. The page of cooperation with the West has been turned. This does not mean that isolationism will become the norm, but it does mark the end of an important historical chapter in political relations. The new Cold War will not end quickly."

    He notably refrains from endorsing it. If that's typical of senior Russian observers, it does suggest that Putin will not be kept in office if the invasion is seen to fail.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/550873-ukraine-action-end-era/

    "On one side, there is the exercise of classic hard power, which is guided by simple, unpolished, but plainly understandable principles – blood and soil. Meanwhile, on the other is a modern method of propagating interests and influence, realized through a set of ideological, communicative, and economic tools, which are effective and, at the same time, malleable – commonly referred to as ‘values’."

    That is an extraordinary statement to be made on RT by the "chairman of the Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy".

    It specifically casts the (current) Russian leadership as "not modern", and "not effective" (by inference).
    RT - the official voice of Russia - endorsing "blood and soil" nationalism.

    There is, incidentally, a very similar passage in Mein Kampf or the second book damning League Of Nations style values vs "blood and soil" nationalism.
    *off topic, but then the topic isn’t omg WWIII

    What are battlefield nuclear weapons? Is it just the same as big nuclear weapons only designed to make smaller bang considering your own people on the battlefield

    Are depleted uranium shells we used in Iraq that made many of our own service people ill classed as battlefield nuclear weapon?
    No.

    Battlefield nukes (tactical nukes) are low-yield weapons designed to punch a small hole in enemy formations. The US even had one, the Davy Crockett, with a yield of just 20 tonnes of TNT. I wouldn't have liked to fire it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

    I think it was basically superseded by powerful conventional weapons or bombs, such as MOAB.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    stjohn said:

    Just cashed out my Ukraine to win Eurovision at 3.55. +£200 profit.

    Well done!

    A lot of talk here about what to do with the World Cup qualifier against Ukraine in Glasgow on 24 March.

    A lot of Scots consider it grossly unfair to continue with the match when we would effectively be playing a Youth team, as most adult Ukrainian men are serving their country or otherwise prohibited from turning up.

    Consensus seems to be that we should concede the match and they get the 3 points, plus donating all the ticket money to war relief.

    Why not give Ukraine a bye all the way to the final and let a Ukrainian youth lift the World Cup trophy?
    I think “all the way to the final” might be pushing it. To the finals maybe but Ukrainians are a proud sporting people and would rather watch some actual matches.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    kinabalu said:

    Yep, think he's surviving this year and more likely than not to be leading into the GE. I'll be happy bettingwise about this and in every other way pissed off. Johnson hasn't become one iota less of a disgrace to his office just because Putin has invaded Ukraine. But, yes, the betting looks good. My Johnson exit date profile is skewed long and my Starmer Next PM position is shaping up to be one of the most lucrative long term political punts I've ever done.

    I used to think he was Falstaff. I'm coming increasingly to the opinion that he's Billy Bunter
    ["On many levels, Bunter's character is deeply unattractive. He is the living embodiment of several of the seven deadly sins: pride, envy, avarice, sloth and, most especially, greed and gluttony.[6] Added to these, Bunter is also nosy, deceitful and obtuse. However these traits are softened by Bunter's cheery optimism, his comically transparent untruthfulness and his reliable ineptitude when attempting to conceal his antics from his schoolfellows and schoolmasters." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Bunter]
  • It’s easy for people to call on the aggressors to stop war but true anti-war activism means putting pressure on your *own* country to take radical and urgent steps that are essential to end the war.

    #1) restore the whip to Jeremy Corbyn -

    https://twitter.com/DawnNute/status/1498666403200741383
  • https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1498662983026757640

    No swingback evident in this poll so it seems like it is all down to methodology differences.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    NEW: Understand the UK is considering a move to suspend Russia from the UN Security Council. They’re one of only five permanent members.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1498637360745136130

    Is the UK sure it wants to open that door?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Johnson is clearly safe until 2023 now. Bizarre that anybody thinks otherwise.

    Boris was safe the moment all those Tory MPs did their 'Let's wait for the Sue Gray report' wibble. Thereafter Boris had the space to cement the spin and nobble the waverers. Operation Save Big Dog worked like a charm.
    Yes they well and truly flunked it. For all the bellicosity of some of them now if the Ukrainian resistance comprised mainly of Tory MPs it would have been all over on day one.
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