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The Ukranian Crisis – Day 5 – politicalbetting.com

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  • IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wild. Ukrainian Defense Minister @oleksiireznikov says, "We offer Russian soldiers a choice: die in an unjust war, or be granted full amnesty and 5 million rubles compensation. If they lay down their arms and voluntarily surrender." https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1498359087184109572

    £34000, or about 5 years wages. At the upper end of estimates of Russian troops in ukr, 200k, that's £6.8bn

    abramovich net worth said to be £10bn odd
    Although as ever hour that passes the ruble is worth less.

    Maybe they should promise payment in New Ruble, once the Putin regime has cratered the economy and shuffled off into history there will need to be a new currency.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Hope this is true

    Ukrainian pilots are now in Ukraine taking delivery of MiG-29’s. This is the among the first batches of aircraft being provided to Ukraine from the E.U. https://twitter.com/turkteknolojisi/status/1498388672688926723

    There is a 17m target range for them...
  • Scott_xP said:
    Can you blame them.

    Although it will be over in Jan 2025 if Trump wins.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited February 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Just watching Clive Myrie reporting from Kyiv and I made my boy laugh by saying that I wanted the air raid siren to go off and him to say "I've started so I'll finish" :)

    It was going off during the Six O'clock News. I was slightly surprised that him and Doucet carried on. He did put a helmet on, but I'm not sure that would help when he's on top of a building!
    "Ladies and Gentlemen, this plane is about to crash into the side of a mountain at 500mph. Please fasten your seatbelts"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wild. Ukrainian Defense Minister @oleksiireznikov says, "We offer Russian soldiers a choice: die in an unjust war, or be granted full amnesty and 5 million rubles compensation. If they lay down their arms and voluntarily surrender." https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1498359087184109572

    £34000, or about 5 years wages. At the upper end of estimates of Russian troops in ukr, 200k, that's £6.8bn

    abramovich net worth said to be £10bn odd
    Although as ever hour that passes the ruble is worth less.

    Maybe they should promise payment in New Ruble, once the Putin regime has cratered the economy and shuffled off into history there will need to be a new currency.
    They should promise payment in $ - that would be more attractive.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/AsamiTerajima/status/1498385994395041797

    "⚡️BREAKING: #Russia's foreign ministry said those supplying lethal weapons to #Ukraine would bear responsibility if they are used during Moscow's ongoing invasion."

    We're locked in a battle that can only escalate, with no off ramps unless Putin gets a sudden bout of sanity, or (hopefully) dies or gets removed.

    I think Biden might have got it right by calling their bluff and not making a big fuss about stuff like that.

    Makes them look desperate.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Omnium said:

    Just watching Clive Myrie reporting from Kyiv and I made my boy laugh by saying that I wanted the air raid siren to go off and him to say "I've started so I'll finish" :)

    They're quite brave. (More than me I think)

    There's a noticeable absence of the adventuring journalist of the Viet-Nam era though.
    Yes, I wouldn't want to be there.

    Part of the issue is that the locals are very wary of strangers. A BBC reporter explained that they had to show their credentials to police after they got noticed by some locals, for example.
  • BREAKING: Monaco freezes RU assets.

    You can run plutocrats but you cannot hide...

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Omnium said:

    BigRich said:

    Omnium said:

    I've just sent messages to all of the Russians I know that'll most likely break our friendships.

    Enough is enough.

    What did you say?
    "Hang your head in shame."
    Your talent for misdirected windbaggery is indefatigable, and I salute it.

    I doubt your friendships take as much breaking as you suppose. "Hang your head in shame" ffs.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wild. Ukrainian Defense Minister @oleksiireznikov says, "We offer Russian soldiers a choice: die in an unjust war, or be granted full amnesty and 5 million rubles compensation. If they lay down their arms and voluntarily surrender." https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1498359087184109572

    £34000, or about 5 years wages. At the upper end of estimates of Russian troops in ukr, 200k, that's £6.8bn

    abramovich net worth said to be £10bn odd
    Interesting idea. Obviously they'll have to stay in Ukraine until the conflict is over.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    BigRich said:

    Omnium said:

    I've just sent messages to all of the Russians I know that'll most likely break our friendships.

    Enough is enough.

    What did you say?
    "Hang your head in shame."
    I suspect quite a few of them already were.
    Of course. I'm being massively unfair. So far as I'm concerned though Russia has to cease to exist. Every little bit of hurt that I can supply to Russians, I will.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Scott_xP said:
    Can you blame them.

    Although it will be over in Jan 2025 if Trump wins.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures - tell him it will in future be called the North Atlantic Trump Organisation.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wild. Ukrainian Defense Minister @oleksiireznikov says, "We offer Russian soldiers a choice: die in an unjust war, or be granted full amnesty and 5 million rubles compensation. If they lay down their arms and voluntarily surrender." https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1498359087184109572

    £34000, or about 5 years wages. At the upper end of estimates of Russian troops in ukr, 200k, that's £6.8bn

    abramovich net worth said to be £10bn odd
    Interesting idea. Obviously they'll have to stay in Ukraine until the conflict is over.
    Yes, but the cost of their keep can be taken out of the 5m roubles
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    pigeon said:

    jonny83 said:

    They are still pushing this 'Denazification' line, with the Russian UN ambassador continuing to spout such utter nonsense.

    It's bullshit, and they know it's bullshit - but it's bullshit shat out for domestic consumption. Those utterances are for the benefit of ultranationalists and credulous dimwits at home who swallow everything parroted by Russian state television, not the rest of the world.
    If we’re doing nazi comparisons…

    Two pictures of Ukraine's Odesa opera theater with anti-tank hedgehogs, bracing to repel invaders

    Left: 1941
    Right: 2022

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1498368192497991682
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    BREAKING: Monaco freezes RU assets.

    You can run plutocrats but you cannot hide...

    Any word on the football club? Owned by Dmitry Rybolovlev.
  • "A convoy of Russian tanks and military vehicles on the outskirts of Kyiv now stretches to over 17 miles.

    Images from the US satellite company Maxar show that Russian ground forces continued to move closer to the Ukrainian capital today."

    Telegraph blog.


    Biden could destroy half the RU military in one massive air strike.

    Tempting?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    rkrkrk said:

    End of Feb and I have lost my bet with @BigRich that England hospitalizations would exceed 3k/day.

    Will make a £25 donation to pb com shortly.

    With hindsight, I essentially made the bet as hospitalizations were peaking. Think I dramatically underestimated the impact that the booster program would have.

    No offence, but I'm really glad you lost that bet.

    So much so, if OGH puts another banner on or sends me a linkie, I'll match your loss to PB. :)

    It's a fraction of what it'll have cost to get to the meet, anyway.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    BigRich said:

    Omnium said:

    I've just sent messages to all of the Russians I know that'll most likely break our friendships.

    Enough is enough.

    What did you say?
    "Hang your head in shame."
    Your talent for misdirected windbaggery is indefatigable, and I salute it.

    I doubt your friendships take as much breaking as you suppose. "Hang your head in shame" ffs.
    Perhaps you're right.
  • kle4 said:

    One better poll for Tories in sequence of Tories going backward little bit each time polls, and it’s noticeable those who didn’t want to talk polls over weekend now want to talk it. 🙂 so okay, because for us Libdems analyse shows there is one certain message across ALL the recent “crisis” polling, and that is Libdems definitely bouncing up in them all. And if we are to analyse most likely reason for this, it surely has to point to the often slow and error strewn performance of Boris and his government over this period?

    Lack of likes to, admittedly one of my more partisan posts celebrating confirmed poll surge, I put down to Libdems already seated for dinner. Except foxy, though foxy is a law unto himself like a proper fox.

    Well obviously it’s just my opinion and analysis. And I don’t have all the long term certainty in what I am suggesting today to prove it. But take what has been happening last couple of days, world open armed and loving to displaced and desperate Ukrainians, apart from UK under the Tories, who are pondering if they can “work the land” fill some of the crappier vacancies, and even worse using excuse some might be spy’s or terrorists, whilst simply lying about their policy in the HoC

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/johnson-government-mood-ukrainian-refugees-war

    Isn’t this exactly the type of Tory behaviour, where you have voters recently fluid between Lib Dem and Tory based on how unappealing and dangerous the Labour offer is, has voters flowing now towards the libdems? And if the government continues to be out of touch and mistake laden at times in this crisis, this could just be the start of this realignment of support, prove more durable long term than ephemeral war Lead rally to flag during crisis
    I would just comment I am open to voting for any of the three parties and at this stage I have no idea which

    However, it is fair to say Boris has improved, and his address last night to the Ukrainians in their church was heartfelt and he received an amazing spontaneous standing ovation from the congregation

    Patel announcing that 100, 000 Ukrainians will be accepted into the UK with full rights to work is good and probably higher than will actually arrive

    War has changed everything and predicting the future of politics in the UK is very difficult
    Perfectly capable of crying tears of woe to your face, while stabbing you in the back.
    He must have long arms.
    BoJo is a fucking freak of nature. AND a freaky fucker.

    My personal assessment, is that he'd rape his own granny to win a Bullingtonian bet.
  • Scott_xP said:
    "Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast"."
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Can you blame them.

    Although it will be over in Jan 2025 if Trump wins.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures - tell him it will in future be called the North Atlantic Trump Organisation.
    Maybe if we give him a 10% cut of any NATO armaments purchases to be spent on hotels and golf links then he would reconsider his opposition to NATO?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/AsamiTerajima/status/1498385994395041797

    "⚡️BREAKING: #Russia's foreign ministry said those supplying lethal weapons to #Ukraine would bear responsibility if they are used during Moscow's ongoing invasion."

    We're locked in a battle that can only escalate, with no off ramps unless Putin gets a sudden bout of sanity, or (hopefully) dies or gets removed.

    It's all bollocks, western lethal weapons are already being used
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    kle4 said:

    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wild. Ukrainian Defense Minister @oleksiireznikov says, "We offer Russian soldiers a choice: die in an unjust war, or be granted full amnesty and 5 million rubles compensation. If they lay down their arms and voluntarily surrender." https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1498359087184109572

    What, each? Fifty thousand dollars is a lot of money!
    For the whole Russian invasion force, that would equate to around 20 hours' worth of US federal tax revenues. Chicken feed.
    The value of cold hard cash can be much underappreciated (not that I expect this particular offer to pan out). I find it hard read most fantasy novels now with gigantic battles without thinking how on earth the bad guys in particular organised the logistics, and how everyone paid their troops long term. Joe Abercrombie is one who does consider that aspect.
    Just been reading Heartstone by C. J. Sansom - the one where the hero ends up on the Mary Rose with the French Navy coming. Logistics features quite a bit in that too, thouigh the hero is not so central to that - more an observer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Can you blame them.

    Although it will be over in Jan 2025 if Trump wins.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures - tell him it will in future be called the North Atlantic Trump Organisation.
    Maybe if we give him a 10% cut of any NATO armaments purchases to be spent on hotels and golf links then he would reconsider his opposition to NATO?
    Annual NATO summits at Mar a Lago.

    Shameful, but needs must. I genuinely think he has a very good chance of winning.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/1498392515262746630

    Musk is most definitely not a good man, but that's a lot of starlink connections provided to Ukraine, and it could/will be crucial in communicating with leaders in encircled cities.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    #Breaking An International Criminal Court prosecutor is to open a probe into possible war crimes or crimes against humanity in Ukraine https://twitter.com/PA/status/1498391447728447493/photo/1
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    By the way, 1 rouble is now officially worth less than one sheet of toilet paper (UK price).
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Scott_xP said:

    Hope this is true

    Ukrainian pilots are now in Ukraine taking delivery of MiG-29’s. This is the among the first batches of aircraft being provided to Ukraine from the E.U. https://twitter.com/turkteknolojisi/status/1498388672688926723

    There is a 17m target range for them...

    Very brave pilots who get in to them. not sure how much it will change events on the ground but, hopefully it will convince some Russian High command that Ukraine has as much support from West as it will need and leveeing sooner will be better.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited February 2022
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wild. Ukrainian Defense Minister @oleksiireznikov says, "We offer Russian soldiers a choice: die in an unjust war, or be granted full amnesty and 5 million rubles compensation. If they lay down their arms and voluntarily surrender." https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1498359087184109572

    What, each? Fifty thousand dollars is a lot of money!
    For the whole Russian invasion force, that would equate to around 20 hours' worth of US federal tax revenues. Chicken feed.
    The value of cold hard cash can be much underappreciated (not that I expect this particular offer to pan out). I find it hard read most fantasy novels now with gigantic battles without thinking how on earth the bad guys in particular organised the logistics, and how everyone paid their troops long term. Joe Abercrombie is one who does consider that aspect.
    Just been reading Heartstone by C. J. Sansom - the one where the hero ends up on the Mary Rose with the French Navy coming. Logistics features quite a bit in that too, thouigh the hero is not so central to that - more an observer.
    I bloody love the Shardlake series. The last one Tombland had what was basically a 70 page essay on historiography at the end (appreciate that probably doesn't sell it to most, but it shows his approach to detail).
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    IshmaelZ said:
    Gosh, think of the carnage if Ukraine or AN Other managed to get a couple of drones above that. Thousands dead, and effectively an entire russian army out of action.
  • Burn baby burn...



    Andrew Roth
    @Andrew__Roth
    ·
    18m
    Sanctions hit Russia. “I’ll tell them we are going into a crisis that we have never experienced before,” said a Russian businessman leaving the country. “It’s like flying on a plane with no engines or the engines are on fire.” w/ ⁦


    https://twitter.com/Andrew__Roth
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Chameleon said:

    By the way, 1 rouble is now officially worth less than one sheet of toilet paper (UK price).

    Support Ukraine - wipe your arse on a rouble!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Based on Zelensky's twitter feed seems like he can't get Boris off the phone the last few days. The man is busy Boris, leave him alone!
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    BigRich said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hope this is true

    Ukrainian pilots are now in Ukraine taking delivery of MiG-29’s. This is the among the first batches of aircraft being provided to Ukraine from the E.U. https://twitter.com/turkteknolojisi/status/1498388672688926723

    There is a 17m target range for them...

    Very brave pilots who get in to them. not sure how much it will change events on the ground but, hopefully it will convince some Russian High command that Ukraine has as much support from West as it will need and leveeing sooner will be better.
    I would be far from surprised if a couple of suicide missions were run against that convoy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/1498392515262746630

    Musk is most definitely not a good man, but that's a lot of starlink connections provided to Ukraine, and it could/will be crucial in communicating with leaders in encircled cities.

    When I heard he was delivering Starlink terminals to Ukraine, for a moment I did wonder which side he was delivering them to.

    BTW, he and his brother are being investigated for insider trading.
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/feb/24/elon-musk-brother-under-investigation-insider-trading
  • Putin will never win.



    Kristina Berdynskykh @berdynskykh_k

    Ukrainian national anthem in the metro station (bomb shelter) #Ukraine

    https://twitter.com/berdynskykh_k/status/1498379137542762497
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    Burn baby burn...



    Andrew Roth
    @Andrew__Roth
    ·
    18m
    Sanctions hit Russia. “I’ll tell them we are going into a crisis that we have never experienced before,” said a Russian businessman leaving the country. “It’s like flying on a plane with no engines or the engines are on fire.” w/ ⁦


    https://twitter.com/Andrew__Roth

    Or being in an apartment block in Kiev hit by a Russian missile, perhaps.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    Chameleon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Gosh, think of the carnage if Ukraine or AN Other managed to get a couple of drones above that. Thousands dead, and effectively an entire russian army out of action.
    Woods on either side as well, at least at that section. Makes it hard to get around destroyed vehicles, or provides cover for attackers / reduces fire angles.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/1498392515262746630

    Musk is most definitely not a good man, but that's a lot of starlink connections provided to Ukraine, and it could/will be crucial in communicating with leaders in encircled cities.

    The counterpoint to that is that Russian anti-satellite warfare could get very messy, very quickly.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited February 2022
    kle4 said:

    Based on Zelensky's twitter feed seems like he can't get Boris off the phone the last few days. The man is busy Boris, leave him alone!

    Bozza advising Zelensky on strategy? So far it's working well.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    BREAKING: Finland's Minister of Defense announces the country is sending 1500 anti-tank weapons and 2500 assault rifles
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1498389524229259266
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    IshmaelZ said:
    That's a lot of trucks,

    Lots of infantry's, or supply's for forces in area allreay?
  • Chameleon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Gosh, think of the carnage if Ukraine or AN Other managed to get a couple of drones above that. Thousands dead, and effectively an entire russian army out of action.
    Woods on either side as well, at least at that section. Makes it hard to get around destroyed vehicles, or provides cover for attackers / reduces fire angles.
    Wasn't that a vietcong tactic in jungles of vietnam?

    Block what shitty roads there were by blowing up/setting on fire some US military vehicle. No way around for anything other foot soldiers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/1498392515262746630

    Musk is most definitely not a good man, but that's a lot of starlink connections provided to Ukraine, and it could/will be crucial in communicating with leaders in encircled cities.

    When I heard he was delivering Starlink terminals to Ukraine, for a moment I did wonder which side he was delivering them to.

    BTW, he and his brother are being investigated for insider trading.
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/feb/24/elon-musk-brother-under-investigation-insider-trading
    One of the amusing parts of the film Moonfall was the crazy seeming conspiracy theorist dude being a massive fan of Musk, even saying at one point 'What would Elon do?' whilst looking at a SpaceX poster. Despite being a crazy conspiracist he was also 100% right
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    EXCLUSIVE MSCI says removing Russia from indexes "natural next step" http://reut.rs/3ICF2S8 https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1498395156860518411/photo/1
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    IshmaelZ said:
    Apologising is so easy too.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The U.S. has informed the Russian Mission that we are beginning the process of expelling 12 intelligence operatives from the Russian Mission who have abused their privileges of residency in the U.S. by engaging in espionage activities that are adverse to our national security.
    https://twitter.com/USUNSpox/status/1498395166272634890
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375
    edited February 2022

    Chameleon said:

    By the way, 1 rouble is now officially worth less than one sheet of toilet paper (UK price).

    Support Ukraine - wipe your arse on a rouble!
    Not until they bring out a new one with Putin's face on it.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Putin will never win.
    Kristina Berdynskykh @berdynskykh_k

    Ukrainian national anthem in the metro station (bomb shelter) #Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/berdynskykh_k/status/1498379137542762497

    Seeing the mythology of a nation form in real time is just crazy. It's not hard to see many things that will be touchstones of Ukrainian nationhood for at least a century to come unfold before our eyes: Zelenskyy, Snake Island, Ghost of Kyiv (the veracity of a myth rarely matters), hiding in the underground, babushka molotov making sessions etc. It's been said a lot recently, but this week has been one where a decade has happened, and you're probably looking back at 9/11 or the wall falling for a week that has changed so much so quickly.
  • Get the fuckers by the balls...


    max seddon
    @maxseddon
    ·
    1h
    New EU oligarch sanctions just dropped: Fridman, Aven, Usmanov, Timchenko, Mordashov, and Ponomarenko all on the list alongside state company bosses like Sechin and Tokarev, Sergei Roldugin of cello fame, and many more

    with
    @valentinapop
    &
    @Sam1Fleming



    https://twitter.com/maxseddon
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,375
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Finland's Minister of Defense announces the country is sending 1500 anti-tank weapons and 2500 assault rifles
    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1498389524229259266

    Well done, Vlad. Turning all these neighbours who were ambivalent about NATO and trying for neutrality into people who are scared shitless of Russia.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Chameleon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Gosh, think of the carnage if Ukraine or AN Other managed to get a couple of drones above that. Thousands dead, and effectively an entire russian army out of action.
    It's weird. If they are building up these massive convoys without air support - why aren't they being taken out by American, I mean Turkish, I mean Ukrainian drones.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Chameleon said:

    Seeing the mythology of a nation form in real time is just crazy. It's not hard to see many things that will be touchstones of Ukrainian nationhood for at least a century to come unfold before our eyes: Zelenskyy, Snake Island, Ghost of Kyiv (the veracity of a myth rarely matters), hiding in the underground, babushka molotov making sessions etc. It's been said a lot recently, but this week has been one where a decade has happened, and you're probably looking back at 9/11 or the wall falling for a week that has changed so much so quickly.


    Ordinary Ukrainians, driving along, throwing molotov cocktails in broad daylight at Russian military vehicles. Unbelievable resistance.
    https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1498361635605561348
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Further to that - maybe we are. Just waiting to get all the tanks in a line.
  • Chameleon said:

    Putin will never win.
    Kristina Berdynskykh @berdynskykh_k

    Ukrainian national anthem in the metro station (bomb shelter) #Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/berdynskykh_k/status/1498379137542762497

    Seeing the mythology of a nation form in real time is just crazy. It's not hard to see many things that will be touchstones of Ukrainian nationhood for at least a century to come unfold before our eyes: Zelenskyy, Snake Island, Ghost of Kyiv (the veracity of a myth rarely matters), hiding in the underground, babushka molotov making sessions etc. It's been said a lot recently, but this week has been one where a decade has happened, and you're probably looking back at 9/11 or the wall falling for a week that has changed so much so quickly.
    Yep. Zelensky has just built a nation that will last hundreds of years.

    Exactly EVERYTHING that Putin thought would happen in his deluded, possibly Parkinson's meds addled brain is NOT happening.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Chameleon said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Gosh, think of the carnage if Ukraine or AN Other managed to get a couple of drones above that. Thousands dead, and effectively an entire russian army out of action.
    It's weird. If they are building up these massive convoys without air support - why aren't they being taken out by American, I mean Turkish, I mean Ukrainian drones.
    I was wondering the same. Maybe we should assume the Russians do have sufficient air support/defences.
  • It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Chameleon said:

    BigRich said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hope this is true

    Ukrainian pilots are now in Ukraine taking delivery of MiG-29’s. This is the among the first batches of aircraft being provided to Ukraine from the E.U. https://twitter.com/turkteknolojisi/status/1498388672688926723

    There is a 17m target range for them...

    Very brave pilots who get in to them. not sure how much it will change events on the ground but, hopefully it will convince some Russian High command that Ukraine has as much support from West as it will need and leveeing sooner will be better.
    I would be far from surprised if a couple of suicide missions were run against that convoy.
    You don't need to even attack the convoy, attack the road ahead and behind and adjacent roads. Sappers should be able to box them in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited February 2022
    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    I've just sent messages to all of the Russians I know that'll most likely break our friendships.

    Enough is enough.

    Why? Unless they are supporting Putin, it's hardly their fault.
    Because I like Ukranians who I've never met beyond people that don't condemn Putin
    It may not be safe for them or their families to denounce Putin.

    My church has been in contact with our Russian sister church but kept it fairly diplomatic. Encouraging them to pray for peace etc. Protestant churches there are often spied on for being Un-Russian.
    Yes, this is not about Russians - rather Putin and the Russian state… and its apologists.

    Which is also the line the Ukraine government takes.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Omnium said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Apologising is so easy too.
    Omnium said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Apologising is so easy too.
    As is, when you have the wrong end of the stick, dropping it. If you go back to how this started, you will see that you are demanding that I apologise for saying, in effect, "That is as offensively racist as calling someone a n****r." And as for all your russian "friends" who were probably feeling not great about the situation, about which they presumably know about 10000x as much as you do ... does it not occur to you that if you are giving it large about demands for shame and apologies on two COMPLETELY different fronts, on the one website and at the same time, your problem might just be your own weapons-grade self-righteousness?
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Can you blame them.

    Although it will be over in Jan 2025 if Trump wins.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures - tell him it will in future be called the North Atlantic Trump Organisation.
    Maybe if we give him a 10% cut of any NATO armaments purchases to be spent on hotels and golf links then he would reconsider his opposition to NATO?
    Annual NATO summits at Mar a Lago.

    Shameful, but needs must. I genuinely think he has a very good chance of winning.
    45's BFF is NOT helping that cause. As far as I can tell, Republican strategist-types are starting to freak out, whereas up until the invasion they (and many others) thought 2022 was most definitely gonna be a good year for the GOP.

    Could still be. But "definitely" is, to quote a great Republican, "inoperative".

    Disarray of Republicans is quite evident. In contrast to Democrats, who are remarkably united on THIS issue, at least so far.

    Biden's 2022 State of the Union could well be THE speech of his presidency.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    Nigelb said:

    pigeon said:

    jonny83 said:

    They are still pushing this 'Denazification' line, with the Russian UN ambassador continuing to spout such utter nonsense.

    It's bullshit, and they know it's bullshit - but it's bullshit shat out for domestic consumption. Those utterances are for the benefit of ultranationalists and credulous dimwits at home who swallow everything parroted by Russian state television, not the rest of the world.
    If we’re doing nazi comparisons…

    Two pictures of Ukraine's Odesa opera theater with anti-tank hedgehogs, bracing to repel invaders

    Left: 1941
    Right: 2022

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1498368192497991682
    If Anonymous wants to do some real damage to Putin, a short video with Stalingrad-cut to- Kharkiv, then other such WWII atrocities cut to ones in Ukraine with the repetition of “Who now are the fascists?” in Russian, again and again.
    Ending with an image of Hitler cutting to Putin (in similar postures).
    (Unsubtle, but still)

    Get that hacked into TV broadcasts or whatever can get through to Russians en masse.
  • It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

    I think it is safe to say that whenever Putin says somebody else is X or Y that what he means is he is X and Y.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Eabhal said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/AsamiTerajima/status/1498385994395041797

    "⚡️BREAKING: #Russia's foreign ministry said those supplying lethal weapons to #Ukraine would bear responsibility if they are used during Moscow's ongoing invasion."

    We're locked in a battle that can only escalate, with no off ramps unless Putin gets a sudden bout of sanity, or (hopefully) dies or gets removed.

    I think Biden might have got it right by calling their bluff and not making a big fuss about stuff like that.

    Makes them look desperate.
    However underwhelming his administration has been up until now, it has handled this crisis exceptionally well.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Scott_xP said:

    Chameleon said:

    Seeing the mythology of a nation form in real time is just crazy. It's not hard to see many things that will be touchstones of Ukrainian nationhood for at least a century to come unfold before our eyes: Zelenskyy, Snake Island, Ghost of Kyiv (the veracity of a myth rarely matters), hiding in the underground, babushka molotov making sessions etc. It's been said a lot recently, but this week has been one where a decade has happened, and you're probably looking back at 9/11 or the wall falling for a week that has changed so much so quickly.


    Ordinary Ukrainians, driving along, throwing molotov cocktails in broad daylight at Russian military vehicles. Unbelievable resistance.
    https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1498361635605561348
    There is Brave,
    Suicidality Brave
    and now a new level, Ukrainian Brave.
  • It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

    What a nice chap, obviously a sensitive intellectual who wants to fight prejudice in modern Ukraine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Taz said:
    There is a long long gap between the positions of 'NATO expansion upset Russia' to 'Nations should therefore not have been permitted to join NATO' (as I summarise the positions). Such talk offers figleafs of blame toward Russia as bearing 'primary' responsibility as it puts it, but the goal of seeking equivalence is crystal clear and pokes out from beneath that unconvincing figleaf.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Chameleon said:

    Seeing the mythology of a nation form in real time is just crazy. It's not hard to see many things that will be touchstones of Ukrainian nationhood for at least a century to come unfold before our eyes: Zelenskyy, Snake Island, Ghost of Kyiv (the veracity of a myth rarely matters), hiding in the underground, babushka molotov making sessions etc. It's been said a lot recently, but this week has been one where a decade has happened, and you're probably looking back at 9/11 or the wall falling for a week that has changed so much so quickly.


    Ordinary Ukrainians, driving along, throwing molotov cocktails in broad daylight at Russian military vehicles. Unbelievable resistance.
    https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1498361635605561348
    Can't see the morale of the RU conscripted kids who want to be home with mum asap and back watching TicTok and YouTube holding out too long.


  • kle4 said:

    Based on Zelensky's twitter feed seems like he can't get Boris off the phone the last few days. The man is busy Boris, leave him alone!

    Bozza advising Zelensky on strategy? So far it's working well.
    Zelenskyy advising Bozza on strategy? So far it's working well.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    https://twitter.com/RepClayHiggins/status/1498015748492599297

    Among incredibly stiff opposition, I think I've seen the worst take on this by an American politician.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

    I think it is safe to say that whenever Putin says somebody else is X or Y that what he means is he is X and Y.

    First thought: horrible looking old man

    second thought, on googling he turns out to be 9 years younger than me. Plus if I shaved my head I could probably pass for him. or his older brother.
  • It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

    What a nice chap, obviously a sensitive intellectual who wants to fight prejudice in modern Ukraine.
    Looks a bit woke to me.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Hopefully we can sustain interest in this conflict by depicting this invasion of Ukraine as a retarded expression of toxic masculinity.

    We need young social justice warriors to buy in to the conflict, as much as political enthusiasts like ourselves and ageing newspaper readers. We need to keep public interest going. Eyes on the prize - a Putin free Russia.
  • I just found out today about Aleksandr Dugin, the author of Putin's 'Mein Kampf': Foundations Of Geopolitics.

    I'm guessing I'm just a really slow starter, and everyone else has already heard of him and his book?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,381

    It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

    For a minute I thought it was Ross Kemp from the World Cup about to scream ‘Pickford, you beauty’
  • IshmaelZ said:

    It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

    I think it is safe to say that whenever Putin says somebody else is X or Y that what he means is he is X and Y.

    First thought: horrible looking old man

    second thought, on googling he turns out to be 9 years younger than me. Plus if I shaved my head I could probably pass for him. or his older brother.
    Thanks. At least I will know who to look out for on Wednesday :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Can you blame them.

    Although it will be over in Jan 2025 if Trump wins.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures - tell him it will in future be called the North Atlantic Trump Organisation.
    Maybe if we give him a 10% cut of any NATO armaments purchases to be spent on hotels and golf links then he would reconsider his opposition to NATO?
    Annual NATO summits at Mar a Lago.

    Shameful, but needs must. I genuinely think he has a very good chance of winning.
    45's BFF is NOT helping that cause. As far as I can tell, Republican strategist-types are starting to freak out, whereas up until the invasion they (and many others) thought 2022 was most definitely gonna be a good year for the GOP.

    Could still be. But "definitely" is, to quote a great Republican, "inoperative".

    Disarray of Republicans is quite evident. In contrast to Democrats, who are remarkably united on THIS issue, at least so far.

    Biden's 2022 State of the Union could well be THE speech of his presidency.
    Fingers crossed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    BREAKING: @BorisJohnson suffers major defeat on #BordersBill in House of Lords, by 204 votes to 126
    Peers vote to strip out plans to criminalise refugees.

    https://inews.co.uk/opinion/priti-patel-helping-ukrainians-is-a-start-but-real-moral-courage-would-mean-no-refugees-are-criminalised-1488660
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    I just found out today about Aleksandr Dugin, the author of Putin's 'Mein Kampf': Foundations Of Geopolitics.

    I'm guessing I'm just a really slow starter, and everyone else has already heard of him and his book?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

    It's been talked about for a while, but only upon re-reading the wikipedia page I realise how much of it was copied and pasted into Putin's speech/the victory essay that was published by mistake:

    Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Asked today if Ukrainian pensioner refugee Valentina Rumyantsyeva could come to London on the Eurostar having been turned back on Saturday, the Home Secretary said 'yes'. But @ukhomeoffice has since told me she is still not eligible to join her daughter. https://twitter.com/BBCMarkEaston/status/1498363839582248966/photo/1
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Taz said:
    Surprised that the Guardian are giving space for this. It's at odds with the vast majority of their Ukraine opinion articles.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

    I think it is safe to say that whenever Putin says somebody else is X or Y that what he means is he is X and Y.

    First thought: horrible looking old man

    second thought, on googling he turns out to be 9 years younger than me. Plus if I shaved my head I could probably pass for him. or his older brother.
    Hope you don’t already have the SS collar tab tats..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Taz said:
    Surprised that the Guardian are giving space for this. It's at odds with the vast majority of their Ukraine opinion articles.
    Well, offering alternative opinions and all that. The presence of a stupidly contrarian piece can help reinforce the rest.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited February 2022

    Get the fuckers by the balls...


    max seddon
    @maxseddon
    ·
    1h
    New EU oligarch sanctions just dropped: Fridman, Aven, Usmanov, Timchenko, Mordashov, and Ponomarenko all on the list alongside state company bosses like Sechin and Tokarev, Sergei Roldugin of cello fame, and many more

    with
    @valentinapop
    &
    @Sam1Fleming
    https://twitter.com/maxseddon

    A cellist, you say?

    I cannot help wondering whether Olga Kholodnaya is also caught by these sanctions
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    BigRich said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Chameleon said:

    Seeing the mythology of a nation form in real time is just crazy. It's not hard to see many things that will be touchstones of Ukrainian nationhood for at least a century to come unfold before our eyes: Zelenskyy, Snake Island, Ghost of Kyiv (the veracity of a myth rarely matters), hiding in the underground, babushka molotov making sessions etc. It's been said a lot recently, but this week has been one where a decade has happened, and you're probably looking back at 9/11 or the wall falling for a week that has changed so much so quickly.


    Ordinary Ukrainians, driving along, throwing molotov cocktails in broad daylight at Russian military vehicles. Unbelievable resistance.
    https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1498361635605561348
    There is Brave,
    Suicidality Brave
    and now a new level, Ukrainian Brave.
    The Russian APC was being towed by a civilian tractor, so could easily be broken or even captured already.
  • How on earth is it that the smirking traitor is still not offering sanctuary to Ukranian refugees? "Up to 100,000" she says. If they have a family member here and have a g in their name and the border force guard is in the mood to not be a git.

    We should match the EU countries and offer people a 3 year leave to remain.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    kle4 said:

    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wild. Ukrainian Defense Minister @oleksiireznikov says, "We offer Russian soldiers a choice: die in an unjust war, or be granted full amnesty and 5 million rubles compensation. If they lay down their arms and voluntarily surrender." https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1498359087184109572

    What, each? Fifty thousand dollars is a lot of money!
    For the whole Russian invasion force, that would equate to around 20 hours' worth of US federal tax revenues. Chicken feed.
    The value of cold hard cash can be much underappreciated (not that I expect this particular offer to pan out). I find it hard read most fantasy novels now with gigantic battles without thinking how on earth the bad guys in particular organised the logistics, and how everyone paid their troops long term. Joe Abercrombie is one who does consider that aspect.
    The East India Company became the dominant power in India because it paid its soldiers on time, unlike most rivals, who let arrears build up, and expected their soldiers to rely upon pillage.

    One fantasy author who is very good about logistics is actually Tolkien. The movements of infantry and cavalry in the Lord of the Rings all make sense, there are constant references to providing rations to the soldiers, on both sides, and Mordor can only deploy vast armies by dividing them up, and having them march from multiple different bases, from which they can be supplied. That's also why Minas Tirith has to be taken by storm. A vast army would starve to death if it sat down to besiege it for any length of time. Tolkien's background as a soldier comes through in his writing.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    It's believed that Wagner Group (a Russian paramilitary organisation) operatives have been sent in to Kyiv to kill Zelensky and the other "Nazis" in the Ukrainian government.

    The Wagner Group was established by Dmitri Utkin. He looks just the man to de-Nazify Ukraine (check those tats)

    I think it is safe to say that whenever Putin says somebody else is X or Y that what he means is he is X and Y.

    First thought: horrible looking old man

    second thought, on googling he turns out to be 9 years younger than me. Plus if I shaved my head I could probably pass for him. or his older brother.
    Hope you don’t already have the SS collar tab tats..
    These things can be taken off, at a much greater cost than the original tattoo
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: @BorisJohnson suffers major defeat on #BordersBill in House of Lords, by 204 votes to 126
    Peers vote to strip out plans to criminalise refugees.

    https://inews.co.uk/opinion/priti-patel-helping-ukrainians-is-a-start-but-real-moral-courage-would-mean-no-refugees-are-criminalised-1488660

    330 votes? Not even half the House.

    I know they don't ever get a full House, but as someone counted as a general supporter of the Lords its really not good enough. They have to reduce the numbers significantly, and how can it be argued against when most don't even show up?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:
    Surprised that the Guardian are giving space for this. It's at odds with the vast majority of their Ukraine opinion articles.
    Well, offering alternative opinions and all that. The presence of a stupidly contrarian piece can help reinforce the rest.
    A lot of our main stream media are not very bright and too easily fooled. I’ll give you an example you can’t disagree with that proves they are naive. It’s not a negotiation when there is an Exocet targeted on the room your frightened family are huddled in. It’s a war crime. Our media need to flag this up more clearly, When discussing there’s talks and “negotiations”.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    The events of the last week have been extraordinary. I think many are deeply invested emotionally in Ukraine’s fight against the odds .

    The resilience of the people has been humbling and the President has been inspirational.

    I’ve been close to tears many times during the last week . This has really effected me.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The British Olympic Association demands the exclusion of Russia and Belarus from international sport.
    https://twitter.com/TeamGB/status/1498391493823840272
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    BigRich said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Chameleon said:

    Seeing the mythology of a nation form in real time is just crazy. It's not hard to see many things that will be touchstones of Ukrainian nationhood for at least a century to come unfold before our eyes: Zelenskyy, Snake Island, Ghost of Kyiv (the veracity of a myth rarely matters), hiding in the underground, babushka molotov making sessions etc. It's been said a lot recently, but this week has been one where a decade has happened, and you're probably looking back at 9/11 or the wall falling for a week that has changed so much so quickly.


    Ordinary Ukrainians, driving along, throwing molotov cocktails in broad daylight at Russian military vehicles. Unbelievable resistance.
    https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1498361635605561348
    There is Brave,
    Suicidality Brave
    and now a new level, Ukrainian Brave.
    Bloody dangerous too, judging by the flames that remained in the car after the molotov was thrown.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    How on earth is it that the smirking traitor is still not offering sanctuary to Ukranian refugees? "Up to 100,000" she says. If they have a family member here and have a g in their name and the border force guard is in the mood to not be a git.

    We should match the EU countries and offer people a 3 year leave to remain.

    After Germany and Poland, now France offers free train travel for Ukrainian refugees. https://twitter.com/jpfarandou/status/1498369246493085700
This discussion has been closed.