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Protests mount in Russia against Putin’s Ukraine invasion – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    One of the nicest things about being an EU citizen is that I can pick and choose my pleasant retirement idyll. So many fine properties on the market. Cheers Nige!
    Leon on the other hand can look forward to a dotage spent washing his smalls over a sink in the Isle of Wight.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    One of the nicest things about being an EU citizen is that I can pick and choose my pleasant retirement idyll. So many fine properties on the market. Cheers Nige!
    Leon on the other hand can look forward to a dotage spent washing his smalls over a sink in the Isle of Wight.
    You, on the other hand, are a Kiwi now living in NYC, so why on earth should we give a titre of monkey spunk what you think about Brexit?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
  • Yokes said:

    Its worth watching for signs of disruption within kiev tonight not just around it.

    I was wondering where our very own secret service agent had got to. Good evening James. You look ravishing.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    One of the nicest things about being an EU citizen is that I can pick and choose my pleasant retirement idyll. So many fine properties on the market. Cheers Nige!
    Leon on the other hand can look forward to a dotage spent washing his smalls over a sink in the Isle of Wight.
    You, on the other hand, are a Kiwi now living in NYC, so why on earth should we give a titre of monkey spunk what you think about Brexit?
    You seem suspiciously au fait with the metrics of monkey spunk.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    ·
    11m
    BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw

    I'm going to guess that somewhere right now an american GOPer is tweeting 'See, if everyone had a gun all the time everything would be fine!' then say something about their right to carry an assault rifle to kindergarten.
    I know there some really big James O'Brien fans on here so apologies for over exciting you.
    Steve Bannon thinks Ukraine is all about the toilets. Very sound on lavvies is Vlad.

    LBC
    @LBC
    James O'Brien: As a real war breaks out these vampires like Steve Bannon continue their culture war banging on about 'woke' gender-neutral toilets.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1496835440455950339?s=20&t=FzCRoi1jcEMxtBiPToaEyA
    Almost as ridiculous as banging on about Steve Bannon banging on about 'woke' gender neutral toilets. Or indeed banging on about James O'brien banging on about Steve Bannon banging on about 'woke' gender neutral toilets.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    The one about a German-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    The one about a German-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
    And Brexit altered that how?
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    ·
    11m
    BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw

    I'm going to guess that somewhere right now an american GOPer is tweeting 'See, if everyone had a gun all the time everything would be fine!' then say something about their right to carry an assault rifle to kindergarten.
    I know there some really big James O'Brien fans on here so apologies for over exciting you.
    Steve Bannon thinks Ukraine is all about the toilets. Very sound on lavvies is Vlad.

    LBC
    @LBC
    James O'Brien: As a real war breaks out these vampires like Steve Bannon continue their culture war banging on about 'woke' gender-neutral toilets.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1496835440455950339?s=20&t=FzCRoi1jcEMxtBiPToaEyA
    Almost as ridiculous as banging on about Steve Bannon banging on about 'woke' gender neutral toilets. Or indeed banging on about James O'brien banging on about Steve Bannon banging on about 'woke' gender neutral toilets.
    I think we can all agree that that's too much banging.
  • Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1496905869983768581

    Angle from above of the big crowd in St. Petersberg.

    Meanwhile in Moscow 'Glory to Ukraine' rings out among ukrainian flags.

    https://twitter.com/natiqmalikzada/status/1496926894993788945

    Would be deliciously ironic if Putin started his own Euromaiden by trying to reverse the results of thee last one.

    In great news, Ukraine have recaptured the airbase near Kyiv: https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1496949071810027532 but a massive airdrop is expected tonight, potentially including 20-50 tanks, but so far it seems like they're encountering much more resistance than expected.

    If those crowds keep growing he's in big trouble. They're already beginning to look like a size that's harder to control.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    My guess at the number of British citizens who retired to the EU under freedom of movement who took into account when making that choice their ability to vote in local elections: zero.

    Does anyone else remember the days when the Guardian tendency thought Brits retired to Spain were all worthless chavs who refused to learn Spanish and contributed nothing? How quickly and completely they became their heroes.
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    ·
    11m
    BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw

    I'm going to guess that somewhere right now an american GOPer is tweeting 'See, if everyone had a gun all the time everything would be fine!' then say something about their right to carry an assault rifle to kindergarten.
    I know there some really big James O'Brien fans on here so apologies for over exciting you.
    Steve Bannon thinks Ukraine is all about the toilets. Very sound on lavvies is Vlad.

    LBC
    @LBC
    James O'Brien: As a real war breaks out these vampires like Steve Bannon continue their culture war banging on about 'woke' gender-neutral toilets.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1496835440455950339?s=20&t=FzCRoi1jcEMxtBiPToaEyA
    Almost as ridiculous as banging on about Steve Bannon banging on about 'woke' gender neutral toilets. Or indeed banging on about James O'brien banging on about Steve Bannon banging on about 'woke' gender neutral toilets.
    I think we can all agree that that's too much banging.
    Especially for gender neutral toilets. They'll get a reputation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Toms said:

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
    At their best, they are the best. You do need to have a taste for hard liquor and pickles, to really get on with them, but if you can do that, you're all good. They are incredible generous, warm, rather funny, charmingly fatalistic, and devoid of a lot of western neuroses (tho they have their own)

    It is a shame they are so badly governed, all the time.

    I doubt 1 in 10 of them cares for this invasion of Ukraine. What does it gain them? Nothing
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    ·
    11m
    BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


    The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

    The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

    The cost of victory for Putin is going to keep rising but he's committed now. Difficult to see a way out for him.
    Yes, the one thing Putin CANNOT afford to do is lose. That ends his career and possibly his life. He has to "pacify" Ukraine and make sure there is a pro-Putin government in Kiev. But this might be impossibly expensive, in the medium term, in men and money, if the Ukrainians resist like the Iraqis or the Afghans

    And why should they not resist in this manner? They are being bombed in their own homes, just like the Afghans and Iraqis.

    At the same time the West will be briskly arming Ukrainian insurgents, this time knowing that these guys are DEFINITELY on our side

    It is a recipe for a hideous, intractable insurgency, which Russia will deeply regret
    It's not the decision of a particularly balanced mind, I don't think. He could have much more easily secured the eastern areas and even a land corridor all the way across the black sea coast to moldova. That's arguably they key strategic areas for Russia.
    Someone on Twitter said that, for Putin, it is a kind of Holy War. He's ex-KGB, he felt the humiliation of Glasnost and 1989 and the break-up of the Soviet Union on a deep, personal level. I believe he truly despises communism but he is also a Greater Russian Patriot. The grand Tsarist empire/nation was felled and dismembered, it is his personal mission to restore the pride - and provinces

    It is very similar to what the Chinese - especially Xi - feel about Hong Kong and Taiwan. The "century of humiliation" is a great wound which much be salved by Chinese military supremacy and restored territory.

    Trouble is for Putin he has few of the resources of Xi and in the Ukraine he has probably bitten off way more than he can chew. Because he is unbalanced. You could see it in that rant. And now in the French reports of his behaviour with Macron
    China at least has the motive of a century of genuine humiliation for its current abuses.

    Russia has been consistently the oppressor for centuries. Their breakup was the abused throwing off the abuser; it’s a deeply warped patriotism that wishes to reinstate the abuse.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
    At their best, they are the best. You do need to have a taste for hard liquor and pickles, to really get on with them, but if you can do that, you're all good. They are incredible generous, warm, rather funny, charmingly fatalistic, and devoid of a lot of western neuroses (tho they have their own)

    It is a shame they are so badly governed, all the time.

    I doubt 1 in 10 of them cares for this invasion of Ukraine. What does it gain them? Nothing
    I studied Russian for a year and found it a wonderful language, particularly on verb forms.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    The one about a German-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
    And Brexit altered that how?
    The rest of the world can see it too, now.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.
  • Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    The one about a German-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
    Imagine the brouhaha if a PBer had posted about an English-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    The one about a German-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
    Imagine the brouhaha if a PBer had posted about an English-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
    Isn’t that your whole shtick?

    By the way, that Scottish sub-sample you posted earlier had Lab/LD on 38% v SNP/Green on 42% which I thought was interesting.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    Virtue signalling. Though at least the SiS has been bang on with intelligence. When Putin was trying to convince us all that he was pulling back a few weeks ago it was UK and US intelligence that said he was doing the opposite, lots of European countries declared victory at that point until they were briefed by UK and US diplomats.
  • Two big explosions earlier at the airport I see. I assume the Ukrainians preventing any further use of it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    In the Blair Brown series, Alastair Campbell has a theory on demos. It’s something like if 10 people turn up, then 100 people thought about going. It was in the context of the Iraq demo (as in, if a million turned up a lot more thought about going).

    Good rule of thumb.

    Many years ago, when studying business, we were told to value customer complaints. They are like gold: essential intelligence. For every one customer who complains, there are about 50 who had the same problem but didn’t contact you.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    ·
    11m
    BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


    The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

    The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

    The cost of victory for Putin is going to keep rising but he's committed now. Difficult to see a way out for him.
    Yes, the one thing Putin CANNOT afford to do is lose. That ends his career and possibly his life. He has to "pacify" Ukraine and make sure there is a pro-Putin government in Kiev. But this might be impossibly expensive, in the medium term, in men and money, if the Ukrainians resist like the Iraqis or the Afghans

    And why should they not resist in this manner? They are being bombed in their own homes, just like the Afghans and Iraqis.

    At the same time the West will be briskly arming Ukrainian insurgents, this time knowing that these guys are DEFINITELY on our side

    It is a recipe for a hideous, intractable insurgency, which Russia will deeply regret
    It's not the decision of a particularly balanced mind, I don't think. He could have much more easily secured the eastern areas and even a land corridor all the way across the black sea coast to moldova. That's arguably they key strategic areas for Russia.
    Someone on Twitter said that, for Putin, it is a kind of Holy War. He's ex-KGB, he felt the humiliation of Glasnost and 1989 and the break-up of the Soviet Union on a deep, personal level. I believe he truly despises communism but he is also a Greater Russian Patriot. The grand Tsarist empire/nation was felled and dismembered, it is his personal mission to restore the pride - and provinces

    It is very similar to what the Chinese - especially Xi - feel about Hong Kong and Taiwan. The "century of humiliation" is a great wound which much be salved by Chinese military supremacy and restored territory.

    Trouble is for Putin he has few of the resources of Xi and in the Ukraine he has probably bitten off way more than he can chew. Because he is unbalanced. You could see it in that rant. And now in the French reports of his behaviour with Macron
    China at least has the motive of a century of genuine humiliation for its current abuses.

    Russia has been consistently the oppressor for centuries. Their breakup was the abused throwing off the abuser; it’s a deeply warped patriotism that wishes to reinstate the abuse.
    Yes, Putin's behaviour is more like a deranged British prime minister reinvading Ireland or trying to assert greater economic control over New Zealand or Jamaica

    Tho in Putin's "favour" it can be said that his revanchism sort of worked in the Caucasus. Georgia and Armenia have both been brought to heel, even as, interestingly, Azerbaijan breaks free (with Turkish help)

    But Ukraine feels completely different, it feels like a terrible and obvious error
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
    At their best, they are the best. You do need to have a taste for hard liquor and pickles, to really get on with them, but if you can do that, you're all good. They are incredible generous, warm, rather funny, charmingly fatalistic, and devoid of a lot of western neuroses (tho they have their own)

    It is a shame they are so badly governed, all the time.

    I doubt 1 in 10 of them cares for this invasion of Ukraine. What does it gain them? Nothing
    My neighbours are Russian. One is a well known concert pianist the other a lead violinist. They are a delight, but you have to get their humour. It is as dry as dust.
  • Suggestion:

    People will believe the government is taking action against oligarchs when Chelsea is under different ownership.

    Suggestion:

    The government will do anything it can NOT to restrict ownership of football clubs.
  • It is shocking.. but what a beautiful subway?

    Dan Rivers
    @danriversitv
    41m
    Kharkiv Subway tonight. Like something from the Blitz in London during WW2. Shocking. Where on earth will this all end?

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
    At their best, they are the best. You do need to have a taste for hard liquor and pickles, to really get on with them, but if you can do that, you're all good. They are incredible generous, warm, rather funny, charmingly fatalistic, and devoid of a lot of western neuroses (tho they have their own)

    It is a shame they are so badly governed, all the time.

    I doubt 1 in 10 of them cares for this invasion of Ukraine. What does it gain them? Nothing
    My neighbours are Russian. One is a well known concert pianist the other a lead violinist. They are a delight, but you have to get their humour. It is as dry as dust.
    You must need well developed muscles to play a lead violin.
  • BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.

    Chinese vaccines have very low efficacy.
  • kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
  • Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    The one about a German-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
    Imagine the brouhaha if a PBer had posted about an English-dominated bloc having pernicious geopolitical and economic effects?
    Isn’t that your whole shtick?

    By the way, that Scottish sub-sample you posted earlier had Lab/LD on 38% v SNP/Green on 42% which I thought was interesting.
    This one?

    England:

    Lab 46%
    Con 39%
    LD 9%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 2%

    Scotland:

    SNP 41%
    SLab 23%
    SCon 16%
    SLD 15%
    Ref 4%
    Grn 1%

    Wales:

    WLab 39%
    WCon 30%
    PC 20%
    WLD 8%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%

    (Political Polling and the Russia-Ukraine Crisis by Survation; 17-21 February; 2,050)

    Before you get too excited, only YouGov correctly weigh geographical subsamples. Their last poll had Lab/LD on 29% v SNP/Green on 48%.

    The proper, full-sample Scottish polls have SLab flatlining at approx 19% and SLDs approx 6ish.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.

    I don't know about there heath case being overwhelmed, but I would also disregard there 'official' covid numbers, Hong Kong is china now and everything they say is propaganda.
  • About 75m east of Odessa..

    @visegrad24
    Initial reports are coming in of a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson.

    To be confirmed.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1496963412701634561
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited February 2022

    BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.

    It's because they have a mad policy of admitting to hospital EVERYONE thar tests positive for Covid. So they get huge backlogs and gurneys in car parks. And due to stifling Chinese protocol no one can admit this is a ridiculous error, so really bad cases are going untreated in the chaos

    Could be solved in a minute if they just said "the former policy was bollocks, stop"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    I'm against it, except when people project election results onto buildings.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,915
    edited February 2022

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    Vauxhall is MI6SIS, no?
  • Talking of polls, a new one:

    Kantar Public, 17-21 Feb; 1,090

    Lab 39%
    Con 34%
    LD 12%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 2%

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited February 2022

    It is shocking.. but what a beautiful subway?

    Dan Rivers
    @danriversitv
    41m
    Kharkiv Subway tonight. Like something from the Blitz in London during WW2. Shocking. Where on earth will this all end?

    This is a sombre moment that should not be trivialised but I too shall do so anyway as it's how I roll - architecturally it seems quite exciting. Good light fixtures too. I can see why the makers of the Metro series are Ukrainian.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

    The Spectator Index
    @spectatorindex
    ·
    11m
    BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw

    I'm going to guess that somewhere right now an american GOPer is tweeting 'See, if everyone had a gun all the time everything would be fine!' then say something about their right to carry an assault rifle to kindergarten.
    I know there some really big James O'Brien fans on here so apologies for over exciting you.
    Steve Bannon thinks Ukraine is all about the toilets. Very sound on lavvies is Vlad.

    LBC
    @LBC
    James O'Brien: As a real war breaks out these vampires like Steve Bannon continue their culture war banging on about 'woke' gender-neutral toilets.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1496835440455950339?s=20&t=FzCRoi1jcEMxtBiPToaEyA
    Almost as ridiculous as banging on about Steve Bannon banging on about 'woke' gender neutral toilets. Or indeed banging on about James O'brien banging on about Steve Bannon banging on about 'woke' gender neutral toilets.
    I think we can all agree that that's too much banging.
    Time for a bit of tribbing then.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
    At their best, they are the best. You do need to have a taste for hard liquor and pickles, to really get on with them, but if you can do that, you're all good. They are incredible generous, warm, rather funny, charmingly fatalistic, and devoid of a lot of western neuroses (tho they have their own)

    It is a shame they are so badly governed, all the time.

    I doubt 1 in 10 of them cares for this invasion of Ukraine. What does it gain them? Nothing
    I have a Russian friend of whom I am very fond. It took me about 5 years of working with her to get to know her well, and even now I find new things about her family accidentally. Keeping quiet about family and politics is deeply ingrained, after all breaking that habit is one of the reasons her family wound up in Siberia.

    Russians can be rather stony faced, but that is part of the culture. Smiling at people that you don't know is seen as very superficial and false.

    Fiercely loyal and tackles work like Zhukov driving on Berlin, and a great colleague. I was proud to be a referee for her British passport

    This is what she Whatsapped me early this morning:

    "It is, very sad. Disappointing...not sure what happens now. Dictatorship always ends the same way. The question is when. Hope Ukraine will stay free"
  • Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    "Brexit educates the senses, calls into action the will, perfects the physical constitution and brings men into such swift and close collision, in critical moments, that Leaver measures Remainer."
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.

    They've gone from seeing an average of 15 Covid patients a day over the last 2 years to over a thousand a day since the start of the year.

    One of the draw backs of a zero Covid strategy is your hospital system won't be setup to deal with a large number of Covid patients.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.

    It's because they have a mad policy of admitting to hospital EVERYONE thar tests positive for Covid. So they get huge backlogs and gurneys in car parks. And due to stifling Chinese protocol no one can admit this is a ridiculous error, so really bad cases are going untreated in the chaos

    Could be solved in a minute if they just said "the former policy was bollocks, stop"
    Is that actually true? Almost (but not quite) as stark raving bonkers as Jacinda’s 24 days in the cooler for being a close contact of a covidian, ten days for being an actual covidian.
  • kle4 said:

    It is shocking.. but what a beautiful subway?

    Dan Rivers
    @danriversitv
    41m
    Kharkiv Subway tonight. Like something from the Blitz in London during WW2. Shocking. Where on earth will this all end?

    This is a sombre moment that should not be trivialised but I too shall do so anyway as it's how I roll - architecturally it seems quite exciting. Good light fixtures too. I can see why the makers of the Metro series are Ukrainian.
    Soviet metros are generally pretty cool. As well as outrageous architecture, Kyiv Metro has the deepest tube station in the world, at Arsenalna. It's probably a bit full at the moment.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
    Enjoy queuing with the Russians in the immigration slow lane on your next European holiday.
  • I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    Vauxhall is MI6SIS, no?
    Vauxhall Cross is 6. 5 are at Thames House, away from the river.
  • Talking of polls, a new one:

    Kantar Public, 17-21 Feb; 1,090

    Lab 39%
    Con 34%
    LD 12%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 2%

    Which was the other poll upthread?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.

    It's because they have a mad policy of admitting to hospital EVERYONE thar tests positive for Covid. So they get huge backlogs and gurneys in car parks. And due to stifling Chinese protocol no one can admit this is a ridiculous error, so really bad cases are going untreated in the chaos

    Could be solved in a minute if they just said "the former policy was bollocks, stop"
    For instance you might have a policy that worked when no-one was getting Covid but obviously banananananas when loads of peope have Covid.
  • I've just realised that I'm feeling the same anxious fury that I haven't felt since 9/11.

    I think Putin has just overtaken Bin Laden as the 21st Century's No1 villain.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Sean_F said:

    It takes a lot of guts to demonstrate against Putin. They are very brave men and women.

    It's hopelessly naive to think that this is 1990 redux. But that rally in Bucharest just before Christmas (you know, the one where Ceaușescu got jeered for the first time, maybe ever, and suddenly turned into a confused old man) is one of the defining images of my lifetime.

    I'd blooming love it to happen again.
    It was especially real for me, as I’d stood in that square in communist Romania a few years prior. That remains the most depressing country I have ever visited.

    Meanwhile, on guns, R4 interviewed a Ukrainian MP this afternoon, who mentioned in passing that he’d just been issued with his gun. To the interviewer’s surprise it transpired the MP was in the street carrying his newly acquired AK47.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    kle4 said:

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    I'm against it, except when people project election results onto buildings.
    It all started with Gail Porter.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/341052.stm
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.

    It's because they have a mad policy of admitting to hospital EVERYONE thar tests positive for Covid. So they get huge backlogs and gurneys in car parks. And due to stifling Chinese protocol no one can admit this is a ridiculous error, so really bad cases are going untreated in the chaos

    Could be solved in a minute if they just said "the former policy was bollocks, stop"
    Is that actually true? Almost (but not quite) as stark raving bonkers as Jacinda’s 24 days in the cooler for being a close contact of a covidian, ten days for being an actual covidian.
    Yes, its true

    "The HK government reported more than 8,000 new cases on February 23rd—compared with 100 a month ago. The chaos on the wards has, in part, been caused by the insistence that anyone contracting the disease, even with no symptoms, must be placed in hospital or a government isolation centre."


    https://www.economist.com/china/2022/02/25/hong-kongs-refusal-to-live-with-covid-19-is-causing-chaos
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    edited February 2022

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
    Enjoy queuing with the Russians in the immigration slow lane on your next European holiday.
    Ah, the dirty non-EU foreigners, not the clean EU foreigners. Barely human, right?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Putin and Macron just spoke. Sounds like it got heated.

    They had a "serious and frank exchange of views about the Ukraine situation," the Kremlin says. "Vladimir Putin gave extensive explanations of why a decision was taken to launch a special military operation."


    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1496947771546521604

    "Vlad, you have made me look a twat. I have elections coming up. Unlike you, I can't rig them...."

    "So sue me...."
  • Talking of polls, a new one:

    Kantar Public, 17-21 Feb; 1,090

    Lab 39%
    Con 34%
    LD 12%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 2%

    Dire Liberal Democrat retention rates. Again.

    VI next time, by 2019 GE vote

    2019 Con voters:

    Con 79%
    Lab 9%
    LD 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    UKIP 1%

    2019 Lab voters:

    Lab 87%
    LD 7%
    Con 2%
    Grn 1%

    2019 LD voters:

    LD 48%
    Lab 32%
    Grn 12%
    Con 8%
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    kle4 said:

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    I'm against it, except when people project election results onto buildings.
    It all started with Gail Porter.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/341052.stm
    I'm afraid to say that in my early knapping days I was part of the team that planned that stunt
  • I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    And this is why Putin knows he can get away with this...I invade country, the west in response, lights up a building with the colours of the flag and changes their twitter headers...
  • kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
    At their best, they are the best. You do need to have a taste for hard liquor and pickles, to really get on with them, but if you can do that, you're all good. They are incredible generous, warm, rather funny, charmingly fatalistic, and devoid of a lot of western neuroses (tho they have their own)

    It is a shame they are so badly governed, all the time.

    I doubt 1 in 10 of them cares for this invasion of Ukraine. What does it gain them? Nothing
    My neighbours are Russian. One is a well known concert pianist the other a lead violinist. They are a delight, but you have to get their humour. It is as dry as dust.
    You must need well developed muscles to play a lead violin.
    It's called the Kholodnaya Grip apparently.


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    BTW does anyone know why Hong Kong's health system is reportedly being overwhelmed with covid ?

    Omicron and a year of vaccination shouldn't give too many patients and they're not even getting many infections compared to what other countries have had.

    It's because they have a mad policy of admitting to hospital EVERYONE thar tests positive for Covid. So they get huge backlogs and gurneys in car parks. And due to stifling Chinese protocol no one can admit this is a ridiculous error, so really bad cases are going untreated in the chaos

    Could be solved in a minute if they just said "the former policy was bollocks, stop"
    For instance you might have a policy that worked when no-one was getting Covid but obviously banananananas when loads of peope have Covid.
    Loads of those cases will be mild/very mild/asymptomatic - so what is the thinking insisting they attend hospital? Batshit crazy.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited February 2022

    Talking of polls, a new one:

    Kantar Public, 17-21 Feb; 1,090

    Lab 39%
    Con 34%
    LD 12%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 2%

    Which was the other poll upthread?
    I gave the info in my post: Political Polling and the Russia-Ukraine Crisis by Survation; 17-21 February; 2,050

    I’ll even give you a link, in case Google fails you:

    https://www.survation.com/amid-high-level-of-concern-cross-party-support-for-strong-action-on-ukraine/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    I'm against it, except when people project election results onto buildings.
    It all started with Gail Porter.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/341052.stm
    I'm afraid to say that in my early knapping days I was part of the team that planned that stunt
    Loaded or FHM as I recall?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    In the days before it was acknowledged (1986/87?) there was a huge white arrow running along the walls of Gower Street pointing at number 140 with "This is MI5" written in big letters.
    Never gave me much confidence in their abilities when they couldn't stop simple graffiti.
    Nor cover it up quickly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    I'm against it, except when people project election results onto buildings.
    It all started with Gail Porter.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/341052.stm
    I'm afraid to say that in my early knapping days I was part of the team that planned that stunt
    Loaded or FHM as I recall?
    FHM. A magazine which, at its peak, sold A MILLION COPIES a month

    Easy to forget how incredibly successful they were. And what fun to work for. Even as a humble carver of stone
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    About 75m east of Odessa..

    @visegrad24
    Initial reports are coming in of a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson.

    To be confirmed.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1496963412701634561

    Yes, it does seem that the Russians have secured the crimean water supply from the Dnieper, but the Ukranians have retaken a bridge:

    https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1496967261864828935?t=zpANBeAN218Uleq-wqDZVg&s=19
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Betting post: Are the GOP really going to nominate a Putinite, let alone the Americans (re)elect him? I suspect Trump is a lay now.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
    Really? I have personally been impacted by several. Various ECJ pension rulings which previously protected UK citizens and for which UK citizens now have no appeal process (not me personally, but campaign I am involved in), travel to EU countries limitations which has really badly impacted several friends of mine. For a short while we were impacted by the COVID travel restrictions re free travel between EU countries using an EU COVID pass, taking pets abroad, carnets, etc. The list goes on.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    I'm against it, except when people project election results onto buildings.
    It all started with Gail Porter.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/341052.stm
    I'm afraid to say that in my early knapping days I was part of the team that planned that stunt
    Loaded or FHM as I recall?
    FHM. A magazine which, at its peak, sold A MILLION COPIES a month

    Easy to forget how incredibly successful they were. And what fun to work for. Even as a humble carver of stone
    Both the stunt and that BBC article...imagine what you'd get if either of those happened today.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    It is shocking.. but what a beautiful subway?

    Dan Rivers
    @danriversitv
    41m
    Kharkiv Subway tonight. Like something from the Blitz in London during WW2. Shocking. Where on earth will this all end?

    This is a sombre moment that should not be trivialised but I too shall do so anyway as it's how I roll - architecturally it seems quite exciting. Good light fixtures too. I can see why the makers of the Metro series are Ukrainian.
    Soviet metros are generally pretty cool. As well as outrageous architecture, Kyiv Metro has the deepest tube station in the world, at Arsenalna. It's probably a bit full at the moment.
    I see what you mean - even the simple ones are pretty striking

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    I've just realised that I'm feeling the same anxious fury that I haven't felt since 9/11.

    I think Putin has just overtaken Bin Laden as the 21st Century's No1 villain.

    I don't feel as anxious but if anything I feel rather more disgusted. It may be the fact that this is a known enemy whereas that just felt so weird. I fear the worst but hope for the best. Putin could well have bitten off more than he can chew in the long run but even if that's true it's hardly much consolation for the horror and destruction to be unleashed on millions of people who have done nothing to deserve it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    About 75m east of Odessa..

    @visegrad24
    Initial reports are coming in of a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson.

    To be confirmed.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1496963412701634561

    Yes, it does seem that the Russians have secured the crimean water supply from the Dnieper, but the Ukranians have retaken a bridge:

    https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1496967261864828935?t=zpANBeAN218Uleq-wqDZVg&s=19
    I really really really hope that US/UK and other willing NATO partners with effective special forces are busily supplying Ukrainian army/insurgents with everything they need to get Putin bogged down in a terrible and unwinnable war.

    This is a rare clear case of a good guy and a bad guy. Let us help the good guys and thereby fuck the bad guy
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    Talking of polls, a new one:

    Kantar Public, 17-21 Feb; 1,090

    Lab 39%
    Con 34%
    LD 12%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 2%

    Dire Liberal Democrat retention rates. Again.

    VI next time, by 2019 GE vote

    2019 Con voters:

    Con 79%
    Lab 9%
    LD 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    UKIP 1%

    2019 Lab voters:

    Lab 87%
    LD 7%
    Con 2%
    Grn 1%

    2019 LD voters:

    LD 48%
    Lab 32%
    Grn 12%
    Con 8%
    That 2% of Labour voters gone Tory. The BJO/Jezziah tendency.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    I'm against it, except when people project election results onto buildings.
    It all started with Gail Porter.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/341052.stm
    I'm afraid to say that in my early knapping days I was part of the team that planned that stunt
    You’re not afraid to say, you’re proud... And you should be. Massive impact.
  • carnforth said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
    Enjoy queuing with the Russians in the immigration slow lane on your next European holiday.
    Ah, the dirty non-EU foreigners, not the clean EU foreigners. Barely human, right?
    Had to do that on the way into Romania - when we were still in the EU. Anyone with a slightly darker skin than mine got the third degree.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Interesting interview with Kisin (who is Russian and married to a Ukrainian).

    https://youtu.be/PN5Zmq9YTUs
  • dixiedean said:

    Talking of polls, a new one:

    Kantar Public, 17-21 Feb; 1,090

    Lab 39%
    Con 34%
    LD 12%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 2%

    Dire Liberal Democrat retention rates. Again.

    VI next time, by 2019 GE vote

    2019 Con voters:

    Con 79%
    Lab 9%
    LD 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    UKIP 1%

    2019 Lab voters:

    Lab 87%
    LD 7%
    Con 2%
    Grn 1%

    2019 LD voters:

    LD 48%
    Lab 32%
    Grn 12%
    Con 8%
    That 2% of Labour voters gone Tory. The BJO/Jezziah tendency.
    Jezziah popped up a couple of weeks ago, to tell us he’ll be voting Conservative 😄

    … before he got promptly banned, for blatant defamation.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    A retired neurologist told me that he thinks Putin has Parkinson's. Quite advance and he is taking *all* the drugs to suppress symptoms.

    Oh dear, the similarities keep piling up.

    It would certainly explain why he had to go *now* rather than wait until Nord Stream 2 was up and running, say.
  • Talking of polls, a new one:

    Kantar Public, 17-21 Feb; 1,090

    Lab 39%
    Con 34%
    LD 12%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 2%

    Which was the other poll upthread?
    I gave the info in my post: Political Polling and the Russia-Ukraine Crisis by Survation; 17-21 February; 2,050

    I’ll even give you a link, in case Google fails you:

    https://www.survation.com/amid-high-level-of-concern-cross-party-support-for-strong-action-on-ukraine/
    Ah, yes. I see it now!

    Anyhoo, two months and 18 days since last Tory poll lead in GB.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    About 75m east of Odessa..

    @visegrad24
    Initial reports are coming in of a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson.

    To be confirmed.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1496963412701634561

    Yes, it does seem that the Russians have secured the crimean water supply from the Dnieper, but the Ukranians have retaken a bridge:

    https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1496967261864828935?t=zpANBeAN218Uleq-wqDZVg&s=19
    I really really really hope that US/UK and other willing NATO partners with effective special forces are busily supplying Ukrainian army/insurgents with everything they need to get Putin bogged down in a terrible and unwinnable war.

    This is a rare clear case of a good guy and a bad guy. Let us help the good guys and thereby fuck the bad guy
    Surely whatever results in less death and suffering is the best outcome?
  • kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
    Enjoy queuing with the Russians in the immigration slow lane on your next European holiday.
    I both travel and work in the EU and the EEA regularly. It has caused me not one moment of hassle. It is no practical difference to me at all given we weren't in Schengen even when we were in the EU. You see some of us actually do go to Europe for reasons other than a holiday once a year.
  • A retired neurologist told me that he thinks Putin has Parkinson's. Quite advance and he is taking *all* the drugs to suppress symptoms.

    Oh dear, the similarities keep piling up.

    It would certainly explain why he had to go *now* rather than wait until Nord Stream 2 was up and running, say.

    Don’t you just love “nuclear deterrence”.

    Only problem is, it only works if all the people with their fingers on the buttons are sane. In perpetuity.

    Hope everyone still has Anderson shelters in their kaleyards.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Javelins getting a good workout, a Ukrainian military official told me just now.…
    … "In 2014, we defended ourselves with RPGs and it was difficult to destroy T-72 [tanks]. Now it's not a problem."

    https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1496960542048759821
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
    At their best, they are the best. You do need to have a taste for hard liquor and pickles, to really get on with them, but if you can do that, you're all good. They are incredible generous, warm, rather funny, charmingly fatalistic, and devoid of a lot of western neuroses (tho they have their own)

    It is a shame they are so badly governed, all the time.

    I doubt 1 in 10 of them cares for this invasion of Ukraine. What does it gain them? Nothing
    My neighbours are Russian. One is a well known concert pianist the other a lead violinist. They are a delight, but you have to get their humour. It is as dry as dust.
    You must need well developed muscles to play a lead violin.
    It's called the Kholodnaya Grip apparently.


    Naughty
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I see that MI5’s Vauxhall building has lit itself up in the Ukrainian colours.

    Is there a word for these performative light-shows? They seem to have become endemic; it’s the architectural equivalent of a twitter hashtag.

    I'm against it, except when people project election results onto buildings.
    It all started with Gail Porter.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/341052.stm
    I'm afraid to say that in my early knapping days I was part of the team that planned that stunt
    You’re not afraid to say, you’re proud... And you should be. Massive impact.
    Thanks man

    I remember one of the editorial meetings around that glorious time. When anything seemed possible

    We had a plan (devised by me) to simultaneously send a lovely, mammacious, topless, extrovert girl onto every significant pro football pitch everywhere in England on Saturday at 3.15pm with the words READ FHM stencilled on her bouncing young tits

    I can't believe this was eventually knocked back as "impractical". It did reach the level of executive editor who finally and reluctantly nixed it. Close, but no Havana
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    A retired neurologist told me that he thinks Putin has Parkinson's. Quite advance and he is taking *all* the drugs to suppress symptoms.

    Oh dear, the similarities keep piling up.

    It would certainly explain why he had to go *now* rather than wait until Nord Stream 2 was up and running, say.

    That's interesting because someone with a medical background just told me they thought he might have early dementia.
  • IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    @MsJulieLenarz
    Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

    Their bravery is humbling.

    https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

    It's extremely impressive.
    As a peasant myself, I've always liked the Russian people. And had a drink with one or two.
    At their best, they are the best. You do need to have a taste for hard liquor and pickles, to really get on with them, but if you can do that, you're all good. They are incredible generous, warm, rather funny, charmingly fatalistic, and devoid of a lot of western neuroses (tho they have their own)

    It is a shame they are so badly governed, all the time.

    I doubt 1 in 10 of them cares for this invasion of Ukraine. What does it gain them? Nothing
    My neighbours are Russian. One is a well known concert pianist the other a lead violinist. They are a delight, but you have to get their humour. It is as dry as dust.
    You must need well developed muscles to play a lead violin.
    It's called the Kholodnaya Grip apparently.


    Naughty
    My lawyers told me to do an *innocent face* but that's just the way I roll.
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    About 75m east of Odessa..

    @visegrad24
    Initial reports are coming in of a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson.

    To be confirmed.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1496963412701634561

    Yes, it does seem that the Russians have secured the crimean water supply from the Dnieper, but the Ukranians have retaken a bridge:

    https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1496967261864828935?t=zpANBeAN218Uleq-wqDZVg&s=19
    I really really really hope that US/UK and other willing NATO partners with effective special forces are busily supplying Ukrainian army/insurgents with everything they need to get Putin bogged down in a terrible and unwinnable war.

    This is a rare clear case of a good guy and a bad guy. Let us help the good guys and thereby fuck the bad guy
    If the tanks go into Kyiv they are going to get Molotovs on their heads. And grannies taking one with them. Unfortunately, the best bet for the Ukrainians is to send as many Russian boys home in zinc-lined coffins as they can. Good news they have retaken that airfield though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    carnforth said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
    Enjoy queuing with the Russians in the immigration slow lane on your next European holiday.
    Ah, the dirty non-EU foreigners, not the clean EU foreigners. Barely human, right?
    Had to do that on the way into Romania - when we were still in the EU. Anyone with a slightly darker skin than mine got the third degree.
    Bulgaria is very, very uninviting for some people. Apparently being Saudi is a near crime, from the behaviour of their border guards.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
    Enjoy queuing with the Russians in the immigration slow lane on your next European holiday.
    I both travel and work in the EU and the EEA regularly. It has caused me not one moment of hassle. It is no practical difference to me at all given we weren't in Schengen even when we were in the EU. You see some of us actually do go to Europe for reasons other than a holiday once a year.
    Yes, that’s fair and true, and I write that as a strident remainer. Travelling in Europe hasn’t been problematic, and I assumed it would be.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586

    carnforth said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
    Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

    I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.
    What a surprise.
    Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?
    Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free
    Free of what? Mythical straight bananas? Yet look at the freedoms we have lost.
    I have not lost a single freedom.
    Enjoy queuing with the Russians in the immigration slow lane on your next European holiday.
    Ah, the dirty non-EU foreigners, not the clean EU foreigners. Barely human, right?
    Had to do that on the way into Romania - when we were still in the EU. Anyone with a slightly darker skin than mine got the third degree.
    There are definitely risk tiers, as I suspect there have always been. I have travelled to Schengen post-brexit and been waved through whilst friends on other non-EU passports were asked to show onward travel plans and proof of accomodation. The FBPErs schtick about “treated like eritreans” or whatever it is, could not be more wrong.

    In fact, due perhaps to covid, the only long queues I have experienced have been at Heathrow. Why are half the electronic gates always closed? Are they broken, or are they not really automatic? Is a human pressing a button?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    dixiedean said:

    Talking of polls, a new one:

    Kantar Public, 17-21 Feb; 1,090

    Lab 39%
    Con 34%
    LD 12%
    Grn 6%
    Ref 2%

    Dire Liberal Democrat retention rates. Again.

    VI next time, by 2019 GE vote

    2019 Con voters:

    Con 79%
    Lab 9%
    LD 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 3%
    UKIP 1%

    2019 Lab voters:

    Lab 87%
    LD 7%
    Con 2%
    Grn 1%

    2019 LD voters:

    LD 48%
    Lab 32%
    Grn 12%
    Con 8%
    That 2% of Labour voters gone Tory. The BJO/Jezziah tendency.
    Jezziah popped up a couple of weeks ago, to tell us he’ll be voting Conservative 😄

    … before he got promptly banned, for blatant defamation.
    On a more serious point. No sign there of the oft-quoted theory that the Greens are polling better cos of feckless snowflakey young Corbynites.
    Seems to be largely LD's. And Tories...
  • kle4 said:

    It is shocking.. but what a beautiful subway?

    Dan Rivers
    @danriversitv
    41m
    Kharkiv Subway tonight. Like something from the Blitz in London during WW2. Shocking. Where on earth will this all end?

    This is a sombre moment that should not be trivialised but I too shall do so anyway as it's how I roll - architecturally it seems quite exciting. Good light fixtures too. I can see why the makers of the Metro series are Ukrainian.
    If you ever get the chance to travel to Baku, their underground is a sight to behold.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    About 75m east of Odessa..

    @visegrad24
    Initial reports are coming in of a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson.

    To be confirmed.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1496963412701634561

    Yes, it does seem that the Russians have secured the crimean water supply from the Dnieper, but the Ukranians have retaken a bridge:

    https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1496967261864828935?t=zpANBeAN218Uleq-wqDZVg&s=19
    I really really really hope that US/UK and other willing NATO partners with effective special forces are busily supplying Ukrainian army/insurgents with everything they need to get Putin bogged down in a terrible and unwinnable war.

    This is a rare clear case of a good guy and a bad guy. Let us help the good guys and thereby fuck the bad guy
    Surely whatever results in less death and suffering is the best outcome?
    Well yes, but what is that?

    Arguably, Hitler defeating all of Europe including Britain and ruling Eurasia by 1942 would have resulted in "less death"

    Is that better than what happened in the end? No.
  • Interesting….

    US sanctions announced today will shut Russia's two biggest banks out of international dollar clearing. I remind you that all dollar transactions, anywhere in the world, except those in physical cash go through the NY Fed. content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USTRE…

    For the benefit of those banging on about SWIFT - this is a far more draconian sanction than shutting these banks out of SWIFT would have been.


    https://twitter.com/frances_coppola/status/1496940411637706754?s=21
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited February 2022
    In his current apparent state of mind and health, it must surely be a good thing that Macron seems to have a decent line of communication with him. Biden, Johnson, Scholz and others have had very little spoken contact with him recently, as he sits in his bunker.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Andy_JS said:

    A retired neurologist told me that he thinks Putin has Parkinson's. Quite advance and he is taking *all* the drugs to suppress symptoms.

    Oh dear, the similarities keep piling up.

    It would certainly explain why he had to go *now* rather than wait until Nord Stream 2 was up and running, say.

    That's interesting because someone with a medical background just told me they thought he might have early dementia.
    Is that confirmation, or a different diagnosis? @PBDoctors?
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    About 75m east of Odessa..

    @visegrad24
    Initial reports are coming in of a Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson.

    To be confirmed.
    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1496963412701634561

    Yes, it does seem that the Russians have secured the crimean water supply from the Dnieper, but the Ukranians have retaken a bridge:

    https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1496967261864828935?t=zpANBeAN218Uleq-wqDZVg&s=19
    I really really really hope that US/UK and other willing NATO partners with effective special forces are busily supplying Ukrainian army/insurgents with everything they need to get Putin bogged down in a terrible and unwinnable war.

    This is a rare clear case of a good guy and a bad guy. Let us help the good guys and thereby fuck the bad guy
    If the tanks go into Kyiv they are going to get Molotovs on their heads. And grannies taking one with them. Unfortunately, the best bet for the Ukrainians is to send as many Russian boys home in zinc-lined coffins as they can. Good news they have retaken that airfield though.
    I know we are not supposed to say this but I do genuinely feel sorry for the Russian grunt soldiers. Particularly if that anecdote earlier today about the platoon being captured because they didn't realise they were actually supposed to shoot Ukrainians was true. I can quite imagine they had been told by their commanders that they were liberating their fellow countrymen and would be welcomed with open arms. I assume that by now they have been thoroughly disabused of that particular notion.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    I was thinking the same just before Steve Rosenberg on BBC1 wonders whether Putin has made a fatal error.
    The Russian people are not up for this "war".
  • I've just realised that I'm feeling the same anxious fury that I haven't felt since 9/11.

    I think Putin has just overtaken Bin Laden as the 21st Century's No1 villain.

    It's exactly how I feel.

    I've surprised myself today with how angry I am about it.
This discussion has been closed.