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Protests mount in Russia against Putin’s Ukraine invasion – politicalbetting.com

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  • Watching RT propaganda is fascinating.

    Salmond on again?

    Or is it Vince Cable tonight?
  • An unusually good laying-out of the current possibilities, by Daily Mail standards, can be read here :

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10549297/From-swift-resolution-apocalypse-MARK-ALMOND-examines-happen-next.html
  • Watching RT propaganda is fascinating.

    Salmond on again?

    Or is it Vince Cable tonight?
    Some American apologist talking heads.
  • Has Starmer made a mistake by allowing the Stop The West Winning MPs to simply backtrack and withdraw their names from a letter?

    A more ruthless leader (Kinnock?) may have just thrown them straight out.

    Ruthless Kinnock lost, twice.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    HYUFD said:

    David Lammy says he is 'quite sure' a future Labour government will spend more on defence on QT

    He has no choice, it’s Cold War 2 lammy
  • I'm pretty sure PM Starmer would have gone much harder against Tory donor oligarchs, but would there have been many of those left with a PM Starmer?

    Would PM Starmer have been sending anti-tank weapons to Kyiv a month ago?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited February 2022

    Clear tonight that US and UK have led the (largely failed) attempt to go for the harshest measures against Russia but the EU rejected SWIFT proposal — contrary to uninformed twitter commentary from blue tick FBPE throughout the week. Something to remember.

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1496990202660855815

    Would it be diplomatically inappropriate for Johnson to point this out at PMQs next week?
  • Labour gain from Ind in Ferryhill, Durham
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Has Starmer made a mistake by allowing the Stop The West Winning MPs to simply backtrack and withdraw their names from a letter?

    A more ruthless leader (Kinnock?) may have just thrown them straight out.

    It is consistent with his tactic not to actually confront the hard left, and thus create a war with them. Instead they are just gradually marginalised.
  • HYUFD said:

    David Lammy says he is 'quite sure' a future Labour government will spend more on defence on QT

    He has no choice, it’s Cold War 2 lammy
    Yep. Not sure the public have woken up to the massive long term commitment this will require unless we get lucky and Putin, clearly now mad or ill or both, is deposed by saner forces from within.
  • Ferryhill

    LAB: 41.3% (+6.4)
    IND (Newby): 24.9% (+24.9)
    CON: 16.4% (-11.9)
    IND (Makepeace): 7.8% (+7.8)
    GRN: 7.8% (+7.8)
    FA: 1.3% (+1.3)
    LDEM: 0.4% (+0.4)

    Labour GAIN from Independent.

    Votes cast: 2,120

    No other Ind (-36.8) as prev.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find the idea you need to be a shit to succeed in politics depressing, but also wrong.

    In the UK, only Boris is a fully-fledged shit.
    Cameron, Blair, and Wilson were borderline, and for different reasons, Brown. Mostly, British PMs are non-shits. At least in the post-war period.

    The US might be less lucky. Obviously Trump, and probably Clinton. But Biden no, nor Obama, nor the Bushes, nor Reagan, Carter or even Ford. Before that, though, a string of shits: Nixon, LBJ, JFK.

    France seems to prefer shits.
    Macron is a shit. Sarkozy, Chirac, Mitterrand, d’Estaing - all shits. Hollande not. I don’t have a view on Pompidou, and I am torn about De Gaulle.

    Hollande may not have been a shit. But he was also... well... shit.
    Indeed, he also cheated on his wife too so was not exactly a saint either.

    He was the worst French President of my lifetime. Chirac was quite effective in many ways, as was Mitterand, I would not say either were shits exactly though no saints either
    What's the definition of one?
  • Starmer hasn't put a foot wrong today. He's definitely gone up in my estimation.

    One thing that rarely gets mentioned is how Opposition leaders always need time to grow into the role.

  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Clear tonight that US and UK have led the (largely failed) attempt to go for the harshest measures against Russia but the EU rejected SWIFT proposal — contrary to uninformed twitter commentary from blue tick FBPE throughout the week. Something to remember.

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1496990202660855815

    That is not at all clear, although possible. America is happy for Italy and Germany to take the heat (literally!) while defending one of America's foremost strategic assets, the global system of dollar-denominated trade, which indirectly funds deficit spending on US "defense systems". I would say it is a tendentious take, at a time when everyone in the West should have kept quiet instead of feuding and unite for at least a few hours if not a few days.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    A retired neurologist told me that he thinks Putin has Parkinson's. Quite advance and he is taking *all* the drugs to suppress symptoms.

    Oh dear, the similarities keep piling up.

    It would certainly explain why he had to go *now* rather than wait until Nord Stream 2 was up and running, say.

    No serious doctor would carry out the diagnosis of a medical condition by news media.

    Some mushwit with the intellectual capacity of a Daily Mail journalist, maybe.

    But not a scientist who wished to be taken even half-way seriously.
    Our own Foxy has given such opinions before.
    See the case of Professor David Southall on wiki.

    "In 2004, following more complaints from the MAMA campaign and Mr Clark, Professor Southall was found guilty of serious professional misconduct by the General Medical Council (GMC), after alleging to a police child protection officer that the husband of Sally Clark, a mother convicted of murdering two of her babies, was himself almost certainly responsible for murdering the couple's children. Professor Southall made the claim in confidence to a child protection officer of the Staffordshire police after watching a television documentary about the case as he was concerned about the safety of the surviving child"

    It is not very sensible to look at a TV program, and conclude a diagnosis.
    it’s not a diagnosis, rather a tentative but not in reasonable speculation about the possibility that Putin is ill.
    A solemn chap on the BBC would give his view as the cameras paned along the collection on top of the Kremlin.
    They were on top of Lenin’s tomb, which always was an unfortunate location…
    They were on top of Lenin’s tomb,
    which was an unfortunate location
    For all of a sudden war broke out
    And they decided to change vocation

    Was Russian government in old days thieving McMafia gangsters like today, or just the boring and pervy mandarins they appear to be
    The modern system of gangsterism in Russia had deep roots.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_in_law - at the end of Soviet times to get things done required working "on the left". Which meant working with the mafia. The military would even do this, to get building materials for projects for example. Yes, the parallel with Trump and contraction in New York in the 80s is amusing.

    So when things changed, they were perfectly positioned to take a chunk of everything... and the most enterprising member of the security services integrated with them to form the Mafia State we see today.
    Thanks for that, it is very interesting. Bitch Wars leapt out at me read through later 👍🏻

    So that’s how a poverty stricken street thug and gangster, and KGB evil desk clerk got to know each other, become friends and make plans?

    However it seems to me we should be very sorry for Russia everyday people, compared to us they had feudal serfdom, the authoritarian governments of nineteenth century replaced by mad Marxist murderers, and as we rejoice fall of Soviet Union they go straight into this Putin shit, never been free like us. Sad to think ☹️
    The street thugs weren't poor. The KGB guys were privileged. The elite. Then the system began to crumble. They began to fall in status. And the street thugs now had even more money. Some took jobs with the street thugs. Others rapidly moved into their organisations where their skills and contacts became extremely marketable.

    Yes, the contrast with how things turned out in the UK is one to make you think. Churchill and others noted it - that compared to so many other societies, in the UK, the elite ceded power remarkably easily.
    Thank you. That’s the innate British sense of fair play I guess in being won over by argument and ceding power.

    It was Putin and Abramovich I was thinking of in my previous thread.

    At the peak of perestroika, Abramovich sold imported rubber ducks from his Moscow apartment.[

    Sounds like the Trotters.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich
  • rcs1000 said:

    I find the idea you need to be a shit to succeed in politics depressing, but also wrong.

    In the UK, only Boris is a fully-fledged shit.
    Cameron, Blair, and Wilson were borderline, and for different reasons, Brown. Mostly, British PMs are non-shits. At least in the post-war period.

    The US might be less lucky. Obviously Trump, and probably Clinton. But Biden no, nor Obama, nor the Bushes, nor Reagan, Carter or even Ford. Before that, though, a string of shits: Nixon, LBJ, JFK.

    France seems to prefer shits.
    Macron is a shit. Sarkozy, Chirac, Mitterrand, d’Estaing - all shits. Hollande not. I don’t have a view on Pompidou, and I am torn about De Gaulle.

    Hollande may not have been a shit. But he was also... well... shit.
    "See, there are three kinds of people: dicks, pussies and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes. And all the assholes want is to shit all over everything. So pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while because, pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes! And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited February 2022
    Konstantin Kisin talks about the situation in Ukraine and Russia. Starts at 20:03. (He's one of the hosts of the Triggernometry podcast).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNnq8gMAE-8
  • Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    A retired neurologist told me that he thinks Putin has Parkinson's. Quite advance and he is taking *all* the drugs to suppress symptoms.

    Oh dear, the similarities keep piling up.

    It would certainly explain why he had to go *now* rather than wait until Nord Stream 2 was up and running, say.

    No serious doctor would carry out the diagnosis of a medical condition by news media.

    Some mushwit with the intellectual capacity of a Daily Mail journalist, maybe.

    But not a scientist who wished to be taken even half-way seriously.
    Our own Foxy has given such opinions before.
    See the case of Professor David Southall on wiki.

    "In 2004, following more complaints from the MAMA campaign and Mr Clark, Professor Southall was found guilty of serious professional misconduct by the General Medical Council (GMC), after alleging to a police child protection officer that the husband of Sally Clark, a mother convicted of murdering two of her babies, was himself almost certainly responsible for murdering the couple's children. Professor Southall made the claim in confidence to a child protection officer of the Staffordshire police after watching a television documentary about the case as he was concerned about the safety of the surviving child"

    It is not very sensible to look at a TV program, and conclude a diagnosis.
    it’s not a diagnosis, rather a tentative but not in reasonable speculation about the possibility that Putin is ill.
    A solemn chap on the BBC would give his view as the cameras paned along the collection on top of the Kremlin.
    They were on top of Lenin’s tomb, which always was an unfortunate location…
    They were on top of Lenin’s tomb,
    which was an unfortunate location
    For all of a sudden war broke out
    And they decided to change vocation

    Was Russian government in old days thieving McMafia gangsters like today, or just the boring and pervy mandarins they appear to be
    The modern system of gangsterism in Russia had deep roots.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_in_law - at the end of Soviet times to get things done required working "on the left". Which meant working with the mafia. The military would even do this, to get building materials for projects for example. Yes, the parallel with Trump and contraction in New York in the 80s is amusing.

    So when things changed, they were perfectly positioned to take a chunk of everything... and the most enterprising member of the security services integrated with them to form the Mafia State we see today.
    Thanks for that, it is very interesting. Bitch Wars leapt out at me read through later 👍🏻

    So that’s how a poverty stricken street thug and gangster, and KGB evil desk clerk got to know each other, become friends and make plans?

    However it seems to me we should be very sorry for Russia everyday people, compared to us they had feudal serfdom, the authoritarian governments of nineteenth century replaced by mad Marxist murderers, and as we rejoice fall of Soviet Union they go straight into this Putin shit, never been free like us. Sad to think ☹️
    The street thugs weren't poor. The KGB guys were privileged. The elite. Then the system began to crumble. They began to fall in status. And the street thugs now had even more money. Some took jobs with the street thugs. Others rapidly moved into their organisations where their skills and contacts became extremely marketable.

    Yes, the contrast with how things turned out in the UK is one to make you think. Churchill and others noted it - that compared to so many other societies, in the UK, the elite ceded power remarkably easily.
    Thank you. That’s the innate British sense of fair play I guess in being won over by argument and ceding power.

    It was Putin and Abramovich I was thinking of in my previous thread.

    At the peak of perestroika, Abramovich sold imported rubber ducks from his Moscow apartment.[

    Sounds like the Trotters.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich
    "He who dares, Roman! He who dares!"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Still feels like our response is fucking impotent

    I found myself agreeing with David Davis, which is never a good look.
  • On German TV, German energy minister Habeck says Gazprom has worked towards the current moment by "systematically holding back gas deliveries" to Europe and emptying its reserves in Germany at the start of the winter….

    Around 20-25% of Germany's gas reserves are run by Gazprom, either directly or via joint ventures. At the start of February they were on average only 15.9% full, considerably lower than others. (graphic via @iw_koeln)


    https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/1496980726390169601?s=21
  • Farooq said:

    Good luck to the Russian protesters, and kudos to you too.

    I remember attending a few marches in 2003 to protest against the UK's grotesque invasion of Iraq, but this feels bigger and it is certainly in a much more oppressive environment. The Russian protesters are braver than I needed to be in 2003.

    I find your comparison of the two protests a bit grotesque.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited February 2022

    On German TV, German energy minister Habeck says Gazprom has worked towards the current moment by "systematically holding back gas deliveries" to Europe and emptying its reserves in Germany at the start of the winter….

    Around 20-25% of Germany's gas reserves are run by Gazprom, either directly or via joint ventures. At the start of February they were on average only 15.9% full, considerably lower than others. (graphic via @iw_koeln)


    https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/1496980726390169601?s=21

    So Gerhard Schroeder has effectively engaged in economic sabotage of his own country.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Good luck to the Russian protesters, and kudos to you too.

    I remember attending a few marches in 2003 to protest against the UK's grotesque invasion of Iraq, but this feels bigger and it is certainly in a much more oppressive environment. The Russian protesters are braver than I needed to be in 2003.

    I find your comparison of the two protests a bit grotesque.
    Do you? So fucking what?
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Good luck to the Russian protesters, and kudos to you too.

    I remember attending a few marches in 2003 to protest against the UK's grotesque invasion of Iraq, but this feels bigger and it is certainly in a much more oppressive environment. The Russian protesters are braver than I needed to be in 2003.

    I find your comparison of the two protests a bit grotesque.
    Do you? So fucking what?
    I do. So I'll tell you when I think so.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I see James “Cleverly” is telling David Lammy not to be racist on QT for calling out the Russian money washing around the Tory Party.

    I don’t think anyone’s buying it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    On German TV, German energy minister Habeck says Gazprom has worked towards the current moment by "systematically holding back gas deliveries" to Europe and emptying its reserves in Germany at the start of the winter….

    Around 20-25% of Germany's gas reserves are run by Gazprom, either directly or via joint ventures. At the start of February they were on average only 15.9% full, considerably lower than others. (graphic via @iw_koeln)


    https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/1496980726390169601?s=21

    So Gerhard Schroeder has effectively engaged in economic sabotage of his own country.
    Yes, he's sold his country out for a few roubles.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited February 2022

    Still feels like our response is fucking impotent

    Russia has the biggest number of tanks in the world, the largest nuclear missile arsenal in the world, the 2nd largest airforce in the world and the 5th largest number of troops in the world.

    The UK alone can do sod all against Putin other than impose economic sanctions. Only all NATO nations combined, us, France, Italy, Canada, Germany, Spain, Poland, Turkey and indeed the USA of course would be enough to contain him. That requires heavy economic sanctions on Russia from all of them and NATO reinforcements being sent to NATO nations in Eastern Europe as Biden and other NATO world leaders including Boris have started to do
  • Igor Polikha, Ukraine's envoy to India, expressed deep dissatisfaction regarding the stance adopted by the Indian Ministry of External Affairs. Earlier that day, India's Ministry of External Affairs had announced that "India is closely following the development of events in the region".[247] India is the biggest source of international students in Ukraine.[248]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I see James “Cleverly” is telling David Lammy not to be racist on QT for calling out the Russian money washing around the Tory Party.

    I don’t think anyone’s buying it.

    Cleverly was abysmal on Nicky Campbell's show on 5Live yesterday morning. Absolutely hopeless.

    There are smart people in the PCP, unfortunately almost none of them are anywhere near Government.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,915
    edited February 2022
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Good luck to the Russian protesters, and kudos to you too.

    I remember attending a few marches in 2003 to protest against the UK's grotesque invasion of Iraq, but this feels bigger and it is certainly in a much more oppressive environment. The Russian protesters are braver than I needed to be in 2003.

    I find your comparison of the two protests a bit grotesque.
    Do you? So fucking what?
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Good luck to the Russian protesters, and kudos to you too.

    I remember attending a few marches in 2003 to protest against the UK's grotesque invasion of Iraq, but this feels bigger and it is certainly in a much more oppressive environment. The Russian protesters are braver than I needed to be in 2003.

    I find your comparison of the two protests a bit grotesque.
    Do you? So fucking what?
    I do. So I'll tell you when I think so.
    Marvellous. I suppose you were one of those people standing around slack-jawed in 2003 shouting "RAGGIES!" at the protestors.

    I guess if you lived in Moscow you'd be one of the ones rounding protesters up into vans.
    Don't be a complete prick. The protestors in Russia know they can be jailed for years or even Navalny'd.

    You went to a reasonable demonstration that would have only had you arrested if you'd broken the law.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    edited February 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Still feels like our response is fucking impotent

    Russia has the biggest number of tanks in the world, the largest nuclear missile arsenal in the world, the 2nd largest airforce in the world and the 5th largest number of troops in the world.
    So? Ukraine is giving it a good go.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    edited February 2022

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    A retired neurologist told me that he thinks Putin has Parkinson's. Quite advance and he is taking *all* the drugs to suppress symptoms.

    Oh dear, the similarities keep piling up.

    It would certainly explain why he had to go *now* rather than wait until Nord Stream 2 was up and running, say.

    No serious doctor would carry out the diagnosis of a medical condition by news media.

    Some mushwit with the intellectual capacity of a Daily Mail journalist, maybe.

    But not a scientist who wished to be taken even half-way seriously.
    Our own Foxy has given such opinions before.
    See the case of Professor David Southall on wiki.

    "In 2004, following more complaints from the MAMA campaign and Mr Clark, Professor Southall was found guilty of serious professional misconduct by the General Medical Council (GMC), after alleging to a police child protection officer that the husband of Sally Clark, a mother convicted of murdering two of her babies, was himself almost certainly responsible for murdering the couple's children. Professor Southall made the claim in confidence to a child protection officer of the Staffordshire police after watching a television documentary about the case as he was concerned about the safety of the surviving child"

    It is not very sensible to look at a TV program, and conclude a diagnosis.
    it’s not a diagnosis, rather a tentative but not in reasonable speculation about the possibility that Putin is ill.
    A solemn chap on the BBC would give his view as the cameras paned along the collection on top of the Kremlin.
    They were on top of Lenin’s tomb, which always was an unfortunate location…
    They were on top of Lenin’s tomb,
    which was an unfortunate location
    For all of a sudden war broke out
    And they decided to change vocation

    Was Russian government in old days thieving McMafia gangsters like today, or just the boring and pervy mandarins they appear to be
    The modern system of gangsterism in Russia had deep roots.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_in_law - at the end of Soviet times to get things done required working "on the left". Which meant working with the mafia. The military would even do this, to get building materials for projects for example. Yes, the parallel with Trump and contraction in New York in the 80s is amusing.

    So when things changed, they were perfectly positioned to take a chunk of everything... and the most enterprising member of the security services integrated with them to form the Mafia State we see today.
    Thanks for that, it is very interesting. Bitch Wars leapt out at me read through later 👍🏻

    So that’s how a poverty stricken street thug and gangster, and KGB evil desk clerk got to know each other, become friends and make plans?

    However it seems to me we should be very sorry for Russia everyday people, compared to us they had feudal serfdom, the authoritarian governments of nineteenth century replaced by mad Marxist murderers, and as we rejoice fall of Soviet Union they go straight into this Putin shit, never been free like us. Sad to think ☹️
    The street thugs weren't poor. The KGB guys were privileged. The elite. Then the system began to crumble. They began to fall in status. And the street thugs now had even more money. Some took jobs with the street thugs. Others rapidly moved into their organisations where their skills and contacts became extremely marketable.

    Yes, the contrast with how things turned out in the UK is one to make you think. Churchill and others noted it - that compared to so many other societies, in the UK, the elite ceded power remarkably easily.
    Thank you. That’s the innate British sense of fair play I guess in being won over by argument and ceding power.

    It was Putin and Abramovich I was thinking of in my previous thread.

    At the peak of perestroika, Abramovich sold imported rubber ducks from his Moscow apartment.[

    Sounds like the Trotters.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich
    "He who dares, Roman! He who dares!"
    “Well it’s just that I thought I’d be doing something better with my life by now, than selling rubber ducks out my flat. Where did we get them? They don’t even float properly, just keel over showing made in India on their ass.” [insert canned laughter]
    ‘It just so happens i’m meeting this geezer down the Empress Head lunchtime. Bit of an odd sock, you wouldn’t play poker with him. But he says he has a bit of gear he needs selling on.”
    “What kind of gear?”
    “Oh you know. Oil.”
    “Oil? Not like that niche extra virgin olive oil you tried to shift on from Italy? When we translated the label it was lighter fluid!”
    “No not not like that. Though the salad at Olegs BBQ did go with a bit of a bang” [insert canned laughter]
    “You immolated his cat!”
    “No - no that wasn’t his cat. It belonged to his daughter.”
    “So? Like what then.”
    “Like 57,000 barrels of crude oil.”
    “What the…”
    “You coming, or sitting around here admiring the ass on your rubber duckies the rest of your life?”
  • I protested against homeopathy once. I could have been dissolved into more than 10 to power of 23 pieces. The Russian protestors are braver than I was.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    Still feels like our response is fucking impotent

    Russia has the biggest number of tanks in the world, the largest nuclear missile arsenal in the world, the 2nd largest airforce in the world and the 5th largest number of troops in the world.
    So? Ukraine is giving it a good go.
    Yes but Kyiv will still likely fall to the Russians, maybe within a week, certainly within a month.

    Then all they can really do is guerrilla warfare
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    Wordle 251 6/6

    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜🟨🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟩
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟩
    ⬜🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    Feh
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited February 2022

    Igor Polikha, Ukraine's envoy to India, expressed deep dissatisfaction regarding the stance adopted by the Indian Ministry of External Affairs. Earlier that day, India's Ministry of External Affairs had announced that "India is closely following the development of events in the region".[247] India is the biggest source of international students in Ukraine.[248]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

    Modi has urged an end to the violence but it is on the other side of the world to them and not of immediate concern.

    China and Pakistan are more of a threat to India than Russia is

    https://www.reuters.com/world/indias-modi-urges-end-ukraine-violence-call-with-putin-indian-govt-statement-2022-02-24/
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Zelenskyy’s speech from yesterday with English subtitles:

    https://twitter.com/PMoelleken/status/1496941845812760577

    Outstanding
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    On German TV, German energy minister Habeck says Gazprom has worked towards the current moment by "systematically holding back gas deliveries" to Europe and emptying its reserves in Germany at the start of the winter….

    Around 20-25% of Germany's gas reserves are run by Gazprom, either directly or via joint ventures. At the start of February they were on average only 15.9% full, considerably lower than others. (graphic via @iw_koeln)


    https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/1496980726390169601?s=21

    It’s true. There was that, Putin foot on the pipe to inflate the price thing going on, long before we realised this reason.

    Plays nicely into my analogy about Tories preparing well for the miners strike.
  • carnforth said:

    Wordle 251 6/6

    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜🟨🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟩
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟩
    ⬜🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    Feh

    Wordle 251 4/6

    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    Tough one!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited February 2022
    Getting bored of the BBC news going on about the new "Cold War". It looks distinctly "Hot" to me.


    A few interesting flights visible on Flight Radar this evening.

    There are two Stratotankers out of Mildenhall circling over Poland and Romania near to the Ukrainian border. What are they refuelling?

    There's a Global Hawk circling the Black Sea. There were two with transponders on before the war started. Where is the other one?


    I wonder if the information the US is clearly gathering will make any difference to the outcome. NATO may not be able to intervene directly, but conversely, the Russians will be unable to take out Ukraine's intelligence feed.

    Still, intelligence doesn't matter much if Putin is prepared to just lay waste to Kiev. Lets hope that doesn't happen.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Roger said:

    Zelenskyy’s speech from yesterday with English subtitles:

    https://twitter.com/PMoelleken/status/1496941845812760577

    Outstanding
    His career trajectory has been an exemplar of post-irony politics.

    He got his big break starring a TV sitcom which depicted him as a teacher who accidentally becomes president of Ukraine. Then the production company started a political party and he actually did become president of Ukraine.

    The UK equivalent would be Ricky Gervais becoming Prime Minister. Which would be a considerable upgrade on what we've got.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Zelenskyy’s speech from yesterday with English subtitles:

    https://twitter.com/PMoelleken/status/1496941845812760577

    Outstanding
    His career trajectory has been an exemplar of post-irony politics.

    He got his big break starring a TV sitcom which depicted him as a teacher who accidentally becomes president of Ukraine. Then the production company started a political party and he actually did become president of Ukraine.

    The UK equivalent would be Ricky Gervais becoming Prime Minister. Which would be a considerable upgrade on what we've got.
    What a classy time to mock the man.

    He's braver than you are in your ludicrous driving.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    carnforth said:

    Wordle 251 6/6

    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜🟨🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟩
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟩
    ⬜🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    Feh

    Wordle 251 4/6

    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜🟩⬜
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    Tough one!
    They are definitely picking awkward words...

    Wordle 251 4/6

    ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩
    ⬜🟩⬜⬜⬜
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332

    Getting bored of the BBC news going on about the new "Cold War". It looks distinctly "Hot" to me.


    A few interesting flights visible on Flight Radar this evening.

    There are two Stratotankers out of Mildenhall circling over Poland and Romania near to the Ukrainian border. What are they refuelling?

    There's a Global Hawk circling the Black Sea. There were two with transponders on before the war started. Where is the other one?


    I wonder if the information the US is clearly gathering will make any difference to the outcome. NATO may not be able to intervene directly, but conversely, the Russians will be unable to take out Ukraine's intelligence feed.

    Still, intelligence doesn't matter much if Putin is prepared to just lay waste to Kiev. Lets hope that doesn't happen.

    Fighters & Intelligence.

    The UK & US have been running combat air flights and you'd have to assume the locals are up in the air too but they don't need refuelling close to home. The number of intelligence gathering aircraft trotting up the Baltics and on the Polish border has been notable today. Some of them transponder on, some off which is why you see tankers but apparently nothing to refuel. The background to the former flights is significant. There is a school of thought around what if Russia does chance its arm further, so the big NATO contributors have been busy pushing assets into the East.

    There have been regular Black Sea overflights by the NATO owned drones for many days but they tend to go dark as they enter the area of interest, unlike the flights over Ukraine by the USAF. It looks like those same USAF drones are now doing the Black Sea.

  • I'm hoping that whoever was involved in the German decision to block all the munitions deliveries to Ukraine doesn't sleep easy tonight.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited February 2022

    I'm hoping that whoever was involved in the German decision to block all the munitions deliveries to Ukraine doesn't sleep easy tonight.

    The one thing to be optimistic about is that maybe this situation will shock the Germans out of their complacency.
  • More from Ukraine's foreign minister

    @DmytroKuleba
    Вперше відбулася розмова 2+2 глав міністерств закордонних справ і оборони України та Великої Британії. Теми: санкції та зброя. Лондон працює дуже інтенсивно з обидвох питань. Британія вірить в Україну та нашу перемогу над агресором.
    https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1496980590935089155

    Translate says..

    "For the first time, 2+2 heads of the Ministries of Foreign Affairs and Defense of Ukraine and the United Kingdom had a conversation. Topics: Sanctions and weapons. London is working very both issues. Britain believes in Ukraine and our victory over the aggressor."
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited February 2022
    https://amp.ft.com/content/8d4a29e6-4bef-4c52-92c4-ab588f6af51f

    “Worryingly for the post-pandemic recovery, people’s view on their personal financial situation in the year ahead fell by 12 points to minus 14, the worst reading since April 2020 at the height of the first lockdown.”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited February 2022
    'The use of force by one country against another is wrong, against the
    @UN Charter, and unacceptable.

    But it is not irreversible. I repeat my appeal to President Putin:

    Stop the military operation in Ukraine.

    Bring the troops back to Russia.'

    @antonioguterres UN Secretary General


  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191

    I see James “Cleverly” is telling David Lammy not to be racist on QT for calling out the Russian money washing around the Tory Party.

    I don’t think anyone’s buying it.

    We are not in conflict with the Russian people we are in conflict with the Russian government.
  • Could a lot of Russian soldiers be turned?

    Mark Urban
    @MarkUrban01
    Ok so I’ve just seen the video of two members of 11th Guard Air Assault Brigade being interrogated. I’m not going to post material like this because it demeans the prisoners - but most interesting thing was Russian soldiers claim they didn’t even know they were entering Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1497016667527864321
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited February 2022
    This is difficult to watch. Ukrainian MP begs for help from the outside world (on CBS News).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9ZQXmRsEWY
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited February 2022
    I think Russia basically wins this war.

    The question is, do they overthrow Zelenski, install a puppet and then (mostly) withdraw quite quickly, or is it a long term occupation? And if so, how much of Ukraine do they occupy?

    I’m not convinced Putin knows the answer to that, yet.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,915
    edited February 2022
    ping said:

    I think Russia basically wins this war.

    The question is, do they overthrow Zelenski, install a puppet and then (mostly) withdraw quite quickly, or is it a long term occupation? And if so, how much of Ukraine do they occupy?

    I’m not convinced Putin knows the answer to that, yet.

    We have to make sure Putin loses this war.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    ping said:

    I think Russia basically wins this war.

    The question is, do they overthrow Zelenski, install a puppet and then (mostly) withdraw quite quickly, or is it a long term occupation? And if so, how much of Ukraine do they occupy?

    I’m not convinced Putin knows the answer to that, yet.

    We have to make sure Putin loses this war.
    I don’t think it’s in our power. We can only deter the next war by defending, bolstering and possibly extending NATO.
  • ping said:

    ping said:

    I think Russia basically wins this war.

    The question is, do they overthrow Zelenski, install a puppet and then (mostly) withdraw quite quickly, or is it a long term occupation? And if so, how much of Ukraine do they occupy?

    I’m not convinced Putin knows the answer to that, yet.

    We have to make sure Putin loses this war.
    I don’t think it’s in our power. We can only deter the next war by defending, bolstering and possibly extending NATO.
    It's in America's power. But they're fretting about whether supplying weapons makes them an enemy of Russia.

    Anyone who isn't an enemy of Russia right now should be sanctioned.
  • Sunflower seeds lady..


    UkraineWorld
    @ukraine_world
    Ukrainian woman confronts Russian soldiers in Henychesk, Kherson region. Asks them why they came to our land and urges to put sunflower seeds in their pockets [so that flowers would grow when they die on the Ukrainian land]
    https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1496866811110834176


  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/

    Just browsing and, my god, American Conservatism is in an unhealthy place.

    Putin Apologism everywhere you look.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Sobering to read tweets like this from Ukrainian MPs.

    https://twitter.com/InnaSovsun/status/1497027633007108098
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Taiwan has said it will join democratic partners to impose economic sanctions on #Russia over its invasion to #Ukraine. In a statement, the Foreign Ministry strongly condemned Moscow's invasion and described it as a violation of UN Charter.

    https://twitter.com/williamyang120/status/1497038450687504386
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Pensfold said:

    I see James “Cleverly” is telling David Lammy not to be racist on QT for calling out the Russian money washing around the Tory Party.

    I don’t think anyone’s buying it.

    We are not in conflict with the Russian people we are in conflict with the Russian government.
    We’re in conflict with the forces of revanchist nationalism.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    More from Ukraine's foreign minister

    @DmytroKuleba
    Вперше відбулася розмова 2+2 глав міністерств закордонних справ і оборони України та Великої Британії. Теми: санкції та зброя. Лондон працює дуже інтенсивно з обидвох питань. Британія вірить в Україну та нашу перемогу над агресором.
    https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1496980590935089155

    Translate says..

    "For the first time, 2+2 heads of the Ministries of Foreign Affairs and Defense of Ukraine and the United Kingdom had a conversation. Topics: Sanctions and weapons. London is working very both issues. Britain believes in Ukraine and our victory over the aggressor."

    Very interesting role for the UK here.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Interesting idea. Debilitate Russia by offering a work visa to any Russian with a tech degree.

    https://twitter.com/alecstapp/status/1497003022622380037?s=21
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    This is an amazing thread about what is apparently a Russian naval vessel that masquerades as an oligarch’s “yacht” and was docked near Faslane last year.

    https://twitter.com/Still_Fast/status/1496600826655408128
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Interesting idea. Debilitate Russia by offering a work visa to any Russian with a tech degree.

    https://twitter.com/alecstapp/status/1497003022622380037?s=21

    Just strip out anyone with connections to the regime.
  • Putin is said to have been deeply affected by the way Muammar Qaddafi was killed. He watched the video of a bloodied Qaddafi dragged from his bunker, sodomized, and shot—over and over and over again.He thinks he is doing everything to avoid a similar fate. He's doing the opposite

    https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1497069692506329088?s=21
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited February 2022
    Yokes said:

    BERLIN, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Cutting off Russia from the SWIFT global interbank payment system should not be part of the second EU sanctions package against Russia that EU leaders will decide upon at a meeting on Thursday in Brussels, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-should-not-be-cut-off-swift-moment-germanys-scholz-2022-02-24/


    What more does Russia have to do?

    Reportedly its the Germans and the Italians who are the holdouts on this. Nice to see the old Axis powers sticking together.
    Nice smear James. A European democracy being invaded as we speak by an evil totalitarian empire, and you are calling two allied centrist European democracies fascists.

    Where do the secret services find folk like you? Less tap on the shoulder and more hire the online loony.
  • Heavy explosions in Kiev.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Yokes said:

    BERLIN, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Cutting off Russia from the SWIFT global interbank payment system should not be part of the second EU sanctions package against Russia that EU leaders will decide upon at a meeting on Thursday in Brussels, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-should-not-be-cut-off-swift-moment-germanys-scholz-2022-02-24/


    What more does Russia have to do?

    Reportedly its the Germans and the Italians who are the holdouts on this. Nice to see the old Axis powers sticking together.
    Nice smear James. A European democracy being invaded as we speak by an evil totalitarian empire, and you are calling two allied centrist European democracies fascists.

    Where do the secret services find folk like you? Less tap on the shoulder and more hire the online loony.
    Hey, he's just giving them the treatment you give England the English ... ;)
  • Ferryhill

    LAB: 41.3% (+6.4)
    IND (Newby): 24.9% (+24.9)
    CON: 16.4% (-11.9)
    IND (Makepeace): 7.8% (+7.8)
    GRN: 7.8% (+7.8)
    FA: 1.3% (+1.3)
    LDEM: 0.4% (+0.4)

    Labour GAIN from Independent.

    Votes cast: 2,120

    No other Ind (-36.8) as prev.

    Great Green result. Dire Lib Dem result: why did they even bother putting up a candidate? The SLDs just ignore contests like that.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Yokes said:

    BERLIN, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Cutting off Russia from the SWIFT global interbank payment system should not be part of the second EU sanctions package against Russia that EU leaders will decide upon at a meeting on Thursday in Brussels, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-should-not-be-cut-off-swift-moment-germanys-scholz-2022-02-24/


    What more does Russia have to do?

    Reportedly its the Germans and the Italians who are the holdouts on this. Nice to see the old Axis powers sticking together.
    Nice smear James. A European democracy being invaded as we speak by an evil totalitarian empire, and you are calling two allied centrist European democracies fascists.

    Where do the secret services find folk like you? Less tap on the shoulder and more hire the online loony.
    Hey, he's just giving them the treatment you give England the English ... ;)
    Yes at least most pro EU posters have the decency to stay quiet about the latest EU shambles wrt Ukraine. Germany and Italy ought to be hanging their heads in shame. Not quite sure what the Baltic states are likely to make of it all. While Finland - outside NATO might well be feeling especially queazy..
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Time to wave a white flag and surrender this thread to the avarice of archives.

    NEW THREAD
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    .
    ping said:

    I think Russia basically wins this war.

    The question is, do they overthrow Zelenski, install a puppet and then (mostly) withdraw quite quickly, or is it a long term occupation? And if so, how much of Ukraine do they occupy?

    I’m not convinced Putin knows the answer to that, yet.

    I think it's fairly clear that the strategy is to capture or kill all the Ukraine leadership and install puppets in their place.
    Zelensky is a very brave man to remain in the capital broadcasting to the world as it is under siege.

    Whether such a strategy is viable against a people prepared to resist is far from certain. But it's reasonably likely the capital will be captured absent greater western help.
    As Zekensky says, they have been left to fight alone.
This discussion has been closed.