Protests mount in Russia against Putin’s Ukraine invasion – politicalbetting.com

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Protests mount in Russia against Putin’s Ukraine invasion – politicalbetting.com

This thread is incredible. So emotional watching Russians taking to the streets to protest against Putin’s invasion. https://t.co/vsGxNLDvyo

Read the full story here

Sunil_Prasannan

First unlike Putin!

JACK_W

Well I never did.

ydoethur

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

IanB2

Fourth rate like our PM

ydoethur

JACK_W said:

Well I never did.

At your time of life, Your Grace, you should be minimising your exertions regarding things like protests so you don't show the rest of us up.

ydoethur

IanB2 said:

Fourth rate like our PM

You rate him very high.

rottenborough

ydoethur said:

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

The money men will bring Putin down. When he has become an out of control threat to their wallets and their daughter's party time in London and Cannes.

I'm hoping we are close now.

Pulpstar

I expect he has support in more rural areas, bit like Brexit....

FrankBooth

ydoethur said:

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

True but why is Putin motivated to take such risks anyway? Because protest at home is exactly what he fears.

kle4

ydoethur said:

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

He must be weak (not as weak as me, I accidentally called him Litvenenko earlier) to put himself in such a subservient position to Putin. Allied though they were he's gone above and beyond for the big man on this.

ydoethur

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

The money men will bring Putin down. When he has become an out of control threat to their wallets and their daughter's party time in London and Cannes.

I'm hoping we are close now.

It isn't Putin. It is the FSB that needs bringing down. He's just the face of it.

Will they do that? I doubt it very much.

Incidentally I wonder how much of this is the deranged fantasy of 'Greater Holy Russia' and how much is linked to their recent embarrassments in Belorussia, Kazakhstan and above all Armenia.

JosiasJessop

Brave people.

MoonRabbit

how do we understand the mission Russia is trying to achieve here?

I can’t see Putin coming out of this in a stronger rather than weaker position in the longer term. If the plan is to merely seize and hold the disputed regions in the East, maybe. But to install a puppet government to rewrite the constitution isn’t going to work - it’s not quite the same place as Belarus next door, the people will rise up with support of police and military before long, and rewrite the constitution back again. Russia cannot seize and hold all this, nor have a puppet government for long?

Also,on topic how do we understand the strength for this in the Moscow power brokers? Putin might be wearing the weight of being greater Russian nationalists rather determinedly, but if the McMafia friends all around him see the shares they own halving in value and not recovering, their treasure pots emptying, are they in just same mind as him to go down this world of pain for Russia?

another_richard

Pulpstar said:

I expect he has support in more rural areas, bit like Brexit....

It was the industrial towns which won it for Brexit and they wouldn't have done so if the immigration issue was replaced by conscription for a foreign war.

kle4

rottenborough said:

boulay said:

Fairliered said:

Gardenwalker said:

rottenborough said:

Ben Riley-Smith
@benrileysmith
·
38s
Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.

10pm tonight. Sorry, Carrie, not tonight. I’ve got a headache.

10.05 trashed sofa and broken crockery.

Are there some animals at Kyiv zoo that need airlifting?

Surely you remember the stories from when Yanukovich was ousted about his odd little Ostrich zoo? So I am sure the answer is yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvglmGYrTnI

rottenborough

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

JosiasJessop

On another note, Putin has just put another nail into Russia's space program. Already in deep trouble and riven with corruption, it is doubtful that commercial customers and NASA will be flocking to their door. China will gain little from partnering with them, having already caught up with Russia.

A program with a stellar history and massive potential has been on life support for some time. It is quite possible that their manned program will end in the next few years, especially with the end of the ISS coming up. They will not probably no have a destination to send crew to.

As for what happens with the International Space Station: who knows? The project was one of the schemes the US used to keep Russia on side after 1989 (initially with the Shuttle-MIR program), so it may be one of the last to go.

Stuartinromford

another_richard said:

Pulpstar said:

I expect he has support in more rural areas, bit like Brexit....

It was the industrial towns which won it for Brexit and they wouldn't have done so if the immigration issue was replaced by conscription for a foreign war.

Wasn't one of the undercurrents of Facebook misinformation (nothing to do with Russia, of course) fear of the sons and daughters of Albion being conscripted into the European Army?

another_richard

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

The money men will bring Putin down. When he has become an out of control threat to their wallets and their daughter's party time in London and Cannes.

I'm hoping we are close now.

It isn't Putin. It is the FSB that needs bringing down. He's just the face of it.

Will they do that? I doubt it very much.

Incidentally I wonder how much of this is the deranged fantasy of 'Greater Holy Russia' and how much is linked to their recent embarrassments in Belorussia, Kazakhstan and above all Armenia.

I suspect the Armenia humiliation has a significant effect.

Plus Putin hasn't been acting rationally throughout covid - the weird distancing being merely the most visible manifestation of it.

He might be a KGB thug, crime boss and Greater Russian imperialist but he's also a self styled tough guy who's getting laughed at for his phobias.

rottenborough

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

boulay said:

Fairliered said:

Gardenwalker said:

rottenborough said:

Ben Riley-Smith
@benrileysmith
·
38s
Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.

10pm tonight. Sorry, Carrie, not tonight. I’ve got a headache.

10.05 trashed sofa and broken crockery.

Are there some animals at Kyiv zoo that need airlifting?

Surely you remember the stories from when Yanukovich was ousted about his odd little Ostrich zoo? So I am sure the answer is yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvglmGYrTnI

What is it with these criminals? Pablo Escobar had a zoo iirc.

ydoethur

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

Although in that very specific case I would point out our own government is not really in a position to lecture, having recently said we can't state opinions, in response to a factual statement that the PM is a liar.

In doing so, they have ordered us, in effect, to stop teaching history, political science, theology and economics, insofar as we still could after the epic clusterfuck they have made of exam reform.

As against that, Blower is herself a lying, stupid c*** who makes Johnson look like George Washington, and in common with most people in Unite against Fascism is a card-carrying fascist, so I agree with the general thrust of your comment.

(By the way, she was head of one of five teachers' unions, not 'head of the teachers' union.)

kle4

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

I'd avoid their rally on 2nd March then - I'm not sure they'll manage to all be disciplined enough to rein it in like some of signatories managed todya.

Stuartinromford

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

The money men will bring Putin down. When he has become an out of control threat to their wallets and their daughter's party time in London and Cannes.

I'm hoping we are close now.

It isn't Putin. It is the FSB that needs bringing down. He's just the face of it.

Will they do that? I doubt it very much.

Incidentally I wonder how much of this is the deranged fantasy of 'Greater Holy Russia' and how much is linked to their recent embarrassments in Belorussia, Kazakhstan and above all Armenia.

One of the many things I don't know the answer to, and may regret being told;

If Putin were to fall over this, what are the odds of that making things worse, not better? I'm thinking of the "Making History" scenario of killing Hitler and seeing him replaced with someone just as evil but more effective.

(Still love that book's description of the joy of finishing a PhD thesis, "ha ha Maccie Thatcher, I'm not a slave to you any more..." or words to that effect. And the quaint idea of having the Cambridge Evening News delivered every day. Does anyone do that any more?)

glw

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

I get the dumb "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that some of these people engage in, what I don't get is how they never seem to realise that the very people they are siding with would persecute them given half the chance.

rottenborough

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

Although in that very specific case I would point out our own government is not really in a position to lecture, having recently said we can't state opinions, in response to a factual statement that the PM is a liar.

In doing so, they have ordered us, in effect, to stop teaching history, political science, theology and economics, insofar as we still could after the epic clusterfuck they have made of exam reform.

As against that, Blower is herself a lying, stupid c*** who makes Johnson look like George Washington, and in common with most people in Unite against Fascism is a card-carrying fascist, so I agree with the general thrust of your comment.

(By the way, she was head of one of five teachers' unions, not 'head of the teachers' union.)

Ok, my mistake. Have they not since all merged? I lose track.

another_richard

Stuartinromford said:

another_richard said:

Pulpstar said:

I expect he has support in more rural areas, bit like Brexit....

It was the industrial towns which won it for Brexit and they wouldn't have done so if the immigration issue was replaced by conscription for a foreign war.

Wasn't one of the undercurrents of Facebook misinformation (nothing to do with Russia, of course) fear of the sons and daughters of Albion being conscripted into the European Army?

More like foreign languages in the supermarkets, hospital waiting rooms and schools.

After Blair said it wouldn't happen and Cameron promised that it would end.

StuartDickson

Ukraine players ready for war as they join battalion as World Cup playoff with Scotland thrown in doubt

Ukrainian footballers have been joining their own battalion after Russia’s invasion as the country’s Premier League postponement has thrown next month’s World Cup play-off against Scotland into doubt.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ukraine-players-ready-war-join-26317168.amp

ydoethur

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

Although in that very specific case I would point out our own government is not really in a position to lecture, having recently said we can't state opinions, in response to a factual statement that the PM is a liar.

In doing so, they have ordered us, in effect, to stop teaching history, political science, theology and economics, insofar as we still could after the epic clusterfuck they have made of exam reform.

As against that, Blower is herself a lying, stupid c*** who makes Johnson look like George Washington, and in common with most people in Unite against Fascism is a card-carrying fascist, so I agree with the general thrust of your comment.

(By the way, she was head of one of five teachers' unions, not 'head of the teachers' union.)

Ok, my mistake. Have they not since all merged? I lose track.

No. The NUT (which she led, but after she had left) merged with the ATL on the back of a lot of malicious propaganda that even RT would blench at.

But Nasuwt, the Voice and the ASCL are all still independent.

another_richard

glw said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

I get the dumb "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that some of these people engage in, what I don't get is how they never seem to realise that the very people they are siding with would persecute them given half the chance.

They assume they would be doing the persecuting.

ydoethur

Stuartinromford said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

The money men will bring Putin down. When he has become an out of control threat to their wallets and their daughter's party time in London and Cannes.

I'm hoping we are close now.

It isn't Putin. It is the FSB that needs bringing down. He's just the face of it.

Will they do that? I doubt it very much.

Incidentally I wonder how much of this is the deranged fantasy of 'Greater Holy Russia' and how much is linked to their recent embarrassments in Belorussia, Kazakhstan and above all Armenia.

One of the many things I don't know the answer to, and may regret being told;

If Putin were to fall over this, what are the odds of that making things worse, not better? I'm thinking of the "Making History" scenario of killing Hitler and seeing him replaced with someone just as evil but more effective.

Impossible to say without knowing who would replace him. If it was Medvedev, possibly it would improve. If it was Bortnikov, however...

Stuartinromford

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

Although in that very specific case I would point out our own government is not really in a position to lecture, having recently said we can't state opinions, in response to a factual statement that the PM is a liar.

In doing so, they have ordered us, in effect, to stop teaching history, political science, theology and economics, insofar as we still could after the epic clusterfuck they have made of exam reform.

As against that, Blower is herself a lying, stupid c*** who makes Johnson look like George Washington, and in common with most people in Unite against Fascism is a card-carrying fascist, so I agree with the general thrust of your comment.

(By the way, she was head of one of five teachers' unions, not 'head of the teachers' union.)

Ok, my mistake. Have they not since all merged? I lose track.

No. The NUT (which she led, but after she had left) merged with the ATL on the back of a lot of malicious propaganda that even RT would blench at.

But Nasuwt, the Voice and the ASCL are all still independent.

It was an odd marriage. ATL was (just about) a proper union, but never felt like one. I remember a strange school meeting which boiled down to "we've voted to strike, does anyone know what we're meant to do next?"

Shame it went.

BlancheLivermore

@MsJulieLenarz
Thousands of people attend an anti-war protest in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

Their bravery is humbling.

https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1496942820606849035

kle4

ydoethur said:

Stuartinromford said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

You have to admire their courage, but protests didn't topple Lukashenko - who was and is in a much weaker position - and it therefore seems unlikely they will damage Putin.

The money men will bring Putin down. When he has become an out of control threat to their wallets and their daughter's party time in London and Cannes.

I'm hoping we are close now.

It isn't Putin. It is the FSB that needs bringing down. He's just the face of it.

Will they do that? I doubt it very much.

Incidentally I wonder how much of this is the deranged fantasy of 'Greater Holy Russia' and how much is linked to their recent embarrassments in Belorussia, Kazakhstan and above all Armenia.

One of the many things I don't know the answer to, and may regret being told;

If Putin were to fall over this, what are the odds of that making things worse, not better? I'm thinking of the "Making History" scenario of killing Hitler and seeing him replaced with someone just as evil but more effective.

Impossible to say without knowing who would replace him. If it was Medvedev, possibly it would improve. If it was Bortnikov, however...

He has been Director of the FSB since 12 May 2008

I was idly looking at some of the senior officials around Putin, and was surprised that a lot of them do appear to have been with him a long time. Guy like, paranoid and massively sensitive as well as authoritarian, I'd have assumed a lot of the top gang would have been eased out by now.

Malmesbury

MoonRabbit said:

how do we understand the mission Russia is trying to achieve here?

I can’t see Putin coming out of this in a stronger rather than weaker position in the longer term. If the plan is to merely seize and hold the disputed regions in the East, maybe. But to install a puppet government to rewrite the constitution isn’t going to work - it’s not quite the same place as Belarus next door, the people will rise up with support of police and military before long, and rewrite the constitution back again. Russia cannot seize and hold all this, nor have a puppet government for long?

Also,on topic how do we understand the strength for this in the Moscow power brokers? Putin might be wearing the weight of being greater Russian nationalists rather determinedly, but if the McMafia friends all around him see the shares they own halving in value and not recovering, their treasure pots emptying, are they in just same mind as him to go down this world of pain for Russia?

It's not about what is logical - the faces at the security council meeting made that clear.

There is something else going on with Putin, and it isn't about mathematically defined cost/benefit.

another_richard

So who would be the solid, conservative GOP candidate to bet on ?

It seems like that in a more dangerous world someone more secure would be in demand not the return of a senile egotist to replace a senile dodderer.

ydoethur

Stuartinromford said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

Although in that very specific case I would point out our own government is not really in a position to lecture, having recently said we can't state opinions, in response to a factual statement that the PM is a liar.

In doing so, they have ordered us, in effect, to stop teaching history, political science, theology and economics, insofar as we still could after the epic clusterfuck they have made of exam reform.

As against that, Blower is herself a lying, stupid c*** who makes Johnson look like George Washington, and in common with most people in Unite against Fascism is a card-carrying fascist, so I agree with the general thrust of your comment.

(By the way, she was head of one of five teachers' unions, not 'head of the teachers' union.)

Ok, my mistake. Have they not since all merged? I lose track.

No. The NUT (which she led, but after she had left) merged with the ATL on the back of a lot of malicious propaganda that even RT would blench at.

But Nasuwt, the Voice and the ASCL are all still independent.

It was an odd marriage. ATL was (just about) a proper union, but never felt like one. I remember a strange school meeting which boiled down to "we've voted to strike, does anyone know what we're meant to do next?"

Shame it went.

It was a forced takeover. And a disgusting one. I sent so many furious protests about the lies they were telling in terms of how effective the merged union would be that they forget to send me my ballot. Then they were rather green when they got my letter of resignation, judging by the rather snide reply I got.

But the ATL was backed into a position where for various reasons it didn't have a lot of choice in the matter.

Yokes

Its worth watching for signs of disruption within kiev tonight not just around it.

tlg86

In the Blair Brown series, Alastair Campbell has a theory on demos. It’s something like if 10 people turn up, then 100 people thought about going. It was in the context of the Iraq demo (as in, if a million turned up a lot more thought about going).

ydoethur

another_richard said:

So who would be the solid, conservative GOP candidate to bet on ?

It seems like that in a more dangerous world someone more secure would be in demand not the return of a senile egotist to replace a senile dodderer.

I think that betting on anyone vaguely sane to be the candidate of the current Republican movement is a sure way to lose money. Even now.

MoonRabbit

*sanction war post
I don’t wish to belittle the pain and suffering of the Ukrainians, but just for your thoughts on the amount of pain on UK from the Sanction War Boris committed us to at lunchtime, until Putin regime is changed. Energy Price Cap of 3K by October? Where will Petrol go and how long stay there? Inflation? Even before today has to be factored in, IMF suggest UK should bring forward the tax increases to brake inflation rather than rely on interest rates, the plan being to stifle wage inflation earlier meaning inflation doesn’t hang around at problem levels as long, if I understand what they are saying. Though I don’t understand what “highly accommodative monetary and fiscal policy” and “tightest labour market” actually means because I gave up on school at a young age, I get the gist everything is pointing to wage inflation that means prolonging the inflation period. But Rishi under pressure to cancel those tax cuts, do the people like Starmer pushing this realise consequence is even more inflation hurting the everyday people he seeks to represent? And do IMF ever appreciate they are wasting their time suggesting what is politically difficult like bringing contentious tax hike forwards so suggest something doable?

another_richard

tlg86 said:

In the Blair Brown series, Alastair Campbell has a theory on demos. It’s something like if 10 people turn up, then 100 people thought about going. It was in the context of the Iraq demo (as in, if a million turned up a lot more thought about going).

Possibly.

But I'd say there's also a critical mass which once achieved it becomes increasingly easy for people to join.

carnforth

glw said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

I get the dumb "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that some of these people engage in, what I don't get is how they never seem to realise that the very people they are siding with would persecute them given half the chance.

They think they would be on the committees, not subject to the committees. Many of this class of person understand democracy only analytically, rather than instinctively, and would be perfectly happy with a world run by committees of worthies, if those worthies were their friends, and made the right dinner-party-appropriate decisions.

Taz

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

boulay said:

Fairliered said:

Gardenwalker said:

rottenborough said:

Ben Riley-Smith
@benrileysmith
·
38s
Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.

10pm tonight. Sorry, Carrie, not tonight. I’ve got a headache.

10.05 trashed sofa and broken crockery.

Are there some animals at Kyiv zoo that need airlifting?

Surely you remember the stories from when Yanukovich was ousted about his odd little Ostrich zoo? So I am sure the answer is yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvglmGYrTnI

What is it with these criminals? Pablo Escobar had a zoo iirc.

One of his legacies is a plague of Hippos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippopotamus_in_Colombia

ydoethur

carnforth said:

glw said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

I get the dumb "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that some of these people engage in, what I don't get is how they never seem to realise that the very people they are siding with would persecute them given half the chance.

They think they would be on the committees, not subject to the committees. Many of this class of person understand democracy only analytically, rather than instinctively, and would be perfectly happy with a world run by committees of worthies, if those worthies were their friends, and made the right dinner-party-appropriate decisions.

Can you wonder teachers are ambivalent about democracy? It gave us the DfE, Michael Gove and Gavin Williamson.

MattW

*Very* interesting debunking of falsified photos from BBC Reality Check, raising their game.

A few of the common pictures which have gone viral today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60513452

williamglenn

Putin and Macron just spoke. Sounds like it got heated.

They had a "serious and frank exchange of views about the Ukraine situation," the Kremlin says. "Vladimir Putin gave extensive explanations of why a decision was taken to launch a special military operation."

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1496947771546521604

Sean_F

It takes a lot of guts to demonstrate against Putin. They are very brave men and women.

BlancheLivermore

@StrategyBin
The Ukrainian military has called upon its civilians to partake in hostilities through molotov cocktails and engaging convoys.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=900361373993279

https://twitter.com/StrategyBin/status/1496946472373346304

Leon

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

Sean_F

glw said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

I get the dumb "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that some of these people engage in, what I don't get is how they never seem to realise that the very people they are siding with would persecute them given half the chance.

They probably imagine themselves as being operatives within the NKVD or Volkspolizei, given the opportunity.

ydoethur

williamglenn said:

Putin and Macron just spoke. Sounds like it got heated.

They had a "serious and frank exchange of views about the Ukraine situation," the Kremlin says. "Vladimir Putin gave extensive explanations of why a decision was taken to launch a special military operation."

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1496947771546521604

'Because I wanted to as I have a small dick.'

I wouldn't call that 'extended.' Or did he get drunk and start rambling about Kievan Rus again?

Mexicanpete

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

Although in that very specific case I would point out our own government is not really in a position to lecture, having recently said we can't state opinions, in response to a factual statement that the PM is a liar.

In doing so, they have ordered us, in effect, to stop teaching history, political science, theology and economics, insofar as we still could after the epic clusterfuck they have made of exam reform.

As against that, Blower is herself a lying, stupid c*** who makes Johnson look like George Washington, and in common with most people in Unite against Fascism is a card-carrying fascist, so I agree with the general thrust of your comment.

(By the way, she was head of one of five teachers' unions, not 'head of the teachers' union.)

Ok, my mistake. Have they not since all merged? I lose track.

No. The NUT (which she led, but after she had left) merged with the ATL on the back of a lot of malicious propaganda that even RT would blench at.

But Nasuwt, the Voice and the ASCL are all still independent.

My late father who was Labour 'til he died could never keep up with the militancy of the teaching unions. He left the NUT for the NAS after they did something absurd in the 1960s and left the NAS in 1979 when they struck between governments. He then joined the AMMA until he retired.

BlancheLivermore

BlancheLivermore said:

@StrategyBin
The Ukrainian military has called upon its civilians to partake in hostilities through molotov cocktails and engaging convoys.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=900361373993279

https://twitter.com/StrategyBin/status/1496946472373346304

This is the end of the text on the facebook post

"The military appeals to citizens: each bottle of incendiary mixture from the roof to the enemy tank, each shot of hunting weapons on the occupier's car sharply reduces the offensive appetites of the invaders, gives a significant advantage to the defense forces in repelling armed aggression.
Stay calm! Follow the information on official resources!
Together to victory!
#stoprussia"

another_richard

MoonRabbit said:

*sanction war post
I don’t wish to belittle the pain and suffering of the Ukrainians, but just for your thoughts on the amount of pain on UK from the Sanction War Boris committed us to at lunchtime, until Putin regime is changed. Energy Price Cap of 3K by October? Where will Petrol go and how long stay there? Inflation? Even before today has to be factored in, IMF suggest UK should bring forward the tax increases to brake inflation rather than rely on interest rates, the plan being to stifle wage inflation earlier meaning inflation doesn’t hang around at problem levels as long, if I understand what they are saying. Though I don’t understand what “highly accommodative monetary and fiscal policy” and “tightest labour market” actually means because I gave up on school at a young age, I get the gist everything is pointing to wage inflation that means prolonging the inflation period. But Rishi under pressure to cancel those tax cuts, do the people like Starmer pushing this realise consequence is even more inflation hurting the everyday people he seeks to represent? And do IMF ever appreciate they are wasting their time suggesting what is politically difficult like bringing contentious tax hike forwards so suggest something doable?

The IMF don't have a clue about the real world.

If you have full employment and a million vacancies then you're not going to stifle wage inflation with tax rises.

Instead workers will demand higher wages to make up for the higher taxes.

kle4

williamglenn said:

Putin and Macron just spoke. Sounds like it got heated.

They had a "serious and frank exchange of views about the Ukraine situation," the Kremlin says. "Vladimir Putin gave extensive explanations of why a decision was taken to launch a special military operation."

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1496947771546521604

Not sure Macron deserved that pile of bilge a second time, he'll have seen the news.

kle4

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw

I'm going to guess that somewhere right now an american GOPer is tweeting 'See, if everyone had a gun all the time everything would be fine!' then say something about their right to carry an assault rifle to kindergarten.

MaxPB

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

The cost of victory for Putin is going to keep rising but he's committed now. Difficult to see a way out for him.

Taz

True courage

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1496906522080731139?s=21

Leon

kle4 said:

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw

I'm going to guess that somewhere right now an american GOPer is tweeting 'See, if everyone had a gun all the time everything would be fine!' then say something about their right to carry an assault rifle to kindergarten.

Follow the thread and you'll see you are exactly right

NickyBreakspear

williamglenn said:

Putin and Macron just spoke. Sounds like it got heated.

They had a "serious and frank exchange of views about the Ukraine situation," the Kremlin says. "Vladimir Putin gave extensive explanations of why a decision was taken to launch a special military operation."

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1496947771546521604

Is the Kremlin suggesting that Putin had a rant?

Stuartinromford

Sean_F said:

It takes a lot of guts to demonstrate against Putin. They are very brave men and women.

It's hopelessly naive to think that this is 1990 redux. But that rally in Bucharest just before Christmas (you know, the one where Ceaușescu got jeered for the first time, maybe ever, and suddenly turned into a confused old man) is one of the defining images of my lifetime.

I'd blooming love it to happen again.

MoonRabbit

another_richard said:

MoonRabbit said:

*sanction war post
I don’t wish to belittle the pain and suffering of the Ukrainians, but just for your thoughts on the amount of pain on UK from the Sanction War Boris committed us to at lunchtime, until Putin regime is changed. Energy Price Cap of 3K by October? Where will Petrol go and how long stay there? Inflation? Even before today has to be factored in, IMF suggest UK should bring forward the tax increases to brake inflation rather than rely on interest rates, the plan being to stifle wage inflation earlier meaning inflation doesn’t hang around at problem levels as long, if I understand what they are saying. Though I don’t understand what “highly accommodative monetary and fiscal policy” and “tightest labour market” actually means because I gave up on school at a young age, I get the gist everything is pointing to wage inflation that means prolonging the inflation period. But Rishi under pressure to cancel those tax cuts, do the people like Starmer pushing this realise consequence is even more inflation hurting the everyday people he seeks to represent? And do IMF ever appreciate they are wasting their time suggesting what is politically difficult like bringing contentious tax hike forwards so suggest something doable?

The IMF don't have a clue about the real world.

If you have full employment and a million vacancies then you're not going to stifle wage inflation with tax rises.

Instead workers will demand higher wages to make up for the higher taxes.

That makes sense to me thanks 👍🏻

What do they mean by tight Labour market, I would have guessed a million vacancies means slack.

Toms

JosiasJessop said:

On another note, Putin has just put another nail into Russia's space program. Already in deep trouble and riven with corruption, it is doubtful that commercial customers and NASA will be flocking to their door. China will gain little from partnering with them, having already caught up with Russia.

A program with a stellar history and massive potential has been on life support for some time. It is quite possible that their manned program will end in the next few years, especially with the end of the ISS coming up. They will not probably no have a destination to send crew to.

As for what happens with the International Space Station: who knows? The project was one of the schemes the US used to keep Russia on side after 1989 (initially with the Shuttle-MIR program), so it may be one of the last to go.

As a great terrorist---he must have been pleased with Brexit (divide & conquer and all that)---I expect he's more interested in developing hypersonic missiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jj-PaqFrBc

BlancheLivermore

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

I heard a recording of a Ukrainian comedian who's currently hiding in his basement. He wants a gun to fight the Russians with, but there aren't enough guns. He said there were huge queues for them.

Puts the German munitions ban in context compared to their hugely significant suspension of future project NS2. They could be saving Ukrainian lives NOW, but they refused.

Leon

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

The cost of victory for Putin is going to keep rising but he's committed now. Difficult to see a way out for him.

Yes, the one thing Putin CANNOT afford to do is lose. That ends his career and possibly his life. He has to "pacify" Ukraine and make sure there is a pro-Putin government in Kiev. But this might be impossibly expensive, in the medium term, in men and money, if the Ukrainians resist like the Iraqis or the Afghans

And why should they not resist in this manner? They are being bombed in their own homes, just like the Afghans and Iraqis.

At the same time the West will be briskly arming Ukrainian insurgents, this time knowing that these guys are DEFINITELY on our side

It is a recipe for a hideous, intractable insurgency, which Russia will deeply regret

Richard_Tyndall

FPT due to the new thread trap.

dixiedean said:

Andy_JS said:

"David Gauke
@DavidGauke
How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

Quote Tweet
Nigel Farage
@Nigel_Farage
· 6h
Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

These are dark days for Europe.
1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

Farage needs calling out for what he is.
It would be pretty handy if it wasn't the usual suspects doing it.

Well I have no voice or standing compared to Gauke but I am certainly not one of the usual suspects and I would agree that Farage is behaving like a fuckwit and what he is doing - or rather saying - is close to treasonous. You don't give succour to the enemy in a time of war and for better or worse that is where we are now.

ydoethur

Stuartinromford said:

Sean_F said:

It takes a lot of guts to demonstrate against Putin. They are very brave men and women.

It's hopelessly naive to think that this is 1990 redux. But that rally in Bucharest just before Christmas (you know, the one where Ceaușescu got jeered for the first time, maybe ever, and suddenly turned into a confused old man) is one of the defining images of my lifetime.

I'd blooming love it to happen again.

It happened to Lukashenko:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/17/belarus-opposition-calls-for-general-strike-after-biggest-protests-yet

Alas, the follow up where he gets shot appears to have been indefinitely delayed.

StuartDickson

tlg86 said:

In the Blair Brown series, Alastair Campbell has a theory on demos. It’s something like if 10 people turn up, then 100 people thought about going. It was in the context of the Iraq demo (as in, if a million turned up a lot more thought about going).

Good rule of thumb.

Many years ago, when studying business, we were told to value customer complaints. They are like gold: essential intelligence. For every one customer who complains, there are about 50 who had the same problem but didn’t contact you.

Sean_F

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT due to the new thread trap.

dixiedean said:

Andy_JS said:

"David Gauke
@DavidGauke
How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

Quote Tweet
Nigel Farage
@Nigel_Farage
· 6h
Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

These are dark days for Europe.
1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

Farage needs calling out for what he is.
It would be pretty handy if it wasn't the usual suspects doing it.

Well I have no voice or standing compared to Gauke but I am certainly not one of the usual suspects and I would agree that Farage is behaving like a fuckwit and what he is doing - or rather saying - is close to treasonous. You don't give succour to the enemy in a time of war and for better or worse that is where we are now.

And, I would second that.

another_richard

Stuartinromford said:

Sean_F said:

It takes a lot of guts to demonstrate against Putin. They are very brave men and women.

It's hopelessly naive to think that this is 1990 redux. But that rally in Bucharest just before Christmas (you know, the one where Ceaușescu got jeered for the first time, maybe ever, and suddenly turned into a confused old man) is one of the defining images of my lifetime.

I'd blooming love it to happen again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcRWiz1PhKU

BlancheLivermore

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT due to the new thread trap.

dixiedean said:

Andy_JS said:

"David Gauke
@DavidGauke
How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

Quote Tweet
Nigel Farage
@Nigel_Farage
· 6h
Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

These are dark days for Europe.
1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

Farage needs calling out for what he is.
It would be pretty handy if it wasn't the usual suspects doing it.

Well I have no voice or standing compared to Gauke but I am certainly not one of the usual suspects and I would agree that Farage is behaving like a fuckwit and what he is doing - or rather saying - is close to treasonous. You don't give succour to the enemy in a time of war and for better or worse that is where we are now.

I compared Corbyn favourably to him earlier.

I don't think I've ever done that to Corbyn with anyone else.

ydoethur

There is a certain irony that yesterday Russia tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/RussiaUN/status/1496623763722579975

And also an irony that today there have been numerous pro-Ukraine demonstrations in Israel, including outside the Russian embassy in Tel Aviv.

At this moment, however, the West has achieved one objective - they have forced Putin to invade without a casus belli.

Shame that was a minor objective compared to stopping the actual fecking war.

kle4

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw

I'm going to guess that somewhere right now an american GOPer is tweeting 'See, if everyone had a gun all the time everything would be fine!' then say something about their right to carry an assault rifle to kindergarten.

Follow the thread and you'll see you are exactly right

Depressing, but it's a rare occurence for me so I'll take it.

another_richard

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT due to the new thread trap.

dixiedean said:

Andy_JS said:

"David Gauke
@DavidGauke
How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

Quote Tweet
Nigel Farage
@Nigel_Farage
· 6h
Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

These are dark days for Europe.
1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

Farage needs calling out for what he is.
It would be pretty handy if it wasn't the usual suspects doing it.

Well I have no voice or standing compared to Gauke but I am certainly not one of the usual suspects and I would agree that Farage is behaving like a fuckwit and what he is doing - or rather saying - is close to treasonous. You don't give succour to the enemy in a time of war and for better or worse that is where we are now.

Farage seems to have descended ever deeper into the madder extremes of the American right.

I doubt he even believes what he spouts but cannot do without the cheering of cultists.

EPG

BlancheLivermore said:

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

I heard a recording of a Ukrainian comedian who's currently hiding in his basement. He wants a gun to fight the Russians with, but there aren't enough guns. He said there were huge queues for them.

Puts the German munitions ban in context compared to their hugely significant suspension of future project NS2. They could be saving Ukrainian lives NOW, but they refused.

I mean, good as it would be, it would be killing people later rather than saving lives now. The weight of Russian casualties in this gangster's calculus is rougly zero.

MaxPB

Looks like Ukrainian forces have indeed taken the airport back. That's a potential gamechanger, will be very difficult for Russia to fly in big numbers of ground forces now.

StuartDickson

Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

kle4

StuartDickson said:

tlg86 said:

In the Blair Brown series, Alastair Campbell has a theory on demos. It’s something like if 10 people turn up, then 100 people thought about going. It was in the context of the Iraq demo (as in, if a million turned up a lot more thought about going).

Good rule of thumb.

Many years ago, when studying business, we were told to value customer complaints. They are like gold: essential intelligence. For every one customer who complains, there are about 50 who had the same problem but didn’t contact you.

Same principle to encourage people to ask what they think might be stupid questions in meetings etc.

WhisperingOracle

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

The cost of victory for Putin is going to keep rising but he's committed now. Difficult to see a way out for him.

Yes, the one thing Putin CANNOT afford to do is lose. That ends his career and possibly his life. He has to "pacify" Ukraine and make sure there is a pro-Putin government in Kiev. But this might be impossibly expensive, in the medium term, in men and money, if the Ukrainians resist like the Iraqis or the Afghans

And why should they not resist in this manner? They are being bombed in their own homes, just like the Afghans and Iraqis.

At the same time the West will be briskly arming Ukrainian insurgents, this time knowing that these guys are DEFINITELY on our side

It is a recipe for a hideous, intractable insurgency, which Russia will deeply regret

It's not the decision of a particularly balanced mind, I don't think. He could have much more easily secured the eastern areas and then a land corridor all the way across the black sea coast to moldova. That's arguably all the key strategic areas Russia could want in Ukraine , and also the areas tending towards slightly more sympathetic populations.

MaxPB

It would be absolutely glorious if the Ukrainians are able to hold Putin off for long enough for the west to get significant anti aircraft and tank busters to them.

StuartDickson

Average UK energy bills could hit £3,000 a year.

kle4

StuartDickson said:

Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

Seems like a pretty open and shut case.

kle4

MaxPB said:

Looks like Ukrainian forces have indeed taken the airport back. That's a potential gamechanger, will be very difficult for Russia to fly in big numbers of ground forces now.

It's day 1 though. But hopefully he is finding it tougher going than he thought.

BigRich

ydoethur said:

Stuartinromford said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

Although in that very specific case I would point out our own government is not really in a position to lecture, having recently said we can't state opinions, in response to a factual statement that the PM is a liar.

In doing so, they have ordered us, in effect, to stop teaching history, political science, theology and economics, insofar as we still could after the epic clusterfuck they have made of exam reform.

As against that, Blower is herself a lying, stupid c*** who makes Johnson look like George Washington, and in common with most people in Unite against Fascism is a card-carrying fascist, so I agree with the general thrust of your comment.

(By the way, she was head of one of five teachers' unions, not 'head of the teachers' union.)

Ok, my mistake. Have they not since all merged? I lose track.

No. The NUT (which she led, but after she had left) merged with the ATL on the back of a lot of malicious propaganda that even RT would blench at.

But Nasuwt, the Voice and the ASCL are all still independent.

It was an odd marriage. ATL was (just about) a proper union, but never felt like one. I remember a strange school meeting which boiled down to "we've voted to strike, does anyone know what we're meant to do next?"

Shame it went.

It was a forced takeover. And a disgusting one. I sent so many furious protests about the lies they were telling in terms of how effective the merged union would be that they forget to send me my ballot. Then they were rather green when they got my letter of resignation, judging by the rather snide reply I got.

But the ATL was backed into a position where for various reasons it didn't have a lot of choice in the matter.

You will not have been the only one who left, when the merger happened! looking at the information of the Trade union Certification office. the ATL had 153,093 members and the NUT had 338,033 members in 2018 but after the union the the NEU was left with 436,051 members, which by my maths is 55,072 members less.

Do you mind me asking what were the reasons the ATL did not have much chose?

Mexicanpete

StuartDickson said:

Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.

Leon

WhisperingOracle said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

The cost of victory for Putin is going to keep rising but he's committed now. Difficult to see a way out for him.

Yes, the one thing Putin CANNOT afford to do is lose. That ends his career and possibly his life. He has to "pacify" Ukraine and make sure there is a pro-Putin government in Kiev. But this might be impossibly expensive, in the medium term, in men and money, if the Ukrainians resist like the Iraqis or the Afghans

And why should they not resist in this manner? They are being bombed in their own homes, just like the Afghans and Iraqis.

At the same time the West will be briskly arming Ukrainian insurgents, this time knowing that these guys are DEFINITELY on our side

It is a recipe for a hideous, intractable insurgency, which Russia will deeply regret

It's not the decision of a particularly balanced mind, I don't think. He could have much more easily secured the eastern areas and even a land corridor all the way across the black sea coast to moldova. That's arguably they key strategic areas for Russia.

Someone on Twitter said that, for Putin, it is a kind of Holy War. He's ex-KGB, he felt the humiliation of Glasnost and 1989 and the break-up of the Soviet Union on a deep, personal level. I believe he truly despises communism but he is also a Greater Russian Patriot. The grand Tsarist empire/nation was felled and dismembered, it is his personal mission to restore the pride - and provinces

It is very similar to what the Chinese - especially Xi - feel about Hong Kong and Taiwan. The "century of humiliation" is a great wound which much be salved by Chinese military supremacy and restored territory.

Trouble is for Putin he has few of the resources of Xi and in the Ukraine he has probably bitten off way more than he can chew. Because he is unbalanced. You could see it in that rant. And now in the French reports of his behaviour with Macron

Toms

kle4 said:

MaxPB said:

Looks like Ukrainian forces have indeed taken the airport back. That's a potential gamechanger, will be very difficult for Russia to fly in big numbers of ground forces now.

It's day 1 though. But hopefully he is finding it tougher going than he thought.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/a-short-history-of-the-winter-war

StuartDickson

MustaphaMondeo said:

Andy_JS said:

Andrew Marr in the New Statesman.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2022/02/londons-response-to-vladimir-putin-is-pathetically-inadequate

"blah blah cut blah blah
Putin is a Napoleonic figure, a giant from our pasts.
cut...
"

Andrew Marr is some sort of comedy lickspittle. That 'great man' wank is embarrassing.

Putin suffers from a fragile masculinity and is nothing special. The world has lots of men with toxic attitudes. The fact that Russia was ripe to be colonised by that sort of tosser is regrettable and partially our fault.

We here in the UK have also been colonised by a tosser and the Tory Party should be just as ashamed of their choices as the West ought to be after its thoughtless corruption by crony capitalism of post Gorbachov Russia.

Johnson is our Chamberlain. Well done! chaps.

You’ll fit in just fine around here.

mwadams

WhisperingOracle said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw


The Ukrainians are not gonna give up easy. This could be Stalingrad for Putin. I kind of hope it is, tho of course one also regrets every single death

The idea he can briskly go in and install his puppet government and leave in short order is bonkers. Many are going to die

The cost of victory for Putin is going to keep rising but he's committed now. Difficult to see a way out for him.

Yes, the one thing Putin CANNOT afford to do is lose. That ends his career and possibly his life. He has to "pacify" Ukraine and make sure there is a pro-Putin government in Kiev. But this might be impossibly expensive, in the medium term, in men and money, if the Ukrainians resist like the Iraqis or the Afghans

And why should they not resist in this manner? They are being bombed in their own homes, just like the Afghans and Iraqis.

At the same time the West will be briskly arming Ukrainian insurgents, this time knowing that these guys are DEFINITELY on our side

It is a recipe for a hideous, intractable insurgency, which Russia will deeply regret

It's not the decision of a particularly balanced mind, I don't think. He could have much more easily secured the eastern areas and then a land corridor all the way across the black sea coast to moldova. That's arguably all the key strategic areas Russia could want in Ukraine.

Is it possible that Putin's actions are something of a last-ditch attempt to save himself from home-grown wolves? We don't get much Kremlinology these days.

BlancheLivermore

Has everyone seen this? I hope Vlad sees it before it's too late..

AnnaLynne McCord
@IAMannalynnemcc
Dear Mister President Vladimir Putin…
https://twitter.com/IAMannalynnemcc/status/1496877541772062727

Chameleon

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1496905869983768581

Angle from above of the big crowd in St. Petersberg.

Meanwhile in Moscow 'Glory to Ukraine' rings out among ukrainian flags.

https://twitter.com/natiqmalikzada/status/1496926894993788945

Would be deliciously ironic if Putin started his own Euromaiden by trying to reverse the results of thee last one.

In great news, Ukraine have recaptured the airbase near Kyiv: https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1496949071810027532 but a massive airdrop is expected tonight, potentially including 20-50 tanks, but so far it seems like they're encountering much more resistance than expected.

ydoethur

BigRich said:

ydoethur said:

Stuartinromford said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

One of the Stop The War (let Putin run all over Europe branch) signatures was Christine Blower. Former head of the teachers union!

Vlad would literally happily shoot teachers for spreading facts not lies. See Pol Pot for reference.

These people make me sick.

Although in that very specific case I would point out our own government is not really in a position to lecture, having recently said we can't state opinions, in response to a factual statement that the PM is a liar.

In doing so, they have ordered us, in effect, to stop teaching history, political science, theology and economics, insofar as we still could after the epic clusterfuck they have made of exam reform.

As against that, Blower is herself a lying, stupid c*** who makes Johnson look like George Washington, and in common with most people in Unite against Fascism is a card-carrying fascist, so I agree with the general thrust of your comment.

(By the way, she was head of one of five teachers' unions, not 'head of the teachers' union.)

Ok, my mistake. Have they not since all merged? I lose track.

No. The NUT (which she led, but after she had left) merged with the ATL on the back of a lot of malicious propaganda that even RT would blench at.

But Nasuwt, the Voice and the ASCL are all still independent.

It was an odd marriage. ATL was (just about) a proper union, but never felt like one. I remember a strange school meeting which boiled down to "we've voted to strike, does anyone know what we're meant to do next?"

Shame it went.

It was a forced takeover. And a disgusting one. I sent so many furious protests about the lies they were telling in terms of how effective the merged union would be that they forget to send me my ballot. Then they were rather green when they got my letter of resignation, judging by the rather snide reply I got.

But the ATL was backed into a position where for various reasons it didn't have a lot of choice in the matter.

You will not have been the only one who left, when the merger happened! looking at the information of the Trade union Certification office. the ATL had 153,093 members and the NUT had 338,033 members in 2018 but after the union the the NEU was left with 436,051 members, which by my maths is 55,072 members less.

Do you mind me asking what were the reasons the ATL did not have much chose?

Its membership was going down, partly due to aggressive recruitment tactics from the NUTters, and it had financial difficulties partly as a result (also due to poor management).

It could have survived but it would have been tricky, and once the leadership had been guaranteed five year extensions to their tenures without anything so sordid as a vote, nobody was able to organise a fight.

Theuniondivvie

kle4 said:

Leon said:

It could - will? - get extremely fucking nasty very quickly

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
11m
BREAKING: Ukraine's interior minister announces 10,000 automatic rifles have been distributed to civilians in Kyiv

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1496945541296832512?s=20&t=6Rfm9hXC3UfBwTm1UpEpNw

I'm going to guess that somewhere right now an american GOPer is tweeting 'See, if everyone had a gun all the time everything would be fine!' then say something about their right to carry an assault rifle to kindergarten.

I know there some really big James O'Brien fans on here so apologies for over exciting you.
Steve Bannon thinks Ukraine is all about the toilets. Very sound on lavvies is Vlad.

LBC
@LBC
James O'Brien: As a real war breaks out these vampires like Steve Bannon continue their culture war banging on about 'woke' gender-neutral toilets.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1496835440455950339?s=20&t=FzCRoi1jcEMxtBiPToaEyA

Leon

Whole towns burning

https://twitter.com/YWNReporter/status/1496953140805046273?s=20&t=l7mySqTy_-T8p5w8TnoK8Q


There are multiple views of this fighting, it appears to be real and happening now

Gardenwalker

Mexicanpete said:

StuartDickson said:

Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.

What a surprise.
Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?

Richard_Tyndall

Mexicanpete said:

StuartDickson said:

Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.

Sorry but that is garbage, Who in their right mind thought that a UK citizen living in the EU would retain voting rights there once we had left? If that was one of the 'Brexit incumbencies' you have been railing against then you are quite possibly mad.

Leon

Gardenwalker said:

Mexicanpete said:

StuartDickson said:

Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.

What a surprise.
Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?

Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free

Gardenwalker

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

Mexicanpete said:

StuartDickson said:

Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.

What a surprise.
Has a single Brexit claim been validated/vindicated?

Yes, if we Brexit, we Brexit. And the EU has no legal power over us. That is all it ever needed to be, and it is glorious to be free

Almost Keatsian.

ydoethur

MaxPB said:

It would be absolutely glorious if the Ukrainians are able to hold Putin off for long enough for the west to get significant anti aircraft and tank busters to them.

It would be good as well if they were able to hold off Putin for long enough to overthrow Tokayev and Lukashenko.

Now that would be very karmic, although I imagine cold comfort to the Ukrainians.

StuartDickson

Mexicanpete said:

StuartDickson said:

Britons living in EU can’t keep pre-Brexit rights, European court advised
Blow to UK nationals as advocate general finds against Alice Bouilliez, who objected to losing voting rights

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/24/britons-living-in-eu-cant-keep-pre-brexit-rights-european-court-advised

I kept being corrected earlier this year by PB Brexiteers that advised me if I wanted to retire to the EU there were few Brexit incumbetences I would encounter. I knew then they were talking ****, but I bowed to wiser heads. It turns out they were wrong after all.

One of the nicest things about being an EU citizen is that I can pick and choose my pleasant retirement idyll. So many fine properties on the market. Cheers Nige!