Is it just me, but I didn’t like that address at all.
“ And I say to the Ukrainians - in this moment of agony we are with you we are praying for you and your families and we are on your side. And if the months ahead are grim, and the flame of freedom burns low, I know that it will blaze bright again in Ukraine because, for all his bombs and tanks and missiles, I don’t believe that the Russian dictator will ever subdue the national feeling of the Ukrainians and their passionate belief that their country should be free.”
Boris own handcrafted Churchillian moment? We shall fight them with our prayers, as we lay on our beaches this summer.
Biggest baddest sanction package ever (yeah right) looks so weak doesn’t it, compared to Putin’s military mission statement “kill all Ukrainian Nazi’s.” And the horrors inflicted on everyday people of Ukraine 😕
Sounds like you object more to the messenger than the message?
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
Surely the Baltic States are easy pickings, NATO or not. Then Gotland.
Tobias Elwood had Ukraine right. Our (the West) hand wringing "but Ukraine isn't in NATO" is such an error.
James Cleverly was so hamstrung on 5Live. We have had at least eight years to plan. Have we planned?
We were obsessed with climate change and covid, to the mighty applause of yourself and most people on here.
If anybody had pointed out that we needed to beef up security in the east and maybe not spend quite so much on furlough, you would have sh8t your nappy.
When have I been guilty of anything you have accused me of in your post?
I have agreed with Tobias Elwood, only to be told, "but Ukraine are not a NATO member state, we have to abide by the Minsk Accord".
Yes, he's said if he was in charge this never would have happened and Biden is a poopy pants old man
What Trump would have done I don't know.
But its certainly true that Obama was weak and that Biden doesn't look any better.
Hilary would likely have taken a harder line than either.
You only have to read what Trump has said in the last few days to know what he would have done. He has praised Putin's aggression. Trump would love to be able to behave like Putin if he thought he could get away with it.
My guess is that Putin will wait till his mate is back in the White House in a couple of years before making any move in the Baltic States. It will be a dark day indeed for the west if Trump and his acolytes engineer a win in 2024
Putin had four years to invade on Trump's watch.
He did not.
Are you really telling me with a straight face that the US response to invasion of Ukraine would have been tougher if Trump had been in charge?
Russia has had an amazing 18 months financially because Covid killed oil and gas drilling, particularly in the US. That sent resources prices through the roof, and gave Putin the financial breathing room to invade. If oil prices had been $30 and gas prices $5, then Russia would not have had the financial wherewithal.
It was oil and gas prices, not Trump, that prevented an invasion under his watch.
Putin did not invade whilst Trump was President. He had four years to do it. Much of the American media claimed Trump was in Putin's pocket, surely all he had to do was ask. And in truth oil prices have only spiked very recently, up until the last few months the price has been, meh.
Trump merely pointed out that Putin was clever. Looking at what's gone on, are you seriously claiming he isn't? his assessment of where the West is is pretty spot on. No resources for a fight and no stomach either.
Our governments have fatally underestimated Putin. Trump isn't making that mistake, at least.
You literally just repeated yourself, while addressing exactly none of my point.
For most of Trump's time as President, Putin couldn't invade. He needed a time when the Russian foreign reserves were strong, debt was low and the trade balance wide. He needed to be in a position where he could afford to sit out sanctions.
Russia's break even price on oil is about $55. Between 2016 and 2020 the price of oil was... ooohhh... between $50 and $60. The price of gas was even lower.
Now, Russia's wasn't starving with those prices, but nor could it afford a major adventure.
In the last 18 months, the price of oil & gas has gone through the roof. This meant that the Russian exports increased from about $280bn to $400bn, and meant Russia now has the reserves to weather sanctions.
This has literally nothing at all to do with Trump, and everything to do with financial reality.
Yes, he's said if he was in charge this never would have happened and Biden is a poopy pants old man
What Trump would have done I don't know.
But its certainly true that Obama was weak and that Biden doesn't look any better.
Hilary would likely have taken a harder line than either.
You only have to read what Trump has said in the last few days to know what he would have done. He has praised Putin's aggression. Trump would love to be able to behave like Putin if he thought he could get away with it.
My guess is that Putin will wait till his mate is back in the White House in a couple of years before making any move in the Baltic States. It will be a dark day indeed for the west if Trump and his acolytes engineer a win in 2024
Putin had four years to invade on Trump's watch.
He did not.
Signifies nothing. The rise of Trump has divided and weakened the US significantly. Putin will be very keen on him continuing his work, preferably from the position of President again.
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
We have the Scots Guards, motto 'We Kicked the Tsar's Arse'. Surely they're worth a couple of Russian divisions?
I see you are trolling for Putin today. Supporting the world's dictators, in the not very noble tradition of Scottish Nationalism
Scottish Nationalists would generally prefer to be a colony of Putin's Russia than in the UK, so no surprise
No, they wouldn't. You only need to look at the FM's comments in recent days to know that the SNP are completely in line with all other major UK parties against Putin's aggression. If you're going to score cheapo points over this, at least try to ground them in reality.
The mass evacuations are not only happening in Ukraine. Apparently the whole of South Western Russia is in complete panic: all airports closed, all trains fully-booked and roads clogged with traffic out.
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
If you combine the UK, French, German, Italian, Polish, Turkish and Spanish armed forces then they are bigger than the Russian military together even if they are not alone.
That is why NATO remains vital and must send reinforcements to Poland and the Baltic states now, ideally with US and Canadian support too
I do wonder if the Russian elite are suffering from the same delusions as the Chinese do wrt Taiwan.
Most Chinese think that the Taiwanese are anxious for reunification, and it's only their evil/duplicitous leaders who are opposed. They think that, if Chinese troops landed in Taipei, they would be welcomed with flowers and open arms.
Does Putin think that - once inside the bosom of Mother Russia - 44 million Ukrainians will finally find happiness?
The reality, of course, is that Russians only outnumber Ukrainians 3-to-1. That means a lot of the resources of the Russian state will be needed to occupy and pacify the country.
I don't see how that ends well for either Ukraine or Russia.
We need to make it another Afghanistan for the Kremlin to the point that it brings down Putin, due to the endless cost and body bags.
He's probably mates with an oligarch who's fortune comes from body bags.
There was a report a couple of days ago of them ordering 45,000 body bags. Perhaps they're expecting to use them for Ukrainian soldiers or people on their dissident lists, but it doesn't strike me as the action of a regime expecting an easy fight.
The Ukrainian army is having more success in holding the Russians back at a few points then I had expected. This isn't over yet.
Where are you hearing that?
Commentary from a former Ukraine defence minister in the Guardian: ...There are thrusts taking place. They are quite close to the city of Kherson now. The situation is really critical there. They are also trying to surround Kharkiv. It seems like Kharkiv at the moment is the main target. They also try to get to Kyiv using one battlefield group. The group went from Belarus and it was stopped. There’s quite a bad road [to Kyiv]. It was strange that they sent such a small group on such a road. Clearly it was miscalculation on their side for the moment. There were some Russian losses and on our side. Ukrainian armed forces are fighting quite seriously. There is no panic. There are attempts to resist and in many directions it’s working out....
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
We have the Scots Guards, motto 'We Kicked the Tsar's Arse'. Surely they're worth a couple of Russian divisions?
I see you are trolling for Putin today. Supporting the world's dictators, in the not very noble tradition of Scottish Nationalism
Scottish Nationalists would generally prefer to be a colony of Putin's Russia than in the UK, so no surprise
No, they wouldn't. You only need to look at the FM's comments in recent days to know that the SNP are completely in line with all other major UK parties against Putin's aggression. If you're going to score cheapo points over this, at least try to ground them in reality.
The embodiment of Scottish Nationalism/separatism is Alex Salmond. That isn't a cheapo point. He is a Putin apologist. Scottish Nationalists should be ashamed.
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
We have the Scots Guards, motto 'We Kicked the Tsar's Arse'. Surely they're worth a couple of Russian divisions?
I see you are trolling for Putin today. Supporting the world's dictators, in the not very noble tradition of Scottish Nationalism
Scottish Nationalists would generally prefer to be a colony of Putin's Russia than in the UK, so no surprise
No, they wouldn't. You only need to look at the FM's comments in recent days to know that the SNP are completely in line with all other major UK parties against Putin's aggression. If you're going to score cheapo points over this, at least try to ground them in reality.
The FM is not really a hardline Scottish Nationalist, hence she has ruled out UDI from the UK.
The hardline Scottish Nationalists who want independence at all costs, some of whom are in Alba with Salmond now, certainly would prefer to unite with Putin than the UK.
I’m not even sure what point he is trying to make, or why. Or anything
It seems to be a pure example of clueless, irrelevant virtue-signalling. A vain, silly man sees a war and decides to get loads of likes by trotting out vapid anti-nuke sentiment, apparently unaware of how bitterly misguided the statement is, in this situation
He seems to think that our nuclear deterrent is supposed to be universal. I suspect he's just grasping for a way to make it all about us and our irrelevance.
Robert Peston does the same here with this crass tweet where the "grim reality" is not the human suffering, but the idea that Britain might not have a seat at the table:
@Peston Prime minister will soon make an address to the nation on the crisis in Ukraine. But the grim reality is that the important decisions will be taken by Washington and the Berlin/Paris axis https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1496781653347389440
"Grim reality". lol. WTAF. And he's a senior journalist
As for "the Berlin/Paris" axis - Paris tried, for the greater glory of France (and, er, peace) to get Putin to backdown and did it in a dramatic style which now looks laughably naive, and meanwhile Berlin is the capital that closed down its nuke power so it could be solely dependant on Russia for energy, and has only supplied Ukraine with three duvets and a tin helmet to defend itself
Somehow I don't think the poor Ukrainians will be relying on "the Berlin/Paris axis". For anything. That is the "grim reality"
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
As ever I’m hoping the Yanks come to Europe’s rescue again.
They won't if Trump's back in power.
I hate to tell you this, but he won't be president for nearly three years. It's all on Biden.
Some small relief in these troubled times!
Biden is quite predictable. We can guess how he will react to things. The great thing about Trump was that he was unpredictable. So foreign leaders were slightly wary of doing anything - they had no idea what the reaction of the USA was going to be. Unfortunately, nor did we. His unpredictability was at best a mixed blessing.
Yes, he's said if he was in charge this never would have happened and Biden is a poopy pants old man
What Trump would have done I don't know.
But its certainly true that Obama was weak and that Biden doesn't look any better.
Hilary would likely have taken a harder line than either.
You only have to read what Trump has said in the last few days to know what he would have done. He has praised Putin's aggression. Trump would love to be able to behave like Putin if he thought he could get away with it.
My guess is that Putin will wait till his mate is back in the White House in a couple of years before making any move in the Baltic States. It will be a dark day indeed for the west if Trump and his acolytes engineer a win in 2024
Putin had four years to invade on Trump's watch.
He did not.
Are you really telling me with a straight face that the US response to invasion of Ukraine would have been tougher if Trump had been in charge?
Russia has had an amazing 18 months financially because Covid killed oil and gas drilling, particularly in the US. That sent resources prices through the roof, and gave Putin the financial breathing room to invade. If oil prices had been $30 and gas prices $5, then Russia would not have had the financial wherewithal.
It was oil and gas prices, not Trump, that prevented an invasion under his watch.
Putin did not invade whilst Trump was President. He had four years to do it. Much of the American media claimed Trump was in Putin's pocket, surely all he had to do was ask. And in truth oil prices have only spiked very recently, up until the last few months the price has been, meh.
Trump merely pointed out that Putin was clever. Looking at what's gone on, are you seriously claiming he isn't? his assessment of where the West is is pretty spot on. No resources for a fight and no stomach either.
Our governments have fatally underestimated Putin. Trump isn't making that mistake, at least.
You literally just repeated yourself, while addressing exactly none of my point.
For most of Trump's time as President, Putin couldn't invade. He needed a time when the Russian foreign reserves were strong, debt was low and the trade balance wide. He needed to be in a position where he could afford to sit out sanctions.
Russia's break even price on oil is about $55. Between 2016 and 2020 the price of oil was... ooohhh... between $50 and $60. The price of gas was even lower.
Now, Russia's wasn't starving with those prices, but nor could it afford a major adventure.
In the last 18 months, the price of oil & gas has gone through the roof. This meant that the Russian exports increased from about $280bn to $400bn, and meant Russia now has the reserves to weather sanctions.
This has literally nothing at all to do with Trump, and everything to do with financial reality.
Oil prices have only been above 60 for less than a year, and the price plunge in 2020 ( under zero at one point) must have hammered Russia so badly that to claim the recent upswing has paid for that and more is surely fanciful.
Worth remembering that Ukraine had more nuclear weapons than Britain until they unilaterally disarmed. Had they not unilaterally disarmed, Putin would never have invaded.
Good, short and simple speech by Johnson - and good to have Putin outright called a dictator.
Taking the long view, the most chilling outcome of all of this has to be the proliferation of nuclear weapons. If you have them, why would you give them up? If you don't have them, why would you trust a western nuclear power to go to war on your behalf, or guarantee your territorial integrity? The early conclusion from this horrible attack from Putin is that if you don't have nukes, start building them.
Unless you're a Scot Nat, who will somehow derive from this tragedy that giving up Trident is an even better idea than before, because, er, its SNP policy and that can never be wrong? Or something?
Is it just me, but I didn’t like that address at all.
“ And I say to the Ukrainians - in this moment of agony we are with you we are praying for you and your families and we are on your side. And if the months ahead are grim, and the flame of freedom burns low, I know that it will blaze bright again in Ukraine because, for all his bombs and tanks and missiles, I don’t believe that the Russian dictator will ever subdue the national feeling of the Ukrainians and their passionate belief that their country should be free.”
Boris own handcrafted Churchillian moment? We shall fight them with our prayers, as we lay on our beaches this summer.
Biggest baddest sanction package ever (yeah right) looks so weak doesn’t it, compared to Putin’s military mission statement “kill all Ukrainian Nazi’s.” And the horrors inflicted on everyday people of Ukraine 😕
Sounds like you object more to the messenger than the message?
No. It was always going to look weak wasn’t it - Mad Dog Putin like a Arkan in Ukraine whilst the West squabble wether or not to add SWIFT to beef up the biggest baddest sanctions ever? I feel so sad and frustrated! 😕
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
We have the Scots Guards, motto 'We Kicked the Tsar's Arse'. Surely they're worth a couple of Russian divisions?
I see you are trolling for Putin today. Supporting the world's dictators, in the not very noble tradition of Scottish Nationalism
Scottish Nationalists would generally prefer to be a colony of Putin's Russia than in the UK, so no surprise
No, they wouldn't. You only need to look at the FM's comments in recent days to know that the SNP are completely in line with all other major UK parties against Putin's aggression. If you're going to score cheapo points over this, at least try to ground them in reality.
The embodiment of Scottish Nationalism/separatism is Alex Salmond. That isn't a cheapo point. He is a Putin apologist. Scottish Nationalists should be ashamed.
Salmond is a disgrace, Sturgeon's clearly got this right. We can argue pointlessly over who "embodies" what, but from a purely electoral point of view, Sturgeon is mainstream and these days Salmond is basically alone in the wilderness. You're talking about two people who are political and personal enemies who have very recently fought an election. If you want to portray the winner of that election as fringe and the loser as emblematic, then you are quite out of touch.
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
As ever I’m hoping the Yanks come to Europe’s rescue again.
They won't if Trump's back in power.
I hate to tell you this, but he won't be president for nearly three years. It's all on Biden.
Some small relief in these troubled times!
Biden is quite predictable. We can guess how he will react to things. The great thing about Trump was that he was unpredictable. So foreign leaders were slightly wary of doing anything - they had no idea what the reaction of the USA was going to be. Unfortunately, nor did we. His unpredictability was at best a mixed blessing.
I have a feeling Putin knew rather too much about how Trump might respond to anything.
Is it just me, but I didn’t like that address at all.
“ And I say to the Ukrainians - in this moment of agony we are with you we are praying for you and your families and we are on your side. And if the months ahead are grim, and the flame of freedom burns low, I know that it will blaze bright again in Ukraine because, for all his bombs and tanks and missiles, I don’t believe that the Russian dictator will ever subdue the national feeling of the Ukrainians and their passionate belief that their country should be free.”
Boris own handcrafted Churchillian moment? We shall fight them with our prayers, as we lay on our beaches this summer.
Biggest baddest sanction package ever (yeah right) looks so weak doesn’t it, compared to Putin’s military mission statement “kill all Ukrainian Nazi’s.” And the horrors inflicted on everyday people of Ukraine 😕
All bullshit. Why do so many people sound like they're having such fun?
I've heard about five people talking about this with no heroics or hyperbole and none are British politicians.
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
As ever I’m hoping the Yanks come to Europe’s rescue again.
They won't if Trump's back in power.
I hate to tell you this, but he won't be president for nearly three years. It's all on Biden.
Some small relief in these troubled times!
Biden is quite predictable. We can guess how he will react to things. The great thing about Trump was that he was unpredictable. So foreign leaders were slightly wary of doing anything - they had no idea what the reaction of the USA was going to be. Unfortunately, nor did we. His unpredictability was at best a mixed blessing.
What did trump do that was unpredictable in foreign relations?
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
We have the Scots Guards, motto 'We Kicked the Tsar's Arse'. Surely they're worth a couple of Russian divisions?
I see you are trolling for Putin today. Supporting the world's dictators, in the not very noble tradition of Scottish Nationalism
Scottish Nationalists would generally prefer to be a colony of Putin's Russia than in the UK, so no surprise
No, they wouldn't. You only need to look at the FM's comments in recent days to know that the SNP are completely in line with all other major UK parties against Putin's aggression. If you're going to score cheapo points over this, at least try to ground them in reality.
The FM is not really a hardline Scottish Nationalist, hence she has ruled out UDI from the UK.
The hardline Scottish Nationalists who want independence at all costs, some of whom are in Alba with Salmond now, certainly would prefer to unite with Putin than the UK.
I like it when you double down on the rash things you say. It's refreshing to see someone as energetically wrong as you, as it makes everyone else on here look so much better by comparison.
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
As ever I’m hoping the Yanks come to Europe’s rescue again.
They won't if Trump's back in power.
I hate to tell you this, but he won't be president for nearly three years. It's all on Biden.
Some small relief in these troubled times!
Biden is quite predictable. We can guess how he will react to things. The great thing about Trump was that he was unpredictable. So foreign leaders were slightly wary of doing anything - they had no idea what the reaction of the USA was going to be. Unfortunately, nor did we. His unpredictability was at best a mixed blessing.
I have a feeling Putin knew rather too much about how Trump might respond to anything.
They had a weird relationship. It was almost like Putin the dominatrix and Trump the client. You know what I mean?
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
I think he's playing join the dots. He wants Ukraine to join up to Transdnistria (sp?). So - Lithuania, to join up to Kaliningrad. (I'm inferring everyone now pretty much sees Belarus as part of Putin's empire). It would be very helpful for him strategically to have an ice-free Baltic port (that isn't in an exclave). In reality, all the Baltics, because why not?
Yes, that's how I tend to see it. Certainly Moldova is a goner. Bessarabia! Excellent wine! The Baltics I am not so sure. NATO and EU members. That's a profound line to cross and even if Crazy Cat Putin is keen to do it, I am sure his military will be less gung-ho
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
We have the Scots Guards, motto 'We Kicked the Tsar's Arse'. Surely they're worth a couple of Russian divisions?
I see you are trolling for Putin today. Supporting the world's dictators, in the not very noble tradition of Scottish Nationalism
Scottish Nationalists would generally prefer to be a colony of Putin's Russia than in the UK, so no surprise
No, they wouldn't. You only need to look at the FM's comments in recent days to know that the SNP are completely in line with all other major UK parties against Putin's aggression. If you're going to score cheapo points over this, at least try to ground them in reality.
The embodiment of Scottish Nationalism/separatism is Alex Salmond. That isn't a cheapo point. He is a Putin apologist. Scottish Nationalists should be ashamed.
Salmond is a disgrace, Sturgeon's clearly got this right. We can argue pointlessly over who "embodies" what, but from a purely electoral point of view, Sturgeon is mainstream and these days Salmond is basically alone in the wilderness. You're talking about two people who area political and personal enemies who have very recently fought an election. If you want to portray the winner of that election as fringe and the loser as emblematic, then you are quite out of touch.
The reality is that the history of Scottish Nationalism is a disgrace. It was largely founded by a man who was a stated Anglophobe and fascist; a man that Scottish Nationalists still venerate without any blushes. It has had links with despots and fascists and Salmond's links with Putin via RT is just the latest example.
Confirmed by Ukrainian authorities. A large air assault operation with Mi-8 helicopters on Antonov International Airport in Hostomel. Interior Ministry says Russia has seized control. Very dangerous; it’s just 15 minutes west of the capital ring road.
That is quite astonishing - how the fuck do you fly you choppers over 100km of hostile terrain and seize an airport. What has the Ukrainian military being doing?
They've been fighting around Kharkiv, and have stopped a land advance from Belarus to Kyiv, while most of the army is in the Donbas.
They're outnumbered and being attacked on multiple fronts. It's not surprising the Russians have made it through.
1. We already know Boris is not good in a crisis. I do not understand why Tory MPs are keeping him in place.
2. I think we are past the point where sanctions are going to resolve the crisis. I'd rather the government was talking about arming Ukraine, rearmament of UK forces, and NATO expansion. The last defence review can now be binned.
Except taxes are already at the highest in 70 years because of the damage of lockdown. Borrowing skyrocketed and we are soon to be told to give up our boilers and petrol cars and make other privations to achieve net zero.There are already shortages of oil and gas and these are set to get worse because of drilling bans.
Thanks to our government and opposition, we are in no fit state to fight Putin. He knows this. He may be evil personified, but like Trump says, stupid he is not. Know your enemy.
Note to young Misty,
Please replace the word highlighted with the pandemic and resubmit your work.
Cheers, Mr Chips.
Misty's right.
If we'd not had a lockdown, then there'd have been a surge of deaths as the virus ripped through society, but the economic impact would have been vastly reduced. On a cold, unfeeling cash flow analysis it could possibly even perversely the pandemic could have been good for the Treasury had it been left to rip since those it would have killed are a drain on the Exchequer because of pensions and healthcare and the fact they're not working.
You might think the cost of lockdown was worth paying to save lives, that's fair enough, but the cost is lockdown. It is utterly dishonest to say otherwise.
PS there would have been some economic damage either way due to the fact people voluntarily shelter in a pandemic even without lockdown being mandatory, but it would have been greatly reduced.
Fwiw it is hard to see how freezing the assets of a few Russian plutocrats, no matter how corrupt, is likely to influence Putin in the slightest. It is just going through the motions.
Exactly. We need to hammer the pillars of the Russian economy: oil and gas exports, financial flows, foreign accounts and real estate.
We should be maximising our own oil and gas production as quickly as possible, and helping to supply the rest of Europe if possible. Time to ignore green squeals for the greater good.
Yes, although it would also be good to crank up wind and tidal.
What is the lead time on a) exploiting new UK oil and gas fields and b) new wind/tidal coming onstream? I don't imagine either are quick, though a strikes me as quicker than b.
The best thing in my view about wind and solar and tidal wasn't the greenness; it was freeing ourselves from dependency on some quite dodgy countries.
I was thinking primarily about increasing production from existing wells and reopening any that have been mothballed. Long term, I agree about increasing wind, tidal and wave.
Relentless optimist that I am if Putin succeeds with his invasion of Ukraine then where will he go next?
We have to deter him from going further.
That’s what I was thinking
Time to fast track those nations in to NATO.
Send in a few armoured and mechanised infantry divisions there.
a few is all that the UK and European members have.... the UK has 1 deployable division and even that is tenuous.
As ever I’m hoping the Yanks come to Europe’s rescue again.
They won't if Trump's back in power.
I hate to tell you this, but he won't be president for nearly three years. It's all on Biden.
Some small relief in these troubled times!
Biden is quite predictable. We can guess how he will react to things. The great thing about Trump was that he was unpredictable. So foreign leaders were slightly wary of doing anything - they had no idea what the reaction of the USA was going to be. Unfortunately, nor did we. His unpredictability was at best a mixed blessing.
I have a feeling Putin knew rather too much about how Trump might respond to anything.
They had a weird relationship. It was almost like Putin the dominatrix and Trump the client. You know what I mean?
1. We already know Boris is not good in a crisis. I do not understand why Tory MPs are keeping him in place.
2. I think we are past the point where sanctions are going to resolve the crisis. I'd rather the government was talking about arming Ukraine, rearmament of UK forces, and NATO expansion. The last defence review can now be binned.
Except taxes are already at the highest in 70 years because of the damage of lockdown. Borrowing skyrocketed and we are soon to be told to give up our boilers and petrol cars and make other privations to achieve net zero.There are already shortages of oil and gas and these are set to get worse because of drilling bans.
Thanks to our government and opposition, we are in no fit state to fight Putin. He knows this. He may be evil personified, but like Trump says, stupid he is not. Know your enemy.
Note to young Misty,
Please replace the word highlighted with the pandemic and resubmit your work.
Cheers, Mr Chips.
Misty's right.
If we'd not had a lockdown, then there'd have been a surge of deaths as the virus ripped through society, but the economic impact would have been vastly reduced. On a cold, unfeeling cash flow analysis it could possibly even perversely the pandemic could have been good for the Treasury had it been left to rip since those it would have killed are a drain on the Exchequer because of pensions and healthcare and the fact they're not working.
You might think the cost of lockdown was worth paying to save lives, that's fair enough, but the cost is lockdown. It is utterly dishonest to say otherwise.
PS there would have been some economic damage either way due to the fact people voluntarily shelter in a pandemic even without lockdown being mandatory, but it would have been greatly reduced.
Nope, absolutely the wrong way around.
Economic damage is worsened if you don't react. The cheapest amount of restrictions is neither "none" nor "all" but "as much as you need to avoid catastrophe"
Without the NPIs and restrictions, things would have been far worse.
It's like complaining that a plaster cast on a broken arm stops you from doing things. It's not down to the plaster cast but the broken arm. Had it been allowed to rip through and collapse the healthcare system, not only would the death toll have shot up massively (including amongst considerably younger people - remember that more than half of those who went into ICU were under sixty; without healthcare, they would certainly have died), but businesses would have collapsed without help from the Treasury as (as you allude) people shelter in desperation and without assistance.
No; it's long been known that it wasn't a trade off between health and economy; they were inextricably interlinked.
"blah blah cut blah blah Putin is a Napoleonic figure, a giant from our pasts. cut... "
Andrew Marr is some sort of comedy lickspittle. That 'great man' wank is embarrassing.
Putin suffers from a fragile masculinity and is nothing special. The world has lots of men with toxic attitudes. The fact that Russia was ripe to be colonised by that sort of tosser is regrettable and partially our fault.
We here in the UK have also been colonised by a tosser and the Tory Party should be just as ashamed of their choices as the West ought to be after its thoughtless corruption by crony capitalism of post Gorbachov Russia.
Comments
I have agreed with Tobias Elwood, only to be told, "but Ukraine are not a NATO member state, we have to abide by the Minsk Accord".
For most of Trump's time as President, Putin couldn't invade. He needed a time when the Russian foreign reserves were strong, debt was low and the trade balance wide. He needed to be in a position where he could afford to sit out sanctions.
Russia's break even price on oil is about $55. Between 2016 and 2020 the price of oil was... ooohhh... between $50 and $60. The price of gas was even lower.
Now, Russia's wasn't starving with those prices, but nor could it afford a major adventure.
In the last 18 months, the price of oil & gas has gone through the roof. This meant that the Russian exports increased from about $280bn to $400bn, and meant Russia now has the reserves to weather sanctions.
This has literally nothing at all to do with Trump, and everything to do with financial reality.
Is it possible to do the same with Russia?
Obviously not via the UNSC but via other means?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_boycott_of_South_Africa_during_the_apartheid_era
Now lock Vince in a wardrobe before he ruins this surge.
If you're going to score cheapo points over this, at least try to ground them in reality.
The only unreal thing is that they seem to be napalming empty farmland and marshes?
That is why NATO remains vital and must send reinforcements to Poland and the Baltic states now, ideally with US and Canadian support too
...There are thrusts taking place. They are quite close to the city of Kherson now. The situation is really critical there. They are also trying to surround Kharkiv. It seems like Kharkiv at the moment is the main target. They also try to get to Kyiv using one battlefield group. The group went from Belarus and it was stopped. There’s quite a bad road [to Kyiv]. It was strange that they sent such a small group on such a road. Clearly it was miscalculation on their side for the moment. There were some Russian losses and on our side. Ukrainian armed forces are fighting quite seriously. There is no panic. There are attempts to resist and in many directions it’s working out....
Bloomberg
The hardline Scottish Nationalists who want independence at all costs, some of whom are in Alba with Salmond now, certainly would prefer to unite with Putin than the UK.
As for "the Berlin/Paris" axis - Paris tried, for the greater glory of France (and, er, peace) to get Putin to backdown and did it in a dramatic style which now looks laughably naive, and meanwhile Berlin is the capital that closed down its nuke power so it could be solely dependant on Russia for energy, and has only supplied Ukraine with three duvets and a tin helmet to defend itself
Somehow I don't think the poor Ukrainians will be relying on "the Berlin/Paris axis". For anything. That is the "grim reality"
Unfortunately, nor did we. His unpredictability was at best a mixed blessing.
FACT: Prices hit as high as 75 under Trump.
We can argue pointlessly over who "embodies" what, but from a purely electoral point of view, Sturgeon is mainstream and these days Salmond is basically alone in the wilderness.
You're talking about two people who are political and personal enemies who have very recently fought an election. If you want to portray the winner of that election as fringe and the loser as emblematic, then you are quite out of touch.
I've heard about five people talking about this with no heroics or hyperbole and none are British politicians.
He was completely predictable.
They're outnumbered and being attacked on multiple fronts. It's not surprising the Russians have made it through.
Economic damage is worsened if you don't react. The cheapest amount of restrictions is neither "none" nor "all" but "as much as you need to avoid catastrophe"
Without the NPIs and restrictions, things would have been far worse.
It's like complaining that a plaster cast on a broken arm stops you from doing things. It's not down to the plaster cast but the broken arm.
Had it been allowed to rip through and collapse the healthcare system, not only would the death toll have shot up massively (including amongst considerably younger people - remember that more than half of those who went into ICU were under sixty; without healthcare, they would certainly have died), but businesses would have collapsed without help from the Treasury as (as you allude) people shelter in desperation and without assistance.
No; it's long been known that it wasn't a trade off between health and economy; they were inextricably interlinked.
And those are missile decoy flares, not napalm.
Putin suffers from a fragile masculinity and is nothing special. The world has lots of men with toxic attitudes. The fact that Russia was ripe to be colonised by that sort of tosser is regrettable and partially our fault.
We here in the UK have also been colonised by a tosser and the Tory Party should be just as ashamed of their choices as the West ought to be after its thoughtless corruption by crony capitalism of post Gorbachov Russia.
Johnson is our Chamberlain. Well done! chaps.