Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
Strangely, I don't think Russia is bothered by NATO. NATO exists to oppose Russia. It makes Russia important, which is what Putin cares about. Particularly as NATO won't actually do anything directly against Russia.
Ukraine's relationship with the EU is the bigger issue and what kicked this whole thing off. The EU normalises countries and is supranational. There is no role for Putin's Russia in the EU's world view.
Having a country in what Putin and many other Russians regard as "Greater Russia" in which democracy, the rule of law, freedom of expression and free press, etc,, prevail would be bitter gall and wormwood to the Kremlin. Russians would soon draw their own conclusions and wonder why they are stuck with a repressive kleptocracy. I think this explains the thinking a lot. Basically self-preservation. Probably also explains Chinese approach to Hong Kong.
Yes, this is what makes sense to me. It's not about Ukraine NATO membership (as such) it's about their membership of the club of free and prosperous democracies. Therefore the main overall aim of the Putin muscle flexing was to set back their progress towards this. With a side benefit of Russia (him) centre stage for lots of talks and diplomacy, reminding the West of its (his) potent presence, and also maybe playing well at home. So that would be a win, although it doesn't mean a loss for the US/EU since it looks like they played it well. So far anyway. I guess this is all a bit premature.
In Greater Russian Nationalism, the West/Europe has a non-Russian and therefore BAD culture. Being assimilated into European culture would be The End OF Russia to such a view point.
Sounds rather like the 'great replacement' type sentiment you hear in certain places, or the islamic extremism you hear in certain other places. All this Clash of Cultures stuff. So ridiculous. But disturbingly seductive to many.
On the Great Replacement theme I can highly recommend the Louis Theroux doc on iPlayer where he meets with young alt right guys in the US. Fcking terrifying really how much reach their crazy ideas have.
So racist even the most un-woke like I probably am will be pretty gobsmacked.
There is a guy called Nick Fuentes who is seriously a young Hitler. The most bonkers thing is that he’s banging on about racial purity and that the US is English and Christian blah blah blah and you want Theroux to ask him “ok so you are of Spanish/Italian immigrant stock - are you ‘lesser’ than the WASPS you hold as the untermensch?” And secondly, when he’s banging on about no immigrants to the US does he not get that he and all his followers who aren’t Native American are immigrants who’ve ruined the country for original settlers!
I also don’t get their beef with Jews. But like I said it’s actually really worrying what’s been unleashed by social media combined with Trump - at the end I just thought “Trump seriously has a lot to answer for” it really rammed home the divisions he’s unleashed.
Well said.
(Be careful @Leon doesn't add you to his 'Wokelist' though! 😉)
I’m sure Leon would agree on watching that you can be “un-woke” and disgusted by the open clear unthinking racism these guys display.
Also you don’t have to be woke to think their desire that women shouldn’t work or vote is beyond dumb. Really really stupid, intellectually basic, nasty racist virgins with a massive following thanks to the internet.
If Biden doesn't want Nord Stream 2, as in really, really not want it, then the Germans would have to like that. And they know it.
The American leverage of imposing financial sanctions is massive. And shitting on Deutsche Bank would be a very., very popular move in the US.
It’s not often I think you are missing something important Malmsy, but how about this: think of what is coming down the 2 pipes as being heroin. Biden said to the EU junkies, you are not going back to “the supplier” for more. Instead of agreeing with Biden, Our continental cousins thought Biden an impractical idiot. And yesterday Boris repeated to Europe what Biden had told them.
In my Ukraine Crisis analysis big post Sunday night I made comparison of what Putin is doing here with Lady Thatcher and the Miners strike in 1980’s. Lady Thatcher won the strike, but a big part of winning the conflict was the planning before hand building up the coal stocks and other ways not to be dependent on miners digging coal - so if miners decided to strike they would be starved back to work.
I think these two allegory work, because in the diplomatic battle for desired outcomes here, such as agreement on sanctions, Washington prefers those pipelines turned off, Moscow happy to have them on.
Do you see what I am trying to say? Am I wrong.
That’s a really beautiful still image btw. Look at that Putin and weep 😉
From what I can tell, Europe including Germany can just about manage without Russian gas. It is certainly going to cost, but as things stand Europe is paying twice as much for its energy this year compared with last. Those high fossil fuel prices will drive the transition to green faster than anything.
Governments with electorates fear high fuel prices but if forced they will work out other means. Russia is on a losing path in the medium term with piped gas. In the short term they are in clover due to the high prices even if they ship less, but this will accelerate their decline.
O/T I was pondering whether the hike in energy prices, with no real prospect of a future decline, has Hinkley Point C reached the point where it becomes economic?
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
They haven't fast tracked it. No-one in NATO is really talking about Ukraine joining. It is a permanent aspiration much like Turkey joining the EU.
This is for the same reason that Finland isn't a member - because it would be seen as too much of a provocation to Russia.
The "standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation" is not a lie, because it is possible to stand shoulder to shoulder with a nation without them joining NATO. Neither Sweden or Finland are in NATO - but no-one doubts that if they were attacked, that NATO would come to their aid.
What Putin has achieved with his build up etc is that Ukraine is now moved up the ranks of Friends Of NATO. Not quote to the level of Finland, which is so nearly in NATO that if someone sneezes.... But massively higher than it was.
Surely a big reason the US don't want Ukraine in NATO is they would then have to defend them militarily from a Russian attack - and as we see they are not prepared to do this.
The big reason is that actually accepting them for membership would cause the Greater Russian Nationalists to kick off even more than they have. It might even start the war we all don't want.
The main result from all of this is that Ukraine has moved massively up the Friends of NATO list - not quite to Swedish or Finish levels, but close.
Ok. But what about the reason I suggest? Isn't that also a big reason? Seems to me it likely is. I mean, imagine if they were in NATO now. The US would be on the hook to do what they clearly don't want to do.
I think more that (like adding Finland) it would be a kick off point for the Russians. An escalation.
Ok, so don't bring Ukraine into NATO because to do so might provoke Russia to attack it and if Russia attacks a NATO country the US must respond and we have a potential WW3 type situation. I think we are maybe saying the same thing in our different ways. Anyway, bottom line, what I think we agree on, Ukraine won't be joining NATO after this business and wouldn't have been before it. So it wasn't about NATO.
That's the rational view.
In the mindset of Greater Russian Nationalists, Mother Russia is *always* being encircled, attacked etc
To them, it's the incremental chomping away of NATO and the EU, taking pieces of the Sacred Russian Empire away - forever. That is the danger.
The idea, to them, that the West would stop.... it is contradictory to their world view. How can the enemy be stopped, unless by the Might of Mother Russia? The enemy can't just not attack...
AIUI, the real genius of Putin's annexation of Crimea was to preclude Ukraine from NATO membership (because states involved in border disputes are not eligible for application). The occupation in effect put Putin in charge of Ukraine's NATO eligibility.
So, the real 'war' Putin is engaged in with NATO is not one of land or tanks, but of ideas and influence. In the market of freedom of thought, he is losing that battle too. Hence his need to be opportunistic to achieve his ends through more nefarious means.
Growth in the Ukraine in recent years has been massively faster than Russia, more than 10% a year faster. Although GDP per capita is still only about 35% of Russian GDP the trend is strong. The main source of the trend is of course the opening up of EU markets to Ukraine which has encouraged significant inward capital investment. Russia sees a country that is swiftly becoming more western orientated and less dependent upon them.
So Putin is trying to chill Ukraine's economy and to reverse those trends. He makes investment in Ukraine unattractive and increases the brain drain as skilled, young people look for safer havens. He can achieve a lot of this without firing a bullet. And he has. But he is getting himself at the point where these threats become less credible. This is not a good thing, it increases the risk factors here.
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
Strangely, I don't think Russia is bothered by NATO. NATO exists to oppose Russia. It makes Russia important, which is what Putin cares about. Particularly as NATO won't actually do anything directly against Russia.
Ukraine's relationship with the EU is the bigger issue and what kicked this whole thing off. The EU normalises countries and is supranational. There is no role for Putin's Russia in the EU's world view.
Having a country in what Putin and many other Russians regard as "Greater Russia" in which democracy, the rule of law, freedom of expression and free press, etc,, prevail would be bitter gall and wormwood to the Kremlin. Russians would soon draw their own conclusions and wonder why they are stuck with a repressive kleptocracy. I think this explains the thinking a lot. Basically self-preservation. Probably also explains Chinese approach to Hong Kong.
Yes, this is what makes sense to me. It's not about Ukraine NATO membership (as such) it's about their membership of the club of free and prosperous democracies. Therefore the main overall aim of the Putin muscle flexing was to set back their progress towards this. With a side benefit of Russia (him) centre stage for lots of talks and diplomacy, reminding the West of its (his) potent presence, and also maybe playing well at home. So that would be a win, although it doesn't mean a loss for the US/EU since it looks like they played it well. So far anyway. I guess this is all a bit premature.
In Greater Russian Nationalism, the West/Europe has a non-Russian and therefore BAD culture. Being assimilated into European culture would be The End OF Russia to such a view point.
Sounds rather like the 'great replacement' type sentiment you hear in certain places, or the islamic extremism you hear in certain other places. All this Clash of Cultures stuff. So ridiculous. But disturbingly seductive to many.
On the Great Replacement theme I can highly recommend the Louis Theroux doc on iPlayer where he meets with young alt right guys in the US. Fcking terrifying really how much reach their crazy ideas have.
So racist even the most un-woke like I probably am will be pretty gobsmacked.
There is a guy called Nick Fuentes who is seriously a young Hitler. The most bonkers thing is that he’s banging on about racial purity and that the US is English and Christian blah blah blah and you want Theroux to ask him “ok so you are of Spanish/Italian immigrant stock - are you ‘lesser’ than the WASPS you hold as the untermensch?” And secondly, when he’s banging on about no immigrants to the US does he not get that he and all his followers who aren’t Native American are immigrants who’ve ruined the country for original settlers!
I also don’t get their beef with Jews. But like I said it’s actually really worrying what’s been unleashed by social media combined with Trump - at the end I just thought “Trump seriously has a lot to answer for” it really rammed home the divisions he’s unleashed.
Well said.
(Be careful @Leon doesn't add you to his 'Wokelist' though! 😉)
Speaking of which, Leon slipped a nice little "great replacement" nugget into a post the other day (I don’t expect this epiphany to happen anytime before the Chinese regime’s “Legal Enslavement of Whitey Act 2043”) and eight people liked it. Eight. I think a few people who frequent right-wing social media circles have just become so used to seeing that kind of thing that they don't notice it. It's normalised.
The post, by the way, was a critical response to a "the west is to blame for this Ukraine situation", which was a fair enough criticism. But when thinking about a largely white Europe and a largely white Russia, I don't even know how he managed to decide ethnicity was an issue. Leon truly is the Boris of this forum. Scratch the eloquent grandeur and underneath is a desiccated heart of bitter hatred that is frightening to glimpse. A thoroughly nasty piece of work.
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
Strangely, I don't think Russia is bothered by NATO. NATO exists to oppose Russia. It makes Russia important, which is what Putin cares about. Particularly as NATO won't actually do anything directly against Russia.
Ukraine's relationship with the EU is the bigger issue and what kicked this whole thing off. The EU normalises countries and is supranational. There is no role for Putin's Russia in the EU's world view.
Having a country in what Putin and many other Russians regard as "Greater Russia" in which democracy, the rule of law, freedom of expression and free press, etc,, prevail would be bitter gall and wormwood to the Kremlin. Russians would soon draw their own conclusions and wonder why they are stuck with a repressive kleptocracy. I think this explains the thinking a lot. Basically self-preservation. Probably also explains Chinese approach to Hong Kong.
Yes, this is what makes sense to me. It's not about Ukraine NATO membership (as such) it's about their membership of the club of free and prosperous democracies. Therefore the main overall aim of the Putin muscle flexing was to set back their progress towards this. With a side benefit of Russia (him) centre stage for lots of talks and diplomacy, reminding the West of its (his) potent presence, and also maybe playing well at home. So that would be a win, although it doesn't mean a loss for the US/EU since it looks like they played it well. So far anyway. I guess this is all a bit premature.
In Greater Russian Nationalism, the West/Europe has a non-Russian and therefore BAD culture. Being assimilated into European culture would be The End OF Russia to such a view point.
Sounds rather like the 'great replacement' type sentiment you hear in certain places, or the islamic extremism you hear in certain other places. All this Clash of Cultures stuff. So ridiculous. But disturbingly seductive to many.
On the Great Replacement theme I can highly recommend the Louis Theroux doc on iPlayer where he meets with young alt right guys in the US. Fcking terrifying really how much reach their crazy ideas have.
So racist even the most un-woke like I probably am will be pretty gobsmacked.
There is a guy called Nick Fuentes who is seriously a young Hitler. The most bonkers thing is that he’s banging on about racial purity and that the US is English and Christian blah blah blah and you want Theroux to ask him “ok so you are of Spanish/Italian immigrant stock - are you ‘lesser’ than the WASPS you hold as the untermensch?” And secondly, when he’s banging on about no immigrants to the US does he not get that he and all his followers who aren’t Native American are immigrants who’ve ruined the country for original settlers!
I also don’t get their beef with Jews. But like I said it’s actually really worrying what’s been unleashed by social media combined with Trump - at the end I just thought “Trump seriously has a lot to answer for” it really rammed home the divisions he’s unleashed.
Well said.
(Be careful @Leon doesn't add you to his 'Wokelist' though! 😉)
I’m sure Leon would agree on watching that you can be “un-woke” and disgusted by the open clear unthinking racism these guys display.
Also you don’t have to be woke to think their desire that women shouldn’t work or vote is beyond dumb. Really really stupid, intellectually basic, nasty racist virgins with a massive following thanks to the internet.
Well indeed; I was of course being tongue-in-cheek.
Where the line is crossed between the common decency of not being racist, sexist, homophobic etc., and 'wokism' is surely in the eye of the beholder.
Poor dome head Scholz head must be freezing 🥶 has he not been paying any attention to how to do the big Kremlin photo op!
The thing to look for is where he sits. Everyone else has been the length of a cricket pitch away from Putin at the other end of that huge table. If this is the case here too we can probably conclude the final diplomatic push by Germany has failed and it's war. But - and let's hope this is what we do see - if the two men sit cheek by jowl, all cosy, at one end of the table, maybe even with Putin's arm draped casually around the back of Scholz's chair, then it could be that a compromise has been reached.
The problem with that post Kin, he appears to use even longer tables with his own cabinet?
Ah now that is true. Bizarre really. Tbh, for all the geopolitics that is rightly chewed over, I wonder - as Dura Ace does - how much of what he wanted from all this was on the personal level, ie about feeding Big Important Man syndrome. In which case having sundry Western leaders jetting over to Moscow and sitting there in supplication at that huge long table has probably done the trick. It's a Win.
I just think Putin is paranoid about getting Covid.
That's what I hear, yes. Quite common for these 'Strongmen' types to be terrified of germs. I think what it might be is that having got yourself to a position in life with a whole country to basically play with, you become highly risk averse personally, because (i) you are having a ball and are desperate to prolong it to the max and (ii) you start to believe your own myth about being a person of immense importance and crucial to the nation, thus must do everything in your power to avoid illness and death.
I wonder if psychologically strong men also suffer from Trump's revulsion and fear of illness as a sign of personal weakness.
Certainly, it is in all strongmen's interest not to be seen as vulnerable (given how many enemies they'll have made along the way), and disease, particularly one as potentially severe as COVID, makes one vulnerable.
It was noted by the Ancient Greeks that Tyrants would dye their beards (and similar measures) to appear not to be ageing or weak. This was mocked at the time...
Chinese leaders must get through a vat of hair dye every week
Poor dome head Scholz head must be freezing 🥶 has he not been paying any attention to how to do the big Kremlin photo op!
The thing to look for is where he sits. Everyone else has been the length of a cricket pitch away from Putin at the other end of that huge table. If this is the case here too we can probably conclude the final diplomatic push by Germany has failed and it's war. But - and let's hope this is what we do see - if the two men sit cheek by jowl, all cosy, at one end of the table, maybe even with Putin's arm draped casually around the back of Scholz's chair, then it could be that a compromise has been reached.
The problem with that post Kin, he appears to use even longer tables with his own cabinet?
Ah now that is true. Bizarre really. Tbh, for all the geopolitics that is rightly chewed over, I wonder - as Dura Ace does - how much of what he wanted from all this was on the personal level, ie about feeding Big Important Man syndrome. In which case having sundry Western leaders jetting over to Moscow and sitting there in supplication at that huge long table has probably done the trick. It's a Win.
Remember bond films had KGB in big offices, and the Brit big wigs in little cosy ones. It might just be a cultural thing than supplication technique. Lunchtime he probably sits on his own in there eating a burger!
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
They haven't fast tracked it. No-one in NATO is really talking about Ukraine joining. It is a permanent aspiration much like Turkey joining the EU.
This is for the same reason that Finland isn't a member - because it would be seen as too much of a provocation to Russia.
The "standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation" is not a lie, because it is possible to stand shoulder to shoulder with a nation without them joining NATO. Neither Sweden or Finland are in NATO - but no-one doubts that if they were attacked, that NATO would come to their aid.
What Putin has achieved with his build up etc is that Ukraine is now moved up the ranks of Friends Of NATO. Not quote to the level of Finland, which is so nearly in NATO that if someone sneezes.... But massively higher than it was.
Finland hasn't applied to join NATO, and spent the cold war (like Austria) being pretty close to the USSR.
Their closeness to the USSR was an interesting one - while they superficially claimed to be some version of neutral, everyone knew that invading Finland was a Day One move for the USSR, when/if the Big Mistake happened.
It was quite noticeable how fast that turned into practically-a-memeber-of-NATO at the end of the Cold War.
It’s not often I disagree with one of your knowledgable posts Malmsy, but
“ The "standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation" is not a lie, because it is possible to stand shoulder to shoulder with a nation without them joining NATO. Neither Sweden or Finland are in NATO - but no-one doubts that if they were attacked, that NATO would come to their aid. ”
That’s not a true comparison - we were just about to stand by and let Putin hang draw quarter and boil the head of Ukraines democracy, sovereignty, and right to political self determination weren’t we - allowing Russia to do this with military air superiority over the Ukraine nation.
Aside from military aid and sanctions that would seriously stuff up the Russia economy (more than it is in a mess now). Things like cutting off Nord Stream 2 - permanently.
If Americans had sent armoured divisions to Ukraine, this would have guaranteed war. Because at that point Putin would have been trapped by the Greater Russian Nationalists behind him.
Instead, we guaranteed that Russia would *regret* war. But could climb down.
Instead of "destroying the village to save it" we "guaranteed to fuck up anyone who pokes the village further"
So, hopefully, the Russian soldiers go home. Alive, and with all their limbs. And the Ukrainian soldiers can as well.
“ So, hopefully, the Russian soldiers go home. Alive, and with all their limbs. And the Ukrainian soldiers can as well.”
Yes that, but also all the everyday people don’t have to live in long time conflict zone or become refugee!
“ Aside from military aid ”. No air support. Russian have this Busty Brenda air support thing parked in Belarus NATO didn’t fancy tackling. 😕
“ and sanctions that would seriously stuff up the Russia economy (more than it is in a mess now). Things like cutting off Nord Stream 2 - permanently. “. Did you believe that spin? UK have had a chat with Jersey., but Was there consensus on that level of sanctions such as no to Nord 2 outside of Biden’s skull? The sanctions war would have hurt the British people too wouldn’t it, which UK government remained silent about so we should feel relieved today too? Maybe Putin pumps cheap gas into Europe as a loss leader for the diplomatic edge is gives him, splitting EU from agreeing to Washington sanction package, so this Ukraine crisis wasn’t spur of moment decision for Putin?
If Biden doesn't want Nord Stream 2, as in really, really not want it, then the Germans would have to like that. And they know it.
The American leverage of imposing financial sanctions is massive. And shitting on Deutsche Bank would be a very., very popular move in the US.
It’s not often I think you are missing something important Malmsy, but how about this: think of what is coming down the 2 pipes as being heroin. Biden said to the EU junkies, you are not going back to “the supplier” for more. Instead of agreeing with Biden, Our continental cousins thought Biden an impractical idiot. And yesterday Boris repeated to Europe what Biden had told them.
In my Ukraine Crisis analysis big post Sunday night I made comparison of what Putin is doing here with Lady Thatcher and the Miners strike in 1980’s. Lady Thatcher won the strike, but a big part of winning the conflict was the planning before hand building up the coal stocks and other ways not to be dependent on miners digging coal - so if miners decided to strike they would be starved back to work.
I think these two allegory work, because in the diplomatic battle for desired outcomes here, such as agreement on sanctions, Washington prefers those pipelines turned off, Moscow happy to have them on.
Do you see what I am trying to say? Am I wrong.
That’s a really beautiful still image btw. Look at that Putin and weep 😉
The issue of the pipelines is now more controversial than it was, in Germany, for example. Many people who would have waved it through on the grounds of cheap gas are seeing it very differently.
My friend who votes SDP, there, for example, who now refers to Gerhard Schröder in terms of being Putins puppet in a way that will get me banned if I say it literally.
Well on Sunday I did post this. “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
These things are now front and centre. This morning I posted this. “If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you? “
And in the first big press conference of his short term in power, Domehead Schultz has just mentioned the M word, this is what he said “It will be a political catastrophe if Minsk Protocols are not upheld”
Can you imagine Boris or Truss or Biden saying that? In my mind the only reaction to consider next in this astonishing statement from Schultz comes from Kiev. I don’t think they will entirely agree with him. But to what degree they disagree, suggesting open to movement or willing to negotiate is key now to the size of Putin’s carefully planned success here.
If Biden doesn't want Nord Stream 2, as in really, really not want it, then the Germans would have to like that. And they know it.
The American leverage of imposing financial sanctions is massive. And shitting on Deutsche Bank would be a very., very popular move in the US.
It’s not often I think you are missing something important Malmsy, but how about this: think of what is coming down the 2 pipes as being heroin. Biden said to the EU junkies, you are not going back to “the supplier” for more. Instead of agreeing with Biden, Our continental cousins thought Biden an impractical idiot. And yesterday Boris repeated to Europe what Biden had told them.
In my Ukraine Crisis analysis big post Sunday night I made comparison of what Putin is doing here with Lady Thatcher and the Miners strike in 1980’s. Lady Thatcher won the strike, but a big part of winning the conflict was the planning before hand building up the coal stocks and other ways not to be dependent on miners digging coal - so if miners decided to strike they would be starved back to work.
I think these two allegory work, because in the diplomatic battle for desired outcomes here, such as agreement on sanctions, Washington prefers those pipelines turned off, Moscow happy to have them on.
Do you see what I am trying to say? Am I wrong.
That’s a really beautiful still image btw. Look at that Putin and weep 😉
From what I can tell, Europe including Germany can just about manage without Russian gas. It is certainly going to cost, but as things stand Europe is paying twice as much for its energy this year compared with last. Those high fossil fuel prices will drive the transition to green faster than anything.
Governments with electorates fear high fuel prices but if forced they will work out other means. Russia is on a losing path in the medium term with piped gas. In the short term they are in clover due to the high prices even if they ship less, but this will accelerate their decline.
O/T I was pondering whether the hike in energy prices, with no real prospect of a future decline, has Hinkley Point C reached the point where it becomes economic?
Maybe. I'm not massively keen on nuclear power because it's too inflexible and too expensive. More precisely the toxicity of the material processed creates risks that ultimately must be translated into costs. If the cost of renewable energy gets so much cheaper than alternatives, which is the direction of travel, you can have massive redundancy where windmills etc can be idle most of the time. Alternatively investment moves into energy storage as energy generation becomes so cheap. There is probably a residual requirement for alternative generation for the foreseeable future, but I am not sure nuclear is the way to go on that.
Poor dome head Scholz head must be freezing 🥶 has he not been paying any attention to how to do the big Kremlin photo op!
The thing to look for is where he sits. Everyone else has been the length of a cricket pitch away from Putin at the other end of that huge table. If this is the case here too we can probably conclude the final diplomatic push by Germany has failed and it's war. But - and let's hope this is what we do see - if the two men sit cheek by jowl, all cosy, at one end of the table, maybe even with Putin's arm draped casually around the back of Scholz's chair, then it could be that a compromise has been reached.
The problem with that post Kin, he appears to use even longer tables with his own cabinet?
Ah now that is true. Bizarre really. Tbh, for all the geopolitics that is rightly chewed over, I wonder - as Dura Ace does - how much of what he wanted from all this was on the personal level, ie about feeding Big Important Man syndrome. In which case having sundry Western leaders jetting over to Moscow and sitting there in supplication at that huge long table has probably done the trick. It's a Win.
I just think Putin is paranoid about getting Covid.
That's what I hear, yes. Quite common for these 'Strongmen' types to be terrified of germs. I think what it might be is that having got yourself to a position in life with a whole country to basically play with, you become highly risk averse personally, because (i) you are having a ball and are desperate to prolong it to the max and (ii) you start to believe your own myth about being a person of immense importance and crucial to the nation, thus must do everything in your power to avoid illness and death.
I wonder if psychologically strong men also suffer from Trump's revulsion and fear of illness as a sign of personal weakness.
Certainly, it is in all strongmen's interest not to be seen as vulnerable (given how many enemies they'll have made along the way), and disease, particularly one as potentially severe as COVID, makes one vulnerable.
It was noted by the Ancient Greeks that Tyrants would dye their beards (and similar measures) to appear not to be ageing or weak. This was mocked at the time...
Chinese leaders must get through a vat of hair dye every week
If Biden doesn't want Nord Stream 2, as in really, really not want it, then the Germans would have to like that. And they know it.
The American leverage of imposing financial sanctions is massive. And shitting on Deutsche Bank would be a very., very popular move in the US.
It’s not often I think you are missing something important Malmsy, but how about this: think of what is coming down the 2 pipes as being heroin. Biden said to the EU junkies, you are not going back to “the supplier” for more. Instead of agreeing with Biden, Our continental cousins thought Biden an impractical idiot. And yesterday Boris repeated to Europe what Biden had told them.
In my Ukraine Crisis analysis big post Sunday night I made comparison of what Putin is doing here with Lady Thatcher and the Miners strike in 1980’s. Lady Thatcher won the strike, but a big part of winning the conflict was the planning before hand building up the coal stocks and other ways not to be dependent on miners digging coal - so if miners decided to strike they would be starved back to work.
I think these two allegory work, because in the diplomatic battle for desired outcomes here, such as agreement on sanctions, Washington prefers those pipelines turned off, Moscow happy to have them on.
Do you see what I am trying to say? Am I wrong.
That’s a really beautiful still image btw. Look at that Putin and weep 😉
From what I can tell, Europe including Germany can just about manage without Russian gas. It is certainly going to cost, but as things stand Europe is paying twice as much for its energy this year compared with last. Those high fossil fuel prices will drive the transition to green faster than anything.
Governments with electorates fear high fuel prices but if forced they will work out other means. Russia is on a losing path in the medium term with piped gas. In the short term they are in clover due to the high prices even if they ship less, but this will accelerate their decline.
O/T I was pondering whether the hike in energy prices, with no real prospect of a future decline, has Hinkley Point C reached the point where it becomes economic?
Maybe. I'm not massively keen on nuclear power because it's too inflexible and too expensive. More precisely the toxicity of the material processed creates risks that ultimately must be translated into costs. If the cost of renewable energy gets so much cheaper than alternatives, which is the direction of travel, you can have massive redundancy where windmills etc can be idle most of the time. Alternatively investment moves into energy storage as energy generation becomes so cheap. There is probably a residual requirement for alternative generation for the foreseeable future, but I am not sure nuclear is the way to go on that.
I'm not a supporter either but nothing is going to stop Hinkley C completing now so it would be a minor improvement if the energy produced was actually cheaper then the wholesale market.
As an aside, does anyone know if the strike prices agreed apply even if the market rate is higher? If so, the recent renewables will be subsidising the rest of the market rather than the other way round.
Shame the Tidal Barrage in the Bristol Channel never got the go ahead
Poor dome head Scholz head must be freezing 🥶 has he not been paying any attention to how to do the big Kremlin photo op!
The thing to look for is where he sits. Everyone else has been the length of a cricket pitch away from Putin at the other end of that huge table. If this is the case here too we can probably conclude the final diplomatic push by Germany has failed and it's war. But - and let's hope this is what we do see - if the two men sit cheek by jowl, all cosy, at one end of the table, maybe even with Putin's arm draped casually around the back of Scholz's chair, then it could be that a compromise has been reached.
The problem with that post Kin, he appears to use even longer tables with his own cabinet?
Ah now that is true. Bizarre really. Tbh, for all the geopolitics that is rightly chewed over, I wonder - as Dura Ace does - how much of what he wanted from all this was on the personal level, ie about feeding Big Important Man syndrome. In which case having sundry Western leaders jetting over to Moscow and sitting there in supplication at that huge long table has probably done the trick. It's a Win.
Remember bond films had KGB in big offices, and the Brit big wigs in little cosy ones. It might just be a cultural thing than supplication technique. Lunchtime he probably sits on his own in there eating a burger!
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
They haven't fast tracked it. No-one in NATO is really talking about Ukraine joining. It is a permanent aspiration much like Turkey joining the EU.
This is for the same reason that Finland isn't a member - because it would be seen as too much of a provocation to Russia.
The "standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation" is not a lie, because it is possible to stand shoulder to shoulder with a nation without them joining NATO. Neither Sweden or Finland are in NATO - but no-one doubts that if they were attacked, that NATO would come to their aid.
What Putin has achieved with his build up etc is that Ukraine is now moved up the ranks of Friends Of NATO. Not quote to the level of Finland, which is so nearly in NATO that if someone sneezes.... But massively higher than it was.
Finland hasn't applied to join NATO, and spent the cold war (like Austria) being pretty close to the USSR.
Their closeness to the USSR was an interesting one - while they superficially claimed to be some version of neutral, everyone knew that invading Finland was a Day One move for the USSR, when/if the Big Mistake happened.
It was quite noticeable how fast that turned into practically-a-memeber-of-NATO at the end of the Cold War.
It’s not often I disagree with one of your knowledgable posts Malmsy, but
“ The "standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation" is not a lie, because it is possible to stand shoulder to shoulder with a nation without them joining NATO. Neither Sweden or Finland are in NATO - but no-one doubts that if they were attacked, that NATO would come to their aid. ”
That’s not a true comparison - we were just about to stand by and let Putin hang draw quarter and boil the head of Ukraines democracy, sovereignty, and right to political self determination weren’t we - allowing Russia to do this with military air superiority over the Ukraine nation.
Aside from military aid and sanctions that would seriously stuff up the Russia economy (more than it is in a mess now). Things like cutting off Nord Stream 2 - permanently.
If Americans had sent armoured divisions to Ukraine, this would have guaranteed war. Because at that point Putin would have been trapped by the Greater Russian Nationalists behind him.
Instead, we guaranteed that Russia would *regret* war. But could climb down.
Instead of "destroying the village to save it" we "guaranteed to fuck up anyone who pokes the village further"
So, hopefully, the Russian soldiers go home. Alive, and with all their limbs. And the Ukrainian soldiers can as well.
“ So, hopefully, the Russian soldiers go home. Alive, and with all their limbs. And the Ukrainian soldiers can as well.”
Yes that, but also all the everyday people don’t have to live in long time conflict zone or become refugee!
“ Aside from military aid ”. No air support. Russian have this Busty Brenda air support thing parked in Belarus NATO didn’t fancy tackling. 😕
“ and sanctions that would seriously stuff up the Russia economy (more than it is in a mess now). Things like cutting off Nord Stream 2 - permanently. “. Did you believe that spin? UK have had a chat with Jersey., but Was there consensus on that level of sanctions such as no to Nord 2 outside of Biden’s skull? The sanctions war would have hurt the British people too wouldn’t it, which UK government remained silent about so we should feel relieved today too? Maybe Putin pumps cheap gas into Europe as a loss leader for the diplomatic edge is gives him, splitting EU from agreeing to Washington sanction package, so this Ukraine crisis wasn’t spur of moment decision for Putin?
If Biden doesn't want Nord Stream 2, as in really, really not want it, then the Germans would have to like that. And they know it.
The American leverage of imposing financial sanctions is massive. And shitting on Deutsche Bank would be a very., very popular move in the US.
It’s not often I think you are missing something important Malmsy, but how about this: think of what is coming down the 2 pipes as being heroin. Biden said to the EU junkies, you are not going back to “the supplier” for more. Instead of agreeing with Biden, Our continental cousins thought Biden an impractical idiot. And yesterday Boris repeated to Europe what Biden had told them.
In my Ukraine Crisis analysis big post Sunday night I made comparison of what Putin is doing here with Lady Thatcher and the Miners strike in 1980’s. Lady Thatcher won the strike, but a big part of winning the conflict was the planning before hand building up the coal stocks and other ways not to be dependent on miners digging coal - so if miners decided to strike they would be starved back to work.
I think these two allegory work, because in the diplomatic battle for desired outcomes here, such as agreement on sanctions, Washington prefers those pipelines turned off, Moscow happy to have them on.
Do you see what I am trying to say? Am I wrong.
That’s a really beautiful still image btw. Look at that Putin and weep 😉
The issue of the pipelines is now more controversial than it was, in Germany, for example. Many people who would have waved it through on the grounds of cheap gas are seeing it very differently.
My friend who votes SDP, there, for example, who now refers to Gerhard Schröder in terms of being Putins puppet in a way that will get me banned if I say it literally.
Well on Sunday I did post this. “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
These things are now front and centre. This morning I posted this. “If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you? “
And in the first big press conference of his short term in power, Domehead Schultz has just mentioned the M word, this is what he said “It will be a political catastrophe if Minsk Protocols are not upheld”
Can you imagine Boris or Truss or Biden saying that? In my mind the only reaction to consider next in this astonishing statement from Schultz comes from Kiev. I don’t think they will entirely agree with him. But to what degree they disagree, suggesting open to movement or willing to negotiate is key now to the size of Putin’s carefully planned success here.
The implementation of the Minsk protocols is like the various peace agreements in the former Yugoslavia - signed and then ignored.
Sure, there will be some renewed commitment to them. Which will mean exactly nothing happens on the ground.
Shehab Khan ITV@ShehabKhan·1mNEW: Prince Andrew and Virginia Giuffre have reached a "settlement in principle" in the civil sex claim filed in the US, court documents show, according to PA.
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
Strangely, I don't think Russia is bothered by NATO. NATO exists to oppose Russia. It makes Russia important, which is what Putin cares about. Particularly as NATO won't actually do anything directly against Russia.
Ukraine's relationship with the EU is the bigger issue and what kicked this whole thing off. The EU normalises countries and is supranational. There is no role for Putin's Russia in the EU's world view.
Having a country in what Putin and many other Russians regard as "Greater Russia" in which democracy, the rule of law, freedom of expression and free press, etc,, prevail would be bitter gall and wormwood to the Kremlin. Russians would soon draw their own conclusions and wonder why they are stuck with a repressive kleptocracy. I think this explains the thinking a lot. Basically self-preservation. Probably also explains Chinese approach to Hong Kong.
Yes, this is what makes sense to me. It's not about Ukraine NATO membership (as such) it's about their membership of the club of free and prosperous democracies. Therefore the main overall aim of the Putin muscle flexing was to set back their progress towards this. With a side benefit of Russia (him) centre stage for lots of talks and diplomacy, reminding the West of its (his) potent presence, and also maybe playing well at home. So that would be a win, although it doesn't mean a loss for the US/EU since it looks like they played it well. So far anyway. I guess this is all a bit premature.
In Greater Russian Nationalism, the West/Europe has a non-Russian and therefore BAD culture. Being assimilated into European culture would be The End OF Russia to such a view point.
Sounds rather like the 'great replacement' type sentiment you hear in certain places, or the islamic extremism you hear in certain other places. All this Clash of Cultures stuff. So ridiculous. But disturbingly seductive to many.
On the Great Replacement theme I can highly recommend the Louis Theroux doc on iPlayer where he meets with young alt right guys in the US. Fcking terrifying really how much reach their crazy ideas have.
So racist even the most un-woke like I probably am will be pretty gobsmacked.
There is a guy called Nick Fuentes who is seriously a young Hitler. The most bonkers thing is that he’s banging on about racial purity and that the US is English and Christian blah blah blah and you want Theroux to ask him “ok so you are of Spanish/Italian immigrant stock - are you ‘lesser’ than the WASPS you hold as the untermensch?” And secondly, when he’s banging on about no immigrants to the US does he not get that he and all his followers who aren’t Native American are immigrants who’ve ruined the country for original settlers!
I also don’t get their beef with Jews. But like I said it’s actually really worrying what’s been unleashed by social media combined with Trump - at the end I just thought “Trump seriously has a lot to answer for” it really rammed home the divisions he’s unleashed.
Well said.
(Be careful @Leon doesn't add you to his 'Wokelist' though! 😉)
Speaking of which, Leon slipped a nice little "great replacement" nugget into a post the other day (I don’t expect this epiphany to happen anytime before the Chinese regime’s “Legal Enslavement of Whitey Act 2043”) and eight people liked it. Eight. I think a few people who frequent right-wing social media circles have just become so used to seeing that kind of thing that they don't notice it. It's normalised.
The post, by the way, was a critical response to a "the west is to blame for this Ukraine situation", which was a fair enough criticism. But when thinking about a largely white Europe and a largely white Russia, I don't even know how he managed to decide ethnicity was an issue. Leon truly is the Boris of this forum. Scratch the eloquent grandeur and underneath is a desiccated heart of bitter hatred that is frightening to glimpse. A thoroughly nasty piece of work.
Nick Fuentes sounds ... peculiar. Feuding with Turning Point USA for being too liberal?
An irony is that one Great White Hope for American Christianity is probably Hispanic, given demographics and agnostic-drift. There are others.
If Biden doesn't want Nord Stream 2, as in really, really not want it, then the Germans would have to like that. And they know it.
The American leverage of imposing financial sanctions is massive. And shitting on Deutsche Bank would be a very., very popular move in the US.
It’s not often I think you are missing something important Malmsy, but how about this: think of what is coming down the 2 pipes as being heroin. Biden said to the EU junkies, you are not going back to “the supplier” for more. Instead of agreeing with Biden, Our continental cousins thought Biden an impractical idiot. And yesterday Boris repeated to Europe what Biden had told them.
In my Ukraine Crisis analysis big post Sunday night I made comparison of what Putin is doing here with Lady Thatcher and the Miners strike in 1980’s. Lady Thatcher won the strike, but a big part of winning the conflict was the planning before hand building up the coal stocks and other ways not to be dependent on miners digging coal - so if miners decided to strike they would be starved back to work.
I think these two allegory work, because in the diplomatic battle for desired outcomes here, such as agreement on sanctions, Washington prefers those pipelines turned off, Moscow happy to have them on.
Do you see what I am trying to say? Am I wrong.
That’s a really beautiful still image btw. Look at that Putin and weep 😉
From what I can tell, Europe including Germany can just about manage without Russian gas. It is certainly going to cost, but as things stand Europe is paying twice as much for its energy this year compared with last. Those high fossil fuel prices will drive the transition to green faster than anything.
Governments with electorates fear high fuel prices but if forced they will work out other means. Russia is on a losing path in the medium term with piped gas. In the short term they are in clover due to the high prices even if they ship less, but this will accelerate their decline.
O/T I was pondering whether the hike in energy prices, with no real prospect of a future decline, has Hinkley Point C reached the point where it becomes economic?
No nuclear power station on the planet has been built without massive state subsidy.
In the case of Hinkley C, it required £37 billion from government and consumers.
If you want reliable, waste-free, zero-carbon power paid for by the private sector at a 40% price discount to that required by nuclear.....
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
Strangely, I don't think Russia is bothered by NATO. NATO exists to oppose Russia. It makes Russia important, which is what Putin cares about. Particularly as NATO won't actually do anything directly against Russia.
Ukraine's relationship with the EU is the bigger issue and what kicked this whole thing off. The EU normalises countries and is supranational. There is no role for Putin's Russia in the EU's world view.
Having a country in what Putin and many other Russians regard as "Greater Russia" in which democracy, the rule of law, freedom of expression and free press, etc,, prevail would be bitter gall and wormwood to the Kremlin. Russians would soon draw their own conclusions and wonder why they are stuck with a repressive kleptocracy. I think this explains the thinking a lot. Basically self-preservation. Probably also explains Chinese approach to Hong Kong.
Yes, this is what makes sense to me. It's not about Ukraine NATO membership (as such) it's about their membership of the club of free and prosperous democracies. Therefore the main overall aim of the Putin muscle flexing was to set back their progress towards this. With a side benefit of Russia (him) centre stage for lots of talks and diplomacy, reminding the West of its (his) potent presence, and also maybe playing well at home. So that would be a win, although it doesn't mean a loss for the US/EU since it looks like they played it well. So far anyway. I guess this is all a bit premature.
In Greater Russian Nationalism, the West/Europe has a non-Russian and therefore BAD culture. Being assimilated into European culture would be The End OF Russia to such a view point.
Sounds rather like the 'great replacement' type sentiment you hear in certain places, or the islamic extremism you hear in certain other places. All this Clash of Cultures stuff. So ridiculous. But disturbingly seductive to many.
On the Great Replacement theme I can highly recommend the Louis Theroux doc on iPlayer where he meets with young alt right guys in the US. Fcking terrifying really how much reach their crazy ideas have.
So racist even the most un-woke like I probably am will be pretty gobsmacked.
There is a guy called Nick Fuentes who is seriously a young Hitler. The most bonkers thing is that he’s banging on about racial purity and that the US is English and Christian blah blah blah and you want Theroux to ask him “ok so you are of Spanish/Italian immigrant stock - are you ‘lesser’ than the WASPS you hold as the untermensch?” And secondly, when he’s banging on about no immigrants to the US does he not get that he and all his followers who aren’t Native American are immigrants who’ve ruined the country for original settlers!
I also don’t get their beef with Jews. But like I said it’s actually really worrying what’s been unleashed by social media combined with Trump - at the end I just thought “Trump seriously has a lot to answer for” it really rammed home the divisions he’s unleashed.
Well said.
(Be careful @Leon doesn't add you to his 'Wokelist' though! 😉)
Speaking of which, Leon slipped a nice little "great replacement" nugget into a post the other day (I don’t expect this epiphany to happen anytime before the Chinese regime’s “Legal Enslavement of Whitey Act 2043”) and eight people liked it. Eight. I think a few people who frequent right-wing social media circles have just become so used to seeing that kind of thing that they don't notice it. It's normalised.
The post, by the way, was a critical response to a "the west is to blame for this Ukraine situation", which was a fair enough criticism. But when thinking about a largely white Europe and a largely white Russia, I don't even know how he managed to decide ethnicity was an issue. Leon truly is the Boris of this forum. Scratch the eloquent grandeur and underneath is a desiccated heart of bitter hatred that is frightening to glimpse. A thoroughly nasty piece of work.
I didn't personally 'like' that post. But I don't see how those comments are anything to do with the "great replacement" theory and the people that advance it. Instead Leon was pointing out that the Chinese state are guilty of what - by our standards - is 'racism'. They do it with complete and absolute confidence and they get away with it with little more than a few murmers of displeasure. Whereas in modern Britain, probably the most successful multi racial society in history, people are consumed by guilt (racial or otherwise) to such a degree that they cannot see things clearly, like the existential danger to our way of life posed by China, or the fact that Russia is a dangerous aggressor. This type of thinking is characteristic of a civilisation in decline and retreat, and the idea that it could ultimately end up enslaved is not a joke - it has been the fate of many people before us.
If Biden doesn't want Nord Stream 2, as in really, really not want it, then the Germans would have to like that. And they know it.
The American leverage of imposing financial sanctions is massive. And shitting on Deutsche Bank would be a very., very popular move in the US.
It’s not often I think you are missing something important Malmsy, but how about this: think of what is coming down the 2 pipes as being heroin. Biden said to the EU junkies, you are not going back to “the supplier” for more. Instead of agreeing with Biden, Our continental cousins thought Biden an impractical idiot. And yesterday Boris repeated to Europe what Biden had told them.
In my Ukraine Crisis analysis big post Sunday night I made comparison of what Putin is doing here with Lady Thatcher and the Miners strike in 1980’s. Lady Thatcher won the strike, but a big part of winning the conflict was the planning before hand building up the coal stocks and other ways not to be dependent on miners digging coal - so if miners decided to strike they would be starved back to work.
I think these two allegory work, because in the diplomatic battle for desired outcomes here, such as agreement on sanctions, Washington prefers those pipelines turned off, Moscow happy to have them on.
Do you see what I am trying to say? Am I wrong.
That’s a really beautiful still image btw. Look at that Putin and weep 😉
From what I can tell, Europe including Germany can just about manage without Russian gas. It is certainly going to cost, but as things stand Europe is paying twice as much for its energy this year compared with last. Those high fossil fuel prices will drive the transition to green faster than anything.
Governments with electorates fear high fuel prices but if forced they will work out other means. Russia is on a losing path in the medium term with piped gas. In the short term they are in clover due to the high prices even if they ship less, but this will accelerate their decline.
O/T I was pondering whether the hike in energy prices, with no real prospect of a future decline, has Hinkley Point C reached the point where it becomes economic?
No nuclear power station on the planet has been built without massive state subsidy.
In the case of Hinkley C, it required £37 billion from government and consumers.
If you want reliable, waste-free, zero-carbon power paid for by the private sector at a 40% price discount to that required by nuclear.....
Poor dome head Scholz head must be freezing 🥶 has he not been paying any attention to how to do the big Kremlin photo op!
The thing to look for is where he sits. Everyone else has been the length of a cricket pitch away from Putin at the other end of that huge table. If this is the case here too we can probably conclude the final diplomatic push by Germany has failed and it's war. But - and let's hope this is what we do see - if the two men sit cheek by jowl, all cosy, at one end of the table, maybe even with Putin's arm draped casually around the back of Scholz's chair, then it could be that a compromise has been reached.
The problem with that post Kin, he appears to use even longer tables with his own cabinet?
Ah now that is true. Bizarre really. Tbh, for all the geopolitics that is rightly chewed over, I wonder - as Dura Ace does - how much of what he wanted from all this was on the personal level, ie about feeding Big Important Man syndrome. In which case having sundry Western leaders jetting over to Moscow and sitting there in supplication at that huge long table has probably done the trick. It's a Win.
Remember bond films had KGB in big offices, and the Brit big wigs in little cosy ones. It might just be a cultural thing than supplication technique. Lunchtime he probably sits on his own in there eating a burger!
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
They haven't fast tracked it. No-one in NATO is really talking about Ukraine joining. It is a permanent aspiration much like Turkey joining the EU.
This is for the same reason that Finland isn't a member - because it would be seen as too much of a provocation to Russia.
The "standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation" is not a lie, because it is possible to stand shoulder to shoulder with a nation without them joining NATO. Neither Sweden or Finland are in NATO - but no-one doubts that if they were attacked, that NATO would come to their aid.
What Putin has achieved with his build up etc is that Ukraine is now moved up the ranks of Friends Of NATO. Not quote to the level of Finland, which is so nearly in NATO that if someone sneezes.... But massively higher than it was.
Finland hasn't applied to join NATO, and spent the cold war (like Austria) being pretty close to the USSR.
Their closeness to the USSR was an interesting one - while they superficially claimed to be some version of neutral, everyone knew that invading Finland was a Day One move for the USSR, when/if the Big Mistake happened.
It was quite noticeable how fast that turned into practically-a-memeber-of-NATO at the end of the Cold War.
It’s not often I disagree with one of your knowledgable posts Malmsy, but
“ The "standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation" is not a lie, because it is possible to stand shoulder to shoulder with a nation without them joining NATO. Neither Sweden or Finland are in NATO - but no-one doubts that if they were attacked, that NATO would come to their aid. ”
That’s not a true comparison - we were just about to stand by and let Putin hang draw quarter and boil the head of Ukraines democracy, sovereignty, and right to political self determination weren’t we - allowing Russia to do this with military air superiority over the Ukraine nation.
Aside from military aid and sanctions that would seriously stuff up the Russia economy (more than it is in a mess now). Things like cutting off Nord Stream 2 - permanently.
If Americans had sent armoured divisions to Ukraine, this would have guaranteed war. Because at that point Putin would have been trapped by the Greater Russian Nationalists behind him.
Instead, we guaranteed that Russia would *regret* war. But could climb down.
Instead of "destroying the village to save it" we "guaranteed to fuck up anyone who pokes the village further"
So, hopefully, the Russian soldiers go home. Alive, and with all their limbs. And the Ukrainian soldiers can as well.
“ So, hopefully, the Russian soldiers go home. Alive, and with all their limbs. And the Ukrainian soldiers can as well.”
Yes that, but also all the everyday people don’t have to live in long time conflict zone or become refugee!
“ Aside from military aid ”. No air support. Russian have this Busty Brenda air support thing parked in Belarus NATO didn’t fancy tackling. 😕
“ and sanctions that would seriously stuff up the Russia economy (more than it is in a mess now). Things like cutting off Nord Stream 2 - permanently. “. Did you believe that spin? UK have had a chat with Jersey., but Was there consensus on that level of sanctions such as no to Nord 2 outside of Biden’s skull? The sanctions war would have hurt the British people too wouldn’t it, which UK government remained silent about so we should feel relieved today too? Maybe Putin pumps cheap gas into Europe as a loss leader for the diplomatic edge is gives him, splitting EU from agreeing to Washington sanction package, so this Ukraine crisis wasn’t spur of moment decision for Putin?
If Biden doesn't want Nord Stream 2, as in really, really not want it, then the Germans would have to like that. And they know it.
The American leverage of imposing financial sanctions is massive. And shitting on Deutsche Bank would be a very., very popular move in the US.
It’s not often I think you are missing something important Malmsy, but how about this: think of what is coming down the 2 pipes as being heroin. Biden said to the EU junkies, you are not going back to “the supplier” for more. Instead of agreeing with Biden, Our continental cousins thought Biden an impractical idiot. And yesterday Boris repeated to Europe what Biden had told them.
In my Ukraine Crisis analysis big post Sunday night I made comparison of what Putin is doing here with Lady Thatcher and the Miners strike in 1980’s. Lady Thatcher won the strike, but a big part of winning the conflict was the planning before hand building up the coal stocks and other ways not to be dependent on miners digging coal - so if miners decided to strike they would be starved back to work.
I think these two allegory work, because in the diplomatic battle for desired outcomes here, such as agreement on sanctions, Washington prefers those pipelines turned off, Moscow happy to have them on.
Do you see what I am trying to say? Am I wrong.
That’s a really beautiful still image btw. Look at that Putin and weep 😉
The issue of the pipelines is now more controversial than it was, in Germany, for example. Many people who would have waved it through on the grounds of cheap gas are seeing it very differently.
My friend who votes SDP, there, for example, who now refers to Gerhard Schröder in terms of being Putins puppet in a way that will get me banned if I say it literally.
Well on Sunday I did post this. “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
These things are now front and centre. This morning I posted this. “If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you? “
And in the first big press conference of his short term in power, Domehead Schultz has just mentioned the M word, this is what he said “It will be a political catastrophe if Minsk Protocols are not upheld”
Can you imagine Boris or Truss or Biden saying that? In my mind the only reaction to consider next in this astonishing statement from Schultz comes from Kiev. I don’t think they will entirely agree with him. But to what degree they disagree, suggesting open to movement or willing to negotiate is key now to the size of Putin’s carefully planned success here.
The implementation of the Minsk protocols is like the various peace agreements in the former Yugoslavia - signed and then ignored.
Sure, there will be some renewed commitment to them. Which will mean exactly nothing happens on the ground.
Yet again I think you missing something big here Malmsy - because if those pleblicites do, or don’t go ahead, either way it’s a big deal.
Minsk Protocol II as explained by PBs right of centre Libdem voting MoonRabbit. I’ll keep this simple, but I think still nail it on the head. (But please correct me where you think I am wrong)
The issue with Minsk II is over interpretation, with Kiev preferring a rewrite to confirm the interpretation, before implementation, Moscow prefers implementation without the rewrite.
Essentially, correct me where wrong, Ukraine does not want a ceasefire and local elections in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics on their future status in Ukraine, until Russia withdraws its military from there. Russia claims its military is not there, Ukraine should agree to a ceasefire and allow these plebiscite to go ahead.
Because they have a different interpretation on Minsk II Kiev wants it rewritten not implemented.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Considering the courts have already shown his absurd defence to be lies and money is going to charity, I think blaming the victim for settling at this point is a tad absurd, don't you?
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
Time for people to move on from partygate, it's been done to death.
It's unfortunate the Met is wasting so much money on this.
Laughable
I don’t know why Dale’s post appeared flagged. It was accurate and put more politely than many on this forum.
In Dales defence I’ll post “Boris sacked in dogminus 7 days.
Can Admins see who does the false flag’s and banish the naughty ones?
PS Gary, in my opinion its still rumbling in background like a volcano about to erupt wiping out all life in Boris Citadel. Whatever MET are paying for this, it’s cheap price for honesty and probity in government and rules of the land that treat everyone equally and fairly
I do believe the flag is there to be used as clients wish and is not in the preogative of any single user stating how and when it should be used. Why would admin decide who is using and why or not? Surely freedom of speech applies on PB, within the law (OGH). PS: Even if implausible. Just look at the amount of Flags I have and each one of them undeserved, yet I suffer in silence.
Moderation DO review Flags and Off Topics. They MAY take action against those who have done the flagging if they consider it unreasonable, as well of course as reviewing whether the Flag/Off Topic is justified and thus whether action should be taken against the poster who made the post which has been flagged. It is of course a matter for Moderator discretion.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
Sorry, David, how do you mean, with the photo?
She has now admitted that she does not have the original of the photo with Andrew's hand around her and Maxwell skulking in the background. There must have been a worry that the Judge would exclude all references to copies when its provenance could not be substantiated.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Considering the courts have already shown his absurd defence to be lies and money is going to charity, I think blaming the victim for settling at this point is a tad absurd, don't you?
Not blaming the victim, but the hypocrisy. But it seems I might have been wrong on that too. Mea culpa.
Time for people to move on from partygate, it's been done to death.
It's unfortunate the Met is wasting so much money on this.
Laughable
I don’t know why Dale’s post appeared flagged. It was accurate and put more politely than many on this forum.
In Dales defence I’ll post “Boris sacked in dogminus 7 days.
Can Admins see who does the false flag’s and banish the naughty ones?
PS Gary, in my opinion its still rumbling in background like a volcano about to erupt wiping out all life in Boris Citadel. Whatever MET are paying for this, it’s cheap price for honesty and probity in government and rules of the land that treat everyone equally and fairly
I do believe the flag is there to be used as clients wish and is not in the preogative of any single user stating how and when it should be used. Why would admin decide who is using and why or not? Surely freedom of speech applies on PB, within the law (OGH). PS: Even if implausible. Just look at the amount of Flags I have and each one of them undeserved, yet I suffer in silence.
Moderation DO review Flags and Off Topics. They MAY take action against those who have done the flagging if they consider it unreasonable, as well of course as reviewing whether the Flag/Off Topic is justified and thus whether action should be taken against the poster who made the post which has been flagged. It is of course a matter for Moderator discretion.
I do wish they would, there is a certain poster (I think we all know who it is) who flags anything he doesn't like the content of.
Do tell? Who is it? How do you know?
On my vanilla UI you can’t tell who has flagged. It does seem quite a petulant gesture
I'll give you a clue, it is normally if I ever write anything unfavourable about a small round toadish looking Scottish politician.
There tells a story , foreskin is a privileged Troll indeed
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Considering the courts have already shown his absurd defence to be lies and money is going to charity, I think blaming the victim for settling at this point is a tad absurd, don't you?
Not blaming the victim, but the hypocrisy. But it seems I might have been wrong on that too. Mea culpa.
How is it hypocritical to reach an out of court settlement where money is going to a charity to support other victims?
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
Sorry, David, how do you mean, with the photo?
She has now admitted that she does not have the original of the photo with Andrew's hand around her and Maxwell skulking in the background. There must have been a worry that the Judge would exclude all references to copies when its provenance could not be substantiated.
Without sounding like Andy's butler, that photo always looked a bit dodgy to me. I thought that even before I saw the expanded version with Maxwell in shot. It all seemed too damning to be true.
Time for people to move on from partygate, it's been done to death.
It's unfortunate the Met is wasting so much money on this.
Laughable
I don’t know why Dale’s post appeared flagged. It was accurate and put more politely than many on this forum.
In Dales defence I’ll post “Boris sacked in dogminus 7 days.
Can Admins see who does the false flag’s and banish the naughty ones?
PS Gary, in my opinion its still rumbling in background like a volcano about to erupt wiping out all life in Boris Citadel. Whatever MET are paying for this, it’s cheap price for honesty and probity in government and rules of the land that treat everyone equally and fairly
Because Gary (CCHQ Bot?) keeps flagging me when I point out that his defence of his boss is laughable.
Which in itself if laughable...
A good few more of them on here nowadays, they are easy to spot with their repetition
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
So you think we can rehabilitate Andrew's impeccable character so he can re - board the gravy train?
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
So you think we can rehabilitate Andrew's impeccable character so he can re - board the gravy train?
I suspect we'll find out the charitable bit. But I'm not sure of the reasons for your suggestion. I have sent (and received) numerous hard line letters, challenging evidence, but accompanied by improved settlement offers.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
So you think we can rehabilitate Andrew's impeccable character so he can re - board the gravy train?
February 2022 is taking on the power of Lazarus in giant proportions by the look of it. We could see as a result of this month the rehabilitation of
NATO Boris Prince Andrew
Maybe Kurt Zouma will be thanking his lucky stars his error was in this great time of forgiveness and new starts…..
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
Strangely, I don't think Russia is bothered by NATO. NATO exists to oppose Russia. It makes Russia important, which is what Putin cares about. Particularly as NATO won't actually do anything directly against Russia.
Ukraine's relationship with the EU is the bigger issue and what kicked this whole thing off. The EU normalises countries and is supranational. There is no role for Putin's Russia in the EU's world view.
Having a country in what Putin and many other Russians regard as "Greater Russia" in which democracy, the rule of law, freedom of expression and free press, etc,, prevail would be bitter gall and wormwood to the Kremlin. Russians would soon draw their own conclusions and wonder why they are stuck with a repressive kleptocracy. I think this explains the thinking a lot. Basically self-preservation. Probably also explains Chinese approach to Hong Kong.
Yes, this is what makes sense to me. It's not about Ukraine NATO membership (as such) it's about their membership of the club of free and prosperous democracies. Therefore the main overall aim of the Putin muscle flexing was to set back their progress towards this. With a side benefit of Russia (him) centre stage for lots of talks and diplomacy, reminding the West of its (his) potent presence, and also maybe playing well at home. So that would be a win, although it doesn't mean a loss for the US/EU since it looks like they played it well. So far anyway. I guess this is all a bit premature.
In Greater Russian Nationalism, the West/Europe has a non-Russian and therefore BAD culture. Being assimilated into European culture would be The End OF Russia to such a view point.
Sounds rather like the 'great replacement' type sentiment you hear in certain places, or the islamic extremism you hear in certain other places. All this Clash of Cultures stuff. So ridiculous. But disturbingly seductive to many.
On the Great Replacement theme I can highly recommend the Louis Theroux doc on iPlayer where he meets with young alt right guys in the US. Fcking terrifying really how much reach their crazy ideas have.
So racist even the most un-woke like I probably am will be pretty gobsmacked.
There is a guy called Nick Fuentes who is seriously a young Hitler. The most bonkers thing is that he’s banging on about racial purity and that the US is English and Christian blah blah blah and you want Theroux to ask him “ok so you are of Spanish/Italian immigrant stock - are you ‘lesser’ than the WASPS you hold as the untermensch?” And secondly, when he’s banging on about no immigrants to the US does he not get that he and all his followers who aren’t Native American are immigrants who’ve ruined the country for original settlers!
I also don’t get their beef with Jews. But like I said it’s actually really worrying what’s been unleashed by social media combined with Trump - at the end I just thought “Trump seriously has a lot to answer for” it really rammed home the divisions he’s unleashed.
Well said.
(Be careful @Leon doesn't add you to his 'Wokelist' though! 😉)
Speaking of which, Leon slipped a nice little "great replacement" nugget into a post the other day (I don’t expect this epiphany to happen anytime before the Chinese regime’s “Legal Enslavement of Whitey Act 2043”) and eight people liked it. Eight. I think a few people who frequent right-wing social media circles have just become so used to seeing that kind of thing that they don't notice it. It's normalised.
The post, by the way, was a critical response to a "the west is to blame for this Ukraine situation", which was a fair enough criticism. But when thinking about a largely white Europe and a largely white Russia, I don't even know how he managed to decide ethnicity was an issue. Leon truly is the Boris of this forum. Scratch the eloquent grandeur and underneath is a desiccated heart of bitter hatred that is frightening to glimpse. A thoroughly nasty piece of work.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Considering the courts have already shown his absurd defence to be lies and money is going to charity, I think blaming the victim for settling at this point is a tad absurd, don't you?
The credibility or otherwise of his defence has not been and will not be tested by a court (public opinion is different, of course). His "technical" defences of lack of jurisdiction and full and final settlement were rejected pending trial but that has nothing to do with his credibility.
It would have cost Andrew a very substantial sum to mount a full defence in New York. I would guess that the settlement and the unrecoverable costs of that might be closely related.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
Sorry, David, how do you mean, with the photo?
She has now admitted that she does not have the original of the photo with Andrew's hand around her and Maxwell skulking in the background. There must have been a worry that the Judge would exclude all references to copies when its provenance could not be substantiated.
There's not usually an admission of guilt with this sort of settlement, is there? In which case that particular aspect isn't a surprise or meaningful. The charity part is interesting though. Plus the lack of an apology. And the original photo being unavailable. Also the amount would be interesting - since it would indicate who caved - but I guess that's secret.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
Putin won't accept a vote where he doesn't control the count.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
Sorry, David, how do you mean, with the photo?
She has now admitted that she does not have the original of the photo with Andrew's hand around her and Maxwell skulking in the background. There must have been a worry that the Judge would exclude all references to copies when its provenance could not be substantiated.
Sounds like she couldn’t substantiate the photo, and we already knew that Andrew had a number of other women as witnesses, who were accusing her of procuring them for Epstein.
A trial would have been horribly messy for all concerned, so if a donation to charity both avoids everyone’s legal bills and stops both sides airing their dirty laundry in public…
As one of PBs staunch monarchists (and it’s awful I feel like a minority in this chat room) mixed feelings about this news story. It means Andrew can never clear his name now, which is sad for the monarchy ☹️
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
Putin won't accept a vote where he doesn't control the count.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
Putin won't accept a vote where he doesn't control the count.
I bet he will accept a neutral set of observers.
The count won't be close in D & L.
Putin is a nasty piece of work ... but Ukraine's position is also ludicrous.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
Sorry, David, how do you mean, with the photo?
She has now admitted that she does not have the original of the photo with Andrew's hand around her and Maxwell skulking in the background. There must have been a worry that the Judge would exclude all references to copies when its provenance could not be substantiated.
Sounds like she couldn’t substantiate the photo, and we already knew that Andrew had a number of other women as witnesses, who were accusing her of procuring them for Epstein.
A trial would have been horribly messy for all concerned, so if a donation to charity both avoids everyone’s legal bills and stops both sides airing their dirty laundry in public…
Andrew may well have won the battle but still lost the war by having that sleeze brought out in a public court. Settlement was the right thing to do if he could get one with no admission of liability or guilt.
As one of PBs staunch monarchists (and it’s awful I feel like a minority in this chat room) mixed feelings about this news story. It means Andrew can never clear his name now, which is sad for the monarchy ☹️
Andrew has not been found guilty either, this settles the matter so we can move on.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession anyway
Time for people to move on from partygate, it's been done to death.
It's unfortunate the Met is wasting so much money on this.
Laughable
I don’t know why Dale’s post appeared flagged. It was accurate and put more politely than many on this forum.
In Dales defence I’ll post “Boris sacked in dogminus 7 days.
Can Admins see who does the false flag’s and banish the naughty ones?
PS Gary, in my opinion its still rumbling in background like a volcano about to erupt wiping out all life in Boris Citadel. Whatever MET are paying for this, it’s cheap price for honesty and probity in government and rules of the land that treat everyone equally and fairly
I do believe the flag is there to be used as clients wish and is not in the preogative of any single user stating how and when it should be used. Why would admin decide who is using and why or not? Surely freedom of speech applies on PB, within the law (OGH). PS: Even if implausible. Just look at the amount of Flags I have and each one of them undeserved, yet I suffer in silence.
Moderation DO review Flags and Off Topics. They MAY take action against those who have done the flagging if they consider it unreasonable, as well of course as reviewing whether the Flag/Off Topic is justified and thus whether action should be taken against the poster who made the post which has been flagged. It is of course a matter for Moderator discretion.
Thought police
Would it be better, if possible, to do away with all buttons except quote?
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Considering the courts have already shown his absurd defence to be lies and money is going to charity, I think blaming the victim for settling at this point is a tad absurd, don't you?
Not blaming the victim, but the hypocrisy. But it seems I might have been wrong on that too. Mea culpa.
How is it hypocritical to reach an out of court settlement where money is going to a charity to support other victims?
As I said, I got it wrong. From the first thing I read, it looked like there was a financial settlement without stating it was to a charity.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
Putin won't accept a vote where he doesn't control the count.
Of course not. He is Stalin's heir, after all.
In this, he is more Napoleon's heir.
Napoleon's brother never gets the credit for the elections he did the counting for.
I still like the story about the election of Napoleon to First Consul - One of his generals held a parade on election day and told his troops that the desk to vote Yes was in front of them. All those who wanted to vote No would be shot.
Time for people to move on from partygate, it's been done to death.
It's unfortunate the Met is wasting so much money on this.
Laughable
I don’t know why Dale’s post appeared flagged. It was accurate and put more politely than many on this forum.
In Dales defence I’ll post “Boris sacked in dogminus 7 days.
Can Admins see who does the false flag’s and banish the naughty ones?
PS Gary, in my opinion its still rumbling in background like a volcano about to erupt wiping out all life in Boris Citadel. Whatever MET are paying for this, it’s cheap price for honesty and probity in government and rules of the land that treat everyone equally and fairly
I do believe the flag is there to be used as clients wish and is not in the preogative of any single user stating how and when it should be used. Why would admin decide who is using and why or not? Surely freedom of speech applies on PB, within the law (OGH). PS: Even if implausible. Just look at the amount of Flags I have and each one of them undeserved, yet I suffer in silence.
Moderation DO review Flags and Off Topics. They MAY take action against those who have done the flagging if they consider it unreasonable, as well of course as reviewing whether the Flag/Off Topic is justified and thus whether action should be taken against the poster who made the post which has been flagged. It is of course a matter for Moderator discretion.
Thought police
Would it be better, if possible, to do away with all buttons except quote?
Or just replace 'flag' and 'off topic' with one 'dislike' button?
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
As one of PBs staunch monarchists (and it’s awful I feel like a minority in this chat room) mixed feelings about this news story. It means Andrew can never clear his name now, which is sad for the monarchy ☹️
Whether you are a monarchist or not does not factor into his guilt. Given his record of behaviour, I think this is about as good an outcome for the monarchy as possible.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
Putin won't accept a vote where he doesn't control the count.
Of course not. He is Stalin's heir, after all.
In this, he is more Napoleon's heir.
Napoleon's brother never gets the credit for the elections he did the counting for.
I still like the story about the election of Napoleon to First Consul - One of his generals held a parade on election day and told his troops that the desk to vote Yes was in front of them. All those who wanted to vote No would be shot.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
Putin won't accept a vote where he doesn't control the count.
I bet he will accept a neutral set of observers.
The count won't be close in D & L.
Putin is a nasty piece of work ... but Ukraine's position is also ludicrous.
Not wanting chunks of their country stolen at gunpoint is "ludicrous"?
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
So you think we can rehabilitate Andrew's impeccable character so he can re - board the gravy train?
Not a chance.
Not to say he won't try. I bet even now he's furtively seeing what connections can be restored.
Lol.
'Andrew has not been found guilty either, this settles the matter so we can move on.'
As one of PBs staunch monarchists (and it’s awful I feel like a minority in this chat room) mixed feelings about this news story. It means Andrew can never clear his name now, which is sad for the monarchy ☹️
Whether you are a monarchist or not does not factor into his guilt. Given his record of behaviour, I think this is about as good an outcome for the monarchy as possible.
I agree with you only reluctantly, as clearing name was best option of all for Monarchy.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
How noble and democratic sounding.
Just like the Baltics in 1940.
Actually, the League of Nations & UN has a long history of holding plebiscites in disputed territory as a way of resolving boundary disputes from Schleswig-Holstein through Silesia and Saar to Togoland and Cameroon.
And they have been -- by and large -- very successful in resolving issues.
As one of PBs staunch monarchists (and it’s awful I feel like a minority in this chat room) mixed feelings about this news story. It means Andrew can never clear his name now, which is sad for the monarchy ☹️
Andrew has not been found guilty either, this settles the matter so we can move on.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession anyway
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
LOL. Don't give HUYFD ideas. He'll be advocating mass migration of English into Scotland, NI and Wales, followed by uprisings within certain towns in those areas, and demanding a plebiscite once they have reached majority in those areas, to create autonomy from Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
How noble and democratic sounding.
Just like the Baltics in 1940.
It is curious and interesting to think that the modern belief in democracy and such plebiscites *encourages* genocide and population replacement.
The Yugoslav Wars were all about creating facts on the ground, so that when peace came... The Chinese efforts in Tibet and now in Xinjiang is about eliminating any non-Han cultures that might ever feel a bit separate.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
Sadly we do not know exactly what the result would have been had there been a free and fair vote. The Crimea referendum was riddled with corruption and certainly rigged by Russia. We mustn't mistake pretendy democracy for the real thing.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Considering the courts have already shown his absurd defence to be lies and money is going to charity, I think blaming the victim for settling at this point is a tad absurd, don't you?
Not blaming the victim, but the hypocrisy. But it seems I might have been wrong on that too. Mea culpa.
How is it hypocritical to reach an out of court settlement where money is going to a charity to support other victims?
As I said, I got it wrong. From the first thing I read, it looked like there was a financial settlement without stating it was to a charity.
The other thing to check is the nature of the charity - Who controls it? Who gets a salary from it?
Given the hole that Andrew Windsor was in this outcome is as good as was possible for him. Kudos to whoever it was who convinced him to accept it, as he appeared to be boneheaded enough to refuse any settlement.
Now I simply hope never to have any reason to see him in the news again. No attempt at a public rehabilitation please.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
LOL. Don't give HUYFD ideas. He'll be advocating mass migration of English into Scotland, NI and Wales, followed by uprisings within certain towns in those areas, and demanding a plebiscite once they have reached majority in those areas, to create autonomy from Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh.
The difference is (of course) the boundaries of Wales and Scotland have been fixed for centuries.
And Ireland does not need a boundary as the homeland of the Irish people is very clear-cut. It is the whole island.
So much for Virginia Guiffre saying her lawsuit against Randy Andy was not about money ...
Or so much for Andrew being determined to clear his name. You pays your money you takes your choice.
It's not entirely clear if he has paid any money to her. He has made a donation to her charity for survivors and expressed regret about his association with Epstein. It looks to me that her side has folded more than his, possibly because they have "lost" the photograph.
So you think we can rehabilitate Andrew's impeccable character so he can re - board the gravy train?
Not a chance.
Short of the originals out of which the photo is alleged to have been fabricated appearing, I think not.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
LOL. Don't give HUYFD ideas. He'll be advocating mass migration of English into Scotland, NI and Wales, followed by uprisings within certain towns in those areas, and demanding a plebiscite once they have reached majority in those areas, to create autonomy from Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh.
The difference is (of course) the boundaries of Wales and Scotland have been fixed for centuries.
And Ireland does not need a boundary as the homeland of the Irish people is very clear-cut. It is the whole island.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
LOL. Don't give HUYFD ideas. He'll be advocating mass migration of English into Scotland, NI and Wales, followed by uprisings within certain towns in those areas, and demanding a plebiscite once they have reached majority in those areas, to create autonomy from Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh.
The difference is (of course) the boundaries of Wales and Scotland have been fixed for centuries.
And Ireland does not need a boundary as the homeland of the Irish people is very clear-cut. It is the whole island.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
Sadly we do not know exactly what the result would have been had there been a free and fair vote. The Crimea referendum was riddled with corruption and certainly rigged by Russia. We mustn't mistake pretendy democracy for the real thing.
Did Ukraine offer a plebiscite while it controlled the territory?
I agree about Putin's referendum, but an actual referendum under the auspices of the UN would not change the result (though it would be less overwhelming).
Someone posted this on site a couple of days ago “Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you?
So with war over and negotiations that consider Russian security in all this being given a chance, does the media narrative shift back now to vaccination status of tennis players and the other big Moscow story - Boris Moscow?
Someone on PB has started a countdown to Big Dog’s neutering and it stands today at just Snip minus 7 days 😲
I think there is no agreement as to what the Minsk protocol actually means.
The current Russian Government position is that they are not a party to Minsk. Or, I think, to Minsk II.
And what they want is a further move to give them control over what happens in other sovereign countries, whilst denying that to others in their own country.
If EuCo starts making noises as you suggest, then it will encourage Russia to try the same in Poland and the Baltics and Finland, and imo put themselves in the same place as France and the UK in 1938.
Your entitled to your view. For some “negotiations that also consider Russian security concerns in all this” is yet another reason to hate and bash the EU.
Ukraine position is to have both NATO membership AND to retake parts of its own sovereign territory held by the Russians. Do you support the UK and Washington fast tracking Ukraine NATO membership? In your opinion why don’t they have it yet? Can they have it by the end of the year? Up until then “standing shoulder to shoulder with democratic sovereign nation” is just hollow words or even lies isn’t it?
Strangely, I don't think Russia is bothered by NATO. NATO exists to oppose Russia. It makes Russia important, which is what Putin cares about. Particularly as NATO won't actually do anything directly against Russia.
Ukraine's relationship with the EU is the bigger issue and what kicked this whole thing off. The EU normalises countries and is supranational. There is no role for Putin's Russia in the EU's world view.
Having a country in what Putin and many other Russians regard as "Greater Russia" in which democracy, the rule of law, freedom of expression and free press, etc,, prevail would be bitter gall and wormwood to the Kremlin. Russians would soon draw their own conclusions and wonder why they are stuck with a repressive kleptocracy. I think this explains the thinking a lot. Basically self-preservation. Probably also explains Chinese approach to Hong Kong.
Yes, this is what makes sense to me. It's not about Ukraine NATO membership (as such) it's about their membership of the club of free and prosperous democracies. Therefore the main overall aim of the Putin muscle flexing was to set back their progress towards this. With a side benefit of Russia (him) centre stage for lots of talks and diplomacy, reminding the West of its (his) potent presence, and also maybe playing well at home. So that would be a win, although it doesn't mean a loss for the US/EU since it looks like they played it well. So far anyway. I guess this is all a bit premature.
In Greater Russian Nationalism, the West/Europe has a non-Russian and therefore BAD culture. Being assimilated into European culture would be The End OF Russia to such a view point.
Sounds rather like the 'great replacement' type sentiment you hear in certain places, or the islamic extremism you hear in certain other places. All this Clash of Cultures stuff. So ridiculous. But disturbingly seductive to many.
On the Great Replacement theme I can highly recommend the Louis Theroux doc on iPlayer where he meets with young alt right guys in the US. Fcking terrifying really how much reach their crazy ideas have.
So racist even the most un-woke like I probably am will be pretty gobsmacked.
There is a guy called Nick Fuentes who is seriously a young Hitler. The most bonkers thing is that he’s banging on about racial purity and that the US is English and Christian blah blah blah and you want Theroux to ask him “ok so you are of Spanish/Italian immigrant stock - are you ‘lesser’ than the WASPS you hold as the untermensch?” And secondly, when he’s banging on about no immigrants to the US does he not get that he and all his followers who aren’t Native American are immigrants who’ve ruined the country for original settlers!
I also don’t get their beef with Jews. But like I said it’s actually really worrying what’s been unleashed by social media combined with Trump - at the end I just thought “Trump seriously has a lot to answer for” it really rammed home the divisions he’s unleashed.
Well said.
(Be careful @Leon doesn't add you to his 'Wokelist' though! 😉)
Speaking of which, Leon slipped a nice little "great replacement" nugget into a post the other day (I don’t expect this epiphany to happen anytime before the Chinese regime’s “Legal Enslavement of Whitey Act 2043”) and eight people liked it. Eight. I think a few people who frequent right-wing social media circles have just become so used to seeing that kind of thing that they don't notice it. It's normalised.
The post, by the way, was a critical response to a "the west is to blame for this Ukraine situation", which was a fair enough criticism. But when thinking about a largely white Europe and a largely white Russia, I don't even know how he managed to decide ethnicity was an issue. Leon truly is the Boris of this forum. Scratch the eloquent grandeur and underneath is a desiccated heart of bitter hatred that is frightening to glimpse. A thoroughly nasty piece of work.
Literally went to add a like to it just because of this post.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
I am very pleased someone else on pb.com (other than myself) has accepted what is very obvious to anyone with some knowledge of the area.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
I didn’t say that, or state a preference. I merely explained what I believe Kiev and Moscow positions and interpretations are in Minsk II for us to relate to when Western Leaders express opinion on it. How well did I do at explaining it, I’m still waiting to hear.
If those elections are held I believe those regions vote to leave Ukraine sovereignty and borders. Is this what you really want to see happen my dear poet? Why do you think that would help?
Comments
Also you don’t have to be woke to think their desire that women shouldn’t work or vote is beyond dumb. Really really stupid, intellectually basic, nasty racist virgins with a massive following thanks to the internet.
So Putin is trying to chill Ukraine's economy and to reverse those trends. He makes investment in Ukraine unattractive and increases the brain drain as skilled, young people look for safer havens. He can achieve a lot of this without firing a bullet. And he has. But he is getting himself at the point where these threats become less credible. This is not a good thing, it increases the risk factors here.
The post, by the way, was a critical response to a "the west is to blame for this Ukraine situation", which was a fair enough criticism. But when thinking about a largely white Europe and a largely white Russia, I don't even know how he managed to decide ethnicity was an issue.
Leon truly is the Boris of this forum. Scratch the eloquent grandeur and underneath is a desiccated heart of bitter hatred that is frightening to glimpse. A thoroughly nasty piece of work.
Where the line is crossed between the common decency of not being racist, sexist, homophobic etc., and 'wokism' is surely in the eye of the beholder.
“Whilst Putin doesn’t appear to have goals easily achievable through military action, he will clearly gain a lot if he moves EU and Ukraine towards those Minsk Protocol’s so far not implemented. We have no choice but to consider this, because if he doesn’t initiate military conflict, and we hail ourselves on the triumph of thwarting his invasion - we may actually overlook what Putin’s plan actually has been all along, and crucially still ongoing in the years to come. I suggest we monitor the media carefully not just for signs of invasion or false flag operations, but listen to what EU capitals, and the Ukrainian government, are saying about Nord and Minsk Protocols.”
These things are now front and centre. This morning I posted this.
“If the EU start to say things about considering Russia’s security concerns in all this negotiating, Russia dismantles its build up with a big 😝 in direction of Washington, then not to underestimate what a Gas pipeline or two can actually win you? “
And in the first big press conference of his short term in power, Domehead Schultz has just mentioned the M word, this is what he said
“It will be a political catastrophe if Minsk Protocols are not upheld”
Can you imagine Boris or Truss or Biden saying that? In my mind the only reaction to consider next in this astonishing statement from Schultz comes from Kiev. I don’t think they will entirely agree with him. But to what degree they disagree, suggesting open to movement or willing to negotiate is key now to the size of Putin’s carefully planned success here.
As an aside, does anyone know if the strike prices agreed apply even if the market rate is higher? If so, the recent renewables will be subsidising the rest of the market rather than the other way round.
Shame the Tidal Barrage in the Bristol Channel never got the go ahead
Sure, there will be some renewed commitment to them. Which will mean exactly nothing happens on the ground.
https://twitter.com/LuciaOC_/status/1493617055622471682
Poor thing was hoping a war could help him dupe the plebs into thinking he was Churchill mark 2 .
An irony is that one Great White Hope for American Christianity is probably Hispanic, given demographics and agnostic-drift. There are others.
Don't tell Nick.
In the case of Hinkley C, it required £37 billion from government and consumers.
If you want reliable, waste-free, zero-carbon power paid for by the private sector at a 40% price discount to that required by nuclear.....
Minsk Protocol II as explained by PBs right of centre Libdem voting MoonRabbit.
I’ll keep this simple, but I think still nail it on the head. (But please correct me where you think I am wrong)
The issue with Minsk II is over interpretation, with Kiev preferring a rewrite to confirm the interpretation, before implementation, Moscow prefers implementation without the rewrite.
Essentially, correct me where wrong, Ukraine does not want a ceasefire and local elections in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics on their future status in Ukraine, until Russia withdraws its military from there. Russia claims its military is not there, Ukraine should agree to a ceasefire and allow these plebiscite to go ahead.
Because they have a different interpretation on Minsk II Kiev wants it rewritten not implemented.
More than 720,000 people living in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions have obtained Russian citizenship. The Pleblicites on autonomy from Kiev can only go one way, which is why Western leaders are circumspect what they say about implementing Minsk II. Until gas guzzling addict Gashead Schulz came along…
Just an admission that he regrets his association with Epstein, which the silly fool should have said a long time ago.
However he ‘regrets’ links to Epstein and accepts she was a victim of abuse.
Unclear what the financial settlement is, but expect it is millions of dollars. https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1493620900717109258/photo/1
- Cases falling.
- Hospital admission down
- MV beds down
- In Hospital down.
- Deaths down - and falling fast
But his mum will be very relieved.
I’m am sure he feels as bad as I do for being the first two people to ever jump the gun and make assumptions on PB.
Lessons will be learned.
NATO
Boris
Prince Andrew
Maybe Kurt Zouma will be thanking his lucky stars his error was in this great time of forgiveness and new starts…..
Errrrr, OK
It would have cost Andrew a very substantial sum to mount a full defence in New York. I would guess that the settlement and the unrecoverable costs of that might be closely related.
The plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk will only go one way. (Ditto the Crimea).
Ukraine should allow the UN to hold the plebiscites.
A trial would have been horribly messy for all concerned, so if a donation to charity both avoids everyone’s legal bills and stops both sides airing their dirty laundry in public…
The count won't be close in D & L.
Putin is a nasty piece of work ... but Ukraine's position is also ludicrous.
Andrew is only 9th in the line of succession anyway
Napoleon's brother never gets the credit for the elections he did the counting for.
I still like the story about the election of Napoleon to First Consul - One of his generals held a parade on election day and told his troops that the desk to vote Yes was in front of them. All those who wanted to vote No would be shot.
Just like the Baltics in 1940.
Whether you are a monarchist or not does not factor into his guilt. Given his record of behaviour, I think this is about as good an outcome for the monarchy as possible.
Lol.
'Andrew has not been found guilty either, this settles the matter so we can move on.'
And they have been -- by and large -- very successful in resolving issues.
The Yugoslav Wars were all about creating facts on the ground, so that when peace came...
The Chinese efforts in Tibet and now in Xinjiang is about eliminating any non-Han cultures that might ever feel a bit separate.
Now I simply hope never to have any reason to see him in the news again. No attempt at a public rehabilitation please.
And Ireland does not need a boundary as the homeland of the Irish people is very clear-cut. It is the whole island.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England–Wales_border#Monmouthshire
I agree about Putin's referendum, but an actual referendum under the auspices of the UN would not change the result (though it would be less overwhelming).
If those elections are held I believe those regions vote to leave Ukraine sovereignty and borders. Is this what you really want to see happen my dear poet? Why do you think that would help?