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Labour’s poll leads continue – politicalbetting.com

2

Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    HYUFD said:

    Czech millionaire caught doing 417km/h (260 mph) on a German motorway in a Bugatti Chiron.

    German motorways have no speed limits but prosecutors are investigating to see if if was so dangerous as to be illegal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60301705

    Only 260?

    Why, that's nothing.

    I once made it almost half a mile in 20 minutes in Los Angeles rush hour. That's a much more impressive feat.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    She’s the only way to getting to the PM, because he isn’t listening to anyone else. Yes, it’s been clear for ages, there were rumours very early on that Cummings had fallen out with her because she was interfering in business and distracting the PM with personal trivialities.

    The Guardian were taking the piss even before the last election: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/13/secret-diary-of-carrie-symonds-boris-johnson-dominc-cummings
    That sorta plays to my view. 'Guardian taking the piss' and information coming from that ultra-reliable source, Dom Cummings.

    Cummings in particular.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:


    She’s the only way to getting to the PM, because he isn’t listening to anyone else.

    He's behaving like the complete fucking knob end he's always been. He wasn't exactly an exemplar of sober rectitude and competent governance before he met NutNut.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    Much, much more important than politics is that I have found a decent Indian restaurant in Los Angeles.

    Their bhel poori was 'meh', but their dosas were decent, and their naans were not simply reheated frozen bulk bought.

    Now, the atmosphere was non-existent, the seats uncomfortable, and the service glacial.

    BUT it was the first Indian I've had in LA that I wouldn't be embarassed taking my London friends to.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    She’s the only way to getting to the PM, because he isn’t listening to anyone else.

    He's behaving like the complete fucking knob end he's always been. He wasn't exactly an exemplar of sober rectitude and competent governance before he met NutNut.
    She is known as "NumNuts" to her friends.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,317

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    The PM can appoint whoever he wants as an advisor. If Carrie is a bad advisor, and Johnson cannot fire her, then they will both go down together.

    Dominic Cummings was a controversial figure in a similar role and was subject to intense criticism. The difference is that Cummings had an official role as an adviser, whereas Carrie does not. That does pose some problematic questions, if she is trying to deflect scrutiny by denying her actual role in policy making, on the basis that she wants to have a private life.

    Public figures are subject to scrutiny and character assassination, it comes with the territory. Cummings was, and now Carrie is. If the criticism is misogynistic then it is right that it gets "called out", but it is a feature of democracy that such scrutiny occurs.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    HYUFD said:

    Czech millionaire caught doing 417km/h (260 mph) on a German motorway in a Bugatti Chiron.

    German motorways have no speed limits but prosecutors are investigating to see if if was so dangerous as to be illegal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60301705

    Setting Dura Ace a target?


    Good morning everyone!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    My mother still has one.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Czech millionaire caught doing 417km/h (260 mph) on a German motorway in a Bugatti Chiron.

    German motorways have no speed limits but prosecutors are investigating to see if if was so dangerous as to be illegal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60301705

    Setting Dura Ace a target?
    If the community would like to crowdfund a Koenigsegg Agera RS for me I'll give it a red hot go.
    You should try it in my 2007 Ford Fiesta.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    The PM can appoint whoever he wants as an advisor. If Carrie is a bad advisor, and Johnson cannot fire her, then they will both go down together.

    Dominic Cummings was a controversial figure in a similar role and was subject to intense criticism. The difference is that Cummings had an official role as an adviser, whereas Carrie does not. That does pose some problematic questions, if she is trying to deflect scrutiny by denying her actual role in policy making, on the basis that she wants to have a private life.

    Public figures are subject to scrutiny and character assassination, it comes with the territory. Cummings was, and now Carrie is. If the criticism is misogynistic then it is right that it gets "called out", but it is a feature of democracy that such scrutiny occurs.
    "character assassination' ?

    Enough said.

    Again: I am unconvinced that Carrie is as influential as many are making out - especially as much of the 'evidence' comes from unreliable narrators. But she is a very easy target, as all spouses are.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    The scarcity always existed, but because (to consumers) electricity always cost the same irrespective of the demand/supply balance, they never needed to think about it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    The scarcity always existed, but because (to consumers) electricity always cost the same irrespective of the demand/supply balance, they never needed to think about it.
    Yet surge pricing won't fix anything beyond (say) stopping cars from recharging because most appliances aren't going to be in a position to be told to stop now for x minutes.

    And most items that consume significant amounts of energy do so for significant periods of time, yes I can delay making a cup of tea for 30 minutes but you can't really stop a meal half way through cooking or stop a tumble dryer half way through a load.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,947
    edited February 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    The PM can appoint whoever he wants as an advisor. If Carrie is a bad advisor, and Johnson cannot fire her, then they will both go down together.

    Dominic Cummings was a controversial figure in a similar role and was subject to intense criticism. The difference is that Cummings had an official role as an adviser, whereas Carrie does not. That does pose some problematic questions, if she is trying to deflect scrutiny by denying her actual role in policy making, on the basis that she wants to have a private life.

    Public figures are subject to scrutiny and character assassination, it comes with the territory. Cummings was, and now Carrie is. If the criticism is misogynistic then it is right that it gets "called out", but it is a feature of democracy that such scrutiny occurs.
    "character assassination' ?

    Enough said.

    Again: I am unconvinced that Carrie is as influential as many are making out - especially as much of the 'evidence' comes from unreliable narrators. But she is a very easy target, as all spouses are.
    Not really, look through the past few Prime Ministers and name one where it's possible to see the spouse had an impact on policy.

    Yet Bozo seems to switch Carbon policies based on when he last spoke to his wife and that's before the evacuation of animals form Afghanistan.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Foxy said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Sunak drifting may make for better value. None of the others are going to improve things, and the few competent ones are without enough support in the party.
    I'm unconvinced by Tugendhat.
    Laying down a marker for next time rather than a genuine contender now, I think.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Not really in a domestic setting. I am not sure people want to or in some cases can live their lives being conscious of and actively managing the price of their electricity and consumption. Not everyone wants to be an economist.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    The scarcity always existed, but because (to consumers) electricity always cost the same irrespective of the demand/supply balance, they never needed to think about it.
    Yet surge pricing won't fix anything beyond (say) stopping cars from recharging because most appliances aren't going to be in a position to be told to stop now for x minutes.

    And most items that consume significant amounts of energy do so for significant periods of time, yes I can delay making a cup of tea for 30 minutes but you can't really stop a meal half way through cooking or stop a tumble dryer half way through a load.
    But cars will be one of the very largest consumers.
    This is about planning for the next decade rather than something which matters greatly right now.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    eek said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    The PM can appoint whoever he wants as an advisor. If Carrie is a bad advisor, and Johnson cannot fire her, then they will both go down together.

    Dominic Cummings was a controversial figure in a similar role and was subject to intense criticism. The difference is that Cummings had an official role as an adviser, whereas Carrie does not. That does pose some problematic questions, if she is trying to deflect scrutiny by denying her actual role in policy making, on the basis that she wants to have a private life.

    Public figures are subject to scrutiny and character assassination, it comes with the territory. Cummings was, and now Carrie is. If the criticism is misogynistic then it is right that it gets "called out", but it is a feature of democracy that such scrutiny occurs.
    "character assassination' ?

    Enough said.

    Again: I am unconvinced that Carrie is as influential as many are making out - especially as much of the 'evidence' comes from unreliable narrators. But she is a very easy target, as all spouses are.
    Not really, look through the past few Prime Ministers and name one where it's possible to see the spouse had an impact on policy.

    Yet Bozo seems to switch Carbon policies based on when he last spoke to his wife and that's before the evacuation of animals form Afghanistan.
    I suspect Cherie Blair might have had, strong woman with ideas, and indeed a career, of her own.
    However, her husband isn't the weathercock that Johnson appears to be..... making decisions dependent on his last conversation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    The PM can appoint whoever he wants as an advisor. If Carrie is a bad advisor, and Johnson cannot fire her, then they will both go down together.

    Dominic Cummings was a controversial figure in a similar role and was subject to intense criticism. The difference is that Cummings had an official role as an adviser, whereas Carrie does not. That does pose some problematic questions, if she is trying to deflect scrutiny by denying her actual role in policy making, on the basis that she wants to have a private life.

    Public figures are subject to scrutiny and character assassination, it comes with the territory. Cummings was, and now Carrie is. If the criticism is misogynistic then it is right that it gets "called out", but it is a feature of democracy that such scrutiny occurs.
    "character assassination' ?

    Enough said.

    Again: I am unconvinced that Carrie is as influential as many are making out - especially as much of the 'evidence' comes from unreliable narrators. But she is a very easy target, as all spouses are.
    The wider point is that any influence she has arises from weaknesses in HIS character.
  • Stereodog said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Here’s a good PB quiz, as I sip my gin under the tropical moon

    Here are some kiwis protesting vax outside the NZ Parliament. From the groaniad

    Look at he state of that building. Is this the ugliest Parliament building in the world, or is that still Holyrood? Can anyone think of a worse example?

    And what is the best?




    That looks much better than Holyrood
    Holyrood is a disaster. Nice on the inside, hideous on the outside. Should be flattened the minute the structure has served it’s useful life. About 40 years is fair service?

    Under no circumstances should money be wasted on renovation.

    Dewar was a sneeky wee bastard.
    Unionists, nae taste.

    Discuss.
    Donald Dewar was a decent lawyer, a good politician, but a hopeless quantity surveyor.
    Have you seen the building the UK government wanted the Scottish Parliament to go in? It looks like a Georgian barracks. Also I can tell you that for all it's beauty MPs moan like crazy if you arrange a meeting in the Palace instead of Portcullis House.
    Nope. You’ve got that topsy turvey. It was actually the opposite way round:

    The SNP and most of the Scottish Constitutional Convention wanted to use the existing Royal High School building.

    It was the UKG (specifically Donald Dewar) who insisted on splaffing cash on the carbuncle.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out.

    We have had two attempts to fit a smart meter but both have failed to operate because... no signal. A result of our rural location (and therefore crappy mobile phone reception) and, rather ironically, our high levels of insulation which have turned our house into a Faraday cage.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    eek said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    The PM can appoint whoever he wants as an advisor. If Carrie is a bad advisor, and Johnson cannot fire her, then they will both go down together.

    Dominic Cummings was a controversial figure in a similar role and was subject to intense criticism. The difference is that Cummings had an official role as an adviser, whereas Carrie does not. That does pose some problematic questions, if she is trying to deflect scrutiny by denying her actual role in policy making, on the basis that she wants to have a private life.

    Public figures are subject to scrutiny and character assassination, it comes with the territory. Cummings was, and now Carrie is. If the criticism is misogynistic then it is right that it gets "called out", but it is a feature of democracy that such scrutiny occurs.
    "character assassination' ?

    Enough said.

    Again: I am unconvinced that Carrie is as influential as many are making out - especially as much of the 'evidence' comes from unreliable narrators. But she is a very easy target, as all spouses are.
    Not really, look through the past few Prime Ministers and name one where it's possible to see the spouse had an impact on policy.

    Yet Bozo seems to switch Carbon policies based on when he last spoke to his wife and that's before the evacuation of animals form Afghanistan.
    That might well be true but why are we blaming Carrie for it? The buck stops with Boris. He chooses his advisors.

    The problem isn’t that Carrie is more forthright than Cherie or Denis, the problem is that Johnson is weaker and more susceptible than Blair or Thatcher.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Both Wordle and Nerdle in 3 today, just saying.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Not really in a domestic setting. I am not sure people want to or in some cases can live their lives being conscious of and actively managing the price of their electricity and consumption. Not everyone wants to be an economist.
    It’s also really easy to imagine vulnerable or elderly seeing a massive bill, because they wouldn’t understand how such a system worked, and they have a longstanding routine that always involves doing things at the same time each day.

    For intensive commercial users, then of course work with them to manage peak demand, but for most domestic users it makes no sense outside of the few who are daily charging electric cars.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Mail: A no-confidence vote in Boris Johnson’s tottering authority could happen within days despite MPs being away on recess, it has emerged.

    The 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, which oversees the process for removing a Conservative leader, has the ability to hold proxy votes — meaning that should the threshold of 54 letters be met next week, a vote on the Prime Minister’s leadership could still take place even if MPs cannot attend in person.

    Crucially, it means that Mr Johnson, who has faced calls to quit over his handling of the ‘Partygate’ drama which has gripped Westminster, could face a leadership rebellion in a matter of days despite his recent attempts to ‘reset’ his chaotic administration.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    IanB2 said:

    Mail: A no-confidence vote in Boris Johnson’s tottering authority could happen within days despite MPs being away on recess, it has emerged.

    The 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, which oversees the process for removing a Conservative leader, has the ability to hold proxy votes — meaning that should the threshold of 54 letters be met next week, a vote on the Prime Minister’s leadership could still take place even if MPs cannot attend in person.

    Crucially, it means that Mr Johnson, who has faced calls to quit over his handling of the ‘Partygate’ drama which has gripped Westminster, could face a leadership rebellion in a matter of days despite his recent attempts to ‘reset’ his chaotic administration.

    A classic non-story surely. Are we close to 54 letters? Only Brady knows.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    The scarcity always existed, but because (to consumers) electricity always cost the same irrespective of the demand/supply balance, they never needed to think about it.
    Yet surge pricing won't fix anything beyond (say) stopping cars from recharging because most appliances aren't going to be in a position to be told to stop now for x minutes.

    And most items that consume significant amounts of energy do so for significant periods of time, yes I can delay making a cup of tea for 30 minutes but you can't really stop a meal half way through cooking or stop a tumble dryer half way through a load.
    But cars will be one of the very largest consumers.
    This is about planning for the next decade rather than something which matters greatly right now.
    True but that logic is now required to be built into car charging sockets independently so it's use in smart meters doesn't make much sense there.

    I'm going to regret this (as I suspect I already know the answer) but has whoever designed our smart meters provided an api or interface that smart appliance can listen / talk to to find out whether they should be on or not.

    Given the people involved I strongly suspect they haven't so we are going to have a meter that goes beep but can't do anything to react to the beep other than hope people manually react to the alert.

    Can you tell I automate systems for a living because human beings aren't reliable.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited February 2022

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    The PM can appoint whoever he wants as an advisor. If Carrie is a bad advisor, and Johnson cannot fire her, then they will both go down together.

    Dominic Cummings was a controversial figure in a similar role and was subject to intense criticism. The difference is that Cummings had an official role as an adviser, whereas Carrie does not. That does pose some problematic questions, if she is trying to deflect scrutiny by denying her actual role in policy making, on the basis that she wants to have a private life.

    Public figures are subject to scrutiny and character assassination, it comes with the territory. Cummings was, and now Carrie is. If the criticism is misogynistic then it is right that it gets "called out", but it is a feature of democracy that such scrutiny occurs.
    "character assassination' ?

    Enough said.

    Again: I am unconvinced that Carrie is as influential as many are making out - especially as much of the 'evidence' comes from unreliable narrators. But she is a very easy target, as all spouses are.
    Not really, look through the past few Prime Ministers and name one where it's possible to see the spouse had an impact on policy.

    Yet Bozo seems to switch Carbon policies based on when he last spoke to his wife and that's before the evacuation of animals form Afghanistan.
    That might well be true but why are we blaming Carrie for it? The buck stops with Boris. He chooses his advisors.

    The problem isn’t that Carrie is more forthright than Cherie or Denis, the problem is that Johnson is weaker and more susceptible than Blair or Thatcher.
    Surely the concern over Carrie J is that she appears to have decided to get to a position of power and influence not by standing for election, or writing well-thought out articles, but by making herself attractive to a man who seemed to have a reasonable chance of being one of the most powerful people in the country.
    Very 18th Century.

    And one couldn't say that of Samantha Cameron, Cherie Blair or Norma Major
    Possibly one could about Sarah Brown, although I suspect that might be unfair
    And, on the 'other side' one certainly couldn't accuse Philip May or Denis Thatcher of making their way in life by being attached to their wives' skirts.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    The scarcity always existed, but because (to consumers) electricity always cost the same irrespective of the demand/supply balance, they never needed to think about it.
    Yet surge pricing won't fix anything beyond (say) stopping cars from recharging because most appliances aren't going to be in a position to be told to stop now for x minutes.

    And most items that consume significant amounts of energy do so for significant periods of time, yes I can delay making a cup of tea for 30 minutes but you can't really stop a meal half way through cooking or stop a tumble dryer half way through a load.
    Is there a problem stopping a tumble dryer? Wouldn't you just need to remember to start it again?

    And wouldn't people get into the habit of using appliances when electricity is likely to be cheaper? Eventually technology will presumably take care of some of the timing.

    If surge pricing flattens the peak a bit, won't that help quite a lot?
  • Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Not really in a domestic setting. I am not sure people want to or in some cases can live their lives being conscious of and actively managing the price of their electricity and consumption. Not everyone wants to be an economist.
    It’s also really easy to imagine vulnerable or elderly seeing a massive bill, because they wouldn’t understand how such a system worked, and they have a longstanding routine that always involves doing things at the same time each day.

    For intensive commercial users, then of course work with them to manage peak demand, but for most domestic users it makes no sense outside of the few who are daily charging electric cars.
    But in the future it won't be just a few who are charging cars.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
  • Foxy said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Sunak drifting may make for better value. None of the others are going to improve things, and the few competent ones are without enough support in the party.
    The Conservative Party doesn’t look like it gives a fig about improving things. They’ve decided that culture wars are more important than sound economic fundamentals. Fuck Business is their mantra.

    According to their latest contribution to public debate, the cost of living crisis is due to… wait for it… sandal-clad hippies. (Nothing do with Brexit of course.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    edited February 2022
    I see that Number Ten was asked exactly what it is that Mogg will be doing as Brexit Opportunities Minister (Brexit Under-Minister would have been a more apposite title), since the hard stuff on Northern Ireland will be staying with Truss, and back comes the answer "he'll be running the government's Brexit Opportunities Unit". All clear now?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    eek said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    It’s been clear for a couple of years that she’s been running a shadow policy and management team inside No.10, to the point that everyone who was there doing those jobs officially has walked out, leaving a massive hole where the government’s leadership is supposed to be.

    This lack of a co-ordinated team in No.10, is why the government is lurching from crisis to crisis. There’s no-one there willing to tell the PM what’s really going on and how to react to it.
    "It’s been clear for a couple of years "

    Has it? Or is she just an easy way of getting at the PM?
    The PM can appoint whoever he wants as an advisor. If Carrie is a bad advisor, and Johnson cannot fire her, then they will both go down together.

    Dominic Cummings was a controversial figure in a similar role and was subject to intense criticism. The difference is that Cummings had an official role as an adviser, whereas Carrie does not. That does pose some problematic questions, if she is trying to deflect scrutiny by denying her actual role in policy making, on the basis that she wants to have a private life.

    Public figures are subject to scrutiny and character assassination, it comes with the territory. Cummings was, and now Carrie is. If the criticism is misogynistic then it is right that it gets "called out", but it is a feature of democracy that such scrutiny occurs.
    "character assassination' ?

    Enough said.

    Again: I am unconvinced that Carrie is as influential as many are making out - especially as much of the 'evidence' comes from unreliable narrators. But she is a very easy target, as all spouses are.
    Not really, look through the past few Prime Ministers and name one where it's possible to see the spouse had an impact on policy.

    Yet Bozo seems to switch Carbon policies based on when he last spoke to his wife and that's before the evacuation of animals form Afghanistan.
    There are lots of accusations about her influence - but most of those come from enemies. It's also a really easy way of attacking the PM through her.

    My issue is that the attacks on her seem OTT - I'm expecting calls for a witch burning soon.

    As for your first question: Cherie Blair?
  • Has to be said that as a reset you couldn't have asked for more.
    A government beset by allegations of corruption? Bring in the guy who lobbied for China.
    A government beset by allegations of lying? Promote the guy who the police are investigating for blackmail.
    A government beset by allegations of arrogance? Make the guy who disgraced the House by lying down on the Treasury Bench the Minister of Administrative Affairs and Brexit Boosterism

    It reminds me of the day when Jezbollah did his own reset. By lunchtime he was contradicting policy positions put out by his team at breakfast, and by dinner time the trot loon spads were attacking the front bench. Was the day that it was clear to me that the Jeremy was a disaster and couldn't even do the basics like walk and talk.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Aggregate demand is going to be in the toilet H2 this year

    So should bring inflation down then ?
    Not necessarily, most of our inflation is imported.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    IanB2 said:

    I see that Number Ten was asked exactly what it is that Mogg will be doing as Brexit Opportunities Minister (Brexit Under-Minister would have been a more apposite title), since the hard stuff on Northern Ireland will be staying with Truss, and back comes the answer "he'll be running the government's Brexit Opportunities Unit". All clear now?

    A sinecure if ever there was one!
  • kamski said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    The scarcity always existed, but because (to consumers) electricity always cost the same irrespective of the demand/supply balance, they never needed to think about it.
    Yet surge pricing won't fix anything beyond (say) stopping cars from recharging because most appliances aren't going to be in a position to be told to stop now for x minutes.

    And most items that consume significant amounts of energy do so for significant periods of time, yes I can delay making a cup of tea for 30 minutes but you can't really stop a meal half way through cooking or stop a tumble dryer half way through a load.
    Is there a problem stopping a tumble dryer? Wouldn't you just need to remember to start it again?

    And wouldn't people get into the habit of using appliances when electricity is likely to be cheaper? Eventually technology will presumably take care of some of the timing.

    If surge pricing flattens the peak a bit, won't that help quite a lot?
    Coincidentally I've got a replacement washer/dryer being delivered tomorrow after my old one broke beyond economic repair. It's Bluetooth compatible and has an app and all sorts of other garbage that quite frankly I don't see the point in since when I wash my clothes I turn it on immediately when I load it. You can set on the app apparently a time you want it finished by.

    But I imagine this sort of stuff, done right with the proper APIs linking together could combine. Load the machine, say you want it dry by 7am tomorrow, then leave it alone and let the machine talk to the smart meter to automatically figure out when is the optimal time to run.

    Other energy intensive machines are also becoming internet compatible too. Eg Fridge/Freezers. A fridge/freezer isn't actually running 24/7 it only has to run intermittently to keep the temperature cold (if it ran all the time everything would be far, far too cold). So I expect in the future, with the proper APIs these too will aim to demand energy when it's cheapest.

    Everything comes down to getting the APIs right. People aren't programmable, machines done right certainly can be.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    Both Wordle and Nerdle in 3 today, just saying.

    No spoilers, but fecking US english spelling? WTF
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Aggregate demand is going to be in the toilet H2 this year

    So should bring inflation down then ?
    Not necessarily, most of our inflation is imported.
    It's a bit more complicated than that: aggregate demand is going through the roof as Covid recedes (yes, including Omicron). Supply chains - domestic and international - have not yet adjusted.

    It will take six to nine months of normality (worldwide) before things normalise. But this isn't fundamentally a question of imported vs domestically driven: it is simply a case that demand has normalised and supply is rushing to catch up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    Both Wordle and Nerdle in 3 today, just saying.

    No spoilers, but fecking US english spelling? WTF
    There is simply English spelled properly, and mistakes. ;)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Sandpit said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Javid looks like possibly the value from that field.

    Sunak has a small window of opportunity, he’s about to go from being seen as the nice man handing out piles of money, to the nasty man putting up taxes as inflation hits.
    I've said so before. Javid has a couple of big things going for him.

    1. He stood up to the Cummings-Johnson axis (but *not* over Brexit).

    2. He was still loyal enough to return to the Cabinet later.

    I think that gives him that rare blend of being someone who can credibly claim not to be so tarnished by the current leadership, without being seen as being opposed in principle to its general direction.

    Set against that, however, he gave the impression of being distinctly underwhelming during his short period as Chancellor of the Exchequer. The limit of his abilities might be as a Cabinet minister outside the great offices of state, and that might be obvious to everyone else.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,424
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Aggregate demand is going to be in the toilet H2 this year

    So should bring inflation down then ?
    Not necessarily, most of our inflation is imported.
    It's a bit more complicated than that: aggregate demand is going through the roof as Covid recedes (yes, including Omicron). Supply chains - domestic and international - have not yet adjusted.

    It will take six to nine months of normality (worldwide) before things normalise. But this isn't fundamentally a question of imported vs domestically driven: it is simply a case that demand has normalised and supply is rushing to catch up.
    And it could be much worse. Data I've been looking at suggests higher income groups aren't digging into the huge savings they made during the last two years, and are just spending out of current incomes.

    I'm not sure how inflation/interest rates will affect that. It's all quite interesting for this millennial, never experienced anything like it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    The chicken is becoming the egg on renewables. Before we needed fossil fuels to be expensive to drive the move to renewables. Now we need cheaper renewables to get off a fragile dependency on expensive fossil fuels.
  • Selebian said:

    More interesting for me than the poll leads are the relative numbers and direction of travel. It's not just about the Tory fall, Labour have been consistently edging up since last summer, albeit with acceleration recently. This is good for Labour, I think, as it's a bit more positive than just the other side being shit.

    But still no signs of life in Scottish Labour though. Every time I suspect I spot a wee uptick it evaporates.

    SLab Westminster VI since Anas Sarwar became leader:

    22 (December 2021)
    18
    20
    21
    19
    17
    18
    19
    20
    20
    20
    22
    19
    22
    19
    19
    21
    17
    19
    21
    19
    17 (March 2021)

    I cannot detect any sort of trend there. Flatlining within MoE.

    And without very significant increases in Scotland, Starmer can forget Lab Maj.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    Both Wordle and Nerdle in 3 today, just saying.

    No spoilers, but fecking US english spelling? WTF
    In retrospect, we should have crowdfunded to have the Guardian buy it, and correct the spelling. Too late now.
  • Sandpit said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Javid looks like possibly the value from that field.

    Sunak has a small window of opportunity, he’s about to go from being seen as the nice man handing out piles of money, to the nasty man putting up taxes as inflation hits.
    I've said so before. Javid has a couple of big things going for him.

    1. He stood up to the Cummings-Johnson axis (but *not* over Brexit).

    2. He was still loyal enough to return to the Cabinet later.

    I think that gives him that rare blend of being someone who can credibly claim not to be so tarnished by the current leadership, without being seen as being opposed in principle to its general direction.

    Set against that, however, he gave the impression of being distinctly underwhelming during his short period as Chancellor of the Exchequer. The limit of his abilities might be as a Cabinet minister outside the great offices of state, and that might be obvious to everyone else.
    Javid does not come across as possessing leadership qualities.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Both Wordle and Nerdle in 3 today, just saying.

    No spoilers, but fecking US english spelling? WTF
    Fuckers !!!!!

    I did not see the funny side
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Sandpit said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Javid looks like possibly the value from that field.

    Sunak has a small window of opportunity, he’s about to go from being seen as the nice man handing out piles of money, to the nasty man putting up taxes as inflation hits.
    I've said so before. Javid has a couple of big things going for him.

    1. He stood up to the Cummings-Johnson axis (but *not* over Brexit).

    2. He was still loyal enough to return to the Cabinet later.

    I think that gives him that rare blend of being someone who can credibly claim not to be so tarnished by the current leadership, without being seen as being opposed in principle to its general direction.

    Set against that, however, he gave the impression of being distinctly underwhelming during his short period as Chancellor of the Exchequer. The limit of his abilities might be as a Cabinet minister outside the great offices of state, and that might be obvious to everyone else.
    Javid does not come across as possessing leadership qualities.
    Slightly weird voice, too.
    Silly, but these things matter in politics.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Both Wordle and Nerdle in 3 today, just saying.

    No spoilers, but fecking US english spelling? WTF
    I know. I spent 10 mins anguishing over whether that could be it but after my 2nd guess it was absolutely the only word I could think of to fit. Not good though :(
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Aggregate demand is going to be in the toilet H2 this year

    So should bring inflation down then ?
    Not necessarily, most of our inflation is imported.
    It's a bit more complicated than that: aggregate demand is going through the roof as Covid recedes (yes, including Omicron). Supply chains - domestic and international - have not yet adjusted.

    It will take six to nine months of normality (worldwide) before things normalise. But this isn't fundamentally a question of imported vs domestically driven: it is simply a case that demand has normalised and supply is rushing to catch up.
    I think it will take longer than that for energy and container shipping markets at least. And for quite a few countries, the pandemic isn't yet over.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    kamski said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    The scarcity always existed, but because (to consumers) electricity always cost the same irrespective of the demand/supply balance, they never needed to think about it.
    Yet surge pricing won't fix anything beyond (say) stopping cars from recharging because most appliances aren't going to be in a position to be told to stop now for x minutes.

    And most items that consume significant amounts of energy do so for significant periods of time, yes I can delay making a cup of tea for 30 minutes but you can't really stop a meal half way through cooking or stop a tumble dryer half way through a load.
    Is there a problem stopping a tumble dryer? Wouldn't you just need to remember to start it again?

    And wouldn't people get into the habit of using appliances when electricity is likely to be cheaper? Eventually technology will presumably take care of some of the timing.

    If surge pricing flattens the peak a bit, won't that help quite a lot?
    Coincidentally I've got a replacement washer/dryer being delivered tomorrow after my old one broke beyond economic repair. It's Bluetooth compatible and has an app and all sorts of other garbage that quite frankly I don't see the point in since when I wash my clothes I turn it on immediately when I load it. You can set on the app apparently a time you want it finished by.

    But I imagine this sort of stuff, done right with the proper APIs linking together could combine. Load the machine, say you want it dry by 7am tomorrow, then leave it alone and let the machine talk to the smart meter to automatically figure out when is the optimal time to run.

    Other energy intensive machines are also becoming internet compatible too. Eg Fridge/Freezers. A fridge/freezer isn't actually running 24/7 it only has to run intermittently to keep the temperature cold (if it ran all the time everything would be far, far too cold). So I expect in the future, with the proper APIs these too will aim to demand energy when it's cheapest.

    Everything comes down to getting the APIs right. People aren't programmable, machines done right certainly can be.
    My laundry machine has a simple delay function, which means I can run it on the most energy-efficient setting (which takes more than four hours) overnight, but have it finish shortly after I get up, so I can hang the clothes up to dry and not have them left in the machine going musty.

    What I think some people are missing in this discussion is that wind forecasts are reasonably good, and this means that forecasts of high/low electricity prices will be reasonably good some time ahead. The normal use case will be a notification a day ahead of time that electricity will be cheaper than usual at time x, or more expensive than usual at time y, and people will have a chance to adjust their plans around that. It won't be the case of receiving an alert on expensive electricity halfway through roasting dinner.

    The other thing is that, one of the things people will be able to do, is to use battery storage in their home to react automatically. So you could charge it up when electricity is cheap, and use it to cook your dinner when electricity is expensive. And the battery can be set up to do that for you automatically, without you having to think about it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    kamski said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    The scarcity always existed, but because (to consumers) electricity always cost the same irrespective of the demand/supply balance, they never needed to think about it.
    Yet surge pricing won't fix anything beyond (say) stopping cars from recharging because most appliances aren't going to be in a position to be told to stop now for x minutes.

    And most items that consume significant amounts of energy do so for significant periods of time, yes I can delay making a cup of tea for 30 minutes but you can't really stop a meal half way through cooking or stop a tumble dryer half way through a load.
    Is there a problem stopping a tumble dryer? Wouldn't you just need to remember to start it again?

    And wouldn't people get into the habit of using appliances when electricity is likely to be cheaper? Eventually technology will presumably take care of some of the timing.

    If surge pricing flattens the peak a bit, won't that help quite a lot?
    Coincidentally I've got a replacement washer/dryer being delivered tomorrow after my old one broke beyond economic repair. It's Bluetooth compatible and has an app and all sorts of other garbage that quite frankly I don't see the point in since when I wash my clothes I turn it on immediately when I load it. You can set on the app apparently a time you want it finished by.

    But I imagine this sort of stuff, done right with the proper APIs linking together could combine. Load the machine, say you want it dry by 7am tomorrow, then leave it alone and let the machine talk to the smart meter to automatically figure out when is the optimal time to run.

    Other energy intensive machines are also becoming internet compatible too. Eg Fridge/Freezers. A fridge/freezer isn't actually running 24/7 it only has to run intermittently to keep the temperature cold (if it ran all the time everything would be far, far too cold). So I expect in the future, with the proper APIs these too will aim to demand energy when it's cheapest.

    Everything comes down to getting the APIs right. People aren't programmable, machines done right certainly can be.
    My laundry machine has a simple delay function, which means I can run it on the most energy-efficient setting (which takes more than four hours) overnight, but have it finish shortly after I get up, so I can hang the clothes up to dry and not have them left in the machine going musty.

    What I think some people are missing in this discussion is that wind forecasts are reasonably good, and this means that forecasts of high/low electricity prices will be reasonably good some time ahead. The normal use case will be a notification a day ahead of time that electricity will be cheaper than usual at time x, or more expensive than usual at time y, and people will have a chance to adjust their plans around that. It won't be the case of receiving an alert on expensive electricity halfway through roasting dinner.

    The other thing is that, one of the things people will be able to do, is to use battery storage in their home to react automatically. So you could charge it up when electricity is cheap, and use it to cook your dinner when electricity is expensive. And the battery can be set up to do that for you automatically, without you having to think about it.
    Effectively it will be decentralising a large slice of grid management.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Aggregate demand is going to be in the toilet H2 this year

    So should bring inflation down then ?
    Not necessarily, most of our inflation is imported.
    It's a bit more complicated than that: aggregate demand is going through the roof as Covid recedes (yes, including Omicron). Supply chains - domestic and international - have not yet adjusted.

    It will take six to nine months of normality (worldwide) before things normalise. But this isn't fundamentally a question of imported vs domestically driven: it is simply a case that demand has normalised and supply is rushing to catch up.
    I think it will take longer than that for energy and container shipping markets at least. And for quite a few countries, the pandemic isn't yet over.
    Indeed, China has barely started the pandemic yet. If it really takes off there then we will see a lot more supply shocks.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Javid looks like possibly the value from that field.

    Sunak has a small window of opportunity, he’s about to go from being seen as the nice man handing out piles of money, to the nasty man putting up taxes as inflation hits.
    I've said so before. Javid has a couple of big things going for him.

    1. He stood up to the Cummings-Johnson axis (but *not* over Brexit).

    2. He was still loyal enough to return to the Cabinet later.

    I think that gives him that rare blend of being someone who can credibly claim not to be so tarnished by the current leadership, without being seen as being opposed in principle to its general direction.

    Set against that, however, he gave the impression of being distinctly underwhelming during his short period as Chancellor of the Exchequer. The limit of his abilities might be as a Cabinet minister outside the great offices of state, and that might be obvious to everyone else.
    Javid does not come across as possessing leadership qualities.
    Slightly weird voice, too.
    Silly, but these things matter in politics.
    Underwhelming as Chancellor and no clue as SoS Health. Same old clichés being trotted out yesterday but no commitment at all on training, which is the key to getting enough permanent capacity to address waiting lists.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    It's the same as many things in life, early models will likely have teething issues but longer term it's a sensible idea and those should eventually be ironed out.

    I certainly would like to have one in the future, if I have an electric car I could charge at home in the future. Though since I don't have that yet, I don't see the point in getting the meter yet.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    Likewise. Although they seem to be becoming more frequent. I am getting one voice mail a week now from my supplier.

    An issue I would like a definite answer to is what they are going to do about the closure of 2G/3G signal which these devices use iirc.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    Likewise. Although they seem to be becoming more frequent. I am getting one voice mail a week now from my supplier.

    An issue I would like a definite answer to is what they are going to do about the closure of 2G/3G signal which these devices use iirc.
    2G/3G ?!? You’re kidding me?

    Is 2G still even a thing?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    edited February 2022
    Scott_xP said:
    As usual a good read by Marina Hyde. She does sound angry in parts but who can blame her. The administration of Johnson is as tedious as it is bad.

    I particularly liked 'Carrie has made mistakes but we're surely not at the stage where the buck stops with her' and her withering critique on Big Dom 'who seems to think Johnson's problem is that he got a wrong'un pregnant'!

    Interestingly she reminds us that when Boris goes he'll have scored a hat trick of getting rid of Prime ministers. So something for Philip Thompson to put in the plus column of the Prime Minister he rates as one of the best ever
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited February 2022

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    The charge is that she is 'involved' in some way but its all been pretty non specific and weak. Running a shadow team? What's that mean in practice? Of course leaders talk about the job with their spouse. She is a political operator too, or has been, so if she has been getting involved more then that's fair game to know and criticise, but we'd need more than we've heard to be worried, and the personal animosity behind some of the accusations makes it suspect.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    I think the horror stories are all in the past but the issue with poor signal strength limits the roll-out. I asked the (very helpful) engineer why the meter could not send readings via our wifi if we agree (which we would) but apparently they don't have that capability, which seems totally f*cking stupid.

    So we are stuck sending in readings every month and now potentially going to miss out on surge pricing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    IanB2 said:

    Both Wordle and Nerdle in 3 today, just saying.

    No spoilers, but fecking US english spelling? WTF
    There is simply English spelled properly, and mistakes. ;)
    There are ...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    It's the same as many things in life, early models will likely have teething issues but longer term it's a sensible idea and those should eventually be ironed out.

    I certainly would like to have one in the future, if I have an electric car I could charge at home in the future. Though since I don't have that yet, I don't see the point in getting the meter yet.
    Saves you the hassle of submitting regular readings?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    edited February 2022
    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:
    As usual a good read by Marina Hyde. She does sound angry in parts but who can blame her. The administration of Johnson is as tedious as it is bad.

    I particularly liked 'Carrie has made mistakes but we're surely not at the stage where the buck stops with her' and her withering critique on Big Dom 'who seems to think Johnson's problem is that he got a wrong'un pregnant'! She REALLY doesn't like Dom

    Interestingly she reminds us that when Boris goes he'll have scored a hat trick of getting rid of Prime ministers. So something for Philip Thompson to put in the plus column of the Prime Minister he rates as one of the best ever
    Ah, edgy Marina Hyde, as beloved by centrist Dads up and down the nation and her army of twitter fluffers. Environmentally friendly recycling the same schtick.

    It will be Susie Dent and word of the Day next.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Javid looks like possibly the value from that field.

    Sunak has a small window of opportunity, he’s about to go from being seen as the nice man handing out piles of money, to the nasty man putting up taxes as inflation hits.
    I've said so before. Javid has a couple of big things going for him.

    1. He stood up to the Cummings-Johnson axis (but *not* over Brexit).

    2. He was still loyal enough to return to the Cabinet later.

    I think that gives him that rare blend of being someone who can credibly claim not to be so tarnished by the current leadership, without being seen as being opposed in principle to its general direction.

    Set against that, however, he gave the impression of being distinctly underwhelming during his short period as Chancellor of the Exchequer. The limit of his abilities might be as a Cabinet minister outside the great offices of state, and that might be obvious to everyone else.
    Javid does not come across as possessing leadership qualities.
    Slightly weird voice, too.
    Silly, but these things matter in politics.
    I find Sunak sounds weirder.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    HYUFD said:

    Czech millionaire caught doing 417km/h (260 mph) on a German motorway in a Bugatti Chiron.

    German motorways have no speed limits but prosecutors are investigating to see if if was so dangerous as to be illegal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60301705

    They couldn’t catch him (I’ll get my coat)… but he posted it on YouTube l
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:
    As usual a good read by Marina Hyde. She does sound angry in parts but who can blame her. The administration of Johnson is as tedious as it is bad.

    I particularly liked 'Carrie has made mistakes but we're surely not at the stage where the buck stops with her' and her withering critique on Big Dom 'who seems to think Johnson's problem is that he got a wrong'un pregnant'! She REALLY doesn't like Dom

    Interestingly she reminds us that when Boris goes he'll have scored a hat trick of getting rid of Prime ministers. So something for Philip Thompson to put in the plus column of the Prime Minister he rates as one of the best ever
    Ah, edgy Marina Hyde, as beloved by centrist Dads up and down the nation.

    It will be Susie Dent and word of the Day next.
    She is completely right though. Albeit her headline, by either accident or design, is ironic - the problem is they were trying to reboot the reactor (or to be exact, shut it down for maintenance prior to rebooting it).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    I think the headline Con-Lab gap while useful isn't the whole story and can be a bit artificially volatile, so it's worth tracking the combined anti-Tory vote (Lib-Lab-Grn) over time, and its lead over the conservatives, because:

    1. the Lib Dem vote is the key to Tory losses in parts of the South, and is amenable to tactical voting
    2. The Green vote is squeezable by Labour and Lib Dems if it is over about 4% nationally

    For these purposes I don't include the SNP because its support is fairly constant and the Scottish dynamics are different. An SNP vote is also often electorally anti-Labour or anti-Lib Dem.

    The Tory vs anti-Tory bloc votes show great stability over the period, and little or no trend one way or the other. The two outliers are Ipsos Mori with a 61:31 split and Survation with 53:35 (on the same day) which are way worse / way better for the Tories than the others, but they're the only polls from those companies in the list. Otherwise we're generally in the zone of 55-57% for the rebel alliance, day in day out.

    If they were to achieve say 55% combined at the next election then I would say the most effective combination within the ranges above for taking Tory seats would be something like Labour 41%, Lib Dem 11%, Green 3%.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276

    Selebian said:

    More interesting for me than the poll leads are the relative numbers and direction of travel. It's not just about the Tory fall, Labour have been consistently edging up since last summer, albeit with acceleration recently. This is good for Labour, I think, as it's a bit more positive than just the other side being shit.

    But still no signs of life in Scottish Labour though. Every time I suspect I spot a wee uptick it evaporates.

    SLab Westminster VI since Anas Sarwar became leader:

    22 (December 2021)
    18
    20
    21
    19
    17
    18
    19
    20
    20
    20
    22
    19
    22
    19
    19
    21
    17
    19
    21
    19
    17 (March 2021)

    I cannot detect any sort of trend there. Flatlining within MoE.

    And without very significant increases in Scotland, Starmer can forget Lab Maj.
    True, though if Labour win most seats in a hung parliament then Starmer can ignore the SNP too.

    Only if the Tories win most seats in a hung parliament would Starmer need SNP support to govern if Labour +SNP are still more than Tories +DUP
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    edited February 2022



    There are lots of accusations about her influence - but most of those come from enemies. It's also a really easy way of attacking the PM through her.

    My issue is that the attacks on her seem OTT - I'm expecting calls for a witch burning soon.

    As for your first question: Cherie Blair?

    Did Cherie have very different views on policy to Tony? Not that I can recall. Incidentally, she was a kinder woman than her public face, going by personal experience. I took my wife to a No 10 party and she met them both - I'd tipped them off that she had been having a difficult time for non-political reasons. Tony was polite and smooth, Cherie took her aside to have a long, warm private talk. My wife, who had been a sceptic about both of them, was quite won over by her.

    But I do agree with you that the attacks on Carrie are opportunist attacks on Johnson by proxy, with a dash of misogynism thrown in. Spouses are always going to express a view sometimes, like anyone else who you live with, but it's up to the PM to decide what advice he takes. Johnson's team has been pretty helpful on animal welfare, on the whole (trade excepted), but I assume that in his case it's not spousal influence but simply a (correct) judgement that it gets more votes than being unhelpful.
  • kle4 said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    The charge is that she is 'involved' in some way but its all been pretty non specific and weak. Running a shadow team? What's that mean in practice? Of course leaders talk about the job with their spouse. She is a political operator too, or has been, so if she has been getting involved more then that's fair game to know and criticise, but we'd need more than we've heard to be worried, and the personal animosity behind some of the accusations makes it suspect.
    Didn't she throw a party to celebrate Dom's departure?

    That's a pretty high profile political gesture. Could you imagine Dennis T or Sam Cam doing such a thing?

    She stuck her own head above the parapet.
  • kle4 said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    The charge is that she is 'involved' in some way but its all been pretty non specific and weak. Running a shadow team? What's that mean in practice? Of course leaders talk about the job with their spouse. She is a political operator too, or has been, so if she has been getting involved more then that's fair game to know and criticise, but we'd need more than we've heard to be worried, and the personal animosity behind some of the accusations makes it suspect.
    In some cases, it's simple jealousy. Dom is pretty clear that his plan was for Boris to be a puppet PM, and he's just cross that someone else is pulling the strings.
  • IanB2 said:

    Both Wordle and Nerdle in 3 today, just saying.

    No spoilers, but fecking US english spelling? WTF
    There is simply English spelled properly, and mistakes. ;)
    Give up now. US English has won. It’s all downhill from here. Save your blood pressure and stop caring. I gave up “correcting” English about 15 years ago. I feel comfortable with my decision.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    The charge is that she is 'involved' in some way but its all been pretty non specific and weak. Running a shadow team? What's that mean in practice? Of course leaders talk about the job with their spouse. She is a political operator too, or has been, so if she has been getting involved more then that's fair game to know and criticise, but we'd need more than we've heard to be worried, and the personal animosity behind some of the accusations makes it suspect.
    She can, on the whole, do what she likes; she is no more unelected than any other SPAD, and not visibly worse than anyone else Johnson selects as a cronie.What happened over Kabul and the dogs is, however, crystal clear from the FAC investigation, and a truly striking bit of casual evil.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    edited February 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Javid looks like possibly the value from that field.

    Sunak has a small window of opportunity, he’s about to go from being seen as the nice man handing out piles of money, to the nasty man putting up taxes as inflation hits.
    I've said so before. Javid has a couple of big things going for him.

    1. He stood up to the Cummings-Johnson axis (but *not* over Brexit).

    2. He was still loyal enough to return to the Cabinet later.

    I think that gives him that rare blend of being someone who can credibly claim not to be so tarnished by the current leadership, without being seen as being opposed in principle to its general direction.

    Set against that, however, he gave the impression of being distinctly underwhelming during his short period as Chancellor of the Exchequer. The limit of his abilities might be as a Cabinet minister outside the great offices of state, and that might be obvious to everyone else.
    Javid does not come across as possessing leadership qualities.
    Slightly weird voice, too.
    Silly, but these things matter in politics.
    As, sadly, does his appearance. It shouldn't but it will.

    No bald person has become PM since Churchill and even he was not a total slaphead.

    Now as someone follicly-challenged myself I think that's wrong and stupid but...

    ...well, let's just say my No. 10 ambitions have thinned out somewhat in recent years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited February 2022

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    Likewise. Although they seem to be becoming more frequent. I am getting one voice mail a week now from my supplier.

    An issue I would like a definite answer to is what they are going to do about the closure of 2G/3G signal which these devices use iirc.
    2G/3G ?!? You’re kidding me?

    Is 2G still even a thing?
    I don't know the detail, but here's a very large installed base of (for example) remote alarm signalling* that still uses the old tech. Otherwise it would probably have been turned off.

    (* which only recently replaced dedicated telephone lines.)
  • HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    More interesting for me than the poll leads are the relative numbers and direction of travel. It's not just about the Tory fall, Labour have been consistently edging up since last summer, albeit with acceleration recently. This is good for Labour, I think, as it's a bit more positive than just the other side being shit.

    But still no signs of life in Scottish Labour though. Every time I suspect I spot a wee uptick it evaporates.

    SLab Westminster VI since Anas Sarwar became leader:

    22 (December 2021)
    18
    20
    21
    19
    17
    18
    19
    20
    20
    20
    22
    19
    22
    19
    19
    21
    17
    19
    21
    19
    17 (March 2021)

    I cannot detect any sort of trend there. Flatlining within MoE.

    And without very significant increases in Scotland, Starmer can forget Lab Maj.
    True, though if Labour win most seats in a hung parliament then Starmer can ignore the SNP too.

    Only if the Tories win most seats in a hung parliament would Starmer need SNP support to govern if Labour +SNP are still more than Tories +DUP
    How is Labour going to pass English domestic legislation?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    Likewise. Although they seem to be becoming more frequent. I am getting one voice mail a week now from my supplier.

    An issue I would like a definite answer to is what they are going to do about the closure of 2G/3G signal which these devices use iirc.
    2G/3G ?!? You’re kidding me?

    Is 2G still even a thing?
    The second gen smart meters use their own network - it's no longer tied to the mobile phone network for exactly the reason that those networks would change.
  • Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tugendhat shoots up the rankings to reach 3rd spot. Feels like Sunak has fluffed his chance. Clear Lay?

    Next Con leader

    Sunak 2.92
    Truss 7.6
    Tugendhat 9.6
    Hunt 9.8
    Mordaunt 14
    Javid 21
    Gove 24
    Wallace 29
    Zahawi 34
    Patel 42
    Baker 46
    Raab 46

    Javid looks like possibly the value from that field.

    Sunak has a small window of opportunity, he’s about to go from being seen as the nice man handing out piles of money, to the nasty man putting up taxes as inflation hits.
    I've said so before. Javid has a couple of big things going for him.

    1. He stood up to the Cummings-Johnson axis (but *not* over Brexit).

    2. He was still loyal enough to return to the Cabinet later.

    I think that gives him that rare blend of being someone who can credibly claim not to be so tarnished by the current leadership, without being seen as being opposed in principle to its general direction.

    Set against that, however, he gave the impression of being distinctly underwhelming during his short period as Chancellor of the Exchequer. The limit of his abilities might be as a Cabinet minister outside the great offices of state, and that might be obvious to everyone else.
    Javid does not come across as possessing leadership qualities.
    Slightly weird voice, too.
    Silly, but these things matter in politics.
    As, sadly, does his appearance. It shouldn't but it will.

    No bald person has become PM since Churchill and even he was not a total slaphead.

    Now as someone follicly-challenged myself I think that's wrong and stupid but...

    ...well, let's just say my No. 10 ambitions have thinned out somewhat in recent years.
    I prefer the phrase "high forehead" for obvious reasons.

    :smiley:
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited February 2022



    There are lots of accusations about her influence - but most of those come from enemies. It's also a really easy way of attacking the PM through her.

    My issue is that the attacks on her seem OTT - I'm expecting calls for a witch burning soon.

    As for your first question: Cherie Blair?

    Did Cherie have very different views on policy to Tony? Not that I can recall. Incidentally, she was a kinder woman than her public face, going by personal experience. I took my wife to a No 10 party and she met them both - I'd tipped them off that she had been having a difficult time for non-political reasons. Tony was polite and smooth, Cherie took her aside to have a long, warm private talk. My wife, who had been a sceptic about both of them, was quite won over by her.

    But I do agree with you that the attacks on Carrie are opportunist attacks on Johnson by proxy, with a dash of misogynism thrown in. Spouses are always going to express a view sometimes, like anyone else who you live with, but it's up to the PM to decide what advice he takes. Johnson's team has been pretty helpful on animal welfare, on the whole (trade excepted), but I assume that in his case it's not spousal influence but simply a (correct) judgement that it gets more votes than being unhelpful.
    Playing the "misogyny" card without evidence, just because a woman is the target of criticism, is merely inverted gammonry: you didn't orter say such things about the laydeez. There are misogynists, sure; there was a prolific poster on here who differentially attacked female posters to the extent it was clear what was going on. But Carrie is loathsome in her own right, and it is sexist to say that her sex should inhibit anyone from saying so.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited February 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    More interesting for me than the poll leads are the relative numbers and direction of travel. It's not just about the Tory fall, Labour have been consistently edging up since last summer, albeit with acceleration recently. This is good for Labour, I think, as it's a bit more positive than just the other side being shit.

    But still no signs of life in Scottish Labour though. Every time I suspect I spot a wee uptick it evaporates.

    SLab Westminster VI since Anas Sarwar became leader:

    22 (December 2021)
    18
    20
    21
    19
    17
    18
    19
    20
    20
    20
    22
    19
    22
    19
    19
    21
    17
    19
    21
    19
    17 (March 2021)

    I cannot detect any sort of trend there. Flatlining within MoE.

    And without very significant increases in Scotland, Starmer can forget Lab Maj.
    True, though if Labour win most seats in a hung parliament then Starmer can ignore the SNP too.

    Only if the Tories win most seats in a hung parliament would Starmer need SNP support to govern if Labour +SNP are still more than Tories +DUP
    How is Labour going to pass English domestic legislation?
    They wouldn't but that just results in a second election where the English would need to make up their minds and where Labour may have a chance of winning a few Scottish seats.

    Although any sensible Labour Government stuck with a minority but supported by the SNP would probably be rapidly looking at a form of PR to fix the issue.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    I think the horror stories are all in the past but the issue with poor signal strength limits the roll-out. I asked the (very helpful) engineer why the meter could not send readings via our wifi if we agree (which we would) but apparently they don't have that capability, which seems totally f*cking stupid....
    Because people will change their wifi or turn it off etc, I guess.
    It does make sense to have a dedicated connection.
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    More interesting for me than the poll leads are the relative numbers and direction of travel. It's not just about the Tory fall, Labour have been consistently edging up since last summer, albeit with acceleration recently. This is good for Labour, I think, as it's a bit more positive than just the other side being shit.

    But still no signs of life in Scottish Labour though. Every time I suspect I spot a wee uptick it evaporates.

    SLab Westminster VI since Anas Sarwar became leader:

    22 (December 2021)
    18
    20
    21
    19
    17
    18
    19
    20
    20
    20
    22
    19
    22
    19
    19
    21
    17
    19
    21
    19
    17 (March 2021)

    I cannot detect any sort of trend there. Flatlining within MoE.

    And without very significant increases in Scotland, Starmer can forget Lab Maj.
    True, though if Labour win most seats in a hung parliament then Starmer can ignore the SNP too.

    Only if the Tories win most seats in a hung parliament would Starmer need SNP support to govern if Labour +SNP are still more than Tories +DUP
    How is Labour going to pass English domestic legislation?
    They wouldn't but that just results in a second election where the English would need to make up their minds and where Labour may have a chance of winning a few Scottish seats.

    Although any sensible Labour Government stuck with a minority but supported by the SNP would probably be rapidly looking at a form of PR to fix the issue.
    I’d be amazed if Starmer has not got his PR plan ready to go. He’s just got to time it right.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    That's a pretty high profile political gesture. Could you imagine Dennis T or Sam Cam doing such a thing?

    Denis, definitely. On the 'electric soup' with Maurice P. and Bill in the clubhouse bar at Turpleden.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited February 2022
    Interesting Sadiq Khan interview on Today today. Has put Dick "on notice" but approved her appointment while knowing many of the more egregious activities of the polis.

    Also, as Mishal Hussein pointed out there are 150 Met Police offrs with criminal convictions and they are allowed to stay but those who show misogyny, racism, sexism, etc should be kicked out.

    Wait for some bright-eyed journo to point out that Khan thinks it's ok for those with assault convictions to remain in the police force but someone who misgenders a suspect must be sacked.
  • EU block on UK and Swiss membership of £80bn Horizon Europe, the flagship science research is a "tragedy" for science, says Nobel prize winner Didier Queloz. Plus Lord Kinnoul - it is an "act of mutual self harm". Blocked linked to Northern Ireland talks

    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1491165602240958465?s=21
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kle4 said:

    I am getting more uncomfortable about the s*t being thrown at Carrie. She's an easy target and it's getting fairly nasty.

    The charge is that she is 'involved' in some way but its all been pretty non specific and weak. Running a shadow team? What's that mean in practice? Of course leaders talk about the job with their spouse. She is a political operator too, or has been, so if she has been getting involved more then that's fair game to know and criticise, but we'd need more than we've heard to be worried, and the personal animosity behind some of the accusations makes it suspect.
    Didn't she throw a party to celebrate Dom's departure?

    That's a pretty high profile political gesture. Could you imagine Dennis T or Sam Cam doing such a thing?

    She stuck her own head above the parapet.
    I can't imagine anyone other than an utterly vile teenager (of either sex) doing such a thing. Privately having a large and satisfied drink, yes, but the sheer lack of decorum...
  • EU block on UK and Swiss membership of £80bn Horizon Europe, the flagship science research is a "tragedy" for science, says Nobel prize winner Didier Queloz. Plus Lord Kinnoul - it is an "act of mutual self harm". Blocked linked to Northern Ireland talks

    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1491165602240958465?s=21

    Brexit means Brexit.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    edited February 2022
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Oh indeed, of course it does.

    The problem is that the scarcity didn’t exist previously, and is now only starting to exist because of explicit government policy.

    People have never had to consider the price of electricity in half-hour chunks before, although some will have memories of “Economy 7” meters back in the ‘80s.
    My mother still has one.
    We still have the meter, but on a flat tariff now. We used to switch winter/summer between E7 and flat tariffs as we have solar, so in summer you could do pretty much all the day on solar and use the cheap night leccy. But then we got better at managing the solar (installed a Pi-based monitor on the solar generation and incoming supply so we could see use against solar live and through the day and optimise our use for when it was covered by solar. So now we're on a flat tariff.

    But it does show that optimising use to when it's cheap is relatively easy, even with basic tech. If washing mahcines/dishashers etc get the capability to do the job whenever it's cheapest but by X hours from now then that'll make it easy for many people. If the cost is te same all the time then people come back from work, plug in the car, put the washing machine on and cook dinner. The first two of those likely don't need to happen until hours later when demand is lower.

    One thing I've thought about is people with solar and hot water cylinders. We're on a combi boiler, but if you had solar and a hot tank it would be relatively trivial to use the immersion heater to dump any excess solar electricity into the immersion heater, keep the water hot and minimise gas use etc.
  • eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Balrog said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    As it is we are heading for our first Labour government since 2010 under PM Starmer.

    The polling suggests though that even Sunak would not stop that. He might get the Tories most seats unlike Boris but it would still be a hung parliament and Starmer could still be PM with SNP and LD support

    I think that is right though things can change.
    It will be very very tight by the time the election happens. My prediction. For what it is worth.
    The pain for the Tory party hasn’t even begun yet.

    People know energy prices are going up but many have forgotten that NI is going up and Tesco warned that food prices are going up 5% in April.

    For most people the pain hasn’t really begun yet
    The economic pain, which incidentally with be felt in Europe as well, will see governments ratings plummet as the effects take hold

    As with covid, so with the recovery, we will see dramatic shifts in people's behaviour as they are forced by circumstances to adapt to the change which may include a near certain recession

    I notice Ofgem are going to permit smart meters to provide half hourly updates with surge pricing allowing energy prices to change upto 48 times a day, yes a day. This will also provide an opportunity for consumers to reduce energy at high consumption times and benefit from lower off peak tariffs on a day to day basis

    I have given up on Boris and the conservative party in their present form, and am completely apolitical on party politics and will only rejoin the conservative party when they have come to their senses and Boris is gone
    Half hourly readings has been in the smart meter spec since for ever. It's needed to allow time of use tariffs. Then devices will avoid using power at peak prices which smooths out the demand peaks, which reduces the overall cost because supplying the peak is the most expensive . It's the only bit of the smart meter business case that actually makes sense.
    For things like electric cars, it's particularly useful.

    I plug my car in most evenings. But it doesn't matter when in the night it does the charging. It also probably doesn't matter 99 times out of a 100 if it doesn't go all the way back to 85%. The ability to get cheap electricity in return for not being completely sure it would be all the way charged up would be well worth it.

    And if I absolutely need 100% by morning, I could override it and pay extra.
    Alternatively, as the Telegraph chooses to frame it:

    “Smart meter overhaul to open gates for ‘surge pricing’ ”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/08/smart-meter-overhaul-open-gates-surge-pricing/
    Surge pricing is a great way to ration scarce resources.
    Only if demand is responsive to price. And in energy, over the short and medium term, it is remarkably price-inelastic.
    How does surge pricing work for those without smart meters? Presumably they lose out...
    Electric vehicles are going to mane a very large increase in overall demand for electricity. As new built equipment, it ought to be relatively trivial to fit demand management logic to control their charging, and having price sensitive charging might cut a significant percentage off the new generation capacity required.

    Fitting smart meters now is an inconvenience, but in terms of future planning, it makes sense.
    Yes. I'd love to have one... that works.
    I've been ignoring all the messages about fitting a new smart meter thanks to all the horror stories I've heard from early adopters. Maybe next year.
    Likewise. Although they seem to be becoming more frequent. I am getting one voice mail a week now from my supplier.

    An issue I would like a definite answer to is what they are going to do about the closure of 2G/3G signal which these devices use iirc.
    2G/3G ?!? You’re kidding me?

    Is 2G still even a thing?
    The second gen smart meters use their own network - it's no longer tied to the mobile phone network for exactly the reason that those networks would change.
    Are you sure. My reading of the DCC business documents is that if you live in Central or Southern areas there could be an issue even with 2nd gen. They will need a new comms unit installing.

    I am looking into all this in a bit of detail in spare time at moment, because I am sick of the repeated voice mails telling me to get one: starting to think I better look into this and decide.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    TOPPING said:

    Interesting Sadiq Khan interview on Today today. Has put Dick "on notice" but approved her appointment while knowing many of the more egregious activities of the polis....

    That's as feeble as the Tory backbenchers doing much the same with Boris.
This discussion has been closed.