Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
The mercury is threatening to burst out the top of my whataboutometer this morning.
A stunning contender for “World’s most convoluted admission by an elderly Scotsman that he is actually having a wank”
You seem feisty if resolutely leaden footed today. Jet lagged or still kicking the arse out of World of Dildos expenses in Colombo?
Certainly quite chipper
The Sri Lankans have finally - FINALLY - realised who I am - an era-defining knapper with my own column on the Gazette - and they are suddenly throwing freebies at me
Got dinner, this eve, at supposedly the best Indian in the capital
And on Thursday I've been invited to THE BEST CRAB RESTAURANT IN THE WORLD (and the "29th best restaurant in Asia") where they are "curating" me a meal
Where does calling a group of MPs "worse than Nazis" come in the "failed to prosecute Savile" to "vile Tory scum" scale?
"David Lammy says comparing ERG to Nazis ‘not strong enough’
David Lammy has said comparing the hard-Brexit European Research Group of Tory MPs to Nazis and proponents of South African apartheid was “not strong enough”, and suggested that the Brexit debate had allowed proponents of hard right views to flourish.
The Labour MP, who is a vocal campaigner for a second EU referendum, was asked on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show whether a comparison he previously made to the election of Adolf Hitler’s party in Germany and to South African white supremacists was appropriate.
“I would say that that wasn’t strong enough. In 1938 there were allies who hatched a plan for Hitler to annex part of Czechoslovakia, and Churchill said no, and he stood alone,” he said.
And what of various Tories accusing Corbyn of being a genocidal Stalinist, etc. We could go on here for hours.
The point is a fundamental change of both responding to internet conspiracy thinking, and bringing it straight into parliament as a last-ditch defence tactic. As mentioned many times now, the only person that is redolent of, is Trump.
Who exactly accused Corbyn of genocide?
Edit - And I'm certain that "worse than the Nazis" is a more terrible slur than "failed to prosecute Savile"
A pretty much the same example found immediately, for instance..
"The prime minister accused the Labour leader of victimising the country’s richest with a “relish and vindictiveness” not seen since the Soviet leader persecuted landowners in the 1930s."
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
So if Johnson hadn’t made the comment the demo wouldn’t have happened? Have you watched the footage?
The demo would have happened, the specific Savile-related abuse not.
Given what the same people did to Gove, you seem to be arguing that "you protected (a named paedophile)" is qualitatively - not merely quantitatively - worse than "you protected paedophiles".
And that's ignoring the "B followed A, therefore A caused B" assumption.
It is, because of who is saying it, and the circumstances they're saying it in.
It follows a very specific Trumpian template. In mortal danger ? Acquiesce with internet memes linking your leading opponent with paedophilia. No one in the LD's, Labour or Greens has ever done anything like that to Gove.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
So if Johnson hadn’t made the comment the demo wouldn’t have happened? Have you watched the footage?
The demo would have happened, the specific Savile-related abuse not.
Given what the same people did to Gove, you seem to be arguing that "you protected (a named paedophile)" is qualitatively - not merely quantitatively - worse than "you protected paedophiles".
And that's ignoring the "B followed A, therefore A caused B" assumption.
It is, because of who is saying it, and the circumstances they're saying it in.
It follows a very specific Trumpian template. In mortal danger ? Acquiesce with internet memes linking your leading opponent with paedophilia. No one in the LD's, Labour or Greens has ever done anything like that to Gove.
Are you seriously suggesting that those that surrounded SKS yesterday were only doing it because of what BJ said, despite 99% of what they were shouting having nothing to do with Saville.
Where does calling a group of MPs "worse than Nazis" come in the "failed to prosecute Savile" to "vile Tory scum" scale?
"David Lammy says comparing ERG to Nazis ‘not strong enough’
David Lammy has said comparing the hard-Brexit European Research Group of Tory MPs to Nazis and proponents of South African apartheid was “not strong enough”, and suggested that the Brexit debate had allowed proponents of hard right views to flourish.
The Labour MP, who is a vocal campaigner for a second EU referendum, was asked on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show whether a comparison he previously made to the election of Adolf Hitler’s party in Germany and to South African white supremacists was appropriate.
“I would say that that wasn’t strong enough. In 1938 there were allies who hatched a plan for Hitler to annex part of Czechoslovakia, and Churchill said no, and he stood alone,” he said.
And what of various Tories accusing Corbyn of being a genocidal Stalinist, etc. We could go on here for hours.
The point is a fundamental change of both responding to internet conspiracy thinking, and bringing it straight into parliament as a last-ditch defence tactic. As mentioned many times now, the only person that is redolent of, is Trump.
Who exactly accused Corbyn of genocide?
Edit - And I'm certain that "worse than the Nazis" is a more terrible slur than "failed to prosecute Savile"
A pretty much the same example found immediately, for instance..
"The prime minister accused the Labour leader of victimising the country’s richest with a “relish and vindictiveness” not seen since the Soviet leader persecuted landowners in the 1930s."
Nothing about genocide then?
Not much different really, I wouldn't say. Johnson was essentially accusing him of wanting to do what Stalin did to landowners, which was class-based mass killing.
That's the sort of view that Trotsky ridiculed as in the 1930s. I believe the German Communists used to argue that Hitler would make things so bad that they'd take over afterwards.
It's precisely the opposite. Achieving some moderate reforms builds confidence and creates hope. It makes it more likely that people will support further reforms, and not back down in the face of opposition.
Just catching up, and am devastated to discover that yet another of my fellow socialists has, to coin a phrase, "fucked off and joined the Tories". Starmer will be perplexed (though he has asked if they could take Barnet Momentum with them).
Strange old world for us lefties at the moment. Some of us want power, and are prepared to make some compromises to get it. For others, however, it seems that the nearer they get to power the more determined they are to throw it away. I think there's more like me than like them, though.
I'd go with slightly disappointed rather than devastated.
Owls is weirdly obsessed with Starmer.
Jezziah is demonstrably crackers.
Can't please all of the people, all of the time.
Starmer is the only show in town, if you want rid of this awful, worse government in my lifetime out, so I suggest people of a sane disposition start getting behind him
I like Tugendhat but think it highly unlikely he gets to the final 2. More likely Hunt would face Sunak in the membership vote or a rightwinger like Truss or Raab or Patel.
I also think the Leaver Sunak would easily beat the former Remainer Tugendhat in any membership vote.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
If you think Ukraine is like AH or Yugoslavia then you think the Tatars are better off in Russia against their will and that all Russian-speaking Ukrainians are Russians really and need to be incorporated by force into Russia.
It is a much more ethnically homogenous country than Russia itself.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart. Dare I say it but it sounds like wishful thinking. I generally try to avoid playing Nostradamus. I don't buy the idea that Ukraine is as divided as you say it is. Crimea is certainly very Russian but the eastern regions no longer appear to be as Moscow facing as they were. Given the deliberate interference of a much larger neighbour surely such an unstable country would have fallen apart already.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
So if Johnson hadn’t made the comment the demo wouldn’t have happened? Have you watched the footage?
The demo would have happened, the specific Savile-related abuse not.
Given what the same people did to Gove, you seem to be arguing that "you protected (a named paedophile)" is qualitatively - not merely quantitatively - worse than "you protected paedophiles".
And that's ignoring the "B followed A, therefore A caused B" assumption.
It is, because of who is saying it, and the circumstances they're saying it in.
It follows a very specific Trumpian template. In mortal danger ? Acquiesce with internet memes linking your leading opponent with paedophilia. No one in the LD's, Labour or Greens has ever done anything like that to Gove.
Are you seriously suggesting that those that surrounded SKS yesterday were only doing it because of what BJ said, despite 99% of what they were shouting having nothing to do with Saville.
I'm suggesting that the a large part of what they were shouting at Starmer was only to do with what the Prime Minister did last week, to try and save his skin ; because that's true.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
No, because Rayner didn't use an internet conspiracy meme in parliament, to protect herself from an allegation of lying, which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
Also, she was factually correct.
Increasingly looks like an astute piece of observation by Ms Rayner, even if she was half cut at the bar.
It is this sort of double standards - or as what @Anabobazina also refers to it as 'whataboutery' when pointed out - that causes the problems we have in public life. You reap what you sow.
The simple fact is that many on this site think it is ok for tories to be called all the names and harrassed in public etc, but if it happens to Our Lord SKS then it is the worst thing in the world. Basically all tories are scum.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
So if Johnson hadn’t made the comment the demo wouldn’t have happened? Have you watched the footage?
The demo would have happened, the specific Savile-related abuse not.
Given what the same people did to Gove, you seem to be arguing that "you protected (a named paedophile)" is qualitatively - not merely quantitatively - worse than "you protected paedophiles".
And that's ignoring the "B followed A, therefore A caused B" assumption.
It is, because of who is saying it, and the circumstances they're saying it in.
It follows a very specific Trumpian template. In mortal danger ? Acquiesce with internet memes linking your leading opponent with paedophilia. No one in the LD's, Labour or Greens has ever done anything like that to Gove.
Are you seriously suggesting that those that surrounded SKS yesterday were only doing it because of what BJ said, despite 99% of what they were shouting having nothing to do with Saville.
I'm suggesting that the a large part of what they were shouting at Starmer was only to do with what the Prime Minister did , to try and save his skin ; because that's true.
Savile references were not a "large part" of what they were shouting.
More or less off topic, listened to the latest episode of R4’s The Gathering Storm which featured a lot of Mike Flynn. He seems to be the absolute boy for QAnonists and Trumpers. Is there any chance of him being a candidate in 2024 or will it be his endorsement that counts?
Gen. Flynn has fallen out of favour with the qanon lot after that other fucking nutcase Lin Wood released a recording of Flynn describing Qanon as total nonsense.
There is no way the 2024 GOP candidate is anybody but Trump.
Unless the GOP win back the House and Senate in November I don't think Trump will run again. Pence remains my long shot prediction for GOP nominee
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
That may be true, but it is a decision for the Ukranian people - not for a strong man and his 100,000 troops.
Not the Ukrainian people as a whole. The people in the disputed areas.
We should be applying pressure to the Ukraine to allow plebiscites in these disputed areas.
Despite the belief of almost everyone on pb.com, a plebiscite in the Crimea will actually reveal that the overwhelmingly Russian population wants to be in Russia.
It is in Ukraine's interests to have the plebiscites.
They will lose less territory this way. They will lose more territory in any war.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
You are repeating the same bollocks you posted on the last thread.
There is no justification for doing something bad just because someone else did something bad, which is what you are saying.
You don't seem to get this at all do you?
As I replied to you on the last thread it is not a defence in a court of law for a mass murderer to say to the judge well Fred West did it so it is ok for me to do it isn't? I think the judge and jury will take a dim view.
So Javid wants to get the NHS waiting list time below a year by March 2025? I remember it being 18 weeks in the bad old days of the Labour government.
I'm finalising my proposed contract to go PAYE. For the first time ever I am not just taking private health insurance, I am writing it in blood into the contract.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
So if Johnson hadn’t made the comment the demo wouldn’t have happened? Have you watched the footage?
The demo would have happened, the specific Savile-related abuse not.
Given what the same people did to Gove, you seem to be arguing that "you protected (a named paedophile)" is qualitatively - not merely quantitatively - worse than "you protected paedophiles".
And that's ignoring the "B followed A, therefore A caused B" assumption.
It is, because of who is saying it, and the circumstances they're saying it in.
It follows a very specific Trumpian template. In mortal danger ? Acquiesce with internet memes linking your leading opponent with paedophilia. No one in the LD's, Labour or Greens has ever done anything like that to Gove.
Are you seriously suggesting that those that surrounded SKS yesterday were only doing it because of what BJ said, despite 99% of what they were shouting having nothing to do with Saville.
I'm suggesting that the a large part of what they were shouting at Starmer was only to do with what the Prime Minister did , to try and save his skin ; because that's true.
Savile references were not a "large part" of what they were shouting.
Certainly sounded an important enough part of it to get them very riled, to me.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
No, because Rayner didn't use an internet conspiracy meme in parliament, to protect herself from an allegation of lying, which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
Also, she was factually correct.
Increasingly looks like an astute piece of observation by Ms Rayner, even if she was half cut at the bar.
It is this sort of double standards - or as what @Anabobazina also refers to it as 'whataboutery' when pointed out - that causes the problems we have in public life. You reap what you sow.
The simple fact is that many on this site think it is ok for tories to be called all the names and harrassed in public etc, but if it happens to Our Lord SKS then it is the worst thing in the world. Basically all tories are scum.
"Simple fact". If that's the case, how many here think that ?
I like Tugendhat but think it highly unlikely he gets to the final 2. More likely Hunt would face Sunak in the membership vote or a rightwinger like Truss or Raab or Patel.
I also think the Leaver Sunak would easily beat the former Remainer Tugendhat in any membership vote.
Agreed, Huyfd.
Even if they don't like what you say, I would advise punters to heed your words in such matters.
A long shot prediction, but it seems to me that if there is a new PM in the near future anyone in the current government is too tarred with the brush to be a credible candidate.
Sunak's choice was between Boris loyalism or resignation. The Savile remarks were the last chance to get out. He has chosen an uneasy path between the two.
The final two will be out of Hunt, Tugendhat and a couple of other non government figures. FWIW I think it will be close between Hunt and Tugendhat. Either would enable several million people (including me) to take the Tories seriously again, though I doubt if either could beat SKS+ the centre left alliance in the next GE.
The long shot nature of this prediction is that it requires an outbreak of sanity among a majority of the Tory MPs. Here's hoping.
I think you are right on any of the current Cabinet not having a chance.
The lack of a move by Sunak is not that big a surprise when you look at his work background - Goldmans and a hedge fund. Not the sort of people who do anything without rationalising things to the nth degree rather than go with their gut (Sunak wasn't that type of hedge fund guy). I think he has been looking at the polls and thinking "I'm not sure about this". He's probably hoping now he can stay until; BJ steps down and then launch his bid. The problem with that is that BJ bears grudges and will chop him off at the knees. By then, it is too late.
I think what the current Conservative MP reaction has also shown is that anyone from the Remainer, Home Counties Tory list of candidates is unlikely to have much of a chance. This was the moment for them to at least attempt a takeover by using BJ's sins to cast him out. They have failed.
Re betting, look for the ERG / Red Wall combo for the surprise candidate. I've mentioned this several times before before but I've put money on McVey at 100/1 (straight bet, no trading involved in case anyone asks). Sacked by Boris but Cabinet experience, would have support from both ERG and Red Wall divide, anti-lockdowner so no association there and has stood before (although badly). If you don't fancy that bet, look for someone who can combine the two factions together - it's a powerful combo in the election race.
Tend to agree, someone like Mordaunt is probably a value bet and can see how she could reunite the Conservative party. Can't take McVey seriously though.
A lot of people couldn't take BJ seriously as well...but know what you mean. However, that's probably why she is 100/1.
Not sure re Mordaunt. Yes, on the pro-Brexit side but she is a southern MP with no clear roots in the North. She is a bit of a Brexiteer version of Liz Truss.
What links to the north does Boris have?
He doesn't. It's a discussion about betting on the next leader.
My point being that not having links to the north didn’t do Boris any harm.
Who was the last Tory leader with links to the North? Hague? And before him, I would suggest Macmillan, MP for Stockton on and off until 1945, Churchill, MP for first Oldham and then Manchester North West, and before that Balfour, MP for Manchester East?
There haven't exactly been lots. Before that just about the only one would have been Derby.
Eden also grew up in his family seat in County Durham
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
Why new vaccines tailored to new variants of Covid might be a waste of time... https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/omicron-boosters-and-original-antigenic-sin ...Macaque monkeys were dosed twice, four weeks apart, with the standard Moderna coronavirus vaccine, and then 41 weeks later one group of them got a booster of the same shot, while another got a booster of the new one with an Omicron variant sequence. Subsequent tests for neutralizing antibody levels, B-cell expansion, and response to a challenge with the Omicron virus itself showed that there was no difference between the two treatments at all... ...The authors believe that this is most likely due to the phenomenon known (catchily) as "original antigenic sin", or less rousingly, antibody imprinting. That's been seen in many immune responses to many different antigens over the years. A person's first exposure to a type of virus, for example, can have a noticeable effect on their later responses to similar ones. This is most easily demonstrated with flu viruses, which notoriously change from year to year within a couple of broad families (influenza A and B ). The first flu you get as a child or infant can set you up for your ability to respond to various later varieties, but it should be noted that this can be either a less robust or a more robust response later on. Similarly, there's some evidence of immunological imprinting having an effect in the current pandemic based on responses to earlier types of coronavirus infection. That's one reason I don't like the "original sin" phrasing, because it makes things sound like the consequences are always some sort of irreparable wound. In reality, it can go either way. The exact mechanisms behind this effect aren't completely worked out - you can easily see how memory B and T cells could respond more quickly to a close-but-not-quite later infection, but there's clearly more to it than that....
So Javid wants to get the NHS waiting list time below a year by March 2025? I remember it being 18 weeks in the bad old days of the Labour government.
I'm finalising my proposed contract to go PAYE. For the first time ever I am not just taking private health insurance, I am writing it in blood into the contract.
I hope you didn't support lockdowns.
Huh?
People who supported lockdowns have no right to complain about their inevitable consequences.
More or less off topic, listened to the latest episode of R4’s The Gathering Storm which featured a lot of Mike Flynn. He seems to be the absolute boy for QAnonists and Trumpers. Is there any chance of him being a candidate in 2024 or will it be his endorsement that counts?
Gen. Flynn has fallen out of favour with the qanon lot after that other fucking nutcase Lin Wood released a recording of Flynn describing Qanon as total nonsense.
There is no way the 2024 GOP candidate is anybody but Trump.
Unless the GOP win back the House and Senate in November I don't think Trump will run again. Pence remains my long shot prediction for GOP nominee
Good piece today in Nate Silver's Site on just that question, Hyufd.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart.
I think it is very, very, very unlikely that N Ireland will be with us in 50 years.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
The mercury is threatening to burst out the top of my whataboutometer this morning.
A stunning contender for “World’s most convoluted admission by an elderly Scotsman that he is actually having a wank”
You seem feisty if resolutely leaden footed today. Jet lagged or still kicking the arse out of World of Dildos expenses in Colombo?
Certainly quite chipper
The Sri Lankans have finally - FINALLY - realised who I am - an era-defining knapper with my own column on the Gazette - and they are suddenly throwing freebies at me
Got dinner, this eve, at supposedly the best Indian in the capital
And on Thursday I've been invited to THE BEST CRAB RESTAURANT IN THE WORLD (and the "29th best restaurant in Asia") where they are "curating" me a meal
That won't keep him busy. And isn't that a demotion out of cabinet?
Leader of the House was not technically a Cabinet position, the number of which is limited by law, so a number of ministers attend Cabinet on an unpaid basis. Whether JRM will continue to attend Cabinet meetings, who knows?
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
You are repeating the same bollocks you posted on the last thread.
There is no justification for doing something bad just because someone else did something bad, which is what you are saying.
You don't seem to get this at all do you?
As I replied to you on the last thread it is not a defence in a court of law for a mass murderer to say to the judge well Fred West did it so it is ok for me to do it isn't? I think the judge and jury will take a dim view.
It's not a defence in court but this is politics where we have to choose where to cast our vote. Hence it is perfectly justified to look at what the other side is doing when deciding where to put your cross on the ballot paper.
The best example being, for me, the 2019 election when those arseholes in the Labour Party forced me to vote for Boris Johnson of all people because they had a leader who would have been 1,000,000 times worse.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
Putin is behaving as a gangster.
Who is to say what the "nation" is. You?
Recognised by the UN, so a de facto state recognised in international law by all UN members.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart.
I think it is very, very, very unlikely that N Ireland will be with us in 50 years.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
Even my mother (a DUP voter) thinks that NI will separate from GB. She says it has already started
More or less off topic, listened to the latest episode of R4’s The Gathering Storm which featured a lot of Mike Flynn. He seems to be the absolute boy for QAnonists and Trumpers. Is there any chance of him being a candidate in 2024 or will it be his endorsement that counts?
Gen. Flynn has fallen out of favour with the qanon lot after that other fucking nutcase Lin Wood released a recording of Flynn describing Qanon as total nonsense.
There is no way the 2024 GOP candidate is anybody but Trump.
Unless the GOP win back the House and Senate in November I don't think Trump will run again. Pence remains my long shot prediction for GOP nominee
Good piece today in Nate Silver's Site on just that question, Hyufd.
Exec Summary: GOP will do well and possibly win back both.
The House will go GOP, the Senate won't in my view. Remember the only seat in the Senate up in 2022 the Democrats hold which voted for Trump in 2020 is Georgia.
Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania are all GOP held but Biden won them and also up, so the Democrats could even make gains.
Remember too the last 2 times the House changed majority party in 2010 and 2018 the Senate did not
On topic. I agree with Mike. In fact it was TSE who posted a couple of weeks ago in the leadership election (which looked possible back then, lot less likely now) he wouldn’t vote for anyone in the current government. A couple of weeks ago I thought Rishi Sunak was shoe in if there was a vacancy, I now think he has next to no chance. If it’s true there is photo of Sunak at lockdown Party stood next to Boris, both with glass in hand, that finishes Sunak as candidate this time around, or do you disagree with that? How can you disagree with that, both Boris and Sunak would get same slap from police.
From outside the cabinet I also think Mark Harper is in with serious chance. In the mad Monday debate, where Boris was abysmal and enshrined his legacy as Britain’s Trump, Harper politely acknowledged Diane Abbot and asked the same question. He speaks very well.
very much on Topic, if it’s Harper v Tugendhat who wins? Harper easily wins that, as Turgendhat will appeal to those who want to move the Conservatives to centre, Harper appeal to those who want to keep it off to the right, Harper will get support of more MPs and more Party members, keep us to the right no drift to centre easily wins the next Tory leadership contest, there’s currently more votes for the platform.
What part of my analysis are you saying is wrong, and why?
There were several events. If Gray/the Met say the event at which Sunak was pictured was OK, but other events involving Johnson but not Sunak were illegal/immoral, then Sunak will be fine as a candidate.
NEW: Jacob Rees-Mogg has been appointed to minister for "Brexit Opportunities and Government efficiency" in the Cabinet Office. He will attend Cabinet, but it's a demotion to Minister of State.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
So if Johnson hadn’t made the comment the demo wouldn’t have happened? Have you watched the footage?
The demo would have happened, the specific Savile-related abuse not.
Given what the same people did to Gove, you seem to be arguing that "you protected (a named paedophile)" is qualitatively - not merely quantitatively - worse than "you protected paedophiles".
And that's ignoring the "B followed A, therefore A caused B" assumption.
It is, because of who is saying it, and the circumstances they're saying it in.
It follows a very specific Trumpian template. In mortal danger ? Acquiesce with internet memes linking your leading opponent with paedophilia. No one in the LD's, Labour or Greens has ever done anything like that to Gove.
Trump / Trumpian could become a new reference point for the dividing line between acceptable and unacceptable populist behaviour. Hitler doesn't quite cut it - too far in the past and too extreme. To make the test meaningful I think he needs to be compared with another populist whose stayed on the right side of acceptable. Like, I dunno, Berlusconi.
When a senior politician does or says something that causes outrage, ask yourself "is this something Trump would have done but Berlusconi wouldn't?" If so, then it's crossed the line. (obviously the Berlusconi measure would need to be tweaked if in relation to personal financial probity).
On the left, where the transgressive behaviour tends to involve inciting mob hatred of opponents or cosying up to unsavoury foreign dictators, the equivalent threshold might be Corbyn or Melenchon, vis a vis someone on the safe side of the line like say Varoufakis.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart.
I think it is very, very, very unlikely that N Ireland will be with us in 50 years.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
Even my mother (a DUP voter) thinks that NI will separate from GB. She says it has already started
It hasn't, Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI.
Plus if Starmer becomes PM in 2024 as polls predict, he will align GB closer to the EEA and CU effectively removing the Irish Sea border anyway
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
No, because Rayner didn't use an internet conspiracy meme in parliament, to protect herself from an allegation of lying, which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
Also, she was factually correct.
Increasingly looks like an astute piece of observation by Ms Rayner, even if she was half cut at the bar.
It is this sort of double standards - or as what @Anabobazina also refers to it as 'whataboutery' when pointed out - that causes the problems we have in public life. You reap what you sow.
The simple fact is that many on this site think it is ok for tories to be called all the names and harrassed in public etc, but if it happens to Our Lord SKS then it is the worst thing in the world. Basically all tories are scum.
"Simple fact". If that's the case, how many here think that ?
You only have to look through the comments on here to see that, and it is not just the hard left types.
There are plenty of "well, it would be justified if someone harassed BJ because he was wrong" comments and Angela Rayner's comments were "prescient". There was crickets when the video of Gove was shown. No one from those posters on the left rushed to condemn what happened, far more tried to do their own - to use an Anabob phrase - whataboutery by saying "ah yes but Gove wasn't accused in the Commons with a false accusation etc".
The left has a problem in this country with its mindset. I exclude @NickPalmer from this because he clearly doesn't (as don't a few others) but, just to let you know, what you think of clever logic leaps and differences of degree, most people see as hypocrisy and double standards. And people don't tend to vote for those with double standards.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
No, because Rayner didn't use an internet conspiracy meme in parliament, to protect herself from an allegation of lying, which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
Also, she was factually correct.
Increasingly looks like an astute piece of observation by Ms Rayner, even if she was half cut at the bar.
It is this sort of double standards - or as what @Anabobazina also refers to it as 'whataboutery' when pointed out - that causes the problems we have in public life. You reap what you sow.
The simple fact is that many on this site think it is ok for tories to be called all the names and harrassed in public etc, but if it happens to Our Lord SKS then it is the worst thing in the world. Basically all tories are scum.
No we don't. That is in your imagination. In fact I said just this on the last thread in a chat with @MrEd that if anything the Tories get more abuse in street than anyone else. However as I repeat yet once again to you, you seem to be making excuses for bad behaviour and that it is ok to behave badly just because others do it. It is not.
In that direction lies anarchy as @Malmesbury so eloquently demonstrated with his two pictures of armed men on either side in the USA in the last thread.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
Putin is behaving as a gangster.
Who is to say what the "nation" is. You?
Do you support our 1994 Treaty commitment?
The only reason I would support secession from Ukraine of say Crimea would be if was done under free and fair elections. However it's interesting how people who argue for the right of those to be free of Kiev rule also seem to assume that such breakaway entities would 'naturally' be satellites of Moscow.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
Putin is behaving as a gangster.
Who is to say what the "nation" is. You?
Recognised by the UN, so a de facto state recognised in international law by all UN members.
You want to abandon all that ?
The UN has organised plebiscites in disputed territories before.
NEW: Jacob Rees-Mogg has been appointed to minister for "Brexit Opportunities and Government efficiency" in the Cabinet Office. He will attend Cabinet, but it's a demotion to Minister of State.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
No, because Rayner didn't use an internet conspiracy meme in parliament, to protect herself from an allegation of lying, which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
Also, she was factually correct.
Increasingly looks like an astute piece of observation by Ms Rayner, even if she was half cut at the bar.
It is this sort of double standards - or as what @Anabobazina also refers to it as 'whataboutery' when pointed out - that causes the problems we have in public life. You reap what you sow.
The simple fact is that many on this site think it is ok for tories to be called all the names and harrassed in public etc, but if it happens to Our Lord SKS then it is the worst thing in the world. Basically all tories are scum.
No we don't. That is in your imagination. In fact I said just this on the last thread in a chat with @MrEd that if anything the Tories get more abuse in street than anyone else. However as I repeat yet once again to you, you seem to be making excuses for bad behaviour and that it is ok to behave badly just because others do it. It is not.
In that direction lies anarchy as @Malmesbury so eloquently demonstrated with his two pictures of armed men on either side in the last thread.
Which you certainly did to be fair. And I don't have you in mind when detailing the types who seem to absolve behaviour by left-wing thugs but condemn it on the right.
NEW: Jacob Rees-Mogg has been appointed to minister for "Brexit Opportunities and Government efficiency" in the Cabinet Office. He will attend Cabinet, but it's a demotion to Minister of State.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
Putin is behaving as a gangster.
Who is to say what the "nation" is. You?
Recognised by the UN, so a de facto state recognised in international law by all UN members.
I like Tugendhat but think it highly unlikely he gets to the final 2. More likely Hunt would face Sunak in the membership vote or a rightwinger like Truss or Raab or Patel.
I also think the Leaver Sunak would easily beat the former Remainer Tugendhat in any membership vote.
Agreed. OGH is safe in his Rishi bet if Tugendhat is the other option.
I actually think he is safe in his bet regardless of who Rishi faces - unless it is discovered Rishi is the Downing Street partymeister....
NEW: Jacob Rees-Mogg has been appointed to minister for "Brexit Opportunities and Government efficiency" in the Cabinet Office. He will attend Cabinet, but it's a demotion to Minister of State.
Eh? Graun feed says different. "Jacob Rees-Mogg has got a new job. He was leader of the Commons, but is now minister for Brexit opportunities and government officiency. The No 10 announcement says he will be a minister of state but a member of the cabinet.
Effectively this is a sideways move. As leader of the Commons, Rees-Mogg had a higher profile. But technically he only attended cabinet, rather than attended as a full member, and so in one respect he is moving up."
Despite the belief of almost everyone on pb.com, a plebiscite in the Crimea will actually reveal that the overwhelmingly Russian population wants to be in Russia.
Plebiscite at gunpoint after invasion? Is it July 1940 again?
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart.
I think it is very, very, very unlikely that N Ireland will be with us in 50 years.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
Even my mother (a DUP voter) thinks that NI will separate from GB. She says it has already started
It hasn't, Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI.
Plus if Starmer becomes PM in 2024 as polls predict, he will align GB closer to the EEA and CU effectively removing the Irish Sea border anyway
So at least and last you accept that there is an Irish Sea border. Something, lest we forget, that a very distinguished person said no British PM could or should ever allow to happen.
NEW: Jacob Rees-Mogg has been appointed to minister for "Brexit Opportunities and Government efficiency" in the Cabinet Office. He will attend Cabinet, but it's a demotion to Minister of State.
Eh? Graun feed says different. "Jacob Rees-Mogg has got a new job. He was leader of the Commons, but is now minister for Brexit opportunities and government officiency. The No 10 announcement says he will be a minister of state but a member of the cabinet.
Effectively this is a sideways move. As leader of the Commons, Rees-Mogg had a higher profile. But technically he only attended cabinet, rather than attended as a full member, and so in one respect he is moving up."
Good move by Boris, though not quite sure whether the role matches the grand title for JRM.
The Left - from the top down - has been smearing, abusing and dehumanizing the Tories for decades. From Nye Bevan calling them “lower than vermin” to Angela Rayner’s “racist scum” to those lefty wankers spitting and howling at tories going into their Conference in Manchester
So they can fuck off with this moaning about Starmer. No one has called him a rat or a Nazi. The narcissistic mewling is pathetic
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart.
I think it is very, very, very unlikely that N Ireland will be with us in 50 years.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
Even my mother (a DUP voter) thinks that NI will separate from GB. She says it has already started
It hasn't, Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI.
Plus if Starmer becomes PM in 2024 as polls predict, he will align GB closer to the EEA and CU effectively removing the Irish Sea border anyway
It's the total of NONUnionist parties that counts. The folk in the middle are not going to be very impressed with the rUK government, and even less so with Mr Johnson than the Scots. Remember his personal rating is down there in the Moho level in NI.
So Javid wants to get the NHS waiting list time below a year by March 2025? I remember it being 18 weeks in the bad old days of the Labour government.
I'm finalising my proposed contract to go PAYE. For the first time ever I am not just taking private health insurance, I am writing it in blood into the contract.
I hope you didn't support lockdowns.
Huh?
People who supported lockdowns have no right to complain about their inevitable consequences.
Absolutely. "Saving the NHS" has been a disaster for the long-term NHS.
If the NHS hadn't been "saved" then it would have been overwhelmed, people would have died, but the dead don't feature on waiting lists for the NHS. After the shock of people dying, the NHS would have been able to do its day job, instead of refusing to do so for two years.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
Putin is behaving as a gangster.
Who is to say what the "nation" is. You?
Do you support our 1994 Treaty commitment?
The only reason I would support secession from Ukraine of say Crimea would be if was done under free and fair elections. However it's interesting how people who argue for the right of those to be free of Kiev rule also seem to assume that such breakaway entities would 'naturally' be satellites of Moscow.
Nationalism is a funny beast. You might live in Kiev or Kilkenny and have wildly different views about "your" nation(s - before anyone thinks that Kilkenny is an inalienable part of Ukraine).
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
No, because Rayner didn't use an internet conspiracy meme in parliament, to protect herself from an allegation of lying, which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
Also, she was factually correct.
Increasingly looks like an astute piece of observation by Ms Rayner, even if she was half cut at the bar.
It is this sort of double standards - or as what @Anabobazina also refers to it as 'whataboutery' when pointed out - that causes the problems we have in public life. You reap what you sow.
The simple fact is that many on this site think it is ok for tories to be called all the names and harrassed in public etc, but if it happens to Our Lord SKS then it is the worst thing in the world. Basically all tories are scum.
"Simple fact". If that's the case, how many here think that ?
You only have to look through the comments on here to see that, and it is not just the hard left types.
There are plenty of "well, it would be justified if someone harassed BJ because he was wrong" comments and Angela Rayner's comments were "prescient". There was crickets when the video of Gove was shown. No one from those posters on the left rushed to condemn what happened, far more tried to do their own - to use an Anabob phrase - whataboutery by saying "ah yes but Gove wasn't accused in the Commons with a false accusation etc".
The left has a problem in this country with its mindset. I exclude @NickPalmer from this because he clearly doesn't (as don't a few others) but, just to let you know, what you think of clever logic leaps and differences of degree, most people see as hypocrisy and double standards. And people don't tend to vote for those with double standards.
I agree with your last sentence. Which is what BJ is guilty of: making rules for the whole nation which he then failed to apply to himself and his staff. Double standards, eh?
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart.
I think it is very, very, very unlikely that N Ireland will be with us in 50 years.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
Even my mother (a DUP voter) thinks that NI will separate from GB. She says it has already started
It hasn't, Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI.
Plus if Starmer becomes PM in 2024 as polls predict, he will align GB closer to the EEA and CU effectively removing the Irish Sea border anyway
It's the total of NONUnionist parties that counts. The folk in the middle are not going to be very impressed with the rUK government, and even less so with Mr Johnson than the Scots. Remember his personal rating is down there in the Moho level in NI.
The Alliance is the middle party and still opposes a border poll
The Left - from the top down - has been smearing, abusing and dehumanizing the Tories for decades. From Nye Bevan calling them “lower than vermin” to Angela Rayner’s “racist scum” to those lefty wankers spitting and howling at tories going into their Conference in Manchester
So they can fuck off with this moaning about Starmer. No one has called him a rat or a Nazi. The narcissistic mewling is pathetic
Conservative politicians, and especially Conservative Prime Ministers, should not be descending to the levels of Angela Rayner and the 'lefty wankers'. Particularly when the LOTO has higher standards.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
And she apologised for saying it, IIRC. Where is Johnson's apology? Nowhere to be seen, because he is utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life.
Fairs fair - Give him another 3 weeks - it took her a month!
So if he apologises sooner than that Rayner will be utterly without any shred of human decency, a rancid turd floating in the swimming pool of British political life?
So much for the moral high ground and improving discourse in public life!
No, because Rayner didn't use an internet conspiracy meme in parliament, to protect herself from an allegation of lying, which then caused a specific problem straight outside.
Also, she was factually correct.
Increasingly looks like an astute piece of observation by Ms Rayner, even if she was half cut at the bar.
It is this sort of double standards - or as what @Anabobazina also refers to it as 'whataboutery' when pointed out - that causes the problems we have in public life. You reap what you sow.
The simple fact is that many on this site think it is ok for tories to be called all the names and harrassed in public etc, but if it happens to Our Lord SKS then it is the worst thing in the world. Basically all tories are scum.
"Simple fact". If that's the case, how many here think that ?
You only have to look through the comments on here to see that, and it is not just the hard left types.
There are plenty of "well, it would be justified if someone harassed BJ because he was wrong" comments and Angela Rayner's comments were "prescient". There was crickets when the video of Gove was shown. No one from those posters on the left rushed to condemn what happened, far more tried to do their own - to use an Anabob phrase - whataboutery by saying "ah yes but Gove wasn't accused in the Commons with a false accusation etc".
The left has a problem in this country with its mindset. I exclude @NickPalmer from this because he clearly doesn't (as don't a few others) but, just to let you know, what you think of clever logic leaps and differences of degree, most people see as hypocrisy and double standards. And people don't tend to vote for those with double standards.
I agree with your last sentence. Which is what BJ is guilty of: making rules for the whole nation which he then failed to apply to himself and his staff. Double standards, eh?
Absolutely. It's not a defence of BJ. It's a criticism of the mindset that see the Right as legitimate targets of abuse.
Interesting appointment. A job of going through the mound of EU legislation that was transposed into UK law, and identifying what can be got rid of.
A couple of good ideas already today, in revising the transport compensation scheme and not adopting the new EU car standards (which are easy if you’re VW Group or Daimler, but a pain in the arse if you’re Lotus or Aston Martin, let alone Ariel or Caterham).
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart.
I think it is very, very, very unlikely that N Ireland will be with us in 50 years.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
Even my mother (a DUP voter) thinks that NI will separate from GB. She says it has already started
It hasn't, Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI.
Plus if Starmer becomes PM in 2024 as polls predict, he will align GB closer to the EEA and CU effectively removing the Irish Sea border anyway
So, Expert From Epping knows more about DUP voters than a DUP voter?
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
The state of this
The fact that Owls and Jezziah are now PB Tories really tells you anything more you need to know about the far ‘left’.
Politics is not a line, it’s a horseshoe. The far right and the far left have more in common with each other than they do with decent folk near the centre.
Both the Tories and Labour need a purge. Labour are well underway. The Tories haven’t even started.
PR. Let these people exist in their own fringe parties where the electorate can give them the support they deserve. The current system encourages entryism, which encourages bad behaviour from politicians like Corbyn and Boris. And the poor saps who are stuck voting for the party end up defending the indefensible.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
Putin is behaving as a gangster.
Who is to say what the "nation" is. You?
Do you support our 1994 Treaty commitment?
The only reason I would support secession from Ukraine of say Crimea would be if was done under free and fair elections. However it's interesting how people who argue for the right of those to be free of Kiev rule also seem to assume that such breakaway entities would 'naturally' be satellites of Moscow.
Nationalism is a funny beast. You might live in Kiev or Kilkenny and have wildly different views about "your" nation(s - before anyone thinks that Kilkenny is an inalienable part of Ukraine).
Which is why it is probably best to stick to international treaties and democratic processes, no? And if you want to entrust those processes to Mr Putin, 22 years in power and counting, I have a bridge to sell you.
Despite the belief of almost everyone on pb.com, a plebiscite in the Crimea will actually reveal that the overwhelmingly Russian population wants to be in Russia.
Plebiscite at gunpoint after invasion? Is it July 1940 again?
I think Russia was wrong to take Crimea by force ... but there was also no way that Ukraine would have allowed a plebiscite on secession, so Ukraine was wrong as well.
Yet again, if there is a massive war, Ukraine will lose more territory than if some plebiscites are held in Luhansk and Donetsk.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire. *
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
(* Or the UK)
Are you suggesting these things are best determined by Mr Putin? Also I find it rather arrogant of you to assume that the UK will inevitably fall apart.
I think it is very, very, very unlikely that N Ireland will be with us in 50 years.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
Even my mother (a DUP voter) thinks that NI will separate from GB. She says it has already started
It hasn't, Unionist Parties still win more votes than Nationalist Parties in NI.
Plus if Starmer becomes PM in 2024 as polls predict, he will align GB closer to the EEA and CU effectively removing the Irish Sea border anyway
It's the total of NONUnionist parties that counts. The folk in the middle are not going to be very impressed with the rUK government, and even less so with Mr Johnson than the Scots. Remember his personal rating is down there in the Moho level in NI.
The Alliance is the middle party and still opposes a border poll
How much longer? Even now they are certainly open to it - not 'opposes', so much as not supporting it but ...
The Left - from the top down - has been smearing, abusing and dehumanizing the Tories for decades. From Nye Bevan calling them “lower than vermin” to Angela Rayner’s “racist scum” to those lefty wankers spitting and howling at tories going into their Conference in Manchester
So they can fuck off with this moaning about Starmer. No one has called him a rat or a Nazi. The narcissistic mewling is pathetic
Yeah, just a harmless association with a paedophile.
A meme popular with those who are known for their sanity and restraint.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
It is perfectly reasonable to believe that the boundaries of the Ukraine SSR within the USSR are not sensible boundaries for an independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine, as currently configured, is like Yugoslavia, or the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Things will fall apart. They can fall apart slowly or quickly. Slow will cause more damage than quick.
Supporting the remaking of nation's boundaries by the threat of, or use of armed force is not 'perfectly reasonable'.
Putin is behaving as a gangster.
Who is to say what the "nation" is. You?
Do you support our 1994 Treaty commitment?
The only reason I would support secession from Ukraine of say Crimea would be if was done under free and fair elections. However it's interesting how people who argue for the right of those to be free of Kiev rule also seem to assume that such breakaway entities would 'naturally' be satellites of Moscow.
I think we struggle to get our heads around situations like Ukraine because we are so unfamiliar with the emotions behind irredentism. It simply does not exist in the UK in any meaningful way: the equivalent would be people here yearning to reclaim Ireland for the union, or still feeling the pain and national humiliation of the American war of independence.
Separatism that leads to independence (see Ireland, USA, possibly Scotland in due course) is a very different beast from separatism that extends the influence of a hostile power, like Ukraine or the many frozen conflicts from Transnistria to Abkhazia to Nagorno Karabakh.
I am trying to think of a recent example of a plebiscite or other peaceful constitutional settlement that led to the transfer of sovereignty from one larger power to another, rather than for a larger power to a fledgling new country. I suppose German reunification comes closest, but E Germany was not an integral part of a larger state, just a military alliance.
NEW: Jacob Rees-Mogg has been appointed to minister for "Brexit Opportunities and Government efficiency" in the Cabinet Office. He will attend Cabinet, but it's a demotion to Minister of State.
Eh? Graun feed says different. "Jacob Rees-Mogg has got a new job. He was leader of the Commons, but is now minister for Brexit opportunities and government officiency. The No 10 announcement says he will be a minister of state but a member of the cabinet.
Effectively this is a sideways move. As leader of the Commons, Rees-Mogg had a higher profile. But technically he only attended cabinet, rather than attended as a full member, and so in one respect he is moving up."
Good move by Boris, though not quite sure whether the role matches the grand title for JRM.
Stuart Andrew new Leader of the House
Mark Spencer is Leader, Stuart Andrew housing minister
The video of Starmer being hounded is extremely distressing. What is happening to our country.
It's nothing new, unfortunately.
I don’t recall this bleating when Farage was attacked. Or indeed Douglas Carswell in circs very similar to Starmer
Most of us are rightly appalled by physical attacks on anyone, politicians included.
The point that you and the other Johnson apologists are trying to distract us from is that this attack on Starmer was caused, in part at least, by your man's slurs about Savile, slurs that brave sir Boris won't have the guts to repeat outside parliament.
Mr. Oracle, if Corbyn didn't want to be compared to Stalin then it seems odd he'd happily march alongside banners of the genocidal maniac.
Well, on that basis one could might equally argue ; if Johnson didn't want to be accused of fascism, he shouldn't have used terms like the infamous good old "Surrender Bill" just before an election.
On topic. I agree with Mike. In fact it was TSE who posted a couple of weeks ago in the leadership election (which looked possible back then, lot less likely now) he wouldn’t vote for anyone in the current government. A couple of weeks ago I thought Rishi Sunak was shoe in if there was a vacancy, I now think he has next to no chance. If it’s true there is photo of Sunak at lockdown Party stood next to Boris, both with glass in hand, that finishes Sunak as candidate this time around, or do you disagree with that? How can you disagree with that, both Boris and Sunak would get same slap from police.
From outside the cabinet I also think Mark Harper is in with serious chance. In the mad Monday debate, where Boris was abysmal and enshrined his legacy as Britain’s Trump, Harper politely acknowledged Diane Abbot and asked the same question. He speaks very well.
very much on Topic, if it’s Harper v Tugendhat who wins? Harper easily wins that, as Turgendhat will appeal to those who want to move the Conservatives to centre, Harper appeal to those who want to keep it off to the right, Harper will get support of more MPs and more Party members, keep us to the right no drift to centre easily wins the next Tory leadership contest, there’s currently more votes for the platform.
What part of my analysis are you saying is wrong, and why?
There were several events. If Gray/the Met say the event at which Sunak was pictured was OK, but other events involving Johnson but not Sunak were illegal/immoral, then Sunak will be fine as a candidate.
Agreed. 🙂
But if the photo is as rumoured of Sunak and Boris stood together glass in hand in cabinet room at Johnson’s surprise birthday bash, Sunak’s chances of standing this time are zero aren’t they?
Where does calling a group of MPs "worse than Nazis" come in the "failed to prosecute Savile" to "vile Tory scum" scale?
"David Lammy says comparing ERG to Nazis ‘not strong enough’
David Lammy has said comparing the hard-Brexit European Research Group of Tory MPs to Nazis and proponents of South African apartheid was “not strong enough”, and suggested that the Brexit debate had allowed proponents of hard right views to flourish.
The Labour MP, who is a vocal campaigner for a second EU referendum, was asked on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show whether a comparison he previously made to the election of Adolf Hitler’s party in Germany and to South African white supremacists was appropriate.
“I would say that that wasn’t strong enough. In 1938 there were allies who hatched a plan for Hitler to annex part of Czechoslovakia, and Churchill said no, and he stood alone,” he said.
And what of various Tories accusing Corbyn of being a genocidal Stalinist, etc. We could go on here for hours.
The point is a fundamental change of both responding to internet conspiracy thinking, and bringing it straight into parliament as a last-ditch defence tactic. As mentioned many times now, the only person that is redolent of, is Trump.
Who exactly accused Corbyn of genocide?
Edit - And I'm certain that "worse than the Nazis" is a more terrible slur than "failed to prosecute Savile"
A pretty much the same example found immediately, for instance..
"The prime minister accused the Labour leader of victimising the country’s richest with a “relish and vindictiveness” not seen since the Soviet leader persecuted landowners in the 1930s."
Nothing about genocide then?
Not much different really, I wouldn't say. Johnson was essentially accusing him of wanting to do what Stalin did to landowners, which was class-based mass killing.
Corbyn employed Milne and Murray as his closest advisors.
Here's what that Tory rag Workers' Liberty has to say about them..
"Both Murray and Milne are frequently referred to in the bourgeois press as “Stalinists”. Some comrades may be inclined to dismiss this charge as right-wing slander. But both are on record defending Joseph Stalin. Here’s comrade Murray in the Morning Star of 17 December 1999 (yes, a while back, but there’s no evidence that he’s changed his opinion since):
“Next Tuesday is the 120th anniversary of the birth of Josef Stalin… you are still left paying your money and taking your choice. A socialist system embracing a third of the world and the defeat of Nazi Germany on the one hand. On the other, all accompanied by harsh measures imposed by a one-party regime.
“Nevertheless, if you believe that the worst crimes visited on humanity this century, from colonialism to Hiroshima and from concentration camps to mass poverty and unemployment have been caused by imperialism, then [Stalin’s birthday] might at least be a moment to ponder why the authors of those crimes and their hack propagandists abominate the name of Stalin beyond all others. It was, after all, Stalin’s best-known critic, Nikita Khrushchev, who remarked in 1956 that ‘against imperialists, we are all Stalinists’.”"
Here’s a good PB quiz, as I sip my gin under the tropical moon
Here are some kiwis protesting vax outside the NZ Parliament. From the groaniad
Look at he state of that building. Is this the ugliest Parliament building in the world, or is that still Holyrood? Can anyone think of a worse example?
Boris's dead cat worked. Week two and even the nation's premier politics site is still talking about the smear rather than any other issue that might threaten Boris's hegemony.
Yepp. I stupidly got involved myself this morning. Must ignore trolls.
Comments
Putin is behaving as a gangster.
It follows a very specific Trumpian template. In mortal danger ? Acquiesce with internet memes linking your leading opponent with paedophilia. No one in the LD's, Labour or Greens has ever done anything like that to Gove.
I also think the Leaver Sunak would easily beat the former Remainer Tugendhat in any membership vote.
It is a much more ethnically homogenous country than Russia itself.
2m
Breaking:
Jacob Rees-Mogg MP has been appointed as Minister for Brexit Opportunities
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1491039968269320192
I'm not sure what he does next.
We should be applying pressure to the Ukraine to allow plebiscites in these disputed areas.
Despite the belief of almost everyone on pb.com, a plebiscite in the Crimea will actually reveal that the overwhelmingly Russian population wants to be in Russia.
It is in Ukraine's interests to have the plebiscites.
They will lose less territory this way. They will lose more territory in any war.
There is no justification for doing something bad just because someone else did something bad, which is what you are saying.
You don't seem to get this at all do you?
As I replied to you on the last thread it is not a defence in a court of law for a mass murderer to say to the judge well Fred West did it so it is ok for me to do it isn't? I think the judge and jury will take a dim view.
Edit - I know the point is to allow the Chief Whip (who was sidelined) to become Leader of the House but even so...
If that's the case, how many here think that ?
Even if they don't like what you say, I would advise punters to heed your words in such matters.
https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/omicron-boosters-and-original-antigenic-sin
...Macaque monkeys were dosed twice, four weeks apart, with the standard Moderna coronavirus vaccine, and then 41 weeks later one group of them got a booster of the same shot, while another got a booster of the new one with an Omicron variant sequence. Subsequent tests for neutralizing antibody levels, B-cell expansion, and response to a challenge with the Omicron virus itself showed that there was no difference between the two treatments at all...
...The authors believe that this is most likely due to the phenomenon known (catchily) as "original antigenic sin", or less rousingly, antibody imprinting. That's been seen in many immune responses to many different antigens over the years. A person's first exposure to a type of virus, for example, can have a noticeable effect on their later responses to similar ones. This is most easily demonstrated with flu viruses, which notoriously change from year to year within a couple of broad families (influenza A and B ). The first flu you get as a child or infant can set you up for your ability to respond to various later varieties, but it should be noted that this can be either a less robust or a more robust response later on. Similarly, there's some evidence of immunological imprinting having an effect in the current pandemic based on responses to earlier types of coronavirus infection. That's one reason I don't like the "original sin" phrasing, because it makes things sound like the consequences are always some sort of irreparable wound. In reality, it can go either way. The exact mechanisms behind this effect aren't completely worked out - you can easily see how memory B and T cells could respond more quickly to a close-but-not-quite later infection, but there's clearly more to it than that....
https://fivethirtyeight.com/
Exec Summary: GOP will do well and possibly win back both.
And Scotland must also be at least evens to leave on that timescale.
It seems more arrogant to assume that the UK will carry on for ever as some immutable state.
First act: Jacob Rees-Mogg moved sideways to become Minister for Brexit Opportunities and Government Efficiency in the Cabinet Office. Stays in the Cabinet.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1491040530792599565
Even if the appointments are real.
The best example being, for me, the 2019 election when those arseholes in the Labour Party forced me to vote for Boris Johnson of all people because they had a leader who would have been 1,000,000 times worse.
You want to abandon all that ?
Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania are all GOP held but Biden won them and also up, so the Democrats could even make gains.
Remember too the last 2 times the House changed majority party in 2010 and 2018 the Senate did not
https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1491040323140988929?s=21
When a senior politician does or says something that causes outrage, ask yourself "is this something Trump would have done but Berlusconi wouldn't?" If so, then it's crossed the line. (obviously the Berlusconi measure would need to be tweaked if in relation to personal financial probity).
On the left, where the transgressive behaviour tends to involve inciting mob hatred of opponents or cosying up to unsavoury foreign dictators, the equivalent threshold might be Corbyn or Melenchon, vis a vis someone on the safe side of the line like say Varoufakis.
"Minister for Brexit Opportunities" is a bit "go and get me some tartan paint."
https://twitter.com/quantick/status/1491041973087916032
Plus if Starmer becomes PM in 2024 as polls predict, he will align GB closer to the EEA and CU effectively removing the Irish Sea border anyway
There are plenty of "well, it would be justified if someone harassed BJ because he was wrong" comments and Angela Rayner's comments were "prescient". There was crickets when the video of Gove was shown. No one from those posters on the left rushed to condemn what happened, far more tried to do their own - to use an Anabob phrase - whataboutery by saying "ah yes but Gove wasn't accused in the Commons with a false accusation etc".
The left has a problem in this country with its mindset. I exclude @NickPalmer from this because he clearly doesn't (as don't a few others) but, just to let you know, what you think of clever logic leaps and differences of degree, most people see as hypocrisy and double standards. And people don't tend to vote for those with double standards.
In that direction lies anarchy as @Malmesbury so eloquently demonstrated with his two pictures of armed men on either side in the USA in the last thread.
The only reason I would support secession from Ukraine of say Crimea would be if was done under free and fair elections. However it's interesting how people who argue for the right of those to be free of Kiev rule also seem to assume that such breakaway entities would 'naturally' be satellites of Moscow.
Let them do it again.
Lord snooty and Doris?
Sounds like a demotion to me. #lightweight
https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/1491043985367842817?s=20&t=dUHXwtPz7trg7AlnFxa4RQ
I actually think he is safe in his bet regardless of who Rishi faces - unless it is discovered Rishi is the Downing Street partymeister....
Effectively this is a sideways move. As leader of the Commons, Rees-Mogg had a higher profile. But technically he only attended cabinet, rather than attended as a full member, and so in one respect he is moving up."
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1491025243124555778?s=20&t=AUURS3CJ4WGLnKLdtdLLvg
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1491029747027042305?s=20&t=Nomb_bkqRy22DHh7U_xYHQ
Stuart Andrew new Leader of the House
So they can fuck off with this moaning about Starmer. No one has called him a rat or a Nazi. The narcissistic mewling is pathetic
If the NHS hadn't been "saved" then it would have been overwhelmed, people would have died, but the dead don't feature on waiting lists for the NHS. After the shock of people dying, the NHS would have been able to do its day job, instead of refusing to do so for two years.
A couple of good ideas already today, in revising the transport compensation scheme and not adopting the new EU car standards (which are easy if you’re VW Group or Daimler, but a pain in the arse if you’re Lotus or Aston Martin, let alone Ariel or Caterham).
Yet again, if there is a massive war, Ukraine will lose more territory than if some plebiscites are held in Luhansk and Donetsk.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/no-current-case-for-united-ireland-border-poll-alliance-party-1.4196502
A meme popular with those who are known for their sanity and restraint.
Separatism that leads to independence (see Ireland, USA, possibly Scotland in due course) is a very different beast from separatism that extends the influence of a hostile power, like Ukraine or the many frozen conflicts from Transnistria to Abkhazia to Nagorno Karabakh.
I am trying to think of a recent example of a plebiscite or other peaceful constitutional settlement that led to the transfer of sovereignty from one larger power to another, rather than for a larger power to a fledgling new country. I suppose German reunification comes closest, but E Germany was not an integral part of a larger state, just a military alliance.
The point that you and the other Johnson apologists are trying to distract us from is that this attack on Starmer was caused, in part at least, by your man's slurs about Savile, slurs that brave sir Boris won't have the guts to repeat outside parliament.
But if the photo is as rumoured of Sunak and Boris stood together glass in hand in cabinet room at Johnson’s surprise birthday bash, Sunak’s chances of standing this time are zero aren’t they?
Here's what that Tory rag Workers' Liberty has to say about them..
"Both Murray and Milne are frequently referred to in the bourgeois press as “Stalinists”. Some comrades may be inclined to dismiss this charge as right-wing slander. But both are on record defending Joseph Stalin. Here’s comrade Murray in the Morning Star of 17 December 1999 (yes, a while back, but there’s no evidence that he’s changed his opinion since):
“Next Tuesday is the 120th anniversary of the birth of Josef Stalin… you are still left paying your money and taking your choice. A socialist system embracing a third of the world and the defeat of Nazi Germany on the one hand. On the other, all accompanied by harsh measures imposed by a one-party regime.
“Nevertheless, if you believe that the worst crimes visited on humanity this century, from colonialism to Hiroshima and from concentration camps to mass poverty and unemployment have been caused by imperialism, then [Stalin’s birthday] might at least be a moment to ponder why the authors of those crimes and their hack propagandists abominate the name of Stalin beyond all others. It was, after all, Stalin’s best-known critic, Nikita Khrushchev, who remarked in 1956 that ‘against imperialists, we are all Stalinists’.”"
https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2019-03-20/stalinists-under-siege
Looks like a bit more truth to Corbyn=Stalinist than ERG>Nazis.
Here are some kiwis protesting vax outside the NZ Parliament. From the groaniad
Look at he state of that building. Is this the ugliest Parliament building in the world, or is that still Holyrood? Can anyone think of a worse example?
And what is the best?