Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
It's the Living Marxism / Spiked Online pipeline, they'd have ended up on it even if Corbyn was Prime Minister.
Spiked online were onboard with the whole smearing Corbyn thing. Spiked online think the Tories are good or some Tory views are good and left wing ones are bad, I mean they are probably more in line with Starmer himself.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
The Savile slur will only have any traction with voters who would never vote for Starmer in a million years.
Its impact is vastly reduced because most voters have now pegged Johnson as a compulsive liar. If May had said such such a thing it would have gained more traction, but I doubt she would have dreamed of stooping so low.
I disagree. There are a lot of voters who aren't paying enough attention to know what's been debunked and who's lying, they just come away with a vague impression that there was something about Starmer and Savile. This connection is then very easy to meme and amplify, because the Savile character is simultaneously kind of repulsive and entertaining.
We'll see when the next round of leader polls come out. If Starmer takes a hit I will revise my opinion.
Has a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn really just said Starmer is an anti-Semite with 'connections to paedophilia?'
Because if so, I am thinking @PBModerator might want to consider whether those posts should be left up.
The connections comment I agree with you on and I deleted it in my reply to him/her as I think it’s highly defamatory and untrue.
Wild and wholly inaccurate claims of anti semitism are not uncommon here. Why should The Jezziah be pulled up for it when others happily get away with such shite?
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Interesting. It seems to me that the strongest effect of Boris's paedo smear tactic is massively to increase the Trumpianisation of politics. Unless the Tory party reverse this quite quickly it could set in like in USA as a real thing close to the corridors of power.
At least at the moment the centre left's conduct is within the bounds of democratic decency. But the horror show prospect would be this: suppose the Labour party went back in to the hands of Burgon, Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and their acolyte mob and then it would be like to last GE only far worse - with no sane centrist on offer for a government.
I can't believe I am saying this but I am going to give Boris the benefit of the doubt re the Trumpianisation of politics on this one. I think he raised it to score a point in PMQs and it has now taken on a life of its own. Should he have spotted the hornets' nest he was about to open up? Don't know; hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Odd way of framing the question. Traditionally children aren't taught that the sole criterion for their behaviour should be how much trouble it may cause for them personally.
While I like the cut of Tugendhat's jib, with no ministerial experience is he a good candidate to go directly to PM? If the Tories were in opposition it would be a different matter - but Thatcher had been grooming Major via the Treasury, Foreign Secretary then CoE before he replaced her.
Only one of Blair's first cabinet had ever had ministerial experience. Although I wasn't a fan, it didn't seem to stop them appearing competent. Johnson had very negative previous experience in cabinet. That should have told people all they needed to know. Sadly they still promoted him.
Well they were out of power for almost two decades, it's hardly surprising none had experience in office.
Indeed but it negates the idea that as Tugendhat has no ministerial experience he won't make a good PM.
my experience with army hires was mixed at best
Not to say it wasn't but could you substitute "every hire I've ever made" for "army hires".
As the vast majority of hires were fresh graduates, no - they had demonstrated leadership skills where persuasion was critical and rank irrelevant. Some with army backgrounds flourished, others did less well - it was not a guarantee of effective leadership. The oddest was a submariner.
Did he sink without trace?
Carlotta gave him das Boot.
While I didn't he "moved along" and I'm happy to say enjoys a very successful career elsewhere.
He's so remainy he makes Lord Adonis look like Peter Bone. How is he a remotely viable option for tory leader?
Yes, that is so, Dura - regrettably so in my opinion.
It's easy to overlook how divided the Party is. It won't help to have an arch-remainer take over. It's not my Party of course but I would have thoght Sunak would be best in the circumstances if they are serious about rowing from where they are at present.
I'm not sure how "divided" the party is. What big policy divisions are there today that rivalled the European divisions and other divisions of the past?
Boris is a weird mix of he's got the right policies in general and has ran a good ship in general, but as I've said many times before he's committed akin to Gross Misconduct by breaking his own laws. That means he has to go. No ifs, no buts.
That doesn't mean the country needs a major change of direction. On the big issues: Europe, Covid, Vaccines, lifting lockdown the decisions have generally been correct. Levelling up is a good idea. The big exception to that is raising taxes, that is a horrendous mistake.
Arch-Remainers who haven't reconciled to the fact they lost the referendum may want to pretend there's major divisions, but I'm not sure there are really.
If it is not divided, why is there even talk of letters to Brady?
Because of people being upset with the PM, not because of policy divisions.
As I've said, I'm not divided on policy (except on tax) from the Prime Minister but I'd submit a letter myself* if I were an MP because lawmakers can't be lawbreakers.
If Sunak or Truss replaced Boris we can continue with a similar agenda, but minus the lawbreaking issue. This isn't the same as 2018/19 when the divisions were real because of a toxic divide over policy. Nobody today is advocating a policy of having illegal lockdown parties, we don't even have lockdown anymore!
* Of course always easier said by non-MPs than done by real MPs who may be worried about potential consequences to their career.
That's a heck of a lot of 'upset', Bartholemew.
So it should be. Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, its a basic point of principle.
Doesn't mean there's political divisions. In 2018/19 when Theresa May was drowning and a VONC happened people wanted a clear change of direction with regards to the backstop and Brexit.
Strip away the personalities and what major political divisions exist within the Tories today?
Brexit would be the main one. It remains a very long way from being 'done'. The others, such as taxation and the size of the State, are more familiar. You also have a Turf War which has its origins in the way in which the current Leader came to occupy his position. The combination explains why there is serious discussion about a VONC.
It is easy to see why the choice of Boris's replacement is a distinctly tricky.
While I like the cut of Tugendhat's jib, with no ministerial experience is he a good candidate to go directly to PM? If the Tories were in opposition it would be a different matter - but Thatcher had been grooming Major via the Treasury, Foreign Secretary then CoE before he replaced her.
Only one of Blair's first cabinet had ever had ministerial experience. Although I wasn't a fan, it didn't seem to stop them appearing competent. Johnson had very negative previous experience in cabinet. That should have told people all they needed to know. Sadly they still promoted him.
Well they were out of power for almost two decades, it's hardly surprising none had experience in office.
Indeed but it negates the idea that as Tugendhat has no ministerial experience he won't make a good PM.
As others have pointed out both Blair (3 years) and Cameron (4 1/2 years) had led the Opposition before becoming PM. While the Army teaches (some - my experience with army hires was mixed at best) leadership skills political leadership is a very different kettle of fish.
I have studied leadership for most of my career. Military leadership is outstanding experience for most settings *provided* the individual accepts that their approach needs to be amended for the circumstance and the individual is prepared to continuously learn. The latter point is one of the many many reasons why Johnson is a hopeless leader.
Victoria, Camperdown, Markhamites vs Tyronites, TA....
https://g.co/kgs/Kg5bu6 is a brilliant book just for it's discussion of management vs leadership.
Ideally, a Boris replacement needs to tick three boxes; 1. Enough top table experience to hit the ground running. 2. Distant enough from the current shambles to be have clean hands. 3. Sound enough on you-know-what to keep the party from collapsing.
And boxes 1 and 2 are pretty hard to tick simultaneously. Hunt does, but he probably fails on criterion 3.
The mistake the Tories are currently making is in thinking that BoZo ticks box 3
The coalition is collapsing whoever leads it
The other problem is thinking that no 3 means the same to the general public as it does to your average MP.
And it doesn't - your typical voter doesn't really care about the detail of B**xit, they just want the results of it (Levelling Up) improving their town.
The immediate question is whether it still matters to Tory MPs and members.
If everyone involved accepts that Brexit is "Done", then it's all water under the bridge. How much does anyone (in the Tory party) care about the NI protocol?
My random guess is that, above all, the people voting will want someone who can make them feel good about themselves. They will want someone willing to shout about how great Brexit is, who can make them proud. That's not going to be a select committee chair who has been carping from the sidelines. The most plausible candidate in this paradigm is Liz "Trade Deal" Truss, rather than Rishi "Jobs Tax" Sunak.
Decent, Ministerial and Cabinet experience, ex-Whip, understands Northern Ireland, competent, Northern constituency. Has been quick off the mark at distancing himself from the more repellent aspects of the current regime.
Would provide space for younger MPs to develop as likely not to be around for a long time. So may get support from those unwilling to vote for a young Pope.
Also not obviously insane.
Decent understands Northern Ireland competent not obviously insane
Not a set of qualities I'd associate with recent Tory leaders! You think the MPs and membership will change their recent voting habits?
(Johnson fails all, I think; May fails at least 'competent'; Cameron probably fails 'insane' for calling the Brexit ref; Howard, even though I'm not a fan, could be the last to arguably come close, although you can probably rule out almost anyone on 'understands Northern Ireland)
I know. That's why I have him as a dark horse. A very dark one. Still .... my reasons:-
- A lot of the existing Cabinet members are either tainted or have too many people who dislike them. - New MPs or those with no experience: too soon for them and won't want to vote for another like them because it ruins their chances for the future. - If a real change is wanted he could provide it - in terms of capability and quiet competence and helping to rebuild trust. - He could help steady the ship- which is what is needed - not just for the party but the country also. That gives the Tories a chance .
Anyway I'm probably wrong but there you go. Just an idea.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
The state of this
The fact that Owls and Jezziah are now PB Tories really tells you anything more you need to know about the far ‘left’.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Interesting. It seems to me that the strongest effect of Boris's paedo smear tactic is massively to increase the Trumpianisation of politics. Unless the Tory party reverse this quite quickly it could set in like in USA as a real thing close to the corridors of power.
At least at the moment the centre left's conduct is within the bounds of democratic decency. But the horror show prospect would be this: suppose the Labour party went back in to the hands of Burgon, Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and their acolyte mob and then it would be like to last GE only far worse - with no sane centrist on offer for a government.
I can't believe I am saying this but I am going to give Boris the benefit of the doubt re the Trumpianisation of politics on this one. I think he raised it to score a point in PMQs and it has now taken on a life of its own. Should he have spotted the hornets' nest he was about to open up? Don't know; hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The failure to apologise and put the record straight is the Trumpian bit. Interestingly the BBC are reporting Boris's paedo smear comments about Starmer without qualification as "false". (Eg R4 this morning.) The decision to do this must go up to the highest level. Normally if the BBC did this the noise from the centre right condemning the woke lefty BBC would be (usually rightly) deafening. I think the silence over this one is a bit deafening. The centre right/most Tory MPs/the right wing press know that Boris is currently an embarrassment to civil order.
For me the key paragraph of Mike's excellent thread is:
'I am still not convinced that Boris Johnson is going to be ousted by his parliamentary party – the body that has total power here because of its ability to no-confidence the PM. This would only happen if enough names go into Graham Brady to force a ballot AND for Johnson to lose that vote.'
I am far from convinced tory MPs have the gumption and courage to oust Johnson. Even if they do scrape across the 54 line, I'm not convinced Johnson would lose the vote. Which would make his position stronger.
We have two more years of this Donald Trump clown. And the country will spiral even further down the drain, along with Parliament, democracy and everything else that we once claimed represented British decency.
Yes - I agree. I don't see why it's taken as automatic that Boris Johnson would lose a VoNC. Even Theresa May won hers! IMO the markets are way way overestimating chances of Boris going... similar to what they did with Trump (he was 50/50 to complete his term for a lot of his early years).
Indeed.
The way the process works, 54 people trigger the ballot that immediately needs 185 suppporters.
They can’t let the trigger be pulled, until they know they have the 185 on side.
Even if 185 are onside there's a pressing problem that Johnson won't retire quietly out of the limelight (see Harry'n'Meg or Trump, D. for further info). His continued existence will be a nuisance for every future Tory leader until the Devil finally claims his own. Just voting him out isn't even the end of the beginning, as far as their problems go.
He's so remainy he makes Lord Adonis look like Peter Bone. How is he a remotely viable option for tory leader?
Yes, that is so, Dura - regrettably so in my opinion.
It's easy to overlook how divided the Party is. It won't help to have an arch-remainer take over. It's not my Party of course but I would have thoght Sunak would be best in the circumstances if they are serious about rowing from where they are at present.
I'm not sure how "divided" the party is. What big policy divisions are there today that rivalled the European divisions and other divisions of the past?
Boris is a weird mix of he's got the right policies in general and has ran a good ship in general, but as I've said many times before he's committed akin to Gross Misconduct by breaking his own laws. That means he has to go. No ifs, no buts.
That doesn't mean the country needs a major change of direction. On the big issues: Europe, Covid, Vaccines, lifting lockdown the decisions have generally been correct. Levelling up is a good idea. The big exception to that is raising taxes, that is a horrendous mistake.
Arch-Remainers who haven't reconciled to the fact they lost the referendum may want to pretend there's major divisions, but I'm not sure there are really.
If it is not divided, why is there even talk of letters to Brady?
Because of people being upset with the PM, not because of policy divisions.
As I've said, I'm not divided on policy (except on tax) from the Prime Minister but I'd submit a letter myself* if I were an MP because lawmakers can't be lawbreakers.
If Sunak or Truss replaced Boris we can continue with a similar agenda, but minus the lawbreaking issue. This isn't the same as 2018/19 when the divisions were real because of a toxic divide over policy. Nobody today is advocating a policy of having illegal lockdown parties, we don't even have lockdown anymore!
* Of course always easier said by non-MPs than done by real MPs who may be worried about potential consequences to their career.
That's a heck of a lot of 'upset', Bartholemew.
So it should be. Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, its a basic point of principle.
Doesn't mean there's political divisions. In 2018/19 when Theresa May was drowning and a VONC happened people wanted a clear change of direction with regards to the backstop and Brexit.
Strip away the personalities and what major political divisions exist within the Tories today?
Brexit would be the main one. It remains a very long way from being 'done'. The others, such as taxation and the size of the State, are more familiar. You also have a Turf War which has its origins in the way in which the current Leader came to occupy his position. The combination explains why there is serious discussion about a VONC.
It is easy to see why the choice of Boris's replacement is a distinctly tricky.
Leaving him in place is potentially even more tricky. The powers of a PM are considerable, and he will pick his opponents off one by one. Unless they are happy with the likelihood of remaking the Conservative party permanently in his image, then it's time to get rid. The 'we can rein him in' tendency, who seem to be quite a large slice of the party, are extremely foolish.
I was warming to Jessiah. A very interesting and relevant link to the Guardian and then he turns round and reveals himself to be someone you'd expect to find on the front row of a Trump rally. Maybe there's a moral there somewhere.....
Here's the link anyway. Just shows that you shouldn't leave things to people who don't understand what they're doing;
With the Chief Nursing Officer, Chief Midwifery Officer, Medical Directors and others, I have written to NHS colleagues about the professional responsibility to protect patients from COVID-19. This includes getting vaccinated, as the great majority have.
Wait till the person posting this figures out that Margaret Hodge was actually the councillor for the area and in charge of this and her response to the accusations.
I'm sure they will come out and condemn Hodge strongly and this wasn't a cheap attempt to smear Corbyn.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
It is shrewd and sound reasoning like that, Nick, that makes you such a formidable Diplomacy player.
The point we are missing is that Boris was being criticised at that point for *civil service* parties in no 10.
Starmer can’t use that line now without people saying “how come you aren’t responsible for your staff at CPS”.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
The state of this
The fact that Owls and Jezziah are now PB Tories really tells you anything more you need to know about the far ‘left’.
Politics is not a line, it’s a horseshoe. The far right and the far left have more in common with each other than they do with decent folk near the centre.
Both the Tories and Labour need a purge. Labour are well underway. The Tories haven’t even started.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Interesting. It seems to me that the strongest effect of Boris's paedo smear tactic is massively to increase the Trumpianisation of politics. Unless the Tory party reverse this quite quickly it could set in like in USA as a real thing close to the corridors of power.
At least at the moment the centre left's conduct is within the bounds of democratic decency. But the horror show prospect would be this: suppose the Labour party went back in to the hands of Burgon, Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and their acolyte mob and then it would be like to last GE only far worse - with no sane centrist on offer for a government.
I can't believe I am saying this but I am going to give Boris the benefit of the doubt re the Trumpianisation of politics on this one. I think he raised it to score a point in PMQs and it has now taken on a life of its own. Should he have spotted the hornets' nest he was about to open up? Don't know; hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The failure to apologise and put the record straight is the Trumpian bit. Interestingly the BBC are reporting Boris's paedo smear comments about Starmer without qualification as "false". (Eg R4 this morning.) The decision to do this must go up to the highest level. Normally if the BBC did this the noise from the centre right condemning the woke lefty BBC would be (usually rightly) deafening. I think the silence over this one is a bit deafening. The centre right/most Tory MPs/the right wing press know that Boris is currently an embarrassment to civil order.
Bear in mind the BBC are probably grateful no-one is asking them right now about their relationship with Savile.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
The state of this
The fact that Owls and Jezziah are now PB Tories really tells you anything more you need to know about the far ‘left’.
Politics is not a line, it’s a horseshoe. The far right and the far left have more in common with each other than they do with decent folk near the centre.
Both the Tories and Labour need a purge. Labour are well underway. The Tories haven’t even started.
PR. Let these people exist in their own fringe parties where the electorate can give them the support they deserve. The current system encourages entryism, which encourages bad behaviour from politicians like Corbyn and Boris. And the poor saps who are stuck voting for the party end up defending the indefensible.
And sometimes the indefensible takes over the party completely.
He's so remainy he makes Lord Adonis look like Peter Bone. How is he a remotely viable option for tory leader?
Yes, that is so, Dura - regrettably so in my opinion.
It's easy to overlook how divided the Party is. It won't help to have an arch-remainer take over. It's not my Party of course but I would have thoght Sunak would be best in the circumstances if they are serious about rowing from where they are at present.
I'm not sure how "divided" the party is. What big policy divisions are there today that rivalled the European divisions and other divisions of the past?
Boris is a weird mix of he's got the right policies in general and has ran a good ship in general, but as I've said many times before he's committed akin to Gross Misconduct by breaking his own laws. That means he has to go. No ifs, no buts.
That doesn't mean the country needs a major change of direction. On the big issues: Europe, Covid, Vaccines, lifting lockdown the decisions have generally been correct. Levelling up is a good idea. The big exception to that is raising taxes, that is a horrendous mistake.
Arch-Remainers who haven't reconciled to the fact they lost the referendum may want to pretend there's major divisions, but I'm not sure there are really.
If it is not divided, why is there even talk of letters to Brady?
Because of people being upset with the PM, not because of policy divisions.
As I've said, I'm not divided on policy (except on tax) from the Prime Minister but I'd submit a letter myself* if I were an MP because lawmakers can't be lawbreakers.
If Sunak or Truss replaced Boris we can continue with a similar agenda, but minus the lawbreaking issue. This isn't the same as 2018/19 when the divisions were real because of a toxic divide over policy. Nobody today is advocating a policy of having illegal lockdown parties, we don't even have lockdown anymore!
* Of course always easier said by non-MPs than done by real MPs who may be worried about potential consequences to their career.
That's a heck of a lot of 'upset', Bartholemew.
So it should be. Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers, its a basic point of principle.
Doesn't mean there's political divisions. In 2018/19 when Theresa May was drowning and a VONC happened people wanted a clear change of direction with regards to the backstop and Brexit.
Strip away the personalities and what major political divisions exist within the Tories today?
Not only the Tories, but there are few genuine divisions on the big calls between the parties. But those few are important.
On big ticket cost items there is broad agreement:
free education to 18, mostly in comps free NHS reasonable pension provision NATO, defence a safety net welfare system as much free trade as practicable but support for domestic agriculture.
Between them these objectives spend nearly all the money and the argument is on detail.
The problem areas: the Union of the UK social care what sort of Brexit for the next 50 years.
Which are either insoluble or else the differences are not especially between parties but between people.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
Here's what I don't understand. From the left's position it should be self-evident that a Labour government is better than a Conservative government. Even if you don't like the Labour leader or some of its perspectives aren't as clear as your own, it is *better* for the cause of the Labour movement and for Labour voters than any Conservative government.
Better to get 70% of what you want than 0%. And yet you and BJO and all the other true socialists choose the 0% option...
Boris's dead cat worked. Week two and even the nation's premier politics site is still talking about the smear rather than any other issue that might threaten Boris's hegemony.
It would appear to me that the most recent Prime Minister to have neither been LOTO or have previously held a Cabinet post was Henry Addington in 1801, having only previously been speaker. Before that point, you'd need to consult a history book on what was or wasn't a Cabinet role.
Boris's dead cat worked. Week two and even the nation's premier politics site is still talking about the smear rather than any other issue that might threaten Boris's hegemony.
You mean, we're still talking about one of the two instances where he's openly misled Parliament?
A long shot prediction, but it seems to me that if there is a new PM in the near future anyone in the current government is too tarred with the brush to be a credible candidate.
Sunak's choice was between Boris loyalism or resignation. The Savile remarks were the last chance to get out. He has chosen an uneasy path between the two.
The final two will be out of Hunt, Tugendhat and a couple of other non government figures. FWIW I think it will be close between Hunt and Tugendhat. Either would enable several million people (including me) to take the Tories seriously again, though I doubt if either could beat SKS+ the centre left alliance in the next GE.
The long shot nature of this prediction is that it requires an outbreak of sanity among a majority of the Tory MPs. Here's hoping.
I think you are right on any of the current Cabinet not having a chance.
The lack of a move by Sunak is not that big a surprise when you look at his work background - Goldmans and a hedge fund. Not the sort of people who do anything without rationalising things to the nth degree rather than go with their gut (Sunak wasn't that type of hedge fund guy). I think he has been looking at the polls and thinking "I'm not sure about this". He's probably hoping now he can stay until; BJ steps down and then launch his bid. The problem with that is that BJ bears grudges and will chop him off at the knees. By then, it is too late.
I think what the current Conservative MP reaction has also shown is that anyone from the Remainer, Home Counties Tory list of candidates is unlikely to have much of a chance. This was the moment for them to at least attempt a takeover by using BJ's sins to cast him out. They have failed.
Re betting, look for the ERG / Red Wall combo for the surprise candidate. I've mentioned this several times before before but I've put money on McVey at 100/1 (straight bet, no trading involved in case anyone asks). Sacked by Boris but Cabinet experience, would have support from both ERG and Red Wall divide, anti-lockdowner so no association there and has stood before (although badly). If you don't fancy that bet, look for someone who can combine the two factions together - it's a powerful combo in the election race.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Interesting. It seems to me that the strongest effect of Boris's paedo smear tactic is massively to increase the Trumpianisation of politics. Unless the Tory party reverse this quite quickly it could set in like in USA as a real thing close to the corridors of power.
At least at the moment the centre left's conduct is within the bounds of democratic decency. But the horror show prospect would be this: suppose the Labour party went back in to the hands of Burgon, Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and their acolyte mob and then it would be like to last GE only far worse - with no sane centrist on offer for a government.
I can't believe I am saying this but I am going to give Boris the benefit of the doubt re the Trumpianisation of politics on this one. I think he raised it to score a point in PMQs and it has now taken on a life of its own. Should he have spotted the hornets' nest he was about to open up? Don't know; hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The failure to apologise and put the record straight is the Trumpian bit. Interestingly the BBC are reporting Boris's paedo smear comments about Starmer without qualification as "false". (Eg R4 this morning.) The decision to do this must go up to the highest level. Normally if the BBC did this the noise from the centre right condemning the woke lefty BBC would be (usually rightly) deafening. I think the silence over this one is a bit deafening. The centre right/most Tory MPs/the right wing press know that Boris is currently an embarrassment to civil order.
Bear in mind the BBC are probably grateful no-one is asking them right now about their relationship with Savile.
Yes. I was listening to Colin Murray on 5L last night and was struck by his tone deaf approach. The BBC can’t just *forget* their role in the Savile saga. At least a *bit* of editorial humility was appropriate.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
The state of this
The fact that Owls and Jezziah are now PB Tories really tells you anything more you need to know about the far ‘left’.
I tells me as much about the far right. The home of the populist Johnson.. Owls and Jezz are fans.
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
The state of this
The fact that Owls and Jezziah are now PB Tories really tells you anything more you need to know about the far ‘left’.
In 2019 many on the labour right voted Tory and some former labour MPs encouraged people to do so.
A long shot prediction, but it seems to me that if there is a new PM in the near future anyone in the current government is too tarred with the brush to be a credible candidate.
Sunak's choice was between Boris loyalism or resignation. The Savile remarks were the last chance to get out. He has chosen an uneasy path between the two.
The final two will be out of Hunt, Tugendhat and a couple of other non government figures. FWIW I think it will be close between Hunt and Tugendhat. Either would enable several million people (including me) to take the Tories seriously again, though I doubt if either could beat SKS+ the centre left alliance in the next GE.
The long shot nature of this prediction is that it requires an outbreak of sanity among a majority of the Tory MPs. Here's hoping.
I think you are right on any of the current Cabinet not having a chance.
The lack of a move by Sunak is not that big a surprise when you look at his work background - Goldmans and a hedge fund. Not the sort of people who do anything without rationalising things to the nth degree rather than go with their gut (Sunak wasn't that type of hedge fund guy). I think he has been looking at the polls and thinking "I'm not sure about this". He's probably hoping now he can stay until; BJ steps down and then launch his bid. The problem with that is that BJ bears grudges and will chop him off at the knees. By then, it is too late.
I think what the current Conservative MP reaction has also shown is that anyone from the Remainer, Home Counties Tory list of candidates is unlikely to have much of a chance. This was the moment for them to at least attempt a takeover by using BJ's sins to cast him out. They have failed.
Re betting, look for the ERG / Red Wall combo for the surprise candidate. I've mentioned this several times before before but I've put money on McVey at 100/1 (straight bet, no trading involved in case anyone asks). Sacked by Boris but Cabinet experience, would have support from both ERG and Red Wall divide, anti-lockdowner so no association there and has stood before (although badly). If you don't fancy that bet, look for someone who can combine the two factions together - it's a powerful combo in the election race.
Tend to agree, someone like Mordaunt is probably a value bet and can see how she could reunite the Conservative party. Can't take McVey seriously though.
In some ways, that is even worse. Gove looks petrified. More to the point, the guy with the camera could easily have been someone with a knife and could clearly have got a pop in before the Police could do anything.
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament when it was presented last October, by any chance ?
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
Here's what I don't understand. From the left's position it should be self-evident that a Labour government is better than a Conservative government. Even if you don't like the Labour leader or some of its perspectives aren't as clear as your own, it is *better* for the cause of the Labour movement and for Labour voters than any Conservative government.
Better to get 70% of what you want than 0%. And yet you and BJO and all the other true socialists choose the 0% option...
Has it occurred to you that giving people some of 'what they want' makes them less likely to sign up to a programme to take everything?
Every advance made by Labour within the existing parameters makes the overthrow of the capitalist system that much more difficult to attain.
It's no coincidence, from that point of view, that the world's first Communist government succeeded Europe's most absolutist monarchy.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
Here's what I don't understand. From the left's position it should be self-evident that a Labour government is better than a Conservative government. Even if you don't like the Labour leader or some of its perspectives aren't as clear as your own, it is *better* for the cause of the Labour movement and for Labour voters than any Conservative government.
Better to get 70% of what you want than 0%. And yet you and BJO and all the other true socialists choose the 0% option...
Worse still is that it's not passive either which I'd be fine with. When Starmer looks like he's actually getting somewhere, Momentum et al have actively been trying to paint the LotO as someone just as bad as Johnson. Just one example is the beer in the Hartlepool campaign office "party" which was started by Momentum morons.
They're petrified of a Labour leader who isn't Corbyn, Pidcock, Burgon or McDonnell becoming PM, because it's the final proof that the public have utterly rejected their ideological purity.
Boris's dead cat worked. Week two and even the nation's premier politics site is still talking about the smear rather than any other issue that might threaten Boris's hegemony.
I don't think so. Just killing time till Partygate gets back into full swing. It's proved a useful means of keeping the Johnson the disreputable story tepid before bringing it back to the boil
Anyone heard from Olaf Scholz? He's the German Chancellor. Something interesting is going on. His SDP Party has strong links to Putin. Gerhard Schroeder - well enough said. However look at his coalition partners. The Greens and FDP are both much more hostile to Putin. Friedrich Merz the new CDU leader has taken a much less friendly approach to Russia so Scholz is left with probably no option but to take on the pro-Russian elements in his party or face the FDP and Greens siding with Merz. Germany has been treated as the weak link in Nato, forgetting that others like Italy are also quietly very reliant on Russian gas. It may be that the tide is turning though and that Putin himself might feel threatened that his influence on German politics is weakening.
Boris's dead cat worked. Week two and even the nation's premier politics site is still talking about the smear rather than any other issue that might threaten Boris's hegemony.
I don't think so. Just killing time till Partygate gets back into full swing. It's proved a useful means of keeping the Johnson the disreputable story tepid before bringing it back to the boil
When is the full report and closing of the police case expected?
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
I can't see how he can apologise now. To do so now would effectively be an admission that his words helped cause the disgraceful scenes yesterday by Corbyn the Elder and his unpleasant fellow nutjobs.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
I can't see how he can apologise now. To do so now would effectively be an admission that his words helped cause the disgraceful scenes yesterday by Corbyn the Elder and his unpleasant fellow nutjobs.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion serving Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
Corbyn Jr made Ms Abbott into his pillion companion?
Did Keir Starmer, Ed Davey, or any of the other party leaders draw attention to that particular conspiracy theory in parliament last October, by any chance ?
No but the Labour Party Deputy Leader did say this a couple of weeks before this happened:
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
That wasn't fomenting already existing online conspiracy thinking, though, as a new kind of Trumpian importation straight into our legislature ; just pointless abuse. And not only that, but she's apologised - has Johnson ?
The mercury is threatening to burst out the top of my whataboutometer this morning.
I'm just surprised that no psephologists have been lynched. Spelt almost the same as paedophile innit. Like that poor paediatrician who had a mob attack her house. Vide how Saville and Starmer must be the same cos they have a, e and initial capital S.
I can't see how he can apologise now. To do so now would effectively be an admission that his words helped cause the disgraceful scenes yesterday by Corbyn the Elder and his unpleasant fellow nutjobs.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion serving Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
Corbyn Jr made Ms Abbott into his pillion companion?
I can't see how he can apologise now. To do so now would effectively be an admission that his words helped cause the disgraceful scenes yesterday by Corbyn the Elder and his unpleasant fellow nutjobs.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion serving Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
Corbyn Jr made Ms Abbott into his pillion companion?
I can't see how he can apologise now. To do so now would effectively be an admission that his words helped cause the disgraceful scenes yesterday by Corbyn the Elder and his unpleasant fellow nutjobs.
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion serving Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
Corbyn Jr made Ms Abbott into his pillion companion?
A long shot prediction, but it seems to me that if there is a new PM in the near future anyone in the current government is too tarred with the brush to be a credible candidate.
Sunak's choice was between Boris loyalism or resignation. The Savile remarks were the last chance to get out. He has chosen an uneasy path between the two.
The final two will be out of Hunt, Tugendhat and a couple of other non government figures. FWIW I think it will be close between Hunt and Tugendhat. Either would enable several million people (including me) to take the Tories seriously again, though I doubt if either could beat SKS+ the centre left alliance in the next GE.
The long shot nature of this prediction is that it requires an outbreak of sanity among a majority of the Tory MPs. Here's hoping.
I think you are right on any of the current Cabinet not having a chance.
The lack of a move by Sunak is not that big a surprise when you look at his work background - Goldmans and a hedge fund. Not the sort of people who do anything without rationalising things to the nth degree rather than go with their gut (Sunak wasn't that type of hedge fund guy). I think he has been looking at the polls and thinking "I'm not sure about this". He's probably hoping now he can stay until; BJ steps down and then launch his bid. The problem with that is that BJ bears grudges and will chop him off at the knees. By then, it is too late.
I think what the current Conservative MP reaction has also shown is that anyone from the Remainer, Home Counties Tory list of candidates is unlikely to have much of a chance. This was the moment for them to at least attempt a takeover by using BJ's sins to cast him out. They have failed.
Re betting, look for the ERG / Red Wall combo for the surprise candidate. I've mentioned this several times before before but I've put money on McVey at 100/1 (straight bet, no trading involved in case anyone asks). Sacked by Boris but Cabinet experience, would have support from both ERG and Red Wall divide, anti-lockdowner so no association there and has stood before (although badly). If you don't fancy that bet, look for someone who can combine the two factions together - it's a powerful combo in the election race.
Tend to agree, someone like Mordaunt is probably a value bet and can see how she could reunite the Conservative party. Can't take McVey seriously though.
A lot of people couldn't take BJ seriously as well...but know what you mean. However, that's probably why she is 100/1.
Not sure re Mordaunt. Yes, on the pro-Brexit side but she is a southern MP with no clear roots in the North. She is a bit of a Brexiteer version of Liz Truss.
Only dipping in and out today, but was interested to read that both of the proper socialists on the forum are voting Tory.
Hadn't realised that a Conservative government was the path to True Socialism.
To be honest if there are just bad options I usually don't vote but Starmer is such a spectacularly bad option that I might have to vote Conservative.
Neither option is the path to 'True Socialism' but at this point as a left winger I would only go for Starmer if I was a full on accelerationist, which I've never fully bought into. I'm sure it has merits in some circumstances
Here's what I don't understand. From the left's position it should be self-evident that a Labour government is better than a Conservative government. Even if you don't like the Labour leader or some of its perspectives aren't as clear as your own, it is *better* for the cause of the Labour movement and for Labour voters than any Conservative government.
Better to get 70% of what you want than 0%. And yet you and BJO and all the other true socialists choose the 0% option...
I have never voted for Labour at a General Election, I've always voted for a Socialist candidate, or for the Greens, on the basis that if you don't vote for what you want you will certainly never get it (clearly I've voted for what I wanted and still didn't get it, but, well).
However, I'd still recognise a centrist Labour government as superior to a Tory government, even if it's just that a centrist Labour government makes things worse more slowly than a Tory government.
I guess some people will react strangely to the major disappointment that was the Corbyn period (2015-2019). I don't think the Labour centrists ever gave Corbyn a fair go, and I can understand people being bitter about that, but Corbyn did enough wrong on his own that it's hard not to blame him for his eventual failure. Blaming the Labour centrists alone is denial.
Tugendhat's great uncle Albert Tugendhat travelled from New York to London (edit - via Southampton!) on the Homeric in 1928 in first class with Senator Theodore Roosevelt and his family.
Comments
https://twitter.com/Kels__Tweets/status/1490827334324305922
Wild and wholly inaccurate claims of anti semitism are not uncommon here. Why should The Jezziah be pulled up for it when others happily get away with such shite?
It is easy to see why the choice of Boris's replacement is a distinctly tricky.
https://g.co/kgs/Kg5bu6 is a brilliant book just for it's discussion of management vs leadership.
If everyone involved accepts that Brexit is "Done", then it's all water under the bridge. How much does anyone (in the Tory party) care about the NI protocol?
My random guess is that, above all, the people voting will want someone who can make them feel good about themselves. They will want someone willing to shout about how great Brexit is, who can make them proud. That's not going to be a select committee chair who has been carping from the sidelines. The most plausible candidate in this paradigm is Liz "Trade Deal" Truss, rather than Rishi "Jobs Tax" Sunak.
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/08/31/corbyns-silence-over-child-abuse-in-islington-is-typical-of-how-he-picks-and-chooses-his-causes/
I feel sorry for decent Labour people that have to deal with that type of rubbish.
- A lot of the existing Cabinet members are either tainted or have too many people who dislike them.
- New MPs or those with no experience: too soon for them and won't want to vote for another like them because it ruins their chances for the future.
- If a real change is wanted he could provide it - in terms of capability and quiet competence and helping to rebuild trust.
- He could help steady the ship- which is what is needed - not just for the party but the country also. That gives the Tories a chance .
Anyway I'm probably wrong but there you go. Just an idea.
Can I advise you also delete it in your response to my response?
I have already done so in this, my response to your response to my response.
Bold experiment rewriting you in GPT 3, but work still needed.
It's really quite disturbing to see the rabbit hole Corbyn supporters are vanishing down. They're like the People's Front of Judaea on acid.
The powers of a PM are considerable, and he will pick his opponents off one by one. Unless they are happy with the likelihood of remaking the Conservative party permanently in his image, then it's time to get rid.
The 'we can rein him in' tendency, who seem to be quite a large slice of the party, are extremely foolish.
Both were decent organisations, led by honest, committed individuals.
Neither had a problem with antisemitism.
Here's the link anyway. Just shows that you shouldn't leave things to people who don't understand what they're doing;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/07/labour-drops-case-against-jewish-woman-for-alleged-antisemitism
https://twitter.com/CMO_England/status/1490975576676769794?s=20&t=bJ_OCrXts8_qH--ZWVYJ7g
I'm sure they will come out and condemn Hodge strongly and this wasn't a cheap attempt to smear Corbyn.
Starmer can’t use that line now without people saying “how come you aren’t responsible for your staff at CPS”.
Nasty and crude but effective politics.
Both the Tories and Labour need a purge. Labour are well underway. The Tories haven’t even started.
Message received.
Now fuck off.
On big ticket cost items there is broad agreement:
free education to 18, mostly in comps
free NHS
reasonable pension provision
NATO, defence
a safety net welfare system
as much free trade as practicable but
support for domestic agriculture.
Between them these objectives spend nearly all the money and the argument is on detail.
The problem areas:
the Union of the UK
social care
what sort of Brexit for the next 50 years.
Which are either insoluble or else the differences are not especially between parties but between people.
Better to get 70% of what you want than 0%. And yet you and BJO and all the other true socialists choose the 0% option...
The vast majority had senior Cabinet roles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_and_their_previous_offices
The lack of a move by Sunak is not that big a surprise when you look at his work background - Goldmans and a hedge fund. Not the sort of people who do anything without rationalising things to the nth degree rather than go with their gut (Sunak wasn't that type of hedge fund guy). I think he has been looking at the polls and thinking "I'm not sure about this". He's probably hoping now he can stay until; BJ steps down and then launch his bid. The problem with that is that BJ bears grudges and will chop him off at the knees. By then, it is too late.
I think what the current Conservative MP reaction has also shown is that anyone from the Remainer, Home Counties Tory list of candidates is unlikely to have much of a chance. This was the moment for them to at least attempt a takeover by using BJ's sins to cast him out. They have failed.
Re betting, look for the ERG / Red Wall combo for the surprise candidate. I've mentioned this several times before before but I've put money on McVey at 100/1 (straight bet, no trading involved in case anyone asks). Sacked by Boris but Cabinet experience, would have support from both ERG and Red Wall divide, anti-lockdowner so no association there and has stood before (although badly). If you don't fancy that bet, look for someone who can combine the two factions together - it's a powerful combo in the election race.
But no, he just went on the offensive.
https://twitter.com/urban_pictures/status/1450454322664427520
mouth-foaming-insanitycause in record time.Screw it. The Jezziah Award it is.
Every advance made by Labour within the existing parameters makes the overthrow of the capitalist system that much more difficult to attain.
It's no coincidence, from that point of view, that the world's first Communist government succeeded Europe's most absolutist monarchy.
They're petrified of a Labour leader who isn't Corbyn, Pidcock, Burgon or McDonnell becoming PM, because it's the final proof that the public have utterly rejected their ideological purity.
https://www.cityam.com/brexit-bus-uk-flight-compensation-delays-drop-220-25/
The answer is no, ofcourse, because Johnson is a new breed of figure in British politics.
“We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
Meanwhile I see that Corbyn jnr and his erstwhile pillion companion Ms Abbott - a serving Labour MP - are backing Putin in his aggression towards Ukraine.
What a revolting lot they are.
A definite Brexit benefit.
They want Iain Duncan Smith to be appointed to cabinet or someone frm anti-China movement as SpAd
Follows @MrHarryCole scoop on lobbying for tech firm
https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1491024364141428740
Current rules: 0h59 minutes late: no refund
New rules: 0h59 minutes late: no refund
Current rules: 1h59 minutes late: no refund
New rules: 1h59 minutes late: 25% refund
Current rules: 2h59 minutes late: no refund
New rules: 2h59 minutes late: 50% refund
Current rules: 3h00 minutes late: 100% refund
New rules: 3h00 minutes late: 100% refund
How is that not a win for the consumer?
Now that would be a bit of news.
Or have I misunderstood your comment?
Nothing for a less than 3 hour delay to
1 - 2 hour delay 25%
2 - 3 hour delay 50%
3 hour+ delay 100% refund
and the complaint seems to be that you will no longer be able to profit from a delayed flight, you just get your costs refunded.
and even funnier, the romantic East German trip:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3239322/Jeremy-Corbyn-Diane-Abbott-naked-romp-Cotswolds-field.html
Not sure re Mordaunt. Yes, on the pro-Brexit side but she is a southern MP with no clear roots in the North. She is a bit of a Brexiteer version of Liz Truss.
However, I'd still recognise a centrist Labour government as superior to a Tory government, even if it's just that a centrist Labour government makes things worse more slowly than a Tory government.
I guess some people will react strangely to the major disappointment that was the Corbyn period (2015-2019). I don't think the Labour centrists ever gave Corbyn a fair go, and I can understand people being bitter about that, but Corbyn did enough wrong on his own that it's hard not to blame him for his eventual failure. Blaming the Labour centrists alone is denial.