Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Will Donald Trump become President before 2024? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,032
edited February 2022 in General
Will Donald Trump become President before 2024? – politicalbetting.com

Apologies for inflicting GB News on you but I was intrigued by this interview with Dr Jan Halper-Hayes, overseas strategic adviser to Donald Trump, where she talked about the possibility of Trump being President before the 2024 election.

Read the full story here

«134567

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,995
    First like Nadal?
  • FFS Rafael.

    Please do this for science.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,995

    FFS Rafael.

    Please do this for science.

    Is Medvedev an anti vaxxer?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,571
    edited January 2022
    4th like L4%K

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,249

    FFS Rafael.

    Please do this for science.

    It is an incredible performance at his age to come back from 2 sets down.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Too late to be first. Bugger. 😭
  • tlg86 said:

    FFS Rafael.

    Please do this for science.

    Is Medvedev an anti vaxxer?
    More Nadal is pro vaccines.

    https://www.joe.co.uk/news/rafael-nadal-slams-novak-djokovic-for-refusing-to-vaccinate-ahead-of-australian-open-309832
  • Cyclefree said:

    Too late to be first. Bugger. 😭

    As a thread writer you can be first if you ask the powers that be.

    FYI - Apparently it is gauche to be first on your own threads.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,266
    Fans of tennis and cricket are probably feeling rather tired today.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Too late to be first. Bugger. 😭

    As a thread writer you can be first if you ask the powers that be.

    FYI - Apparently it is gauche to be first on your own threads.
    I am usually late for everything. But noted. More a techie question - as cannot actually post on a new thread until someone else has.
  • Yes Rafael.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,574
    21 Grand Slams to Nadal....

    Stunning match.
  • 21 Grand Slams to Nadal....

    Stunning match.

    I'm tired watching it, lord knows how the players feel.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,529
    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871
    edited January 2022
    TSE spot on here.

    Even if the GOP win a landslide in November's midterms and the House impeached Biden, no way will they have the 2/3 majority in the Senate needed to convict Biden (and a handful of non Trumpite GOP Senators like Romney would vote not guilty anyway).

    On a practical basis too even if the GOP do probably win the House back, how can Trump be Speaker and not manage votes and debates? He would effectively have to be in DC in Congress all the time, which would no doubt bore him rigid when he could be in Mar a Lago in sunny Florida by the beach
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,574
    Well done to the Aussie Govt. for their part in making this result possible.

    Heh!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,337
    "..if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker."

    I've no idea how many people are in the Secret Service, but I'd guess there would be quite a few to provide 24 hour security. Given the polling on the number of people who believe the QAnon rubbish, there's got to be a decent chance of there being some believers in the Secret Service.

    This is the challenge you face when such a large proportion of the country go completely off the deep end in terms of extremism. You're no longer defending against an external threat posed by individuals or small groups. The threat is potentially everywhere.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,997
    On topic, why should we be surprised. Trump has a recent history of trying to fix the result. And Johnson and Gove are trying to copy them by trying to fix the system here!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,491
    If Jan Halper- Hayes is promoting the idea, Team Trump must have been dabbling in such a plan.

    I hadn't even considered that as an option. I thought we were safe until January 2025.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,337
    On the 67 votes needed to convict in the Senate - is that two-thirds of the number of Senators elected, or two-thirds of the number who vote?

    Pretty sure there is some precedent in Elizabethan England, when it was said that some Lords were prevented from voting against one of the Religious Settlement Acts. I don't think that Trump is necessarily well enough organised to make it happen - otherwise he'd have managed to stop the counting in November 2020, and would still be President - but arresting a dozen or so Democratic Senators might be the way to get it done.

    The other thing about it is that, just as with the certification in January 2021, even if an Impeachment doesn't succeed in making Trump President, it achieves many other things. It forces Republican members of Congress to pick a side. It's a loyalty test, and another step to Trump maintaining his control of the Republicans. It disrupts the Democrats. And it pushes the boundary of what is seen to be acceptable so that greater liberties can be taken at a later date.
  • "..if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker."

    I've no idea how many people are in the Secret Service, but I'd guess there would be quite a few to provide 24 hour security. Given the polling on the number of people who believe the QAnon rubbish, there's got to be a decent chance of there being some believers in the Secret Service.

    This is the challenge you face when such a large proportion of the country go completely off the deep end in terms of extremism. You're no longer defending against an external threat posed by individuals or small groups. The threat is potentially everywhere.

    Except they really haven't gone off the deep end.

    If millions of heavily armed nutters really had gone off the deep end then there'd be terrorism attacks every week.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/27/no-america-is-not-on-the-cusp-of-a-civil-war
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,504
    A QTWTAIN
  • Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,019
    edited January 2022

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Was pleasantly surprised to see Mark Dolan of "Balls of Steel" fame!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,491
    HYUFD said:

    TSE spot on here.

    Even if the GOP win a landslide in November's midterms and the House impeached Biden, no way will they have the 2/3 majority in the Senate needed to convict Biden (and a handful of non Trumpite GOP Senators like Romney would vote not guilty anyway).

    On a practical basis too even if the GOP do probably win the House back, how can Trump be Speaker and not manage votes and debates? He would effectively have to be in DC in Congress all the time, which would no doubt bore him rigid when he could be in Mar a Lago in sunny Florida by the beach

    The source should concern you. She used to (at any rate) be very, very close to the Trump camp
  • If Jan Halper- Hayes is promoting the idea, Team Trump must have been dabbling in such a plan.

    I hadn't even considered that as an option. I thought we were safe until January 2025.

    Its not an option for the reasons explained.

    That they're babbling about such a thing shows their lack of knowledge about basic realities.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,995

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.
    Worse than the BBC, ITV and Sky for giving a platform to that consultant?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
  • Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.
    Examples?
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Too late to be first. Bugger. 😭

    As a thread writer you can be first if you ask the powers that be.

    FYI - Apparently it is gauche to be first on your own threads.
    I am usually late for everything. But noted. More a techie question - as cannot actually post on a new thread until someone else has.
    Might it depend on whether you come in from Vanilla or directly on pb?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,504
    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    All the opinion polling suggests that voters are furious with the prime minister and a substantial majority, which includes about half of those who voted Conservative in 2019, think he should be removed from office. What they are sick and tired of is him and being taken for fools by his apologists.
  • tlg86 said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.
    Worse than the BBC, ITV and Sky for giving a platform to that consultant?
    That was a one off. With GB News it is persistent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    People judged GB news before it had even aired, which at certains came across as quitre silly (as opposed to predicting how it would turn out, which may well have been accurate) but it seems to be loved by its opponents for hate quoting more than anything else, like how some Brexiters would spread links to the New European.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    edited January 2022

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Too late to be first. Bugger. 😭

    As a thread writer you can be first if you ask the powers that be.

    FYI - Apparently it is gauche to be first on your own threads.
    I am usually late for everything. But noted. More a techie question - as cannot actually post on a new thread until someone else has.
    Might it depend on whether you come in from Vanilla or directly on pb?
    Possibly. I tend to read on Vanilla. But I don't really care about the 1st issue. Just gently teasing @TSE.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.

    But there is a sane position which is anti-vax. Ie the more we vax the more we force the virus to evolve to evade immunity, creating evermore sinister variants

    I don’t agree with it, but I can see the logic

    Then there is the insane anti-vax stuff, Bill Gates and microchips and the rest, but that is different
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,910
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    SNP are going to get a bloody nose over GRA in Scotland unless the ystart backpeddling and drop the gender loonies who are running the show.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,249
    edited January 2022
    As someone who strongly supports the legalisation of drugs this is a really troubling story, apparently repeated in the US where cannabis has been legalised: https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/the-eye-has-been-taken-off-the-ball-with-cannabis-we-do-need-to-worry-about-young-people/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,504
    We should focus on persuading more small countries to take up cricket. Andorra, perhaps? Then we’d have more potential opponents playing down at our level.

    And we could all rejoice as our team chalks up victory after victory in the Andorra Test Series.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,995

    tlg86 said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.
    Worse than the BBC, ITV and Sky for giving a platform to that consultant?
    That was a one off. With GB News it is persistent.
    You obviously watch it more than me.

    Mind you, my mum is watching it now they’ve recruited Anne Diamond and Barrett Homes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,491

    If Jan Halper- Hayes is promoting the idea, Team Trump must have been dabbling in such a plan.

    I hadn't even considered that as an option. I thought we were safe until January 2025.

    Its not an option for the reasons explained.

    That they're babbling about such a thing shows their lack of knowledge about basic realities.
    If enough Dems can be prevented from voting it is quite plausible.

    Jan Halper-Hayes is nonetheless very Trumpian and close to Trump, so I don't imagine she dreamed it up herself.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,337
    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.

    But there is a sane position which is anti-vax. Ie the more we vax the more we force the virus to evolve to evade immunity, creating evermore sinister variants

    I don’t agree with it, but I can see the logic

    Then there is the insane anti-vax stuff, Bill Gates and microchips and the rest, but that is different
    Is there a single virus where mass vaccination has led to that outcome to the extent that the overall clinical outcomes were worse then they would have been without mass vaccination?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    edited January 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?

    Individual perception and feelings are not everything. Feelings do not override facts. Nor the need to comply with the law. An individual’s demands do not, of themselves, create a legally enforceable right.


    I think you are swimming agains the tide on that one. I've ceased being astonished to seeing responses that argue things should not be permitted because they think perception and feeling should override facts, that their demands should be enforcable.

    Usually goes something like this: 'I believe in freedom of expression...but X should not be allowed to say Y as it upsets Z'. Z is typically some group, presumed to have uniform opinion, of which the complainant often does not even belong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.

    But there is a sane position which is anti-vax. Ie the more we vax the more we force the virus to evolve to evade immunity, creating evermore sinister variants

    I don’t agree with it, but I can see the logic

    Then there is the insane anti-vax stuff, Bill Gates and microchips and the rest, but that is different
    Is there a single virus where mass vaccination has led to that outcome to the extent that the overall clinical outcomes were worse then they would have been without mass vaccination?
    No idea

    All I know is that I’ve seen apparently sane virologists and evolutionary biologists arguing this point: vaccines can be theoretically counter-productive
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    malcolmg said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    SNP are going to get a bloody nose over GRA in Scotland unless the ystart backpeddling and drop the gender loonies who are running the show.
    So how do you think they can / will be stopped?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.

    You tried. Fair play

    Believe it or not I AM interested in your garden!

    You said it was REALLY big. How big? And you say you could happily spend all day gardening. Why do you think that is? How does it affect you? Is there an endorphin high at the end, is it the pleasure of seeing flowers, or growing your own veg?

    Genuine questions. One day I will retire, at least a bit, and I wonder if I might like a garden….
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.

    But there is a sane position which is anti-vax. Ie the more we vax the more we force the virus to evolve to evade immunity, creating evermore sinister variants

    I don’t agree with it, but I can see the logic

    Then there is the insane anti-vax stuff, Bill Gates and microchips and the rest, but that is different
    Is there a single virus where mass vaccination has led to that outcome to the extent that the overall clinical outcomes were worse then they would have been without mass vaccination?
    No idea

    All I know is that I’ve seen apparently sane virologists and evolutionary biologists arguing this point: vaccines can be theoretically counter-productive
    Don't know about vaccination but it certainly applies to the over/mis use of anti-biotics.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    It is a channel that spreads antivax bollocks.

    But there is a sane position which is anti-vax. Ie the more we vax the more we force the virus to evolve to evade immunity, creating evermore sinister variants

    I don’t agree with it, but I can see the logic

    Then there is the insane anti-vax stuff, Bill Gates and microchips and the rest, but that is different
    Is there a single virus where mass vaccination has led to that outcome to the extent that the overall clinical outcomes were worse then they would have been without mass vaccination?
    No idea

    All I know is that I’ve seen apparently sane virologists and evolutionary biologists arguing this point: vaccines can be theoretically counter-productive
    Don't know about vaccination but it certainly applies to the over/mis use of anti-biotics.
    Astute point. Yes
  • Congrats to Rafa Nadal on winning his 21st Grand Slam title!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?

    Individual perception and feelings are not everything. Feelings do not override facts. Nor the need to comply with the law. An individual’s demands do not, of themselves, create a legally enforceable right.


    I think you are swimming agains the tide on that one. I've ceased being astonished to seeing responses that argue things should not be permitted because they think perception and feeling should override facts, that their demands should be enforcable.

    Usually goes something like this: 'I believe in freedom of expression...but X should not be allowed to say Y as it upsets Z'. Z is typically some group, presumed to have uniform opinion, of which the complainant often does not even belong.
    Given that both the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal have effectively ruled that feelings do not trump all other considerations, I don't think so.

    If anything, the views that you have accurately described, when challenged and tested against the law and others' rights, have been shown to be more of a paper tiger than often assumed. It is one reason why legal challenge - indeed challenge of all kinds - is needed. And it is one reason why I am very suspicious of any group which says "no debate". If you are so sure of your position why would you not want to debate and persuade?

    "No debate" comes across as the cry of a bully scared that they can't defend their position.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    IanB2 said:

    We should focus on persuading more small countries to take up cricket. Andorra, perhaps? Then we’d have more potential opponents playing down at our level.

    And we could all rejoice as our team chalks up victory after victory in the Andorra Test Series.

    Test Cricket is dying. We are crap at a form of cricket which is doomed (sadly, because it is the peak form of the sport)

    Here in Sri Lanka English cricket is much admired, they talk excitedly of England coming to play at Galle, because we have great teams when it comes to the shorter formats
  • If Jan Halper- Hayes is promoting the idea, Team Trump must have been dabbling in such a plan.

    I hadn't even considered that as an option. I thought we were safe until January 2025.

    Its not an option for the reasons explained.

    That they're babbling about such a thing shows their lack of knowledge about basic realities.
    If enough Dems can be prevented from voting it is quite plausible.

    Jan Halper-Hayes is nonetheless very Trumpian and close to Trump, so I don't imagine she dreamed it up herself.
    We start with one mad assumption of Trump becoming Speaker.

    Followed by another mad assumption about impeachment.

    Then we add another mad assumption about stopping Dem Senators from voting.

    If Trump (and the GOP generally) really was this all powerful (and competent) then he wouldn't have lost the 2020 election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    GB News is becoming our version of Fox news. Hence it removed Andrew Neil and replaced him with Farage and has some telegenic presenters like Tom Harwood and Nana Akua.

    It knows its target market, Leavers, anti lockdown voters, some anti vaxxers, small government types, conservatives and is sticking to it. It may not be everyone's cup of tea but left liberals and Remainers already have C4 news as you say and the Guardian etc. Indeed already GB news gets more weekly viewers than Sky news on some estimates
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?

    Individual perception and feelings are not everything. Feelings do not override facts. Nor the need to comply with the law. An individual’s demands do not, of themselves, create a legally enforceable right.


    I think you are swimming agains the tide on that one. I've ceased being astonished to seeing responses that argue things should not be permitted because they think perception and feeling should override facts, that their demands should be enforcable.

    Usually goes something like this: 'I believe in freedom of expression...but X should not be allowed to say Y as it upsets Z'. Z is typically some group, presumed to have uniform opinion, of which the complainant often does not even belong.
    Given that both the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal have effectively ruled that feelings do not trump all other considerations, I don't think so.

    If anything, the views that you have accurately described, when challenged and tested against the law and others' rights, have been shown to be more of a paper tiger than often assumed. It is one reason why legal challenge - indeed challenge of all kinds - is needed. And it is one reason why I am very suspicious of any group which says "no debate". If you are so sure of your position why would you not want to debate and persuade?

    "No debate" comes across as the cry of a bully scared that they can't defend their position.
    On Twitter I’ve seen the flakier of the Wokerati actually use the term “fact-shaming” of their opponents. Ie if you have facts that prove me “wrong”, you are evil and using these facts to bully me, so these facts should not be mentioned, it is unfair

    I am not joking. I wish I was
  • Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    I thought your entire persona and all your posts are generated using GTP4?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    On the 67 votes needed to convict in the Senate - is that two-thirds of the number of Senators elected, or two-thirds of the number who vote?

    Pretty sure there is some precedent in Elizabethan England, when it was said that some Lords were prevented from voting against one of the Religious Settlement Acts. I don't think that Trump is necessarily well enough organised to make it happen - otherwise he'd have managed to stop the counting in November 2020, and would still be President - but arresting a dozen or so Democratic Senators might be the way to get it done.

    The other thing about it is that, just as with the certification in January 2021, even if an Impeachment doesn't succeed in making Trump President, it achieves many other things. It forces Republican members of Congress to pick a side. It's a loyalty test, and another step to Trump maintaining his control of the Republicans. It disrupts the Democrats. And it pushes the boundary of what is seen to be acceptable so that greater liberties can be taken at a later date.

    It’s two-thirds of those present, so any senator present but but not voting one way or the other would effectively be a vote to
    acquit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    edited January 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?

    Individual perception and feelings are not everything. Feelings do not override facts. Nor the need to comply with the law. An individual’s demands do not, of themselves, create a legally enforceable right.


    I think you are swimming agains the tide on that one. I've ceased being astonished to seeing responses that argue things should not be permitted because they think perception and feeling should override facts, that their demands should be enforcable.

    Usually goes something like this: 'I believe in freedom of expression...but X should not be allowed to say Y as it upsets Z'. Z is typically some group, presumed to have uniform opinion, of which the complainant often does not even belong.
    Given that both the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal have effectively ruled that feelings do not trump all other considerations, I don't think so.

    If anything, the views that you have accurately described, when challenged and tested against the law and others' rights, have been shown to be more of a paper tiger than often assumed. It is one reason why legal challenge - indeed challenge of all kinds - is needed. And it is one reason why I am very suspicious of any group which says "no debate". If you are so sure of your position why would you not want to debate and persuade?

    "No debate" comes across as the cry of a bully scared that they can't defend their position.
    I hope you are right, but I think even paper tigers can roam and do a lot of damage before they are stopped. When there is pushback the ridiculousness can cause an unravelling fast, but the will to pushback is, I think, a minority. It won't always get to the senior courts, and people push these things hard until prevented.

    On a similar issue see the reaction, or lack thereof, to very basis issues raised from things the Henriques report into Midland, which you are no doubt much more familar with than I. Even when explained to people involved they don't see any issues.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Farooq said:

    However given the violence we saw the GOP is prepared to engage in for a Presidency they lost if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker.

    The Pandora's box of political violence, once opened, unleashes the possibility of violence engulfing the people who opened that box. It wouldn't be altogether surprising if Trump got up to his old tricks and found that other people, keener on preserving the republic than he is, followed suit but with a more specific and targeted approach.

    Your regular reminder that the overwhelming majority of political violence in the US over the last few years has been perpetrated by groupings who tend to vote for the Democrats.

    And also that hardly anyone - on any side - has actually been directly killed as a result of the violence, and even fewer of those deaths were in any way deliberate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    We should focus on persuading more small countries to take up cricket. Andorra, perhaps? Then we’d have more potential opponents playing down at our level.

    And we could all rejoice as our team chalks up victory after victory in the Andorra Test Series.

    Test Cricket is dying. We are crap at a form of cricket which is doomed (sadly, because it is the peak form of the sport)

    Here in Sri Lanka English cricket is much admired, they talk excitedly of England coming to play at Galle, because we have great teams when it comes to the shorter formats
    In the spirit of Test Cricket it is a slow death, and I'd be happy to settle for a draw.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,200
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?

    Individual perception and feelings are not everything. Feelings do not override facts. Nor the need to comply with the law. An individual’s demands do not, of themselves, create a legally enforceable right.


    I think you are swimming agains the tide on that one. I've ceased being astonished to seeing responses that argue things should not be permitted because they think perception and feeling should override facts, that their demands should be enforcable.

    Usually goes something like this: 'I believe in freedom of expression...but X should not be allowed to say Y as it upsets Z'. Z is typically some group, presumed to have uniform opinion, of which the complainant often does not even belong.
    Given that both the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal have effectively ruled that feelings do not trump all other considerations, I don't think so.

    If anything, the views that you have accurately described, when challenged and tested against the law and others' rights, have been shown to be more of a paper tiger than often assumed. It is one reason why legal challenge - indeed challenge of all kinds - is needed. And it is one reason why I am very suspicious of any group which says "no debate". If you are so sure of your position why would you not want to debate and persuade?

    "No debate" comes across as the cry of a bully scared that they can't defend their position.
    On Twitter I’ve seen the flakier of the Wokerati actually use the term “fact-shaming” of their opponents. Ie if you have facts that prove me “wrong”, you are evil and using these facts to bully me, so these facts should not be mentioned, it is unfair

    I am not joking. I wish I was
    Once the gates have been blown open, anything is possible.

    Edit - welcome to the reality of a post-liberal society. Emotion over reason.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    GB News is becoming our version of Fox news. Hence it removed Andrew Neil and replaced him with Farage and has some telegenic presenters like Tom Harwood.

    It knows its target market, Leavers, anti lockdown voters, some anti vaxxers, small government types, conservatives and is sticking to it. It may not be everyone's cup of tea but left liberals and Remainers already have C4 news as you say and the Guardian etc. Indeed already GB news gets more weekly viewers than Sky news on some estimates
    There was a Guardian interview with Adam Boulton recently (or maybe the Times, can’t remember) when he said Sky News is probably doomed. It costs too much, it has no future, not enough viewers

    He’s right (not least because Sky News has got Woke recently which reduces its appeal, when the BBC pump out the same shit but with more money and certainly more prestige)

    There will surely be 3 news services in the UK - at most - in the future. One left, the BBC in the middle, one right

    This will be good for the BBC and might help preserve it for the future. It will have to carefully carve a middle role, but it can do that if it gets in a few more right wingers to balance the inevitable liberal left Londoners
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    HYUFD said:

    TSE spot on here.

    Even if the GOP win a landslide in November's midterms and the House impeached Biden, no way will they have the 2/3 majority in the Senate needed to convict Biden (and a handful of non Trumpite GOP Senators like Romney would vote not guilty anyway).

    On a practical basis too even if the GOP do probably win the House back, how can Trump be Speaker and not manage votes and debates? He would effectively have to be in DC in Congress all the time, which would no doubt bore him rigid when he could be in Mar a Lago in sunny Florida by the beach

    There is a Speaker pro tem of the House that acts like the British Deputy Speakers, i.e. only presides if the Speaker is unavailable. So Trump could just hand over the boring bits to them.

    But I agree that making Trump Speaker seems an unfeasible long-shot.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,993
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.

    You tried. Fair play

    Believe it or not I AM interested in your garden!

    You said it was REALLY big. How big? And you say you could happily spend all day gardening. Why do you think that is? How does it affect you? Is there an endorphin high at the end, is it the pleasure of seeing flowers, or growing your own veg?

    Genuine questions. One day I will retire, at least a bit, and I wonder if I might like a garden….
    I often spend all day gardening in the summer. The number of jobs is never-ending. I complete a few, look around, then see a few more that need doing.

    There is utility to be gained - the satisfaction of a day's toil, calories burned and skin a little more tanned - but mostly it's a consequence of my work-ethic, which is relentless (and which I saw in my grandmother). I view it as a curse rather than something to be commended for.
  • OT I do hope Harriet Robson is safe and being looked after. All the reports are about the Instagram posts she put up earlier, and since deleted; nothing about her speaking to the police or anyone else.
  • Seems farfetched.

    Trump would have to run for congress for a starter and I suspect McCarthy is not going to willingly step aside,
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.

    You tried. Fair play

    Believe it or not I AM interested in your garden!

    You said it was REALLY big. How big? And you say you could happily spend all day gardening. Why do you think that is? How does it affect you? Is there an endorphin high at the end, is it the pleasure of seeing flowers, or growing your own veg?

    Genuine questions. One day I will retire, at least a bit, and I wonder if I might like a garden….
    I often spend all day gardening in the summer. The number of jobs is never-ending. I complete a few, look around, then see a few more that need doing.

    There is utility to be gained - the satisfaction of a day's toil, calories burned and skin a little more tanned - but most of it is a consequence of my work-ethic, which is relentless (and which I saw in my grandmother). I view it as a curse rather than something to be commended for.
    There is a fine passage in an Ian McEwan novel where he describes his protagonist watching very very old people sort-of gardening. His hero thinks “when I was younger I would not have understood this, as I get older I do, even tho these people are so old they surely won’t see another spring and the results of this gardening, certainly not years of the garden improving”


    So from what you are saying you don’t really enjoy it that much, and you’d rather you didn’t have the work ethic that drives you to do it?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,413
    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    However given the violence we saw the GOP is prepared to engage in for a Presidency they lost if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker.

    The Pandora's box of political violence, once opened, unleashes the possibility of violence engulfing the people who opened that box. It wouldn't be altogether surprising if Trump got up to his old tricks and found that other people, keener on preserving the republic than he is, followed suit but with a more specific and targeted approach.

    Your regular reminder that the overwhelming majority of political violence in the US over the last few years has been perpetrated by groupings who tend to vote for the Democrats.

    And also that hardly anyone - on any side - has actually been directly killed as a result of the violence, and even fewer of those deaths were in any way deliberate.
    Cites, please.
    A quick look suggests that very much the opposite is true.
    For example:
    https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,738
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?

    Individual perception and feelings are not everything. Feelings do not override facts. Nor the need to comply with the law. An individual’s demands do not, of themselves, create a legally enforceable right.


    I think you are swimming agains the tide on that one. I've ceased being astonished to seeing responses that argue things should not be permitted because they think perception and feeling should override facts, that their demands should be enforcable.

    Usually goes something like this: 'I believe in freedom of expression...but X should not be allowed to say Y as it upsets Z'. Z is typically some group, presumed to have uniform opinion, of which the complainant often does not even belong.
    Given that both the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal have effectively ruled that feelings do not trump all other considerations, I don't think so.

    If anything, the views that you have accurately described, when challenged and tested against the law and others' rights, have been shown to be more of a paper tiger than often assumed. It is one reason why legal challenge - indeed challenge of all kinds - is needed. And it is one reason why I am very suspicious of any group which says "no debate". If you are so sure of your position why would you not want to debate and persuade?

    "No debate" comes across as the cry of a bully scared that they can't defend their position.
    On Twitter I’ve seen the flakier of the Wokerati actually use the term “fact-shaming” of their opponents. Ie if you have facts that prove me “wrong”, you are evil and using these facts to bully me, so these facts should not be mentioned, it is unfair

    I am not joking. I wish I was
    There was an excellent example of that in the article about Hong Kong immigrants to the UK being so happy and successful. Leftists apparently think it's wrong to highlight this, because it shows up the failures of other immigrant groups and means it's much tougher to blame racism for their woes.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,995

    OT I do hope Harriet Robson is safe and being looked after. All the reports are about the Instagram posts she put up earlier, and since deleted; nothing about her speaking to the police or anyone else.

    Mail say the police have seen her. Given the high profile nature of the case, she should be fine.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Jesus Wept, I see @TSE has gone all hyperbole again on Trump. Next up, why Trump is worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined, as well probably being Damien from The Omen.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,993
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.

    You tried. Fair play

    Believe it or not I AM interested in your garden!

    You said it was REALLY big. How big? And you say you could happily spend all day gardening. Why do you think that is? How does it affect you? Is there an endorphin high at the end, is it the pleasure of seeing flowers, or growing your own veg?

    Genuine questions. One day I will retire, at least a bit, and I wonder if I might like a garden….
    I often spend all day gardening in the summer. The number of jobs is never-ending. I complete a few, look around, then see a few more that need doing.

    There is utility to be gained - the satisfaction of a day's toil, calories burned and skin a little more tanned - but most of it is a consequence of my work-ethic, which is relentless (and which I saw in my grandmother). I view it as a curse rather than something to be commended for.
    There is a fine passage in an Ian McEwan novel where he describes his protagonist watching very very old people sort-of gardening. His hero thinks “when I was younger I would not have understood this, as I get older I do, even tho these people are so old they surely won’t see another spring and the results of this gardening, certainly not years of the garden improving”


    So from what you are saying you don’t really enjoy it that much, and you’d rather you didn’t have the work ethic that drives you to do it?
    I enjoy the product of it. And I very much enjoy being outdoors in the sunshine. I can't imagine not have a garden. And not just a garden - not having a large garden. Essential to me.

    But I see people just doing nothing and seemingly quite happy doing nothing. I don't know what it's like to have nothing to do. My grandmother did nothing but work - by which I mean jobs in the house and the garden. She never sat and enjoyed the garden (which Monty Don frequently urges his viewers to do). I really should try to be more lazy.

    Edit: I should add that I love plants, and nature more generally. If I was lucky enough to be in Sri Lanka now I'd be snorkelling, out looking for whales or walking through the rain-forests inland photographing stuff.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Nigelb said:

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    However given the violence we saw the GOP is prepared to engage in for a Presidency they lost if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker.

    The Pandora's box of political violence, once opened, unleashes the possibility of violence engulfing the people who opened that box. It wouldn't be altogether surprising if Trump got up to his old tricks and found that other people, keener on preserving the republic than he is, followed suit but with a more specific and targeted approach.

    Your regular reminder that the overwhelming majority of political violence in the US over the last few years has been perpetrated by groupings who tend to vote for the Democrats.

    And also that hardly anyone - on any side - has actually been directly killed as a result of the violence, and even fewer of those deaths were in any way deliberate.
    Cites, please.
    A quick look suggests that very much the opposite is true.
    For example:
    https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
    Funny, for some reason, that site doesn’t define the shooting of Republican Congressman Steve Scalise in 2017 by a Sanders supporter in its list of left-wing terrorism. One wonders what else they managed to leave out:

    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    An excellent article by the always excellent Glenn Greenwald on the Joe Rogan row (it also answers a poster’s question on here as to why Rogan invited on Alex Jones):

    https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-pressure-campaign-on-spotify
  • CookieCookie Posts: 12,892
  • TresTres Posts: 2,623
    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    However given the violence we saw the GOP is prepared to engage in for a Presidency they lost if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker.

    The Pandora's box of political violence, once opened, unleashes the possibility of violence engulfing the people who opened that box. It wouldn't be altogether surprising if Trump got up to his old tricks and found that other people, keener on preserving the republic than he is, followed suit but with a more specific and targeted approach.

    Your regular reminder that the overwhelming majority of political violence in the US over the last few years has been perpetrated by groupings who tend to vote for the Democrats.

    And also that hardly anyone - on any side - has actually been directly killed as a result of the violence, and even fewer of those deaths were in any way deliberate.
    "hardly anyone has been directly killed' - your regular reminder that there are dimwits on this site who are only too eager to forgive Trump anything.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Tres said:

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    However given the violence we saw the GOP is prepared to engage in for a Presidency they lost if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker.

    The Pandora's box of political violence, once opened, unleashes the possibility of violence engulfing the people who opened that box. It wouldn't be altogether surprising if Trump got up to his old tricks and found that other people, keener on preserving the republic than he is, followed suit but with a more specific and targeted approach.

    Your regular reminder that the overwhelming majority of political violence in the US over the last few years has been perpetrated by groupings who tend to vote for the Democrats.

    And also that hardly anyone - on any side - has actually been directly killed as a result of the violence, and even fewer of those deaths were in any way deliberate.
    "hardly anyone has been directly killed' - your regular reminder that there are dimwits on this site who are only too eager to forgive Trump anything.
    And dimwits who are equally too eager to defend the Democrats and the left whatever actions they take.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?

    Individual perception and feelings are not everything. Feelings do not override facts. Nor the need to comply with the law. An individual’s demands do not, of themselves, create a legally enforceable right.


    I think you are swimming agains the tide on that one. I've ceased being astonished to seeing responses that argue things should not be permitted because they think perception and feeling should override facts, that their demands should be enforcable.

    Usually goes something like this: 'I believe in freedom of expression...but X should not be allowed to say Y as it upsets Z'. Z is typically some group, presumed to have uniform opinion, of which the complainant often does not even belong.
    Given that both the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal have effectively ruled that feelings do not trump all other considerations, I don't think so.

    If anything, the views that you have accurately described, when challenged and tested against the law and others' rights, have been shown to be more of a paper tiger than often assumed. It is one reason why legal challenge - indeed challenge of all kinds - is needed. And it is one reason why I am very suspicious of any group which says "no debate". If you are so sure of your position why would you not want to debate and persuade?

    "No debate" comes across as the cry of a bully scared that they can't defend their position.
    People who are confident of their position rarely indulge in vituperation doxing or trying to get people fired. Meanwhile….

    Kent Police, Parliamentary Security team and the Speaker's Office have been helpful but it is the Labour Party that have offered me no support at all since I unexpectedly became an MP 5 years ago. I am today considering my future in the Party very carefully...

    https://twitter.com/rosieduffield1/status/1487777220135464960?s=21
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    Duffield on resignation watch...

    Rosie Duffield MP
    @RosieDuffield1
    Kent Police, Parliamentary Security team and the Speaker's Office have been helpful but it is the Labour Party that have offered me no support at all since I unexpectedly became an MP 5 years ago. I am today considering my future in the Party very carefully...

    https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1487777220135464960
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Seems farfetched.

    Trump would have to run for congress for a starter and I suspect McCarthy is not going to willingly step aside,

    It’s a nuts theory. Trump isn’t going to run for Congress, why the Hell would be? It would massively dilutive to what he is doing at the moment and go against all his instincts.

    I’ve changed my mind about the next article about Trump. It’s going to be “Why Trump is trying to persuade Putin to invade the Ukraine to boost his chances in 2024”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    edited January 2022

    Duffield on resignation watch...

    Rosie Duffield MP
    @RosieDuffield1
    Kent Police, Parliamentary Security team and the Speaker's Office have been helpful but it is the Labour Party that have offered me no support at all since I unexpectedly became an MP 5 years ago. I am today considering my future in the Party very carefully...

    https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1487777220135464960

    Don't most people who quit a party just do it, not drop hints about it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    Yeh, gads...

    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    5m
    Just read [Sunak-Johnson NI tax article] again, and it doesn’t say *when* we must go ahead with the tax rise, but still awkward to get out of

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1487806607161544706
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,413
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    However given the violence we saw the GOP is prepared to engage in for a Presidency they lost if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker.

    The Pandora's box of political violence, once opened, unleashes the possibility of violence engulfing the people who opened that box. It wouldn't be altogether surprising if Trump got up to his old tricks and found that other people, keener on preserving the republic than he is, followed suit but with a more specific and targeted approach.

    Your regular reminder that the overwhelming majority of political violence in the US over the last few years has been perpetrated by groupings who tend to vote for the Democrats.

    And also that hardly anyone - on any side - has actually been directly killed as a result of the violence, and even fewer of those deaths were in any way deliberate.
    Cites, please.
    A quick look suggests that very much the opposite is true.
    For example:
    https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
    Funny, for some reason, that site doesn’t define the shooting of Republican Congressman Steve Scalise in 2017 by a Sanders supporter in its list of left-wing terrorism. One wonders what else they managed to leave out:

    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

    As I said, a quick look.
    Please provide alternative analyses, as opposed to anecdata.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    MrEd said:

    Seems farfetched.

    Trump would have to run for congress for a starter and I suspect McCarthy is not going to willingly step aside,

    It’s a nuts theory. Trump isn’t going to run for Congress, why the Hell would be? It would massively dilutive to what he is doing at the moment and go against all his instincts.

    I’ve changed my mind about the next article about Trump. It’s going to be “Why Trump is trying to persuade Putin to invade the Ukraine to boost his chances in 2024”
    That actually sounds more likely.
  • MrEd said:

    Seems farfetched.

    Trump would have to run for congress for a starter and I suspect McCarthy is not going to willingly step aside,

    It’s a nuts theory. Trump isn’t going to run for Congress, why the Hell would be? It would massively dilutive to what he is doing at the moment and go against all his instincts.

    I’ve changed my mind about the next article about Trump. It’s going to be “Why Trump is trying to persuade Putin to invade the Ukraine to boost his chances in 2024”
    Um, as @tse points out in the header, Trump doesn't have to run for Congress: Congress can elect anyone as Speaker.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.

    You tried. Fair play

    Believe it or not I AM interested in your garden!

    You said it was REALLY big. How big? And you say you could happily spend all day gardening. Why do you think that is? How does it affect you? Is there an endorphin high at the end, is it the pleasure of seeing flowers, or growing your own veg?

    Genuine questions. One day I will retire, at least a bit, and I wonder if I might like a garden….
    OK - here goes. In a curious way gardening chose me. Oh I wanted a nice garden for the children.

    But what I eventually realised was that I was drawn to it because it helped soothe & calm me whenever I was troubled or worried. It rooted me in a way. And then it made me feel good. It answered various needs in me I was only dimly aware I had.

    How? It is sensuous - you use your eyes, you have to take the time to really observe & see & when you do you see such beauty & often in unexpected combinations: rain on a spider's web, bees burrowing into allium flowers, the light shining through canna leaves. My mind is a very visual one. I think in pictures. I try to paint pictures with words. I cannot draw. But gardening gives me the ability to create something beautiful & visual.

    Then there is scent. A garden without scent is absurd.

    Sound - water obviously but the sound of grasses moving in wind. In the Lakes we are on a hill. It can be very windy so I'm experimenting with grasses for just that reason.

    Taste - an obvious one this. But I eat lemons, figs, apples, pears & blackberries I have grown myself. The sense of achievement is superb.

    Touch - overlooked but real. The feel of different sorts of leaves or petals or running your fingers through lavender etc. Or having your hands in earth. Honestly it is lovely.

    Yes - gardening is sensuous. And creative.

    Plus the physical exercise & being outside in all weathers. It is tiring but so fulfilling & yes gives me a high. The sense of stretching my body, of being tired & dirty is good - together with a sense of achievement - of being able to look & say "I've done that".

    It's unexpected. Whatever you plan it will never quite work out as you wanted. That is part of the joy. You have a partner - Mother Nature - who will do her own thing.

    It is quiet. It puts my mind into a sort of suspended animation where whatever I'm thinking about goes into the back - like someone stuffing clothes into a cupboard without bothering to hang them up. But somehow when I switch my mind back on, it is all a bit clearer & more ordered than before.

    The Lakes garden is big - about 1/3 of an acre I think. On a hill. On limestone. Windy. But very sunny with fabulous views & a mile from the sea. Front garden - largely done. Back garden: needs sorting. Then some additional land next to it which is a huge mess. Just wild. I am just beginning to think about this.

    I need to draw it out on paper, work out what I want to do, how it relates to the house, the views of it & from it etc. I would like to have a formal French-style potager with veg, a greenhouse, a garden building to sit in with my books, maybe a hot tub & an area of large sweeping planted curvaceous beds. It needs mystery too.

    So that's why I can spend all day. I am not a tidy lawn & small border sort of a girl.

    Here are my roses from a few years back in London to give you an idea of the sensuous aspect.





  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.

    You tried. Fair play

    Believe it or not I AM interested in your garden!

    You said it was REALLY big. How big? And you say you could happily spend all day gardening. Why do you think that is? How does it affect you? Is there an endorphin high at the end, is it the pleasure of seeing flowers, or growing your own veg?

    Genuine questions. One day I will retire, at least a bit, and I wonder if I might like a garden….
    I often spend all day gardening in the summer. The number of jobs is never-ending. I complete a few, look around, then see a few more that need doing.

    There is utility to be gained - the satisfaction of a day's toil, calories burned and skin a little more tanned - but most of it is a consequence of my work-ethic, which is relentless (and which I saw in my grandmother). I view it as a curse rather than something to be commended for.
    There is a fine passage in an Ian McEwan novel where he describes his protagonist watching very very old people sort-of gardening. His hero thinks “when I was younger I would not have understood this, as I get older I do, even tho these people are so old they surely won’t see another spring and the results of this gardening, certainly not years of the garden improving”


    So from what you are saying you don’t really enjoy it that much, and you’d rather you didn’t have the work ethic that drives you to do it?
    I enjoy the product of it. And I very much enjoy being outdoors in the sunshine. I can't imagine not have a garden. And not just a garden - not having a large garden. Essential to me.

    But I see people just doing nothing and seemingly quite happy doing nothing. I don't know what it's like to have nothing to do. My grandmother did nothing but work - by which I mean jobs in the house and the garden. She never sat and enjoyed the garden (which Monty Don frequently urges his viewers to do). I really should try to be more lazy.

    Edit: I should add that I love plants, and nature more generally. If I was lucky enough to be in Sri Lanka now I'd be snorkelling, out looking for whales or walking through the rain-forests inland photographing stuff.
    Interesting! That all makes sense

    I do feel a bit guilty that I’m not making more of Sri Lanka, But the fact is I justified the trip by saying “I will work” - and I am, and the work is good, and I will return home tanned and fit and tranquil and with a lot of stuff DONE

    But within 2 hours of me there are famous national parks with LEOPARDS and all that. Hmmmm!!!
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    Jesus Wept, I see @TSE has gone all hyperbole again on Trump. Next up, why Trump is worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined, as well probably being Damien from The Omen.

    You have an odd relationship with Trump. On the one hand you claim to condemn him for the January insurrection, but you get awfully upset when others condemn him.
    Not really. What I get upset about is this constant portrayal of what is happening in the US as a fight of good versus evil. It’s bad for the US and it’s bad for the world.
  • Nigelb said:

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    However given the violence we saw the GOP is prepared to engage in for a Presidency they lost if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker.

    The Pandora's box of political violence, once opened, unleashes the possibility of violence engulfing the people who opened that box. It wouldn't be altogether surprising if Trump got up to his old tricks and found that other people, keener on preserving the republic than he is, followed suit but with a more specific and targeted approach.

    Your regular reminder that the overwhelming majority of political violence in the US over the last few years has been perpetrated by groupings who tend to vote for the Democrats.

    And also that hardly anyone - on any side - has actually been directly killed as a result of the violence, and even fewer of those deaths were in any way deliberate.
    Cites, please.
    A quick look suggests that very much the opposite is true.
    For example:
    https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
    Yet despite this toxic stew of anger and threats, actual terrorism — politically motivated violence against noncombatants that seeks a broad psychological effect — was low in 2021. Data from the New America Foundation reveal there were zero — yes, zero — successful far-right, left-wing or Islamist militant mass terrorist attacks in the United States so far this year.

    https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2021-saw-plenty-of-violence-but-no-mass-terrorist-attacks-in-the-u-s/
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Nigelb said:

    Endillion said:

    Farooq said:

    However given the violence we saw the GOP is prepared to engage in for a Presidency they lost if I was the Secret Service detailing President Biden and Vice President Harris I would become very worried the moment Trump became Speaker.

    The Pandora's box of political violence, once opened, unleashes the possibility of violence engulfing the people who opened that box. It wouldn't be altogether surprising if Trump got up to his old tricks and found that other people, keener on preserving the republic than he is, followed suit but with a more specific and targeted approach.

    Your regular reminder that the overwhelming majority of political violence in the US over the last few years has been perpetrated by groupings who tend to vote for the Democrats.

    And also that hardly anyone - on any side - has actually been directly killed as a result of the violence, and even fewer of those deaths were in any way deliberate.
    Cites, please.
    A quick look suggests that very much the opposite is true.
    For example:
    https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
    I can't imagine you'll get a citation in either direction that isn't affected by bias. Note that I said political violence, not terrorism, in case the distinction matters - possibly the former relates more to home affairs, the latter to foreign. Also "the last few years" - that article was published June 2020, so isn't even directly relevant.

    Anyway, a quick scan down the below list was inconclusive:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States#2020–2022

    But, that list groups large numbers of related incidents under single headers. The George Floyd protests are listed as having caused $1-2bn of insured property damage in total, whereas the equivalent figure for 6 January was $30m. There are - as far as I can tell - no other incidents listed which can easily be classified as "right wing".
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,504

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.

    You tried. Fair play

    Believe it or not I AM interested in your garden!

    You said it was REALLY big. How big? And you say you could happily spend all day gardening. Why do you think that is? How does it affect you? Is there an endorphin high at the end, is it the pleasure of seeing flowers, or growing your own veg?

    Genuine questions. One day I will retire, at least a bit, and I wonder if I might like a garden….
    I often spend all day gardening in the summer. The number of jobs is never-ending. I complete a few, look around, then see a few more that need doing.

    There is utility to be gained - the satisfaction of a day's toil, calories burned and skin a little more tanned - but most of it is a consequence of my work-ethic, which is relentless (and which I saw in my grandmother). I view it as a curse rather than something to be commended for.
    There is a fine passage in an Ian McEwan novel where he describes his protagonist watching very very old people sort-of gardening. His hero thinks “when I was younger I would not have understood this, as I get older I do, even tho these people are so old they surely won’t see another spring and the results of this gardening, certainly not years of the garden improving”


    So from what you are saying you don’t really enjoy it that much, and you’d rather you didn’t have the work ethic that drives you to do it?
    I just helped my mum weed and generally tidy up her front garden this morning. Given that there hasn't been a "Redbridge in Bloom" compy since 2019, she is reigning champion (and has won several times before) :)
    Don’t I know it.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,623
    Just the unsuccessful one on 6th January 2021 then.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    Anyway, if you want something different to talk about we could talk about women, Article 10 of the ECHR and what, if any, the police's role in this should be. It touches on Scotland, Wales, the police, law and Europe - as well as, of course, women. So pretty much a full bingo card.

    And it gives me a chance to post this - https://medium.com/@cyclefree2/perception-and-reality-7cbe78a2b679.

    So what's not to love?
    Does it involve aliens, GPT4 and arguments about the best Goan fish curry recipes? I/f not, sorry. Not interested
    No. Of course not. Such dreary geeky topics. I don't even know what the second one means.

    Maybe someone else will bite.

    Or I could do some work. Next door's cat is staring at me evilly. He/she is probably an alien, maybe even a GPT4 alien who likes fish.

    There - that'll have to do.

    You tried. Fair play

    Believe it or not I AM interested in your garden!

    You said it was REALLY big. How big? And you say you could happily spend all day gardening. Why do you think that is? How does it affect you? Is there an endorphin high at the end, is it the pleasure of seeing flowers, or growing your own veg?

    Genuine questions. One day I will retire, at least a bit, and I wonder if I might like a garden….
    OK - here goes. In a curious way gardening chose me. Oh I wanted a nice garden for the children.

    But what I eventually realised was that I was drawn to it because it helped soothe & calm me whenever I was troubled or worried. It rooted me in a way. And then it made me feel good. It answered various needs in me I was only dimly aware I had.

    How? It is sensuous - you use your eyes, you have to take the time to really observe & see & when you do you see such beauty & often in unexpected combinations: rain on a spider's web, bees burrowing into allium flowers, the light shining through canna leaves. My mind is a very visual one. I think in pictures. I try to paint pictures with words. I cannot draw. But gardening gives me the ability to create something beautiful & visual.

    Then there is scent. A garden without scent is absurd.

    Sound - water obviously but the sound of grasses moving in wind. In the Lakes we are on a hill. It can be very windy so I'm experimenting with grasses for just that reason.

    Taste - an obvious one this. But I eat lemons, figs, apples, pears & blackberries I have grown myself. The sense of achievement is superb.

    Touch - overlooked but real. The feel of different sorts of leaves or petals or running your fingers through lavender etc. Or having your hands in earth. Honestly it is lovely.

    Yes - gardening is sensuous. And creative.

    Plus the physical exercise & being outside in all weathers. It is tiring but so fulfilling & yes gives me a high. The sense of stretching my body, of being tired & dirty is good - together with a sense of achievement - of being able to look & say "I've done that".

    It's unexpected. Whatever you plan it will never quite work out as you wanted. That is part of the joy. You have a partner - Mother Nature - who will do her own thing.

    It is quiet. It puts my mind into a sort of suspended animation where whatever I'm thinking about goes into the back - like someone stuffing clothes into a cupboard without bothering to hang them up. But somehow when I switch my mind back on, it is all a bit clearer & more ordered than before.

    The Lakes garden is big - about 1/3 of an acre I think. On a hill. On limestone. Windy. But very sunny with fabulous views & a mile from the sea. Front garden - largely done. Back garden: needs sorting. Then some additional land next to it which is a huge mess. Just wild. I am just beginning to think about this.

    I need to draw it out on paper, work out what I want to do, how it relates to the house, the views of it & from it etc. I would like to have a formal French-style potager with veg, a greenhouse, a garden building to sit in with my books, maybe a hot tub & an area of large sweeping planted curvaceous beds. It needs mystery too.

    So that's why I can spend all day. I am not a tidy lawn & small border sort of a girl.

    Here are my roses from a few years back in London to give you an idea of the sensuous aspect.





    Eloquent as ever and also pretty persuasive. And enlightening. Much to think about. Thankyou

    Maybe I should get a garden. I can see the enormous pleasure of growing your own fruit and veg and I totally get the reward of proper physical work - it is good for you, AND you earn your appetite

    I have just one more question. You’ve spoken of your Neapolitan background. Don’t you miss the Campanian sun? Are you totally adjusted to British weather?

    When I think about the next Act in my life I do yearn for real warmth and sun. Mediterranean, but tempered. Maybe Portugal. Or go the whole hog and go tropical, like Sri Lanka. The sweet soft evenings are so seductive….
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    Blackpool focus group for Times Radio this afternoon. And it's very good for Johnson.

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1487768986863480834
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    MrEd said:

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    Jesus Wept, I see @TSE has gone all hyperbole again on Trump. Next up, why Trump is worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined, as well probably being Damien from The Omen.

    You have an odd relationship with Trump. On the one hand you claim to condemn him for the January insurrection, but you get awfully upset when others condemn him.
    Not really. What I get upset about is this constant portrayal of what is happening in the US as a fight of good versus evil. It’s bad for the US and it’s bad for the world.

    Yes, it’s total bollocks. There is true evil on both sides, and also righteous naivety. And hatred between

    It is a toxic mix and those who predict civil war are not entirely fantasists
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited January 2022
    DavidL said:

    As someone who strongly supports the legalisation of drugs this is a really troubling story, apparently repeated in the US where cannabis has been legalised: https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/the-eye-has-been-taken-off-the-ball-with-cannabis-we-do-need-to-worry-about-young-people/

    Yes. Semi-legalisation is a disaster. The worst of all worlds.

    Prompted by the discussion on podcasts yesterday, I rediscovered econtalk- there’s a great episode on the drug situation in the US/Mexico.

    I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m pretty sure the solution is a coherent, dedicated policy, at either end of the war on drugs vs full legalisation spectrum.

    Drugs are a catastrophe for the individual, families and our society. My view has seriously hardened in recent years.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,200
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure why you need to apologise for GB News. Some of their presenters are a bit irritating but I don't get the hate.

    Quite.

    I’ve also seen it linked to, by not-the-usual suspects. GBNews seems to be making an impact, after a terrible start

    Good luck to them. The more independent voices the better. C4 News has been pumping out leftwing nonsense for decades
    GB News is becoming our version of Fox news. Hence it removed Andrew Neil and replaced him with Farage and has some telegenic presenters like Tom Harwood and Nana Akua.

    It knows its target market, Leavers, anti lockdown voters, some anti vaxxers, small government types, conservatives and is sticking to it. It may not be everyone's cup of tea but left liberals and Remainers already have C4 news as you say and the Guardian etc. Indeed already GB news gets more weekly viewers than Sky news on some estimates
    I don't watch TV but I have no problem at all with GB News and wish them well. Over the past 5 or so years, much mainstream news has become indistinguishable with ideology and propoganda. The left should not have a monopoly over this. GB News is not even right wing anyway, in terms of British public opinion I would say it is actually pretty centrist. It is the mainstream media who are way to the left of public opinion.

    It is sad that Andrew Neill's original idea didn't work the way he hoped it would. However, GB News need to be commercially successful and the idea of creating a more objective and neutral BBC was never going to fly, in this respect.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,845
    Good afternoon all. Anecdotes from my shopping trip to Leeds...

    The city was reasonably busy, but not crowded.

    Mask wearing was very sparse on the train.

    Mask wearing around 50% in John Lewis.

    Of the 4 or 5 things I was aiming to buy, I managed to come home with one. Next stop Amazon!

    I did get to experience some interaction with real people, so that was good.

    However, the highlight of the trip came when walking home from the station. A pair of goosanders doing their thing in the canal.

    Also, I've walked six and a half miles so far today, so that might help me burn off the slice of Black Forest Gateau I had with my coffee.
This discussion has been closed.