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Latest next Tory leader betting on the Smarkets exchange – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Seems Johnson doubling down on the line that he thought he was attending a work event.

    So obviously a lie that it is insulting.

    I guess only war with Russia can save him now.

    “Let’s Bomb Russia!”
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=F-g1exgkHsU

  • EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Good
    That is a big development. Moving quite quickly now.
    And of course she will already have interviewed Martin Reynolds so can compare statements
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Following Richard Nabavi's lead, I backed Raab on Betfair £45 at average odd of 28.5 but I've just cashed out. -£3.64. Too many uncertainties for my liking.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Her terms of reference say

    The team will have access to all relevant records, and be able to speak to members
    of staff.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039751/Terms_of_Reference_-_Cabinet_Secretary_Investigations_-_December_2021.docx.pdf

    That may not mandate her to look at emails and Whatsapps but it gives her power to, and she'd have to be pretty thick not to exercise it
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Bit more on this - group of about 20 of the 2019 intake have met a few times to talk about the overall situation, including, it's said how to defend PM if opposition parties force a vote of no confidence in the Commons

    Two of their number suggest there may be a flurry of them submitting letters to Graham Brady tomorrow afternoon - that could rapidly change the situation for No 10 - however, it could also, easily melt away

    The possible threat certainly ups the ante for PMQs tomorrow - a poor performance could convince more of them to act

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1483493359532584963

    This is getting like bloody lockdowns....we all know what has to happen, we all know it is going to happen...but all this delay and dithering and can kicking hoping something turns up, just makes it worse.
    Yeah, does he not realise some of us have bets to collect on? Selfish thoughtlessness, as per.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Her terms of reference say

    The team will have access to all relevant records, and be able to speak to members
    of staff.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039751/Terms_of_Reference_-_Cabinet_Secretary_Investigations_-_December_2021.docx.pdf

    That may not mandate her to look at emails and Whatsapps but it gives her power to, and she'd have to be pretty thick not to exercise it
    It'll be just another Graywash!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    Bit more on this - group of about 20 of the 2019 intake have met a few times to talk about the overall situation, including, it's said how to defend PM if opposition parties force a vote of no confidence in the Commons

    Two of their number suggest there may be a flurry of them submitting letters to Graham Brady tomorrow afternoon - that could rapidly change the situation for No 10 - however, it could also, easily melt away

    The possible threat certainly ups the ante for PMQs tomorrow - a poor performance could convince more of them to act

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1483493359532584963

    This is getting like bloody lockdowns....we all know what has to happen, we all know it is going to happen...but all this delay and dithering and can kicking hoping something turns up, just makes it worse.
    Remember this is Boris we are talking about.

    And Boris will only make a decision when there is only 1 choice left on the table and even then he will wait until the last possible second before choosing it in the hope that a better option may appear from nowhere.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,880

    Ruth Begby of Sky News is an interesting assassin, given her recent history

    As I pointed out earlier, she had to grovel publicly and got a substantial suspension from her job. Compare and contrast. Quite apart from the point that she is a journalist not a lawmaker.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Omnium said:

    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Oh to be a fly on the wall (or nowadays, a Zoom hacker) at that one!
    If I had any dealings with Cummings, I would record every word. For one thing, he's a lying, untrustworthy POS. For another, he'd be bound to be recording the conversation as well... ;)
    Do you remember the Plebgate comedy? The senior police representatives came out of a meeting and straight up lied about what had been said. Then Andrew Mitchell played the recording. Then plod claimed that recording conversations was unfair.....
    Front and centre now as to what when in or out of Downing St.

    A suitcase of liquids? Unchecked?
    I've just been sent a copy of CCTV from No.10 security

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCkagYixpuc
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    MISTY said:

    Applicant said:

    MISTY said:

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him

    Isn't this how our democracy is supposed to work?

    If it hasn't worked that way in recent times, its partly Labour's fault.

    It was Labour, not the Tory backbenchers, who gave Johnson more unchecked power than any PM, well, since Churchill, and they got zero representation in return. Its no wonder Johnson and his coterie felt invincible.

    Steve Baker has often voiced his frustration that attempts to corral the leadership of the party and provide opposition have gone nowhere because Labour simply weren't interested.

    Steve Baker needs to jump off a cliff. The media have made him an embarassment to himself.
  • Ruth Begby of Sky News is an interesting assassin, given her recent history

    She's even on Countdown this week, no less.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,880

    Bit more on this - group of about 20 of the 2019 intake have met a few times to talk about the overall situation, including, it's said how to defend PM if opposition parties force a vote of no confidence in the Commons

    Two of their number suggest there may be a flurry of them submitting letters to Graham Brady tomorrow afternoon - that could rapidly change the situation for No 10 - however, it could also, easily melt away

    The possible threat certainly ups the ante for PMQs tomorrow - a poor performance could convince more of them to act

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1483493359532584963

    This is getting like bloody lockdowns....we all know what has to happen, we all know it is going to happen...but all this delay and dithering and can kicking hoping something turns up, just makes it worse.
    What else did you expect?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    FPT

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    BBC

    EU fears it is closer to war than ever since the break-up of ex Yugoslavia

    This is becoming very serious and real

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1483168325538570248?t=BfsDeErSEdxW-p6Z5Y7fWg&s=19

    How does the EU go to war in the Ukraine without Germany, exactly? Are they going to rely on the French?
    That's not what the article says. The EU says Europe is closer to war, etc.

    Nobody is going to war in Ukraine except Russia. Even the normally demented tory couch commandos on here don't want British forces involved.
    And yet a small contingent of UK troops are there. Is this wise?
    If anything, letting Russia regain Ukraine by force with no consequence seems to me to be repeating the mistakes of the past…

    “If we let them have this they’ll give up with any further demands”. Yeah, right
    Spot on. If I were the UKPM, and Ukraine asked for help, I'd give it. Troops, equipment, bombs, planes. Anything. We need to contain Putin's aggression.
    The UK has had C-17s shuttling back and forth between Kiev with anti-tank weapons since yesterday.
    I just hope they're paying for them.
  • Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Speak for England Layla!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Ruth Begby of Sky News is an interesting assassin, given her recent history

    She's even on Countdown this week, no less.
    She may have fallen foul of the regs but she admitted it and was suspended. She never made the rules.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Billy Bunter at it again on Skynews.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    edited January 2022
    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    Why is that weird? The Tories have no principles, we’re just interested in power. :smiley:
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    Why is that weird? The Tories have no principles, we’re just interested in power. :smiley:
    You said it
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited January 2022

    Ruth Begby of Sky News is an interesting assassin, given her recent history

    She without sin, let her cast the first stone....

    So far Boris Johnson has fired up the JCB to dig his political grave, and those who don't want to spend 5 years waiting in Opposition are getting ready to push him in.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Bit more on this - group of about 20 of the 2019 intake have met a few times to talk about the overall situation, including, it's said how to defend PM if opposition parties force a vote of no confidence in the Commons

    Two of their number suggest there may be a flurry of them submitting letters to Graham Brady tomorrow afternoon - that could rapidly change the situation for No 10 - however, it could also, easily melt away

    The possible threat certainly ups the ante for PMQs tomorrow - a poor performance could convince more of them to act

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1483493359532584963

    Yawn.

    They need to put up or shut up.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    There is a significant difference between those Tories who walked away when he was elected and those who just wiggled their bottoms and waved their waved their tom toms. I think the difference was pretty easy to spot
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,513
    So after the Novak send home from the tennis, where does it leave anti vaxxers in sport? Is it fair to stop world number 1 whose is unvaxxed from playing, but world 113 or so can still take part in the tournament?

    For example numerous numbers of England Rugby squad unvaxxed, should they be there?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    I'm starting to get concerned that when Johnson falls we will end up somehow with Cummings back in the new PM's operation.

    Let us not forget his batshit crazy interview a few months ago when he basically seemed to be saying he, as a genius, should run the country and not elected politicians.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    stjohn said:

    Following Richard Nabavi's lead, I backed Raab on Betfair £45 at average odd of 28.5 but I've just cashed out. -£3.64. Too many uncertainties for my liking.

    He's in profit now so maybe you should have waited? I don't have a large enough bet on to care.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
    The Corbyn comparison is interesting - will there be a similar mass disavowal of Johnson when he is gone? Will he find himself outside the Conservative party within a year, and his supporters be gradually shuffled out of positions of power? It's hard to tell whether he has changed the party for good.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
  • Polruan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
    The Corbyn comparison is interesting - will there be a similar mass disavowal of Johnson when he is gone? Will he find himself outside the Conservative party within a year, and his supporters be gradually shuffled out of positions of power? It's hard to tell whether he has changed the party for good.
    I expect he will leave the HOC very quickly
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    So after the Novak send home from the tennis, where does it leave anti vaxxers in sport? Is it fair to stop world number 1 whose is unvaxxed from playing, but world 113 or so can still take part in the tournament?

    For example numerous numbers of England Rugby squad unvaxxed, should they be there?

    I think they'd struggle to make it through the qualifying tournament tbh.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    stjohn said:

    Following Richard Nabavi's lead, I backed Raab on Betfair £45 at average odd of 28.5 but I've just cashed out. -£3.64. Too many uncertainties for my liking.

    I've kept a small bet on next PM, just as insurance.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    edited January 2022

    FPT

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    BBC

    EU fears it is closer to war than ever since the break-up of ex Yugoslavia

    This is becoming very serious and real

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1483168325538570248?t=BfsDeErSEdxW-p6Z5Y7fWg&s=19

    How does the EU go to war in the Ukraine without Germany, exactly? Are they going to rely on the French?
    That's not what the article says. The EU says Europe is closer to war, etc.

    Nobody is going to war in Ukraine except Russia. Even the normally demented tory couch commandos on here don't want British forces involved.
    And yet a small contingent of UK troops are there. Is this wise?
    If anything, letting Russia regain Ukraine by force with no consequence seems to me to be repeating the mistakes of the past…

    “If we let them have this they’ll give up with any further demands”. Yeah, right
    Spot on. If I were the UKPM, and Ukraine asked for help, I'd give it. Troops, equipment, bombs, planes. Anything. We need to contain Putin's aggression.
    The UK has had C-17s shuttling back and forth between Kiev with anti-tank weapons since yesterday.
    I just hope they're paying for them.
    The projectile-anti-squid-tank-apparatus is the finest in the world. Twelve men, a week, and it's ready to shoot entirely ineffectively at any tank within 100 paces. So fearsome in fact that the first offence use is generally regarded as knocking on the tanks door and asking if they'd like to surrender.

    The brave Generals of our armed services (nameless as well as nearly countless) have lunched night and day to deliver this. Only a few billion over budget, and we only have two rather than the 450 that had been envisaged.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Please tell me that is a joke?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    eek said:

    Chris said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
    Well @Cyclefree was more she isn't qualified to do the job but David Allen Green over the weekend also pointed out that her remit may not be enough to allow her to reach a conclusion because who wishes to criticise a boss who may remain in place
    Sue Gray is famous for not liking things written down, or released to the public. She hates FOI requests. She hates email.

    I'm not sure she is the ideal person to run this inquiry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    edited January 2022
    Polruan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
    The Corbyn comparison is interesting - will there be a similar mass disavowal of Johnson when he is gone? Will he find himself outside the Conservative party within a year, and his supporters be gradually shuffled out of positions of power? It's hard to tell whether he has changed the party for good.
    Even Starmer was in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for goodness sake, as was Rayner, Ashworth etc.

    McConnell, Abbott etc still Labour MPs.

    Corbyn may have gone but his supporters have hardly been all expelled from Labour
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Polruan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
    The Corbyn comparison is interesting - will there be a similar mass disavowal of Johnson when he is gone? Will he find himself outside the Conservative party within a year, and his supporters be gradually shuffled out of positions of power? It's hard to tell whether he has changed the party for good.
    I expect he will leave the HOC very quickly
    Maybe if there's a big enough money-making opportunity, but there's nothing that compares to the World King gig. I think he will believe he did nothing wrong and that he has a shot at a comeback - all in the Churchill playbook, after all.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    Any evidence to back that up?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,880
    Roger said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    There is a significant difference between those Tories who walked away when he was elected and those who just wiggled their bottoms and waved their waved their tom toms. I think the difference was pretty easy to spot
    Are you sure it was their tom toms?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited January 2022
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
    Well, if you want to be pedantic, the season of Christmas lasts from December 25th to January 6th. Also, the abbreviation "Xmas" (with the "X" representing the chi-rho logogram for Christ) dates back to at least the mid-18th century. Would you pronounce the abbreviation "King's X" as written or as "King's Cross"?
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    Any evidence to back that up?
    No evidence, but petulance yes
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    So after the Novak send home from the tennis, where does it leave anti vaxxers in sport? Is it fair to stop world number 1 whose is unvaxxed from playing, but world 113 or so can still take part in the tournament?

    For example numerous numbers of England Rugby squad unvaxxed, should they be there?

    The issue with Novax wasn't the fact he hadn't been vaccinated, it was the fact the documentation he used to get himself into Australia without being vaccinated was a pile of lies.
  • Email from Birmingham Northfield MP (a 2019er) @GarySambrook89 to a constituent about the PM. Says he “would expect anyone who is found to have broken the law to seriously consider their position in the Government and that includes the Prime Minister.”



    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1483490904010895361
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Please tell me that is a joke?
    That's not Boris's flat, for the 55th time. That is Lulu Lytle's own flat.

    https://youtu.be/gtW6fgrUIMI
  • Another email to a constituent, this time from @kevinhollinrake. Says “There is a requirement within the [ministerial code] that any significant breach would necessitate the rendering of a resignation, and this of course applies to the Prime Minister.”



    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1483497509704065026
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Am I the only one who thinks today’s covid numbers are a bit shit? I’d normally not be worried but we are at a critical stage whereby we need to see the back of Plan B.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    Omnium said:

    FPT

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    BBC

    EU fears it is closer to war than ever since the break-up of ex Yugoslavia

    This is becoming very serious and real

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1483168325538570248?t=BfsDeErSEdxW-p6Z5Y7fWg&s=19

    How does the EU go to war in the Ukraine without Germany, exactly? Are they going to rely on the French?
    That's not what the article says. The EU says Europe is closer to war, etc.

    Nobody is going to war in Ukraine except Russia. Even the normally demented tory couch commandos on here don't want British forces involved.
    And yet a small contingent of UK troops are there. Is this wise?
    If anything, letting Russia regain Ukraine by force with no consequence seems to me to be repeating the mistakes of the past…

    “If we let them have this they’ll give up with any further demands”. Yeah, right
    Spot on. If I were the UKPM, and Ukraine asked for help, I'd give it. Troops, equipment, bombs, planes. Anything. We need to contain Putin's aggression.
    The UK has had C-17s shuttling back and forth between Kiev with anti-tank weapons since yesterday.
    I just hope they're paying for them.
    The projectile-anti-squid-tank-apparatus is the finest in the world. Twelve men, a week, and it's ready to shoot entirely ineffectively at any tank within 100 paces. So fearsome in fact that the first offence use is generally regarded as knocking on the tanks door and asking if they'd like to surrender.

    The brave Generals of our armed services (nameless as well as nearly countless) have lunched night and day to deliver this. Only a few billion over budget, and we only have two rather than the 450 that had been envisaged.
    The more reason to try to make something back on them.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    I think Matt Singh was correct in saying that “those areas were trending away from Labour”” and that realignment of politics takes more than just one individual.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    'Diego Carlos asks to leave Sevilla because he wants to move to Newcastle'

    Must be the beer.......

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12519257/diego-carlos-sevilla-defender-asks-to-leave-club-as-he-wants-to-move-to-newcastle
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    Your problem is that, according to the polls, most of them have gone back to voting Labour already.
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 288
    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    I think it is wrong, at least in some cases. Take some of the Nottinghamshire small town seats. Once there were coal mines but demographically these place are now very little different to Gainsborough over the Trent which has been Tory since the dinosaurs died. Labour might get them back in a very good year but otherwise I think they are blue.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Another email to a constituent, this time from @kevinhollinrake. Says “There is a requirement within the [ministerial code] that any significant breach would necessitate the rendering of a resignation, and this of course applies to the Prime Minister.”



    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1483497509704065026

    "significant" being a highly operative word there.
  • Is Hancock at 170 worth a [betting] nibble as a trading bet?

    Not yet but think about it after the next PM is elected, as a return to the Cabinet would make him a contender next time.
  • Another email to a constituent, this time from @kevinhollinrake. Says “There is a requirement within the [ministerial code] that any significant breach would necessitate the rendering of a resignation, and this of course applies to the Prime Minister.”



    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1483497509704065026

    I know Kevin and he is a very successful businessman and an excellent conservative mp
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
    Well @Cyclefree was more she isn't qualified to do the job but David Allen Green over the weekend also pointed out that her remit may not be enough to allow her to reach a conclusion because who wishes to criticise a boss who may remain in place
    Sue Gray is famous for not liking things written down, or released to the public. She hates FOI requests. She hates email.

    I'm not sure she is the ideal person to run this inquiry.
    Oh she was the ideal person to run the inquiry UNTIL Cummings came along and provided evidence that could no longer be ignored.

    Now there is evidence that needs to be dismissed her job is rather harder than before as she will need to work out how to deny seeing the large, very obvious elephant sat in front of her desk.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Omnium said:

    FPT

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    BBC

    EU fears it is closer to war than ever since the break-up of ex Yugoslavia

    This is becoming very serious and real

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1483168325538570248?t=BfsDeErSEdxW-p6Z5Y7fWg&s=19

    How does the EU go to war in the Ukraine without Germany, exactly? Are they going to rely on the French?
    That's not what the article says. The EU says Europe is closer to war, etc.

    Nobody is going to war in Ukraine except Russia. Even the normally demented tory couch commandos on here don't want British forces involved.
    And yet a small contingent of UK troops are there. Is this wise?
    If anything, letting Russia regain Ukraine by force with no consequence seems to me to be repeating the mistakes of the past…

    “If we let them have this they’ll give up with any further demands”. Yeah, right
    Spot on. If I were the UKPM, and Ukraine asked for help, I'd give it. Troops, equipment, bombs, planes. Anything. We need to contain Putin's aggression.
    The UK has had C-17s shuttling back and forth between Kiev with anti-tank weapons since yesterday.
    I just hope they're paying for them.
    The projectile-anti-squid-tank-apparatus is the finest in the world. Twelve men, a week, and it's ready to shoot entirely ineffectively at any tank within 100 paces. So fearsome in fact that the first offence use is generally regarded as knocking on the tanks door and asking if they'd like to surrender.

    The brave Generals of our armed services (nameless as well as nearly countless) have lunched night and day to deliver this. Only a few billion over budget, and we only have two rather than the 450 that had been envisaged.
    The speculation is that the weapons in question are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBT_LAW

    There are claims that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin has either been supplied, won't be supplied, or will be supplied.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,880

    Another email to a constituent, this time from @kevinhollinrake. Says “There is a requirement within the [ministerial code] that any significant breach would necessitate the rendering of a resignation, and this of course applies to the Prime Minister.”



    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1483497509704065026

    I know Kevin and he is a very successful businessman and an excellent conservative mp
    Not at the same time, one hopes.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    "Westminster bubble"

    What political or Government-related news stories most caught Britons' attention in the past week?

    The most commonly cited topic is the Downing Street parties, a response given by 66% of respondents.



    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1483491903920381954?s=20

    The word “Tory” much more prominent than “Boris Johnson”. Looks like it is the party that’s going to pay the price, not just the errant individual.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Ruth Begby of Sky News is an interesting assassin, given her recent history

    She's even on Countdown this week, no less.
    She's counting down the end of his premiership

    :smiley:
  • rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
    Well @Cyclefree was more she isn't qualified to do the job but David Allen Green over the weekend also pointed out that her remit may not be enough to allow her to reach a conclusion because who wishes to criticise a boss who may remain in place
    Sue Gray is famous for not liking things written down, or released to the public. She hates FOI requests. She hates email.

    I'm not sure she is the ideal person to run this inquiry.
    Sometimes former poachers make the best gamekeepers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    "Westminster bubble"

    What political or Government-related news stories most caught Britons' attention in the past week?

    The most commonly cited topic is the Downing Street parties, a response given by 66% of respondents.



    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1483491903920381954?s=20

    The word “Tory” much more prominent than “Boris Johnson”. Looks like it is the party that’s going to pay the price, not just the errant individual.
    Was "Boris's Parties" on offer as a choice? ;)
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
    The Corbyn comparison is interesting - will there be a similar mass disavowal of Johnson when he is gone? Will he find himself outside the Conservative party within a year, and his supporters be gradually shuffled out of positions of power? It's hard to tell whether he has changed the party for good.
    Even Starmer was in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for goodness sake, as was Rayner, Ashworth etc.

    McConnell, Abbott etc still Labour MPs.

    Corbyn may have gone but his supporters have hardly been all expelled from Labour
    I wasn't suggesting Corbyn's supporters have been expelled from the party, but it's generally accepted that each reshuffle by Starmer has moved a few more members of the previous Corbyn faction a bit further from power. There's been a very conscious effort to distance the party from the Corbyn era as soon as possible. Will the post-Johnson Conservative narrative be more like "excellent leader, did some good things which we are continuing, shame he screwed up" or "none of us ever really supported his dreadful policies"?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,880

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
    Well @Cyclefree was more she isn't qualified to do the job but David Allen Green over the weekend also pointed out that her remit may not be enough to allow her to reach a conclusion because who wishes to criticise a boss who may remain in place
    Sue Gray is famous for not liking things written down, or released to the public. She hates FOI requests. She hates email.

    I'm not sure she is the ideal person to run this inquiry.
    Sometimes former poachers make the best gamekeepers.
    Might be the other way round if the suggestion here is borne out:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/18/great-wrecker-boris-johnson-hole-sunlit-uplands-failed
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Please tell me that is a joke?
    That's not Boris's flat, for the 55th time. That is Lulu Lytle's own flat.

    https://youtu.be/gtW6fgrUIMI
    I know, apols, it was posted as an example of Lytle's work.

    I forgot to take any photos when I was at the party work-based event in No. 11.
  • eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
    Well @Cyclefree was more she isn't qualified to do the job but David Allen Green over the weekend also pointed out that her remit may not be enough to allow her to reach a conclusion because who wishes to criticise a boss who may remain in place
    Sue Gray is famous for not liking things written down, or released to the public. She hates FOI requests. She hates email.

    I'm not sure she is the ideal person to run this inquiry.
    Oh she was the ideal person to run the inquiry UNTIL Cummings came along and provided evidence that could no longer be ignored.

    Now there is evidence that needs to be dismissed her job is rather harder than before as she will need to work out how to deny seeing the large, very obvious elephant sat in front of her desk.
    I think it is excellent she is interviewing Cummings as she can then compare his evidence with Martin Reynolds
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    edited January 2022
    JonWC said:

    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    I think it is wrong, at least in some cases. Take some of the Nottinghamshire small town seats. Once there were coal mines but demographically these place are now very little different to Gainsborough over the Trent which has been Tory since the dinosaurs died. Labour might get them back in a very good year but otherwise I think they are blue.
    Even Sunak as leader would lose 104 Tory seats in a new poll today. Cummings is dragging down the whole party not just Boris
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1483469746217566212?s=20
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    To be honest is it right for them to gather as a faction? What should be so different about them as any other Conservative elected MP in 2019? It’s easy to appreciate them meeting secretly together is going to rankle the others.
    I doubt they are any worse than the ERG/CRG nutters.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    I was thinking same thing! I am not sure I'd want the job if I had to look at that paper every day, it's fecking revolting. I am sure Leon has seen more tasteful tart's boudoirs
    Perhaps we will get to see the expensively redecorated flat once the new PM is in place. David Cameron showed us his new kitchen in a Sun (iirc) video.
  • France reports 464,769 new coronavirus cases, by far the biggest one-day increase on record
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
    I'm with Kinabalu. I'd like to think I preferred the edgier John pieces, but ultimately I love a nice tune and so Paul's songs are usually the ones for me. What a band, to have both men in it.
    None of the Beatles have a good Christmas song though. On that metric they are doing worse than Slade.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,671
    edited January 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Please tell me that is a joke?
    That's not Boris's flat, for the 55th time. That is Lulu Lytle's own flat.

    https://youtu.be/gtW6fgrUIMI
    I know, apols, it was posted as an example of Lytle's work.

    I forgot to take any photos when I was at the party work-based event in No. 11.
    I should imagine that No 11 is similar albeit improved by the addition of crayon marks and dog scratches.
  • Carnyx said:

    Another email to a constituent, this time from @kevinhollinrake. Says “There is a requirement within the [ministerial code] that any significant breach would necessitate the rendering of a resignation, and this of course applies to the Prime Minister.”



    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1483497509704065026

    I know Kevin and he is a very successful businessman and an excellent conservative mp
    Not at the same time, one hopes.
    When I knew him he was not an mp but I assume he still owns his company though devoted his energy to his constituents
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
    Well @Cyclefree was more she isn't qualified to do the job but David Allen Green over the weekend also pointed out that her remit may not be enough to allow her to reach a conclusion because who wishes to criticise a boss who may remain in place
    Sue Gray is famous for not liking things written down, or released to the public. She hates FOI requests. She hates email.

    I'm not sure she is the ideal person to run this inquiry.
    Probably from her time on a career break, mid "Civil Service" career as a pub landlady in Newry for nearly a decade, before a remarkable promotion to the Cabinet Office after rejoining government service.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    I think it is wrong, at least in some cases. Take some of the Nottinghamshire small town seats. Once there were coal mines but demographically these place are now very little different to Gainsborough over the Trent which has been Tory since the dinosaurs died. Labour might get them back in a very good year but otherwise I think they are blue.
    Even Sunak as leader would lose 104 Tory seats in a new poll today. Cummings is dragging down the whole party not just Boris
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1483469746217566212?s=20
    My favourite HY post of the year. Even better than his white flag post.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    Why is that weird? The Tories have no principles, we’re just interested in power. :smiley:
    Exactly. The Tories are much better at politics than the other parties.
  • Welsh conservatives cancel their Spring conference due in March
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,880

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    BBC

    EU fears it is closer to war than ever since the break-up of ex Yugoslavia

    This is becoming very serious and real

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1483168325538570248?t=BfsDeErSEdxW-p6Z5Y7fWg&s=19

    How does the EU go to war in the Ukraine without Germany, exactly? Are they going to rely on the French?
    That's not what the article says. The EU says Europe is closer to war, etc.

    Nobody is going to war in Ukraine except Russia. Even the normally demented tory couch commandos on here don't want British forces involved.
    And yet a small contingent of UK troops are there. Is this wise?
    If anything, letting Russia regain Ukraine by force with no consequence seems to me to be repeating the mistakes of the past…

    “If we let them have this they’ll give up with any further demands”. Yeah, right
    Spot on. If I were the UKPM, and Ukraine asked for help, I'd give it. Troops, equipment, bombs, planes. Anything. We need to contain Putin's aggression.
    The UK has had C-17s shuttling back and forth between Kiev with anti-tank weapons since yesterday.
    I just hope they're paying for them.
    The projectile-anti-squid-tank-apparatus is the finest in the world. Twelve men, a week, and it's ready to shoot entirely ineffectively at any tank within 100 paces. So fearsome in fact that the first offence use is generally regarded as knocking on the tanks door and asking if they'd like to surrender.

    The brave Generals of our armed services (nameless as well as nearly countless) have lunched night and day to deliver this. Only a few billion over budget, and we only have two rather than the 450 that had been envisaged.
    The speculation is that the weapons in question are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBT_LAW

    There are claims that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin has either been supplied, won't be supplied, or will be supplied.
    But the Russian tanks are absolutely covered with explosive blocks to defeat those things. Unless there is something I don't know? They do have top attack mode, but that'd only get the engine decks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Rab Butler was never considered PM, although he was in acting charge after Eden resigned until Macmillan was appointed. The previous time the question arose was in 1865, and then and every time before an obvious successor was appointed immediately (in 1865 former Prime Minister and incumbent Foreign Secretary Lord John Russell).
    When Churchill had a stroke there was a bit activity behind the scenes iirc? Lord Salisbury was considered as caretaker as Eden was having an operation.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    Why is that weird? The Tories have no principles, we’re just interested in power. :smiley:
    Exactly. The Tories are much better at politics than the other parties.
    ...and not very good at principles.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209

    Polruan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
    The Corbyn comparison is interesting - will there be a similar mass disavowal of Johnson when he is gone? Will he find himself outside the Conservative party within a year, and his supporters be gradually shuffled out of positions of power? It's hard to tell whether he has changed the party for good.
    I expect he will leave the HOC very quickly
    You don't see him as a backbencher chairing one of the big committees then?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823

    Welsh conservatives cancel their Spring conference due in March

    Why?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,880

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Please tell me that is a joke?
    That's not Boris's flat, for the 55th time. That is Lulu Lytle's own flat.

    https://youtu.be/gtW6fgrUIMI
    I know, apols, it was posted as an example of Lytle's work.

    I forgot to take any photos when I was at the party work-based event in No. 11.
    I should imagine that No 11 is similar albeit improved by the addition of crayon marks and dog scratches.
    Surprised if they were visible, tbh.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    I think it is wrong, at least in some cases. Take some of the Nottinghamshire small town seats. Once there were coal mines but demographically these place are now very little different to Gainsborough over the Trent which has been Tory since the dinosaurs died. Labour might get them back in a very good year but otherwise I think they are blue.
    Even Sunak as leader would lose 104 Tory seats in a new poll today. Cummings is dragging down the whole party not just Boris
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1483469746217566212?s=20
    Surely you mean Sunak is dragging down the party? As I understand it, Cummings has never been a member.
  • Polruan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
    The Corbyn comparison is interesting - will there be a similar mass disavowal of Johnson when he is gone? Will he find himself outside the Conservative party within a year, and his supporters be gradually shuffled out of positions of power? It's hard to tell whether he has changed the party for good.
    Even Starmer was in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for goodness sake, as was Rayner, Ashworth etc.

    McConnell, Abbott etc still Labour MPs.

    Corbyn may have gone but his supporters have hardly been all expelled from Labour
    I wasn't suggesting Corbyn's supporters have been expelled from the party, but it's generally accepted that each reshuffle by Starmer has moved a few more members of the previous Corbyn faction a bit further from power. There's been a very conscious effort to distance the party from the Corbyn era as soon as possible. Will the post-Johnson Conservative narrative be more like "excellent leader, did some good things which we are continuing, shame he screwed up" or "none of us ever really supported his dreadful policies"?
    I will be grateful to Boris for Brexit and generally his handling of covid but will condemn his lack of judgement and honesty over partygate etc
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2022
    Polruan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This really is the weirdest time in politics and PB that I can remember. It’s really strange to see Conservatives let rip at their own leader. It’s doubly weird that none of these revelations about Boris’ character are news. It will be odd to see people snap back to support this bunch, who by and large will be the same people that have backed Boris as if nothing had happened and say it’s all new.

    As far as I am concerned Boris achieved Brexit and has done well on covid

    I had no problem with him until the Paterson debacle, coupled with wallpapergate and partygate, and he simply has to go

    Let us not forget that labour's cabinet largely voted for Corbyn and Starmer was deeply involved in that cabinet

    I will rejoin the conservatives once Boris has gone
    The Corbyn comparison is interesting - will there be a similar mass disavowal of Johnson when he is gone? Will he find himself outside the Conservative party within a year, and his supporters be gradually shuffled out of positions of power? It's hard to tell whether he has changed the party for good.
    Even Starmer was in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet for goodness sake, as was Rayner, Ashworth etc.

    McConnell, Abbott etc still Labour MPs.

    Corbyn may have gone but his supporters have hardly been all expelled from Labour
    I wasn't suggesting Corbyn's supporters have been expelled from the party, but it's generally accepted that each reshuffle by Starmer has moved a few more members of the previous Corbyn faction a bit further from power. There's been a very conscious effort to distance the party from the Corbyn era as soon as possible. Will the post-Johnson Conservative narrative be more like "excellent leader, did some good things which we are continuing, shame he screwed up" or "none of us ever really supported his dreadful policies"?
    The Corbyn period wasn't in fact "Stalinist", as some sometimes like to caricature it here on PB, but in reality a mixture of the left and centre-left of the Labour Party. This is why figures like Ed Miliband were accepted by both the Corbyn and Starmer regimes. Similarly not all members of the Johnson administration have been very strongly on the rightwing, for instance, even though he conducted a purge beforehand.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    I think it is wrong, at least in some cases. Take some of the Nottinghamshire small town seats. Once there were coal mines but demographically these place are now very little different to Gainsborough over the Trent which has been Tory since the dinosaurs died. Labour might get them back in a very good year but otherwise I think they are blue.
    Even Sunak as leader would lose 104 Tory seats in a new poll today. Cummings is dragging down the whole party not just Boris
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1483469746217566212?s=20
    Surely you mean Sunak is dragging down the party? As I understand it, Cummings has never been a member.
    Cummings wants Sunak as PM though, not Starmer
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    Interesting that these two articles are appearing in the left-of-centre New Statesman.

    "Young people have fallen in love with authority
    Youth culture was once rebellious. But in today’s digital world, conformity rules
    By Bruno Maçães" (£)
    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2022/01/youth-culture-was-once-rebellious-but-in-todays-digital-world-conformity-rules

    "How we lost the art of getting well
    Gavin Francis examines how modern medicine tackles the crisis of illness, but neglects the essential process of physical and mental recovery.
    By Henry Marsh" (£)
    https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/books/2022/01/how-we-lost-the-art-of-getting-well
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Why no George Harrison love?

    He produced the best Beatles song (Something), the best post Beatles album (All Things Must Pass), and the last decent song by an ex-Beatle (Long Time Ago When We Were Fab).
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Is Hancock at 170 worth a [betting] nibble as a trading bet?

    I've got more chance in the NFL draft.

  • HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    I think it is wrong, at least in some cases. Take some of the Nottinghamshire small town seats. Once there were coal mines but demographically these place are now very little different to Gainsborough over the Trent which has been Tory since the dinosaurs died. Labour might get them back in a very good year but otherwise I think they are blue.
    Even Sunak as leader would lose 104 Tory seats in a new poll today. Cummings is dragging down the whole party not just Boris
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1483469746217566212?s=20
    Boris is dragging the party down and Cummings is only highlighting Boris failings

    Again you are trying to hang onto Boris, and Rishi would lose x seats is nonsense when it is hypothetical and not in a new political landscape
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    rcs1000 said:

    Why no George Harrison love?

    He produced the best Beatles song (Something), the best post Beatles album (All Things Must Pass), and the last decent song by an ex-Beatle (Long Time Ago When We Were Fab).

    George Harrison, let us not forget, was in the Beatles, left the Beatles, and released All Thing Must Pass by the age of 28.

    You lot are all slackers by comparison.
  • Cookie said:

    Welsh conservatives cancel their Spring conference due in March

    Why?
    Apparently due to continuing covid restrictions in Wales
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Cummings wants Sunak as PM though, not Starmer

    To be fair, Cummings isn't like a manufacturer who sells a dangerous washing machine and then does nothing to correct the problem. He recognises that he installed a dangerous shopping-trolley as PM and he's now working hard to decommission it. A man of integrity, clearly.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Please tell me that is a joke?
    That's not Boris's flat, for the 55th time. That is Lulu Lytle's own flat.

    https://youtu.be/gtW6fgrUIMI
    I know, apols, it was posted as an example of Lytle's work.

    I forgot to take any photos when I was at the party work-based event in No. 11.
    Sorry, it wasn't aimed at you.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,665
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    JonWC said:

    HYUFD said:

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Not wrong though. Most redwall voters only voted for Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, repeat for Boris not the Tories.

    If Boris goes most of the redwall will go back to voting Labour as it normally does
    I think it is wrong, at least in some cases. Take some of the Nottinghamshire small town seats. Once there were coal mines but demographically these place are now very little different to Gainsborough over the Trent which has been Tory since the dinosaurs died. Labour might get them back in a very good year but otherwise I think they are blue.
    Even Sunak as leader would lose 104 Tory seats in a new poll today. Cummings is dragging down the whole party not just Boris
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1483469746217566212?s=20
    Surely you mean Sunak is dragging down the party? As I understand it, Cummings has never been a member.
    Cummings wants Sunak as PM though, not Starmer
    Are you sure?

    Cummings has always been, and always will be the consigliere of Michael CorleoneGove.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    rcs1000 said:

    Why no George Harrison love?

    He produced the best Beatles song (Something), the best post Beatles album (All Things Must Pass), and the last decent song by an ex-Beatle (Long Time Ago When We Were Fab).

    Don't forget the Traveling Wilburys.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    So after the Novak send home from the tennis, where does it leave anti vaxxers in sport? Is it fair to stop world number 1 whose is unvaxxed from playing, but world 113 or so can still take part in the tournament?

    For example numerous numbers of England Rugby squad unvaxxed, should they be there?

    Point of order, as of the November internationals, the England rugby vaccination rate was ~90%, corresponding to 3 or 4 unvaccinated players out of a squad of 36.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    eek said:

    So after the Novak send home from the tennis, where does it leave anti vaxxers in sport? Is it fair to stop world number 1 whose is unvaxxed from playing, but world 113 or so can still take part in the tournament?

    For example numerous numbers of England Rugby squad unvaxxed, should they be there?

    The issue with Novax wasn't the fact he hadn't been vaccinated, it was the fact the documentation he used to get himself into Australia without being vaccinated was a pile of lies.
    That is not why they deported him.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Welsh conservatives cancel their Spring conference due in March

    Was Boris invited?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Why no George Harrison love?

    He produced the best Beatles song (Something), the best post Beatles album (All Things Must Pass), and the last decent song by an ex-Beatle (Long Time Ago When We Were Fab).

    I like Any Road a lot
This discussion has been closed.