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Latest next Tory leader betting on the Smarkets exchange – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Heathener said:

    I'm pretty sure it's now* or never for Rishi Sunak. For the reasons cited below, very soon he will also be pretty toxic.

    Since I'm also now pretty sure the Conservatives won't get a working majority in 2024, leader of the Opposition after 14 yrs in power isn't going to be a position of strength from which to rise again. William Hague suffered from being the right guy at the wrong time and I think the same would happen to Sunak.

    Now or never.

    *Now = in the next two months before the fiscal and financial sh*t hits our fans.

    He might not even get elected Opposition Leader.

    After all David Miliband lost the Labour leadership to Ed Miliband after the 2010 Labour general election defeat
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Is Hancock at 170 worth a [betting] nibble as a trading bet?

    no

    Lockdown breaking is far from flavour of the month, and no one wants to be reminded of covid
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    edited January 2022

    Iain Martin
    @iainmartin1
    ·
    35m
    Sorry to go on about this, but his explanation makes no sense. We all know what a work meeting looks like. Under the laws he imposed there was no such thing allowed as a "work event", socialising with colleagues. Thousands were fined for breaking rules. It was all over the news.

    Absolutely, we all know exactly what work meetings look like.

    Many of my work meetings look like this

    image
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited January 2022
    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045

    A very warm welcome to the site to Vlad!

    Lol.

    So very, very transparent.

    SeanT, Bryonic, Fitz, eadric, LadyG, Leon… and now Vlad.
    I always assumed he was a Russian bot. I never bought the whole cornish Europhobe thing.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    Seriously? Anyone in a sensitive job is handed a bin liner and escorted round his desk and out the door. This job is the most sensitive in the UK.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    @Leon looks unbanned to me on Vanilla. Not that he's posted since yesterday mind.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    edited January 2022

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    If we overbuild our wind capacity, we'll have a higher baseline. More wind power potential is a good thing for the UK.
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886

    @Leon looks unbanned to me on Vanilla. Not that he's posted since yesterday mind.

    Looks like he spent an afternoon sinbinned, which given the potential legal issues around the topic was very justified.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843
    eek said:

    Offtopic

    Anyone else seen that New Zealand quietly closed their borders last night
    Aaron Dahmen
    @dahmenaaron
    On Twitter, at 7.47pm on a Tuesday night, the country of New Zealand effectively shuts its border. No one, other than those with an MIQ room already secured/emergency allocations, can come home. And there’s no fixed end date. Inconceivable.

    You can't travel without an MIQ quarantine room booked so unless you've already got one allocated you aren't going back to New Zealand for a (long) while.

    Wow. I knew people who were sofa-surfing for months waiting to get back to NZ. I think they all made it back eventually, but feel very sorry for anyone who has family there or who has left the country on urgent business.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    UK cases by specimen date

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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    UK R

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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Is Hancock at 170 worth a [betting] nibble as a trading bet?

    I would say no but I didn't back Corbyn @990 back in the day.
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    pigeon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott appears to have pasted his last although Leon unbanned?

    Oooh, have their been ructions whilst I've been at work?

    Probably the last person on this site to have heard about the Beth Rigby interview. Am I right in my assumption that Johnson's excuse is now that he genuinely thought that the party with a buffet and booze was a work event, and that - crucially - nobody told him that the party was a party, so therefore (having demonstrated that he is too stupid to recognise that a party is a party) his bad advisors are to blame and he's in the clear? Good grief.
    Yes, except that he takes full responsibility. That's why he's blaming it on his advisers not telling him.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    Case summary

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    Hospitals

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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    A very warm welcome to the site to Vlad!

    Lol.

    So very, very transparent.

    SeanT, Bryonic, Fitz, eadric, LadyG, Leon… and now Vlad.
    I always assumed he was a Russian bot. I never bought the whole cornish Europhobe thing.
    If he reaches twelve regenerations then he's clearly a Time Lord.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    Deaths

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    Penny Mordaunt? Many Poor Don't

    Why is she in the betting list, when none of the 'Spartans' are?

    Surely a Baker or a Harper have a better chance of making the final 2? There's at least 52% of Tory MPs, members and public who are simple enough to vote for them...
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,573

    Completely OT, anyone got any insight on why Indonesia have decided to move their capital from Jakarta to Kalimantan - and whether it will annoy or delight Mastermind contestants :)

    Jakarta is by orders of magnitude the biggest city on by orders of magnitude the most populous island of the archipelago - so a large part of the idea is "levelling up" - Jakarta will continue to flourish much as New York does in the USA. The sinking affects the north of the city, nearest the sea.

    https://coconuts.co/jakarta/news/vast-indonesia-settles-on-nusantara-name-for-new-capital-city-which-means-archipelago/

    Whether it turns into a "Washington" or a "Brasilia", time will tell.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    Age related data

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    How many letters are in, I wonder ?
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    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    The tory backbenchers have some wins to bank on covid freedoms and they may decide that they don't want the publicity of a leadership election getting in the way of those.

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him, many of whom are for the chop anyway.

    Seriously, the MPs may think that's enough for now.

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,096
    edited January 2022
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    Graywash, you mean :)
  • Options

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    I was thinking same thing! I am not sure I'd want the job if I had to look at that paper every day, it's fecking revolting. I am sure Leon has seen more tasteful tart's boudoirs
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    IshmaelZ said:

    Is Hancock at 170 worth a [betting] nibble as a trading bet?

    no

    Lockdown breaking is far from flavour of the month, and no one wants to be reminded of Matt Hancock
    Tidied
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,711
    edited January 2022

    Penny Mordaunt? Many Poor Don't

    Why is she in the betting list, when none of the 'Spartans' are?

    Surely a Baker or a Harper have a better chance of making the final 2? There's at least 52% of Tory MPs, members and public who are simple enough to vote for them...

    Past Brexit now - may be a mistake to think they will vote similarly. Mordaunt may appeal to some. Also Truss. Harper wasn't in the ERG by the way (he voted Remain).
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of @IshmaelZ self-discipline.
    Whereof we cannot speak...

    There's a case to be made all the Beatles were better outside the Beatles. I like George Harrison.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of @IshmaelZ self-discipline.
    McCartney wrote some superb songs - "You Never GIve Me Your Money", "Eleanor Rigby", and "Mother Nature's Boy", particularly.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    Chameleon said:

    @Leon looks unbanned to me on Vanilla. Not that he's posted since yesterday mind.

    Looks like he spent an afternoon sinbinned, which given the potential legal issues around the topic was very justified.

    Was it something he posted last night? There was a line at the end of one of his posts that look well-beyond dodgy to me.
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    @Leon looks unbanned to me on Vanilla. Not that he's posted since yesterday mind.

    GPT-3 needs a reboot?
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    A BBC journalist just referred to 51% in an opinion poll as “a vast, vast majority”. Where do they find these people?
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    How many letters are in, I wonder ?

    seven
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584

    A BBC journalist just referred to 51% in an opinion poll as “a vast, vast majority”. Where do they find these people?

    PB?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    Pulpstar said:

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    If we overbuild our wind capacity, we'll have a higher baseline. More wind power potential is a good thing for the UK.
    As long as we can find an efficient way to store the surplus it is no problem whatsoever. Its all about batteries, really.
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,336

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    I'd imagine he'd want to stay on just to try and improve his reputation a bit before leaving office. He's a shambles and a laughing stock at the moment, but maybe able 'Get Covid Done' and the odd 'legacy' thing he could agree with likely successors to sell as an achievement could take the edge off. Obviously his reputation will never properly recover but may be able to sell himself as a PM who dealt with big things in his premiership but was brought low by a silly mistake. Nonsense of course, he's a deeply unpleasant entitled clown who's made a career out of assuming rules didn't apply to him and it's who he is, but lots of people didn't mind when they thought the joke and the lies were aimed at someone else other than them.
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    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,711
    MISTY said:

    The tory backbenchers have some wins to bank on covid freedoms and they may decide that they don't want the publicity of a leadership election getting in the way of those.

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him, many of whom are for the chop anyway.

    Seriously, the MPs may think that's enough for now.

    Competition: We should have our best guess at the month a new permanent leader is in place.

    I'm going with April.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221
    COVID summary

    - Cases are continuing there healing fall. While this maybe partially as a result of the new testing regime, the other indicators suggest that this is at least mostly real. R is down to 0.6 which is a bit of a record low for this epidemic.
    - Admissions are down. R is below 1.
    - MV beds continue their decline
    - We are seeing signs that deaths are levelling off

    image
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    This is a really interesting issue from an Indyref2 perspective.

    25GW is roughly what the UK is burning in fossil fuels for electricity at the moment, so Scotland can become an energy powerhouse (again) once this is developed. Consider the switch to electric cars and away from boilers.

    England needs to match that kind of offshore wind development to fend off a new surge of energy-nationalism - "we don't need the Scots".

    The SNP are quite nuclear-averse, too, so having a few new reactors in pocket will be very important for countering that argument.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Good god, that's hideous. I've seen better in my local curry shop.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Wallpaper is hideous, but I like the picture
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    That's a good question. @ydoethur will tell us
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Been interesting watching Nicola Sturgeon today condemning Douglas Ross for the crime of initially supporting Boris as Leader. Before Ross become the very first Tory MP to call for his resignation.

    Apparently he should have known what Boris was about.

    This is the same Sturgeon who faithfully supported Alex Salmond for ten years as his deputy despite it being common knowledge what he was about. Only turning him on him years later, after he was safely out of power.

    Not sure if she's chosen her attack line very well.

    You mean, the fact that Alex Salmond is rap...errr...I...mean...ra...ther good at chess.
    In Scotland its more jigsaws you need to be very careful about. They can get you locked up.
    Leon won't be visiting Wick again any time soon. Shame.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Eabhal, PS5 is dramatically quieter than the PS4 (thankfully).
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,155
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Thin markets, but Raab 20 on Betfair for next PM (decent value, IMO) vs 29 for next leader (which is way too short), so you are not alone.

    An outsider is possible, should MPs and Tory selectorate decide the entire cabinet is tainted*. But rather unlikely.

    *It is.
    Read the market rules, caretaker leaders might not pay out.
    PM is fortunately a gazateered position so there less ambiguity.
    BF rules seem to say that they will pay out based on the following official webpage:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/prime-minister

    Be interesting to see what happens if Raab as Deputy acts as a caretaker, should Johnson flounce with immediate effect. No doubt I am reading too much into things, but it is worth noting that the official page does not record that RAB Butler acted as a caretaker PM for Eden when he was ill or away overseas for weeks on end.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881

    Mr. Eabhal, PS5 is dramatically quieter than the PS4 (thankfully).

    Great, I'll order one now....
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Stocky said:

    MISTY said:

    The tory backbenchers have some wins to bank on covid freedoms and they may decide that they don't want the publicity of a leadership election getting in the way of those.

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him, many of whom are for the chop anyway.

    Seriously, the MPs may think that's enough for now.

    Competition: We should have our best guess at the month a new permanent leader is in place.

    I'm going with April.
    Doesn't a tory leadership election a 10 weeks? Even if Johnson resigned tomorrow, April would be pretty tight.

    I would go with September.
  • Options
    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    edited January 2022
    Stocky said:

    MISTY said:

    The tory backbenchers have some wins to bank on covid freedoms and they may decide that they don't want the publicity of a leadership election getting in the way of those.

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him, many of whom are for the chop anyway.

    Seriously, the MPs may think that's enough for now.

    Competition: We should have our best guess at the month a new permanent leader is in place.

    I'm going with April.
    Competition 2: if Boris departs reasonably quickly, how long after the 2024 election defeat before he is being touted as a proven election winner, languishing unfairly on the backbenches, having been an innocent victim of a remainer stitch-up, who is the only candidate to reconnect the Tory party with the voting public? I give it 4 months.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    Council-backed energy firm Together Energy latest to go bust

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60038685
  • Options

    Been interesting watching Nicola Sturgeon today condemning Douglas Ross for the crime of initially supporting Boris as Leader. Before Ross become the very first Tory MP to call for his resignation.

    Apparently he should have known what Boris was about.

    This is the same Sturgeon who faithfully supported Alex Salmond for ten years as his deputy despite it being common knowledge what he was about. Only turning him on him years later, after he was safely out of power.

    Not sure if she's chosen her attack line very well.

    That’s a bit of a setback given that you usually praise her attack lines.
  • Options

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    Johnson's inevitable demise and the massive damage he has done to the Conservative Party is one of the least enjoyable "I told you so"s I have ever had.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,363
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,460
    Eabhal said:

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    This is a really interesting issue from an Indyref2 perspective.

    25GW is roughly what the UK is burning in fossil fuels for electricity at the moment, so Scotland can become an energy powerhouse (again) once this is developed. Consider the switch to electric cars and away from boilers.

    England needs to match that kind of offshore wind development to fend off a new surge of energy-nationalism - "we don't need the Scots".

    The SNP are quite nuclear-averse, too, so having a few new reactors in pocket will be very important for countering that argument.
    England (and Wales) needs a mixture, and to build as fast as humanly possible. Offshore wind in the Irish Sea and North Sea, more solar both commercial and residential after a lull in recent years - very useful in summer when the wind drops, tidal, and more investment in interconnectors. We should be aiming for surplus electricity. That's one of the best ways to wean the country off domestic gas.
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    If Boris does go, his leaving drinks are going to be awkward.

    Excellent post!! Lol
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    Pulpstar said:

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    If we overbuild our wind capacity, we'll have a higher baseline. More wind power potential is a good thing for the UK.
    A higher level of renewables increases the overall cost of providing decarbonised power.

    Going all-in on CCS would be a better option, but people like to see wind turbines as a visualisation of 'green'.
  • Options
    MJW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    I'd imagine he'd want to stay on just to try and improve his reputation a bit before leaving office. He's a shambles and a laughing stock at the moment, but maybe able 'Get Covid Done' and the odd 'legacy' thing he could agree with likely successors to sell as an achievement could take the edge off. Obviously his reputation will never properly recover but may be able to sell himself as a PM who dealt with big things in his premiership but was brought low by a silly mistake. Nonsense of course, he's a deeply unpleasant entitled clown who's made a career out of assuming rules didn't apply to him and it's who he is, but lots of people didn't mind when they thought the joke and the lies were aimed at someone else other than them.
    Post of the day
  • Options
    The 5.00 clock news is appalling for Boris and he has PMQs tomorrow

    How about him making a statement at 12 noon to the house that he got things wrong, accepts his responsibility, and will formally resign from office as soon as his successor is appointed by his party

    If would be most unexpected but better than being dragged through vonc and months of angst with the inevitable still happening
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,573
    Two British aircraft taking very different flight paths to Ukraine and back. The weapon transporting C-17s are avoiding Germany whilst a surveillance aircraft, an RC-135, is passing through....

    The UK and Germany have effectively said "ahhh, but, Germany didn't deny overflight rights as the UK didn't even ask!". Fast forward to today and a British RC-135 surveillance flies through Germany, while a British C-17 transport aircraft avoids... one is carrying weapons.


    https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1483475601273020423?s=20
  • Options
    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:


    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.

    Yes, that's certainly a big difference between this contest and the last two. It's all rather uncharted territory, TBH.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881

    Been interesting watching Nicola Sturgeon today condemning Douglas Ross for the crime of initially supporting Boris as Leader. Before Ross become the very first Tory MP to call for his resignation.

    Apparently he should have known what Boris was about.

    This is the same Sturgeon who faithfully supported Alex Salmond for ten years as his deputy despite it being common knowledge what he was about. Only turning him on him years later, after he was safely out of power.

    Not sure if she's chosen her attack line very well.

    That’s a bit of a setback given that you usually praise her attack lines.
    It doesn't work because you'd have to basically accuse her of being an accessory to multiple sexual assaults.

    Which makes you sound ridiculous. Or banned from PB.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,097

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited January 2022
    The options are obviously a smooth handover to Rishi, and a more troubled period perhaps in which Sunak resigns but Johnson still seeks to stay in place. After the months of truly awful headlines, I can't believe that Tory MP's are going to want all the media coverage to be about "Tory Chaos" for another few weeks, or even months.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,711
    If anyone thinks Johnson can survive this there are some good odds available.
  • Options

    The 5.00 clock news is appalling for Boris and he has PMQs tomorrow

    How about him making a statement at 12 noon to the house that he got things wrong, accepts his responsibility, and will formally resign from office as soon as his successor is appointed by his party

    If would be most unexpected but better than being dragged through vonc and months of angst with the inevitable still happening

    He doesn't have the dignity to do that. Or possibly permission from the current Mrs Johnson.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,573
    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,217

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    Johnson's inevitable demise and the massive damage he has done to the Conservative Party is one of the least enjoyable "I told you so"s I have ever had.
    Man up, for God's sake.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Jonathan said:

    If Boris does go, his leaving drinks are going to be awkward.

    If you get an invite could and you get to speak to the big man could you ask if Robert Thompson's been sacked? I think he's been treated shabbily.
  • Options

    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Good
  • Options

    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Oh to be a fly on the wall (or nowadays, a Zoom hacker) at that one!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    That's a good question. @ydoethur will tell us
    The nearest one I can think of would be Portland, who resigned after Canning (FS) and Castlereagh (War Secretary) fought a duel. Or possibly Bute, who resigned after allegations he was having an affair with the dowager Queen - but that was invented.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584

    The options are obviously a smooth handover to Rishi, and a more troubled period perhaps in which Sunak resigns but Johnson still seeks to stay in place. After the months of truly awful headlines, I can't believe that Tory MP's are going to want all the media coverage to be about "Tory Chaos" for another few weeks, or even months.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXw2JEdOY30

    "a muscular* foot helps him hang on"

    * (c)Barty Roberts
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Chris said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
    Well @Cyclefree was more she isn't qualified to do the job but David Allen Green over the weekend also pointed out that her remit may not be enough to allow her to reach a conclusion because who wishes to criticise a boss who may remain in place
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,155

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,096
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
    I don't like that one either and I like Imagine even less. What I do like - even more now than originally - is Give Peace A Chance. And his other simple chanty one, All You Need Is Love, that I also like.
  • Options

    The 5.00 clock news is appalling for Boris and he has PMQs tomorrow

    How about him making a statement at 12 noon to the house that he got things wrong, accepts his responsibility, and will formally resign from office as soon as his successor is appointed by his party

    If would be most unexpected but better than being dragged through vonc and months of angst with the inevitable still happening

    He doesn't have the dignity to do that. Or possibly permission from the current Mrs Johnson.
    That is why I said unexpected but it would be a huge relief
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,573
    edited January 2022
    "Westminster bubble"

    What political or Government-related news stories most caught Britons' attention in the past week?

    The most commonly cited topic is the Downing Street parties, a response given by 66% of respondents.



    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1483491903920381954?s=20
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,460

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    Johnson's inevitable demise and the massive damage he has done to the Conservative Party is one of the least enjoyable "I told you so"s I have ever had.
    No, just watch in awe as the miraculous Tory skill for total reinvention every time they replace a leader strikes yet again. Such will be the relief that someone half presentable is now in high office (assuming it's Sunak) that I expect a decent honeymoon and poll leads within a couple of months. Starmer doesn't have the positive momentum yet, it's all been about negative momentum for Boris.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    This is a really interesting issue from an Indyref2 perspective.

    25GW is roughly what the UK is burning in fossil fuels for electricity at the moment, so Scotland can become an energy powerhouse (again) once this is developed. Consider the switch to electric cars and away from boilers.

    England needs to match that kind of offshore wind development to fend off a new surge of energy-nationalism - "we don't need the Scots".

    The SNP are quite nuclear-averse, too, so having a few new reactors in pocket will be very important for countering that argument.
    England (and Wales) needs a mixture, and to build as fast as humanly possible. Offshore wind in the Irish Sea and North Sea, more solar both commercial and residential after a lull in recent years - very useful in summer when the wind drops, tidal, and more investment in interconnectors. We should be aiming for surplus electricity. That's one of the best ways to wean the country off domestic gas.
    Always surprised at how much we get from solar. Real success story given the relative lack of investment/interest in it.

    I read a really good article about "surplus energy" somewhere. Could be transformational if marginal cost approaches zero with so many of our day-to-day costs derived from it.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Theresa May?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
    Its one of my favourite Christmas songs. Its always such a relief from the wall to wall pap you get on playlists at that time of year.
  • Options

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    I think we are in interesting times to be honest
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
    I don't like that one either and I like Imagine even less. What I do like - even more now than originally - is Give Peace A Chance. And his other simple chanty one, All You Need Is Love, that I also like.
    A Day In The Life is a superb Lennon song - with McCartney interludes - as is Tomorrow Never Knows.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881

    "Westminster bubble"

    What political or Government-related news stories most caught Britons' attention in the past week?

    The most commonly cited topic is the Downing Street parties, a response given by 66% of respondents.



    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1483491903920381954?s=20

    "Tory parties" - it's contagious, and they didn't lockdown quickly enough.

    Wait for the vaccine (Sunak) but the damage is done.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    MISTY said:

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him

    Isn't this how our democracy is supposed to work?

  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Theresa May?
    I suggested that days ago but my feedback is unlikely
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,573
    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Theresa May?
    That’d be funny.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,221

    Two British aircraft taking very different flight paths to Ukraine and back. The weapon transporting C-17s are avoiding Germany whilst a surveillance aircraft, an RC-135, is passing through....

    The UK and Germany have effectively said "ahhh, but, Germany didn't deny overflight rights as the UK didn't even ask!". Fast forward to today and a British RC-135 surveillance flies through Germany, while a British C-17 transport aircraft avoids... one is carrying weapons.


    https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1483475601273020423?s=20


    "They're sending a new flag up on the tall ship," the watcher said. "The flag is yellow . . . with a black and red circle in the center."
    "There's a subtle piece of business," Paul said. "The CHOAM Company flag."
    "It's the same as the flag at the other ships," the Fedaykin guard said.
    "I don't understand," Stilgar said.
    "A subtle piece of business indeed," Gurney said. "Had he sent up the Atreides banner, he'd have had to live by what that meant. Too many observers about. He could've signaled with the Harkonnen flag on his staff - a flat declaration that'd have been. But, no - he sends up the CHOAM rag. He's telling the people up there . . . " Gurney pointed toward space. " . . . where the profit is......
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,890

    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Oh to be a fly on the wall (or nowadays, a Zoom hacker) at that one!
    If I had any dealings with Cummings, I would record every word. For one thing, he's a lying, untrustworthy POS. For another, he'd be bound to be recording the conversation as well... ;)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Rab Butler was never considered PM, although he was in acting charge after Eden resigned until Macmillan was appointed. The previous time the question arose was in 1865, and then and every time before an obvious successor was appointed immediately (in 1865 former Prime Minister and incumbent Foreign Secretary Lord John Russell).
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Theresa May?
    That’d be funny.
    It would be - but (a) she has the experience (b) she's relatively sane and (c) no way could she stay on even if she wanted.
This discussion has been closed.