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Latest next Tory leader betting on the Smarkets exchange – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Case summary

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Hospitals

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  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    A very warm welcome to the site to Vlad!

    Lol.

    So very, very transparent.

    SeanT, Bryonic, Fitz, eadric, LadyG, Leon… and now Vlad.
    I always assumed he was a Russian bot. I never bought the whole cornish Europhobe thing.
    If he reaches twelve regenerations then he's clearly a Time Lord.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Deaths

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  • Penny Mordaunt? Many Poor Don't

    Why is she in the betting list, when none of the 'Spartans' are?

    Surely a Baker or a Harper have a better chance of making the final 2? There's at least 52% of Tory MPs, members and public who are simple enough to vote for them...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Completely OT, anyone got any insight on why Indonesia have decided to move their capital from Jakarta to Kalimantan - and whether it will annoy or delight Mastermind contestants :)

    Jakarta is by orders of magnitude the biggest city on by orders of magnitude the most populous island of the archipelago - so a large part of the idea is "levelling up" - Jakarta will continue to flourish much as New York does in the USA. The sinking affects the north of the city, nearest the sea.

    https://coconuts.co/jakarta/news/vast-indonesia-settles-on-nusantara-name-for-new-capital-city-which-means-archipelago/

    Whether it turns into a "Washington" or a "Brasilia", time will tell.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Age related data

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  • How many letters are in, I wonder ?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    The tory backbenchers have some wins to bank on covid freedoms and they may decide that they don't want the publicity of a leadership election getting in the way of those.

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him, many of whom are for the chop anyway.

    Seriously, the MPs may think that's enough for now.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    edited January 2022
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
  • Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    Graywash, you mean :)
  • Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    I was thinking same thing! I am not sure I'd want the job if I had to look at that paper every day, it's fecking revolting. I am sure Leon has seen more tasteful tart's boudoirs
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Is Hancock at 170 worth a [betting] nibble as a trading bet?

    no

    Lockdown breaking is far from flavour of the month, and no one wants to be reminded of Matt Hancock
    Tidied
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited January 2022

    Penny Mordaunt? Many Poor Don't

    Why is she in the betting list, when none of the 'Spartans' are?

    Surely a Baker or a Harper have a better chance of making the final 2? There's at least 52% of Tory MPs, members and public who are simple enough to vote for them...

    Past Brexit now - may be a mistake to think they will vote similarly. Mordaunt may appeal to some. Also Truss. Harper wasn't in the ERG by the way (he voted Remain).
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of @IshmaelZ self-discipline.
    Whereof we cannot speak...

    There's a case to be made all the Beatles were better outside the Beatles. I like George Harrison.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2022
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of @IshmaelZ self-discipline.
    McCartney wrote some superb songs - "You Never GIve Me Your Money", "Eleanor Rigby", and "Mother Nature's Boy", particularly.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    Chameleon said:

    @Leon looks unbanned to me on Vanilla. Not that he's posted since yesterday mind.

    Looks like he spent an afternoon sinbinned, which given the potential legal issues around the topic was very justified.

    Was it something he posted last night? There was a line at the end of one of his posts that look well-beyond dodgy to me.
  • @Leon looks unbanned to me on Vanilla. Not that he's posted since yesterday mind.

    GPT-3 needs a reboot?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    A BBC journalist just referred to 51% in an opinion poll as “a vast, vast majority”. Where do they find these people?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    How many letters are in, I wonder ?

    seven
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881

    A BBC journalist just referred to 51% in an opinion poll as “a vast, vast majority”. Where do they find these people?

    PB?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Pulpstar said:

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    If we overbuild our wind capacity, we'll have a higher baseline. More wind power potential is a good thing for the UK.
    As long as we can find an efficient way to store the surplus it is no problem whatsoever. Its all about batteries, really.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    I'd imagine he'd want to stay on just to try and improve his reputation a bit before leaving office. He's a shambles and a laughing stock at the moment, but maybe able 'Get Covid Done' and the odd 'legacy' thing he could agree with likely successors to sell as an achievement could take the edge off. Obviously his reputation will never properly recover but may be able to sell himself as a PM who dealt with big things in his premiership but was brought low by a silly mistake. Nonsense of course, he's a deeply unpleasant entitled clown who's made a career out of assuming rules didn't apply to him and it's who he is, but lots of people didn't mind when they thought the joke and the lies were aimed at someone else other than them.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    MISTY said:

    The tory backbenchers have some wins to bank on covid freedoms and they may decide that they don't want the publicity of a leadership election getting in the way of those.

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him, many of whom are for the chop anyway.

    Seriously, the MPs may think that's enough for now.

    Competition: We should have our best guess at the month a new permanent leader is in place.

    I'm going with April.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    COVID summary

    - Cases are continuing there healing fall. While this maybe partially as a result of the new testing regime, the other indicators suggest that this is at least mostly real. R is down to 0.6 which is a bit of a record low for this epidemic.
    - Admissions are down. R is below 1.
    - MV beds continue their decline
    - We are seeing signs that deaths are levelling off

    image
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,691

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    This is a really interesting issue from an Indyref2 perspective.

    25GW is roughly what the UK is burning in fossil fuels for electricity at the moment, so Scotland can become an energy powerhouse (again) once this is developed. Consider the switch to electric cars and away from boilers.

    England needs to match that kind of offshore wind development to fend off a new surge of energy-nationalism - "we don't need the Scots".

    The SNP are quite nuclear-averse, too, so having a few new reactors in pocket will be very important for countering that argument.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Good god, that's hideous. I've seen better in my local curry shop.
  • Carnyx said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    No problem - plenty of whitewash to hand. Slap it on, let it dry, second coat, all ready the next day.
    It'd need pebbledash to hide *that* wallpaper.

    image
    Wallpaper is hideous, but I like the picture
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    That's a good question. @ydoethur will tell us
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,691
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Been interesting watching Nicola Sturgeon today condemning Douglas Ross for the crime of initially supporting Boris as Leader. Before Ross become the very first Tory MP to call for his resignation.

    Apparently he should have known what Boris was about.

    This is the same Sturgeon who faithfully supported Alex Salmond for ten years as his deputy despite it being common knowledge what he was about. Only turning him on him years later, after he was safely out of power.

    Not sure if she's chosen her attack line very well.

    You mean, the fact that Alex Salmond is rap...errr...I...mean...ra...ther good at chess.
    In Scotland its more jigsaws you need to be very careful about. They can get you locked up.
    Leon won't be visiting Wick again any time soon. Shame.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Eabhal, PS5 is dramatically quieter than the PS4 (thankfully).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Thin markets, but Raab 20 on Betfair for next PM (decent value, IMO) vs 29 for next leader (which is way too short), so you are not alone.

    An outsider is possible, should MPs and Tory selectorate decide the entire cabinet is tainted*. But rather unlikely.

    *It is.
    Read the market rules, caretaker leaders might not pay out.
    PM is fortunately a gazateered position so there less ambiguity.
    BF rules seem to say that they will pay out based on the following official webpage:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/prime-minister

    Be interesting to see what happens if Raab as Deputy acts as a caretaker, should Johnson flounce with immediate effect. No doubt I am reading too much into things, but it is worth noting that the official page does not record that RAB Butler acted as a caretaker PM for Eden when he was ill or away overseas for weeks on end.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,691

    Mr. Eabhal, PS5 is dramatically quieter than the PS4 (thankfully).

    Great, I'll order one now....
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Stocky said:

    MISTY said:

    The tory backbenchers have some wins to bank on covid freedoms and they may decide that they don't want the publicity of a leadership election getting in the way of those.

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him, many of whom are for the chop anyway.

    Seriously, the MPs may think that's enough for now.

    Competition: We should have our best guess at the month a new permanent leader is in place.

    I'm going with April.
    Doesn't a tory leadership election a 10 weeks? Even if Johnson resigned tomorrow, April would be pretty tight.

    I would go with September.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    edited January 2022
    Stocky said:

    MISTY said:

    The tory backbenchers have some wins to bank on covid freedoms and they may decide that they don't want the publicity of a leadership election getting in the way of those.

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him, many of whom are for the chop anyway.

    Seriously, the MPs may think that's enough for now.

    Competition: We should have our best guess at the month a new permanent leader is in place.

    I'm going with April.
    Competition 2: if Boris departs reasonably quickly, how long after the 2024 election defeat before he is being touted as a proven election winner, languishing unfairly on the backbenches, having been an innocent victim of a remainer stitch-up, who is the only candidate to reconnect the Tory party with the voting public? I give it 4 months.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Council-backed energy firm Together Energy latest to go bust

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60038685
  • Been interesting watching Nicola Sturgeon today condemning Douglas Ross for the crime of initially supporting Boris as Leader. Before Ross become the very first Tory MP to call for his resignation.

    Apparently he should have known what Boris was about.

    This is the same Sturgeon who faithfully supported Alex Salmond for ten years as his deputy despite it being common knowledge what he was about. Only turning him on him years later, after he was safely out of power.

    Not sure if she's chosen her attack line very well.

    That’s a bit of a setback given that you usually praise her attack lines.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    Johnson's inevitable demise and the massive damage he has done to the Conservative Party is one of the least enjoyable "I told you so"s I have ever had.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,001
    Eabhal said:

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    This is a really interesting issue from an Indyref2 perspective.

    25GW is roughly what the UK is burning in fossil fuels for electricity at the moment, so Scotland can become an energy powerhouse (again) once this is developed. Consider the switch to electric cars and away from boilers.

    England needs to match that kind of offshore wind development to fend off a new surge of energy-nationalism - "we don't need the Scots".

    The SNP are quite nuclear-averse, too, so having a few new reactors in pocket will be very important for countering that argument.
    England (and Wales) needs a mixture, and to build as fast as humanly possible. Offshore wind in the Irish Sea and North Sea, more solar both commercial and residential after a lull in recent years - very useful in summer when the wind drops, tidal, and more investment in interconnectors. We should be aiming for surplus electricity. That's one of the best ways to wean the country off domestic gas.
  • Jonathan said:

    If Boris does go, his leaving drinks are going to be awkward.

    Excellent post!! Lol
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Pulpstar said:

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    If we overbuild our wind capacity, we'll have a higher baseline. More wind power potential is a good thing for the UK.
    A higher level of renewables increases the overall cost of providing decarbonised power.

    Going all-in on CCS would be a better option, but people like to see wind turbines as a visualisation of 'green'.
  • MJW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    stjohn said:

    That Boris interview was the end, wasn't it? I can't see him recovering from that. My favourite bit was "I take full responsibility, but nobody told me..."

    And there's bound to be more coming out.

    So it's going to be an early leadership contest, or conceivably coronation. The question now is: can Rishi be stopped, and who amongst Tory MPs would want to stop him? My view is that he does look pretty unstoppable. Hunt has no chance amongst the members, too sane and not ideological on Brexit (nor, probably, is Rishi, but he's managed to conceal that). Liz? I don't think so, quite apart from anything else she's trying too hard. All the other names look too inexperienced or inconsequential to get the gig at a time like this.

    Of course, Tory leadership contests can sometimes throw surprises, but my conclusion is Rishi vs Hunt. Rishi wins. (But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, Raab as a temporary PM is possible, indeed more likely now since it is looking increasingly difficult for Boris to stay on during a contest).

    Comments?

    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?
    I think it's possible for a Rishi coronation. Will depend on what feedback the nascent Truss campaign is getting from MPs and how quickly the Rishi campaign can obtain cabinet endorsements after Boris falls on his sword. Could all be done and dusted pretty quickly.
    My thinking is that Boris might remain in post for his successor to be decided, not as the usual matter of honour, but because he needs to find somewhere to live.
    His successor's going to need to find somewhere else to live while the decorators restore the flat.
    I'd imagine he'd want to stay on just to try and improve his reputation a bit before leaving office. He's a shambles and a laughing stock at the moment, but maybe able 'Get Covid Done' and the odd 'legacy' thing he could agree with likely successors to sell as an achievement could take the edge off. Obviously his reputation will never properly recover but may be able to sell himself as a PM who dealt with big things in his premiership but was brought low by a silly mistake. Nonsense of course, he's a deeply unpleasant entitled clown who's made a career out of assuming rules didn't apply to him and it's who he is, but lots of people didn't mind when they thought the joke and the lies were aimed at someone else other than them.
    Post of the day
  • The 5.00 clock news is appalling for Boris and he has PMQs tomorrow

    How about him making a statement at 12 noon to the house that he got things wrong, accepts his responsibility, and will formally resign from office as soon as his successor is appointed by his party

    If would be most unexpected but better than being dragged through vonc and months of angst with the inevitable still happening
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Two British aircraft taking very different flight paths to Ukraine and back. The weapon transporting C-17s are avoiding Germany whilst a surveillance aircraft, an RC-135, is passing through....

    The UK and Germany have effectively said "ahhh, but, Germany didn't deny overflight rights as the UK didn't even ask!". Fast forward to today and a British RC-135 surveillance flies through Germany, while a British C-17 transport aircraft avoids... one is carrying weapons.


    https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1483475601273020423?s=20
  • Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07
  • IshmaelZ said:


    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.

    Yes, that's certainly a big difference between this contest and the last two. It's all rather uncharted territory, TBH.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,691

    Been interesting watching Nicola Sturgeon today condemning Douglas Ross for the crime of initially supporting Boris as Leader. Before Ross become the very first Tory MP to call for his resignation.

    Apparently he should have known what Boris was about.

    This is the same Sturgeon who faithfully supported Alex Salmond for ten years as his deputy despite it being common knowledge what he was about. Only turning him on him years later, after he was safely out of power.

    Not sure if she's chosen her attack line very well.

    That’s a bit of a setback given that you usually praise her attack lines.
    It doesn't work because you'd have to basically accuse her of being an accessory to multiple sexual assaults.

    Which makes you sound ridiculous. Or banned from PB.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited January 2022
    The options are obviously a smooth handover to Rishi, and a more troubled period perhaps in which Sunak resigns but Johnson still seeks to stay in place. After the months of truly awful headlines, I can't believe that Tory MP's are going to want all the media coverage to be about "Tory Chaos" for another few weeks, or even months.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    If anyone thinks Johnson can survive this there are some good odds available.
  • The 5.00 clock news is appalling for Boris and he has PMQs tomorrow

    How about him making a statement at 12 noon to the house that he got things wrong, accepts his responsibility, and will formally resign from office as soon as his successor is appointed by his party

    If would be most unexpected but better than being dragged through vonc and months of angst with the inevitable still happening

    He doesn't have the dignity to do that. Or possibly permission from the current Mrs Johnson.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    Johnson's inevitable demise and the massive damage he has done to the Conservative Party is one of the least enjoyable "I told you so"s I have ever had.
    Man up, for God's sake.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Jonathan said:

    If Boris does go, his leaving drinks are going to be awkward.

    If you get an invite could and you get to speak to the big man could you ask if Robert Thompson's been sacked? I think he's been treated shabbily.
  • EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Good
  • EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Oh to be a fly on the wall (or nowadays, a Zoom hacker) at that one!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    That's a good question. @ydoethur will tell us
    The nearest one I can think of would be Portland, who resigned after Canning (FS) and Castlereagh (War Secretary) fought a duel. Or possibly Bute, who resigned after allegations he was having an affair with the dowager Queen - but that was invented.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881

    The options are obviously a smooth handover to Rishi, and a more troubled period perhaps in which Sunak resigns but Johnson still seeks to stay in place. After the months of truly awful headlines, I can't believe that Tory MP's are going to want all the media coverage to be about "Tory Chaos" for another few weeks, or even months.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXw2JEdOY30

    "a muscular* foot helps him hang on"

    * (c)Barty Roberts
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    Chris said:

    Oh FFS.

    The person charged with making sense of it all — and who has been given the power of judge and jury — is of course Gray. Politicians on both sides of the divide have raised her reputation to that of near mythical status.

    Yet when her report arrives it may disappoint. Her terms of reference are limited and do not require her to pass judgment or make a determination on who is and isn’t telling the truth. It does not even mandate her to search Downing Street emails or WhatsApp messages in her quest for evidence.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-has-dominic-cummings-delivered-the-fatal-blow-7xl0prj07

    Wasn't that pointed out some time ago by Cyclefree?
    Well @Cyclefree was more she isn't qualified to do the job but David Allen Green over the weekend also pointed out that her remit may not be enough to allow her to reach a conclusion because who wishes to criticise a boss who may remain in place
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,209
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
    I don't like that one either and I like Imagine even less. What I do like - even more now than originally - is Give Peace A Chance. And his other simple chanty one, All You Need Is Love, that I also like.
  • The 5.00 clock news is appalling for Boris and he has PMQs tomorrow

    How about him making a statement at 12 noon to the house that he got things wrong, accepts his responsibility, and will formally resign from office as soon as his successor is appointed by his party

    If would be most unexpected but better than being dragged through vonc and months of angst with the inevitable still happening

    He doesn't have the dignity to do that. Or possibly permission from the current Mrs Johnson.
    That is why I said unexpected but it would be a huge relief
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2022
    "Westminster bubble"

    What political or Government-related news stories most caught Britons' attention in the past week?

    The most commonly cited topic is the Downing Street parties, a response given by 66% of respondents.



    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1483491903920381954?s=20
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,001

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    Johnson's inevitable demise and the massive damage he has done to the Conservative Party is one of the least enjoyable "I told you so"s I have ever had.
    No, just watch in awe as the miraculous Tory skill for total reinvention every time they replace a leader strikes yet again. Such will be the relief that someone half presentable is now in high office (assuming it's Sunak) that I expect a decent honeymoon and poll leads within a couple of months. Starmer doesn't have the positive momentum yet, it's all been about negative momentum for Boris.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,691
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    I missed this yesterday. Nearly 25* GW of new offshore wind projects around Scotland. Good news.

    https://www.crownestatescotland.com/news/scotwind-offshore-wind-leasing-delivers-major-boost-to-scotlands-net-zero-aspirations

    * That's roughly the same as the current installed capacity for the whole UK.

    So that means 25GW of dispatchable generation with availability contracts to fire up when the wind doesn't blow.

    This is a really interesting issue from an Indyref2 perspective.

    25GW is roughly what the UK is burning in fossil fuels for electricity at the moment, so Scotland can become an energy powerhouse (again) once this is developed. Consider the switch to electric cars and away from boilers.

    England needs to match that kind of offshore wind development to fend off a new surge of energy-nationalism - "we don't need the Scots".

    The SNP are quite nuclear-averse, too, so having a few new reactors in pocket will be very important for countering that argument.
    England (and Wales) needs a mixture, and to build as fast as humanly possible. Offshore wind in the Irish Sea and North Sea, more solar both commercial and residential after a lull in recent years - very useful in summer when the wind drops, tidal, and more investment in interconnectors. We should be aiming for surplus electricity. That's one of the best ways to wean the country off domestic gas.
    Always surprised at how much we get from solar. Real success story given the relative lack of investment/interest in it.

    I read a really good article about "surplus energy" somewhere. Could be transformational if marginal cost approaches zero with so many of our day-to-day costs derived from it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Theresa May?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
    Its one of my favourite Christmas songs. Its always such a relief from the wall to wall pap you get on playlists at that time of year.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    I think we are in interesting times to be honest
  • kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:
    That track is just genius. Better than anything he did in the Beatles in my opinion (as is Jealous Guy).
    Yes he did some great stuff solo. With the Beatles too, of course, but on the whole I slightly prefer Macca's Beatles output. I once did a quick instinctive 'fav 20 Beatles songs', without thinking too much about it, then checked to see who'd written them, expecting to have like 12 Johns on there, him being the cool edgy one like me, 6 Pauls and 2 Georges, but No! - there were 2 Georges, sure enough, or maybe 3, but shock horror more Pauls than Johns in the rest.

    This post doubling as a test of Ishmael's self-discipline.
    I'm the opposite. I want to like Paul's stuff - he's been famous for 60-odd years, but at no time has come across as anything other than a nice bloke, whereas John Lennon came across as a right pain in the arse almost all of the time - but all my favourite Beatles stuff is by John. But in general my taste is to the shoutier and more discordant end of the spectrum rather than the melodious end - give me the Fall over the Las.

    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over. Even typing it makes me cringe. 'Xmas*', for a start. I remember hearing it at the age of 6 and blanching not only at the piousness and self-righteousness of it, but also at the line 'So this is Christmas ... Another year over and a new one just begun'. No it hasn't. That would be January.
    I was a pedantic child and I have got no better.

    *I don't mind 'Xmas' per se. But it has to be pronounced 'exmass'. If what you are saying is 'Christmas', write it in full. You lazy scouse bastard.
    I don't like that one either and I like Imagine even less. What I do like - even more now than originally - is Give Peace A Chance. And his other simple chanty one, All You Need Is Love, that I also like.
    A Day In The Life is a superb Lennon song - with McCartney interludes - as is Tomorrow Never Knows.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,691

    "Westminster bubble"

    What political or Government-related news stories most caught Britons' attention in the past week?

    The most commonly cited topic is the Downing Street parties, a response given by 66% of respondents.



    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1483491903920381954?s=20

    "Tory parties" - it's contagious, and they didn't lockdown quickly enough.

    Wait for the vaccine (Sunak) but the damage is done.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    MISTY said:

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him

    Isn't this how our democracy is supposed to work?

  • Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Theresa May?
    I suggested that days ago but my feedback is unlikely
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Theresa May?
    That’d be funny.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357

    Two British aircraft taking very different flight paths to Ukraine and back. The weapon transporting C-17s are avoiding Germany whilst a surveillance aircraft, an RC-135, is passing through....

    The UK and Germany have effectively said "ahhh, but, Germany didn't deny overflight rights as the UK didn't even ask!". Fast forward to today and a British RC-135 surveillance flies through Germany, while a British C-17 transport aircraft avoids... one is carrying weapons.


    https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1483475601273020423?s=20


    "They're sending a new flag up on the tall ship," the watcher said. "The flag is yellow . . . with a black and red circle in the center."
    "There's a subtle piece of business," Paul said. "The CHOAM Company flag."
    "It's the same as the flag at the other ships," the Fedaykin guard said.
    "I don't understand," Stilgar said.
    "A subtle piece of business indeed," Gurney said. "Had he sent up the Atreides banner, he'd have had to live by what that meant. Too many observers about. He could've signaled with the Harkonnen flag on his staff - a flat declaration that'd have been. But, no - he sends up the CHOAM rag. He's telling the people up there . . . " Gurney pointed toward space. " . . . where the profit is......
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,687

    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Oh to be a fly on the wall (or nowadays, a Zoom hacker) at that one!
    If I had any dealings with Cummings, I would record every word. For one thing, he's a lying, untrustworthy POS. For another, he'd be bound to be recording the conversation as well... ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Rab Butler was never considered PM, although he was in acting charge after Eden resigned until Macmillan was appointed. The previous time the question arose was in 1865, and then and every time before an obvious successor was appointed immediately (in 1865 former Prime Minister and incumbent Foreign Secretary Lord John Russell).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stjohn said:


    Richard, I agree. That interview was brutal. I thought Boris did quite well at the last PMQs dealing with party-gate but he looked broken in that Rigby interview. Hard to see him surviving now, in my view.

    I was persuaded by the case you made the other day for Raab as next Prime Minister and, although you state that this is "indeed more likely now", you sound less convinced. Is that because you are expecting a coronation for Rishi? Or are you now doubting whether Betfair would pay out on Raab as "interim" PM, prior to a leadership election?

    Well, my view was that Raab was a good bet at 40/1 or more. I'm sure that's still the case, but the odds have shortened a lot. I'm not worried about Betfair not paying out, their rules are (for once!) commendably clear. Assuming Boris goes soon, for the Raab bet to come good, we would need:

    1. There to be a contest, rather than a quick coronation;
    2. Boris to leave the office of PM whilst the contest takes place, rather than staying on as May did, and
    3. Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily.

    1 killing the bet is certainly possible, but would require unanimous agreement amongst the wannabe leaders. I can't see Liz Truss, for example, playing along, and members wouldn't be happy, so I don't think is very likely.

    2 (Boris staying on) is IMO the biggest risk to the bet winning

    3 is a risk, but Raab is by far the most likely, assuming he realises that he won't be next leader.

    Hard to put figures to these, but I think the 40/1 or more was generous overall.
    May had not lied to the Commons. I don't think caretaker/night watchman Boris is that big a threat.
    Has a PM ever had to resign in proper disgrace (as opposed to defeat or cataclysmic policy failure) before?
    "Raab to be the one to take on the job temporarily."

    On BF at least it seems you are relying on the official webpage of UK Government saying that Raab is PM. It may not. Who knows. It may list him as Caretaker in this scenario.

    Plus, based on discussions between Palace and politicians in previous episodes where a caretaker may have been needed - the Palace was very keen to have someone who was quite obviously and clearly going to stand down when the caretaker role was done and someone with zero interest in leadership.

    Does Raab fit that?

    Hague would be a better choice based on older precedent, but then again the deputy PM role is fairly new. If indeed it actually formally exists (I can't recall now??).

    We may be in for interesting times.

    Theresa May?
    That’d be funny.
    It would be - but (a) she has the experience (b) she's relatively sane and (c) no way could she stay on even if she wanted.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,513
    edited January 2022

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    To be honest is it right for them to gather as a faction? What should be so different about them as any other Conservative elected MP in 2019? It’s easy to appreciate them meeting secretly together is going to rankle the others.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Cookie said:


    John Lennon is, however, responsible for one of the most egregious pieces of pap ever to besmirch the pop charts: Happy Xmas War is Over.

    Two. Imagine.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    To be honest is it right for them to gather as a faction? What should be so different about them as any other Conservative elected MP in 2019? It’s easy to appreciate them meeting secretly together is going to rankle the others.
    Levelling up?
  • This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    Too many want to keep their jobs including the ridiculous JRM who misjudged the Paterson debacle, and Dorries whose performance at the dispatch box yesterday had me covering my eyes and ears
  • Bit more on this - group of about 20 of the 2019 intake have met a few times to talk about the overall situation, including, it's said how to defend PM if opposition parties force a vote of no confidence in the Commons

    Two of their number suggest there may be a flurry of them submitting letters to Graham Brady tomorrow afternoon - that could rapidly change the situation for No 10 - however, it could also, easily melt away

    The possible threat certainly ups the ante for PMQs tomorrow - a poor performance could convince more of them to act

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1483493359532584963
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Oh to be a fly on the wall (or nowadays, a Zoom hacker) at that one!
    If I had any dealings with Cummings, I would record every word. For one thing, he's a lying, untrustworthy POS. For another, he'd be bound to be recording the conversation as well... ;)
    Do you remember the Plebgate comedy? The senior police representatives came out of a meeting and straight up lied about what had been said. Then Andrew Mitchell played the recording. Then plod claimed that recording conversations was unfair.....
    So if you're ever interviewed by police can you use that as a reason for not talking? 'I'm being recorded, it isn't fair!'

    Not that I would ever talk to the police unless they let me record them on a device of my own (and I know they wouldn't).
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    This'll make them change their minds....being called f*cking nobodies.....

    The Red Wall plot to remove Boris Johnson - with Tory MPs meeting to discuss submitting letters - is not going down well in Cabinet

    'It's pretty sickening. They were only elected because of him. Most of them are a load of fucking nobodies. It's nuts'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483492272985542661?s=20

    To be honest is it right for them to gather as a faction? What should be so different about them as any other Conservative elected MP in 2019? It’s easy to appreciate them meeting secretly together is going to rankle the others.
    Gathering in factions *is* behaving like any other Conservative MP.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770

    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Oh to be a fly on the wall (or nowadays, a Zoom hacker) at that one!
    If I had any dealings with Cummings, I would record every word. For one thing, he's a lying, untrustworthy POS. For another, he'd be bound to be recording the conversation as well... ;)
    Do you remember the Plebgate comedy? The senior police representatives came out of a meeting and straight up lied about what had been said. Then Andrew Mitchell played the recording. Then plod claimed that recording conversations was unfair.....
    Front and centre now as to what when in or out of Downing St.

    A suitcase of liquids? Unchecked?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,513

    EXCL: Whitehall enforcer Sue Gray WILL interview Dominic Cummings over his explosive party claims.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1483488255953846272?s=20

    Good
    That is a big development. Moving quite quickly now.
  • Ruth Begby of Sky News is an interesting assassin, given her recent history
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Roger said:

    Jonathan said:

    If Boris does go, his leaving drinks are going to be awkward.

    If you get an invite could and you get to speak to the big man could you ask if Robert Thompson's been sacked? I think he's been treated shabbily.
    He's been given a new identity aiui.
    Oh! You didn't mean Jon Venable's partner in crime?


  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Applicant said:

    MISTY said:

    It also appears the MPs are now pulling Johnson's strings as opposed to advisors, spads and personal contacts around him

    Isn't this how our democracy is supposed to work?

    If it hasn't worked that way in recent times, its partly Labour's fault.

    It was Labour, not the Tory backbenchers, who gave Johnson more unchecked power than any PM, well, since Churchill, and they got zero representation in return. Its no wonder Johnson and his coterie felt invincible.

    Steve Baker has often voiced his frustration that attempts to corral the leadership of the party and provide opposition have gone nowhere because Labour simply weren't interested.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,091
    edited January 2022

    Bit more on this - group of about 20 of the 2019 intake have met a few times to talk about the overall situation, including, it's said how to defend PM if opposition parties force a vote of no confidence in the Commons

    Two of their number suggest there may be a flurry of them submitting letters to Graham Brady tomorrow afternoon - that could rapidly change the situation for No 10 - however, it could also, easily melt away

    The possible threat certainly ups the ante for PMQs tomorrow - a poor performance could convince more of them to act

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1483493359532584963

    This is getting like bloody lockdowns....we all know what has to happen, we all know it is going to happen...but all this delay and dithering and can kicking hoping something turns up, just makes it worse.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    *checks betting slips*

    Thank F*ck I backed Raab both for leader and next PM. At least a fighting chance it will come off. I see he is still around 20s (bf) though so no great move.
This discussion has been closed.