Note even if 145 Tory MPs lost their seats on last night's polls, 220 Tory MPs would still keep their seats even after this onslaught.
So no certainty over 50% of Tory MPs will vote to no confidence Boris yet before he has had a chance to recover and end the remaining Covid restrictions for example
Are you referring to a VONC if Starmer tabled one?
If so, why would a CP MP express no confidence against Johnson in a VONC (which would be public) rather than writing to Brady (which would be private)?
I think a VONC prior to Gray reporting would be a mistake; the awaited report gives Tories an easy free pass to unite, even those who want the clown to step down.
The counter-argument would be that if a significant number of Tories were prepared to stand up and speak against their leader Geoffrey Howe style, it might finish him off. That's a judgement call they can only make in Parliament.
I'd guess that the most probable outcome of Sue Grey's report will be highly critical but say nothing about consequences - "rules were broken on 4 occasions, as follows..." - that sort of thing. Johnson will look suitably apologetic and say it was very hectic in mid-pandemic, but no excuses, I take responsibility, in the unlikely event of future restrictions, I will keep this totally in mind.
Do we think that Tory MPs will then vote him out? I think it's actually less likely than now - people will see it as anti-climax since they're sort of expecting a "This is a resignation issue" finding which a civil servant will nor deliver.
It's in the national interest, and the Conservative partisan interest (not the same thing) for BoJo to go pronto.
But it's in nobody's personal interest to be the one that presses the red button.
That might change, or events might move from "too early" to "too late" with no sweet spot in between.
Gray's verdict is likely to be recommendation for further investigations under ministerial code
So not clear cut. Unless she decides nothing to see here at all, everything is fine. Which I doubt.
Reading her profile in the Graun she sounds like an encouragingly independent-minded person. Apparently she took a career break in the eighties to run a bar in Northern Ireland. For reasons that I don't fully understand this endeared me to her greatly.* * not sure if I've got the whole "endeared X to Y" construction the right way round here. You know what I mean, anyway.
Running a bar in NI could very... entertaining in the 80s. Depends where, though.....
Indeed. One example which was (literally) close to home when I was there.
Pointless anecdote: I thought I'd backed Rishi Sunak to be next Prime Minister but on checking, I'm actually on Liz Truss. Not sure how that happened but I am now persuaded we need another woman in Number 10 and another boost to my ailing bank balance.
Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives.
Boris useless twat as he is I expect Sue Grey's report to not make any conclusions with something like "it could be seen as...." as damning as it gets.
Masked Singer - no stand out performance yet.
Prince Andrew - haven't been following it.
Nicola Sturgeon - those calling for Boris to resign shouldn't be as casual to dismiss her transgression.
Succession - still trying to get into the latest season am struggling on
@Charles - tricky one. Slightly wants to run with the hare (it's all an anonymous chat room Chatham House rules, etc) and hunt with the hounds (this is who I am and my family did/does XYZ). But as with everyone apart from about three posters whose posts I routinely skip, he is an important part of PB so I'd rather he stayed.
"Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives."
IMV this is a bogus argument, as vaccinations for things like yellow fever have been required to get into some countries for generations. AIUI polio is another one for some countries.
Indeed.
One of the first legal interventions (that we have records of) by the state in health care was -
The practice of quarantine, as we know it, began during the 14th century in an effort to protect coastal cities from plague epidemics. Ships arriving in Venice from infected ports were required to sit at anchor for 40 days before landing. This practice, called quarantine, was derived from the Italian words quaranta giorni which mean 40 days.
Wonder if there were any tennis players on the ships at Venice.....
So 600 years ago and in a dozen-odd countries today negates my statement about "the extent to which the State has [now] intruded into our personal lives"?
Probably not, but it's interesting. There are also still countries that restrict entry for people with HIV, for example.
My point was that medical rules at borders are an old, old thing.
Not to mention detailed medical histories if you want to emigrate. Australia, for example....
The You Gov poll is very poor for the Tories; but it isn't that good for Labour either. With the Tories down on 28%, Labour should really be polling in the 40s rather than a modest 38%.
However, I understand the poll was taken before yesterday's shenanigans. I'd expect the weekend polls to knock a couple of the Tories and add a couple on to Labour - 40% to 26%? If I'm right, that would focus the thoughts of a few more Tory MPs.
It's interesting that Lib Dems and Greens together are on 20% in that poll. It does suggest Labour aren't completely there yet. It also shows just how large the anti-Tory coalition is.
It's possible a couple of % on the Lib Dem score is embarrassed Tories parking their vote there for now, but likely to return home come the next election. Good news for the yellows in the local elections if so, though.
This site needs at least one contributor from the bona fide upper class, for balance. (It could also do with more w/c contributors, mind you).
So it's a shame that Charles has departed.
Yes. Charles is far from typical of the class he purports to represent, though, which was rather my point. And I would bet my house at odds on that he is not by a long chalk the poshest person posting here (not making any claim for myself, there. I wasn't even at Eton ffs).
And there has been no breach of Chatham House rules. I have not named him on here, I have not identified him to anyone in real life as a PBer, I would not respond to a fellow PBer's request for his surname.
Pointless anecdote: I thought I'd backed Rishi Sunak to be next Prime Minister but on checking, I'm actually on Liz Truss. Not sure how that happened but I am now persuaded we need another woman in Number 10 and another boost to my ailing bank balance.
I still think Mark Harper is underpriced. He has managed his positioning over partygate very astutely, is an anti-lockdowner with support from the right wing, but not a swivel-eyed ERGer.
If I were betting significant amounts based on value (which I'm not) I would be on Harper and Javid.
I can't believe Johnson is going anywhere. This year or next.
1. Lack of an obvious successor. Tiny Dancer is a shifty little coward, Live Laugh Truss is not "one of us". There's that one with the big head and that one that always looks like he's about to burst into tears. After that it's slim pickings. 2. If they come at the king, they better not miss. They'll be stuck with him for at least another year and they know he's a vindictive shit with a nasty streak as broad as Therese Coffey's behind. 3. He doesn't think he's done anything wrong or is doing anything but a brilliant job. 4. NutNut loves being FLOTUK and as he is a master cocksman he has to placate her at all costs.
On Sunak: have you seen Don't Look Now? I don't see any evidence of cowardice. Going to Cornwall yesterday was a ballsy decision.
I think I'm being slow but Don't Look Now was one of my favourite English films of the time so I'd like to understand your post. Is it that he's a midget (are you allowed to use that word?) or that he stabs someone in the back?
Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives.
Boris useless twat as he is I expect Sue Grey's report to not make any conclusions with something like "it could be seen as...." as damning as it gets.
Masked Singer - no stand out performance yet.
Prince Andrew - haven't been following it.
Nicola Sturgeon - those calling for Boris to resign shouldn't be as casual to dismiss her transgression.
Succession - still trying to get into the latest season am struggling on
@Charles - tricky one. Slightly wants to run with the hare (it's all an anonymous chat room Chatham House rules, etc) and hunt with the hounds (this is who I am and my family did/does XYZ). But as with everyone apart from about three posters whose posts I routinely skip, he is an important part of PB so I'd rather he stayed.
Oh and it was blindingly obvious they would come for Eric Gill given the green light over Colston.
I am trying to work out a function, measuring data on social media, when they will come for Gandhi, in Tavistock Square.
I am interested in the blind spots - I have talked to my daughters about this and the younger generation have a completely different set of hate figures than you might imagine. No interest in Cromwell... Even though they get taught at school about his acts in Ireland etc. Too remote, it seems - it has as much interest as pulling down statues of Richard I for the Crusades....
It seems that a certain nearness in history is required.
Very interesting discussion at 08:57 on R4 Today about just this - one side saying Broadcasting House of all places (after Savile, etc) shouldn't be showcasing child abusers. The other side was it's art slippery slope.
Another issue with Gill is whether his proclivities are evident in his art - some people have professed to see unpleasant things there. Though it may well be people seeing what they think they see.
The You Gov poll is very poor for the Tories; but it isn't that good for Labour either. With the Tories down on 28%, Labour should really be polling in the 40s rather than a modest 38%.
However, I understand the poll was taken before yesterday's shenanigans. I'd expect the weekend polls to knock a couple of the Tories and add a couple on to Labour - 40% to 26%? If I'm right, that would focus the thoughts of a few more Tory MPs.
It's interesting that Lib Dems and Greens together are on 20% in that poll. It does suggest Labour aren't completely there yet. It also shows just how large the anti-Tory coalition is.
It's possible a couple of % on the Lib Dem score is embarrassed Tories parking their vote there for now, but likely to return home come the next election. Good news for the yellows in the local elections if so, though.
Hard to see how Labour breaks through 40% though. Nothing that SKS has done is really going to take back ex-voters bar those who didn't vote Labour because "he's not Corbyn".
Pure anecdote - went off for coffee this morning with a left of centre mate who will never vote Tory but who fits the North London Labour profile (Remain, professional, anti-Tory etc). Says he doesn't know what Keir or Labour stands for. I would imagine that type of voter is open to a well crafted LD / Green message (I suspect more the latter - LDs are a bit passe
The other issue facing HMG is the cost of living crisis and I listened to a report on BBC business yesterday about the worldwide energy price hikes
Apparently, it has many factors including last year wind generation was poor due to an exceptionally wind free summer, the loss of coal, including the recent flooding of some of China’s coal mines, and the haste to move to green energy which has provided a vacuum that gas is now filling and is the transition fuel.
The demand worldwide far outstrips the supply and above all else Russia is holding Europe and the west to ransom over its abundance of gas, which has made things very much worse
Merkel also stopped all nuclear power stations following Fukushima creating a German energy crisis
The analyst said the idea this is short term is not born out by the facts and expects high energy prices for the next two years at least
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
JRM is panicking and desperately scrambling to save Boris as he’s going to be suffering major WDS* if Sunak becomes next PM - JRM’s head will explode after turning around on its axis like the freaky ventriloquist dummy that he is.
*Wykehamist Derangement Syndrome - he seems to have a bit of an issue…!!
I can't believe Johnson is going anywhere. This year or next.
1. Lack of an obvious successor. Tiny Dancer is a shifty little coward, Live Laugh Truss is not "one of us". There's that one with the big head and that one that always looks like he's about to burst into tears. After that it's slim pickings. 2. If they come at the king, they better not miss. They'll be stuck with him for at least another year and they know he's a vindictive shit with a nasty streak as broad as Therese Coffey's behind. 3. He doesn't think he's done anything wrong or is doing anything but a brilliant job. 4. NutNut loves being FLOTUK and as he is a master cocksman he has to placate her at all costs.
On Sunak: have you seen Don't Look Now? I don't see any evidence of cowardice. Going to Cornwall yesterday was a ballsy decision.
I think I'm being slow but Don't Look Now was one of my favourite English films of the time so I'd like to understand your post. Is it that he's a midget (are you allowed to use that word?) or that he stabs someone in the back?
That midgets can be effective murderers. The reveal if that's the word where you see him for the first time rather than the child's raincoat he is wearing is the best bit of cinema ever.
The other issue facing HMG is the cost of living crisis and I listened to a report on BBC business yesterday about the worldwide energy price hikes
Apparently, it has many factors including last year wind generation was poor due to an exceptionally wind free summer, the loss of coal, including the recent flooding of some of China’s coal mines, and the haste to move to green energy which has provided a vacuum that gas is now filling and is the transition fuel.
The demand worldwide far outstrips the supply and above all else Russia is holding Europe and the west to ransom over its abundance of gas, which has made things very much worse
Merkel also stopped all nuclear power stations following Fukushima creating a German energy crisis
The analyst said the idea this is short term is not born out by the facts and expects high energy prices for the next two years at least
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
Yes. Another one of BJ's mistakes - I suspect Carrie had a bit to do with that one in pushing the Green agenda.
The You Gov poll is very poor for the Tories; but it isn't that good for Labour either. With the Tories down on 28%, Labour should really be polling in the 40s rather than a modest 38%.
However, I understand the poll was taken before yesterday's shenanigans. I'd expect the weekend polls to knock a couple of the Tories and add a couple on to Labour - 40% to 26%? If I'm right, that would focus the thoughts of a few more Tory MPs.
It's interesting that Lib Dems and Greens together are on 20% in that poll. It does suggest Labour aren't completely there yet. It also shows just how large the anti-Tory coalition is.
It's possible a couple of % on the Lib Dem score is embarrassed Tories parking their vote there for now, but likely to return home come the next election. Good news for the yellows in the local elections if so, though.
And aren't the the Sundays the traditional source of Tory MPs' "long dark afternoons of the soul"?
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
They don't consider it a Tory majority. But it is not "nothing to save".
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.
I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.
He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.
When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.
I disagree on Johnson, in that I think he should go for this. The rules were controversial and grated for those of us with a more liberal bent (particularly the daft rules on meeting outside) but can be stomached, just about, if those imposing them follow them to the letter, even if shown to be over the top in hindsight - honest mistakes made on limited information etc. But if the rule makers ignored them at the time then the rest of us feel like we were taken for fools. And we don't like that.
But I do agree that it's a bizarre self-made disaster when he should really be riding high right now as the leader who resisted panic/caution (delete according to personal viewpoint) over Omicron and appears to have been proven right on that. It was a big call and he got it right. That may have been more from being forced to by cabinet or through fear of the CRG sending in their letters or the embarassment of having to rely on Labour votes to pass anything else, but as leader he takes the credit just as he (should) take the blame when things go wrong.
I don't think calling for resignation and failing to get it makes Starmer look weak. He'd have looked a numpty if he'd not called on Johnson to resign. The failure of the Conservative party MPs to eject Johnson makes them look weak/spineless.
Johnson has a magic touch. Will it still be tainted 12, 18 months from a general election? That is what I imagine many Cons MPs are waiting to see.
He is a burst balloon. A busted flush. Beria in the final 10 minutes of Death of Stalin. There is no coming back from this. Sunak will be PM at the conference.
Note even if 145 Tory MPs lost their seats on last night's polls, 220 Tory MPs would still keep their seats even after this onslaught.
So no certainty over 50% of Tory MPs will vote to no confidence Boris yet before he has had a chance to recover and end the remaining Covid restrictions for example
Your problem is that Boris shows no understanding of the things which cause him problems, no interest in understanding them and no willingness to remedy them.
If "Boris" did not do these things perpetually he would still be a comedic political hack. It is his willingness to consistently break the rules without giving a shit that has driven his political career.
It depends on which rules.
People have been saying for years that Boris was sacked by the Spectator for lying.
But nobody outside the bubble cares about that.
When its rules imposed on the proles then the proles do care.
I obviously don't disagree that more people care now than they did before, self evident from the polling. My point was that no interest in remedying the things that cause Boris problems, is actually an integral design feature of the Boris character. A Boris who cares about doing the right thing, could not be the carefree popular different Boris.
This site needs at least one contributor from the bona fide upper class, for balance. (It could also do with more w/c contributors, mind you).
So it's a shame that Charles has departed.
Yes this site is swarming with the kind of people who buy their own furniture. Charles lent it a touch of genuine class.
Why has Charles left?
See Charles' own comment early in this thread.
On a related matter, I do not know if there is a simple administrative step that might discourage these running tiffs that spoil some threads and eventually drive good people away. Would a limit on posting frequency help, or just encourage sock puppets? Maybe even a five minute time-out would allow for reflection. And a ban on threats of doxxing.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
JRM is panicking and desperately scrambling to save Boris as he’s going to be suffering major WDS* if Sunak becomes next PM - JRM’s head will explode after turning around on its axis like the freaky ventriloquist dummy that he is.
*Wykehamist Derangement Syndrome - he seems to have a bit of an issue…!!
'My honourable friend makes a characteristically Wykehamist point: highly intelligent but fundamentally wrong. ' [...] And I must confess I've sometimes thought my right honourable friend for West Dorset [Oliver Letwin] was more a Wykehamist than of my own school'
The JRM treatment of Ross et al is a fairly logical thing given the Cons morphing towards english nationalistism over the last decade. Arguably the SNPs greatest achievement.
I’d argue with that. But I do get your point.
The English Tories should just be done with it and fess up to their newfound love for English self-government.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
I may be misremembering, but aren't most Scottish councils elected under STV and therefore NOC is pretty much baked in?
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
On that logic, the Conservative Party hasn'tr been in control of the UK for most of the 2010s.
Note even if 145 Tory MPs lost their seats on last night's polls, 220 Tory MPs would still keep their seats even after this onslaught.
So no certainty over 50% of Tory MPs will vote to no confidence Boris yet before he has had a chance to recover and end the remaining Covid restrictions for example
Your problem is that Boris shows no understanding of the things which cause him problems, no interest in understanding them and no willingness to remedy them.
If "Boris" did not do these things perpetually he would still be a comedic political hack. It is his willingness to consistently break the rules without giving a shit that has driven his political career.
It depends on which rules.
People have been saying for years that Boris was sacked by the Spectator for lying.
But nobody outside the bubble cares about that.
When its rules imposed on the proles then the proles do care.
There's also the fact that he created and imposed those rules on the proles before breaking them. That adds insult to injury.
There's a cliche that lawmakers can't be lawbreakers (I used that line myself) but it's not always true. If someone is opposed to the law they're breaking and the people are ok to elect them then that's okay in my eyes.
Eg if while homosexuality was illegal the public chose to elect an openly gay politician who wanted it legalised then that'd be fair enough.
It's the hypocrisy of passing a law on us, then breaking it, that is impossible to stomach.
I completely agree with this and I don't understand why any Conservative supporter would be comfortable with the precedent set by a Government imposing laws that it doesn't intend to obey. Legitimising a future left-wing PM e.g. imposing punitive rules for the rich whilst allowing the party elite to disregard them isn't a great place to go.
If the rules were justified, breaking them shows either that the lawmaker was too stupid to understand their purposes, or didn't care about the harm that could be caused by lawbreaking. If they weren't justified it's even less forgivable because the implication is that the lawmaker was happy imposing an unjustified law because they knew that they could ignore it while using the power of the state to force others to obey it.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
JRM is panicking and desperately scrambling to save Boris as he’s going to be suffering major WDS* if Sunak becomes next PM - JRM’s head will explode after turning around on its axis like the freaky ventriloquist dummy that he is.
*Wykehamist Derangement Syndrome - he seems to have a bit of an issue…!!
'My honourable friend makes a characteristically Wykehamist point: highly intelligent but fundamentally wrong. ' [...] And I must confess I've sometimes thought my right honourable friend for West Dorset [Oliver Letwin] was more a Wykehamist than of my own school'
It’s a toughy, you can be “wrong” like Boles and Letwin or “right” like JRM and Boris….!
Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.
I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.
He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.
When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.
I disagree on Johnson, in that I think he should go for this. The rules were controversial and grated for those of us with a more liberal bent (particularly the daft rules on meeting outside) but can be stomached, just about, if those imposing them follow them to the letter, even if shown to be over the top in hindsight - honest mistakes made on limited information etc. But if the rule makers ignored them at the time then the rest of us feel like we were taken for fools. And we don't like that.
But I do agree that it's a bizarre self-made disaster when he should really be riding high right now as the leader who resisted panic/caution (delete according to personal viewpoint) over Omicron and appears to have been proven right on that. It was a big call and he got it right. That may have been more from being forced to by cabinet or through fear of the CRG sending in their letters or the embarassment of having to rely on Labour votes to pass anything else, but as leader he takes the credit just as he (should) take the blame when things go wrong.
I don't think calling for resignation and failing to get it makes Starmer look weak. He'd have looked a numpty if he'd not called on Johnson to resign. The failure of the Conservative party MPs to eject Johnson makes them look weak/spineless.
Johnson has a magic touch. Will it still be tainted 12, 18 months from a general election? That is what I imagine many Cons MPs are waiting to see.
He is a burst balloon. A busted flush. Beria in the final 10 minutes of Death of Stalin. There is no coming back from this. Sunak will be PM at the conference.
Bet? To HSBS or Injured jockeys?
OK £25, evens, winner gets to choose from those 2
And that's sporting given I can get better odds without the date limit
Pointless anecdote: I thought I'd backed Rishi Sunak to be next Prime Minister but on checking, I'm actually on Liz Truss. Not sure how that happened but I am now persuaded we need another woman in Number 10 and another boost to my ailing bank balance.
I still think Mark Harper is underpriced. He has managed his positioning over partygate very astutely, is an anti-lockdowner with support from the right wing, but not a swivel-eyed ERGer.
If I were betting significant amounts based on value (which I'm not) I would be on Harper and Javid.
Harper if the Conservatives were in opposition but since they are in government, they are choosing a new Prime Minister who must hit the ground running. This probably restricts them to a handful of senior Cabinet ministers. Harper has never run a department, having gone from junior ministerial roles to Chief Whip.
The You Gov poll is very poor for the Tories; but it isn't that good for Labour either. With the Tories down on 28%, Labour should really be polling in the 40s rather than a modest 38%.
However, I understand the poll was taken before yesterday's shenanigans. I'd expect the weekend polls to knock a couple of the Tories and add a couple on to Labour - 40% to 26%? If I'm right, that would focus the thoughts of a few more Tory MPs.
It's interesting that Lib Dems and Greens together are on 20% in that poll. It does suggest Labour aren't completely there yet. It also shows just how large the anti-Tory coalition is.
It's possible a couple of % on the Lib Dem score is embarrassed Tories parking their vote there for now, but likely to return home come the next election. Good news for the yellows in the local elections if so, though.
There's some of that, but it's also an effect of the reduced pool of people giving a voting intention.
The other issue facing HMG is the cost of living crisis and I listened to a report on BBC business yesterday about the worldwide energy price hikes
Apparently, it has many factors including last year wind generation was poor due to an exceptionally wind free summer, the loss of coal, including the recent flooding of some of China’s coal mines, and the haste to move to green energy which has provided a vacuum that gas is now filling and is the transition fuel.
The demand worldwide far outstrips the supply and above all else Russia is holding Europe and the west to ransom over its abundance of gas, which has made things very much worse
Merkel also stopped all nuclear power stations following Fukushima creating a German energy crisis
The analyst said the idea this is short term is not born out by the facts and expects high energy prices for the next two years at least
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
Yes. Another one of BJ's mistakes - I suspect Carrie had a bit to do with that one in pushing the Green agenda.
BJ has been a full signed up member of the Green grouping in the Conservative Party for a long. long time.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
I may be misremembering, but aren't most Scottish councils elected under STV and therefore NOC is pretty much baked in?
It is, but there is a further complication in that, to get more seats, especially in the more rural areas, quite a few Tories pretend to be "Independent" candidates. There's a regular interchange of people between the Official and Unofficial SCUP. We saw this a few weeks back when trying to make sense of the Lochaber (?) by election, and in fact Mr Kille's predecessor is a nice example
"Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab - but feared debate could hurt ‘international harmony’
"Emails to Dr Anthony Fauci show ‘likely’ explanation identified at start of coronavirus pandemic, but there were worries about saying so"
"Leading British and US scientists thought it was likely that Covid accidentally leaked from a laboratory but were concerned that further debate would harm science in China, emails show.
"An email from Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, on February 2 2020 said that “a likely explanation” was that Covid had rapidly evolved from a Sars-like virus inside human tissue in a low-security lab.
"The email, to Dr Anthony Fauci and Dr Francis Collins of the US National Institutes of Health, went on to say that such evolution may have “accidentally created a virus primed for rapid transmission between humans”.
It probably came from the lab, as I have been telling you for 18 months. This was also the opinion of many leading scientists right from the start, as I have been telling you for 18 months. it was probably engineered in the lab to be more transmissible, as I have been telling you for 18 months. But for various reasons there was a high level conspiracy to cover this up and crush an extremely plausible hypothesis: lab leak. As I have been telling you for 18 months.
So they found one senior scientist who thought it was 50/50 and another 60/40. Not exactly conclusive? Unknowable this one.
That's Jeremy Farrar, the leader of the Wellcome Trust, who thought it was 70/30 lab leak, and said so
Also this, from the earliest emails:
"In the emails, Sir Jeremy said that other scientists also believed the virus could not have evolved naturally. One such scientist was Professor Mike Farzan, of Scripps Research, the expert who discovered how the original Sars virus binds to human cells.
Scientists were particularly concerned by a part of Covid-19 called the furin cleavage site, a section of the spike protein which helps it enter cells and makes it so infectious to humans.
Summarising Professor Farzan’s concerns in an email, Sir Jeremy said: “He is bothered by the furin site and has a hard time (to) explain that as an event outside the lab, though there are possible ways in nature but highly unlikely."
And these guys
"The emails also show that Bob Garry, of the University of Texas, was unconvinced that Covid-19 emerged naturally.
“I just can’t figure out how this gets accomplished in nature,” he said.
"Professor Andrew Rambaut, from the University of Edinburgh, also said that furin cleavage site “strikes me as unusual”. "
And there are dozens more if you look at what is being revealed, right now, in the USA, it is all spilling out
But of course you know better, but also you know that all this is "unknowable" so let's not bother trying to know. But you still somehow know. Is that right?
Farrar changed his mind from 70/30 to 50/50 so over time thought it less likely. If you ask him today he might give a different percentage again. In five years time yet another percentage. I doubt even he will get to 100/0 so yes for the likes of you and I it is unknowable. Perhaps a few people in the CCP or the Wuhan lab do really know.
He didn't just change his mind, he did this in a matter of days:
On February 1 2020 he wrote that he thought lab leak was likely by 70/30 to 60/40. ie Probable. Not just possible, PROBABLE. And he wrote that many important virologists agreed with him, and also thought it highly likely the virus had been engineered
Then just 18 days later the same Jeremy Farrar co-signed this letter in The Lancet:
"We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin. Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife as have so many other emerging pathogens This is further supported by a letter from the presidents of the US National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine and by the scientific communities they represent. Conspiracy theories do nothing but create fear, rumours, and prejudice that jeopardise our global collaboration in the fight against this virus."
Wow. So in 18 days Jeremy Farrar of the Wellcome Trust went from thinking lab leak was the probable origin of the virus to thinking it was "overwhelmingly likely" the virus actually came from nature and that anyone who did suggest it came from the lab like, say, er, himself just two weeks before, was indulging in dangerous "conspiracy theories"
To make this total about-turn Jeremy Farrar must have seen some incredible evidence of natural origin, absolutely convincing copper-bottomed smoking-gun shit, right? And yet he has never shared it with anyone else. Which is a shame, as it would be nice to know where the virus came from. Ah well
And remember, the Lancet letter was organised by Peter Daszak, the co-head of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who led the gain of function research, and yet Daszak does not reveal this link in any place in the letter, and actually declares "no conflict of interest" - a statement the Lancet had to retract, painfully, a year later
It was a massive cover-up, now completely blown open. And yes, it really matters if science is this deeply corrupted
I think it's only fair that posters on this site actually recognise the basic truth of what @Leon is saying and stop just having a Pavolvian reaction when they see his posts.
His point is a fundamentally correct one namely that, regardless of what you believe about the lab leak theory, if the Telegraph is right, you had one of the country's leading scientists go in less than 3 weeks from thinking it was probable it came from a lab to dismissing such views as conspiracy theory without any explanation - now or then - as to what prompted such a radical change of view. Nor the role of Daszak and his behaviour, which can only be described, generously, as "interesting."
These are the people that we are told to trust. I think any of us, if they were faced with someone at work (or even a Prime Minister) who repeated this pattern of behaviour, would be asking questions about their veracity and what went on.
Post-this crisis, there has to be an inquiry but not one conducted by the scientific community as there is a fair chance it will be a whitewash. And quite frankly, it will be the best for science.
Well said
You can see the crucial importance of this, in what is happening right now, today, on Twitter. Whether it came from the lab or not (it did, surely, but whatever) there is now incontrovertible evidence that scientists conspired with bureaucrats to crush the very idea that it came from the lab, even if they personally thought that explanation was likely. For a year the concept of "lab leak" was literally banned by Facebook, Youtube etc
So now every nutter on social media is saying Look, they lied about lab leak - which they did - how can we trust them on vaccines, or therapies, or anything else? The awful, stupid conspiracy has undermined science at the worst possible time.
And it is a fair question, hard to answer. How CAN we trust them on vaccines if they lied about Covid origins so profusely and shamelessly?
I do trust them, because vaccines seem to work. But anyone with doubts now has many more doubts
The thing which most disturbed me was the Great Barrington Declaration. Not the thing itself, but Google and Facebook's response to it. If you Googled Great Barrington Declaration, you just got a site saying why it was wrong. What used to be considered neutral players in information were doing their best to suppress things they found inconvenient. It's understandable when the CCP are doing it. We know they're an autocracy. But when Google and Facebook are doing it it's almost more sinister. It's considerably more puzzling.
I didn't know that. I'm pretty shocked if that's the case (and I have no reason to disbelieve you). Are you saying that a Google search for example didn't bring a link to the statement, rather than just having some kind of text warning that the statement was disputed etc?
Definitely not the case now. I do seem to recall finding it rather easily at the time, too.
I've just Googled 'Great Barrington Declaration' and you're right, it gives you a link to where you would expect.
But at the time, if you googled it, you got a link to a site explaining why it was wrong/discredited etc.
If you wanted to find the site itself, you had to find another search engine (duckduckgo, for example). Google refused to link to it. I'm not sure how long that lasted for.
Looking into this more (not because I disbelieve you, but trying to get some information on how long/why):
So, interesting overall. It seems that GBD was not the top link for a while, but perhaps more algorithmic than intentional from Google? I can imagine some high rank sites linking to GBD critical statements but not GBD, which might have skewed the results? Who knows, lots of links to GBD from sites Google ranks as spammy/misinformed might also have affected its rank?
I'm more bothered about Google than other sources here as Google should be an impartial (or at least, not intentionally biased) way to find information. Facebook I never saw as an impartial provider of information, but I don't have any experience of Facebook over the past ten years or so, so that may be out of date.
My conclusion is that: 1. GBD was not the top hit, for a while, for searching GBD - which is, on the face of it, troubling 2. This may have been due to the way ranking algorithms work - or fail to work - rather than intentional policy
Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives.
Boris useless twat as he is I expect Sue Grey's report to not make any conclusions with something like "it could be seen as...." as damning as it gets.
Masked Singer - no stand out performance yet.
Prince Andrew - haven't been following it.
Nicola Sturgeon - those calling for Boris to resign shouldn't be as casual to dismiss her transgression.
Succession - still trying to get into the latest season am struggling on
@Charles - tricky one. Slightly wants to run with the hare (it's all an anonymous chat room Chatham House rules, etc) and hunt with the hounds (this is who I am and my family did/does XYZ). But as with everyone apart from about three posters whose posts I routinely skip, he is an important part of PB so I'd rather he stayed.
"Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives."
IMV this is a bogus argument, as vaccinations for things like yellow fever have been required to get into some countries for generations. AIUI polio is another one for some countries.
Read what I wrote - the application of this to the entire world is an expansion from the eg yellow fever vaccine requirement in a handful of countries.
Every country has the right to specify entry requirements - within international treaties. It's particularly funny in Australia's case, because they're possibly stricter about *what* you bring in than *who* comes in - including common foodstuffs and, (as Amber Heard discovered) animals - and I don't mean Johnny Depp.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
Carrie. First Lady of the UK. Of course, if that were an actual job, hers would be a legitimate presence at Downing Street work events, as well as boosting the Johnson family bank balance.
The other issue facing HMG is the cost of living crisis and I listened to a report on BBC business yesterday about the worldwide energy price hikes
Apparently, it has many factors including last year wind generation was poor due to an exceptionally wind free summer, the loss of coal, including the recent flooding of some of China’s coal mines, and the haste to move to green energy which has provided a vacuum that gas is now filling and is the transition fuel.
The demand worldwide far outstrips the supply and above all else Russia is holding Europe and the west to ransom over its abundance of gas, which has made things very much worse
Merkel also stopped all nuclear power stations following Fukushima creating a German energy crisis
The analyst said the idea this is short term is not born out by the facts and expects high energy prices for the next two years at least
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
Yes. Another one of BJ's mistakes - I suspect Carrie had a bit to do with that one in pushing the Green agenda.
I don't get this criticism. The price of fossil fuel based energy has shot up, so therefore the Green agenda is bad? How do you figure that one out?
If we needed more coal and more gas then our energy would be more expensive now, not less.
Sustainable, clean, cheap green energy means that we don't need to pay an arm and a leg to the Putins and Sheiks of the world.
If anything, the lack of investment in tidal is looking rather foolhardy, not the push for Green energy and fuel efficiency.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
I may be misremembering, but aren't most Scottish councils elected under STV and therefore NOC is pretty much baked in?
Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives.
Boris useless twat as he is I expect Sue Grey's report to not make any conclusions with something like "it could be seen as...." as damning as it gets.
Masked Singer - no stand out performance yet.
Prince Andrew - haven't been following it.
Nicola Sturgeon - those calling for Boris to resign shouldn't be as casual to dismiss her transgression.
Succession - still trying to get into the latest season am struggling on
@Charles - tricky one. Slightly wants to run with the hare (it's all an anonymous chat room Chatham House rules, etc) and hunt with the hounds (this is who I am and my family did/does XYZ). But as with everyone apart from about three posters whose posts I routinely skip, he is an important part of PB so I'd rather he stayed.
"Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives."
IMV this is a bogus argument, as vaccinations for things like yellow fever have been required to get into some countries for generations. AIUI polio is another one for some countries.
Indeed.
One of the first legal interventions (that we have records of) by the state in health care was -
The practice of quarantine, as we know it, began during the 14th century in an effort to protect coastal cities from plague epidemics. Ships arriving in Venice from infected ports were required to sit at anchor for 40 days before landing. This practice, called quarantine, was derived from the Italian words quaranta giorni which mean 40 days.
Wonder if there were any tennis players on the ships at Venice.....
Must have lost a lot balls playing tennis in Venice.
Now I am thinking of Brian Blessed pronouncing these words, as only he could
EXETER - Tennis balls, my liege.
Have you ever heard Brian Blessed commentating on snooker?
The You Gov poll is very poor for the Tories; but it isn't that good for Labour either. With the Tories down on 28%, Labour should really be polling in the 40s rather than a modest 38%.
However, I understand the poll was taken before yesterday's shenanigans. I'd expect the weekend polls to knock a couple of the Tories and add a couple on to Labour - 40% to 26%? If I'm right, that would focus the thoughts of a few more Tory MPs.
As a rule of thumb I add half the GRN share to LAB because that is what has happened at recent elections.
Yes, same here. But I think my comment still stands.
It does, although as observed above, that Labour is still on the floor in Scotland is a drag on the UK average. When entering polls into Baxter and the rest it would be more sensible to do so separately by country.
Also, for the Tories' prospects to be the worst, the LibDems need to recover in the south, as the preferred destination for discontented Tories in such seats - and the poll hints that some of that may be happening.
As people who were around last night may have seen, I had a small spat with someone.
While I’ve never made a particular secret of my identity this individual chose to highlight the fact that he knew some of my family in the real world.
That really doesn’t sit well with me and, frankly, doesn’t fit with the culture of this place which - to my mind - has always operated on “Chatham house rules”.
So it’s time for me to say goodbye.
Have fun and play nice. I shall miss the wit and insight.
The most that the current farrago will do is cement Labour’s poll lead for at least the time being. Johnson isn’t going anywhere. Much as I would like it to be otherwise the modern Conservative Party doesn’t defenestrate male prime ministers.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
You’re going to incur the wrath of Ruth. Better put your helmet on.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
They don't consider it a Tory majority. But it is not "nothing to save".
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
I live in hope of him getting to the Mohorovičić discontinuity. It would be a great scientific achievement.
This site needs at least one contributor from the bona fide upper class, for balance. (It could also do with more w/c contributors, mind you).
So it's a shame that Charles has departed.
Yes this site is swarming with the kind of people who buy their own furniture. Charles lent it a touch of genuine class.
Why has Charles left?
Because I told him to stop banging on about Who He Is.
Wasn't that rather his raison d'être?
Charles' identity is probably well known on here - though he rarely refers to it. I think it's more that he didn't want people he knew identified. Which is fair enough.
I'm anonymous on here, though it'd be trivial for someone to work out who I am if they were sad enough to do so (I am no-one of any importance). If someone identified Mrs J I'd be a bit concerned and furious.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
Doesn't matter for HYUFD. He just says no. Edit: which is at least logical in his own terms. If not very sensible in real politics.
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
This is precisely the wrong conclusion.
Consider the alternative scenarios. Suppose we had moved to renewables more slowly and were burning more coal and gas now. Would that be better? Coal prices are also up now, we would be having even higher prices for gas and electricity.
However, if we'd moved to renewables more quickly, we'd need to be burning less gas and so our electricity prices would be lower.
As people who were around last night may have seen, I had a small spat with someone.
While I’ve never made a particular secret of my identity this individual chose to highlight the fact that he knew some of my family in the real world.
That really doesn’t sit well with me and, frankly, doesn’t fit with the culture of this place which - to my mind - has always operated on “Chatham house rules”.
So it’s time for me to say goodbye.
Have fun and play nice. I shall miss the wit and insight.
I hope you reconsider, you would be much missed.
He probably needs another 3-4 people asking him to stay before the reverse flounce is on.
I like Charles. He reminds me of a notorious name-dropper I knew in the 1980s. He’s like an historical artefact.
He’ll probably do what Sean, Philip and hundreds of others have done and pop up with a new username. He’ll be super easy to spot as, like many great writers, he has a very distinctive voice.
Charles barely name drops.
If you want name dropping, you want Woger in his heyday.
Roger is another great writer with a very distinctive voice. He’d be easy to spot if he ever changes username. (Not sure if Roger is his real name.)
I don’t know about that, it took me ages to realise Roger was also posting as MoonRabbit!!
Note even if 145 Tory MPs lost their seats on last night's polls, 220 Tory MPs would still keep their seats even after this onslaught.
So no certainty over 50% of Tory MPs will vote to no confidence Boris yet before he has had a chance to recover and end the remaining Covid restrictions for example
Your problem is that Boris shows no understanding of the things which cause him problems, no interest in understanding them and no willingness to remedy them.
If "Boris" did not do these things perpetually he would still be a comedic political hack. It is his willingness to consistently break the rules without giving a shit that has driven his political career.
It depends on which rules.
People have been saying for years that Boris was sacked by the Spectator for lying.
But nobody outside the bubble cares about that.
When its rules imposed on the proles then the proles do care.
There's also the fact that he created and imposed those rules on the proles before breaking them. That adds insult to injury.
There's a cliche that lawmakers can't be lawbreakers (I used that line myself) but it's not always true. If someone is opposed to the law they're breaking and the people are ok to elect them then that's okay in my eyes.
Eg if while homosexuality was illegal the public chose to elect an openly gay politician who wanted it legalised then that'd be fair enough.
It's the hypocrisy of passing a law on us, then breaking it, that is impossible to stomach.
I used the line yesterday that those who make the laws should not break the laws. I think, agreeing with what you have just written, I would clarify that. If you have voted against a law and feel it to be so fundamentally pernicious and wrong that you cannot support it then I think, as in your homosexuality case, then you can justify breaking it. But in the Johnson case no such justification can exist. He not only voted for these laws, he formulated and promoted them. In such a situation to then break them makes his position utterly untenable.
Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives.
Boris useless twat as he is I expect Sue Grey's report to not make any conclusions with something like "it could be seen as...." as damning as it gets.
Masked Singer - no stand out performance yet.
Prince Andrew - haven't been following it.
Nicola Sturgeon - those calling for Boris to resign shouldn't be as casual to dismiss her transgression.
Succession - still trying to get into the latest season am struggling on
@Charles - tricky one. Slightly wants to run with the hare (it's all an anonymous chat room Chatham House rules, etc) and hunt with the hounds (this is who I am and my family did/does XYZ). But as with everyone apart from about three posters whose posts I routinely skip, he is an important part of PB so I'd rather he stayed.
"Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives."
IMV this is a bogus argument, as vaccinations for things like yellow fever have been required to get into some countries for generations. AIUI polio is another one for some countries.
Indeed.
One of the first legal interventions (that we have records of) by the state in health care was -
The practice of quarantine, as we know it, began during the 14th century in an effort to protect coastal cities from plague epidemics. Ships arriving in Venice from infected ports were required to sit at anchor for 40 days before landing. This practice, called quarantine, was derived from the Italian words quaranta giorni which mean 40 days.
Wonder if there were any tennis players on the ships at Venice.....
So 600 years ago and in a dozen-odd countries today negates my statement about "the extent to which the State has [now] intruded into our personal lives"?
Probably not, but it's interesting. There are also still countries that restrict entry for people with HIV, for example.
Indeed. I have to do an HIV test every couple of years for my visa, as do foreigners in a number of Asian countries. Even though there are now widely available treatments, many places don’t want people with infectious diseases living in their country.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
It used to be an existential matter for Conservatives. Pretty obvious that for a significant minority (?) of Tories that that is no longer the case. For most it seems to be No Biggie.
Pointless anecdote: I thought I'd backed Rishi Sunak to be next Prime Minister but on checking, I'm actually on Liz Truss. Not sure how that happened but I am now persuaded we need another woman in Number 10 and another boost to my ailing bank balance.
I still think Mark Harper is underpriced. He has managed his positioning over partygate very astutely, is an anti-lockdowner with support from the right wing, but not a swivel-eyed ERGer.
If I were betting significant amounts based on value (which I'm not) I would be on Harper and Javid.
Harper if the Conservatives were in opposition but since they are in government, they are choosing a new Prime Minister who must hit the ground running. This probably restricts them to a handful of senior Cabinet ministers. Harper has never run a department, having gone from junior ministerial roles to Chief Whip.
In normal times maybe, but I think they have been drifting away from that, like our friends across the Atlantic. Boris had only been FS for a few months but that was never going to stand in the way. The trouble with those in ministerial posts now is that they are tarred by their loyalty to Johnson. None have been sufficiently disloyal. The one who gets closest is Sajid Javid because he previously walked out in a spat with Cummings and is only recently back.
There are few ex cabinet ministers available with sufficient support either, barring Hunt.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
No he isn't, Boris will continue to refuse indyref2 for a generation which is the best way of protecting the Union.
It is Starmer who would allow indyref2 if he became PM reliant on the SNP, which could go either way even with his devomax plans which is more risky for the Union
This site needs at least one contributor from the bona fide upper class, for balance. (It could also do with more w/c contributors, mind you).
So it's a shame that Charles has departed.
Yes this site is swarming with the kind of people who buy their own furniture. Charles lent it a touch of genuine class.
Why has Charles left?
Charles is always happy to mention his family and friends (especially if they are or were CEOs of multinational pharma companies). He took exception to someone taking such PB "banter" (which he sees as subject to Chatham House rules) and bringing it into the real world.
I had an incident with him some time ago. He happily uses his own identity on here and talks about his work. I mentioned his employer and he asked me not to. Edit: I was happy to comply as it was only good manners to do so.
As I said it's a bit run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. His view is that he brings that information to PB but we must treat it confidentially on PB or outside. So he could say, for example, my family's trust is having an exhibition of Byzantine Phallic Imagery but would not want anyone from PB to say on PB well isn't that Bob's exhibition, I know him well can't wait to speak to him; or to go to the exhibition and say, oh yes Charles told me about this on PB.
Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.
I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.
He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.
When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.
I disagree on Johnson, in that I think he should go for this. The rules were controversial and grated for those of us with a more liberal bent (particularly the daft rules on meeting outside) but can be stomached, just about, if those imposing them follow them to the letter, even if shown to be over the top in hindsight - honest mistakes made on limited information etc. But if the rule makers ignored them at the time then the rest of us feel like we were taken for fools. And we don't like that.
But I do agree that it's a bizarre self-made disaster when he should really be riding high right now as the leader who resisted panic/caution (delete according to personal viewpoint) over Omicron and appears to have been proven right on that. It was a big call and he got it right. That may have been more from being forced to by cabinet or through fear of the CRG sending in their letters or the embarassment of having to rely on Labour votes to pass anything else, but as leader he takes the credit just as he (should) take the blame when things go wrong.
I don't think calling for resignation and failing to get it makes Starmer look weak. He'd have looked a numpty if he'd not called on Johnson to resign. The failure of the Conservative party MPs to eject Johnson makes them look weak/spineless.
Johnson has a magic touch. Will it still be tainted 12, 18 months from a general election? That is what I imagine many Cons MPs are waiting to see.
He is a burst balloon. A busted flush. Beria in the final 10 minutes of Death of Stalin. There is no coming back from this. Sunak will be PM at the conference.
Bet? To HSBS or Injured jockeys?
OK £25, evens, winner gets to choose from those 2
And that's sporting given I can get better odds without the date limit
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
No he isn't, Boris will continue to refuse indyref2 for a generation which is the best way of protecting the Union.
It is Starmer who would allow indyref2 if he became PM reliant on the SNP, which could go either way even with his devomax plans which is more risky for the Union
So Mr [edit] R-M - and [edit] Mr Gove as well - can be complete bastards to the SCUP MPs and MSPs and they have to suck it up like good little minions?
This site needs at least one contributor from the bona fide upper class, for balance. (It could also do with more w/c contributors, mind you).
So it's a shame that Charles has departed.
Yes this site is swarming with the kind of people who buy their own furniture. Charles lent it a touch of genuine class.
Why has Charles left?
Because I told him to stop banging on about Who He Is.
Wasn't that rather his raison d'être?
Charles' identity is probably well known on here - though he rarely refers to it. I think it's more that he didn't want people he knew identified. Which is fair enough.
I'm anonymous on here, though it'd be trivial for someone to work out who I am if they were sad enough to do so (I am no-one of any importance). If someone identified Mrs J I'd be a bit concerned and furious.
There are very very few people whose identity is actually identifiable on here and for good reasons. I think that occasional posters - Charles being one of them - lets slip enough information to work out who they are but most don't.
The problem with the tinterweb is its easy to get het up and start slinging mud at the other anonymous posters - been there, done that, withdrawn and apologised. The danger with being an actual identifiable person is that its possible to slip over the legal boundary or as has been seen on things like Twitter slipping over the physical boundary for nutters.
When both Mrs RP and myself were councillors one of the hard things was being known with a published address. Having to call the police because you're being threatened outside your own home by a nutter is Not Fun.
Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives.
Boris useless twat as he is I expect Sue Grey's report to not make any conclusions with something like "it could be seen as...." as damning as it gets.
Masked Singer - no stand out performance yet.
Prince Andrew - haven't been following it.
Nicola Sturgeon - those calling for Boris to resign shouldn't be as casual to dismiss her transgression.
Succession - still trying to get into the latest season am struggling on
@Charles - tricky one. Slightly wants to run with the hare (it's all an anonymous chat room Chatham House rules, etc) and hunt with the hounds (this is who I am and my family did/does XYZ). But as with everyone apart from about three posters whose posts I routinely skip, he is an important part of PB so I'd rather he stayed.
"Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives."
IMV this is a bogus argument, as vaccinations for things like yellow fever have been required to get into some countries for generations. AIUI polio is another one for some countries.
Indeed.
One of the first legal interventions (that we have records of) by the state in health care was -
The practice of quarantine, as we know it, began during the 14th century in an effort to protect coastal cities from plague epidemics. Ships arriving in Venice from infected ports were required to sit at anchor for 40 days before landing. This practice, called quarantine, was derived from the Italian words quaranta giorni which mean 40 days.
Wonder if there were any tennis players on the ships at Venice.....
Must have lost a lot balls playing tennis in Venice.
Now I am thinking of Brian Blessed pronouncing these words, as only he could
EXETER - Tennis balls, my liege.
Have you ever heard Brian Blessed commentating on snooker?
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
No he isn't, Boris will continue to refuse indyref2 for a generation which is the best way of protecting the Union.
It is Starmer who would allow indyref2 if he became PM reliant on the SNP, which could go either way even with his devomax plans which is more risky for the Union
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
You’re going to incur the wrath of Ruth. Better put your helmet on.
Ruth was also leader of the SCons in 2015 when the Tories got 1 MP, they still now have 6 with Boris as UK PM.
So Ruth should stop whinging about Boris, he did better for the SCons than Cameron did at Westminster
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
They don't consider it a Tory majority. But it is not "nothing to save".
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
It is very disturbing to watch
I would say I know conservative mps are very much in discussions with each other and as I said I would not rule out Boris going within days of Sue Gray's report
The other issue facing HMG is the cost of living crisis and I listened to a report on BBC business yesterday about the worldwide energy price hikes
Apparently, it has many factors including last year wind generation was poor due to an exceptionally wind free summer, the loss of coal, including the recent flooding of some of China’s coal mines, and the haste to move to green energy which has provided a vacuum that gas is now filling and is the transition fuel.
The demand worldwide far outstrips the supply and above all else Russia is holding Europe and the west to ransom over its abundance of gas, which has made things very much worse
Merkel also stopped all nuclear power stations following Fukushima creating a German energy crisis
The analyst said the idea this is short term is not born out by the facts and expects high energy prices for the next two years at least
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
Yes. Another one of BJ's mistakes - I suspect Carrie had a bit to do with that one in pushing the Green agenda.
BJ has been a full signed up member of the Green grouping in the Conservative Party for a long. long time.
Although I think BJ has to go, the one thing I would regret is losing a PM who genuinely seems to get the importance of Green issues. Not sure any of his potential successors do - and certainly not Truss. One of the good things about Boris is his expansive hinterland. Curiously, we may miss him when he goes and the fuss over parties etc recedes.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
You’re going to incur the wrath of Ruth. Better put your helmet on.
Ruth was also leader of the SCons in 2015 when the Tories got 1 MP, they still now have 6 with Boris as UK PM.
So Ruth should stop whinging about Boris, he did better for the SCons than Cameron did at Westminster
‘How To Make Friends And Influence People’, by parish councillor HY (PC). The latest airport blockbuster.
"Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab - but feared debate could hurt ‘international harmony’
"Emails to Dr Anthony Fauci show ‘likely’ explanation identified at start of coronavirus pandemic, but there were worries about saying so"
"Leading British and US scientists thought it was likely that Covid accidentally leaked from a laboratory but were concerned that further debate would harm science in China, emails show.
"An email from Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, on February 2 2020 said that “a likely explanation” was that Covid had rapidly evolved from a Sars-like virus inside human tissue in a low-security lab.
"The email, to Dr Anthony Fauci and Dr Francis Collins of the US National Institutes of Health, went on to say that such evolution may have “accidentally created a virus primed for rapid transmission between humans”.
It probably came from the lab, as I have been telling you for 18 months. This was also the opinion of many leading scientists right from the start, as I have been telling you for 18 months. it was probably engineered in the lab to be more transmissible, as I have been telling you for 18 months. But for various reasons there was a high level conspiracy to cover this up and crush an extremely plausible hypothesis: lab leak. As I have been telling you for 18 months.
So they found one senior scientist who thought it was 50/50 and another 60/40. Not exactly conclusive? Unknowable this one.
That's Jeremy Farrar, the leader of the Wellcome Trust, who thought it was 70/30 lab leak, and said so
Also this, from the earliest emails:
"In the emails, Sir Jeremy said that other scientists also believed the virus could not have evolved naturally. One such scientist was Professor Mike Farzan, of Scripps Research, the expert who discovered how the original Sars virus binds to human cells.
Scientists were particularly concerned by a part of Covid-19 called the furin cleavage site, a section of the spike protein which helps it enter cells and makes it so infectious to humans.
Summarising Professor Farzan’s concerns in an email, Sir Jeremy said: “He is bothered by the furin site and has a hard time (to) explain that as an event outside the lab, though there are possible ways in nature but highly unlikely."
And these guys
"The emails also show that Bob Garry, of the University of Texas, was unconvinced that Covid-19 emerged naturally.
“I just can’t figure out how this gets accomplished in nature,” he said.
"Professor Andrew Rambaut, from the University of Edinburgh, also said that furin cleavage site “strikes me as unusual”. "
And there are dozens more if you look at what is being revealed, right now, in the USA, it is all spilling out
But of course you know better, but also you know that all this is "unknowable" so let's not bother trying to know. But you still somehow know. Is that right?
Farrar changed his mind from 70/30 to 50/50 so over time thought it less likely. If you ask him today he might give a different percentage again. In five years time yet another percentage. I doubt even he will get to 100/0 so yes for the likes of you and I it is unknowable. Perhaps a few people in the CCP or the Wuhan lab do really know.
He didn't just change his mind, he did this in a matter of days:
On February 1 2020 he wrote that he thought lab leak was likely by 70/30 to 60/40. ie Probable. Not just possible, PROBABLE. And he wrote that many important virologists agreed with him, and also thought it highly likely the virus had been engineered
Then just 18 days later the same Jeremy Farrar co-signed this letter in The Lancet:
"We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin. Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife as have so many other emerging pathogens This is further supported by a letter from the presidents of the US National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine and by the scientific communities they represent. Conspiracy theories do nothing but create fear, rumours, and prejudice that jeopardise our global collaboration in the fight against this virus."
Wow. So in 18 days Jeremy Farrar of the Wellcome Trust went from thinking lab leak was the probable origin of the virus to thinking it was "overwhelmingly likely" the virus actually came from nature and that anyone who did suggest it came from the lab like, say, er, himself just two weeks before, was indulging in dangerous "conspiracy theories"
To make this total about-turn Jeremy Farrar must have seen some incredible evidence of natural origin, absolutely convincing copper-bottomed smoking-gun shit, right? And yet he has never shared it with anyone else. Which is a shame, as it would be nice to know where the virus came from. Ah well
And remember, the Lancet letter was organised by Peter Daszak, the co-head of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who led the gain of function research, and yet Daszak does not reveal this link in any place in the letter, and actually declares "no conflict of interest" - a statement the Lancet had to retract, painfully, a year later
It was a massive cover-up, now completely blown open. And yes, it really matters if science is this deeply corrupted
I think it's only fair that posters on this site actually recognise the basic truth of what @Leon is saying and stop just having a Pavolvian reaction when they see his posts.
His point is a fundamentally correct one namely that, regardless of what you believe about the lab leak theory, if the Telegraph is right, you had one of the country's leading scientists go in less than 3 weeks from thinking it was probable it came from a lab to dismissing such views as conspiracy theory without any explanation - now or then - as to what prompted such a radical change of view. Nor the role of Daszak and his behaviour, which can only be described, generously, as "interesting."
These are the people that we are told to trust. I think any of us, if they were faced with someone at work (or even a Prime Minister) who repeated this pattern of behaviour, would be asking questions about their veracity and what went on.
Post-this crisis, there has to be an inquiry but not one conducted by the scientific community as there is a fair chance it will be a whitewash. And quite frankly, it will be the best for science.
Well said
You can see the crucial importance of this, in what is happening right now, today, on Twitter. Whether it came from the lab or not (it did, surely, but whatever) there is now incontrovertible evidence that scientists conspired with bureaucrats to crush the very idea that it came from the lab, even if they personally thought that explanation was likely. For a year the concept of "lab leak" was literally banned by Facebook, Youtube etc
So now every nutter on social media is saying Look, they lied about lab leak - which they did - how can we trust them on vaccines, or therapies, or anything else? The awful, stupid conspiracy has undermined science at the worst possible time.
And it is a fair question, hard to answer. How CAN we trust them on vaccines if they lied about Covid origins so profusely and shamelessly?
I do trust them, because vaccines seem to work. But anyone with doubts now has many more doubts
The thing which most disturbed me was the Great Barrington Declaration. Not the thing itself, but Google and Facebook's response to it. If you Googled Great Barrington Declaration, you just got a site saying why it was wrong. What used to be considered neutral players in information were doing their best to suppress things they found inconvenient. It's understandable when the CCP are doing it. We know they're an autocracy. But when Google and Facebook are doing it it's almost more sinister. It's considerably more puzzling.
I didn't know that. I'm pretty shocked if that's the case (and I have no reason to disbelieve you). Are you saying that a Google search for example didn't bring a link to the statement, rather than just having some kind of text warning that the statement was disputed etc?
Definitely not the case now. I do seem to recall finding it rather easily at the time, too.
I've just Googled 'Great Barrington Declaration' and you're right, it gives you a link to where you would expect.
But at the time, if you googled it, you got a link to a site explaining why it was wrong/discredited etc.
If you wanted to find the site itself, you had to find another search engine (duckduckgo, for example). Google refused to link to it. I'm not sure how long that lasted for.
Looking into this more (not because I disbelieve you, but trying to get some information on how long/why):
So, interesting overall. It seems that GBD was not the top link for a while, but perhaps more algorithmic than intentional from Google? I can imagine some high rank sites linking to GBD critical statements but not GBD, which might have skewed the results? Who knows, lots of links to GBD from sites Google ranks as spammy/misinformed might also have affected its rank?
I'm more bothered about Google than other sources here as Google should be an impartial (or at least, not intentionally biased) way to find information. Facebook I never saw as an impartial provider of information, but I don't have any experience of Facebook over the past ten years or so, so that may be out of date.
My conclusion is that: 1. GBD was not the top hit, for a while, for searching GBD - which is, on the face of it, troubling 2. This may have been due to the way ranking algorithms work - or fail to work - rather than intentional policy
"Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab - but feared debate could hurt ‘international harmony’
"Emails to Dr Anthony Fauci show ‘likely’ explanation identified at start of coronavirus pandemic, but there were worries about saying so"
"Leading British and US scientists thought it was likely that Covid accidentally leaked from a laboratory but were concerned that further debate would harm science in China, emails show.
"An email from Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, on February 2 2020 said that “a likely explanation” was that Covid had rapidly evolved from a Sars-like virus inside human tissue in a low-security lab.
"The email, to Dr Anthony Fauci and Dr Francis Collins of the US National Institutes of Health, went on to say that such evolution may have “accidentally created a virus primed for rapid transmission between humans”.
It probably came from the lab, as I have been telling you for 18 months. This was also the opinion of many leading scientists right from the start, as I have been telling you for 18 months. it was probably engineered in the lab to be more transmissible, as I have been telling you for 18 months. But for various reasons there was a high level conspiracy to cover this up and crush an extremely plausible hypothesis: lab leak. As I have been telling you for 18 months.
So they found one senior scientist who thought it was 50/50 and another 60/40. Not exactly conclusive? Unknowable this one.
That's Jeremy Farrar, the leader of the Wellcome Trust, who thought it was 70/30 lab leak, and said so
Also this, from the earliest emails:
"In the emails, Sir Jeremy said that other scientists also believed the virus could not have evolved naturally. One such scientist was Professor Mike Farzan, of Scripps Research, the expert who discovered how the original Sars virus binds to human cells.
Scientists were particularly concerned by a part of Covid-19 called the furin cleavage site, a section of the spike protein which helps it enter cells and makes it so infectious to humans.
Summarising Professor Farzan’s concerns in an email, Sir Jeremy said: “He is bothered by the furin site and has a hard time (to) explain that as an event outside the lab, though there are possible ways in nature but highly unlikely."
And these guys
"The emails also show that Bob Garry, of the University of Texas, was unconvinced that Covid-19 emerged naturally.
“I just can’t figure out how this gets accomplished in nature,” he said.
"Professor Andrew Rambaut, from the University of Edinburgh, also said that furin cleavage site “strikes me as unusual”. "
And there are dozens more if you look at what is being revealed, right now, in the USA, it is all spilling out
But of course you know better, but also you know that all this is "unknowable" so let's not bother trying to know. But you still somehow know. Is that right?
Farrar changed his mind from 70/30 to 50/50 so over time thought it less likely. If you ask him today he might give a different percentage again. In five years time yet another percentage. I doubt even he will get to 100/0 so yes for the likes of you and I it is unknowable. Perhaps a few people in the CCP or the Wuhan lab do really know.
He didn't just change his mind, he did this in a matter of days:
On February 1 2020 he wrote that he thought lab leak was likely by 70/30 to 60/40. ie Probable. Not just possible, PROBABLE. And he wrote that many important virologists agreed with him, and also thought it highly likely the virus had been engineered
Then just 18 days later the same Jeremy Farrar co-signed this letter in The Lancet:
"We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin. Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife as have so many other emerging pathogens This is further supported by a letter from the presidents of the US National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine and by the scientific communities they represent. Conspiracy theories do nothing but create fear, rumours, and prejudice that jeopardise our global collaboration in the fight against this virus."
Wow. So in 18 days Jeremy Farrar of the Wellcome Trust went from thinking lab leak was the probable origin of the virus to thinking it was "overwhelmingly likely" the virus actually came from nature and that anyone who did suggest it came from the lab like, say, er, himself just two weeks before, was indulging in dangerous "conspiracy theories"
To make this total about-turn Jeremy Farrar must have seen some incredible evidence of natural origin, absolutely convincing copper-bottomed smoking-gun shit, right? And yet he has never shared it with anyone else. Which is a shame, as it would be nice to know where the virus came from. Ah well
And remember, the Lancet letter was organised by Peter Daszak, the co-head of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who led the gain of function research, and yet Daszak does not reveal this link in any place in the letter, and actually declares "no conflict of interest" - a statement the Lancet had to retract, painfully, a year later
It was a massive cover-up, now completely blown open. And yes, it really matters if science is this deeply corrupted
I think it's only fair that posters on this site actually recognise the basic truth of what @Leon is saying and stop just having a Pavolvian reaction when they see his posts.
His point is a fundamentally correct one namely that, regardless of what you believe about the lab leak theory, if the Telegraph is right, you had one of the country's leading scientists go in less than 3 weeks from thinking it was probable it came from a lab to dismissing such views as conspiracy theory without any explanation - now or then - as to what prompted such a radical change of view. Nor the role of Daszak and his behaviour, which can only be described, generously, as "interesting."
These are the people that we are told to trust. I think any of us, if they were faced with someone at work (or even a Prime Minister) who repeated this pattern of behaviour, would be asking questions about their veracity and what went on.
Post-this crisis, there has to be an inquiry but not one conducted by the scientific community as there is a fair chance it will be a whitewash. And quite frankly, it will be the best for science.
Well said
You can see the crucial importance of this, in what is happening right now, today, on Twitter. Whether it came from the lab or not (it did, surely, but whatever) there is now incontrovertible evidence that scientists conspired with bureaucrats to crush the very idea that it came from the lab, even if they personally thought that explanation was likely. For a year the concept of "lab leak" was literally banned by Facebook, Youtube etc
So now every nutter on social media is saying Look, they lied about lab leak - which they did - how can we trust them on vaccines, or therapies, or anything else? The awful, stupid conspiracy has undermined science at the worst possible time.
And it is a fair question, hard to answer. How CAN we trust them on vaccines if they lied about Covid origins so profusely and shamelessly?
I do trust them, because vaccines seem to work. But anyone with doubts now has many more doubts
The thing which most disturbed me was the Great Barrington Declaration. Not the thing itself, but Google and Facebook's response to it. If you Googled Great Barrington Declaration, you just got a site saying why it was wrong. What used to be considered neutral players in information were doing their best to suppress things they found inconvenient. It's understandable when the CCP are doing it. We know they're an autocracy. But when Google and Facebook are doing it it's almost more sinister. It's considerably more puzzling.
I didn't know that. I'm pretty shocked if that's the case (and I have no reason to disbelieve you). Are you saying that a Google search for example didn't bring a link to the statement, rather than just having some kind of text warning that the statement was disputed etc?
Definitely not the case now. I do seem to recall finding it rather easily at the time, too.
I've just Googled 'Great Barrington Declaration' and you're right, it gives you a link to where you would expect.
But at the time, if you googled it, you got a link to a site explaining why it was wrong/discredited etc.
If you wanted to find the site itself, you had to find another search engine (duckduckgo, for example). Google refused to link to it. I'm not sure how long that lasted for.
Looking into this more (not because I disbelieve you, but trying to get some information on how long/why):
So, interesting overall. It seems that GBD was not the top link for a while, but perhaps more algorithmic than intentional from Google? I can imagine some high rank sites linking to GBD critical statements but not GBD, which might have skewed the results? Who knows, lots of links to GBD from sites Google ranks as spammy/misinformed might also have affected its rank?
I'm more bothered about Google than other sources here as Google should be an impartial (or at least, not intentionally biased) way to find information. Facebook I never saw as an impartial provider of information, but I don't have any experience of Facebook over the past ten years or so, so that may be out of date.
My conclusion is that: 1. GBD was not the top hit, for a while, for searching GBD - which is, on the face of it, troubling 2. This may have been due to the way ranking algorithms work - or fail to work - rather than intentional policy
Well I thought it a deliberate decision - but then last night, I confess, out of curiousity about the identity of the rugby player arrested in Manchester, I googled the name of the individual I guessed it might be, and the first few links which came up were 'Sale player arrested' - none of which identified the player by name (although one South African site had a big picture of him with a caption that they couldn't name him). Only when you got on to page 2 or 3 of results did you get to a normal page of detail about him. And I can't imagine that this is down to a deliberate decision by Google - it must be down to the algorithms. So what you suggest may well be true.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
They don't consider it a Tory majority. But it is not "nothing to save".
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
It is very disturbing to watch
I would say I know conservative mps are very much in discussions with each other and as I said I would not rule out Boris going within days of Sue Gray's report
He won't, even if there was a VONC I think Boris wins it about 55 45 and is safe for a year.
Remember even Thatcher got 55% of Tory MPs to back her in 1990 and under current rules there would have been no second ballot so she could have stayed PM.
Even May got over 60% of Tory MPs to back her in the 2018 VONC too.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
No he isn't, Boris will continue to refuse indyref2 for a generation which is the best way of protecting the Union.
It is Starmer who would allow indyref2 if he became PM reliant on the SNP, which could go either way even with his devomax plans which is more risky for the Union
Boris to be in office for a generation?
What odds are you offering?
An SNP generation is about three years, there’s a good chance he’ll make it that far…
The other issue facing HMG is the cost of living crisis and I listened to a report on BBC business yesterday about the worldwide energy price hikes
Apparently, it has many factors including last year wind generation was poor due to an exceptionally wind free summer, the loss of coal, including the recent flooding of some of China’s coal mines, and the haste to move to green energy which has provided a vacuum that gas is now filling and is the transition fuel.
The demand worldwide far outstrips the supply and above all else Russia is holding Europe and the west to ransom over its abundance of gas, which has made things very much worse
Merkel also stopped all nuclear power stations following Fukushima creating a German energy crisis
The analyst said the idea this is short term is not born out by the facts and expects high energy prices for the next two years at least
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
Yes. Another one of BJ's mistakes - I suspect Carrie had a bit to do with that one in pushing the Green agenda.
BJ has been a full signed up member of the Green grouping in the Conservative Party for a long. long time.
Although I think BJ has to go, the one thing I would regret is losing a PM who genuinely seems to get the importance of Green issues. Not sure any of his potential successors do - and certainly not Truss. One of the good things about Boris is his expansive hinterland. Curiously, we may miss him when he goes and the fuss over parties etc recedes.
That's an interesting point. Trouble is that interest alone is insufficient; he isn't doing a very good job of actually writing the essay - and the tutorial can't be postponed.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
You’re going to incur the wrath of Ruth. Better put your helmet on.
Ruth was also leader of the SCons in 2015 when the Tories got 1 MP, they still now have 6 with Boris as UK PM.
So Ruth should stop whinging about Boris, he did better for the SCons than Cameron did at Westminster
They got 13 MPs in 2017 after Ruth had had time to turn the party round. Since devolution she is one of only two Scottish politicians with the dynamism and personality to make the political weather. The other was Alex Salmond.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
You’re going to incur the wrath of Ruth. Better put your helmet on.
Ruth was also leader of the SCons in 2015 when the Tories got 1 MP, they still now have 6 with Boris as UK PM.
So Ruth should stop whinging about Boris, he did better for the SCons than Cameron did at Westminster
Ruth absolutely saved May's bacon in 2017 and, if you're so inclined, the country from Jeremy Corbyn. Without a (relatively) strong showing from Scotland, the numbers for CandS with DUP wouldn't have been there.
An article in the Telegraph this morning about how Boris may become the shortest-serving British Prime Minister since Campbell Bannerman. 'What about Alec Douglas Home?', I thought - and looked him up to check his details. I was startled to discover that ADH played first class cricket for Middlesex. Amazing what can pass you by about people.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
You’re going to incur the wrath of Ruth. Better put your helmet on.
Ruth was also leader of the SCons in 2015 when the Tories got 1 MP, they still now have 6 with Boris as UK PM.
So Ruth should stop whinging about Boris, he did better for the SCons than Cameron did at Westminster
They got 13 MPs in 2017 after Ruth had had time to turn the party round. Since devolution she is one of only two Scottish politicians with the dynamism and personality to make the political weather. The other was Alex Salmond.
And, one might add, effectively forced out by Johnsonist Brexitism. Or maybe Brexity Johnsonism. Which is down to ...
The most that the current farrago will do is cement Labour’s poll lead for at least the time being. Johnson isn’t going anywhere. Much as I would like it to be otherwise the modern Conservative Party doesn’t defenestrate male prime ministers.
That is not the information I am receiving from within the party
Note even if 145 Tory MPs lost their seats on last night's polls, 220 Tory MPs would still keep their seats even after this onslaught.
So no certainty over 50% of Tory MPs will vote to no confidence Boris yet before he has had a chance to recover and end the remaining Covid restrictions for example
Your problem is that Boris shows no understanding of the things which cause him problems, no interest in understanding them and no willingness to remedy them.
If "Boris" did not do these things perpetually he would still be a comedic political hack. It is his willingness to consistently break the rules without giving a shit that has driven his political career.
It depends on which rules.
People have been saying for years that Boris was sacked by the Spectator for lying.
But nobody outside the bubble cares about that.
When its rules imposed on the proles then the proles do care.
There's also the fact that he created and imposed those rules on the proles before breaking them. That adds insult to injury.
There's a cliche that lawmakers can't be lawbreakers (I used that line myself) but it's not always true. If someone is opposed to the law they're breaking and the people are ok to elect them then that's okay in my eyes.
Eg if while homosexuality was illegal the public chose to elect an openly gay politician who wanted it legalised then that'd be fair enough.
It's the hypocrisy of passing a law on us, then breaking it, that is impossible to stomach.
I completely agree with this and I don't understand why any Conservative supporter would be comfortable with the precedent set by a Government imposing laws that it doesn't intend to obey. Legitimising a future left-wing PM e.g. imposing punitive rules for the rich whilst allowing the party elite to disregard them isn't a great place to go.
If the rules were justified, breaking them shows either that the lawmaker was too stupid to understand their purposes, or didn't care about the harm that could be caused by lawbreaking. If they weren't justified it's even less forgivable because the implication is that the lawmaker was happy imposing an unjustified law because they knew that they could ignore it while using the power of the state to force others to obey it.
The obvious explanation is probably the correct one. They saw themselves as a special case, above the law, which was vague in certain areas so they could pass off as work activity what was fundamentally a social gathering.
It's less easy to identify where the blame lies. The civil servant who sent the email cannot escape censure but it is common for senior officials to act on behalf their (Prime) Minister in this way and if it was thought necessary to run this past the (P)M then it would have been done informally so that the official could take any incoming flak.
None of this is surprising. What is astonishing is that they thought they would get away with it. Where was the Press? Were none of them invited? Did none of them hear about it? I suspect the story was well know amongst journalists but nobody wanted to go public until Dominic started to stir it. They couldn't ignore it then.
So yes, the PM has questions to answer, his officials likewise, but who is questioning the Press? Seems to me it is also complicit.
The most that the current farrago will do is cement Labour’s poll lead for at least the time being. Johnson isn’t going anywhere. Much as I would like it to be otherwise the modern Conservative Party doesn’t defenestrate male prime ministers.
That is not the information I am receiving from within the party
Put it this way, I will believe it when it happens - until then Boris is safe and Labour will be reaping the benefit of Boris being in place.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
They don't consider it a Tory majority. But it is not "nothing to save".
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
It is very disturbing to watch
I would say I know conservative mps are very much in discussions with each other and as I said I would not rule out Boris going within days of Sue Gray's report
He won't, even if there was a VONC I think Boris wins it about 55 45 and is safe for a year.
Remember even Thatcher got 55% of Tory MPs to back her in 1990 and under current rules there would have been no second ballot so she could have stayed PM.
Even May got over 60% of Tory MPs to back her in the 2018 VONC too.
Johnson winning a VONC does not mean he is safe for a year. The 1922 Committee can change the rules anytime they want and take away that protection.
Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.
I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.
He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.
When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.
Absolutely disastrous for the opposition parties that BJ has strengthened his position as leader of the Tories, oh yes.
We’re all quaking in our boots.
I see he is in the fridge again, family member 10 x removed in outer Mongolia has covid so he is following the rules and isolating. Not scared to go oop north no siree.
He's not actually following the rules (again):
"Boris Johnson has cancelled a visit to a vaccination centre in Burnley today after a family member tested positive for Covid, Downing St has said.
The PM won’t have to isolate but No10 say he’s taking advice not to travel. He was due to give a pooled TV interview."
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
This is precisely the wrong conclusion.
Consider the alternative scenarios. Suppose we had moved to renewables more slowly and were burning more coal and gas now. Would that be better? Coal prices are also up now, we would be having even higher prices for gas and electricity.
However, if we'd moved to renewables more quickly, we'd need to be burning less gas and so our electricity prices would be lower.
The point the analyst was making is that the transition did not take into account a sensible period to complete it and as a result, for the reasons he stated, gas is the transition energy and the demand for the foreseeable future is going to cause serious costs of loving crisis for government's worldwide
It may be of interest but I am looking out on 'Gwynt y Mor' wind farm and there is not a breath of wind and the turbines are barely turning
This site needs at least one contributor from the bona fide upper class, for balance. (It could also do with more w/c contributors, mind you).
So it's a shame that Charles has departed.
Yes this site is swarming with the kind of people who buy their own furniture. Charles lent it a touch of genuine class.
Why has Charles left?
Charles is always happy to mention his family and friends (especially if they are or were CEOs of multinational pharma companies). He took exception to someone taking such PB "banter" (which he sees as subject to Chatham House rules) and bringing it into the real world.
I had an incident with him some time ago. He happily uses his own identity on here and talks about his work. I mentioned his employer and he asked me not to. Edit: I was happy to comply as it was only good manners to do so.
As I said it's a bit run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. His view is that he brings that information to PB but we must treat it confidentially on PB or outside. So he could say, for example, my family's trust is having an exhibition of Byzantine Phallic Imagery but would not want anyone from PB to say on PB well isn't that Bob's exhibition, I know him well can't wait to speak to him; or to go to the exhibition and say, oh yes Charles told me about this on PB.
It does seem to me that people who wish to be anonymous - which is fair enough - should avoid posting lots of identifiable stuff about their private lives up here. That's just common sense, as well as avoiding trying to have it both ways.
What is really taking the **** is when those who wish to be anonymous post a load of made up stuff about themselves and then get the hump when anyone calls it out. Thankfully Charles didn't sink to that.
Holding all other assumptions constant, if the Ohio map is remade 10-5 by the state Supreme Court and the North Carolina map changed to 8-6, the map would be 217-217-1.
So increasingly it looks like the Democrats will lose The House fair and square...
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
They don't consider it a Tory majority. But it is not "nothing to save".
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
It is very disturbing to watch
I would say I know conservative mps are very much in discussions with each other and as I said I would not rule out Boris going within days of Sue Gray's report
He won't, even if there was a VONC I think Boris wins it about 55 45 and is safe for a year.
Remember even Thatcher got 55% of Tory MPs to back her in 1990 and under current rules there would have been no second ballot so she could have stayed PM.
Even May got over 60% of Tory MPs to back her in the 2018 VONC too.
Johnson winning a VONC does not mean he is safe for a year. The 1922 Committee can change the rules anytime they want and take away that protection.
And is it really tenable for him to carry on after winning so narrowly?
The other issue facing HMG is the cost of living crisis and I listened to a report on BBC business yesterday about the worldwide energy price hikes
Apparently, it has many factors including last year wind generation was poor due to an exceptionally wind free summer, the loss of coal, including the recent flooding of some of China’s coal mines, and the haste to move to green energy which has provided a vacuum that gas is now filling and is the transition fuel.
The demand worldwide far outstrips the supply and above all else Russia is holding Europe and the west to ransom over its abundance of gas, which has made things very much worse
Merkel also stopped all nuclear power stations following Fukushima creating a German energy crisis
The analyst said the idea this is short term is not born out by the facts and expects high energy prices for the next two years at least
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
Yes. Another one of BJ's mistakes - I suspect Carrie had a bit to do with that one in pushing the Green agenda.
BJ has been a full signed up member of the Green grouping in the Conservative Party for a long. long time.
Although I think BJ has to go, the one thing I would regret is losing a PM who genuinely seems to get the importance of Green issues. Not sure any of his potential successors do - and certainly not Truss. One of the good things about Boris is his expansive hinterland. Curiously, we may miss him when he goes and the fuss over parties etc recedes.
He doesn't genuinely believe any of it, though; he takes these positions because it makes him more attractive to 'the youth'. And he's probably more motivated by personal than political considerations in that respect.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
No he isn't, Boris will continue to refuse indyref2 for a generation which is the best way of protecting the Union.
It is Starmer who would allow indyref2 if he became PM reliant on the SNP, which could go either way even with his devomax plans which is more risky for the Union
So Mr [edit] R-M - and [edit] Mr Gove as well - can be complete bastards to the SCUP MPs and MSPs and they have to suck it up like good little minions?
That's basically HYUFD's view of the whole of Scotland.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
They don't consider it a Tory majority. But it is not "nothing to save".
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
It is very disturbing to watch
I would say I know conservative mps are very much in discussions with each other and as I said I would not rule out Boris going within days of Sue Gray's report
I would imagine a lot of the thought processes are:
1. If we start “living with Covid” and some sort of normality returns will Boris be able to change the narrative and be the “big picture” cheerleader of positivity and by the time of next election all the parties will be forgotten?
Or
2. Is this potentially the John Major “back to basics” situation again where the party is fundamentally holed by sleazy, arrogant “do as we say not as we do” image and the risk that more crap keeps seeping out - inevitable as the moral discipline and common sense is missing from the top of the party.
I would imagine that a lot will depend on the personal impressions the contenders have made on the Tory MPs - if for example Sunak has left a large number of MPs thinking “he’s good in private and I like his vision that he can’t discuss as CotE” - things we might not see as outsiders - then they might think they have one chance to hit the refresh button and build new Tory party ahead of next GE and they need to take it.
If the contenders don’t convince enough yet in private to other Tory MPs then they might hold off and see how things develop over this year rather than risk a failed “Cummings led coup (TM)” and ensuring another guaranteed year of Boris.
I really don't think Nick Parker (hypothetically) would have been able to claim Chatham House Rules if he had ever made some appalling gaffe on PB. I think it would have gone to CCHQ within the hour.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
They don't consider it a Tory majority. But it is not "nothing to save".
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
It is very disturbing to watch
I would say I know conservative mps are very much in discussions with each other and as I said I would not rule out Boris going within days of Sue Gray's report
He won't, even if there was a VONC I think Boris wins it about 55 45 and is safe for a year.
Remember even Thatcher got 55% of Tory MPs to back her in 1990 and under current rules there would have been no second ballot so she could have stayed PM.
Even May got over 60% of Tory MPs to back her in the 2018 VONC too.
Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives.
Boris useless twat as he is I expect Sue Grey's report to not make any conclusions with something like "it could be seen as...." as damning as it gets.
Masked Singer - no stand out performance yet.
Prince Andrew - haven't been following it.
Nicola Sturgeon - those calling for Boris to resign shouldn't be as casual to dismiss her transgression.
Succession - still trying to get into the latest season am struggling on
@Charles - tricky one. Slightly wants to run with the hare (it's all an anonymous chat room Chatham House rules, etc) and hunt with the hounds (this is who I am and my family did/does XYZ). But as with everyone apart from about three posters whose posts I routinely skip, he is an important part of PB so I'd rather he stayed.
"Djoko if nothing else is highlighting the extraordinary times we live in and the extent to which "the State" has intruded into our personal lives."
IMV this is a bogus argument, as vaccinations for things like yellow fever have been required to get into some countries for generations. AIUI polio is another one for some countries.
Indeed.
One of the first legal interventions (that we have records of) by the state in health care was -
The practice of quarantine, as we know it, began during the 14th century in an effort to protect coastal cities from plague epidemics. Ships arriving in Venice from infected ports were required to sit at anchor for 40 days before landing. This practice, called quarantine, was derived from the Italian words quaranta giorni which mean 40 days.
Wonder if there were any tennis players on the ships at Venice.....
So 600 years ago and in a dozen-odd countries today negates my statement about "the extent to which the State has [now] intruded into our personal lives"?
Probably not, but it's interesting. There are also still countries that restrict entry for people with HIV, for example.
Indeed. I have to do an HIV test every couple of years for my visa, as do foreigners in a number of Asian countries. Even though there are now widely available treatments, many places don’t want people with infectious diseases living in their country.
I think it's also about the potential expense to treat it, I remember Nige got a whole load of shit about the idea of introducing the same restrictions in the UK. I think it was fair because we have a socialised healthcare system and HIV treatment costs are huge.
Pointless anecdote: I thought I'd backed Rishi Sunak to be next Prime Minister but on checking, I'm actually on Liz Truss. Not sure how that happened but I am now persuaded we need another woman in Number 10 and another boost to my ailing bank balance.
I still think Mark Harper is underpriced. He has managed his positioning over partygate very astutely, is an anti-lockdowner with support from the right wing, but not a swivel-eyed ERGer.
If I were betting significant amounts based on value (which I'm not) I would be on Harper and Javid.
Harper if the Conservatives were in opposition but since they are in government, they are choosing a new Prime Minister who must hit the ground running. This probably restricts them to a handful of senior Cabinet ministers. Harper has never run a department, having gone from junior ministerial roles to Chief Whip.
In normal times maybe, but I think they have been drifting away from that, like our friends across the Atlantic. Boris had only been FS for a few months but that was never going to stand in the way. The trouble with those in ministerial posts now is that they are tarred by their loyalty to Johnson. None have been sufficiently disloyal. The one who gets closest is Sajid Javid because he previously walked out in a spat with Cummings and is only recently back.
There are few ex cabinet ministers available with sufficient support either, barring Hunt.
Re Harper specifically, I am not sure why he is relatively high up in the betting. As far as I can tell, he hasn't got a natural base in the party or at least one where there might be a competitive candidate for that bloc.
I am energised and excited that HYUFD is supporting the campaign to remove Conservative councillors here in Scotland. I would like to invite him to come leaflet with me in Fraserburgh to unseat Aberdeenshire Council leader Andy Kille, who's leadership he describes as "nothing to save".
I think that "Nothing to Save" is a fine election slogan when you run a council.
Aberdeenshire is NOC not Conservative majority controlled
He didn't say it was. He referred to him as council leader. No idea if that is accurate, but he never said it was majority controlled.
And my original comment was the Conservatives control no council in Scotland, which is correct. Not a single council in Scotland has a Conservative majority of its councillors
“ the Conservatives control no council in Scotland”
Have you informed Douglas Ross?
Could call Andy Kille in the Council Leader's office at the council office (which interestingly is in Aberdeen city - another council's area...) and tell him that although he runs the council he really doesn't and there is nothing to save.
I thought JRM was spectacularly tone-deaf last night. But compared to HY...
Epping Forest was NOC in the early 2000s and late 1990s, we do not consider we controlled the council then only now as we have a Conservative majority.
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
Uninformed comment. In Scotland we have multi-member wards with transferable votes. In practice, it makes it almost impossible for any party to win a majority on a Scottish Council. If FPTP had applied, as in England, the Scots Tories would certainly have won a very handsome majority on Aberdeenshire Council in 2017 when the council was last contested.
In FPTP terms Scottish Conservatives also won only 6 MPs in 2019 while UK Tories won 365 MPs under Boris. They are only a small wing of the party and largely irrelevant to the party and Union unless they manage to deny the SNP a majority at Holyrood, which they have still failed to do.
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
No, they don't dictate it. But for the "Minister for the Union" to have lost practically all support from the parliamentary party at Holyrood, plus the Scottish Leader, is very damaging indeed. Boris is a liability when it comes to protecting the union which for most Tories is a pretty existential matter - or should be.
No he isn't, Boris will continue to refuse indyref2 for a generation which is the best way of protecting the Union.
It is Starmer who would allow indyref2 if he became PM reliant on the SNP, which could go either way even with his devomax plans which is more risky for the Union
Comments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droppin_Well_bombing
Not to mention detailed medical histories if you want to emigrate. Australia, for example....
It's possible a couple of % on the Lib Dem score is embarrassed Tories parking their vote there for now, but likely to return home come the next election. Good news for the yellows in the local elections if so, though.
And there has been no breach of Chatham House rules. I have not named him on here, I have not identified him to anyone in real life as a PBer, I would not respond to a fellow PBer's request for his surname.
If I were betting significant amounts based on value (which I'm not) I would be on Harper and Javid.
Pure anecdote - went off for coffee this morning with a left of centre mate who will never vote Tory but who fits the North London Labour profile (Remain, professional, anti-Tory etc). Says he doesn't know what Keir or Labour stands for. I would imagine that type of voter is open to a well crafted LD / Green message (I suspect more the latter - LDs are a bit passe
Apparently, it has many factors including last year wind generation was poor due to an exceptionally wind free summer, the loss of coal, including the recent flooding of some of China’s coal mines, and the haste to move to green energy which has provided a vacuum that gas is now filling and is the transition fuel.
The demand worldwide far outstrips the supply and above all else Russia is holding Europe and the west to ransom over its abundance of gas, which has made things very much worse
Merkel also stopped all nuclear power stations following Fukushima creating a German energy crisis
The analyst said the idea this is short term is not born out by the facts and expects high energy prices for the next two years at least
I would suggest the world is seeing the results of too much haste to move to green and insufficient planning for transitional energy which is highlighted by the controversy over Cambo oil field in Scotland
If SCons consider NOC a Tory majority no wonder they fail to win more
*Wykehamist Derangement Syndrome - he seems to have a bit of an issue…!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/watch-jacob-rees-mogg-lays-into-nick-boles/amp
Please do keep digging the pit deeper. Its astonishing to watch.
On a related matter, I do not know if there is a simple administrative step that might discourage these running tiffs that spoil some threads and eventually drive good people away. Would a limit on posting frequency help, or just encourage sock puppets? Maybe even a five minute time-out would allow for reflection. And a ban on threats of doxxing.
'My honourable friend makes a characteristically Wykehamist point: highly intelligent but fundamentally wrong.
' [...] And I must confess I've sometimes thought my right honourable friend for West Dorset [Oliver Letwin] was more a Wykehamist than of my own school'
The English Tories should just be done with it and fess up to their newfound love for English self-government.
If the rules were justified, breaking them shows either that the lawmaker was too stupid to understand their purposes, or didn't care about the harm that could be caused by lawbreaking. If they weren't justified it's even less forgivable because the implication is that the lawmaker was happy imposing an unjustified law because they knew that they could ignore it while using the power of the state to force others to obey it.
And that's sporting given I can get better odds without the date limit
https://www.grampianonline.co.uk/news/change-at-the-top-as-aberdeenshire-council-leader-leaves-conservatives-201538/
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration includes a reference to google censorship being mentioned in the commons, but without further detail
- Tobes talking about it here: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-cant-we-talk-about-the-great-barrington-declaration
- Spiked has this, suggesting censorship https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/
- Gizmodo maintains there was no censorship https://gizmodo.com/conservatives-pull-google-into-their-plan-to-let-people-1845371054
So, interesting overall. It seems that GBD was not the top link for a while, but perhaps more algorithmic than intentional from Google? I can imagine some high rank sites linking to GBD critical statements but not GBD, which might have skewed the results? Who knows, lots of links to GBD from sites Google ranks as spammy/misinformed might also have affected its rank?
I'm more bothered about Google than other sources here as Google should be an impartial (or at least, not intentionally biased) way to find information. Facebook I never saw as an impartial provider of information, but I don't have any experience of Facebook over the past ten years or so, so that may be out of date.
My conclusion is that:
1. GBD was not the top hit, for a while, for searching GBD - which is, on the face of it, troubling
2. This may have been due to the way ranking algorithms work - or fail to work - rather than intentional policy
They do not dictate who leads the UK party
If we needed more coal and more gas then our energy would be more expensive now, not less.
Sustainable, clean, cheap green energy means that we don't need to pay an arm and a leg to the Putins and Sheiks of the world.
If anything, the lack of investment in tidal is looking rather foolhardy, not the push for Green energy and fuel efficiency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP11L9jRW94
Also, for the Tories' prospects to be the worst, the LibDems need to recover in the south, as the preferred destination for discontented Tories in such seats - and the poll hints that some of that may be happening.
I'm anonymous on here, though it'd be trivial for someone to work out who I am if they were sad enough to do so (I am no-one of any importance). If someone identified Mrs J I'd be a bit concerned and furious.
Consider the alternative scenarios. Suppose we had moved to renewables more slowly and were burning more coal and gas now. Would that be better? Coal prices are also up now, we would be having even higher prices for gas and electricity.
However, if we'd moved to renewables more quickly, we'd need to be burning less gas and so our electricity prices would be lower.
There are few ex cabinet ministers available with sufficient support either, barring Hunt.
It is Starmer who would allow indyref2 if he became PM reliant on the SNP, which could go either way even with his devomax plans which is more risky for the Union
I had an incident with him some time ago. He happily uses his own identity on here and talks about his work. I mentioned his employer and he asked me not to. Edit: I was happy to comply as it was only good manners to do so.
As I said it's a bit run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. His view is that he brings that information to PB but we must treat it confidentially on PB or outside. So he could say, for example, my family's trust is having an exhibition of Byzantine Phallic Imagery but would not want anyone from PB to say on PB well isn't that Bob's exhibition, I know him well can't wait to speak to him; or to go to the exhibition and say, oh yes Charles told me about this on PB.
The problem with the tinterweb is its easy to get het up and start slinging mud at the other anonymous posters - been there, done that, withdrawn and apologised. The danger with being an actual identifiable person is that its possible to slip over the legal boundary or as has been seen on things like Twitter slipping over the physical boundary for nutters.
When both Mrs RP and myself were councillors one of the hard things was being known with a published address. Having to call the police because you're being threatened outside your own home by a nutter is Not Fun.
For those that haven't seen it, this is how you should send threatening messages. To be delivered by Brian Blessed in full plate...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKHihAPr2Rc&t=45s
What odds are you offering?
So Ruth should stop whinging about Boris, he did better for the SCons than Cameron did at Westminster
I would say I know conservative mps are very much in discussions with each other and as I said I would not rule out Boris going within days of Sue Gray's report
And I can't imagine that this is down to a deliberate decision by Google - it must be down to the algorithms.
So what you suggest may well be true.
Remember even Thatcher got 55% of Tory MPs to back her in 1990 and under current rules there would have been no second ballot so she could have stayed PM.
Even May got over 60% of Tory MPs to back her in the 2018 VONC too.
It's less easy to identify where the blame lies. The civil servant who sent the email cannot escape censure but it is common for senior officials to act on behalf their (Prime) Minister in this way and if it was thought necessary to run this past the (P)M then it would have been done informally so that the official could take any incoming flak.
None of this is surprising. What is astonishing is that they thought they would get away with it. Where was the Press? Were none of them invited? Did none of them hear about it? I suspect the story was well know amongst journalists but nobody wanted to go public until Dominic started to stir it. They couldn't ignore it then.
So yes, the PM has questions to answer, his officials likewise, but who is questioning the Press? Seems to me it is also complicit.
It may be of interest but I am looking out on 'Gwynt y Mor' wind farm and there is not a breath of wind and the turbines are barely turning
What is really taking the **** is when those who wish to be anonymous post a load of made up stuff about themselves and then get the hump when anyone calls it out. Thankfully Charles didn't sink to that.
https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2021/12/22/redistricting-is-going-surprisingly-well-for-democrats So increasingly it looks like the Democrats will lose The House fair and square...
Re Mr R-M - I hadn't realised he'd been asserting the supremacy of the SoSfS over the latter's own SCUP leader. Which makes it even worse for Mr Ross.
1. If we start “living with Covid” and some sort of normality returns will Boris be able to change the narrative and be the “big picture” cheerleader of positivity and by the time of next election all the parties will be forgotten?
Or
2. Is this potentially the John Major “back to basics” situation again where the party is fundamentally holed by sleazy, arrogant “do as we say not as we do” image and the risk that more crap keeps seeping out - inevitable as the moral discipline and common sense is missing from the top of the party.
I would imagine that a lot will depend on the personal impressions the contenders have made on the Tory MPs - if for example Sunak has left a large number of MPs thinking “he’s good in private and I like his vision that he can’t discuss as CotE” - things we might not see as outsiders - then they might think they have one chance to hit the refresh button and build new Tory party ahead of next GE and they need to take it.
If the contenders don’t convince enough yet in private to other Tory MPs then they might hold off and see how things develop over this year rather than risk a failed “Cummings led coup (TM)” and ensuring another guaranteed year of Boris.