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Terrible front pages for Johnson as CON drops 28% – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 13 in General
imageTerrible front pages for Johnson as CON drops 28% – politicalbetting.com

New YouGov poll has CON down to just 28%. This is 17% down on GE2019 Lab 38 (+1)Con 28 (-5)LDem 13 (+3)Green 7 (+1)RefUK 4 (-1)

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • By look of things, Andy has NOT succeeded in knocking Boris off the front pages. Instead, a double bill.

    Perhaps the Great British Public has room in its collective spleen for two top-tier scandals? And scoundrels?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    Andy_JS said:

    "How the Government abused nudge theory
    Did my former team sanction state propaganda?
    BY SIMON RUDA"

    https://unherd.com/2022/01/how-the-government-abused-nudge-theory/

    They are a super interesting lot. Its a real shame that they have been spun out and not really integral part of government anymore.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,072
    This story has a momentum all of its own - the Scots Tories for obvious reasons distancing themselves from BJ, but I wonder how this story sits among older (60plus) English Tory voters (N Farage's so called `decent people') who from what I am hearing are not at all happy how this pans out......
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    Another consistent rule breaker....

    Novak Djokovic is now accused of breaking SPAIN'S Covid rules when visiting Marbella last month - with the Serb already facing questions in Australia and Serbia

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10396519/Djokovic-trouble-THREE-countries-Concerns-star-broke-Spains-rules-visiting.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,072

    Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html

    I dare say BJ could find a job for her in his Media department......
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited January 13
    BBC Katie Razzall, culture editor -

    With every loud smash, there'd be a moan or a shout of "stop" from someone in the gathering crowd below. It felt brutal; an assault on beauty.

    At a time when statues across the country are being reassessed, there'll be those who believe that if it's legal to tear down a monument to a prominent slaver, as happened in Bristol, it is also time to do the same to an artwork by a man who committed horrific sexual crimes. If that's the case though, where does it end?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-59972806

    I seemed to remember some people raised this issue when mobs starting attacking statues, but they were shouted down. But because this one is "beautiful" that definitely gets a pass.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 6,195
    edited January 13

    Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html

    Cannot remember the man's name right now, but Tony Curtis played him in the movie. Started out wanting to be a Catholic brother, then pretends to be one, then graduates to the priesthood, gets busted, moved on to impersonating doctor in the Canadian navy (becoming a hero in the process), then a reforming prison warden in Texas. And he was good at all of these jobs, until he either lost his cool, or circumstances got the better of him.

    It was a disease, a mental condition. Sounds like this young woman has something similar. Person of considerable intelligence and talent, who is unable to cope with their reality to some significant degree. And - most unlike most of us - actually does something about it, by creating a better one for themselves. As long as they can keep all the spinning plates in the air, that is.

    Sound familiar?

    PLUS she and #45 share the same alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania.

    Ben Franklin must be proud?
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,072

    Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html

    Cannot remember the man's name right now, but Tony Curtis played him in the movie. Started out wanting to be a Catholic brother, then pretends to be one, then graduates to the priesthood, gets busted, moved on to impersonating doctor in the Canadian navy (becoming a hero in the process), then a reforming prison warden in Texas. And he was good at all of these jobs, until he either lost his cool, or circumstances got the better of him.

    It was a disease, a mental condition. Sounds like this young woman has something similar. Person of considerable intelligence and talent, who is unable to cope with their reality to some significant degree. And - most unlike most of us - actually does something about it, by creating a better one for themselves. As long as they can keep all the spinning plates in the air, that is.

    Sound familiar?

    PLUS she and #45 share the same alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania.

    Ben Franklin must be proud?
    Jeffrey Archer (once a Tory MP) also afflicted with this syndrome
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited January 13
    "This is such a weird way for the BBC to frame the, very reasonable, objections to Eric Gill that have been raised in recent years. Also, the idea that Qanon is a ‘group’…"

    https://twitter.com/nickfthilton/status/1481402486523310080?s=20
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 6,195
    edited January 13
    LOL on noticing the small photo-blurb on bottom left corner of Daily Sun:

    "RICKY: POPE IS STUPID"

    Since the Prince's infamy is NOT enough to knock party-hearty Boris off the front pages, are Mr Gervais and His Holiness teaming up to divert the public gaze from the PM's less-than-secret shame & garden?

    EDIT - and is it possible (or is it probable) this header will replaced in subsequent edition by:

    "POPE: RICKY IS STUPID"
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 1,506

    Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html

    Cannot remember the man's name right now, but Tony Curtis played him in the movie. Started out wanting to be a Catholic brother, then pretends to be one, then graduates to the priesthood, gets busted, moved on to impersonating doctor in the Canadian navy (becoming a hero in the process), then a reforming prison warden in Texas. And he was good at all of these jobs, until he either lost his cool, or circumstances got the better of him.

    It was a disease, a mental condition. Sounds like this young woman has something similar. Person of considerable intelligence and talent, who is unable to cope with their reality to some significant degree. And - most unlike most of us - actually does something about it, by creating a better one for themselves. As long as they can keep all the spinning plates in the air, that is.

    Sound familiar?

    PLUS she and #45 share the same alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania.

    Ben Franklin must be proud?
    Jeffrey Archer (once a Tory MP) also afflicted with this syndrome
    What syndromes that then? Bit disappointed in all three of you to be honest. 🤨 none of you have a clue what’s really gone on here. The expensive school says what? Proof she came from stable and loving household? Where’s the proof of family accepting of her sexuality? School is school at the end of the day from perspective of child.

    I read it as a sad story. That she’s been victimised, and that’s got to stop! I hope it works out for her.

  • Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html

    Cannot remember the man's name right now, but Tony Curtis played him in the movie. Started out wanting to be a Catholic brother, then pretends to be one, then graduates to the priesthood, gets busted, moved on to impersonating doctor in the Canadian navy (becoming a hero in the process), then a reforming prison warden in Texas. And he was good at all of these jobs, until he either lost his cool, or circumstances got the better of him.

    It was a disease, a mental condition. Sounds like this young woman has something similar. Person of considerable intelligence and talent, who is unable to cope with their reality to some significant degree. And - most unlike most of us - actually does something about it, by creating a better one for themselves. As long as they can keep all the spinning plates in the air, that is.

    Sound familiar?

    PLUS she and #45 share the same alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania.

    Ben Franklin must be proud?
    Jeffrey Archer (once a Tory MP) also afflicted with this syndrome
    Yours truly sat in the public gallery at His Lorship's trial in the Old Bailey for several days, we had a better view of the proceedings AND the defendant in the dock, than the media.

    At one point, they reported that Archer was taking copious notes of the proceedings. He was definitely using his pen, alright. But what we in the public gallery could see, but the press could not, was that he was actually going though his diary (day planner to Americans) and crossing out appointments.

    My thought at the time was, does he think he's gonna be convicted? Which he was, which was NOT much of a surprise, given the testimony and evidence against him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited January 13
    Nursing and midwifery leaders have urged Sajid Javid to delay the introduction of compulsory Covid jabs for NHS staff and said the controversial policy amounted to “self-sabotage”.

    Significantly, the NHS Confederation, which represents hospital trusts in England, made clear it believed that the policy is being introduced at undue haste

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/12/sajid-javid-urged-to-delay-mandatory-jabs-for-nhs-staff-in-england

    The thing is just kicking the can down the road won't change anything. Those working for the NHS, who have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, and yet still aren't jabbed over a year after they could, aren't just going to do so in a few weeks time.

    NHS workers have had far longer than care home staff to get the bloody jab.
  • Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html

    Cannot remember the man's name right now, but Tony Curtis played him in the movie. Started out wanting to be a Catholic brother, then pretends to be one, then graduates to the priesthood, gets busted, moved on to impersonating doctor in the Canadian navy (becoming a hero in the process), then a reforming prison warden in Texas. And he was good at all of these jobs, until he either lost his cool, or circumstances got the better of him.

    It was a disease, a mental condition. Sounds like this young woman has something similar. Person of considerable intelligence and talent, who is unable to cope with their reality to some significant degree. And - most unlike most of us - actually does something about it, by creating a better one for themselves. As long as they can keep all the spinning plates in the air, that is.

    Sound familiar?

    PLUS she and #45 share the same alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania.

    Ben Franklin must be proud?
    Jeffrey Archer (once a Tory MP) also afflicted with this syndrome
    What syndromes that then? Bit disappointed in all three of you to be honest. 🤨 none of you have a clue what’s really gone on here. The expensive school says what? Proof she came from stable and loving household? Where’s the proof of family accepting of her sexuality? School is school at the end of the day from perspective of child.

    I read it as a sad story. That she’s been victimised, and that’s got to stop! I hope it works out for her.

    Possible you are correct. Hope you are, even though its seriously terrible if so.

    However, have my doubts. Too many zigs and zags in her story. So retaining original thesis BUT reserving judgment.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,024

    Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html

    Cannot remember the man's name right now, but Tony Curtis played him in the movie. Started out wanting to be a Catholic brother, then pretends to be one, then graduates to the priesthood, gets busted, moved on to impersonating doctor in the Canadian navy (becoming a hero in the process), then a reforming prison warden in Texas. And he was good at all of these jobs, until he either lost his cool, or circumstances got the better of him.

    It was a disease, a mental condition. Sounds like this young woman has something similar. Person of considerable intelligence and talent, who is unable to cope with their reality to some significant degree. And - most unlike most of us - actually does something about it, by creating a better one for themselves. As long as they can keep all the spinning plates in the air, that is.

    Sound familiar?

    PLUS she and #45 share the same alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania.

    Ben Franklin must be proud?
    Jeffrey Archer (once a Tory MP) also afflicted with this syndrome
    What syndromes that then? Bit disappointed in all three of you to be honest. 🤨 none of you have a clue what’s really gone on here. The expensive school says what? Proof she came from stable and loving household? Where’s the proof of family accepting of her sexuality? School is school at the end of the day from perspective of child.

    I read it as a sad story. That she’s been victimised, and that’s got to stop! I hope it works out for her.

    Possible you are correct. Hope you are, even though its seriously terrible if so.

    However, have my doubts. Too many zigs and zags in her story. So retaining original thesis BUT reserving judgment.
    I actually think MR's wrong on this. It is true that an expensive school does not mean she was not abused by her family. However, it does say that she had more opportunity than many who did not go to such a school. Leaving such information out of an application for the Rhodes Scholarship is a fairly sh*tty thing for her to do. The information may, or may not, have made a difference as to whether she was chosen from all the other applicants.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144
    JUST IN: Australian Open draw has been postponed amid uncertainty over Novak Djokovic’s status https://trib.al/33eUR5W (via AP) https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1481485123094818816/photo/1
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    Novak Djokovic ‘navigating’ Australian border force officials

    https://twitter.com/InbetweenerVidz/status/1481210950120321029?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.

    I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.

    He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.

    When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,175
    That YouGov poll will focus minds. I think he’s done.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144
    tlg86 said:

    That YouGov poll will focus minds. I think he’s done.

    Fieldwork was yesterday afternoon/evening and this morning - all before PMQs
    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1481398303241740294
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,284

    Nursing and midwifery leaders have urged Sajid Javid to delay the introduction of compulsory Covid jabs for NHS staff and said the controversial policy amounted to “self-sabotage”.

    Significantly, the NHS Confederation, which represents hospital trusts in England, made clear it believed that the policy is being introduced at undue haste

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/12/sajid-javid-urged-to-delay-mandatory-jabs-for-nhs-staff-in-england

    The thing is just kicking the can down the road won't change anything. Those working for the NHS, who have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, and yet still aren't jabbed over a year after they could, aren't just going to do so in a few weeks time.

    NHS workers have had far longer than care home staff to get the bloody jab.

    It's errant nonsense. And midwifery should not be complaining in particular, what message does it send to pregnant women, a group with low takeup - ooh a bit dangerous to get the jab...
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,072
    Sandpit said:

    Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.

    I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.

    He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.

    When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.

    A good stab at summarising his 2 years in power - though a little generous on the NI protocol and also the test & trace debacle (as well as the whole whiff of corruption re tenders and big money....) trouble is I think there's more to be found re his administration's shortcomings and he's hardly got a clean sheet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    edited January 13

    Nursing and midwifery leaders have urged Sajid Javid to delay the introduction of compulsory Covid jabs for NHS staff and said the controversial policy amounted to “self-sabotage”.

    Significantly, the NHS Confederation, which represents hospital trusts in England, made clear it believed that the policy is being introduced at undue haste

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/12/sajid-javid-urged-to-delay-mandatory-jabs-for-nhs-staff-in-england

    The thing is just kicking the can down the road won't change anything. Those working for the NHS, who have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, and yet still aren't jabbed over a year after they could, aren't just going to do so in a few weeks time.

    NHS workers have had far longer than care home staff to get the bloody jab.

    Bunch of idiots, the lot of them.

    Send an NHS recruitment team to Manila to pick up a few thousand nurses and midwives, then do what Ronald Reagan did to the air traffic controllers.

    Oh, and there’s whole layers of NHS management vested interests, that could probably be removed with no noticable difference other than the cost saving.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,090
    edited January 13

    Nursing and midwifery leaders have urged Sajid Javid to delay the introduction of compulsory Covid jabs for NHS staff and said the controversial policy amounted to “self-sabotage”.

    Significantly, the NHS Confederation, which represents hospital trusts in England, made clear it believed that the policy is being introduced at undue haste

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/12/sajid-javid-urged-to-delay-mandatory-jabs-for-nhs-staff-in-england

    The thing is just kicking the can down the road won't change anything. Those working for the NHS, who have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, and yet still aren't jabbed over a year after they could, aren't just going to do so in a few weeks time.

    NHS workers have had far longer than care home staff to get the bloody jab.

    We have 10,000 staff across 5 hospitals at our trust. I would estimate that you are looking at 800-1,000 at our Trust either not vaccinated or partially vaccinated (yes some had their 1st jab only, not their second).

    Redeployment or termination will be the options and neither are attractive options to Trusts or the individuals themselves.

    I think the mandatory vaccination status coupled with an exodus of staff leaving the NHS because of burnout once things start to settle down and difficulty to recruit new staff means tough times are ahead
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    6% believe him. That means 2%, adjusted for the decapitation quotient. Remarkable.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    edited January 13

    Sandpit said:

    Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.

    I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.

    He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.

    When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.

    I see where you're coming from, but the issue is that Boris never learns. He's making the same sort of unforced errors he has throughout his life, due to the same character flaws. I see little chance of him learning from his recent mistakes and becoming the colossus he is in his own mind.

    He is mortally wounded, and I can't see a way back for him. The Conservative Party would be best to get rid and move on.
    I do think that politically it’s going to be difficult for him in the next few weeks and months, but there are an awful lot of people out to get him - starting with Cummings, who was hired to innovate in government and ended up being unceremoniously dumped in favour of the woke wife. There’s also a lot of the media who hate him with a passion because of the EU stuff, and will have a lot of minor stories that they think they can get to add up to something bigger.

    I think the crunch point will be the local elections, where he needs to be close to level with Labour to avoid hundreds of council losses. The crunch point with the Tory MP could well be their own pay rise, which is being talked up by the opposition as being a bad thing, despite the fact that it’s below inflation and the authority on the subject has been removed from the MPs themselves.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 600
    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    edited January 13
    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,762
    Sandpit said:

    Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.

    I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.

    He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.

    When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.

    Absolutely disastrous for the opposition parties that BJ has strengthened his position as leader of the Tories, oh yes.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,817
    tlg86 said:

    That YouGov poll will focus minds. I think he’s done.

    It's a bad poll - although less bad than I expected. What is notable is that Labour only added 1 point. It's clear they have not sealed the deal. My own preference would be for Boris to go sooner rather than later to give the party more time to recover lost ground. Generally mid-term polls are a poor predictor for what may happen 2 years down the road so I would respectfully ask if HYUFD avoids telling me what they currently might say about alternative leaders now, 'red wall, Scottish or Falkland island sub-samples..........and drawing a whole heap of ridiculous conclusions from them!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529
    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,762
    edited January 13
    felix said:

    tlg86 said:

    That YouGov poll will focus minds. I think he’s done.

    It's a bad poll - although less bad than I expected. What is notable is that Labour only added 1 point. It's clear they have not sealed the deal. My own preference would be for Boris to go sooner rather than later to give the party more time to recover lost ground. Generally mid-term polls are a poor predictor for what may happen 2 years down the road so I would respectfully ask if HYUFD avoids telling me what they currently might say about alternative leaders now, 'red wall, Scottish or Falkland island sub-samples..........and drawing a whole heap of ridiculous conclusions from them!
    Lab not increasing their % significantly should concentrate Tory minds.

    'If only we can get rid of the stinking piece of deadweight that's dragging our numbers down..'
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,817
    edited January 13

    felix said:

    tlg86 said:

    That YouGov poll will focus minds. I think he’s done.

    It's a bad poll - although less bad than I expected. What is notable is that Labour only added 1 point. It's clear they have not sealed the deal. My own preference would be for Boris to go sooner rather than later to give the party more time to recover lost ground. Generally mid-term polls are a poor predictor for what may happen 2 years down the road so I would respectfully ask if HYUFD avoids telling me what they currently might say about alternative leaders now, 'red wall, Scottish or Falkland island sub-samples..........and drawing a whole heap of ridiculous conclusions from them!
    Lab not increasing their % significantly should concentrate Tory minds.

    'If only we can get rid of the stinking piece of deadweight that's dragging our numbers down..'
    Well quite - as a Tory I obviously cannot be quite so florid in my phraseology but yes, he would never have been my choice of leader and he has wasted a massive opportunity by his stupidity. However, there are few democracies which lack a broadly right of centre base of around 35% or so and turning that into working majorities requires a better standard of leadership than he has shown. Equally the years have told me that politics can be a fast moving and changing game. At my age predicting much more than an even chance of reaching that dinner date at the w/e is about as far as I'd go - let alone a GE that remains not imminent.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 1,562
    edited January 13

    This story has a momentum all of its own - the Scots Tories for obvious reasons distancing themselves from BJ, but I wonder how this story sits among older (60plus) English Tory voters (N Farage's so called `decent people') who from what I am hearing are not at all happy how this pans out......

    The Scottish Tory leader and most of his MSPs have called for Johnson to go. If he rides out the immediate furore (including the Sue Grey report, if a police intervention doesn't thwart her first,) then they're going to have to find some effective means to respond or their demands will look hollow and futile.

    I can't think of anything short of a divorce from the party in London that's going to seem adequate under the circumstances, especially since Gove is reported to have dismissed Ross's intervention by belittling him at a gathering of Tory MPs in the Commons last night.

    Although, as @Carnyx reminded me when this matter was discussed yesterday, it may also come down to the allocation of resources. If the Holyrood branch office doesn't own its own cash and property then it may be felt that it can't afford to go financially, even if it feels it needs to go politically. So, we shall see.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    edited January 13
    Mornin' All!
    I see the usual suspects ..... Mail and Express .... are rallying round the PM. But there are two other stories, and both have potential to knock his squirming off the top.
    The Royal Family is always box office and either the Duke of York has no idea where he puts his plonker or Ms Guiffre has some very greedy, and optimistic 'supporters' in the grey mist behind her.
    And I think the 'sports star ignoring the rules' story will run.

    And I agree with Mr TUD at 6.17 and Mr F at 6.24; all we've got so far is an opinion poll which says 'I won't vote for that lying slob'. Or words to that effect.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,713
    Amazing poll figures - how could as many as 6% think he was telling the truth??
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,090
    edited January 13
    Stories and experiences like below all across the land is why Boris is finished:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/12/rory-kinnear-no-10-lockdown-party-buried-sister

    An absolutely heartbreaking and powerful read.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,762
    edited January 13
    If the Mail has noticed that the BJocracy has shat on the SCons, things are bad. Of course the Westminster SCon contingency, Ross aside, has remained notably silent. Does this count as a civil war?




  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    Popular currently, sure, but will it be as popular when people start paying for,it.

    It is also reckless given we will need fossil fuels for the foreseeable future,

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-01-10/greenflation-is-a-crucial-step-in-the-energy-transition-central-banks-take-note
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991
    jonny83 said:

    Stories and experiences like below all across the land is why Boris is finished:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/12/rory-kinnear-no-10-lockdown-party-buried-sister

    An absolutely heartbreaking and powerful read.

    All it needs to finish Johnson off is one more “word of,the day” tweet from Susie Dent and another pithy column from Marina Hyde, the official opposition along with led by donkeys.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    Lol, on Vanilla the lead story comes up as “Tories drop 28%” - now that would be dramatic!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,690
    Good morning, everyone.

    I would just reiterate my message of yesterday. Be kind, Conservative MPs. Put the fool out of his misery.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    edited January 13
    Taz said:
    That's interesting. This is M&S changing the name. Crazy decision by M&S imo; it is a northern product originally and the North generally does not like BS. The name is not offensive, any more than having "small" as a shirt size or "mini" as a car. Guilt by association for words only works in a handful of cases.

    I thought Midget Gems was a brand from a company called Maynards owned or at least marketed by Cadbury, but perhaps it has become a generic?


  • darkagedarkage Posts: 1,251
    Sandpit said:

    Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.

    I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.

    He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.

    When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.

    My take on it is that the achievements were down to Cummings and other advisors.
    OTOH Boris being led by Carrie is a complete disaster.

    There is absolutely no way back for him after this episode. At the time of the pandemic people were losing careers for very minor lockdown transgressions. Even the Cummings / Barnard Castle episode was nothing compared to this. Coupled with lies / Allegra Stratton in tears on the doorstep etc.

    Boris's approach to the pandemic and dislike for restrictions is as much due to backbench tory MP's as it is to his own political judgement.

    His unashamed populism and adoption of the hang and flog em narrative, along with terrible laws following mad public campaigns (not a feature of the cummings era, despite the rhetoric) shows that he is unfit to govern.

    Even accepting all that, he did change a lot for the better. But he's now completely lost it.

  • Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Yes, that would absolutely be better. Whilst I respect your "none of this matters much" perspective - because in the grand scheme of things you're right - those of us who actually live here largely want good government. Honest government. Values. Ethics. The Rule of Law. Standards.

    The current government has none of those, and brings this country into disrepute on the world stage. I would take *any* of the previous Tory governments over this one because though I disagreed with most of their policies they were honest.

    This is about who we are first and foremost. Party politics can take care of itself once we're agreed on the basics.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
  • If the Mail has noticed that the BJocracy has shat on the SCons, things are bad. Of course the Westminster SCon contingency, Ross aside, has remained notably silent. Does this count as a civil war?


    The Moggster still has one fan of BJ's up here - the fawning lickspittle David Duguid. He is so enamoured with being sacked as a minister and having his constituency passed over for major energy schemes that he still sings Peppa's praises.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084

    Sandpit said:

    Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.

    I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.

    He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.

    When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.

    I see where you're coming from, but the issue is that Boris never learns. He's making the same sort of unforced errors he has throughout his life, due to the same character flaws. I see little chance of him learning from his recent mistakes and becoming the colossus he is in his own mind.

    He is mortally wounded, and I can't see a way back for him. The Conservative Party would be best to get rid and move on.
    Yes, he isn’t going to change.

    His charm and bluster have worked for him in the past - remarkably, when you think what he’s got away with - but it’s easier eye to eye with one boss (and even then, he got sacked twice). As PM he doesn’t have a boss to persuade - he has hundreds of them all around him, and by extension all of us. Which is a different proposition altogether, and one he hasn’t risen to or applied any thought to how it requires a different approach.

    Read most senior political memoirs and it is notable how much attention they pay to scenario planning, trying to think ahead, predict the moves and lines of their opponents, work through the ‘what ifs’ and have their responses ready.

    Johnson does none at all, simply relying on being able to wing everything, as he has got away with ever since the days of missing homework.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    The problem there is that the so-called "green crap" is not crap.

    It was interesting yesteday listening to the boss of Centrica on R4 demanding a series of measures that would save lots of money for Centrica, and the talking head not skewering him on it.

    Equally this AM we have had a representative of the baking industry demanding that the sky is about to fall in, and the BBC R4 presenter not even putting in context by demanding what the extra cost would be on the finished product, whether a loaf of sliced break or a Vegan Sausage Roll.

    Electricity to make a loaf in a bread machine is about 5-7p at todays post-doubling electricity prices.

    Useless media.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,529
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    They’re going to have to anyway.

    Regardless its going to be a lot more expensive in future to fight climate change.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 1,251
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    Unfortunately for the government we aren't quite at the point where people can be 'nudged' in to paying the rising energy bills without complaint.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    MattW said:

    Taz said:
    That's interesting. This is M&S changing the name. Crazy decision by M&S imo; it is a northern product originally and the North generally does not like BS. The name is not offensive, any more than having "small" as a shirt size or "mini" as a car. Guilt by association for words only works in a handful of cases.

    I thought Midget Gems was a brand from a company called Maynards owned or at least marketed by Cadbury, but perhaps it has become a generic?

    I recall a vehicle called the MG Midget, which I rather fancied owning at one stage of my life. However, as a two seater soft-top it wasn't really practical in industrial Lancashire so I bought a Mini instead.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    edited January 13
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh well, looks like I’m still in a very small minority when it comes to the PM.

    I don’t have any particular like for the guy, have met several sales people with similar personalities over the years and know not to trust them as far as I can throw them. He was in the right place at the right time in 2019 though, and added many Conservative seats in traditionally Labour areas.

    He wouldn’t have been many people’s choice to handle a pandemic, but the vaccine rollout was brilliant and in recent times he’s avoided imposing restrictions that were put in place elsewhere.

    When the LotO calls directly for the PM to resign, and he doesn’t, that makes Starmer look weak. All the attacks at PMQs will have done is strengthened his position, even if it’s only on a temporary basis.

    I see where you're coming from, but the issue is that Boris never learns. He's making the same sort of unforced errors he has throughout his life, due to the same character flaws. I see little chance of him learning from his recent mistakes and becoming the colossus he is in his own mind.

    He is mortally wounded, and I can't see a way back for him. The Conservative Party would be best to get rid and move on.
    Yes, he isn’t going to change.

    His charm and bluster have worked for him in the past - remarkably, when you think what he’s got away with - but it’s easier eye to eye with one boss (and even then, he got sacked twice). As PM he doesn’t have a boss to persuade - he has hundreds of them all around him, and by extension all of us. Which is a different proposition altogether, and one he hasn’t risen to or applied any thought to how it requires a different approach.

    Read most senior political memoirs and it is notable how much attention they pay to scenario planning, trying to think ahead, predict the moves and lines of their opponents, work through the ‘what ifs’ and have their responses ready.

    Johnson does none at all, simply relying on being able to wing everything, as he has got away with ever since the days of missing homework.
    The Eton schoolmasters (I assume) who indulged Johnson over his homework did him no favours in the longer term. That he was 'affronted' by 'only' achieving a Second at Oxford should have been a warning ng to all around him.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,690
    Humbug.

    Backed Starmer at 7 to be next PM a day or two ago, now he's over 9.

    *sighs*
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    edited January 13
    jonny83 said:

    Nursing and midwifery leaders have urged Sajid Javid to delay the introduction of compulsory Covid jabs for NHS staff and said the controversial policy amounted to “self-sabotage”.

    Significantly, the NHS Confederation, which represents hospital trusts in England, made clear it believed that the policy is being introduced at undue haste

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/12/sajid-javid-urged-to-delay-mandatory-jabs-for-nhs-staff-in-england

    The thing is just kicking the can down the road won't change anything. Those working for the NHS, who have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, and yet still aren't jabbed over a year after they could, aren't just going to do so in a few weeks time.

    NHS workers have had far longer than care home staff to get the bloody jab.

    We have 10,000 staff across 5 hospitals at our trust. I would estimate that you are looking at 800-1,000 at our Trust either not vaccinated or partially vaccinated (yes some had their 1st jab only, not their second).

    Redeployment or termination will be the options and neither are attractive options to Trusts or the individuals themselves.

    I think the mandatory vaccination status coupled with an exodus of staff leaving the NHS because of burnout once things start to settle down and difficulty to recruit new staff means tough times are ahead
    Yes, it is going to be a problem, particularly in certain sectors where cover is already not possible. Midwifery may well be the worst, and not really able to stop the work from coming in. There is a curious distrust of doctors in some sections of midwifery

    Personally, I would exempt those with proven antibodies, as their immunity is not very different to the vaccinated.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    The problem there is that the so-called "green crap" is not crap.

    It was interesting yesteday listening to the boss of Centrica on R4 demanding a series of measures that would save lots of money for Centrica, and the talking head not skewering him on it.

    Equally this AM we have had a representative of the baking industry demanding that the sky is about to fall in, and the BBC R4 presenter not even putting in context by demanding what the extra cost would be on the finished product, whether a loaf of sliced break or a Vegan Sausage Roll.

    Electricity to make a loaf in a bread machine is about 5-7p at todays post-doubling electricity prices.

    Useless media.
    But it’s all very complicated.

    Back on topic, it’s why the party matter has finished the PM.

    Everyone can understand it. Everyone can relate to it. Everyone (ex the decapitated, obvs) can watch the PM giving his answers and we all know he is still telling a pack of lies. No intermediary of expertise or explanation or political campaigning is needed for anyone to get the message.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    Man who lives in petro-state opposes "Green crap".

    Now there's a surprise.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    Man who lives in petro-state opposes "Green crap".

    Now there's a surprise.
    :D

    Although to be fair, my particular country is doing more than anywhere else in the region to develop an economy not based around oil, and has invested heavily in solar and nuclear.

    We notice prices rising too, it now costs me £40 to fill up the car.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,690
    Dr. Foxy, do you think people will be delighted at green levies (or whatever name they're given) driving up energy costs significantly?
  • IanB2 said:

    Lol, on Vanilla the lead story comes up as “Tories drop 28%” - now that would be dramatic!

    At the very start of the pandemic, the Conservatives got a couple of 55's from Opinium.

    So very nearly.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    Man who lives in petro-state opposes "Green crap".

    Now there's a surprise.
    :D

    Although to be fair, my particular country is doing more than anywhere else in the region to develop an economy not based around oil, and has invested heavily in solar and nuclear.

    We notice prices rising too, it now costs me £40 to fill up the car.
    Where are you going to drive to, from Dubai?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661

    Dr. Foxy, do you think people will be delighted at green levies (or whatever name they're given) driving up energy costs significantly?

    No. It is however essential that climate change is tackled by all nations and peoples of the world. The alternative is not a good outcome for the human race.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    edited January 13

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    They’re going to have to anyway.

    Regardless its going to be a lot more expensive in future to fight climate change.
    Disagree on the cost of green.

    £100 a month is about 25% of what it costs to keep one small dog, and most people seem to be able to afford that everywhere.
    https://www.pdsa.org.uk/pet-help-and-advice/looking-after-your-pet/puppies-dogs/the-cost-of-owning-a-dog

    And the "green taxes" are only £12 a month.

    Don't forget that the costs of "green" electricity are now below those of 'fossil' electricity, and that there is a significant amount of extra capacity coming on stream this year *, plus the repair of the interconnector damaged by fire last year. Which will help to puncture this bubble.

    Which will make it quite a lot less expensive to deal with the energy market bubble at a relatively low cost, and claiming the political benefit. But Boris is such a short-sighted dilettante that he will miss this one too.

    * I make this about 5% extra of UK electricity demand being supplied from renewables in the current year - 1.5GW from a normal demand of approx 30GW.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,152
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    Man who lives in petro-state opposes "Green crap".

    Now there's a surprise.
    :D

    Although to be fair, my particular country is doing more than anywhere else in the region to develop an economy not based around oil, and has invested heavily in solar and nuclear.

    We notice prices rising too, it now costs me £40 to fill up the car.
    Where are you going to drive to, from Dubai?
    Jebel Hafeet is a great road. I've cycled it. I did 285W all the way up in 39deg and felt distinctly unwell after.
  • I think the need to replace Boris is rapidly approaching 100%. Yesterday's "I'm sorry ... But I didn't realise it was a party" apology/non-apology was so fake and unheartfelt that it really seems to have cut through and made matters worse.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    As people who were around last night may have seen, I had a small spat with someone.

    While I’ve never made a particular secret of my identity this individual chose to highlight the fact that he knew some of my family in the real world.

    That really doesn’t sit well with me and, frankly, doesn’t fit with the culture of this place which - to my mind - has always operated on “Chatham house rules”.

    So it’s time for me to say goodbye.

    Have fun and play nice. I shall miss the wit and insight.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,690
    Dr. Foxy, the green levy isn't applying to all nations and peoples of the world.

    On-topic: is the PM's wife likely to egg him on to stay or persuade him to leave? That may be the key determining factor in how intransigent the buffoon decides* to be.

    *Or 'is decided'.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    The problem there is that the so-called "green crap" is not crap.

    It was interesting yesteday listening to the boss of Centrica on R4 demanding a series of measures that would save lots of money for Centrica, and the talking head not skewering him on it.

    Equally this AM we have had a representative of the baking industry demanding that the sky is about to fall in, and the BBC R4 presenter not even putting in context by demanding what the extra cost would be on the finished product, whether a loaf of sliced break or a Vegan Sausage Roll.

    Electricity to make a loaf in a bread machine is about 5-7p at todays post-doubling electricity prices.

    Useless media.
    Whatever to happened to actual journalism, rather than opinion-based ‘news’ and unchallenged vested interests?

    An industry that’s been badly shown up in the past couple of years.
    In the case of the Beeb, it has been stretched too thin, and the website turned into a collection of fluffy bunny and diversity bingo stories.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    Foxy said:

    Dr. Foxy, do you think people will be delighted at green levies (or whatever name they're given) driving up energy costs significantly?

    No. It is however essential that climate change is tackled by all nations and peoples of the world. The alternative is not a good outcome for the human race.
    I am however pessimistic about this. There are too many that won't change, and would rather carry on, even when the consequences are already affecting us.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    edited January 13
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    Man who lives in petro-state opposes "Green crap".

    Now there's a surprise.
    :D

    Although to be fair, my particular country is doing more than anywhere else in the region to develop an economy not based around oil, and has invested heavily in solar and nuclear.

    We notice prices rising too, it now costs me £40 to fill up the car.
    Where are you going to drive to, from Dubai?
    It’s actually quite a big place. The city is long and thin, and linked with fast roads. My 20 minute journey to work in the morning is 30km, and local trips can be 50 or 60km. If I’m going to Abu Dhabi, Ras al Khaimah or Fujairah, that’s 150km or so away, and a weekend away in Muscat (before the pandemic) was close to 1000km all in. My wife’s car is seven years old, and has a quarter of a million km on it!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589
    Scott_xP said:

    JUST IN: Australian Open draw has been postponed amid uncertainty over Novak Djokovic’s status https://trib.al/33eUR5W (via AP) https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1481485123094818816/photo/1

    Can now get 3 on him with Bf with stake back if he doesn't start the tournament.

    BF do not say, however, how they define starting the tournament. First match played, first match Djokovic plays, or first round draw??
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,152

    Dr. Foxy, do you think people will be delighted at green levies (or whatever name they're given) driving up energy costs significantly?

    We should "sit tight and assess".
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 3,395
    edited January 13
    By the way just catching up on the politics. So much for my theory that Rees Mogg would be the one to hand Johnson the revolver. What a charlatan!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589

    Nursing and midwifery leaders have urged Sajid Javid to delay the introduction of compulsory Covid jabs for NHS staff and said the controversial policy amounted to “self-sabotage”.

    Significantly, the NHS Confederation, which represents hospital trusts in England, made clear it believed that the policy is being introduced at undue haste

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/12/sajid-javid-urged-to-delay-mandatory-jabs-for-nhs-staff-in-england

    The thing is just kicking the can down the road won't change anything. Those working for the NHS, who have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, and yet still aren't jabbed over a year after they could, aren't just going to do so in a few weeks time.

    NHS workers have had far longer than care home staff to get the bloody jab.

    It is self-sabotage. And is it needed? With Omicron we could very well get out of this without needing this policy against the unvaccinated anyway. Those opposed to this should argue against it in these practical terms rather than from moral positions.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,589
    Foxy said:

    Dr. Foxy, do you think people will be delighted at green levies (or whatever name they're given) driving up energy costs significantly?

    No. It is however essential that climate change is tackled by all nations and peoples of the world. The alternative is not a good outcome for the human race.
    "For the human race" - Ah I see.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    moonshine said:

    By the way just catching up on the politics. So much for my theory that Rees Mogg would be the one to hand Johnson the revolver. What a charlatan!

    His comments on Newsnight have given the Tories in Scotland a big problem, if the clown doesn't go reasonably soon.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262
    Stocky said:

    Nursing and midwifery leaders have urged Sajid Javid to delay the introduction of compulsory Covid jabs for NHS staff and said the controversial policy amounted to “self-sabotage”.

    Significantly, the NHS Confederation, which represents hospital trusts in England, made clear it believed that the policy is being introduced at undue haste

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/12/sajid-javid-urged-to-delay-mandatory-jabs-for-nhs-staff-in-england

    The thing is just kicking the can down the road won't change anything. Those working for the NHS, who have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, and yet still aren't jabbed over a year after they could, aren't just going to do so in a few weeks time.

    NHS workers have had far longer than care home staff to get the bloody jab.

    It is self-sabotage. And is it needed? With Omicron we could very well get out of this without needing this policy against the unvaccinated anyway. Those opposed to this should argue against it in these practical terms rather than from moral positions.
    I suspect the worry is what comes after omicron - if something does and it results in more serious illnesses than omicron does then we have a problem,
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,762
    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Dr. Foxy, do you think people will be delighted at green levies (or whatever name they're given) driving up energy costs significantly?

    No. It is however essential that climate change is tackled by all nations and peoples of the world. The alternative is not a good outcome for the human race.
    "For the human race" - Ah I see.
    Meanwhile, China, India and Russia are laughing at the West self-imploding.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,926
    Charles said:

    As people who were around last night may have seen, I had a small spat with someone.

    While I’ve never made a particular secret of my identity this individual chose to highlight the fact that he knew some of my family in the real world.

    That really doesn’t sit well with me and, frankly, doesn’t fit with the culture of this place which - to my mind - has always operated on “Chatham house rules”.

    So it’s time for me to say goodbye.

    Have fun and play nice. I shall miss the wit and insight.

    I hope you reconsider, you would be much missed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691

    Future candidate for POTUS....

    A Rhodes Scholar who won a coveted scholarship at Oxford after claiming she overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care has been accused of lying to officials and is in fact the daughter of a radiologist who went to private school.

    Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, describes herself as a 'queer, first generation, low income' student at The University of Pennsylvania. In 2020, she was given a scholarship to go to Oxford after dazzling the Rhodes Trust with her story of how she overcame welfare, an abusive mother and the foster care system.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394333/Rhodes-Scholar-claimed-abused-accused-making-up.html

    Cannot remember the man's name right now, but Tony Curtis played him in the movie. Started out wanting to be a Catholic brother, then pretends to be one, then graduates to the priesthood, gets busted, moved on to impersonating doctor in the Canadian navy (becoming a hero in the process), then a reforming prison warden in Texas. And he was good at all of these jobs, until he either lost his cool, or circumstances got the better of him.

    It was a disease, a mental condition. Sounds like this young woman has something similar. Person of considerable intelligence and talent, who is unable to cope with their reality to some significant degree. And - most unlike most of us - actually does something about it, by creating a better one for themselves. As long as they can keep all the spinning plates in the air, that is.

    Sound familiar?

    PLUS she and #45 share the same alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania.

    Ben Franklin must be proud?
    Jeffrey Archer (once a Tory MP) also afflicted with this syndrome
    What syndromes that then? Bit disappointed in all three of you to be honest. 🤨 none of you have a clue what’s really gone on here. The expensive school says what? Proof she came from stable and loving household? Where’s the proof of family accepting of her sexuality? School is school at the end of the day from perspective of child.

    I read it as a sad story. That she’s been victimised, and that’s got to stop! I hope it works out for her.

    How so? I'm skeptical. I read that as being at least an equal probability that the "victim" is actually an abuser or a fantasist, and I perhaps feel nore sympathy for her mother. As soon as anyone, such as the Rhodes Trust, starts asking reasonable questions they get blamed. The next Dolezal?

    But if funding schemes set themselves up to be exploited, then they will be exploited.

    Fake abuse narratives of various sorts is a growth industry imo.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991
    Charles said:

    As people who were around last night may have seen, I had a small spat with someone.

    While I’ve never made a particular secret of my identity this individual chose to highlight the fact that he knew some of my family in the real world.

    That really doesn’t sit well with me and, frankly, doesn’t fit with the culture of this place which - to my mind - has always operated on “Chatham house rules”.

    So it’s time for me to say goodbye.

    Have fun and play nice. I shall miss the wit and insight.

    Personally I do not know who you are, and don't care either way. I have always found you courteous, civil and insightful and not at all boastful. This place will be poorer without you, I hope you reconsider.

    The person you had a spat with seems to enjoy getting into arguments with people. I generally try to ignore him and never respond to him. Life is too short.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991

    Charles said:

    As people who were around last night may have seen, I had a small spat with someone.

    While I’ve never made a particular secret of my identity this individual chose to highlight the fact that he knew some of my family in the real world.

    That really doesn’t sit well with me and, frankly, doesn’t fit with the culture of this place which - to my mind - has always operated on “Chatham house rules”.

    So it’s time for me to say goodbye.

    Have fun and play nice. I shall miss the wit and insight.

    Please don't go - why should you have to depart? Make the other person go!
    Absolutely, especially when that other person just seems to delight in picking pointless arguments and baiting people.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,072
    IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    By the way just catching up on the politics. So much for my theory that Rees Mogg would be the one to hand Johnson the revolver. What a charlatan!

    His comments on Newsnight have given the Tories in Scotland a big problem, if the clown doesn't go reasonably soon.
    what did he say... missed that?
  • IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    By the way just catching up on the politics. So much for my theory that Rees Mogg would be the one to hand Johnson the revolver. What a charlatan!

    His comments on Newsnight have given the Tories in Scotland a big problem, if the clown doesn't go reasonably soon.
    DRoss and most of his colleagues look at the PM, the polls and the forthcoming May local elections and think "uh oh". So set out a principled position before yesterday's sorrynotsorry and followed through with it.

    On one hand that should give them an element of protection from the electorate. But BJ continues to suck and now Lord Mogg says that Scotland and Scottish MPs and the leader of the party in Scotland are "lightweight".

    In the short term how does DRoss try and form a compact with the electorate to save May's elections? What can he say / do? And what does it mean for the medium and long term - a divorce between the parties either side of the wall?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,926
    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Dr. Foxy, do you think people will be delighted at green levies (or whatever name they're given) driving up energy costs significantly?

    No. It is however essential that climate change is tackled by all nations and peoples of the world. The alternative is not a good outcome for the human race.
    "For the human race" - Ah I see.
    Meanwhile, China, India and Russia are laughing at the West self-imploding.
    China is doing a lot itself to address climate change. India should be as it faces large parts of its territory becoming uninhabitable in the next century. Russia is a gangster state in terminal decline. The West is doing the right thing on climate change, but not enough.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691

    Sandpit said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    Dr. Foxy, do you think people will be delighted at green levies (or whatever name they're given) driving up energy costs significantly?

    No. It is however essential that climate change is tackled by all nations and peoples of the world. The alternative is not a good outcome for the human race.
    "For the human race" - Ah I see.
    Meanwhile, China, India and Russia are laughing at the West self-imploding.
    China is doing a lot itself to address climate change. India should be as it faces large parts of its territory becoming uninhabitable in the next century. Russia is a gangster state in terminal decline. The West is doing the right thing on climate change, but not enough.
    Can you define "enough"?
  • IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    By the way just catching up on the politics. So much for my theory that Rees Mogg would be the one to hand Johnson the revolver. What a charlatan!

    His comments on Newsnight have given the Tories in Scotland a big problem, if the clown doesn't go reasonably soon.
    what did he say... missed that?
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1481405891979010054
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,991
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    Even if Bozo survives this and leads the Tories into the next GE the stench surrounding him will once again come to the fore when the opposition hammer the point home that you can’t trust a word he says and any election promises are likely to be broken .

    The best thing for Labour is he limps on to the GE , the best thing for the country however is for Bozo to depart.

    To be replaced by a ‘proper’ conservative, willing to drop the ‘green crap’ and cut public spending to balance the budget? Be careful what you wish for…
    Cutting public spending wont retain the red wall.

    And i’m willing to bet the “green crap” is popular in the wealthy lib dem targeted blue wall.

    Doesn’t sound like a winning electoral strategy.
    I think it’s starting to dawn on people, that the persuit of a decarbonised economy comes at a high price. Even the wealthy South East isn’t full of people who can easily stump up another £100 a *month* in energy bills.
    Exactly. Support for this will soon diminish when people start to pay the bills and it is fine for wealthy middle class posters here to say we have to do it. They can afford to pay it.

    Ultimately we have got to keep using fossil fuels until we can fully transition to renewables and they can deliver 100% of our growing energy needs all year round. That will not be for a very long time either. So impoverishing further the poor is not going to help.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,690
    Mr. Stocky, aye.

    Driving away healthcare professionals is dumb generally and especially unwise during a pandemic. What's the benefit?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,443
    edited January 13

    IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    By the way just catching up on the politics. So much for my theory that Rees Mogg would be the one to hand Johnson the revolver. What a charlatan!

    His comments on Newsnight have given the Tories in Scotland a big problem, if the clown doesn't go reasonably soon.
    DRoss and most of his colleagues look at the PM, the polls and the forthcoming May local elections and think "uh oh". So set out a principled position before yesterday's sorrynotsorry and followed through with it.

    On one hand that should give them an element of protection from the electorate. But BJ continues to suck and now Lord Mogg says that Scotland and Scottish MPs and the leader of the party in Scotland are "lightweight".

    In the short term how does DRoss try and form a compact with the electorate to save May's elections? What can he say / do? And what does it mean for the medium and long term - a divorce between the parties either side of the wall?
    And yet if they split - who would take the Scottish Tories seriously? Both HYUFD and Mr R-M are already dissing them; they have given up on them already.

    What is Mr Ross going to do without the money and assets? Bearing in mind a lot of members and voters will hop ship to the SLDs and Ms Ballantyne's mob rather than vote for Unionist Party 2.0 - which really, really has an unhappy name/connotations in Scotland.

    What is Mr Ross going to tell voters? "That bunch in London are a big golden turd like an Edinburgh hotel and I want Scotland to stick to them and do whatever they say."
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,152

    Charles said:

    As people who were around last night may have seen, I had a small spat with someone.

    While I’ve never made a particular secret of my identity this individual chose to highlight the fact that he knew some of my family in the real world.

    That really doesn’t sit well with me and, frankly, doesn’t fit with the culture of this place which - to my mind - has always operated on “Chatham house rules”.

    So it’s time for me to say goodbye.

    Have fun and play nice. I shall miss the wit and insight.

    I hope you reconsider, you would be much missed.
    He probably needs another 3-4 people asking him to stay before the reverse flounce is on.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474
    - “Douglas Ross has always been quite a lightweight figure.”

    Who said that?

    Nicola Sturgeon?
    Anas Sarwar?
    Patrick Harvie?
    Michelle Ballantyne?

    Nope. It was fellow Conservative, cabinet minister Jacob Rees-Mogg. In a BBC interview no less.

    Who needs enemies when you’ve got friends like that?

    In a “lightweight” competition, Rees-Mogg wins hands down.
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