Richard Frediani @BBCFrediani · 1h Still waiting to find out if a Minister will turn out for the Government at 7.30am on #BBCBreakfast on Wednesday? Lots of questions about Downing Street parties. The chair is waiting to be filled… Labour’s @AngelaRayner and Lib Dem leader @EdwardJDavey already confirmed.
The important questions you need to push Ed, about cladding and smart motorway fiasco are in my post in this thread. If you could clarify the libdem position on cultivating and modifying pigs for human transplants that would be helpful too. Thanx.
Is the pig modding thing controversial? Animal welfare or discriminatory vs non-pork religions?
It’s an ethical question isn’t it, like The Island with Scarlett Johansson. Would it be wrong to farm humans in this way, cloned, bred, reared and modified to supply strong healthy organs to humans? But right to do the same with other animals?
Not to me it isn't. Bacon yes, cloned hearts no? Don't see it.
But then I also never had much of a problem with hunting mammalian vermin with packs of evil trained killer dogs shock horror, so prob not best person to ask.
Richard Frediani @BBCFrediani · 1h Still waiting to find out if a Minister will turn out for the Government at 7.30am on #BBCBreakfast on Wednesday? Lots of questions about Downing Street parties. The chair is waiting to be filled… Labour’s @AngelaRayner and Lib Dem leader @EdwardJDavey already confirmed.
The important questions you need to push Ed, about cladding and smart motorway fiasco are in my post in this thread. If you could clarify the libdem position on cultivating and modifying pigs for human transplants that would be helpful too. Thanx.
Is the pig modding thing controversial? Animal welfare or discriminatory vs non-pork religions?
It’s an ethical question isn’t it, like The Island with Scarlett Johansson. Would it be wrong to farm humans in this way, cloned, bred, reared and modified to supply strong healthy organs to humans? But right to do the same with other animals?
Farming pigs for meat is widely accepted while farming humans for meat is generally frowned on, I think that transfers straightforwardly across to this.
Darren Grimes @darrengrimes_ · 3h My vote for Boris was the proudest and surest I’d ever cast. Communities like my own would have their vote for Brexit respected and finally receive the attention they deserve. I’m afraid Boris appears to have taken that golden opportunity for granted. It is a truly tragic shame.
"Grimes grew up in a single-parent household in Consett, County Durham, England.[2] He is openly gay."
The degree of contempt and loathing this inspires in any right-thinking patriot is not even up for debate, but I thought openly expressing it was kinda deprecated these days?
sarahknapton @sarahknapton · 2h It’s quite extraordinary that scientists thought it likely Covid-19 evolved in human tissue in a lab, yet kept quiet about it
"Extraordinary" doesn't really cover it. This virus has killed ~20 million people and is still killing them. It has decimated the world economy.
And yet the people we rely on to tell us about this stuff, to help us, the scientists, lied and lied again about its probable origins. They ALLEGEDLY enabled con artists like Daszak to get away with, well, a kind of murder?
It is the greatest scientific scandal of our times, maybe of any time
Darren Grimes @darrengrimes_ · 3h My vote for Boris was the proudest and surest I’d ever cast. Communities like my own would have their vote for Brexit respected and finally receive the attention they deserve. I’m afraid Boris appears to have taken that golden opportunity for granted. It is a truly tragic shame.
Grimes was really once a staunchly pro-EU Lib Dem activist? Wow. I haven't followed his career particularly closely but naturally assumed he was a UKIP boy since short trousers.
I for one am completely gobsmacked, confuzzled, amazed, discombobulated and generally knocked-dahn-with-a-fevver that it turns out the fucking virus FUCKING LIKELY CAME FROM THE FUCKING LAB and all the major scientists thought this was probably true from the off, but they decided to cover it up
I mean, you know. Who coulda guessed that. Really. What a SURPRISE
Does anyone actually think that it didn't come from the lab nowadays?
Of PB-ers @kinabalu for sure, and a couple of others
Meh, I'm not sure. Haven't read enough about it , but don't have the visceral reaction some people have to the idea.
I think there is a lot of crossover between these people and those who questioned if it really was the Russians who did Salisbury (certainly among my friends). It's an anti western instinct.
The Russians did Litvinenko. And foot and mouth came from a lab. So perhaps?
Darren Grimes @darrengrimes_ · 3h My vote for Boris was the proudest and surest I’d ever cast. Communities like my own would have their vote for Brexit respected and finally receive the attention they deserve. I’m afraid Boris appears to have taken that golden opportunity for granted. It is a truly tragic shame.
"Grimes grew up in a single-parent household in Consett, County Durham, England.[2] He is openly gay."
The degree of contempt and loathing this inspires in any right-thinking patriot is not even up for debate, but I thought openly expressing it was kinda deprecated these days?
Are you implying his identity alone protects him from criticism?
I for one am completely gobsmacked, confuzzled, amazed, discombobulated and generally knocked-dahn-with-a-fevver that it turns out the fucking virus FUCKING LIKELY CAME FROM THE FUCKING LAB and all the major scientists thought this was probably true from the off, but they decided to cover it up
I mean, you know. Who coulda guessed that. Really. What a SURPRISE
Does anyone actually think that it didn't come from the lab nowadays?
Of PB-ers @kinabalu for sure, and a couple of others
Meh, I'm not sure. Haven't read enough about it , but don't have the visceral reaction some people have to the idea.
I think there is a lot of crossover between these people and those who questioned if it really was the Russians who did Salisbury (certainly among my friends). It's an anti western instinct.
The Russians did Litvinenko. And foot and mouth came from a lab. So perhaps?
It doesn't even have to be malicious, just an accidental escape of a virus they were studying.
Excellent header @Cyclefree captures the true stupidity/self inflicted/self entitled nature of the whole situation.
I was particularly taken by the parallels between us and his ex-wifes.
The depressing thing is how this behaviour empowers and enables others.
During the whole pandemic I have been amazed how compliant people have been, and found it quite warming in a funny sort of way. I like the idea of people understanding the greater good and generally following rules where they can.
What I find amazing is people could be so stupid to do this in a 'work' setting. This wouldn't be acceptable in any of the gov places I've worked or banks/major orgs. It doesn't pass the "would this look ok if it was on the front of the daily mail" test.
I wonder if this is just part the 'normal' political cycle of people realising the Tory's are also incompetent so we might as well try Labour (at least they aren't openly nasty).
Final thought, my Tory voting mum really hates Boris + Sunak as he has been splashing money left right and centre - which as a liberal sort of chap amuses me know end.
Andrew Male @Andr6wMale · 8h Maybe it needs to be repeated that I was not at my wife's bedside when she died. I was allowed to watch her die on the NHS equivalent of a Zoom call.
As I said. People are beginning to process the trauma. It wasn't having to wear a mask in Tesco. That was a minor irritation. They are looking to assign blame.
Yep, sceptic that I am about great British this and that I still believe that there's a deep strand of stoicism in the British make up. That involved avoiding histrionics about masks etc and largely nursing grief quietly, but BJ and his ghastly antics just couldn't resist poking the bear.
Darren Grimes @darrengrimes_ · 3h My vote for Boris was the proudest and surest I’d ever cast. Communities like my own would have their vote for Brexit respected and finally receive the attention they deserve. I’m afraid Boris appears to have taken that golden opportunity for granted. It is a truly tragic shame.
Grimes was really once a staunchly pro-EU Lib Dem activist? Wow. I haven't followed his career particularly closely but naturally assumed he was a UKIP boy since short trousers.
Grifter. Being a right wing boor has been profitable for a decade. But fashions change. And will again.
Darren Grimes @darrengrimes_ · 3h My vote for Boris was the proudest and surest I’d ever cast. Communities like my own would have their vote for Brexit respected and finally receive the attention they deserve. I’m afraid Boris appears to have taken that golden opportunity for granted. It is a truly tragic shame.
"Grimes grew up in a single-parent household in Consett, County Durham, England.[2] He is openly gay."
The degree of contempt and loathing this inspires in any right-thinking patriot is not even up for debate, but I thought openly expressing it was kinda deprecated these days?
Are you implying his identity alone protects him from criticism?
If you are lazy enough to post, effectively, YEBBUT WIKIPEDIA, you are leaving it to the judgment of the reader to decide which bit of wikipedia you dislike, surely? Mebbe Mr Palmer doesn't like faggots. I didn't find Grimes's bio interesting enough to learn anything else about him.
Darren Grimes @darrengrimes_ · 3h My vote for Boris was the proudest and surest I’d ever cast. Communities like my own would have their vote for Brexit respected and finally receive the attention they deserve. I’m afraid Boris appears to have taken that golden opportunity for granted. It is a truly tragic shame.
"Grimes grew up in a single-parent household in Consett, County Durham, England.[2] He is openly gay."
The degree of contempt and loathing this inspires in any right-thinking patriot is not even up for debate, but I thought openly expressing it was kinda deprecated these days?
Are you implying his identity alone protects him from criticism?
If you are lazy enough to post, effectively, YEBBUT WIKIPEDIA, you are leaving it to the judgment of the reader to decide which bit of wikipedia you dislike, surely? Mebbe Mr Palmer doesn't like faggots. I didn't find Grimes's bio interesting enough to learn anything else about him.
Well. I couldn't give a monkeys for any of that. He's made a profit and a career out of being unpleasant. That's plenty enough for me.
‘It’s not terminal yet - there’s still room for humility and a heartfelt apology
‘We’re f***ed unless we resolve it. Everyone knows this thing happened
‘PMQs will be agonising’
I don't think there is, though. There was when the first party news broke, but there's now two classes of issue: 1. parties and 2. lying about them. He is toast.
Richard Frediani @BBCFrediani · 1h Still waiting to find out if a Minister will turn out for the Government at 7.30am on #BBCBreakfast on Wednesday? Lots of questions about Downing Street parties. The chair is waiting to be filled… Labour’s @AngelaRayner and Lib Dem leader @EdwardJDavey already confirmed.
The important questions you need to push Ed, about cladding and smart motorway fiasco are in my post in this thread. If you could clarify the libdem position on cultivating and modifying pigs for human transplants that would be helpful too. Thanx.
If you think one iota of that matters as of today's revelations about Johnson and Downing Street then I humbly suggest you haven't a fecking clue about politics.
Oh dear. You’ve had a like.
This is a Conservative Party crisis, why should Labour or Libdems help them out? Their role in politics is to exploit this for themselves is it not? Did you not notice, as the Minister was speaking in commons defending Boris today, Labour were already targeting his constituents with what he was saying! What’s wrong with that? And the Conservative MPs and Leadership hopefuls don’t even have to say anything to be damaged by this, just their silence and inaction is corrosive enough over the coming weeks.
And you are saying Labour have no choice but, to quote one poster “go in for the kill like jaws” and destroy the windfall they are gaining from this? Well I don’t think you understand politics, so it’s a mutual position.
Maybe you are seeing this only through your own self interest, not 360 degrees of self interest as you need to to understand politics? Where it’s not in interest of opposition to solve crisis in their opponents. This is a Conservative Party crisis. It falls on the Conservatives to act now in that, as MPs are the ones with the guillotine mechanism. In the meantime those on government payroll can resign (none have yet). It’s fair opposition seek to exploit this for themselves until the Conservatives act and solve this crisis.
Excellent header @Cyclefree captures the true stupidity/self inflicted/self entitled nature of the whole situation.
I was particularly taken by the parallels between us and his ex-wifes.
The depressing thing is how this behaviour empowers and enables others.
During the whole pandemic I have been amazed how compliant people have been, and found it quite warming in a funny sort of way. I like the idea of people understanding the greater good and generally following rules where they can.
What I find amazing is people could be so stupid to do this in a 'work' setting. This wouldn't be acceptable in any of the gov places I've worked or banks/major orgs. It doesn't pass the "would this look ok if it was on the front of the daily mail" test.
I wonder if this is just part the 'normal' political cycle of people realising the Tory's are also incompetent so we might as well try Labour (at least they aren't openly nasty).
Final thought, my Tory voting mum really hates Boris + Sunak as he has been splashing money left right and centre - which as a liberal sort of chap amuses me know end.
MrB
What do you vote yourself MrBristol? My friend Snooks in her constituency reckons Thangham Debenham’s going to lose her seat to the greens, how possible does this seem to you? It’s something like a 60-1 bet if we get on it now with £50.
Interesting to see a few lurkers, infrequent posters on here tonight. Could come up with a PB-index for cut through based just on that.
Yes. Good to see Mr Bristol’s on here?
I do read the discussion pretty religiously, but keep posts low.
My personal bell weather is to tune into itv news and see the crossover with newsnight.
Interesting political drama, I assume Labour might be best served by Boris staying, the question is does that also serve potential future PMs as well. Let Boris be filled with the anger, trauma, upset and blame - then cast aside.
Finally thought before bed would be a shout out for whoever is leaking this, the timing is very impressive - a lull in the news, tennis star situation sorted, then this and all very targeted. There must be a whole host of these possible stories but finding the one that catches the moment + mood without leaking it all takes some doing. Rather reminds me of the Snowdon leaking.
In 2020 many of the various holidays and feast days fell conveniently on a Friday or on a weekend.
I'm curious as to how that is different to any other year ?
Bank holidays are always on Fridays or Mondays.
I'm thinking of VE Day and Robbie Burns day - which fell on a Saturday, for instance. There were a number of long weekends like that where Daughter had plans for special events etc to maximise revenue. I remember her telling me that she was looking forward to planning all these events because having got her first year under her belt she could really push the boat out in the second.
Alas ....
Thanks.
But Burns Night is in January so wouldn't have been affected by covid in 2020.
An example. Easter was late so better weather. The VE Day weekend - gorgeous weather - could have been a great earner etc. Hospitality people are always looking ahead to plan events, see how to encourage people to come to them etc. and the frustration of seeing a gorgeous spring and early summer be wasted was palpable.
She knew perfectly well that people were drinking in their gardens and probably breaking rules. They could get away with it. But she couldn't. And now we learn that the people at the top were just blatantly ignoring all the rules.
Sure we need to do the right thing regardless. But, really, why if all that happens is that you get shafted and others get the benefits, the juicy contracts, the fat pensions, the opportunities. It is emblematic of an approach which is wrong.
And I - a lawyer who has tried all my life to do the right thing and teach one of the more entitled sectors to do the right thing - now find it increasingly difficult to keep on saying this. It's cynical. It's despairing. It's corrosive. But it's inevitable when those at the top behave in this way.
May I respond to your header? While I agree with much of it, I'm bothered by your penultimate paragraph:
What I care about that is that the one lesson to be taken from all this is this: in this country right now you’re a mug if you try and do the right thing. You just get taken for a fool. Your hard work doesn’t matter. Your sacrifices don’t matter. When all the fuss has died down, when these here today/gone tomorrow politicians have departed the stage, this is what will be remembered. Why trust any replacement? They will do the same, probably have done the same, it’s just we have yet to find out about it.
If I may say so, this is the politics of despair. You're saying "they're all the same", but I think this cynicism is corrosive. I really don't believe they're all the same. Boris is a one-off in this country. Under different governance, 'doing the right thing' would reap rewards. What you're saying is not too far removed from the mantra that all politicians (and by extension governments) are corrupt and self-serving. I don't believe this to be the case, and such beliefs can lead down a sticky path where faith in democracy is undermined, as is possibly evident in the USA.
The qualification there is “in this country right now”. I don’t believe for a moment that Cyclefree is advocating a politics of despair - rather pointing out that that’s where this government is taking us.
If Johnson remains in power, then it’s not just a “one-off” politician, it’s his entire party.
I guess it's the "why trust any replacement?" I was reacting to. That sounded like any replacement in the future, not just a Tory successor to Boris.
Sunak and the rest knew of this and stayed quiet. So to my mind they are blameworthy too.
As for Labour will they be any better? You only have to look at the Opposition they inflicted on us under Corbyn or what they did when in power or the number of Labour MPs done for fraud over their expenses to realise that a sense of self-entitlement and contempt for voters is not limited to one party.
I do not advocate despair. But I do feel it. And I don't feel particularly hopeful, frankly. Starmer may be better than Boris but, Jesus, what a low bar that is!
The parties are bad but minor. But look at everything else - the unnecessary Coronavirus Act, the attacks on the judiciary, on refugees, on those with dual nationality, on the right to protest, on the HRA, the defence of a useless Met Commissioner etc. Will Labour really improve matters? I don't know. I really don't.
Interesting to see a few lurkers, infrequent posters on here tonight. Could come up with a PB-index for cut through based just on that.
Yes. Good to see Mr Bristol’s on here?
I do read the discussion pretty religiously, but keep posts low.
My personal bell weather is to tune into itv news and see the crossover with newsnight.
Interesting political drama, I assume Labour might be best served by Boris staying, the question is does that also serve potential future PMs as well. Let Boris be filled with the anger, trauma, upset and blame - then cast aside.
Finally thought before bed would be a shout out for whoever is leaking this, the timing is very impressive - a lull in the news, tennis star situation sorted, then this and all very targeted. There must be a whole host of these possible stories but finding the one that catches the moment + mood without leaking it all takes some doing. Rather reminds me of the Snowdon leaking.
Night all,
MrB
Whatever a Snowdon leaking was, it’s probably before my time. But yes, the hollowing out and destroying Boris was very professional done as you say, and they will be turning all that skill on the opposition parties soon though once the vonk falls on Boris fat neck.
I think you have an original voice MrBristol, it’s good to hear it 👍🏻
I agree. I’m surprised myself how annoyed I am about what seems a comparatively minor transgression in objective terms.
Although as my wife noted this evening it’s their “let them eat cake” moment
I'm more annoyed at Boris frittering away a great big win, a lot of goodwill, an 80 seat majority, and probably his own job, with a series of such ridiculous unforced errors. Is it Long Covid destroying his brain? These are the actions of a clueless man, which he wasn't before - erratic, but never clueless
He has now ushered in the likelihood of a feeble Starmer-led Coalition government, hijacked by the trouble-making SNP, which is a recipe for more stagnation, division and relative decline. Brilliant, not
He's self-indulgent, doesn't do details and has a limited attention span.
Everyone connected with him knows about his flaws as well as his positive attributes.
In many ways he is like his hero Churchill.
But what Churchill had was an Alanbrooke and that's what Boris lacks.
Why ?
Did he feel he didn't need one ? Did he not want any constraints ? Is everyone else in Westminster some combination of self-serving schemer and fuckwit ?
"In many ways he is like his hero Churchill."
Name some.
Churchill was a fanatical details man, a masterful orator, a horseman and warrior, a hugely productive and disciplined writer and historian, and a marked non-wanker. He is also not Johnson's hero. Johnson's hero is Johnson, he pretends it is Churchill in the obviously not forlorn hope that exceptionally silly people will see some sort of fantastical resemblance between the two of them.
Was Churchill a fanatical details man ?
I've always had the opposite impression.
Certainly his career went from fuck-up to fuck-up eg Gallipoli and gold standard and the failure of Norway 1940 could be laid at his door as well but fortunately for Churchill brought down Chamberlain instead.
As someone famous said, Churchill was wrong about lots of things but right about the one thing that mattered most of all.
When writing history, Churchill visited battlefields and employed professional historians for research, so yes, he probably was a details man.
Excellent header @Cyclefree captures the true stupidity/self inflicted/self entitled nature of the whole situation.
I was particularly taken by the parallels between us and his ex-wifes.
The depressing thing is how this behaviour empowers and enables others.
During the whole pandemic I have been amazed how compliant people have been, and found it quite warming in a funny sort of way. I like the idea of people understanding the greater good and generally following rules where they can.
What I find amazing is people could be so stupid to do this in a 'work' setting. This wouldn't be acceptable in any of the gov places I've worked or banks/major orgs. It doesn't pass the "would this look ok if it was on the front of the daily mail" test.
I wonder if this is just part the 'normal' political cycle of people realising the Tory's are also incompetent so we might as well try Labour (at least they aren't openly nasty).
Final thought, my Tory voting mum really hates Boris + Sunak as he has been splashing money left right and centre - which as a liberal sort of chap amuses me know end.
MrB
What do you vote yourself MrBristol? My friend Snooks in her constituency reckons Thangham Debenham’s going to lose her seat to the greens, how possible does this seem to you? It’s something like a 60-1 bet if we get on it now with £50.
Wow, the Downing St staff having a drink outside after work, on a day when Bournemouth beach was crowded with day-trippers, is still leading the news. I’m clearly in a small minority here, in not giving a crap. It wasn’t at the height of “don’t leave your house”, it was when parks and beaches were busy.
So what else is happening right now, for which this is providing convenient distraction?
Brexit, as a political cause, is dead. As an administrative inconvenience, it will be with us for decades.
As the administrative inconveniences mount, so the political cause grows.
Brexit is alive and kicking...
We'll need to see rejoin polling at around 65% before a Labour government would have the nerve to try and take us back in. The EU would need to be convinced, too, that we're back in for good.
The only way to lock us in for good (which I agree the EU would want) is to demand euro membership. Would we ever pay that price?
Hmm
It’s a measure of Brexit’s deadness that you are even posing this question.
As it happens, I agree that Rejoin is not at all feasible, let alone euro-membership, but some sort of re-entry into the single market (Swiss style) seems a reasonably likely trajectory.
That will be the next step, to a EEA style deal. Then the realisation that we want a seat at the top table will become the motivating factor for patriotic Tories.
More wishful thinking Foxy. EEA or EFTA is certainly a possibility if, sadly, only a distant one. But rejoining seems to me to be a complete impossibility. Both the UK and the EU will have changed in ways that will make it unpalatable to both sides.
I think it's more likely than not that Britain will be back in the EEA in some form in the next decade. Full rejoining, on the other hand, looks very unlikely to me, for now.
It is the great trap for Rejoiners. If we are back in the EEA it becomes much harder to argue for all the political rubbish of full membership because we have the Single Market benefits.
True, but then getting back to close alignment, the benefits of the single market, free movement, pet passports, the customs Union etc. is 80% of the battle. Norway seems quite happy in such a position. While I would sign up to the ‘project’, the way in which the political side of the EU is currently configured and behaves was my only concern about remain, so I’d be prepared to wait.
I agree. I’m surprised myself how annoyed I am about what seems a comparatively minor transgression in objective terms.
Although as my wife noted this evening it’s their “let them eat cake” moment
I'm more annoyed at Boris frittering away a great big win, a lot of goodwill, an 80 seat majority, and probably his own job, with a series of such ridiculous unforced errors. Is it Long Covid destroying his brain? These are the actions of a clueless man, which he wasn't before - erratic, but never clueless
He has now ushered in the likelihood of a feeble Starmer-led Coalition government, hijacked by the trouble-making SNP, which is a recipe for more stagnation, division and relative decline. Brilliant, not
He's self-indulgent, doesn't do details and has a limited attention span.
Everyone connected with him knows about his flaws as well as his positive attributes.
In many ways he is like his hero Churchill.
But what Churchill had was an Alanbrooke and that's what Boris lacks.
Why ?
Did he feel he didn't need one ? Did he not want any constraints ? Is everyone else in Westminster some combination of self-serving schemer and fuckwit ?
"In many ways he is like his hero Churchill."
Name some.
Churchill was a fanatical details man, a masterful orator, a horseman and warrior, a hugely productive and disciplined writer and historian, and a marked non-wanker. He is also not Johnson's hero. Johnson's hero is Johnson, he pretends it is Churchill in the obviously not forlorn hope that exceptionally silly people will see some sort of fantastical resemblance between the two of them.
Was Churchill a fanatical details man ?
I've always had the opposite impression.
Certainly his career went from fuck-up to fuck-up eg Gallipoli and gold standard and the failure of Norway 1940 could be laid at his door as well but fortunately for Churchill brought down Chamberlain instead.
As someone famous said, Churchill was wrong about lots of things but right about the one thing that mattered most of all.
When writing history, Churchill visited battlefields and employed professional historians for research, so yes, he probably was a details man.
Darren Grimes @darrengrimes_ · 3h My vote for Boris was the proudest and surest I’d ever cast. Communities like my own would have their vote for Brexit respected and finally receive the attention they deserve. I’m afraid Boris appears to have taken that golden opportunity for granted. It is a truly tragic shame.
Silly idiot forgot to look at the clown’s track record.
Excellent header @Cyclefree captures the true stupidity/self inflicted/self entitled nature of the whole situation.
I was particularly taken by the parallels between us and his ex-wifes.
The depressing thing is how this behaviour empowers and enables others.
During the whole pandemic I have been amazed how compliant people have been, and found it quite warming in a funny sort of way. I like the idea of people understanding the greater good and generally following rules where they can.
What I find amazing is people could be so stupid to do this in a 'work' setting. This wouldn't be acceptable in any of the gov places I've worked or banks/major orgs. It doesn't pass the "would this look ok if it was on the front of the daily mail" test.
I wonder if this is just part the 'normal' political cycle of people realising the Tory's are also incompetent so we might as well try Labour (at least they aren't openly nasty).
Final thought, my Tory voting mum really hates Boris + Sunak as he has been splashing money left right and centre - which as a liberal sort of chap amuses me know end.
MrB
What do you vote yourself MrBristol? My friend Snooks in her constituency reckons Thangham Debenham’s going to lose her seat to the greens, how possible does this seem to you? It’s something like a 60-1 bet if we get on it now with £50.
Typically liberal with the odd leading of a vote for labour. My constituency is Bristol North West with Darren Jones (Labour) who I have been pretty impressed with.
I think 60-1 feels like there is some value there, but Labour do have an impressive margin to overturn so definitely a punt. For me it would come down to do people feel that the Tories are definitely going to lose, in which case people can afford to go green.
For the locals 16 of the 19 councillors are green and they are rolling out a congestion charge in June so that might have a impact (not sure which way at the moment)
A betting question back to yourself, if we assume that Boris might be off and any potential candidate needs to be whiter than white re parties and their presence at them. I wonder whether an analysis of their Twitter feeds/press releases around the offending dates might gleam an angle.
Excellent header @Cyclefree captures the true stupidity/self inflicted/self entitled nature of the whole situation.
I was particularly taken by the parallels between us and his ex-wifes.
The depressing thing is how this behaviour empowers and enables others.
During the whole pandemic I have been amazed how compliant people have been, and found it quite warming in a funny sort of way. I like the idea of people understanding the greater good and generally following rules where they can.
What I find amazing is people could be so stupid to do this in a 'work' setting. This wouldn't be acceptable in any of the gov places I've worked or banks/major orgs. It doesn't pass the "would this look ok if it was on the front of the daily mail" test.
I wonder if this is just part the 'normal' political cycle of people realising the Tory's are also incompetent so we might as well try Labour (at least they aren't openly nasty).
Final thought, my Tory voting mum really hates Boris + Sunak as he has been splashing money left right and centre - which as a liberal sort of chap amuses me know end.
MrB
What do you vote yourself MrBristol? My friend Snooks in her constituency reckons Thangham Debenham’s going to lose her seat to the greens, how possible does this seem to you? It’s something like a 60-1 bet if we get on it now with £50.
Typically liberal with the odd leading of a vote for labour. My constituency is Bristol North West with Darren Jones (Labour) who I have been pretty impressed with.
I think 60-1 feels like there is some value there, but Labour do have an impressive margin to overturn so definitely a punt. For me it would come down to do people feel that the Tories are definitely going to lose, in which case people can afford to go green.
For the locals 16 of the 19 councillors are green and they are rolling out a congestion charge in June so that might have a impact (not sure which way at the moment)
A betting question back to yourself, if we assume that Boris might be off and any potential candidate needs to be whiter than white re parties and their presence at them. I wonder whether an analysis of their Twitter feeds/press releases around the offending dates might gleam an angle.
Don't follow any MPs but it was just a thought.
The other relevant consideration is that I have seen no evidence that the Green Party is remotely capable of organising a parliamentary election campaign; they have neither the expertise nor the experience. Unless things are somehow different in Bristol.
Andrew Male @Andr6wMale · 8h Maybe it needs to be repeated that I was not at my wife's bedside when she died. I was allowed to watch her die on the NHS equivalent of a Zoom call.
As I said. People are beginning to process the trauma. It wasn't having to wear a mask in Tesco. That was a minor irritation. They are looking to assign blame.
I find this quite convincing an explanation. There's a huge risk for the Tories that the story about the pandemic now being created is that while Boris and the Tories partied and lied, the people of Britain died alone. Every heartbreak, every indignity, every bit of loss and suffering might end up being blamed on the hypocrisy in Downing Street.
There's some truth in the accusation that HMG made repeated mistakes that led to many avoidable deaths, but it's not fair to blame them completely - but often these narratives are overly simple and a bit unfair. Just ask Gordon Brown and Labour.
There's not yet a pithy one-liner to sum it all up, like, "There's no money left." Things will become irretrievably bad for the Tories if one is found.
Wow, the Downing St staff having a drink outside after work, on a day when Bournemouth beach was crowded with day-trippers, is still leading the news. I’m clearly in a small minority here, in not giving a crap. It wasn’t at the height of “don’t leave your house”, it was when parks and beaches were busy.
So what else is happening right now, for which this is providing convenient distraction?
There's the issue of breaking covid regulations which they had imposed on others and which many people were suffering under.
There's also the issue of the political stupidity of so doing and leaving evidence that they had done so.
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But then I also never had much of a problem with hunting mammalian vermin with packs of evil trained killer dogs shock horror, so prob not best person to ask.
The degree of contempt and loathing this inspires in any right-thinking patriot is not even up for debate, but I thought openly expressing it was kinda deprecated these days?
@sarahknapton
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2h
It’s quite extraordinary that scientists thought it likely Covid-19 evolved in human tissue in a lab, yet kept quiet about it
https://twitter.com/sarahknapton/status/1481025298674167811?s=20
"Extraordinary" doesn't really cover it. This virus has killed ~20 million people and is still killing them. It has decimated the world economy.
And yet the people we rely on to tell us about this stuff, to help us, the scientists, lied and lied again about its probable origins. They ALLEGEDLY enabled con artists like Daszak to get away with, well, a kind of murder?
It is the greatest scientific scandal of our times, maybe of any time
I think there is a lot of crossover between these people and those who questioned if it really was the Russians who did Salisbury (certainly among my friends). It's an anti western instinct.
The Russians did Litvinenko. And foot and mouth came from a lab. So perhaps?
I was particularly taken by the parallels between us and his ex-wifes.
The depressing thing is how this behaviour empowers and enables others.
During the whole pandemic I have been amazed how compliant people have been, and found it quite warming in a funny sort of way. I like the idea of people understanding the greater good and generally following rules where they can.
What I find amazing is people could be so stupid to do this in a 'work' setting. This wouldn't be acceptable in any of the gov places I've worked or banks/major orgs. It doesn't pass the "would this look ok if it was on the front of the daily mail" test.
I wonder if this is just part the 'normal' political cycle of people realising the Tory's are also incompetent so we might as well try Labour (at least they aren't openly nasty).
Final thought, my Tory voting mum really hates Boris + Sunak as he has been splashing money left right and centre - which as a liberal sort of chap amuses me know end.
MrB
But fashions change.
And will again.
At 150/1
Trading bet.
They never, ever give up.
He's made a profit and a career out of being unpleasant.
That's plenty enough for me.
Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
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1h
Exclusive:
Cabinet ministers tell Boris Johnson to apologise
‘It’s not terminal yet - there’s still room for humility and a heartfelt apology
‘We’re f***ed unless we resolve it. Everyone knows this thing happened
‘PMQs will be agonising’
This is a Conservative Party crisis, why should Labour or Libdems help them out? Their role in politics is to exploit this for themselves is it not? Did you not notice, as the Minister was speaking in commons defending Boris today, Labour were already targeting his constituents with what he was saying! What’s wrong with that? And the Conservative MPs and Leadership hopefuls don’t even have to say anything to be damaged by this, just their silence and inaction is corrosive enough over the coming weeks.
And you are saying Labour have no choice but, to quote one poster “go in for the kill like jaws” and destroy the windfall they are gaining from this? Well I don’t think you understand politics, so it’s a mutual position.
Maybe you are seeing this only through your own self interest, not 360 degrees of self interest as you need to to understand politics? Where it’s not in interest of opposition to solve crisis in their opponents. This is a Conservative Party crisis. It falls on the Conservatives to act now in that, as MPs are the ones with the guillotine mechanism. In the meantime those on government payroll can resign (none have yet). It’s fair opposition seek to exploit this for themselves until the Conservatives act and solve this crisis.
That’s the politics of this.
My personal bell weather is to tune into itv news and see the crossover with newsnight.
Interesting political drama, I assume Labour might be best served by Boris staying, the question is does that also serve potential future PMs as well. Let Boris be filled with the anger, trauma, upset and blame - then cast aside.
Finally thought before bed would be a shout out for whoever is leaking this, the timing is very impressive - a lull in the news, tennis star situation sorted, then this and all very targeted. There must be a whole host of these possible stories but finding the one that catches the moment + mood without leaking it all takes some doing. Rather reminds me of the Snowdon leaking.
Night all,
MrB
As for Labour will they be any better? You only have to look at the Opposition they inflicted on us under Corbyn or what they did when in power or the number of Labour MPs done for fraud over their expenses to realise that a sense of self-entitlement and contempt for voters is not limited to one party.
I do not advocate despair. But I do feel it. And I don't feel particularly hopeful, frankly. Starmer may be better than Boris but, Jesus, what a low bar that is!
The parties are bad but minor. But look at everything else - the unnecessary Coronavirus Act, the attacks on the judiciary, on refugees, on those with dual nationality, on the right to protest, on the HRA, the defence of a useless Met Commissioner etc. Will Labour really improve matters? I don't know. I really don't.
I think you have an original voice MrBristol, it’s good to hear it 👍🏻
When writing history, Churchill visited battlefields and employed professional historians for research, so yes, he probably was a details man.
So what else is happening right now, for which this is providing convenient distraction?
I think 60-1 feels like there is some value there, but Labour do have an impressive margin to overturn so definitely a punt. For me it would come down to do people feel that the Tories are definitely going to lose, in which case people can afford to go green.
For the locals 16 of the 19 councillors are green and they are rolling out a congestion charge in June so that might have a impact (not sure which way at the moment)
A betting question back to yourself, if we assume that Boris might be off and any potential candidate needs to be whiter than white re parties and their presence at them. I wonder whether an analysis of their Twitter feeds/press releases around the offending dates might gleam an angle.
Don't follow any MPs but it was just a thought.
There's some truth in the accusation that HMG made repeated mistakes that led to many avoidable deaths, but it's not fair to blame them completely - but often these narratives are overly simple and a bit unfair. Just ask Gordon Brown and Labour.
There's not yet a pithy one-liner to sum it all up, like, "There's no money left." Things will become irretrievably bad for the Tories if one is found.
There's also the issue of the political stupidity of so doing and leaving evidence that they had done so.