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Help keep PB going for another year – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    The difficulty here is that for Epstein to have been murdered the camera footage has to have been faked. Otherwise, it’s difficult to explain how access to actually kill him was achieved. Therefore, a conspiracy is needed to explain it.

    The fact that the two overworked guards who cocked up and failed to follow procedure have now in effect been given a slap on the wrist will lend weight to the idea that there is something fishy going on.

    Princes in the Tower is a bad counter example because a conspiracy theory is needed to explain how they were *not* murdered on Richard’s orders in July/August 1483 - either by their secret survival, or by somebody else gaining access to them.
    OK you got me there. Any theory which requires camera footage to be faked in 2017 can be laughed out of court, the technology doesn't exist. Dunno how you'd even start.
    You’re missing the point. The point is that faking the camera footage of an empty corridor requires a conspiracy. On the part of the camera operators, guards, technicians…

    And such conspiracies are explained by ‘conspiracy theories.’

    Doesn’t mean it’s impossible it happened. It’s just somewhat less likely than the obvious - that Epstein strangled himself and an awful lot of time was wasted and confusion caused by the guards trying to cover up that they were asleep on duty.
    Jeez. You really believe that? The single most important prisoner in the USA, meant to be on a constant suicide watch? The man whose trial could have destroyed the sitting American president and the former American president, and some of the most prominent lawyers in the USA, and some of the most prominent businessmen, plus, fuck it, a British prince? Who all flew on the "Lolita Express"?

    The guards just "fell asleep". The cameras were "accidentally turned off". My word. Such bad luck
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited December 2021

    Can someone remind me: Christina Pagel, is she on the physicus non grata list for the PB anti-lockdowners?

    Her thread is interesting if sombre. Safe to ignore or somehing to ponder?

    https://twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1476616293822390280?s=20

    Would have more weight if she hadn't called for lockdown and restrictions continually for the last 20 months. She has also wanted face masks in schools. She is not a teacher trying to teach kids.
    Her followers are for the most part sychophantic to a high degree. A psychologist would wonder if she gets off on the adulation.
    Ok thanks noted, and I saw @ydoethur's answer too.

    Just one minor point - even if she does get off on the adulation that does not necessarily invalidate her projections.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    The difficulty here is that for Epstein to have been murdered the camera footage has to have been faked. Otherwise, it’s difficult to explain how access to actually kill him was achieved. Therefore, a conspiracy is needed to explain it.

    The fact that the two overworked guards who cocked up and failed to follow procedure have now in effect been given a slap on the wrist will lend weight to the idea that there is something fishy going on.

    Princes in the Tower is a bad counter example because a conspiracy theory is needed to explain how they were *not* murdered on Richard’s orders in July/August 1483 - either by their secret survival, or by somebody else gaining access to them.
    OK you got me there. Any theory which requires camera footage to be faked in 2017 can be laughed out of court, the technology doesn't exist. Dunno how you'd even start.
    You’re missing the point. The point is that faking the camera footage of an empty corridor requires a conspiracy. On the part of the camera operators, guards, technicians…

    And such conspiracies are explained by ‘conspiracy theories.’

    Doesn’t mean it’s impossible it happened. It’s just somewhat less likely than the obvious - that Epstein strangled himself and an awful lot of time was wasted and confusion caused by the guards trying to cover up that they were asleep on duty.
    Jeez. You really believe that? The single most important prisoner in the USA, meant to be on a constant suicide watch? The man whose trial could have destroyed the sitting American president and the former American president, and some of the most prominent lawyers in the USA, and some of the most prominent businessmen, plus, fuck it, a British prince? Who all flew on the "Lolita Express"?

    The guards just "fell asleep". The cameras were "accidentally turned off". My word. Such bad luck
    The cameras were not turned off - and showed an empty corridor - and he was not on suicide watch. He had just been taken off it. Rather stupidly.

    And a guard on a fifth consecutive overtime shift plus one who had been on duty for twelve hours obviously would never fall asleep.

    Apart from that…

    Good night.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    Progress report: Christmas turkey finally finished before midnight deadline, Christmas pudding too. Cheese and Port still going.

    Happy New Year if I pass out before midnight!
  • BBC reporting from Carlisle's influx of Scots with an interview from a hotel manager saying half the central belt have arrived

    I think that is a 'wee' bit of an exaggeration

    Anyway, a happy new year to each and everyone, and on a personal note my wife has just received confirmation from a lifelong friend that he is safe in Colorado but all his neighbours properties have gone
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    The difficulty here is that for Epstein to have been murdered the camera footage has to have been faked. Otherwise, it’s difficult to explain how access to actually kill him was achieved. Therefore, a conspiracy is needed to explain it.

    The fact that the two overworked guards who cocked up and failed to follow procedure have now in effect been given a slap on the wrist will lend weight to the idea that there is something fishy going on.

    Princes in the Tower is a bad counter example because a conspiracy theory is needed to explain how they were *not* murdered on Richard’s orders in July/August 1483 - either by their secret survival, or by somebody else gaining access to them.
    OK you got me there. Any theory which requires camera footage to be faked in 2017 can be laughed out of court, the technology doesn't exist. Dunno how you'd even start.
    You’re missing the point. The point is that faking the camera footage of an empty corridor requires a conspiracy. On the part of the camera operators, guards, technicians…

    And such conspiracies are explained by ‘conspiracy theories.’

    Doesn’t mean it’s impossible it happened. It’s just somewhat less likely than the obvious - that Epstein strangled himself and an awful lot of time was wasted and confusion caused by the guards trying to cover up that they were asleep on duty.
    Jeez. You really believe that? The single most important prisoner in the USA, meant to be on a constant suicide watch? The man whose trial could have destroyed the sitting American president and the former American president, and some of the most prominent lawyers in the USA, and some of the most prominent businessmen, plus, fuck it, a British prince? Who all flew on the "Lolita Express"?

    The guards just "fell asleep". The cameras were "accidentally turned off". My word. Such bad luck
    Yes, but it’s generally true that cockups are much more common than conspiracies, which is why people who are attracted by every passing conspiracy theory, like a flea to a dog’s arse, are mostly demonstrating their lack of critical faculties.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    I don't know. It would surely be surprising if it were much different to France's or the UK's?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    edited December 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    Omicron is so explosive that hard to believe they haven't got it. An anomaly of testing and reporting methinks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Happy New Year...

    Lib Dems set sights on Tory seats in south of England https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/31/lib-dems-tory-seats-south-of-england
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    The difficulty here is that for Epstein to have been murdered the camera footage has to have been faked. Otherwise, it’s difficult to explain how access to actually kill him was achieved. Therefore, a conspiracy is needed to explain it.

    The fact that the two overworked guards who cocked up and failed to follow procedure have now in effect been given a slap on the wrist will lend weight to the idea that there is something fishy going on.

    Princes in the Tower is a bad counter example because a conspiracy theory is needed to explain how they were *not* murdered on Richard’s orders in July/August 1483 - either by their secret survival, or by somebody else gaining access to them.
    OK you got me there. Any theory which requires camera footage to be faked in 2017 can be laughed out of court, the technology doesn't exist. Dunno how you'd even start.
    You’re missing the point. The point is that faking the camera footage of an empty corridor requires a conspiracy. On the part of the camera operators, guards, technicians…

    And such conspiracies are explained by ‘conspiracy theories.’

    Doesn’t mean it’s impossible it happened. It’s just somewhat less likely than the obvious - that Epstein strangled himself and an awful lot of time was wasted and confusion caused by the guards trying to cover up that they were asleep on duty.
    Jeez. You really believe that? The single most important prisoner in the USA, meant to be on a constant suicide watch? The man whose trial could have destroyed the sitting American president and the former American president, and some of the most prominent lawyers in the USA, and some of the most prominent businessmen, plus, fuck it, a British prince? Who all flew on the "Lolita Express"?

    The guards just "fell asleep". The cameras were "accidentally turned off". My word. Such bad luck
    Yes, but it’s generally true that cockups are much more common than conspiracies, which is why people who are attracted by every passing conspiracy theory, like a flea to a dog’s arse, are mostly demonstrating their lack of critical faculties.
    Don't worry, I have never confused you with a person blessed with "critical faculties".

    I confess I *have* occasionally mistaken you for a bleeding dog's arse, but I do my Christian best to overcome and ignore the obvious similarity
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188

    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    I don't know. It would surely be surprising if it were much different to France's or the UK's?
    Their cases are dropping though.

    Indicates one of a few things

    i. They are earlier into their omicron wave than the UK or France.
    ii. Veeery lagged reporting
    iii. A very extreme lockdown
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    The difficulty here is that for Epstein to have been murdered the camera footage has to have been faked. Otherwise, it’s difficult to explain how access to actually kill him was achieved. Therefore, a conspiracy is needed to explain it.

    The fact that the two overworked guards who cocked up and failed to follow procedure have now in effect been given a slap on the wrist will lend weight to the idea that there is something fishy going on.

    Princes in the Tower is a bad counter example because a conspiracy theory is needed to explain how they were *not* murdered on Richard’s orders in July/August 1483 - either by their secret survival, or by somebody else gaining access to them.
    OK you got me there. Any theory which requires camera footage to be faked in 2017 can be laughed out of court, the technology doesn't exist. Dunno how you'd even start.
    You’re missing the point. The point is that faking the camera footage of an empty corridor requires a conspiracy. On the part of the camera operators, guards, technicians…

    And such conspiracies are explained by ‘conspiracy theories.’

    Doesn’t mean it’s impossible it happened. It’s just somewhat less likely than the obvious - that Epstein strangled himself and an awful lot of time was wasted and confusion caused by the guards trying to cover up that they were asleep on duty.
    No they aren't. You need to think about what conspiracy theory means. Doesn't mean, a theory that there was a conspiracy. After all, conspiring to commit a crime, is a crime, in English law, and charges of conspiracy are not usually defended with the "this is just a conspiracy theory" argument. What "conspiracy theory" means, is a HUGE VIOLATION OF oCCAM'S RAZOR: can't be arsed to fix the capslock problem: either the Apollo missions went to the moon, or tens of thousands of NASA and other personnel got together to pretend they did.

    How difficult is it to fake footage of an empty corridor? You just transpose another bit of the 99% of the footage on that camera that genuinely shows an empty corridor. Boring plot device in any number of boring heist films. The answer is to have in shot a screen permanently showing CNN or whatever, but nobody seems to think of that.

    And my understanding is that you are wrong anyway, the cameras were - quite unaccountably and coincidentally - on the blink at the relevant time.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    I don't know. It would surely be surprising if it were much different to France's or the UK's?
    Their cases are dropping though.

    Indicates one of a few things

    i. They are earlier into their omicron wave than the UK or France.
    ii. Veeery lagged reporting
    iii. A very extreme lockdown
    iv They are very late into their omicron wave and delta has been waning.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    Omicron is so explosive that hard to believe they haven't got it. An anomaly of testing and reporting methinks.
    Yes. France has just reported 230,000 cases (a European record). It shares a long open border with Germany. Ditto Holland, Belgium, Switzerland, Denmark: which are all reporting tens of thousands of cases, each

    The idea that Germany has just "33,000" cases is fatuously absurd. Germany is under-reporting on a major scale. Tiny Ireland reported 20,000 cases today
  • dixiedean said:

    Youngest sent home from his bar job at 9 pm.
    Lack of customers.

    Scots revellers much enervated, they managed Preston last time out.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Just donated to keep this great site going.

    Happy new year, y’all.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Foxy said:

    Progress report: Christmas turkey finally finished before midnight deadline, Christmas pudding too. Cheese and Port still going.

    Happy New Year if I pass out before midnight!

    I've go to the stage where I can't wait for the (dry) January diet.

    In (some) previous years I have managed a lasting weight loss in the first quarter by building on a January diet so it would be good to shed a further couple of stones in Q1 2022.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    I don't know. It would surely be surprising if it were much different to France's or the UK's?
    Their cases are dropping though.

    Indicates one of a few things

    i. They are earlier into their omicron wave than the UK or France.
    ii. Veeery lagged reporting
    iii. A very extreme lockdown
    iv They are very late into their omicron wave and delta has been waning.
    Wrong.

    https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germanys-omicron-cases-jump-45-in-one-day/a-60280693
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2021
    Good news on gas prices, now ~£1.60/therm. Still about 3x this time last year, but down ~2/3rds from the recent high.
  • Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Toms said:

    2012 London fireworks: 2nd best to no one.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1yLRK2M8YQ

    The best fireworks display I ever went to was one at Alton Towers in around 1992. I *think* it was a staff-and-families only affair, and I got a ticket via a friend who had worked there in the summer. It was a beautiful autumn evening, clear skies, with the castle in the background. We stood by the lake, and the fireworks were coming from the other side. The noise from the explosions were so loud that they felt almost like a physical force. magnificent. It was not just the fireworks; it was the setting and atmosphere.

    Second best was a wedding I went to in Shropshire, where both sets of parents were millionaires. Both families tried to outdo the other, and one had to organise a fireworks display. It ended up being a half-hour professional job.

    I love fireworks.
    They used to do a firework competition over the lake near Brno, called Ignis Brunensis. I went one year, it was brilliant, if a bit poncy.

    The best one I ever went to was in Newcastle. They were celebrating the anniversary of Newcastle NSW, it was the middle of summer, over Exhibition Park I think. It was summer so light until late, they just made it loud. Very loud. The rich folk of Gosforth complained and they never did it again.

    The New Year's Eve fireworks by the Tyne Bridge can be good, both Newcastle and Gateshead slope significantly down to the River so it reverberates. London, in contrast, is relatively flat.
    You get good, cheap rifles from Brno still. It's also where Mendel studied his bees or whatever it was he studied. Sweet peas?
    It's quite a pleasant city (as are most Czech cities to be honest, although a Czech friend once warned me off Ostrava as a "shithole" ). It was a good base to explore the battlefield of Austerlitz.
    Olomouc is an undiscovered GEM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc



    It has a genuinely world class art gallery (Cranach, Van Dyck, Brueghel, etc etc) hidden in an aristo estate just out of town/. Poignantly, many of the best paintings come from the collection of Charles 1 of England, sold by Cromwell. They should be in London

    https://www.zamek-kromeriz.cz/en/tours/chateau-gallery/

    I have been to Olomouc, didn't do the art gallery as we were more into breweries and pubs (and a beer festival, in the castle grounds). It is a handsome city largely rebuilt by Maria Theresa. Had a kilo bacon knuckle at brewpub Moritz and thought I would explode.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited December 2021

    dixiedean said:

    Youngest sent home from his bar job at 9 pm.
    Lack of customers.

    Scots revellers much enervated, they managed Preston last time out.
    Yet ere the sword cool in the sheath
    Charlie will come again.

    ETA Sorry wrong pretender
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    I don't know. It would surely be surprising if it were much different to France's or the UK's?
    Their cases are dropping though.

    Indicates one of a few things

    i. They are earlier into their omicron wave than the UK or France.
    ii. Veeery lagged reporting
    iii. A very extreme lockdown
    iv They are very late into their omicron wave and delta has been waning.
    The Germans don't believe it either tbh. From what I've heard they are still primarily Delta. They are 2 to 3 weeks behind.
    But they don't have home LFT. You have to have a pharmacist or GP administer it. Plenty have been closed.
    Their new Health Minister, Lauterbach, has been sounding the alarm about lack of testing. He's an epidemiologist who has become quite a star.
    Here's an article from a few days back.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/27/germany-toughens-covid-restrictions-omicron-variant-takes-hold
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    I don't know. It would surely be surprising if it were much different to France's or the UK's?
    Their cases are dropping though.

    Indicates one of a few things

    i. They are earlier into their omicron wave than the UK or France.
    ii. Veeery lagged reporting
    iii. A very extreme lockdown
    iv They are very late into their omicron wave and delta has been waning.
    Wrong.

    https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germanys-omicron-cases-jump-45-in-one-day/a-60280693
    That could still mean they are very late into omi. A 45% jump from a low value could mean they are just starting.

    Worth noting also hat German case numbers have been on a steady decline since the beginning of December, during which time they have halved. Something odd going on.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How have the Germans managed to get their cases to come down so rapidly in the past month?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

    What's their current omicron/delta split ?
    I don't know. It would surely be surprising if it were much different to France's or the UK's?
    Their cases are dropping though.

    Indicates one of a few things

    i. They are earlier into their omicron wave than the UK or France.
    ii. Veeery lagged reporting
    iii. A very extreme lockdown
    iv They are very late into their omicron wave and delta has been waning.
    The Germans don't believe it either tbh. From what I've heard they are still primarily Delta. They are 2 to 3 weeks behind.
    But they don't have home LFT. You have to have a pharmacist or GP administer it. Plenty have been closed.
    Their new Health Minister, Lauterbach, has been sounding the alarm about lack of testing. He's an epidemiologist who has become quite a star.
    Here's an article from a few days back.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/27/germany-toughens-covid-restrictions-omicron-variant-takes-hold
    Thanks - that makes sense.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Foxy said:

    Progress report: Christmas turkey finally finished before midnight deadline, Christmas pudding too. Cheese and Port still going.

    Happy New Year if I pass out before midnight!

    I've go to the stage where I can't wait for the (dry) January diet.

    In (some) previous years I have managed a lasting weight loss in the first quarter by building on a January diet so it would be good to shed a further couple of stones in Q1 2022.
    I've been on salad and falafel for a couple of days , and teetotal for work, so ready to get stuck into the remaining leftovers tonight.
  • dixiedean said:

    Youngest sent home from his bar job at 9 pm.
    Lack of customers.

    Scots revellers much enervated, they managed Preston last time out.
    Derby, surely? Preston was the time before that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Toms said:

    2012 London fireworks: 2nd best to no one.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1yLRK2M8YQ

    The best fireworks display I ever went to was one at Alton Towers in around 1992. I *think* it was a staff-and-families only affair, and I got a ticket via a friend who had worked there in the summer. It was a beautiful autumn evening, clear skies, with the castle in the background. We stood by the lake, and the fireworks were coming from the other side. The noise from the explosions were so loud that they felt almost like a physical force. magnificent. It was not just the fireworks; it was the setting and atmosphere.

    Second best was a wedding I went to in Shropshire, where both sets of parents were millionaires. Both families tried to outdo the other, and one had to organise a fireworks display. It ended up being a half-hour professional job.

    I love fireworks.
    They used to do a firework competition over the lake near Brno, called Ignis Brunensis. I went one year, it was brilliant, if a bit poncy.

    The best one I ever went to was in Newcastle. They were celebrating the anniversary of Newcastle NSW, it was the middle of summer, over Exhibition Park I think. It was summer so light until late, they just made it loud. Very loud. The rich folk of Gosforth complained and they never did it again.

    The New Year's Eve fireworks by the Tyne Bridge can be good, both Newcastle and Gateshead slope significantly down to the River so it reverberates. London, in contrast, is relatively flat.
    You get good, cheap rifles from Brno still. It's also where Mendel studied his bees or whatever it was he studied. Sweet peas?
    It's quite a pleasant city (as are most Czech cities to be honest, although a Czech friend once warned me off Ostrava as a "shithole" ). It was a good base to explore the battlefield of Austerlitz.
    Olomouc is an undiscovered GEM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc



    It has a genuinely world class art gallery (Cranach, Van Dyck, Brueghel, etc etc) hidden in an aristo estate just out of town/. Poignantly, many of the best paintings come from the collection of Charles 1 of England, sold by Cromwell. They should be in London

    https://www.zamek-kromeriz.cz/en/tours/chateau-gallery/

    I have been to Olomouc, didn't do the art gallery as we were more into breweries and pubs (and a beer festival, in the castle grounds). It is a handsome city largely rebuilt by Maria Theresa. Had a kilo bacon knuckle at brewpub Moritz and thought I would explode.
    I went for a wedding, it was a few years after the Iron Curtain collapsed - the groom was a school friend, the bride Moravian. It was brilliant fun

    Yes it is a cracking town. What really impressed me was the fact they have a special "breakfast beer" - a beer designed to be drunk first thing in the morning. I don't even like beer but proper Czech beer is something special

    The food, er, not so much
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Can I just say a big thank you to the 53 PBers who have so far responded to the New Year appeal.

    Nae bother, and happy new year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Can I just say a big thank you to the 53 PBers who have so far responded to the New Year appeal.

    Will contribute in the morning when sober 😔
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Can I just say a big thank you to the 53 PBers who have so far responded to the New Year appeal.

    Happy New Year. Donated
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Arise Sir Tony :D
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    Can I just say a big thank you to the 53 PBers who have so far responded to the New Year appeal.

    Do intend to get it together and chip in.
    Thanks for all your hard work.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Shocked I am...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/31/billionaire-tory-donor-david-winton-harding-knighted-in-new-year-honours

    "David Winton Harding, who has been funding the Tories since 2006, was given the award for services to philanthropy."

    Now I may be being churlish here but if you are a billionaire just how much effort does it take to give away a few million quid here and there?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Pulpstar said:

    Arise Sir Tony :D

    Grade 1 trolling by Boris, there
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    Would you like to guess approximately how many conspiracy theorists identify themselves thus?
    You tell me what a conspiracy theorist is, and I will have a stab at answering that. I don't see that thinking Epstein was murdered, whether or not it is true, makes it as a conspiracy theory at all. Pretty much all murderers try to falsify the evidence against them. Are all charges of murder therefore conspiracy theories?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Pulpstar said:

    Arise Sir Tony :D

    Woolley: In the [civil] service, CMG stands for "Call Me God". And KCMG for "Kindly Call Me God".
    Hacker: What does GCMG stand for?
    Woolley (deadpan): "God Calls Me God".
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Toms said:

    2012 London fireworks: 2nd best to no one.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1yLRK2M8YQ

    The best fireworks display I ever went to was one at Alton Towers in around 1992. I *think* it was a staff-and-families only affair, and I got a ticket via a friend who had worked there in the summer. It was a beautiful autumn evening, clear skies, with the castle in the background. We stood by the lake, and the fireworks were coming from the other side. The noise from the explosions were so loud that they felt almost like a physical force. magnificent. It was not just the fireworks; it was the setting and atmosphere.

    Second best was a wedding I went to in Shropshire, where both sets of parents were millionaires. Both families tried to outdo the other, and one had to organise a fireworks display. It ended up being a half-hour professional job.

    I love fireworks.
    They used to do a firework competition over the lake near Brno, called Ignis Brunensis. I went one year, it was brilliant, if a bit poncy.

    The best one I ever went to was in Newcastle. They were celebrating the anniversary of Newcastle NSW, it was the middle of summer, over Exhibition Park I think. It was summer so light until late, they just made it loud. Very loud. The rich folk of Gosforth complained and they never did it again.

    The New Year's Eve fireworks by the Tyne Bridge can be good, both Newcastle and Gateshead slope significantly down to the River so it reverberates. London, in contrast, is relatively flat.
    You get good, cheap rifles from Brno still. It's also where Mendel studied his bees or whatever it was he studied. Sweet peas?
    It's quite a pleasant city (as are most Czech cities to be honest, although a Czech friend once warned me off Ostrava as a "shithole" ). It was a good base to explore the battlefield of Austerlitz.
    Olomouc is an undiscovered GEM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc



    It has a genuinely world class art gallery (Cranach, Van Dyck, Brueghel, etc etc) hidden in an aristo estate just out of town/. Poignantly, many of the best paintings come from the collection of Charles 1 of England, sold by Cromwell. They should be in London

    https://www.zamek-kromeriz.cz/en/tours/chateau-gallery/

    I have been to Olomouc, didn't do the art gallery as we were more into breweries and pubs (and a beer festival, in the castle grounds). It is a handsome city largely rebuilt by Maria Theresa. Had a kilo bacon knuckle at brewpub Moritz and thought I would explode.
    I went for a wedding, it was a few years after the Iron Curtain collapsed - the groom was a school friend, the bride Moravian. It was brilliant fun

    Yes it is a cracking town. What really impressed me was the fact they have a special "breakfast beer" - a beer designed to be drunk first thing in the morning. I don't even like beer but proper Czech beer is something special

    The food, er, not so much
    Czech food has probably improved a bit since then, but it is still a bit stodgy. I have eaten better in many other Eastern European countries. But the Czech beer culture is brilliant. Particularly as they now have some influences from the international craft beer scene. I have had some great desitkas (a lager ~5%) with a shitload of American hops. Or even a load of Žatec (Saaz) as they are supposed to be. You should try beer, it has as many challenging and eye-opening flavours as wine, if made properly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited December 2021
    pigeon said:

    2/2

    Even *IF* suppression does make a material difference then we may just be pushing a lot of the older booster recipients into the zone where vaccine effectiveness starts to decline and they need yet another jab: should the British outbreak conform to the South African model, i.e. a huge peak in cases followed by an equally rapid decline, then this may pose a greater risk to the hospitals yet paradoxically reduce the risk of serious harm to each vulnerable individual, simply by ensuring that their immune systems are better primed to confront the likelihood of infection.

    Finally, Omicron is not going to be the final variant, and the selective pressure on the virus to become ever more transmissible is enormous. Should a crippling hard lockdown prove to any significant degree effective in suppressing Omicron then it probably won't work on whatever comes after that anyway.

    You might say that of course I'm going to scrape together as many arguments as I can against lockdown because I'm anti-lockdown, and you would be right. But I'm anti-lockdown not because I've been against it on philosophical grounds from the outset, but because I believe that this method of managing the virus is both materially and socially unsustainable, and subject to the law of diminishing returns. Lockdowns, and restrictions more widely, are going to do progressively more damage to our socio-economic fabric every time they are used, in exchange for progressively less marginal benefit.

    We can't keep on using restrictions to manage the pandemic indefinitely, and the advent of Omicron seems like an appropriate moment at which to call time on crude and destructive measures. We should rely first on the vaccines, and second on a risk segmentation approach for doing our best to limit the spread of Omicron to the most vulnerable - that means prioritising testing for health and social care workers, care home residents and hospital patients, and rationing or ending it for the general population; and trying to throw a cordon sanitaire around elderly care homes and hospital departments caring for the most vulnerable categories of patients, rather than forcing the entire hospital system to continue to operate infection control protocols that limit its efficiency and capacity.

    +1


    TL:DR: we have to live with it, now. We have a new disease, and normal life brings greater risk: so be it
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Sir Tony B)
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Arise Sir Tony :D

    Grade 1 trolling by Boris, there
    I heard that Blair was to be admitted to the Order of the Garter. In which case, my understanding is that this is an award made by the Queen personally and not on the advice of the Government.
  • Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Arise Sir Tony :D

    Grade 1 trolling by Boris, there
    Nope, this honour is the choice of Her Majesty.

    Surprised she didn't give Andrew another gong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited December 2021

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Toms said:

    2012 London fireworks: 2nd best to no one.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1yLRK2M8YQ

    The best fireworks display I ever went to was one at Alton Towers in around 1992. I *think* it was a staff-and-families only affair, and I got a ticket via a friend who had worked there in the summer. It was a beautiful autumn evening, clear skies, with the castle in the background. We stood by the lake, and the fireworks were coming from the other side. The noise from the explosions were so loud that they felt almost like a physical force. magnificent. It was not just the fireworks; it was the setting and atmosphere.

    Second best was a wedding I went to in Shropshire, where both sets of parents were millionaires. Both families tried to outdo the other, and one had to organise a fireworks display. It ended up being a half-hour professional job.

    I love fireworks.
    They used to do a firework competition over the lake near Brno, called Ignis Brunensis. I went one year, it was brilliant, if a bit poncy.

    The best one I ever went to was in Newcastle. They were celebrating the anniversary of Newcastle NSW, it was the middle of summer, over Exhibition Park I think. It was summer so light until late, they just made it loud. Very loud. The rich folk of Gosforth complained and they never did it again.

    The New Year's Eve fireworks by the Tyne Bridge can be good, both Newcastle and Gateshead slope significantly down to the River so it reverberates. London, in contrast, is relatively flat.
    You get good, cheap rifles from Brno still. It's also where Mendel studied his bees or whatever it was he studied. Sweet peas?
    It's quite a pleasant city (as are most Czech cities to be honest, although a Czech friend once warned me off Ostrava as a "shithole" ). It was a good base to explore the battlefield of Austerlitz.
    Olomouc is an undiscovered GEM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc



    It has a genuinely world class art gallery (Cranach, Van Dyck, Brueghel, etc etc) hidden in an aristo estate just out of town/. Poignantly, many of the best paintings come from the collection of Charles 1 of England, sold by Cromwell. They should be in London

    https://www.zamek-kromeriz.cz/en/tours/chateau-gallery/

    I have been to Olomouc, didn't do the art gallery as we were more into breweries and pubs (and a beer festival, in the castle grounds). It is a handsome city largely rebuilt by Maria Theresa. Had a kilo bacon knuckle at brewpub Moritz and thought I would explode.
    I went for a wedding, it was a few years after the Iron Curtain collapsed - the groom was a school friend, the bride Moravian. It was brilliant fun

    Yes it is a cracking town. What really impressed me was the fact they have a special "breakfast beer" - a beer designed to be drunk first thing in the morning. I don't even like beer but proper Czech beer is something special

    The food, er, not so much
    Czech food has probably improved a bit since then, but it is still a bit stodgy. I have eaten better in many other Eastern European countries. But the Czech beer culture is brilliant. Particularly as they now have some influences from the international craft beer scene. I have had some great desitkas (a lager ~5%) with a shitload of American hops. Or even a load of Žatec (Saaz) as they are supposed to be. You should try beer, it has as many challenging and eye-opening flavours as wine, if made properly.
    I've been back many times since, the food has not notably improved. Perhaps a bit less sour/whipped cream?

    But it's a lovely little country, which punches far above its weight culturally, scenically, beerily. Funny people too. Like a kind of middle European Ireland

  • tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Arise Sir Tony :D

    Woolley: In the [civil] service, CMG stands for "Call Me God". And KCMG for "Kindly Call Me God".
    Hacker: What does GCMG stand for?
    Woolley (deadpan): "God Calls Me God".
    Cool to give Daniel Craig a CMG. Someone has a sense of humour.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Anyway, time to put this computer down and open the Champagne. Have a good night, and may the new year bring us all better fortune than the old.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,149
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    Would you like to guess approximately how many conspiracy theorists identify themselves thus?
    You tell me what a conspiracy theorist is, and I will have a stab at answering that. I don't see that thinking Epstein was murdered, whether or not it is true, makes it as a conspiracy theory at all. Pretty much all murderers try to falsify the evidence against them. Are all charges of murder therefore conspiracy theories?
    I have no idea whether Epstein was murdered or not.

    What I do know is that if I asked QAnon folks if they were conspiracy theorists, they'd say "no, we just look at all the evidence. Those people, the ones over there, they're crazy conspiracy theorists. You should listen to what they believe."

    So, somebody saying "I am not a conspiracy theorist" does not mean I think "hmmm.. that person isn't a conspiracy theorist."
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Toms said:

    2012 London fireworks: 2nd best to no one.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1yLRK2M8YQ

    The best fireworks display I ever went to was one at Alton Towers in around 1992. I *think* it was a staff-and-families only affair, and I got a ticket via a friend who had worked there in the summer. It was a beautiful autumn evening, clear skies, with the castle in the background. We stood by the lake, and the fireworks were coming from the other side. The noise from the explosions were so loud that they felt almost like a physical force. magnificent. It was not just the fireworks; it was the setting and atmosphere.

    Second best was a wedding I went to in Shropshire, where both sets of parents were millionaires. Both families tried to outdo the other, and one had to organise a fireworks display. It ended up being a half-hour professional job.

    I love fireworks.
    They used to do a firework competition over the lake near Brno, called Ignis Brunensis. I went one year, it was brilliant, if a bit poncy.

    The best one I ever went to was in Newcastle. They were celebrating the anniversary of Newcastle NSW, it was the middle of summer, over Exhibition Park I think. It was summer so light until late, they just made it loud. Very loud. The rich folk of Gosforth complained and they never did it again.

    The New Year's Eve fireworks by the Tyne Bridge can be good, both Newcastle and Gateshead slope significantly down to the River so it reverberates. London, in contrast, is relatively flat.
    You get good, cheap rifles from Brno still. It's also where Mendel studied his bees or whatever it was he studied. Sweet peas?
    It's quite a pleasant city (as are most Czech cities to be honest, although a Czech friend once warned me off Ostrava as a "shithole" ). It was a good base to explore the battlefield of Austerlitz.
    Olomouc is an undiscovered GEM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc



    It has a genuinely world class art gallery (Cranach, Van Dyck, Brueghel, etc etc) hidden in an aristo estate just out of town/. Poignantly, many of the best paintings come from the collection of Charles 1 of England, sold by Cromwell. They should be in London

    https://www.zamek-kromeriz.cz/en/tours/chateau-gallery/

    I have been to Olomouc, didn't do the art gallery as we were more into breweries and pubs (and a beer festival, in the castle grounds). It is a handsome city largely rebuilt by Maria Theresa. Had a kilo bacon knuckle at brewpub Moritz and thought I would explode.
    I went for a wedding, it was a few years after the Iron Curtain collapsed - the groom was a school friend, the bride Moravian. It was brilliant fun

    Yes it is a cracking town. What really impressed me was the fact they have a special "breakfast beer" - a beer designed to be drunk first thing in the morning. I don't even like beer but proper Czech beer is something special

    The food, er, not so much
    Czech food has probably improved a bit since then, but it is still a bit stodgy. I have eaten better in many other Eastern European countries. But the Czech beer culture is brilliant. Particularly as they now have some influences from the international craft beer scene. I have had some great desitkas (a lager ~5%) with a shitload of American hops. Or even a load of Žatec (Saaz) as they are supposed to be. You should try beer, it has as many challenging and eye-opening flavours as wine, if made properly.
    I've been back many times since, the food has not notably improved. Perhaps a bit less sour/whipped cream?

    But it's a lovely little country, which punches far above its weight culturally, scenically, beerily. Funny people too. Like a kind of middle European Ireland

    Mitteleuropa is great. All the Austro-Hungarian cities are brilliant, with the possible exception of Wien itself, which is still too far up its own arse. Have a plan to get drunk in Lviv, when it looks like a sensible thing to attempt.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited December 2021
    I had begun to wonder if any former PMs would get knighthoods or the like ever again, if the delay in giving one to Blair would mean none of his successors could without it looking political. I guess the wait was just to make him sweat a little.

    Or Her Majesty is looking at his premiership more fondly now.

    Edit: I see on wiki foreign royals get to be 'stranger knights' to the Order of the Garter. The monarchs of Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway, Spain get to be on there, plus former Emperor of Japan, but no love for the other monarchs out there? I can see that King Salman might be a controversial choice, but what has the King of Belgium done to be snubbed?
  • Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Arise Sir Tony :D

    Grade 1 trolling by Boris, there
    Blair's been KG'd so it is top trolling *of* Boris by HMQ.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Can I just say a big thank you to the 53 PBers who have so far responded to the New Year appeal.

    Does that include Leon and all his alter egos? If so, who is the other contributor?
    Only kidding. Happy New Year everyone!

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    Would you like to guess approximately how many conspiracy theorists identify themselves thus?
    You tell me what a conspiracy theorist is, and I will have a stab at answering that. I don't see that thinking Epstein was murdered, whether or not it is true, makes it as a conspiracy theory at all. Pretty much all murderers try to falsify the evidence against them. Are all charges of murder therefore conspiracy theories?
    I have no idea whether Epstein was murdered or not.

    What I do know is that if I asked QAnon folks if they were conspiracy theorists, they'd say "no, we just look at all the evidence. Those people, the ones over there, they're crazy conspiracy theorists. You should listen to what they believe."

    So, somebody saying "I am not a conspiracy theorist" does not mean I think "hmmm.. that person isn't a conspiracy theorist."
    But I am not Q anon folk. And anyway the same is true of serial necrophiles: they invariably (I assume) deny it when challenged, so we have to look for evidence elsewhere to see if they are or not. In the Epstein case, it is exceedingly rare for remand prisoners to be murdered, but it is also exceedingly rare for prisoners on suicide watch to nevertheless commit suicide. The only conspiracy alleged is that someone falsified some cctv footage to show an empty corridor, but how hard is it to do that? Look at virtually any murder case that ever happened. Ian Huntley frinstance burned his victims' clothes, drove the bodies 30 miles away and tried to set fire to them, got his girlfriend to lie to the police etc. Is it, and was it ever, a conspiracy theory to say that he did those things?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    pigeon said:

    2/2

    Even *IF* suppression does make a material difference then we may just be pushing a lot of the older booster recipients into the zone where vaccine effectiveness starts to decline and they need yet another jab: should the British outbreak conform to the South African model, i.e. a huge peak in cases followed by an equally rapid decline, then this may pose a greater risk to the hospitals yet paradoxically reduce the risk of serious harm to each vulnerable individual, simply by ensuring that their immune systems are better primed to confront the likelihood of infection.

    Finally, Omicron is not going to be the final variant, and the selective pressure on the virus to become ever more transmissible is enormous. Should a crippling hard lockdown prove to any significant degree effective in suppressing Omicron then it probably won't work on whatever comes after that anyway.

    You might say that of course I'm going to scrape together as many arguments as I can against lockdown because I'm anti-lockdown, and you would be right. But I'm anti-lockdown not because I've been against it on philosophical grounds from the outset, but because I believe that this method of managing the virus is both materially and socially unsustainable, and subject to the law of diminishing returns. Lockdowns, and restrictions more widely, are going to do progressively more damage to our socio-economic fabric every time they are used, in exchange for progressively less marginal benefit.

    We can't keep on using restrictions to manage the pandemic indefinitely, and the advent of Omicron seems like an appropriate moment at which to call time on crude and destructive measures. We should rely first on the vaccines, and second on a risk segmentation approach for doing our best to limit the spread of Omicron to the most vulnerable - that means prioritising testing for health and social care workers, care home residents and hospital patients, and rationing or ending it for the general population; and trying to throw a cordon sanitaire around elderly care homes and hospital departments caring for the most vulnerable categories of patients, rather than forcing the entire hospital system to continue to operate infection control protocols that limit its efficiency and capacity.

    I think this is the key bit. There were philosophical arguments from the outset, but that was not as compelling to most people in face of practicalities and weighing up the costs of inaction, so those concerns could be overlooked. It doesn't mean previous action was wrong necessarily, and the consistent anti lockdowners right all along. But the analysis has changed as the impact changed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    edited December 2021
    Arise Sir Tony Blair. The only Labour leader to have won a working majority since 1966.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    Would you like to guess approximately how many conspiracy theorists identify themselves thus?
    You tell me what a conspiracy theorist is, and I will have a stab at answering that. I don't see that thinking Epstein was murdered, whether or not it is true, makes it as a conspiracy theory at all. Pretty much all murderers try to falsify the evidence against them. Are all charges of murder therefore conspiracy theories?
    I have no idea whether Epstein was murdered or not.

    What I do know is that if I asked QAnon folks if they were conspiracy theorists, they'd say "no, we just look at all the evidence. Those people, the ones over there, they're crazy conspiracy theorists. You should listen to what they believe."

    So, somebody saying "I am not a conspiracy theorist" does not mean I think "hmmm.. that person isn't a conspiracy theorist."
    But I am not Q anon folk. And anyway the same is true of serial necrophiles: they invariably (I assume) deny it when challenged, so we have to look for evidence elsewhere to see if they are or not. In the Epstein case, it is exceedingly rare for remand prisoners to be murdered, but it is also exceedingly rare for prisoners on suicide watch to nevertheless commit suicide. The only conspiracy alleged is that someone falsified some cctv footage to show an empty corridor, but how hard is it to do that? Look at virtually any murder case that ever happened. Ian Huntley frinstance burned his victims' clothes, drove the bodies 30 miles away and tried to set fire to them, got his girlfriend to lie to the police etc. Is it, and was it ever, a conspiracy theory to say that he did those things?
    Yes, quite

    Middle class people like Robert are intellectually allergic to the idea of being associated with a perceived lower class phenomenon such as "conspiracy theories". They fear them as a taint, the mark of social leprosy, just as a Hampstead liberal fears being painted as a Brexiteer. Despite these irrational reactions, based on class insecurity, there is an entirely coherent philosophical argument for Brexit (even if you believe it is wrong) just as there is an entirely coherent evidential basis for many other so-called "conspiracy theories"

    "Lab Leak" and "Epstein was Murdered" are the two most prominent examples. Both completely plausible, yet both untouchable for a certain kind of vaguely insecure but educated westerner

    Those who would suppress these ideas have, with partial success, associated them with "Fake Moon Landings" and "Underground Pedo Labyrinths"

    It is a peculiar evolution and, I fear, a backwards step for the supposedly Enlightened West

    I hope we wise up soon. And on that cheering but challenging note, HAPPY NEW YEAR PB

    See you in 2022
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,149
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    Would you like to guess approximately how many conspiracy theorists identify themselves thus?
    You tell me what a conspiracy theorist is, and I will have a stab at answering that. I don't see that thinking Epstein was murdered, whether or not it is true, makes it as a conspiracy theory at all. Pretty much all murderers try to falsify the evidence against them. Are all charges of murder therefore conspiracy theories?
    I have no idea whether Epstein was murdered or not.

    What I do know is that if I asked QAnon folks if they were conspiracy theorists, they'd say "no, we just look at all the evidence. Those people, the ones over there, they're crazy conspiracy theorists. You should listen to what they believe."

    So, somebody saying "I am not a conspiracy theorist" does not mean I think "hmmm.. that person isn't a conspiracy theorist."
    But I am not Q anon folk. And anyway the same is true of serial necrophiles: they invariably (I assume) deny it when challenged, so we have to look for evidence elsewhere to see if they are or not. In the Epstein case, it is exceedingly rare for remand prisoners to be murdered, but it is also exceedingly rare for prisoners on suicide watch to nevertheless commit suicide. The only conspiracy alleged is that someone falsified some cctv footage to show an empty corridor, but how hard is it to do that? Look at virtually any murder case that ever happened. Ian Huntley frinstance burned his victims' clothes, drove the bodies 30 miles away and tried to set fire to them, got his girlfriend to lie to the police etc. Is it, and was it ever, a conspiracy theory to say that he did those things?
    Again.

    You are addressing a point I'm not making.

    I have no idea whether or not you are a conspiricy theorist. You may be. You may not be. It is of no interest to me.

    My point is an incredibly narrow one.

    Conspiracy theorists (like murderers and serial necrophiles) will deny being conspiracy theorists. So your statement that you are not a conspiracy theorist contains zero useful information.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited December 2021
    What are the PB orders of knighthood and what are the price tags, I mean philanthropic donations, that might lead to someone being awarded such a title?

    I feel Sir kle4 has a nice ring to it.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,940
    edited December 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    Would you like to guess approximately how many conspiracy theorists identify themselves thus?
    You tell me what a conspiracy theorist is, and I will have a stab at answering that. I don't see that thinking Epstein was murdered, whether or not it is true, makes it as a conspiracy theory at all. Pretty much all murderers try to falsify the evidence against them. Are all charges of murder therefore conspiracy theories?
    I have no idea whether Epstein was murdered or not.

    What I do know is that if I asked QAnon folks if they were conspiracy theorists, they'd say "no, we just look at all the evidence. Those people, the ones over there, they're crazy conspiracy theorists. You should listen to what they believe."

    So, somebody saying "I am not a conspiracy theorist" does not mean I think "hmmm.. that person isn't a conspiracy theorist."
    But I am not Q anon folk. And anyway the same is true of serial necrophiles: they invariably (I assume) deny it when challenged, so we have to look for evidence elsewhere to see if they are or not. In the Epstein case, it is exceedingly rare for remand prisoners to be murdered, but it is also exceedingly rare for prisoners on suicide watch to nevertheless commit suicide. The only conspiracy alleged is that someone falsified some cctv footage to show an empty corridor, but how hard is it to do that? Look at virtually any murder case that ever happened. Ian Huntley frinstance burned his victims' clothes, drove the bodies 30 miles away and tried to set fire to them, got his girlfriend to lie to the police etc. Is it, and was it ever, a conspiracy theory to say that he did those things?
    Surely this is an occam's razor thing.

    Does the probability that powerful people who wanted Epstein silenced had him bumped off outweigh the probability that he decided one night to go, "oh well, enough's enough".

    The "conspiracy" side can be upweighted by the number of people who have mysteriously died in prison under similar circumstances, usually before testifying.
  • kyf_100 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    Would you like to guess approximately how many conspiracy theorists identify themselves thus?
    You tell me what a conspiracy theorist is, and I will have a stab at answering that. I don't see that thinking Epstein was murdered, whether or not it is true, makes it as a conspiracy theory at all. Pretty much all murderers try to falsify the evidence against them. Are all charges of murder therefore conspiracy theories?
    I have no idea whether Epstein was murdered or not.

    What I do know is that if I asked QAnon folks if they were conspiracy theorists, they'd say "no, we just look at all the evidence. Those people, the ones over there, they're crazy conspiracy theorists. You should listen to what they believe."

    So, somebody saying "I am not a conspiracy theorist" does not mean I think "hmmm.. that person isn't a conspiracy theorist."
    But I am not Q anon folk. And anyway the same is true of serial necrophiles: they invariably (I assume) deny it when challenged, so we have to look for evidence elsewhere to see if they are or not. In the Epstein case, it is exceedingly rare for remand prisoners to be murdered, but it is also exceedingly rare for prisoners on suicide watch to nevertheless commit suicide. The only conspiracy alleged is that someone falsified some cctv footage to show an empty corridor, but how hard is it to do that? Look at virtually any murder case that ever happened. Ian Huntley frinstance burned his victims' clothes, drove the bodies 30 miles away and tried to set fire to them, got his girlfriend to lie to the police etc. Is it, and was it ever, a conspiracy theory to say that he did those things?
    Surely this is an occam's razor thing.

    Does the probability that powerful people who wanted Epstein silenced had him bumped off outweigh the probability that he decided one night to go, "oh well, enough's enough".

    The "conspiracy" side can be upweighted by the number of people who have mysteriously died in prison under similar circumstances, usually before testifying.
    I'm not sure Occam's Razor applies when two equally plausible options are available.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    A new thread for the new year.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    kyf_100 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    Would you like to guess approximately how many conspiracy theorists identify themselves thus?
    You tell me what a conspiracy theorist is, and I will have a stab at answering that. I don't see that thinking Epstein was murdered, whether or not it is true, makes it as a conspiracy theory at all. Pretty much all murderers try to falsify the evidence against them. Are all charges of murder therefore conspiracy theories?
    I have no idea whether Epstein was murdered or not.

    What I do know is that if I asked QAnon folks if they were conspiracy theorists, they'd say "no, we just look at all the evidence. Those people, the ones over there, they're crazy conspiracy theorists. You should listen to what they believe."

    So, somebody saying "I am not a conspiracy theorist" does not mean I think "hmmm.. that person isn't a conspiracy theorist."
    But I am not Q anon folk. And anyway the same is true of serial necrophiles: they invariably (I assume) deny it when challenged, so we have to look for evidence elsewhere to see if they are or not. In the Epstein case, it is exceedingly rare for remand prisoners to be murdered, but it is also exceedingly rare for prisoners on suicide watch to nevertheless commit suicide. The only conspiracy alleged is that someone falsified some cctv footage to show an empty corridor, but how hard is it to do that? Look at virtually any murder case that ever happened. Ian Huntley frinstance burned his victims' clothes, drove the bodies 30 miles away and tried to set fire to them, got his girlfriend to lie to the police etc. Is it, and was it ever, a conspiracy theory to say that he did those things?
    Surely this is an occam's razor thing.

    Does the probability that powerful people who wanted Epstein silenced had him bumped off outweigh the probability that he decided one night to go, "oh well, enough's enough".

    The "conspiracy" side can be upweighted by the number of people who have mysteriously died in prison under similar circumstances, usually before testifying.
    I'm not sure Occam's Razor applies when two equally plausible options are available.
    Gillette Twin blade?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited January 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Conspiracy theorists are actually going to go mad:

    Jeffrey Epstein: Charges dropped against prison guards who falsified records
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59839724

    Are believers in the Gunpowder Plot conspiracy theorists?
    Which bit of it? The efforts of Fawkes, the inspiration of Percy or the involvement of Salisbury?
    Well, there's three separate conspiracy theories right there. My point is 1. I am not a conspiracy theorist (except for not falling for the NASA moon landing hoaxes obv) 2. I think on balance Epstein was murdered 3. It gives a free pass to people who want to murder people like Epstein if those suggesting that that is what they have done have to get over a "conspiracy theory" hurdle. The princes in the Tower were either murdered, or not. Why should one case vs the other be hampered by a silly label?
    The difficulty here is that for Epstein to have been murdered the camera footage has to have been faked. Otherwise, it’s difficult to explain how access to actually kill him was achieved. Therefore, a conspiracy is needed to explain it.

    The fact that the two overworked guards who cocked up and failed to follow procedure have now in effect been given a slap on the wrist will lend weight to the idea that there is something fishy going on.

    Princes in the Tower is a bad counter example because a conspiracy theory is needed to explain how they were *not* murdered on Richard’s orders in July/August 1483 - either by their secret survival, or by somebody else gaining access to them.
    OK you got me there. Any theory which requires camera footage to be faked in 2017 can be laughed out of court, the technology doesn't exist. Dunno how you'd even start.
    You’re missing the point. The point is that faking the camera footage of an empty corridor requires a conspiracy. On the part of the camera operators, guards, technicians…

    And such conspiracies are explained by ‘conspiracy theories.’

    Doesn’t mean it’s impossible it happened. It’s just somewhat less likely than the obvious - that Epstein strangled himself and an awful lot of time was wasted and confusion caused by the guards trying to cover up that they were asleep on duty.
    No they aren't. You need to think about what conspiracy theory means. Doesn't mean, a theory that there was a conspiracy. After all, conspiring to commit a crime, is a crime, in English law, and charges of conspiracy are not usually defended with the "this is just a conspiracy theory" argument. What "conspiracy theory" means, is a HUGE VIOLATION OF oCCAM'S RAZOR: can't be arsed to fix the capslock problem: either the Apollo missions went to the moon, or tens of thousands of NASA and other personnel got together to pretend they did.

    How difficult is it to fake footage of an empty corridor? You just transpose another bit of the 99% of the footage on that camera that genuinely shows an empty corridor. Boring plot device in any number of boring heist films. The answer is to have in shot a screen permanently showing CNN or whatever, but nobody seems to think of that.

    And my understanding is that you are wrong anyway, the cameras were - quite unaccountably and coincidentally - on the blink at the relevant time.
    Well, according to every reputable report, including the one I linked to, you are wrong about the cameras.

    And similarly, according to the reports of every reputable outlet, including the one I linked to, you are wrong about him being on suicide watch - he had been taken off the previous week.

    Quite a lot of people are claiming something different but we are then back to conspiracy theories.

    To quote R. Angus Buchanan, ‘conspiracies do happen and conspiracy theories are needed to explain them.’ But in this case they seem to be based, wilfully or otherwise, on a set of either misapprehensions or deliberately false statements.
This discussion has been closed.