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Help keep PB going for another year – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    As someone who spends much of my professional work trying to build teams and organizational culture, I would be fascinated to learn of the 'different and evolving forms of team-building, relationship-building, and management'. Can you point me in the direction of relevant literature? Because this is an area where everyone I know of in the adult professional training world is suffering as a result of the move to online-only rules.

    Serious question. I really want to find any way to improve team- and relationship-building online, particularly for teams and relationships that formed post-COVID.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,573
    I'm sure that my wife will be happy to discover that her PayPal account has made a donation to PB.

    I'm dipping out for the rest of the day, so Happy New Year Comrades!

  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    londoneye said:

    i think the best part of 2021 was boris johnsons approval rating going down to -50

    I think the best part of it comes in just over 6 hours.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 168
    darkage said:

    (reposted - put in wrong thread)
    I've set up a monthly donation and would encourage others to consider doing the same. I can imagine that running a website with 1000+ anonymous comments every day is very difficult work and the outlook in terms of regulation and risk is bad given the endless panic driven government policy initiatives about online safety and abuse. I've followed this website for years and have got a lot out of the commentary on it so would like to see it keep going. Cheers.

    I did the same thing last December. I realised I spent far more time on here than Netflix, Times, Guardian and Telegraph combined, all of which I have a subscription to. So I set up a monthly payment via PayPal equal to what I pay for a few of the others combined and don't actually need to respond to appeals like this anymore...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204

    I'm sure that my wife will be happy to discover that her PayPal account has made a donation to PB.

    I'm dipping out for the rest of the day, so Happy New Year Comrades!

    Is that in order to evade the wrath of Mrs Rentool?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,685
    BigRich said:

    My first take form todays COVID numbers in the UK, I think London may have peeked.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=region&areaName=London

    Lots of caveats about Christmas testing and backfilling of data, also worth noting that while cases in the young look as if they are fulling there is still a small rise in the older age groups.

    Worth noting that lots of people leave London (taking Covid with them) over the Xmas period, and then return in the New Year.

    That being said, I tend to agree that London numbers are likely peaking.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,236
    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,685
    pigeon said:

    Italy reported a record 144,243 Covid cases on Friday, following 126,888 the day before, the health ministry said, while the number of deaths fell slightly to 155 from 156.

    Italy has officially registered 137,402 deaths linked to coronavirus since February 2020, and reported 6.125 million cases to date.

    Patients in hospital with Covid - not including those in intensive care - stood at 11,150 on Friday, up from 10,866 a day earlier.

    There were 119 new admissions to intensive care units, down from 134 on Thursday. The total number of intensive care patients increased to 1,260 from a previous 1,226.

    A record 1.22 million tests for Covid were carried out in the last day, compared with 1.15 million the previous day, the health ministry said.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/dec/31/covid-news-live-south-africa-says-fourth-wave-has-peaked-us-will-soon-see-viral-blizzard-expert-warns

    AIUI Italy has had mask mandates and been applying widespread use of Covid passports all through the Autumn, and until relatively recently was reporting very much better Covid stats than the UK. Their deaths and patient numbers are now broadly comparable with ours.

    More evidence to suggest that these kinds of restrictions don't work against Omicron.

    That doesn't imply that at all. If Italy had no mask mandate, it might be that the number was 350,000.

    We need a country to actually split itself into two - basically identical - halves, and then measure how each performed.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 1,370
    Taz said:

    Twitter awash with rumours that Mr Drakeford and partner are at a holiday inn in Bristol for the evening to celebrate. Quite amusing really and probably nothing in it. A Holiday Inn !

    Probably on an undercover assignment to spot stray Welsh people who have sneaked over the border in order to enjoy themselves. I expect to hear reports of Nicola Sturgeon in the Carlisle Ibis and John Swinney in the Berwick Travelodge.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 5,910
    Whilst I remain on balance an optimist about omicron, as I have been from the start, I still feel pessimistic with regards to the restrictions we have around us. At least here in Wales. I would be interested to know what it would take for the Welsh government to remove all restrictions. I don't mean they should do so now but I'd like to know under what circumstances they would consider doing so. I fear when it comes to face masks they will drag their heels as long as possible.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,344

    Taz said:

    Twitter awash with rumours that Mr Drakeford and partner are at a holiday inn in Bristol for the evening to celebrate. Quite amusing really and probably nothing in it. A Holiday Inn !

    Probably on an undercover assignment to spot stray Welsh people who have sneaked over the border in order to enjoy themselves. I expect to hear reports of Nicola Sturgeon in the Carlisle Ibis and John Swinney in the Berwick Travelodge.
    The border doesn't even have an electrified fence yet. This may not always be so of course.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,204
    rcs1000 said:

    pigeon said:

    Italy reported a record 144,243 Covid cases on Friday, following 126,888 the day before, the health ministry said, while the number of deaths fell slightly to 155 from 156.

    Italy has officially registered 137,402 deaths linked to coronavirus since February 2020, and reported 6.125 million cases to date.

    Patients in hospital with Covid - not including those in intensive care - stood at 11,150 on Friday, up from 10,866 a day earlier.

    There were 119 new admissions to intensive care units, down from 134 on Thursday. The total number of intensive care patients increased to 1,260 from a previous 1,226.

    A record 1.22 million tests for Covid were carried out in the last day, compared with 1.15 million the previous day, the health ministry said.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/dec/31/covid-news-live-south-africa-says-fourth-wave-has-peaked-us-will-soon-see-viral-blizzard-expert-warns

    AIUI Italy has had mask mandates and been applying widespread use of Covid passports all through the Autumn, and until relatively recently was reporting very much better Covid stats than the UK. Their deaths and patient numbers are now broadly comparable with ours.

    More evidence to suggest that these kinds of restrictions don't work against Omicron.

    That doesn't imply that at all. If Italy had no mask mandate, it might be that the number was 350,000.

    We need a country to actually split itself into two - basically identical - halves, and then measure how each performed.
    Don't fully agree with you here, Robert. What these figures do indicate is that omicron is leading to massive increases in infections despite Italy's NPIs. Sure, it might be worse if none were applied. But it shows that at very best they are only partially effective.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787

    Taz said:

    Twitter awash with rumours that Mr Drakeford and partner are at a holiday inn in Bristol for the evening to celebrate. Quite amusing really and probably nothing in it. A Holiday Inn !

    Probably on an undercover assignment to spot stray Welsh people who have sneaked over the border in order to enjoy themselves. I expect to hear reports of Nicola Sturgeon in the Carlisle Ibis and John Swinney in the Berwick Travelodge.
    Poor sod. We went to Berwick once.

    This is going to end up On Twitter like those oh so funny and witty comments on transfer deadline day. “Paul Pogba has just arrived at East Midlands airport ahead of a medical and two year deal with Notts County.”
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,120
    kinabalu said:


    Ah, I think you've taken my post in a way I didn't intend. I'm not making light of the pandemic or saying it will leave no mark. It surely will. What I mainly meant is we can (imo) say goodbye to lockdowns and NPIs. All of that. Covid will soon be over (here) as a big part of our lives. It's back to how we were in this sense. But of course there'll be a legacy in many areas, eg in commerce and medicine. And of course there has been personal loss for many and lasting grief.

    Fair enough - in the spirit of the time of year.

    I do agree in the absence of a new and unexpectedly powerful variant, the virus should not require any further tightening of restrictions and certainly no "lockdown" (a term I loathe primarily because of its inaccuracy in comparison to those countries which effectively confined their populations to their homes for long periods).

    Today, I travelled widely across London - apart from wearing a mask on transport which is increasingly honoured more in the breach than the observance everything was completely normal.

    Mask wearing is one of those symbolic things - I can still see a small number continuing to wear them even when the legal requirement is lifted and some will argue in times of poor air quality a medical-grade mask could be useful for those suffering from respiratory issues and I get that. I'd like to think the sanitisation regime used on train carriages will continue for example.

    One lesson for me from all this is the necessity of a return of proper public health education.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325
    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:


    Ah, I think you've taken my post in a way I didn't intend. I'm not making light of the pandemic or saying it will leave no mark. It surely will. What I mainly meant is we can (imo) say goodbye to lockdowns and NPIs. All of that. Covid will soon be over (here) as a big part of our lives. It's back to how we were in this sense. But of course there'll be a legacy in many areas, eg in commerce and medicine. And of course there has been personal loss for many and lasting grief.

    Fair enough - in the spirit of the time of year.

    I do agree in the absence of a new and unexpectedly powerful variant, the virus should not require any further tightening of restrictions and certainly no "lockdown" (a term I loathe primarily because of its inaccuracy in comparison to those countries which effectively confined their populations to their homes for long periods).

    Today, I travelled widely across London - apart from wearing a mask on transport which is increasingly honoured more in the breach than the observance everything was completely normal.

    Mask wearing is one of those symbolic things - I can still see a small number continuing to wear them even when the legal requirement is lifted and some will argue in times of poor air quality a medical-grade mask could be useful for those suffering from respiratory issues and I get that. I'd like to think the sanitisation regime used on train carriages will continue for example.

    One lesson for me from all this is the necessity of a return of proper public health education.
    A friend of a friend has a nasty and potentially serious eye infection. She went to the eye-doc and he said "it is probably from wearing a mask" - and he told her he is seeing triple the number of eye-infections, compared to pre-Covid days. Because, masks

    In so many apparently trivial ways, Covid is a fucking horrible dismal miserable piece of world-historical SHITE
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,431
    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I hope it hasn't been changed by the pandemic. There was already too much "staring at screens" before the pandemic started, and the last thing we need is more of it.

  • David Baddiel
    @Baddiel
    I'm calling this now. @RebeccaFront for the biopic.

    https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1476978769839673344
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 236
    edited December 2021
    Cookie said:


    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    I agree that some of the online shift will unwind, where people were forced into it and didn't much like it. But some of it will stay, where people were forced into trying it and found that for at least some things they liked it. The net effect will be that we won't go all the way back to the old trend line; we'll settle on a new trend line roughly parallel to but a bit higher than the old one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,329
    Charles said:

    @JosiasJessop FPT re:adu

    Barry Sherman was a deeply unpleasant man. If you look into the reports of his death in enough detail you will understand the nature of some of his associates. I would be very carefully about implying any other company executive is in any way similar to him

    Surrogate markers are controversial (in the sense that there is not a consensus about whether they are sufficient, not whether there is anything intrinsically wrong with them) but fundamentally we don’t know why Alzheimer’s develops or even what caused it. The two main theories are a-beta and tau. Surrogate markers allow an accelerated approval path - and possibly the only affordable approval path - for products that could help in a disease that takes decades to play out*. Providing that the safety risks are manageable - and they (ARIA) are just about in the case of Adu - the choice is between no treatment and a treatment which may help. The AdCom was cautious, the FDA chose a riskier strategy.

    There’s not a smoking gun here. And deferiprone remains on the market 10 years post approval. Nancy Oliveri has an axe to grind.

    * to declare an interest I have a small holding in United Biomedical, the largest shareholder in Vaxxinity. Vaxxinity has a promising phase 2 Alzheimer’s vaccine in development targeting a-beta

    I'm unsure how you make out I was implying anything: I linked to a blog in the BMJ. Please tell me more about his death: I'd never heard of him, and it sounds intriguing.

    IMV the approval of Aducanumab by the FDA is disturbing. IA obviously NAE, but the discontinuation of the phase 3 trials as they were unlikely to show any improvement to patients' memory or thinking by the end of the trial is concerning.

    It is a licence to print money by the companies involved, with no sure evidence of any clinical benefit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325
    Masks and eyes. Not a good mix


    https://www.aoa.org/news/clinical-eye-care/diseases-and-conditions/how-face-masks-affect-the-eyes?sso=y


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7871812/


    I hope the Welsh tell Drakeford to stick his fucking masks where the sun has never shone. Ditto the French, and Macron
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,670
    I'm old enough to remember Leon being outnumbered on here as he advised

    "Wear a fucking mask!" 20 times a day.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,685
    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Eabhal said:

    If everything goes tits up, people will sell their bitcoin to pay their rent or keep up with the car payments.

    Source: my friends

    Yep. As long as Bitcoin is valued in traditional currencies, then there's always a chance of the price crashing. For it really to be the future, it would need people to want to be paid in the stuff.
    Spot on:

    Unless cryptocurrencies have a use beyond speculation*, then they will never be able to take over from fiat currencies.

    * Online market places for illegal shit is not - in itself - sufficient
    I value my wealth in sats, tbh

    Crypto isn't about speculation, it's about wealth preservation in a time of inflation, maybe hyperinflation.
    Buying something with no utility, where more is "printed" every day, and where the price is only held up by a net inflow of money sufficient to cover electricity generating costs seems an odd way of guaranteeing wealth preservation.

    Of course, I may be biased by the fact that I sold 99.5% of my Bitcoin, but it seems that a $2.1trn market cap for crpto could easily become a $500bn one, even in inflationary times.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325
    dixiedean said:

    I'm old enough to remember Leon being outnumbered on here as he advised

    "Wear a fucking mask!" 20 times a day.

    hah. Touche


    But that was at the outset of the 'demic, and I was right. Masks - unless you have a brilliantly installed FFP982 - are pretty useless against Omicron. It is time to end the theatre
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 2,605
    edited December 2021
    Has anybody else on twitter got the 0culus lady tennis player (she doesn't need a racquet in VR) as the second tweet in their feed like every time?

    Edit - I just remembered to tell the twits I'm "not interested"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,431
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm old enough to remember Leon being outnumbered on here as he advised

    "Wear a fucking mask!" 20 times a day.

    hah. Touche


    But that was at the outset of the 'demic, and I was right. Masks - unless you have a brilliantly installed FFP982 - are pretty useless against Omicron. It is time to end the theatre
    Let's hope so.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,460
    stodge said:


    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    On one hand it is amazing that we can do that now. We have seen 10 or more years' worth of development in those avenues compressed into just a couple.

    On the other hand, large parts of it are equally soul-destroying in many new and inventive ways.
  • I'm sure that my wife will be happy to discover that her PayPal account has made a donation to PB.

    I'm dipping out for the rest of the day, so Happy New Year Comrades!

    Does her account get the winnings from all the superb tips on here?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,399
    edited December 2021

    Whilst I remain on balance an optimist about omicron, as I have been from the start, I still feel pessimistic with regards to the restrictions we have around us. At least here in Wales. I would be interested to know what it would take for the Welsh government to remove all restrictions. I don't mean they should do so now but I'd like to know under what circumstances they would consider doing so. I fear when it comes to face masks they will drag their heels as long as possible.

    Masks are doing sod all in the prevention of covid now , they are just theatre . There is a downside to them of course ,more so than any upside. However I made a decision not to wear one at all from June 2021 (one exception was getting the booster ) and nobody has asked me to including being on trains,buses ,shops. i wish more would do the same and would advise anyone who hates wearing them to not to
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325
    edited December 2021
    This tweet is phrased to provoke, but it does not really need to. The underlying evidence is startling and insane enough


    In NYC they are rationing certain Covid medicines, and doing it by race, and discriminating against whites


    "NY State Department of Health warns they don't have enough Paxlovid or Monoclonal Antibody Treatment and white people need not apply. http://mssnyenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/122821_Notification_107774.pdf"

    Fucking madness. How to start a race war and get Trump elected. Aced it


    https://twitter.com/karol/status/1476735058824339457?s=20
  • MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Twitter awash with rumours that Mr Drakeford and partner are at a holiday inn in Bristol for the evening to celebrate. Quite amusing really and probably nothing in it. A Holiday Inn !

    I think that one requires a photograph.
    Would be half-believable if it was any other politician. Drakeford will probably be tucked up in bed at home in Cardiff on with a cocoa by 2030.

    Rumour started by a taxi driver who probably couldn't pick him out of a line-up.

    Although I note amusingly Welsh Government have denied the rumours. Should have ignored them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    Right, we’re off out for a curry at the local Bangladeshi restaurant and then back by about 10.30 to fall asleep on the settee. Have a great evening everyone and let’s hope 2022 is better. I expect it will be considerably worse.
  • Mail website gleefully showing pictures of deserted Glasgow and Edinburgh pubs next to pics of packed Newcastle.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,134
    edited December 2021
    Whilst this afternoon's warmth was somewhat unprecedented, I was amused to hear on the Radio 4 news headline that the temperature was double the average for the time of year.

    I hope everyone is safe out there in their own cryospheric bubble.

    Next stop Venus? New Year's Eve lasts all year there, so it would be a long party.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 18,903
    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,263

    kinabalu said:

    I'm going offline and may be some time.

    If I don't see you again first, I hope everyone has a Happy New Year and best wishes for 2022. May it be a happy, safe and prosperous one for all of you and your families.

    Yikes, that sounds a bit Captain Oates!
    That was the joke. Don't worry though, it's just a joke.

    I think I might be losing sense of taste and smell. We had a meal out tonight planned but having a quiet night in instead since I tested positive yesterday.

    Just poured a rum and lemonade with a new bottle of rum I got from my birthday. Couldn't taste the rum so I added more rum. Thought it tasted nice but quite mild, offered a taste to my wife who tried it, blinked and said "wow that's strong".

    Maybe free pouring spirits to taste may not be a good idea if losing sense of taste and smell. 😂🍸
    Ah ok, well I got the joke then. So much so that I told it back to you. You take it easy, Bartholomew Roberts, and we'll see you bright & early next year.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 236
    stodge said:

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed

    One small positive (but probably temporary) change: the number of injuries due to wearing high-heeled shoes fell by more than half in 2020...
  • I've got a nice 2012 Barolo (Curto, Arborina) to enjoy by myself this evening. It's 15% abv so apologies if I slur later.
  • But anyway - happy New Year one and all!

    Happy New Year!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 5,657
    edited December 2021

    stodge said:


    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    On one hand it is amazing that we can do that now. We have seen 10 or more years' worth of development in those avenues compressed into just a couple.

    On the other hand, large parts of it are equally soul-destroying in many new and inventive ways.
    Depends what we end up doing with the gains. After all, it's 1-2 hours a day not commuting, and the potential not to be tied to being commutably close to work.

    There's potentially a lot of human happiness and levelling up there.
  • Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    I am actually starting a new job on Tuesday and it is very depressing havign to start it WFH with a laptop gettign sent etc . You dont start many new jobs in a career and was looking forward to bursting into a new office with new faces and introducing myself and getting to know new people. I am sorry but i find your posts (as a leader ) rather depressing on this subject and fear what society will become (more introverted ,cut-off from others issues and experiences and less fun)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 21,096

    I've got a nice 2012 Barolo (Curto, Arborina) to enjoy by myself this evening. It's 15% abv so apologies if I slur later.

    A richt gude willie waught, for siccar ...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,495

    I've got a nice 2012 Barolo (Curto, Arborina) to enjoy by myself this evening. It's 15% abv so apologies if I slur later.

    Blimey 15%. Fino sherry is 18% I'm surprised you can taste the wine.

    But enjoy, obvs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,454
    edited December 2021
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    In case anyone's interested in Channel 4's iconic music show The Tube from the 80s, someone has been uploading the episodes to YouTube over the last few months and I've set up a playlist.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6oCQqv2KW6WGCG-5GXP5mNgCQbUplinJ

    I suspect they won’t last long
    Not long at all. Wrong platform.

    Youtube are quite happy to remove copyright-exempt news footage just when someone makes a vanity claim of copyright.
  • Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    Personally I think WFH is an astonishing bad idea and we are storing up a ton of slow burn mental health issues, especially amongst the young. I would have absolutely hated it when I was say 20 - 35 years old.

    It is different perhaps when you are older, maybe have a family coming and going, can share the WFH with a spouse and some pets, have a nice house with a garden and so on and on.

    I worked in shared and open plan offices for years. So much social interaction goes on over and above just work discussions that you get on zoom.

    Do monkeys sit in trees miles apart and just whoop at each other? We are social animals.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,151

    Mail website gleefully showing pictures of deserted Glasgow and Edinburgh pubs next to pics of packed Newcastle.

    Blatant shit stirring of this kind is very naughty and should be condemned.

    Besides, the Mail will be left looking very silly when we all discover that closing nightclubs is the only thing that can stop the otherwise unstoppable Omicron in its tracks.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,460

    stodge said:


    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    On one hand it is amazing that we can do that now. We have seen 10 or more years' worth of development in those avenues compressed into just a couple.

    On the other hand, large parts of it are equally soul-destroying in many new and inventive ways.
    Depends what we end up doing with the gains. After all, it's 1-2 hours a day not commuting, and the potential not to be tied to being commutably close to work.

    There's potentially a lot of human happiness and levelling up there.
    Yes, although my point was rather than in the world of work many people are swapping the soulless commute for the equally soulless feeling of being completely cut-off from their teams, colleagues and other co-workers.

    It's not to say WFH or hybrid is better or worse than FT office work, but there are inevitably good things and bad things with the change.

    Individually, continuing to work on whatever you were working on before is still fine and indeed in many instances improved in productivity terms without the office distraction, but any new projects, any collaborations between multiple people, anything involving trying to integrate new people into the team and get them up to speed, all have proven...challenging.

    My company has been far more cautious in the return to office or hybrid than most, so I have managed one short trip to do office work. Things like Teams help in some ways but are wholly inadequate replacements in other ways. I've sat at home for two years WFH now. I live on my own. I probably won't do it like that long term, so if they don't in 2022 get back to something I consider closer to a "proper" hybrid i.e. approx. even split between WFH and office, then I'll probably look to move on and something else: I want to get back out amongst people again to a significant extent.

    But I recognise everyone has their own distinct situations and needs and the new world of work may suit far more people than it hinders.
  • Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    I am actually starting a new job on Tuesday and it is very depressing havign to start it WFH with a laptop gettign sent etc . You dont start many new jobs in a career and was looking forward to bursting into a new office with new faces and introducing myself and getting to know new people. I am sorry but i find your posts (as a leader ) rather depressing on this subject and fear what society will become (more introverted ,cut-off from others issues and experiences and less fun)
    This. :+1:

    I'm a carer now, so not involved in the world of work. Pretty glad sometimes given what people say about it all.
  • TOPPING said:

    I've got a nice 2012 Barolo (Curto, Arborina) to enjoy by myself this evening. It's 15% abv so apologies if I slur later.

    Blimey 15%. Fino sherry is 18% I'm surprised you can taste the wine.

    But enjoy, obvs.
    I've just tried it. It's clearly strong, but also really fruity. Mostly cherry. And then there's a bit of burnt toast. Surprisingly mellow aftertaste.

    I could be drunk soonish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325
    edited December 2021

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    Personally I think WFH is an astonishing bad idea and we are storing up a ton of slow burn mental health issues, especially amongst the young. I would have absolutely hated it when I was say 20 - 35 years old.

    It is different perhaps when you are older, maybe have a family coming and going, can share the WFH with a spouse and some pets, have a nice house with a garden and so on and on.

    I worked in shared and open plan offices for years. So much social interaction goes on over and above just work discussions that you get on zoom.

    Do monkeys sit in trees miles apart and just whoop at each other? We are social animals.
    Yes exactly. How many people have gone unhugged, smiles unseen, jokes untold, laughs unheard, joys unshared, bodies uncaressed, in these long months of isolation and quarantine and plague?

    It is a mental health catastrophe in the making. A world on the spectrum. This worries me way more than omicron
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,399
    edited December 2021

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    I am actually starting a new job on Tuesday and it is very depressing havign to start it WFH with a laptop gettign sent etc . You dont start many new jobs in a career and was looking forward to bursting into a new office with new faces and introducing myself and getting to know new people. I am sorry but i find your posts (as a leader ) rather depressing on this subject and fear what society will become (more introverted ,cut-off from others issues and experiences and less fun)
    This. :+1:

    I'm a carer now, so not involved in the world of work. Pretty glad sometimes given what people say about it all.
    My daughter (last year of school) has already said she is not going to university if its been done online and will defer until it is not. Not sure many teens are looking forward with barely contained excitement at sitting at a screen in their flat or parents house for 8 hours a day five days a week as they move into the workplace
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,329
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    Personally I think WFH is an astonishing bad idea and we are storing up a ton of slow burn mental health issues, especially amongst the young. I would have absolutely hated it when I was say 20 - 35 years old.

    It is different perhaps when you are older, maybe have a family coming and going, can share the WFH with a spouse and some pets, have a nice house with a garden and so on and on.

    I worked in shared and open plan offices for years. So much social interaction goes on over and above just work discussions that you get on zoom.

    Do monkeys sit in trees miles apart and just whoop at each other? We are social animals.
    Yes exactly. How many people have gone unhugged, smiles unseen, jokes untold, laughs unheard, joys unshared, bodies uncaressed, in these long months of isolation and quarantine and plague?

    It is a mental health catastrophe in the making. A world on the spectrum. This worries me way more than omicron
    Considering you're someone who always calls for WAR! whenever anyone dares slight our great country, I'm slightly bemused that you're concerned about mental health.
  • eekeek Posts: 18,801
    edited December 2021

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    I am actually starting a new job on Tuesday and it is very depressing havign to start it WFH with a laptop gettign sent etc . You dont start many new jobs in a career and was looking forward to bursting into a new office with new faces and introducing myself and getting to know new people. I am sorry but i find your posts (as a leader ) rather depressing on this subject and fear what society will become (more introverted ,cut-off from others issues and experiences and less fun)
    This. :+1:

    I'm a carer now, so not involved in the world of work. Pretty glad sometimes given what people say about it all.
    My daughter (last year of school) has already said she is not going to university if its been done online and will defer until it is not. Not sure many teens are looking forward with barely contained excitement at sitting at a screen in their flat or parents house for 8 hours a day five days a week as they move into the workplace
    My advice to your daughter and anyone aged 17 - look at Degree Apprenticeships as well as University. start at https://www.findapprenticeship.service.gov.uk/apprenticeshipsearch

    Eek twin A is on £25,000 a year which was the head of sixth form pointed out was roughly the same as a NQT teacher after 3 years of uni and a 1 year conversion course.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,495

    TOPPING said:

    I've got a nice 2012 Barolo (Curto, Arborina) to enjoy by myself this evening. It's 15% abv so apologies if I slur later.

    Blimey 15%. Fino sherry is 18% I'm surprised you can taste the wine.

    But enjoy, obvs.
    I've just tried it. It's clearly strong, but also really fruity. Mostly cherry. And then there's a bit of burnt toast. Surprisingly mellow aftertaste.

    I could be drunk soonish.
    Sounds fantastic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,895
    edited December 2021
    I note there's an article on the Mail about whether or not a 4th vaccine is a good idea epidemiologically speaking.
    There's arguments about at the population level as to how much vaccination might be approrpiate with forcing pressure on the virus and so forth, but at an individual level it's always best to be at the front of the vaccine queue unless you've been very recently infected.
    I'll be getting any updates as soon as I'm eligible at any rate.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,454
    edited December 2021
    Questionable decision of the day: Germany closes 3 of its 6 nuclear power stations from tonight.
    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-powers-down-3-nuclear-plants/#:~:text=Germany's remaining three nuclear plants,," the environment ministry said.

    (Donated to PB)
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,387
    dixiedean said:

    I'm old enough to remember Leon being outnumbered on here as he advised

    "Wear a fucking mask!" 20 times a day.

    Yes, hold my hand up on that one... I was listening to the official advice which was completely wrong, we should have been following other countries and advising on mask wearing.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,329
    Pulpstar said:

    I note there's an article on the Mail about whether or not a 4th vaccine is a good idea epidemiologically speaking.
    There's arguments about at the population level as to how much vaccination might be approrpiate with forcing pressure on the virus and so forth, but at an individual level it's always best to be at the front of the vaccine queue unless you've been very recently infected.
    I'll be getting any updates as soon as I'm eligible at any rate.

    I guess it's far too early to tell if a 4th dose is required.

    As for being at the front of the vaccine queue: given the way Covid has behaved so far, now I'm triple-dosed I'd go for another dose in late autumn to get peak coverage over the winter. Then again, the little blighter might just evolve again.
  • MattW said:

    Questionable decision of the day: Germany closes 3 of its 6 nuclear power stations from tonight.
    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-powers-down-3-nuclear-plants/#:~:text=Germany's remaining three nuclear plants,," the environment ministry said.

    (Donated to PB)

    Defending the indefensible (in a not necessarily factual way) - all the the nuclear power stations are in the East which Vlad is coming back for.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,774
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    I am actually starting a new job on Tuesday and it is very depressing havign to start it WFH with a laptop gettign sent etc . You dont start many new jobs in a career and was looking forward to bursting into a new office with new faces and introducing myself and getting to know new people. I am sorry but i find your posts (as a leader ) rather depressing on this subject and fear what society will become (more introverted ,cut-off from others issues and experiences and less fun)
    This. :+1:

    I'm a carer now, so not involved in the world of work. Pretty glad sometimes given what people say about it all.
    My daughter (last year of school) has already said she is not going to university if its been done online and will defer until it is not. Not sure many teens are looking forward with barely contained excitement at sitting at a screen in their flat or parents house for 8 hours a day five days a week as they move into the workplace
    My advice to your daughter and anyone aged 17 - look at Degree Apprenticeships as well as University. start at https://www.findapprenticeship.service.gov.uk/apprenticeshipsearch

    Eek twin A is on £25,000 a year which was the head of sixth form pointed out was roughly the same as a NQT teacher after 3 years of uni and a 1 year conversion course.
    When I went to UCL many years ago, something like 20% of the class were mature students. I have always wondered at the utility of asking 18 year olds to make such an important choice.

    Most of them had failed an original degree, done some Real Life (TM) and decided they really, really wanted to the subject.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    Personally I think WFH is an astonishing bad idea and we are storing up a ton of slow burn mental health issues, especially amongst the young. I would have absolutely hated it when I was say 20 - 35 years old.

    It is different perhaps when you are older, maybe have a family coming and going, can share the WFH with a spouse and some pets, have a nice house with a garden and so on and on.

    I worked in shared and open plan offices for years. So much social interaction goes on over and above just work discussions that you get on zoom.

    Do monkeys sit in trees miles apart and just whoop at each other? We are social animals.
    Yes exactly. How many people have gone unhugged, smiles unseen, jokes untold, laughs unheard, joys unshared, bodies uncaressed, in these long months of isolation and quarantine and plague?

    It is a mental health catastrophe in the making. A world on the spectrum. This worries me way more than omicron
    Considering you're someone who always calls for WAR! whenever anyone dares slight our great country, I'm slightly bemused that you're concerned about mental health.
    Probably because - by my own admission - the three lockdowns sent me madder and madder, and at one point I was quite close to suicide (there were other factors, but the intense loneliness of those wintry weeks sure did not help)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,495
    rkrkrk said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm old enough to remember Leon being outnumbered on here as he advised

    "Wear a fucking mask!" 20 times a day.

    Yes, hold my hand up on that one... I was listening to the official advice which was completely wrong, we should have been following other countries and advising on mask wearing.
    Today in Tesco was 100% mask compliance. Even me who generally doesn't wear them but it was too total not to.

    People scrubbing the trolleys etc. I mean these people will have been vaxxed.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I note there's an article on the Mail about whether or not a 4th vaccine is a good idea epidemiologically speaking.
    There's arguments about at the population level as to how much vaccination might be approrpiate with forcing pressure on the virus and so forth, but at an individual level it's always best to be at the front of the vaccine queue unless you've been very recently infected.
    I'll be getting any updates as soon as I'm eligible at any rate.

    I guess it's far too early to tell if a 4th dose is required.

    As for being at the front of the vaccine queue: given the way Covid has behaved so far, now I'm triple-dosed I'd go for another dose in late autumn to get peak coverage over the winter. Then again, the little blighter might just evolve again.
    It is certain to evolve I would say and be given another name we can all be scared of again. I hope society and politics will grow up soon to realise you cannot control a virus and there is more to life and society than obsessing about variant after variant when they are all likely to be less dangerous in any case. I doubt it though
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,282
    edited December 2021
    For Scots
    IshmaelZ said:

    TimT said:

    Can any of our Scots tell me what this means? "A right gude-willie waught"?!

    Quite Interesting
    @qikipedia
    2m
    There are five verses in Burns' version of Auld Lang Syne, although most of us only sing the first verse and chorus. Try the last verse out on friends:

    And there's a hand, my trusty fiere!
    and gie's a hand o' thine!
    And we'll tak' a right gude-willie waught,
    for auld lang syne.

    English translation from the inter web thingy. Perhaps our Scots friends can attest to its accuracy?

    hould old acquaintance be forgot,

    and never brought to mind?

    Should old acquaintance be forgot,

    and old lang syne?

    CHORUS:

    For auld lang syne, my dear,

    For auld lang syne,

    We’ll take a cup of kindness yet,

    For auld lang syne.

    And surely you’ll buy your pint cup!

    And surely I’ll buy mine!

    And we’ll take a cup o’ kindness yet,

    For auld lang syne.

    CHORUS

    We two have run about the slopes,

    And picked the daisies fine;

    But we’ve wandered many a weary foot,

    Since auld lang syne.

    CHORUS

    We two have paddled in the stream,

    from morning sun till dine;

    But seas between us broad have roared

    since auld lang syne.

    CHORUS

    And there’s a hand my trusty friend!

    And give me a hand o’ thine!

    And we’ll take a right good-will draught,

    For auld lang syne.

    CHORUS
    Bit of an omission not to translate the words auld lang syne

    The Parting Glass is a much better song. Burns really wasn't all that, was he?
    One of the better versions....... (Mairi Campbell from Sex in the City)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK-E1f-YKBA
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,344
    TOPPING said:

    rkrkrk said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm old enough to remember Leon being outnumbered on here as he advised

    "Wear a fucking mask!" 20 times a day.

    Yes, hold my hand up on that one... I was listening to the official advice which was completely wrong, we should have been following other countries and advising on mask wearing.
    Today in Tesco was 100% mask compliance. Even me who generally doesn't wear them but it was too total not to.

    People scrubbing the trolleys etc. I mean these people will have been vaxxed.
    Have we not established beyond doubt that it is almost impossible to catch Covid (of any variety) off a surface such as the handle of a trolly? This is an airborne virus and you breath it in to catch it. All this other nonsense may have an indirect benefit in stopping other winter bugs but it has no effect on Covid.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325
    Intensely odd atmosphere here in primrose hill. The mildest New Year’s Eve on record, I think? It’s 16C in north London at 7pm on December 31st

    People are drinking outside like it is an evening in late spring

    2021 ends on a suitably surreal note
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,739
    Happy new year PB

    Lets hope 2022 is a better year.
  • Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    Personally I think WFH is an astonishing bad idea and we are storing up a ton of slow burn mental health issues, especially amongst the young. I would have absolutely hated it when I was say 20 - 35 years old.

    It is different perhaps when you are older, maybe have a family coming and going, can share the WFH with a spouse and some pets, have a nice house with a garden and so on and on.

    I worked in shared and open plan offices for years. So much social interaction goes on over and above just work discussions that you get on zoom.

    Do monkeys sit in trees miles apart and just whoop at each other? We are social animals.
    Yes exactly. How many people have gone unhugged, smiles unseen, jokes untold, laughs unheard, joys unshared, bodies uncaressed, in these long months of isolation and quarantine and plague?

    It is a mental health catastrophe in the making. A world on the spectrum. This worries me way more than omicron
    The thing is mental health collapse can be slow and then sudden. Bit like Hemingway's bankrupt quote. So months and years of WFH could be ok for a while, but beneath the surface the foundations of your mental resilience are being eaten by termites.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,685
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    rkrkrk said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm old enough to remember Leon being outnumbered on here as he advised

    "Wear a fucking mask!" 20 times a day.

    Yes, hold my hand up on that one... I was listening to the official advice which was completely wrong, we should have been following other countries and advising on mask wearing.
    Today in Tesco was 100% mask compliance. Even me who generally doesn't wear them but it was too total not to.

    People scrubbing the trolleys etc. I mean these people will have been vaxxed.
    Have we not established beyond doubt that it is almost impossible to catch Covid (of any variety) off a surface such as the handle of a trolly? This is an airborne virus and you breath it in to catch it. All this other nonsense may have an indirect benefit in stopping other winter bugs but it has no effect on Covid.
    Transmission by formites happens - if you pick up viral matter on your hands, hold them up to your face and breathe in deeply, then you might get sick.

    But it is not the primary transmission vector.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,256
    edited December 2021
    Me and the boss are about to hunker down with a bottle or two of red and watch Don't Look Up, on the advice of some folk on here - so it had better be good.

    I shall donate in the morning - this is a site well worth supporting. I sometimes ask myself why, since I retired, I spend time on here, but I know the answer really. I'm a bit of a politics obsessive, but most of my friends and family aren't, so it gives me an outlet for my musings. I also rarely mix with anybody on the right of politics (not by choice really, just how it is), so I like the challenge (even though you righties are, of course, usually wrong). But in addition to the politics, I find it helps me keep up with all the news, both serious and trivial. And, sometimes, it's funny.

    Happy new year all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    I take a midway point.
    The shift to online - working, retailing - has been happening anyway. Covid accelerated that, but we will snap back to the trend line as soon as we can.
    People like interacting in real life. The real world will come back, because people want it back.

    People commuting 70 miles into London at great cost of time and money will do so much less. But they were doing so less anyway. And that's a pretty small sector of the population.

    Covid will not change the world, except that the world was changing anyway.

    And on that minor quibble - which seems as appropriate way as any to end the online year - I am off out and wish you all a happy new year!
    It's hard to predict how attitudes will evolve. In my place (roughly 100 mostly young staff with typically 30-60 minute commutes) there is very strong opposition to returning to the office full-time, even among colleagues who initially wanted it. They've got used to wfh and see no particular reason to want to interact around a table instead of on screen. "I like to see friends in the flesh and meet new people - no offence, but I don't really need to interact physically with work colleagues, it's not as though we hugged each other at work", as one said.

    That's certainly my view, and I live only 5 minutes from the office - it's just more comfortable to work from home where you've got the optimal environment rather than a desk in a crowded open-plan office. I'm fine with being online 8 hours a day and younger colleagues mostly feel the same (older ones are less keen). We're compromising by saying closed till at least April and then probably encouraging working in the office 2-3 days a week. Similarly, I mostly get food online - why would I want to trudge around a supermarket and then stand in a queue?

    Is that true of everyone? Of course not. And it's even less true of work which simply cannot be done from home. But I think Stodge is more right than Cookie about how the world has changed.
    Personally I think WFH is an astonishing bad idea and we are storing up a ton of slow burn mental health issues, especially amongst the young. I would have absolutely hated it when I was say 20 - 35 years old.

    It is different perhaps when you are older, maybe have a family coming and going, can share the WFH with a spouse and some pets, have a nice house with a garden and so on and on.

    I worked in shared and open plan offices for years. So much social interaction goes on over and above just work discussions that you get on zoom.

    Do monkeys sit in trees miles apart and just whoop at each other? We are social animals.
    Yes exactly. How many people have gone unhugged, smiles unseen, jokes untold, laughs unheard, joys unshared, bodies uncaressed, in these long months of isolation and quarantine and plague?

    It is a mental health catastrophe in the making. A world on the spectrum. This worries me way more than omicron
    The thing is mental health collapse can be slow and then sudden. Bit like Hemingway's bankrupt quote. So months and years of WFH could be ok for a while, but beneath the surface the foundations of your mental resilience are being eaten by termites.
    Absolutely

    Society was already being dangerously atomised by smartphones and the net - parents not interacting with kids because phones is a proven evil - and now covid has multiplied all that a billion times

    WFH AND staring at a screen all your life is a vision of hell
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,670
    Have we done this?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/31/uk-governments-covid-advisers-enduring-tidal-waves-of-abuse

    This is totally unacceptable. Perhaps, if the government wanted to do something worthwhile to restore its faded popularity in 2022, a crackdown on abuse and threats, which a minority appear to have.grown accustomed to resorting to as their "right", could be one?
    Would have to be without fear or favour, mind, so probably not.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 19,670
    This pandemic is over now.
    This is its death rattle after 2 miserable years.
    Happy New Year all!!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325
    Ally_B1 said:

    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    Ah, I think you've taken my post in a way I didn't intend. I'm not making light of the pandemic or saying it will leave no mark. It surely will. What I mainly meant is we can (imo) say goodbye to lockdowns and NPIs. All of that. Covid will soon be over (here) as a big part of our lives. It's back to how we were in this sense. But of course there'll be a legacy in many areas, eg in commerce and medicine. And of course there has been personal loss for many and lasting grief.
    I saw these comments and nodded, so much has changed in the last two years. May I start by wishing all of you a great 2022. I rarely post but I read comments here maybe three or four times a day. I recognise the pain and suffering that many have and I share my story as it all comes about from the impact that this virus has had on our lives.

    So far this evening I have received New Year greetings from my sons in Melbourne, Australia and my wife in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. In a few hours, Captain Morgan permitting, I will get to send them mine. I came back to the UK in March 2020 to sell our flat, located in a "much sought after part of England's second city"; two days before lockdown and now almost two years have now passed since I last saw my wife in person. Our seventh wedding anniversary is in two days time. I am trapped in this "plaque pit of a country" unable to return because the flat hasn't yet sold despite the price being dropped 10% from pre-pandemic prices and is now priced at what it was remortgaged for 13 years ago. The mortgage company wants it sold asap as the interest only mortgage has expired and I can't remortgage because I no longer meet lending requirements. I suspect people no longer need to live close to work to save commuting and that is part of my problem. My Malaysia visa is no longer valid and I will have to jump through hoops to be allowed back there whilst access to that country is on hold. In 2022 my oldest son is expecting to get married at Easter, my wife wants me back so I can take her to the wedding; in Australia. As of this minute neither I nor my wife would be allowed into Australia, bar jumping over compassionate hurdles, which having put on over 20kg since my return here may be an athletic feat I am not up to at my age. The only vaguely positive thing I can think of for 2021 was that when my best friend of some 40 years died I was able to go to his funeral in person. On reflection I doubt neither of us would see that as a positive. I terminated my UK broadband and TV licence in 2019, not expecting to need them when I returned to the UK for a "short stay". I suppose another possible positive is that the last TV programme I watched was in November 2019. Have I missed anything? Christmas 2021 was the worst in my life, the first time I have been alone, away from any family or friends. (Last year I was delivering meals to lonely people on Christmas Day but my church didn't organise that for this year, thanks to covid concerns).

    I know some who post here are going through a bad time or who have relatives that are. For me, I am going to focus on the great things I have to look forward to in 2022 rather than dwell on the past year and I hope you all can do similar. In the meantime I hear the Captain calling me.
    Jesus Christ mate. What a story. If it’s any solace (I doubt it) you have put my own sporadic gloom in perspective

    Have a drink. And best wishes for 2022. It can only get better, right?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,649
    dixiedean said:

    Have we done this?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/31/uk-governments-covid-advisers-enduring-tidal-waves-of-abuse

    This is totally unacceptable. Perhaps, if the government wanted to do something worthwhile to restore its faded popularity in 2022, a crackdown on abuse and threats, which a minority appear to have.grown accustomed to resorting to as their "right", could be one?
    Would have to be without fear or favour, mind, so probably not.

    Falls into the category of "if you do the right thing once, you have to do it every time."

    I'm not sure we have enough prison cells.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 47,938
    Ally_B1 said:

    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    Ah, I think you've taken my post in a way I didn't intend. I'm not making light of the pandemic or saying it will leave no mark. It surely will. What I mainly meant is we can (imo) say goodbye to lockdowns and NPIs. All of that. Covid will soon be over (here) as a big part of our lives. It's back to how we were in this sense. But of course there'll be a legacy in many areas, eg in commerce and medicine. And of course there has been personal loss for many and lasting grief.
    I saw these comments and nodded, so much has changed in the last two years. May I start by wishing all of you a great 2022. I rarely post but I read comments here maybe three or four times a day. I recognise the pain and suffering that many have and I share my story as it all comes about from the impact that this virus has had on our lives.

    So far this evening I have received New Year greetings from my sons in Melbourne, Australia and my wife in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. In a few hours, Captain Morgan permitting, I will get to send them mine. I came back to the UK in March 2020 to sell our flat, located in a "much sought after part of England's second city"; two days before lockdown and now almost two years have now passed since I last saw my wife in person. Our seventh wedding anniversary is in two days time. I am trapped in this "plaque pit of a country" unable to return because the flat hasn't yet sold despite the price being dropped 10% from pre-pandemic prices and is now priced at what it was remortgaged for 13 years ago. The mortgage company wants it sold asap as the interest only mortgage has expired and I can't remortgage because I no longer meet lending requirements. I suspect people no longer need to live close to work to save commuting and that is part of my problem. My Malaysia visa is no longer valid and I will have to jump through hoops to be allowed back there whilst access to that country is on hold. In 2022 my oldest son is expecting to get married at Easter, my wife wants me back so I can take her to the wedding; in Australia. As of this minute neither I nor my wife would be allowed into Australia, bar jumping over compassionate hurdles, which having put on over 20kg since my return here may be an athletic feat I am not up to at my age. The only vaguely positive thing I can think of for 2021 was that when my best friend of some 40 years died I was able to go to his funeral in person. On reflection I doubt neither of us would see that as a positive. I terminated my UK broadband and TV licence in 2019, not expecting to need them when I returned to the UK for a "short stay". I suppose another possible positive is that the last TV programme I watched was in November 2019. Have I missed anything? Christmas 2021 was the worst in my life, the first time I have been alone, away from any family or friends. (Last year I was delivering meals to lonely people on Christmas Day but my church didn't organise that for this year, thanks to covid concerns).

    I know some who post here are going through a bad time or who have relatives that are. For me, I am going to focus on the great things I have to look forward to in 2022 rather than dwell on the past year and I hope you all can do similar. In the meantime I hear the Captain calling me.
    That kind of puts everything else in perspective. I hope you can get sorted out soon and that 2022 sees you reunited with your family.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,120
    Looking at the discussion about WFH and stuff.

    A colleague was telling me about his daughter last summer; she had gone through her first year of uni all online. She was doing really well and had won a scholarship to a summer school in Aalborg. So she was looking forward to going to Denmark for the summer and then the decision was made that it would be moved online. So she did summer school, as with the whole of the first year, from her bedroom in her parents house in Chester.

    Another thing I saw on linkedin; someone who had spent the first year and a half of her career entirely online. She sent in pictures from her first 'in-person' event and described it as a 'treat''. A 'treat' to be in a room with real people.

    It seems to me that this is at least partially being driven by an element of convenience on the part of employers and universities and driven by irrational fears about COVID on the part of older people. This is the trouble with the continuous waves of fear and panic, they will end up embedding this as the norm sweeping away everything that went before. The reality is that it suits older people who have had their 3-4 years of uni then a decade of partying or whatever.

    Younger people are missing out but the danger is that they don't know what they are missing out on, they get so accustomed to doing everything on screen; that they cannot deal with any other way of doing things.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,495
    Ally_B1 said:

    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    Ah, I think you've taken my post in a way I didn't intend. I'm not making light of the pandemic or saying it will leave no mark. It surely will. What I mainly meant is we can (imo) say goodbye to lockdowns and NPIs. All of that. Covid will soon be over (here) as a big part of our lives. It's back to how we were in this sense. But of course there'll be a legacy in many areas, eg in commerce and medicine. And of course there has been personal loss for many and lasting grief.
    I saw these comments and nodded, so much has changed in the last two years. May I start by wishing all of you a great 2022. I rarely post but I read comments here maybe three or four times a day. I recognise the pain and suffering that many have and I share my story as it all comes about from the impact that this virus has had on our lives.

    So far this evening I have received New Year greetings from my sons in Melbourne, Australia and my wife in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. In a few hours, Captain Morgan permitting, I will get to send them mine. I came back to the UK in March 2020 to sell our flat, located in a "much sought after part of England's second city"; two days before lockdown and now almost two years have now passed since I last saw my wife in person. Our seventh wedding anniversary is in two days time. I am trapped in this "plaque pit of a country" unable to return because the flat hasn't yet sold despite the price being dropped 10% from pre-pandemic prices and is now priced at what it was remortgaged for 13 years ago. The mortgage company wants it sold asap as the interest only mortgage has expired and I can't remortgage because I no longer meet lending requirements. I suspect people no longer need to live close to work to save commuting and that is part of my problem. My Malaysia visa is no longer valid and I will have to jump through hoops to be allowed back there whilst access to that country is on hold. In 2022 my oldest son is expecting to get married at Easter, my wife wants me back so I can take her to the wedding; in Australia. As of this minute neither I nor my wife would be allowed into Australia, bar jumping over compassionate hurdles, which having put on over 20kg since my return here may be an athletic feat I am not up to at my age. The only vaguely positive thing I can think of for 2021 was that when my best friend of some 40 years died I was able to go to his funeral in person. On reflection I doubt neither of us would see that as a positive. I terminated my UK broadband and TV licence in 2019, not expecting to need them when I returned to the UK for a "short stay". I suppose another possible positive is that the last TV programme I watched was in November 2019. Have I missed anything? Christmas 2021 was the worst in my life, the first time I have been alone, away from any family or friends. (Last year I was delivering meals to lonely people on Christmas Day but my church didn't organise that for this year, thanks to covid concerns).

    I know some who post here are going through a bad time or who have relatives that are. For me, I am going to focus on the great things I have to look forward to in 2022 rather than dwell on the past year and I hope you all can do similar. In the meantime I hear the Captain calling me.
    Mate that sounds like a shocker. Thank you for sharing. The sooner this is over the better.
  • dixiedean said:

    Have we done this?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/31/uk-governments-covid-advisers-enduring-tidal-waves-of-abuse

    This is totally unacceptable. Perhaps, if the government wanted to do something worthwhile to restore its faded popularity in 2022, a crackdown on abuse and threats, which a minority appear to have.grown accustomed to resorting to as their "right", could be one?
    Would have to be without fear or favour, mind, so probably not.

    Before (anti) social bloody media this would have been a handful of cranks writing letters in green ink.

    Now...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,685
    MattW said:

    Questionable decision of the day: Germany closes 3 of its 6 nuclear power stations from tonight.
    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-powers-down-3-nuclear-plants/#:~:text=Germany's remaining three nuclear plants,," the environment ministry said.

    (Donated to PB)

    Those plants are old, were maintenance nightmares, and had appalling uptime levels (like sub 50% for the newer two, and something in the 20s for the one dating back to the 70s). Gundremmingen C in particular was a very old BWR model that RWE had long been begging for permission to close.

    The timing on the other two, though, is poor. Although the electrical generation for both is modest, I would have (if possible) delayed decomissioning for a year or two, if only to make sure that Hamburg LNG was built and operational.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 19,325
    darkage said:

    Looking at the discussion about WFH and stuff.

    A colleague was telling me about his daughter last summer; she had gone through her first year of uni all online. She was doing really well and had won a scholarship to a summer school in Aalborg. So she was looking forward to going to Denmark for the summer and then the decision was made that it would be moved online. So she did summer school, as with the whole of the first year, from her bedroom in her parents house in Chester.

    Another thing I saw on linkedin; someone who had spent the first year and a half of her career entirely online. She sent in pictures from her first 'in-person' event and described it as a 'treat''. A 'treat' to be in a room with real people.

    It seems to me that this is at least partially being driven by an element of convenience on the part of employers and universities and driven by irrational fears about COVID on the part of older people. This is the trouble with the continuous waves of fear and panic, they will end up embedding this as the norm sweeping away everything that went before. The reality is that it suits older people who have had their 3-4 years of uni then a decade of partying or whatever.

    Younger people are missing out but the danger is that they don't know what they are missing out on, they get so accustomed to doing everything on screen; that they cannot deal with any other way of doing things.

    Well said. Us older people who realise this need to fight the fuckers that are happy to ruin the lives of the young from their fucking massive gardens
  • Me and the boss are about to hunker down with a bottle or two of red and watch Don't Look Up, on the advice of some folk on here - so it had better be good.

    I shall donate in the morning - this is a site well worth supporting. I sometimes ask myself why, since I retired, I spend time on here, but I know the answer really. I'm a bit of a politics obsessive, but most of my friends and family aren't, so it gives me an outlet for my musings. I also rarely mix with anybody on the right of politics (not by choice really, just how it is), so I like the challenge (even though you righties are, of course, usually wrong). But in addition to the politics, I find it helps me keep up with all the news, both serious and trivial. And, sometimes, it's funny.

    Happy new year all.

    Likewise on the film. Going to watch with the astonishingly better half in a hour or so whilst drinking a few xmas ales and red wine.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,454
    edited December 2021
    Happy New Year everyone.

    My evening will be stir fried clams w lemon and garlic, followed by honey-mustard glazed roast duck using *this* recipe:

    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/honey-mustard-glazed-duck

    The most interesting article I've seen today is this provocative piece about millions of songbirds being trapped as a food delicacy.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/23/struggle-to-save-europe-songbirds-aoe

    Good but very Guardian - there's a correction for getting a photo of a Yellowhammer muddled up with one of an Ortolan Bunting.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,565
    Ally_B1 said:

    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    Ah, I think you've taken my post in a way I didn't intend. I'm not making light of the pandemic or saying it will leave no mark. It surely will. What I mainly meant is we can (imo) say goodbye to lockdowns and NPIs. All of that. Covid will soon be over (here) as a big part of our lives. It's back to how we were in this sense. But of course there'll be a legacy in many areas, eg in commerce and medicine. And of course there has been personal loss for many and lasting grief.
    I saw these comments and nodded, so much has changed in the last two years. May I start by wishing all of you a great 2022. I rarely post but I read comments here maybe three or four times a day. I recognise the pain and suffering that many have and I share my story as it all comes about from the impact that this virus has had on our lives.

    So far this evening I have received New Year greetings from my sons in Melbourne, Australia and my wife in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. In a few hours, Captain Morgan permitting, I will get to send them mine. I came back to the UK in March 2020 to sell our flat, located in a "much sought after part of England's second city"; two days before lockdown and now almost two years have now passed since I last saw my wife in person. Our seventh wedding anniversary is in two days time. I am trapped in this "plaque pit of a country" unable to return because the flat hasn't yet sold despite the price being dropped 10% from pre-pandemic prices and is now priced at what it was remortgaged for 13 years ago. The mortgage company wants it sold asap as the interest only mortgage has expired and I can't remortgage because I no longer meet lending requirements. I suspect people no longer need to live close to work to save commuting and that is part of my problem. My Malaysia visa is no longer valid and I will have to jump through hoops to be allowed back there whilst access to that country is on hold. In 2022 my oldest son is expecting to get married at Easter, my wife wants me back so I can take her to the wedding; in Australia. As of this minute neither I nor my wife would be allowed into Australia, bar jumping over compassionate hurdles, which having put on over 20kg since my return here may be an athletic feat I am not up to at my age. The only vaguely positive thing I can think of for 2021 was that when my best friend of some 40 years died I was able to go to his funeral in person. On reflection I doubt neither of us would see that as a positive. I terminated my UK broadband and TV licence in 2019, not expecting to need them when I returned to the UK for a "short stay". I suppose another possible positive is that the last TV programme I watched was in November 2019. Have I missed anything? Christmas 2021 was the worst in my life, the first time I have been alone, away from any family or friends. (Last year I was delivering meals to lonely people on Christmas Day but my church didn't organise that for this year, thanks to covid concerns).

    I know some who post here are going through a bad time or who have relatives that are. For me, I am going to focus on the great things I have to look forward to in 2022 rather than dwell on the past year and I hope you all can do similar. In the meantime I hear the Captain calling me.
    A 'like' for the heartfelt post and not the predicament. I hope it all goes to plan in 2022.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,454
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Questionable decision of the day: Germany closes 3 of its 6 nuclear power stations from tonight.
    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-powers-down-3-nuclear-plants/#:~:text=Germany's remaining three nuclear plants,," the environment ministry said.

    (Donated to PB)

    Those plants are old, were maintenance nightmares, and had appalling uptime levels (like sub 50% for the newer two, and something in the 20s for the one dating back to the 70s). Gundremmingen C in particular was a very old BWR model that RWE had long been begging for permission to close.

    The timing on the other two, though, is poor. Although the electrical generation for both is modest, I would have (if possible) delayed decomissioning for a year or two, if only to make sure that Hamburg LNG was built and operational.
    To me it would make sense to extend it for a few months until Nordstream 2 is resolved.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 18,903
    Ally_B1 said:



    I know some who post here are going through a bad time or who have relatives that are. For me, I am going to focus on the great things I have to look forward to in 2022 rather than dwell on the past year and I hope you all can do similar. In the meantime I hear the Captain calling me.

    It sounds utterly appalling. All the very best for an infinitely better year.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,120
    Evening all :)

    Certainly was unseasonably mild in London today - has been the last couple of days.

    I see my observations on WFH once again show me in the minority - I can only speak from my own experience and from those colleagues with whom I have spoken. We are all happy to be rid of the commute - we have started meeting once a month as a group in person.

    I can believe younger people miss the socialising of office life but the hybrid model doesn't remove it - going into the office 2-3 days as a pattern still allows for social interaction as do regular planned team meetings both virtual and in-person. It's a new way of working just as computers themselves changed how people worked (and before that the telephone).

    Adaptation is an integral part of the human experience - it's part of evolution. Circumstances change, environments change and we change and adapt to them.
  • Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Looking at the discussion about WFH and stuff.

    A colleague was telling me about his daughter last summer; she had gone through her first year of uni all online. She was doing really well and had won a scholarship to a summer school in Aalborg. So she was looking forward to going to Denmark for the summer and then the decision was made that it would be moved online. So she did summer school, as with the whole of the first year, from her bedroom in her parents house in Chester.

    Another thing I saw on linkedin; someone who had spent the first year and a half of her career entirely online. She sent in pictures from her first 'in-person' event and described it as a 'treat''. A 'treat' to be in a room with real people.

    It seems to me that this is at least partially being driven by an element of convenience on the part of employers and universities and driven by irrational fears about COVID on the part of older people. This is the trouble with the continuous waves of fear and panic, they will end up embedding this as the norm sweeping away everything that went before. The reality is that it suits older people who have had their 3-4 years of uni then a decade of partying or whatever.

    Younger people are missing out but the danger is that they don't know what they are missing out on, they get so accustomed to doing everything on screen; that they cannot deal with any other way of doing things.

    Well said. Us older people who realise this need to fight the fuckers that are happy to ruin the lives of the young from their fucking massive gardens
    Yep.

    Looks like we have a massive fight on our hands come next week and rest of 2022 to keep society and above all schools and universities open.

    No lockdown.
  • Ally_B1 said:

    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    Ah, I think you've taken my post in a way I didn't intend. I'm not making light of the pandemic or saying it will leave no mark. It surely will. What I mainly meant is we can (imo) say goodbye to lockdowns and NPIs. All of that. Covid will soon be over (here) as a big part of our lives. It's back to how we were in this sense. But of course there'll be a legacy in many areas, eg in commerce and medicine. And of course there has been personal loss for many and lasting grief.
    I saw these comments and nodded, so much has changed in the last two years. May I start by wishing all of you a great 2022. I rarely post but I read comments here maybe three or four times a day. I recognise the pain and suffering that many have and I share my story as it all comes about from the impact that this virus has had on our lives.

    So far this evening I have received New Year greetings from my sons in Melbourne, Australia and my wife in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. In a few hours, Captain Morgan permitting, I will get to send them mine. I came back to the UK in March 2020 to sell our flat, located in a "much sought after part of England's second city"; two days before lockdown and now almost two years have now passed since I last saw my wife in person. Our seventh wedding anniversary is in two days time. I am trapped in this "plaque pit of a country" unable to return because the flat hasn't yet sold despite the price being dropped 10% from pre-pandemic prices and is now priced at what it was remortgaged for 13 years ago. The mortgage company wants it sold asap as the interest only mortgage has expired and I can't remortgage because I no longer meet lending requirements. I suspect people no longer need to live close to work to save commuting and that is part of my problem. My Malaysia visa is no longer valid and I will have to jump through hoops to be allowed back there whilst access to that country is on hold. In 2022 my oldest son is expecting to get married at Easter, my wife wants me back so I can take her to the wedding; in Australia. As of this minute neither I nor my wife would be allowed into Australia, bar jumping over compassionate hurdles, which having put on over 20kg since my return here may be an athletic feat I am not up to at my age. The only vaguely positive thing I can think of for 2021 was that when my best friend of some 40 years died I was able to go to his funeral in person. On reflection I doubt neither of us would see that as a positive. I terminated my UK broadband and TV licence in 2019, not expecting to need them when I returned to the UK for a "short stay". I suppose another possible positive is that the last TV programme I watched was in November 2019. Have I missed anything? Christmas 2021 was the worst in my life, the first time I have been alone, away from any family or friends. (Last year I was delivering meals to lonely people on Christmas Day but my church didn't organise that for this year, thanks to covid concerns).

    I know some who post here are going through a bad time or who have relatives that are. For me, I am going to focus on the great things I have to look forward to in 2022 rather than dwell on the past year and I hope you all can do similar. In the meantime I hear the Captain calling me.
    yes and all those on here who insist on travel restrictions and closed borders at the sign of a new variant should reflect on this post .Sod red fkin zones etc
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 47,938
    dixiedean said:

    Have we done this?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/31/uk-governments-covid-advisers-enduring-tidal-waves-of-abuse

    This is totally unacceptable. Perhaps, if the government wanted to do something worthwhile to restore its faded popularity in 2022, a crackdown on abuse and threats, which a minority appear to have.grown accustomed to resorting to as their "right", could be one?
    Would have to be without fear or favour, mind, so probably not.

    Most of us won't have done. Won't go bail for one or two on here.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,120
    Ally_B1 said:

    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    It's not too often I cite another poster but @kinabalu has got it wrong (whether for the first time or not, I'll leave to others).

    The world has been changed by the pandemic, probably irrevocably and wishing desperately for a return to the heady days of 2019 isn't going to make it happen. That genie's not going back in the bottle.

    For hundreds of thousands, the world of work has been transformed - the age of the soul-destroying commute is over and replaced by a new "hybrid" style of office and home working with all that flows from that including different and evolving forms of team building, relationship building and management.

    The retail experience is different - "going to the shops" is no longer the be-all and end-all. So much can and is being done online and the expansion of home delivery options for almost everything has been one of the revolutionary aspects of the past two years.

    It's also worth celebrating human ingenuity and technological success - we have saved so many and made so much of life bearable through this. The production of vaccines has been remarkable - hopefully it will spur progress in other areas such as alleviating cancer and dementia.

    Foe those who have suffered and lost loved ones and friends, all I can offer are my sympathies. Death has touched too many families through this and we mustn't lose sight of that.

    Ah, I think you've taken my post in a way I didn't intend. I'm not making light of the pandemic or saying it will leave no mark. It surely will. What I mainly meant is we can (imo) say goodbye to lockdowns and NPIs. All of that. Covid will soon be over (here) as a big part of our lives. It's back to how we were in this sense. But of course there'll be a legacy in many areas, eg in commerce and medicine. And of course there has been personal loss for many and lasting grief.
    I saw these comments and nodded, so much has changed in the last two years. May I start by wishing all of you a great 2022. I rarely post but I read comments here maybe three or four times a day. I recognise the pain and suffering that many have and I share my story as it all comes about from the impact that this virus has had on our lives.

    So far this evening I have received New Year greetings from my sons in Melbourne, Australia and my wife in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. In a few hours, Captain Morgan permitting, I will get to send them mine. I came back to the UK in March 2020 to sell our flat, located in a "much sought after part of England's second city"; two days before lockdown and now almost two years have now passed since I last saw my wife in person. Our seventh wedding anniversary is in two days time. I am trapped in this "plaque pit of a country" unable to return because the flat hasn't yet sold despite the price being dropped 10% from pre-pandemic prices and is now priced at what it was remortgaged for 13 years ago. The mortgage company wants it sold asap as the interest only mortgage has expired and I can't remortgage because I no longer meet lending requirements. I suspect people no longer need to live close to work to save commuting and that is part of my problem. My Malaysia visa is no longer valid and I will have to jump through hoops to be allowed back there whilst access to that country is on hold. In 2022 my oldest son is expecting to get married at Easter, my wife wants me back so I can take her to the wedding; in Australia. As of this minute neither I nor my wife would be allowed into Australia, bar jumping over compassionate hurdles, which having put on over 20kg since my return here may be an athletic feat I am not up to at my age. The only vaguely positive thing I can think of for 2021 was that when my best friend of some 40 years died I was able to go to his funeral in person. On reflection I doubt neither of us would see that as a positive. I terminated my UK broadband and TV licence in 2019, not expecting to need them when I returned to the UK for a "short stay". I suppose another possible positive is that the last TV programme I watched was in November 2019. Have I missed anything? Christmas 2021 was the worst in my life, the first time I have been alone, away from any family or friends. (Last year I was delivering meals to lonely people on Christmas Day but my church didn't organise that for this year, thanks to covid concerns).

    I know some who post here are going through a bad time or who have relatives that are. For me, I am going to focus on the great things I have to look forward to in 2022 rather than dwell on the past year and I hope you all can do similar. In the meantime I hear the Captain calling me.
    Wow, that is quite a story. Sorry to hear about it all. Puts things in perspective.

    I don't know the full details of your troubles with your flat but have you considered putting it in an auction? I've sold properties in auction before; it has a stigma attached to it but it shouldn't have. You don't have the agony of people pulling out. If you get it right and have a bit of luck on your side, then you can actually exceed the market value.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,159
    REST IN PEACE: Betty White, a legendary TV actress known for her iconic roles in "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" and "The Golden Girls," has died, according to multiple reports. She was 99. https://bit.ly/3pIp29T https://twitter.com/fox5dc/status/1477001597293060102/photo/1
  • TOPPING said:

    I've got a nice 2012 Barolo (Curto, Arborina) to enjoy by myself this evening. It's 15% abv so apologies if I slur later.

    Blimey 15%. Fino sherry is 18% I'm surprised you can taste the wine.

    But enjoy, obvs.
    I've just tried it. It's clearly strong, but also really fruity. Mostly cherry. And then there's a bit of burnt toast. Surprisingly mellow aftertaste.

    I could be drunk soonish.
    Fish for supper, so Picpoul de Pinet. But there is Ardbeg to see in the New Year.

    Last year I was mourning a friend who died in Cambodia, I had just seen a video of his funeral. And we were back in lockdown. I'm still struggling with midwinter blues, but at least I can go to parkrun tomorrow. And I'm starting to make travel plans.
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