I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
I really wish people like you would listen to cries of anguish when you hear them.
It's not just about parties being called off, it's about the unfairness of being a twenty something in a junior job, maybe in a four person house share and being cooped up in your bedroom working. Sometimes in the heat of summer with no air con, or spending your own (hard earned pennies) keeping the place warm in winter. The oppressiveness of your living room suddenly becoming your office. The inability to switch off from work, because your home is work and work is your home.
It's about feeling unable to change jobs (how do you onboard with a new team virtually, when you're joining a new team who used to know each other pre pandemic?), it's about wondering how you're going to learn from your "peers" when your peers are just a zoom call now.
It's about being afraid to take the train back across the country to see your gran in case someone coughs in your face and you pass it on to her. It's about not being able to take a holiday because you can't afford the possibility of a 10 day quarantine hotel, or even the cost of private PCR tests before and after you travel.
It's about body issues from weight gain, gyms closed (or perhaps being afraid to go to the gym), it's about drinking too much because of the stress of just watching the non-stop doom porn that the news has become, night after night.
It's about wondering when this will ever end.
The pandemic has been brutal on many of us, and some more than others. Some people - the older, more established ones, with families, big houses, steady jobs and gardens, have prospered. Others have silently screamed in despair.
Very powerfully and evocatively written - thank you.
Not disagreeing with the general point that you're making, but in case it helps, as an employer I've found that recruitment and onboarding at a distance can really work well. It's helped by the fact that everyone else is working from home, so only interacting with people by Zoom has become the norm. I've recruited people I've never met and found they slotted into the work pattern just as well as people did when they came in to work - after a year there are two of my best people who I've just met once, a few months ago, and I have productive colleagues who I've never met at all.
Don't assume you won't be welcomed and integrated in a new job just because you're at a distance. It depends on the type of work, of course, but for office work it doesn't matter that much whether you can see someone's feet in a meeting.
With a bit of luck all this will be history soon anyway, of course, but in the meantime do look around for what job suits you best, and enjoy the oncoming freedom.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Even if the 'know nothings' haven't got a better feel, they are the ones we elect to represent us.
For better or worse that is the democratic, parliamentarian system.
There really is some over the top stuff on here tonight. You would think it was VE Day or summat.
Do you mean you think people are getting ahead of themselves or do you think it's no big deal?
If it does turn out that things are going to be okay re omicron, I'd suggest that is certainly cause for a big celebration. Perhaps it's not as big as some historical events, but if our politicians - or at least some of them - have managed to get past the fear of COVID, that is quite important in my opinion.
The easy option was to bring in restrictions. That they held their nerve is worth celebrating, in my opinion.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
It's not an unfair point.
But it's not like it's been sunshine and rainbows either. It's been grim and fucking miserable, for two years. Even in the summer there, we got back some sort of normality, kind of, but with the covid cloud always hovering over, always threatening to piss on your chips.
I haven’t found it grim and miserable. It’s been fine - could be a lot worse. Just sub-optimal, and somehow not normal life.
It’s the not-normality that I think messes with peoples brains. A sense that things are in limbo, like a giant extended twixtmas. With this grows the suspicion, and fear, that some people would like to make this not-normality a permanent new-normal. Which by the way I am sure is ungrounded, but I understand the fear.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h I genuinely think trust in our scientific experts would be enhanced if they and their self-appointed cheerleaders would simply acknowledge when they got something wrong. Rather than go through these ridiculous contortions pretending they were right, when they obviously weren't.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
I really wish people like you would listen to cries of anguish when you hear them.
It's not just about parties being called off, it's about the unfairness of being a twenty something in a junior job, maybe in a four person house share and being cooped up in your bedroom working. Sometimes in the heat of summer with no air con, or spending your own (hard earned pennies) keeping the place warm in winter. The oppressiveness of your living room suddenly becoming your office. The inability to switch off from work, because your home is work and work is your home.
It's about feeling unable to change jobs (how do you onboard with a new team virtually, when you're joining a new team who used to know each other pre pandemic?), it's about wondering how you're going to learn from your "peers" when your peers are just a zoom call now.
It's about being afraid to take the train back across the country to see your gran in case someone coughs in your face and you pass it on to her. It's about not being able to take a holiday because you can't afford the possibility of a 10 day quarantine hotel, or even the cost of private PCR tests before and after you travel.
It's about body issues from weight gain, gyms closed (or perhaps being afraid to go to the gym), it's about drinking too much because of the stress of just watching the non-stop doom porn that the news has become, night after night.
It's about wondering when this will ever end.
The pandemic has been brutal on many of us, and some more than others. Some people - the older, more established ones, with families, big houses, steady jobs and gardens, have prospered. Others have silently screamed in despair.
Very powerfully and evocatively written - thank you.
Not disagreeing with the general point that you're making, but in case it helps, as an employer I've found that recruitment and onboarding at a distance can really work well. It's helped by the fact that everyone else is working from home, so only interacting with people by Zoom has become the norm. I've recruited people I've never met and found they slotted into the work pattern just as well as people did when they came in to work - after a year there are two of my best people who I've just met once, a few months ago, and I have productive colleagues who I've never met at all.
Don't assume you won't be welcomed and integrated in a new job just because you're at a distance. It depends on the type of work, of course, but for office work it doesn't matter that much whether you can see someone's feet in a meeting.
With a bit of luck all this will be history soon anyway, of course, but in the meantime do look around for what job suits you best, and enjoy the oncoming freedom.
Indeed, "The Great Resignation" has allowed greater churn in employment than we have seen in some time.
There really is some over the top stuff on here tonight. You would think it was VE Day or summat.
Do you mean you think people are getting ahead of themselves or do you think it's no big deal?
If it does turn out that things are going to be okay re omicron, I'd suggest that is certainly cause for a big celebration. Perhaps it's not as big as some historical events, but if our politicians - or at least some of them - have managed to get past the fear of COVID, that is quite important in my opinion.
The easy option was to bring in restrictions. That they held their nerve is worth celebrating, in my opinion.
The former. The signs look encouraging to be sure don't get me wrong. And I'm delighted about that. But we are one-nil up at half time and several are on a lap of honour.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
I'm sorry but no, this is still not the case.
I've been acting normally, socially and work wise.
Life isn't as much fun when people jump out of their skin when you happen to be walking down the same aisle in the supermarket.
Life isn't as much fun if you're yet to meet the person you want to spend your life with. And can't because you don't have a digital piano, or the time and money for a dating app.
Life isn't as much fun when people are putting masks on to go to the lav or the bar in a pub (this one still annoys me). Or if someone asks you for your papers to go into a footy match. Or if you have to decide between your Xmas party and your family Xmas lunch.
Life simply is less fun whilst any legal regulations remain. Which is why we need to ditch them all for the general public.
I have to say, the scientists have not been great. At the start of the pandemic they advised to let it go and try to get through as much of it in summer 2020. And now they've advised post-vaccines that a new variant could be a problem when it isn't.
Getting it wrong in one direction is perhaps understandable. Managing to get it wrong in both directions is pretty poor in my opinion.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
There really is some over the top stuff on here tonight. You would think it was VE Day or summat.
Do you mean you think people are getting ahead of themselves or do you think it's no big deal?
If it does turn out that things are going to be okay re omicron, I'd suggest that is certainly cause for a big celebration. Perhaps it's not as big as some historical events, but if our politicians - or at least some of them - have managed to get past the fear of COVID, that is quite important in my opinion.
The easy option was to bring in restrictions. That they held their nerve is worth celebrating, in my opinion.
The former. The signs look encouraging to be sure don't get me wrong. And I'm delighted about that. But we are one-nil up at half time and several are on a lap of honour.
Okay, perhaps it is still too early to say, but I'm fairly confident that we're not going to have big problems like last January.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
It's not as simple as that, though. I'm super happy tonight, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted. It's news in the right direction for the first time in weeks.
The sense that our freedom to enjoy life is at the whim of some politician, some civil servant/scientist, is tiring and overbearing. That just a rumour of a new variant could lead to another lockdown.
Much of my Christmas has been destroyed by Omichron. Delighted that Hogmanay might just pull through.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
But plenty of expert opinion and guidance from politicians that you'd be better staying in and doing nothing, and whether there's no legal restrictions or not, that's what they're really hoping you do.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
Well I am no fan of Labour, but I think you are being a little uncharacteristically naïve. The oppositions job is to oppose, and also they do not have a data that government has. If they were in government they might have done exactly the same. Perhaps you think they should have said "oh yes, The Clown is always right and we will support him every bit of the way"?
Half of patients in intensive care for covid are obese and 4x as many severely obese as should be in proportion to their numbers.
Completely unsurprising, and nearly two years of this rubbish, with all the lockdowns and gyms and leisure facilities repeatedly restricted or closed, won't have made the nation's tremendous weight and inactivity problems any better.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
I've been really quite surprised at too many friends in the medical profession who have, for example, suggested to me that wearing masks to go into shops forever might be 'the price we have to pay'.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
Yes, but it is caused by the virus, not by the minimal rules that we have.
Wishing that the virus never happened is fine and dandy, but it did happen.
Half of patients in intensive care for covid are obese and 4x as many severely obese as should be in proportion to their numbers.
Completely unsurprising, and nearly two years of this rubbish, with all the lockdowns and gyms and leisure facilities repeatedly restricted or closed, won't have made the nation's tremendous weight and inactivity problems any better.
Britain, collectively, is very, very fat.
The risk of being a fatty though has dropped off the agenda, same way as Boris' diet clearly has.
Half of patients in intensive care for covid are obese and 4x as many severely obese as should be in proportion to their numbers.
The failure of liberal Britain is:
1) being scared of calling out the actions of the clinically obese. 2) wanting instead to impose restriction on everyone else because of 1)
The discussion earlier on that Oxford risk website gave the impression that the primary risk factor is antivaxxer behaviour - much greater risk factors than 4x. I don't doubt that severe obesity is an issue, as well, but I'd like to see a comparison.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
But plenty of expert opinion and guidance from politicians that you'd be better staying in and doing nothing, and whether there's no legal restrictions or not, that's what they're really hoping you do.
Sure, and a lot of people are obviously doing so, but such decisions are purely their own.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
Well I am no fan of Labour, but I think you are being a little uncharacteristically naïve. The oppositions job is to oppose, and also they do not have a data that government has. If they were in government they might have done exactly the same. Perhaps you think they should have said "oh yes, The Clown is always right and we will support him every bit of the way"?
They should have been opposing proposals to fundamentally change the relationship of the state to the individual...
Half of patients in intensive care for covid are obese and 4x as many severely obese as should be in proportion to their numbers.
Completely unsurprising, and nearly two years of this rubbish, with all the lockdowns and gyms and leisure facilities repeatedly restricted or closed, won't have made the nation's tremendous weight and inactivity problems any better.
Britain, collectively, is very, very fat.
The risk of being a fatty though has dropped off the agenda, same way as Boris' diet clearly has.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
I've been really quite surprised at too many friends in the medical profession who have, for example, suggested to me that wearing masks to go into shops forever might be 'the price we have to pay'.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
The NHS is group think. It always was and always will be. It is the nature of the beast
Half of patients in intensive care for covid are obese and 4x as many severely obese as should be in proportion to their numbers.
Completely unsurprising, and nearly two years of this rubbish, with all the lockdowns and gyms and leisure facilities repeatedly restricted or closed, won't have made the nation's tremendous weight and inactivity problems any better.
Britain, collectively, is very, very fat.
The risk of being a fatty though has dropped off the agenda, same way as Boris' diet clearly has.
Mr J was going on about obesity in general in what? May 2020? when he came out of hospital. It does indeed seem to have been neglected of late, one regular exception being the medical column in Private Eye.
Half of patients in intensive care for covid are obese and 4x as many severely obese as should be in proportion to their numbers.
The failure of liberal Britain is:
1) being scared of calling out the actions of the clinically obese. 2) wanting instead to impose restriction on everyone else because of 1)
The discussion earlier on that Oxford risk website gave the impression that the primary risk factor is antivaxxer behaviour - much greater risk factors than 4x. I don't doubt that severe obesity is an issue, as well, but I'd like to see a comparison.
Obviously age and vaccinated are the biggest factors, but weight still has an impact, especially among younger people and young, unvaccinated and fat, that has some dramatic difference in risk factor versus young, unvaccinated and slim.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
I've been really quite surprised at too many friends in the medical profession who have, for example, suggested to me that wearing masks to go into shops forever might be 'the price we have to pay'.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
Really? I have never heard any of my colleagues suggest that.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
I've been really quite surprised at too many friends in the medical profession who have, for example, suggested to me that wearing masks to go into shops forever might be 'the price we have to pay'.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
Really? I have never heard any of my colleagues suggest that.
Yep, two of my closest friends suggested I was some sort of nutjob for suggesting we need to, at some point, and the sooner the better, get back to the status quo ante.
To be fair, one of them did see the point after he joked 'I suppose I'm never going to have to worry about not having a job and an income ho ho ho'.
Half of patients in intensive care for covid are obese and 4x as many severely obese as should be in proportion to their numbers.
The failure of liberal Britain is:
1) being scared of calling out the actions of the clinically obese. 2) wanting instead to impose restriction on everyone else because of 1)
The discussion earlier on that Oxford risk website gave the impression that the primary risk factor is antivaxxer behaviour - much greater risk factors than 4x. I don't doubt that severe obesity is an issue, as well, but I'd like to see a comparison.
Obviously age and vaccinated are the biggest factors, but weight still has an impact, especially among younger people and young, unvaccinated and fat, that has some dramatic difference in risk factor versus young, unvaccinated and slim.
Certainly the youngsters that I have seen in ICU with covid are nearly all obese, and not just a little bit.
The junk food diet delivered to sofa sitters is a real killer.
In a ‘significant early finding’ South Africa found hospital stays with Omicron were closer to 2.8 days than 8.5 days, so this is a major variable which could have a game-changing effect on whether the NHS can cope. Again, ministers are given no hint of this in the Sage briefing note. Length of hospital stay was one of the variables that allowed JP Morgan to critique the LSHTM modelling and come up with a less alarming scenario where no more restrictions would be needed.
The document is phrased as if Sage is collectively making the case for lockdown: in reality Sage is a huge number of experts most of whom wish to provide advice but not lobby government for anything. But over the pandemic, Sage advice has tended to be edited and summarised by those inside government lobbying for more restrictions.
Intriguing - who are these government insiders I wonder.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
But plenty of expert opinion and guidance from politicians that you'd be better staying in and doing nothing, and whether there's no legal restrictions or not, that's what they're really hoping you do.
Sure, and a lot of people are obviously doing so, but such decisions are purely their own.
Plus the Drakeford and Sturgeon bespoke restrictions, to be fair.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
Well I am no fan of Labour, but I think you are being a little uncharacteristically naïve. The oppositions job is to oppose, and also they do not have a data that government has. If they were in government they might have done exactly the same. Perhaps you think they should have said "oh yes, The Clown is always right and we will support him every bit of the way"?
And yet the opposition has done the opposite and supported or egged on the government into more restrictions, longer lockdowns and plan b. Remember it was Labour votes that got plan b across the line. It was Starmer calling for lockdowns and circuit breakers. They are the lockdown party because they blindly trust the "experts with big scary numbers" not to be bullshitting them as the DoH/SAGE just tried to do with the cabinet.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
I've been really quite surprised at too many friends in the medical profession who have, for example, suggested to me that wearing masks to go into shops forever might be 'the price we have to pay'.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
Really? I have never heard any of my colleagues suggest that.
Yep, two of my closest friends suggested I was some sort of nutjob for suggesting we need to, at some point, and the sooner the better, get back to the status quo ante.
To be fair, one of them did see the point after he joked 'I suppose I'm never going to have to worry about not having a job and an income ho ho ho'.
Doctors are very good at discovering new things to do, but I have not heard anyone at work say measures should be permanent, even in a hospital setting.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
I've been really quite surprised at too many friends in the medical profession who have, for example, suggested to me that wearing masks to go into shops forever might be 'the price we have to pay'.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
But plenty of expert opinion and guidance from politicians that you'd be better staying in and doing nothing, and whether there's no legal restrictions or not, that's what they're really hoping you do.
Sure, and a lot of people are obviously doing so, but such decisions are purely their own.
Plus the Drakeford and Sturgeon bespoke restrictions, to be fair.
Just saw the JCVI news. FFS. Liberal handwriting and British exceptionalism at its worst. How long are our children going to have to endure disrupted education?
What's the JCVI news? Something on vaccinating younger children?
They’ve said most under 12s are not getting jabbed
How many of them have had the lurgy already? Must be 80%+
Mind you, how sure are they that variant Pi / Omega / Orion won't affect children badly?
It is odd, SAGE seem to come up with every possible scenario of doom, whereas JCVI seem to plan for everything staying as it is at this instant.
No, it's the Andromeda strain that will get the children
Meghan, Duchess of Sussex could be called as witness in Prince Andrew's sex case.
Virginia Giuffre's lawyer says Duchess can be 'counted on to tell the truth' but said he is unlikely to depose the Queen 'out of respect'
The Duchess of Sussex could be called as a witness in the civil suit against Prince Andrew brought by Virginia Roberts Giuffre.
David Boies, the lawyer representing Ms Giuffre, told the Daily Beast that the Duchess of Sussex “is somebody we can count on to tell the truth”.
Mr Boies said there are three reasons she may be deposed: “One; she is in the U.S. so we have jurisdiction over her.”
“Two; she is somebody who obviously, at least for a period of time, was a close associate of Prince Andrew and hence is in a position to perhaps have seen what he did, and perhaps if not to have seen what he did to have heard people talk about it. Because of her past association with him, she may very well have important knowledge, and will certainly have some knowledge.”
“Three; she is somebody who we can count on to tell the truth. She checks all three boxes.”
Mr Boies stressed that no final decision had been made on who he would depose, stating that the Duchess is just “one of the people we are considering”.
But she didn't know him at the time of the allegations, did she?
Surely hearsay is inadmissible, so unless she witnessed it herself (unlikely given timeframes and, well, everything),on what basis could she be called?
Not getting involved in this case thanks, but on the subject of hearsay, as a general rule hearsay is not admissible as evidence against a defendant, but an important exception is hearsay evidence of what the defendant himself said about what he himself did.
So, for example in an English criminal case a policeman gives evidence of what the defendant X said about the doings of himself. This is evidence against X. But if the defendants are X and Y, what X said to the the policeman about what Y is NOT evidence against Y unless and until X repeats it in court as X and Y dish each other in a cutthroat defence.
There are a few other exceptions too. And in recent years it has widened a bit to include sometimes hearsay accounts of what witness Z said about defendant W before the witness got intimidated out of repeating it in court.
Thanks. I can hardly imagine Andrew and Meghan having detailed discussions about the whole Epstein thing, and particularly not conversations in which Andrew made self-incriminating comments about any aspects relevant to the court case.
And if Maghan says they did, in private, how can she be proven wrong?
This is simply the general question of the quality, credibility, nature and reliability of evidence. If this was easy there would be no litigation and few lawyers.
The issue is the reputational damage
I’m aware that it’s Andrew we are talking about (!!) but the headlines would not be good for the RF as a whole
I don’t know but I am sure the Mail and Sun would be happy to post a front page headlined “LIAR LIES” with a lovely photo of Megan……
And she would sue them for libel - they couldn’t prove it was a lie
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
But plenty of expert opinion and guidance from politicians that you'd be better staying in and doing nothing, and whether there's no legal restrictions or not, that's what they're really hoping you do.
Sure, and a lot of people are obviously doing so, but such decisions are purely their own.
Plus the Drakeford and Sturgeon bespoke restrictions, to be fair.
Look on the bright side!! Think of all the crazy awful relationships you are dodging, the drug addictions you will swerve by being in your room, the dull departmental meetings you aren’t having to stay awake through, and you don’t have to worry about the cost of having a family as you can’t meet anyone to settle down with……
I really do sympathise with you and hope that this is the end and you grasp every opportunity once it’s over to live a life, make mistakes, look stupid, laugh, wake up in good looking strangers beds and build a life and make memories rather than the hell it sounds you have been in.
I would rather have the regrets of my 20’s than not because the upsides are so much better.
And to think I spent my 20s doing models* in the office
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
I've been really quite surprised at too many friends in the medical profession who have, for example, suggested to me that wearing masks to go into shops forever might be 'the price we have to pay'.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
The NHS is group think. It always was and always will be. It is the nature of the beast
Total bollocks. NHS staff are as diverse in their opinions as any other sector of society.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
I've been really quite surprised at too many friends in the medical profession who have, for example, suggested to me that wearing masks to go into shops forever might be 'the price we have to pay'.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
Really? I have never heard any of my colleagues suggest that.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
But plenty of expert opinion and guidance from politicians that you'd be better staying in and doing nothing, and whether there's no legal restrictions or not, that's what they're really hoping you do.
Sure, and a lot of people are obviously doing so, but such decisions are purely their own.
This.
The general public has been asked to assess their own risk and modify their behaviours accordingly if they feel they are at risk or as a risk to others. I think the public has done a fantastic job these past few weeks using their own judgement and you have seen some of that impact in the data.
Britain will open up when it happens, it will take time for people to feel comfortable again and people should take their time getting to that point, to a point where they feel comfortable to do so. They should not at any point be castigated or criticized for taking their time.
There have been some positive developments these last couple of days but is it all over? Of course not, we are in for a tough time ahead but we will get their eventually.
Thread on the imminent Russian invasion of Ukraine. It looks like a WWI situation, where, having mobilised, the two choices are fight or put yourself at a permanent disadvantage. The difference is that this time around, there’s only one country - and one person - responsible.
https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1473362849871368195 75% of Russia’s total battalion tactical groups have been moved. Artillery, air defense units, tanks, APCs, bridge-laying equipment, mine clearers, armored excavators, engineering equipment, refueling, huge amount of logistics, etc. Follow @RALee85 for details
Putin really is a total arse.
Other than the whole nukes thing, it would be a great time for China to invade Russia...
Or Taiwan…
China has been invading Russia for a while now. Just stealthily. They are the ones exploiting the Russian Far East - there are few Russians there to do so or to prevent the Chinese and North Koreans from doing so
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
Says an old git I'm alright jack PBer who has forgotten or never knew the psychologically oppressive environment that younger people have had to live under regardless of whether they can "go down the pub" or not.
Just the news of a 5pm news conference can be seriously anxiety-inducing for many, especially younger people.
You went stir crazy Topping. They are just wimps nowadays. Had it too soft all their lives till now. They need to man up.
Just saw the JCVI news. FFS. Liberal handwriting and British exceptionalism at its worst. How long are our children going to have to endure disrupted education?
What's the JCVI news? Something on vaccinating younger children?
They’ve said most under 12s are not getting jabbed
How many of them have had the lurgy already? Must be 80%+
Mind you, how sure are they that variant Pi / Omega / Orion won't affect children badly?
It is odd, SAGE seem to come up with every possible scenario of doom, whereas JCVI seem to plan for everything staying as it is at this instant.
No, it's the Andromeda strain that will get the children
Meghan, Duchess of Sussex could be called as witness in Prince Andrew's sex case.
Virginia Giuffre's lawyer says Duchess can be 'counted on to tell the truth' but said he is unlikely to depose the Queen 'out of respect'
The Duchess of Sussex could be called as a witness in the civil suit against Prince Andrew brought by Virginia Roberts Giuffre.
David Boies, the lawyer representing Ms Giuffre, told the Daily Beast that the Duchess of Sussex “is somebody we can count on to tell the truth”.
Mr Boies said there are three reasons she may be deposed: “One; she is in the U.S. so we have jurisdiction over her.”
“Two; she is somebody who obviously, at least for a period of time, was a close associate of Prince Andrew and hence is in a position to perhaps have seen what he did, and perhaps if not to have seen what he did to have heard people talk about it. Because of her past association with him, she may very well have important knowledge, and will certainly have some knowledge.”
“Three; she is somebody who we can count on to tell the truth. She checks all three boxes.”
Mr Boies stressed that no final decision had been made on who he would depose, stating that the Duchess is just “one of the people we are considering”.
But she didn't know him at the time of the allegations, did she?
Surely hearsay is inadmissible, so unless she witnessed it herself (unlikely given timeframes and, well, everything),on what basis could she be called?
Not getting involved in this case thanks, but on the subject of hearsay, as a general rule hearsay is not admissible as evidence against a defendant, but an important exception is hearsay evidence of what the defendant himself said about what he himself did.
So, for example in an English criminal case a policeman gives evidence of what the defendant X said about the doings of himself. This is evidence against X. But if the defendants are X and Y, what X said to the the policeman about what Y is NOT evidence against Y unless and until X repeats it in court as X and Y dish each other in a cutthroat defence.
There are a few other exceptions too. And in recent years it has widened a bit to include sometimes hearsay accounts of what witness Z said about defendant W before the witness got intimidated out of repeating it in court.
Thanks. I can hardly imagine Andrew and Meghan having detailed discussions about the whole Epstein thing, and particularly not conversations in which Andrew made self-incriminating comments about any aspects relevant to the court case.
And if Maghan says they did, in private, how can she be proven wrong?
This is simply the general question of the quality, credibility, nature and reliability of evidence. If this was easy there would be no litigation and few lawyers.
The issue is the reputational damage
I’m aware that it’s Andrew we are talking about (!!) but the headlines would not be good for the RF as a whole
I don’t know but I am sure the Mail and Sun would be happy to post a front page headlined “LIAR LIES” with a lovely photo of Megan……
Yeah, but the trial is in the USA. Where strangely enough, Andy is NOT considered Meghan's moral superior.
Over her, she's basically just Harry's wife. And the years of effort that The Firm AND the UK media establishment spent building him up - along with his brother - as a paragon of royal virtue and the Windsor brand means that, over here, he - and thus she - are regarded in a generally favorable light. Much more so, anyway, than among most PBers and many (esp. older) UKers.
Boies is rattling several cages, and judging from PB commentary he must be pleased with the effects so far.
He’s very subtly blackmailing Andrew. The evidential value Meghan has is minimal, but the damage she could do is massive
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h I genuinely think trust in our scientific experts would be enhanced if they and their self-appointed cheerleaders would simply acknowledge when they got something wrong. Rather than go through these ridiculous contortions pretending they were right, when they obviously weren't.
Damn, it’s one of those weird days where one finds himself in agreement with Dan Hodges.
My understanding dirty leeds, wolves and Liverpool are the 3 teams where basically everybody is jabbed up.
Same, as I understand it at Liverpool, anyone who had doubts about getting jabbed were spoken to by Klopp, Jordan Henderson, and by NHS/Vaccine staff.
It has worked.
While we have the PFA coming out with total horseshit.....trying to excuse the inexcusable.
I'm not sure the footballers are necessarily wrong, per se.
Elite top-level athletes are basically superbeings whose bodies function differently from us mere mortals, in terms of all sorts of things including lung capacity, heart function, etc, that might be related to COVID symptons. In addition, top-level sport is a game of very fine margins, and a small drop-off in performance can make huge differences to results, and hence earnings potential for the athletes concerned. It is possible that the vaccines cause effects that aren't noticeable to the general population, but which could either wreck the career of an elite athlete, or just reduce the edge they have over their competition to a level that we wouldn't notice, but which they would find unacceptable. The point being that the vaccines haven't been formally tested on groups that are sufficiently similar to them for them to be comfortable that they are not just safe, but cause no side effects whatsoever. They could therefore be justified in principle if they'd prefer to take their chances with the virus rather than the vaccines.
Unfortunately, the societal implications of them refusing the vaccines are potentially huge, given their unfortunately impossible-to-shift status as role models to a large proportion of people across the country, many of them young and impressionable.
Just saw the JCVI news. FFS. Liberal handwriting and British exceptionalism at its worst. How long are our children going to have to endure disrupted education?
What's the JCVI news? Something on vaccinating younger children?
They’ve said most under 12s are not getting jabbed
How many of them have had the lurgy already? Must be 80%+
Mind you, how sure are they that variant Pi / Omega / Orion won't affect children badly?
It is odd, SAGE seem to come up with every possible scenario of doom, whereas JCVI seem to plan for everything staying as it is at this instant.
No, it's the Andromeda strain that will get the children
Meghan, Duchess of Sussex could be called as witness in Prince Andrew's sex case.
Virginia Giuffre's lawyer says Duchess can be 'counted on to tell the truth' but said he is unlikely to depose the Queen 'out of respect'
The Duchess of Sussex could be called as a witness in the civil suit against Prince Andrew brought by Virginia Roberts Giuffre.
David Boies, the lawyer representing Ms Giuffre, told the Daily Beast that the Duchess of Sussex “is somebody we can count on to tell the truth”.
Mr Boies said there are three reasons she may be deposed: “One; she is in the U.S. so we have jurisdiction over her.”
“Two; she is somebody who obviously, at least for a period of time, was a close associate of Prince Andrew and hence is in a position to perhaps have seen what he did, and perhaps if not to have seen what he did to have heard people talk about it. Because of her past association with him, she may very well have important knowledge, and will certainly have some knowledge.”
“Three; she is somebody who we can count on to tell the truth. She checks all three boxes.”
Mr Boies stressed that no final decision had been made on who he would depose, stating that the Duchess is just “one of the people we are considering”.
But she didn't know him at the time of the allegations, did she?
Surely hearsay is inadmissible, so unless she witnessed it herself (unlikely given timeframes and, well, everything),on what basis could she be called?
Not getting involved in this case thanks, but on the subject of hearsay, as a general rule hearsay is not admissible as evidence against a defendant, but an important exception is hearsay evidence of what the defendant himself said about what he himself did.
So, for example in an English criminal case a policeman gives evidence of what the defendant X said about the doings of himself. This is evidence against X. But if the defendants are X and Y, what X said to the the policeman about what Y is NOT evidence against Y unless and until X repeats it in court as X and Y dish each other in a cutthroat defence.
There are a few other exceptions too. And in recent years it has widened a bit to include sometimes hearsay accounts of what witness Z said about defendant W before the witness got intimidated out of repeating it in court.
Thanks. I can hardly imagine Andrew and Meghan having detailed discussions about the whole Epstein thing, and particularly not conversations in which Andrew made self-incriminating comments about any aspects relevant to the court case.
And if Maghan says they did, in private, how can she be proven wrong?
This is simply the general question of the quality, credibility, nature and reliability of evidence. If this was easy there would be no litigation and few lawyers.
The issue is the reputational damage
I’m aware that it’s Andrew we are talking about (!!) but the headlines would not be good for the RF as a whole
I don’t know but I am sure the Mail and Sun would be happy to post a front page headlined “LIAR LIES” with a lovely photo of Megan……
And she would sue them for libel - they couldn’t prove it was a lie
You are of course correct (assuming of course that they didn’t just print a giant headline of “liar lies” and then coincidentally a separate story with small headline about Meghan’s new book, “war and peace” about a humble ginger prince who kills all the bad men who don’t want to educate women and then goes on to create world peace, guided by his brilliant wife, through his mental health foundation and a giant photo of her beatitude to accompany the smaller story…..) however as much as they can’t prove it’s a lie you could equally argue her testimony can’t be proved as the truth surely.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
Yes, but it is caused by the virus, not by the minimal rules that we have.
Wishing that the virus never happened is fine and dandy, but it did happen.
Which is why the rules at every stage need to be interrogated to ensure they are absolutely necessary.
Not just waved through by the medical profession. Just in case.
Just saw the JCVI news. FFS. Liberal handwriting and British exceptionalism at its worst. How long are our children going to have to endure disrupted education?
What's the JCVI news? Something on vaccinating younger children?
They’ve said most under 12s are not getting jabbed
How many of them have had the lurgy already? Must be 80%+
Mind you, how sure are they that variant Pi / Omega / Orion won't affect children badly?
It is odd, SAGE seem to come up with every possible scenario of doom, whereas JCVI seem to plan for everything staying as it is at this instant.
No, it's the Andromeda strain that will get the children
Meghan, Duchess of Sussex could be called as witness in Prince Andrew's sex case.
Virginia Giuffre's lawyer says Duchess can be 'counted on to tell the truth' but said he is unlikely to depose the Queen 'out of respect'
The Duchess of Sussex could be called as a witness in the civil suit against Prince Andrew brought by Virginia Roberts Giuffre.
David Boies, the lawyer representing Ms Giuffre, told the Daily Beast that the Duchess of Sussex “is somebody we can count on to tell the truth”.
Mr Boies said there are three reasons she may be deposed: “One; she is in the U.S. so we have jurisdiction over her.”
“Two; she is somebody who obviously, at least for a period of time, was a close associate of Prince Andrew and hence is in a position to perhaps have seen what he did, and perhaps if not to have seen what he did to have heard people talk about it. Because of her past association with him, she may very well have important knowledge, and will certainly have some knowledge.”
“Three; she is somebody who we can count on to tell the truth. She checks all three boxes.”
Mr Boies stressed that no final decision had been made on who he would depose, stating that the Duchess is just “one of the people we are considering”.
But she didn't know him at the time of the allegations, did she?
Surely hearsay is inadmissible, so unless she witnessed it herself (unlikely given timeframes and, well, everything),on what basis could she be called?
Not getting involved in this case thanks, but on the subject of hearsay, as a general rule hearsay is not admissible as evidence against a defendant, but an important exception is hearsay evidence of what the defendant himself said about what he himself did.
So, for example in an English criminal case a policeman gives evidence of what the defendant X said about the doings of himself. This is evidence against X. But if the defendants are X and Y, what X said to the the policeman about what Y is NOT evidence against Y unless and until X repeats it in court as X and Y dish each other in a cutthroat defence.
There are a few other exceptions too. And in recent years it has widened a bit to include sometimes hearsay accounts of what witness Z said about defendant W before the witness got intimidated out of repeating it in court.
Thanks. I can hardly imagine Andrew and Meghan having detailed discussions about the whole Epstein thing, and particularly not conversations in which Andrew made self-incriminating comments about any aspects relevant to the court case.
And if Maghan says they did, in private, how can she be proven wrong?
This is simply the general question of the quality, credibility, nature and reliability of evidence. If this was easy there would be no litigation and few lawyers.
The issue is the reputational damage
I’m aware that it’s Andrew we are talking about (!!) but the headlines would not be good for the RF as a whole
I don’t know but I am sure the Mail and Sun would be happy to post a front page headlined “LIAR LIES” with a lovely photo of Megan……
Yeah, but the trial is in the USA. Where strangely enough, Andy is NOT considered Meghan's moral superior.
Over her, she's basically just Harry's wife. And the years of effort that The Firm AND the UK media establishment spent building him up - along with his brother - as a paragon of royal virtue and the Windsor brand means that, over here, he - and thus she - are regarded in a generally favorable light. Much more so, anyway, than among most PBers and many (esp. older) UKers.
Boies is rattling several cages, and judging from PB commentary he must be pleased with the effects so far.
It would be very interesting - if it turned out Meghan and Andrew knew each other 25 years ago. But otherwise…
We shall see . . . though probably though a glass darkly.
Remember, likes of you & me are NOT the targets of Boies's legal-message strategy.
Also remember that this is the same House of Windsor that consigned the last Tsar of Russia & family to their fate in order to protect . . . wait for it . . . the House of Windsor.
Russia was nothing.
If it’s grade A shitty behaviour you are looking for them you should read up on the last Duke of Albany
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
I am not calling for rules, just pointing out that the rules that we have do not constitute preventing people from socialising, drinking, dancing or travelling. Anyone who feels locked down is only locking themselves down. There is no rule stopping people enjoying themselves.
There is the oppressive atmosphere. You in the medical profession should be aware of that.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
Yes, but it is caused by the virus, not by the minimal rules that we have.
Wishing that the virus never happened is fine and dandy, but it did happen.
Which is why the rules at every stage need to be interrogated to ensure they are absolutely necessary.
Not just waved through by the medical profession. Just in case.
They haven't been!
SAGE is not just doctors either, it is constituted by experts appointed by the government. It is not some self selecting medical body.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lpropriate to qoute an an overreacting ckdown.
What a load of guff.
Until the summer it was against the law to have 7 people in my house.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lpropriate to qoute an an overreacting ckdown.
What a load of guff.
Until the summer it was against the law to have 7 people in my house.
My personal favorites are "Old Man Pudding" (with Malc as his chief elf?) and "Tabitha the Christmas Hedgehog" (wonder who takes precedence in the Debatable Lands?)
LOL. Old Nick for Cornwall seems about right. Can't really comment on the rest save in all my years in Plymouth I never heard of Joel Noel
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
Early days yet, mind.
Yes indeed
@MaxPB! Remember the last time I had to warn you about breaking the Second Law of Covid Hubris - we got Omicron about a week later...
Well I'm not going to attack the scientists for seemingly getting it wrong, everyone gets stuff wrong.
I don't get why people can't just be happy that we're seemingly avoiding another lockdown and things aren't as bad as they seemed. I'm delighted
Whilst I would agree with you to some extent I found the Media show on Radio 4 this evening with 3 scientists and the FT expert to be utterly infuriating. They were treating lockdown and other measures as if they had no cost at all. Basically attacking Johnson for not locking down and expressing some incredulity at the idea he might not kindly follow what the scientists have been recommending. It needs to be drummed into these people that the cure can sometimes cause more deaths than the disease. The operations was a success but the patient died is no way to run Government policy.
I can't believe I am saying this but Blair on PM afterwards was a breath of fresh air. Measured and putting everything into context and commenting that not locking down was exactly the right decision. For all that I am no great fan, at least he gets it.
Well I'm not going to attack the scientists for seemingly getting it wrong, everyone gets stuff wrong.
I don't get why people can't just be happy that we're seemingly avoiding another lockdown and things aren't as bad as they seemed. I'm delighted
I think people were fed up of being ruled by data models, CHB, and finally we've got elected representatives with enough of a backbone to stand up to the big scary numbers.
Fraser Nelson's latest article is instructive, as I've been saying I don't particularly blame the scientists, it's the unknown officials within the DoH who have been pushing the lockdown option by selectively having negative inputs used for models, by editing the SAGE evidence to make it seem like lockdown is the only option etc...
There's a lot of people for whom lockdown is no serious imposition and they are the ones putting the SAGE reports together. The cabinet stood up to the "lockdown just in case" consensus and were right to do so.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
Early days yet, mind.
Yes indeed
@MaxPB! Remember the last time I had to warn you about breaking the Second Law of Covid Hubris - we got Omicron about a week later...
Let our cheers be muted and wary, for now
If our politicians didn't run around like headless chickens at the drop of a hat Omicron would barely have registered as an issue.
There really is some over the top stuff on here tonight. You would think it was VE Day or summat.
Do you mean you think people are getting ahead of themselves or do you think it's no big deal?
If it does turn out that things are going to be okay re omicron, I'd suggest that is certainly cause for a big celebration. Perhaps it's not as big as some historical events, but if our politicians - or at least some of them - have managed to get past the fear of COVID, that is quite important in my opinion.
The easy option was to bring in restrictions. That they held their nerve is worth celebrating, in my opinion.
The former. The signs look encouraging to be sure don't get me wrong. And I'm delighted about that. But we are one-nil up at half time and several are on a lap of honour.
Okay, perhaps it is still too early to say, but I'm fairly confident that we're not going to have big problems like last January.
No, but with the vaccines I don't see that we ever were going to be like last January. However, we still haven't had the Christmas inter-generational and inter-regional mixing. And we are on 100k cases a day. When, anecdotally, folk are avoiding testing to get their Xmas. Sorry to be the voice of caution here, but we aren't out of the woods yet.
Watching the Northern Ireland Executive announce what were fairly modest restrictions today was instructive.
The implication was if London had gave them cash so they could chuck it out to support various sectors they'd have shut more shit down.
So its now money, or as it might be better known, the economy.
Just want to say thank you to the Treasury for actually forcing the politicians, many of whom are delightfully interventionist, to think and not just jump. Bearing in mind we have the slowest booster programme of any home nation, c2-3 weeks behind, they should be forced to think, not least why they didnt get that together sooner.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
It's not an unfair point.
But it's not like it's been sunshine and rainbows either. It's been grim and fucking miserable, for two years. Even in the summer there, we got back some sort of normality, kind of, but with the covid cloud always hovering over, always threatening to piss on your chips.
I haven’t found it grim and miserable. It’s been fine - could be a lot worse. Just sub-optimal, and somehow not normal life.
It’s the not-normality that I think messes with peoples brains. A sense that things are in limbo, like a giant extended twixtmas. With this grows the suspicion, and fear, that some people would like to make this not-normality a permanent new-normal. Which by the way I am sure is ungrounded, but I understand the fear.
Well we discovered that about 30% of Britons are introverted, Aspergery puritans in a sour mood, who would quite like nightclubs and casinos closed FOREVER, and all pubs shut at 7.39pm, just in case someone, somewhere, is feeling happy, or having a cheeky snog
There really is some over the top stuff on here tonight. You would think it was VE Day or summat.
Do you mean you think people are getting ahead of themselves or do you think it's no big deal?
If it does turn out that things are going to be okay re omicron, I'd suggest that is certainly cause for a big celebration. Perhaps it's not as big as some historical events, but if our politicians - or at least some of them - have managed to get past the fear of COVID, that is quite important in my opinion.
The easy option was to bring in restrictions. That they held their nerve is worth celebrating, in my opinion.
The former. The signs look encouraging to be sure don't get me wrong. And I'm delighted about that. But we are one-nil up at half time and several are on a lap of honour.
Okay, perhaps it is still too early to say, but I'm fairly confident that we're not going to have big problems like last January.
No, but with the vaccines I don't see that we ever were going to be like last January. However, we still haven't had the Christmas inter-generational and inter-regional mixing. And we are on 100k cases a day. When, anecdotally, folk are avoiding testing to get their Xmas. Sorry to be the voice of caution here, but we aren't out of the woods yet.
The question is how much testing is being done. My understanding, awaiting confirmation from someone who does have insight, is thats its through the roof so how much of the cases are we just picking up what previously we didn't because the testing numbers were lower.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
Early days yet, mind.
Yes indeed
@MaxPB! Remember the last time I had to warn you about breaking the Second Law of Covid Hubris - we got Omicron about a week later...
Let our cheers be muted and wary, for now
If our politicians didn't run around like headless chickens at the drop of a hat Omicron would barely have registered as an issue.
Just catching up on things, but do you see any chance of new restrictions being agreed in England despite this data?
I'm not convinced this will see the likes of Gove drop the prospect of new measures. So I worry as to what their reaction will be if cases spike dramatically from here in the New Year.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
Well I am no fan of Labour, but I think you are being a little uncharacteristically naïve. The oppositions job is to oppose, and also they do not have a data that government has. If they were in government they might have done exactly the same. Perhaps you think they should have said "oh yes, The Clown is always right and we will support him every bit of the way"?
This is jejune in the extreme
The spirit and ethos of Labour - like the Dems in America - is now joyless, puritan and tending to authoritarianism. Cancellation not Liberation. NO rather than YES. DON'T SAY THAT rather than LET IT ALL HANG OUT
It is very sad. I miss the old sexy liberated permissive Left. But it is gone forever, replaced by a bunch of ugly, cat's-arse-mouthed prudes
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
It's not an unfair point.
But it's not like it's been sunshine and rainbows either. It's been grim and fucking miserable, for two years. Even in the summer there, we got back some sort of normality, kind of, but with the covid cloud always hovering over, always threatening to piss on your chips.
I haven’t found it grim and miserable. It’s been fine - could be a lot worse. Just sub-optimal, and somehow not normal life.
It’s the not-normality that I think messes with peoples brains. A sense that things are in limbo, like a giant extended twixtmas. With this grows the suspicion, and fear, that some people would like to make this not-normality a permanent new-normal. Which by the way I am sure is ungrounded, but I understand the fear.
Well we discovered that about 30% of Britons are introverted, Aspergery puritans in a sour mood, who would quite like nightclubs and casinos closed FOREVER, and all pubs shut at 7.39pm, just in case someone, somewhere, is feeling happy, or having a cheeky snog
Indeed, and it seems like that geeky sad underclass have their hands at the levers of power within the civil service. They're the ones pushing the SAGE models to exclude any positive data and selectively editing their findings into lockdown. They want lockdown.
My personal favorites are "Old Man Pudding" (with Malc as his chief elf?) and "Tabitha the Christmas Hedgehog" (wonder who takes precedence in the Debatable Lands?)
LOL. Old Nick for Cornwall seems about right. Can't really comment on the rest save in all my years in Plymouth I never heard of Joel Noel
Well I'm not going to attack the scientists for seemingly getting it wrong, everyone gets stuff wrong.
I don't get why people can't just be happy that we're seemingly avoiding another lockdown and things aren't as bad as they seemed. I'm delighted
Whilst I would agree with you to some extent I found the Media show on Radio 4 this evening with 3 scientists and the FT expert to be utterly infuriating. They were treating lockdown and other measures as if they had no cost at all. Basically attacking Johnson for not locking down and expressing some incredulity at the idea he might not kindly follow what the scientists have been recommending. It needs to be drummed into these people that the cure can sometimes cause more deaths than the disease. The operations was a success but the patient died is no way to run Government policy.
I can't believe I am saying this but Blair on PM afterwards was a breath of fresh air. Measured and putting everything into context and commenting that not locking down was exactly the right decision. For all that I am no great fan, at least he gets it.
As with so many things nowadays, the agenda is often driven by those with the most extreme opinions, amplified by competing media outlets looking to scare and sensationalise in order to win attention. Which is why, should Omicron not turn out to be the end of the world, we may nonetheless anticipate that the likes of Pagel and Michie will resurface the moment the next scary variant appears, and that their prophecies of doom and demands for lockdowns (followed by quite literally endless social distancing and gagging) will be lapped up and uncritically disseminated to the nation, with highly selective references to the times when disasters happened and none at all to the occasions when they failed to materialise.
We may have years of rolling variant panics being ramped up by these people before we're finally allowed to put Covid behind us.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
Yea, it generally works except when the politicians really do know nothing and when their leader would be better placed as a crowd pleaser at Billy Smart's.
Under Labour "following the science" Christmas would have been cancelled again and we'd be in lockdown until the end of January at least. We'd never have properly got rid of restrictions either in July. Sometimes not being dazzled by experts armed with big numbers is good for us, in fact I'd say that more than sometimes experts wielding big numbers deserve scepticism.
Early days yet, mind.
Yes indeed
@MaxPB! Remember the last time I had to warn you about breaking the Second Law of Covid Hubris - we got Omicron about a week later...
Let our cheers be muted and wary, for now
If our politicians didn't run around like headless chickens at the drop of a hat Omicron would barely have registered as an issue.
Just catching up on things, but do you see any chance of new restrictions being agreed in England despite this data?
I'm not convinced this will see the likes of Gove drop the prospect of new measures. So I worry as to what their reaction will be if cases spike dramatically from here in the New Year.
Well I'm not going to attack the scientists for seemingly getting it wrong, everyone gets stuff wrong.
I don't get why people can't just be happy that we're seemingly avoiding another lockdown and things aren't as bad as they seemed. I'm delighted
Whilst I would agree with you to some extent I found the Media show on Radio 4 this evening with 3 scientists and the FT expert to be utterly infuriating. They were treating lockdown and other measures as if they had no cost at all. Basically attacking Johnson for not locking down and expressing some incredulity at the idea he might not kindly follow what the scientists have been recommending. It needs to be drummed into these people that the cure can sometimes cause more deaths than the disease. The operations was a success but the patient died is no way to run Government policy.
I can't believe I am saying this but Blair on PM afterwards was a breath of fresh air. Measured and putting everything into context and commenting that not locking down was exactly the right decision. For all that I am no great fan, at least he gets it.
That's all true, but in the last three lockdown cycles, the attempt to avoid lockdown on the upswing in the UK (especially in England) looks like it caused a longer, harder lockdown on the downswing. If you let cases get too high, that means that you have to work harder to get them to fall back again.
There are reasonable reasons to think that this cycle might be different, and anyone sensible will hope that it is. There are still a lot of contact pings going round though (especially in the health system) and we're not home and dry yet. Though the signs are hopeful, and whatever happens next, there's reason to hope this will be over sooner than we might have thought.
None of this necessarily discredits the boffins, though. To take a betting analogy; more restrictions earlier could have been the value bet. This time it hasn't come in, but if you make enough value bets, you win overall. The approach demanded by Conservative backbenchers could be (not is, but could be) a foolish bet that happens to win. Nice, and there might be information there. But if you keep making them, you lose your shirt.
There really is some over the top stuff on here tonight. You would think it was VE Day or summat.
Do you mean you think people are getting ahead of themselves or do you think it's no big deal?
If it does turn out that things are going to be okay re omicron, I'd suggest that is certainly cause for a big celebration. Perhaps it's not as big as some historical events, but if our politicians - or at least some of them - have managed to get past the fear of COVID, that is quite important in my opinion.
The easy option was to bring in restrictions. That they held their nerve is worth celebrating, in my opinion.
The former. The signs look encouraging to be sure don't get me wrong. And I'm delighted about that. But we are one-nil up at half time and several are on a lap of honour.
Okay, perhaps it is still too early to say, but I'm fairly confident that we're not going to have big problems like last January.
No, but with the vaccines I don't see that we ever were going to be like last January. However, we still haven't had the Christmas inter-generational and inter-regional mixing. And we are on 100k cases a day. When, anecdotally, folk are avoiding testing to get their Xmas. Sorry to be the voice of caution here, but we aren't out of the woods yet.
The question is how much testing is being done. My understanding, awaiting confirmation from someone who does have insight, is thats its through the roof so how much of the cases are we just picking up what previously we didn't because the testing numbers were lower.
There are a number of unanswered questions of that kind, yes. Or are people testing because they have cold symptoms? Delta wasn't similar to a head cold. Or are they testing cos they are travelling? Or avoiding it cos they don't want to know? Crucially, will we see a surge in other regions, with doubling times similar to the London one? If we do, all at the same time, then cases go sky high nationally. As I said, it's half time v Omicron.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
You cannot make an evidence based decision until there is evidence to consider.
True logically and linguistically. But I recommend you read Gary Klein (Streetlights and Shadows) on naturalistic decision-making, expertise, intuition and recognition-primed decision-making. It is a more explicit model of Kahneman's thinking fast vs thinking slow, or System I and System II.
In other words, based on genuine expertise garnered over long periods of demanding work, we can develop subconscious priming to recognize patterns that our conscious brain is unaware of. Klein cites structures firefighters and naval aviators and even weather forecasters in his research works.
I am not convinced that this is what is play with the government's decision-making (or with much decision-making by anyone about COVID, as it is so sui generis that no-one has had the data sets to acquire that definition of expertise), but thought it worth pointing out that there are evidence-based decision-making processes even in the absence of explicit evidence.
Comments
Not disagreeing with the general point that you're making, but in case it helps, as an employer I've found that recruitment and onboarding at a distance can really work well. It's helped by the fact that everyone else is working from home, so only interacting with people by Zoom has become the norm. I've recruited people I've never met and found they slotted into the work pattern just as well as people did when they came in to work - after a year there are two of my best people who I've just met once, a few months ago, and I have productive colleagues who I've never met at all.
Don't assume you won't be welcomed and integrated in a new job just because you're at a distance. It depends on the type of work, of course, but for office work it doesn't matter that much whether you can see someone's feet in a meeting.
With a bit of luck all this will be history soon anyway, of course, but in the meantime do look around for what job suits you best, and enjoy the oncoming freedom.
For better or worse that is the democratic, parliamentarian system.
Whitty sends advice. He does not govern.
If it does turn out that things are going to be okay re omicron, I'd suggest that is certainly cause for a big celebration. Perhaps it's not as big as some historical events, but if our politicians - or at least some of them - have managed to get past the fear of COVID, that is quite important in my opinion.
The easy option was to bring in restrictions. That they held their nerve is worth celebrating, in my opinion.
It’s the not-normality that I think messes with peoples brains. A sense that things are in limbo, like a giant extended twixtmas. With this grows the suspicion, and fear, that some people would like to make this not-normality a permanent new-normal. Which by the way I am sure is ungrounded, but I understand the fear.
@DPJHodges
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1h
I genuinely think trust in our scientific experts would be enhanced if they and their self-appointed cheerleaders would simply acknowledge when they got something wrong. Rather than go through these ridiculous contortions pretending they were right, when they obviously weren't.
But we are one-nil up at half time and several are on a lap of honour.
I've been acting normally, socially and work wise.
Life isn't as much fun when people jump out of their skin when you happen to be walking down the same aisle in the supermarket.
Life isn't as much fun if you're yet to meet the person you want to spend your life with. And can't because you don't have a digital piano, or the time and money for a dating app.
Life isn't as much fun when people are putting masks on to go to the lav or the bar in a pub (this one still annoys me). Or if someone asks you for your papers to go into a footy match. Or if you have to decide between your Xmas party and your family Xmas lunch.
Life simply is less fun whilst any legal regulations remain. Which is why we need to ditch them all for the general public.
Getting it wrong in one direction is perhaps understandable. Managing to get it wrong in both directions is pretty poor in my opinion.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sage-memo-makes-the-case-for-lockdown
1) being scared of calling out the actions of the clinically obese.
2) wanting instead to impose restriction on everyone else because of 1)
The sense that our freedom to enjoy life is at the whim of some politician, some civil servant/scientist, is tiring and overbearing. That just a rumour of a new variant could lead to another lockdown.
Much of my Christmas has been destroyed by Omichron. Delighted that Hogmanay might just pull through.
You cannot make an evidence based decision until there is evidence to consider.
The Scottish study is hopeful, but very small numbers.
As a thought experiment look at a pre-covid TV program or sports event.
No Covid. It really is as though the fog has lifted.
Britain, collectively, is very, very fat.
The levels of institutional groupthink in the NHS really do need addressing....
Wishing that the virus never happened is fine and dandy, but it did happen.
"Couch to 5k/5 pounds off to save the NHS"
To be fair, one of them did see the point after he joked 'I suppose I'm never going to have to worry about not having a job and an income ho ho ho'.
Still....being obese not a great idea in regards COVID, as with lots of other diseases.
The junk food diet delivered to sofa sitters is a real killer.
The document is phrased as if Sage is collectively making the case for lockdown: in reality Sage is a huge number of experts most of whom wish to provide advice but not lobby government for anything. But over the pandemic, Sage advice has tended to be edited and summarised by those inside government lobbying for more restrictions.
Intriguing - who are these government insiders I wonder.
* the wrong sort of models
The general public has been asked to assess their own risk and modify their behaviours accordingly if they feel they are at risk or as a risk to others. I think the public has done a fantastic job these past few weeks using their own judgement and you have seen some of that impact in the data.
Britain will open up when it happens, it will take time for people to feel comfortable again and people should take their time getting to that point, to a point where they feel comfortable to do so. They should not at any point be castigated or criticized for taking their time.
There have been some positive developments these last couple of days but is it all over? Of course not, we are in for a tough time ahead but we will get their eventually.
Not just waved through by the medical profession. Just in case.
If it’s grade A shitty behaviour you are looking for them you should read up on the last Duke of Albany
(Just blame autocorrect like the rest of us do.)
I don't get why people can't just be happy that we're seemingly avoiding another lockdown and things aren't as bad as they seemed. I'm delighted
Christmas day hanging on the test and my daughter said it was like waiting for exam results
Good news both declared negative and Christmas day saved
I would imagine that is going on across the county for many tonight
SAGE is not just doctors either, it is constituted by experts appointed by the government. It is not some self selecting medical body.
Even then we're not happy, of course, but at least we get that little glow of self-righteousness that devolves from being proved right.
(No, this is not meant entirely seriously.)
Seriously I'm OK. Hope you are too.
@MaxPB! Remember the last time I had to warn you about breaking the Second Law of Covid Hubris - we got Omicron about a week later...
Let our cheers be muted and wary, for now
I can't believe I am saying this but Blair on PM afterwards was a breath of fresh air. Measured and putting everything into context and commenting that not locking down was exactly the right decision. For all that I am no great fan, at least he gets it.
"Half the calories, so you can eat twice as much."
In this case:
"Half the hospitalisation rate, so you can have twice as many cases."
Fraser Nelson's latest article is instructive, as I've been saying I don't particularly blame the scientists, it's the unknown officials within the DoH who have been pushing the lockdown option by selectively having negative inputs used for models, by editing the SAGE evidence to make it seem like lockdown is the only option etc...
There's a lot of people for whom lockdown is no serious imposition and they are the ones putting the SAGE reports together. The cabinet stood up to the "lockdown just in case" consensus and were right to do so.
However, we still haven't had the Christmas inter-generational and inter-regional mixing. And we are on 100k cases a day. When, anecdotally, folk are avoiding testing to get their Xmas.
Sorry to be the voice of caution here, but we aren't out of the woods yet.
The implication was if London had gave them cash so they could chuck it out to support various sectors they'd have shut more shit down.
So its now money, or as it might be better known, the economy.
Just want to say thank you to the Treasury for actually forcing the politicians, many of whom are delightfully interventionist, to think and not just jump. Bearing in mind we have the slowest booster programme of any home nation, c2-3 weeks behind, they should be forced to think, not least why they didnt get that together sooner.
I'm not convinced this will see the likes of Gove drop the prospect of new measures. So I worry as to what their reaction will be if cases spike dramatically from here in the New Year.
The spirit and ethos of Labour - like the Dems in America - is now joyless, puritan and tending to authoritarianism. Cancellation not Liberation. NO rather than YES. DON'T SAY THAT rather than LET IT ALL HANG OUT
It is very sad. I miss the old sexy liberated permissive Left. But it is gone forever, replaced by a bunch of ugly, cat's-arse-mouthed prudes
We may have years of rolling variant panics being ramped up by these people before we're finally allowed to put Covid behind us.
There are reasonable reasons to think that this cycle might be different, and anyone sensible will hope that it is. There are still a lot of contact pings going round though (especially in the health system) and we're not home and dry yet. Though the signs are hopeful, and whatever happens next, there's reason to hope this will be over sooner than we might have thought.
None of this necessarily discredits the boffins, though. To take a betting analogy; more restrictions earlier could have been the value bet. This time it hasn't come in, but if you make enough value bets, you win overall. The approach demanded by Conservative backbenchers could be (not is, but could be) a foolish bet that happens to win. Nice, and there might be information there. But if you keep making them, you lose your shirt.
Crucially, will we see a surge in other regions, with doubling times similar to the London one? If we do, all at the same time, then cases go sky high nationally.
As I said, it's half time v Omicron.
NEW THREAD
In other words, based on genuine expertise garnered over long periods of demanding work, we can develop subconscious priming to recognize patterns that our conscious brain is unaware of. Klein cites structures firefighters and naval aviators and even weather forecasters in his research works.
I am not convinced that this is what is play with the government's decision-making (or with much decision-making by anyone about COVID, as it is so sui generis that no-one has had the data sets to acquire that definition of expertise), but thought it worth pointing out that there are evidence-based decision-making processes even in the absence of explicit evidence.