Just saw the JCVI news. FFS. Liberal handwriting and British exceptionalism at its worst. How long are our children going to have to endure disrupted education?
What's the JCVI news? Something on vaccinating younger children?
They’ve said most under 12s are not getting jabbed
How many of them have had the lurgy already? Must be 80%+
Mind you, how sure are they that variant Pi / Omega / Orion won't affect children badly?
It is odd, SAGE seem to come up with every possible scenario of doom, whereas JCVI seem to plan for everything staying as it is at this instant.
No, it's the Andromeda strain that will get the children
Meghan, Duchess of Sussex could be called as witness in Prince Andrew's sex case.
Virginia Giuffre's lawyer says Duchess can be 'counted on to tell the truth' but said he is unlikely to depose the Queen 'out of respect'
The Duchess of Sussex could be called as a witness in the civil suit against Prince Andrew brought by Virginia Roberts Giuffre.
David Boies, the lawyer representing Ms Giuffre, told the Daily Beast that the Duchess of Sussex “is somebody we can count on to tell the truth”.
Mr Boies said there are three reasons she may be deposed: “One; she is in the U.S. so we have jurisdiction over her.”
“Two; she is somebody who obviously, at least for a period of time, was a close associate of Prince Andrew and hence is in a position to perhaps have seen what he did, and perhaps if not to have seen what he did to have heard people talk about it. Because of her past association with him, she may very well have important knowledge, and will certainly have some knowledge.”
“Three; she is somebody who we can count on to tell the truth. She checks all three boxes.”
Mr Boies stressed that no final decision had been made on who he would depose, stating that the Duchess is just “one of the people we are considering”.
But she didn't know him at the time of the allegations, did she?
Surely hearsay is inadmissible, so unless she witnessed it herself (unlikely given timeframes and, well, everything),on what basis could she be called?
Not getting involved in this case thanks, but on the subject of hearsay, as a general rule hearsay is not admissible as evidence against a defendant, but an important exception is hearsay evidence of what the defendant himself said about what he himself did.
So, for example in an English criminal case a policeman gives evidence of what the defendant X said about the doings of himself. This is evidence against X. But if the defendants are X and Y, what X said to the the policeman about what Y is NOT evidence against Y unless and until X repeats it in court as X and Y dish each other in a cutthroat defence.
There are a few other exceptions too. And in recent years it has widened a bit to include sometimes hearsay accounts of what witness Z said about defendant W before the witness got intimidated out of repeating it in court.
Thanks. I can hardly imagine Andrew and Meghan having detailed discussions about the whole Epstein thing, and particularly not conversations in which Andrew made self-incriminating comments about any aspects relevant to the court case.
And if Maghan says they did, in private, how can she be proven wrong?
This is simply the general question of the quality, credibility, nature and reliability of evidence. If this was easy there would be no litigation and few lawyers.
The issue is the reputational damage
I’m aware that it’s Andrew we are talking about (!!) but the headlines would not be good for the RF as a whole
I don’t know but I am sure the Mail and Sun would be happy to post a front page headlined “LIAR LIES” with a lovely photo of Megan……
Yeah, but the trial is in the USA. Where strangely enough, Andy is NOT considered Meghan's moral superior.
Over her, she's basically just Harry's wife. And the years of effort that The Firm AND the UK media establishment spent building him up - along with his brother - as a paragon of royal virtue and the Windsor brand means that, over here, he - and thus she - are regarded in a generally favorable light. Much more so, anyway, than among most PBers and many (esp. older) UKers.
Boies is rattling several cages, and judging from PB commentary he must be pleased with the effects so far.
It would be very interesting - if it turned out Meghan and Andrew knew each other 25 years ago. But otherwise…
In 11 years on @LBC I have never publicly called out a fellow presenter. But I can't stand by while this sort of irresponsible and dangerous propaganda is spread by someone who ought to know better. Shame on you, Maajid. Shame. On. You. Boosters Save Lives. Scientific Fact.
What happened to Maajid, at one point he used to be a sensible voice of reason, that at least here on PB, a lot of people said well I would probably vote for him (regardless of which party they actually support).
My personal favorites are "Old Man Pudding" (with Malc as his chief elf?) and "Tabitha the Christmas Hedgehog" (wonder who takes precedence in the Debatable Lands?)
The one thing about being eager to strip out incidental covid infections in hospital is that having covid is a huge risk multiplier on any surgery at any level of severity as i understand it. I will have to dig out the paper.
Even if the government have called this right re Omicron, they will get zero credit.
I dunno. If most of Western Europe, including Scotland and Wales, has severe restrictions re-imposed in the next few weeks, while England doesn’t…
Nah the media become very interested in the rest of Europe when such things happen.
Of course, it will be “Boris cancelled our Skiing holidays”, when it was actually Macron that cancelled them.
Nah the media will just start the whole plague island narrative again and ignore that Europe has descended back into lockdown while pretending that we could easily have the same cases as them if only the government magicked it away like those responsible European leaders.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
Just saw the JCVI news. FFS. Liberal handwriting and British exceptionalism at its worst. How long are our children going to have to endure disrupted education?
What's the JCVI news? Something on vaccinating younger children?
They’ve said most under 12s are not getting jabbed
How many of them have had the lurgy already? Must be 80%+
Mind you, how sure are they that variant Pi / Omega / Orion won't affect children badly?
It is odd, SAGE seem to come up with every possible scenario of doom, whereas JCVI seem to plan for everything staying as it is at this instant.
No, it's the Andromeda strain that will get the children
Meghan, Duchess of Sussex could be called as witness in Prince Andrew's sex case.
Virginia Giuffre's lawyer says Duchess can be 'counted on to tell the truth' but said he is unlikely to depose the Queen 'out of respect'
The Duchess of Sussex could be called as a witness in the civil suit against Prince Andrew brought by Virginia Roberts Giuffre.
David Boies, the lawyer representing Ms Giuffre, told the Daily Beast that the Duchess of Sussex “is somebody we can count on to tell the truth”.
Mr Boies said there are three reasons she may be deposed: “One; she is in the U.S. so we have jurisdiction over her.”
“Two; she is somebody who obviously, at least for a period of time, was a close associate of Prince Andrew and hence is in a position to perhaps have seen what he did, and perhaps if not to have seen what he did to have heard people talk about it. Because of her past association with him, she may very well have important knowledge, and will certainly have some knowledge.”
“Three; she is somebody who we can count on to tell the truth. She checks all three boxes.”
Mr Boies stressed that no final decision had been made on who he would depose, stating that the Duchess is just “one of the people we are considering”.
But she didn't know him at the time of the allegations, did she?
Surely hearsay is inadmissible, so unless she witnessed it herself (unlikely given timeframes and, well, everything),on what basis could she be called?
Not getting involved in this case thanks, but on the subject of hearsay, as a general rule hearsay is not admissible as evidence against a defendant, but an important exception is hearsay evidence of what the defendant himself said about what he himself did.
So, for example in an English criminal case a policeman gives evidence of what the defendant X said about the doings of himself. This is evidence against X. But if the defendants are X and Y, what X said to the the policeman about what Y is NOT evidence against Y unless and until X repeats it in court as X and Y dish each other in a cutthroat defence.
There are a few other exceptions too. And in recent years it has widened a bit to include sometimes hearsay accounts of what witness Z said about defendant W before the witness got intimidated out of repeating it in court.
Thanks. I can hardly imagine Andrew and Meghan having detailed discussions about the whole Epstein thing, and particularly not conversations in which Andrew made self-incriminating comments about any aspects relevant to the court case.
And if Maghan says they did, in private, how can she be proven wrong?
This is simply the general question of the quality, credibility, nature and reliability of evidence. If this was easy there would be no litigation and few lawyers.
The issue is the reputational damage
I’m aware that it’s Andrew we are talking about (!!) but the headlines would not be good for the RF as a whole
I don’t know but I am sure the Mail and Sun would be happy to post a front page headlined “LIAR LIES” with a lovely photo of Megan……
Yeah, but the trial is in the USA. Where strangely enough, Andy is NOT considered Meghan's moral superior.
Over her, she's basically just Harry's wife. And the years of effort that The Firm AND the UK media establishment spent building him up - along with his brother - as a paragon of royal virtue and the Windsor brand means that, over here, he - and thus she - are regarded in a generally favorable light. Much more so, anyway, than among most PBers and many (esp. older) UKers.
Boies is rattling several cages, and judging from PB commentary he must be pleased with the effects so far.
It would be very interesting - if it turned out Meghan and Andrew knew each other 25 years ago. But otherwise…
We shall see . . . though probably though a glass darkly.
Remember, likes of you & me are NOT the targets of Boies's legal-message strategy.
Also remember that this is the same House of Windsor that consigned the last Tsar of Russia & family to their fate in order to protect . . . wait for it . . . the House of Windsor.
Hopefully there is still time to reverse all of those lockdown decisions for Scotland and Wales (and for Sadiq to get London's NYE back on track). One thing I worry about is that this "mild narrative" will take hold and people will stop queueing for boosters in January.
Won't happen in Wales at least. Drakeford will double down in my view.
Next week will be interesting in Wales, if the UK Government hold their nerve and resist imposing restrictions as they surely will.
Absolutely clear, given the data on severity and the fact the Omicron should be a short spike and precipitous fall that Drakeford should reassess. He won't.
The government in Wales will take the precautionary principle to the max.
‘Looking at the number of people in intensive care in areas with a high prevalence of Omicron such as London, the recent disconnect between case numbers and patient numbers is obvious. This type of pattern is completely new’
Sounds like we can relax until Monday - No10 not expecting to consult ministers on possible new covid curbs any time this week, unless the data go haywire.
Means 29th Dec earliest plausible date for any new rules in 🏴 to take effect.
Even if you felt Bracey, now the only top order batsman other than Malan with a century in Australia, might not be quite ready to face Starc, why on earth would you send Foakes home when anyone sane would have him straight in for Buttler?
- Boosters. 12.2 Million left to do in Scotland and England. - Cases. Rising sharply across all regions. Nearly all the growth is in the sub 50s groups. London R is now falling
- Admissions. Rising slowly. - Deaths - still falling.
Is there a reason why you spell it “preverts” in each of these pictures?
It's because they're not communist yet - they are pre-converts, or preverts for short.
I suggest you rewatch Dr Strangeglove.... The language mangling by certain characters is a joy....
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
Even if you felt Bracey, now the only top order batsman other than Malan with a century in Australia, might not be quite ready to face Starc, why on earth would you send Foakes home when anyone sane would have him straight in for Buttler?
They are just going to pick the shape from the same 13 players regardless.
Sounds like we can relax until Monday - No10 not expecting to consult ministers on possible new covid curbs any time this week, unless the data go haywire.
Means 29th Dec earliest plausible date for any new rules in 🏴 to take effect.
The one thing about being eager to strip out incidental covid infections in hospital is that having covid is a huge risk multiplier on any surgery at any level of severity as i understand it. I will have to dig out the paper.
Good point. You are the first I've seen mention that for a long time.
‘Looking at the number of people in intensive care in areas with a high prevalence of Omicron such as London, the recent disconnect between case numbers and patient numbers is obvious. This type of pattern is completely new’
The one thing about being eager to strip out incidental covid infections in hospital is that having covid is a huge risk multiplier on any surgery at any level of severity as i understand it. I will have to dig out the paper.
This was made very clear to me by my consultant, pre-op.
So the average boardroom of a big-league UK football club is VERY similar to the scene within Putin's inner sanctum, or around the Big Mac buffet at Mar-a-Lardo, or the cheese-and-coke platter at No. 10 Xmas parties?
Boss hogs snorting round the trough and shitting up the place.
- Boosters. 12.2 Million left to do in Scotland and England. - Cases. Rising sharply across all regions. Nearly all the growth is in the sub 50s groups. London R is now falling
- Admissions. Rising slowly. - Deaths - still falling.
Is there a reason why you spell it “preverts” in each of these pictures?
It's because they're not communist yet - they are pre-converts, or preverts for short.
I suggest you rewatch Dr Strangeglove.... The language mangling by certain characters is a joy....
The one thing about being eager to strip out incidental covid infections in hospital is that having covid is a huge risk multiplier on any surgery at any level of severity as i understand it. I will have to dig out the paper.
Good point. You are the first I've seen mention that for a long time.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
One of the things that I dislike most is the complete lack of nuance in these discussions. Lockdowns are happening in certain of our Continental neighbours. You're seeing curfews and the compulsory closing of hospitality.
We're not seeing that. We're seeing some annoying indoor mask mandates. Which is a pain, but it is certainly not the same as people not being allowed out the house to mix with other people.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
I really wish people like you would listen to cries of anguish when you hear them.
It's not just about parties being called off, it's about the unfairness of being a twenty something in a junior job, maybe in a four person house share and being cooped up in your bedroom working. Sometimes in the heat of summer with no air con, or spending your own (hard earned pennies) keeping the place warm in winter. The oppressiveness of your living room suddenly becoming your office. The inability to switch off from work, because your home is work and work is your home.
It's about feeling unable to change jobs (how do you onboard with a new team virtually, when you're joining a new team who used to know each other pre pandemic?), it's about wondering how you're going to learn from your "peers" when your peers are just a zoom call now.
It's about being afraid to take the train back across the country to see your gran in case someone coughs in your face and you pass it on to her. It's about not being able to take a holiday because you can't afford the possibility of a 10 day quarantine hotel, or even the cost of private PCR tests before and after you travel.
It's about body issues from weight gain, gyms closed (or perhaps being afraid to go to the gym), it's about drinking too much because of the stress of just watching the non-stop doom porn that the news has become, night after night.
It's about wondering when this will ever end.
The pandemic has been brutal on many of us, and some more than others. Some people - the older, more established ones, with families, big houses, steady jobs and gardens, have prospered. Others have silently screamed in despair.
The one thing about being eager to strip out incidental covid infections in hospital is that having covid is a huge risk multiplier on any surgery at any level of severity as i understand it. I will have to dig out the paper.
Asymptomatic covid increases the death rate for General Anaesthesia 38 fold according the British Journal of Anaesthesia.
They have constant access to medical personnel, they had been given talks from experts....
One group which has been very quiet is or are jockeys. I've never seen any information from the Professional Jockeys Association (PJA) about the number of jockeys vaccinated/not vaccinated.
The one thing about being eager to strip out incidental covid infections in hospital is that having covid is a huge risk multiplier on any surgery at any level of severity as i understand it. I will have to dig out the paper.
Asymptomatic covid increases the death rate for General Anaesthesia 38 fold according the British Journal of Anaesthesia.
I took my self-isolation very seriously when that was read out to me.
Sounds like we can relax until Monday - No10 not expecting to consult ministers on possible new covid curbs any time this week, unless the data go haywire.
Means 29th Dec earliest plausible date for any new rules in 🏴 to take effect.
Christina Pagel on Sky News now. Has any "scientist" come on TV at any point during the pandemic and said "actually, this info changes things, and I think we should now do y rather than x"?
They have constant access to medical personnel, they had been given talks from experts....
One group which has been very quiet is or are jockeys. I've never seen any information from the Professional Jockeys Association (PJA) about the number of jockeys vaccinated/not vaccinated.
All the coke they are on will kill the old covid instantly !!!
The one thing about being eager to strip out incidental covid infections in hospital is that having covid is a huge risk multiplier on any surgery at any level of severity as i understand it. I will have to dig out the paper.
Good point. You are the first I've seen mention that for a long time.
We talked about it yesterday.....
Ah, that's why I should never spend more than half an hour away from PB...
Hopefully there is still time to reverse all of those lockdown decisions for Scotland and Wales (and for Sadiq to get London's NYE back on track). One thing I worry about is that this "mild narrative" will take hold and people will stop queueing for boosters in January.
Won't happen in Wales at least. Drakeford will double down in my view.
Next week will be interesting in Wales, if the UK Government hold their nerve and resist imposing restrictions as they surely will.
Absolutely clear, given the data on severity and the fact the Omicron should be a short spike and precipitous fall that Drakeford should reassess. He won't.
The government in Wales will take the precautionary principle to the max.
But don’t forget, the Welsh will start shuffling just one way around shops from Sunday.
Another policy triumph by Mark Drakeford, brilliantly exploiting the inability of viruses to infect people who are walking slowly in a roughly similar direction. Kind of genius, really
Can viruses experience emotions? No one knows, but if they do, the coronavirus must absolutely shit itself when it sees The Drake on its case. Finally, a proper enemy.
Christina Pagel on Sky News now. Has any "scientist" come on TV at any point during the pandemic and said "actually, this info changes things, and I think we should now do y rather than x"?
Yeah there was that guy on the BBC earlier who said the new data on how mild Omicron is compared to Delta will require the models to be redone and result in a change in the situation and advice.
There's a lot of scientists out there and thankfully most don't have a zero COVID agenda. It's a shame that the media wants to give an unchallenged platform to loudest and most deranged.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
This sort of 'theres nothing stopping you' except a list of things which make life much less fun is exactly what annoys me about people supporting and calling for rules. They're calling for rules on other people.
Is anyone else awaiting the announcement of the results of a new model that uses a 50-500% *increase* in the probability of hospitalisation with the Winnie-The-Pooh variant?
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
Yes for the unvaccinated....even prior infection won't help you much. Not vaccinated, unless you lock yourself away, you are getting this and then you roll the dice.
Even if the government have called this right re Omicron, they will get zero credit.
Absolutely. Though to be brutally honest I'm not bothered about the Government getting credit, it's more the fact that iSAGE and the rest of the "lockdown now" brigade of scientists won't be discredited by it. They'll go to ground and crawl back out of the woodwork the nanosecond the next variant of concern is identified, the journalists will lap up everything they have to say, and we'll be at risk of going through the Omicronpanic all over again.
Gove should be put back in his box, chip firmly removed from his shoulder and lid locked shut. Javid should announce to the nation that’s he’s been over promoted and start training for Strictly. BoJo should hold his hands up that he is still trying to figure out what a graph is and go back to his florid biography of Shakespeare. Truss should apologise for not finding the Cabinet debate important enough to stay to the end but fortunately enough for us all the call was from the head of HR at GB News and #shesaidyes.
And Sunak and his merry band of 100 that have so skilfully undermined the case for lockdown should inherit the earth. Or the keys to No 10 at any rate.
This take is too lurid and complicated. We were only getting a Lockdown - as before - if there was compelling reason for one. There isn't, so we aren't.
We were getting a lockdown until the rush to one got squashed in Cabinet. The LotO was backing it full tilt, so were SAGE and the CMO. Downing St were briefing there would be a same day presser to announce it and had already lined up the recall of Parliament.
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
Isn't it exactly what the far-seeing clever clogs that have been speaking about pandemics since the start of this one have been predicting?
More infectious. Less severe.
Becomes endemic.
We go back to normal.
THANK GOD FOR THE 101 BACKBENCHERS AND THE LIB DEMS!
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
Says an old git I'm alright jack PBer who has forgotten or never knew the psychologically oppressive environment that younger people have had to live under regardless of whether they can "go down the pub" or not.
Just the news of a 5pm news conference can be seriously anxiety-inducing for many, especially younger people.
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
The situation in Korea look different and difficult.
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
Yes for the unvaccinated....even prior infection won't help you much. Not vaccinated, unless you lock yourself away, you are getting this and then you roll the dice.
Oh really, is that unexpected? I'd have thought prior infection would be better than a vaccine.
Christina Pagel on Sky News now. Has any "scientist" come on TV at any point during the pandemic and said "actually, this info changes things, and I think we should now do y rather than x"?
To be fair, didnt Devi Shridhar move away from zero covid?
Christina Pagel on Sky News now. Has any "scientist" come on TV at any point during the pandemic and said "actually, this info changes things, and I think we should now do y rather than x"?
Jason Leitch was very good on WatO the other day and David Spiegelhalter (statistician not a science guy) was good on PM today.
‘Looking at the number of people in intensive care in areas with a high prevalence of Omicron such as London, the recent disconnect between case numbers and patient numbers is obvious. This type of pattern is completely new’
That graph appears to show a comparison between cases and occupancy of ventilator beds. Has there been long enough for Omicron cases to translate into a significant increase in critical care occupancy yet, or do we need a little longer to be sure that large numbers of very ill patients aren't going to start coming along the conveyor belt?
In 11 years on @LBC I have never publicly called out a fellow presenter. But I can't stand by while this sort of irresponsible and dangerous propaganda is spread by someone who ought to know better. Shame on you, Maajid. Shame. On. You. Boosters Save Lives. Scientific Fact.
What happened to Maajid, at one point he used to be a sensible voice of reason, that at least here on PB, a lot of people said well I would probably vote for him (regardless of which party they actually support).
He turned into a total Phil. In an "I can't believe he just said that" way until he then says something else even worse.
- Boosters. 12.2 Million left to do in Scotland and England. - Cases. Rising sharply across all regions. Nearly all the growth is in the sub 50s groups. London R is now falling
- Admissions. Rising slowly. - Deaths - still falling.
Is there a reason why you spell it “preverts” in each of these pictures?
It's because they're not communist yet - they are pre-converts, or preverts for short.
I suggest you rewatch Dr Strangeglove.... The language mangling by certain characters is a joy....
Indeed. But you can't beat Mandrake in my view.
It's hard to think of a character who isn't a brilliant creation in the whole film. They interlock so well - even the minor characters. Even James Earl Jones character....
Christina Pagel on Sky News now. Has any "scientist" come on TV at any point during the pandemic and said "actually, this info changes things, and I think we should now do y rather than x"?
Jason Leitch was very good on WatO the other day and David Spiegelhalter (statistician not a science guy) was good on PM today.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
I really wish people like you would listen to cries of anguish when you hear them.
It's not just about parties being called off, it's about the unfairness of being a twenty something in a junior job, maybe in a four person house share and being cooped up in your bedroom working. Sometimes in the heat of summer with no air con, or spending your own (hard earned pennies) keeping the place warm in winter. The oppressiveness of your living room suddenly becoming your office. The inability to switch off from work, because your home is work and work is your home.
It's about feeling unable to change jobs (how do you onboard with a new team virtually, when you're joining a new team who used to know each other pre pandemic?), it's about wondering how you're going to learn from your "peers" when your peers are just a zoom call now.
It's about being afraid to take the train back across the country to see your gran in case someone coughs in your face and you pass it on to her. It's about not being able to take a holiday because you can't afford the possibility of a 10 day quarantine hotel, or even the cost of private PCR tests before and after you travel.
It's about body issues from weight gain, gyms closed (or perhaps being afraid to go to the gym), it's about drinking too much because of the stress of just watching the non-stop doom porn that the news has become, night after night.
It's about wondering when this will ever end.
The pandemic has been brutal on many of us, and some more than others. Some people - the older, more established ones, with families, big houses, steady jobs and gardens, have prospered. Others have silently screamed in despair.
I dispute anyone has prospered from this whole thing.*
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
Yes for the unvaccinated....even prior infection won't help you much. Not vaccinated, unless you lock yourself away, you are getting this and then you roll the dice.
Oh really, is that unexpected? I'd have thought prior infection would be better than a vaccine.
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
Yes for the unvaccinated....even prior infection won't help you much. Not vaccinated, unless you lock yourself away, you are getting this and then you roll the dice.
Although the apparent lack of any big increase in hospitalisations suggests that's not a very big deal, though I suppose any increased danger for the unjabbed would be masked (in the total figures) by the boosters making the more vulnerable safer.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
Says an old git I'm alright jack PBer who has forgotten or never knew the psychologically oppressive environment that younger people have had to live under regardless of whether they can "go down the pub" or not.
Just the news of a 5pm news conference can be seriously anxiety-inducing for many, especially younger people.
Last year a study or a poll or whatever it was) was published, showing that over half of younger Brits lacked the guts to face their own bathroom shower, let alone the world.
The one thing about being eager to strip out incidental covid infections in hospital is that having covid is a huge risk multiplier on any surgery at any level of severity as i understand it. I will have to dig out the paper.
Asymptomatic covid increases the death rate for General Anaesthesia 38 fold according the British Journal of Anaesthesia.
I've liked this post due to it being informative but really I am grimacing very hard.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
I really wish people like you would listen to cries of anguish when you hear them.
It's not just about parties being called off, it's about the unfairness of being a twenty something in a junior job, maybe in a four person house share and being cooped up in your bedroom working. Sometimes in the heat of summer with no air con, or spending your own (hard earned pennies) keeping the place warm in winter. The oppressiveness of your living room suddenly becoming your office. The inability to switch off from work, because your home is work and work is your home.
It's about feeling unable to change jobs (how do you onboard with a new team virtually, when you're joining a new team who used to know each other pre pandemic?), it's about wondering how you're going to learn from your "peers" when your peers are just a zoom call now.
It's about being afraid to take the train back across the country to see your gran in case someone coughs in your face and you pass it on to her. It's about not being able to take a holiday because you can't afford the possibility of a 10 day quarantine hotel, or even the cost of private PCR tests before and after you travel.
It's about body issues from weight gain, gyms closed (or perhaps being afraid to go to the gym), it's about drinking too much because of the stress of just watching the non-stop doom porn that the news has become, night after night.
It's about wondering when this will ever end.
The pandemic has been brutal on many of us, and some more than others. Some people - the older, more established ones, with families, big houses, steady jobs and gardens, have prospered. Others have silently screamed in despair.
I dispute anyone has prospered from this whole thing.*
* Unless you've a mate in the Cabinet.
I know about 15 people who have made seriously more wedge this past 18 months.
They are all wealthy, with families, big houses.
And no, none of them were involved in selling PPE.
‘Looking at the number of people in intensive care in areas with a high prevalence of Omicron such as London, the recent disconnect between case numbers and patient numbers is obvious. This type of pattern is completely new’
That graph appears to show a comparison between cases and occupancy of ventilator beds. Has there been long enough for Omicron cases to translate into a significant increase in critical care occupancy yet, or do we need a little longer to be sure that large numbers of very ill patients aren't going to start coming along the conveyor belt?
There's a delay for most patients but for a portion they will require it on arrival to the hospital, that we haven't seen these people arrive yet in the stats is very, very encouraging. Tomorrow we'll get the incidental hospitalisation report which will give us an idea of what's actually happening in London hospitals.
My understanding dirty leeds, wolves and Liverpool are the 3 teams where basically everybody is jabbed up.
Same, as I understand it at Liverpool, anyone who had doubts about getting jabbed were spoken to by Klopp, Jordan Henderson, and by NHS/Vaccine staff.
It has worked.
While we have the PFA coming out with total horseshit.....trying to excuse the inexcusable.
I'm not sure the footballers are necessarily wrong, per se.
Elite top-level athletes are basically superbeings whose bodies function differently from us mere mortals, in terms of all sorts of things including lung capacity, heart function, etc, that might be related to COVID symptons. In addition, top-level sport is a game of very fine margins, and a small drop-off in performance can make huge differences to results, and hence earnings potential for the athletes concerned. It is possible that the vaccines cause effects that aren't noticeable to the general population, but which could either wreck the career of an elite athlete, or just reduce the edge they have over their competition to a level that we wouldn't notice, but which they would find unacceptable. The point being that the vaccines haven't been formally tested on groups that are sufficiently similar to them for them to be comfortable that they are not just safe, but cause no side effects whatsoever. They could therefore be justified in principle if they'd prefer to take their chances with the virus rather than the vaccines.
Unfortunately, the societal implications of them refusing the vaccines are potentially huge, given their unfortunately impossible-to-shift status as role models to a large proportion of people across the country, many of them young and impressionable.
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
Yes for the unvaccinated....even prior infection won't help you much. Not vaccinated, unless you lock yourself away, you are getting this and then you roll the dice.
Although the apparent lack of any big increase in hospitalisations suggests that's not a very big deal, though I suppose any increased danger for the unjabbed would be masked (in the total figures) by the boosters making the more vulnerable safer.
As I say, South Africa they had Beta and Delta already and lots of people had both.
Even if the government have called this right re Omicron, they will get zero credit.
Absolutely. Though to be brutally honest I'm not bothered about the Government getting credit, it's more the fact that iSAGE and the rest of the "lockdown now" brigade of scientists won't be discredited by it. They'll go to ground and crawl back out of the woodwork the nanosecond the next variant of concern is identified, the journalists will lap up everything they have to say, and we'll be at risk of going through the Omicronpanic all over again.
Gove should be put back in his box, chip firmly removed from his shoulder and lid locked shut. Javid should announce to the nation that’s he’s been over promoted and start training for Strictly. BoJo should hold his hands up that he is still trying to figure out what a graph is and go back to his florid biography of Shakespeare. Truss should apologise for not finding the Cabinet debate important enough to stay to the end but fortunately enough for us all the call was from the head of HR at GB News and #shesaidyes.
And Sunak and his merry band of 100 that have so skilfully undermined the case for lockdown should inherit the earth. Or the keys to No 10 at any rate.
This take is too lurid and complicated. We were only getting a Lockdown - as before - if there was compelling reason for one. There isn't, so we aren't.
We were getting a lockdown until the rush to one got squashed in Cabinet. The LotO was backing it full tilt, so were SAGE and the CMO. Downing St were briefing there would be a same day presser to announce it and had already lined up the recall of Parliament.
This!
I can't remember the last time the actual Cabinet changed the direction of the nation, but it did two days ago.
It's like suddenly breathing sweet spring air.
Maybe it will turn out to be crap decision (i doubt it) but at least the democratic elected cabinet stood up and said - 'hold on. wait a minute. let's pause while we await some actual data and not a model'.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
What a load of guff.
Until the summer it was against the law to have 7 people in my house.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
For some of us, “lockdown” was a month last April of needing advance permission from the police to go to the supermarket or pharmacy, followed by a couple of months of a 10pm curfew.
Christina Pagel on Sky News now. Has any "scientist" come on TV at any point during the pandemic and said "actually, this info changes things, and I think we should now do y rather than x"?
Jason Leitch was very good on WatO the other day and David Spiegelhalter (statistician not a science guy) was good on PM today.
Spiegelhalter is excellent.
I also rate Evan Davis who asks open informed questions and lets the interviewee do their thing.
Has there actually been any bad Omicron news or any worrying studies released today? I can't think of any, all the new information seems to be on the positive side, which is remarkable.
The situation in Korea look different and difficult.
They've had remarkable success in stamping on Covid using a very sophisticated regime of surveillance and testing up until now. It's most likely the case that Omicron is simply so transmissible that it is defeating previous successful attempts to sever chains of transmission.
Somebody with a better knowledge of what's going on in South Korea may come along in a moment to contradict me, but I rather suspect that they're still not doing at all badly - it's just that they're not doing quite as well as they were up until Omicron, because of the greater difficulty in preventing spread. Regardless, there's no reason to imagine that Koreans are, somehow, intrinsically more vulnerable to this variant than Brits or Saffers - or to infer from a large proportionate increase in cases and hospitalisations in South Korea that the same thing must necessarily happen here.
Even if the government have called this right re Omicron, they will get zero credit.
Absolutely. Though to be brutally honest I'm not bothered about the Government getting credit, it's more the fact that iSAGE and the rest of the "lockdown now" brigade of scientists won't be discredited by it. They'll go to ground and crawl back out of the woodwork the nanosecond the next variant of concern is identified, the journalists will lap up everything they have to say, and we'll be at risk of going through the Omicronpanic all over again.
Gove should be put back in his box, chip firmly removed from his shoulder and lid locked shut. Javid should announce to the nation that’s he’s been over promoted and start training for Strictly. BoJo should hold his hands up that he is still trying to figure out what a graph is and go back to his florid biography of Shakespeare. Truss should apologise for not finding the Cabinet debate important enough to stay to the end but fortunately enough for us all the call was from the head of HR at GB News and #shesaidyes.
And Sunak and his merry band of 100 that have so skilfully undermined the case for lockdown should inherit the earth. Or the keys to No 10 at any rate.
This take is too lurid and complicated. We were only getting a Lockdown - as before - if there was compelling reason for one. There isn't, so we aren't.
We were getting a lockdown until the rush to one got squashed in Cabinet. The LotO was backing it full tilt, so were SAGE and the CMO. Downing St were briefing there would be a same day presser to announce it and had already lined up the recall of Parliament.
This!
I can't remember the last time the actual Cabinet changed the direction of the nation, but it did two days ago.
It's like suddenly breathing sweet spring air.
Maybe it will turn out to be crap decision (i doubt it) but at least the democratic elected cabinet stood up and said - 'hold on. wait a minute. let's pause while we await some actual data and not a model'.
Agree.
I was in total despair on the Northern line, returning from a bookshop in East Finchley, expecting imminent announcements. Only to finally experience the elation of, supposedly, the cabinet greats like Truss, Barclay, Rishi, Rees Mogg and Shapps ROARING their disapproval, and putting their collective foot down.
But evidence suggests this was exactly the time to have 101 backbenchers influencing Tory policy....
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
I really wish people like you would listen to cries of anguish when you hear them.
It's not just about parties being called off, it's about the unfairness of being a twenty something in a junior job, maybe in a four person house share and being cooped up in your bedroom working. Sometimes in the heat of summer with no air con, or spending your own (hard earned pennies) keeping the place warm in winter. The oppressiveness of your living room suddenly becoming your office. The inability to switch off from work, because your home is work and work is your home.
It's about feeling unable to change jobs (how do you onboard with a new team virtually, when you're joining a new team who used to know each other pre pandemic?), it's about wondering how you're going to learn from your "peers" when your peers are just a zoom call now.
It's about being afraid to take the train back across the country to see your gran in case someone coughs in your face and you pass it on to her. It's about not being able to take a holiday because you can't afford the possibility of a 10 day quarantine hotel, or even the cost of private PCR tests before and after you travel.
It's about body issues from weight gain, gyms closed (or perhaps being afraid to go to the gym), it's about drinking too much because of the stress of just watching the non-stop doom porn that the news has become, night after night.
It's about wondering when this will ever end.
The pandemic has been brutal on many of us, and some more than others. Some people - the older, more established ones, with families, big houses, steady jobs and gardens, have prospered. Others have silently screamed in despair.
I dispute anyone has prospered from this whole thing.*
* Unless you've a mate in the Cabinet.
I know about 15 people who have made seriously more wedge this past 18 months.
They are all wealthy, with families, big houses.
And no, none of them were involved in selling PPE.
Yes. But have they prospered psychologically? Would they willingly go through it all again in other words? I doubt that very much in all honesty.
Rich folk prosper, poor folk don't is standard operating procedure after all.
Christina Pagel on Sky News now. Has any "scientist" come on TV at any point during the pandemic and said "actually, this info changes things, and I think we should now do y rather than x"?
Jason Leitch was very good on WatO the other day and David Spiegelhalter (statistician not a science guy) was good on PM today.
Spiegelhalter is excellent.
I only follow the Twitter scientists who have a track record of thinking aloud and having takes on new data that aren’t completely predictable based on their political views. Those plus the ones who keep it straight and factual, like Meaghan Kall.
Francois Balloux is a bit of a controversialist at times but he’s my favourite because he openly discusses the societal trade offs while actually knowing his epidemiology. His prescient tweet a couple of weeks ago sealed it, along the lines of “if we’re very lucky, this virus may turn out to have mutated to spread faster in the upper mucosa where vaccine effectiveness is weaker, at the expense of deeper in the lungs”. This was before those any of studies that showed exactly that.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
What a load of guff.
Until the summer it was against the law to have 7 people in my house.
In the words of Liz Truss.
That is a DISGRACE.
How is having 6 people in your house a lockdown? The people who do not live in your house who are in your house are not locked down are they?
Even if the government have called this right re Omicron, they will get zero credit.
Absolutely. Though to be brutally honest I'm not bothered about the Government getting credit, it's more the fact that iSAGE and the rest of the "lockdown now" brigade of scientists won't be discredited by it. They'll go to ground and crawl back out of the woodwork the nanosecond the next variant of concern is identified, the journalists will lap up everything they have to say, and we'll be at risk of going through the Omicronpanic all over again.
Gove should be put back in his box, chip firmly removed from his shoulder and lid locked shut. Javid should announce to the nation that’s he’s been over promoted and start training for Strictly. BoJo should hold his hands up that he is still trying to figure out what a graph is and go back to his florid biography of Shakespeare. Truss should apologise for not finding the Cabinet debate important enough to stay to the end but fortunately enough for us all the call was from the head of HR at GB News and #shesaidyes.
And Sunak and his merry band of 100 that have so skilfully undermined the case for lockdown should inherit the earth. Or the keys to No 10 at any rate.
This take is too lurid and complicated. We were only getting a Lockdown - as before - if there was compelling reason for one. There isn't, so we aren't.
We were getting a lockdown until the rush to one got squashed in Cabinet. The LotO was backing it full tilt, so were SAGE and the CMO. Downing St were briefing there would be a same day presser to announce it and had already lined up the recall of Parliament.
This!
I can't remember the last time the actual Cabinet changed the direction of the nation, but it did two days ago.
It's like suddenly breathing sweet spring air.
Maybe it will turn out to be crap decision (i doubt it) but at least the democratic elected cabinet stood up and said - 'hold on. wait a minute. let's pause while we await some actual data and not a model'.
Yes, the hundred Tories and the Cabinet stood up and made themselves be counted. Great service to the nation. Finally the levers of power have been crowbarred away from the unelected scientists who seek to impose what they think is best for us on a nation by way of leaks, modelled data and scaring elected politicians with big numbers.
It may not last but for a while it feels as though we're living in a much more free country than we have for the last couple of years where our freedom has felt as though it is there at the gift of the scientists and can be taken off us at their whim.
If the situation plays out as we hope and we get through relatively unscathed then we need a review of how this process works. The whole idea of only putting forwards worst case scenario data for consideration is simply an incorrect way of going about decision making, whoever in the DoH has decided this is a good process needs to be sacked.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
Says an old git I'm alright jack PBer who has forgotten or never knew the psychologically oppressive environment that younger people have had to live under regardless of whether they can "go down the pub" or not.
Just the news of a 5pm news conference can be seriously anxiety-inducing for many, especially younger people.
Last year a study or a poll or whatever it was) was published, showing that over half of younger Brits lacked the guts to face their own bathroom shower, let alone the world.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
It's not an unfair point.
But it's not like it's been sunshine and rainbows either. It's been grim and fucking miserable, for two years. Even in the summer there, we got back some sort of normality, kind of, but with the covid cloud always hovering over, always threatening to piss on your chips.
"Omicron is roughly two-thirds less likely to cause hospitalisation than the delta variant, the first real-world UK study suggests."
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
Indeed. I remember being told that it would always be preferable to live under the rule of unelected experts rather than know nothing politicians. Sometimes the know nothing politicians have got a much better feel for what's happening than the experts who can't see beyond their numbers and modelled data.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
It's been a long time since I was in my 20s.
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
Says an old git I'm alright jack PBer who has forgotten or never knew the psychologically oppressive environment that younger people have had to live under regardless of whether they can "go down the pub" or not.
Just the news of a 5pm news conference can be seriously anxiety-inducing for many, especially younger people.
Last year a study or a poll or whatever it was) was published, showing that over half of younger Brits lacked the guts to face their own bathroom shower, let alone the world.
My understanding dirty leeds, wolves and Liverpool are the 3 teams where basically everybody is jabbed up.
Same, as I understand it at Liverpool, anyone who had doubts about getting jabbed were spoken to by Klopp, Jordan Henderson, and by NHS/Vaccine staff.
It has worked.
While we have the PFA coming out with total horseshit.....trying to excuse the inexcusable.
I'm not sure the footballers are necessarily wrong, per se.
Elite top-level athletes are basically superbeings whose bodies function differently from us mere mortals, in terms of all sorts of things including lung capacity, heart function, etc, that might be related to COVID symptons. In addition, top-level sport is a game of very fine margins, and a small drop-off in performance can make huge differences to results, and hence earnings potential for the athletes concerned. It is possible that the vaccines cause effects that aren't noticeable to the general population, but which could either wreck the career of an elite athlete, or just reduce the edge they have over their competition to a level that we wouldn't notice, but which they would find unacceptable. The point being that the vaccines haven't been formally tested on groups that are sufficiently similar to them for them to be comfortable that they are not just safe, but cause no side effects whatsoever. They could therefore be justified in principle if they'd prefer to take their chances with the virus rather than the vaccines.
Unfortunately, the societal implications of them refusing the vaccines are potentially huge, given their unfortunately impossible-to-shift status as role models to a large proportion of people across the country, many of them young and impressionable.
One of the biggest arguments I have had on here was when I said that the vaccines were untested in the longer term and were rushed into production.
Even if the government have called this right re Omicron, they will get zero credit.
Absolutely. Though to be brutally honest I'm not bothered about the Government getting credit, it's more the fact that iSAGE and the rest of the "lockdown now" brigade of scientists won't be discredited by it. They'll go to ground and crawl back out of the woodwork the nanosecond the next variant of concern is identified, the journalists will lap up everything they have to say, and we'll be at risk of going through the Omicronpanic all over again.
Gove should be put back in his box, chip firmly removed from his shoulder and lid locked shut. Javid should announce to the nation that’s he’s been over promoted and start training for Strictly. BoJo should hold his hands up that he is still trying to figure out what a graph is and go back to his florid biography of Shakespeare. Truss should apologise for not finding the Cabinet debate important enough to stay to the end but fortunately enough for us all the call was from the head of HR at GB News and #shesaidyes.
And Sunak and his merry band of 100 that have so skilfully undermined the case for lockdown should inherit the earth. Or the keys to No 10 at any rate.
This take is too lurid and complicated. We were only getting a Lockdown - as before - if there was compelling reason for one. There isn't, so we aren't.
We were getting a lockdown until the rush to one got squashed in Cabinet. The LotO was backing it full tilt, so were SAGE and the CMO. Downing St were briefing there would be a same day presser to announce it and had already lined up the recall of Parliament.
This!
I can't remember the last time the actual Cabinet changed the direction of the nation, but it did two days ago.
It's like suddenly breathing sweet spring air.
Maybe it will turn out to be crap decision (i doubt it) but at least the democratic elected cabinet stood up and said - 'hold on. wait a minute. let's pause while we await some actual data and not a model'.
Agree.
I was in total despair on the Northern line, returning from a bookshop in East Finchley, expecting imminent announcements. Only to finally experience the elation of, supposedly, the cabinet greats like Truss, Barclay, Rishi, Rees Mogg and Shapps ROARING their disapproval, and putting their collective foot down.
But evidence suggests this was exactly the time to have 101 backbenchers influencing Tory policy....
"Cabinet greats" 🤣🤣 and Rees Mogg is one of them 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Christina Pagel on Sky News now. Has any "scientist" come on TV at any point during the pandemic and said "actually, this info changes things, and I think we should now do y rather than x"?
Jason Leitch was very good on WatO the other day and David Spiegelhalter (statistician not a science guy) was good on PM today.
Spiegelhalter is excellent.
Science is better defined by methodology than by subject matter, and on that criterion classical statistical methods are pure science, looking to falsify hypotheses with appropriate data analysis.
I really just want this over with. I've spent almost half my twenties in this pandemic. I've had essentially no social life in that time. I've been trapped paying half my income to live and work in a 12 square metre room with no outdoor space. There are people I've not met, experiences I haven't had, places I've not been, entirely because of an illness that poses no threat to me (or the overwhelming majority of the population now everyone has been offered a vaccination and a much milder strain has emerged). I really cannot justify pissing away more months or years of what was supposed to be a formative period of my life, so I doubt I'll respect any new restrictions moving forward.
I understand how you feel. It doesn't offer a threat to you *directly*, but: *) It does to any elderly relatives and friends, etc. *) It does if the health system breaks down, and you injure yourself doing your 20-something antics, or are just unlucky and get a random illness that requires treatment.
All my vulnerable friends and family are vaccinated, they are essentially as safe as they can possibly be; how many more sacrifices am I expected to make on behalf of people who have been offered a vaccine and refused it?
And the problem is, the health system has already shut down for people like me and our "20-something antics". All the GPs are doing boosters instead (which I don't mind, but the idea that they'd be free to help me if I just sat quietly in my room for the rest of life isn't right).
No one asked for this pandemic, and the reason the health system is under pressure is because of the virus. Wishing it away doesn't work, nor create the capacity for society. In England there are no real legal restrictions apart from mask wearing in certain places. We do not have any sort of lockdown.
I keep making thing point. It is not "lockdown". And compared to some countries we have never had lockdown.
Your final sentence is somewhat fatuous. Just because March 2020 in the UK wasn't quite as bad as people getting welded into their apartments or dragged away by snatch squads in hazmat suits a la Wuhan, it doesn't follow that it doesn't qualify as lockdown according to most people's reasonable definitions. It was still pretty damned bad.
One could just as easily point out that, compared to the Black Death in the mid-14th century, the percentage of the population of the British Isles that has thus far perished of Covid-19 is practically a rounding error.
Comments
https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1473682386395217933?t=L6hUd473F0LuT9tgVaDpvA&s=19
What happened to Maajid, at one point he used to be a sensible voice of reason, that at least here on PB, a lot of people said well I would probably vote for him (regardless of which party they actually support).
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/rm98ts/definitely_accurate_map_of_the_christmas_gift/
My personal favorites are "Old Man Pudding" (with Malc as his chief elf?) and "Tabitha the Christmas Hedgehog" (wonder who takes precedence in the Debatable Lands?)
Now that the government has refused to call a lockdown, SAGE scenarios can be measured against the real-world outcomes
ROSS CLARK"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/22/heading-face-real-world-data-sage-modelling/
Premier League vaccines: Players 'may have legitimate concerns', says PFA boss Maheta Molango - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59761920
They have constant access to medical personnel, they had been given talks from experts....
We are not "locked down" now - we've not been so for months, arguably we've not been since May 2020. The lifting of restrictions in mid July has essentially opened up most things. Yes. masks have to be worn in some places and you may need your Covid pass but essentially you can go anywhere in England.
The last time I looked pubs and restaurants were open - if you are minded to be social and sociable, there's nothing stopping you this year - indeed, the hospitality industry will be more than happy to take you and your friends' money.
Remember, likes of you & me are NOT the targets of Boies's legal-message strategy.
Also remember that this is the same House of Windsor that consigned the last Tsar of Russia & family to their fate in order to protect . . . wait for it . . . the House of Windsor.
Next week will be interesting in Wales, if the UK Government hold their nerve and resist imposing restrictions as they surely will.
Absolutely clear, given the data on severity and the fact the Omicron should be a short spike and precipitous fall that Drakeford should reassess. He won't.
The government in Wales will take the precautionary principle to the max.
It explains why everyone at Liverpool is fully vaxxed.
He absolutely nails it here.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/dec/18/covid-chaos-leads-jurgen-klopp-demand-action-anti-vaxx-players-liverpool
Arsenal FC rapped by the Advertising Standards Authority, over ‘crypto fan token’ promotion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-10335865/Misleading-irresponsible-Arsenal-FC-crypto-fan-token-ads-banned.html
‘Looking at the number of people in intensive care in areas with a high prevalence of Omicron such as London, the recent disconnect between case numbers and patient numbers is obvious. This type of pattern is completely new’
https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1473733437223751691?s=21
My understanding dirty leeds, wolves and Liverpool are the 3 teams where basically everybody is jabbed up.
I've also been laughing at Metro Bank.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/news/2021/december/pra-fines-metro-bank-5376000-for-failing-in-its-regulatory-reporting-governance-and-controls
Means 29th Dec earliest plausible date for any new rules in 🏴 to take effect.
Story @theipaper:
https://t.co/D4WNk8y8km
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341
Even if you felt Bracey, now the only top order batsman other than Malan with a century in Australia, might not be quite ready to face Starc, why on earth would you send Foakes home when anyone sane would have him straight in for Buttler?
It has worked.
Boss hogs snorting round the trough and shitting up the place.
But you can't beat Mandrake in my view.
We're not seeing that. We're seeing some annoying indoor mask mandates. Which is a pain, but it is certainly not the same as people not being allowed out the house to mix with other people.
It's not just about parties being called off, it's about the unfairness of being a twenty something in a junior job, maybe in a four person house share and being cooped up in your bedroom working. Sometimes in the heat of summer with no air con, or spending your own (hard earned pennies) keeping the place warm in winter. The oppressiveness of your living room suddenly becoming your office. The inability to switch off from work, because your home is work and work is your home.
It's about feeling unable to change jobs (how do you onboard with a new team virtually, when you're joining a new team who used to know each other pre pandemic?), it's about wondering how you're going to learn from your "peers" when your peers are just a zoom call now.
It's about being afraid to take the train back across the country to see your gran in case someone coughs in your face and you pass it on to her. It's about not being able to take a holiday because you can't afford the possibility of a 10 day quarantine hotel, or even the cost of private PCR tests before and after you travel.
It's about body issues from weight gain, gyms closed (or perhaps being afraid to go to the gym), it's about drinking too much because of the stress of just watching the non-stop doom porn that the news has become, night after night.
It's about wondering when this will ever end.
The pandemic has been brutal on many of us, and some more than others. Some people - the older, more established ones, with families, big houses, steady jobs and gardens, have prospered. Others have silently screamed in despair.
When are they gonna catch up?
Another policy triumph by Mark Drakeford, brilliantly exploiting the inability of viruses to infect people who are walking slowly in a roughly similar direction. Kind of genius, really
Can viruses experience emotions? No one knows, but if they do, the coronavirus must absolutely shit itself when it sees The Drake on its case. Finally, a proper enemy.
There's a lot of scientists out there and thankfully most don't have a zero COVID agenda. It's a shame that the media wants to give an unchallenged platform to loudest and most deranged.
Lets get back to normal, eh?
More infectious. Less severe.
Becomes endemic.
We go back to normal.
THANK GOD FOR THE 101 BACKBENCHERS AND THE LIB DEMS!
Just the news of a 5pm news conference can be seriously anxiety-inducing for many, especially younger people.
* Unless you've a mate in the Cabinet.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10332237/Unvaccinated-people-caught-Delta-virtually-no-protection-against-Omicron.html
Remember South Africa loads had Beta and for good measure a blast of Delta too.
They are all wealthy, with families, big houses.
And no, none of them were involved in selling PPE.
Elite top-level athletes are basically superbeings whose bodies function differently from us mere mortals, in terms of all sorts of things including lung capacity, heart function, etc, that might be related to COVID symptons. In addition, top-level sport is a game of very fine margins, and a small drop-off in performance can make huge differences to results, and hence earnings potential for the athletes concerned. It is possible that the vaccines cause effects that aren't noticeable to the general population, but which could either wreck the career of an elite athlete, or just reduce the edge they have over their competition to a level that we wouldn't notice, but which they would find unacceptable. The point being that the vaccines haven't been formally tested on groups that are sufficiently similar to them for them to be comfortable that they are not just safe, but cause no side effects whatsoever. They could therefore be justified in principle if they'd prefer to take their chances with the virus rather than the vaccines.
Unfortunately, the societal implications of them refusing the vaccines are potentially huge, given their unfortunately impossible-to-shift status as role models to a large proportion of people across the country, many of them young and impressionable.
UK its all Wuhan, Kent and Delta.
I can't remember the last time the actual Cabinet changed the direction of the nation, but it did two days ago.
It's like suddenly breathing sweet spring air.
Maybe it will turn out to be crap decision (i doubt it) but at least the democratic elected cabinet stood up and said - 'hold on. wait a minute. let's pause while we await some actual data and not a model'.
Until the summer it was against the law to have 7 people in my house.
In the words of Liz Truss.
That is a DISGRACE.
Belgian man arrested after trying to get vaccinated against COVID-19 for the 9th time on behalf of other people
Somebody with a better knowledge of what's going on in South Korea may come along in a moment to contradict me, but I rather suspect that they're still not doing at all badly - it's just that they're not doing quite as well as they were up until Omicron, because of the greater difficulty in preventing spread. Regardless, there's no reason to imagine that Koreans are, somehow, intrinsically more vulnerable to this variant than Brits or Saffers - or to infer from a large proportionate increase in cases and hospitalisations in South Korea that the same thing must necessarily happen here.
I was in total despair on the Northern line, returning from a bookshop in East Finchley, expecting imminent announcements. Only to finally experience the elation of, supposedly, the cabinet greats like Truss, Barclay, Rishi, Rees Mogg and Shapps ROARING their disapproval, and putting their collective foot down.
But evidence suggests this was exactly the time to have 101 backbenchers influencing Tory policy....
Rich folk prosper, poor folk don't is standard operating procedure after all.
Francois Balloux is a bit of a controversialist at times but he’s my favourite because he openly discusses the societal trade offs while actually knowing his epidemiology. His prescient tweet a couple of weeks ago sealed it, along the lines of “if we’re very lucky, this virus may turn out to have mutated to spread faster in the upper mucosa where vaccine effectiveness is weaker, at the expense of deeper in the lungs”. This was before those any of studies that showed exactly that.
Restrictions are not "lockdowns".
It may not last but for a while it feels as though we're living in a much more free country than we have for the last couple of years where our freedom has felt as though it is there at the gift of the scientists and can be taken off us at their whim.
If the situation plays out as we hope and we get through relatively unscathed then we need a review of how this process works. The whole idea of only putting forwards worst case scenario data for consideration is simply an incorrect way of going about decision making, whoever in the DoH has decided this is a good process needs to be sacked.
Telegraph headline.
Cabinet: 1; SAGE: 0
You would think it was VE Day or summat.
But it's not like it's been sunshine and rainbows either. It's been grim and fucking miserable, for two years. Even in the summer there, we got back some sort of normality, kind of, but with the covid cloud always hovering over, always threatening to piss on your chips.
One could just as easily point out that, compared to the Black Death in the mid-14th century, the percentage of the population of the British Isles that has thus far perished of Covid-19 is practically a rounding error.