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My search to try to find a value North Shropshire bet – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFD said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Whitehall officials can draw up whatever plans they want, Parliament will vote them down if they mean another lockdown as most Tory MPs will vote against them and topple any Tory PM who tries to implement them.

    1/3 of Tory MPs will vote against vaxports tomorrow, around 2/3 of Tory MPs would vote against another lockdown. Boosters are the way out of Omicron not locking down again
    All the usual stuff is being deployed...the massive scary number dropped today, the repeated its not milder, ....
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Those of a nervous disposition (much of PB) should avoid looking at the weather models, which are projecting a cold, possibly snowy, interlude over the festive season. Omicron the Icy etc etc.

    Lets not Daily Express this one. The 28 day Met Office, which I like for being level headed does not once mention the word 'snow' although 'frost' and 'fog' do feature over the holiday period. They are plumping quite clearly for cold and settled at the moment.
  • dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Quincel said:

    Labour are parking their tanks on the Lib Dem's lawn. Going after their bar charts.


    All’s fair in love and Lib Dem bar-chartery.

    Those who live by the sword… 😄
    Yes, quite. If there's a proper deal, fine, nearly all of us will stick to it. But it expects too much of a candidate that he'll just not make an effort because another party that he dislikes less might win if he doesn't. Too many ifs.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    The question was why should they keep pubs open if people can't get drunk. There's no use for them otherwise.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Who are these "Whitehall officials" and why should they control whether or not the Dog & Duck in Mansfield stays open ?
    I'm guessing they were told/asked to draw up contingency plans so they are available to the minister if needed.
    I expect they never believed they would hold such power.
    I'm not sure that's what it is. At the end of the day the minister decides.
    Ministers might decide, but the Sir Humphreys & their minions provide the options !
  • WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Boris does too little, too late, again.
    That sound like too much, too soon to me
    Hence the Tory Government’s quandary:

    Folk like me, who are right, are never going to vote for them, so why should they care?

    Folk like you, who are wrong, might vote for them, so they have to care.

    Of course, if they actually cared about the public good, they would just do the right thing and to hell with the electoral consequences. But they don’t. Of course.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    We had those idiotic pints with chips substantial meal rules. Same as that I guess.
    Christ. Scotch Egg Gate. I had forgotten about that nonsense. Who comes up with this moronic stuff?
  • HYUFD said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Whitehall officials can draw up whatever plans they want, Parliament will vote them down if they mean another lockdown as most Tory MPs will vote against them and topple any Tory PM who tries to implement them.

    1/3 of Tory MPs will vote against vaxports tomorrow, around 2/3 of Tory MPs would vote against another lockdown. Boosters are the way out of Omicron not locking down again
    Suspend parliament. It’s the Boris way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A single quote story in the Sun. Do you think the pubs will be shut over Christmas?
    No. I reckon they will shut them after Xmas. As I predicted in my official PB PLAGUETIME PREDICTION BINGO last week

    Here it is again, I wonder how close I will be



    “PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    edited December 2021

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    I know.
    But why would you go to a bar without alcohol? Is this just a way to avoid compensation by not having ordered them closed?

    Edit: I see @RobD has twigged my point.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Pulpstar said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Who are these "Whitehall officials" and why should they control whether or not the Dog & Duck in Mansfield stays open ?
    I'm not too bothered if they force the Dog & Duck in Mansfield to close. As long as my local hostelry stays open.
  • MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    We had those idiotic pints with chips substantial meal rules. Same as that I guess.
    Christ. Scotch Egg Gate. I had forgotten about that nonsense. Who comes up with this moronic stuff?
    The new Norwegian law is different. No alcohol sales full stop. You can have an Irn Bru or a cup of tea with your Scotch Egg, but not an eggnog.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Pro_Rata said:

    Those of a nervous disposition (much of PB) should avoid looking at the weather models, which are projecting a cold, possibly snowy, interlude over the festive season. Omicron the Icy etc etc.

    Lets not Daily Express this one. The 28 day Met Office, which I like for being level headed does not once mention the word 'snow' although 'frost' and 'fog' do feature over the holiday period. They are plumping quite clearly for cold and settled at the moment.
    I think you need to read my post again! I’m talking about the weather models and cold, not the Met Office. There is an improbable but nontrivial chance of snow. But a chilly Christmas on the cards.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Who are these "Whitehall officials" and why should they control whether or not the Dog & Duck in Mansfield stays open ?
    I'm guessing they were told/asked to draw up contingency plans so they are available to the minister if needed.
    I expect they never believed they would hold such power.
    I'm not sure that's what it is. At the end of the day the minister decides.
    Ministers might decide, but the Sir Humphreys & their minions provide the options !
    Isn't that quite literally their job?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A single quote story in the Sun. Do you think the pubs will be shut over Christmas?
    No. I reckon they will shut them after Xmas. As I predicted in my official PB PLAGUETIME PREDICTION BINGO last week

    Here it is again, I wonder how close I will be



    “PB PLAGUE PREDICTIONS BINGO

    The world is teetering on the abyss. This could all blow over in a week and we go back to worrying about Boris's bald patch OR human civilisation will be snuffed out like a candle at Christingle, probably around Christingle

    In that light, what do we predict? I'll go first


    Lockdown: YES

    Lockdown when: introduced incrementally, but fast. Plan C from about mid December, Plan Z (a harsh lockdown) from around Jan 1

    Lockdown how long: not long. It won't do much. 3-4 weeks

    UK hospitalisations between now and end March 2022: 310,000

    UK deaths in the same period: 49,000”
    “Plan C from about mid December” - your forecast already close to a bust! It’s the 15th tomorrow…

    (FWIW I think they will be tempted to go for extra restrictions of some kind 5-28 Jan, but unless you are going to close schools and sequester hospitals, they are largely pointless)
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    I know.
    But why would you go to a bar without alcohol? Is this just a way to avoid compensation by not having ordered them closed?
    Jeepers creepers. Are you so deep in the arms of the marketing men that the possibility of a night out without intoxicating liquor is beyond your comprehension??

    Meeting friends, eating, having a (soft) drink, laughing, socialising, living.

    Life goes on without alcohol you know.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    HYUFD said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Whitehall officials can draw up whatever plans they want, Parliament will vote them down if they mean another lockdown as most Tory MPs will vote against them and topple any Tory PM who tries to implement them.

    1/3 of Tory MPs will vote against vaxports tomorrow, around 2/3 of Tory MPs would vote against another lockdown. Boosters are the way out of Omicron not locking down again
    Are you seriously suggesting that a government lockdown would be voted down?
    It would bring down the government and split the Tory Party asunder for a generation.
    Splendid idea! Carry on!
  • NHS in crisis mode as hospitals told to discharge patients where possible

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/13/covid-nhs-in-crisis-mode-as-hospitals-told-to-discharge-patients-where-possible

    If they have called this wrong, how many will die from hospitals basically becoming COVID only again?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    I know.
    But why would you go to a bar without alcohol? Is this just a way to avoid compensation by not having ordered them closed?
    Jeepers creepers. Are you so deep in the arms of the marketing men that the possibility of a night out without intoxicating liquor is beyond your comprehension??

    Meeting friends, eating, having a (soft) drink, laughing, socialising, living.

    Life goes on without alcohol you know.
    How long do you think pubs would last if alcohol was banned?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Boris does too little, too late, again.
    That sound like too much, too soon to me
    Hence the Tory Government’s quandary:

    Folk like me, who are right, are never going to vote for them, so why should they care?

    Folk like you, who are wrong, might vote for them, so they have to care.

    Of course, if they actually cared about the public good, they would just do the right thing and to hell with the electoral consequences. But they don’t. Of course.
    I don’t understand your position here. Are you advocating that they forcibly shutter all pubs and restaurants? Really?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    I know.
    But why would you go to a bar without alcohol? Is this just a way to avoid compensation by not having ordered them closed?
    Jeepers creepers. Are you so deep in the arms of the marketing men that the possibility of a night out without intoxicating liquor is beyond your comprehension??

    Meeting friends, eating, having a (soft) drink, laughing, socialising, living.

    Life goes on without alcohol you know.
    No. But there are more convivial places to do that than a bar. A bar is for drinking.
    A teetotal night out with friends would be somewhere else.
  • HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Labour are parking their tanks on the Lib Dem's lawn. Going after their bar charts.

    (Btw, Labour can make a fortune betting if they think they will come 2nd.)


    Great leaflet for the Tories from Labour there, could almost have been written by CCHQ.

    If the Tories win by less than 5% over the LDs and that leaflet gets Labour 15% not 10% they will know who to thank
    How often do you think a single leaflet in a by-election campaign has shifted a party's vote that much? It's just totally unrealistic in the context of a by-election with a daily flood of literature even if it got through a high proportion of letterboxes, which is extremely doubtful.

    The message is also a bit transparently desperate. It implicitly acknowledges that the Lib Dems have been campaigning extremely hard, and thereby repeats their message for them. It's a leaflet that feels very strongly as if it is trying to answer a point made time and again from people who normally vote Labour - that they won't be doing so this time, as it looks as if the Lib Dems are contenders and they aren't. If Labour hadn't been drowned out by the Lib Dems in the constituency, it'd just not be a point they needed to make.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    If omi is as transmissible as the hawks assure us it is, being drunk is going to make sod all difference!
  • RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    I know.
    But why would you go to a bar without alcohol? Is this just a way to avoid compensation by not having ordered them closed?
    Jeepers creepers. Are you so deep in the arms of the marketing men that the possibility of a night out without intoxicating liquor is beyond your comprehension??

    Meeting friends, eating, having a (soft) drink, laughing, socialising, living.

    Life goes on without alcohol you know.
    How long do you think pubs would last if alcohol was banned?
    Norwegian ones will last for a few weeks. They’ll have to.

    English ones? Dunno. Much more reliant on basket case alcohol dependency is my guess.

    I wonder what England would look like if she sobered up?
    I wonder what 10 Downing Street would look like on the wagon?
    Slightly less porky for a start.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The pandemic to be with us until 2025?

    ‘Government’s Test and Trace service could run until 2025, consulting contracts suggest’
    - One of four new deals worth up to £111m indicate foreign travel rules may also be in force for years

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/test-and-trace-2025-covid-b1974905.html?amp

    Covid testing for travel purposes could be with us for decades. The security rules restricting the carriage of liquids on aircraft, for example, were introduced fifteen years ago and there's still no sign of them being repealed.

    God alone knows how many Covid variant panics we're going to have to go through before the authorities stop getting the jitters over them.
    I suppose the only hope in this case is that COVID testing is such a deterrent to travel the industry will lobby so hard to get rid. Not taking liquids is stupid (as experts have shown they can still easily make a bomb) and a pain, but it isn't anywhere near as problematic as COVID testing.
    In the long run it'll be a manageable but pretty pointless nuisance, so perhaps it will be gone in years rather than decades? But nobody's letting go of it in the shorter term, and you'd have to be quite desperate to go abroad whilst widespread Covid testing and self-isolation requirements are in place. The risks of getting caught out by a positive test whilst travelling and having to isolate at your destination for a fortnight, and/or of the scary new Dildo variant magically appearing in the country that you're visiting, and the UK Government therefore forcing you to do a fortnight of hotel quarantine when you get back home, is simply too great.
    I agree. No further than the IoW for me until the autumn. It is simply too much hassle and uncertainty.
    Yes, it's a challenge for me as many longstanding friends live in other countries and I used to travel on a SeanT scale - a few years ago I was in 25 countries in 3 years (mostly for work). I'd love to visit my friends again or try some new places. What's stopping me is not so much well-defined hassle - test 1 here, test 2 there, do this, don't do that - as the potential for sudden unpredictable hassle - no flights at all, or everyone in quarantine for 2 weeks. If the disease becomes endemic and the regulations stabilise I'll travel again, but not at the moment.
    Yes, if you are retired or can knapp anywhere, getting locked down abroad for a long time is not more than a hassle and expense. For those of us on a payroll it's more of a problem.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    I know.
    But why would you go to a bar without alcohol? Is this just a way to avoid compensation by not having ordered them closed?
    Jeepers creepers. Are you so deep in the arms of the marketing men that the possibility of a night out without intoxicating liquor is beyond your comprehension??

    Meeting friends, eating, having a (soft) drink, laughing, socialising, living.

    Life goes on without alcohol you know.
    How long do you think pubs would last if alcohol was banned?
    Norwegian ones will last for a few weeks. They’ll have to.

    English ones? Dunno. Much more reliant on basket case alcohol dependency is my guess.

    I wonder what England would look like if she sobered up?
    I wonder what 10 Downing Street would look like on the wagon?
    Slightly less porky for a start.
    Could the Norwegian ones last more than a few weeks?
  • WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Boris does too little, too late, again.
    That sound like too much, too soon to me
    Hence the Tory Government’s quandary:

    Folk like me, who are right, are never going to vote for them, so why should they care?

    Folk like you, who are wrong, might vote for them, so they have to care.

    Of course, if they actually cared about the public good, they would just do the right thing and to hell with the electoral consequences. But they don’t. Of course.
    I don’t understand your position here. Are you advocating that they forcibly shutter all pubs and restaurants? Really?
    I’d confine the retail sale of alcohol to state monopoly shops, with tax rates that’d make you weep. Open 2 hours a week. No fridges. Order one month in advance.

    So, your rhetorical question is probably aimed at the wrong person.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Thinking of daft regulations and subsequent confusion, does anyone remember the chaos in the immediate aftermath of the Rule of Six?

    Some pubs continued to apply it outdoors even though it had by then become the Rule of Thirty outdoors by law and no longer applied. Others allowed bigger groups than six, but only if they were booked as chunks of six under two different names. A third scenario was that grown ups and children could be separated to allow larger groups, which we utilised quite happily several times on holiday as it meant the pub kept an eye on the children while we enjoyed our lunch.

    Funny old world.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552

    pigeon said:

    The pandemic to be with us until 2025?

    ‘Government’s Test and Trace service could run until 2025, consulting contracts suggest’
    - One of four new deals worth up to £111m indicate foreign travel rules may also be in force for years

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/test-and-trace-2025-covid-b1974905.html?amp

    Covid testing for travel purposes could be with us for decades. The security rules restricting the carriage of liquids on aircraft, for example, were introduced fifteen years ago and there's still no sign of them being repealed.

    God alone knows how many Covid variant panics we're going to have to go through before the authorities stop getting the jitters over them.
    I suppose the only hope in this case is that COVID testing is such a deterrent to travel the industry will lobby so hard to get rid. Not taking liquids is stupid (as experts have shown they can still easily make a bomb) and a pain, but it isn't anywhere near as problematic as COVID testing.
    I never understood the problem with liquids. Why on Earth do you need them with you in the hold? Stick them all in your checked bag, if you really need to take them. Why anyone goes to that ludicrous faff of decanting stuff is beyond me. Pretty much every hotel on Earth supplies shampoo.
    It was supposed to be a temporary measure in response to 9/11.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,152
    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    He just meant the two of you would be dead.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    The pandemic to be with us until 2025?

    ‘Government’s Test and Trace service could run until 2025, consulting contracts suggest’
    - One of four new deals worth up to £111m indicate foreign travel rules may also be in force for years

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/test-and-trace-2025-covid-b1974905.html?amp

    Covid testing for travel purposes could be with us for decades. The security rules restricting the carriage of liquids on aircraft, for example, were introduced fifteen years ago and there's still no sign of them being repealed.

    God alone knows how many Covid variant panics we're going to have to go through before the authorities stop getting the jitters over them.
    I suppose the only hope in this case is that COVID testing is such a deterrent to travel the industry will lobby so hard to get rid. Not taking liquids is stupid (as experts have shown they can still easily make a bomb) and a pain, but it isn't anywhere near as problematic as COVID testing.
    I never understood the problem with liquids. Why on Earth do you need them with you in the hold? Stick them all in your checked bag, if you really need to take them. Why anyone goes to that ludicrous faff of decanting stuff is beyond me. Pretty much every hotel on Earth supplies shampoo.
    It was supposed to be a temporary measure in response to 9/11.
    It might have been implemented in response to 9/11, but did they say it was temporary?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2021
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    The pandemic to be with us until 2025?

    ‘Government’s Test and Trace service could run until 2025, consulting contracts suggest’
    - One of four new deals worth up to £111m indicate foreign travel rules may also be in force for years

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/test-and-trace-2025-covid-b1974905.html?amp

    Covid testing for travel purposes could be with us for decades. The security rules restricting the carriage of liquids on aircraft, for example, were introduced fifteen years ago and there's still no sign of them being repealed.

    God alone knows how many Covid variant panics we're going to have to go through before the authorities stop getting the jitters over them.
    I suppose the only hope in this case is that COVID testing is such a deterrent to travel the industry will lobby so hard to get rid. Not taking liquids is stupid (as experts have shown they can still easily make a bomb) and a pain, but it isn't anywhere near as problematic as COVID testing.
    I never understood the problem with liquids. Why on Earth do you need them with you in the hold? Stick them all in your checked bag, if you really need to take them. Why anyone goes to that ludicrous faff of decanting stuff is beyond me. Pretty much every hotel on Earth supplies shampoo.
    It was supposed to be a temporary measure in response to 9/11.
    It might have been implemented in response to 9/11, but did they say it was temporary?
    Iirc, it was put in place suddenly, some time after 9/11 in response to a specific plot by AQ. The specific threat has probably passed, but the vulnerability remains.
  • WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Boris does too little, too late, again.
    That sound like too much, too soon to me
    Hence the Tory Government’s quandary:

    Folk like me, who are right, are never going to vote for them, so why should they care?

    Folk like you, who are wrong, might vote for them, so they have to care.

    Of course, if they actually cared about the public good, they would just do the right thing and to hell with the electoral consequences. But they don’t. Of course.
    I don’t understand your position here. Are you advocating that they forcibly shutter all pubs and restaurants? Really?
    I’d confine the retail sale of alcohol to state monopoly shops, with tax rates that’d make you weep. Open 2 hours a week. No fridges. Order one month in advance.

    So, your rhetorical question is probably aimed at the wrong person.
    Thank goodness puritan pricks like you will only ever be whining from the sidelines then.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    ping said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    The pandemic to be with us until 2025?

    ‘Government’s Test and Trace service could run until 2025, consulting contracts suggest’
    - One of four new deals worth up to £111m indicate foreign travel rules may also be in force for years

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/test-and-trace-2025-covid-b1974905.html?amp

    Covid testing for travel purposes could be with us for decades. The security rules restricting the carriage of liquids on aircraft, for example, were introduced fifteen years ago and there's still no sign of them being repealed.

    God alone knows how many Covid variant panics we're going to have to go through before the authorities stop getting the jitters over them.
    I suppose the only hope in this case is that COVID testing is such a deterrent to travel the industry will lobby so hard to get rid. Not taking liquids is stupid (as experts have shown they can still easily make a bomb) and a pain, but it isn't anywhere near as problematic as COVID testing.
    I never understood the problem with liquids. Why on Earth do you need them with you in the hold? Stick them all in your checked bag, if you really need to take them. Why anyone goes to that ludicrous faff of decanting stuff is beyond me. Pretty much every hotel on Earth supplies shampoo.
    It was supposed to be a temporary measure in response to 9/11.
    It might have been implemented in response to 9/11, but did they say it was temporary?
    Iirc, it was put in place suddenly, some time after 9/11 in response to a specific plot by AQ. The threat has probably passed, but the vulnerability remains.
    I think you mean this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_plot
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    We had those idiotic pints with chips substantial meal rules. Same as that I guess.
    Christ. Scotch Egg Gate. I had forgotten about that nonsense. Who comes up with this moronic stuff?
    The new Norwegian law is different. No alcohol sales full stop. You can have an Irn Bru or a cup of tea with your Scotch Egg, but not an eggnog.
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    I know.
    But why would you go to a bar without alcohol? Is this just a way to avoid compensation by not having ordered them closed?
    Jeepers creepers. Are you so deep in the arms of the marketing men that the possibility of a night out without intoxicating liquor is beyond your comprehension??

    Meeting friends, eating, having a (soft) drink, laughing, socialising, living.

    Life goes on without alcohol you know.
    How long do you think pubs would last if alcohol was banned?
    Norwegian ones will last for a few weeks. They’ll have to.

    English ones? Dunno. Much more reliant on basket case alcohol dependency is my guess.

    I wonder what England would look like if she sobered up?
    I wonder what 10 Downing Street would look like on the wagon?
    Slightly less porky for a start.
    Could the Norwegian ones last more than a few weeks?
    Good question.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,152

    Quincel said:

    Labour are parking their tanks on the Lib Dem's lawn. Going after their bar charts.

    Labour are going to look stupid as anything if the LibDems lose by 1%.
    If you're the Labour Party, do you want (a) to vanquish the other centre-left party, or (b) risk being supplanted by them.

    Labour would much rather the Conservatives won.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited December 2021

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Boris does too little, too late, again.
    That sound like too much, too soon to me
    Hence the Tory Government’s quandary:

    Folk like me, who are right, are never going to vote for them, so why should they care?

    Folk like you, who are wrong, might vote for them, so they have to care.

    Of course, if they actually cared about the public good, they would just do the right thing and to hell with the electoral consequences. But they don’t. Of course.
    I don’t understand your position here. Are you advocating that they forcibly shutter all pubs and restaurants? Really?
    I’d confine the retail sale of alcohol to state monopoly shops, with tax rates that’d make you weep. Open 2 hours a week. No fridges. Order one month in advance.

    So, your rhetorical question is probably aimed at the wrong person.
    Well, no. It was aimed at you. And I’m not sure you have answered it. Do you include pubs and restaurants in ‘retail sale’? I.e. would you permanently ban them from serving alcohol?
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Labour are parking their tanks on the Lib Dem's lawn. Going after their bar charts.

    (Btw, Labour can make a fortune betting if they think they will come 2nd.)


    Great leaflet for the Tories from Labour there, could almost have been written by CCHQ.

    If the Tories win by less than 5% over the LDs and that leaflet gets Labour 15% not 10% they will know who to thank
    I would argue (like others) that Labour want N Shrops to stay blue and for Johnson to limp on into 2022/3
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    Personal post. I'm up late tonight, and on here, as I've been waiting for my first grandchild to be born. Daughter-in-law went into labour at 7pm this evening. Baby boy has just arrived! Hoping they all get back from hospital free of Omicron......
    Good night.

    Super good news! Best wishes to you all.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,520
    edited December 2021

    Personal post. I'm up late tonight, and on here, as I've been waiting for my first grandchild to be born. Daughter-in-law went into labour at 7pm this evening. Baby boy has just arrived! Hoping they all get back from hospital free of Omicron......
    Good night.

    Brilliant Mr Northern. Many congratulations and a hope for many (atheistic) blessings upon your grandson. May he grow up in a world worthy of him.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Personal post. I'm up late tonight, and on here, as I've been waiting for my first grandchild to be born. Daughter-in-law went into labour at 7pm this evening. Baby boy has just arrived! Hoping they all get back from hospital free of Omicron......
    Good night.

    Congratulations sir! Wonderful news!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    edited December 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Quincel said:

    Labour are parking their tanks on the Lib Dem's lawn. Going after their bar charts.

    Labour are going to look stupid as anything if the LibDems lose by 1%.
    If you're the Labour Party, do you want (a) to vanquish the other centre-left party, or (b) risk being supplanted by them.

    Labour would much rather the Conservatives won.
    Come off it. They are 30+ points behind them in the polls.
    Not sure being supplanted by the LD's is in the top 50 of Labour's worries.

    And centre-left is pushing it really.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    Personal post. I'm up late tonight, and on here, as I've been waiting for my first grandchild to be born. Daughter-in-law went into labour at 7pm this evening. Baby boy has just arrived! Hoping they all get back from hospital free of Omicron......
    Good night.

    Congratulations!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Personal post. I'm up late tonight, and on here, as I've been waiting for my first grandchild to be born. Daughter-in-law went into labour at 7pm this evening. Baby boy has just arrived! Hoping they all get back from hospital free of Omicron......
    Good night.

    Huzzah!
  • RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    I know.
    But why would you go to a bar without alcohol? Is this just a way to avoid compensation by not having ordered them closed?
    Jeepers creepers. Are you so deep in the arms of the marketing men that the possibility of a night out without intoxicating liquor is beyond your comprehension??

    Meeting friends, eating, having a (soft) drink, laughing, socialising, living.

    Life goes on without alcohol you know.
    How long do you think pubs would last if alcohol was banned?
    Norwegian ones will last for a few weeks. They’ll have to.

    English ones? Dunno. Much more reliant on basket case alcohol dependency is my guess.

    I wonder what England would look like if she sobered up?
    I wonder what 10 Downing Street would look like on the wagon?
    Slightly less porky for a start.
    I note you are implying alcoholism is a problem in England as opposed to the UK as a whole. And yet Scotland has much higher rates of alcoholism and alcohol related deaths than England. Your hatred for the English stretches so far that you have to warp the facts to suit your own bigotry.

    Given I am a strong advocate of a positive case for Scottish Independence I find you an embarrassment to that cause.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited December 2021
    Pro_Rata said:

    Those of a nervous disposition (much of PB) should avoid looking at the weather models, which are projecting a cold, possibly snowy, interlude over the festive season. Omicron the Icy etc etc.

    Lets not Daily Express this one. The 28 day Met Office, which I like for being level headed does not once mention the word 'snow' although 'frost' and 'fog' do feature over the holiday period. They are plumping quite clearly for cold and settled at the moment.
    Frost and fog = no wind generation - with those gas prices?

    Ruh roh. Stock up on logs and petrol for the generator.
  • Congratulations Northern! :grin:
  • Just finished watching the greatest Christmas action movie of all time. As Ode to Joy plays through the credits, there can be no doubt that its the one of the greatest Christmas films of all time too.

    As for Ode to Joy itself, its brilliantly used throughout the film, interspersed with Christmas songs as befits such a timeless Christmas classic. This film will surely always be the main modern day thing to be associated with Beethoven's 9th.
  • Just finished watching the greatest Christmas action movie of all time. As Ode to Joy plays through the credits, there can be no doubt that its the one of the greatest Christmas films of all time too.

    As for Ode to Joy itself, its brilliantly used throughout the film, interspersed with Christmas songs as befits such a timeless Christmas classic. This film will surely always be the main modern day thing to be associated with Beethoven's 9th.

    That is indeed a great Christmas film. :)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    Just finished watching the greatest Christmas action movie of all time. As Ode to Joy plays through the credits, there can be no doubt that its the one of the greatest Christmas films of all time too.

    As for Ode to Joy itself, its brilliantly used throughout the film, interspersed with Christmas songs as befits such a timeless Christmas classic. This film will surely always be the main modern day thing to be associated with Beethoven's 9th.

    Beethoven's 9th is the very apex of Western Civilisation for me.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    "Safer people". Creepy stuff.

    I hope someone has a word with me if ever end up "safe".
  • The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    despite massive issues in local govt funding, education, health and social care, child poverty and well being, climate crisis, COVID, Northern Ireland and Russia threatening Ukraine another round of `culture wars and Europe' beckon as the No 10 and CCHQ chase favourable media from the usual newspapers......
    Suppose it will have nowt to say about stripping citizenship from dual nationals without even informing them?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    edited December 2021
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    pigeon said:

    The pandemic to be with us until 2025?

    ‘Government’s Test and Trace service could run until 2025, consulting contracts suggest’
    - One of four new deals worth up to £111m indicate foreign travel rules may also be in force for years

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/test-and-trace-2025-covid-b1974905.html?amp

    Covid testing for travel purposes could be with us for decades. The security rules restricting the carriage of liquids on aircraft, for example, were introduced fifteen years ago and there's still no sign of them being repealed.

    God alone knows how many Covid variant panics we're going to have to go through before the authorities stop getting the jitters over them.
    I suppose the only hope in this case is that COVID testing is such a deterrent to travel the industry will lobby so hard to get rid. Not taking liquids is stupid (as experts have shown they can still easily make a bomb) and a pain, but it isn't anywhere near as problematic as COVID testing.
    I never understood the problem with liquids. Why on Earth do you need them with you in the hold? Stick them all in your checked bag, if you really need to take them. Why anyone goes to that ludicrous faff of decanting stuff is beyond me. Pretty much every hotel on Earth supplies shampoo.
    It was supposed to be a temporary measure in response to 9/11.
    It might have been implemented in response to 9/11, but did they say it was temporary?
    Most of the measures imposed after 9/11 were supposed to be temporary as I recall.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Got my booster yesterday here in Spain - Moderna added to my previous AZ x2. Pretty chuffed as minimal side effects except a very slight soreness in the arm this morning. Anywhere ready to face the world here a little more securely once the antibodies start waking up as well!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,152
    felix said:

    Got my booster yesterday here in Spain - Moderna added to my previous AZ x2. Pretty chuffed as minimal side effects except a very slight soreness in the arm this morning. Anywhere ready to face the world here a little more securely once the antibodies start waking up as well!

    I have good news and bad news.

    The good news is that AZ-AZ-Moderna offers excellent protection.

    The bad news is that the Moderna "after effects" typically start at 24 hours. Be prepared to be wiped out.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    Got my booster yesterday here in Spain - Moderna added to my previous AZ x2. Pretty chuffed as minimal side effects except a very slight soreness in the arm this morning. Anywhere ready to face the world here a little more securely once the antibodies start waking up as well!

    I have good news and bad news.

    The good news is that AZ-AZ-Moderna offers excellent protection.

    The bad news is that the Moderna "after effects" typically start at 24 hours. Be prepared to be wiped out.
    Yep. I and many others I know had the same. But it's in a good cause ;)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    I've stayed out of these two by-elections because neither are the right territory for the respective challengers. If the LibDems do pull it off on Thursday it will be a sensation.

    I like Mike's low Labour vote suggestion.
  • New Survation/Good Morning Britain poll

    Catastrophic for Red Wall Con MPs

    North Lab 49% Con 29%
    Midlands L 47% C 33%
    South C 43% L 35%
    London L 48% C 27%

    England L 43% C 35%
    Scotland SNP 53% C 20% L 13%
    Wales L 54% PC 21% C 21%

    Women L 42% C 30%
    Men L 37% C 33%

    UK L 39% C 32% LD 9% SNP 5% Grn 5% Ref 4%

    (On behalf of ITV’s Good Morning Britain, Survation interviewed 1,218 adults online aged 18+ living in the UK between 10th and 11th December 2021.)
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    Heathener said:

    I've stayed out of these two by-elections because neither are the right territory for the respective challengers. If the LibDems do pull it off on Thursday it will be a sensation.

    I like Mike's low Labour vote suggestion.

    No need to stay out, you can still win by backing non challengers. I've had a Bexley and North Salop double.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    A typical lawyer, he puts all his writings behind paywalls.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    A typical lawyer, he puts all his writings behind paywalls.
    It’s free at my end. It isn’t actually a link to the Times.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    A typical lawyer, he puts all his writings behind paywalls.
    These comments are free.

    But I can summarise for you if you want.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    The pandemic to be with us until 2025?

    ‘Government’s Test and Trace service could run until 2025, consulting contracts suggest’
    - One of four new deals worth up to £111m indicate foreign travel rules may also be in force for years

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/test-and-trace-2025-covid-b1974905.html?amp

    Covid testing for travel purposes could be with us for decades. The security rules restricting the carriage of liquids on aircraft, for example, were introduced fifteen years ago and there's still no sign of them being repealed.

    God alone knows how many Covid variant panics we're going to have to go through before the authorities stop getting the jitters over them.
    I suppose the only hope in this case is that COVID testing is such a deterrent to travel the industry will lobby so hard to get rid. Not taking liquids is stupid (as experts have shown they can still easily make a bomb) and a pain, but it isn't anywhere near as problematic as COVID testing.
    In the long run it'll be a manageable but pretty pointless nuisance, so perhaps it will be gone in years rather than decades? But nobody's letting go of it in the shorter term, and you'd have to be quite desperate to go abroad whilst widespread Covid testing and self-isolation requirements are in place. The risks of getting caught out by a positive test whilst travelling and having to isolate at your destination for a fortnight, and/or of the scary new Dildo variant magically appearing in the country that you're visiting, and the UK Government therefore forcing you to do a fortnight of hotel quarantine when you get back home, is simply too great.
    I know what you mean. Today is only my second foreign trip in the last 10 days
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    Got my booster yesterday here in Spain - Moderna added to my previous AZ x2. Pretty chuffed as minimal side effects except a very slight soreness in the arm this morning. Anywhere ready to face the world here a little more securely once the antibodies start waking up as well!

    I have good news and bad news.

    The good news is that AZ-AZ-Moderna offers excellent protection.

    The bad news is that the Moderna "after effects" typically start at 24 hours. Be prepared to be wiped out.
    The research online suggest some may experience side effects after 12 hours - typically muscle pain and tiredness. I'm now 13 hours in and so far I can only report the mildest twinges. I'm 67 and tbf tiredness, general aches and pains, not to mmention chronic hypochondria, are pretty much everyday things at my age and I wonder if this is why most of my contemporaries report little noticeable effects from boosters. Also I had zero side effects of note from my AZ shots earlier in the year.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    edited December 2021
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs?
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Miss Cyclefree, you tinker!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs?
    F1?
    The law? ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs?
    F1?
    I don’t think you can say that’s been ‘dull’ exactly. Why, even lawyers have been arguing over every detail…
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Who are these "Whitehall officials" and why should they control whether or not the Dog & Duck in Mansfield stays open ?
    I'm guessing they were told/asked to draw up contingency plans so they are available to the minister if needed.
    May be I’m just getting older, but it seems that for the last 5-6 years (I saw it happen during the Brexit wars first) that virtually everything gets leaked. Was it this bad in the past? I don’t think so, but maybe I have road tinted glasses on.

    If there can be no presumption of confidentiality it makes government work much much harder
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs
    I am intrigued by the DMT hallucinations he had, given they’re a twisted manifestation of your sub conscience. Some reckon it’s not uncommon to have a natural DMT trip at the moment of death. There’s also now some early research on its use as a depression and addiction treatment. Others muse that its use by shamens and priests certainly fed the myths and legends of our early spiritual development, with the use of hallucinogens a key component all the way up to the Greek Mysteries in Western civilisation. Some wilder folk even wonder if the commonality in appearance and nature of the hallucinogenic beings (the DMT elves) suggests there’s more to it all than meets the eye.

    Plenty of material for a diverting magazine piece by Leon there.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs?
    F1?
    That’s about to provide a lot of work for lawyers. One team even took a QC with them to the last race, in anticipation of the events that occurred.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    Who are these "Whitehall officials" and why should they control whether or not the Dog & Duck in Mansfield stays open ?
    I'm guessing they were told/asked to draw up contingency plans so they are available to the minister if needed.
    May be I’m just getting older, but it seems that for the last 5-6 years (I saw it happen during the Brexit wars first) that virtually everything gets leaked. Was it this bad in the past? I don’t think so, but maybe I have road tinted glasses on.

    If there can be no presumption of confidentiality it makes government work much much harder
    Commonly it is the government that’s doing it!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    The question was why should they keep pubs open if people can't get drunk. There's no use for them otherwise.
    Cribbage?
    Shufflepuck?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    WHITEHALL officials have drawn up plans to restrict numbers in pubs and restaurants and even close them down in the coming weeks. There are growing fears of further resections after Christmas as Omicron is expected to peak in January, with New Year parties in grave doubt.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17031393/pubs-restaurants-closed-entry-limits-omicron/

    That’s proper lockdown. Gosh. Who could have predicted THAT??
    A re-post for Sean, in case you missed it earlier this evening:

    Breaking, from press conference in Oslo:

    Norway is to enforce a total ban on the sale of alcohol in pubs, bars and restaurants for at least the next 4 weeks.
    Wait.
    They're banning alcohol in pubs and bars, but allowing them to stay open?
    Why exactly?
    Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

    Intoxicated people lose their inhibitions (case study: Sean). Lost inhibition means not respecting social distancing, or worse (snogging, sex).

    Sober people are safer people.
    "Safer people". Creepy stuff.

    I hope someone has a word with me if ever end up "safe".
    As I said yesterday, puritanism gets some people very hard. Sticky pants all round in whichever committee devises these measures.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs?
    F1?
    That’s about to provide a lot of work for lawyers. One team even took a QC with them to the last race, in anticipation of the events that occurred.
    Have Mercedes now dropped their appeal though?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs
    I am intrigued by the DMT hallucinations he had, given they’re a twisted manifestation of your sub conscience. Some reckon it’s not uncommon to have a natural DMT trip at the moment of death. There’s also now some early research on its use as a depression and addiction treatment. Others muse that its use by shamens and priests certainly fed the myths and legends of our early spiritual development, with the use of hallucinogens a key component all the way up to the Greek Mysteries in Western civilisation. Some wilder folk even wonder if the commonality in appearance and nature of the hallucinogenic beings (the DMT elves) suggests there’s more to it all than meets the eye.

    Plenty of material for a diverting magazine piece by Leon there.
    Sure, drug experiences can be vivid for the individual, but they are tediously dull when recounted to an audience. It's like hearing peoples stories of their weird dreams, only much longer and more boring.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    A typical lawyer, he puts all his writings behind paywalls.
    These comments are free.

    But I can summarise for you if you want.
    The first time I clicked on the Substack link, it said it was for subscribers only. The second time, it worked!

    The HRA fundamentally changed the relationship between the Judiciary and Parliament, and many of the appointments to the Strasbourg court have been fundamentally political in nature.

    Having left the EU, where membership of the ECHR was compulsory, it’s worth taking another look at that relationship, although there’s a fine line to tread in trying to rebalance the relationship in favour of Parliament.

    A starting point should be, for example, that a foreign national sentenced to a year’s imprisonment should be assumed to be a candidate for deportation, except in very exceptional circumstances. People who wish to appeal their deportation, can do so from outside the UK and at their own expense.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs?
    F1?
    That’s about to provide a lot of work for lawyers. One team even took a QC with them to the last race, in anticipation of the events that occurred.
    Have Mercedes now dropped their appeal though?
    They have until Thursday to decide.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    To end on a cheery note, one of the guys I did ayahuasca with today - extremely smart, well connected, very senior, I’ll say no more than that - predicted the “end of human civilisation as we know it, within the next 7-10 years”

    It all added to the gaiety

    Nighty night from the Jaguar Realms

    That’s no fun unless he predicts how!

    When do we get to hear about what crazy things you saw
    Stoned bloke speaks bollocks, what a surprise!

    Is there anything more dull than hearing other people's accounts of drugs
    I am intrigued by the DMT hallucinations he had, given they’re a twisted manifestation of your sub conscience. Some reckon it’s not uncommon to have a natural DMT trip at the moment of death. There’s also now some early research on its use as a depression and addiction treatment. Others muse that its use by shamens and priests certainly fed the myths and legends of our early spiritual development, with the use of hallucinogens a key component all the way up to the Greek Mysteries in Western civilisation. Some wilder folk even wonder if the commonality in appearance and nature of the hallucinogenic beings (the DMT elves) suggests there’s more to it all than meets the eye.

    Plenty of material for a diverting magazine piece by Leon there.
    Sure, drug experiences can be vivid for the individual, but they are tediously dull when recounted to an audience. It's like hearing peoples stories of their weird dreams, only much longer and more boring.
    I dunno, all the bible stories about demons and angels are mildly diverting and they were probably accounts of drug trips.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    edited December 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    A typical lawyer, he puts all his writings behind paywalls.
    These comments are free.

    But I can summarise for you if you want.
    The first time I clicked on the Substack link, it said it was for subscribers only. The second time, it worked!

    The HRA fundamentally changed the relationship between the Judiciary and Parliament, and many of the appointments to the Strasbourg court have been fundamentally political in nature.

    Having left the EU, where membership of the ECHR was compulsory, it’s worth taking another look at that relationship, although there’s a fine line to tread in trying to rebalance the relationship in favour of Parliament.

    A starting point should be, for example, that a foreign national sentenced to a year’s imprisonment should be assumed to be a candidate for deportation, except in very exceptional circumstances. People who wish to appeal their deportation, can do so from outside the UK and at their own expense.
    It would be nice to retain ancient freedoms like the right to protest though, and the right to not have your citizenship arbitrarily revoked.

    It is clear that this government does not believe in liberties or rights and will not protect them. This attack on the Human Rights Act is just another authoritarian power grab.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    I personally believe that the Lib Dems are going to win NS and that it won't be that close but its nice to see Labour giving the government a helping hand.

    NS has come at a bad time for the government with the hysteria about various things bubbling up and Boris's standing collapsing. They face a lot of irritation from their natural supporters for doing too much in response to Omicron and a lot of criticism from most for not doing even more. Plus its a by election, a free hit to tell the government that we are not happy with our lot and the Lib Dems are good at pointless gestures. If we are really lucky we might get a rerun of Ed Davey playing with his lego bricks.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    Rosenburg seems pretty balanced. A bit meh is his conclusion I think
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    Got my booster yesterday here in Spain - Moderna added to my previous AZ x2. Pretty chuffed as minimal side effects except a very slight soreness in the arm this morning. Anywhere ready to face the world here a little more securely once the antibodies start waking up as well!

    I have good news and bad news.

    The good news is that AZ-AZ-Moderna offers excellent protection.

    The bad news is that the Moderna "after effects" typically start at 24 hours. Be prepared to be wiped out.
    The research online suggest some may experience side effects after 12 hours - typically muscle pain and tiredness. I'm now 13 hours in and so far I can only report the mildest twinges. I'm 67 and tbf tiredness, general aches and pains, not to mmention chronic hypochondria, are pretty much everyday things at my age and I wonder if this is why most of my contemporaries report little noticeable effects from boosters. Also I had zero side effects of note from my AZ shots earlier in the year.
    The first MRNA shot is fine. The second wipes you out. The third is a doozy.

    I was AZ-AZ-PFE and got hit at 20 hours. But nothing a 2 hour nap mid afternoon couldn’t fix
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    edited December 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    A typical lawyer, he puts all his writings behind paywalls.
    These comments are free.

    But I can summarise for you if you want.
    The first time I clicked on the Substack link, it said it was for subscribers only. The second time, it worked!

    The HRA fundamentally changed the relationship between the Judiciary and Parliament, and many of the appointments to the Strasbourg court have been fundamentally political in nature.

    Having left the EU, where membership of the ECHR was compulsory, it’s worth taking another look at that relationship, although there’s a fine line to tread in trying to rebalance the relationship in favour of Parliament.

    A starting point should be, for example, that a foreign national sentenced to a year’s imprisonment should be assumed to be a candidate for deportation, except in very exceptional circumstances. People who wish to appeal their deportation, can do so from outside the UK and at their own expense.
    IANAE in that area but I am pretty sure that last paragraph is the law already. Section 32(5) of the UK Borders Act 2007 mandates that, unless certain circumstances apply, the Home Secretary must make a deportation order against a ‘foreign criminal’ who has been sentenced to 12 months or more.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Why is the Twitter account of No 10 celebrating half a million booster doses being booked in one day, after all that publicity? Isn’t that the same number we’re been doing daily for a while, and well below par for the new target?
  • New Survation/Good Morning Britain poll

    Catastrophic for Red Wall Con MPs

    North Lab 49% Con 29%
    Midlands L 47% C 33%
    South C 43% L 35%
    London L 48% C 27%

    England L 43% C 35%
    Scotland SNP 53% C 20% L 13%
    Wales L 54% PC 21% C 21%

    Women L 42% C 30%
    Men L 37% C 33%

    UK L 39% C 32% LD 9% SNP 5% Grn 5% Ref 4%

    (On behalf of ITV’s Good Morning Britain, Survation interviewed 1,218 adults online aged 18+ living in the UK between 10th and 11th December 2021.)

    Women v pissed off with the cad-in-chief I see.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    A typical lawyer, he puts all his writings behind paywalls.
    These comments are free.

    But I can summarise for you if you want.
    The first time I clicked on the Substack link, it said it was for subscribers only. The second time, it worked!

    The HRA fundamentally changed the relationship between the Judiciary and Parliament, and many of the appointments to the Strasbourg court have been fundamentally political in nature.

    Having left the EU, where membership of the ECHR was compulsory, it’s worth taking another look at that relationship, although there’s a fine line to tread in trying to rebalance the relationship in favour of Parliament.

    A starting point should be, for example, that a foreign national sentenced to a year’s imprisonment should be assumed to be a candidate for deportation, except in very exceptional circumstances. People who wish to appeal their deportation, can do so from outside the UK and at their own expense.
    IANAE in that area but I am pretty sure that last paragraph is the law already. Section 32(5) of the UK Borders Act 2007 mandates that, unless certain circumstances apply, the Home Secretary must make a deportation order against a ‘foreign criminal’ who has been sentenced to 12 months or more.
    IANAL, but isn’t the issue the over-riding “right to a family life”, which has been interpreted over time in ways that make it practically impossible to actually deport anyone who has lived in the country for more than a couple of years?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government is launching what it says will be "common sense" reforms to the Human Rights Act that will "restore confidence" in the legal system.

    The proposals commit to staying within the European Convention on Human Rights, despite pressure from some Conservatives to leave the treaty.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59646684

    "The Law Society, which represents solicitors in England and Wales, urged the government to make sure that any reforms of the HRA were backed by evidence, not driven by political rhetoric."

    No comment could possibly do that justice.
    Oh, it could.

    Raab to claim overhaul of human rights law will counter ‘political correctness’
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/dec/14/raab-to-claim-overhaul-human-rights-law-counter-political-correctness
    Joshua Rosenberg comments here - https://twitter.com/joshuarozenberg/status/1470640201408167936?s=21
    A typical lawyer, he puts all his writings behind paywalls.
    These comments are free.

    But I can summarise for you if you want.
    The first time I clicked on the Substack link, it said it was for subscribers only. The second time, it worked!

    The HRA fundamentally changed the relationship between the Judiciary and Parliament, and many of the appointments to the Strasbourg court have been fundamentally political in nature.

    Having left the EU, where membership of the ECHR was compulsory, it’s worth taking another look at that relationship, although there’s a fine line to tread in trying to rebalance the relationship in favour of Parliament.

    A starting point should be, for example, that a foreign national sentenced to a year’s imprisonment should be assumed to be a candidate for deportation, except in very exceptional circumstances. People who wish to appeal their deportation, can do so from outside the UK and at their own expense.
    It would be nice to retain ancient freedoms like the right to protest though, and the right to not have your citizenship arbitrarily revoked.

    It is clear that this government does not believe in liberties or rights and will not protect them. This attack on the Human Rights Act is just another authoritarian power grab.
    Ultimately it's up to parliament. We'll see what happens in the USA where the judiciary is a co-equal branch - and in practice ABOVE the other two - for it is they that divine what the constitution actually means.
    Almost the only thing I'd like to see strengthened in the British system is a stronger mechanism than simple majority to say change the electoral cycle to once every hundred years, beyond the sanity of the monarch.
  • "Statisticians in South Africa have also noted that the case fatality rate – the percentage of people who go on to die from an infection – has fallen considerably since the arrival of omicron.

    With the delta variant, around three per cent of infections – one in 33 – were resulting in death, but now that figure has slumped to 0.5 per cent – one in 200"

    Telegraph
  • Charles said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    Got my booster yesterday here in Spain - Moderna added to my previous AZ x2. Pretty chuffed as minimal side effects except a very slight soreness in the arm this morning. Anywhere ready to face the world here a little more securely once the antibodies start waking up as well!

    I have good news and bad news.

    The good news is that AZ-AZ-Moderna offers excellent protection.

    The bad news is that the Moderna "after effects" typically start at 24 hours. Be prepared to be wiped out.
    The research online suggest some may experience side effects after 12 hours - typically muscle pain and tiredness. I'm now 13 hours in and so far I can only report the mildest twinges. I'm 67 and tbf tiredness, general aches and pains, not to mmention chronic hypochondria, are pretty much everyday things at my age and I wonder if this is why most of my contemporaries report little noticeable effects from boosters. Also I had zero side effects of note from my AZ shots earlier in the year.
    The first MRNA shot is fine. The second wipes you out. The third is a doozy.

    I was AZ-AZ-PFE and got hit at 20 hours. But nothing a 2 hour nap mid afternoon couldn’t fix
    I'm AZ-AZ-Pf too and had the booster Sunday afternoon. No side effects except some tenderness at the injection site. I will go for a run this evening and see if that uncovers any significant fatigue.
This discussion has been closed.