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BJ really struggling at PMQs – politicalbetting.com

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  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited December 2021

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    new Lib Dem pamphlet being distributed in North Shropshire by-election https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1468586170347098115/photo/1

    Isn't that illegal, if its not true?

    Seems a bit like Phil Woolas in Oldham East and Saddleworth.
    Anything is fair game in an election advert - up to outright lies provided they aren't libel.
    What's the key difference between this and Phil Woolas?
    Phil Woolas did it to a candidate standing in the election.

    All the same, it's at best an unproven extrapolation and at worst an outright lie. The Lib Dems do themselves no favours playing politics like that. No wonder no-one takes them seriously.
    Mr Carmichael MP got in hot water over that [edit] sort of thing in an election, too, though in a different way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/09/alistair-carmichael-lib-dem-election-court-throws-out-attempt-to-unseat-mp
    That article has a tag on it saying it's "more than 6 years old" when it's clearly less then 6 years old.
    It's a quirk caused by leap years.

    What it does is count the number of actual days between publication day and today then divides it by 365.

    Now leap years throws that off. As we've had two leap years since publication day it explains why it appears as more than six years old.
    Ok, good explanation for why it's wrong. But it is wrong.
    As someone who spent ages writing time and date munging code (including Julian date conversion etc), I'm always amused by this sort of thing. It gets *really* bad if you're writing code that has to work across different regions, and incredibly messy if you need to go back into history hundreds of years. The moment they made the latter a requirement I told them to (politely) eff off.

    It's nowhere near as bad as getting leap years wrong, though. Although 2000 was a bad year for that if you forgot the 'extra' rule ...
    Storing date/time as a number of seconds since [start date] seems like a good idea until you remember we have leap seconds as well as leap years, and they don't fit any particular pattern.

    That or it is 03:14:08 UTC on 19th January 2038.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    You think 35% of Tory voters wanting the PM they voted for 2 years ago to resign is a positive?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    131 additional confirmed cases of the #Omicron variant of COVID-19 have been reported across the UK.
    The total number of confirmed COVID-19 Omicron cases in the UK is 568.

    Increasing but not flying out of control, yet.
    The curve flattens daily.
    Yes, this is quite odd. That's a rather low increase.

    Probably just noise.
    Well according to my analysis (Google sheets exponent best fit) we're now on for 350,000 omicron cases by christmas day instead of 777,000. There'll be a tremendous amount of noise in daily figures though.
    Denmark has great surveillance and sequencing. Omicron is doubling every two days there



    "Michael Bang Petersen
    @M_B_Petersen
    ·
    Dec 7
    There is now officially community transmission with omicron in Denmark. ~50 % increase per day for the past few days.

    Remember: Denmark has a very high capacity for testing and variant detection and, hence, is without blindfolds.

    The spread is likely similar in your country."


    https://twitter.com/M_B_Petersen/status/1468237024939360273?s=20
    That's what Dr. Tim Spector (the ZOE app lead) said on Monday. Based upon the assumed number of cases actually being in the 1,000 - 2,000 region on that day, that would put Omicron on a path to make up the majority of extant cases in the UK just before Christmas day.
    Yes, I actually mapped this out a few days ago, on PB. Exponential growth is a doddle to extrapolate

    If pursued to its insane end there would be about 1m cases a day by mid January, IIRC

    But of course, long before then we would have gone into ultra-lockdown, or the virus would have burned out, or Boris would have thrown a toga-party for the entire nation and we'd all have fallen into the sea, drunk
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Get your booster.

    Chise DNAPetri dishMicrobeSyringe
    @sailorrooscout
    Fantastic news. Initial lab studies show a third dose of Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine neutralizes Omicron. A booster with the current version of the vaccine RAISES antibodies 25-FOLD providing a similar level as observed after two doses against the original virus and other variants!

    I want to but the bloody government won't let me!
    Apparently new instructions have just gone out that anyone over 40 is eligible - nor sure if that includes you?
    Still another few years until then, if the news from Pfizer is true and three doses neutralises Omicron it really is time to play the numbers game and throw the doors open. Capacity utilisation of 100% of appointments would have yielded an extra million doses per week in the last three weeks. Instead the NHS has once again been caught napping and 25m people are left wondering whether they'll become eligible before Xmas.
  • HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    You just do not get it do you

    At least Douglas Ross and Ruth Davidson speak for most conservatives on this unlike yourself
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Pulpstar said:

    maaarsh said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    131 additional confirmed cases of the #Omicron variant of COVID-19 have been reported across the UK.
    The total number of confirmed COVID-19 Omicron cases in the UK is 568.

    Increasing but not flying out of control, yet.
    The curve flattens daily.
    Yes, this is quite odd. That's a rather low increase.

    Probably just noise.
    Well according to my analysis (Google sheets exponent best fit) we're now on for 350,000 omicron cases by christmas day instead of 777,000. There'll be a tremendous amount of noise in daily figures though.
    Denmark has great surveillance and sequencing. Omicron is doubling every two days there



    "Michael Bang Petersen
    @M_B_Petersen
    ·
    Dec 7
    There is now officially community transmission with omicron in Denmark. ~50 % increase per day for the past few days.

    Remember: Denmark has a very high capacity for testing and variant detection and, hence, is without blindfolds.

    The spread is likely similar in your country."


    https://twitter.com/M_B_Petersen/status/1468237024939360273?s=20
    The spread is almost certainly lower in the UK. Evidence is now in that 3 doses, or 2 + infection gives good immunity and we are a long way ahead of continental Europe on that.
    We're ahead of Denmark in terms of boosters but behind on first and second doses.
    And boosters is what we're talking about. Being 15% ahead on boosters is worth more than being 4% behind on first doses.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    I can't find the source now, but the full detail was 35% should resign, 49% shouldn't, balance don't know. It's not really accurate to say that 65% don't want him to resign - or at least not more accurate than saying 51% don't want him not to resign. But in any case I wasn't thinking of it in terms of whether he should resign (expecting Johnson to follow a course of action as a result of any kind of principle would obviously be a waste of energy) but rather in terms of its likely effect on party vote share. If party share tends towards leader approval, isn't there a risk that this scrubs off a third of the Tory share if he remains as leader?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828
    edited December 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    You think 35% of Tory voters wanting the PM they voted for 2 years ago to resign is a positive?
    HYUFD must be rattled. He didn't include the DNV in 'wanting to stay'.

    Edit: Beg pardon HYUFD, you did!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    131 additional confirmed cases of the #Omicron variant of COVID-19 have been reported across the UK.
    The total number of confirmed COVID-19 Omicron cases in the UK is 568.

    Increasing but not flying out of control, yet.
    The curve flattens daily.
    Yes, this is quite odd. That's a rather low increase.

    Probably just noise.
    Well according to my analysis (Google sheets exponent best fit) we're now on for 350,000 omicron cases by christmas day instead of 777,000. There'll be a tremendous amount of noise in daily figures though.
    Denmark has great surveillance and sequencing. Omicron is doubling every two days there



    "Michael Bang Petersen
    @M_B_Petersen
    ·
    Dec 7
    There is now officially community transmission with omicron in Denmark. ~50 % increase per day for the past few days.

    Remember: Denmark has a very high capacity for testing and variant detection and, hence, is without blindfolds.

    The spread is likely similar in your country."


    https://twitter.com/M_B_Petersen/status/1468237024939360273?s=20
    That's what Dr. Tim Spector (the ZOE app lead) said on Monday. Based upon the assumed number of cases actually being in the 1,000 - 2,000 region on that day, that would put Omicron on a path to make up the majority of extant cases in the UK just before Christmas day.
    Yes, I actually mapped this out a few days ago, on PB. Exponential growth is a doddle to extrapolate

    If pursued to its insane end there would be about 1m cases a day by mid January, IIRC

    But of course, long before then we would have gone into ultra-lockdown, or the virus would have burned out, or Boris would have thrown a toga-party for the entire nation and we'd all have fallen into the sea, drunk
    That doesn't work because adding 1m people per day into the immunity funnel means the virus burns out in weeks. They said the same about Delta, 200-300k cases per day but ultimately vaccine+natural immunity has meant the virus has been running into too many substandard hosts to get there. Omicron will likely have the same issue to get to those kinds of numbers, with or without lockdown.
  • Polruan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    I can't find the source now, but the full detail was 35% should resign, 49% shouldn't, balance don't know. It's not really accurate to say that 65% don't want him to resign - or at least not more accurate than saying 51% don't want him not to resign. But in any case I wasn't thinking of it in terms of whether he should resign (expecting Johnson to follow a course of action as a result of any kind of principle would obviously be a waste of energy) but rather in terms of its likely effect on party vote share. If party share tends towards leader approval, isn't there a risk that this scrubs off a third of the Tory share if he remains as leader?
    There's a few polls out today.

    Over half say Johnson should resign (54%).

    A third of Conservative voters also say this (33%).

    Almost three in five say party attendees should resign (58%). One in five say they should not (22%).


    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1468591910348591112
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I had never even heard of them until just now!
    I don't understand people who can drift through life without knowing or caring how big their ox is.
    As long as no one covets it things should be fine.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1468604366915575808

    "And lo, divers terrors shall await thee! Queues for Starbucks seasonal coffees may exceed 5 minutes. Amazon may not deliver after 5.30pm in the evening. Hospitalisations may reach 1,000 per day. And Waitrose may run short of avocado!
    Thus have the prophets spoken."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Polruan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    I can't find the source now, but the full detail was 35% should resign, 49% shouldn't, balance don't know. It's not really accurate to say that 65% don't want him to resign - or at least not more accurate than saying 51% don't want him not to resign. But in any case I wasn't thinking of it in terms of whether he should resign (expecting Johnson to follow a course of action as a result of any kind of principle would obviously be a waste of energy) but rather in terms of its likely effect on party vote share. If party share tends towards leader approval, isn't there a risk that this scrubs off a third of the Tory share if he remains as leader?
    There's a few polls out today.

    Over half say Johnson should resign (54%).

    A third of Conservative voters also say this (33%).

    Almost three in five say party attendees should resign (58%). One in five say they should not (22%).


    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1468591910348591112
    I'm surprised it's still only a third of Tory voters. Boris resigning would be a net good for the party and the nation that he has debased.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    131 additional confirmed cases of the #Omicron variant of COVID-19 have been reported across the UK.
    The total number of confirmed COVID-19 Omicron cases in the UK is 568.

    Increasing but not flying out of control, yet.
    The curve flattens daily.
    Yes, this is quite odd. That's a rather low increase.

    Probably just noise.
    Well according to my analysis (Google sheets exponent best fit) we're now on for 350,000 omicron cases by christmas day instead of 777,000. There'll be a tremendous amount of noise in daily figures though.
    Denmark has great surveillance and sequencing. Omicron is doubling every two days there



    "Michael Bang Petersen
    @M_B_Petersen
    ·
    Dec 7
    There is now officially community transmission with omicron in Denmark. ~50 % increase per day for the past few days.

    Remember: Denmark has a very high capacity for testing and variant detection and, hence, is without blindfolds.

    The spread is likely similar in your country."


    https://twitter.com/M_B_Petersen/status/1468237024939360273?s=20
    That's what Dr. Tim Spector (the ZOE app lead) said on Monday. Based upon the assumed number of cases actually being in the 1,000 - 2,000 region on that day, that would put Omicron on a path to make up the majority of extant cases in the UK just before Christmas day.
    Yes, I actually mapped this out a few days ago, on PB. Exponential growth is a doddle to extrapolate

    If pursued to its insane end there would be about 1m cases a day by mid January, IIRC

    But of course, long before then we would have gone into ultra-lockdown, or the virus would have burned out, or Boris would have thrown a toga-party for the entire nation and we'd all have fallen into the sea, drunk
    That doesn't work because adding 1m people per day into the immunity funnel means the virus burns out in weeks. They said the same about Delta, 200-300k cases per day but ultimately vaccine+natural immunity has meant the virus has been running into too many substandard hosts to get there. Omicron will likely have the same issue to get to those kinds of numbers, with or without lockdown.
    Er, that's what I said in my comment to which you are replying



    "But of course, long before then.... the virus would have burned out"

    At a certain point extrapolation becomes invalid, as so many countervailing factors come into play. The question is: when?

    Again I take some consolation from the fact this will all be done quite quickly. Omicron seems to be so transmissible the worst of it will be finished by the end of Jan
  • Scottish Tory MSPs are collectively furious about Boris Johnson's comments at PMQs. Source: 'no one backing the PM.'

    Entire Scottish Conservative frontbench now calling for Johnson to resign if he misled Parliament. Real anger at how this story and others undermine the unionist effort in Holyrood.

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1468601628668444672
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    kjh said:

    BREAKING: Less than one in 10 people believe Number 10's claim that no party took place in Downing Street last December during lockdown, an Opinion Poll for Sky News has found.

    Our deputy political editor @SamCoatesSky has the latest.

    Read more here https://trib.al/BBc3TYV


    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1468599782629326855?s=20

    Do they have any details who the other 1 in 10 are?
    The attendees.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828

    Scottish Tory MSPs are collectively furious about Boris Johnson's comments at PMQs. Source: 'no one backing the PM.'

    Entire Scottish Conservative frontbench now calling for Johnson to resign if he misled Parliament. Real anger at how this story and others undermine the unionist effort in Holyrood.

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1468601628668444672

    The solution is obvious. Independence.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2021
    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I had never even heard of them until just now!
    I don't understand people who can drift through life without knowing or caring how big their ox is.
    As long as no one covets it things should be fine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KnXtIodYJg
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Anyway, off to the pub tonight after last night's fancy bar. Looking forward to it.
  • Scottish Tory MSPs are collectively furious about Boris Johnson's comments at PMQs. Source: 'no one backing the PM.'

    Entire Scottish Conservative frontbench now calling for Johnson to resign if he misled Parliament. Real anger at how this story and others undermine the unionist effort in Holyrood.

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1468601628668444672

    The BBC reporting Douglas Ross comments

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1468593631456071680?t=Ppmnj4t2oBiCWj91ccdcWw&s=19
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Will anybody miss the important role she played for the government? I honestly didn't even know she was still working for them.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2021

    Apparently only 9% of the public think there was no Downing Street party. Any PBers think there was no party? Come on, don't be shy!

    'No' party may be overstating it, but it doesn't sound like much of a party if you ask me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
    You poke your finger up the thing's botty. When the reading settles down it should be something like 98-100%. If it starts going down over a period you are in the shite and it is time to get the ambulance, never mind the GP. I'm not sure what the current thinking on the trigger warning level but the chaps at the other end of the phone do like to know what the reading is and can judge it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Anyway, off to the pub tonight after last night's fancy bar. Looking forward to it.

    I think you will have to check your oximeter at the door. With all the oximeters of the others in the pub.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited December 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    So a few staff and possibly civil servants go, to redirect away a bit of flak, and he stays on for a bit. If Cummings has any more video or material up his sleeve, though, he could be gone a lot sooner.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    131 additional confirmed cases of the #Omicron variant of COVID-19 have been reported across the UK.
    The total number of confirmed COVID-19 Omicron cases in the UK is 568.

    Increasing but not flying out of control, yet.
    The curve flattens daily.
    Yes, this is quite odd. That's a rather low increase.

    Probably just noise.
    Well according to my analysis (Google sheets exponent best fit) we're now on for 350,000 omicron cases by christmas day instead of 777,000. There'll be a tremendous amount of noise in daily figures though.
    Denmark has great surveillance and sequencing. Omicron is doubling every two days there



    "Michael Bang Petersen
    @M_B_Petersen
    ·
    Dec 7
    There is now officially community transmission with omicron in Denmark. ~50 % increase per day for the past few days.

    Remember: Denmark has a very high capacity for testing and variant detection and, hence, is without blindfolds.

    The spread is likely similar in your country."


    https://twitter.com/M_B_Petersen/status/1468237024939360273?s=20
    That's what Dr. Tim Spector (the ZOE app lead) said on Monday. Based upon the assumed number of cases actually being in the 1,000 - 2,000 region on that day, that would put Omicron on a path to make up the majority of extant cases in the UK just before Christmas day.
    Yes, I actually mapped this out a few days ago, on PB. Exponential growth is a doddle to extrapolate

    If pursued to its insane end there would be about 1m cases a day by mid January, IIRC

    But of course, long before then we would have gone into ultra-lockdown, or the virus would have burned out, or Boris would have thrown a toga-party for the entire nation and we'd all have fallen into the sea, drunk
    That doesn't work because adding 1m people per day into the immunity funnel means the virus burns out in weeks. They said the same about Delta, 200-300k cases per day but ultimately vaccine+natural immunity has meant the virus has been running into too many substandard hosts to get there. Omicron will likely have the same issue to get to those kinds of numbers, with or without lockdown.
    Er, that's what I said in my comment to which you are replying



    "But of course, long before then.... the virus would have burned out"

    At a certain point extrapolation becomes invalid, as so many countervailing factors come into play. The question is: when?

    Again I take some consolation from the fact this will all be done quite quickly. Omicron seems to be so transmissible the worst of it will be finished by the end of Jan
    If that is true then the majority of South Africans must have Omicron now.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    I always find Dominic Grieve to be an amusing character. He presents himself as the guardian of sanity and good governance; yet he was part of the government that presided over numerous reckless and insane actions, including holding a simple in out referendum on EU membership and not having any plan for an out vote.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited December 2021
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
    This is a silly comment. Oximeters are extremely handy, cheap to buy, simple to use, and easy to interpret. They also give you an accurate pulse rate, which can be informative.


    We've had several PB-ers with Actual Covid who swear by them.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    131 additional confirmed cases of the #Omicron variant of COVID-19 have been reported across the UK.
    The total number of confirmed COVID-19 Omicron cases in the UK is 568.

    Increasing but not flying out of control, yet.
    The curve flattens daily.
    Yes, this is quite odd. That's a rather low increase.

    Probably just noise.
    Well according to my analysis (Google sheets exponent best fit) we're now on for 350,000 omicron cases by christmas day instead of 777,000. There'll be a tremendous amount of noise in daily figures though.
    Denmark has great surveillance and sequencing. Omicron is doubling every two days there



    "Michael Bang Petersen
    @M_B_Petersen
    ·
    Dec 7
    There is now officially community transmission with omicron in Denmark. ~50 % increase per day for the past few days.

    Remember: Denmark has a very high capacity for testing and variant detection and, hence, is without blindfolds.

    The spread is likely similar in your country."


    https://twitter.com/M_B_Petersen/status/1468237024939360273?s=20
    That's what Dr. Tim Spector (the ZOE app lead) said on Monday. Based upon the assumed number of cases actually being in the 1,000 - 2,000 region on that day, that would put Omicron on a path to make up the majority of extant cases in the UK just before Christmas day.
    Yes, I actually mapped this out a few days ago, on PB. Exponential growth is a doddle to extrapolate

    If pursued to its insane end there would be about 1m cases a day by mid January, IIRC

    But of course, long before then we would have gone into ultra-lockdown, or the virus would have burned out, or Boris would have thrown a toga-party for the entire nation and we'd all have fallen into the sea, drunk
    That doesn't work because adding 1m people per day into the immunity funnel means the virus burns out in weeks. They said the same about Delta, 200-300k cases per day but ultimately vaccine+natural immunity has meant the virus has been running into too many substandard hosts to get there. Omicron will likely have the same issue to get to those kinds of numbers, with or without lockdown.
    Er, that's what I said in my comment to which you are replying



    "But of course, long before then.... the virus would have burned out"

    At a certain point extrapolation becomes invalid, as so many countervailing factors come into play. The question is: when?

    Again I take some consolation from the fact this will all be done quite quickly. Omicron seems to be so transmissible the worst of it will be finished by the end of Jan
    True, my fail for not reading, but yeah, the die is cast, COVID isn't going anywhere and we have to get on with life. I think with Omicron it will force a return to normality because lockdown isn't going to make very much difference and ultimately people can't live in a shutdown country. Really the answer is the same as it has ever been, jab early and jab often.

    What's most irritating is that we've got 35-40m Pfizer and Moderna vaccine doses sitting in fridges in the UK, that covers the whole booster programme, the whole second dose programme for kids and potentially first doses for 5-11 year olds. The dithering in July to September was pointed out as being potentially really stupid by loads of us on here and we kept getting told to trust the NHS, trust experts, trust the JCVI, trust SAGE. Yet now all of those are completely discredited, vaccines should have been offered to kids over the summer with two doses, booster shots should have been after 4.5 months and available to everyone from day one of eligibility and we should have started in October with 15m becoming eligible immediately and capacity to do 5-7m doses per week.

    Now with two weeks to go until we get to Xmas the NHS is finding GPs are being the same standard wanker as always begging for more money while the health services falls to bits. It's honestly still shocking how useless GPs are.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    Grieve has a long track record of telling the truth, and has always been described as conscientious in every job he's done, from lawyer, to the Church of England, to Attorney-General. Boris has none of those qualities, and I don't think the two men are comparable, from any point of view.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    I always find Dominic Grieve to be an amusing character. He presents himself as the guardian of sanity and good governance; yet he was part of the government that presided over numerous reckless and insane actions, including holding a simple in out referendum on EU membership and not having any plan for an out vote.
    Not only that, the so-called Attorney General then tried to overturn a democratic vote, by having a 2nd vote without enacting the first. Grotesque. He is no better than the Trumpites who marched on the Capitol to overturn the election


    "Parliament is incapable of settling Brexit. We need a second referendum

    "Dominic Grieve"


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/29/parliament-brexit-second-referendum-eu-deal
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    edited December 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    As usual with these things it is the messenger who gets the punishment. All she was doing was preparing how to answer an impossible question about how others behaved and laughing at the absurdity of the possible answers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    Carnyx said:

    Scottish Tory MSPs are collectively furious about Boris Johnson's comments at PMQs. Source: 'no one backing the PM.'

    Entire Scottish Conservative frontbench now calling for Johnson to resign if he misled Parliament. Real anger at how this story and others undermine the unionist effort in Holyrood.

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1468601628668444672

    The solution is obvious. Independence.
    You are certainly not getting an indyref2 while there remains a UK Tory government, tough
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
    This is a silly comment. Oximeters are extremely handy, cheap to buy, simple to use, and easy to interpret. They also give you an accurate pulse rate, which can be informative.


    We've had several PB-ers with Actual Covid who swear by them.
    And it's so simple too. Anything below about 95% and you want to be getting checked out. It's like a thermometer, just a really basic and essential piece of kit.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Apparently only 9% of the public think there was no Downing Street party. Any PBers think there was no party? Come on, don't be shy!

    'No' party may be overstating it, but it doesn't sound like much of a party if you ask me.
    You will always find me in the kitchen at parties.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Good, that will hopefully begin to draw a line under this story
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scottish Tory MSPs are collectively furious about Boris Johnson's comments at PMQs. Source: 'no one backing the PM.'

    Entire Scottish Conservative frontbench now calling for Johnson to resign if he misled Parliament. Real anger at how this story and others undermine the unionist effort in Holyrood.

    https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1468601628668444672

    The solution is obvious. Independence.
    You are certainly not getting an indyref2 while there remains a UK Tory government, tough
    I was talking about the Scottish Tories regaining their independence from the UK [sic] Conservative Party.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Good, that will hopefully begin to draw a line under this story
    Just to be clear, I have liked as I haven't laughed so hard in quite a while.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    Polruan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    I can't find the source now, but the full detail was 35% should resign, 49% shouldn't, balance don't know. It's not really accurate to say that 65% don't want him to resign - or at least not more accurate than saying 51% don't want him not to resign. But in any case I wasn't thinking of it in terms of whether he should resign (expecting Johnson to follow a course of action as a result of any kind of principle would obviously be a waste of energy) but rather in terms of its likely effect on party vote share. If party share tends towards leader approval, isn't there a risk that this scrubs off a third of the Tory share if he remains as leader?
    Unless Labour gets a 10%+ lead in the polls in the next few polls no, all that will show is a few 2019 Tory voters are temporarily disgruntled with Boris but still prefer Boris to Starmer, which is the key thing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    edited December 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    You just do not get it do you

    At least Douglas Ross and Ruth Davidson speak for most conservatives on this unlike yourself
    Only a third of UK Conservatives want Boris to resign on this afternoon's polls, so I speak for most Conservatives on this actually unlike you or Ross or Davidson who will just have to accept Boris likely stays
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    Grieve has a long track record of telling the truth, and has always been described as conscientious in every job he's done, from lawyer, to the Church of England, to Attorney-General. Boris has none of those qualities, and I don't think the two men are comparable from any point of view.
    Grieve is more like a remain version of Steve Baker. Unwilling to compromise, intentionally disruptive, not very good at the politics of influencing opinion, but completely consistent throughout.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
    This is a silly comment. Oximeters are extremely handy, cheap to buy, simple to use, and easy to interpret. They also give you an accurate pulse rate, which can be informative.


    We've had several PB-ers with Actual Covid who swear by them.
    Yeah, my cousin (an A&E consultant) has recommended them to all of our older family members. It potentially saved a life of another one who got COVID and was suffering from blood clots in her lungs, her blood oxygen levels dropped and her dad (a distant uncle) used the oximeter and it showed a reading in the low 90s so he called an ambulance. She's fine now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    131 additional confirmed cases of the #Omicron variant of COVID-19 have been reported across the UK.
    The total number of confirmed COVID-19 Omicron cases in the UK is 568.

    Increasing but not flying out of control, yet.
    The curve flattens daily.
    Yes, this is quite odd. That's a rather low increase.

    Probably just noise.
    Well according to my analysis (Google sheets exponent best fit) we're now on for 350,000 omicron cases by christmas day instead of 777,000. There'll be a tremendous amount of noise in daily figures though.
    Denmark has great surveillance and sequencing. Omicron is doubling every two days there



    "Michael Bang Petersen
    @M_B_Petersen
    ·
    Dec 7
    There is now officially community transmission with omicron in Denmark. ~50 % increase per day for the past few days.

    Remember: Denmark has a very high capacity for testing and variant detection and, hence, is without blindfolds.

    The spread is likely similar in your country."


    https://twitter.com/M_B_Petersen/status/1468237024939360273?s=20
    That's what Dr. Tim Spector (the ZOE app lead) said on Monday. Based upon the assumed number of cases actually being in the 1,000 - 2,000 region on that day, that would put Omicron on a path to make up the majority of extant cases in the UK just before Christmas day.
    Yes, I actually mapped this out a few days ago, on PB. Exponential growth is a doddle to extrapolate

    If pursued to its insane end there would be about 1m cases a day by mid January, IIRC

    But of course, long before then we would have gone into ultra-lockdown, or the virus would have burned out, or Boris would have thrown a toga-party for the entire nation and we'd all have fallen into the sea, drunk
    That doesn't work because adding 1m people per day into the immunity funnel means the virus burns out in weeks. They said the same about Delta, 200-300k cases per day but ultimately vaccine+natural immunity has meant the virus has been running into too many substandard hosts to get there. Omicron will likely have the same issue to get to those kinds of numbers, with or without lockdown.
    Er, that's what I said in my comment to which you are replying



    "But of course, long before then.... the virus would have burned out"

    At a certain point extrapolation becomes invalid, as so many countervailing factors come into play. The question is: when?

    Again I take some consolation from the fact this will all be done quite quickly. Omicron seems to be so transmissible the worst of it will be finished by the end of Jan
    True, my fail for not reading, but yeah, the die is cast, COVID isn't going anywhere and we have to get on with life. I think with Omicron it will force a return to normality because lockdown isn't going to make very much difference and ultimately people can't live in a shutdown country. Really the answer is the same as it has ever been, jab early and jab often.

    What's most irritating is that we've got 35-40m Pfizer and Moderna vaccine doses sitting in fridges in the UK, that covers the whole booster programme, the whole second dose programme for kids and potentially first doses for 5-11 year olds. The dithering in July to September was pointed out as being potentially really stupid by loads of us on here and we kept getting told to trust the NHS, trust experts, trust the JCVI, trust SAGE. Yet now all of those are completely discredited, vaccines should have been offered to kids over the summer with two doses, booster shots should have been after 4.5 months and available to everyone from day one of eligibility and we should have started in October with 15m becoming eligible immediately and capacity to do 5-7m doses per week.

    Now with two weeks to go until we get to Xmas the NHS is finding GPs are being the same standard wanker as always begging for more money while the health services falls to bits. It's honestly still shocking how useless GPs are.
    The non-vaccination of kids looks especially dim in the light of this troubling evidence (and similar elsewhere)



    "Dr Zoë Hyde
    @DrZoeHyde
    ·
    Dec 5
    The omicron variant is sending more children to hospital in South Africa. Infants, who largely only had a mild course of illness with previous variants are now experiencing moderate to severe symptoms.

    H/T:
    @KatePri35772611
    &
    @NjbBari3"

    https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1467377852274266112?s=20
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    I always find Dominic Grieve to be an amusing character. He presents himself as the guardian of sanity and good governance; yet he was part of the government that presided over numerous reckless and insane actions, including holding a simple in out referendum on EU membership and not having any plan for an out vote.
    Not only that, the so-called Attorney General then tried to overturn a democratic vote, by having a 2nd vote without enacting the first. Grotesque. He is no better than the Trumpites who marched on the Capitol to overturn the election


    "Parliament is incapable of settling Brexit. We need a second referendum

    "Dominic Grieve"


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/29/parliament-brexit-second-referendum-eu-deal
    Absolute nonsense. The Trumpism began with endorsing a no-deal, miles away from what was offered in the referendum, with no parliamentary accountability. He was the main person that made that antidemocratic travesty more difficult.

    But I don't think it's useful to keep on revisiting what is effectively ancient history, now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ALLEGRA STRATTOFF

    I was first, got there first, it's mine now, thanks

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/1468606572729352193
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    What was Allegra thinking? I mean, not just the video, but taking the job in the first place.

    She’s basically destroyed her career.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
    You poke your finger up the thing's botty. When the reading settles down it should be something like 98-100%. If it starts going down over a period you are in the shite and it is time to get the ambulance, never mind the GP. I'm not sure what the current thinking on the trigger warning level but the chaps at the other end of the phone do like to know what the reading is and can judge it.
    The National Early Warning Score ( https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/file/9434/download ) gives some guidance, too. Designed for patients in hospital, but <=91 is cause for urgent review. >=96 is normal.

    (Disclaimer, some of my research from about a decade ago influenced the modifications made from the original NEWS to the current NEWS2, although the RCP didn't really get the modifications right, in my view. Still a score of 3 on SpO2 should be cause for urgent concern. The scale 2 in the new NEWS is for COPD patients, I think, as they very often scored a 3, leading to triggering review, which wans't very useful when normal for them)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Good, that will hopefully begin to draw a line under this story
    Who do you think is more at fault here, Boris or Allegra?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited December 2021
    TOPPING said:

    Anyway, off to the pub tonight after last night's fancy bar. Looking forward to it.

    I think you will have to check your oximeter at the door. With all the oximeters of the others in the pub.
    I had no idea what one even was until about 20 minutes ago!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    I always find Dominic Grieve to be an amusing character. He presents himself as the guardian of sanity and good governance; yet he was part of the government that presided over numerous reckless and insane actions, including holding a simple in out referendum on EU membership and not having any plan for an out vote.
    Not only that, the so-called Attorney General then tried to overturn a democratic vote, by having a 2nd vote without enacting the first. Grotesque. He is no better than the Trumpites who marched on the Capitol to overturn the election


    "Parliament is incapable of settling Brexit. We need a second referendum

    "Dominic Grieve"


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/29/parliament-brexit-second-referendum-eu-deal
    Absolute nonsense. The Trumpism began with endorsing a no-deal with no parliamentary accountability. He was the main person that made that antidemocratic travesty more difficult.
    Grieve tried to cancel democracy. It's pretty fucking simple. If you can't accept that then you are a myopic fool
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Endillion said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Downing Street unable to deny that the man appointed to investigate the party may have attended it.

    He has a rock solid name for the job, Simon Case, neither can be bettered, but it's surely not a good use of time for a (very) senior mandarin. First the stupid wallpaper, now this. Essentially being used by the PM as a kind of lackey-gopher cum glove-puppet cum string-vest. It's like he's back at Eton and Case is his fag. 15 years of top notch schooling, 15 more of blue-chip civil serving, and this is what you end up doing. If he's not angry right now he should be, and I certainly am on his behalf.
    Serves him right for becoming a secretary. Doesn't he know it's a woman's job?
    Actually things are looking up for him. His brief has been expanded to 'investigate' Gavin Williamson's party as well. Sense some 'empire building' going on here.
  • Covid-O meeting on Plan B is complete. Cabinet meeting now taking place.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Good, that will hopefully begin to draw a line under this story
    Who do you think is more at fault here, Boris or Allegra?
    Allegra given she was the one laughing not Boris and there is no evidence Boris was at this party yet either
  • Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Deputy heads will roll.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
    This is a silly comment. Oximeters are extremely handy, cheap to buy, simple to use, and easy to interpret. They also give you an accurate pulse rate, which can be informative.


    We've had several PB-ers with Actual Covid who swear by them.
    And it's so simple too. Anything below about 95% and you want to be getting checked out. It's like a thermometer, just a really basic and essential piece of kit.
    An oximeter is a basic and essential piece of kit? Um 'k.
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Good, that will hopefully begin to draw a line under this story
    Er.....no.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021
    First arrest at anti-vaccine passport protest taking place at Parliament Square in London, just hours before the Prime Minister is expected to announce tighter covid restrictions for the country

    https://twitter.com/senewspics/status/1468595893238734855?s=20

    The Eco-Fascists never get treated this way...They get asked if they would like hemp or oat milk with their tea, while blocking the road for hours.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828
    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
    You poke your finger up the thing's botty. When the reading settles down it should be something like 98-100%. If it starts going down over a period you are in the shite and it is time to get the ambulance, never mind the GP. I'm not sure what the current thinking on the trigger warning level but the chaps at the other end of the phone do like to know what the reading is and can judge it.
    The National Early Warning Score ( https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/file/9434/download ) gives some guidance, too. Designed for patients in hospital, but <=91 is cause for urgent review. >=96 is normal.

    (Disclaimer, some of my research from about a decade ago influenced the modifications made from the original NEWS to the current NEWS2, although the RCP didn't really get the modifications right, in my view. Still a score of 3 on SpO2 should be cause for urgent concern. The scale 2 in the new NEWS is for COPD patients, I think, as they very often scored a 3, leading to triggering review, which wans't very useful when normal for them)
    Many thanks! Noted and put beside the thing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    Grieve has a long track record of telling the truth, and has always been described as conscientious in every job he's done, from lawyer, to the Church of England, to Attorney-General. Boris has none of those qualities, and I don't think the two men are comparable from any point of view.
    Grieve is more like a remain version of Steve Baker. Unwilling to compromise, intentionally disruptive, not very good at the politics of influencing opinion, but completely consistent throughout.
    More of a Remoaner Mark Francois mixed with John Redwood, I'd say

    Charmless like Francois and weirdly stupid like Redwood, despite being "clever"
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Covid-O meeting on Plan B is complete. Cabinet meeting now taking place.

    "Look you wankers, I need to move the media agenda on, so I don't give a fuck if Plan B will wreck what's left of the economy, approve this now or I'll be out of a job tomorrow"

    Is how I expect it went.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just had a look and I can't find my oximeter, which I bought at the start of the pandemic. There are now loads on Amazon, should one be worried about the quality of those, or is the tech even for cheap Chinese knock-offs good enough?

    I wonder how many people have bought oximeters.
    I don't know, but following Dr Foxy suggestion that there were a very sensible thing to purchase such that if you do contract COVID you can monitor the all important blood oxygen level stat.

    TBH, I think it probably would have been sensible for the government to come up with a COVID "prep" kit that they recommend people to have in their cupboard.
    Hmm it probably causes more problems/anxiety than not knowing, frankly.
    I totally disagree. Dr Foxy has explained that the drop in blood oxygen level is a key indicator. Trying to rely on you feeling bad / ok can result in you waiting too long to seek urgent medical treatment and the likes of 111 can't tell you much over the phone. So many people have gone well I was felling ok, then I was in ICU in hours....it is because they won't have realised this as occurred.
    Really. So many people, eh? I'll take your word for it.
    The thing to consider is that there is a very large body of medical evidence that low oxygenation levels are strongly correlated with euphoria, poor decision making etc.

    There is also a very considerable body of evidence that O2 levels are correlated to how a bad case of COVID is.

    In addition, I have verified with several medical professionals that O2 levels are a key number in treating/managing COVID.

    So apart from that.....
    Yeah I have no doubt. But really - buying an oximeter. If you feel ill go to the doctor. If you are second guessing feeling ill at some point in the future how much do you know how blood oxygen works to be able to make such a judgement.
    You poke your finger up the thing's botty. When the reading settles down it should be something like 98-100%. If it starts going down over a period you are in the shite and it is time to get the ambulance, never mind the GP. I'm not sure what the current thinking on the trigger warning level but the chaps at the other end of the phone do like to know what the reading is and can judge it.
    The National Early Warning Score ( https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/file/9434/download ) gives some guidance, too. Designed for patients in hospital, but <=91 is cause for urgent review. >=96 is normal.

    (Disclaimer, some of my research from about a decade ago influenced the modifications made from the original NEWS to the current NEWS2, although the RCP didn't really get the modifications right, in my view. Still a score of 3 on SpO2 should be cause for urgent concern. The scale 2 in the new NEWS is for COPD patients, I think, as they very often scored a 3, leading to triggering review, which wans't very useful when normal for them)
    Many thanks! Noted and put beside the thing.
    Hold on is it 95 cause for concern or 91?
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Good, that will hopefully begin to draw a line under this story
    Laughable.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828
    This thread has a SpO2 below 85%.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    I can't find the source now, but the full detail was 35% should resign, 49% shouldn't, balance don't know. It's not really accurate to say that 65% don't want him to resign - or at least not more accurate than saying 51% don't want him not to resign. But in any case I wasn't thinking of it in terms of whether he should resign (expecting Johnson to follow a course of action as a result of any kind of principle would obviously be a waste of energy) but rather in terms of its likely effect on party vote share. If party share tends towards leader approval, isn't there a risk that this scrubs off a third of the Tory share if he remains as leader?
    Unless Labour gets a 10%+ lead in the polls in the next few polls no, all that will show is a few 2019 Tory voters are temporarily disgruntled with Boris but still prefer Boris to Starmer, which is the key thing
    It'll be interesting to see what happens to opinions on Brexit. Is Boris so bound up with the idea and execution of Brexit that he drags opinion on the whole thing down with him, or is opinion on Brexit completely independent of views on Boris and he was simply a convenient mouthpiece for it?

    Recent polling might tend to support the former - that he is tarring the image of Brexit in the public eye - but that may just be to do with general perceptions of how it's going (border admin, fishing tussles with France, all the article 16 noise). We'd be able to tell one way or the other if the Yougov tracker poll suddenly ticks up if Boris is replaced as leader.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    MaxPB said:

    Covid-O meeting on Plan B is complete. Cabinet meeting now taking place.

    "Look you wankers, I need to move the media agenda on, so I don't give a fuck if Plan B will wreck what's left of the economy, approve this now or I'll be out of a job tomorrow"

    Is how I expect it went.
    Sadly given the totally imbalanced make up of these committees, I suspect he was the only person in the room with a remit to care about the economy, so once he has a venal reason for restrictions his friends from health and social care will happily row in behind.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    I always find Dominic Grieve to be an amusing character. He presents himself as the guardian of sanity and good governance; yet he was part of the government that presided over numerous reckless and insane actions, including holding a simple in out referendum on EU membership and not having any plan for an out vote.
    Not only that, the so-called Attorney General then tried to overturn a democratic vote, by having a 2nd vote without enacting the first. Grotesque. He is no better than the Trumpites who marched on the Capitol to overturn the election


    "Parliament is incapable of settling Brexit. We need a second referendum

    "Dominic Grieve"


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/29/parliament-brexit-second-referendum-eu-deal
    Absolute nonsense. The Trumpism began with endorsing a no-deal with no parliamentary accountability. He was the main person that made that antidemocratic travesty more difficult.
    Grieve tried to cancel democracy. It's pretty fucking simple. If you can't accept that then you are a myopic fool
    Why was the 2017 parliament bound by the actions of the 2015 one?
  • Joy.

    Fans attending sports events including Premier League matches this weekend are expected to be required to have vaccine passports or proof of a negative test as part of new government rules to tackle the Covid pandemic.

    The Premier League was in talks with Whitehall officials on Wednesday seeking clarification on the requirements of complying with the government’s plan B, due to be announced to deal with the spread of the Omicron variant.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/premier-league-grounds-set-for-vaccine-passports-under-covid-plan-b-mrwcf6kkw
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    edited December 2021
    Taz said:

    Apparently only 9% of the public think there was no Downing Street party. Any PBers think there was no party? Come on, don't be shy!

    'No' party may be overstating it, but it doesn't sound like much of a party if you ask me.
    You will always find me in the kitchen at parties.
    That's where you find the fridge, after all.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ping said:

    What was Allegra thinking? I mean, not just the video, but taking the job in the first place.

    She’s basically destroyed her career.

    Why? Her husband edits the Spectator, her best mate is CotE and she is the toast of everyone who thinks Boris Johnson is a FLSOJ.

    Ed Oldfield lacks those advantages, started the conv, and is the one really in the shit
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005

    Hospital admissions from the Omicron variant may reach at least 1,000 a day in England by the end of the year without extra restrictions being put in place, government advisers have said.

    The numbers are contained in leaked minutes of a meeting of the government's scientific advisers held on Tuesday and seen by the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59581234

    It is getting a bit stupid now, SAGE just leaks every meeting these days.

    This is a ridiculous scaremongering headline. Admissions have been 700 to 800 per day for months. They are talking about a 25% increase but nowhere near the levels we saw in the first two waves. That wouldn't make such a good headline though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Joy.

    Fans attending sports events including Premier League matches this weekend are expected to be required to have vaccine passports or proof of a negative test as part of new government rules to tackle the Covid pandemic.

    The Premier League was in talks with Whitehall officials on Wednesday seeking clarification on the requirements of complying with the government’s plan B, due to be announced to deal with the spread of the Omicron variant.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/premier-league-grounds-set-for-vaccine-passports-under-covid-plan-b-mrwcf6kkw

    Glad I went to see Spurs on Sunday, I expect getting into the stadium will now take 2-3h of queuing and checking vaccine status with arguments and fights breaking out.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    You just do not get it do you

    At least Douglas Ross and Ruth Davidson speak for most conservatives on this unlike yourself
    Only a third of UK Conservatives want Boris to resign on this afternoon's polls, so I speak for most Conservatives on this actually unlike you or Ross or Davidson who will just have to accept Boris likely stays
    i think they need to announce the succession of Antrim now to really kill this story.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Compounding the trouble Boris is in, the LDs are now odds on for NS. Is there a chance that voters, unlike politics geeks, won't know that the assumption is to vote LD, even though Labour came second, and the Tories will scrape home by splitting the centre left vote?

    If the Tories don't lose NS it may give Boris a safety belt for a time, but not, I suspect for long. This is Barnard Castle mark 2, and worse - fewer excuses - and compounds the 'entitlement' story. The difficulty being that that story looks awfully like it's true. They really are like that and can't help it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”

    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    Not many laughing any more. Only the real hardcore fans sticking with this latest work.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,828

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    You just do not get it do you

    At least Douglas Ross and Ruth Davidson speak for most conservatives on this unlike yourself
    Only a third of UK Conservatives want Boris to resign on this afternoon's polls, so I speak for most Conservatives on this actually unlike you or Ross or Davidson who will just have to accept Boris likely stays
    i think they need to announce the succession of Antrim now to really kill this story.
    Wouldn't make any difference. Too many people down south couldn't give a monkey's, or would be mildly pleased.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Good, that will hopefully begin to draw a line under this story
    Laughable.
    I recall Trump making a comment once that “he could literally shoot someone in public in the street and they’d still vote for him”

    Evidently HYFUD falls into that type of voter
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    algarkirk said:

    Compounding the trouble Boris is in, the LDs are now odds on for NS. Is there a chance that voters, unlike politics geeks, won't know that the assumption is to vote LD, even though Labour came second, and the Tories will scrape home by splitting the centre left vote?

    If the Tories don't lose NS it may give Boris a safety belt for a time, but not, I suspect for long. This is Barnard Castle mark 2, and worse - fewer excuses - and compounds the 'entitlement' story. The difficulty being that that story looks awfully like it's true. They really are like that and can't help it.

    I haven't been to a by election for quite sometime, but I imagine the voters will be pleading with the LDs to stop putting leaflets through the door. I think the voters will know who the challenger is.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    You just do not get it do you

    At least Douglas Ross and Ruth Davidson speak for most conservatives on this unlike yourself
    Only a third of UK Conservatives want Boris to resign on this afternoon's polls, so I speak for most Conservatives on this actually unlike you or Ross or Davidson who will just have to accept Boris likely stays
    i think they need to announce the succession of Antrim now to really kill this story.
    Wouldn't make any difference. Too many people down south couldn't give a monkey's, or would be mildly pleased.
    What, pray, is ' the succession of Antrim'?
  • maaarsh said:

    Hospital admissions from the Omicron variant may reach at least 1,000 a day in England by the end of the year without extra restrictions being put in place, government advisers have said.

    The numbers are contained in leaked minutes of a meeting of the government's scientific advisers held on Tuesday and seen by the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59581234

    It is getting a bit stupid now, SAGE just leaks every meeting these days.

    'may' reach 'at least' 1000 a day?

    Which is it?
    I reckon easily over almost a thousand.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Dominic Grieve: “I have no idea what to believe, because the PM has shown himself consistently to be a consummate liar.”

    But thinks crown property may have been exempt from the regulations, as [thin] justification for the last week’s denials.

    “This is a Prime Minister who is a serial liar..who will say anything that comes into his head at any moment to get himself off the hook”

    “The PM is clearly not fit for office…the question is how long Conservative MPs will continue to put up with this.”





    It must pain people like Grieve in the dark of the night to know that Boris Johnson’s premiership was directly precipitated by his anti democracy bandwagon over the referendum.

    Still, BoJo has served his purpose. He pensioned off Corbyn and then delivered the exit from the EU. Time he’s moved on but he wouldn’t have been needed at all without Grieve.
    Grieve is a repulsive character. And entirely unself-aware. Does he not possess a mirror?

    If he did he might be surprised to see a malformed version of Boris staring back at him, a narcissist unable to comprehend his own flaws and terrible errors. And at least Boris is funny
    I always find Dominic Grieve to be an amusing character. He presents himself as the guardian of sanity and good governance; yet he was part of the government that presided over numerous reckless and insane actions, including holding a simple in out referendum on EU membership and not having any plan for an out vote.
    Not only that, the so-called Attorney General then tried to overturn a democratic vote, by having a 2nd vote without enacting the first. Grotesque. He is no better than the Trumpites who marched on the Capitol to overturn the election


    "Parliament is incapable of settling Brexit. We need a second referendum

    "Dominic Grieve"


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/29/parliament-brexit-second-referendum-eu-deal
    Absolute nonsense. The Trumpism began with endorsing a no-deal with no parliamentary accountability. He was the main person that made that antidemocratic travesty more difficult.
    Grieve tried to cancel democracy. It's pretty fucking simple. If you can't accept that then you are a myopic fool
    Exactly the opposite is true, and your usual resort to abuse in extremis is never of any help in that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    .
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING:

    Allegra Stratton has quit as an adviser to the PM saying leaked video has become a distraction

    She offers her 'profound apologies' for her remarks

    'My remarks seemed to make light of rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. That was never my intention'

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1468606233162797060

    Good, that will hopefully begin to draw a line under this story
    Who do you think is more at fault here, Boris or Allegra?
    Allegra given she was the one laughing not Boris and there is no evidence Boris was at this party yet either
    The sight of you defending the honesty and integrity of our PM is providing splendid amusement this afternoon.

    The woman on R5 who phoned in to say she'd joined the party because of Boris, and had just resigned her membership as it was obvious he was "lying through his teeth", is probably a shade more representative of the public mood.
  • BREAKING: The number of covid positive hospital patients in England is back on the way up.

    4% higher than a week ago

    Had fallen/stayed the same for 33 previous days

    NE & Yorks still falling. NW + East steady. Four other regions up (6-10%)


    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1468613357381070854?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Polruan said:

    Today's Opinium snap poll suggesting that 35% of 2019 Tory voters think Johnson should resign and only 49% think he shouldn't resign seems.... quite bad? I'm not sure how to contextualise this and don't think it's part of a regular sequence, but fewer than half of your voters at the last election being enthusiastic supporters of you carrying on in the job doesn't sound great. Can anyone put it into better (more informed) context?

    So 65% of 2019 Tory voters do not want Boris to resign, that is key, he retains the support of most of his voters.

    Unless Labour start to build a big poll lead and an alternative leader polls better v Starmer than Boris does or Boris is proved to have attended this party, Boris stays
    I can't find the source now, but the full detail was 35% should resign, 49% shouldn't, balance don't know. It's not really accurate to say that 65% don't want him to resign - or at least not more accurate than saying 51% don't want him not to resign. But in any case I wasn't thinking of it in terms of whether he should resign (expecting Johnson to follow a course of action as a result of any kind of principle would obviously be a waste of energy) but rather in terms of its likely effect on party vote share. If party share tends towards leader approval, isn't there a risk that this scrubs off a third of the Tory share if he remains as leader?
    Unless Labour gets a 10%+ lead in the polls in the next few polls no, all that will show is a few 2019 Tory voters are temporarily disgruntled with Boris but still prefer Boris to Starmer, which is the key thing
    It'll be interesting to see what happens to opinions on Brexit. Is Boris so bound up with the idea and execution of Brexit that he drags opinion on the whole thing down with him, or is opinion on Brexit completely independent of views on Boris and he was simply a convenient mouthpiece for it?

    Recent polling might tend to support the former - that he is tarring the image of Brexit in the public eye - but that may just be to do with general perceptions of how it's going (border admin, fishing tussles with France, all the article 16 noise). We'd be able to tell one way or the other if the Yougov tracker poll suddenly ticks up if Boris is replaced as leader.
    Logically his troubles shouldn't tarnish Brexit because he never believed in Brexit. But the sort of people who voted for Brexit mainly because Boris Johnson told them to wouldn't realize this. So, yes, I can see that him being exposed to them as a clueless clown might give them cause for doubt about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    BREAKING: The number of covid positive hospital patients in England is back on the way up.

    4% higher than a week ago

    Had fallen/stayed the same for 33 previous days

    NE & Yorks still falling. NW + East steady. Four other regions up (6-10%)


    https://twitter.com/HSJEditor/status/1468613357381070854?s=20

    Someone hasn't been looking at the data - this was becoming obvious a week ago.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK Local R

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK case summary

    image
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    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK Hospitals

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    UK Deaths

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Age related

    image
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    image

    image
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    COVID Summary

    1) Cases up. Case growth up to the 50s group now.
    2) Admissions up.
    3) Deaths down
  • IanB2 said:

    Have watched PMQ now.

    First thing leaping out at me - wow! Angela Rayners got her Party Hair on, that looked so tbh I don’t know how to describe it but it certainly proper stand up stand out moment. I have to be fair about this because I only have a few face on blown up pictures of it, but no, I don’t like it. I’ve deleted the line where I scream Mars Attacks! It’s almost two ideas in one, something for the office in the front, something of the night rising up behind. And still that fringe! I love bangs I do, but she had to try something different with that new look, maybe curtains. Or just rethink what she was doing and go for a plan B. Love to have her round my flat and give her a lob like mine.

    Probably lots of insight and wisdom in there (not that I understood a word of it) but I suspect, sadly, a rather ignorant audience on PB, which is probably largely outside the traditional demographic for styling tips.
    Wayward hair being the least of many PB’ers worries.
    On top of the head, sadly yes?

    Elsewhere, hell no!
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,040
    I have spent another 2 days in North Shropshire. There are some changes from the last time I was there. There are now road diversions al over the constituency and they seem to be the major subject of local chat. There are now some signs of the election - but I reckon that 80% of the poster sites are Lib Dem. with 20% Conservative - nothing for the rest. Many of the Lib Dem sites are in field edges - signs that the farmers are not happy. I was told that Boris Johnson had to be escorted away by his security detail when he was booed during a visit earlier. Given the weather there are going to be major problems with turnout. Victory will go the those who have the best GOTV.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited December 2021
    This quote from the nightclubs body just now is exactly why he's got to go. Quite simply, it's going to be open season now for everyone to challenge every governmental information on covid, at every step.

    "You do, therefore, have to question the timing and rationale for this announcement. Is this sound evidence-based public policy making or is this an attempt to move the news agenda on from a damaging story about the Downing St Christmas party?


This discussion has been closed.