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How the most ill-tempered PMQs in years is being reported – politicalbetting.com

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  • Roger said:

    Just seen Angela Raynor on Ch4 News. I'd never rated her before but in fact she was very good. It could just be the contrast between someone transparently sincere versus a Prime Minister who clearly isn't but I think it's more than that. I actually believe she really did think Johnson was 'scum' and felt it needed sayiing

    does her mouth still hang open at the end of each sentence or have the expensive etiquette lessons started to pay off?

    asking for a friend.
  • RobD said:

    More economic illiteracy from Channel 4 this time "in October the cost of living jumped to its highest level in nearly a decade". Er no, just to its highest level since last month, as it almost always does.

    Wasn't it a journalist from Channel 4 who was surprised to learn of the existence of the ONS in the early days of Covid?
    It was one on the BBC at lunchtime who said that prices jumped by 4.2% in October.
  • He's lost Isabel...


    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    2h
    -Multi million pound contracts for mates
    -Illegal migrants pouring across the Channel
    -Suicide bomber was failed asylum seeker
    -Taxes at record high
    -NHS can't cope
    The Tories have had 10 years in power! Every day, the state this country is in takes my breath away.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    He's lost Isabel...


    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    2h
    -Multi million pound contracts for mates
    -Illegal migrants pouring across the Channel
    -Suicide bomber was failed asylum seeker
    -Taxes at record high
    -NHS can't cope
    The Tories have had 10 years in power! Every day, the state this country is in takes my breath away.

    Without the support of the stupid, he is lost indeed.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Roger said:

    Just seen Angela Raynor on Ch4 News. I'd never rated her before but in fact she was very good. It could just be the contrast between someone transparently sincere versus a Prime Minister who clearly isn't but I think it's more than that. I actually believe she really did think Johnson was 'scum' and felt it needed sayiing

    And to think it was only a couple of weeks ago when people from all sides were saying these kind of phrases should be avoided in politics.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,371
    edited November 2021

    He's lost Isabel...


    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    2h
    -Multi million pound contracts for mates
    -Illegal migrants pouring across the Channel
    -Suicide bomber was failed asylum seeker
    -Taxes at record high
    -NHS can't cope
    The Tories have had 10 years in power! Every day, the state this country is in takes my breath away.

    I'm glad Starmer had to withdraw that wicked slur though.

    To suggest Boris Johnson is a coward is to unfairly impugn the bravery of cowards.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Roger said:

    Just seen Angela Raynor on Ch4 News. I'd never rated her before but in fact she was very good. It could just be the contrast between someone transparently sincere versus a Prime Minister who clearly isn't but I think it's more than that. I actually believe she really did think Johnson was 'scum' and felt it needed sayiing

    Massively improving. The 'scum' thing was daft of course.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    IshmaelZ said:




    Cyclefree said:

    AlistairM said:

    Julia Hartley-Brewer
    @JuliaHB1
    ·
    49m
    BREAKING: The end of elite women's sport has just been announced.

    Transgender athletes should not have to lower testosterone to compete, IOC says as it changes guidelines

    So there's the trade off:

    Keep your tackle and make it to the Olympic semi-final.

    Get it chopped off and win a medal.
    The International Athletics Federation still have their own testosterone rule that was stricter than the one dropped by the IOC, but I think the IOC are saying you'd need copious formal evidence to exclude even pre-op transgender athletes.

    So in your scenario they might not even need to sacrifice the dangly bits.
    It has been obvious that as soon as you let transgender male->female athletes compete against naturally born females that it would finish women's sport. They just will not be able to compete. It is a disgrace. There were 3 options and they have picked the worst. May as well just be done with it and no longer have any male/female categories.

    The other two options in my view are:
    1. No competition for transgender athletes (needs of the many outweighing needs of the few)
    2. Creating new categories.
    A female sportswoman who doped herself to have the amount of testosterone a transwoman sportsperson is permitted would be banned. But a trans athlete - a male claiming to be a woman - with that amount of testosterone in his body as a result of male puberty can legally compete. How can this possibly be fair? And isn't this discrimination against women?

    It is a disgrace. Just as allowing men claiming to be women and convicted of sexual offences against women to be housed in womens' prisons is a disgrace. There was an interesting debate on this in the House of Lords yesterday where Ms Chakrabarti once again showed what an incoherent moron she is.

    As I posted a few weeks ago, my goto question about the rights of trans wrt prison and other spaces is simple:

    "What is to stop Wayne Couzens (convicted sex murderer) from claiming to self-identify as a woman and asking to be moved to a women's prison?"
    Back in the real world, Wayne Cousins did not need to claim to self-identify as a woman in order to kidnap, rape and murder Sarah Everard.
    So what? A truly baffling non point.
    On this question: Why not start a petition on the Parliament website asking for laws to prevent Wayne Couzens from ever serving time in a womens jail. If the required number of signatures are achieved, the government will be forced to reconcile its position on trans rights with that of womens safety in the debate that follows.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,371
    edited November 2021
    darkage said:

    IshmaelZ said:




    Cyclefree said:

    AlistairM said:

    Julia Hartley-Brewer
    @JuliaHB1
    ·
    49m
    BREAKING: The end of elite women's sport has just been announced.

    Transgender athletes should not have to lower testosterone to compete, IOC says as it changes guidelines

    So there's the trade off:

    Keep your tackle and make it to the Olympic semi-final.

    Get it chopped off and win a medal.
    The International Athletics Federation still have their own testosterone rule that was stricter than the one dropped by the IOC, but I think the IOC are saying you'd need copious formal evidence to exclude even pre-op transgender athletes.

    So in your scenario they might not even need to sacrifice the dangly bits.
    It has been obvious that as soon as you let transgender male->female athletes compete against naturally born females that it would finish women's sport. They just will not be able to compete. It is a disgrace. There were 3 options and they have picked the worst. May as well just be done with it and no longer have any male/female categories.

    The other two options in my view are:
    1. No competition for transgender athletes (needs of the many outweighing needs of the few)
    2. Creating new categories.
    A female sportswoman who doped herself to have the amount of testosterone a transwoman sportsperson is permitted would be banned. But a trans athlete - a male claiming to be a woman - with that amount of testosterone in his body as a result of male puberty can legally compete. How can this possibly be fair? And isn't this discrimination against women?

    It is a disgrace. Just as allowing men claiming to be women and convicted of sexual offences against women to be housed in womens' prisons is a disgrace. There was an interesting debate on this in the House of Lords yesterday where Ms Chakrabarti once again showed what an incoherent moron she is.

    As I posted a few weeks ago, my goto question about the rights of trans wrt prison and other spaces is simple:

    "What is to stop Wayne Couzens (convicted sex murderer) from claiming to self-identify as a woman and asking to be moved to a women's prison?"
    Back in the real world, Wayne Cousins did not need to claim to self-identify as a woman in order to kidnap, rape and murder Sarah Everard.
    So what? A truly baffling non point.
    On this question: Why not start a petition on the Parliament website asking for laws to prevent Wayne Couzens from ever serving time in a womens jail. If the required number of signatures are achieved, the government will be forced to reconcile its position on trans rights with that of womens safety in the debate that follows.
    I thought the UK government didn't allow men who hadn't medically transitioned to be put in a women's prison?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Omnium said:

    Roger said:

    Just seen Angela Raynor on Ch4 News. I'd never rated her before but in fact she was very good. It could just be the contrast between someone transparently sincere versus a Prime Minister who clearly isn't but I think it's more than that. I actually believe she really did think Johnson was 'scum' and felt it needed sayiing

    Massively improving. The 'scum' thing was daft of course.
    She looks very sexy in a mask. Brings out her eyes
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,371
    IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    Roger said:

    Just seen Angela Raynor on Ch4 News. I'd never rated her before but in fact she was very good. It could just be the contrast between someone transparently sincere versus a Prime Minister who clearly isn't but I think it's more than that. I actually believe she really did think Johnson was 'scum' and felt it needed sayiing

    Massively improving. The 'scum' thing was daft of course.
    She looks very sexy in a mask. Brings out her eyes
    I didn't realise what you meant, and for a moment I was speculating on the circumstances where you persuaded her to mask up...
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited November 2021

    He's lost Isabel...


    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    2h
    -Multi million pound contracts for mates
    -Illegal migrants pouring across the Channel
    -Suicide bomber was failed asylum seeker
    -Taxes at record high
    -NHS can't cope
    The Tories have had 10 years in power! Every day, the state this country is in takes my breath away.

    It could be too late for Johnson, even if Verity acts as expected and the Dacre mini-me, and pushes the corruption stories down to page 27, while Dacre is rewarded by being parachuted into Ofcom, with the ultimate prize of turning GB News and others into Fox.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Roger said:

    Just seen Angela Raynor on Ch4 News. I'd never rated her before but in fact she was very good. It could just be the contrast between someone transparently sincere versus a Prime Minister who clearly isn't but I think it's more than that. I actually believe she really did think Johnson was 'scum' and felt it needed sayiing

    You still can’t spell her name though!
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    Roger said:

    Just seen Angela Raynor on Ch4 News. I'd never rated her before but in fact she was very good. It could just be the contrast between someone transparently sincere versus a Prime Minister who clearly isn't but I think it's more than that. I actually believe she really did think Johnson was 'scum' and felt it needed sayiing

    Massively improving. The 'scum' thing was daft of course.
    She looks very sexy in a mask. Brings out her eyes
    LOL. Actual LOL.
  • NEW THREAD
  • NEW THREAD

    Where?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Starmer is on interesting ground accusing Boris of cowardice. He's (Starmer) clearly very uncomfortable in the spotlight. Not so brave really.

    I rather suspect that I'm a coward. I think I might choose to run away. However when actually faced by peril I've rather marched into the fray historically.

    A hard thing to judge or understand.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    ydoethur said:

    darkage said:

    IshmaelZ said:




    Cyclefree said:

    AlistairM said:

    Julia Hartley-Brewer
    @JuliaHB1
    ·
    49m
    BREAKING: The end of elite women's sport has just been announced.

    Transgender athletes should not have to lower testosterone to compete, IOC says as it changes guidelines

    So there's the trade off:

    Keep your tackle and make it to the Olympic semi-final.

    Get it chopped off and win a medal.
    The International Athletics Federation still have their own testosterone rule that was stricter than the one dropped by the IOC, but I think the IOC are saying you'd need copious formal evidence to exclude even pre-op transgender athletes.

    So in your scenario they might not even need to sacrifice the dangly bits.
    It has been obvious that as soon as you let transgender male->female athletes compete against naturally born females that it would finish women's sport. They just will not be able to compete. It is a disgrace. There were 3 options and they have picked the worst. May as well just be done with it and no longer have any male/female categories.

    The other two options in my view are:
    1. No competition for transgender athletes (needs of the many outweighing needs of the few)
    2. Creating new categories.
    A female sportswoman who doped herself to have the amount of testosterone a transwoman sportsperson is permitted would be banned. But a trans athlete - a male claiming to be a woman - with that amount of testosterone in his body as a result of male puberty can legally compete. How can this possibly be fair? And isn't this discrimination against women?

    It is a disgrace. Just as allowing men claiming to be women and convicted of sexual offences against women to be housed in womens' prisons is a disgrace. There was an interesting debate on this in the House of Lords yesterday where Ms Chakrabarti once again showed what an incoherent moron she is.

    As I posted a few weeks ago, my goto question about the rights of trans wrt prison and other spaces is simple:

    "What is to stop Wayne Couzens (convicted sex murderer) from claiming to self-identify as a woman and asking to be moved to a women's prison?"
    Back in the real world, Wayne Cousins did not need to claim to self-identify as a woman in order to kidnap, rape and murder Sarah Everard.
    So what? A truly baffling non point.
    On this question: Why not start a petition on the Parliament website asking for laws to prevent Wayne Couzens from ever serving time in a womens jail. If the required number of signatures are achieved, the government will be forced to reconcile its position on trans rights with that of womens safety in the debate that follows.
    I thought the UK government didn't allow men who hadn't medically transitioned to be put in a women's prison?
    I just did some research and I don't think you are correct on this.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57692993
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    darkage said:

    IshmaelZ said:




    Cyclefree said:

    AlistairM said:

    Julia Hartley-Brewer
    @JuliaHB1
    ·
    49m
    BREAKING: The end of elite women's sport has just been announced.

    Transgender athletes should not have to lower testosterone to compete, IOC says as it changes guidelines

    So there's the trade off:

    Keep your tackle and make it to the Olympic semi-final.

    Get it chopped off and win a medal.
    The International Athletics Federation still have their own testosterone rule that was stricter than the one dropped by the IOC, but I think the IOC are saying you'd need copious formal evidence to exclude even pre-op transgender athletes.

    So in your scenario they might not even need to sacrifice the dangly bits.
    It has been obvious that as soon as you let transgender male->female athletes compete against naturally born females that it would finish women's sport. They just will not be able to compete. It is a disgrace. There were 3 options and they have picked the worst. May as well just be done with it and no longer have any male/female categories.

    The other two options in my view are:
    1. No competition for transgender athletes (needs of the many outweighing needs of the few)
    2. Creating new categories.
    A female sportswoman who doped herself to have the amount of testosterone a transwoman sportsperson is permitted would be banned. But a trans athlete - a male claiming to be a woman - with that amount of testosterone in his body as a result of male puberty can legally compete. How can this possibly be fair? And isn't this discrimination against women?

    It is a disgrace. Just as allowing men claiming to be women and convicted of sexual offences against women to be housed in womens' prisons is a disgrace. There was an interesting debate on this in the House of Lords yesterday where Ms Chakrabarti once again showed what an incoherent moron she is.

    As I posted a few weeks ago, my goto question about the rights of trans wrt prison and other spaces is simple:

    "What is to stop Wayne Couzens (convicted sex murderer) from claiming to self-identify as a woman and asking to be moved to a women's prison?"
    Back in the real world, Wayne Cousins did not need to claim to self-identify as a woman in order to kidnap, rape and murder Sarah Everard.
    So what? A truly baffling non point.
    On this question: Why not start a petition on the Parliament website asking for laws to prevent Wayne Couzens from ever serving time in a womens jail. If the required number of signatures are achieved, the government will be forced to reconcile its position on trans rights with that of womens safety in the debate that follows.
    This site gets more surreal by the minute.

    Off to ConHome for some old fashioned wokery.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,907
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    It is very nice to see hardened PB Tories finally concede how very shit Boris is.

    There is more joy in heaven etc…

    Um, which ones?

    HYUFD is pretty much the only PB tory still standing, and I don't think we have heard from him today. Who, specifically, has altered their position?
    As I posted earlier Boris is still the best Tory leader to hold the Redwall and without the Redwall then there is no Tory majority as many of the Remain areas Cameron won in 2015 are solid Labour or LD post Brexit
    Thing is, we don’t know if Boris really is the best Tory leader to hold the Red Wall as any potential replacements haven’t been tested. Polling at present might say he is but then we don’t know if, for example, Truss or Rishi once PM and truly in the spotlight and leading things might suddenly strike a chord with the red wall that’s better, or of course worse.

    So the risk is that the Tories keep Boris in place to win something because they are too scared or don’t have the confidence that someone else could do better or worse. They are buggered if they really believe Boris is the only person who can win over the red wall as he will go one day……

    And there might be someone who ends up appealing to the red wall but also being more popular in Scotland (yes ok a low base) and the Home Counties.

    So gripping hold of Boris because of the red wall belief could ultimately screw them more in the end surely.
    Truss polled even worse than Boris in the last Mori with the public so better stick with Boris than her.

    Sunak polled a bit better but while he might do a bit better than Boris in London and the South I don't think he would do as well there as Cameron did in 2015 and I also think he would not do as well as Boris in the Redwall either
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,901
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    It is very nice to see hardened PB Tories finally concede how very shit Boris is.

    There is more joy in heaven etc…

    Um, which ones?

    HYUFD is pretty much the only PB tory still standing, and I don't think we have heard from him today. Who, specifically, has altered their position?
    As I posted earlier Boris is still the best Tory leader to hold the Redwall and without the Redwall then there is no Tory majority as many of the Remain areas Cameron won in 2015 are solid Labour or LD post Brexit
    A fine post. For all the criticism you get at least your arguments are straightforward and coherent. A welcome relief from the convoluted drivel we get from the likes of Robert Thompson who try to convince that black is white or others who are quite simply in love with the blond bombshell but are too embarrassed to admit it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,371
    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    darkage said:

    IshmaelZ said:




    Cyclefree said:

    AlistairM said:

    Julia Hartley-Brewer
    @JuliaHB1
    ·
    49m
    BREAKING: The end of elite women's sport has just been announced.

    Transgender athletes should not have to lower testosterone to compete, IOC says as it changes guidelines

    So there's the trade off:

    Keep your tackle and make it to the Olympic semi-final.

    Get it chopped off and win a medal.
    The International Athletics Federation still have their own testosterone rule that was stricter than the one dropped by the IOC, but I think the IOC are saying you'd need copious formal evidence to exclude even pre-op transgender athletes.

    So in your scenario they might not even need to sacrifice the dangly bits.
    It has been obvious that as soon as you let transgender male->female athletes compete against naturally born females that it would finish women's sport. They just will not be able to compete. It is a disgrace. There were 3 options and they have picked the worst. May as well just be done with it and no longer have any male/female categories.

    The other two options in my view are:
    1. No competition for transgender athletes (needs of the many outweighing needs of the few)
    2. Creating new categories.
    A female sportswoman who doped herself to have the amount of testosterone a transwoman sportsperson is permitted would be banned. But a trans athlete - a male claiming to be a woman - with that amount of testosterone in his body as a result of male puberty can legally compete. How can this possibly be fair? And isn't this discrimination against women?

    It is a disgrace. Just as allowing men claiming to be women and convicted of sexual offences against women to be housed in womens' prisons is a disgrace. There was an interesting debate on this in the House of Lords yesterday where Ms Chakrabarti once again showed what an incoherent moron she is.

    As I posted a few weeks ago, my goto question about the rights of trans wrt prison and other spaces is simple:

    "What is to stop Wayne Couzens (convicted sex murderer) from claiming to self-identify as a woman and asking to be moved to a women's prison?"
    Back in the real world, Wayne Cousins did not need to claim to self-identify as a woman in order to kidnap, rape and murder Sarah Everard.
    So what? A truly baffling non point.
    On this question: Why not start a petition on the Parliament website asking for laws to prevent Wayne Couzens from ever serving time in a womens jail. If the required number of signatures are achieved, the government will be forced to reconcile its position on trans rights with that of womens safety in the debate that follows.
    I thought the UK government didn't allow men who hadn't medically transitioned to be put in a women's prison?
    I just did some research and I don't think you are correct on this.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57692993
    Hmmm. I was unaware of this. Stupid policy, bluntly. The obvious solution is to have separate wings in prisons for transgender prisoners, which gets round both issues.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Omnium said:

    Starmer is on interesting ground accusing Boris of cowardice. He's (Starmer) clearly very uncomfortable in the spotlight. Not so brave really.

    I rather suspect that I'm a coward. I think I might choose to run away. However when actually faced by peril I've rather marched into the fray historically.

    A hard thing to judge or understand.

    I’m sure I’m a coward.

    On the rare occasions I am accused of bravery it is usually just ignorance or bloody-mindedness on my part rather than anything noble.
  • RobD said:

    More economic illiteracy from Channel 4 this time "in October the cost of living jumped to its highest level in nearly a decade". Er no, just to its highest level since last month, as it almost always does.

    Wasn't it a journalist from Channel 4 who was surprised to learn of the existence of the ONS in the early days of Covid?
    It was one on the BBC at lunchtime who said that prices jumped by 4.2% in October.
    I heard Nuala McGovern earlier on Radio 5 talking about the effect on families of healthcare workers "when they come home having given 110, or maybe 120 percent"

    I was left disappointed that they've been giving so much less than infinity percent.
This discussion has been closed.