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How the most ill-tempered PMQs in years is being reported – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 17 in General
How the most ill-tempered PMQs in years is being reported – politicalbetting.com

This has been an ugly session of PMQs. Arguing with the Speaker is rarely a good look for a Prime Minister

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,724
    edited November 17
    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,578
    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    What are they supposed to do? Oppose a ban?
  • As for that Mischonduct joke, that was a gag when I was a callow student.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,724
    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    What are they supposed to do? Oppose a ban?
    Yes! What are the Tories proposing? Labour make out they're going a lot further on it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,925
    edited November 17
    The other thing I've noted, this IS NOT a government acting like it has an 80 seat majority.
  • Though fair play to Boris Johnson, he did manage to boil the piss of the SNP at PMQs.

    Never a bad thing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    Sandpit said:

    Speaker requested Starmer to apologise for calling Boris a coward which he did

    The HOC is a very fractious place

    As we see with online discourse becoming more fractious over time, there’s definitely something to be said for the Parliamantary language rules. It makes people engage with discussion around the actual policy, rather than focussing on the personal.
    I think the sometime criticism that it prevents people from saying things doesn't hold up, since you can remain polite but scathing and hold someone's feet to the fire, and enforcing some level of decorum in the discussion strikes me as a reasonable trade off from being able to spit out insults which are not even creative.

    Drawing the line is difficult though, since I think coward is closer to acceptability than liar, being much more subjective.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    Though fair play to Boris Johnson, he did manage to boil the piss of the SNP at PMQs.

    Never a bad thing.

    Indeed - how'd he manage it?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,266
    I know that Prime Minister's Questions is supposed to be about the PM answering questions (but honestly most of the questions asked aren't looking for answers), but I think a lot of the public, if they notice, will think it's fair enough for Johnson to ask a question back about Starmer's double-jobbing, and they might feel there's a bit of an establishment cover up with the Speaker telling him he's not allowed to.
  • kle4 said:

    Though fair play to Boris Johnson, he did manage to boil the piss of the SNP at PMQs.

    Never a bad thing.

    Indeed - how'd he manage it?
    Made a reference to the missing £600,000.

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-internal-report-calls-for-reform-following-ps600k-missing-funds-furore-3371623
  • Though fair play to Boris Johnson, he did manage to boil the piss of the SNP at PMQs.

    Never a bad thing.

    Actually I think Blackford's crack about gaps on the government benches might have hit a nerve. It has been picked up on Twitter and indeed by this thread's header.
  • Though fair play to Boris Johnson, he did manage to boil the piss of the SNP at PMQs.

    Never a bad thing.

    Actually I think Blackford's crack about gaps on the government benches might have hit a nerve. It has been picked up on Twitter and indeed by this thread's header.
    Oh I agree.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    I totally agree with you. All sorts of dangers of rushing changes through for short term points scoring. If long term it results in only comfortably well off people becoming MPs it loses a lot of necessary diversity.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,632
    Johnson rattled?

    Cripes, one scrape too many eh?

    That well paid column in the Telegraph must be looking attractive this afternoon.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,853

    The other thing I've noted, this IS NOT a government acting like it has an 80 seat majority.

    Well it is an 80 seat majority providing he can keep the two opposing forces of Northern Red Wall MPs who have promised their constituents Levelling Up and safe seat Southern MPs who don't want money to be spent happy.

    Sadly that's an impossible task as Boris is starting to learn.
  • U-turn incoming? Boris's answer about trains for northerners promised a new announcement tomorrow.
  • Gordon's The Queen's alive.

    Queen seen standing and smiling at Windsor Castle

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1460953478994538505
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,499

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    I totally agree with you. All sorts of dangers of rushing changes through for short term points scoring. If long term it results in only comfortably well off people becoming MPs it loses a lot of necessary diversity.
    Biggest impediment to becoming an MP is nothing to do with the salary, it's that you have to be in a position to sacrifice a whole bunch of time contesting no hoper seats before any vacancy comes up. The time investment needed to ball licking whichever party you're going for + campaigning means it's not a career path for most people.
  • Gordon's The Queen's alive.

    Queen seen standing and smiling at Windsor Castle

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1460953478994538505

    Yes, although she is looking very florid floral.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    edited November 17
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I retract my previous criticisms of the Church of England, I'm sure @HYUFD will now be espousing disestablishing the Church of England.

    The Church of England is facing questions over its role in converting hundreds of asylum seekers, including the Liverpool suicide bomber, to Christianity in an attempt to help them avoid deportation.

    Priti Patel, the Home Secretary, is understood to be appalled at the "merry-go-round" of failed asylum seekers changing religion and using other tactics to launch "appeal after appeal" to stay in the country.

    The Iraqi man killed in the abortive suicide bomb attack outside Liverpool Women's Hospital is understood to have been helped by the Church in his attempts to avoid being kicked out of Britain, after his claim for asylum was first rejected in 2014.

    The Home Office believes changing religion is now "standard practice" among asylum seekers from countries including Iraq "to game the asylum system", as converts claim they are at risk of persecution in their home countries.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/17/church-fire-wake-liverpool-suicide-bombing-helping-asylum-seekers/

    That and being told to say they are gay are the two most obvious routes to asylum from shithole but not specifically dangerous countries.
    My ex, who worked in immigration law, described the comedy (on occasion) as er.... aggressively homophobic clients would get very worried that, when claiming to be gay, that might have to prove that they were gay.
    Which begs the question, how do you prove you are gay? :)
    Christ himself of course came from the Middle East, he was not Western. This man being a Syrian refugee who came to this country via Merkel and Cameron's refugee policy, grew up closer to the lands of the Bible than those Christians in Liverpool are
    He willingly converted to Christianity, so no reason to suspect otherwise.

    As Eek correctly says, it is the immigration service (and the government's) job not to let security risks into this country and to deport those who turn out to be security risks.

    That is not the Church's job. The Church's job includes converting souls to Christ
    Your God bloke must be a pretty vain snowflake if He cares so much about which church us little people go to when He can't even be bothered to make an appearance more than once every couple of thousand years.
    It is conversion to Christ which is key for Christians, not to God alone. It was Christ who appeared 2000 years ago as the Messiah.

    If you just convert to God rather than to Christ you could be Muslim or Jewish not just Christian.

    Ever since Adam and Eve humanity has largely been responsible for its own condition on earth rather than God
    Couple of questions HYUFD that I'm interested in:

    a) In the past the church actively carried out conversions particularly in colonies. This is not so much the case now and conversion is more of the willing. Do you think the church should be more active or stay as it is now.

    b) Do you believe in Adam and Eve?
    a) If you believe in Christian evangelising then yes that includes seeking converts to Christ.

    b) Yes.
    Considering Lilith was shagging Adam and Sam at same time are you quite sure of the parentage of Adam’s children?


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,080
    kle4 said:

    Though fair play to Boris Johnson, he did manage to boil the piss of the SNP at PMQs.

    Never a bad thing.

    Indeed - how'd he manage it?
    Directed microwave beams.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 4,742
    Some idiot reporter on BBC News "prices have shot up by 4.2% in October". No they haven't.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516
    edited November 17
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    I totally agree with you. All sorts of dangers of rushing changes through for short term points scoring. If long term it results in only comfortably well off people becoming MPs it loses a lot of necessary diversity.
    Biggest impediment to becoming an MP is nothing to do with the salary, it's that you have to be in a position to sacrifice a whole bunch of time contesting no hoper seats before any vacancy comes up. The time investment needed to ball licking whichever party you're going for + campaigning means it's not a career path for most people.
    You actually only need to contest 1 no hoper seat normally and sometimes not even that.

    A few Tory MPs elected for the first time in former Labour seats in the Redwall in 2019 had only been councillors before and never stood for Parliament before. Corbyn also was only a councillor before being elected to Islington North in 1983, he never fought a safe Tory parliamentary seat.

    A few high flyers also get put straight into safe seats, having never even been elected as a councillor. Tatton in 2001 for example was the first election George Osborne ever fought, he never fought a Labour held parliamentary seat. Holborn and St Pancras in 2015 was the first seat Sir Keir Starmer fought and neither of the Milibands fought a Tory seat before David got South Shields in 2001 and Ed got Doncaster in 2005.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    The other thing I've noted, this IS NOT a government acting like it has an 80 seat majority.

    It never has, always very nervy and jumpy. Paterson was a rare occasion they tried to act like it, but picked the wrong thing to do so on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,241
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Though fair play to Boris Johnson, he did manage to boil the piss of the SNP at PMQs.

    Never a bad thing.

    Indeed - how'd he manage it?
    Directed microwave beams.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AU7499XdEk
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,864
    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    As for that Mischonduct joke, that was a gag when I was a callow student.

    I’m a practicing solicitor in London who has been interviewed at, acted against and done deals with Mischon de Reya since I qualified 20 years ago. Took me ages to get the joke. Admittedly that may be because I’m slow on the uptake - but surely that was too niche for the general public?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,080
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Speaker requested Starmer to apologise for calling Boris a coward which he did

    The HOC is a very fractious place

    As we see with online discourse becoming more fractious over time, there’s definitely something to be said for the Parliamantary language rules. It makes people engage with discussion around the actual policy, rather than focussing on the personal.
    I think the sometime criticism that it prevents people from saying things doesn't hold up, since you can remain polite but scathing and hold someone's feet to the fire, and enforcing some level of decorum in the discussion strikes me as a reasonable trade off from being able to spit out insults which are not even creative.

    Drawing the line is difficult though, since I think coward is closer to acceptability than liar, being much more subjective.
    It would certainly be fair to say that one might more accurately describe the PM as foolhardy than courageous.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,853
    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    My main criteria for a credit card is that it works on my phone - the point generating one doesn't which is more than a might annoying.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,864
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    My main criteria for a credit card is that it works on my phone - the point generating one doesn't which is more than a might annoying.
    Yeah this is just to use with Amazon. Everything else will stay with Barclaycard anyway which works with Google Pay just fine.
  • Though fair play to Boris Johnson, he did manage to boil the piss of the SNP at PMQs.

    Never a bad thing.

    Isn't that up there with scoring against San Marino in the difficulty stakes though?
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,341
    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,864
    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    I just find credit cards good for money management, everything gets paid once a month that way.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,788
    If one wants to know Boris's utter contempt for the rules, it is enough to watch how he dodged sanction today by childishly injecting proceedings with H multiple times in front of the whole house.

    Utterly toxic, class A, contempt.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 8,811
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    My main criteria for a credit card is that it works on my phone - the point generating one doesn't which is more than a might annoying.
    Yeah this is just to use with Amazon. Everything else will stay with Barclaycard anyway which works with Google Pay just fine.
    I just did the same. 10mins and a new credit card with a big limit. Amazon gave me a £40 voucher at least.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500
    MaxPB said:

    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    I just find credit cards good for money management, everything gets paid once a month that way.
    Or in far too many cases for those on less money, doesn't.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,853
    MaxPB said:

    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    I just find credit cards good for money management, everything gets paid once a month that way.
    +1 - a single payment and a monthly sanity check on what I'm spending money on.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,266
    edited November 17
    I've been following the trial on the murder of six-year old Arthur Labinjo-Hughes after the case was highlighted by another PBer. There have been 29 days of often harrowing evidence.

    Today, on day 30, the trial has been adjourned because lead counsel for one of the defendants has Covid symptoms and is waiting for the result of a Covid test. Does anyone know what happens if he tests positive? Is there a chance they might have to scrap the trial and start again with a fresh jury?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 545

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    I totally agree with you. All sorts of dangers of rushing changes through for short term points scoring. If long term it results in only comfortably well off people becoming MPs it loses a lot of necessary diversity.
    It probably results in either extremely well off MPs with independent means, or the large number of people for whom £80k is a nice pay rise. Possibly younger MPs too. What it potentially puts off is people in senior professional or management roles who earn more than the MP's salary and rely on their incomes to pay for the house and lifestyle they've got accustomed to. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a matter of taste.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 1,855
    edited November 17

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    I totally agree with you. All sorts of dangers of rushing changes through for short term points scoring. If long term it results in only comfortably well off people becoming MPs it loses a lot of necessary diversity.
    You'd still have all those for whom an MP's salary is a pay rise, as well as those who are wealthy enough to mean that "surviving" on an MP's salary as their only earned income isn't a struggle for a few years. That could be a pretty diverse population.

    [edit - I see @TimS beat me to the same point more or less]
  • eek said:

    The other thing I've noted, this IS NOT a government acting like it has an 80 seat majority.

    Well it is an 80 seat majority providing he can keep the two opposing forces of Northern Red Wall MPs who have promised their constituents Levelling Up and safe seat Southern MPs who don't want money to be spent happy.

    Sadly that's an impossible task as Boris is starting to learn.
    Essence of Johnson's politics has always been cake'n'eat it, or wife'n'mistress.

    Red'n'blue has always had the same underpinning, and works brilliantly until wife and mistress meet.

    It looks like they just have.
  • MaxPB said:

    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    I just find credit cards good for money management, everything gets paid once a month that way.
    I love my Nectar credit card, get points for using it, am averaging £800-£1200 in cashbacks per year.

    Put everything on that.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 4,742
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    I just find credit cards good for money management, everything gets paid once a month that way.
    +1 - a single payment and a monthly sanity check on what I'm spending money on.
    And it's good for online shopping. If anyone defrauds me, they are stealing the bank's money, not taking it out of my bank account
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,266

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    I just find credit cards good for money management, everything gets paid once a month that way.
    +1 - a single payment and a monthly sanity check on what I'm spending money on.
    And it's good for online shopping. If anyone defrauds me, they are stealing the bank's money, not taking it out of my bank account
    That was essentially the substance of my Dad's advice to take out a credit card and avoid using the debit card as much as possible.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,869
    DougSeal said:

    As for that Mischonduct joke, that was a gag when I was a callow student.

    I’m a practicing solicitor in London who has been interviewed at, acted against and done deals with Mischon de Reya since I qualified 20 years ago. Took me ages to get the joke. Admittedly that may be because I’m slow on the uptake - but surely that was too niche for the general public?
    Thank you for enlightening me (I didn't catch the exchange - just read about it on here and wondered what the 'joke' was)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,589
    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    Credit cards often come with perks - such as Air Miles. Over the course of a year - if you manage your spend well -the benefits can really add up.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,080
    Now that's a genuine long distance interconnect.

    Chile proposes underwater transmission line to export power to Asia
    https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/chile-proposes-underwater-transmission-line-to-export-power-to-asia
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516
    edited November 17
    Polruan said:

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    I totally agree with you. All sorts of dangers of rushing changes through for short term points scoring. If long term it results in only comfortably well off people becoming MPs it loses a lot of necessary diversity.
    You'd still have all those for whom an MP's salary is a pay rise, as well as those who are wealthy enough to mean that "surviving" on an MP's salary as their only earned income isn't a struggle for a few years. That could be a pretty diverse population.

    [edit - I see @TimS beat me to the same point more or less]
    Indeed, you would still have the political activists and professional councillors for whom being elected as an MP on £81,932 a year would be a payrise.

    You would also still have those who have large trust funds and inherited wealth and who do not need a salary like Zac Goldsmith or Margaret Hodge.

    Banning second jobs though would see a decline in high earning professionals seeking to stand for Parliament given they would have to give up their current profession completely and take a pay cut
  • DougSeal said:

    As for that Mischonduct joke, that was a gag when I was a callow student.

    I’m a practicing solicitor in London who has been interviewed at, acted against and done deals with Mischon de Reya since I qualified 20 years ago. Took me ages to get the joke. Admittedly that may be because I’m slow on the uptake - but surely that was too niche for the general public?
    It's too niche for us all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,564
    Are we working through Boris’s inadequacies in any sort of order?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,589

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    I just find credit cards good for money management, everything gets paid once a month that way.
    +1 - a single payment and a monthly sanity check on what I'm spending money on.
    And it's good for online shopping. If anyone defrauds me, they are stealing the bank's money, not taking it out of my bank account
    This is very important: with a debit card, you need to prove transactions are fraudulent; with a credit card, the bank needs to prove the transactions are genuine.
  • MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    A year or so back a retail worker was lamenting that she could not get a credit card. Unlike you, she did not have a decade's experience in the City. A cashless society is not yet for all.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    edited November 17
    Polruan said:

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Labour making a mistake with this ban on second jobs. Looks opportunistic.

    I totally agree with you. All sorts of dangers of rushing changes through for short term points scoring. If long term it results in only comfortably well off people becoming MPs it loses a lot of necessary diversity.
    You'd still have all those for whom an MP's salary is a pay rise, as well as those who are wealthy enough to mean that "surviving" on an MP's salary as their only earned income isn't a struggle for a few years. That could be a pretty diverse population.

    [edit - I see @TimS beat me to the same point more or less]
    Thank you. I think both the posts sum up perfectly likely outcome of banning second jobs, or at least putting some on naughty least leaving some on okay list. I agree with you it appears affect not too bad on diversity.
    My point was more broad brush though, the dangers of rushing through for political point scoring having unintended consequences. Like kill all sparrows and kill all flies.

    To stop starvation Chairman Mao said kill all sparrows. So less locust babies eaten resulting in big locust plaque and mass starvation. And Chairman Mao said stop killing all sparrows.
  • This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,564
    tlg86 said:

    Gordon's The Queen's alive.

    Queen seen standing and smiling at Windsor Castle

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1460953478994538505

    She's not holding a copy of today's Telegraph.
    Is she old enough yet to be a hard copy Telegraph reader?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,001

    I know that Prime Minister's Questions is supposed to be about the PM answering questions (but honestly most of the questions asked aren't looking for answers), but I think a lot of the public, if they notice, will think it's fair enough for Johnson to ask a question back about Starmer's double-jobbing, and they might feel there's a bit of an establishment cover up with the Speaker telling him he's not allowed to.

    It's cumulative, though. For the last 18 months the Speaker has ticked off the PM frequently for not answering questions put to him, and asking questions of the LOTO instead. The PM has worn down the Speaker's patience. It would be better if the session were re-named "Questions to the PM", because the current incumbent seems to think that PMQs means it's his opportunity to grill the LOTO rather than the other way round.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    I retract my previous criticisms of the Church of England, I'm sure @HYUFD will now be espousing disestablishing the Church of England.

    The Church of England is facing questions over its role in converting hundreds of asylum seekers, including the Liverpool suicide bomber, to Christianity in an attempt to help them avoid deportation.

    Priti Patel, the Home Secretary, is understood to be appalled at the "merry-go-round" of failed asylum seekers changing religion and using other tactics to launch "appeal after appeal" to stay in the country.

    The Iraqi man killed in the abortive suicide bomb attack outside Liverpool Women's Hospital is understood to have been helped by the Church in his attempts to avoid being kicked out of Britain, after his claim for asylum was first rejected in 2014.

    The Home Office believes changing religion is now "standard practice" among asylum seekers from countries including Iraq "to game the asylum system", as converts claim they are at risk of persecution in their home countries.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/17/church-fire-wake-liverpool-suicide-bombing-helping-asylum-seekers/

    That and being told to say they are gay are the two most obvious routes to asylum from shithole but not specifically dangerous countries.
    My ex, who worked in immigration law, described the comedy (on occasion) as er.... aggressively homophobic clients would get very worried that, when claiming to be gay, that might have to prove that they were gay.
    Which begs the question, how do you prove you are gay? :)
    Christ himself of course came from the Middle East, he was not Western. This man being a Syrian refugee who came to this country via Merkel and Cameron's refugee policy, grew up closer to the lands of the Bible than those Christians in Liverpool are
    He willingly converted to Christianity, so no reason to suspect otherwise.

    As Eek correctly says, it is the immigration service (and the government's) job not to let security risks into this country and to deport those who turn out to be security risks.

    That is not the Church's job. The Church's job includes converting souls to Christ
    Your God bloke must be a pretty vain snowflake if He cares so much about which church us little people go to when He can't even be bothered to make an appearance more than once every couple of thousand years.
    It is conversion to Christ which is key for Christians, not to God alone. It was Christ who appeared 2000 years ago as the Messiah.

    If you just convert to God rather than to Christ you could be Muslim or Jewish not just Christian.

    Ever since Adam and Eve humanity has largely been responsible for its own condition on earth rather than God
    Couple of questions HYUFD that I'm interested in:

    a) In the past the church actively carried out conversions particularly in colonies. This is not so much the case now and conversion is more of the willing. Do you think the church should be more active or stay as it is now.

    b) Do you believe in Adam and Eve?
    a) If you believe in Christian evangelising then yes that includes seeking converts to Christ.

    b) Yes.
    Considering Lilith was shagging Adam and Sam at same time are you quite sure of the parentage of Adam’s children?


    If you want to say Adam and Judith is unbelievable ancient Judaic myth, that’s okay, we’ll understand.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,864

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    I thought Amex had a sweetheart deal with Amazon which brought their processing fees in line with MasterCard and Visa.
  • MaxPB said:

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    I thought Amex had a sweetheart deal with Amazon which brought their processing fees in line with MasterCard and Visa.
    Might explain it.
  • This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    It is hard to discern any great point of principle on either side. Can they both lose? Other PBers have already switched but I am half-inclined to use this as an excuse to stop buying from Amazon. I already have too many unread books, unwatched dvds and unused gadgets.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,853

    MaxPB said:

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    I thought Amex had a sweetheart deal with Amazon which brought their processing fees in line with MasterCard and Visa.
    Might explain it.
    As by the looks of does Mastercard - leaving Visa as the odd one out - who are now going to have to accept an even smaller fee or witness a percentage of their business disappear.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,853

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    It is hard to discern any great point of principle on either side. Can they both lose? Other PBers have already switched but I am half-inclined to use this as an excuse to stop buying from Amazon. I already have too many unread books, unwatched dvds and unused gadgets.
    Were that my issue - Amazon's next day delivery means leaving them would be incredibly painful.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,266

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    For many people it will be easier to use a different card than a different website.

    I have a Visa debit card and a MasterCard credit card in addition to my Visa credit card. It's not hard for most people to get a new credit card, or even a prepaid card, whether an Amazon gift card or a MasterCard/Visa prepaid card.

    Visa are going to lose big unless they can convince regulators very quickly that it's an abuse of a dominant market position by Amazon - and even then I don't think remedy would come quickly enough.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,241

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    A year or so back a retail worker was lamenting that she could not get a credit card. Unlike you, she did not have a decade's experience in the City. A cashless society is not yet for all.
    What did she need that Revolut could not provide?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,266

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    It is hard to discern any great point of principle on either side. Can they both lose? Other PBers have already switched but I am half-inclined to use this as an excuse to stop buying from Amazon. I already have too many unread books, unwatched dvds and unused gadgets.
    It's hard to avoid Amazon.

    Wife's USB charging cable has broken, needs a replacement. Goes directly to phone manufacturer - buy now link for new cable takes her to Amazon. We bought a new audio out cable from a British online electronics retailer - cable was delivered as a gift bought from Amazon.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,069
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    My main criteria for a credit card is that it works on my phone - the point generating one doesn't which is more than a might annoying.
    Yeah this is just to use with Amazon. Everything else will stay with Barclaycard anyway which works with Google Pay just fine.
    What is the advantage of having an Amazon credit card?

    I like my Amex but they keep reducing the cashback.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    That's right Jordan, punch yourself in the face, that'll show the libtards who's hard.


  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,022
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    slade said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    I have simply switched my Amazon account from Visa credit card to Visa debit card. It just means I pay a little earlier.
    I just find credit cards good for money management, everything gets paid once a month that way.
    +1 - a single payment and a monthly sanity check on what I'm spending money on.
    And it's good for online shopping. If anyone defrauds me, they are stealing the bank's money, not taking it out of my bank account
    This is very important: with a debit card, you need to prove transactions are fraudulent; with a credit card, the bank needs to prove the transactions are genuine.
    I had a deposit with a pre-AirBnB type company in NY which went bust - the credit card company refunded my full deposit. I've just paid for removals/storage and works on my new place and I've been pleasantly surprised at the number of suppliers who accept credit cards.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 107

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    I'm not sure they really will drop visa cards in the end -- if they nudge a lot of the people who already have one of each card over to using the mastercard they'll save a chunk of money, and by showing visa they're serious then they have a pretty good chance of persuading visa into giving them some kind of deal...
  • pingping Posts: 1,421
    edited November 17

    I've been following the trial on the murder of six-year old Arthur Labinjo-Hughes after the case was highlighted by another PBer. There have been 29 days of often harrowing evidence.

    Today, on day 30, the trial has been adjourned because lead counsel for one of the defendants has Covid symptoms and is waiting for the result of a Covid test. Does anyone know what happens if he tests positive? Is there a chance they might have to scrap the trial and start again with a fresh jury?

    If it’s a new trial, no doubt they’ll take the chance to change their story.

    As the trial has gone on, I’ve developed a shred of sympathy for the chap. She’s the really evil one, imo.

    I don’t know how either of them can live with themselves, though.

    Also, pretty major failure of social services. They seriously fucked up.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,853
    pm215 said:

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    I'm not sure they really will drop visa cards in the end -- if they nudge a lot of the people who already have one of each card over to using the mastercard they'll save a chunk of money, and by showing visa they're serious then they have a pretty good chance of persuading visa into giving them some kind of deal...
    By removing the rental fees Sum-up and Square have made accepting credit cards far easier for small companies.

    Stripe has likewise made it easy to accept credit cards payments from just an invoice link.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,564
    The debate on the Randox contracts in the HoC doesn’t sound like it’s going very well for the government.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,578
    IanB2 said:

    The debate on the Randox contracts in the HoC doesn’t sound like it’s going very well for the government.

    Indeed. This is not good.

    "A government Minister just confirmed in Parliament that there are no minutes to the meeting(s) that took place between Lord Bethell, Owen Paterson and Randox as part of Randox being awarded £600 million of contracts without any kind of tender or any process."



    https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1460966933285724167?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1460966933285724167|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/nov/17/boris-johnson-mps-second-jobs-pmqs-tory-sleaze-politics-live-news
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 5,266
    ping said:

    I've been following the trial on the murder of six-year old Arthur Labinjo-Hughes after the case was highlighted by another PBer. There have been 29 days of often harrowing evidence.

    Today, on day 30, the trial has been adjourned because lead counsel for one of the defendants has Covid symptoms and is waiting for the result of a Covid test. Does anyone know what happens if he tests positive? Is there a chance they might have to scrap the trial and start again with a fresh jury?

    If it’s a new trial, no doubt they’ll take the chance to change their story.

    As the trial has gone on, I’ve developed a shred of sympathy for the chap. She’s the really evil one, imo.

    I don’t know how either of them can live with themselves, though.

    Also, pretty major failure of social services. They seriously fucked up.
    There's little wiggle room for either of the defendants because of the astonishing quantity of incriminating evidence they collected on themselves.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,564
    An influential Conservative environmental group has distanced itself from Stanley Johnson after allegations made against the prime minister’s father by a senior MP and a political journalists.

    It came as another political journalist, Isabel Oakeshott, described Johnson as “handsy” but said she did not deem it worthy of a criminal investigation.

    The Conservative Environment Network (CEN), for which Stanley Johnson acts as international ambassador, said it was concerned about the the allegations, made by the former cabinet minister Caroline Nokes and the New Statesman journalist Alibhe Rea.

    The group said in a statement: “We take all allegations of inappropriate behaviour very seriously. We have clear internal processes for managing allegations of this nature, and these are currently being followed. The alleged behaviour is not acceptable to CEN.”
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    IanB2 said:

    The debate on the Randox contracts in the HoC doesn’t sound like it’s going very well for the government.

    Some on the government benches phoning their arguments in, literally?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,564
    Meanwhile in other news, our Police Intelligence desk reports…

    A car rented by Bedfordshire police was the subject of a bomb scare after it was parked outside an event in central London that was due to be attended by the Israeli ambassador.

    The vehicle had five of its windows smashed in by a specialist team from the Metropolitan police before officers realised it was being used by another force.

    It is believed the Bedfordshire force had rented the black Nissan Qashqai but failed to display a police logbook in the window to show the vehicle was safe.
  • pm215 said:

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    I'm not sure they really will drop visa cards in the end -- if they nudge a lot of the people who already have one of each card over to using the mastercard they'll save a chunk of money, and by showing visa they're serious then they have a pretty good chance of persuading visa into giving them some kind of deal...
    One thing that could be bad for Amazon is that people will have to change their credit card on record. If it;s VISA, this will give them a chance to drop out of subscriptions they don't really use.
  • MaxPB said:

    Following this morning's email from Amazon, I've got a new credit card. I'm genuinely shocked as to how easy it is. I haven't done it for about 10 years as I've been pretty happy with Barclaycard, but I went to the MBNA website and about 10 mins later I had a new credit card with a £22k limit (which I very much intend to lower when the card arrives lol). No wonder we're a nation with chronic debt issues.

    A year or so back a retail worker was lamenting that she could not get a credit card. Unlike you, she did not have a decade's experience in the City. A cashless society is not yet for all.
    What did she need that Revolut could not provide?
    No idea, though I doubt that she, as a minimum wage worker, is fully up to speed with all options. I'd never heard of Revolut till just now and it seems to be a smartphone app. Whether said worker has a smartphone is another question.
  • pingping Posts: 1,421
    edited November 17

    ping said:

    I've been following the trial on the murder of six-year old Arthur Labinjo-Hughes after the case was highlighted by another PBer. There have been 29 days of often harrowing evidence.

    Today, on day 30, the trial has been adjourned because lead counsel for one of the defendants has Covid symptoms and is waiting for the result of a Covid test. Does anyone know what happens if he tests positive? Is there a chance they might have to scrap the trial and start again with a fresh jury?

    If it’s a new trial, no doubt they’ll take the chance to change their story.

    As the trial has gone on, I’ve developed a shred of sympathy for the chap. She’s the really evil one, imo.

    I don’t know how either of them can live with themselves, though.

    Also, pretty major failure of social services. They seriously fucked up.
    There's little wiggle room for either of the defendants because of the astonishing quantity of incriminating evidence they collected on themselves.
    Indeed.

    They’re both fucked. I just don’t get how a man could turn on his own child like that. For the love of a woman. Crazy.
  • ping said:

    I've been following the trial on the murder of six-year old Arthur Labinjo-Hughes after the case was highlighted by another PBer. There have been 29 days of often harrowing evidence.

    Today, on day 30, the trial has been adjourned because lead counsel for one of the defendants has Covid symptoms and is waiting for the result of a Covid test. Does anyone know what happens if he tests positive? Is there a chance they might have to scrap the trial and start again with a fresh jury?

    If it’s a new trial, no doubt they’ll take the chance to change their story.

    As the trial has gone on, I’ve developed a shred of sympathy for the chap. She’s the really evil one, imo.

    I don’t know how either of them can live with themselves, though.

    Also, pretty major failure of social services. They seriously fucked up.
    I've not been following the case but from that link, it is not clear what they have spent 29 days on. The main story talks about salt poisoning but the charge is that the child was shaken to death (which btw has become a more controversial diagnosis over recent years). But as a non-lawyer, I find it hard to imagine how they have spun it out for more than a week.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500
    The government will not oppose the humble address to release all minutes of Paterson and Bethell and Randox.
    Why?
    Cos there aren't any.
    Genius!
  • Ouch.

    Tory MP ANDREW ROSINDELL interviews on MP 2nd Jobs and £20 uplift

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1lXfl5S-4o
  • About f***ing time. 9 Insulate Britain protesters jailed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59307679

    Blocking highways could result in fatal accidents and/or fatal or serious disruption to people who need to get about. If people want to protest, then they have the right to do so, but they also have the right to own the consequences for their choices behind bars.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,578
    dixiedean said:

    The government will not oppose the humble address to release all minutes of Paterson and Bethell and Randox.
    Why?
    Cos there aren't any.
    Genius!

    Well, it saves yet another u-turn.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,476
    It seems that negative PCR tests after positive Lateral Flow tests are a growing problem. I've just got a negative PCR result after three positive LFTs as well as a couple of days of Covid symptoms. I've been told to get another PCR and to keep isolating in the meantime.
  • Ouch.

    Tory MP ANDREW ROSINDELL interviews on MP 2nd Jobs and £20 uplift

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1lXfl5S-4o

    I can see both by elections being lost to be honest

    And deservedly
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,992

    Some idiot reporter on BBC News "prices have shot up by 4.2% in October". No they haven't.

    Innumerate journalists, who’d have thought that?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,242
    Ref, ref, stop the fight, my opponent is fighting back!

    Bobby McDonagh
    @BobbyMcDonagh1
    Frost doesn’t think it would be “helpful” for EU to retaliate if he triggers Art 16: “I say, you chaps. I’m planning to punch you on the nose, but I think it would frightfully unsporting of you to respond”.
  • pingping Posts: 1,421

    ping said:

    I've been following the trial on the murder of six-year old Arthur Labinjo-Hughes after the case was highlighted by another PBer. There have been 29 days of often harrowing evidence.

    Today, on day 30, the trial has been adjourned because lead counsel for one of the defendants has Covid symptoms and is waiting for the result of a Covid test. Does anyone know what happens if he tests positive? Is there a chance they might have to scrap the trial and start again with a fresh jury?

    If it’s a new trial, no doubt they’ll take the chance to change their story.

    As the trial has gone on, I’ve developed a shred of sympathy for the chap. She’s the really evil one, imo.

    I don’t know how either of them can live with themselves, though.

    Also, pretty major failure of social services. They seriously fucked up.
    I've not been following the case but from that link, it is not clear what they have spent 29 days on. The main story talks about salt poisoning but the charge is that the child was shaken to death (which btw has become a more controversial diagnosis over recent years). But as a non-lawyer, I find it hard to imagine how they have spun it out for more than a week.
    There was a gigantic amount of WhatsApp evidence for the prosecution, where they pretty much incriminated themselves.
    I agree though, the length is excessive.

  • Was out over lunch, so have had to watch PMQs. A few thoughts:

    1. The Tories hated Bercow. I think Hoyle is about to stomp all over their view about "rules" in much the same way. There is now open warfare between the Treasury bench and the Speaker
    2. The Integrated Rail Plan tomorrow is going to unveil a pig without even the application of lipstick. The growing wailing and gnashing of northern MPs is going to amplifty massively
    3. The PM thinks the only defence against corruption is claim everyone is corrupt. Which means that he knows he has no hope of either clearing his own side of corruption or even covering it up. The game is clearly up.
    4. The Ian Blackford "Look at the Gaps! The rebellion has started" comment utterly deflated Johnson. Compare and contrast his demeanour and tone before and after.

    We can't even say its only one PMQs as this has been building for a while. Also listen to the questions asked - a long list of bad things and problems listed with nothing but waffle in response. There is a lot more than broken promises on rail that angry Tory voters can get fed up about.

    He's off to the liaison committee at 3pm. This could be required viewing...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 4,845

    About f***ing time. 9 Insulate Britain protesters jailed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59307679

    Blocking highways could result in fatal accidents and/or fatal or serious disruption to people who need to get about. If people want to protest, then they have the right to do so, but they also have the right to own the consequences for their choices behind bars.

    Can anyone explain why it was necessary to bring in this injunction? Could the existing law not do the job?
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