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How the most ill-tempered PMQs in years is being reported – politicalbetting.com

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,717
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    The government will not oppose the humble address to release all minutes of Paterson and Bethell and Randox.
    Why?
    Cos there aren't any.
    Genius!

    Well, it saves yet another u-turn.
    Why on earth wasn’t someone told to write some! It’s not even competent corruption!
  • Ref, ref, stop the fight, my opponent is fighting back!

    Bobby McDonagh
    @BobbyMcDonagh1
    Frost doesn’t think it would be “helpful” for EU to retaliate if he triggers Art 16: “I say, you chaps. I’m planning to punch you on the nose, but I think it would frightfully unsporting of you to respond”.

    You may like this twitter exchange, where, as usual, Cyclefree lowers the tone.

    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1460893489596715013
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    The government is falling apart before our very eyes.

    Pending our Mr Thompson advising it’s all part of some cunning plan, obvs.
  • About f***ing time. 9 Insulate Britain protesters jailed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59307679

    Blocking highways could result in fatal accidents and/or fatal or serious disruption to people who need to get about. If people want to protest, then they have the right to do so, but they also have the right to own the consequences for their choices behind bars.

    Can anyone explain why it was necessary to bring in this injunction? Could the existing law not do the job?
    IANAL but my understanding is that the existing law deals with people being improperly on highways as a matter for fines not prison. Since the general expectation is that people aren't so f***ing stupid as to sit on motorways.

    So the injunction created a custodial sentence when there was none previously because contempt of court deserves a custodial sentence.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    ping said:

    I've been following the trial on the murder of six-year old Arthur Labinjo-Hughes after the case was highlighted by another PBer. There have been 29 days of often harrowing evidence.

    Today, on day 30, the trial has been adjourned because lead counsel for one of the defendants has Covid symptoms and is waiting for the result of a Covid test. Does anyone know what happens if he tests positive? Is there a chance they might have to scrap the trial and start again with a fresh jury?

    If it’s a new trial, no doubt they’ll take the chance to change their story.

    As the trial has gone on, I’ve developed a shred of sympathy for the chap. She’s the really evil one, imo.

    I don’t know how either of them can live with themselves, though.

    Also, pretty major failure of social services. They seriously fucked up.
    I've not been following the case but from that link, it is not clear what they have spent 29 days on. The main story talks about salt poisoning but the charge is that the child was shaken to death (which btw has become a more controversial diagnosis over recent years). But as a non-lawyer, I find it hard to imagine how they have spun it out for more than a week.
    The defendants had a CCTV camera in their living room, so there is endless quantities of evidence of how badly they treated the poor child in the days and weeks prior to his death. Similar with hundreds of mobile phone recordings of him in distress.

    Lots of testimony from various doctors on his injuries, and then from other witnesses on how Arthur was treated in front of other adults by the defendants.

    Amazingly both defendants have chosen to testify in their own defence, but as far as I can tell have only harmed their defence by doing so, as they attempt to prove the other is primarily responsible.
  • IanB2 said:

    The government is falling apart before our very eyes.

    Pending our Mr Thompson advising it’s all part of some cunning plan, obvs.

    I'll pass, thanks.

    I said much the same thing a couple of days ago saying the wheels are coming off. It just isn't good enough right now, and some order needs restoring . . . preferably with dinosaurs like Chope having the whip removed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    edited November 2021

    Ref, ref, stop the fight, my opponent is fighting back!

    Bobby McDonagh
    @BobbyMcDonagh1
    Frost doesn’t think it would be “helpful” for EU to retaliate if he triggers Art 16: “I say, you chaps. I’m planning to punch you on the nose, but I think it would frightfully unsporting of you to respond”.

    You may like this twitter exchange, where, as usual, Cyclefree lowers the tone.

    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1460893489596715013
    I thought the main example of idiot with pyrotechnic up backside was a Surrey chap in Leicester [amended] Square?!
  • Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    So the minutes of the meeting are like my car keys?
  • Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Late November is normally a good time to buy into the markets, ready to ride the ‘santa rally’. But this year, I do wonder whether that would be wise? Dark clouds seem to be gathering all around, yet markets continue to rise.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Was out over lunch, so have had to watch PMQs. A few thoughts:

    1. The Tories hated Bercow. I think Hoyle is about to stomp all over their view about "rules" in much the same way. There is now open warfare between the Treasury bench and the Speaker
    2. The Integrated Rail Plan tomorrow is going to unveil a pig without even the application of lipstick. The growing wailing and gnashing of northern MPs is going to amplifty massively
    3. The PM thinks the only defence against corruption is claim everyone is corrupt. Which means that he knows he has no hope of either clearing his own side of corruption or even covering it up. The game is clearly up.
    4. The Ian Blackford "Look at the Gaps! The rebellion has started" comment utterly deflated Johnson. Compare and contrast his demeanour and tone before and after.

    We can't even say its only one PMQs as this has been building for a while. Also listen to the questions asked - a long list of bad things and problems listed with nothing but waffle in response. There is a lot more than broken promises on rail that angry Tory voters can get fed up about.

    He's off to the liaison committee at 3pm. This could be required viewing...

    Very taken aback to see how aerated the Speaker got.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Ref, ref, stop the fight, my opponent is fighting back!

    Bobby McDonagh
    @BobbyMcDonagh1
    Frost doesn’t think it would be “helpful” for EU to retaliate if he triggers Art 16: “I say, you chaps. I’m planning to punch you on the nose, but I think it would frightfully unsporting of you to respond”.

    You may like this twitter exchange, where, as usual, Cyclefree lowers the tone.

    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1460893489596715013
    The cheek of you!

    (Pun intended)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Indeed. It is impossible to "lose", nor to find at the moment, something which never existed.
    Can't really argue with that.
    Slapdash amateurism. Would be up at a disciplinary in child protection PDQ. And you would need bloody good mitigation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    edited November 2021

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    [deleted: Mr J turned up]
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,919
    edited November 2021

    MaxPB said:

    This Amazon Visa thing.

    I suspect it will all end in tears for Amazon. Their defence is that Visa credit card charges are much higher which is why they are banning them.

    Seems a credible defence but they are allowing AMEX cards to be used and we all know they charge much higher processing fees than either Mastercard or Visa so if Visa want to kick off they have a strong base from which to do so.

    I thought Amex had a sweetheart deal with Amazon which brought their processing fees in line with MasterCard and Visa.
    Might explain it.
    Word on another forum is that, due to Brexit, VISA & Mastercard are now charging international interchange fees for payments from UK -> EU companies (~0.5% -> ~1.5% was the quoted change). Payments to Amazon from UK customers go through their Luxembourg subsidiary (check your invoices to see this), so have fallen foul of this increase in charges.

    Presumably Amazon have negotiated a sweetheart deal with Mastercard & Amex, but VISA have held out.
  • Carnyx said:

    Was out over lunch, so have had to watch PMQs. A few thoughts:

    1. The Tories hated Bercow. I think Hoyle is about to stomp all over their view about "rules" in much the same way. There is now open warfare between the Treasury bench and the Speaker
    2. The Integrated Rail Plan tomorrow is going to unveil a pig without even the application of lipstick. The growing wailing and gnashing of northern MPs is going to amplifty massively
    3. The PM thinks the only defence against corruption is claim everyone is corrupt. Which means that he knows he has no hope of either clearing his own side of corruption or even covering it up. The game is clearly up.
    4. The Ian Blackford "Look at the Gaps! The rebellion has started" comment utterly deflated Johnson. Compare and contrast his demeanour and tone before and after.

    We can't even say its only one PMQs as this has been building for a while. Also listen to the questions asked - a long list of bad things and problems listed with nothing but waffle in response. There is a lot more than broken promises on rail that angry Tory voters can get fed up about.

    He's off to the liaison committee at 3pm. This could be required viewing...

    Very taken aback to see how aerated the Speaker got.
    I'm not. Johnson has been egregiously stepping over the line at LOTO's Questions for a while, combined with the further pisstaking over constantly briefing the media rather than the Commons. Its been blowing up for a while.

    Johnson needs to pin sleaze on everyone because he cannot either disprove there is Tory sleaze or even just cover it up. That is clear.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Bozo under cross-examination, live on Parliament TV
  • IanB2 said:

    Bozo under cross-examination, live on Parliament TV

    And on BBC
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Carnyx said:

    Was out over lunch, so have had to watch PMQs. A few thoughts:

    1. The Tories hated Bercow. I think Hoyle is about to stomp all over their view about "rules" in much the same way. There is now open warfare between the Treasury bench and the Speaker
    2. The Integrated Rail Plan tomorrow is going to unveil a pig without even the application of lipstick. The growing wailing and gnashing of northern MPs is going to amplifty massively
    3. The PM thinks the only defence against corruption is claim everyone is corrupt. Which means that he knows he has no hope of either clearing his own side of corruption or even covering it up. The game is clearly up.
    4. The Ian Blackford "Look at the Gaps! The rebellion has started" comment utterly deflated Johnson. Compare and contrast his demeanour and tone before and after.

    We can't even say its only one PMQs as this has been building for a while. Also listen to the questions asked - a long list of bad things and problems listed with nothing but waffle in response. There is a lot more than broken promises on rail that angry Tory voters can get fed up about.

    He's off to the liaison committee at 3pm. This could be required viewing...

    Very taken aback to see how aerated the Speaker got.
    I'm not. Johnson has been egregiously stepping over the line at LOTO's Questions for a while, combined with the further pisstaking over constantly briefing the media rather than the Commons. Its been blowing up for a while.

    Johnson needs to pin sleaze on everyone because he cannot either disprove there is Tory sleaze or even just cover it up. That is clear.
    THanks. Not suggesting Mr Hoyle didn't have reason - just hadn't realised the pressure that had built up.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    IanB2 said:

    Bozo under cross-examination, live on Parliament TV

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/1d832424-61f6-4656-9363-fbf0a23c9683
  • Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    edited November 2021

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo under cross-examination, live on Parliament TV

    And on BBC
    He can’t deflect or dismiss them with bluster and humour, like he always tried at the GLA. So far they are forcing him to give serious answers to serious questions. Not a happy place for the clown.
  • Carnyx said:

    Was out over lunch, so have had to watch PMQs. A few thoughts:

    1. The Tories hated Bercow. I think Hoyle is about to stomp all over their view about "rules" in much the same way. There is now open warfare between the Treasury bench and the Speaker
    2. The Integrated Rail Plan tomorrow is going to unveil a pig without even the application of lipstick. The growing wailing and gnashing of northern MPs is going to amplifty massively
    3. The PM thinks the only defence against corruption is claim everyone is corrupt. Which means that he knows he has no hope of either clearing his own side of corruption or even covering it up. The game is clearly up.
    4. The Ian Blackford "Look at the Gaps! The rebellion has started" comment utterly deflated Johnson. Compare and contrast his demeanour and tone before and after.

    We can't even say its only one PMQs as this has been building for a while. Also listen to the questions asked - a long list of bad things and problems listed with nothing but waffle in response. There is a lot more than broken promises on rail that angry Tory voters can get fed up about.

    He's off to the liaison committee at 3pm. This could be required viewing...

    Very taken aback to see how aerated the Speaker got.
    I'm not. Johnson has been egregiously stepping over the line at LOTO's Questions for a while, combined with the further pisstaking over constantly briefing the media rather than the Commons. Its been blowing up for a while.

    Johnson needs to pin sleaze on everyone because he cannot either disprove there is Tory sleaze or even just cover it up. That is clear.
    Agree - the Speaker has had the patience of a saint - and when Johnson tried it on second and third times to run "Questions to the Leader of the Opposition" (not being quick enough on his feet to turn a question into a statement) Johnson deserved all he got.
  • Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    Contrite is probably the best look in a very bad situation to get to the other side of this stupid mess.

    When in a hole, stop digging.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Now Bryant.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    😦. Commentator put it down to tired from last race.
    Horse will know he’s beat though and be quite depressed 😞
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    Contrite is probably the best look in a very bad situation to get to the other side of this stupid mess.

    When in a hole, stop digging.
    Would anyone on this site - except for HYUFD be at all upset (or surprised) if Boris went?

    I seriously can't think of any other poster here who thinks Boris is a suitable or qualified person for the job of PM...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Bozo denying his fingerprints are on any of the calls for the standards commissioner to resign.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    2 questions.
    How long does this last?
    And is it worth watching?
  • Boris isn't very good is he...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    eek said:

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    Contrite is probably the best look in a very bad situation to get to the other side of this stupid mess.

    When in a hole, stop digging.
    Would anyone on this site - except for HYUFD be at all upset (or surprised) if Boris went?

    I seriously can't think of any other poster here who thinks Boris is a suitable or qualified person for the job of PM...
    But we've been lectured for years how wonderful he is - got Brexit done, won elections, etc. Bit late to deny the great saviour of Brexit even unto the third cockcrow.
  • That’ll be expensive:

    A British F35 pilot from HMS Queen Elizabeth ejected during routine flying operations in the Mediterranean this morning.

    The pilot has been safely returned to the ship and an investigation has begun, so it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.


    https://twitter.com/defencehqpress/status/1460987353410027530?s=21
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    The PM is answering questions on stuff he doesn’t really understand.

    Lovely question from Bryant: “do you think Paterson was guilty or not?”

    Answered with waffle and bluster from the clown.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo under cross-examination, live on Parliament TV

    And on BBC
    He can’t deflect or dismiss them with bluster and humour, like he always tried at the GLA. So far they are forcing him to give serious answers to serious questions. Not a happy place for the clown.
    In my opinion we are seeing Boris flailing around and it does look as if he is entering his latter days

    It is hard to watch at times

    Mind you it was said never underestimate Boris's ability to bounce back

    We will see
  • BoJo admits what many of said at the time, he was wrong to say Owen Paterson didn't have an appeal, he did indeed, there was an appeal process and Paterson used that appellate process.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    IanB2 said:

    The government is falling apart before our very eyes.

    Pending our Mr Thompson advising it’s all part of some cunning plan, obvs.

    The government needs a sense of renewal and the only way to do that is with a new leader.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited November 2021
    IanB2 said:

    The PM is answering questions on stuff he doesn’t really understand.

    Lovely question from Bryant: “do you think Paterson was guilty or not?”

    Answered with waffle and bluster from the clown.

    That really is a simple question to answer, now I've been shown all the evidence it's hard to disagree.

    Edit - changed to a phrase that allows vague deniability to remain in place.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Bozo confessing to a “mistake” in conflating the Paterson case with the issue of changing the rules. Playing the suicide of Paterson’s wife by way of mitigation.
  • Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    He does and sounds like he has a cold
  • Boris isn't very good is he...

    You've only just realised?

    He just cannot do detail or think on his feet.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    edited November 2021

    Smiling now. [edited for fairness]
  • Carnyx said:

    Was out over lunch, so have had to watch PMQs. A few thoughts:

    1. The Tories hated Bercow. I think Hoyle is about to stomp all over their view about "rules" in much the same way. There is now open warfare between the Treasury bench and the Speaker
    2. The Integrated Rail Plan tomorrow is going to unveil a pig without even the application of lipstick. The growing wailing and gnashing of northern MPs is going to amplifty massively
    3. The PM thinks the only defence against corruption is claim everyone is corrupt. Which means that he knows he has no hope of either clearing his own side of corruption or even covering it up. The game is clearly up.
    4. The Ian Blackford "Look at the Gaps! The rebellion has started" comment utterly deflated Johnson. Compare and contrast his demeanour and tone before and after.

    We can't even say its only one PMQs as this has been building for a while. Also listen to the questions asked - a long list of bad things and problems listed with nothing but waffle in response. There is a lot more than broken promises on rail that angry Tory voters can get fed up about.

    He's off to the liaison committee at 3pm. This could be required viewing...

    Very taken aback to see how aerated the Speaker got.
    I'm not. Johnson has been egregiously stepping over the line at LOTO's Questions for a while, combined with the further pisstaking over constantly briefing the media rather than the Commons. Its been blowing up for a while.

    Johnson needs to pin sleaze on everyone because he cannot either disprove there is Tory sleaze or even just cover it up. That is clear.
    Agree - the Speaker has had the patience of a saint - and when Johnson tried it on second and third times to run "Questions to the Leader of the Opposition" (not being quick enough on his feet to turn a question into a statement) Johnson deserved all he got.
    To respond both to yourself and @Carnyx whatever rum scheme the PM thought he had for managing PMQs today it was a catastrophic failure. He failed to smear Labour and the SNP with Tory sleaze. He got screamed at to SIT DOWN and be quiet by the Speaker telling him that he should follow the rules and not make allegations. He got pulled apart for the imminent scrapping of levelling up rail in the north with the final slap of a question asked from his own backbenches.

    It feels like the final rounds of a boxing match where the flamboyant champion has told the world his opponent is a fool, has strutted round the ring dodging punches in the early rounds, and has then been floored by a series of punches to the head.

    He's still standing. He's still pretending to be in charge with a strategy, but he's no longer all there and it only needs a smaller flurry to knock him down. And "Coward" combined with "the rebellion has started" do seem to have knocked all the fight out of him.

    This liaison committee is painful to watch. Calling him out with lie after lie - sorry, mistaken impression after mistaken impression. Thrown Kwasi Kwarteng under the bus as well - apparently it was all his idea to go on the Sunday media round demanding the head of the commissioner.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Bryant is landing blows that already have the clown on the ropes.

    His only response is to keep returning to the suicide of Paterson’s wife.
  • Boris isn't very good is he...

    You've only just realised?

    He just cannot do detail or think on his feet.
    Well it has been clear for some time. The issue is he doesn't have the background staff or further people which can make sure he can avoid problems and issues.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    DougSeal said:

    As for that Mischonduct joke, that was a gag when I was a callow student.

    I’m a practicing solicitor in London who has been interviewed at, acted against and done deals with Mischon de Reya since I qualified 20 years ago. Took me ages to get the joke. Admittedly that may be because I’m slow on the uptake - but surely that was too niche for the general public?
    Can you explain the joke? I don't get it.
  • IanB2 said:

    Bozo confessing to a “mistake” in conflating the Paterson case with the issue of changing the rules. Playing the suicide of Paterson’s wife by way of mitigation.

    I doubt its a play, it probably genuinely was a factor on why Paterson had so much sympathy from his own side.

    The PM seems quite apologetic in the exchange with Bryant which seems the right tone to strike.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Boris isn't very good is he...

    You've only just realised?

    He just cannot do detail or think on his feet.
    Has that last issue changed over the years - he most have been able to think on his feet at some point to get to where he is?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,394
    dixiedean said:

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Indeed. It is impossible to "lose", nor to find at the moment, something which never existed.
    Can't really argue with that.
    Slapdash amateurism. Would be up at a disciplinary in child protection PDQ. And you would need bloody good mitigation.
    Like a fare dodger making a theatrical show of searching in every pocket for a non-existent rail ticket.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Bozo: “in retrospect it was obvious that it was wrong to conflate the two things” [Paterson, and the rules]

    “Do we regret this - yes we do”
  • eek said:

    Boris isn't very good is he...

    You've only just realised?

    He just cannot do detail or think on his feet.
    Has that last issue changed over the years - he most have been able to think on his feet at some point to get to where he is?
    He's good at campaigning, now he's actually doing some governing which is where he is being caught out.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo confessing to a “mistake” in conflating the Paterson case with the issue of changing the rules. Playing the suicide of Paterson’s wife by way of mitigation.

    I doubt its a play, it probably genuinely was a factor on why Paterson had so much sympathy from his own side.

    The PM seems quite apologetic in the exchange with Bryant which seems the right tone to strike.

    Boris isn't very good is he...

    You've only just realised?

    He just cannot do detail or think on his feet.
    Well it has been clear for some time. The issue is he doesn't have the background staff or further people which can make sure he can avoid problems and issues.
    YOu mean he doesn't do his prep the evening before, surely. He's the PM!
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited November 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Bozo: “in retrospect it was obvious that it was wrong to conflate the two things” [Paterson, and the rules]

    “Do we regret this - yes we do”

    As I've asked before - what was so important and urgent that Paterson had to be used to try and change the rules?

    Oh to be clear, which of Boris's dodgy attempts to get money was so important and urgent that....
  • eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo: “in retrospect it was obvious that it was wrong to conflate the two things” [Paterson, and the rules]

    “Do we regret this - yes we do”

    As I've asked before - what was so important and urgent that Paterson had to be used to try and change the rules?
    Because Boris Johnson is likely to be up before the Standards Commissioner over his flat (and possibly other issues as well.)

    They needed to kneecap her well before that and the office as well.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    "This is an area where we need clarity".
    Good luck with that.
  • This format is so much better than PMQs- first, these are among the smartest MPs, second they follow up on his answers to previous questions.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    edited November 2021

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo confessing to a “mistake” in conflating the Paterson case with the issue of changing the rules. Playing the suicide of Paterson’s wife by way of mitigation.

    I doubt its a play, it probably genuinely was a factor on why Paterson had so much sympathy from his own side.

    The PM seems quite apologetic in the exchange with Bryant which seems the right tone to strike.
    It certainly made the whips’ job easier in twisting Tory backbenchers’ arms.

    I still don’t believe a wife would choose her husband’s birthday to commit suicide if her motivation was solely his mistreatment by others.

    Meanwhile Yvette manages to get Bozo to confess that he agrees that Paterson broke the rules.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,342
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    Contrite is probably the best look in a very bad situation to get to the other side of this stupid mess.

    When in a hole, stop digging.
    Would anyone on this site - except for HYUFD be at all upset (or surprised) if Boris went?

    I seriously can't think of any other poster here who thinks Boris is a suitable or qualified person for the job of PM...
    But we've been lectured for years how wonderful he is - got Brexit done, won elections, etc. Bit late to deny the great saviour of Brexit even unto the third cockcrow.
    Simple logical confusion here. The belief that Boris has been good at winning stuff, gaining support, campaigning and getting UK out of the EU is consistent with thinking it will, at some point, be time for a change.

    In most times Boris would never make it to PM. He did, and IMHO, the jury is out as to how much longer we can stand it.

  • Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    He does and sounds like he has a cold
    How odd - his tone and demeanour was completely different at the start of PMQs when he came out of his corner swinging.

    As Starmer said, he is a Coward. As Blackford said, his own side are abandoning him.
  • Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    As for that Mischonduct joke, that was a gag when I was a callow student.

    I’m a practicing solicitor in London who has been interviewed at, acted against and done deals with Mischon de Reya since I qualified 20 years ago. Took me ages to get the joke. Admittedly that may be because I’m slow on the uptake - but surely that was too niche for the general public?
    Can you explain the joke? I don't get it.
    Starmer did some work for Mishcon de Reya, so that's how we get Mishconduct 'joke'.
  • eek said:

    Boris isn't very good is he...

    You've only just realised?

    He just cannot do detail or think on his feet.
    Has that last issue changed over the years - he most have been able to think on his feet at some point to get to where he is?
    Why do you think he ducked the Andrew Neil interview in 2019?
  • This format is so much better than PMQs- first, these are among the smartest MPs, second they follow up on his answers to previous questions.

    Dave (pbuh) said this used to stress him more than a 100 PMQs.
  • PM v uncomfortable as @RhonddaBryant points out John Whittingdale was wrongly told there was cross-party agreement to rigged review.
    "So it would seem...I can’t comment on that conversation since I didn’t have it...It was put to me by colleagues."
    CWhip/Mogg thrown under bus?


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1460990789723504651?s=20
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    Yvette pushing on why, since he now concedes that Paterson broke the rules, he took the precise opposite stance earlier. “we need you to have some integrity; we need you to uphold the standards”
  • Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    As for that Mischonduct joke, that was a gag when I was a callow student.

    I’m a practicing solicitor in London who has been interviewed at, acted against and done deals with Mischon de Reya since I qualified 20 years ago. Took me ages to get the joke. Admittedly that may be because I’m slow on the uptake - but surely that was too niche for the general public?
    Can you explain the joke? I don't get it.
    Starmer did some work for Mishcon de Reya, so that's how we get Mishconduct 'joke'.
    Yeh, that'll have the Red Wallers laughing themselves stupid in the Duck and Whippet tonight.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    Boris isn't very good is he...

    You've only just realised?

    He just cannot do detail or think on his feet.
    Has that last issue changed over the years - he most have been able to think on his feet at some point to get to where he is?
    Why do you think he ducked the Andrew Neil interview in 2019?
    Anyone sane should duck an Andrew Neil interview, you were never going to win that battle
  • Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    He does and sounds like he has a cold
    How odd - his tone and demeanour was completely different at the start of PMQs when he came out of his corner swinging.

    As Starmer said, he is a Coward. As Blackford said, his own side are abandoning him.
    I do not see him as a coward but someone who has a need to be liked and frankly is unable to make difficult decisions that might be unpopular
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    Contrite is probably the best look in a very bad situation to get to the other side of this stupid mess.

    When in a hole, stop digging.
    Would anyone on this site - except for HYUFD be at all upset (or surprised) if Boris went?

    I seriously can't think of any other poster here who thinks Boris is a suitable or qualified person for the job of PM...
    But we've been lectured for years how wonderful he is - got Brexit done, won elections, etc. Bit late to deny the great saviour of Brexit even unto the third cockcrow.
    Simple logical confusion here. The belief that Boris has been good at winning stuff, gaining support, campaigning and getting UK out of the EU is consistent with thinking it will, at some point, be time for a change.

    In most times Boris would never make it to PM. He did, and IMHO, the jury is out as to how much longer we can stand it.

    Point taken, but I would respond that Brexit is an ongoing process (as we all know) and on that logic he should have been dumped a year and more ago.

    Anyway; not to worry you further on that - it looks as if matters are about to be overtaken by events.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    As for that Mischonduct joke, that was a gag when I was a callow student.

    I’m a practicing solicitor in London who has been interviewed at, acted against and done deals with Mischon de Reya since I qualified 20 years ago. Took me ages to get the joke. Admittedly that may be because I’m slow on the uptake - but surely that was too niche for the general public?
    Can you explain the joke? I don't get it.
    Starmer did some work for Mishcon de Reya, so that's how we get Mishconduct 'joke'.
    Yeh, that'll have the Red Wallers laughing themselves stupid in the Duck and Whippet tonight.
    There is an area of the Red Wall that has (and can afford) both Ducks and Whippets?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415


    😦. Commentator put it down to tired from last race.
    Horse will know he’s beat though and be quite depressed 😞

    🤔. Not much in distance, just lacking something in finish. Maybe plan was to go into finish with bigger lead to hold. But didn’t show some of the hurdles enough respect and allowed bunch to close.

    I haven’t had a winner at Hexham since my horse slipped on somebody’s picnic blowing about. 😦

    No excuses. Time to hug horse and thank him.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724

    This format is so much better than PMQs- first, these are among the smartest MPs, second they follow up on his answers to previous questions.

    Dave (pbuh) said this used to stress him more than a 100 PMQs.
    It’s a particularly cruel form of torture for the pm.

    It’s great
  • Johnson now claiming the lack of mask in Hexham was a mistake that lasted six seconds.


  • Boris Johnson keeps saying “fallen foul of the rules”, as if Owen Paterson had engaged in corrupt practices by accident.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1460992330073358337
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081
    edited November 2021
    Bozo now trying to blame “the house” for doing nothing about the standards committee’s recommendations back in 2018.

    And Yvette manages to slip in a crafty reference to not wearing a mask in Hexham hospital.

    Flusters the clown such that he replies to “Yvette”, then “Miss Cooper”, then he claims he only not wore a mask for “thirty seconds at most” - contradicting the testimony of those NHS managers who organised the tour and claim he was asked to wear a mask but refused.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    He does and sounds like he has a cold
    How odd - his tone and demeanour was completely different at the start of PMQs when he came out of his corner swinging.

    As Starmer said, he is a Coward. As Blackford said, his own side are abandoning him.
    I do not see him as a coward but someone who has a need to be liked and frankly is unable to make difficult decisions that might be unpopular
    Isn't that the same thing? Not brave enough to accept he needs to be unpopular.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770

    That’ll be expensive:

    A British F35 pilot from HMS Queen Elizabeth ejected during routine flying operations in the Mediterranean this morning.

    The pilot has been safely returned to the ship and an investigation has begun, so it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.


    https://twitter.com/defencehqpress/status/1460987353410027530?s=21

    That's 5% of British F35s at the bottom of the ocean.
  • IanB2 said:

    Yvette pushing on why, since he now concedes that Paterson broke the rules, he took the precise opposite stance earlier. “we need you to have some integrity; we need you to uphold the standards”

    Yvette is so much more mature then when I had dealings with her over HIPs
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    edited November 2021

    That’ll be expensive:

    A British F35 pilot from HMS Queen Elizabeth ejected during routine flying operations in the Mediterranean this morning.

    The pilot has been safely returned to the ship and an investigation has begun, so it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.


    https://twitter.com/defencehqpress/status/1460987353410027530?s=21

    It might help us reach a compromise with the Americans on the number of the planes that we will buy.
  • Johnson now claiming the lack of mask in Hexham was a mistake that lasted six seconds.

    Probably not the first time Boris Johnson has lasted six seconds.
  • eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Bozo: “in retrospect it was obvious that it was wrong to conflate the two things” [Paterson, and the rules]

    “Do we regret this - yes we do”

    As I've asked before - what was so important and urgent that Paterson had to be used to try and change the rules?
    Because Boris Johnson is likely to be up before the Standards Commissioner over his flat (and possibly other issues as well.)

    They needed to kneecap her well before that and the office as well.
    It has been clear for a while that the funding and cover-up of the funding of the wallpaper would sink him, not the wallpaper itself.

    Remember there was a previous PMQs where Johnson absolutely lost it at Starmer. Cameron-red face, shouting, wild gesticulation. Starmer had made it clear that he knew more than he was saying in public.

    We had all kinds of ludicrous attempts to deflect away from this. Its now back. The Electoral Commission has already submitted its report to Downing Street - not yet public. The commissioner has already said she is going for it, hence the purportedly "I didn't do it" attack on her by both trying to overturn her entire process and have her resigned.

    And then today. EVERYONE IS GUILTY he screams until Mr Speaker tells him to SIT DOWN and shut up.

    They are guilty as sin, they know it, and I think they have finally realised they can't hide any longer.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145
    rcs1000 said:

    That’ll be expensive:

    A British F35 pilot from HMS Queen Elizabeth ejected during routine flying operations in the Mediterranean this morning.

    The pilot has been safely returned to the ship and an investigation has begun, so it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.


    https://twitter.com/defencehqpress/status/1460987353410027530?s=21

    That's 5% of British F35s at the bottom of the ocean.
    Wonder who will be along soon with a nice submersible?
  • NEW : The Prince of Wales has told me the Queen is “alright” but added “once you get to 95, it's not quite as easy as it used to be”. Speaking about his thoughts following COP26 he also told me “the problem is we cannot go on mucking about any longer…the urgency…is so great.”

    https://twitter.com/SkyRhiannon/status/1460986232394108935
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,081

    IanB2 said:

    Yvette pushing on why, since he now concedes that Paterson broke the rules, he took the precise opposite stance earlier. “we need you to have some integrity; we need you to uphold the standards”

    Yvette is so much more mature then when I had dealings with her over HIPs
    In the UK politicians put themselves forward for leadership too early and in the US, too late.

    Discuss.
  • Hmm, I remember some PBers saying the PM didn't break the rules.

    On his visit to Hexham hospital Boris Johnson claims that “there was barely 30 seconds when I wasn’t wearing a mask… and I apologised for it.”

    Until this moment Downing Street has not even admitted that he broke the rules.


    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1460993252237234182
  • Johnson now claiming the lack of mask in Hexham was a mistake that lasted six seconds.

    So why then did the "I'm the" Deputy Prime Minister get sent out to do the media round insisting the PM had followed the rules.

    He wouldn't have to sit there looking his usual gormless saying "he followed the rules" as they repeat the clip proving he didn't" had as he just claimed he had only taken it off for 5 seconds and had realised it was a mistake.

    Another lie.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Hmm, I remember some PBers saying the PM didn't break the rules.

    On his visit to Hexham hospital Boris Johnson claims that “there was barely 30 seconds when I wasn’t wearing a mask… and I apologised for it.”

    Until this moment Downing Street has not even admitted that he broke the rules.


    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1460993252237234182

    Well, exactly - that was only a few days ago and Mr J couldn't be enough of a hero for quite a few PBers.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    edited November 2021
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yvette pushing on why, since he now concedes that Paterson broke the rules, he took the precise opposite stance earlier. “we need you to have some integrity; we need you to uphold the standards”

    Yvette is so much more mature then when I had dealings with her over HIPs
    In the UK politicians put themselves forward for leadership too early and in the US, too late.

    Discuss.
    With the exception of the incumbent PM. Who was neither too early nor too late.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Hmm, I remember some PBers saying the PM didn't break the rules.

    On his visit to Hexham hospital Boris Johnson claims that “there was barely 30 seconds when I wasn’t wearing a mask… and I apologised for it.”

    Until this moment Downing Street has not even admitted that he broke the rules.


    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1460993252237234182

    Is it a crime to wilfully mislead the house?
  • eek said:

    Hmm, I remember some PBers saying the PM didn't break the rules.

    On his visit to Hexham hospital Boris Johnson claims that “there was barely 30 seconds when I wasn’t wearing a mask… and I apologised for it.”

    Until this moment Downing Street has not even admitted that he broke the rules.


    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1460993252237234182

    Is it a crime to wilfully mislead the house?
    Well it is a resigning matter. Or used to be.
  • eek said:

    Hmm, I remember some PBers saying the PM didn't break the rules.

    On his visit to Hexham hospital Boris Johnson claims that “there was barely 30 seconds when I wasn’t wearing a mask… and I apologised for it.”

    Until this moment Downing Street has not even admitted that he broke the rules.


    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1460993252237234182

    Is it a crime to wilfully mislead the house?
    Yes. As Mr Speaker has repeatedly told the treasury bench.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    eek said:

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    Contrite is probably the best look in a very bad situation to get to the other side of this stupid mess.

    When in a hole, stop digging.
    Would anyone on this site - except for HYUFD be at all upset (or surprised) if Boris went?

    I seriously can't think of any other poster here who thinks Boris is a suitable or qualified person for the job of PM...
    I wouldn't say he is either suitable or qualifed by historical standards, but I would say that he remains the appropriate person to lead the Conservative Party. In the run up and aftermath to Brexit he has embarked on a particular path, and remains the only person in the Conservative Party with the political skills to negotiate the various big intractable problems that follow from it. I also think that, in the end, he is the only person who can brush off this sleaze thing, because there is always sleaze and rule bending everywhere you go digging in public life, any supposed quest for purity in public life will ultimately be little more than a performance for the public who, in the end, aren't particularly gullible.


  • Julia Hartley-Brewer
    @JuliaHB1
    ·
    49m
    BREAKING: The end of elite women's sport has just been announced.

    Transgender athletes should not have to lower testosterone to compete, IOC says as it changes guidelines
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    On cyberflashing.
    "If you can draft something that captures it, let's have a look at it!"
    Urk! Urk!
  • Johnson now claiming the lack of mask in Hexham was a mistake that lasted six seconds.

    So why then did the "I'm the" Deputy Prime Minister get sent out to do the media round insisting the PM had followed the rules.

    He wouldn't have to sit there looking his usual gormless saying "he followed the rules" as they repeat the clip proving he didn't" had as he just claimed he had only taken it off for 5 seconds and had realised it was a mistake.

    Another lie.
    The lies are coming faster by the day. Eventually they will collide into one big enormous mess and he'll be done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571
    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    The debate on the Randox contracts in the HoC doesn’t sound like it’s going very well for the government.

    Indeed. This is not good.

    "A government Minister just confirmed in Parliament that there are no minutes to the meeting(s) that took place between Lord Bethell, Owen Paterson and Randox as part of Randox being awarded £600 million of contracts without any kind of tender or any process."...
    A mere £600m ?
    Barely worth a Post-It.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited November 2021
    darkage said:

    eek said:

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Bullshit. "I have been unable to locate the formal minutes" means there are no minutes. Now then, let us ask why that might be the case...

    Liaison committee coming up. Get your popcorn ready.
    Many many years ago I was involved in a mediation where transcripts of board meetings were required from the other side.

    They sent everything we needed except the board meeting transcripts, we had to pester and pester them, their replies followed as such

    1) We cannot find said minutes

    then

    2) We cannot still find said minutes

    then

    3) We have found said minutes, but only in a digital format, however it is password protected and the person who created the password no longer works for us, and we cannot locate them.

    (We then asked the courts to compel them to name that employee)

    4) Oh, we've remembered the password, here's the file emailed to you.

    We took a look at the word file (helpfully they had left track changes on) and it was clear this file was created fewer than 48 hours ago and then kept on adding things to it.
    Yep. I've suspected for a few weeks now that this could sink Johnson and I'm increasingly confident this will now happen.

    His liaison committee is already not going well. "We will need more of your time Prime Minister" responded to with such a look of utter panic that the chair suggested "you can give short answers". And then straight into "is it not a conflict of interest that you are the ultimate arbiter for the ministerial code."

    He looks contrite and weary.

    Contrite is probably the best look in a very bad situation to get to the other side of this stupid mess.

    When in a hole, stop digging.
    Would anyone on this site - except for HYUFD be at all upset (or surprised) if Boris went?

    I seriously can't think of any other poster here who thinks Boris is a suitable or qualified person for the job of PM...
    I wouldn't say he is either suitable or qualifed by historical standards, but I would say that he remains the appropriate person to lead the Conservative Party. In the run up and aftermath to Brexit he has embarked on a particular path, and remains the only person in the Conservative Party with the political skills to negotiate the various big intractable problems that follow from it. I also think that, in the end, he is the only person who can brush off this sleaze thing, because there is always sleaze and rule bending everywhere you go digging in public life, any supposed quest for purity in public life will ultimately be little more than a performance for the public who, in the end, aren't particularly gullible.


    Political skills to negotiate big intractable problems ?

    No - animal skill and cunning to please people from day to day. This is something which eventually catches up with you without longer-term or strategic foresight, and which is exactly what has happened in the wake of the Paterson affair, from its beginning to now.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    That’ll be expensive:

    A British F35 pilot from HMS Queen Elizabeth ejected during routine flying operations in the Mediterranean this morning.

    The pilot has been safely returned to the ship and an investigation has begun, so it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.


    https://twitter.com/defencehqpress/status/1460987353410027530?s=21

    That's 5% of British F35s at the bottom of the ocean.
    Wonder who will be along soon with a nice submersible?
    The Hunt For The British F35

    Could be a film in that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,571

    Helpful update from @PA: "The Government sought to clarify that it has not lost the minutes of a meeting between Randox and a health minister, only that it cannot find them at the moment."

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1460983127153823746

    Does that mean some poor bugger is trying to make them up from scratch ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    darkage said:

    I would say that he remains the appropriate person to lead the Conservative Party. In the run up and aftermath to Brexit he has embarked on a particular path, and remains the only person in the Conservative Party with the political skills to negotiate the various big intractable problems that follow from it.

    Except he can't.

    His solution to "no border in Ireland" is a border in the Irish Sea.

    Since that is a shitshow, his solution to "a border in the Irish Sea" is to put a border in Ireland.

    Brexit is, as you said, intractable...
This discussion has been closed.