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In terms of dates the ComRes LAB 6% lead poll is still the latest – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,951
    It looks as though Russia performed an anti-satellite test against one of their old satellites this morning. It's created loads of debris in low Earth orbits.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273
    edited November 2021
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    The eM180? Half an hour in and a truck pulls the wires down. After the repair them the same happens. And again again. etc.

    Hydrogen for trucks.
    You might well be right about that, but we'll see. HS2E is solving yesterday's problems tomorrow.
    Is it?

    AFAICS both legs extended to at least Glasgow / Edinburgh are the best option we have of getting people out of their aeroplanes.

    (Except Mr Shapps, who will have more time to spend with his imminently, perhaps.)

    Interesting that Ben Bradley's chosen stat was that travel time Nottingham to Birmingham would be reduced from 72 to 27 minutes.
    You can virtually travel by rail to central Edinburgh in the same time it takes overall by plane
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,500
    edited November 2021

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    That NE timing is I think based on HS2 not going full steam to Newcastle.

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    The eM180? Half an hour in and a truck pulls the wires down. After the repair them the same happens. And again again. etc.

    Hydrogen for trucks.
    You might well be right about that, but we'll see. HS2E is solving yesterday's problems tomorrow.
    Is it?

    AFAICS both legs extended to at least Glasgow / Edinburgh are the best option we have of getting people out of their aeroplanes.

    (Except Mr Shapps, who will have more time to spend with his imminently, perhaps.)

    Interesting that Ben Bradley's chosen stat was that travel time Nottingham to Birmingham would be reduced from 72 to 27 minutes.
    You can virtually travel by rail to central Edinburgh in the same time it takes by overall by plane
    So once its an hour quicker...

  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    I don't know about CNN International, but the domestic version is not a news outlet at all: it is an undisguised, unapologetic, 24/7 leftwing OpEd. Never, ever expect it to provide news.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,916
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Whichever side wins, the loser is the remaining credibility of the American justice system.
    The US justice system seems so alien as an outsider - we like to think we are so similar, magna carta didn’t die in vain and all that. Then you watch just for example two true crime docs on Channel 4:

    24 hours in police custody and a US one called “the first 48”.

    The difference in policing styles, investigation techniques, interviewing style, interviewing regulations, legal representation, level of evidence required and sentencing is just two different planets.

    Literally watching a guy with clear mental health issues being interviewed who has killed a few homeless people in the US being chatted to by the detective and going through what happened being led on by the detective etc. He clearly did it but their is absolutely no rigour or checks and balances - as a layman I’m certain most of these cases would get thrown out of court if approached the same way in the UK.

    I think it’s easy for us to do the UK down but even compared to European police and prosecutorial approaches yet alone the US we are v lucky.

    So the long and the short of it is that nothing should surprise us with the US justice system but it’s very surprising…..
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,500
    edited November 2021
    Hmmmm. Bit of a Reverse Ferret on the Shambles terrorism barrier shambles.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-59289757
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,143
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    That NE timing is I think based on HS2 not going full steam to Newcastle.
    It was still a 20 - 25 minutes faster journey but the track would have gone from Leeds towards York. The HS2 trains would have travelled on the standard track at standard speeds until they hit the upgraded track

    The cancellation of the east leg will be a disappointment to Hitachi, or whoever gets the rolling stock contract, as well.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273
    edited November 2021
    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,143

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Rochdale is right, Hydrogen for trucks.
  • Options
    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Hang on. He orders acquittal cos he doesn't like the law?
    Presumably on the grounds of constitutionality?
    Surely that's not for him to decide? Is it?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited November 2021

    Right, I'm going balls deep on the Tories losing Old Bexley & Sidcup.

    The Bexley by-election candidate says he might just keep his job as a Mayfair-based fund manager if he gets elected because, don't worry, he's not a "career politician"

    https://twitter.com/Tony_Diver/status/1460302579427119109

    After a few phonecalls from CCHQ, seems the Tory candidate has clarified the situation.

    Louie French subsequently provided the following quote: "When I referred to having to have a conversation with my current employer if I were lucky enough to be elected, that would be on leaving my current job.

    "To be absolutely clear, if elected as MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup I would step down from my job and not have any second jobs”.
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/19715368.johnson-defends-second-jobs-old-bexley-sidcup-visit/
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,847
    Evening all :)

    Counting almost finished in the Bulgarian General Election 3 (this time it's also presidential).

    In the legislative elections, the current numbers as follows (99.52% counted):

    PP (We Continue the Change): 25.65% (+25.65) 66 seats (+66)
    GERB-SDS: 22.80% (-0.41) 58 seats (-5)
    DPS (Rights & Freedoms): 12.92% (+2.21) 36 seats (+7)
    BSP: (Bulgarian Socialists) 10.26% (-2.96) 27 seats (-9)
    ITN: (There is Such a Nation) 9.52% (-14.26) 25 seats (-40)
    DB: (Democratic Bulgaria): 6.34% (-6.14) 15 seats (-19)
    Revival: 4.86% (+1.89%) 13 seats (+13)

    The Stand Up Bulgaria! anti-corruption party lost all its parliamentary seats (13) as it fell below the 4% threshold.

    121 seats are needed for a majority so PP are more than halfway there and with Democratic Bulgaria already signed up are two thirds of the way. They will however need two of DPS, BSP and ITN to seal the deal and shut down both Borisov and Revival.

    The view in Bulgaria is DPS and BSP will come to the party and join the new coalition.

    In the presidential election, Ruman Radev got 49.45% with Anastas Gerdzhikov on 22.85% and the DPS candidate Iskra Mihaylova on 11.51%. This forces Radev into a second round this coming Saturday but you'd think he'd be a certain winner.

    Let's just hope this brings an end to the current political stalemate - Borisov and Trifonov are the big losers and it remains to be seen if the centre-right GERB-SDS alliance will continue in its current form and whether there will be any moves to replace Borisov with a new opposition leader.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    Lead now at 1% down from 6%

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Labour Lead in our GB Voting Intention for the Second Time This Year.

    Full results (15 Nov):

    Labour 37% (-1)
    Conservative 36% (-)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-)
    Reform UK 4% (+1)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 10 Nov

    Different pollsters, though? The 6 point lead was ComRes.

    Sir Keir ahead on net satisfaction now, -9 playing Boris’s -10, though Boris still leads on Gross Positives, 35 to 26, which I think is the more important metric
    My apologies I got that wrong


    However this part really stands out

    Pluralities of respondents say they do not know which of the two ‘tells the truth’ (46%), ‘is creative’ (43%), ‘prioritises the environment’ (40%), or ‘has the better foreign policy strategy’ (40%).

    46% do not know which of the two tells the truth !!!!!!!
    It takes a big man to apologise
    They don't call him BigG for nothing.

    Ahem.
    How do we know he isn’t just sitting in a particularly small chair?
    Believe you me at 17.5 stone and 6'1, I do not sit in a small chair

    I have been this size and weight most my adult life

    And yes, I do apologise when I am wrong
    Actually not to overlook it is five red field polls in a row giving Libdems 10.

    Also although it’s news now, the down curve in Conservative support actually started in June. The upward curve of Lib Dem’s began in June. The upward curve for Labour began in May.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Unpopular said:

    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Hang on. He orders acquittal cos he doesn't like the law?
    Presumably on the grounds of constitutionality?
    Surely that's not for him to decide? Is it?
    Pretty good chance he actually ordered acquittal on a procedural basis and then offered some thoughts along the way which the papers have chosen to present in an unflattering light
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Unpopular said:

    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Hang on. He orders acquittal cos he doesn't like the law?
    Presumably on the grounds of constitutionality?
    Surely that's not for him to decide? Is it?
    AIUI a judge can order a not guilty verdict for any reason. Certainly when I was doing my PhD I came across cases of judges dismissing cases because they wanted to cover up crimes by their social set, usually on ridiculous grounds.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,847
    HYUFD said:

    Right, I'm going balls deep on the Tories losing Old Bexley & Sidcup.

    The Bexley by-election candidate says he might just keep his job as a Mayfair-based fund manager if he gets elected because, don't worry, he's not a "career politician"

    https://twitter.com/Tony_Diver/status/1460302579427119109

    After a few phonecalls from CCHQ, seems the Tory candidate has clarified the situation.

    Louie French subsequently provided the following quote: "When I referred to having to have a conversation with my current employer if I were lucky enough to be elected, that would be on leaving my current job.

    "To be absolutely clear, if elected as MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup I would step down from my job and not have any second jobs”.
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/19715368.johnson-defends-second-jobs-old-bexley-sidcup-visit/
    It may be clear now but it's a gaffe albeit a minor one. In the current febrile atmosphere, an exaggerated and emphatic initial response was required. To paraphrase a popular maxim, if you're clarifying you're losing.
  • Options
    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273
    edited November 2021

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    Lead now at 1% down from 6%

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Labour Lead in our GB Voting Intention for the Second Time This Year.

    Full results (15 Nov):

    Labour 37% (-1)
    Conservative 36% (-)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-)
    Reform UK 4% (+1)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 10 Nov

    Different pollsters, though? The 6 point lead was ComRes.

    Sir Keir ahead on net satisfaction now, -9 playing Boris’s -10, though Boris still leads on Gross Positives, 35 to 26, which I think is the more important metric
    My apologies I got that wrong


    However this part really stands out

    Pluralities of respondents say they do not know which of the two ‘tells the truth’ (46%), ‘is creative’ (43%), ‘prioritises the environment’ (40%), or ‘has the better foreign policy strategy’ (40%).

    46% do not know which of the two tells the truth !!!!!!!
    It takes a big man to apologise
    They don't call him BigG for nothing.

    Ahem.
    How do we know he isn’t just sitting in a particularly small chair?
    Believe you me at 17.5 stone and 6'1, I do not sit in a small chair

    I have been this size and weight most my adult life

    And yes, I do apologise when I am wrong
    Actually not to overlook it is five red field polls in a row giving Libdems 10.

    Also although it’s news now, the down curve in Conservative support actually started in June. The upward curve of Lib Dem’s began in June. The upward curve for Labour began in May.
    To be honest I know many follow polling with a keen interest, but the only relevant polling for GE23/24 is a long way away

    A week is a long time in politics and HMG has just learnt that to their cost
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    No extra trains will run to Leeds without HS2, as there will be no platform capacity for them.

    East Midlands Parkway would be worse than useless as a compromise, which I suspect is why it's being proposed. There are a number of highly paid civil servants who prefer road and air travel to rail, and want HS2 scrapped entirely as it torpedoes the latter in particular.

    And yes, somebody will build it because there isn't much choice if we want more capacity, but the delay will add several billion on to the price tag. It might even push it up to that fraudulent figure of £106 billion.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    northern Tory MP:

    “this is going to drive colleagues in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the North East absolutely bananas…they can’t just rip cash out like this. It’s tone deaf as well as politically dumb”


    https://www.ft.com/content/1b32c2db-12de-41d8-89c0-8a454fec378a
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Scott_xP said:

    northern Tory MP:

    “this is going to drive colleagues in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the North East absolutely bananas…they can’t just rip cash out like this. It’s tone deaf as well as politically dumb”


    https://www.ft.com/content/1b32c2db-12de-41d8-89c0-8a454fec378a

    It's Grant Shapps and Boris Johnson.

    What does anyone expect?
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    northern Tory MP:

    “this is going to drive colleagues in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the North East absolutely bananas…they can’t just rip cash out like this. It’s tone deaf as well as politically dumb”


    https://www.ft.com/content/1b32c2db-12de-41d8-89c0-8a454fec378a

    North East newspapers are going for the jugular, as they have been for a couple of weeks tbh. They have been the conduit for the Tories to highlight all Labour's failings and talk up what they are going to do. Now the Tories are in, as hypocrisy and missed promises pile up they are almost gleefully poking it with a stick saying "this is shit"
  • Options
    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited November 2021
    NEW: Nowcast Model + Interactive Map: Starmer would be PM with SNP confidence and supply but the Tories would still be largest party in a hung parliament.

    Current Projection:
    CON: 285 (-80)
    LAB: 271 (+69)
    SNP: 57 (+9)
    LDM: 12 (+1)
    PLC: 5 (+1)
    GRN: 1 (=)

    Changes w/ GE2019.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1460342812994641920?s=20
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    The Tories are not -quite - yet up there with William the Bastard and Henry VIII, but it can't be long.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    It won't. That's the core of the problem.

    And as I noted above, without HS2 to increase capacity there's no meaningful way of increasing services or reopening old lines elsewhere anyway.

    About the only good thing on offer is that they would finally electrify the Midland Main Line, but that was scheduled anyway before DfT made numerous false economies including that one.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Carnyx said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    The Tories are not -quite - yet up there with William the Bastard and Henry VIII, but it can't be long.
    They have a short period of Grace, where they can Aske for forgiveness.

    Or change what passes for their minds.
  • Options

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    It won't. That's the core of the problem.

    And as I noted above, without HS2 to increase capacity there's no meaningful way of increasing services or reopening old lines elsewhere anyway.

    About the only good thing on offer is that they would finally electrify the Midland Main Line, but that was scheduled anyway before DfT made numerous false economies including that one.
    To be fair it is not a subject I have knowledge of, but if the outcry from conservative mps is added to the Paterson debacle then maybe it is time for them to indulge in letter writing
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    It won't. That's the core of the problem.

    And as I noted above, without HS2 to increase capacity there's no meaningful way of increasing services or reopening old lines elsewhere anyway.

    About the only good thing on offer is that they would finally electrify the Midland Main Line, but that was scheduled anyway before DfT made numerous false economies including that one.
    To be fair it is not a subject I have knowledge of, but if the outcry from conservative mps is added to the Paterson debacle then maybe it is time for them to indulge in letter writing
    Let's hope so.

    Although if Shapps is out by the end of the week anyway, as seems probable, the decision may be revisited anyway.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    Again, since it couldn't possibly have been built without HS2's eastern leg that's hardly surprising.
  • Options
    The FT visual we all want to see...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    NEW:
    @UKHSA
    study finds Pfizer booster is extremely effective against symptomatic infection, both compared to the unvaccinated and to those with 2 doses https://ft.com/content/8330da6c-031d-4613-8f55-5b0269eaac00

    Whether first 2 doses were AZ or Pfizer, a Pfizer booster sends vaccine efficacy up to 93-94%

  • Options

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    I do not know sufficient to really argue the subject but if conservative mps are annoyed then maybe time for them to take action
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    Just rebranded as Northern Pisstake Rail.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    Just rebranded as Northern Pisstake Rail.
    That's a good suggestion. Urine with a chance of getting that through.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    It won't. That's the core of the problem.

    And as I noted above, without HS2 to increase capacity there's no meaningful way of increasing services or reopening old lines elsewhere anyway.

    About the only good thing on offer is that they would finally electrify the Midland Main Line, but that was scheduled anyway before DfT made numerous false economies including that one.
    To be fair it is not a subject I have knowledge of, but if the outcry from conservative mps is added to the Paterson debacle then maybe it is time for them to indulge in letter writing
    Let's hope so.

    Although if Shapps is out by the end of the week anyway, as seems probable, the decision may be revisited anyway.
    For the flying thing?
  • Options
    In avoidance of any doubt, this is Deep Shit for the Tories


  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    Just rebranded as Northern Pisstake Rail.
    That's a good suggestion. Urine with a chance of getting that through.
    The golden Boris dividend.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192
    edited November 2021
    Frankly "Deliver What You Promised" could be the 4 words to sink Liar.

    He can't. He won't. But he does seem to get away with people being persuaded that either it was never promised, or has been delivered. Perhaps this is the end of that.

    "A new Trans-Pennine rail route between Manchester and Leeds will be confirmed today," said a Downing Street press notice issued ahead of Boris Johnson's 2019 speech at Manchester's Museum of Science and Industry. The press release promised 'new inter-city rail routes', 'with Manchester to Leeds as the first step'."
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    MANCHESTER EVENING NEWS - and an alliance of Northern papers: Trainspotting #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1460347500209086465/photo/1
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,847

    The FT visual we all want to see...

    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    NEW:
    @UKHSA
    study finds Pfizer booster is extremely effective against symptomatic infection, both compared to the unvaccinated and to those with 2 doses https://ft.com/content/8330da6c-031d-4613-8f55-5b0269eaac00

    Whether first 2 doses were AZ or Pfizer, a Pfizer booster sends vaccine efficacy up to 93-94%

    Indeed and it's the strongest argument not only for the booster vaccination but for providing it to everyone.

    There is the question of longevity of immunity but time will tell - it usually does.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,143

    In avoidance of any doubt, this is Deep Shit for the Tories


    It’s potentially very toxic. Depends on what labour does next. Do they commit to it or not.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767

    In avoidance of any doubt, this is Deep Shit for the Tories


    The slippery slope is named Paterson.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,049
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    I don't know about CNN International, but the domestic version is not a news outlet at all: it is an undisguised, unapologetic, 24/7 leftwing OpEd. Never, ever expect it to provide news.
    I have now realised this

    CNN: "sexual conduct with a minor"

    Reality: "Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal"
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    It won't. That's the core of the problem.

    And as I noted above, without HS2 to increase capacity there's no meaningful way of increasing services or reopening old lines elsewhere anyway.

    About the only good thing on offer is that they would finally electrify the Midland Main Line, but that was scheduled anyway before DfT made numerous false economies including that one.
    To be fair it is not a subject I have knowledge of, but if the outcry from conservative mps is added to the Paterson debacle then maybe it is time for them to indulge in letter writing
    Let's hope so.

    Although if Shapps is out by the end of the week anyway, as seems probable, the decision may be revisited anyway.
    For the flying thing?
    Well, it's more a crash than flying, but yes. That actually looks a lot more serious than the media attention it's had so far would suggest.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Omnium said:

    In avoidance of any doubt, this is Deep Shit for the Tories


    The slippery slope is named Paterson.
    It lost them benefit of the doubt.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    I understand from multiple sources that the Tory candidate from Birmingham won’t do any media interviews for a week because he ‘needs to learn about the constituency’.
    It appears the Tories are doing their best to lose #NorthShropshire to the @LibDems

    https://twitter.com/MatthewGreen02/status/1460346523347267585
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672
    edited November 2021
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    I find it unbelievable that the wires haven't bene ripped down, given how cavalier UK and US truckies are with height restrictions -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWTY2Pi1uKA and 11foot8.com
    https://twitter.com/lichfieldbridge

    The best story was the truckie who loaded a JCB, measured it carefully, then went off for a cuppa char and a wad before setting off. Not realising someone had come along, decied he wanted the block of wood under the bucket, raised the JCB's arm to get the wood, and gone off with the wood without lowering it ...
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    Again, since it couldn't possibly have been built without HS2's eastern leg that's hardly surprising.
    But they are *building* HS2E and the new High Speed station at Leeds. OK so the line ends after 25 miles, but they are building it.

    This is what makes this just a clusterfuck. "We've had to cancel HS2E so sadly that means a scaling back of NPR" would be spinnable. "We're building the relevant bit of HS2E so there's no excuse not to build NPR but fuck you plebs" is much harder to spin.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,143

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    Again, since it couldn't possibly have been built without HS2's eastern leg that's hardly surprising.
    But they are *building* HS2E and the new High Speed station at Leeds. OK so the line ends after 25 miles, but they are building it.

    This is what makes this just a clusterfuck. "We've had to cancel HS2E so sadly that means a scaling back of NPR" would be spinnable. "We're building the relevant bit of HS2E so there's no excuse not to build NPR but fuck you plebs" is much harder to spin.
    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19718674.anger-expected-backtrack-north-rail-improvements/
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    No extra trains will run to Leeds without HS2, as there will be no platform capacity for them.

    East Midlands Parkway would be worse than useless as a compromise, which I suspect is why it's being proposed. There are a number of highly paid civil servants who prefer road and air travel to rail, and want HS2 scrapped entirely as it torpedoes the latter in particular.

    And yes, somebody will build it because there isn't much choice if we want more capacity, but the delay will add several billion on to the price tag. It might even push it up to that fraudulent figure of £106 billion.
    East Midlands Parkway is f*cking joke. They are just trolling us now to see how shit they can be before the Red Wallers finally notice and realise they've been had.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    I don't know about CNN International, but the domestic version is not a news outlet at all: it is an undisguised, unapologetic, 24/7 leftwing OpEd. Never, ever expect it to provide news.
    I have now realised this

    CNN: "sexual conduct with a minor"

    Reality: "Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal"
    Yes, but so what? It's like Frank Drebin killing his 1000th drug dealer by reversing over him, and luckily he turns to be a drug dealer afterwards.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171

    The FT visual we all want to see...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    NEW:
    @UKHSA
    study finds Pfizer booster is extremely effective against symptomatic infection, both compared to the unvaccinated and to those with 2 doses https://ft.com/content/8330da6c-031d-4613-8f55-5b0269eaac00

    Whether first 2 doses were AZ or Pfizer, a Pfizer booster sends vaccine efficacy up to 93-94%

    Bloody hope so after the reaction I got to it!
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    MANCHESTER EVENING NEWS - and an alliance of Northern papers: Trainspotting #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1460347500209086465/photo/1

    Bit late aren't you?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672

    The FT visual we all want to see...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    NEW:
    @UKHSA
    study finds Pfizer booster is extremely effective against symptomatic infection, both compared to the unvaccinated and to those with 2 doses https://ft.com/content/8330da6c-031d-4613-8f55-5b0269eaac00

    Whether first 2 doses were AZ or Pfizer, a Pfizer booster sends vaccine efficacy up to 93-94%

    How long does it take after the vaccination (booster), please? Paywalled. But boosted 10 days ago so of real interest ...
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,139
    edited November 2021

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    If any Government had the political will and wit, HS2E could be financed by any number of buy now, pay next century schemes.

    TBF to Johnson this doesn't look like something he would have cancelled, he is normally of the opinion jam today, debt called in long after his own and the voters' aged demise.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,287
    edited November 2021
    Big Picture Question:

    After the Budget, everyone said Rishi had let spending rip, highest public spending for goodness knows how many years etc.

    Yet, Govt broke triple lock for this year, went ahead with £20 UC reversal, rejected vast majority of Education catch-up tsar's demands and now not going ahead with part of HS2.

    OK, the above are maybe not huge individually but how do we reconcile this?

    ie What IS the Govt going to be spending record amounts on? (And it's not Covid, we are talking day to day spending in future years).

    Would be interested in mature, rounded, intelligent explanation - not partisan knockabout banter.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    Carnyx said:

    The FT visual we all want to see...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    NEW:
    @UKHSA
    study finds Pfizer booster is extremely effective against symptomatic infection, both compared to the unvaccinated and to those with 2 doses https://ft.com/content/8330da6c-031d-4613-8f55-5b0269eaac00

    Whether first 2 doses were AZ or Pfizer, a Pfizer booster sends vaccine efficacy up to 93-94%

    How long does it take after the vaccination (booster), please? Paywalled. But boosted 10 days ago so of real interest ...
    About two weeks to be sure. But you had a decent level anyway. All good news.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    The Integrated Rail Review is coming on Thursday - just the latest of Boris Johnson's headaches: will he deliver his 'levelling up' agenda to the north of England?
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1460349647751467010
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    Again, since it couldn't possibly have been built without HS2's eastern leg that's hardly surprising.
    But they are *building* HS2E and the new High Speed station at Leeds. OK so the line ends after 25 miles, but they are building it.

    This is what makes this just a clusterfuck. "We've had to cancel HS2E so sadly that means a scaling back of NPR" would be spinnable. "We're building the relevant bit of HS2E so there's no excuse not to build NPR but fuck you plebs" is much harder to spin.
    That isn't going to help much with the 60 miles of non-HS track still causing massive congestion. In fact by backing trains up it may make things worse.

    You're right though about the sheer incompetence of the messaging.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672
    edited November 2021

    Carnyx said:

    The FT visual we all want to see...


    John Burn-Murdoch
    @jburnmurdoch
    ·
    2h
    NEW:
    @UKHSA
    study finds Pfizer booster is extremely effective against symptomatic infection, both compared to the unvaccinated and to those with 2 doses https://ft.com/content/8330da6c-031d-4613-8f55-5b0269eaac00

    Whether first 2 doses were AZ or Pfizer, a Pfizer booster sends vaccine efficacy up to 93-94%

    How long does it take after the vaccination (booster), please? Paywalled. But boosted 10 days ago so of real interest ...
    About two weeks to be sure. But you had a decent level anyway. All good news.
    THank you. Indeed, even if it was AZ to begin with? Anyway, excellent now.
  • Options
    MikeL said:

    Big Picture Question:

    After the Budget, everyone said Rishi had let spending rip, highest public spending for goodness knows how many years etc.

    Yet, Govt broke triple lock for this year, went ahead with £20 UC reversal, rejected vast majority of Education catch-up tsar's demands and now not going ahead with part of HS2.

    OK, the above are maybe not huge individually but how do we reconcile this?

    ie What IS the Govt going to be spending record amounts on? (And it's not Covid, we are talking day to day spending in future years).

    Would be interested in mature, rounded, intelligent explanation - not partisan knockabout banter.

    The NHS.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Outrageous. We've gone 5 minutes of the second half against San Marino, and no goals. Time for Southgate to pack his bags ...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,049
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    I don't know about CNN International, but the domestic version is not a news outlet at all: it is an undisguised, unapologetic, 24/7 leftwing OpEd. Never, ever expect it to provide news.
    I have now realised this

    CNN: "sexual conduct with a minor"

    Reality: "Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal"
    Yes, but so what? It's like Frank Drebin killing his 1000th drug dealer by reversing over him, and luckily he turns to be a drug dealer afterwards.
    Well it does speak to Rosenbaum's likeliness to be an aggressive psycho who you might feel a need to shoot if he comes at you

    And, oh, look, turns out Rosenbaum is an aggressive racist psycho... "shoot me n1gga"... etc etc

    "The WaPo "visual investigation" also edited out video of Jacob Rosenbaum, the man who first attacked Rittenhouse, aggressively calling everyone the n-word, trying to start a fight with armed men, repeatedly daring them to, "Shoot me, nigga!""

    This is just before he encountered Rittenhouse

    https://twitter.com/0rf/status/1460326688387223556?s=20

    For the purposes of clarity, this dangerous fool Rittenhouse should not have been there. 17, with a gun. He is no hero, he surely broke laws. BUT I can see why he might shoot people trying to kill him

    BUT ANYWAY my point does not address this depressing trial, I am talking about the terrible bias in US media, on both sides. They are happy to tell outrageous lies to the American people, to further ideologies

    America is fucked
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,945
    To @RochdalePioneers’ point, I can see a cheeky ad campaign

    Boris: all talk, no trousers

    (I’ll leave it to PBers to imagine the artwork)
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    I find it unbelievable that the wires haven't bene ripped down, given how cavalier UK and US truckies are with height restrictions -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWTY2Pi1uKA and 11foot8.com
    https://twitter.com/lichfieldbridge

    The best story was the truckie who loaded a JCB, measured it carefully, then went off for a cuppa char and a wad before setting off. Not realising someone had come along, decied he wanted the block of wood under the bucket, raised the JCB's arm to get the wood, and gone off with the wood without lowering it ...
    There's a bridge over the A30 in Cornwall which gets hit about once a year. There are apparently policy reasons not to put a sacrificial pretendy bridge a mile to the East of it to protect the real one. This mystifies me.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    To @RochdalePioneers’ point, I can see a cheeky ad campaign

    Boris: all talk, no trousers

    (I’ll leave it to PBers to imagine the artwork)

    Sounds like a load of bollocks to me.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,143
    Scott_xP said:

    The Integrated Rail Review is coming on Thursday - just the latest of Boris Johnson's headaches: will he deliver his 'levelling up' agenda to the north of England?
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1460349647751467010

    Will he shite.Once again the Tories let down the North.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767

    To @RochdalePioneers’ point, I can see a cheeky ad campaign

    Boris: all talk, no trousers

    (I’ll leave it to PBers to imagine the artwork)

    Could we move over the artwork irrespective of other matters,
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    I don't know about CNN International, but the domestic version is not a news outlet at all: it is an undisguised, unapologetic, 24/7 leftwing OpEd. Never, ever expect it to provide news.
    I have now realised this

    CNN: "sexual conduct with a minor"

    Reality: "Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal"
    Yes, but so what? It's like Frank Drebin killing his 1000th drug dealer by reversing over him, and luckily he turns to be a drug dealer afterwards.
    Well it does speak to Rosenbaum's likeliness to be an aggressive psycho who you might feel a need to shoot if he comes at you

    And, oh, look, turns out Rosenbaum is an aggressive racist psycho... "shoot me n1gga"... etc etc

    "The WaPo "visual investigation" also edited out video of Jacob Rosenbaum, the man who first attacked Rittenhouse, aggressively calling everyone the n-word, trying to start a fight with armed men, repeatedly daring them to, "Shoot me, nigga!""

    This is just before he encountered Rittenhouse

    https://twitter.com/0rf/status/1460326688387223556?s=20

    For the purposes of clarity, this dangerous fool Rittenhouse should not have been there. 17, with a gun. He is no hero, he surely broke laws. BUT I can see why he might shoot people trying to kill him

    BUT ANYWAY my point does not address this depressing trial, I am talking about the terrible bias in US media, on both sides. They are happy to tell outrageous lies to the American people, to further ideologies

    America is fucked
    I don't disagree, but out of interest, where is less fucked. Certainly not Russia or China. Or India or Brazil. Or dead and decaying Europe.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,212
    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    I still do not understand how on Gods green Earth the HS project can cost over £120 billion, Even the most expensive TGV line in France only came to €20 million per km. We are projecting a cost that is over twenty times this. We are told that the bulk of this cost is in the approach tunnels to Euston, so it is even more insane to cut the Northern part of the project. The Northern English cities are right to be be spitting feathers, but all of us should be furious that the cost is so far from any sensible number. If the UK continues to f%&k up its infrastructure expenditure like this then the collapse is more advanced that we knew.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,847
    MikeL said:

    Big Picture Question:

    After the Budget, everyone said Rishi had let spending rip, highest public spending for goodness knows how many years etc.

    Yet, Govt broke triple lock for this year, went ahead with £20 UC reversal, rejected vast majority of Education catch-up tsar's demands and now not going ahead with part of HS2.

    OK, the above are maybe not huge individually but how do we reconcile this?

    ie What IS the Govt going to be spending record amounts on? (And it's not Covid, we are talking day to day spending in future years).

    Would be interested in mature, rounded, intelligent explanation - not partisan knockabout banter.

    The Government provided £10 billion in 2020-21 to local authorities to assist with the coronavirus response and another £4 billion (I think) in 2021-22.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672

    Pisspoor stuff from the government. Really pisspoor.

    HS2 has gone from ambitious grand vision to connect the seven great cities of the north and midlands - Liverpool, Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle - to the European high speed network to salami sliced farce and fudge.

    Just build the thing properly already - both arms, all seven cities, and a direct thrulink to HS1. But, these cowboys won’t.

    Enough.

    And the Scots haven't even had a chance to weigh in on the impact in Scotland (though TBH I'm not too unhappy with the ECML rather than diverting via heaven knows where en route to Brum, not that that looks possible now).
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Cicero said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    I still do not understand how on Gods green Earth the HS project can cost over £120 billion, Even the most expensive TGV line in France only came to €20 million per km. We are projecting a cost that is over twenty times this. We are told that the bulk of this cost is in the approach tunnels to Euston, so it is even more insane to cut the Northern part of the project. The Northern English cities are right to be be spitting feathers, but all of us should be furious that the cost is so far from any sensible number. If the UK continues to f%&k up its infrastructure expenditure like this then the collapse is more advanced that we knew.
    1) Where's this £120 billion figure from? That's about 50% higher than the actual figure.

    2) Land prices are higher here, which is a big chunk of the cost.

    3) But you are right, there has been a huge determination to gild the project to make it unaffordable. Effectively, there was a demand that none of the embankments should settle at all, so an absurdly high price was charged, plus higher speeds than strictly necessary were mandated.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672
    Cicero said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    I still do not understand how on Gods green Earth the HS project can cost over £120 billion, Even the most expensive TGV line in France only came to €20 million per km. We are projecting a cost that is over twenty times this. We are told that the bulk of this cost is in the approach tunnels to Euston, so it is even more insane to cut the Northern part of the project. The Northern English cities are right to be be spitting feathers, but all of us should be furious that the cost is so far from any sensible number. If the UK continues to f%&k up its infrastructure expenditure like this then the collapse is more advanced that we knew.
    Look at the foul up of the Great Western mainline electrification. Welsh not happy. But, like the Northerners, tghey do not count (ie in London).
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 948

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    I'm a Northerner. I don't use the train. They can halve the journey times to London, Edinburgh, Birmingham, and I still won't use it. There is no economic way you could do my commute to work by train, even if Beeching hadn't closed part of the route in the middle. It would be slow, it would require about a miles walk in the rain at each end, and based on typical ticket prices would cost more than driving. The only practical effect of building more railway round here would be to make it a bit better for the (unwanted) "two days a week in London class" who have already doubled the price of housing for all of us (they do also provide local employment - we have a waitrose for them to shop in).

    The whole idea that what the North needs or wants is high speed railway lines is London-centric madness. The best solution would be to not tax and spend the cash, but to use it to cut NI rates for everyone employed north of Birmingham earning under say £30k a year. That would benefit far more people than any amount of railway line.

    I say this as someone who likes trains, who has spent most of his career connected to the railway industry. Railways are great for dense commuter operations (eg London), and OK for long distance travel if you happen to be on a route they serve well, and don't care about cost.

    What they are brilliant for is medium to long distance freight, and we should be completely restructuring how the UK does freight to get it off the roads - which we currently can't do because we've dedicated most of the network to shipping rich people long distances at a loss.

    Modern software planned logistics and some sort of miniature container standard (possibly 15' containers) could shift lots of traffic off the motorway network, but would need a completely different attitude to the railway network (essentially, cut costs by lowering speeds and standards, make connections into the network much cheaper, set the whole system up with a large number of regional hubs, from which conventional lorries do the last mile bits)..
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,500
    edited November 2021
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    It won't. That's the core of the problem.

    And as I noted above, without HS2 to increase capacity there's no meaningful way of increasing services or reopening old lines elsewhere anyway.

    About the only good thing on offer is that they would finally electrify the Midland Main Line, but that was scheduled anyway before DfT made numerous false economies including that one.
    To be fair it is not a subject I have knowledge of, but if the outcry from conservative mps is added to the Paterson debacle then maybe it is time for them to indulge in letter writing
    Let's hope so.

    Although if Shapps is out by the end of the week anyway, as seems probable, the decision may be revisited anyway.
    For the flying thing?
    Well, it's more a crash than flying, but yes. That actually looks a lot more serious than the media attention it's had so far would suggest.
    To my eye the serious stuff on that is setting up structures within in his department to promote his personal concerns ahead of Government policy. With all the implications of ignoring Cabinet collegiality etc.

    Having his promote-private-flying unit putting a spoke in the wheel of a Gigafactory at Coventry Airport seems rather a lot of overreach, politically.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,049
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    I don't know about CNN International, but the domestic version is not a news outlet at all: it is an undisguised, unapologetic, 24/7 leftwing OpEd. Never, ever expect it to provide news.
    I have now realised this

    CNN: "sexual conduct with a minor"

    Reality: "Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal"
    Yes, but so what? It's like Frank Drebin killing his 1000th drug dealer by reversing over him, and luckily he turns to be a drug dealer afterwards.
    Well it does speak to Rosenbaum's likeliness to be an aggressive psycho who you might feel a need to shoot if he comes at you

    And, oh, look, turns out Rosenbaum is an aggressive racist psycho... "shoot me n1gga"... etc etc

    "The WaPo "visual investigation" also edited out video of Jacob Rosenbaum, the man who first attacked Rittenhouse, aggressively calling everyone the n-word, trying to start a fight with armed men, repeatedly daring them to, "Shoot me, nigga!""

    This is just before he encountered Rittenhouse

    https://twitter.com/0rf/status/1460326688387223556?s=20

    For the purposes of clarity, this dangerous fool Rittenhouse should not have been there. 17, with a gun. He is no hero, he surely broke laws. BUT I can see why he might shoot people trying to kill him

    BUT ANYWAY my point does not address this depressing trial, I am talking about the terrible bias in US media, on both sides. They are happy to tell outrageous lies to the American people, to further ideologies

    America is fucked
    I don't disagree, but out of interest, where is less fucked. Certainly not Russia or China. Or India or Brazil. Or dead and decaying Europe.
    Oh, for sure

    Paul Keating was right when he described Britain as a "decaying theme park sliding into the Atlantic", the only thing he should have added is that this is precisely true of all Europe

    My point is that until 5-10 years ago I thought America was avoiding absolute decline. Protected by things like the First Amendment, etc

    Now the Woke are burning the Enlightenment down and the Right will react by burning the Woke, and so the country trundles into a nightmare
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,500
    edited November 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    I find it unbelievable that the wires haven't bene ripped down, given how cavalier UK and US truckies are with height restrictions -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWTY2Pi1uKA and 11foot8.com
    https://twitter.com/lichfieldbridge

    The best story was the truckie who loaded a JCB, measured it carefully, then went off for a cuppa char and a wad before setting off. Not realising someone had come along, decied he wanted the block of wood under the bucket, raised the JCB's arm to get the wood, and gone off with the wood without lowering it ...
    There's a bridge over the A30 in Cornwall which gets hit about once a year. There are apparently policy reasons not to put a sacrificial pretendy bridge a mile to the East of it to protect the real one. This mystifies me.
    Nudge unit :smile: .

    Might actually work. Nudge unit have made a lot of things work.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Roger said:

    OT. For those who enjoy watching TV commercials one of the best directors around died last week aged 50. Here's a favourite. One for Axe/Lynx.Scroll down to number 5. Ringan Ledwidge.

    https://rianswart.co.za/my-favourite-ringan-ledwidge-commercials/

    I never watch tv commercials, they are a waste of space
    Well you're missing out. Try watching with an open mind. The music was original and perfect and great. The concept was brilliant. The styling and casting was faultless the detail was faultless and you could watch it repeatedly because it doesn't get boring. By contrast I saw Clint Eastwood's latest effort today which despite lasting two hours longer was almost unwatchable
  • Options
    The Harrying the North
    1069-70 William I

    The Leveling of the North
    2021-22 Boris one & only
  • Options

    To @RochdalePioneers’ point, I can see a cheeky ad campaign

    Boris: all talk, no trousers

    (I’ll leave it to PBers to imagine the artwork)

    If this was just another policy hanging around for years then ok. But no, this was a Boris special. Up to Manchester. Big speech - I WILL BUILD YOUR THINGS. Wins lots of seats. And now wants to cancel it? Worse, seemingly to assume people are stupid and spin the cancellation as a Good Thing.

    We'd already heard from red wall Tories at their extreme anger being blackmailed to voting for wrong or your towns fund gets it. And now this. Is Boris that desperate for letters to the '22?
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Scott_xP said:

    northern Tory MP:

    “this is going to drive colleagues in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the North East absolutely bananas…they can’t just rip cash out like this. It’s tone deaf as well as politically dumb”


    https://www.ft.com/content/1b32c2db-12de-41d8-89c0-8a454fec378a

    North East newspapers are going for the jugular, as they have been for a couple of weeks tbh. They have been the conduit for the Tories to highlight all Labour's failings and talk up what they are going to do. Now the Tories are in, as hypocrisy and missed promises pile up they are almost gleefully poking it with a stick saying "this is shit"
    Fair chance BJ will be gone at this rate within 12 months unless he does an almighty u-turn. If Rishi doesn't recognise it, he will be gone too. Could be a time for a surprise candidate for the Tory leadership.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    edited November 2021
    I think it was @Stocky ? who mentioned the bet, but I laid to win £100 on Starmer exit 2023 today @ 2.6, seems excellent value. No challenge looks imminent, and he probably holds on long enough even if he gets tonked in an autumn 2023 election.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    maaarsh said:

    BigRich said:

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    Sorry if I'm late to this, but what eclectic motorway experiment is that?

    I listened to a report on 5 live where there is a section of motorway having catenary wires installed for electric HGVs and it was suggested this would be extended to all roads in the future to power HGVs

    It was a serious report but seemed rather ridiculous
    Been running test sections on live German roads for years.
    I find it unbelievable that the wires haven't bene ripped down, given how cavalier UK and US truckies are with height restrictions -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWTY2Pi1uKA and 11foot8.com
    https://twitter.com/lichfieldbridge

    The best story was the truckie who loaded a JCB, measured it carefully, then went off for a cuppa char and a wad before setting off. Not realising someone had come along, decied he wanted the block of wood under the bucket, raised the JCB's arm to get the wood, and gone off with the wood without lowering it ...
    There's a bridge over the A30 in Cornwall which gets hit about once a year. There are apparently policy reasons not to put a sacrificial pretendy bridge a mile to the East of it to protect the real one. This mystifies me.
    We have a local small bridge about ½ a mile from a huge Costco depot. Despite the massive no through traffic signs for trucks and the pretendy bridge with dangly cans hanging from it to the appropriate height, a truck gets stuck about once a year, and at least once the bridge has been taken out of service for structural repairs.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    The Education Secretary doesn't declare £1.3 million he earned from a second job working for an oil company because the money went through a company he set up called "Zahawi and Zahawi".

    I'll watch my language but they really are taking the p**s now.

    https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1460273632077299712

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-minister-nadhim-zahawi-pockets-25457511
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767
    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:

    northern Tory MP:

    “this is going to drive colleagues in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the North East absolutely bananas…they can’t just rip cash out like this. It’s tone deaf as well as politically dumb”


    https://www.ft.com/content/1b32c2db-12de-41d8-89c0-8a454fec378a

    North East newspapers are going for the jugular, as they have been for a couple of weeks tbh. They have been the conduit for the Tories to highlight all Labour's failings and talk up what they are going to do. Now the Tories are in, as hypocrisy and missed promises pile up they are almost gleefully poking it with a stick saying "this is shit"
    Fair chance BJ will be gone at this rate within 12 months unless he does an almighty u-turn. If Rishi doesn't recognise it, he will be gone too. Could be a time for a surprise candidate for the Tory leadership.
    There's lots of money to be made backing that view if your'e right.
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 948
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    I don't know about CNN International, but the domestic version is not a news outlet at all: it is an undisguised, unapologetic, 24/7 leftwing OpEd. Never, ever expect it to provide news.
    I have now realised this

    CNN: "sexual conduct with a minor"

    Reality: "Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal"
    If this is halfway to true, why was he out of the street, rather than locked up waiting for his ride in the electric chair?
    He doesn't sound like a type to be much lamented, although that has little bearing on the trial at hand - I'm not convinced that "your worship, the chap I murdered was a complete scumbag, although I didn't know it at the time" is a particularly strong line for the defence to take.
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    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:

    northern Tory MP:

    “this is going to drive colleagues in Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the North East absolutely bananas…they can’t just rip cash out like this. It’s tone deaf as well as politically dumb”


    https://www.ft.com/content/1b32c2db-12de-41d8-89c0-8a454fec378a

    North East newspapers are going for the jugular, as they have been for a couple of weeks tbh. They have been the conduit for the Tories to highlight all Labour's failings and talk up what they are going to do. Now the Tories are in, as hypocrisy and missed promises pile up they are almost gleefully poking it with a stick saying "this is shit"
    Fair chance BJ will be gone at this rate within 12 months unless he does an almighty u-turn. If Rishi doesn't recognise it, he will be gone too. Could be a time for a surprise candidate for the Tory leadership.
    Rishi has had a few fingers pointing at him on here tonight. No chance - he IS a northern Tory remember. This is the golden gobshite having no idea what he is promising having a kneejerk reaction to throw fish at the posh end of the party upset with him over everything.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,192
    edited November 2021

    Omnium said:

    Someone needs to explain the cost of HS2 to Leeds and when trains will actually run v whatever proposals are to be announced on Thursday

    It seems billions are to be invested in Northern transport and of course the question for labour will be will they build it?
    I think it's clear that you don't want Labour to build it. The Tories are a little better as to actual constrution. The private sector is what you want.
    To be fair the cost and time scale needs explaining and just how the investment proposed mitigates the loss of HS2 east
    Lets assume for a minute they had decided they can't afford HS2 East and accordingly have pulled it. Whilst I would disagree with the decision it would at least be clear. Instead they are cancelling it but are still building scores of miles of it for billions and billions and billions.

    For all that they complain about profligate Labour wasting money, what do you call this? Then when the wailing and screaming starts from red wall Tories who can see both the lipstip and the pig, more lipstick will be offered.

    Northern Powerhouse Rail - properly connecting Greater Manchester and West Yprkshire - has not been "toned down" as some are reporting. It has been *cancelled*.
    If any Government had the political will and wit, HS2E could be financed by any number of buy now, pay next century schemes.

    TBF to Johnson this doesn't look like something he would have cancelled, he is normally of the opinion jam today, debt called in long after his own and the voters' aged demise.
    That's the interesting aspect of all this. Why cancel it? Most of the money wouldn't need to be spent for many years yet, so what's the upside of taking the criticism for cancelling it?

    The only options I can think of that make any sense to me are:

    1. The public finances are in much worse shape then we've been led to believe, and so the Treasury is conducting a series of near-emergency expenditure control measures. Any other signs of a Treasury starting to panic?

    2. Johnson really desperately wants to spend a lot of money on some new shiny bauble, but Sunak won't let him unless he cancels some spending elsewhere. So, what's the shiny bauble going to be?

    Any other suggestions gratefully received.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,945
    The football is strangely fascinating. England eight up against ten men. A bizarre case study in sporting imbalance.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    TimT said:

    MrEd said:

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    This is the oddest delusion — that his victims were black. They were all white.
    At the end of this day, this is another form of guerilla marketing. The customer base that buys Ben and Jerry’s is likely to be well off and liberal so this sort of tweet panders to the base instincts of their customers while making B&J look good to the people who buy their product.
    But the B&J post is not about the colour of the victims, but the colour of the perpetrator. And the question is valid. How would this trial be going if the defendant were black, not white. Even if the victims were black, not white.

    It is a valid question, and the answer is ugly, if we are honest.
    Well, as I posted before, there was a school shooting a few weeks, black school kid shooter, let out on $75K bail and partying while his victims are in hospital. Crickets from CNN, MSNBC etc.

    If it was the other way round (black defendant shoots right-wingers in claimed self-defence) he would be treated as a hero by the same outlets who are gunning for Rittenhouse, with claims it was clear self-defence, a white man would never be held to the same standard etc etc. And the right wing outlets would be taking the place of CNN in their condemnation, although I think they would be less vocal about the race of the defendant.

    The problem with American justice (and many on here) is that their first question is not "what did they do?" but "who did it"
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    Yet another harbinger of America's decline and fall . . .

    Recently commercials have been popping up on the el cheapo broadcast TV featuring the great intellectual, strategist and legislative leader of the American conservatism . . . wait for it . . . NEWT GINGRICH selling title protection insurance to insecure home-owning American geezers.

    Note that Joe Namath is today a TV shill for supplemental health insurance for seniors. Clearly advertisers do NOT feel Newt has the desired level of credibility for that no-doubt much more lucrative role.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192
    edited November 2021
    Meanwhile in more "lets shit the bed" news
    https://twitter.com/MatthewGreen02/status/1460346523347267585

    I understand from multiple sources that the Tory candidate from Birmingham won’t do any media interviews for a week because he ‘needs to learn about the constituency’.
    It appears the Tories are doing their best to lose #NorthShropshire to the
    @LibDems
This discussion has been closed.