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In terms of dates the ComRes LAB 6% lead poll is still the latest – politicalbetting.com

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  • The world is truly messed up, the French are up for a war.

    Macron tells Putin France is ready to defend Ukraine's 'territorial integrity'

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1460309423373565956

    They're ready to send a battalion of white flags in case there's any action.
  • kinabalu said:

    Quite the thread from Chris Curtis of Opinium, this bit stuck out.

    We can also compare how Johnson is viewed now with how May was viewed in March 2019 (4 months before she was booted out).

    Johnson beats her on just one metric "Is able to get things done".

    When it comes to sticking to principles, 2019 May is 24 points ahead.


    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1460275673344487425

    That one metric might be due to the subliminal effect of his brutalist sloganizing. Get Brexit Done. Get Social Care Done. Get xyz Done etc.
    The sloganising followed up by actually getting them done.

    I'm disgusted by the social care levy and quit the party over it, but he did get it done. Whether you like Brexit or not, he did get it done.
  • Lukashenko just had a 50 min long phone call with Angela Merkel - his press-service says. It’s the first time he’s spoken with a Western leader since the August 2020 election. The regime propaganda is thrilled: "Europe kneels before the Supreme Leader"

    https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1460314371880542211?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited November 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Case rise seems to have levelled off entirely, most ages and the total pointing slightly down now, so the increases still coming through the daily totals are just as we're comparing to a lower level last week rather than still in the process of rising.

    OK, that's good news. Does look like we are cresting a wave rather than riding a surge. A clear booster effect there, as well
    There really is no need to panic. The time to panic would be if we saw over 100% WoW rises in cases followed by 60-70% rises in hospitalisations. If that happens then it would likely be due to a vaccine evading variant, there's simply too much vaccine+natural immunity in the UK. I know some are keen to dismiss the idea that reopening fully from July was the right decision because they don't like the politicians who did it and do like the politicians in other countries who called us all crazy but those 7.7m infections we've had to date vs not even 20% of that level in other countries is making a huge difference.

    I've done some quick maths on it and I think without boosters we're currently sitting at population immunity of about 82%. With boosters we could be getting to about 87%, with Delta it's thought that we need to hit population immunity of about 90-93% to get to herd immunity. The government decision to open up over 40s boosters and the likely opening of over 18s boosters is to make that happen. We would still need another 9m infections to reach that with natural immunity alone, even with VE against death still looking pretty good that still adds up to a lot of deaths and a lot of people using the NHS that could be very easily prevented. 9m infections at the current rates would take about 4 months.
    V helpful, ta

    I'm still fucking furious that they delayed the vax for kids and then the boosters, when it was obvious they were needed and beneficial. I read a report a couple of days ago - can't recall where, perhaps Times or Groaniad - that confirmed your allegation. One big reason they delayed these jabs is because of idiot bien pensant doctors who wanted to give all our shots to poor countries

    Yes, let thousands of Britons die or get ill, and crash the UK health system, so YOU can feel good about yourself. Grr
    Those idiot bean peasants include the woman who made the vaccine.
    Then she's an idiot (in this case). Despite doing great work on the vax

    They weren't just idiotic they were wrong. Imagine if we HAD given away all those doses, and we were unable to do the booster campaign and jab the kids? How would they be feeling now? What would the British public think of them?

    These wanker do-gooders should be grateful they were eventually over-ruled by politicians, or they might now be in hiding
    That's an irrational and jaundiced way of putting it.

    This is a global pandemic and we have rich nations giving 3rd 'top up' jabs to their adult populations and vaccinating kids before some poorer countries have even been able to give the basic 1st jab protection to their most vulnerables.

    It's a perfectly respectable opinion - morally and pragmatically - to say that's wrong.

    To call those holding such an opinion 'wanker do-gooders' is like if I were to call you a 'selfish prick who can't see beyond the end of his nose' for holding the opposite opinion.

    Which I'd never do.
    You may not agree with it - indeed I am sure you don't - but the first duty of any Government is to look after its own citizens. This can and does lead to some moral dilemmas but that is the way of the world.
    Of course - but there's room for shade there. Eg, if a pound spent elsewhere would have MASSIVELY more benefit than being spent at home, the case for doing so is stronger than if the differential benefit is smaller albeit significant. This calculus is practical not ethereal and it lies at the heart of lots of political decisions - eg and topically climate projects - and for me there's no reason whatsoever why it shouldn't apply here. By apply, I mean at least consider the differential benefit rather than simply rule it out on the knee jerk basis of "nope, Britain first Britain first". I'd say my view is rational. It's not dreamy or overly idealistic.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    Lukashenko just had a 50 min long phone call with Angela Merkel - his press-service says. It’s the first time he’s spoken with a Western leader since the August 2020 election. The regime propaganda is thrilled: "Europe kneels before the Supreme Leader"

    https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1460314371880542211?s=20

    But presumably you’d agree that jaw-jaw is better than war-war.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056

    RH1992 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Post-Brexit immigration rules lead to collapse in EU school trips to UK https://on.ft.com/3wO3omx

    I can't access that piece but it will be because the operators cannot get work permits for those who accompany the children.

    In the ski tourism industry it is career-ending for ski instructors. I know one who worked in Verbier every winter but now cannot due to Brexit.

    It is a little more encouraging for chalet-staff. The chalet companies, who usually employ young Brits doing a gap year, are having to advertise positions locally (i.e. in France) for EU staff first before offering jobs to the British. Then they apply for a work permit for them, which enables them to get a visa from the French Embassy.

    The end result is usually OK because French locals whilst happy to be a chalet cook do not want to do the other work particular to chalet girls/boys (e.g. sorting out punters' problems and cleaning the loos).
    Hang on: do you mean that schools sending pupils to the UK are paying their teachers to go? I normally end up out of pocket after the trips I’ve done.
    Your paid a basic aren't you? If you accompany the children you will be working not touristing. Same goes for the employees of the school trip company that the schools tend to contract out to these days. They are all workers and have lost the right to work in the EU without a visa - which they either cannot get or because it is too much bloody hassle/costly.
    I’ve done trips to some places I don’t think were in the EU, like Mongolia, and there were no problems with anything more than a basic visa.

    I don’t get paid to go, and most trips I’ve been on have been holidays/weekends.
    Yeah, I had a sixth form school trip to Washington D.C, and everyone had to have a passport and an ESTA (this was just over 10 years ago, showing my age here). The teacher organised everyone getting their ESTA on one weekday evening in the sixth form library and everything was sorted.

    Forgive me for not being all that sympathetic. If schools in some EU nations are only willing to travel on group passports or national ID cards then that's a pretty insular world view.

    Other non-EEA/EFTA/Schengen countries would likely treat those schools the same as the UK treats them, so why is it that the UK is expected to move on this?

    Having said that, I do think that there should be a visa waiver for educational purposes. We shouldn't be making it more difficult for refugee children who have ended up in an EU country to visit than the actual nationals there.
    It is not an insular view, just the practicalities. Many Euro-pupils don't have passports because they are not needed for travel round Europe. Now that passports are needed to come to Britain, it is simpler to go to a different country than to ask two dozen families to acquire passports, and possibly visas. Perhaps HMG can come up with an exception for school trips.
    If an EU citizen holding only an ID card flies to Dublin, they can presumably take a ferry to the UK with just their ID card. Or, indeed wander over the border to Northern Ireland.

    I assume our decision to scrap ID cards for entry into the UK was to do with security, but it sounds like some sort of Group passport for school trips with each child carrying just an ID card is the way to ease this problem.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,068

    Ok, PB train buffs. Tonight's treat:

    Inside the Struggle to Save Bulgaria’s Last Narrow-Gauge Railroad
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/travel/bulgaria-narrow-gauge-railway.html

    "The Rhodope Narrow-Gauge Railway serves 27 stations across the Rhodope mountain range. Built in the first half of the 20th century, the railway has a track with a width of 760 millimeters, or around 30 inches, which is roughly half the width of a standard railroad track. (The narrow gauge is good for climbing steep terrain and allows for tighter curves, lighter rail and smaller tunnels — all of which are critical to its route through the mountains.)"

    Makes sense now why narrow gauge is used on so many hill railways in India too. I get the curves, but why better at gradients?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    kinabalu said:

    Quite the thread from Chris Curtis of Opinium, this bit stuck out.

    We can also compare how Johnson is viewed now with how May was viewed in March 2019 (4 months before she was booted out).

    Johnson beats her on just one metric "Is able to get things done".

    When it comes to sticking to principles, 2019 May is 24 points ahead.


    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1460275673344487425

    That one metric might be due to the subliminal effect of his brutalist sloganizing. Get Brexit Done. Get Social Care Done. Get xyz Done etc.
    The sloganising followed up by actually getting them done.

    I'm disgusted by the social care levy and quit the party over it, but he did get it done. Whether you like Brexit or not, he did get it done.
    Since when did half baked count as done?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    You can get 620 (BF) on San Marino to win against England this evening!

    Oh god, can you imagine. I still remember the game years ago v San Marino when we conceded in the 1st minute and the immortal Motson commentary -

    "And it's England nil, San Marino one!"
    Didn’t we win 7-1 in the end?
    Yep we absolutely smashed them! Great day.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    For all those PBers that backed/defended Kwasi's comments.

    BEIS Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng apologizes to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards for his media comments about her, and says he 'should have chosen ... words more carefully' as he 'did not mean to express doubt about your ability to discharge your role'.Letter on gov uk

    https://twitter.com/JakubKrupa/status/1460307554593091588

    Might be unfair but Kwarteng seems a Johnson stoolie to me.
  • carnforth said:

    RH1992 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Post-Brexit immigration rules lead to collapse in EU school trips to UK https://on.ft.com/3wO3omx

    I can't access that piece but it will be because the operators cannot get work permits for those who accompany the children.

    In the ski tourism industry it is career-ending for ski instructors. I know one who worked in Verbier every winter but now cannot due to Brexit.

    It is a little more encouraging for chalet-staff. The chalet companies, who usually employ young Brits doing a gap year, are having to advertise positions locally (i.e. in France) for EU staff first before offering jobs to the British. Then they apply for a work permit for them, which enables them to get a visa from the French Embassy.

    The end result is usually OK because French locals whilst happy to be a chalet cook do not want to do the other work particular to chalet girls/boys (e.g. sorting out punters' problems and cleaning the loos).
    Hang on: do you mean that schools sending pupils to the UK are paying their teachers to go? I normally end up out of pocket after the trips I’ve done.
    Your paid a basic aren't you? If you accompany the children you will be working not touristing. Same goes for the employees of the school trip company that the schools tend to contract out to these days. They are all workers and have lost the right to work in the EU without a visa - which they either cannot get or because it is too much bloody hassle/costly.
    I’ve done trips to some places I don’t think were in the EU, like Mongolia, and there were no problems with anything more than a basic visa.

    I don’t get paid to go, and most trips I’ve been on have been holidays/weekends.
    Yeah, I had a sixth form school trip to Washington D.C, and everyone had to have a passport and an ESTA (this was just over 10 years ago, showing my age here). The teacher organised everyone getting their ESTA on one weekday evening in the sixth form library and everything was sorted.

    Forgive me for not being all that sympathetic. If schools in some EU nations are only willing to travel on group passports or national ID cards then that's a pretty insular world view.

    Other non-EEA/EFTA/Schengen countries would likely treat those schools the same as the UK treats them, so why is it that the UK is expected to move on this?

    Having said that, I do think that there should be a visa waiver for educational purposes. We shouldn't be making it more difficult for refugee children who have ended up in an EU country to visit than the actual nationals there.
    It is not an insular view, just the practicalities. Many Euro-pupils don't have passports because they are not needed for travel round Europe. Now that passports are needed to come to Britain, it is simpler to go to a different country than to ask two dozen families to acquire passports, and possibly visas. Perhaps HMG can come up with an exception for school trips.
    If an EU citizen holding only an ID card flies to Dublin, they can presumably take a ferry to the UK with just their ID card. Or, indeed wander over the border to Northern Ireland.

    I assume our decision to scrap ID cards for entry into the UK was to do with security, but it sounds like some sort of Group passport for school trips with each child carrying just an ID card is the way to ease this problem.
    I do not think there was any such decision; it simply fell out as a natural, if unforeseen, consequence of Brexit. As you say, it could easily be fixed.
  • IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Quite the thread from Chris Curtis of Opinium, this bit stuck out.

    We can also compare how Johnson is viewed now with how May was viewed in March 2019 (4 months before she was booted out).

    Johnson beats her on just one metric "Is able to get things done".

    When it comes to sticking to principles, 2019 May is 24 points ahead.


    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1460275673344487425

    That one metric might be due to the subliminal effect of his brutalist sloganizing. Get Brexit Done. Get Social Care Done. Get xyz Done etc.
    The sloganising followed up by actually getting them done.

    I'm disgusted by the social care levy and quit the party over it, but he did get it done. Whether you like Brexit or not, he did get it done.
    Since when did half baked count as done?
    No idea what you're talking about.

    Post-Brexit isn't done, it will never be done. Brexit however is done.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280
    edited November 2021
    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"
  • The world is truly messed up, the French are up for a war.

    Macron tells Putin France is ready to defend Ukraine's 'territorial integrity'

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1460309423373565956

    The Brits sending over Force 10 to Poland obviously shamed the continent.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    isam said:

    Lead now at 1% down from 6%

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Labour Lead in our GB Voting Intention for the Second Time This Year.

    Full results (15 Nov):

    Labour 37% (-1)
    Conservative 36% (-)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-)
    Reform UK 4% (+1)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 10 Nov

    Different pollsters, though? The 6 point lead was ComRes.

    Sir Keir ahead on net satisfaction now, -9 playing Boris’s -10, though Boris still leads on Gross Positives, 35 to 26, which I think is the more important metric
    My apologies I got that wrong


    However this part really stands out

    Pluralities of respondents say they do not know which of the two ‘tells the truth’ (46%), ‘is creative’ (43%), ‘prioritises the environment’ (40%), or ‘has the better foreign policy strategy’ (40%).

    46% do not know which of the two tells the truth !!!!!!!
    It takes a big man to apologise
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited November 2021

    NHS bosses advise all hospitals to review security after Liverpool blast

    Exclusive: NHS England to send guidance to all trusts as terror threat level in country upgraded to ‘severe’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/15/nhs-bosses-advise-all-hospitals-review-security-after-liverpool-blast

    That's exactly what the NHS needed right now, fucking terrorist arseholes. Glad he didn't make it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Case rise seems to have levelled off entirely, most ages and the total pointing slightly down now, so the increases still coming through the daily totals are just as we're comparing to a lower level last week rather than still in the process of rising.

    OK, that's good news. Does look like we are cresting a wave rather than riding a surge. A clear booster effect there, as well
    There really is no need to panic. The time to panic would be if we saw over 100% WoW rises in cases followed by 60-70% rises in hospitalisations. If that happens then it would likely be due to a vaccine evading variant, there's simply too much vaccine+natural immunity in the UK. I know some are keen to dismiss the idea that reopening fully from July was the right decision because they don't like the politicians who did it and do like the politicians in other countries who called us all crazy but those 7.7m infections we've had to date vs not even 20% of that level in other countries is making a huge difference.

    I've done some quick maths on it and I think without boosters we're currently sitting at population immunity of about 82%. With boosters we could be getting to about 87%, with Delta it's thought that we need to hit population immunity of about 90-93% to get to herd immunity. The government decision to open up over 40s boosters and the likely opening of over 18s boosters is to make that happen. We would still need another 9m infections to reach that with natural immunity alone, even with VE against death still looking pretty good that still adds up to a lot of deaths and a lot of people using the NHS that could be very easily prevented. 9m infections at the current rates would take about 4 months.
    V helpful, ta

    I'm still fucking furious that they delayed the vax for kids and then the boosters, when it was obvious they were needed and beneficial. I read a report a couple of days ago - can't recall where, perhaps Times or Groaniad - that confirmed your allegation. One big reason they delayed these jabs is because of idiot bien pensant doctors who wanted to give all our shots to poor countries

    Yes, let thousands of Britons die or get ill, and crash the UK health system, so YOU can feel good about yourself. Grr
    Those idiot bean peasants include the woman who made the vaccine.
    There was (and is) a sub-group of JCVI who are opposed to child vaccination and boosters on the grounds that they think the vaccinations should go to the developing world. There is also a sub-group that doesn't want child vaccination on the basis that the benefit to the child, themselves, isn't big enough.

    Not sure how these subgroups overlap - but they probably do.

    The issue was the JCVI was trying for unanimity in their decisions.
    There would be an overlap there, I'd have thought. AIRI, they didn't recommend against, they kind of sat on the fence and said it's up to govt, didn't they?
    That was because the sub-groups opposed to the child vaccinations and boosters effectively "hung the jury" - because JCVI wanted unanimity, the minority held up the publication of a report, by perpetually asking for more data.

    I have been told that the relevant Minster finally told them to either produce a report. Or be disbanded.
    Worst of both worlds then maybe. If we were doing it, best to crack on. But the government could have been more decisive, couldn't they? It being their decision. Them being the government.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    edited November 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Case rise seems to have levelled off entirely, most ages and the total pointing slightly down now, so the increases still coming through the daily totals are just as we're comparing to a lower level last week rather than still in the process of rising.

    OK, that's good news. Does look like we are cresting a wave rather than riding a surge. A clear booster effect there, as well
    There really is no need to panic. The time to panic would be if we saw over 100% WoW rises in cases followed by 60-70% rises in hospitalisations. If that happens then it would likely be due to a vaccine evading variant, there's simply too much vaccine+natural immunity in the UK. I know some are keen to dismiss the idea that reopening fully from July was the right decision because they don't like the politicians who did it and do like the politicians in other countries who called us all crazy but those 7.7m infections we've had to date vs not even 20% of that level in other countries is making a huge difference.

    I've done some quick maths on it and I think without boosters we're currently sitting at population immunity of about 82%. With boosters we could be getting to about 87%, with Delta it's thought that we need to hit population immunity of about 90-93% to get to herd immunity. The government decision to open up over 40s boosters and the likely opening of over 18s boosters is to make that happen. We would still need another 9m infections to reach that with natural immunity alone, even with VE against death still looking pretty good that still adds up to a lot of deaths and a lot of people using the NHS that could be very easily prevented. 9m infections at the current rates would take about 4 months.
    V helpful, ta

    I'm still fucking furious that they delayed the vax for kids and then the boosters, when it was obvious they were needed and beneficial. I read a report a couple of days ago - can't recall where, perhaps Times or Groaniad - that confirmed your allegation. One big reason they delayed these jabs is because of idiot bien pensant doctors who wanted to give all our shots to poor countries

    Yes, let thousands of Britons die or get ill, and crash the UK health system, so YOU can feel good about yourself. Grr
    Those idiot bean peasants include the woman who made the vaccine.
    There was (and is) a sub-group of JCVI who are opposed to child vaccination and boosters on the grounds that they think the vaccinations should go to the developing world. There is also a sub-group that doesn't want child vaccination on the basis that the benefit to the child, themselves, isn't big enough.

    Not sure how these subgroups overlap - but they probably do.

    The issue was the JCVI was trying for unanimity in their decisions.
    There would be an overlap there, I'd have thought. AIRI, they didn't recommend against, they kind of sat on the fence and said it's up to govt, didn't they?
    That was because the sub-groups opposed to the child vaccinations and boosters effectively "hung the jury" - because JCVI wanted unanimity, the minority held up the publication of a report, by perpetually asking for more data.

    I have been told that the relevant Minster finally told them to either produce a report. Or be disbanded.
    Worst of both worlds then maybe. If we were doing it, best to crack on. But the government could have been more decisive, couldn't they? It being their decision. Them being the government.
    Yes, that's fair. HMG must take some criticism as well. This was a political opinion from the boffins - give the jabs to other countries! - not scientific advice. Sure, they are entitled to this opinion, but it should have zero influence on actual politicians - who are elected to make these choices.

    The Cabinet should have slapped the doctors down, and ordered the jabs brought forward, earlier
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    The world is truly messed up, the French are up for a war.

    Macron tells Putin France is ready to defend Ukraine's 'territorial integrity'

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1460309423373565956

    They're ready to send a battalion of white flags in case there's any action.
    Is that a reference to White Russians fighting the red Russians in chaos after the First World War?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Case rise seems to have levelled off entirely, most ages and the total pointing slightly down now, so the increases still coming through the daily totals are just as we're comparing to a lower level last week rather than still in the process of rising.

    OK, that's good news. Does look like we are cresting a wave rather than riding a surge. A clear booster effect there, as well
    There really is no need to panic. The time to panic would be if we saw over 100% WoW rises in cases followed by 60-70% rises in hospitalisations. If that happens then it would likely be due to a vaccine evading variant, there's simply too much vaccine+natural immunity in the UK. I know some are keen to dismiss the idea that reopening fully from July was the right decision because they don't like the politicians who did it and do like the politicians in other countries who called us all crazy but those 7.7m infections we've had to date vs not even 20% of that level in other countries is making a huge difference.

    I've done some quick maths on it and I think without boosters we're currently sitting at population immunity of about 82%. With boosters we could be getting to about 87%, with Delta it's thought that we need to hit population immunity of about 90-93% to get to herd immunity. The government decision to open up over 40s boosters and the likely opening of over 18s boosters is to make that happen. We would still need another 9m infections to reach that with natural immunity alone, even with VE against death still looking pretty good that still adds up to a lot of deaths and a lot of people using the NHS that could be very easily prevented. 9m infections at the current rates would take about 4 months.
    V helpful, ta

    I'm still fucking furious that they delayed the vax for kids and then the boosters, when it was obvious they were needed and beneficial. I read a report a couple of days ago - can't recall where, perhaps Times or Groaniad - that confirmed your allegation. One big reason they delayed these jabs is because of idiot bien pensant doctors who wanted to give all our shots to poor countries

    Yes, let thousands of Britons die or get ill, and crash the UK health system, so YOU can feel good about yourself. Grr
    Those idiot bean peasants include the woman who made the vaccine.
    There was (and is) a sub-group of JCVI who are opposed to child vaccination and boosters on the grounds that they think the vaccinations should go to the developing world. There is also a sub-group that doesn't want child vaccination on the basis that the benefit to the child, themselves, isn't big enough.

    Not sure how these subgroups overlap - but they probably do.

    The issue was the JCVI was trying for unanimity in their decisions.
    There would be an overlap there, I'd have thought. AIRI, they didn't recommend against, they kind of sat on the fence and said it's up to govt, didn't they?
    That was because the sub-groups opposed to the child vaccinations and boosters effectively "hung the jury" - because JCVI wanted unanimity, the minority held up the publication of a report, by perpetually asking for more data.

    I have been told that the relevant Minster finally told them to either produce a report. Or be disbanded.
    Worst of both worlds then maybe. If we were doing it, best to crack on. But the government could have been more decisive, couldn't they? It being their decision. Them being the government.
    I know you are not a fan of the current government. I’d say on this narrow point you are being unfair. In fact, Javid did pretty much what you suggested. Up til then the government were waiting for the jcvi to actually make a call, and they refused to do so.Mhra had ruled on safety months before. It was the jcvi that caused the hold up, not a dithering government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    .
    kle4 said:

    For all those PBers that backed/defended Kwasi's comments.

    BEIS Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng apologizes to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards for his media comments about her, and says he 'should have chosen ... words more carefully' as he 'did not mean to express doubt about your ability to discharge your role'.Letter on gov uk

    https://twitter.com/JakubKrupa/status/1460307554593091588

    Yes he did mean to express doubt about her ability to discharge her role, that's what the words he said meant unambiguously. What else could he possibly have meant? I note he does not clear that up, because he cannot.

    What a weaselly, cowardly, evasive letter. He'd have done better not to write it at all and stonewall it out than put out such tosh, full of how his remarks were 'interpreted' and given 'impression' of having fallen short of high standards. Sorry I trashed you in public…
    Eton man.
    On recent evidence they are not noted for their attachment to principle.

  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653

    isam said:

    Lead now at 1% down from 6%

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Labour Lead in our GB Voting Intention for the Second Time This Year.

    Full results (15 Nov):

    Labour 37% (-1)
    Conservative 36% (-)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-)
    Reform UK 4% (+1)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 10 Nov

    Different pollsters, though? The 6 point lead was ComRes.

    Sir Keir ahead on net satisfaction now, -9 playing Boris’s -10, though Boris still leads on Gross Positives, 35 to 26, which I think is the more important metric
    My apologies I got that wrong


    However this part really stands out

    Pluralities of respondents say they do not know which of the two ‘tells the truth’ (46%), ‘is creative’ (43%), ‘prioritises the environment’ (40%), or ‘has the better foreign policy strategy’ (40%).

    46% do not know which of the two tells the truth !!!!!!!
    It takes a big man to apologise
    They don't call him BigG for nothing.

    Ahem.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    The problem is when journalists fell pray to an ideology that told them it was their DUTY to report stories in a way which matched their personal opinions. Once that happened impartiality never had a chance, and indeed would now feel positively immoral to them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Case rise seems to have levelled off entirely, most ages and the total pointing slightly down now, so the increases still coming through the daily totals are just as we're comparing to a lower level last week rather than still in the process of rising.

    OK, that's good news. Does look like we are cresting a wave rather than riding a surge. A clear booster effect there, as well
    There really is no need to panic. The time to panic would be if we saw over 100% WoW rises in cases followed by 60-70% rises in hospitalisations. If that happens then it would likely be due to a vaccine evading variant, there's simply too much vaccine+natural immunity in the UK. I know some are keen to dismiss the idea that reopening fully from July was the right decision because they don't like the politicians who did it and do like the politicians in other countries who called us all crazy but those 7.7m infections we've had to date vs not even 20% of that level in other countries is making a huge difference.

    I've done some quick maths on it and I think without boosters we're currently sitting at population immunity of about 82%. With boosters we could be getting to about 87%, with Delta it's thought that we need to hit population immunity of about 90-93% to get to herd immunity. The government decision to open up over 40s boosters and the likely opening of over 18s boosters is to make that happen. We would still need another 9m infections to reach that with natural immunity alone, even with VE against death still looking pretty good that still adds up to a lot of deaths and a lot of people using the NHS that could be very easily prevented. 9m infections at the current rates would take about 4 months.
    V helpful, ta

    I'm still fucking furious that they delayed the vax for kids and then the boosters, when it was obvious they were needed and beneficial. I read a report a couple of days ago - can't recall where, perhaps Times or Groaniad - that confirmed your allegation. One big reason they delayed these jabs is because of idiot bien pensant doctors who wanted to give all our shots to poor countries

    Yes, let thousands of Britons die or get ill, and crash the UK health system, so YOU can feel good about yourself. Grr
    Those idiot bean peasants include the woman who made the vaccine.
    Then she's an idiot (in this case). Despite doing great work on the vax

    They weren't just idiotic they were wrong. Imagine if we HAD given away all those doses, and we were unable to do the booster campaign and jab the kids? How would they be feeling now? What would the British public think of them?

    These wanker do-gooders should be grateful they were eventually over-ruled by politicians, or they might now be in hiding
    That's an irrational and jaundiced way of putting it.

    This is a global pandemic and we have rich nations giving 3rd 'top up' jabs to their adult populations and vaccinating kids before some poorer countries have even been able to give the basic 1st jab protection to their most vulnerables.

    It's a perfectly respectable opinion - morally and pragmatically - to say that's wrong.

    To call those holding such an opinion 'wanker do-gooders' is like if I were to call you a 'selfish prick who can't see beyond the end of his nose' for holding the opposite opinion.

    Which I'd never do.
    It would be interesting to see some polling on this. I imagine the British people agree with me rather than you by about 8 to 1.

    The delay in administering boosters and child jabs has almost certainly cost hundreds if not thousands of UK lives, and all to massage the consciences of these fools
    I think it would be at least 8 to 1, yes.

    I'm not taking issue with your opinion - that we shouldn't think about poorer countries until we're completely out of the woods ourselves - what I'm taking issue with is the description of people in disagreement as fools and wankers and bean peasants who hold the view they say they hold purely in order to 'feel good about themselves' rather than because they genuinely think it makes moral and practical sense.

    This is something I've noticed as a general point. That people who don't care about something like to believe that those who say they DO care don't really. And why is this? Well imo it's our old friend - it's so as to 'feel good about themselves', or rather 'less bad'.
    No, I just think in this case they are vain, foolish and myopic. "Idiot" is a shorthand for that

    No more than that, tho. I wouldn't sling 'em in jail

    The bigger point is that the government has to put these people back in their boxes. They should not be near huge decisions like this, inflicting their insane political viewpoints on us. The boffins are there, in this case, to advise the ministers if vaccines are safe. That's it. After that they should shut up
    Advisers advise, Boris decides.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Case rise seems to have levelled off entirely, most ages and the total pointing slightly down now, so the increases still coming through the daily totals are just as we're comparing to a lower level last week rather than still in the process of rising.

    OK, that's good news. Does look like we are cresting a wave rather than riding a surge. A clear booster effect there, as well
    There really is no need to panic. The time to panic would be if we saw over 100% WoW rises in cases followed by 60-70% rises in hospitalisations. If that happens then it would likely be due to a vaccine evading variant, there's simply too much vaccine+natural immunity in the UK. I know some are keen to dismiss the idea that reopening fully from July was the right decision because they don't like the politicians who did it and do like the politicians in other countries who called us all crazy but those 7.7m infections we've had to date vs not even 20% of that level in other countries is making a huge difference.

    I've done some quick maths on it and I think without boosters we're currently sitting at population immunity of about 82%. With boosters we could be getting to about 87%, with Delta it's thought that we need to hit population immunity of about 90-93% to get to herd immunity. The government decision to open up over 40s boosters and the likely opening of over 18s boosters is to make that happen. We would still need another 9m infections to reach that with natural immunity alone, even with VE against death still looking pretty good that still adds up to a lot of deaths and a lot of people using the NHS that could be very easily prevented. 9m infections at the current rates would take about 4 months.
    V helpful, ta

    I'm still fucking furious that they delayed the vax for kids and then the boosters, when it was obvious they were needed and beneficial. I read a report a couple of days ago - can't recall where, perhaps Times or Groaniad - that confirmed your allegation. One big reason they delayed these jabs is because of idiot bien pensant doctors who wanted to give all our shots to poor countries

    Yes, let thousands of Britons die or get ill, and crash the UK health system, so YOU can feel good about yourself. Grr
    Those idiot bean peasants include the woman who made the vaccine.
    Then she's an idiot (in this case). Despite doing great work on the vax

    They weren't just idiotic they were wrong. Imagine if we HAD given away all those doses, and we were unable to do the booster campaign and jab the kids? How would they be feeling now? What would the British public think of them?

    These wanker do-gooders should be grateful they were eventually over-ruled by politicians, or they might now be in hiding
    That's an irrational and jaundiced way of putting it.

    This is a global pandemic and we have rich nations giving 3rd 'top up' jabs to their adult populations and vaccinating kids before some poorer countries have even been able to give the basic 1st jab protection to their most vulnerables.

    It's a perfectly respectable opinion - morally and pragmatically - to say that's wrong.

    To call those holding such an opinion 'wanker do-gooders' is like if I were to call you a 'selfish prick who can't see beyond the end of his nose' for holding the opposite opinion.

    Which I'd never do.
    It would be interesting to see some polling on this. I imagine the British people agree with me rather than you by about 8 to 1.

    The delay in administering boosters and child jabs has almost certainly cost hundreds if not thousands of UK lives, and all to massage the consciences of these fools
    I think it would be at least 8 to 1, yes.

    I'm not taking issue with your opinion - that we shouldn't think about poorer countries until we're completely out of the woods ourselves - what I'm taking issue with is the description of people in disagreement as fools and wankers and bean peasants who hold the view they say they hold purely in order to 'feel good about themselves' rather than because they genuinely think it makes moral and practical sense.

    This is something I've noticed as a general point. That people who don't care about something like to believe that those who say they DO care don't really. And why is this? Well imo it's our old friend - it's so as to 'feel good about themselves', or rather 'less bad'.
    No, I just think in this case they are vain, foolish and myopic. "Idiot" is a shorthand for that

    No more than that, tho. I wouldn't sling 'em in jail

    The bigger point is that the government has to put these people back in their boxes. They should not be near huge decisions like this, inflicting their insane political viewpoints on us. The boffins are there, in this case, to advise the ministers if vaccines are safe. That's it. After that they should shut up
    Advisers advise, Boris decides.
    Advisers advise, Carrie decides.
  • The world is truly messed up, the French are up for a war.

    Macron tells Putin France is ready to defend Ukraine's 'territorial integrity'

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1460309423373565956

    They're ready to send a battalion of white flags in case there's any action.
    Napoleon reached Moscow...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    kle4 said:

    For all those PBers that backed/defended Kwasi's comments.

    BEIS Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng apologizes to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards for his media comments about her, and says he 'should have chosen ... words more carefully' as he 'did not mean to express doubt about your ability to discharge your role'.Letter on gov uk

    https://twitter.com/JakubKrupa/status/1460307554593091588

    Yes he did mean to express doubt about her ability to discharge her role, that's what the words he said meant unambigously. What else could he possibly have meant? I note he does not clear that up.

    What a weaselly, cowardly, evasive letter. He'd have done better not to write it at all and stonewall it out that put out such tosh, full of how his remarks were 'interpreted' and given 'impression' of having fallen short of high standards.

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    You can get 620 (BF) on San Marino to win against England this evening!

    Oh god, can you imagine. I still remember the game years ago v San Marino when we conceded in the 1st minute and the immortal Motson commentary -

    "And it's England nil, San Marino one!"
    Didn’t we win 7-1 in the end?
    Against San Marino scoring 7 does not make up for conceding 1.
    I’ve said it several times on here, Kwasi is a grave disappointment as Minister given he is not notably thick (unlike say Williamson, Dorries etc)
    Sure you're not confusing smooth posh patter for intelligence?
  • I just made gold soup.

    I put 24 carrots in it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    edited November 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Thank god for our rules on guns.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,703

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    You can get 620 (BF) on San Marino to win against England this evening!

    Oh god, can you imagine. I still remember the game years ago v San Marino when we conceded in the 1st minute and the immortal Motson commentary -

    "And it's England nil, San Marino one!"
    Didn’t we win 7-1 in the end?
    We did.

    Still didn't qualify for the 1994 world cup.

    That bloody wanker that was the German referee in the Netherlands v England match, I hated him as much as I do Max Verstappen.
    Was that the ‘do I not like orange’ Game.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056
    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    This is the oddest delusion — that his victims were black. They were all white.
  • Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    You can get 620 (BF) on San Marino to win against England this evening!

    Oh god, can you imagine. I still remember the game years ago v San Marino when we conceded in the 1st minute and the immortal Motson commentary -

    "And it's England nil, San Marino one!"
    Didn’t we win 7-1 in the end?
    We did.

    Still didn't qualify for the 1994 world cup.

    That bloody wanker that was the German referee in the Netherlands v England match, I hated him as much as I do Max Verstappen.
    Was that the ‘do I not like orange’ Game.
    Yup.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    maaarsh said:

    Leon said:

    The Rittenhouse Trial is ghastly

    The US mainstream media is basically lying to Americans. Here is CNN describing the first of the dead rioters, Joseph Rosenbaum


    "Rosenbaum battled bipolar disorder and was homeless, according to The Washington Post, which reported he had been discharged from a hospital earlier in the day after a suicide attempt. He had spent more than a decade in prison in Arizona after being convicted of sexual conduct with a minor.

    "He was not part of the protesters nor the groups of armed men who were also there, the Post reported. He had briefly visited his fiancée after being discharged, to whom he proposed the previous winter in the middle of a busy sidewalk. It was just who he was, she told the Post: "He'd make you laugh out of nowhere.""

    That makes him sound like a guy with issues who did one bad thing but was trying to rebuild his life, and, hey, he could make you laugh out of nowhere! A joker!

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/us/kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-victims-trial/index.html

    The reality?


    "Joseph Don Rosenbaum lived in Kenosha. He had an open case for misdemeanor bail jumping that was filed on July 30, 2020.

    "The conditions of bond read: “Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn.”

    "Rosenbaum also had open misdemeanor cases for battery (domestic abuse) and disorderly conduct (domestic abuse).

    "Newly released documents obtained by Wisconsin Right Now from the Pima County (Arizona) Clerk of Courts confirm Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity with children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old. He was convicted of two amended counts as part of a plea deal. See those documents here."

    https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/


    CNN does not even mention the criminality of the other victim (multiple convictions, including the strangulation and suffocation of a woman),. It just calls him a "hero"

    This is not journalism. This is a tragedy. The Trumpite rightwing media is, of course, just as slanted, but somehow you expect more and better of an outlet like CNN

    America is in a bad place

    The problem is when journalists fell pray to an ideology that told them it was their DUTY to report stories in a way which matched their personal opinions. Once that happened impartiality never had a chance, and indeed would now feel positively immoral to them.
    Yes. What's the point of the First Amendment, protecting Free Speech, if all the Free Speech you hear is simply a pack of lies?

    The Woke media in the USA is as bad as Fox News in a dark mood. It dishes out falsehoods daily. No one ever says Sorry, no one ever suffers for their fibs.

    This is why Trumpites think there is a conspiracy against them, and everything they hear is lies. It is because they are often right.

    How does the USA drag itself out of this terrible pit?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
  • @kinabalu you're wrong to suggest the JCVI should have considered the benefits of sending vaccines to the third world instead of using them ourselves - that was literally outside of their remit.

    Just as the JCVI report didn't consider the indirect effects on education etc because it wasn't their prerogative to consider that, nor is the indirect effects on vaccines being used overseas instead of domestically in their remit too.

    Anyone who wanted to argue for vaccine doses to be used overseas is welcome to do so - but should have recused themselves from the JCVI first. The question of weighing up options like that is for politicians, not the JCVI.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,703

    Right, I'm going balls deep on the Tories losing Old Bexley & Sidcup.

    The Bexley by-election candidate says he might just keep his job as a Mayfair-based fund manager if he gets elected because, don't worry, he's not a "career politician"

    https://twitter.com/Tony_Diver/status/1460302579427119109

    are the Tories doing this deliberately ? It’s own goal after own goal after own goal

  • Angela Rayner
    @AngelaRayner
    ·
    2h
    If you’ve had your Universal Credit cut by £1,000 by the Conservatives and had to get a second job to feed your family then please send me an email 😊.

    I’d love to hear how you feel about Conservative MPs having second jobs on £1,000 an hour whilst taking £££ out of your pocket!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Case rise seems to have levelled off entirely, most ages and the total pointing slightly down now, so the increases still coming through the daily totals are just as we're comparing to a lower level last week rather than still in the process of rising.

    OK, that's good news. Does look like we are cresting a wave rather than riding a surge. A clear booster effect there, as well
    There really is no need to panic. The time to panic would be if we saw over 100% WoW rises in cases followed by 60-70% rises in hospitalisations. If that happens then it would likely be due to a vaccine evading variant, there's simply too much vaccine+natural immunity in the UK. I know some are keen to dismiss the idea that reopening fully from July was the right decision because they don't like the politicians who did it and do like the politicians in other countries who called us all crazy but those 7.7m infections we've had to date vs not even 20% of that level in other countries is making a huge difference.

    I've done some quick maths on it and I think without boosters we're currently sitting at population immunity of about 82%. With boosters we could be getting to about 87%, with Delta it's thought that we need to hit population immunity of about 90-93% to get to herd immunity. The government decision to open up over 40s boosters and the likely opening of over 18s boosters is to make that happen. We would still need another 9m infections to reach that with natural immunity alone, even with VE against death still looking pretty good that still adds up to a lot of deaths and a lot of people using the NHS that could be very easily prevented. 9m infections at the current rates would take about 4 months.
    V helpful, ta

    I'm still fucking furious that they delayed the vax for kids and then the boosters, when it was obvious they were needed and beneficial. I read a report a couple of days ago - can't recall where, perhaps Times or Groaniad - that confirmed your allegation. One big reason they delayed these jabs is because of idiot bien pensant doctors who wanted to give all our shots to poor countries

    Yes, let thousands of Britons die or get ill, and crash the UK health system, so YOU can feel good about yourself. Grr
    Those idiot bean peasants include the woman who made the vaccine.
    There was (and is) a sub-group of JCVI who are opposed to child vaccination and boosters on the grounds that they think the vaccinations should go to the developing world. There is also a sub-group that doesn't want child vaccination on the basis that the benefit to the child, themselves, isn't big enough.

    Not sure how these subgroups overlap - but they probably do.

    The issue was the JCVI was trying for unanimity in their decisions.
    There would be an overlap there, I'd have thought. AIRI, they didn't recommend against, they kind of sat on the fence and said it's up to govt, didn't they?
    That was because the sub-groups opposed to the child vaccinations and boosters effectively "hung the jury" - because JCVI wanted unanimity, the minority held up the publication of a report, by perpetually asking for more data.

    I have been told that the relevant Minster finally told them to either produce a report. Or be disbanded.
    Worst of both worlds then maybe. If we were doing it, best to crack on. But the government could have been more decisive, couldn't they? It being their decision. Them being the government.
    I know you are not a fan of the current government. I’d say on this narrow point you are being unfair. In fact, Javid did pretty much what you suggested. Up til then the government were waiting for the jcvi to actually make a call, and they refused to do so.Mhra had ruled on safety months before. It was the jcvi that caused the hold up, not a dithering government.
    Ok, could be. I didn't follow it in too much detail. But as a general principle, I'm less than impressed by 'blame the wanker scientists' rhetoric. They've worked hard, done their best for us during this difficult time. The government calls the shots. If one of the shots they call is to defer to advisors that's still a shot called.
  • Harsh.


    Which two were left?
    Too far back for ‘The best of James Blunt’...
    Is there a “Best” of James Blunt?
  • HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
    What about this chap? Is he a pathetic shit as well or just misunderstood and bullied?

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/16370652/timberview-high-school-shooter-tim-simpkins-25k-gofundme-trauma/amp/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    maaarsh said:

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Case rise seems to have levelled off entirely, most ages and the total pointing slightly down now, so the increases still coming through the daily totals are just as we're comparing to a lower level last week rather than still in the process of rising.

    OK, that's good news. Does look like we are cresting a wave rather than riding a surge. A clear booster effect there, as well
    There really is no need to panic. The time to panic would be if we saw over 100% WoW rises in cases followed by 60-70% rises in hospitalisations. If that happens then it would likely be due to a vaccine evading variant, there's simply too much vaccine+natural immunity in the UK. I know some are keen to dismiss the idea that reopening fully from July was the right decision because they don't like the politicians who did it and do like the politicians in other countries who called us all crazy but those 7.7m infections we've had to date vs not even 20% of that level in other countries is making a huge difference.

    I've done some quick maths on it and I think without boosters we're currently sitting at population immunity of about 82%. With boosters we could be getting to about 87%, with Delta it's thought that we need to hit population immunity of about 90-93% to get to herd immunity. The government decision to open up over 40s boosters and the likely opening of over 18s boosters is to make that happen. We would still need another 9m infections to reach that with natural immunity alone, even with VE against death still looking pretty good that still adds up to a lot of deaths and a lot of people using the NHS that could be very easily prevented. 9m infections at the current rates would take about 4 months.
    V helpful, ta

    I'm still fucking furious that they delayed the vax for kids and then the boosters, when it was obvious they were needed and beneficial. I read a report a couple of days ago - can't recall where, perhaps Times or Groaniad - that confirmed your allegation. One big reason they delayed these jabs is because of idiot bien pensant doctors who wanted to give all our shots to poor countries

    Yes, let thousands of Britons die or get ill, and crash the UK health system, so YOU can feel good about yourself. Grr
    Those idiot bean peasants include the woman who made the vaccine.
    There was (and is) a sub-group of JCVI who are opposed to child vaccination and boosters on the grounds that they think the vaccinations should go to the developing world. There is also a sub-group that doesn't want child vaccination on the basis that the benefit to the child, themselves, isn't big enough.

    Not sure how these subgroups overlap - but they probably do.

    The issue was the JCVI was trying for unanimity in their decisions.
    There would be an overlap there, I'd have thought. AIRI, they didn't recommend against, they kind of sat on the fence and said it's up to govt, didn't they?
    That was because the sub-groups opposed to the child vaccinations and boosters effectively "hung the jury" - because JCVI wanted unanimity, the minority held up the publication of a report, by perpetually asking for more data.

    I have been told that the relevant Minster finally told them to either produce a report. Or be disbanded.
    Worst of both worlds then maybe. If we were doing it, best to crack on. But the government could have been more decisive, couldn't they? It being their decision. Them being the government.
    I know you are not a fan of the current government. I’d say on this narrow point you are being unfair. In fact, Javid did pretty much what you suggested. Up til then the government were waiting for the jcvi to actually make a call, and they refused to do so.Mhra had ruled on safety months before. It was the jcvi that caused the hold up, not a dithering government.
    Ok, could be. I didn't follow it in too much detail. But as a general principle, I'm less than impressed by 'blame the wanker scientists' rhetoric. They've worked hard, done their best for us during this difficult time. The government calls the shots. If one of the shots they call is to defer to advisors that's still a shot called.
    I think this is a very specific case. With limited vaccine supplies the jcvi made some excellent calls early on (longer between doses, despite the outrage from some, and the sequencing). Now we have more than enough supply it’s arguable we no longer need them. The mhra rules on safety, the government then chooses what to do. It was pretty clear from some of the members media showings what they were up to.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878

    Harsh.


    Which two were left?
    Too far back for ‘The best of James Blunt’...
    Is there a “Best” of James Blunt?
    Has to be surely? Or is it ALL identically awful?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    edited November 2021
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    This is the oddest delusion — that his victims were black. They were all white.
    It's because of the way the case was politicised as being about white supremacy.

    image
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,703

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
    What about this chap? Is he a pathetic shit as well or just misunderstood and bullied?

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/16370652/timberview-high-school-shooter-tim-simpkins-25k-gofundme-trauma/amp/
    Not sure what you're trying to get me to download there ...
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    This is the oddest delusion — that his victims were black. They were all white.
    At the end of this day, this is another form of guerilla marketing. The customer base that buys Ben and Jerry’s is likely to be well off and liberal so this sort of tweet panders to the base instincts of their customers while making B&J look good to the people who buy their product.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Harsh.


    Which two were left?
    Too far back for ‘The best of James Blunt’...
    Is there a “Best” of James Blunt?
    Has to be surely? Or is it ALL identically awful?
    1973 is not as bad as the rest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
    The state line thing is a bit of a red herring. The journey from Antioch to Kenosha is about a 30 minute drive of 20 miles. Antioch Illinois like a dormitory burb of Kenosha Wisconsin

    Kenosha is also Rittenhouse's hometown, where he worked and much of his family lived, and he had watched the rioters burn it for days. That is the context. But it does not excuse him marching into the riot with a gun. If he hadn't done that, probably no one would have died

    There is also persuasive video (unproven, as far as I know, but plausible) of Rittenhouse promising to shoot rioters a few days before.

    A messy trial with horrific potential to provoke both sides. He will likely be acquitted

  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
    What about this chap? Is he a pathetic shit as well or just misunderstood and bullied?

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/16370652/timberview-high-school-shooter-tim-simpkins-25k-gofundme-trauma/amp/
    Not sure what you're trying to get me to download there ...
    I think it’s obvious from the address no…high school shooter…go fund me…but let me save you the pain. Timothy Simpkins shot 4 people at a high school and is now out on $75K bail and allegedly partying whilst his victims are in a hospital. But no word from CNN et al…couldn’t be to do with the fact he’s black, could it?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    Lead now at 1% down from 6%

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Labour Lead in our GB Voting Intention for the Second Time This Year.

    Full results (15 Nov):

    Labour 37% (-1)
    Conservative 36% (-)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-)
    Reform UK 4% (+1)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 10 Nov

    Different pollsters, though? The 6 point lead was ComRes.

    Sir Keir ahead on net satisfaction now, -9 playing Boris’s -10, though Boris still leads on Gross Positives, 35 to 26, which I think is the more important metric
    My apologies I got that wrong


    However this part really stands out

    Pluralities of respondents say they do not know which of the two ‘tells the truth’ (46%), ‘is creative’ (43%), ‘prioritises the environment’ (40%), or ‘has the better foreign policy strategy’ (40%).

    46% do not know which of the two tells the truth !!!!!!!
    It takes a big man to apologise
    They don't call him BigG for nothing.

    Ahem.
    How do we know he isn’t just sitting in a particularly small chair?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
    What about this chap? Is he a pathetic shit as well or just misunderstood and bullied?

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/16370652/timberview-high-school-shooter-tim-simpkins-25k-gofundme-trauma/amp/
    I and the public know
    What all schoolchildren learn
    Those to whom evil is done
    Do evil in return
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    @kinabalu you're wrong to suggest the JCVI should have considered the benefits of sending vaccines to the third world instead of using them ourselves - that was literally outside of their remit.

    Just as the JCVI report didn't consider the indirect effects on education etc because it wasn't their prerogative to consider that, nor is the indirect effects on vaccines being used overseas instead of domestically in their remit too.

    Anyone who wanted to argue for vaccine doses to be used overseas is welcome to do so - but should have recused themselves from the JCVI first. The question of weighing up options like that is for politicians, not the JCVI.

    Good point if true and it does sound true. But I'm not saying they in particular should have considered it. Or if I did, let's pretend I didn't. Because, yes, it's more a government decision to take. But my main point isn't this anyway. It's simply that people who think the rich world is indulging in vaccine gluttony at the expense of the poor world shouldn't be called wankers or bean peasants or the like by those who feel otherwise. They should be respectfully disagreed with.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,087
    edited November 2021

    rpjs said:

    I can't see the sense in banning the sale of internal combustion engines from 2030, and not having a comprehensive plan to electrify every railway line.

    The question of which technology is going to be used is still up in the air.

    My guess is that it will be battery packs on trains, with charging from overhead in various areas.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/11/can-we-run-our-trains-using-big-batteries/ - that is for the US, where the train usage is much less favourable for electrification.
    Ah, I suppose that makes sense. Maybe you could have trains charge up from overheads on the approach and departure from stations, and that would mean they could use power from the overhead wires for the most energy-intensive phase of the acceleration from the station.
    Merseyrail are going to order some battery-pack trains so they can extend their services from the edge of their electrified network: their trials indicate that the trains can operate for up to twenty miles on non-electrified track before needing further charge. The recent West Midlands tram extension uses battery-pack tech to avoid having to put up catenary in an architecturally-sensitive area. And of course there is the Parry People Movers, which use flywheel rather than battery storage and which have been happily shuttling back and forth between Stourbridge Junction and Stourbridge Town for over a decade now.
    Flywheels get funky when turning corners is involved. How do they deal with that?
    Don't bus flywheels tend to be horizontal spin on a vertical axis, which I think may help with that?

    Or contra-rotating flywheels.
  • Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:

    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Yeah I'm shocked that the PM who tore up manifesto pledges on foreign aid and the triple lock did the same on levelling up. Shocked, I tell you.

  • Angela Rayner
    @AngelaRayner
    ·
    2h
    If you’ve had your Universal Credit cut by £1,000 by the Conservatives and had to get a second job to feed your family then please send me an email 😊.

    I’d love to hear how you feel about Conservative MPs having second jobs on £1,000 an hour whilst taking £££ out of your pocket!

    Second job?

    Anyone with a full time first job is better off with the taper relief than they were with the temporary UC uplift.

    Anyone working full time and with a second job is MUCH better off with the taper relief than they were. Since the taper relief will apply to both jobs.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited November 2021
    OT. For those who enjoy watching TV commercials one of the best directors around died last week aged 50. Here's a favourite. One for Axe/Lynx.Scroll down to number 5. Ringan Ledwidge.

    https://rianswart.co.za/my-favourite-ringan-ledwidge-commercials/
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
    The state line thing is a bit of a red herring. The journey from Antioch to Kenosha is about a 30 minute drive of 20 miles. Antioch Illinois like a dormitory burb of Kenosha Wisconsin

    Kenosha is also Rittenhouse's hometown, where he worked and much of his family lived, and he had watched the rioters burn it for days. That is the context. But it does not excuse him marching into the riot with a gun. If he hadn't done that, probably no one would have died

    There is also persuasive video (unproven, as far as I know, but plausible) of Rittenhouse promising to shoot rioters a few days before.

    A messy trial with horrific potential to provoke both sides. He will likely be acquitted

    He will likely get acquitted of the main charges but convicted on lesser ones, which is what the prosecution was angling for when it asked (and got) permission from the judge that Rittenhouse could be convicted of lesser charges if he got off the main ones
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,703

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:

    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Yeah I'm shocked that the PM who tore up manifesto pledges on foreign aid and the triple lock did the same on levelling up. Shocked, I tell you.
    Yeah, it’s so out of character. Where were the signs ?
  • carnforth said:

    RH1992 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Post-Brexit immigration rules lead to collapse in EU school trips to UK https://on.ft.com/3wO3omx

    I can't access that piece but it will be because the operators cannot get work permits for those who accompany the children.

    In the ski tourism industry it is career-ending for ski instructors. I know one who worked in Verbier every winter but now cannot due to Brexit.

    It is a little more encouraging for chalet-staff. The chalet companies, who usually employ young Brits doing a gap year, are having to advertise positions locally (i.e. in France) for EU staff first before offering jobs to the British. Then they apply for a work permit for them, which enables them to get a visa from the French Embassy.

    The end result is usually OK because French locals whilst happy to be a chalet cook do not want to do the other work particular to chalet girls/boys (e.g. sorting out punters' problems and cleaning the loos).
    Hang on: do you mean that schools sending pupils to the UK are paying their teachers to go? I normally end up out of pocket after the trips I’ve done.
    Your paid a basic aren't you? If you accompany the children you will be working not touristing. Same goes for the employees of the school trip company that the schools tend to contract out to these days. They are all workers and have lost the right to work in the EU without a visa - which they either cannot get or because it is too much bloody hassle/costly.
    I’ve done trips to some places I don’t think were in the EU, like Mongolia, and there were no problems with anything more than a basic visa.

    I don’t get paid to go, and most trips I’ve been on have been holidays/weekends.
    Yeah, I had a sixth form school trip to Washington D.C, and everyone had to have a passport and an ESTA (this was just over 10 years ago, showing my age here). The teacher organised everyone getting their ESTA on one weekday evening in the sixth form library and everything was sorted.

    Forgive me for not being all that sympathetic. If schools in some EU nations are only willing to travel on group passports or national ID cards then that's a pretty insular world view.

    Other non-EEA/EFTA/Schengen countries would likely treat those schools the same as the UK treats them, so why is it that the UK is expected to move on this?

    Having said that, I do think that there should be a visa waiver for educational purposes. We shouldn't be making it more difficult for refugee children who have ended up in an EU country to visit than the actual nationals there.
    It is not an insular view, just the practicalities. Many Euro-pupils don't have passports because they are not needed for travel round Europe. Now that passports are needed to come to Britain, it is simpler to go to a different country than to ask two dozen families to acquire passports, and possibly visas. Perhaps HMG can come up with an exception for school trips.
    If an EU citizen holding only an ID card flies to Dublin, they can presumably take a ferry to the UK with just their ID card. Or, indeed wander over the border to Northern Ireland.

    I assume our decision to scrap ID cards for entry into the UK was to do with security, but it sounds like some sort of Group passport for school trips with each child carrying just an ID card is the way to ease this problem.
    I do not think there was any such decision; it simply fell out as a natural, if unforeseen, consequence of Brexit. As you say, it could easily be fixed.
    Forseeable, and forseen;

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1460320803162148876?t=WJZtgxAW5vUxrAAm_UA4OA&s=19

    But Control Of Borders has been the guiding light of Brexit-as-enacted.

    https://twitter.com/ukhomeoffice/status/1443864087180595202?t=eXMTWR5cLUpcfE0ZLCy0Zw&s=19

    And if that's what the country wants, so be it. But let's not kid ourselves that it won't lead to more bureaucracy and narrower horizons.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    The world is truly messed up, the French are up for a war.

    Macron tells Putin France is ready to defend Ukraine's 'territorial integrity'

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1460309423373565956

    They're ready to send a battalion of white flags in case there's any action.
    Napoleon reached Moscow...
    I was extra in a play called white red and green based on a book with a different name. White Guards? main thing I learnt, because of the ethnic mix in southern Russia, there was a lot of different sides in the civil war not just two or even three. And because of the Serf system many of the poorer peasants fought against each other. In the play three peasant people who grew up together beside the Don but now fighting on different sides, meet up in the woods by accident nursing various wounds.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    MrEd said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
    The state line thing is a bit of a red herring. The journey from Antioch to Kenosha is about a 30 minute drive of 20 miles. Antioch Illinois like a dormitory burb of Kenosha Wisconsin

    Kenosha is also Rittenhouse's hometown, where he worked and much of his family lived, and he had watched the rioters burn it for days. That is the context. But it does not excuse him marching into the riot with a gun. If he hadn't done that, probably no one would have died

    There is also persuasive video (unproven, as far as I know, but plausible) of Rittenhouse promising to shoot rioters a few days before.

    A messy trial with horrific potential to provoke both sides. He will likely be acquitted

    He will likely get acquitted of the main charges but convicted on lesser ones, which is what the prosecution was angling for when it asked (and got) permission from the judge that Rittenhouse could be convicted of lesser charges if he got off the main ones
    Which, from what I have seen, would be a fair outcome. He obviously acted in self defence, but he should not have been there in the first place, with a rifle.

    My despair is directed, as I say, at the culture wars surrounding this. American media outlets have abandoned any pretence at telling the truth. They now advance propaganda. On both sides
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited November 2021
    Liverpool bomb suspect named as 32 year old Emad Al Swealmeen

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-59298586
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    Rittenhouse was a pathetic little sh*t who went out looking to kill someone.

    However, as I said the other day, it looks as though he *didn't* carry the gun across state lines. He got someone else to buy it for him in the state (?Wisconsin?) in which he committed the crime. Which IMO makes it look even more premeditated.
    The state line thing is a bit of a red herring. The journey from Antioch to Kenosha is about a 30 minute drive of 20 miles. Antioch Illinois like a dormitory burb of Kenosha Wisconsin

    Kenosha is also Rittenhouse's hometown, where he worked and much of his family lived, and he had watched the rioters burn it for days. That is the context. But it does not excuse him marching into the riot with a gun. If he hadn't done that, probably no one would have died

    There is also persuasive video (unproven, as far as I know, but plausible) of Rittenhouse promising to shoot rioters a few days before.

    A messy trial with horrific potential to provoke both sides. He will likely be acquitted

    He will likely get acquitted of the main charges but convicted on lesser ones, which is what the prosecution was angling for when it asked (and got) permission from the judge that Rittenhouse could be convicted of lesser charges if he got off the main ones
    Which, from what I have seen, would be a fair outcome. He obviously acted in self defence, but he should not have been there in the first place, with a rifle.

    My despair is directed, as I say, at the culture wars surrounding this. American media outlets have abandoned any pretence at telling the truth. They now advance propaganda. On both sides
    They've called in the national guard to deal with the announcement of the verdict so it could be the trigger for further civil unrest in America.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,087
    Interesting clear angle from Ben Bradley on R4, revolving around Toton Station, which is the one with the big investment proposal around it. As opposed to EM Parkway, which is the airport change station in a field.

    According to him, Toton is required for him to call it OK. No Toton = a failure.

    Being very public about it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280
    "Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    New 2022 generic congressional ballot from ABC News and the Washington Post:

    • 𝗚𝗢𝗣: 51%
    • 𝗗𝗲𝗺: 41%

    This is the largest lead Republicans have held in this poll over the past 40 years (!!!)

    👉🏻 http://abcn.ws/3ccbrAg"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    ping said:

    Liverpool bomb suspect named as 32 year old Emad Al Swealmeen

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-59298586

    For the sake of Priti Patel I do hope he didn't get here by boat from Boulogne
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,853
    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
  • I just made gold soup.

    I put 24 carrots in it.

    What's up, duck?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    MattW said:

    Interesting clear angle from Ben Bradley on R4, revolving around Toton Station, which is the one with the big investment proposal around it. As opposed to EM Parkway, which is the airport change station in a field.

    According to him, Toton is required for him to call it OK. No Toton = a failure.

    Being very public about it.

    And he's right. The East Midlands Parkway option was previously looked at and rejected on the grounds it would be (a) at least as expensive (b) wouldn't deliver extra capacity and (c) was in a damn stupid location anyway.

    But that was when intelligent people were looking at the plans, before idiots like Shapps got involved.
  • The world is truly messed up, the French are up for a war.

    Macron tells Putin France is ready to defend Ukraine's 'territorial integrity'

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1460309423373565956

    They're ready to send a battalion of white flags in case there's any action.
    Napoleon reached Moscow...
    I was extra in a play called white red and green based on a book with a different name. White Guards? main thing I learnt, because of the ethnic mix in southern Russia, there was a lot of different sides in the civil war not just two or even three. And because of the Serf system many of the poorer peasants fought against each other. In the play three peasant people who grew up together beside the Don but now fighting on different sides, meet up in the woods by accident nursing various wounds.
    Assume it was The White Guard by Bulgakov which was also a play. A good read, though his much better known The Master and Margarita is a different kettle of fish.
  • IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    Lead now at 1% down from 6%

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Labour Lead in our GB Voting Intention for the Second Time This Year.

    Full results (15 Nov):

    Labour 37% (-1)
    Conservative 36% (-)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-)
    Reform UK 4% (+1)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 10 Nov

    Different pollsters, though? The 6 point lead was ComRes.

    Sir Keir ahead on net satisfaction now, -9 playing Boris’s -10, though Boris still leads on Gross Positives, 35 to 26, which I think is the more important metric
    My apologies I got that wrong


    However this part really stands out

    Pluralities of respondents say they do not know which of the two ‘tells the truth’ (46%), ‘is creative’ (43%), ‘prioritises the environment’ (40%), or ‘has the better foreign policy strategy’ (40%).

    46% do not know which of the two tells the truth !!!!!!!
    It takes a big man to apologise
    They don't call him BigG for nothing.

    Ahem.
    How do we know he isn’t just sitting in a particularly small chair?
    Believe you me at 17.5 stone and 6'1, I do not sit in a small chair

    I have been this size and weight most my adult life

    And yes, I do apologise when I am wrong
  • Roger said:

    OT. For those who enjoy watching TV commercials one of the best directors around died last week aged 50. Here's a favourite. One for Axe/Lynx.Scroll down to number 5. Ringan Ledwidge.

    https://rianswart.co.za/my-favourite-ringan-ledwidge-commercials/

    I never watch tv commercials, they are a waste of space
  • Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    The eM180? Half an hour in and a truck pulls the wires down. After the repair them the same happens. And again again. etc.

    Hydrogen for trucks.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,703
    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Liverpool bomb suspect named as 32 year old Emad Al Swealmeen

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-59298586

    For the sake of Priti Patel I do hope he didn't get here by boat from Boulogne
    It would serve her right if he did.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002
    edited November 2021
    Taz said:

    Right, I'm going balls deep on the Tories losing Old Bexley & Sidcup.

    The Bexley by-election candidate says he might just keep his job as a Mayfair-based fund manager if he gets elected because, don't worry, he's not a "career politician"

    https://twitter.com/Tony_Diver/status/1460302579427119109

    are the Tories doing this deliberately ? It’s own goal after own goal after own goal
    I assume it is announce the bad news when so far away from the GE

    I would appreciate someone explaining the actual cost of building the east leg to Leeds and when actual high speed trains would run on the lines, as I have no knowledge of these facts

    Also will labour commit to building it
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Liverpool bomb suspect named as 32 year old Emad Al Swealmeen

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-59298586

    For the sake of Priti Patel I do hope he didn't get here by boat from Boulogne
    It would serve her right if he did.
    Wouldn't be good for Macron either.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Liverpool bomb suspect named as 32 year old Emad Al Swealmeen

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-59298586

    For the sake of Priti Patel I do hope he didn't get here by boat from Boulogne
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10205013/Police-suicide-bomber-blew-taxi-outside-Liverpools-Womens-Hospital.html

    A suicide bomber who died inside a taxi as it blew up outside a hospital in Liverpool on Remembrance Sunday was a Syrian asylum seeker who converted to Christianity and was once arrested for carrying a knife, MailOnline can reveal.

    Enzo Almeni, 32, is thought to have suffered from mental health problems and was sectioned in around 2014 after being caught for brandishing a knife in central Liverpool, according to friends.
  • Roger said:

    OT. For those who enjoy watching TV commercials one of the best directors around died last week aged 50. Here's a favourite. One for Axe/Lynx.Scroll down to number 5. Ringan Ledwidge.

    https://rianswart.co.za/my-favourite-ringan-ledwidge-commercials/

    I never watch tv commercials, they are a waste of space
    There are a couple in Roger's link that are worth a watch. Consider them very short films rather than adverts. Roger recommended number 5 but as an old sentimentalist, the historical themes of 6 and 7 also appeal.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280
    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments
  • Wonder what the chances are of the government approving Crossrail 2 at some point?

    Would be adding petrol to the fire if they do.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,853
    edited November 2021

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    The eM180? Half an hour in and a truck pulls the wires down. After the repair them the same happens. And again again. etc.

    Hydrogen for trucks.
    You might well be right about that, but we'll see. HS2E is solving yesterday's problems tomorrow.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,836
    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Hang on. He orders acquittal cos he doesn't like the law?
  • Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    If he has a problem with the statute he should stand down from the bench and run for office to get it changed. 🤦‍♂️
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,087
    Tories by county in the HS2 M/NE Zone

    Derbys 9 (Lab: 2)
    Notts - 8 (Lab: 3)
    Yorks & Thumber: 26 (Lab:28)

    Not sure how relevant that is.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Andy_JS said:

    "Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    New 2022 generic congressional ballot from ABC News and the Washington Post:

    • 𝗚𝗢𝗣: 51%
    • 𝗗𝗲𝗺: 41%

    This is the largest lead Republicans have held in this poll over the past 40 years (!!!)

    👉🏻 http://abcn.ws/3ccbrAg"

    I am assuming that there are not any election calculators that would convert that in to a projected number of R and Ds because the new boundaries in many states have not been confirmed yet?

    but at a guess 40 or 50 R majority?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280
    BigRich said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    New 2022 generic congressional ballot from ABC News and the Washington Post:

    • 𝗚𝗢𝗣: 51%
    • 𝗗𝗲𝗺: 41%

    This is the largest lead Republicans have held in this poll over the past 40 years (!!!)

    👉🏻 http://abcn.ws/3ccbrAg"

    I am assuming that there are not any election calculators that would convert that in to a projected number of R and Ds because the new boundaries in many states have not been confirmed yet?

    but at a guess 40 or 50 R majority?
    Sounds about right.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,280
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Hang on. He orders acquittal cos he doesn't like the law?
    Doesn't necessarily mean that, it could be that the law as written is confusing.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Roger said:

    OT. For those who enjoy watching TV commercials one of the best directors around died last week aged 50. Here's a favourite. One for Axe/Lynx.Scroll down to number 5. Ringan Ledwidge.

    https://rianswart.co.za/my-favourite-ringan-ledwidge-commercials/

    I never watch tv commercials, they are a waste of space

    Roger said:

    OT. For those who enjoy watching TV commercials one of the best directors around died last week aged 50. Here's a favourite. One for Axe/Lynx.Scroll down to number 5. Ringan Ledwidge.

    https://rianswart.co.za/my-favourite-ringan-ledwidge-commercials/

    I never watch tv commercials, they are a waste of space
    TV ads are part of our comedy culture.

    The Hamlet cigar ads were sublime, although my favourite from that genre was the Carlos Fandango Panama cigar ad. The Rossiter/Collins Cinzano ads were comedy vignettes in their own right. I also like (Adam West style) Batman taking an Austin Metro instead of the Batmobile through rush-hour Gotham City to ppppick up a penguin.
    In Larry Niven's novel The Mote in God's Eye (1974), sci fi set well in the future, there's a tech billionaire character who has made all his money by patenting an ad blocker for TVs.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653



    Roger said:

    OT. For those who enjoy watching TV commercials one of the best directors around died last week aged 50. Here's a favourite. One for Axe/Lynx.Scroll down to number 5. Ringan Ledwidge.

    https://rianswart.co.za/my-favourite-ringan-ledwidge-commercials/

    I never watch tv commercials, they are a waste of space
    TV ads are part of our comedy culture.

    The Hamlet cigar ads were sublime, although my favourite from that genre was the Carlos Fandango Panama cigar ad. The Rossiter/Collins Cinzano ads were comedy vignettes in their own right. I also like (Adam West style) Batman taking an Austin Metro instead of the Batmobile through rush-hour Gotham City to ppppick up a penguin.
    For me it's the Kiaora and the Um Bongo adverts:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS44El_V7SM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYj5o4kQsXs

    It's too orangy for crows.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Hang on. He orders acquittal cos he doesn't like the law?
    Presumably on the grounds of constitutionality?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Stocky said:



    Roger said:

    OT. For those who enjoy watching TV commercials one of the best directors around died last week aged 50. Here's a favourite. One for Axe/Lynx.Scroll down to number 5. Ringan Ledwidge.

    https://rianswart.co.za/my-favourite-ringan-ledwidge-commercials/

    I never watch tv commercials, they are a waste of space
    TV ads are part of our comedy culture.

    The Hamlet cigar ads were sublime, although my favourite from that genre was the Carlos Fandango Panama cigar ad. The Rossiter/Collins Cinzano ads were comedy vignettes in their own right. I also like (Adam West style) Batman taking an Austin Metro instead of the Batmobile through rush-hour Gotham City to ppppick up a penguin.
    For me it's the Kiaora and the Um Bongo adverts:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS44El_V7SM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYj5o4kQsXs

    It's too orangy for crows.

    The latter being perhaps being a leeetle bit racist? Or am I being “woke”?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Whichever side wins, the loser is the remaining credibility of the American justice system.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,742
    Andy_JS said:

    BigRich said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Frank Luntz
    @FrankLuntz
    New 2022 generic congressional ballot from ABC News and the Washington Post:

    • 𝗚𝗢𝗣: 51%
    • 𝗗𝗲𝗺: 41%

    This is the largest lead Republicans have held in this poll over the past 40 years (!!!)

    👉🏻 http://abcn.ws/3ccbrAg"

    I am assuming that there are not any election calculators that would convert that in to a projected number of R and Ds because the new boundaries in many states have not been confirmed yet?

    but at a guess 40 or 50 R majority?
    Sounds about right.
    The very similar 1994 and 2010 Republican wins were both on the GOP wining 51.5% of the vote and the Democrats 45%. The latter produced a 48-seat majority for the Republicans so if the gap is even wider, could we push that to an over-50 majority?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse dismissed a gun charge against the 18-year-old defendant on Monday, before closing arguments even began.

    Discussing instructions that would be provided to the jury, judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, saying that he had a “big problem” with the gun statute as written."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/15/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-attorneys-closing-arguments

    Hang on. He orders acquittal cos he doesn't like the law?
    Doesn't necessarily mean that, it could be that the law as written is confusing.
    I think this particular judge gets confused writing his own name ...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,087
    edited November 2021

    Taz said:

    HS2 shitshow has gone down well with Yorks Post:



    Mark Casci
    @MarkCasci
    ·
    4h
    The column I hoped I would never write:
    "Any notion of levelling up is destroyed."
    "We cannot improve the lot of some of the country’s poorest communities by cutting them off."
    "Yorkshire simply cannot trust this Government, now or ever again." #HS2

    Nor the North East. We would have benefited too from the east coast leg.

    When Boris campaigned for leader he promised to invest in the North and redress the balance. His words are empty and hollow. Once again we get nothing while Birmingham is turned into a suburb of London. It’s a joke. Red Wall Tories must be aghast.
    Not many I've spoken to round here were overly keen. I don't think there was much attachment to it.

    The route was compromised, the location of the stations was compromised, and it wasn't really that much of an improvement on the ECML for most. Getting to Sheffield or Manchester on a decent train would be good. Getting to London in 80 minutes instead of 90, who cares?

    The outcome of the electric motorway experiment on the M180 will be much more interesting.
    The eM180? Half an hour in and a truck pulls the wires down. After the repair them the same happens. And again again. etc.

    Hydrogen for trucks.
    You might well be right about that, but we'll see. HS2E is solving yesterday's problems tomorrow.
    Is it?

    AFAICS both legs extended to at least Glasgow / Edinburgh are the best option we have of getting people out of their aeroplanes.

    (Except Mr Shapps, who will have more time to spend with his imminently, perhaps.)

    Interesting that Ben Bradley's chosen stat was that travel time Nottingham to Birmingham would be reduced from 72 to 27 minutes.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    MrEd said:

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Thank god for our rules on not commenting on an ongoing trial. For example:

    https://twitter.com/benandjerrys/status/1458964448924819460
    "Ben & Jerry's
    @benandjerrys
    The #RittenhouseTrial displays yet again that our “justice” system is racist.
    How would this trial be going if he was a Black 17 yr old that crossed state lines illegally carrying an AR-15 and shot 3 white protesters?
    We need real justice in the legal system. This isn’t it.
    1:06 am · 12 Nov 2021"

    This is the oddest delusion — that his victims were black. They were all white.
    At the end of this day, this is another form of guerilla marketing. The customer base that buys Ben and Jerry’s is likely to be well off and liberal so this sort of tweet panders to the base instincts of their customers while making B&J look good to the people who buy their product.
    But the B&J post is not about the colour of the victims, but the colour of the perpetrator. And the question is valid. How would this trial be going if the defendant were black, not white. Even if the victims were black, not white.

    It is a valid question, and the answer is ugly, if we are honest.
This discussion has been closed.