You have a visceral dislike of Boris but on this he is correct
France has a duty of care to these migrants as much as we have, and certainly the two countries should be conducting joint patrols to prevent loss of life at sea
No. Boris just doing words as usual, no action. Truth is he knows he signs seven out of ten up to work here, he just wastes time before doing that. He should send Patel down on beaches to tell them where to start work on Monday, it will save our tax payers money
What is your evidence for your claim 70% are signed up to work here
The BBC said it. Are they a bot too or are you too busy to watch the news?
The figures suggest only about a third of those arriving are not deemed to be refugees.
The piece does not even include the word "work", never mind the rest of it.
I think you mean I said work now? What happens then after the four years wait? They stay and they work just like they hoped when they got in the dingy, I think. Or pay for it. Is the news wrong that after long wait seven out of ten do stay and work?
Sometimes it is said international criminal gangs are making it happen. But no one really says that enough in your opinion? The gangs have money and threat. Lots of people desperate to come here are coming in dingie boats on a sort of scale that’s a successful business. 4 years for processing and then 7 out of ten stay. Meantime where do they live, and how do they eat and live? And do locals embrace them. And how much tax payer money is all this? And it’s bad if the gangs behind it are laughing at us and rolling in it.
I still think I am right. You saying every single one is so complicated it takes 4 years? There are no quick wins?
Tell me where I have this all wrong?
My church does quite a bit with refugees, and yes, 4 years is probably correct. It is a painful wait and needlessly prolonged.. In the meantime they do get a modest amount of benefits, and no right to work.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
Starmer should offer to lead us back into a reformed Single Market (with reformed Free Movement) he kills off YES and thrashes the Tories, gaining the Remainers
I'd probably vote for it
That is LD policy already. Your sandals are in the post.
How are you going to persuade the European Commission to reform the single market?
They won't. This is what so many pro-EU advocates fail to understand. The EU cannot and will not reform to accommodate truculent members or potential members. You either take the EU as it is as a whole or you leave it. There is no middle ground. Never has been.
Starmer should offer to lead us back into a reformed Single Market (with reformed Free Movement) he kills off YES and thrashes the Tories, gaining the Remainers
I'd probably vote for it
That is LD policy already. Your sandals are in the post.
How are you going to persuade the European Commission to reform the single market?
We don't need to - we just need to implement the existing rules. Free movement is not to allow people to move to the UK to scrounge or beg. You have to have a job, and if you can't prove that within 3 months you can be removed.
As the Belgians have done. Its that simple - "New rules to ban people coming here to claim benefits"
FWIW, the Government can't even get rid of failed asylum seekers and foreign national criminals. The idea that it could somehow successfully deport large numbers of surplus Big Issue sellers and hand car wash operatives is absolutely laughable.
Lab 40 (+5) Con 34 (-4) Lib Dem 10 (=) SNP 5 (=) Green 5 (+1)
Changes with 5-7 Nov
On HY’s night off, too. Perhaps just as well.
Starmer will be PM with SNP support or similar
Though that does of course mean Starmer would then have to call indyref2, so it would then become Labour's problem
If those figures were replicated at a GE, Labour + Lib Dems would be close enough, even on the new boundaries, to exclude the SNP and dare them to vote with the Tories.
Labour and LDs plus even Lucas and the Alliance would still be short of a majority though, they would need SNP, Plaid and SDLP support to get anything through parliament
I think there would be far more tactical voting between Lib Dems and Labour compared with 2017 and 2019 GE too.
I can see that. There comes a point when this Conservatorship government becomes so Toxic people will be more motivated to vote against them than for whoever.
Not just that, but also LD and Lab manifestos and leaderships will be much closer aligned than under Corbyn and Swinson.
I note that Yougov poll 5% higher for Green and 5% lower for Lab to Samanta/Comes. Is there something to do with methodology of party promptings?
Yougov having Greens higher and Labour lower has been a steady pattern for a while. This time last month YG still had Labour on 31%.
Yes, it is a consistent finding, but is it to do with methodology?
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
Your obsession with polls does not translate how a conservative leader campaign may transform public opinion, though I prefer Rishi as I believe he has the ability and character
Lab 40 (+5) Con 34 (-4) Lib Dem 10 (=) SNP 5 (=) Green 5 (+1)
Changes with 5-7 Nov
On HY’s night off, too. Perhaps just as well.
Starmer will be PM with SNP support or similar
Though that does of course mean Starmer would then have to call indyref2, so it would then become Labour's problem
If those figures were replicated at a GE, Labour + Lib Dems would be close enough, even on the new boundaries, to exclude the SNP and dare them to vote with the Tories.
Labour and LDs plus even Lucas and the Alliance would still be short of a majority though, they would need SNP, Plaid and SDLP support to get anything through parliament
I think there would be far more tactical voting between Lib Dems and Labour compared with 2017 and 2019 GE too.
I can see that. There comes a point when this Conservatorship government becomes so Toxic people will be more motivated to vote against them than for whoever.
Not just that, but also LD and Lab manifestos and leaderships will be much closer aligned than under Corbyn and Swinson.
I note that Yougov poll 5% higher for Green and 5% lower for Lab to Samanta/Comes. Is there something to do with methodology of party promptings?
Yougov having Greens higher and Labour lower has been a steady pattern for a while. This time last month YG still had Labour on 31%.
Yes, it is a consistent finding, but is it to do with methodology?
If the greens weren’t doing well during cop26 something would be up.
As someone pointed out on Twitter earlier, unlike at various points in the last few years the Tories don’t have any UKIP or Brexit party vote to gobble up. The 35-40% they have now is the sum total of everything they’ll get in an election.
Labour have between about 3 and 8% Green VI to garner under FPTP and provably 2% or so of the Lib Dems alongside some tactical voting. In this hyper partisan post Brexit world to have a poll with 60% voting anti-Tory starts to look a bit more tricky for them.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
He's evidently incapable of the former, and the latter would leave a great many of his MPs unable to continue to live in the manner to which they have become accustomed. Neither is going to happen.
And before the next GE, the only people who can sack Boris are those very Conservative MPs.
If you were a greedy backbench MP, what would you do?
Starmer should offer to lead us back into a reformed Single Market (with reformed Free Movement) he kills off YES and thrashes the Tories, gaining the Remainers
I'd probably vote for it
That is LD policy already. Your sandals are in the post.
How are you going to persuade the European Commission to reform the single market?
We don't need to - we just need to implement the existing rules. Free movement is not to allow people to move to the UK to scrounge or beg. You have to have a job, and if you can't prove that within 3 months you can be removed.
As the Belgians have done. Its that simple - "New rules to ban people coming here to claim benefits"
Somewhat confused by what you mean by "existing rules" - you mean as they are now (post-Brexit) or go back under the whole ludicrous panoply of EuCo regulation, or are you suggesting EEA?
What with the moe changes in indy polls, Sturgeon having a disastrous COP26 & about to step down and the Conservative & Unionist party going from strength to strength, the Union has never been more secure.
Starmer should offer to lead us back into a reformed Single Market (with reformed Free Movement) he kills off YES and thrashes the Tories, gaining the Remainers
I'd probably vote for it
That is LD policy already. Your sandals are in the post.
How are you going to persuade the European Commission to reform the single market?
They won't. This is what so many pro-EU advocates fail to understand. The EU cannot and will not reform to accommodate truculent members or potential members. You either take the EU as it is as a whole or you leave it. There is no middle ground. Never has been.
Of course you have been right hitherto. Hence us both being Leavers
And yet after Brexit, and facing Poland and Hungary, and with people like Barnier calling for drastic reform of Free Movement (esp with what's happening in Belarus) perhaps there is a place for True EU Reformers to be heard
Otherwise I reckon the EU is doomed. Not enough Europeans believe, or will ever believe, in true political union. A flexible EU, with positive but associate membership for big countries like the UK, is the only way it survives.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
Your obsession with polls does not translated how a conservative leader campaign may translate into public opinion, though I prefer Rishi as I believe he has the ability and character
Rishi is a bit shifty. Wouldn’t trust him for a second. Seems to care a lot about himself.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
Your obsession with polls does not translated how a conservative leader campaign may translate into public opinion, though I prefer Rishi as I believe he has the ability and character
Normally it does, Cameron did best in next Tory leader polls with the public in 2005, Boris did best in next Tory leader polls in 2019. Both won the next general election.
Clarke did best in next Tory leader polls in 1997 and 2001 but the Tories picked Hague and IDS and neither won a general election.
On the Labour side Blair did best in 1994 Labour leader polls with the public and won.
David Miliband did best in next Labour leader polls in 2010 and Burnham did best in 2015 but Labour picked Ed Miliband and Corbyn and lost
Remember those trees in that garden in Newark which were about to be chopped down? And the whole urban garden tarmacked for a pointless tiny carpark?
It looks like the nice guys WON. The trees are probably saved. The garden will be preserved. I feel, weirdly, slightly tearful
Well done those people
"Well the fence is still there but the Newark Library trees are very nearly saved. Last minute offer by the landowner which @NSDCouncil will vote on next week. What an incredible 48hrs! "
The lesson is that if it is necessary for trees to be removed - and Sycamores are just big weeds - then it has to be done first.
Nah. The presumption must be: you don't chop down big lovely trees for a fucking car park
Particularly for one that is not needed. There is plenty of car parking in Newark. The problem is not car parks, it is traffic jams caused by piss poor council decisions and unsupported mass development (by which I don't mean people support but infrastructure support).
Trouble is that car parking makes the district council a fecking fortune so they are always looking to build more council car parks in spite of the fact there are cheap and secure NCP car parks available with loads of space even in the lead up to Christmas.
As someone pointed out on Twitter earlier, unlike at various points in the last few years the Tories don’t have any UKIP or Brexit party vote to gobble up. The 35-40% they have now is the sum total of everything they’ll get in an election.
Labour have between about 3 and 8% Green VI to garner under FPTP and provably 2% or so of the Lib Dems alongside some tactical voting. In this hyper partisan post Brexit world to have a poll with 60% voting anti-Tory starts to look a bit more tricky for them.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
Starmer should offer to lead us back into a reformed Single Market (with reformed Free Movement) he kills off YES and thrashes the Tories, gaining the Remainers
I'd probably vote for it
That is LD policy already. Your sandals are in the post.
How are you going to persuade the European Commission to reform the single market?
We don't need to - we just need to implement the existing rules. Free movement is not to allow people to move to the UK to scrounge or beg. You have to have a job, and if you can't prove that within 3 months you can be removed.
As the Belgians have done. Its that simple - "New rules to ban people coming here to claim benefits"
Somewhat confused by what you mean by "existing rules" - you mean as they are now (post-Brexit) or go back under the whole ludicrous panoply of EuCo regulation, or are you suggesting EEA?
The existing freedom of movement rules. If we rejoin the single market as suggested we can impose the existing rules which we didn't bother with before.
As for the comment about how we remove people, it will be by exception as these things always are. How about we properly staff the Border Force as a starter for 10.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
Your obsession with polls does not translated how a conservative leader campaign may translate into public opinion, though I prefer Rishi as I believe he has the ability and character
Rishi is a bit shifty. Wouldn’t trust him for a second. Seems to care a lot about himself.
In your eyes maybe or maybe more concern that he could lead the conservative party to success in 24
You have a visceral dislike of Boris but on this he is correct
France has a duty of care to these migrants as much as we have, and certainly the two countries should be conducting joint patrols to prevent loss of life at sea
No. Boris just doing words as usual, no action. Truth is he knows he signs seven out of ten up to work here, he just wastes time before doing that. He should send Patel down on beaches to tell them where to start work on Monday, it will save our tax payers money
What is your evidence for your claim 70% are signed up to work here
The BBC said it. Are they a bot too or are you too busy to watch the news?
The figures suggest only about a third of those arriving are not deemed to be refugees.
Isn’t that relevant or important. I think it’s a four years wasted because of political dogma.
And it’s also politics before a lack of humanity.
Yes it featured in the 1800 news on Radio 4 that 2/3 were accepted as asylum seekers either on first application or appeal.
It was also commented that overall numbers are down, it is just that the percentage arriving by dingy has shot up. Presumably the numbers arriving by lorry or air are markedly down.
Don’t know. Can’t agree with you. If it’s powerful people smugglers you don’t know how much they get away with to call it up or down. That’s the whole point. Of smuggling. If you were rubbish at catching them you would say it’s gone down because you havn’t captured any?
Yes but the number of asylum seekers is known by the Home Office when they file applications.
One simple step would be the banning of dinghies without proof of need, and a two week cooling off period before picking it up, during which the Border Force could investigate. Applied to Libya too.
Okay I agree now. The criminal gangs are still making money helping the asylum seekers, of which the government judge 7 out of 10 as genuine. But those people all get out the boat and surrender? The criminal gangs also smuggle people who don’t surrender they work in a dark economy? Like in a nail salon, you wouldn’t know they got smuggled in in a bag or the hidden part of a wardrobe. So you wouldn’t have a clue if you are beating the smugglers or not
What with the moe changes in indy polls, Sturgeon having a disastrous COP26 & about to step down and the Conservative & Unionist party going from strength to strength, the Union has never been more secure.
Starmer should offer to lead us back into a reformed Single Market (with reformed Free Movement) he kills off YES and thrashes the Tories, gaining the Remainers
I'd probably vote for it
That is LD policy already. Your sandals are in the post.
How are you going to persuade the European Commission to reform the single market?
We don't need to - we just need to implement the existing rules. Free movement is not to allow people to move to the UK to scrounge or beg. You have to have a job, and if you can't prove that within 3 months you can be removed.
As the Belgians have done. Its that simple - "New rules to ban people coming here to claim benefits"
Somewhat confused by what you mean by "existing rules" - you mean as they are now (post-Brexit) or go back under the whole ludicrous panoply of EuCo regulation, or are you suggesting EEA?
The existing freedom of movement rules. If we rejoin the single market as suggested we can impose the existing rules which we didn't bother with before.
It would have made no material difference to numbers.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
Your obsession with polls does not translated how a conservative leader campaign may translate into public opinion, though I prefer Rishi as I believe he has the ability and character
Normally it does, Cameron did best in next Tory leader polls with the public in 2005, Boris did best in next Tory leader polls in 2019. Both won the next general election.
Clarke did best in next Tory leader polls in 1997 and 2001 but the Tories picked Hague and IDS and neither won a general election.
On the Labour side Blair did best in 1994 Labour leader polls with the public and won.
David Miliband did best in next Labour leader polls in 2010 and Burnham did best in 2015 but Labour picked Ed Miliband and Corbyn and lost
Yesterday does not look at the future especially with such change around us
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
He's evidently incapable of the former, and the latter would leave a great many of his MPs unable to continue to live in the manner to which they have become accustomed. Neither is going to happen.
And before the next GE, the only people who can sack Boris are those very Conservative MPs.
If you were a greedy backbench MP, what would you do?
I take that to be a rhetorical question but I don't know what the answer is. Some sort of anti corruption drive is nailed on, so stick with Boris to ensure it is incompetent and half hearted? Or go with a new broom on the basis that another 5 years is worth having even on the pittance of 80k plus ludicrously generous exes and flipping opportunities?
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
Heart over head I'd want Truss to win.
Wallet over heart I'd want Truss to be CoE and Rishi to be PM.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
Your obsession with polls does not translated how a conservative leader campaign may translate into public opinion, though I prefer Rishi as I believe he has the ability and character
Rishi is a bit shifty. Wouldn’t trust him for a second. Seems to care a lot about himself.
In your eyes maybe or maybe more concern that he could lead the conservative party to success in 24
Nah, too smarmy. Wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
She is a libertarian ex republican ex LD (no surprise you like her though).
I have no enthusiasm for her whatsover. She is not a Conservative just a non socialist free market Liberal. We may as well have Starmer.
She would also go down like a cup of cold sick in the Redwall.
Incompetence not sleaze might finish off Boris Johnson, if people think living standards are tight at the moment wait and see what happens to energy and food prices over the winter.
How far a PM who claimed he can get Brexit down is able offer something tangible in place of a mere slogan is another matter. Cummings seems to be happy to stick his knife in all the way up to the hilt.
Things can only get better, we’ve had the Tory Black Wednesday
Or it is only just beginning. I think sleaze and corruption scandals are hard to recover from.
I think in tennis they call this an unforced error.
Starmer must be punching the ceiling tonight as Johnson self-destructs his own premiership to save Paterson for no other reason than erm... no me neither.
Fraser Nelson in Spectator this weekend is not sparing the full barrels at Johnson's lack of grip and plain old stupidity.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
Former Lib Dem, I bet. Nothing short of being born wearing a blue rosette is enough.
Things can only get better, we’ve had the Tory Black Wednesday
Or it is only just beginning. I think sleaze and corruption scandals are hard to recover from.
Christmas is coming and will far more shape what happens next than the politics which will inevitably hibernate over Christmas, unless things have gone disastrously wrong.
If there's another lockdown, a year after vaccines became available, then that is a catastrophic failure from which there can be no coming back.
If there's no lockdown and we get through a tough winter OK, when across the continent we can regrettably see lockdowns being necessary - then that's going to be a different matter.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
I think the fact she is not in favour of a ;police state is enough to turn HYUFD against her.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
I think the fact she is not in favour of a ;police state is enough to turn HYUFD against her.
I was being more polite than Justin, who regularly called her a Trollop
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
Heart over head I'd want Truss to win.
Wallet over heart I'd want Truss to be CoE and Rishi to be PM.
If you pushed me into a corner, I would say Truss would be a superb Leader of Opposition whereas Sunak would be a better, if rather stale and safe, PM.
Remember those trees in that garden in Newark which were about to be chopped down? And the whole urban garden tarmacked for a pointless tiny carpark?
It looks like the nice guys WON. The trees are probably saved. The garden will be preserved. I feel, weirdly, slightly tearful
Well done those people
"Well the fence is still there but the Newark Library trees are very nearly saved. Last minute offer by the landowner which @NSDCouncil will vote on next week. What an incredible 48hrs! "
The lesson is that if it is necessary for trees to be removed - and Sycamores are just big weeds - then it has to be done first.
Nah. The presumption must be: you don't chop down big lovely trees for a fucking car park
Particularly for one that is not needed. There is plenty of car parking in Newark. The problem is not car parks, it is traffic jams caused by piss poor council decisions and unsupported mass development (by which I don't mean people support but infrastructure support).
Trouble is that car parking makes the district council a fecking fortune so they are always looking to build more council car parks in spite of the fact there are cheap and secure NCP car parks available with loads of space even in the lead up to Christmas.
Depends what is needed to be done.
The Council could have put TPOs on them years ago if they provide public amenity. The systems have been in place for 50 years.
I think the inly convincing argument against development I have seen is that demand has fallen.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
Heart over head I'd want Truss to win.
Wallet over heart I'd want Truss to be CoE and Rishi to be PM.
If you pushed me into a corner, I would say Truss would be a superb Leader of Opposition whereas Sunak would be a better, if rather stale and safe, PM.
Its hard to be impartial on this, when I get five grand if Rishi becomes PM.
Things can only get better, we’ve had the Tory Black Wednesday
Or it is only just beginning. I think sleaze and corruption scandals are hard to recover from.
I think in tennis they call this an unforced error.
Starmer must be punching the ceiling tonight as Johnson self-destructs his own premiership to save Paterson for no other reason than erm... no me neither.
Fraser Nelson in Spectator this weekend is not sparing the full barrels at Johnson's lack of grip and plain old stupidity.
When the Spectator turns on him, who is left in his corner?
You have a visceral dislike of Boris but on this he is correct
France has a duty of care to these migrants as much as we have, and certainly the two countries should be conducting joint patrols to prevent loss of life at sea
No. Boris just doing words as usual, no action. Truth is he knows he signs seven out of ten up to work here, he just wastes time before doing that. He should send Patel down on beaches to tell them where to start work on Monday, it will save our tax payers money
What is your evidence for your claim 70% are signed up to work here
The BBC said it. Are they a bot too or are you too busy to watch the news?
The figures suggest only about a third of those arriving are not deemed to be refugees.
The piece does not even include the word "work", never mind the rest of it.
I think you mean I said work now? What happens then after the four years wait? They stay and they work just like they hoped when they got in the dingy, I think. Or pay for it. Is the news wrong that after long wait seven out of ten do stay and work?
Sometimes it is said international criminal gangs are making it happen. But no one really says that enough in your opinion? The gangs have money and threat. Lots of people desperate to come here are coming in dingie boats on a sort of scale that’s a successful business. 4 years for processing and then 7 out of ten stay. Meantime where do they live, and how do they eat and live? And do locals embrace them. And how much tax payer money is all this? And it’s bad if the gangs behind it are laughing at us and rolling in it.
I still think I am right. You saying every single one is so complicated it takes 4 years? There are no quick wins?
Tell me where I have this all wrong?
My church does quite a bit with refugees, and yes, 4 years is probably correct. It is a painful wait and needlessly prolonged.. In the meantime they do get a modest amount of benefits, and no right to work.
If they come on a really big scale that is a lot of charity and patience on all sides. Not ideal. It can turn it from one thing to another thing on quantity of scale.
Have they explained why they travel through lots of different countries just to come here? Throughout history there has been people who just have to move because it’s not safe now, but why not stop where the weather suits them? They must believe it’s safe here?
Ideas.
So can’t sort them into obvious quick wins heading and more complex cases?
Why not allow them to apply for jobs, if at same time there is problem with vacancies and skill shortages? That costs tax payers much less?
Remember those trees in that garden in Newark which were about to be chopped down? And the whole urban garden tarmacked for a pointless tiny carpark?
It looks like the nice guys WON. The trees are probably saved. The garden will be preserved. I feel, weirdly, slightly tearful
Well done those people
"Well the fence is still there but the Newark Library trees are very nearly saved. Last minute offer by the landowner which @NSDCouncil will vote on next week. What an incredible 48hrs! "
The lesson is that if it is necessary for trees to be removed - and Sycamores are just big weeds - then it has to be done first.
Nah. The presumption must be: you don't chop down big lovely trees for a fucking car park
Particularly for one that is not needed. There is plenty of car parking in Newark. The problem is not car parks, it is traffic jams caused by piss poor council decisions and unsupported mass development (by which I don't mean people support but infrastructure support).
Trouble is that car parking makes the district council a fecking fortune so they are always looking to build more council car parks in spite of the fact there are cheap and secure NCP car parks available with loads of space even in the lead up to Christmas.
Depends what is needed to be done.
The Council could have put TPOs on them years ago if they provide public amenity. The systems have been in place for 50 years.
I think the inly convincing argument against development I have seen is that demand has fallen.
Nope. Even at the height of demand parking in the town has never been an issue. Getting into the town in the first place to get to the car parks is another matter. For as long as I can remember (and I lived in Newark for over 40 years and still only live 15 miles away) it has been possible to park in the centre of the town even on the busiest days such as leading up to Christmas. There is simply no demand for more car parking except by the council as a quick money earner rather than seeing that revenue go to the private car parks.
Not saying the Cons won't be ahead by 5pts next week but if you're lead by a fat, lying sack of jizz (a fact which is acknowledged by most voters and sack of jizz's own mps), the final descent might be quite vertiginous.
You have a visceral dislike of Boris but on this he is correct
France has a duty of care to these migrants as much as we have, and certainly the two countries should be conducting joint patrols to prevent loss of life at sea
No. Boris just doing words as usual, no action. Truth is he knows he signs seven out of ten up to work here, he just wastes time before doing that. He should send Patel down on beaches to tell them where to start work on Monday, it will save our tax payers money
What is your evidence for your claim 70% are signed up to work here
The BBC said it. Are they a bot too or are you too busy to watch the news?
The figures suggest only about a third of those arriving are not deemed to be refugees.
The piece does not even include the word "work", never mind the rest of it.
I think you mean I said work now? What happens then after the four years wait? They stay and they work just like they hoped when they got in the dingy, I think. Or pay for it. Is the news wrong that after long wait seven out of ten do stay and work?
Sometimes it is said international criminal gangs are making it happen. But no one really says that enough in your opinion? The gangs have money and threat. Lots of people desperate to come here are coming in dingie boats on a sort of scale that’s a successful business. 4 years for processing and then 7 out of ten stay. Meantime where do they live, and how do they eat and live? And do locals embrace them. And how much tax payer money is all this? And it’s bad if the gangs behind it are laughing at us and rolling in it.
I still think I am right. You saying every single one is so complicated it takes 4 years? There are no quick wins?
Tell me where I have this all wrong?
My church does quite a bit with refugees, and yes, 4 years is probably correct. It is a painful wait and needlessly prolonged.. In the meantime they do get a modest amount of benefits, and no right to work.
If they come on a really big scale that is a lot of charity and patience on all sides. Not ideal. It can turn it from one thing to another thing on quantity of scale.
Have they explained why they travel through lots of different countries just to come here? Throughout history there has been people who just have to move because it’s not safe now, but why not stop where the weather suits them? They must believe it’s safe here?
Ideas.
So can’t sort them into obvious quick wins heading and more complex cases?
Why not allow them to apply for jobs, if at same time there is problem with vacancies and skill shortages? That costs tax payers much less?
Working while claiming asylum used to be allowed, but stopped under New Labour, I think.
The ones that I know are mostly Zimbabwean, Afghan or Pakistani Christian.
The difference being I am not sure Starmer is crap. Well, he is probably going to be crap by my measure as I am not a leftie. But that does not mean he is not competent and would quite possibly make a good PM. So whilst I couldn't vote for him because of his general philosophy and politics, I would not fear his victory in the way I think I would probably fear Johnson continuing as PM. I think there will be a large number of people on both sides of the Brexit debate who feel the same way.
I’m not saying he is crap. The comparison I’m making is between the reaction to mid term polls in the 2015 electoral cycle and the reaction to this weeks polls.
Ha ha. I could have sworn you've been saying Starmer's crap for months and months and months.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
She is a libertarian ex republican ex LD (no surprise you like her though).
I have no enthusiasm for her whatsover. She is not a Conservative just a non socialist free market Liberal. We may as well have Starmer.
She would also go down like a cup of cold sick in the Redwall.
You don't know anything about the Red wall. The one thing that would go down like a bucket of cold sick here is telling people that they didn't vote Tories in the past so should f**k off and aren't wanted
The Conservative Party at its best is a free market Liberal party. However when it comes to social issues then as Secretary of State for Women and Equalities it seems Truss has been doing sensible pro-women policies, even winning the backing of our own @Cyclefree while standing up for those who get denounced as "TERFs" by other parties.
Your form of "Conservativism" is embarrassing and doesn't belong in the 20th let alone the 21st century.
A 3% swing from SF to DUP in that poll is not worrying at all
The TUV was actually (-3). It is a swing from UUP and TUV to DUP. SF/SDLP to Alliance is good though. If there is one thing NI needs it is a swing against sectarianism.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
She is a libertarian ex republican ex LD (no surprise you like her though).
I have no enthusiasm for her whatsover. She is not a Conservative just a non socialist free market Liberal. We may as well have Starmer.
She would also go down like a cup of cold sick in the Redwall.
You don't know anything about the Red wall. The one thing that would go down like a bucket of cold sick here is telling people that they didn't vote Tories in the past so should f**k off and aren't wanted
The Conservative Party at its best is a free market Liberal party. However when it comes to social issues then as Secretary of State for Women and Equalities it seems Truss has been doing sensible pro-women policies, even winning the backing of our own @Cyclefree while standing up for those who get denounced as "TERFs" by other parties.
Your form of "Conservativism" is embarrassing and doesn't belong in the 20th let alone the 21st century.
Boris did not win the Redwall in 2019 as a free market liberal, he won as a big spending Brexiteer and patriot who would tighten immigration controls.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
She is a libertarian ex republican ex LD (no surprise you like her though).
I have no enthusiasm for her whatsover. She is not a Conservative just a non socialist free market Liberal. We may as well have Starmer.
She would also go down like a cup of cold sick in the Redwall.
You don't know anything about the Red wall. The one thing that would go down like a bucket of cold sick here is telling people that they didn't vote Tories in the past so should f**k off and aren't wanted
The Conservative Party at its best is a free market Liberal party. However when it comes to social issues then as Secretary of State for Women and Equalities it seems Truss has been doing sensible pro-women policies, even winning the backing of our own @Cyclefree while standing up for those who get denounced as "TERFs" by other parties.
Your form of "Conservativism" is embarrassing and doesn't belong in the 20th let alone the 21st century.
Boris did not win the Redwall in 2019 as a free market liberal, he won as a big spending Brexiteer who would tighten immigration controls.
You don't know the Red wall at all. Have you ever lived up here?
Cameron and May both pledged tighter immigration controls than Boris did, both pledged cutting down to "tens of thousands" immigration, but that didn't win the North did it?
Levelling up is about sensible reforms not about turning the UK back to the 18th century.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Yes. Again it was that detail on his property claims that made me faintly nauseous
This is a while class of boyars that need to feel the wrath of the voter
That said, you have the exact same class in government in Holyrood. An elite of SNP fat cats who are clearly creaming off the Scottish taxpayer. Grotesquely. And yet you won't say a word against them. Feeble
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
I expect the membership to vote for her whatever the polling says.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
I would not vote for Truss under any circumstances and I am a Tory member and not alone on that.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
The fact you would not vote for Truss under any circumstances is about as big a ringing endorsement possible that she'd make a great leader and PM. 👍
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
She is a libertarian ex republican ex LD (no surprise you like her though).
I have no enthusiasm for her whatsover. She is not a Conservative just a non socialist free market Liberal. We may as well have Starmer.
She would also go down like a cup of cold sick in the Redwall.
You don't know anything about the Red wall. The one thing that would go down like a bucket of cold sick here is telling people that they didn't vote Tories in the past so should f**k off and aren't wanted
The Conservative Party at its best is a free market Liberal party. However when it comes to social issues then as Secretary of State for Women and Equalities it seems Truss has been doing sensible pro-women policies, even winning the backing of our own @Cyclefree while standing up for those who get denounced as "TERFs" by other parties.
Your form of "Conservativism" is embarrassing and doesn't belong in the 20th let alone the 21st century.
Boris did not win the Redwall in 2019 as a free market liberal, he won as a big spending Brexiteer and patriot who would tighten immigration controls.
There was this little nugget in Yougov today too. Even in the North more people believe that their area will lose money than gain in "levelling up"
You have a visceral dislike of Boris but on this he is correct
France has a duty of care to these migrants as much as we have, and certainly the two countries should be conducting joint patrols to prevent loss of life at sea
No. Boris just doing words as usual, no action. Truth is he knows he signs seven out of ten up to work here, he just wastes time before doing that. He should send Patel down on beaches to tell them where to start work on Monday, it will save our tax payers money
What is your evidence for your claim 70% are signed up to work here
The BBC said it. Are they a bot too or are you too busy to watch the news?
The figures suggest only about a third of those arriving are not deemed to be refugees.
The piece does not even include the word "work", never mind the rest of it.
I think you mean I said work now? What happens then after the four years wait? They stay and they work just like they hoped when they got in the dingy, I think. Or pay for it. Is the news wrong that after long wait seven out of ten do stay and work?
Sometimes it is said international criminal gangs are making it happen. But no one really says that enough in your opinion? The gangs have money and threat. Lots of people desperate to come here are coming in dingie boats on a sort of scale that’s a successful business. 4 years for processing and then 7 out of ten stay. Meantime where do they live, and how do they eat and live? And do locals embrace them. And how much tax payer money is all this? And it’s bad if the gangs behind it are laughing at us and rolling in it.
I still think I am right. You saying every single one is so complicated it takes 4 years? There are no quick wins?
Tell me where I have this all wrong?
My church does quite a bit with refugees, and yes, 4 years is probably correct. It is a painful wait and needlessly prolonged.. In the meantime they do get a modest amount of benefits, and no right to work.
If they come on a really big scale that is a lot of charity and patience on all sides. Not ideal. It can turn it from one thing to another thing on quantity of scale.
Have they explained why they travel through lots of different countries just to come here? Throughout history there has been people who just have to move because it’s not safe now, but why not stop where the weather suits them? They must believe it’s safe here?
Ideas.
So can’t sort them into obvious quick wins heading and more complex cases?
Why not allow them to apply for jobs, if at same time there is problem with vacancies and skill shortages? That costs tax payers much less?
Working while claiming asylum used to be allowed, but stopped under New Labour, I think.
The ones that I know are mostly Zimbabwean, Afghan or Pakistani Christian.
Thinking of those places and what denomination they are, it’s obvious why the government doesn’t send them back in the end. They would feel safer here than there. But would they not feel just as safe in south of France and with better weather? With a blank book to write in, where would their quality of life actually be best going forward?
There’s an old bbc play on YouTube of a policeman battling gangs in Birmingham, but his Father back in India has an idealised idea of what it’s like in UK, when he comes he gets beaten up walking down the street by thugs and you feel so sorry for him
The difference being I am not sure Starmer is crap. Well, he is probably going to be crap by my measure as I am not a leftie. But that does not mean he is not competent and would quite possibly make a good PM. So whilst I couldn't vote for him because of his general philosophy and politics, I would not fear his victory in the way I think I would probably fear Johnson continuing as PM. I think there will be a large number of people on both sides of the Brexit debate who feel the same way.
I’m not saying he is crap. The comparison I’m making is between the reaction to mid term polls in the 2015 electoral cycle and the reaction to this weeks polls.
Ha ha. I could have sworn you've been saying Starmer's crap for months and months and months.
I said I don’t think he has the charisma to beat Boris in a GE campaign, I never said I thought he was crap. I disagree with him on almost everything but said I didn’t think he’d be crap if he became PM.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Yes. Again it was that detail on his property claims that made me faintly nauseous
This is a while class of boyars that need to feel the wrath of the voter
That said, you have the exact same class in government in Holyrood. An elite of SNP fat cats who are clearly creaming off the Scottish taxpayer. Grotesquely. And yet you won't say a word against them. Feeble
I'm happy for you to seek a wee dab of whatabout ointment to salve the burn of how shit the people are who you have voted to govern us (the us including the us in my bit who definitely voted not to have these arseholes in charge).
Remember those trees in that garden in Newark which were about to be chopped down? And the whole urban garden tarmacked for a pointless tiny carpark?
It looks like the nice guys WON. The trees are probably saved. The garden will be preserved. I feel, weirdly, slightly tearful
Well done those people
"Well the fence is still there but the Newark Library trees are very nearly saved. Last minute offer by the landowner which @NSDCouncil will vote on next week. What an incredible 48hrs! "
The lesson is that if it is necessary for trees to be removed - and Sycamores are just big weeds - then it has to be done first.
Nah. The presumption must be: you don't chop down big lovely trees for a fucking car park
Particularly for one that is not needed. There is plenty of car parking in Newark. The problem is not car parks, it is traffic jams caused by piss poor council decisions and unsupported mass development (by which I don't mean people support but infrastructure support).
Trouble is that car parking makes the district council a fecking fortune so they are always looking to build more council car parks in spite of the fact there are cheap and secure NCP car parks available with loads of space even in the lead up to Christmas.
The presumption is that it is weighed in the balance according to the established criteria, with a full aboricultural report for something like this.
Depends what is needed to be done.
The Council could have put TPOs on them years ago if they provide public amenity. The systems have been in place for 50 years. They had decided that that was not appropriate.
If the squatters wanted to object they should have done it in 2018, when PP was given. Afaics no public comments were made.
This is the problem with morons of the Chris Packham variety; they think their rants should override the professional and democratic processes. Not acceptable.
I think the only credible argument against development I have seen is that demand has fallen.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Yes. Again it was that detail on his property claims that made me faintly nauseous
This is a while class of boyars that need to feel the wrath of the voter
That said, you have the exact same class in government in Holyrood. An elite of SNP fat cats who are clearly creaming off the Scottish taxpayer. Grotesquely. And yet you won't say a word against them. Feeble
Folk don't mind people making a bit of cash on the side. Most would if they had the chance. They don't like a bloke doing a full time job while pretending to be an MP. So, while not illegal, people can see Cox for what he is. A piss taker.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
The difference being I am not sure Starmer is crap. Well, he is probably going to be crap by my measure as I am not a leftie. But that does not mean he is not competent and would quite possibly make a good PM. So whilst I couldn't vote for him because of his general philosophy and politics, I would not fear his victory in the way I think I would probably fear Johnson continuing as PM. I think there will be a large number of people on both sides of the Brexit debate who feel the same way.
I’m not saying he is crap. The comparison I’m making is between the reaction to mid term polls in the 2015 electoral cycle and the reaction to this weeks polls.
Ha ha. I could have sworn you've been saying Starmer's crap for months and months and months.
I said I don’t think he has the charisma to beat Boris in a GE campaign, I never said I thought he was crap. I disagree with him on almost everything but said I didn’t think he’d be crap if he became PM.
Fair enough, though I do think you've been consistently negative about him - not without reason, actually, but I think he's improving. Incidentally, I agree with you about Julia Lopez: that all sounds very dodgy, particularly with the company involved having the same address as her constituency office. Watch this space.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
Yes. And was absolutely the correct target. Even if IDS was far more egregious. Why? Because it is very simple for your average punter to comprehend.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
His constituents seem to think he does his job as an MP.
Majority (without looking it up) has gone from Lib Dem marginal 3000 to 25k in 15 years.
Though I see that the hatchets are out again in the newspapers .
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
Yes. And was absolutely the correct target. Even if IDS was far more egregious. Why? Because it is very simple for your average punter to comprehend.
If people conflate things that might be shitty with things that are actually not allowed or are corrupt, then I'd argue they have not comprehended properly.
So long as people are judging the Coxes of the world as hoggish or piss taking that is one thing, but what we surely do not want is for people to think piss taking is the be all and end all, when actual compromised corruption may be going on. 'Understanding' the former as the latter is not much help.
People comprehended that MPs were claiming expenses on petty bullshit, but the ones actually being fraudulent still needed to be the main focus, and the two sins were not equal.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
His constituents seem to think he does his job as an MP.
Majority (without looking it up) has gone from Lib Dem marginal 3000 to 25k in 15 years.
Though I see that the hatchets are out again in the newspapers .
Are you suggesting that size of majority is directly correlated with doing your job as an MP? Surely not.
At the very least perhaps the anger from the Tories at losing their unprecedentedly good poll leads will mean Paterson doesn't get the peerage I am, like many, very confident he was offered for some way down the line.
Remember those trees in that garden in Newark which were about to be chopped down? And the whole urban garden tarmacked for a pointless tiny carpark?
It looks like the nice guys WON. The trees are probably saved. The garden will be preserved. I feel, weirdly, slightly tearful
Well done those people
"Well the fence is still there but the Newark Library trees are very nearly saved. Last minute offer by the landowner which @NSDCouncil will vote on next week. What an incredible 48hrs! "
The lesson is that if it is necessary for trees to be removed - and Sycamores are just big weeds - then it has to be done first.
Nah. The presumption must be: you don't chop down big lovely trees for a fucking car park
Particularly for one that is not needed. There is plenty of car parking in Newark. The problem is not car parks, it is traffic jams caused by piss poor council decisions and unsupported mass development (by which I don't mean people support but infrastructure support).
Trouble is that car parking makes the district council a fecking fortune so they are always looking to build more council car parks in spite of the fact there are cheap and secure NCP car parks available with loads of space even in the lead up to Christmas.
The presumption is that it is weighed in the balance according to the established criteria, with a full aboricultural report for something like this.
Depends what is needed to be done.
The Council could have put TPOs on them years ago if they provide public amenity. The systems have been in place for 50 years. They had decided that that was not appropriate.
If the squatters wanted to object they should have done it in 2018, when PP was given. Afaics no public comments were made.
This is the problem with morons of the Chris Packham variety; they think their rants should override the professional and democratic processes. Not acceptable.
I think the only credible argument against development I have seen is that demand has fallen.
Plenty of the emoto-guff in the paper is made up.
There were lots of objections made at the time. This has been an ongoing issue for several years. Moreover it has the whiff of something dodgy about it anyway. The land was owned by the council who then sold it to a private individual (well known in the town) and then the council wants to rent it back from private hands to build a council car park on it. Meanwhile they start chopping down trees claiming they are diseased (they weren't as I and a colleague of mine who is a tree surgeon inspected one of those they have already cut down whilst it was lying there waiting to be disposed of).
Bear in mind the district council has a history of ignoring its own conservation officers to get their way and a history of being hand in glove with developers and failing to enforce their own rules.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
His constituents seem to think he does his job as an MP.
Majority (without looking it up) has gone from Lib Dem marginal 3000 to 25k in 15 years.
Though I see that the hatchets are out again in the newspapers .
I know. I was commenting on the views of the public in general, not his constituents.
But I'm pretty confident that if Cox stands again at the next GE his constituents will severely dent his majority, if not remove it all together.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
His constituents seem to think he does his job as an MP.
Majority (without looking it up) has gone from Lib Dem marginal 3000 to 25k in 15 years.
Though I see that the hatchets are out again in the newspapers .
Are you suggesting that size of majority is directly correlated with doing your job as an MP? Surely not.
It certainly doesn't, and plenty of lazy MPs might have good majorities. But they are the only ones, now he is not a minister, who can say whether he is doing his job as an MP or not - no one else can tell.
That said, that it was known he works a lot as a lawyer and it didn't bother them before doesn't mean it won't bother them now. Most will have forgotten he's been attacked over it before and that they didn't care.
I doubt the situation will arise - he'll have been an MP for nearly 2 decades by the next election, has apparently zero prospects for future advancement and his external work shows already that he would probably not be content to pootle around in his constituency for many more terms (first couple, sure, you have to put in your time).
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Yes. Again it was that detail on his property claims that made me faintly nauseous
This is a while class of boyars that need to feel the wrath of the voter
That said, you have the exact same class in government in Holyrood. An elite of SNP fat cats who are clearly creaming off the Scottish taxpayer. Grotesquely. And yet you won't say a word against them. Feeble
Folk don't mind people making a bit of cash on the side. Most would if they had the chance. They don't like a bloke doing a full time job while pretending to be an MP. So, while not illegal, people can see Cox for what he is. A piss taker.
If people earning a lot less money such as on benefits did a job on the side to bring fresh meat home to their family, these same MPs would respond how exactly?
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
Yes. And was absolutely the correct target. Even if IDS was far more egregious. Why? Because it is very simple for your average punter to comprehend.
If people conflate things that might be shitty with things that are actually not allowed or are corrupt, then I'd argue they have not comprehended properly.
So long as people are judging the Coxes of the world as hoggish or piss taking that is one thing, but what we surely do not want is for people to think piss taking is the be all and end all, when actual compromised corruption may be going on. 'Understanding' the former as the latter is not much help.
People comprehended that MPs were claiming expenses on petty bullshit, but the ones actually being fraudulent still needed to be the main focus, and the two sins were not equal.
Yes I get that. But the way to keep the story rolling was to focus on something ordinary workers could relate to. Once sleaze becomes the narrative, as it now has I think, not just OP one bad egg, more arcane (to the general public) stuff will emerge. Tactically, it was about the broad brush picture of Tory Sleaze being given legs. The folk memory is strong and still toxic.
As someone pointed out on Twitter earlier, unlike at various points in the last few years the Tories don’t have any UKIP or Brexit party vote to gobble up. The 35-40% they have now is the sum total of everything they’ll get in an election.
Labour have between about 3 and 8% Green VI to garner under FPTP and provably 2% or so of the Lib Dems alongside some tactical voting. In this hyper partisan post Brexit world to have a poll with 60% voting anti-Tory starts to look a bit more tricky for them.
Yes, that's right. I've been saying it for a while, but it's been masked by Labour's weakness, so the had-enough-of-the-Tories vote scattered in all directions. Starmer's stodgy strategy is actually proving quite good. Spend a year being boringly centrist. Pick a few fights with the left. Don't express a commitment to anything, but show you're not alarming and willing to work with the Government when they're doing the right thing. Then wait patiently until the Government demonstrably and unquestionably screws up, finally attack hard, and hey, you're the obvious alternative.
It's only one poll, of course, but the potential for a big Tory swingback seems limited. I expect we'll see some more polls on Sunday which will tell us if it's real.
So, would this be a good moment to remind Boris that if he needs an incorruptible tough Independent Commissioner to get him out of the very large hole he has dug for himself, I may be available at - obviously - Cox-like rates?
You have a visceral dislike of Boris but on this he is correct
France has a duty of care to these migrants as much as we have, and certainly the two countries should be conducting joint patrols to prevent loss of life at sea
No. Boris just doing words as usual, no action. Truth is he knows he signs seven out of ten up to work here, he just wastes time before doing that. He should send Patel down on beaches to tell them where to start work on Monday, it will save our tax payers money
What is your evidence for your claim 70% are signed up to work here
The BBC said it. Are they a bot too or are you too busy to watch the news?
The figures suggest only about a third of those arriving are not deemed to be refugees.
The piece does not even include the word "work", never mind the rest of it.
I think you mean I said work now? What happens then after the four years wait? They stay and they work just like they hoped when they got in the dingy, I think. Or pay for it. Is the news wrong that after long wait seven out of ten do stay and work?
Sometimes it is said international criminal gangs are making it happen. But no one really says that enough in your opinion? The gangs have money and threat. Lots of people desperate to come here are coming in dingie boats on a sort of scale that’s a successful business. 4 years for processing and then 7 out of ten stay. Meantime where do they live, and how do they eat and live? And do locals embrace them. And how much tax payer money is all this? And it’s bad if the gangs behind it are laughing at us and rolling in it.
I still think I am right. You saying every single one is so complicated it takes 4 years? There are no quick wins?
Tell me where I have this all wrong?
My church does quite a bit with refugees, and yes, 4 years is probably correct. It is a painful wait and needlessly prolonged.. In the meantime they do get a modest amount of benefits, and no right to work.
If they come on a really big scale that is a lot of charity and patience on all sides. Not ideal. It can turn it from one thing to another thing on quantity of scale.
Have they explained why they travel through lots of different countries just to come here? Throughout history there has been people who just have to move because it’s not safe now, but why not stop where the weather suits them? They must believe it’s safe here?
Ideas.
So can’t sort them into obvious quick wins heading and more complex cases?
Why not allow them to apply for jobs, if at same time there is problem with vacancies and skill shortages? That costs tax payers much less?
Working while claiming asylum used to be allowed, but stopped under New Labour, I think.
The ones that I know are mostly Zimbabwean, Afghan or Pakistani Christian.
Thinking of those places and what denomination they are, it’s obvious why the government doesn’t send them back in the end. They would feel safer here than there. But would they not feel just as safe in south of France and with better weather? With a blank book to write in, where would their quality of life actually be best going forward?
There’s an old bbc play on YouTube of a policeman battling gangs in Birmingham, but his Father back in India has an idealised idea of what it’s like in UK, when he comes he gets beaten up walking down the street by thugs and you feel so sorry for him
There's a scene in Season 4 (I think) of Ripper Street, where an Indian Army Officer comes to London as part of Victoria's Diamond Jubilee Celebrations, and to see his errant son, who moved from India. I don't know if it's historically accurate (I suspect not, though having started listening to the audiobook of the companion volume of Ken Burn's Vietnam, you never know), but he has this very patriotic idea of the British Empire... Until an officer in special branch, in response to a threat to go to the Colonial Secretary, asks 'Why would he listen to you, he's the colonial secretary and you're the colonial.' Felt sorry for the character in that moment, but I'm a sucker for scenes where a character discovers, tragically, that the world they were so sure of, that they built themselves around, does not exist. There's a similar scene, for those similarly interest, in Charité at War, a German drama about the eponymous hospital during the Second World War.
Remember those trees in that garden in Newark which were about to be chopped down? And the whole urban garden tarmacked for a pointless tiny carpark?
It looks like the nice guys WON. The trees are probably saved. The garden will be preserved. I feel, weirdly, slightly tearful
Well done those people
"Well the fence is still there but the Newark Library trees are very nearly saved. Last minute offer by the landowner which @NSDCouncil will vote on next week. What an incredible 48hrs! "
The lesson is that if it is necessary for trees to be removed - and Sycamores are just big weeds - then it has to be done first.
Nah. The presumption must be: you don't chop down big lovely trees for a fucking car park
Particularly for one that is not needed. There is plenty of car parking in Newark. The problem is not car parks, it is traffic jams caused by piss poor council decisions and unsupported mass development (by which I don't mean people support but infrastructure support).
Trouble is that car parking makes the district council a fecking fortune so they are always looking to build more council car parks in spite of the fact there are cheap and secure NCP car parks available with loads of space even in the lead up to Christmas.
The presumption is that it is weighed in the balance according to the established criteria, with a full aboricultural report for something like this.
Depends what is needed to be done.
The Council could have put TPOs on them years ago if they provide public amenity. The systems have been in place for 50 years. They had decided that that was not appropriate.
If the squatters wanted to object they should have done it in 2018, when PP was given. Afaics no public comments were made.
This is the problem with morons of the Chris Packham variety; they think their rants should override the professional and democratic processes. Not acceptable.
I think the only credible argument against development I have seen is that demand has fallen.
Plenty of the emoto-guff in the paper is made up.
There were lots of objections made at the time. This has been an ongoing issue for several years. Moreover it has the whiff of something dodgy about it anyway. The land was owned by the council who then sold it to a private individual (well known in the town) and then the council wants to rent it back from private hands to build a council car park on it. Meanwhile they start chopping down trees claiming they are diseased (they weren't as I and a colleague of mine who is a tree surgeon inspected one of those they have already cut down whilst it was lying there waiting to be disposed of).
Bear in mind the district council has a history of ignoring its own conservation officers to get their way and a history of being hand in glove with developers and failing to enforce their own rules.
That's actually very interesting.
I couldn't find any on the planning application, 18/01917/FUL. Where have they gone?
I can see that it was a little controversial - Tree Department objected but the Planning Manager said the benefits outweighed the costs in his report..
Agree that that above is the business model proposed.
My strongest objection is attempts to overrule legal processes which have been followed.
Do you think there was something dodgy about the deal for the owner to reverse ferret - reports are that he has taken a hit and met the Council somewhere in the middle?
So, would this be a good moment to remind Boris that if he needs an incorruptible tough Independent Commissioner to get him out of the very large hole he has dug for himself, I may be available at - obviously - Cox-like rates?
😏
If he wants a semi corruptible one I am available at half that rate.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Yes. Again it was that detail on his property claims that made me faintly nauseous
This is a while class of boyars that need to feel the wrath of the voter
That said, you have the exact same class in government in Holyrood. An elite of SNP fat cats who are clearly creaming off the Scottish taxpayer. Grotesquely. And yet you won't say a word against them. Feeble
Folk don't mind people making a bit of cash on the side. Most would if they had the chance. They don't like a bloke doing a full time job while pretending to be an MP. So, while not illegal, people can see Cox for what he is. A piss taker.
If people earning a lot less money such as on benefits did a job on the side to bring fresh meat home to their family, these same MPs would respond how exactly?
Well indeed. I know of folk who've been sanctioned for having their phone turned off during Christmas dinner.
Proof here that once the opposition start getting poll leads, there’s no way back for the govt
There is a way back and that requires Boris's Premiership to end
I just do not see anyway back for him after this idiotic week
It requires rather more self-discipline and hard work from him.
I know, I know.
And a proper crackdown on troughing MPs.
In todays Yougov was this table:
Even Tory voters think there is a lot of corruption. Johnson hasn't hit the bottom yet.
There is a LOT more dodgy business surrounding PPE contracts than has come out yet. If you have corrupt politicians on the one hand and multi billion gbp orders on the other, the payoffs are not in the 100, 000 a year area, they are in the millions
I was browsing the Private Eye special on the dodgy contracts and connections. There is plenty more to reach the main stream press.
But they waste their time on Cox. Useless.
I kind of get your position on Cox but the greedy barsteward slant must have traction. Coining an extra few million a year but still feeling the need to screw an extra £k a month from the taxpayer to pay a mortgage seems a bit...hoggish.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Yep. The Cox story has traction not because of corruption, but because of greed. Simple. And not doing his job as an MP.
His constituents seem to think he does his job as an MP.
Majority (without looking it up) has gone from Lib Dem marginal 3000 to 25k in 15 years.
Though I see that the hatchets are out again in the newspapers .
Are you suggesting that size of majority is directly correlated with doing your job as an MP? Surely not.
It certainly doesn't, and plenty of lazy MPs might have good majorities. But they are the only ones, now he is not a minister, who can say whether he is doing his job as an MP or not - no one else can tell.
That said, that it was known he works a lot as a lawyer and it didn't bother them before doesn't mean it won't bother them now. Most will have forgotten he's been attacked over it before and that they didn't care.
I doubt the situation will arise - he'll have been an MP for nearly 2 decades by the next election, has apparently zero prospects for future advancement and his external work shows already that he would probably not be content to pootle around in his constituency for many more terms (first couple, sure, you have to put in your time).
In a seat previously held by Lib Dems, perhaps yes.
Though I'd correlate it more with paying assiduous attention to constituents individually. That was the Ed Davey trick, and also Ben Bradley. And what Tories hope will keep them the Red Wall.
All shops, bars, restaurants in Holland closing at 8pm
Non essential shops closing at 6pm
No more crowds in sports arenas
Work from home
Social distancing again
The Dutch government will "revisit" this on December 6th. No guarantee that those measures won't be extended
That's a proper lockdown. And it might go on for many weeks....
Jeez
I was walking around London today, and apart from masks on the Tube everything seems pretty normal, as in pre-Covid 19.
It's the same in the North. Except for the lack of integrated public transport.
I note that the double vaxxed rate in the Netherlands is 72% and 74% in Belgium compared to 68% in UK*. In both there must be a lot of antibodies from infection too.
If it really does get out of hand here too, and another Christmas lockdown, then Johnson may be picking up his P45 by Easter.
*Worldometer figures for all.
If there's a lockdown he's had it, but I don't think there will be - partly for that reason. Trying to lock everyone up again would shred what is left of the Government's credibility - as well as being largely ineffectual.
They can, in extremis, force businesses to shut down again, but there's little they can do if private individuals won't cooperate, and there are an awful lot of us out there who aren't going to put up with a load of bullshit rules about which of our friends and family members we can and cannot see again.
Sunak wont agree to the spending required. We've printed all the money we can to save the NHS.
Sunak walking would cause the letters to Brady to mean a contest.
I expect Truss to win.
If it is Truss you may as well stick with Boris.
Truss is already on an abysmal -24% rating with the public on whether she would make a good PM with Mori, even worse than Boris on -21% and worse too than Starmer on -16%.
Your obsession with polls does not translated how a conservative leader campaign may translate into public opinion, though I prefer Rishi as I believe he has the ability and character
Normally it does, Cameron did best in next Tory leader polls with the public in 2005, Boris did best in next Tory leader polls in 2019. Both won the next general election.
Clarke did best in next Tory leader polls in 1997 and 2001 but the Tories picked Hague and IDS and neither won a general election.
On the Labour side Blair did best in 1994 Labour leader polls with the public and won.
David Miliband did best in next Labour leader polls in 2010 and Burnham did best in 2015 but Labour picked Ed Miliband and Corbyn and lost
Yesterday does not look at the future especially with such change around us
You have a visceral dislike of Boris but on this he is correct
France has a duty of care to these migrants as much as we have, and certainly the two countries should be conducting joint patrols to prevent loss of life at sea
No. Boris just doing words as usual, no action. Truth is he knows he signs seven out of ten up to work here, he just wastes time before doing that. He should send Patel down on beaches to tell them where to start work on Monday, it will save our tax payers money
What is your evidence for your claim 70% are signed up to work here
The BBC said it. Are they a bot too or are you too busy to watch the news?
The figures suggest only about a third of those arriving are not deemed to be refugees.
The piece does not even include the word "work", never mind the rest of it.
I think you mean I said work now? What happens then after the four years wait? They stay and they work just like they hoped when they got in the dingy, I think. Or pay for it. Is the news wrong that after long wait seven out of ten do stay and work?
Sometimes it is said international criminal gangs are making it happen. But no one really says that enough in your opinion? The gangs have money and threat. Lots of people desperate to come here are coming in dingie boats on a sort of scale that’s a successful business. 4 years for processing and then 7 out of ten stay. Meantime where do they live, and how do they eat and live? And do locals embrace them. And how much tax payer money is all this? And it’s bad if the gangs behind it are laughing at us and rolling in it.
I still think I am right. You saying every single one is so complicated it takes 4 years? There are no quick wins?
Tell me where I have this all wrong?
I only have one issue with you and that was accusing a long established poster @Philip_Thompson of being a bot
That was out of order and maybe an apology would be nice
Okay I understand now he’s for real. I still think his avatar makes him look very unserious. But I can’t really understand what he saying to be completely sure.
Comments
… into opposition. A British Kim Campbell.
Unless, of course, there is a Blair-Brown style deal at a restaurant in Islington, to give Truss the CoE in exchange for maximum control of domestic policy and a vague promise of a handover.
But. We get ahead of ourselves.
There's not going to be a lockdown because this crisis is over in UK.
Labour have between about 3 and 8% Green VI to garner under FPTP and provably 2% or so of the Lib Dems alongside some tactical voting. In this hyper partisan post Brexit world to have a poll with 60% voting anti-Tory starts to look a bit more tricky for them.
If you were a greedy backbench MP, what would you do?
And Sturgeon is too 'feart' to call one anyway
And yet after Brexit, and facing Poland and Hungary, and with people like Barnier calling for drastic reform of Free Movement (esp with what's happening in Belarus) perhaps there is a place for True EU Reformers to be heard
Otherwise I reckon the EU is doomed. Not enough Europeans believe, or will ever believe, in true political union. A flexible EU, with positive but associate membership for big countries like the UK, is the only way it survives.
Big ask, of course. But worth a punt
Clarke did best in next Tory leader polls in 1997 and 2001 but the Tories picked Hague and IDS and neither won a general election.
On the Labour side Blair did best in 1994 Labour leader polls with the public and won.
David Miliband did best in next Labour leader polls in 2010 and Burnham did best in 2015 but Labour picked Ed Miliband and Corbyn and lost
Trouble is that car parking makes the district council a fecking fortune so they are always looking to build more council car parks in spite of the fact there are cheap and secure NCP car parks available with loads of space even in the lead up to Christmas.
As for the comment about how we remove people, it will be by exception as these things always are. How about we properly staff the Border Force as a starter for 10.
Sunak also did better than Truss in the last ConHome next Tory leader poll.
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2021/08/sunak-leads-our-first-next-tory-leader-survey-in-two-years.html
Plus Tory MPs can read polls, if they need a leader to save their seats they will put Sunak and maybe Javid or Mourdant or Zahawi in the final 2, they will ensure Truss gets knocked out before she even gets to the membership if she would put the final nail in the coffin of them holding their seats.
Wallet over heart I'd want Truss to be CoE and Rishi to be PM.
Jim Pickard
@PickardJE
· 41m
maybe it wasn’t a Westminster Village scandal after all
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1459286865413029899
What's your issue with her? Not 1750s enough for you?
I have no enthusiasm for her whatsover. She is not a Conservative just a non socialist free market Liberal. We may as well have Starmer.
She would also go down like a cup of cold sick in the Redwall.
How far a PM who claimed he can get Brexit down is able offer something tangible in place of a mere slogan is another matter. Cummings seems to be happy to stick his knife in all the way up to the hilt.
Starmer must be punching the ceiling tonight as Johnson self-destructs his own premiership to save Paterson for no other reason than erm... no me neither.
Fraser Nelson in Spectator this weekend is not sparing the full barrels at Johnson's lack of grip and plain old stupidity.
If there's another lockdown, a year after vaccines became available, then that is a catastrophic failure from which there can be no coming back.
If there's no lockdown and we get through a tough winter OK, when across the continent we can regrettably see lockdowns being necessary - then that's going to be a different matter.
I had almost written unforced errors as I was typing, without seeing your post which used that phrase. Respect.
The Council could have put TPOs on them years ago if they provide public amenity. The systems have been in place for 50 years.
I think the inly convincing argument against development I have seen is that demand has fallen.
Rather inevitably twists any judgement.
Have they explained why they travel through lots of different countries just to come here? Throughout history there has been people who just have to move because it’s not safe now, but why not stop where the weather suits them? They must believe it’s safe here?
Ideas.
So can’t sort them into obvious quick wins heading and more complex cases?
Why not allow them to apply for jobs, if at same time there is problem with vacancies and skill shortages? That costs tax payers much less?
SF 24% (-1 from August)
DUP 18% (+5) Alliance 15% (+2) UUP 14% (-2) SDLP 12% (-1) TUV 11% (-1)
https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1459296946577973248
Once again, found with their tongues scrapping the sides of the trough whilst they stroke their fingers over their pig skin wallets.
The ones that I know are mostly Zimbabwean, Afghan or Pakistani Christian.
The Conservative Party at its best is a free market Liberal party. However when it comes to social issues then as Secretary of State for Women and Equalities it seems Truss has been doing sensible pro-women policies, even winning the backing of our own @Cyclefree while standing up for those who get denounced as "TERFs" by other parties.
Your form of "Conservativism" is embarrassing and doesn't belong in the 20th let alone the 21st century.
Oh, and the 49p for milk.
Let's see who is ahead when the GE exit poll comes out.
Starmer in No 10? Really??
GN all see you tomorrow 👍
Cameron and May both pledged tighter immigration controls than Boris did, both pledged cutting down to "tens of thousands" immigration, but that didn't win the North did it?
Levelling up is about sensible reforms not about turning the UK back to the 18th century.
Third on votes, fifth on seats. That would be quite an achievement for Truss.
*Mulroney was to blame though. Described as the equivalent of taking control of a plane 10 seconds before it hit the mountains.
This is a while class of boyars that need to feel the wrath of the voter
That said, you have the exact same class in government in Holyrood. An elite of SNP fat cats who are clearly creaming off the Scottish taxpayer. Grotesquely. And yet you won't say a word against them. Feeble
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/11/12/fba1a/2
They would feel safer here than there. But would they not feel just as safe in south of France and with better weather? With a blank book to write in, where would their quality of life actually be best going forward?
There’s an old bbc play on YouTube of a policeman battling gangs in Birmingham, but his Father back in India has an idealised idea of what it’s like in UK, when he comes he gets beaten up walking down the street by thugs and you feel so sorry for him
Depends what is needed to be done.
The Council could have put TPOs on them years ago if they provide public amenity. The systems have been in place for 50 years. They had decided that that was not appropriate.
If the squatters wanted to object they should have done it in 2018, when PP was given. Afaics no public comments were made.
This is the problem with morons of the Chris Packham variety; they think their rants should override the professional and democratic processes. Not acceptable.
I think the only credible argument against development I have seen is that demand has fallen.
Plenty of the emoto-guff in the paper is made up.
They don't like a bloke doing a full time job while pretending to be an MP. So, while not illegal, people can see Cox for what he is.
A piss taker.
What does that mean?
Why? Because it is very simple for your average punter to comprehend.
Majority (without looking it up) has gone from Lib Dem marginal 3000 to 25k in 15 years.
Though I see that the hatchets are out again in the newspapers
So long as people are judging the Coxes of the world as hoggish or piss taking that is one thing, but what we surely do not want is for people to think piss taking is the be all and end all, when actual compromised corruption may be going on. 'Understanding' the former as the latter is not much help.
People comprehended that MPs were claiming expenses on petty bullshit, but the ones actually being fraudulent still needed to be the main focus, and the two sins were not equal.
Surely not.
Bear in mind the district council has a history of ignoring its own conservation officers to get their way and a history of being hand in glove with developers and failing to enforce their own rules.
But I'm pretty confident that if Cox stands again at the next GE his constituents will severely dent his majority, if not remove it all together.
That said, that it was known he works a lot as a lawyer and it didn't bother them before doesn't mean it won't bother them now. Most will have forgotten he's been attacked over it before and that they didn't care.
I doubt the situation will arise - he'll have been an MP for nearly 2 decades by the next election, has apparently zero prospects for future advancement and his external work shows already that he would probably not be content to pootle around in his constituency for many more terms (first couple, sure, you have to put in your time).
Once sleaze becomes the narrative, as it now has I think, not just OP one bad egg, more arcane (to the general public) stuff will emerge.
Tactically, it was about the broad brush picture of Tory Sleaze being given legs.
The folk memory is strong and still toxic.
It's only one poll, of course, but the potential for a big Tory swingback seems limited. I expect we'll see some more polls on Sunday which will tell us if it's real.
😏
I couldn't find any on the planning application, 18/01917/FUL. Where have they gone?
I can see that it was a little controversial - Tree Department objected but the Planning Manager said the benefits outweighed the costs in his report..
Agree that that above is the business model proposed.
My strongest objection is attempts to overrule legal processes which have been followed.
Do you think there was something dodgy about the deal for the owner to reverse ferret - reports are that he has taken a hit and met the Council somewhere in the middle?
Though I'd correlate it more with paying assiduous attention to constituents individually. That was the Ed Davey trick, and also Ben Bradley. And what Tories hope will keep them the Red Wall.
I think Labour has played this very cannily over the past 2 or 3 weeks.
Namely that they think that being some sleazy middleman is actually what 'business' is all about as opposed to actually adding value along the line.
Whereas in the outside world wannabe 10% merchants get told to sod off.
Then again being a sleazy middleman seems to profitable for the politicians involved. Until that is it ends in disgrace.
Are you in charge in this room or something?