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The Greens are favourite in tonight’s local election bet – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979

    Sandpit said:

    TimT said:

    FPT

    A question for our legal bods on this site.

    I am no Meghan Markle fan, but I do wonder whether the media pundits have got this one right. Reports say that, because Meghan drafted the letter to her father with the possibility of it being leaked in mind, that undermines her claim to 'an expectation of privacy'.

    That just does not make sense to me as an argument. I, as a diplomat, drafted many written communications, from internal memos to telegrams to policy documents, that were classified, and hence clearly had an expectation of privacy. But I also wrote them with a view to how I would defend what I had written if it became public. It would be ludicrous to argue that the classification of those documents should be challenged because I wrote them with the possibility of them becoming public in mind. Similarly, on the face of it, it seems ludicrous to argue that Meghan Markle's expectation of privacy should be questioned purely on the basis of her recognition that, despite that expectation, it might be leaked.

    What do the lawyers think on this?

    Is the bigger issue not, that she has now remembered she was collaborating on a book about herself at the time, therefore has conceded her own right to an expectation of privacy?
    I've not been following it, but I wouldn't have thought so. Cooperating with a book doesn't equate to open house. I choose to share some information about my sometimes eclectic life here, for amusement. Doesn't mean that I want Leon to drop by and scrape all the emails I've ever written to include in his next action-packed thriller. (yeah, well...)
    If a share of profits was involved ……..
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,143

    Leon said:

    Why are Germanic people so anti-vax?

    I get that you can blame the legacy of communism in East Germany, but you can't do that in Austria or Switzerland


    Switzerland is particularly perplexing. The home of so much pharma. The calm, logical land of Rousseau, Paracelsus, Einstein, and Roger Federer. And Le Corbusier. And Nicholas of Flue. And Erich von Daniken

    Swtitzerland. 24.4% of over 12s without a single jab

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1458748644295950344?s=20

    It's weird, isn't it? As you say, Switzerland is particularly odd. This is a country which happily conforms to rules about what flowers you must put in your window-boxes. You'd have thought they'd all dutifully get jabbed when told to.

    Maybe the authorities haven't told them to, but that too is hard to understand.
    Yes. If asked to name a western country, pre-pandemic, that could hit 90% vax rate without vaxports I'd have said Switzerland. They all obey every rule. They do their national service. They cut privet hedges for an hour on every third Saturday

    But life saving vaccines? Nah, fuck that, don't trust the government

    Weird
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Ah, a RobD Imgur graph, that takes me back to the good old days.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    On the EU and boosters, no-one learns from their mistakes.

    But it is also worth remembering that the EU - first time around - really did get a move on once they had supplies. In their peak week, they got 30 million jabs in arms. That's almost one-in-ten adults.

    If they want to, they can certainly get a move on with boosters. And I have no doubt that if things look bad this winter (and they're certainly looking that way in a lot of the continent), then they'll start moving.

    Don't forget, at previous rates (and they have the vaccine supply) they *could* get the most vulnerable half of the population done by Christmas.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Bugger, I'm in London for a city break at the end of the month and planned to use Uber Lux a lot. #CostOfLivingCrisis

    Uber is raising prices in London amid surging demand and a shortfall of drivers.

    Fares will climb by 10pc in the capital and by up to 25pc for airport journeys, the taxi company said. Journeys outside London will not be affected.

    Users have complained of long wait times and drivers cancelling journeys, with the minicab app struggling to get enough drivers on the road to meet demand.

    Even before the price rise, fares had surged due to Uber’s surge pricing algorithm, which pushes up prices to match demand for rides with supply.

    Some users have reported journeys regularly costing more than a black cab ride. The company said the change would make this less frequent.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/11/11/uber-raises-prices-amid-surging-demand-rides/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636641883

    Uber tried to charge me £20 to get from St Pancras to Camden the other day. The model is broken
    The model isn't broken - the issue is they no longer have an endless supply of workers and it's likely that Amazon parcel delivery pays better.
    But that's part of the model. It assumed an infinite supply of fairly cheap labour
    Nope, Uber's model is based on no labour - the cars were supposed to be self driving by about now...
    That's not true.

    Uber is just a radio cab service, with the radios replaced by a mobile app. They absolutely don't want a self driving world because then they have to supply the vehicles.
    Except that they will tell you they’re defininitely not a cab service.

    Oh, and how does a cab service, or a not-a-cab-service, continue to lose $2bn a quarter?
    TSLA, NFTs, Shiba-inu, Uber it's all a giant game of pass the inflating bomb.
    I wouldn't put Tesla in with the rest of them.

    Tesla are legitimately an extremely profitable company with a very bright future.
    Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not - But Tesla is definatly in the Meme Stock box.
    It is but its also an extremely profitable business unlike almost all the other Meme Stocks which are just bad jokes with nothing valuable behind it.

    There's more than just automobiles in Tesla. Their power storage facility side business has a potential to be storing then supplying a considerable proportion of the world's energy in the future so its worth comparing Tesla to energy businesses not just automobile ones.
    Yes, but there’s also a pretty good chance they end up as the MySpace of electric technology, the early success story overwhelmed by the rate of innovation in the sector.
    I completely agree with that, but there's also a pretty good chance they'll end up as the Facebook or Google of electric technology - and given Musk's track record I suspect actually Tesla will be around even after Facebook.

    Tesla's stock valuation is high compared to automobile companies, but its not high compared to eg oil and gas companies. In ten to twenty years time its quite possible that automobiles represent just a fraction of Tesla's revenue stream and if that's the case then they'll be a genuinely sound investment today. Risky but genuinely sound.

    Not like Gamestop or NFT's at all.
    Ask people where their 'full self-driving' cars are.
    Ask people where their solar rooves are.

    Tesla is behaving abysmally with both of these. In particular, they tried to put up the price of solar roof installations by 30-150% - after contracts had been signed. And told people they could pull out of the contract, but lose their deposit. They only backed down recently, six months later - and after some had paid the new price.

    SpaceX is the only part of Musk's empire that could make me believe he isn't a shady sh*t. And that's probably down to Gwynne Shotwell's influence.
    I know its a bit gimmicky but I thought it was interesting in the development of the Hornsdale Power Reserve (then the world's largest) that Musk committed to have it delivered within 100 days or it would be free, then it was delivered after 63 days.

    Self-driving etc isn't there (and I don't know anything about the solar) but when it comes to actually delivering they're generally pretty good at it.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964

    BBC news report on NHS ambulance crisis re England and ITV Wales are reporting on the serious state of Wales NHS ambulance crisis and a patient attacking the Welsh Government

    I believe Scotland is as bad if not worse

    I do not have an answer

    Ambulance leading NW news too. Sounds pretty bloody dismal everywhere.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Sandpit said:

    TimT said:

    FPT

    A question for our legal bods on this site.

    I am no Meghan Markle fan, but I do wonder whether the media pundits have got this one right. Reports say that, because Meghan drafted the letter to her father with the possibility of it being leaked in mind, that undermines her claim to 'an expectation of privacy'.

    That just does not make sense to me as an argument. I, as a diplomat, drafted many written communications, from internal memos to telegrams to policy documents, that were classified, and hence clearly had an expectation of privacy. But I also wrote them with a view to how I would defend what I had written if it became public. It would be ludicrous to argue that the classification of those documents should be challenged because I wrote them with the possibility of them becoming public in mind. Similarly, on the face of it, it seems ludicrous to argue that Meghan Markle's expectation of privacy should be questioned purely on the basis of her recognition that, despite that expectation, it might be leaked.

    What do the lawyers think on this?

    Is the bigger issue not, that she has now remembered she was collaborating on a book about herself at the time, therefore has conceded her own right to an expectation of privacy?
    I've not been following it, but I wouldn't have thought so. Cooperating with a book doesn't equate to open house. I choose to share some information about my sometimes eclectic life here, for amusement. Doesn't mean that I want Leon to drop by and scrape all the emails I've ever written to include in his next action-packed thriller. (yeah, well...)
    You mean the character of Professor Pick Nalmer was not based on you?
  • Options
    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour 295,278,267 votes? Blimey, that's a lot!

    If Starmer does not match it then he should GTFO, loser.
    Some interesting polls on this recently:

    How polls have changed since Starmer became leader:

    Redfield and Winton 🌹LAB+7, 🌳CON-12
    YouGov 🌹Lab+8, 🌳Con-16
    Opinium 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-16
    Ipsos MORI 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-17

    https://twitter.com/AdamRd1989/status/1457780064318222337?t=ahRAljpqCHBAtGgPUQIorQ&s=19

    All bar one do put Starmer 20 points ahead of the point before he became leader, and that was 19 points. I am not particularly a fan, but quite some swing.
    I've recently backed Starmer to be next PM in a modest way. 5ish BF. If anything though he's been drifting.I don't really get why as surely Boris is in more trouble than he's ever been. Is there some view that Labour would use the opportunity of any Tory leadership change to switch too?

    I'd really like to find a bet that focussed on the LD/Green race - perhaps "3rd party seatwise"? Would you 1000 on either the Tories or Labour? (Normally probably yes, but currently - not so sure)


    The trouble with the next Prime Minister market is you need to factor in that Boris might be replaced before the next election, in which case the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative and not Keir Starmer. We've seen this when going from Cameron to May and from May to Boris. The worse the polls get for the blue team, the more likely it is that Boris will walk, and the more likely it is that backbenchers will send in their letters.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    tlg86 said:

    I see the BBC have now named the Labour MP who was sloshed.

    She was named by the Times this morning.
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    BBC news report on NHS ambulance crisis re England and ITV Wales are reporting on the serious state of Wales NHS ambulance crisis and a patient attacking the Welsh Government

    I believe Scotland is as bad if not worse

    I do not have an answer

    Ambulance leading NW news too. Sounds pretty bloody dismal everywhere.
    It is and the BBC need to make the point it is not just England, indeed Scotland and Wales seem worse
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    I see the BBC have now named the Labour MP who was sloshed.

    She was named by the Times this morning.
    She was named by me last night.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    BBC news report on NHS ambulance crisis re England and ITV Wales are reporting on the serious state of Wales NHS ambulance crisis and a patient attacking the Welsh Government

    I believe Scotland is as bad if not worse

    I do not have an answer

    Independence?

    Being serious, I'm worried a lot of shit will hit a lot of fans in such areas pretty soon.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Incredible


    When it's this good, T20 is great great world class sport

    Feel for Pakistan tho. So impressive, yet they lost?

    Have a feeling that the best 2 teams lost their semis.
    Both batting first. Toss too important here.
    Will be the same for the final on Sunday - same ground, same time as today’s match. Back whoever wins the toss.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited November 2021
    dixiedean said:

    BBC news report on NHS ambulance crisis re England and ITV Wales are reporting on the serious state of Wales NHS ambulance crisis and a patient attacking the Welsh Government

    I believe Scotland is as bad if not worse

    I do not have an answer

    Ambulance leading NW news too. Sounds pretty bloody dismal everywhere.
    Catastrophic nurse staffing shortages. I have a friend with chronic epilepsy, who is often in and out of hospital, and he says the chaos and non-responsiveness on the wards are the worst he's seen for ten years. This is at a major London teaching hospital, too.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimT said:

    FPT

    A question for our legal bods on this site.

    I am no Meghan Markle fan, but I do wonder whether the media pundits have got this one right. Reports say that, because Meghan drafted the letter to her father with the possibility of it being leaked in mind, that undermines her claim to 'an expectation of privacy'.

    That just does not make sense to me as an argument. I, as a diplomat, drafted many written communications, from internal memos to telegrams to policy documents, that were classified, and hence clearly had an expectation of privacy. But I also wrote them with a view to how I would defend what I had written if it became public. It would be ludicrous to argue that the classification of those documents should be challenged because I wrote them with the possibility of them becoming public in mind. Similarly, on the face of it, it seems ludicrous to argue that Meghan Markle's expectation of privacy should be questioned purely on the basis of her recognition that, despite that expectation, it might be leaked.

    What do the lawyers think on this?

    Is the bigger issue not, that she has now remembered she was collaborating on a book about herself at the time, therefore has conceded her own right to an expectation of privacy?
    I've not been following it, but I wouldn't have thought so. Cooperating with a book doesn't equate to open house. I choose to share some information about my sometimes eclectic life here, for amusement. Doesn't mean that I want Leon to drop by and scrape all the emails I've ever written to include in his next action-packed thriller. (yeah, well...)
    You mean the character of Professor Pick Nalmer was not based on you?
    Wow, I thought it was NickPalmer McNickPalmerFace that was based on him, but now I see that you're quite right :)

  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour 295,278,267 votes? Blimey, that's a lot!

    If Starmer does not match it then he should GTFO, loser.
    Some interesting polls on this recently:

    How polls have changed since Starmer became leader:

    Redfield and Winton 🌹LAB+7, 🌳CON-12
    YouGov 🌹Lab+8, 🌳Con-16
    Opinium 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-16
    Ipsos MORI 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-17

    https://twitter.com/AdamRd1989/status/1457780064318222337?t=ahRAljpqCHBAtGgPUQIorQ&s=19

    All bar one do put Starmer 20 points ahead of the point before he became leader, and that was 19 points. I am not particularly a fan, but quite some swing.
    I've recently backed Starmer to be next PM in a modest way. 5ish BF. If anything though he's been drifting.I don't really get why as surely Boris is in more trouble than he's ever been. Is there some view that Labour would use the opportunity of any Tory leadership change to switch too?

    I'd really like to find a bet that focussed on the LD/Green race - perhaps "3rd party seatwise"? Would you 1000 on either the Tories or Labour? (Normally probably yes, but currently - not so sure)


    You think the Greens could beat the LD's for seats? I'd be surprised if they improved on their 1 tbh.
    Brighton Pavilion is quite a funny seat. Lucas squeaked in on a 2.4% majority on only 31.3% of the vote, but the voters there clearly like both her and being 'the' Green seat, and now she has a majority of 34.4%.

    I wonder if they'd get a similar situation if they broke through in another seat, but managing that seems, well, hard doesn't begin to describe it - they did well in Bristol West in 2015 but even in 2019 with the LDs presumably stepping asied (in a seat they won in 2010 with 48% of the vote!) they were 28000 votes behind Labour.
    Yup. They are only really competitive in seats held by Labour.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,143
    rcs1000 said:

    On the EU and boosters, no-one learns from their mistakes.

    But it is also worth remembering that the EU - first time around - really did get a move on once they had supplies. In their peak week, they got 30 million jabs in arms. That's almost one-in-ten adults.

    If they want to, they can certainly get a move on with boosters. And I have no doubt that if things look bad this winter (and they're certainly looking that way in a lot of the continent), then they'll start moving.

    Don't forget, at previous rates (and they have the vaccine supply) they *could* get the most vulnerable half of the population done by Christmas.

    Germany tots up its Covid case totals through the day. So far it is on 27k

    Looking like another big day. Nowhere in Europe should be complacently regarding this (including us). A sense of urgency re boosters should be kicking in NOW, everywhere.

    It is too late for parts of Eastern Europe, which got hit before they could vax enough people. Their figures are now trending down, but only because of renewed restrictions, and overwhelming waves of prior infection
  • Options

    dixiedean said:

    BBC news report on NHS ambulance crisis re England and ITV Wales are reporting on the serious state of Wales NHS ambulance crisis and a patient attacking the Welsh Government

    I believe Scotland is as bad if not worse

    I do not have an answer

    Ambulance leading NW news too. Sounds pretty bloody dismal everywhere.
    It is and the BBC need to make the point it is not just England, indeed Scotland and Wales seem worse
    You poop out this stuff on reflex.
    What are the actual verifiable figures for Scotland and Wales being worse?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MikeL said:

    Has nobody spotted that yesterday had the highest number of first doses of Vaccine since July.

    (And highest number of second doses since Sept).

    I did. But I was told it is "data catch up" by Max, who normally knows his Covid onions
    It's still good because what we thought were poor numbers was just an underreporting error. The booster shots look positively smashing at the moment. Should hit 3m per week next week.
    I read that the Netherlands (I think) has only just started boostering over 80s. Madness
    Europe hasn't really learned from out failures at all. I read that they aren't planning to start over 60s boosters until Jan 2020, it's not as though they don't have the supply either. Europe is sitting on something like 200m Pfizer doses for it's booster programme.
    Hmm.. you're making the classic mistake of thinking that 'Europe' acts as though it were a single country. Ireland, France, Denmark, and Spain are far ahead of the UK in jab take-up despite the botched start, and France in particular is going great guns on the boosters. On the other hand, Germany, Switzerland and Austria are still miles behind the UK, and it's beginning to show in their deaths and hospitalisation figures. Further east it's disastrous.

    The Netherlands is about the same as us in total take up, and you can see the protection in the figures. Like us, though, they've got too many cases for comfort:

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1458748635609550848
    France is not "going great guns on the boosters". They're only able to bring in the vaccine pass requirement for over 65s from December 15th - more than a month away. They are seriously behind the UK.

    image
    They most certainly are not miles behind the UK. We have 13.6% of over-12s completely unvaxxed (i.e. not even the first dose), they are on 8.4%.

    Of course, they started later, so applying the same 6-month period that we apply, it's appropriate that the number of triple-jabbed is currently lower than ours. The point is, though, that they are getting on with it, and they are going to enforce it seriously. I fully expect them to get a higher triple-jab rate than us quite quickly.
    They've done better in absolute total jabs because they have introduced rigorous, universal vaxports. I regret that the UK did not do the same, but it was an economic and libertarian choice, that we consciously made - supported by many on here

    The only way you can drive up vax rates to 85%+ is with mandatory vaxports everywhere

    The truly alarming figures in that FT twitter thread is the German-speaking non vaxed proportion of over 12s.

    22-25%!! That's a huge reservoir of potential victims. That's nearly 20 million people in Germany
    Germany really could be the latest victim of the golden rule of covid hubris. The share of positive tests they have at the moment suggests the true level of current cases is quite dramatic.
    I posted the test positivity numbers yesterday, and Germany didn't stand out. It was nowhere near Ireland (14%) or some of South America or Eastern Europe (40+%)
    Where are you getting your positivity numbers from?

    image
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Quincel said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour 295,278,267 votes? Blimey, that's a lot!

    If Starmer does not match it then he should GTFO, loser.
    Some interesting polls on this recently:

    How polls have changed since Starmer became leader:

    Redfield and Winton 🌹LAB+7, 🌳CON-12
    YouGov 🌹Lab+8, 🌳Con-16
    Opinium 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-16
    Ipsos MORI 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-17

    https://twitter.com/AdamRd1989/status/1457780064318222337?t=ahRAljpqCHBAtGgPUQIorQ&s=19

    All bar one do put Starmer 20 points ahead of the point before he became leader, and that was 19 points. I am not particularly a fan, but quite some swing.
    I've recently backed Starmer to be next PM in a modest way. 5ish BF. If anything though he's been drifting.I don't really get why as surely Boris is in more trouble than he's ever been. Is there some view that Labour would use the opportunity of any Tory leadership change to switch too?

    I'd really like to find a bet that focussed on the LD/Green race - perhaps "3rd party seatwise"? Would you 1000 on either the Tories or Labour? (Normally probably yes, but currently - not so sure)


    I think Ladbrokes has a market on which of the LDs/Greens get more votes.
    That market depends very much on how many deposits the Greens can put up. We know the LDs will be at least 600, last time the Greens sat out more than a quarter of the seats.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964

    dixiedean said:

    BBC news report on NHS ambulance crisis re England and ITV Wales are reporting on the serious state of Wales NHS ambulance crisis and a patient attacking the Welsh Government

    I believe Scotland is as bad if not worse

    I do not have an answer

    Ambulance leading NW news too. Sounds pretty bloody dismal everywhere.
    It is and the BBC need to make the point it is not just England, indeed Scotland and Wales seem worse
    You poop out this stuff on reflex.
    What are the actual verifiable figures for Scotland and Wales being worse?
    Not sure the situation in Wales or Scotland is really a matter for the NW news regardless.
    We won't report on a shooting in Manchester without mentioning everyone shot in the USA.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    kle4 said:

    Ah, a RobD Imgur graph, that takes me back to the good old days.

    Not one of my favourites, the blue line is below the red line. ;)
  • Options
    theakestheakes Posts: 842
    Greens are strong in Lancaster, don't they have the Council leader in a coalition.
    The ward is full of students and lecturers and the Greens have polled well there for several years.
    They should walk it.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,143

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MikeL said:

    Has nobody spotted that yesterday had the highest number of first doses of Vaccine since July.

    (And highest number of second doses since Sept).

    I did. But I was told it is "data catch up" by Max, who normally knows his Covid onions
    It's still good because what we thought were poor numbers was just an underreporting error. The booster shots look positively smashing at the moment. Should hit 3m per week next week.
    I read that the Netherlands (I think) has only just started boostering over 80s. Madness
    Europe hasn't really learned from out failures at all. I read that they aren't planning to start over 60s boosters until Jan 2020, it's not as though they don't have the supply either. Europe is sitting on something like 200m Pfizer doses for it's booster programme.
    Hmm.. you're making the classic mistake of thinking that 'Europe' acts as though it were a single country. Ireland, France, Denmark, and Spain are far ahead of the UK in jab take-up despite the botched start, and France in particular is going great guns on the boosters. On the other hand, Germany, Switzerland and Austria are still miles behind the UK, and it's beginning to show in their deaths and hospitalisation figures. Further east it's disastrous.

    The Netherlands is about the same as us in total take up, and you can see the protection in the figures. Like us, though, they've got too many cases for comfort:

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1458748635609550848
    France is not "going great guns on the boosters". They're only able to bring in the vaccine pass requirement for over 65s from December 15th - more than a month away. They are seriously behind the UK.

    image
    They most certainly are not miles behind the UK. We have 13.6% of over-12s completely unvaxxed (i.e. not even the first dose), they are on 8.4%.

    Of course, they started later, so applying the same 6-month period that we apply, it's appropriate that the number of triple-jabbed is currently lower than ours. The point is, though, that they are getting on with it, and they are going to enforce it seriously. I fully expect them to get a higher triple-jab rate than us quite quickly.
    They've done better in absolute total jabs because they have introduced rigorous, universal vaxports. I regret that the UK did not do the same, but it was an economic and libertarian choice, that we consciously made - supported by many on here

    The only way you can drive up vax rates to 85%+ is with mandatory vaxports everywhere

    The truly alarming figures in that FT twitter thread is the German-speaking non vaxed proportion of over 12s.

    22-25%!! That's a huge reservoir of potential victims. That's nearly 20 million people in Germany
    Germany really could be the latest victim of the golden rule of covid hubris. The share of positive tests they have at the moment suggests the true level of current cases is quite dramatic.
    I posted the test positivity numbers yesterday, and Germany didn't stand out. It was nowhere near Ireland (14%) or some of South America or Eastern Europe (40+%)
    Where are you getting your positivity numbers from?

    image
    Rob's right about E Europe tho. Slovenia has a positivity rate of 40%. Bonkers

    Also Ireland? Highly vaxed. Significant early waves. Like Belgium. Yet pretty nasty there. Like Belgium
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour 295,278,267 votes? Blimey, that's a lot!

    If Starmer does not match it then he should GTFO, loser.
    Some interesting polls on this recently:

    How polls have changed since Starmer became leader:

    Redfield and Winton 🌹LAB+7, 🌳CON-12
    YouGov 🌹Lab+8, 🌳Con-16
    Opinium 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-16
    Ipsos MORI 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-17

    https://twitter.com/AdamRd1989/status/1457780064318222337?t=ahRAljpqCHBAtGgPUQIorQ&s=19

    All bar one do put Starmer 20 points ahead of the point before he became leader, and that was 19 points. I am not particularly a fan, but quite some swing.
    I've recently backed Starmer to be next PM in a modest way. 5ish BF. If anything though he's been drifting.I don't really get why as surely Boris is in more trouble than he's ever been. Is there some view that Labour would use the opportunity of any Tory leadership change to switch too?

    I'd really like to find a bet that focussed on the LD/Green race - perhaps "3rd party seatwise"? Would you 1000 on either the Tories or Labour? (Normally probably yes, but currently - not so sure)


    The trouble with the next Prime Minister market is you need to factor in that Boris might be replaced before the next election, in which case the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative and not Keir Starmer. We've seen this when going from Cameron to May and from May to Boris. The worse the polls get for the blue team, the more likely it is that Boris will walk, and the more likely it is that backbenchers will send in their letters.
    That's the bit I love.

    Starmer drifting must point to it being far worse for Boris than I envisioned.

    I was a bit wrong-footed by Maggie's departure. I suspect I'll not spot the signs again.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour 295,278,267 votes? Blimey, that's a lot!

    If Starmer does not match it then he should GTFO, loser.
    Some interesting polls on this recently:

    How polls have changed since Starmer became leader:

    Redfield and Winton 🌹LAB+7, 🌳CON-12
    YouGov 🌹Lab+8, 🌳Con-16
    Opinium 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-16
    Ipsos MORI 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-17

    https://twitter.com/AdamRd1989/status/1457780064318222337?t=ahRAljpqCHBAtGgPUQIorQ&s=19

    All bar one do put Starmer 20 points ahead of the point before he became leader, and that was 19 points. I am not particularly a fan, but quite some swing.
    I've recently backed Starmer to be next PM in a modest way. 5ish BF. If anything though he's been drifting.I don't really get why as surely Boris is in more trouble than he's ever been. Is there some view that Labour would use the opportunity of any Tory leadership change to switch too?

    I'd really like to find a bet that focussed on the LD/Green race - perhaps "3rd party seatwise"? Would you 1000 on either the Tories or Labour? (Normally probably yes, but currently - not so sure)


    The trouble with the next Prime Minister market is you need to factor in that Boris might be replaced before the next election, in which case the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative and not Keir Starmer. We've seen this when going from Cameron to May and from May to Boris. The worse the polls get for the blue team, the more likely it is that Boris will walk, and the more likely it is that backbenchers will send in their letters.
    That's the bit I love.

    Starmer drifting must point to it being far worse for Boris than I envisioned.

    I was a bit wrong-footed by Maggie's departure. I suspect I'll not spot the signs again.
    Presumably Sunak's odds are tightening?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the EU and boosters, no-one learns from their mistakes.

    But it is also worth remembering that the EU - first time around - really did get a move on once they had supplies. In their peak week, they got 30 million jabs in arms. That's almost one-in-ten adults.

    If they want to, they can certainly get a move on with boosters. And I have no doubt that if things look bad this winter (and they're certainly looking that way in a lot of the continent), then they'll start moving.

    Don't forget, at previous rates (and they have the vaccine supply) they *could* get the most vulnerable half of the population done by Christmas.

    Germany tots up its Covid case totals through the day. So far it is on 27k

    Looking like another big day. Nowhere in Europe should be complacently regarding this (including us). A sense of urgency re boosters should be kicking in NOW, everywhere.

    It is too late for parts of Eastern Europe, which got hit before they could vax enough people. Their figures are now trending down, but only because of renewed restrictions, and overwhelming waves of prior infection
    "Germany reports record 50,000 new cases" according to your favourite media outlet...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/nov/11/coronavirus-news-live-europe-covid-deaths-rise-10-in-a-week-10-us-states-sue-over-vaccine-mandates
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,143

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the EU and boosters, no-one learns from their mistakes.

    But it is also worth remembering that the EU - first time around - really did get a move on once they had supplies. In their peak week, they got 30 million jabs in arms. That's almost one-in-ten adults.

    If they want to, they can certainly get a move on with boosters. And I have no doubt that if things look bad this winter (and they're certainly looking that way in a lot of the continent), then they'll start moving.

    Don't forget, at previous rates (and they have the vaccine supply) they *could* get the most vulnerable half of the population done by Christmas.

    Germany tots up its Covid case totals through the day. So far it is on 27k

    Looking like another big day. Nowhere in Europe should be complacently regarding this (including us). A sense of urgency re boosters should be kicking in NOW, everywhere.

    It is too late for parts of Eastern Europe, which got hit before they could vax enough people. Their figures are now trending down, but only because of renewed restrictions, and overwhelming waves of prior infection
    "Germany reports record 50,000 new cases" According to your favourite paper...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/nov/11/coronavirus-news-live-europe-covid-deaths-rise-10-in-a-week-10-us-states-sue-over-vaccine-mandates
    That's yesterday
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the EU and boosters, no-one learns from their mistakes.

    But it is also worth remembering that the EU - first time around - really did get a move on once they had supplies. In their peak week, they got 30 million jabs in arms. That's almost one-in-ten adults.

    If they want to, they can certainly get a move on with boosters. And I have no doubt that if things look bad this winter (and they're certainly looking that way in a lot of the continent), then they'll start moving.

    Don't forget, at previous rates (and they have the vaccine supply) they *could* get the most vulnerable half of the population done by Christmas.

    Germany tots up its Covid case totals through the day. So far it is on 27k

    Looking like another big day. Nowhere in Europe should be complacently regarding this (including us). A sense of urgency re boosters should be kicking in NOW, everywhere.

    It is too late for parts of Eastern Europe, which got hit before they could vax enough people. Their figures are now trending down, but only because of renewed restrictions, and overwhelming waves of prior infection
    "Germany reports record 50,000 new cases" According to your favourite paper...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/nov/11/coronavirus-news-live-europe-covid-deaths-rise-10-in-a-week-10-us-states-sue-over-vaccine-mandates
    That's yesterday
    Doh! 🤭

    I'll go back to my afternoon nap!
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour 295,278,267 votes? Blimey, that's a lot!

    If Starmer does not match it then he should GTFO, loser.
    Some interesting polls on this recently:

    How polls have changed since Starmer became leader:

    Redfield and Winton 🌹LAB+7, 🌳CON-12
    YouGov 🌹Lab+8, 🌳Con-16
    Opinium 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-16
    Ipsos MORI 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-17

    https://twitter.com/AdamRd1989/status/1457780064318222337?t=ahRAljpqCHBAtGgPUQIorQ&s=19

    All bar one do put Starmer 20 points ahead of the point before he became leader, and that was 19 points. I am not particularly a fan, but quite some swing.
    I've recently backed Starmer to be next PM in a modest way. 5ish BF. If anything though he's been drifting.I don't really get why as surely Boris is in more trouble than he's ever been. Is there some view that Labour would use the opportunity of any Tory leadership change to switch too?

    I'd really like to find a bet that focussed on the LD/Green race - perhaps "3rd party seatwise"? Would you 1000 on either the Tories or Labour? (Normally probably yes, but currently - not so sure)


    The trouble with the next Prime Minister market is you need to factor in that Boris might be replaced before the next election, in which case the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative and not Keir Starmer. We've seen this when going from Cameron to May and from May to Boris. The worse the polls get for the blue team, the more likely it is that Boris will walk, and the more likely it is that backbenchers will send in their letters.
    That's the bit I love.

    Starmer drifting must point to it being far worse for Boris than I envisioned.

    I was a bit wrong-footed by Maggie's departure. I suspect I'll not spot the signs again.
    Presumably Sunak's odds are tightening?
    No - basically unchanged.

    PS. Farooq, I need to offer you an apology. Some weeks ago I concluded that you were some sort of a Chinese infiltrator or other. I'm pretty sure I was wrong though. I'm not sure you're quite what you seem, but hey, who is!
  • Options
    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,166

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    Where’s Marcus ?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,442
    Omnium said:

    Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour 295,278,267 votes? Blimey, that's a lot!

    If Starmer does not match it then he should GTFO, loser.
    Some interesting polls on this recently:

    How polls have changed since Starmer became leader:

    Redfield and Winton 🌹LAB+7, 🌳CON-12
    YouGov 🌹Lab+8, 🌳Con-16
    Opinium 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-16
    Ipsos MORI 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-17

    https://twitter.com/AdamRd1989/status/1457780064318222337?t=ahRAljpqCHBAtGgPUQIorQ&s=19

    All bar one do put Starmer 20 points ahead of the point before he became leader, and that was 19 points. I am not particularly a fan, but quite some swing.
    I've recently backed Starmer to be next PM in a modest way. 5ish BF. If anything though he's been drifting.I don't really get why as surely Boris is in more trouble than he's ever been. Is there some view that Labour would use the opportunity of any Tory leadership change to switch too?

    I'd really like to find a bet that focussed on the LD/Green race - perhaps "3rd party seatwise"? Would you 1000 on either the Tories or Labour? (Normally probably yes, but currently - not so sure)


    The trouble with the next Prime Minister market is you need to factor in that Boris might be replaced before the next election, in which case the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative and not Keir Starmer. We've seen this when going from Cameron to May and from May to Boris. The worse the polls get for the blue team, the more likely it is that Boris will walk, and the more likely it is that backbenchers will send in their letters.
    That's the bit I love.

    Starmer drifting must point to it being far worse for Boris than I envisioned.

    I was a bit wrong-footed by Maggie's departure. I suspect I'll not spot the signs again.
    Presumably Sunak's odds are tightening?
    No - basically unchanged.

    PS. Farooq, I need to offer you an apology. Some weeks ago I concluded that you were some sort of a Chinese infiltrator or other. I'm pretty sure I was wrong though. I'm not sure you're quite what you seem, but hey, who is!
    It's always disconcerting when someone new turns up and starts posting with the same sort of rapidity we associate with people who have been around for years. Usually it is a bot. Not always though.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,964
    theakes said:

    Greens are strong in Lancaster, don't they have the Council leader in a coalition.
    The ward is full of students and lecturers and the Greens have polled well there for several years.
    They should walk it.

    Won by Labour back to 2016. Even in 2015 Lab 1st and 3rd Green 2nd.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    Charming. I'd suggest ensuring children have food even if there's a small risk you are taken advantage of by some parents who are slow to cough up, but whatever.

    Next up a letter from the local church advising you best clear your debts before you die or you're shit out of luck with the big man upstairs, you filthy sinner.

    Pretty sure the letter will be from the 'former' strategic head by this time next week.
  • Options
    Greens have been strong in Lancaster area in recent years. Seems a good bet.
  • Options

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
  • Options

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    Could have come straight from a Dicken's novel.

  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour 295,278,267 votes? Blimey, that's a lot!

    If Starmer does not match it then he should GTFO, loser.
    Some interesting polls on this recently:

    How polls have changed since Starmer became leader:

    Redfield and Winton 🌹LAB+7, 🌳CON-12
    YouGov 🌹Lab+8, 🌳Con-16
    Opinium 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-16
    Ipsos MORI 🌹Lab+6, 🌳Con-17

    https://twitter.com/AdamRd1989/status/1457780064318222337?t=ahRAljpqCHBAtGgPUQIorQ&s=19

    All bar one do put Starmer 20 points ahead of the point before he became leader, and that was 19 points. I am not particularly a fan, but quite some swing.
    I've recently backed Starmer to be next PM in a modest way. 5ish BF. If anything though he's been drifting.I don't really get why as surely Boris is in more trouble than he's ever been. Is there some view that Labour would use the opportunity of any Tory leadership change to switch too?

    I'd really like to find a bet that focussed on the LD/Green race - perhaps "3rd party seatwise"? Would you 1000 on either the Tories or Labour? (Normally probably yes, but currently - not so sure)


    The trouble with the next Prime Minister market is you need to factor in that Boris might be replaced before the next election, in which case the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative and not Keir Starmer. We've seen this when going from Cameron to May and from May to Boris. The worse the polls get for the blue team, the more likely it is that Boris will walk, and the more likely it is that backbenchers will send in their letters.
    That's the bit I love.

    Starmer drifting must point to it being far worse for Boris than I envisioned.

    I was a bit wrong-footed by Maggie's departure. I suspect I'll not spot the signs again.
    Presumably Sunak's odds are tightening?
    No - basically unchanged.

    PS. Farooq, I need to offer you an apology. Some weeks ago I concluded that you were some sort of a Chinese infiltrator or other. I'm pretty sure I was wrong though. I'm not sure you're quite what you seem, but hey, who is!
    It's always disconcerting when someone new turns up and starts posting with the same sort of rapidity we associate with people who have been around for years. Usually it is a bot. Not always though.
    Real people ease up over time too. They try, albeit often slightly, to fit in.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,415
    edited November 2021

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
  • Options

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MikeL said:

    Has nobody spotted that yesterday had the highest number of first doses of Vaccine since July.

    (And highest number of second doses since Sept).

    I did. But I was told it is "data catch up" by Max, who normally knows his Covid onions
    It's still good because what we thought were poor numbers was just an underreporting error. The booster shots look positively smashing at the moment. Should hit 3m per week next week.
    I read that the Netherlands (I think) has only just started boostering over 80s. Madness
    Europe hasn't really learned from out failures at all. I read that they aren't planning to start over 60s boosters until Jan 2020, it's not as though they don't have the supply either. Europe is sitting on something like 200m Pfizer doses for it's booster programme.
    Hmm.. you're making the classic mistake of thinking that 'Europe' acts as though it were a single country. Ireland, France, Denmark, and Spain are far ahead of the UK in jab take-up despite the botched start, and France in particular is going great guns on the boosters. On the other hand, Germany, Switzerland and Austria are still miles behind the UK, and it's beginning to show in their deaths and hospitalisation figures. Further east it's disastrous.

    The Netherlands is about the same as us in total take up, and you can see the protection in the figures. Like us, though, they've got too many cases for comfort:

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1458748635609550848
    France is not "going great guns on the boosters". They're only able to bring in the vaccine pass requirement for over 65s from December 15th - more than a month away. They are seriously behind the UK.

    image
    They most certainly are not miles behind the UK. We have 13.6% of over-12s completely unvaxxed (i.e. not even the first dose), they are on 8.4%.

    Of course, they started later, so applying the same 6-month period that we apply, it's appropriate that the number of triple-jabbed is currently lower than ours. The point is, though, that they are getting on with it, and they are going to enforce it seriously. I fully expect them to get a higher triple-jab rate than us quite quickly.
    They've done better in absolute total jabs because they have introduced rigorous, universal vaxports. I regret that the UK did not do the same, but it was an economic and libertarian choice, that we consciously made - supported by many on here

    The only way you can drive up vax rates to 85%+ is with mandatory vaxports everywhere

    The truly alarming figures in that FT twitter thread is the German-speaking non vaxed proportion of over 12s.

    22-25%!! That's a huge reservoir of potential victims. That's nearly 20 million people in Germany
    Germany really could be the latest victim of the golden rule of covid hubris. The share of positive tests they have at the moment suggests the true level of current cases is quite dramatic.
    I posted the test positivity numbers yesterday, and Germany didn't stand out. It was nowhere near Ireland (14%) or some of South America or Eastern Europe (40+%)
    Where are you getting your positivity numbers from?

    image
    According to the UK coronavirus dashboard England's 7 day positivity rate is 9.2% and scotland is similar if not higher so I don't see how they have 4%
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TimT said:

    FPT

    A question for our legal bods on this site.

    I am no Meghan Markle fan, but I do wonder whether the media pundits have got this one right. Reports say that, because Meghan drafted the letter to her father with the possibility of it being leaked in mind, that undermines her claim to 'an expectation of privacy'.

    That just does not make sense to me as an argument. I, as a diplomat, drafted many written communications, from internal memos to telegrams to policy documents, that were classified, and hence clearly had an expectation of privacy. But I also wrote them with a view to how I would defend what I had written if it became public. It would be ludicrous to argue that the classification of those documents should be challenged because I wrote them with the possibility of them becoming public in mind. Similarly, on the face of it, it seems ludicrous to argue that Meghan Markle's expectation of privacy should be questioned purely on the basis of her recognition that, despite that expectation, it might be leaked.

    What do the lawyers think on this?

    IANAL but presumably it is whether they were drafted with the *intention* they would be leaked or the possibility they *might* be leaked
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    "Strategic head" may not be a teacher. Sounds to me like one of those new-fangled admin jobs.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the EU and boosters, no-one learns from their mistakes.

    But it is also worth remembering that the EU - first time around - really did get a move on once they had supplies. In their peak week, they got 30 million jabs in arms. That's almost one-in-ten adults.

    If they want to, they can certainly get a move on with boosters. And I have no doubt that if things look bad this winter (and they're certainly looking that way in a lot of the continent), then they'll start moving.

    Don't forget, at previous rates (and they have the vaccine supply) they *could* get the most vulnerable half of the population done by Christmas.

    Germany tots up its Covid case totals through the day. So far it is on 27k

    Looking like another big day. Nowhere in Europe should be complacently regarding this (including us). A sense of urgency re boosters should be kicking in NOW, everywhere.

    It is too late for parts of Eastern Europe, which got hit before they could vax enough people. Their figures are now trending down, but only because of renewed restrictions, and overwhelming waves of prior infection
    Eastern Europe is infected (so to speak) with antivax propaganda. People who push vaccinations are people like George Soros. Therefore, vaccinations are bad.

    I hope they work it out now. But it's amazing how well cognitive dissonance holds up, even when hospitals are full and people are dying.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    You didn't say "There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.". That's ..
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MikeL said:

    Has nobody spotted that yesterday had the highest number of first doses of Vaccine since July.

    (And highest number of second doses since Sept).

    I did. But I was told it is "data catch up" by Max, who normally knows his Covid onions
    It's still good because what we thought were poor numbers was just an underreporting error. The booster shots look positively smashing at the moment. Should hit 3m per week next week.
    I read that the Netherlands (I think) has only just started boostering over 80s. Madness
    Europe hasn't really learned from out failures at all. I read that they aren't planning to start over 60s boosters until Jan 2020, it's not as though they don't have the supply either. Europe is sitting on something like 200m Pfizer doses for it's booster programme.
    Hmm.. you're making the classic mistake of thinking that 'Europe' acts as though it were a single country. Ireland, France, Denmark, and Spain are far ahead of the UK in jab take-up despite the botched start, and France in particular is going great guns on the boosters. On the other hand, Germany, Switzerland and Austria are still miles behind the UK, and it's beginning to show in their deaths and hospitalisation figures. Further east it's disastrous.

    The Netherlands is about the same as us in total take up, and you can see the protection in the figures. Like us, though, they've got too many cases for comfort:

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1458748635609550848
    France is not "going great guns on the boosters". They're only able to bring in the vaccine pass requirement for over 65s from December 15th - more than a month away. They are seriously behind the UK.

    image
    They most certainly are not miles behind the UK. We have 13.6% of over-12s completely unvaxxed (i.e. not even the first dose), they are on 8.4%.

    Of course, they started later, so applying the same 6-month period that we apply, it's appropriate that the number of triple-jabbed is currently lower than ours. The point is, though, that they are getting on with it, and they are going to enforce it seriously. I fully expect them to get a higher triple-jab rate than us quite quickly.
    They've done better in absolute total jabs because they have introduced rigorous, universal vaxports. I regret that the UK did not do the same, but it was an economic and libertarian choice, that we consciously made - supported by many on here

    The only way you can drive up vax rates to 85%+ is with mandatory vaxports everywhere

    The truly alarming figures in that FT twitter thread is the German-speaking non vaxed proportion of over 12s.

    22-25%!! That's a huge reservoir of potential victims. That's nearly 20 million people in Germany
    Germany really could be the latest victim of the golden rule of covid hubris. The share of positive tests they have at the moment suggests the true level of current cases is quite dramatic.
    I posted the test positivity numbers yesterday, and Germany didn't stand out. It was nowhere near Ireland (14%) or some of South America or Eastern Europe (40+%)
    Where are you getting your positivity numbers from?

    image
    According to the UK coronavirus dashboard England's 7 day positivity rate is 9.2% and scotland is similar if not higher so I don't see how they have 4%
    One includes lateral-flow tests, the other doesn't?
  • Options

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MikeL said:

    Has nobody spotted that yesterday had the highest number of first doses of Vaccine since July.

    (And highest number of second doses since Sept).

    I did. But I was told it is "data catch up" by Max, who normally knows his Covid onions
    It's still good because what we thought were poor numbers was just an underreporting error. The booster shots look positively smashing at the moment. Should hit 3m per week next week.
    I read that the Netherlands (I think) has only just started boostering over 80s. Madness
    Europe hasn't really learned from out failures at all. I read that they aren't planning to start over 60s boosters until Jan 2020, it's not as though they don't have the supply either. Europe is sitting on something like 200m Pfizer doses for it's booster programme.
    Hmm.. you're making the classic mistake of thinking that 'Europe' acts as though it were a single country. Ireland, France, Denmark, and Spain are far ahead of the UK in jab take-up despite the botched start, and France in particular is going great guns on the boosters. On the other hand, Germany, Switzerland and Austria are still miles behind the UK, and it's beginning to show in their deaths and hospitalisation figures. Further east it's disastrous.

    The Netherlands is about the same as us in total take up, and you can see the protection in the figures. Like us, though, they've got too many cases for comfort:

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1458748635609550848
    France is not "going great guns on the boosters". They're only able to bring in the vaccine pass requirement for over 65s from December 15th - more than a month away. They are seriously behind the UK.

    image
    They most certainly are not miles behind the UK. We have 13.6% of over-12s completely unvaxxed (i.e. not even the first dose), they are on 8.4%.

    Of course, they started later, so applying the same 6-month period that we apply, it's appropriate that the number of triple-jabbed is currently lower than ours. The point is, though, that they are getting on with it, and they are going to enforce it seriously. I fully expect them to get a higher triple-jab rate than us quite quickly.
    They've done better in absolute total jabs because they have introduced rigorous, universal vaxports. I regret that the UK did not do the same, but it was an economic and libertarian choice, that we consciously made - supported by many on here

    The only way you can drive up vax rates to 85%+ is with mandatory vaxports everywhere

    The truly alarming figures in that FT twitter thread is the German-speaking non vaxed proportion of over 12s.

    22-25%!! That's a huge reservoir of potential victims. That's nearly 20 million people in Germany
    Germany really could be the latest victim of the golden rule of covid hubris. The share of positive tests they have at the moment suggests the true level of current cases is quite dramatic.
    I posted the test positivity numbers yesterday, and Germany didn't stand out. It was nowhere near Ireland (14%) or some of South America or Eastern Europe (40+%)
    Where are you getting your positivity numbers from?

    image
    According to the UK coronavirus dashboard England's 7 day positivity rate is 9.2% and scotland is similar if not higher so I don't see how they have 4%
    World In Data seems to have UK positivity rates exactly half the numbers on the UK Government's own website.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    eek said:

    Conflict News
    @Conflicts
    ·
    8m
    BREAKING: US warns EU that Russia may be planning an invasion of Ukraine.

    I did say earlier that this crisis was serious

    If true it has just ramped up a whole lot more
    Putin doing Boris a favour by changing the story?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MikeL said:

    Has nobody spotted that yesterday had the highest number of first doses of Vaccine since July.

    (And highest number of second doses since Sept).

    I did. But I was told it is "data catch up" by Max, who normally knows his Covid onions
    It's still good because what we thought were poor numbers was just an underreporting error. The booster shots look positively smashing at the moment. Should hit 3m per week next week.
    I read that the Netherlands (I think) has only just started boostering over 80s. Madness
    Europe hasn't really learned from out failures at all. I read that they aren't planning to start over 60s boosters until Jan 2020, it's not as though they don't have the supply either. Europe is sitting on something like 200m Pfizer doses for it's booster programme.
    Hmm.. you're making the classic mistake of thinking that 'Europe' acts as though it were a single country. Ireland, France, Denmark, and Spain are far ahead of the UK in jab take-up despite the botched start, and France in particular is going great guns on the boosters. On the other hand, Germany, Switzerland and Austria are still miles behind the UK, and it's beginning to show in their deaths and hospitalisation figures. Further east it's disastrous.

    The Netherlands is about the same as us in total take up, and you can see the protection in the figures. Like us, though, they've got too many cases for comfort:

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1458748635609550848
    France is not "going great guns on the boosters". They're only able to bring in the vaccine pass requirement for over 65s from December 15th - more than a month away. They are seriously behind the UK.

    image
    They most certainly are not miles behind the UK. We have 13.6% of over-12s completely unvaxxed (i.e. not even the first dose), they are on 8.4%.

    Of course, they started later, so applying the same 6-month period that we apply, it's appropriate that the number of triple-jabbed is currently lower than ours. The point is, though, that they are getting on with it, and they are going to enforce it seriously. I fully expect them to get a higher triple-jab rate than us quite quickly.
    They've done better in absolute total jabs because they have introduced rigorous, universal vaxports. I regret that the UK did not do the same, but it was an economic and libertarian choice, that we consciously made - supported by many on here

    The only way you can drive up vax rates to 85%+ is with mandatory vaxports everywhere

    The truly alarming figures in that FT twitter thread is the German-speaking non vaxed proportion of over 12s.

    22-25%!! That's a huge reservoir of potential victims. That's nearly 20 million people in Germany
    Germany really could be the latest victim of the golden rule of covid hubris. The share of positive tests they have at the moment suggests the true level of current cases is quite dramatic.
    I posted the test positivity numbers yesterday, and Germany didn't stand out. It was nowhere near Ireland (14%) or some of South America or Eastern Europe (40+%)
    Where are you getting your positivity numbers from?

    image
    That UK number is wrong. I got mine from the Europa Covid page - https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/data-national-14-day-notification-rate-covid-19

    Which I see is 14 days out of date.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    You're the top man.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    FPT
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Warning

    I booked a Covid test for foreign travel with a major provider of Covid tests, which was very competitively priced. After doing so I read their terms and conditions and privacy policy and 'fair processing notice'. It transpired from this that they appear to be collecting DNA samples from the swabs for the purposes of 'research', for which they declare an intention to share with companies and government agencies. They also set out in the privacy policy that there is no unconditional opt out of this research programme. It appears that the intention is to use the data from Covid testing to create a private DNA database. Looking further in the legality of this, they appear to be relying on 'legitimate interests' under the GDPR to avoid having to explicitly seek their customers consent for doing so - it was not mentioned at any point on the website, nor in the standard terms and conditions: only in the privacy policy which of course people are very unlikely to ever read.

    I have complained to them asking for comments on the above, and they immediately refunded my test fee. Some people may not be concerned about this type of activity, but if you are, then I suggest you are extremely careful about non NHS covid testing. Unless the company in question come up with a very convincing explanation, I will be pursuing this privately with a complaint to the ICO.

    This is outrageous & I suggest you also forward your concerns to your MP & maybe to any interested journalists you can track down?

    There is no way that this is an appropriate use of the material provided to this company & they cannot possibly have acquired the appropriate permissions. If anyone within the NHS or UK research community tried to do this, the ethics ctte would string them up.
    Yes indeed. I am waiting for their reply. They may be able to convince me that it is an innocent mistake, but otherwise I will be doing exactly that. The ICO is the first stop.
    I have done a little digging & according to the MRC, the law does permit the use of tissue samples taken as part of diagnostic procedures in certain circumstances. They’re not very clear about what those circumstances are however.

    See https://www.ukri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/MRC-0208212-Human-tissue-and-biological-samples-for-use-in-research.pdf Page 7
    However, the ability to opt out of said permission at a later date is not optional, so far as I can tell. The latest guidance from the Human Tissue Authority is here: https://content.hta.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2020-11/Code A.pdf

    I do not think that a note buried in a company T+Cs counts as valid consent according to the Human Tissue Act 2004 - I would imagine getting your MP to query the HTA about the behaviour of this company would be a good way to get some action taken on this. You could complain to the HTA directly yourself, but I suspect they might take some time to respond.
    @Phil

    Looking in to this guidance, the Human Tissue Authority say that they do not deal with DNA, so it may not fall within their remit. From what I can see however, DNA is dealt with in the Human Tissue Act and its any storage and analysis of it relies on consent, which I would say does not meaningfully exist here.


  • Options
  • Options
    Any news on @FrancisUrquhart ?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    @darkage - Did you find a test provider that doesn't make you consent to DNA analysis?
  • Options

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
  • Options

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Well, he does bank with Lloyds...
  • Options

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Very much so, in fact I am as working class as I am modest.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    I see the BBC have now named the Labour MP who was sloshed.

    Which Labour MP??

    Hopefully not Rachael?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,415
    edited November 2021

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Well, he does bank with Lloyds...
    Well I had to leave Coutts, shocking service.

    Honestly opening a new bank account these days is so much hassle.

    I hope to one day sign up with C. Hoare and Co, just so I can say out loud 'My bankers are Hoares'.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Very much so, in fact I am as working class as I am modest.
    You're not even slightly working class. Perhaps your parents were.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,208

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Well, he does bank with Lloyds...
    Well I had to leave Coutts, shocking service.

    Honestly opening a new bank account these days is so much hassle.

    I hope to one day sign up with C. Hoare and Co, just so I can say out loud 'My bankers are Hoares'.
    I can say that already.

    Nothing to do with C Hoare and Co, I just bank with the NatWest Group.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    edited November 2021
    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,442
    ydoethur said:

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Well, he does bank with Lloyds...
    Well I had to leave Coutts, shocking service.

    Honestly opening a new bank account these days is so much hassle.

    I hope to one day sign up with C. Hoare and Co, just so I can say out loud 'My bankers are Hoares'.
    I can say that already.

    Nothing to do with C Hoare and Co, I just bank with the NatWest Group.
    I used to work for a partnership who banked with Hoares. (Because the founder was such a rogue that no normal bank would touch him.) Endless fun. "I'm going down to London to visit Hoares." etc.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,925

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Please just think of your Private Banker though - in a previous life as a Private Banker it was always the smallest clients who were the hardest work - the few hundred grand they had was more work than it was worth and they were kept on just in case they “made it” or they had great contacts so they were a good intro to people with serious money but they always had a majorly inflated belief in their importance to the banker and bank.

    Be nice and not too demanding - Private Bankers are humans too.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,208
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Well, he does bank with Lloyds...
    Well I had to leave Coutts, shocking service.

    Honestly opening a new bank account these days is so much hassle.

    I hope to one day sign up with C. Hoare and Co, just so I can say out loud 'My bankers are Hoares'.
    I can say that already.

    Nothing to do with C Hoare and Co, I just bank with the NatWest Group.
    I used to work for a partnership who banked with Hoares. (Because the founder was such a rogue that no normal bank would touch him.) Endless fun. "I'm going down to London to visit Hoares." etc.
    It's disappointing that when Cox was taken over in 1923 it was by Lloyd's, not Hoares.

    Otherwise my thesis would have contained the line 'Hoares absorbed Cox.'
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    edited November 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Well, he does bank with Lloyds...
    Well I had to leave Coutts, shocking service.

    Honestly opening a new bank account these days is so much hassle.

    I hope to one day sign up with C. Hoare and Co, just so I can say out loud 'My bankers are Hoares'.
    I can say that already.

    Nothing to do with C Hoare and Co, I just bank with the NatWest Group.
    I used to work for a partnership who banked with Hoares. (Because the founder was such a rogue that no normal bank would touch him.) Endless fun. "I'm going down to London to visit Hoares." etc.
    It's disappointing that when Cox was taken over in 1923 it was by Lloyd's, not Hoares.

    Otherwise my thesis would have contained the line 'Hoares absorbed Cox.'
    Absorbed? Surely it'd be a partnership under the new name "Hoares and Cox".
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964
    boulay said:

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Please just think of your Private Banker though - in a previous life as a Private Banker it was always the smallest clients who were the hardest work - the few hundred grand they had was more work than it was worth and they were kept on just in case they “made it” or they had great contacts so they were a good intro to people with serious money but they always had a majorly inflated belief in their importance to the banker and bank.

    Be nice and not too demanding - Private Bankers are humans too.

    I vaguely recall hearing something about TSE's modesty. Can't quite put my finger on it though.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    Can you expand? Do you mean this was always a minor issue at a teen coming-of-age event and is of no particular concern?
  • Options

    dixiedean said:

    BBC news report on NHS ambulance crisis re England and ITV Wales are reporting on the serious state of Wales NHS ambulance crisis and a patient attacking the Welsh Government

    I believe Scotland is as bad if not worse

    I do not have an answer

    Ambulance leading NW news too. Sounds pretty bloody dismal everywhere.
    Catastrophic nurse staffing shortages. I have a friend with chronic epilepsy, who is often in and out of hospital, and he says the chaos and non-responsiveness on the wards are the worst he's seen for ten years. This is at a major London teaching hospital, too.
    Hence, presumably, the emergency tax NI increase for the NHS Social Care sod it, we know the money is going to the NHS and staying there.

    Healthcare needs a lot of staff to make it work, and staff have just got more expensive.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Relative of mine just got notice for their booster, but the nearest place to receive it is 25 miles way. Things are much better, but there's room for improvement.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    boulay said:

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Please just think of your Private Banker though - in a previous life as a Private Banker it was always the smallest clients who were the hardest work - the few hundred grand they had was more work than it was worth and they were kept on just in case they “made it” or they had great contacts so they were a good intro to people with serious money but they always had a majorly inflated belief in their importance to the banker and bank.

    Be nice and not too demanding - Private Bankers are humans too.

    That goes against everything I believe in.
  • Options

    dixiedean said:

    BBC news report on NHS ambulance crisis re England and ITV Wales are reporting on the serious state of Wales NHS ambulance crisis and a patient attacking the Welsh Government

    I believe Scotland is as bad if not worse

    I do not have an answer

    Ambulance leading NW news too. Sounds pretty bloody dismal everywhere.
    Catastrophic nurse staffing shortages. I have a friend with chronic epilepsy, who is often in and out of hospital, and he says the chaos and non-responsiveness on the wards are the worst he's seen for ten years. This is at a major London teaching hospital, too.
    Hence, presumably, the emergency tax NI increase for the NHS Social Care sod it, we know the money is going to the NHS and staying there.

    Healthcare needs a lot of staff to make it work, and staff have just got more expensive.
    Did Javid say to Johnson, "Oh f*ck, not healthcare!" on appointment? :smile:
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796

    @darkage - Did you find a test provider that doesn't make you consent to DNA analysis?

    I did; and they said when taking the test that the sample would be destroyed. However, it was a vague outfit operating out of a portacabin, so I don't trust them enough to make any recommendation.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    I've just been sent an email from my credit card company concerned that I "stay safe on Black Friday".

    The mind boggles.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    Stocky said:

    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    Can you expand? Do you mean this was always a minor issue at a teen coming-of-age event and is of no particular concern?
    Yes mostly that. Concern of course yes. Police time is the worst of it.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628
    Stocky said:

    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    Can you expand? Do you mean this was always a minor issue at a teen coming-of-age event and is of no particular concern?
    I'm 50 years out of date, but this stuff happened in my day and the head sorted it out. Invariably that involved a lot of shouting at assembly and various punishments. No police involvement. Seemed to work.
  • Options
    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    What a nightmare for all concerned. I think given the boy's behaviour it is hard to see how the authorities could simply ignore it. As to why nobody intervened, I guess it's hard to see what is happening at a disco.
  • Options
    boulay said:

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Please just think of your Private Banker though - in a previous life as a Private Banker it was always the smallest clients who were the hardest work - the few hundred grand they had was more work than it was worth and they were kept on just in case they “made it” or they had great contacts so they were a good intro to people with serious money but they always had a majorly inflated belief in their importance to the banker and bank.

    Be nice and not too demanding - Private Bankers are humans too.

    I am always super nice to bankers who I don't not have to supervise and regulate.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    What was the status of the PTA involvement? Could the invitation has reasonably been interpreted to mean there would be extensive supervision? Realistically, I'd expect alcohol and probably drugs at any teenage party nowadays, unless strictly supervised. Kids at my school (international, in Denmark) certainly had boozy parties with no particular age limit - I remember one kid drinking 16 cans of beer and feeling pretty sorry for himself next day - and nobody thought anything outrageous about it (but he was regarded as an idiot rather than a hero). The sex pest sounds more out of the ordinary and I'm surprised other kids didn't tell him to get lost.

    I can see that the school and even the police can't ignore it once it's been raised, but I doubt if they actively pursue it. I remember talking to the secondary head in a fairly posh school in my patch - she said resignedly that she knew kids were giving each other blow jobs in the nearby park, what could you do?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited November 2021

    The Welsh are savages.

    Pupils whose meal accounts are more than a penny in debt at a school will be left without food at lunchtime.

    The severe warning was issued in a letter to parents sent by Neil Foden – the strategic head of Ysgol Dyffryn Nantlle in Penygroes, Gwynedd – as part of an approach recommended by the local council.

    The ultimatum said the school cook had been instructed not to give food to any pupil ‘if their debt has not been cleared, or, in the future, to children whose accounts do not have enough money to pay for lunch’.

    A deadline of November 19 has been set for parents to get their children’s accounts up to date.


    https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/11/wales-head-refuses-to-feed-kids-more-than-a-penny-in-debt-to-school-15582048/

    What on earth is a 'Strategic Headteacher', and do they have tactical ones as well?
    There are strategic, tactical, and operational head teachers.

    The strategic ones I believe not only look at issues for the school but as part of the wider area.
    Ah, showing my age!
    Lloyds Mayfair Banking have recently given me a Strategic Private Banking Manager as well as a regular Private Banking Manager.
    Oh, you is definitely "working class" :lol:
    Very much so, in fact I am as working class as I am modest.
    If you are working class, you are the only working class privately and Oxbridge educated legal professional Remain and LD voter in the country!
  • Options
    Stocky said:

    I've just been sent an email from my credit card company concerned that I "stay safe on Black Friday".

    The mind boggles.

    OTP fraud/sim jacking is all the rage at the moment, it is going to hit record levels on Black Friday/Cyber Monday weekend.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    Your daughter sounds like a sensible girl!
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,852
    kle4 said:

    Relative of mine just got notice for their booster, but the nearest place to receive it is 25 miles way. Things are much better, but there's room for improvement.

    Indeed, Mrs Stodge and I have to go to Barking (some would say as I'm in East Ham, I'm nearly barking anyway!) as there is nowhere in East Ham offering boosters.

    It doesn't bother us but it will deter some inevitably and regrettably. It's clear the protection offered by the initial two vaccinations does fade with time and we have to get as many triply-vaccinated as possible.

    On a complete tangent, we were talking about the Bullingdon Club last evening.

    A few years ago, I attended the Kingston Blount Racing Club (KBRC) point to point meeting on a cold March afternoon. KBRC is the successor to the Oxford University Hunt Club and one of the races left over from the University was the Bullingdon Club race. About a dozen members of said organisation were in attendance - their dress sense was, to this observer's eyes, more like something out of Brideshead Revisited than practical clothing for an afternoon with the sleet falling horizontally.

    Nonetheless, they had come prepared with picnic hampers and a gazebo - the problem was between the dozen of them they couldn't put it up (no sniggering in the cheap seats). I was left with the thought, pace my old physics teacher, if they were the cream of England, God help the milk.

    They were no trouble, kept themselves to themselves except when they presented a rather ornate trophy to a rather bemused owner of an equally bemused looking horse who had plodded through the mud to win the race. I knew the Hunt secretary and he complained they were more trouble than they were worth but it was all about the tradition etc even though they paid nothing for the race but it was a condition the race kept being run as long as the Bullingdon Club was in existence.

  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    Stocky said:

    I've just been sent an email from my credit card company concerned that I "stay safe on Black Friday".

    The mind boggles.

    OTP fraud/sim jacking is all the rage at the moment, it is going to hit record levels on Black Friday/Cyber Monday weekend.
    Is there anything particular we should be doing to protect ourselves?
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    Your daughter sounds like a sensible girl!
    Thanks, we are very proud of her.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    Biden seems to have had another senior moment.

    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1458845922515951625
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    edited November 2021

    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    What was the status of the PTA involvement? Could the invitation has reasonably been interpreted to mean there would be extensive supervision? Realistically, I'd expect alcohol and probably drugs at any teenage party nowadays, unless strictly supervised. Kids at my school (international, in Denmark) certainly had boozy parties with no particular age limit - I remember one kid drinking 16 cans of beer and feeling pretty sorry for himself next day - and nobody thought anything outrageous about it (but he was regarded as an idiot rather than a hero). The sex pest sounds more out of the ordinary and I'm surprised other kids didn't tell him to get lost.

    I can see that the school and even the police can't ignore it once it's been raised, but I doubt if they actively pursue it. I remember talking to the secondary head in a fairly posh school in my patch - she said resignedly that she knew kids were giving each other blow jobs in the nearby park, what could you do?
    Bloody hell - now I'm even more worried.

    Should this silly boy, age 17, have this on his police record (as I assume it now will be)? Given that my daughter was one of the affected girls you may be surprised that I have some sympathy for the boy - but I do given the extent to which this has escalated. I certainly do not think the police should have been involved.

    And why are the authorities so keen on making victims out of the girls and pursuing the boy when no-one seems concerned about 17 year olds taking drugs?

    I think I'm naive and out of touch on this. But common sense seems lacking to me.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    What was the status of the PTA involvement? Could the invitation has reasonably been interpreted to mean there would be extensive supervision? Realistically, I'd expect alcohol and probably drugs at any teenage party nowadays, unless strictly supervised. Kids at my school (international, in Denmark) certainly had boozy parties with no particular age limit - I remember one kid drinking 16 cans of beer and feeling pretty sorry for himself next day - and nobody thought anything outrageous about it (but he was regarded as an idiot rather than a hero). The sex pest sounds more out of the ordinary and I'm surprised other kids didn't tell him to get lost.

    I can see that the school and even the police can't ignore it once it's been raised, but I doubt if they actively pursue it. I remember talking to the secondary head in a fairly posh school in my patch - she said resignedly that she knew kids were giving each other blow jobs in the nearby park, what could you do?
    It'd all be fantasically pointnless in my view.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited November 2021

    Biden seems to have had another senior moment.

    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1458845922515951625

    A gaffe today, mind you I remember watching the coverage of the 1974 election on BBC Parliament and a commentator on the BBC referred to one candidate in those terms and he is 78
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,208
    If he lives as long as Edward Heath, we'll have a new longest sulk in history.
  • Options
    Stocky said:

    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    What was the status of the PTA involvement? Could the invitation has reasonably been interpreted to mean there would be extensive supervision? Realistically, I'd expect alcohol and probably drugs at any teenage party nowadays, unless strictly supervised. Kids at my school (international, in Denmark) certainly had boozy parties with no particular age limit - I remember one kid drinking 16 cans of beer and feeling pretty sorry for himself next day - and nobody thought anything outrageous about it (but he was regarded as an idiot rather than a hero). The sex pest sounds more out of the ordinary and I'm surprised other kids didn't tell him to get lost.

    I can see that the school and even the police can't ignore it once it's been raised, but I doubt if they actively pursue it. I remember talking to the secondary head in a fairly posh school in my patch - she said resignedly that she knew kids were giving each other blow jobs in the nearby park, what could you do?
    Bloody hell - now I'm even more worried.

    Should this silly boy, age 17, have this on his police record (as I assume it now will be)? Given that my daughter was one of the affected girls you may be surprised that I have some sympathy for the boy - but I do given the extent to which this has escalated. I certainly do not think the police should have been involved.

    Any why are the authorities so keen on making victims out of the girls and pursuing the boy when no-one seems concerned about 17 year olds taking drugs?

    I think I'm naive and out of touch on this. But common sense seems lacking to me.
    I think when we were young a lot of behaviour was put down to "boys will be boys" and girls had to put up with a lot of nasty crap as a result. The pendulum has swung the other way now and anything in the region of sexual assault is treated very seriously. I think I mostly prefer the current approach. Teenage years are messy though, people will do dumb stuff, just like we all did.
    My eldest daughter is 15 and quite sensible compared to me at her age. But maybe this kind of stuff is just around the corner...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,143

    Biden seems to have had another senior moment.

    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1458845922515951625

    OMFG
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,143
    I love this lefty response to Biden using the OTHER N word

    "Typically it’s not acceptable but here he was clearly talking about the Negro Leagues which is what the African American segregated baseball league was called at the time. The outrage here in this thread is entirely misplaced."

    https://twitter.com/rawcrawjaw/status/1458848614655016965?s=20

    I mean, fuck off. Anyone using this term on TV will get cancelled. Except, it seems, a Democrat American President

    Imagine if Trump said it
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    Stocky said:

    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    An experience to report for your consideration.

    My daughter's (age 17) school organised (or rather the PTA organised) a Halloween fancy dress disco at a village hall.

    After the event my daughter told us that there was alcohol available and many pupils were drunk. She said there were some drugs too.

    One of the boys was a sex-pest, walking round drunk/drugged pinching a dozen or so girls' bums and in one case, at least, squeezing a tit.

    My daughter thought the boy a prat, doesn't like him, but was otherwise not overly bothered.

    Her friend happened to talk about it at school within earshot of a teacher. And OMG the beaurocracy, cover-our-arses, wheels have been turning.

    The teacher reported it to the Head and the school safeguarding officer. The girls were talked to. The school called in the Police. The school called us twice - very keen to say how they were following their safeguarding protocols - asking for our permission for my daughter to be interviewed (even though we were told that parental consent was not actually needed legally). The police called us too.

    The police (two of them) visited the school and pulled my daughter plus one other girl (the only two affected girls who were sober during the party they said) interviewed them and took notes.

    The police came back to the school a second time saying that their superiors had said they hadn't done enough and actually needed written statements. These took two hours. My daughter and her friend were pulled out of classes to do this.

    The police have said that my daughter would be asked to appear at court to give evidence should it go that far. They seem, at this stage, to think this unlikely.

    Points that I have noted from this extraordinary experience:

    1) Why were pupils allowed to get drunk at a school (PTA) organised event and how come there were drugs present?
    2) How many police hours and resources have been expended on this?
    3) How many school hours/lost teaching has this cost?
    4) And the boy - why did no organiser notice this boy's behaviour towards the girls - and his drunkenness - and intervene?

    I am left as concerned about 1), 2) and 3) as I am about 4).

    Am I wrong?




    Nothing to see.
    What was the status of the PTA involvement? Could the invitation has reasonably been interpreted to mean there would be extensive supervision? Realistically, I'd expect alcohol and probably drugs at any teenage party nowadays, unless strictly supervised. Kids at my school (international, in Denmark) certainly had boozy parties with no particular age limit - I remember one kid drinking 16 cans of beer and feeling pretty sorry for himself next day - and nobody thought anything outrageous about it (but he was regarded as an idiot rather than a hero). The sex pest sounds more out of the ordinary and I'm surprised other kids didn't tell him to get lost.

    I can see that the school and even the police can't ignore it once it's been raised, but I doubt if they actively pursue it. I remember talking to the secondary head in a fairly posh school in my patch - she said resignedly that she knew kids were giving each other blow jobs in the nearby park, what could you do?
    Bloody hell - now I'm even more worried.

    Should this silly boy, age 17, have this on his police record (as I assume it now will be)? Given that my daughter was one of the affected girls you may be surprised that I have some sympathy for the boy - but I do given the extent to which this has escalated. I certainly do not think the police should have been involved.

    Any why are the authorities so keen on making victims out of the girls and pursuing the boy when no-one seems concerned about 17 year olds taking drugs?

    I think I'm naive and out of touch on this. But common sense seems lacking to me.
    I think when we were young a lot of behaviour was put down to "boys will be boys" and girls had to put up with a lot of nasty crap as a result. The pendulum has swung the other way now and anything in the region of sexual assault is treated very seriously. I think I mostly prefer the current approach. Teenage years are messy though, people will do dumb stuff, just like we all did.
    My eldest daughter is 15 and quite sensible compared to me at her age. But maybe this kind of stuff is just around the corner...
    No girl will ever have to endure 'nasty crap' should I be aware of it. No woman either.
This discussion has been closed.