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The Mail continues with it attacks on Cox – politicalbetting.com

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).
    Yeah me too. I feel much more comfortable working with foreigners than with the English upper middle classes.
    Me too.

    I find foreigners tend not to make sheep jokes about NZers, which most posh Englishmen find irresistibly hilarious.

    I presume the posh Englishmen were all rogered senseless by their gym teachers, so I am willing to cut them a little slack.
    Bullshit!

    I grew up in Victoria, Australia and New Zealanders being sheep shaggers was ubiquitous there.

    If you're excluding Australia from the rest of the world then surely not realising New Zealand even exists is the issue for the rest of the world?
    Philip just wondered about this. Are....you....Australian!?!?
    No, I'm a POME Bastard.

    I grew up there in the 90s though.
    Ah right. Okay thanks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Farooq said:

    Cyclefree said:


    I've been pondering how one distinguishes legitimate outside work done by MPs, and outside work that is, at best, dubious, and have come up with a solution.

    Any MP that claims in the Register that their role is "providing strategic advice" to a profit-making concern is, in all likelihood, raking in money in exchange for influence on government decision-making, and is therefore corrupt. Easy.

    I provided such a test yesterday. If the services the MP provides are ones unrelated to being an MP and for which someone would pay anyway, that's fine.
    kinabalu said:

    "We must do better on standards, says Sunak."

    Rishi is positioning.

    Good lad. Yes I know he is not short of a bob or two. But they respect that in Yarkshire. We need a northern PM instead of these southern wusses.

    Honestly, Sunak is as far from these effete self-aggrandising idiots in most of the rest of the cabinet as you can get.

    He doesn't need to do corruption. He already has all the cash :)
    There's his hedge fund days though. The word is, not clean.
    I have some rather more precise information about what those hedge funds were doing. It is quite a story.

    That test would be a swamp of grey areas. What aspects of commercial life are untouched by government regulation? Every time the government does anything, or, crucially, decides NOT to do anything, someone wins and someone else loses. Your test is freighted with a conservative bias, because it's easier to deny a conflict of interest when MPs are changing nothing, doing nothing, talking about nothing.
    I know. It is not an easy area because there are always edge cases. It was a suggestion. It is easier to accept an MP who is also a doctor working as a doctor one day a week because he or she is paid for their medical skills than because they are an MP. Being an MP is irrelevant to the payment.

    Whereas in something like the IDS case, it is hard to see that he would be paid by the company were he not an MP.

    So maybe some sort of "were it not" test is needed. But the real issue then is who judges and enforces that? If the party leaders won't or grant all sorts of exceptions and the voters aren't sufficiently bothered to let it affect their votes we're back where we started: relying on the "let's trust that they're all good chaps" and a bit stuffed if it turns out that some/many of them aren't.
    Your point about who judges is key, imo. Such judgments will be based on values, and then question of what's right or wrong is deferred to who gets to appoint the people who decide that. All the stuff people have been saying about charity work/medical work/etc can be seen through this lens. On the one hand, Paterson's employer (no, not us, the other one) is making sanitising gel. Yipee, that's a good thing. Saving lives, part of the healthcare industry... right? Well, not quite when you dig into it.
    And what about surgeons? Removing cancer is brilliant, but what if you're stuffing silicon implants into people instead? It suddenly seems less noble.

    I'm coming round more and more to just saying no. No second jobs, no other income, NOTHING. Hold owned businesses in blind trust, etc. You probably need to apply the rules to direct family members too. Every way forward from here, including doing nothing is messy, and something unfair will happen. I'm just coming to the opinion that being unfair on a few prospective future MPs, putting them off with overstringent rules, is less harmful than being unfair to the whole voting public by leaving a safe space for corruption to flourish. I haven't come to a firm conclusion, but I'm feeling more and more hawkish on it.
    Harsh. Wish it weren't necessary as it does impact people who dont deserve that. But nothing else has worked.
  • eek said:

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Tarmacking a lovely garden. Chopping down mature trees. Why? To build a much needed, beautiful building? No, to create a ‘22 space car park’

    Jesus. We are mad and stupid

    ‘Police watching fences go up at Newark Library Garden while local residents gather to try to defend the garden and its mature trees. The trees are due to be felled for an unnecessary car park extension 💔 /1‘

    https://twitter.com/adamcormack_/status/1458760739326472196?s=21

    Isn't that former Minister for Planning Jenrick's neck of the parking lot?
    How can anyone look at this and think it’s a good idea? A fucking CAR PARK
    People are irrational about car parking. Big story in Wigan is plans to knock down the little used market, with a car park (one third occupied) on the roof, to replace it with a smaller market, 400 new homes slap bang in the town centre and move parking slightly further away,
    Cue fury. People love an empty car park more than a full one. It's much more convenient.
    400 new town centre homes will be "bad for the economy" somehow.
    No surprise the Red Wall remains deprived.
    Yes.

    It’s sad, but many of the people living in the Red Wall are basically living in the past.

    I blame not the people themselves, but successive governments who deprive them of any real local agency.
    I'm not sure the curse of NIMBYism is especially unique to the red wall.

    Just down the road from Wigan in Warrington the old market etc also got bulldozed a few years ago along with about a quarter of the town centre. No new homes getting built though, a new cinema complex etc built instead so no NIMBY objections to that.

    However 400 homes and less parking is an odd combination. 400 homes surely should come with 800 parking spaces for those homes.
    Philip, I know this is an old trope of yours but town centre housing does not need two parking spaces per home. We could talk idealistically about this, but I know we differ: but pragmatically, people choosing to live close to the town centre tend to have fewer cars per family, and to use those cars less. Such spaces would be empty, or occupied by cars which would be unused most of the time. It is a very inefficient way of using town centre land.
    Plus Wigan town centre is massively over-provided for my car parking already.
    The resource-efficient solution here would be car clubs.
    I'm sorry but no, absolutely not, Wigan is a town not Islington.

    What percentage of households in Wigan own one or two cars? Do you have the actual facts?

    400 homes without 800 parking spaces is a failure of planning. And for joined up thinking facing the green future they should be off-road parking with the ability to charge vehicles via plugging in.

    300 homes with 600 spaces would be a better use of space than 400 homes with no parking.
    400 homes with 800 parking spaces hasn't been possible under planning since about um 1997 when Prescott changed the rules.

    And there is zero money in an extra parking space but a lot of money in an extra house (or even an extra room rather than a garage).
    Prescott's rules should be reversed.

    The rules should be changed so that 2 off road parking spaces per house are standard not forbidden. It's the best way to tackle climate change, to get people to be able to cleanly charge their vehicles at home.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    You can tell you are state educated - it's learnt not learned.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    What really annoys me are people who are having excitingly busy social lives, making up for lost time, then coming onto social media and fear-mongering about how reckless Johnson is for not mandating masks, and that fear-mongering making other people feel too scared to go out and socialise at all.

    Yesterday was 14 years since I first met my wife (outside a McDonald's in Brixton, naturally). Two years ago we were able to go out to celebrate. Last year, obviously, we celebrated at home. This year, we're fully vaccinated, but my wife still feels it's too risky to go out.

    How can you argue against irrational fear when all the people she might trust a bit are telling her that the people she doesn't trust at all are being reckless and dangerous?

    I'm becoming quite frustrated, so it's clearly time to step away for a bit.

    Funnily enough (it's not funny, obvs) I think people are worse than earlier in the year when they were double jabbed. Now The Booster is the saviour and many are reluctant to do anything without having had it.

    Whether by luck or design the government has presided over a scared nation (cf Max's Italy story).

    How did we get to this.

    Which always reminds me - where is @contrarian I hope he is ok.
    And Francis Urquhart. And gideonwise. A few PB regulars have abruptly gone missing of late

    Concerning
    Would add Black rook. And Pagan.
    And RoyGBiv 👀

    And BluestBlue and Mysticrose
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited November 2021
    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    The leaders of the three main UK parties were all privately educated… and two of the posh twats are knights of the realm!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    edited November 2021
    eek said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    You can tell you are state educated - it's learnt not learned.
    Autocorrect? :innocent:

    Edit: No, I was obviously just States educated :wink:
  • Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
  • Mr. Eagles, I sympathise.

    It must have been hard for you, attending private school yet somehow managing to avoid any classical history.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,968
    edited November 2021

    Mr. Eagles, I sympathise.

    It must have been hard for you, attending private school yet somehow managing to avoid any classical history.

    I have an A in A Level History when A Levels were difficult, classical history was covered at much length during my school days.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    Pulpstar said:

    Smarkets have paid out on restrictions being reintroduced :)

    Jammy git. Their dodgy care worker rule clarification thing landed you that.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    It's a vile prejudice, the worst of all.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Sounds terrible. Your schooling has given you such a disadvantage.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    Why isn’t having private healthcare frowned upon the way private education is? Why should those with more money get better treatment?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited November 2021

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Indeed, Kwasi Kwarteng gets more criticism for going to Eton than anything else.

    Though of course given at least half the establishment and Cabinet, the PM, the Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the LDs and an above average number of British Olympic gold medallists and Oscar winners were privately educated it is not holding us private schoolboys back.

    Indeed the next general election will be the first all private schoolboy general election since 1959
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Well, that's the first I knew of it. Probably due to your legendary modesty?
  • Farooq said:

    Sounds terrible. Your schooling has given you such a disadvantage.

    It is, held me back in life, helped contribute to my shy and modest persona.

    (Actually I was a bit shy and modest at school, it was at university where I became cocky and self assured self.)
  • Selebian said:

    Well, that's the first I knew of it. Probably due to your legendary modesty?

    It is more mythical than it is legendary.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    I had a similar but different experience at business school. It was only after graduating that I became aware of how many of my friends and colleagues came from super wealthy (i.e. $100 million and up) families - in the 10-15% range for the entire class of 210. I had no idea at the time. Once I knew, no-one was embarrassed about it, but it did seem a pattern of them wanting to establish friendships BEFORE the issue of wealth appeared.
  • HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.

    Indeed, Kwasi Kwarteng gets more criticism for going to Eton than anything else.


    Though of course given at least half the establishment and Cabinet, the PM, the Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the LDs were privately educated it is not holding us private schoolboys back
    Really? I thought all the pelters were for him trudging into news studios to exculpate the bunch of crooks to whom he's sold his soul?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Mr. Eagles, I sympathise.

    It must have been hard for you, attending private school yet somehow managing to avoid any classical history.

    I have an A in A Level History when A Levels were difficult, classical history was covered at much length during my school days.
    Yes. a B in the 1980s's was equivalent to an A* today.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    Twitter has fucked up Twitter. Latest tweets have been Facebooked. Terrible idea
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,183

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Tarmacking a lovely garden. Chopping down mature trees. Why? To build a much needed, beautiful building? No, to create a ‘22 space car park’

    Jesus. We are mad and stupid

    ‘Police watching fences go up at Newark Library Garden while local residents gather to try to defend the garden and its mature trees. The trees are due to be felled for an unnecessary car park extension 💔 /1‘

    https://twitter.com/adamcormack_/status/1458760739326472196?s=21

    Isn't that former Minister for Planning Jenrick's neck of the parking lot?
    How can anyone look at this and think it’s a good idea? A fucking CAR PARK
    People are irrational about car parking. Big story in Wigan is plans to knock down the little used market, with a car park (one third occupied) on the roof, to replace it with a smaller market, 400 new homes slap bang in the town centre and move parking slightly further away,
    Cue fury. People love an empty car park more than a full one. It's much more convenient.
    400 new town centre homes will be "bad for the economy" somehow.
    No surprise the Red Wall remains deprived.
    Yes.

    It’s sad, but many of the people living in the Red Wall are basically living in the past.

    I blame not the people themselves, but successive governments who deprive them of any real local agency.
    I'm not sure the curse of NIMBYism is especially unique to the red wall.

    Just down the road from Wigan in Warrington the old market etc also got bulldozed a few years ago along with about a quarter of the town centre. No new homes getting built though, a new cinema complex etc built instead so no NIMBY objections to that.

    However 400 homes and less parking is an odd combination. 400 homes surely should come with 800 parking spaces for those homes.
    Philip, I know this is an old trope of yours but town centre housing does not need two parking spaces per home. We could talk idealistically about this, but I know we differ: but pragmatically, people choosing to live close to the town centre tend to have fewer cars per family, and to use those cars less. Such spaces would be empty, or occupied by cars which would be unused most of the time. It is a very inefficient way of using town centre land.
    Plus Wigan town centre is massively over-provided for my car parking already.
    The resource-efficient solution here would be car clubs.
    I'm sorry but no, absolutely not, Wigan is a town not Islington.

    What percentage of households in Wigan own one or two cars? Do you have the actual facts?

    400 homes without 800 parking spaces is a failure of planning. And for joined up thinking facing the green future they should be off-road parking with the ability to charge vehicles via plugging in.

    300 homes with 600 spaces would be a better use of space than 400 homes with no parking.
    I’m not saying no parking. I’m not being totally idealistic about this. But 800 spaces is far too much.
    Most of these houses will not be two car households. There is an average household size of 2.1, and these will be well under that. Houses with one person do not need two spaces.
    And this is central Wigan, not Standish or Aspull. Town centre locations have much lower rates of car ownership not because of lack of car parking spaces but because people who live without cars or with fewer cars place a higher value on accessible locations.
    Entirely left to the market, you’d expect no more than about 0.7 cars per household somewhere like this.
    We can give these spaces charging points, no problem there. But electric cars are still energy inefficient compared to living a lifestyle where more trips can be walked (because you are somewhere accessible like Central Wigan).
    Note to southerners (not you Philip, I know you’re local): central Wigan is actually quite nice, and getting nicer. And will be more attractive still if HS2 comes.
  • Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Perhaps because of your stunning lack of self awareness in attacking Grammar schools which help those who are bright but not rich enough to go to private school.

    Personally I have nothing against Private schooling at all. Except when those who have benefitted from it like yourself think they have the right to deny some of those benefits to those whose parents are not wealthy enough to send their kids private.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
  • Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Smarkets have paid out on restrictions being reintroduced :)

    Jammy git. Their dodgy care worker rule clarification thing landed you that.
    I had some good customer service from Smarkets, makes me feel reassured using them again in the future. 👍

    Ended up £40 up on that market after a scare nearly left me £200 down.
  • Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    Not Wykehamist?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ClippP said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    Perhaps just the Conservative ones are?
    Have you guys returned the stolen money to the pensioners yet? Or are you waiting or them to die?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Not quite, it is still acceptable to be prejudiced against the male WWC. This is being accentuated among the woker middle class as a disproportionate number of them have sympathy with Boris and Brexit.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I still can't get my head around the Public School right to rule ethos. Which meant officering the British Army and air forces almost completely from the Public Schools in the Great War.

    Edit: it's all very well going on about their great sacrifice. Yes, in one sense. Officers had a short life. But they didn't let anyone but PS old boys be officers. So ... And the other classes/ranks* had to do what they said.

    *yes, I know about the likes of R. H. Tawney serving in the ran ks.

    If the British army hadn't let anyone but PS old boys be officers, they would have run out of officers some time around 1915. See Douglas Haig's final despatch:

    Our universities and public schools throughout the Empire proved once more, as they have proved time and again in the past, that in the formation of character, which is the root of discipline, they have no rivals. Not that universities and public schools enjoy a monopoly of the qualities which make good officers. The life of the British Empire generally has proved sound under the severest tests, and while giving men whom it is an honour for any officer to command, has furnished officers of the highest standard from all ranks of society and all quarters of the world.

    Promotion has been entirely by merit, and the highest appointments were open to the humblest, provided he had the necessary qualifications of character, skill and knowledge. Many instances could be quoted of men who from civil or comparatively humble occupations have risen to important commands. A schoolmaster, a lawyer, a taxicab driver, and an ex-Serjeant-Major have commanded brigades; one editor has commanded a division, and another held successfully the position of Senior Staff Officer to a Regular division; the under-cook of a Cambridge College, a clerk to the Metropolitan Water Board, an insurance clerk, an architect's assistant, and a police inspector became efficient General Staff Officers; a Mess Serjeant, a railway signalman, a coal miner, a market gardener, an assistant secretary to a haberdashers' company, a Quartermaster-Serjeant, and many private soldiers have risen to command battalions; clerks have commanded batteries; a schoolmaster, a collier, the son of a blacksmith, an iron moulder, an instructor in tailoring, an assistant gas engineer, a grocer's assistant, as well as policemen, clerks and privates, have commanded companies or acted as adjutants.


    They wouldn't have called them 'temporary gentlemen' if they'd been gentlemen already.
    Quite. but that was very much forced on the Army. The old standards returned with a bang in peacetime
    So not "officering the British Army and air forces almost completely from the Public Schools in the Great War... they didn't let anyone but PS old boys be officers," then. Not that it was true before the war in the first place anyway - in the late Victorian period you were as likely to find an officer from the middle class as from the aristocracy or gentry, and by 1939 the proportion of middle-class officers was at 89% (up from 59% in 1912).
    But the Public Schools were very much upper AND middle class - and many lower middle class schools aped them.

    There is a very real sense that the PS ethos absolutely dominated.
  • Farooq said:

    Sounds terrible. Your schooling has given you such a disadvantage.

    It is, held me back in life, helped contribute to my shy and modest persona.

    (Actually I was a bit shy and modest at school, it was at university where I became cocky and self assured self.)
    It was the opposite for me. For the first time I met people who were almost as clever as I am. My self-esteem has never recovered.
  • Leon said:

    Twitter has fucked up Twitter. Latest tweets have been Facebooked. Terrible idea

    Not being on Twitter I genuinely have no idea what that means.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    HYUFD said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Indeed, Kwasi Kwarteng gets more criticism for going to Eton than anything else.

    Though of course given at least half the establishment and Cabinet, the PM, the Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the LDs and an above average number of British Olympic gold medallists and Oscar winners were privately educated it is not holding us private schoolboys back.

    Indeed the next general election will be the first all private schoolboy general election since 1959
    We used to call Public schoolboys ‘Wallies with confidence’ - if they were at our school they’d be the nerds you’d see going into the library who got picked last at football, but they were actually quite cocky. I suppose that’s worth the money by itself
  • Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Smarkets have paid out on restrictions being reintroduced :)

    Jammy git. Their dodgy care worker rule clarification thing landed you that.
    I had some good customer service from Smarkets, makes me feel reassured using them again in the future. 👍

    Ended up £40 up on that market after a scare nearly left me £200 down.
    That's good to hear! Did they accept your fat finger error?
  • Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Perhaps because of your stunning lack of self awareness in attacking Grammar schools which help those who are bright but not rich enough to go to private school.

    Personally I have nothing against Private schooling at all. Except when those who have benefitted from it like yourself think they have the right to deny some of those benefits to those whose parents are not wealthy enough to send their kids private.
    I look at facts.

    https://theconversation.com/grammar-schools-damage-social-cohesion-and-make-no-difference-to-exam-grades-new-research-93957

    There is a reason that our greatest ever PM, Lady Thatcher, closed so many grammar schools despite attending one herself.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Cookie said:

    Note to southerners

    Everything south of Kendal is the south.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    I bow to your superior knowledge.

    And would you like a drink, sir? I can recommend the Leflaive Premier Cru with the Dover Sole ... ;)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    It is hard to move in middle class London circles without realising, slowly, that you are surrounded by them.

    It’s like that Harry Enfield sketch on “Birds”, except instead of working class folk, it’s privately educated chaps called Toby or Seb.

    I don’t mind personally, but it’s sobering to think of what it implies in terms of wasted human capital.
    It's not so prevalent in Scotland though Edinburgh tries its best.
    What's more disturbing is the poshos' infiltration of the arts. The Old Etonian of today is more likely to win a BAFTA than an MC in some dusty ditch in Helmand.
    The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artists_Rifles were always fearfully upper class - full of poshos who painted.

    Their later incarnation, of course, brings to mind the idea of men in black who can do terrible things with a palette knife.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    Not Wykehamist?
    Definitely Wykehamist.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    algarkirk said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Not quite, it is still acceptable to be prejudiced against the male WWC. This is being accentuated among the woker middle class as a disproportionate number of them have sympathy with Boris and Brexit.

    Hillary's 'deplorables' comment was a pretty accurate reflection of most upper middle class left liberals think of Trump or Leave and Boris voting white working class males
  • isam said:

    Why isn’t having private healthcare frowned upon the way private education is? Why should those with more money get better treatment?

    I agree with you. I turned down the private health insurance offered by work and don't send my kids to private school. Healthcare and education are basic services that should be available to everyone at a high quality level.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Smarkets have paid out on restrictions being reintroduced :)

    Jammy git. Their dodgy care worker rule clarification thing landed you that.
    I had some good customer service from Smarkets, makes me feel reassured using them again in the future. 👍

    Ended up £40 up on that market after a scare nearly left me £200 down.
    They still screwed up on the 'clarifications' (or the initial market description) though. Even though I came out ahead and probably didn't lose any profit due to that in the end.

    I'm just glad this one's done now.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Farooq said:

    Sounds terrible. Your schooling has given you such a disadvantage.

    It is, held me back in life, helped contribute to my shy and modest persona.

    (Actually I was a bit shy and modest at school, it was at university where I became cocky and self assured self.)
    Cambridge does that to a lad. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Perhaps because of your stunning lack of self awareness in attacking Grammar schools which help those who are bright but not rich enough to go to private school.

    Personally I have nothing against Private schooling at all. Except when those who have benefitted from it like yourself think they have the right to deny some of those benefits to those whose parents are not wealthy enough to send their kids private.
    I look at facts.

    https://theconversation.com/grammar-schools-damage-social-cohesion-and-make-no-difference-to-exam-grades-new-research-93957

    There is a reason that our greatest ever PM, Lady Thatcher, closed so many grammar schools despite attending one herself.
    That was Heath and Wilson mainly.

    Dispproprtionally grammars still get a higher number into Oxbridge and law and medicine than comprehensives do and they are the only state schools which beat some private schools in league tables
  • Farooq said:

    Sounds terrible. Your schooling has given you such a disadvantage.

    It is, held me back in life, helped contribute to my shy and modest persona.

    (Actually I was a bit shy and modest at school, it was at university where I became cocky and self assured self.)
    It was the opposite for me. For the first time I met people who were almost as clever as I am. My self-esteem has never recovered.
    A few of my contemporaries at university had that same experience.

    It was brutal.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    edited November 2021
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Note to southerners

    Everything south of Kendal is the south.
    I'd put the boundary further north than Leicester West

    Edit: Damn, she's 'Kendall' with two 'l's, isn't she :disappointed:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248

    Leon said:

    Twitter has fucked up Twitter. Latest tweets have been Facebooked. Terrible idea

    Not being on Twitter I genuinely have no idea what that means.
    It's the one, indispensable feature that makes up for all of Twitter's manifold flaws.

    If you are interested in a subject you type it in the search bar. Say, "Austria Covid". You tap Latest, and you will then get (or you used to get) all the most recent tweets on that subject. It is a fantastic resource. A personally curated real-time news feed of facts, opinions, videos, jokes, memes, relating to your chosen subject

    Now Twitter seems to have done some weird Facebook Insta shit on Latest Tweets, so they aren't the most recent. They appear near-random (tho I would guess they are not). There is very little chronological order. Sometimes the tweets are from hours or days ago. Or they will be from just a few people.

    Maddening. It destroys Twitter's USP.

    People are speculating why it has happened. It is allegedly a glitch in an upgrade but others have doubts. I reckon Twitter is experimenting with new feeds, or they are trying to drive users to a paid-for premium service
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2021

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Smarkets have paid out on restrictions being reintroduced :)

    Jammy git. Their dodgy care worker rule clarification thing landed you that.
    I had some good customer service from Smarkets, makes me feel reassured using them again in the future. 👍

    Ended up £40 up on that market after a scare nearly left me £200 down.
    That's good to hear! Did they accept your fat finger error?
    I couldn't understand why my numbers were so bad, because even having clicked Lay instead of Back it shouldn't have matched - and even if it had, it should have just cancelled my back not been a huge deficit.

    Turns out I'd also gotten Stake and Odds backwards. Instead of Backing at 1.2 with a stake of £200 I'd somehow Laid at 200 with a stake of £1.20 😨. Laying a market currently trading at 1.1 at 200 was certainly not my intention and no wonder it got matched instantly by their bots.

    Not something I'd ever want to do again, but they have a "Clear and Obvious Error" policy and they accepted that laying at 200 was a clear and obvious error so that bet got voided.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    isam said:

    Why isn’t having private healthcare frowned upon the way private education is? Why should those with more money get better treatment?

    I agree with you. I turned down the private health insurance offered by work and don't send my kids to private school. Healthcare and education are basic services that should be available to everyone at a high quality level.
    Shopping and food are basic services that should be available to everyone, so abolish M & S and Waitrose on the same logic and send everyone to Tesco, Asda or Lidl

  • Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Does the British public think Scotland should be an independent country?

    Yes: 26%
    No: 47%
    Don't know: 27%

    Respondents aged 25-34 are the most likely to say yes (32%), while those aged 65+ are the most likely to say no (65%).
  • Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Perhaps because of your stunning lack of self awareness in attacking Grammar schools which help those who are bright but not rich enough to go to private school.

    Personally I have nothing against Private schooling at all. Except when those who have benefitted from it like yourself think they have the right to deny some of those benefits to those whose parents are not wealthy enough to send their kids private.
    I look at facts.

    https://theconversation.com/grammar-schools-damage-social-cohesion-and-make-no-difference-to-exam-grades-new-research-93957

    There is a reason that our greatest ever PM, Lady Thatcher, closed so many grammar schools despite attending one herself.
    Agreed. I would be in favour of grammar schools if their impact on society were like their proponents say it is. Since it isn't, I'm not.
  • HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Why isn’t having private healthcare frowned upon the way private education is? Why should those with more money get better treatment?

    I agree with you. I turned down the private health insurance offered by work and don't send my kids to private school. Healthcare and education are basic services that should be available to everyone at a high quality level.
    Shopping and food are basic services that should be available to everyone, so abolish M & S and Waitrose on the same logic and send everyone to Tesco, Asda or Lidl
    You are so basic sometimes.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    Does the British public think Scotland should be an independent country?

    Yes: 26%
    No: 47%
    Don't know: 27%

    Respondents aged 25-34 are the most likely to say yes (32%), while those aged 65+ are the most likely to say no (65%).

    Do you have the Scottish subsample?
  • Selebian said:

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Smarkets have paid out on restrictions being reintroduced :)

    Jammy git. Their dodgy care worker rule clarification thing landed you that.
    I had some good customer service from Smarkets, makes me feel reassured using them again in the future. 👍

    Ended up £40 up on that market after a scare nearly left me £200 down.
    They still screwed up on the 'clarifications' (or the initial market description) though. Even though I came out ahead and probably didn't lose any profit due to that in the end.

    I'm just glad this one's done now.
    Oh agreed, that was badly handled.

    But people tend to complain, rather than say when things go right, so personally speaking credit where credit's due I'm glad they voided my erroneous bet rather than just saying I had to live with it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Carnyx said:

    I still can't get my head around the Public School right to rule ethos. Which meant officering the British Army and air forces almost completely from the Public Schools in the Great War.

    Edit: it's all very well going on about their great sacrifice. Yes, in one sense. Officers had a short life. But they didn't let anyone but PS old boys be officers. So ... And the other classes/ranks* had to do what they said.

    *yes, I know about the likes of R. H. Tawney serving in the ran ks.

    If the British army hadn't let anyone but PS old boys be officers, they would have run out of officers some time around 1915. See Douglas Haig's final despatch:

    Our universities and public schools throughout the Empire proved once more, as they have proved time and again in the past, that in the formation of character, which is the root of discipline, they have no rivals. Not that universities and public schools enjoy a monopoly of the qualities which make good officers. The life of the British Empire generally has proved sound under the severest tests, and while giving men whom it is an honour for any officer to command, has furnished officers of the highest standard from all ranks of society and all quarters of the world.

    Promotion has been entirely by merit, and the highest appointments were open to the humblest, provided he had the necessary qualifications of character, skill and knowledge. Many instances could be quoted of men who from civil or comparatively humble occupations have risen to important commands. A schoolmaster, a lawyer, a taxicab driver, and an ex-Serjeant-Major have commanded brigades; one editor has commanded a division, and another held successfully the position of Senior Staff Officer to a Regular division; the under-cook of a Cambridge College, a clerk to the Metropolitan Water Board, an insurance clerk, an architect's assistant, and a police inspector became efficient General Staff Officers; a Mess Serjeant, a railway signalman, a coal miner, a market gardener, an assistant secretary to a haberdashers' company, a Quartermaster-Serjeant, and many private soldiers have risen to command battalions; clerks have commanded batteries; a schoolmaster, a collier, the son of a blacksmith, an iron moulder, an instructor in tailoring, an assistant gas engineer, a grocer's assistant, as well as policemen, clerks and privates, have commanded companies or acted as adjutants.


    They wouldn't have called them 'temporary gentlemen' if they'd been gentlemen already.
    Going back a century further, you get the impression that the higher classes in the military really wanted to avoid mixing with the hoi polloi.

    At Dover, there is a Grand Shaft (fnarr, fnarr) leading down to the base of the cliffs. It has three staircases winding down. The three stairs were designated for different groups: "gentlemen and their ladies", "officers and their wives" and "soldiers and their women"

    https://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/Gateway/Results_Single.aspx?uid=d8b03f18-1452-4300-9601-d91ec65ba499&resourceID=19191
  • Farooq said:

    Sounds terrible. Your schooling has given you such a disadvantage.

    It is, held me back in life, helped contribute to my shy and modest persona.

    (Actually I was a bit shy and modest at school, it was at university where I became cocky and self assured self.)
    Cambridge does that to a lad. ;)
    It does.

    My choice of university/degree was a fraught process.

    I was expected to follow in the family profession and become a doctor but I realised around the age of 12/13 it really wasn't for me, my father was fine with it, my mother devastated, then it dawned on my mother I wouldn't be going to the University of Sheffield and coming back home every day but going far away and she was worried that girls would corrupt her innocent son.

    I'm fairly certain my mother sent me to a private school was because it was an all boys school.

    I loved every moment of university, met some great people and started some deep and long lasting friendships.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 38% (+2)
    CON: 36% (-1)
    LDEM: 10% (-)
    GRN: 6% (-)

    via @RedfieldWilton, 10 Nov
    Chgs. w/ 08 Nov

  • Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    I bow to your superior knowledge.

    And would you like a drink, sir? I can recommend the Leflaive Premier Cru with the Dover Sole ... ;)
    If 'Wykehamite' is an example of his superior knowledge, you should be offering him Penfolds Bin 389 Cabernet Shiraz with the fish.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    isam said:

    Why isn’t having private healthcare frowned upon the way private education is? Why should those with more money get better treatment?

    I agree with you. I turned down the private health insurance offered by work and don't send my kids to private school. Healthcare and education are basic services that should be available to everyone at a high quality level.
    I don’t think we actually agree! I am happy for people with the money to send their kids to private school and have private health. I am considering the latter myself. Doesn’t bother me that some people can afford better. I think the basic services should be available to everyone at a basic level rather than high

    That said, when we were moaning about how long we waited in uncomfortable seating before my girlfriends C Section last month, I did have to remind her this was for nothing, and going private was at least 6k
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    The version I always heard was:

    An Etonian, a Wykehamist and a Harrovian are in a room when a lady walks in. The Etonian demands a chair for the lady, the Wykehamist arranges a chair is brought to her and the Harrovian sits on it.

    Notice how none of them actually gets the chair. In fact, the oik getting the chair isn't even mentioned. The English class system in action.
    In my career I have constantly found myself in meetings being one of the few non-privately educated attendees.

    It’s kind of terrifying.

    (My career was consulting, then advertising, then digital tech).

    Ditto. I am often the only state schooled person in a meeting, or at a dinner

    Erotic Flint Knapping is a surprisingly pukka world

    Indeed I am still discovering quite how many of my friends are posh in this way. eg last week I learned that one of my oldest friends went to Fettes (Blair's old school, the Eton of Scotland). We were druggies together at UCL and I never thought to ask him about his schooling, ever. An odd omission, but heroin takes priority when you're 23
    Intrigued by this... How do you know? As alluded to in your last paragraph, it's not something I know about several people I count as friends; I know the school sector of very few of my colleagues.

    I would guess that most of them were state educated, but I do not know.

    Having said that, most of my acquaintance whom I know to have been privately educated have tended to make that known (the most reticent of those was someone who was at Eton, on a scholarship, with Prince Harry - I didn't know he was an Etonian until Harry came up in conversation one day and he made clear his unfavourable view from personal experience!)
    Really? The privately educated people I know tend to be very quiet about it. It’s not exactly a source of shame, but some minor embarrassment at least – ‘actually, I had quite a few advantages to get where I am’.
    I find where people are from, grew up, went to school fascinating. I’m probably nosier than most about this, certainly if they went to school in Greater Manchester and I can therefore unearth some link to someone else they might know (‘oh, you went to Cheadle Hulme High? Did you know x?’ etc.)
    Yep, well it's an observation among those that I know to have been privately educated. Almost by definition biased towards those who would make it known. I work far from where I grew up and know next to nothing of the local schools, so I don't tend to ask colleagues, even local ones, where they went to school. I might be surrounded by Old Etonians who don't care to make that known.

    One of my closest university friends went to a private school. She was very coy about it. I knew her for quite some time before I learned that.
    Bigotry towards the privately educated is the last acceptable bigotry in this country so we learn to keep it quiet.

    I have experienced more bigotry in this country on the grounds of my private education than I have ever for my skin colour or the religion of my parents.
    Imagine being a ginger OE…
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited November 2021
    Lol, I was doing an idle search for something on the internet and this page came up for the MOD. Finger on the pulse..

    'The international military campaign has reduced the terrorist threat from this region and helped train a 350,000 strong Afghan National Security Force, which now has security responsibility for Afghanistan's 30 million citizens.'

    'Since the drawdown of force elements, British troops are now stationed in Kabul where they take the lead within the Kabul Security Force, a 7 nation organisation which provides vital force protection for UK and coalition advisors who are working with our Afghan partners to increase the capabilities and capacity across the Afghan National Defence and Security Forces.'

    https://www.army.mod.uk/deployments/afghanistan/
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Twitter has fucked up Twitter. Latest tweets have been Facebooked. Terrible idea

    Not being on Twitter I genuinely have no idea what that means.
    It's the one, indispensable feature that makes up for all of Twitter's manifold flaws.

    If you are interested in a subject you type it in the search bar. Say, "Austria Covid". You tap Latest, and you will then get (or you used to get) all the most recent tweets on that subject. It is a fantastic resource. A personally curated real-time news feed of facts, opinions, videos, jokes, memes, relating to your chosen subject

    Now Twitter seems to have done some weird Facebook Insta shit on Latest Tweets, so they aren't the most recent. They appear near-random (tho I would guess they are not). There is very little chronological order. Sometimes the tweets are from hours or days ago. Or they will be from just a few people.

    Maddening. It destroys Twitter's USP.

    People are speculating why it has happened. It is allegedly a glitch in an upgrade but others have doubts. I reckon Twitter is experimenting with new feeds, or they are trying to drive users to a paid-for premium service
    If twitter blue ($2.99 a month I believe) gives me a chronological order feed I would given them the $2.99 a month.

    The fact there isn't a filter on the feed beyond my selection of people I follow is why I like twitter.
  • Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    I bow to your superior knowledge.

    And would you like a drink, sir? I can recommend the Leflaive Premier Cru with the Dover Sole ... ;)
    If 'Wykehamite' is an example of his superior knowledge, you should be offering him Penfolds Bin 389 Cabernet Shiraz with the fish.
    I know you're joking, but that is a good wine. 🍷 👍
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,968
    edited November 2021
    Charles said:

    Imagine being a ginger OE…

    I actually know a ginger OE from my uni days, what made it doubly funny was the fact he sounded exactly like Harry Enfield's Tim Nice-But-Dim.

    Probably one of the most intelligent people I know.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    Theory: all social media platforms will eventually mutilate their own interface until they become hated and unusable, and no one knows why this is a universal law, but it is
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    Not Wykehamist?
    Oops. Yep. I’ll go and hide now
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Regarding F1

    It seems a lot of essential equipment has still not arrived in Brazil.

    Jennie Gow
    @JennieGow
    To clarify: the delayed kit is 2 plane loads of freight. All the last minute stuff, like power units, cars, pit wall kits - all the essential stuff that gets taken race to race.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Carnyx said:

    I still can't get my head around the Public School right to rule ethos. Which meant officering the British Army and air forces almost completely from the Public Schools in the Great War.

    Edit: it's all very well going on about their great sacrifice. Yes, in one sense. Officers had a short life. But they didn't let anyone but PS old boys be officers. So ... And the other classes/ranks* had to do what they said.

    *yes, I know about the likes of R. H. Tawney serving in the ran ks.

    If the British army hadn't let anyone but PS old boys be officers, they would have run out of officers some time around 1915. See Douglas Haig's final despatch:

    Our universities and public schools throughout the Empire proved once more, as they have proved time and again in the past, that in the formation of character, which is the root of discipline, they have no rivals. Not that universities and public schools enjoy a monopoly of the qualities which make good officers. The life of the British Empire generally has proved sound under the severest tests, and while giving men whom it is an honour for any officer to command, has furnished officers of the highest standard from all ranks of society and all quarters of the world.

    Promotion has been entirely by merit, and the highest appointments were open to the humblest, provided he had the necessary qualifications of character, skill and knowledge. Many instances could be quoted of men who from civil or comparatively humble occupations have risen to important commands. A schoolmaster, a lawyer, a taxicab driver, and an ex-Serjeant-Major have commanded brigades; one editor has commanded a division, and another held successfully the position of Senior Staff Officer to a Regular division; the under-cook of a Cambridge College, a clerk to the Metropolitan Water Board, an insurance clerk, an architect's assistant, and a police inspector became efficient General Staff Officers; a Mess Serjeant, a railway signalman, a coal miner, a market gardener, an assistant secretary to a haberdashers' company, a Quartermaster-Serjeant, and many private soldiers have risen to command battalions; clerks have commanded batteries; a schoolmaster, a collier, the son of a blacksmith, an iron moulder, an instructor in tailoring, an assistant gas engineer, a grocer's assistant, as well as policemen, clerks and privates, have commanded companies or acted as adjutants.


    They wouldn't have called them 'temporary gentlemen' if they'd been gentlemen already.
    Going back a century further, you get the impression that the higher classes in the military really wanted to avoid mixing with the hoi polloi.

    At Dover, there is a Grand Shaft (fnarr, fnarr) leading down to the base of the cliffs. It has three staircases winding down. The three stairs were designated for different groups: "gentlemen and their ladies", "officers and their wives" and "soldiers and their women"

    https://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/Gateway/Results_Single.aspx?uid=d8b03f18-1452-4300-9601-d91ec65ba499&resourceID=19191
    Only open on special days. I managed to get down to a Western Heights open day the summer before you know what, and got to go down the Shaft. Extraordinary triple helix with windows opening onto on a central empty well, to allow rapid deployment of Tommy Atkins from the barracks on the hilltop down to shore and invading Frenchman level.

    https://doverwesternheights.org/grand-shaft/
  • Redfield and Wilton.

    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1458811770957615104
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    I bow to your superior knowledge.

    And would you like a drink, sir? I can recommend the Leflaive Premier Cru with the Dover Sole ... ;)
    I have 4 dinners in the next week, so I’m all sole-d out
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited November 2021


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov

    Would see a Labour and SNP government most likely.

    The Tories would still have most seats in a hung parliament though, EC on the new boundaries gives the Tories 288 seats and Labour 275 on the new Redfield poll
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=36&LAB=38&LIB=10&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=22.3&SCOTLAB=18.3&SCOTLIB=6.3&SCOTReform=0.7&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    I bow to your superior knowledge.

    And would you like a drink, sir? I can recommend the Leflaive Premier Cru with the Dover Sole ... ;)
    If 'Wykehamite' is an example of his superior knowledge, you should be offering him Penfolds Bin 389 Cabernet Shiraz with the fish.
    I know you're joking, but that is a good wine. 🍷 👍
    Oh, I'm not dissing Aussie reds - I love them. Memories of a Kangaroo Island wildlife safari with the barbecue going.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    isam said:

    Why isn’t having private healthcare frowned upon the way private education is? Why should those with more money get better treatment?

    I agree with you. I turned down the private health insurance offered by work and don't send my kids to private school. Healthcare and education are basic services that should be available to everyone at a high quality level.
    You are not Diane Abbott and you can save the £5 on school fees.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    Not Wykehamist?
    Oops. Yep. I’ll go and hide now
    OMG.
    This is like that moment in “Inglorious Basterds”.

    Turns out Charles runs a chippy in Chorley.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,145

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Why isn’t having private healthcare frowned upon the way private education is? Why should those with more money get better treatment?

    I agree with you. I turned down the private health insurance offered by work and don't send my kids to private school. Healthcare and education are basic services that should be available to everyone at a high quality level.
    Shopping and food are basic services that should be available to everyone, so abolish M & S and Waitrose on the same logic and send everyone to Tesco, Asda or Lidl
    You are so basic sometimes.
    Right down to shiny Izal toilet paper.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Twitter has fucked up Twitter. Latest tweets have been Facebooked. Terrible idea

    Not being on Twitter I genuinely have no idea what that means.
    It's the one, indispensable feature that makes up for all of Twitter's manifold flaws.

    If you are interested in a subject you type it in the search bar. Say, "Austria Covid". You tap Latest, and you will then get (or you used to get) all the most recent tweets on that subject. It is a fantastic resource. A personally curated real-time news feed of facts, opinions, videos, jokes, memes, relating to your chosen subject

    Now Twitter seems to have done some weird Facebook Insta shit on Latest Tweets, so they aren't the most recent. They appear near-random (tho I would guess they are not). There is very little chronological order. Sometimes the tweets are from hours or days ago. Or they will be from just a few people.

    Maddening. It destroys Twitter's USP.

    People are speculating why it has happened. It is allegedly a glitch in an upgrade but others have doubts. I reckon Twitter is experimenting with new feeds, or they are trying to drive users to a paid-for premium service
    If twitter blue ($2.99 a month I believe) gives me a chronological order feed I would given them the $2.99 a month.

    The fact there isn't a filter on the feed beyond my selection of people I follow is why I like twitter.
    Are you experiencing the same issue? There are loads of people on Twitter complaining about it but some say they have no problem

    My guess is that it is an attempt to drive committed users to Blue
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited November 2021
    Notable that this only has the Greens at 6%.
    I think Labour might be very slightly disappointed by this.

    If Labour hit 40% we’d start to see a narrative change reflected in the media.
  • HYUFD said:


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov

    Would see a Labour and SNP government most likely.

    The Tories would still have most seats in a hung parliament though, EC on the new boundaries gives the Tories 288 seats and Labour 275 on the new Redfield poll
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=36&LAB=38&LIB=10&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=22.3&SCOTLAB=18.3&SCOTLIB=6.3&SCOTReform=0.7&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    The damage Boris, JRM, Paterson and other Spartans have done in this idiotic act requires the red wall mps to take action and remove Boris and his cabinet as soon as possible, or the electorate will
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    eek said:

    Regarding F1

    It seems a lot of essential equipment has still not arrived in Brazil.

    Jennie Gow
    @JennieGow
    To clarify: the delayed kit is 2 plane loads of freight. All the last minute stuff, like power units, cars, pit wall kits - all the essential stuff that gets taken race to race.

    Didn’t happen when my son-in-law was at least partially responsible for despatch!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting Twitter thread from Bad Al - who we all know still has the contacts

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1458557645758115840?s=21

    In summary Boris and his team were briefed about masks, decided to ignore the hospital management and put them in the impossible situation of how do you manage a PM in clear breach of his own guidance putting staff and patients in danger?

    We have also forgotten already that just a few days earlier he was “at it” at COP, sitting next to Attenborough.

    He’s got form in not giving a shit about anyone but himself.
    As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

    'I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception. one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else.'
    Standing out as being arrogant, narcissistic and self-centred *at Eton* should have been a tell, for sure.
    Most etonians are none of those
    While outsiders sometimes get the wrong end of the stick, I'm not sure if Etonians are the best judge of how Etonians may come across.

    Most won't be, but are they still a greater proportion than the average?
    As a non-Etonian who has known many Etonians they are generally no different from the cohorts at my old school, other private schools and groups of friends from state schools.

    There are arrogant entitled ones, intellectual ones, social animals, sports jocks, outsiders and geeks.

    My impression has always been that there is just a larger ethos driven into Etonians that they can go on and do great things - they are surrounded by ghosts of famous alumni which no doubt is a driver to do exceptional things or believe they can do something special in some way.

    Different schools, especially Public Schools, have a different ethos which has a major influence on the direction of travel after school and this combines with the fact that at the age of selecting the school the child has a certain personality or intellectual bent that directs them to a school where their individual character fits the school ethos/culture better.

    So Etonians are like everyone else in terms of a spread of people and personality types in my experience.
    I went to Denstone; a fairly little-known and low-influence private school. There were a wide range of characters there (especially as there were loads of local kids on cheap fees or bursaries), and I can say the same for every other school I've met multiple people from.

    There was a joke: A Wykehamian, a Harrovian, and an Etonian are entertaining a lady. The Wykehamian pulls out the chair for the lady to sit, the Harrovian cleans the fabric for her, and the Etonian sits down, leaving the lady standing. Meanwhile, the Denstonian serves them all drinks.

    I think it displays the status well. ;)
    Believe it is Wykehamite 😈
    Not Wykehamist?
    Oops. Yep. I’ll go and hide now
    OMG.
    This is like that moment in “Inglorious Basterds”.

    Turns out Charles runs a chippy in Chorley.
    More honest than pretending it was autocorrect
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    BoZo has lost the dressing room, while the club's owners profess their continued faith in him.
  • @RedfieldWilton
    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited November 2021
    Strong polling for Labour recently. Mind you who is going to admit to voting for the Tories at the moment with all the sleaze around ?
  • Mr. eek, aye, and it's a three day greedy weekend. And there's another race next weekend, I think. Crews are going to be shattered.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248
    Twitter Blue

    Hmm


    "Twitter Blue is a completely opt-in experience, and these initial features were designed for a specific segment of engaged users. Ultimately our goal is to provide enough value through premium features that people feel that it is worth paying for."

    https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/twitter-blue#tbfeatures

    They are going to make Free Twitter progressively less appealing, in slow increments, until the "most engaged users" think Fuck it, OK, I will pay

    And fair enough. Just be honest about it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Smarkets have paid out on restrictions being reintroduced :)

    Jammy git. Their dodgy care worker rule clarification thing landed you that.
    Yep. The essence is No. Substance over form is No. You morally won the bet.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    @RedfieldWilton
    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov

    Coalition of the willing: 58%
    Axis of evil: 39%
    Don’t know: 1%
    Missing in action: 2%
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Mr. eek, aye, and it's a three day greedy weekend. And there's another race next weekend, I think. Crews are going to be shattered.

    Next weekend is worse - they will have travelled across half the world before they get to Qatar.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,248

    HYUFD said:


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov

    Would see a Labour and SNP government most likely.

    The Tories would still have most seats in a hung parliament though, EC on the new boundaries gives the Tories 288 seats and Labour 275 on the new Redfield poll
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=36&LAB=38&LIB=10&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=22.3&SCOTLAB=18.3&SCOTLIB=6.3&SCOTReform=0.7&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    The damage Boris, JRM, Paterson and other Spartans have done in this idiotic act requires the red wall mps to take action and remove Boris and his cabinet as soon as possible, or the electorate will
    A ridiculous over-reaction to a handful of polls. Boris has a majority of 80

    Patergate is a stupid, unnecessary piece of self-harm, but the Tories have 2 or 3 years to recover and it would be surreal if they never recorded poll deficits over a parliament
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Pulpstar said:

    Strong polling for Labour recently. Mind you who is going to admit to voting for the Tories at the moment with all the sleaze around ?

    I will almost certainly be voting Conservative as an Anti-SNP vactical vote.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,086
    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Buy a block of basic student like flats. Offer that to MPs to use whilst they're in London. Stick a canteen at the bottom. Job done.

    I know you’re being facetious, but I would actually do something like this

    But make them big, luxury flats owned by the state in a nice part of Westminster. So the state ultimately gets the capital value of the investment - but the MPs get free accommodation in a very agreeable part of town

    It would be a decent perk of the job. All MPs would be equal. No one would be forced to live there but if they decide not to, they won’t get any expenses for somewhere else

    Simple.
    There was a block of flats at the bottom of Waterloo bridge (Stamford street?) they looked at and passed on. Imperial turned it into student accommodation.

    Your proposal seems reasonable. I’d make them 2 bedroom flats (no need to be mean). If MPs want to bring their families to London they can rent a hotel like everyone else.
    Yes, no need to scrimp. The taxpayer will benefit as the state will get the capital gain from the property. Spacious 2 bed flats.

    Takes away all the hassle of renting in London. You can move in immediately. Day one of Parliament. Don’t like it, fine, don’t live there but you won’t get money for anywhere else

    A nice little perk of the job, but impossible to abuse the system. Sorted

    Don’t MEPs have something like this? Official apartments owned by the EU? Or maybe they just sleep in their offices. They are known for their selflessness
    No.

    They just get ~10k Euro per month in their Daily Allowance, which covers accommodation and related costs.
    Paid tax-free into their personal bank account, and from which they pay their staff and expenses.

    None of this having to actually account for the spending stuff.
    When the UK MPs expense scandal happened, the European Parliament reacted quickly, decisively and nearly unanimously.

    They made their expenses a specially protected secret, with severe penalties for leaking them.
    Yes. There was an investigation for German TV which showed dozens of MEPs turning up on Friday morning at the singing-in office (to qualify for teh daily 300 Euro or whatever allowance) with their suitcases ready to go straight to their travel arrangements.

    The singing in office sounds fun 😀
    They sing for their supper in Brussels.

    And Strasbourg.

    Except on Fridays.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    Warning

    I booked a Covid test for foreign travel with a major provider of Covid tests, which was very competitively priced. After doing so I read their terms and conditions and privacy policy and 'fair processing notice'. It transpired from this that they appear to be collecting DNA samples from the swabs for the purposes of 'research', for which they declare an intention to share with companies and government agencies. They also set out in the privacy policy that there is no unconditional opt out of this research programme. It appears that the intention is to use the data from Covid testing to create a private DNA database. Looking further in the legality of this, they appear to be relying on 'legitimate interests' under the GDPR to avoid having to explicitly seek their customers consent for doing so - it was not mentioned at any point on the website, nor in the standard terms and conditions: only in the privacy policy which of course people are very unlikely to ever read.

    I have complained to them asking for comments on the above, and they immediately refunded my test fee. Some people may not be concerned about this type of activity, but if you are, then I suggest you are extremely careful about non NHS covid testing. Unless the company in question come up with a very convincing explanation, I will be pursuing this privately with a complaint to the ICO.

  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    JBriskin3 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Strong polling for Labour recently. Mind you who is going to admit to voting for the Tories at the moment with all the sleaze around ?

    I will almost certainly be voting Conservative as an Anti-SNP vactical vote.
    That's the problem with our electoral system - it comes down to least worst party with a chance of winning the seat.
  • @RedfieldWilton
    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov

    I'd want to see Labour at least 5 points clear and see that sustained well beyond the current media shit-storm before I get too excited. It would be shocking if you weren't getting polls with Labour leads right now since the Tories seem to be doing everything in their power to alienate the electorate.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Disney shares tumbling a bit if anyone has them in their portfolio.
  • Leon said:

    HYUFD said:


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies

    First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

    Full Results (10 Nov):

    Lab 38% (+2)
    Con 36% (-1)
    Lib Dem 10% (–)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (-2)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 8 Nov

    Would see a Labour and SNP government most likely.

    The Tories would still have most seats in a hung parliament though, EC on the new boundaries gives the Tories 288 seats and Labour 275 on the new Redfield poll
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=36&LAB=38&LIB=10&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=22.3&SCOTLAB=18.3&SCOTLIB=6.3&SCOTReform=0.7&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    The damage Boris, JRM, Paterson and other Spartans have done in this idiotic act requires the red wall mps to take action and remove Boris and his cabinet as soon as possible, or the electorate will
    A ridiculous over-reaction to a handful of polls. Boris has a majority of 80

    Patergate is a stupid, unnecessary piece of self-harm, but the Tories have 2 or 3 years to recover and it would be surreal if they never recorded poll deficits over a parliament
    That is as maybe, but my reaction is not to the polls but the impression this idiotic manoeuvre has left with ordinary decent people and it is very clearly Boris's 'Ratner' moment

    He needs to be replaced
This discussion has been closed.