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The Mail continues with it attacks on Cox – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292
    Sandpit said:

    Aussies win the PowerPlay, with only the one wicket down after a shaky start.

    Cricinfo makes it 50/50 at this point.

    Edit: make that two down. Pak 66% to win now.

    it's going to be really tight. I hope
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Cookie said:

    Bugger. After 17 days of week-on-week declines, a week-on-week rise in cases today.
    And I know cases aren't important. But still. It's nice when everything is going consistently in the right direction.

    Think someone shared a chart earlier doing the rounds showing the longest sustained fall since February - should have been a sign it was ending I suppose.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    I know a lot of people who are really angry about this tory sleaze. And they're not your left-wing types.

    I was chatting to a woman from Essex yesterday (I know, but still, I was), a working class Leaver who hated Corbyn and voted enthusiastically Con at GE19, and she told me there was 'no way' she was voting Con next time because Johnson is 'just a liar'.
    Hope she’s typical.
    Well not to stereotype but she is Essex and WWC and strong Leave and hated Corbyn. I'd say if Johnson loses a chunk of that demographic the Cons are in trouble.
    Lots of polls coming up with LAB ahead over the next few months. Let's see where they are in GE 2023/2024.
    Indeed. I'm still anxious. Maybe the Tories are going behind on purpose so they can benefit from some of the famous 'swingback'. But maybe the one thing we can say with confidence is it's looking competitive now. The artificial benefit to the government of Covid is falling away, as is the memory of Brexit Getting Done. It's like the game starts here.
    Yes especially if inflation hangs around. And if the national crisp crisis isn't sorted! 😈
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,942
    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Warning

    I booked a Covid test for foreign travel with a major provider of Covid tests, which was very competitively priced. After doing so I read their terms and conditions and privacy policy and 'fair processing notice'. It transpired from this that they appear to be collecting DNA samples from the swabs for the purposes of 'research', for which they declare an intention to share with companies and government agencies. They also set out in the privacy policy that there is no unconditional opt out of this research programme. It appears that the intention is to use the data from Covid testing to create a private DNA database. Looking further in the legality of this, they appear to be relying on 'legitimate interests' under the GDPR to avoid having to explicitly seek their customers consent for doing so - it was not mentioned at any point on the website, nor in the standard terms and conditions: only in the privacy policy which of course people are very unlikely to ever read.

    I have complained to them asking for comments on the above, and they immediately refunded my test fee. Some people may not be concerned about this type of activity, but if you are, then I suggest you are extremely careful about non NHS covid testing. Unless the company in question come up with a very convincing explanation, I will be pursuing this privately with a complaint to the ICO.

    This is outrageous & I suggest you also forward your concerns to your MP & maybe to any interested journalists you can track down?

    There is no way that this is an appropriate use of the material provided to this company & they cannot possibly have acquired the appropriate permissions. If anyone within the NHS or UK research community tried to do this, the ethics ctte would string them up.
    Yes indeed. I am waiting for their reply. They may be able to convince me that it is an innocent mistake, but otherwise I will be doing exactly that. The ICO is the first stop.
    I have done a little digging & according to the MRC, the law does permit the use of tissue samples taken as part of diagnostic procedures in certain circumstances. They’re not very clear about what those circumstances are however.

    See https://www.ukri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/MRC-0208212-Human-tissue-and-biological-samples-for-use-in-research.pdf Page 7
    However, the ability to opt out of said permission at a later date is not optional, so far as I can tell. The latest guidance from the Human Tissue Authority is here: https://content.hta.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2020-11/Code A.pdf

    I do not think that a note buried in a company T+Cs counts as valid consent according to the Human Tissue Act 2004 - I would imagine getting your MP to query the HTA about the behaviour of this company would be a good way to get some action taken on this. You could complain to the HTA directly yourself, but I suspect they might take some time to respond.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Bugger, I'm in London for a city break at the end of the month and planned to use Uber Lux a lot. #CostOfLivingCrisis

    Uber is raising prices in London amid surging demand and a shortfall of drivers.

    Fares will climb by 10pc in the capital and by up to 25pc for airport journeys, the taxi company said. Journeys outside London will not be affected.

    Users have complained of long wait times and drivers cancelling journeys, with the minicab app struggling to get enough drivers on the road to meet demand.

    Even before the price rise, fares had surged due to Uber’s surge pricing algorithm, which pushes up prices to match demand for rides with supply.

    Some users have reported journeys regularly costing more than a black cab ride. The company said the change would make this less frequent.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/11/11/uber-raises-prices-amid-surging-demand-rides/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636641883

    Uber tried to charge me £20 to get from St Pancras to Camden the other day. The model is broken
    Are your legs broken as well? It's no more than 20 minutes walk from St Pancras to Camden as I remember.
    Heavy suitcases. Flying back from foreign climes
    Buy decent ones with wheels
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    42.000 cases

    195 deaths

    868 in hozzie


    All down, WoW

    But a big blob of cases there

    Cases aren't down WoW.
    The dashboard says they are? -



    -33,061(-12%)
    Not on the sing day measure, they're up by about 20%. I think we're in the end state for a while, cases up and down around 30k per day in England.
    Yes, the more important metric is hospitalisations, and they are firmly trending down, still
    Sigh - look at specimen date case data....
    Specimen date is a lead indicator for hospitalisation (albeit not the perfect correlation it used to be) which is again a lead indictor for deaths.

    As positive cases rise, so will hospitalisations and deaths other the next week and 3 weeks.
    What are we looking at Malmesbury?

    Specimen date data is a better measure than date reported data, which can be lumpy, and still looks encouraging, but the data (or at least the usable data) lags reported date data by a few days - quite conceivable specimen date data could tick up in a few days. Or it could turn out just to be a blip - as I said, reported date data is the most up to date indicator of where we are but also the lumpiest.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    kinabalu said:

    Owen on 2nd jobs. Not keen -
    https://t.co/vKuZjqPDGu?amp=1

    I'm not going to click it in case I find myself agreeing with him. Can't handle that feeling today.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Ever been to Scotland - there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    Everything you have so far posted shows that money (sometimes sent directly to the school) sometimes spent on a house to ensure you get to a particular school solves the problem for you.

    What is your opinion on Church of England / Catholic schools - or are they equally sinful.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I know it isn't featuring much on here but the Poland-Belarus refugee crisis seems to be intensifying with Belarus now threatening to shut down the transit of natural gas to Europe after the EU threatens new sanctions

    The reports are very distressing seeing all these young children up against Poland's razor wire and in winter with Christmas just 6 weeks away

    I am very concerned for these children, but the wider possibility of conflict including with the EU, US and Russia

    Furthermore, I do not see a solution other than letting the refugees into the EU

    You may as well allow Syria to load up the planes and send their "refugees" directly into Berlin then rather than on "fact-finding" trips to Belarus.

    The problem here is that you have 3 dictators trying to work out how far they can push things - and they are all working hand in hand.
    Irresistible meet immovable

    Something has to give. If the refugees start dying in numbers my guess is that the EU/Poland will buckle, even tho it sets a terrible example as you say
    I would doubt Poland buckling unless the other EU countries take them
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    42.000 cases

    195 deaths

    868 in hozzie


    All down, WoW

    But a big blob of cases there

    Cases aren't down WoW.
    The dashboard says they are? -



    -33,061(-12%)
    Not on the sing day measure, they're up by about 20%. I think we're in the end state for a while, cases up and down around 30k per day in England.
    Yes, the more important metric is hospitalisations, and they are firmly trending down, still
    Sigh - look at specimen date case data....
    Specimen date is a lead indicator for hospitalisation (albeit not the perfect correlation it used to be) which is again a lead indictor for deaths.

    As positive cases rise, so will hospitalisations and deaths other the next week and 3 weeks.
    What are we looking at Malmesbury?

    Specimen date data is a better measure than date reported data, which can be lumpy, and still looks encouraging, but the data (or at least the usable data) lags reported date data by a few days - quite conceivable specimen date data could tick up in a few days. Or it could turn out just to be a blip - as I said, reported date data is the most up to date indicator of where we are but also the lumpiest.
    Specimen date is not showing a rise as yet. Reporting dates for cases are rather variable - sometimes the system catches up quickly, sometimes it takes several days. Which is why they are so useless.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Bring back the Assisted Places scheme then, and use that to expand the number of private schools.
    Pure vindictiveness from Blair and why I could never be a leftie or vote Labour.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,903
    Comedy bowling from Hafeez. Six, a no-ball, and two more from the free hit.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,447

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge andinflue engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Can you explain?

    Surely the percentage of children entering private schools also influences the socioeconomic demographics of the schools they would have enrolled in.

    Losing ~7% of the wealthiest children should also " negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations" no?
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,942
    edited November 2021

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    In addition to this, it’s amazing how easy it is to flatter your exam results when you can “manage out” kids who don’t perform. Both Grammar & private schools are very often guilty of this kind of league table management, to the great detriment of the education of the kids who are on the sharp end of this process.

    As a parent, you should always look at raw results with a skeptical eye.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,289
    It's literally 48 hours since people on here were posting with great confidence that cases were "spiking downwards".

    Now today we have 42k vs 37k last Thursday.

    First hint of turn was yesterday - 39k vs 41k previous Wednesday but way up on the day before (33k).

    I would have thought people would have learnt by now - this virus has gone up, down, up, down, up, down on numerous occasions - the one thing we know for certain is that whatever the current trends is it won't continue smoothly into the future.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292
    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801
    edited November 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    When will Britain get its first comprehensive educated PM? I reckon not until the 2030s.

    John Major says hello.
    Ramsay Macdonald looong before him. So long before, they didnt' call them comprehensives.
    Did Scotland have a selective education system back then? I'm not sure he counts if it did, because the argument is that selection holds back those that didn't get in.

    Depended what was on offer locally, but as good as - quite a few High Schools - effectively comprehensives.

    Unless one had the money and wanted a private or Anglo-Scottish style Public School such as Fettes. Not an option for Ramsay Mac IIRC a farm labourer's child.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Alistair said:
    mistrial
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge andinflue engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Can you explain?

    Surely the percentage of children entering private schools also influences the socioeconomic demographics of the schools they would have enrolled in.

    Losing ~7% of the wealthiest children should also " negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations" no?
    Losing the ~7% of pushiest parents allows schools to coast in ways that would otherwise be impossible. There are a number of schools in London that went rapidly from basket cases to excellent back in the early 00s when pushy parents with their children they took the time to help sort the issues out.
  • Options

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge andinflue engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Can you explain?

    Surely the percentage of children entering private schools also influences the socioeconomic demographics of the schools they would have enrolled in.

    Losing ~7% of the wealthiest children should also " negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations" no?
    I'll do it in a thread in the next few weeks, will include my plan to abolish the DfE and give the money to parents directly via vouchers, the poorest parents get more vouchers.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    IT'S TOO EARLY TO SAY.

    CASES BY DATE REPORTED IS AN EARLY INDICATOR BUT NOT AN INFALLIBLE ONE.

    IN A FEW DAYS, IT MIGHT EMERGE THAT THIS WAS WHEN THE TREND TURNED. BUT WE DON'T YET KNOW FOR SURE.

    (Picturing Leon on a neigbouring mountaintop here, for some reason).
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    42.000 cases

    195 deaths

    868 in hozzie


    All down, WoW

    But a big blob of cases there

    Cases aren't down WoW.
    The dashboard says they are? -



    -33,061(-12%)
    That's the seven day figure.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984
    Phil said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    In addition to this, it’s amazing how easy it is to flatter your exam results when you can “manage out” kids who don’t perform. Both Grammar & private schools are very often guilty of this kind of league table management, to the great detriment of the education of the kids who are on the sharp end of this process.

    As a parent, you should always look at raw results with a skeptical eye.
    Not mentioning any schools (see my previous post on this) but some Comprehensive schools pull very similar tricks.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    And private schools don't?

    If you support private school choice, as I do, then you also should support grammar school choice in my view. If you want to allow selection by parental income you must also allow selection by academic ability.

    Plus Germany still has selective schools, Gymnasiums and is a generally meritocratic, prosperous economy with a bigger manufacturing base than we have
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    JBriskin3 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Bugger, I'm in London for a city break at the end of the month and planned to use Uber Lux a lot. #CostOfLivingCrisis

    Uber is raising prices in London amid surging demand and a shortfall of drivers.

    Fares will climb by 10pc in the capital and by up to 25pc for airport journeys, the taxi company said. Journeys outside London will not be affected.

    Users have complained of long wait times and drivers cancelling journeys, with the minicab app struggling to get enough drivers on the road to meet demand.

    Even before the price rise, fares had surged due to Uber’s surge pricing algorithm, which pushes up prices to match demand for rides with supply.

    Some users have reported journeys regularly costing more than a black cab ride. The company said the change would make this less frequent.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2021/11/11/uber-raises-prices-amid-surging-demand-rides/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636641883

    Uber tried to charge me £20 to get from St Pancras to Camden the other day. The model is broken
    The model isn't broken - the issue is they no longer have an endless supply of workers and it's likely that Amazon parcel delivery pays better.
    But that's part of the model. It assumed an infinite supply of fairly cheap labour
    Nope, Uber's model is based on no labour - the cars were supposed to be self driving by about now...
    That's not true.

    Uber is just a radio cab service, with the radios replaced by a mobile app. They absolutely don't want a self driving world because then they have to supply the vehicles.
    Except that they will tell you they’re defininitely not a cab service.

    Oh, and how does a cab service, or a not-a-cab-service, continue to lose $2bn a quarter?
    TSLA, NFTs, Shiba-inu, Uber it's all a giant game of pass the inflating bomb.
    Tend to agree - I have CNBC on as a screensaver and all the charts just go up up up
    what goes up must come down
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    IT'S TOO EARLY TO SAY.

    CASES BY DATE REPORTED IS AN EARLY INDICATOR BUT NOT AN INFALLIBLE ONE.

    IN A FEW DAYS, IT MIGHT EMERGE THAT THIS WAS WHEN THE TREND TURNED. BUT WE DON'T YET KNOW FOR SURE.
    THANKS

    I'M IN A PUB SHELTERING FROM MY CLEANER AND SIMULTANEOUSLY WATCHING THE CRICKET, POSTING ON PB, AND SENDING EMAILS TO CORNWALL
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I know it isn't featuring much on here but the Poland-Belarus refugee crisis seems to be intensifying with Belarus now threatening to shut down the transit of natural gas to Europe after the EU threatens new sanctions

    The reports are very distressing seeing all these young children up against Poland's razor wire and in winter with Christmas just 6 weeks away

    I am very concerned for these children, but the wider possibility of conflict including with the EU, US and Russia

    Furthermore, I do not see a solution other than letting the refugees into the EU

    You may as well allow Syria to load up the planes and send their "refugees" directly into Berlin then rather than on "fact-finding" trips to Belarus.

    The problem here is that you have 3 dictators trying to work out how far they can push things - and they are all working hand in hand.
    Irresistible meet immovable

    Something has to give. If the refugees start dying in numbers my guess is that the EU/Poland will buckle, even tho it sets a terrible example as you say
    I would doubt Poland buckling unless the other EU countries take them
    I can't see Poland doing anything unless Germany has coaches on the border and then will let a coachload a time cross the border.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    eek said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Ever been to Scotland - there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    Everything you have so far posted shows that money (sometimes sent directly to the school) sometimes spent on a house to ensure you get to a particular school solves the problem for you.

    What is your opinion on Church of England / Catholic schools - or are they equally sinful.
    Faith schools are generally the best comprehensive schools in terms of academic results (partly because they also select in part on church attendance)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    Stocky said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Warning

    I booked a Covid test for foreign travel with a major provider of Covid tests, which was very competitively priced. After doing so I read their terms and conditions and privacy policy and 'fair processing notice'. It transpired from this that they appear to be collecting DNA samples from the swabs for the purposes of 'research', for which they declare an intention to share with companies and government agencies. They also set out in the privacy policy that there is no unconditional opt out of this research programme. It appears that the intention is to use the data from Covid testing to create a private DNA database. Looking further in the legality of this, they appear to be relying on 'legitimate interests' under the GDPR to avoid having to explicitly seek their customers consent for doing so - it was not mentioned at any point on the website, nor in the standard terms and conditions: only in the privacy policy which of course people are very unlikely to ever read.

    I have complained to them asking for comments on the above, and they immediately refunded my test fee. Some people may not be concerned about this type of activity, but if you are, then I suggest you are extremely careful about non NHS covid testing. Unless the company in question come up with a very convincing explanation, I will be pursuing this privately with a complaint to the ICO.

    This is outrageous & I suggest you also forward your concerns to your MP & maybe to any interested journalists you can track down?

    There is no way that this is an appropriate use of the material provided to this company & they cannot possibly have acquired the appropriate permissions. If anyone within the NHS or UK research community tried to do this, the ethics ctte would string them up.
    Yes indeed. I am waiting for their reply. They may be able to convince me that it is an innocent mistake, but otherwise I will be doing exactly that. The ICO is the first stop.
    I have done a little digging & according to the MRC, the law does permit the use of tissue samples taken as part of diagnostic procedures in certain circumstances. They’re not very clear about what those circumstances are however.

    See https://www.ukri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/MRC-0208212-Human-tissue-and-biological-samples-for-use-in-research.pdf Page 7
    Which testing company is it? Randox?
    Is that the Tory benevolent association one
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,903
    Three down, this is a finely balanced match.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited November 2021
    Not sure Root could find a response that would satisfy here - either he say he saw racism, and as he must not have said or done something in response admits to being part of the problem, or he says he didn't see any but accepts it happened, but that still leads to accusation he doesn't 'accept' it and is part of the problem.

    Azeem Rafiq says he is "incredibly hurt" that England captain Joe Root said he could not recall ever witnessing racism at Yorkshire.

    England Test captain Root says the racism scandal at his county side has "fractured our game and torn lives apart".

    Root called for "change and actions".

    But when asked if he had seen any racism at Yorkshire, Root said: "Not that I can recall, no... but it's clear things have happened at the club."

    Rafiq tweeted in response to Root's comments: "Disappointed is not even the feeling. Incredibly hurt. But uncomfortable truths are hard to accept it seems.
    "

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59252631
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    MikeL said:

    It's literally 48 hours since people on here were posting with great confidence that cases were "spiking downwards".

    Now today we have 42k vs 37k last Thursday.

    First hint of turn was yesterday - 39k vs 41k previous Wednesday but way up on the day before (33k).

    I would have thought people would have learnt by now - this virus has gone up, down, up, down, up, down on numerous occasions - the one thing we know for certain is that whatever the current trends is it won't continue smoothly into the future.

    Anyone who makes judgements from single days of reporting date case numbers.... Has no judgement.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292
    edited November 2021
    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    I know it isn't featuring much on here but the Poland-Belarus refugee crisis seems to be intensifying with Belarus now threatening to shut down the transit of natural gas to Europe after the EU threatens new sanctions

    The reports are very distressing seeing all these young children up against Poland's razor wire and in winter with Christmas just 6 weeks away

    I am very concerned for these children, but the wider possibility of conflict including with the EU, US and Russia

    Furthermore, I do not see a solution other than letting the refugees into the EU

    You may as well allow Syria to load up the planes and send their "refugees" directly into Berlin then rather than on "fact-finding" trips to Belarus.

    The problem here is that you have 3 dictators trying to work out how far they can push things - and they are all working hand in hand.
    Irresistible meet immovable

    Something has to give. If the refugees start dying in numbers my guess is that the EU/Poland will buckle, even tho it sets a terrible example as you say
    I would doubt Poland buckling unless the other EU countries take them
    I can't see Poland doing anything unless Germany has coaches on the border and then will let a coachload a time cross the border.
    Pakistan mild favourites now.

    I don't know why I posted that as a reply to a comment about Belarus
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,731
    malcolmg said:

    Stocky said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Warning

    I booked a Covid test for foreign travel with a major provider of Covid tests, which was very competitively priced. After doing so I read their terms and conditions and privacy policy and 'fair processing notice'. It transpired from this that they appear to be collecting DNA samples from the swabs for the purposes of 'research', for which they declare an intention to share with companies and government agencies. They also set out in the privacy policy that there is no unconditional opt out of this research programme. It appears that the intention is to use the data from Covid testing to create a private DNA database. Looking further in the legality of this, they appear to be relying on 'legitimate interests' under the GDPR to avoid having to explicitly seek their customers consent for doing so - it was not mentioned at any point on the website, nor in the standard terms and conditions: only in the privacy policy which of course people are very unlikely to ever read.

    I have complained to them asking for comments on the above, and they immediately refunded my test fee. Some people may not be concerned about this type of activity, but if you are, then I suggest you are extremely careful about non NHS covid testing. Unless the company in question come up with a very convincing explanation, I will be pursuing this privately with a complaint to the ICO.

    This is outrageous & I suggest you also forward your concerns to your MP & maybe to any interested journalists you can track down?

    There is no way that this is an appropriate use of the material provided to this company & they cannot possibly have acquired the appropriate permissions. If anyone within the NHS or UK research community tried to do this, the ethics ctte would string them up.
    Yes indeed. I am waiting for their reply. They may be able to convince me that it is an innocent mistake, but otherwise I will be doing exactly that. The ICO is the first stop.
    I have done a little digging & according to the MRC, the law does permit the use of tissue samples taken as part of diagnostic procedures in certain circumstances. They’re not very clear about what those circumstances are however.

    See https://www.ukri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/MRC-0208212-Human-tissue-and-biological-samples-for-use-in-research.pdf Page 7
    Which testing company is it? Randox?
    Is that the Tory benevolent association one
    Yes - Paterson. And more to the point the company I've used multiple times.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    I know a lot of people who are really angry about this tory sleaze. And they're not your left-wing types.

    I was chatting to a woman from Essex yesterday (I know, but still, I was), a working class Leaver who hated Corbyn and voted enthusiastically Con at GE19, and she told me there was 'no way' she was voting Con next time because Johnson is 'just a liar'.
    Doesn't matter in Essex, not a single Conservative seat in Essex is now in the top 100 Labour targets or top 50 LD target seats.

    Essex is now a safe Tory county compared to the Blair years when it was full of Tory marginals New Labour won in 1997 (the same largely goes for East Kent)
    Not even Colchester? Which is a seat Labour would need to win for a majority or perhaps to merely hit 300 seats.

    Thurrock is also a weird one, Labour has been doing OK in local elections but Tories swallowed the 2017 UKIP vote whole in 2019.
    Colchester is 104th on Labour's target list, Thurrock was very strong Leave so not keen on Starmer or Labour generally, despite the fact it was Labour from 1992-2010
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    And private schools don't?

    If you support private school choice, as I do, then you also should support grammar school choice in my view. If you want to allow selection by parental income you must also allow selection by academic ability.

    Plus Germany still has selective schools, Gymnasiums and is a generally meritocratic, prosperous economy with a bigger manufacturing base than we have
    The difference in Germany is that there is free movement between the academic and less academic options - and those less academic options aren't viewed within Germany society as second best.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    edited November 2021
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    IT'S TOO EARLY TO SAY.

    CASES BY DATE REPORTED IS AN EARLY INDICATOR BUT NOT AN INFALLIBLE ONE.

    IN A FEW DAYS, IT MIGHT EMERGE THAT THIS WAS WHEN THE TREND TURNED. BUT WE DON'T YET KNOW FOR SURE.

    (Picturing Leon on a neigbouring mountaintop here, for some reason).

    STOP SHOUTING

  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,731
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    Hospitalisations yes.

    Cases (who cares) - they were coming down nicely but the last two days' figures have been high.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,447

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge andinflue engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Can you explain?

    Surely the percentage of children entering private schools also influences the socioeconomic demographics of the schools they would have enrolled in.

    Losing ~7% of the wealthiest children should also " negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations" no?
    I'll do it in a thread in the next few weeks, will include my plan to abolish the DfE and give the money to parents directly via vouchers, the poorest parents get more vouchers.
    Still influencing the demographics. Assuming you're allowing the schools charge beyond the means of the poorest.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984
    edited November 2021

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge andinflue engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Can you explain?

    Surely the percentage of children entering private schools also influences the socioeconomic demographics of the schools they would have enrolled in.

    Losing ~7% of the wealthiest children should also " negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations" no?
    I'll do it in a thread in the next few weeks, will include my plan to abolish the DfE and give the money to parents directly via vouchers, the poorest parents get more vouchers.
    The poorest parents already result in Schools getting significantly extra money - you also get more depending on ethnic group.

    I always tried to (jokingly) get parents to claim to be travellers of Irish Descent as that was a reasonable lottery win size amount for a school.
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,450

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    I know a lot of people who are really angry about this tory sleaze. And they're not your left-wing types.

    I was chatting to a woman from Essex yesterday (I know, but still, I was), a working class Leaver who hated Corbyn and voted enthusiastically Con at GE19, and she told me there was 'no way' she was voting Con next time because Johnson is 'just a liar'.
    Doesn't matter in Essex, not a single Conservative seat in Essex is now in the top 100 Labour targets or top 50 LD target seats.

    Essex is now a safe Tory county compared to the Blair years when it was full of Tory marginals New Labour won in 1997 (the same largely goes for East Kent)
    Pride comes before a fall
    No, just facts.

    Labour would need a huge swing of 8.8% to win its first seat in Essex, Colchester and the LDs would need an even bigger swing of 15% to win their first seat in Essex, Chelmsford
    Today's facts are not tomorrow's

    Boris has damaged trust in an idiotic manoeuvre and cannot even say he is sorry but disappears to Glasgow

    Meanwhile Rishi gives an assured interview and agrees HMG got it wrong
    Didn't see the Rishi interview but he is, assuredly, the ideal antidote for a country tired by Boris and his antics, but distrustful of Labour. My impression is that the polls are being driven by Tory voters withdrawing their support rather than swinging enthusiastically into the Labour (or LibDem) columns. Rishi could well win them back with his modesty/sincerity/competency shtick.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    I know a lot of people who are really angry about this tory sleaze. And they're not your left-wing types.

    I was chatting to a woman from Essex yesterday (I know, but still, I was), a working class Leaver who hated Corbyn and voted enthusiastically Con at GE19, and she told me there was 'no way' she was voting Con next time because Johnson is 'just a liar'.
    Doesn't matter in Essex, not a single Conservative seat in Essex is now in the top 100 Labour targets or top 50 LD target seats.

    Essex is now a safe Tory county compared to the Blair years when it was full of Tory marginals New Labour won in 1997 (the same largely goes for East Kent)
    Pride comes before a fall
    No, just facts.

    Labour would need a huge swing of 8.8% to win its first seat in Essex, Colchester and the LDs would need an even bigger swing of 15% to win their first seat in Essex, Chelmsford
    Today's facts are not tomorrow's

    Boris has damaged trust in an idiotic manoeuvre and cannot even say he is sorry but disappears to Glasgow

    Meanwhile Rishi gives an assured interview and agrees HMG got it wrong
    Didn't see the Rishi interview but he is, assuredly, the ideal antidote for a country tired by Boris and his antics, but distrustful of Labour. My impression is that the polls are being driven by Tory voters withdrawing their support rather than swinging enthusiastically into the Labour (or LibDem) columns. Rishi could well win them back with his modesty/sincerity/competency shtick.
    Given the choice of Starmer and Rishi for PM, I suspect a lot of people will plump for Rishi just to remove the risk of a Labour SNP coalition.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,998
    Yorkshire County Cricket Club says its Chief Executive Officer Mark Arthur has resigned with immediate effect

    For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com
  • Options
    Farooq said:

    Alistair said:
    mistrial
    No one in this case is coming out well. It was interesting that so many US lawyers on all sides were criticising the prosecution yesterday for attacking Rittenhouse's use of the right to silence. Apparently in the US this is absolutely sacrosanct and there was a lot of anger about him trying to convince the jury that its use was in some way an admission of guilt.

    Mind you the judge really is a piece of work.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,193
    Surely we must help these desperate people ?

    https://twitter.com/scmpnews/status/1458539970226839554?s=21
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,903
    Scott_xP said:

    Yorkshire County Cricket Club says its Chief Executive Officer Mark Arthur has resigned with immediate effect

    For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com

    Another brick knocked out of the wall.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    eek said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Ever been to Scotland - there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    Everything you have so far posted shows that money (sometimes sent directly to the school) sometimes spent on a house to ensure you get to a particular school solves the problem for you.

    What is your opinion on Church of England / Catholic schools - or are they equally sinful.
    That is complete and utter bollox of the first order. Obviously you have never been to Scotland spouting that utter claptrap. Halfwitted nutter.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    It is impossible to tell from a single day's data.
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    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    Hospitalisations yes.

    Cases (who cares) - they were coming down nicely but the last two days' figures have been high.
    Logical head on. The increase has been coming based on the last few days data. Highly likely because of kids going back after half term. I am still surprised there are any kids who haven't yet had it (knowingly or otherwise)!
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    eekeek Posts: 24,984

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge andinflue engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Can you explain?

    Surely the percentage of children entering private schools also influences the socioeconomic demographics of the schools they would have enrolled in.

    Losing ~7% of the wealthiest children should also " negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations" no?
    I'll do it in a thread in the next few weeks, will include my plan to abolish the DfE and give the money to parents directly via vouchers, the poorest parents get more vouchers.
    Still influencing the demographics. Assuming you're allowing the schools charge beyond the means of the poorest.
    The thing is that throughout the world people have spent the last 100 years trying to get economic advantages out of school selection - and absolutely nothing works because the brighter parents will read the rule book and find the tricks that get them what they want.

    The only solution that vaguely works is Private Education because at least it just removes those who agree with it and can afford it from the equation.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997

    MikeL said:

    It's literally 48 hours since people on here were posting with great confidence that cases were "spiking downwards".

    Now today we have 42k vs 37k last Thursday.

    First hint of turn was yesterday - 39k vs 41k previous Wednesday but way up on the day before (33k).

    I would have thought people would have learnt by now - this virus has gone up, down, up, down, up, down on numerous occasions - the one thing we know for certain is that whatever the current trends is it won't continue smoothly into the future.

    Anyone who makes judgements from single days of reporting date case numbers.... Has no judgement.
    It was the site panicker after all who was pontificating
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    IT'S TOO EARLY TO SAY.

    CASES BY DATE REPORTED IS AN EARLY INDICATOR BUT NOT AN INFALLIBLE ONE.

    IN A FEW DAYS, IT MIGHT EMERGE THAT THIS WAS WHEN THE TREND TURNED. BUT WE DON'T YET KNOW FOR SURE.

    (Picturing Leon on a neigbouring mountaintop here, for some reason).

    STOP SHOUTING

    I'M NOT SHOUTING.

    OK, I'M SHOUTING.

    I'M SHOUTING, I'M SHOUTING, I'M SHOUTING.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBSsc2qHP_g
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    Cases by specimen date

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    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,450
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    I know a lot of people who are really angry about this tory sleaze. And they're not your left-wing types.

    I was chatting to a woman from Essex yesterday (I know, but still, I was), a working class Leaver who hated Corbyn and voted enthusiastically Con at GE19, and she told me there was 'no way' she was voting Con next time because Johnson is 'just a liar'.
    Doesn't matter in Essex, not a single Conservative seat in Essex is now in the top 100 Labour targets or top 50 LD target seats.

    Essex is now a safe Tory county compared to the Blair years when it was full of Tory marginals New Labour won in 1997 (the same largely goes for East Kent)
    Pride comes before a fall
    No, just facts.

    Labour would need a huge swing of 8.8% to win its first seat in Essex, Colchester and the LDs would need an even bigger swing of 15% to win their first seat in Essex, Chelmsford
    Today's facts are not tomorrow's

    Boris has damaged trust in an idiotic manoeuvre and cannot even say he is sorry but disappears to Glasgow

    Meanwhile Rishi gives an assured interview and agrees HMG got it wrong
    Didn't see the Rishi interview but he is, assuredly, the ideal antidote for a country tired by Boris and his antics, but distrustful of Labour. My impression is that the polls are being driven by Tory voters withdrawing their support rather than swinging enthusiastically into the Labour (or LibDem) columns. Rishi could well win them back with his modesty/sincerity/competency shtick.
    Given the choice of Starmer and Rishi for PM, I suspect a lot of people will plump for Rishi just to remove the risk of a Labour SNP coalition.
    Extraordinary how Scotland has gone from being such an asset for Labour, to such a liability, even putting English voters off from voting for them.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    Cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

    image
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Stocky said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Phil said:

    darkage said:

    Warning

    I booked a Covid test for foreign travel with a major provider of Covid tests, which was very competitively priced. After doing so I read their terms and conditions and privacy policy and 'fair processing notice'. It transpired from this that they appear to be collecting DNA samples from the swabs for the purposes of 'research', for which they declare an intention to share with companies and government agencies. They also set out in the privacy policy that there is no unconditional opt out of this research programme. It appears that the intention is to use the data from Covid testing to create a private DNA database. Looking further in the legality of this, they appear to be relying on 'legitimate interests' under the GDPR to avoid having to explicitly seek their customers consent for doing so - it was not mentioned at any point on the website, nor in the standard terms and conditions: only in the privacy policy which of course people are very unlikely to ever read.

    I have complained to them asking for comments on the above, and they immediately refunded my test fee. Some people may not be concerned about this type of activity, but if you are, then I suggest you are extremely careful about non NHS covid testing. Unless the company in question come up with a very convincing explanation, I will be pursuing this privately with a complaint to the ICO.

    This is outrageous & I suggest you also forward your concerns to your MP & maybe to any interested journalists you can track down?

    There is no way that this is an appropriate use of the material provided to this company & they cannot possibly have acquired the appropriate permissions. If anyone within the NHS or UK research community tried to do this, the ethics ctte would string them up.
    Yes indeed. I am waiting for their reply. They may be able to convince me that it is an innocent mistake, but otherwise I will be doing exactly that. The ICO is the first stop.
    I have done a little digging & according to the MRC, the law does permit the use of tissue samples taken as part of diagnostic procedures in certain circumstances. They’re not very clear about what those circumstances are however.

    See https://www.ukri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/MRC-0208212-Human-tissue-and-biological-samples-for-use-in-research.pdf Page 7
    Which testing company is it? Randox?
    Is that the Tory benevolent association one
    Yes - Paterson. And more to the point the company I've used multiple times.
    Thanks Stocky , I thought it would be a certainty
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    UK Local R

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,903
    Warner won’t be too happy to be out for 49.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,731
    On the subject of travel, today France has announced that from 15 December over 65s being fully vaccinated is no longer sufficient to qualify for their "pass sanitaire". Evidence of booster will also be required.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    UK case summary

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    eekeek Posts: 24,984
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Ever been to Scotland - there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    Everything you have so far posted shows that money (sometimes sent directly to the school) sometimes spent on a house to ensure you get to a particular school solves the problem for you.

    What is your opinion on Church of England / Catholic schools - or are they equally sinful.
    That is complete and utter bollox of the first order. Obviously you have never been to Scotland spouting that utter claptrap. Halfwitted nutter.
    What is wrong with that first sentence.

    there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    It's a simple fact because if it wasn't (perceived to be) true private education wouldn't exist in Scotland.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    And private schools don't?

    If you support private school choice, as I do, then you also should support grammar school choice in my view. If you want to allow selection by parental income you must also allow selection by academic ability.

    Plus Germany still has selective schools, Gymnasiums and is a generally meritocratic, prosperous economy with a bigger manufacturing base than we have
    Don't start me on Grammar Schools HY. I went to one. An absolutely loathsome place, and besides which selection for life at aged 11 is immoral.
    What rubbish.

    Most grammars have intakes at 13 and 16 and we all are effectively selected via GCSEs, A Levels, BTECs, university entrance anyway
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044

    One for the railway buffs: the Exeter to Okehamptin railway is reopening fully to passengers on November 20th!

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021/nov/08/dartmoor-train-line-reopen-50-years-after-axed-walkers-cyclists-wild-campers

    Gives Sunil another line to do... ;)

    Did it on Sunday 4th August 2019, in fact :)
    Yeah, but that was a preserved operation. Surely you need to do it again now it's part of the official network. Do you need much of an excuse? ;)

    (It's actually going to be brilliant for walkers and riders. Really convenient for some brilliant terrain; sadly, not an area I've done yet.)
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    UK hospitals

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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292
    Sandpit said:

    Warner won’t be too happy to be out for 49.

    Pakistan modest favourites now
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    UK deaths

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    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    "OH, GOD! OH, GOD! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE?"
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,731
    AlistairM said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    Hospitalisations yes.

    Cases (who cares) - they were coming down nicely but the last two days' figures have been high.
    Logical head on. The increase has been coming based on the last few days data. Highly likely because of kids going back after half term. I am still surprised there are any kids who haven't yet had it (knowingly or otherwise)!
    This is what I originally predicted would happen, but others disagreed saying that the return to school will not increase new infections. Up to two days ago I concluded that I was wrong but now I'm not so sure ...
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,903
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Warner won’t be too happy to be out for 49.

    Pakistan modest favourites now
    The replay suggests he didn’t hit it, but the silly convict walked.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Warner won’t be too happy to be out for 49.

    So funny.

    He didn't hit it and didn't review.
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    Chief Executive of YCCC resigns.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Warner won’t be too happy to be out for 49.

    Pakistan modest favourites now
    The replay suggests he didn’t hit it, but the silly convict walked.
    Could be the pivotal moment of the match. Remarkable
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444
    Age related data

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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Alistair said:
    mistrial
    No one in this case is coming out well. It was interesting that so many US lawyers on all sides were criticising the prosecution yesterday for attacking Rittenhouse's use of the right to silence. Apparently in the US this is absolutely sacrosanct and there was a lot of anger about him trying to convince the jury that its use was in some way an admission of guilt.

    Mind you the judge really is a piece of work.
    Imagine being a juror in this shitshow. All these shenanigans and at the end of it all you're going to have to make a verdict that will make half the country angry and baffled. America is fucked.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,984

    Chief Executive of YCCC resigns.

    Leaving it so late that permanent damage has been done.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292
    Halfway through your innings, your best batsman is given out, dubiously. Why on earth would you NOT review?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    Clément Beaune has been doing his anti-Brexit routine again. Apparently anyone criticising the EU just needs to look at the failure of the UK with shortages, and he says that French and British fishermen used to work happily together but now they can't because of Brexit...

    https://twitter.com/CBeaune/status/1458803195636076553
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    Chief Executive of YCCC resigns.

    Racist Yorkshiremen, tsk.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,903
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Alistair said:
    mistrial
    No one in this case is coming out well. It was interesting that so many US lawyers on all sides were criticising the prosecution yesterday for attacking Rittenhouse's use of the right to silence. Apparently in the US this is absolutely sacrosanct and there was a lot of anger about him trying to convince the jury that its use was in some way an admission of guilt.

    Mind you the judge really is a piece of work.
    Imagine being a juror in this shitshow. All these shenanigans and at the end of it all you're going to have to make a verdict that will make half the country angry and baffled. America is fucked.
    It’s totally screwed up, on a number of different levels, yet appears to be a perfect representation of just where American society is right now…
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    eek said:

    Chief Executive of YCCC resigns.

    Leaving it so late that permanent damage has been done.
    Just like a low-scoring Boycott innings.
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,447
    eek said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge andinflue engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Can you explain?

    Surely the percentage of children entering private schools also influences the socioeconomic demographics of the schools they would have enrolled in.

    Losing ~7% of the wealthiest children should also " negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations" no?
    I'll do it in a thread in the next few weeks, will include my plan to abolish the DfE and give the money to parents directly via vouchers, the poorest parents get more vouchers.
    Still influencing the demographics. Assuming you're allowing the schools charge beyond the means of the poorest.
    The thing is that throughout the world people have spent the last 100 years trying to get economic advantages out of school selection - and absolutely nothing works because the brighter parents will read the rule book and find the tricks that get them what they want.

    The only solution that vaguely works is Private Education because at least it just removes those who agree with it and can afford it from the equation.
    I understand, there will never be a perfect system.

    For me equality of opportunity should be all. But in our bifurcated system it seems a minority get the superior opportunities and therefore the superior outcomes.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    Leon said:

    Halfway through your innings, your best batsman is given out, dubiously. Why on earth would you NOT review?

    You must be enjoying the extremely unsubtle camera work focussing repeatedly on young ladies in the crowd?

    Great game of cricket. Pakistan are formidable but this isn't over yet.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge andinflue engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Can you explain?

    Surely the percentage of children entering private schools also influences the socioeconomic demographics of the schools they would have enrolled in.

    Losing ~7% of the wealthiest children should also " negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations" no?
    Yep. And tbh this Grammars v Privates is Alien v Predator for me. It's arguing which of 2 types of elitism is least damaging.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Ever been to Scotland - there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    Everything you have so far posted shows that money (sometimes sent directly to the school) sometimes spent on a house to ensure you get to a particular school solves the problem for you.

    What is your opinion on Church of England / Catholic schools - or are they equally sinful.
    That is complete and utter bollox of the first order. Obviously you have never been to Scotland spouting that utter claptrap. Halfwitted nutter.
    What is wrong with that first sentence.

    there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    It's a simple fact because if it wasn't (perceived to be) true private education wouldn't exist in Scotland.
    That is not the reason why people use private schools. Many of the state schools get far better results. It varies from perception to oneupmanship and them wanting to pretend they are better than the plebs. Some may believe it but given they will nearly all be loaded they will be living in catchment areas that have the best state schools available. I doubt you have any knowledge of Scottish schools and at best formed your opinion from the Daily Heil.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    I know a lot of people who are really angry about this tory sleaze. And they're not your left-wing types.

    I was chatting to a woman from Essex yesterday (I know, but still, I was), a working class Leaver who hated Corbyn and voted enthusiastically Con at GE19, and she told me there was 'no way' she was voting Con next time because Johnson is 'just a liar'.
    Doesn't matter in Essex, not a single Conservative seat in Essex is now in the top 100 Labour targets or top 50 LD target seats.

    Essex is now a safe Tory county compared to the Blair years when it was full of Tory marginals New Labour won in 1997 (the same largely goes for East Kent)
    Pride comes before a fall
    No, just facts.

    Labour would need a huge swing of 8.8% to win its first seat in Essex, Colchester and the LDs would need an even bigger swing of 15% to win their first seat in Essex, Chelmsford
    Today's facts are not tomorrow's

    Boris has damaged trust in an idiotic manoeuvre and cannot even say he is sorry but disappears to Glasgow

    Meanwhile Rishi gives an assured interview and agrees HMG got it wrong
    Didn't see the Rishi interview but he is, assuredly, the ideal antidote for a country tired by Boris and his antics, but distrustful of Labour. My impression is that the polls are being driven by Tory voters withdrawing their support rather than swinging enthusiastically into the Labour (or LibDem) columns. Rishi could well win them back with his modesty/sincerity/competency shtick.
    You sum up my position very well
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    And private schools don't?

    If you support private school choice, as I do, then you also should support grammar school choice in my view. If you want to allow selection by parental income you must also allow selection by academic ability.

    Plus Germany still has selective schools, Gymnasiums and is a generally meritocratic, prosperous economy with a bigger manufacturing base than we have
    Don't start me on Grammar Schools HY. I went to one. An absolutely loathsome place, and besides which selection for life at aged 11 is immoral.
    What rubbish.

    Most grammars have intakes at 13 and 16 and we all are effectively selected via GCSEs, A Levels, BTECs, university entrance anyway
    Intake at 13 is rare though and only really exists for those who are also taking the Common Entrance Exam - the number of places will usually be limited to those pupils that left Years 7 and 8.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,444

    Leon said:

    ARE CASES COMING DOWN OR NOT

    AND WHAT ABOUT HOSPITALISATIONS

    THANKS

    "OH, GOD! OH, GOD! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE?"
    Wha a fail of a comment

    image

    Obviously
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited November 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Warner won’t be too happy to be out for 49.

    So funny.

    He didn't hit it and didn't review.
    Being a known cheat he might be overcompensating about not wishing to be a bad sport.

    Though I take issue with some of the comments on the BBC page - I cannot see how obvious it was he missed it as I'm not seeing the footage, but the 'he must know' stuff is provably nonsense - people confidently review that they have NOT hit something all the time, and can be stunned to discover there was a very slight nick, so I see no reason it could not be the case that someone thinks they might have but did not.

    Why you wouldn't at least attempt a review when at best it was a slight nick I don't know, but the 'must know' stuff is dumb.
  • Options

    One for the railway buffs: the Exeter to Okehamptin railway is reopening fully to passengers on November 20th!

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021/nov/08/dartmoor-train-line-reopen-50-years-after-axed-walkers-cyclists-wild-campers

    Gives Sunil another line to do... ;)

    Did it on Sunday 4th August 2019, in fact :)
    Yeah, but that was a preserved operation. Surely you need to do it again now it's part of the official network. Do you need much of an excuse? ;)

    (It's actually going to be brilliant for walkers and riders. Really convenient for some brilliant terrain; sadly, not an area I've done yet.)
    NOT a preserved operation, it was a GWR summer Sunday service. So there!

    The one I really regret not doing before the pandemic was Dale Rail (Clitheroe to Hellifield). Oh, and the small matter of Inverness to Kyle, and also the Thurso/Wick line. Also need to do the Metrolink branch to Trafford Centre.

    But in September I at least added the Battersea Power Station branch of the Northern Line :)
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Warner won’t be too happy to be out for 49.

    Pakistan modest favourites now
    the silly convict
    Can't we leave this kind of thing out of here?

    It was lovely to see Mitchell refuse to take that run yesterday because he impeded Rashid.

    A true gent. How the game should be.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,903
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Halfway through your innings, your best batsman is given out, dubiously. Why on earth would you NOT review?

    You must be enjoying the extremely unsubtle camera work focussing repeatedly on young ladies in the crowd?

    Great game of cricket. Pakistan are formidable but this isn't over yet.
    To bring the subject around a bit. - this crowd is what a mask mandate, with £600 fines for non-compliance, looks like when cases are below 100 a day from a population of 10m.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,984
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    She had bigger battles to fight. And at least she didn't complete the closures. Her own school for example remains a Grammar to this day.

    You are still not answering why you think your bought privileges should be denied to others less fortunate than yourself?

    Because my 'bought privileges' didn't harm other children in the way grammar schools do.
    In what way does a Grammar school harm the children who don't attend it?

    Results for secondary moderns (i.e. none Grammar schools) in Bucks are better than a lot of Comprehensives elsewhere.

    Heck their results are better than all bar 2 of my local comprehensives - and that's after the top 20% of the children have been removed. I say top 20% because it's remarkable how many Grammar School pupils commute into Buckinghamshire from Harrow.
    Grammar schools damage social cohesion and make no difference to exam grades — new research

    ...The damage of grammar schools.

    But this is not just a UK issue, as evidence shows that the disproportionate clustering of students within schools in terms of their ability, is a matter of concern worldwide.

    All other things being equal, research shows that school systems across the world with higher levels of segregation of students by their parental income or immigrant status have been linked to lower overall attainment and weaker progress wherever this has been assessed.

    It is also likely that children going to school in segregated areas will have less qualified teachers. This can lead to reduced opportunities to learn.

    The school mix by socioeconomic status even seems to negatively influence how students are treated in school, as well as teachers’ expectations, and their relationships with pupils. This socioeconomic schooling divide also seems to have a negative impact on wider non-cognitive outcomes, such as emotional and behavioural problems, students’ sense of justice, civic knowledge and engagement.

    All of which shows that dividing children by their ability levels from an early age, does not appear to lead to better results for either group. This is not to decry the schools that are currently grammars, or the work of their staff. It simply shows that the kind of social segregation experienced by children in certain areas in England exists for no clear gain.


    https://www.dur.ac.uk/news/allnews/thoughtleadership/?itemno=34192
    Social segregation not a private school problem?
    Nope, because the state isn't quite so influential with private schools as they are with grammar schools.
    Ever been to Scotland - there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    Everything you have so far posted shows that money (sometimes sent directly to the school) sometimes spent on a house to ensure you get to a particular school solves the problem for you.

    What is your opinion on Church of England / Catholic schools - or are they equally sinful.
    That is complete and utter bollox of the first order. Obviously you have never been to Scotland spouting that utter claptrap. Halfwitted nutter.
    What is wrong with that first sentence.

    there are a lot of people there who use private education because the local offering is so bad.

    It's a simple fact because if it wasn't (perceived to be) true private education wouldn't exist in Scotland.
    That is not the reason why people use private schools. Many of the state schools get far better results. It varies from perception to oneupmanship and them wanting to pretend they are better than the plebs. Some may believe it but given they will nearly all be loaded they will be living in catchment areas that have the best state schools available. I doubt you have any knowledge of Scottish schools and at best formed your opinion from the Daily Heil.
    Nope mainly from our Friends up there (who are in the private school camp in the way none of our other friends are).

    It's the scale of the difference (100% of Scottish friends using Private schools (some not rich), but no NI, Welsh or English friends doing so) that makes me wonder why they do so.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292
    That's it, surely
  • Options
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Warner won’t be too happy to be out for 49.

    Pakistan modest favourites now
    the silly convict
    Can't we leave this kind of thing out of here?

    It was lovely to see Mitchell refuse to take that run yesterday because he impeded Rashid.

    A true gent. How the game should be.
    No, you bang on about the spirit of the game but David Warner is a cheat who deserved a lifetime ban.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265

    One for the railway buffs: the Exeter to Okehamptin railway is reopening fully to passengers on November 20th!

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021/nov/08/dartmoor-train-line-reopen-50-years-after-axed-walkers-cyclists-wild-campers

    Gives Sunil another line to do... ;)

    Did it on Sunday 4th August 2019, in fact :)
    Yeah, but that was a preserved operation. Surely you need to do it again now it's part of the official network. Do you need much of an excuse? ;)

    (It's actually going to be brilliant for walkers and riders. Really convenient for some brilliant terrain; sadly, not an area I've done yet.)
    NOT a preserved operation, it was a GWR summer Sunday service. So there!

    The one I really regret not doing before the pandemic was Dale Rail (Clitheroe to Hellifield). Oh, and the small matter of Inverness to Kyle, and also the Thurso/Wick line. Also need to do the Metrolink branch to Trafford Centre.

    But in September I at least added the Battersea Power Station branch of the Northern Line :)
    My two favourite lines are the Settle to Carlise: absolutely stunning and, of course, the West Highland Line which has justifiably been voted the most beautiful railway journey in the world.

    The Okey line is pretty. As, of course, is the Dawlish line too.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    Pakistan favourites now. Must be.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,292

    Pakistan favourites now. Must be.

    1/5 favourites
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Farooq said:

    Alistair said:
    mistrial
    Amazingly I don't even think it is the worst thing he has done in the trial so far.
This discussion has been closed.