She was talking complete rubbish in a lot of her questions but came across far more interesting than Mogadon Man.
I'd score it 2-1 to Boris.
After Ed, Angela and Reeves have all done better in their replies/questions than dreary Sir Keir ever does normally. Surely MPs in Labour are going to have to do a leadership challenge soon rather than let him bore them on to another defeat?
‘ LOL, Boris says Rayner has "a gigawatt more energy" than Starmer. Actually turning the fact she duffed him up into an advantage for him.’
Didn't work that well for loser Trump in the end though. I have always said it is in the interests of Tories to talk up Rayner because she is so repulsive to the floating voter. A Labour Party led by Rayner (or some other Corbynite left wing nutter) is about the only thing that could persuade me to vote Tory at the moment
Could be something in that, yes. Mind you, with the Patterson scandal, Angela's "tory scum" isn't looking quite as wild-eyed as it did. Will she retract that apology?
One of the many interesting psychoses in politics is that of psychological projection. When Rayner calls Tories "scum" it reminds me of when Malcolmg accuses another poster of being "thick as mince".
F off scumbag, back under your rock you cretinous imbecile. Dribble about some one who cares.
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
Just to confirm I am not Sir Peter Bottomley, notwithstanding our shared point that its inappropriate to change a process 'mid-game'.
The urgent timing of all this 'concern' is rather blatant in revealing true motivations to protect a mate, as well as misrepresenting a multi stage system.
Even Guido can see reason on it. My MP fortunate to be absent for the vote it seems.
The Tories are even worse than I thought. Although I'm yet to see the detailed breakdown, given there are 361 Tory MPs and only 250 votes were in favour, it looks like a lot of the remaining 111 abstained - especially as only 482 votes were cast. It can't just be pairing. How the f**k can you abstain on a cut and dried motion like this? Pure cowardice, I'd suggest.
It's the same as we saw when they had a go at the department dealing with expenses. Far too many MPs of all stripes felt hard done by about being challenged about how they spent public money. Similarly here, too many MPs probably think there but for the grace of the DM go I.
It brings Parliament into disrepute. And devalues our democracy. Bah.
Twelve trans prisoners convicted of violence or sexual crimes have been accommodated in Scottish women’s jails within the past 18 months, according to figures released under Freedom of Information laws.
A long-awaited review by the Scottish Prison Service (SPS) into Scotland’s transgender prison policy will consider ending the rare practice of transitioning male inmates demanding a move to female housing.
Only one of the prisoners had completed transition and the other 11 were self-identifying as female, it has emerged.
So they are considering ending this rare practice. What is it you're worried about? Why are you saying "what could possibly go wrong?" like that? I don't quite follow.
I see what you did there, neatly finessing a thoroughly valid point into an instance of what you probably call transphobia.
How do you define "rare"? On a given day there's approx 400 women in Scottish prisons, and on the showing of this story 12 of them, or 3% are trans. And that's the ones that have been moved, whereas it's the applications which are called "rare." Applications are necessarily at least as numerous as actual moves, unless some people are being moved forcibly.
Moving on from that, ignoring the one who has actually put hir money where hir mouth is, what would you think is a reasonable over/under number of the remaining 11 at which it is evens that they are purely taking the piss? Realistically?
I don't know why you think there is anything wrong with finding this story as funny as it is. Tell you what: I know a bloke called Declan, 24 or 25, whom I've known since he was a very pretty 13 year old girl called Emma (names changed, otherwise true) who, if I didn't believe anyway in principle in the existence of trans people and their absolute right to be trans, is so obviously a bloke that I would change my mind. I'll ask him next time I see him if it's as funny as I think it is.
The Tories are even worse than I thought. Although I'm yet to see the detailed breakdown, given there are 361 Tory MPs and only 250 votes were in favour, it looks like a lot of the remaining 111 abstained - especially as only 482 votes were cast. It can't just be pairing. How the f**k can you abstain on a cut and dried motion like this? Pure cowardice, I'd suggest.
Only 13 / 45 SNP 11 / 12 LD 1 / 3 PC 1 / 2 Alba 1 / 2 SDLP 2 / 6 Independent (1 / 6 Independent voted Aye)
0 / 8 DUP (1 / 8 DUP voted Aye)
So the opposition really could have won this. Its a shame none of the Opposition MPs who wanted this to be carried felt free to vote Aye instead of abstaining.
Mr. Carnyx, Pyrrhus had a rare winning record against the Romans. Two wins out of three is pretty impressive, especially when he suffered losses in the naval transport to Tarentum.
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
So continues the Tory descent into autocracy. How did the opposition not have the numbers either? The government could have been defeated but where was Labour marshalling their own MPs and disaffected Tories into defeating the government?!
Pairing.
Even with pairing, surely the votes existed to defeat the government.
Not really - Tories have a majority of 80.
And won by 18 votes.
273 opposition party MPs. Plus 6 independents, not sure how many of them would be classed with the opposition and how many were elected Conservatives who might expect to vote with the government.
Even with pairing, and less 1 Deputy Speaker and 2 Tellers it should have been possible to martial 250 votes which would have defeated the amendment.
Some opposition MPs either couldn't be bothered to turn up, or have abstained as a matter of conscience as they wanted the vote to be carried.
Oh, so it's all SKS's fault? Now that really does take the Tunnock's teacake.
I didn't see it was his fault, did I?
If some Opposition MPs wanted this to be carried, then that's quite reasonable for them to abstain on this.
It will be interesting to see the list of Opposition MPs who didn't vote.
Looks like Ed Miliband, Margaret Beckett and Sir Keir Starmer are all secret Boris admirers:
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
To be fair given his wife took suicide over this issue I think he has already suffered enough. I expect a few opposition MPs felt the same as clearly did most Tory MPs.
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
When did Cameron’s aide, Steve Hilton, become an ardent anti-Woke campaigner?
Curious
‘Virginia we are all with you today!
Fight back against racist woke indoctrination in schools...the arrogance and failure of Democrat one party rule...the cruel and counter-productive lockdowns and school closures
When he realised it was raising billions of dollars in donations to indirectly fund the lifestyle of political aides?
Hilton went funny a while ago. How you go from Big Society to MAGA, I really don't know. Could be, as you say, that he's in it for the bucks and clicks now. Lots of MAGA types are.
MAGA = Money, Attention, Grift, A ...
Damn, can't get a good 2nd word starting with 'A' to make that work.
Seeing as it is stateside, asshole?
Lots of votes for US derivatives of bum, I see. It's tempting but William's more cerebral one works better imo. Glad to see William being cerebral again btw. Much missed.
So continues the Tory descent into autocracy. How did the opposition not have the numbers either? The government could have been defeated but where was Labour marshalling their own MPs and disaffected Tories into defeating the government?!
Pairing.
Even with pairing, surely the votes existed to defeat the government.
Not really - Tories have a majority of 80.
And won by 18 votes.
273 opposition party MPs. Plus 6 independents, not sure how many of them would be classed with the opposition and how many were elected Conservatives who might expect to vote with the government.
Even with pairing, and less 1 Deputy Speaker and 2 Tellers it should have been possible to martial 250 votes which would have defeated the amendment.
Some opposition MPs either couldn't be bothered to turn up, or have abstained as a matter of conscience as they wanted the vote to be carried.
Oh, so it's all SKS's fault? Now that really does take the Tunnock's teacake.
I didn't see it was his fault, did I?
If some Opposition MPs wanted this to be carried, then that's quite reasonable for them to abstain on this.
It will be interesting to see the list of Opposition MPs who didn't vote.
Looks like Ed Miliband, Margaret Beckett and Sir Keir Starmer are all secret Boris admirers:
Twelve trans prisoners convicted of violence or sexual crimes have been accommodated in Scottish women’s jails within the past 18 months, according to figures released under Freedom of Information laws.
A long-awaited review by the Scottish Prison Service (SPS) into Scotland’s transgender prison policy will consider ending the rare practice of transitioning male inmates demanding a move to female housing.
Only one of the prisoners had completed transition and the other 11 were self-identifying as female, it has emerged.
This is allegedly a letter from an Edinburgh school to all its parents
"My son is 5 and just got this from the school! Let kids be kids ffs this feels like something Derek Mackay dreamt up! #letkidsbekids #LeaveOurChildrenalone"
She offers no proof so it could easily be a hoax. However she does add some context for plausibility, and one of the replies is from another parent claiming they got the same letter....
What's wrong with that?
Far better that boys be allowed to wear skirts and told that's okay, than encouraged to think that if they want to wear skirts it's a sign that they're "really a girl" and should be taking irreversible medical treatment.
They're far too young
Far too young to wear a skirt?
There's nothing about wearing a skirt that should be seen as remotely unusual. It's a piece of cloth stitched into a particular shape. They're not introducing them to dildos.
Far too young to have their brains messed with concepts like "breaking down gender stereotypes". It is lunacy
And as we see they are doing it to kids as young as 5
Gender stereotypes - like those that have outwardly rational people on here musing that maybe women just aren't interested in politics, and that's why most MPs are men - are actively harmful.
Gender stereotypes are thought to be one reason why young men don't talk to others about being depressed, leading to a shockingly high rate of suicide.
We should certainly be teaching children that they can be who they want to be, and do what they want to do, regardless of whether they are a boy or a girl.
This type of thinking is in the ascendency, and why I think that boys wearing skirts at school will be quickly normalised. However, over the longer term; it won't be more than a brief cultural experiment, confined to a few western societies. Gender norms are very deeply entrenched in human psychology; and it is unlikely that they can be overturned by a campaign of social conditioning; which is what this effectively is.
So continues the Tory descent into autocracy. How did the opposition not have the numbers either? The government could have been defeated but where was Labour marshalling their own MPs and disaffected Tories into defeating the government?!
Pairing.
Even with pairing, surely the votes existed to defeat the government.
Not really - Tories have a majority of 80.
And won by 18 votes.
273 opposition party MPs. Plus 6 independents, not sure how many of them would be classed with the opposition and how many were elected Conservatives who might expect to vote with the government.
Even with pairing, and less 1 Deputy Speaker and 2 Tellers it should have been possible to martial 250 votes which would have defeated the amendment.
Some opposition MPs either couldn't be bothered to turn up, or have abstained as a matter of conscience as they wanted the vote to be carried.
Oh, so it's all SKS's fault? Now that really does take the Tunnock's teacake.
I didn't see it was his fault, did I?
If some Opposition MPs wanted this to be carried, then that's quite reasonable for them to abstain on this.
It will be interesting to see the list of Opposition MPs who didn't vote.
If the Labour absentees were due to pairing then you can't seriously argue this point.
If you've agreed to pair with a Tory MP (who may well be ill, on official business, or have some other reasonable basis for pairing) you cannot possibly break the pair because it looks a bit close on the day. It'd be totally dishonourable and destroy the pairing process.
There was a minor scandal a while ago when a Tory whip got a colleague to break a pair with Jo Swinson (who'd just given birth) on a tight Brexit vote. At that time, I think everyone acknowledged the whips had made a serious misjudgment and it was rightly condemned by all sides.
So continues the Tory descent into autocracy. How did the opposition not have the numbers either? The government could have been defeated but where was Labour marshalling their own MPs and disaffected Tories into defeating the government?!
Pairing.
Even with pairing, surely the votes existed to defeat the government.
Not really - Tories have a majority of 80.
And won by 18 votes.
273 opposition party MPs. Plus 6 independents, not sure how many of them would be classed with the opposition and how many were elected Conservatives who might expect to vote with the government.
Even with pairing, and less 1 Deputy Speaker and 2 Tellers it should have been possible to martial 250 votes which would have defeated the amendment.
Some opposition MPs either couldn't be bothered to turn up, or have abstained as a matter of conscience as they wanted the vote to be carried.
Oh, so it's all SKS's fault? Now that really does take the Tunnock's teacake.
I didn't see it was his fault, did I?
If some Opposition MPs wanted this to be carried, then that's quite reasonable for them to abstain on this.
It will be interesting to see the list of Opposition MPs who didn't vote.
Looks like Ed Miliband, Margaret Beckett and Sir Keir Starmer are all secret Boris admirers:
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
To be fair given his wife took suicide over this issue I think he has already suffered enough, I expect a few opposition MPs felt the same.
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
Does this new principle of justice apply to all wrongdoers whose family members commit suicide when they find out about it, or just mates of the PM?
Twelve trans prisoners convicted of violence or sexual crimes have been accommodated in Scottish women’s jails within the past 18 months, according to figures released under Freedom of Information laws.
A long-awaited review by the Scottish Prison Service (SPS) into Scotland’s transgender prison policy will consider ending the rare practice of transitioning male inmates demanding a move to female housing.
Only one of the prisoners had completed transition and the other 11 were self-identifying as female, it has emerged.
This is allegedly a letter from an Edinburgh school to all its parents
"My son is 5 and just got this from the school! Let kids be kids ffs this feels like something Derek Mackay dreamt up! #letkidsbekids #LeaveOurChildrenalone"
She offers no proof so it could easily be a hoax. However she does add some context for plausibility, and one of the replies is from another parent claiming they got the same letter....
What's wrong with that?
Far better that boys be allowed to wear skirts and told that's okay, than encouraged to think that if they want to wear skirts it's a sign that they're "really a girl" and should be taking irreversible medical treatment.
They're far too young
Far too young to wear a skirt?
There's nothing about wearing a skirt that should be seen as remotely unusual. It's a piece of cloth stitched into a particular shape. They're not introducing them to dildos.
Far too young to have their brains messed with concepts like "breaking down gender stereotypes". It is lunacy
And as we see they are doing it to kids as young as 5
Gender stereotypes - like those that have outwardly rational people on here musing that maybe women just aren't interested in politics, and that's why most MPs are men - are actively harmful.
Gender stereotypes are thought to be one reason why young men don't talk to others about being depressed, leading to a shockingly high rate of suicide.
We should certainly be teaching children that they can be who they want to be, and do what they want to do, regardless of whether they are a boy or a girl.
This type of thinking is in the ascendency, and why I think that boys wearing skirts at school will be quickly normalised. However, over the longer term; it won't be more than a brief cultural experiment, confined to a few western societies. Gender norms are very deeply entrenched in human psychology; and it is unlikely that they can be overturned by a campaign of social conditioning; which is what this effectively is.
I can't understand this hysteria about Scotland of all places. Vide the First Minister some years back -
When did Cameron’s aide, Steve Hilton, become an ardent anti-Woke campaigner?
Curious
‘Virginia we are all with you today!
Fight back against racist woke indoctrination in schools...the arrogance and failure of Democrat one party rule...the cruel and counter-productive lockdowns and school closures
When he realised it was raising billions of dollars in donations to indirectly fund the lifestyle of political aides?
Hilton went funny a while ago. How you go from Big Society to MAGA, I really don't know. Could be, as you say, that he's in it for the bucks and clicks now. Lots of MAGA types are.
MAGA = Money, Attention, Grift, A ...
Damn, can't get a good 2nd word starting with 'A' to make that work.
So continues the Tory descent into autocracy. How did the opposition not have the numbers either? The government could have been defeated but where was Labour marshalling their own MPs and disaffected Tories into defeating the government?!
Pairing.
Even with pairing, surely the votes existed to defeat the government.
Not really - Tories have a majority of 80.
And won by 18 votes.
273 opposition party MPs. Plus 6 independents, not sure how many of them would be classed with the opposition and how many were elected Conservatives who might expect to vote with the government.
Even with pairing, and less 1 Deputy Speaker and 2 Tellers it should have been possible to martial 250 votes which would have defeated the amendment.
Some opposition MPs either couldn't be bothered to turn up, or have abstained as a matter of conscience as they wanted the vote to be carried.
Oh, so it's all SKS's fault? Now that really does take the Tunnock's teacake.
I didn't see it was his fault, did I?
If some Opposition MPs wanted this to be carried, then that's quite reasonable for them to abstain on this.
It will be interesting to see the list of Opposition MPs who didn't vote.
If the Labour absentees were due to pairing then you can't seriously argue this point.
If you've agreed to pair with a Tory MP (who may well be ill, on official business, or have some other reasonable basis for pairing) you cannot possibly break the pair because it looks a bit close on the day. It'd be totally dishonourable and destroy the pairing process.
There was a minor scandal a while ago when a Tory whip got a colleague to break a pair with Jo Swinson (who'd just given birth) on a tight Brexit vote. At that time, I think everyone acknowledged the whips had made a serious misjudgment and it was rightly condemned by all sides.
If it is due to pairing that's fair enough, but its a lot of abstentions.
Sam Coates was reporting this morning that even many Labour MPs were privately saying they were concerned about this, so is it beyond the realm of possibility that some abstained wanting the vote to be carried but didn't think they could vote Aye due to partisan reasons?
Today - and in previous votes - Aaron Bell has proved himself to be a man of genuine integrity and honour. I do not agree with his politics, but he does his constituents proud. Good on him.
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
Yes, a missed opportunity.
I'm genuinely cross about this. I care a lot about standards and processes, and that extends to changing process through an appropriate process. That means legitimate concerns are carefully considered, not a last minute fudge whipped up by the whips.
Also, when is a 'review's not a review? As the details of the vote are predicated on already concluding not both the problem but the solution.
I'm not inclined to emotional outbursts, but despite heroic efforts at justification to elide a personal complaint with principle, this looks like a f*cking disgrace.
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
To be fair given his wife took suicide over this issue I think he has already suffered enough. I expect a few opposition MPs felt the same as clearly did most Tory MPs.
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
It's a bit odd, then, that he made no particular mention of the issue following his wife's suicide. In the account below, for example, he gives no indication at all that the investigation contributed to the tragedy, let alone that she committed suicide for that specific reason.
Vote could have been defeated if 14 out of this lot had voted No.
I find it remarkable how many people on here don't understand how Parliament and Pairing within Parliament works.
This is after all a politics site as much as as a betting site...
So how would it have worked in practice today?
If I were a Tory MP embarrassed by the vote, could I just ask my whip to get me paired up as I have a doctors appointment/letter from my mum? Why would Labour agree to that in such numbers?
Yes if someone is really ill or something pair them up, but 50 odd paired in one day? Why should the opposition play along?
So continues the Tory descent into autocracy. How did the opposition not have the numbers either? The government could have been defeated but where was Labour marshalling their own MPs and disaffected Tories into defeating the government?!
Pairing.
Even with pairing, surely the votes existed to defeat the government.
Not really - Tories have a majority of 80.
And won by 18 votes.
273 opposition party MPs. Plus 6 independents, not sure how many of them would be classed with the opposition and how many were elected Conservatives who might expect to vote with the government.
Even with pairing, and less 1 Deputy Speaker and 2 Tellers it should have been possible to martial 250 votes which would have defeated the amendment.
Some opposition MPs either couldn't be bothered to turn up, or have abstained as a matter of conscience as they wanted the vote to be carried.
Oh, so it's all SKS's fault? Now that really does take the Tunnock's teacake.
I didn't see it was his fault, did I?
If some Opposition MPs wanted this to be carried, then that's quite reasonable for them to abstain on this.
It will be interesting to see the list of Opposition MPs who didn't vote.
If the Labour absentees were due to pairing then you can't seriously argue this point.
If you've agreed to pair with a Tory MP (who may well be ill, on official business, or have some other reasonable basis for pairing) you cannot possibly break the pair because it looks a bit close on the day. It'd be totally dishonourable and destroy the pairing process.
There was a minor scandal a while ago when a Tory whip got a colleague to break a pair with Jo Swinson (who'd just given birth) on a tight Brexit vote. At that time, I think everyone acknowledged the whips had made a serious misjudgment and it was rightly condemned by all sides.
If it is due to pairing that's fair enough, but its a lot of abstentions.
Sam Coates was reporting this morning that even many Labour MPs were privately saying they were concerned about this, so is it beyond the realm of possibility that some abstained wanting the vote to be carried but didn't think they could vote Aye due to partisan reasons?
It's a heck of a lot less than the number of Tory abstentions, suggesting it is pairing. Time will tell, though.
England cases nicely down again despite testing going up after half term. Hospital admissions pretty flat week on week and total in hospital falling quite a bit on the day so barely up week on week.
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Why don't you f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.
So continues the Tory descent into autocracy. How did the opposition not have the numbers either? The government could have been defeated but where was Labour marshalling their own MPs and disaffected Tories into defeating the government?!
Pairing.
Even with pairing, surely the votes existed to defeat the government.
Not really - Tories have a majority of 80.
And won by 18 votes.
273 opposition party MPs. Plus 6 independents, not sure how many of them would be classed with the opposition and how many were elected Conservatives who might expect to vote with the government.
Even with pairing, and less 1 Deputy Speaker and 2 Tellers it should have been possible to martial 250 votes which would have defeated the amendment.
Some opposition MPs either couldn't be bothered to turn up, or have abstained as a matter of conscience as they wanted the vote to be carried.
Oh, so it's all SKS's fault? Now that really does take the Tunnock's teacake.
I didn't see it was his fault, did I?
If some Opposition MPs wanted this to be carried, then that's quite reasonable for them to abstain on this.
It will be interesting to see the list of Opposition MPs who didn't vote.
If the Labour absentees were due to pairing then you can't seriously argue this point.
If you've agreed to pair with a Tory MP (who may well be ill, on official business, or have some other reasonable basis for pairing) you cannot possibly break the pair because it looks a bit close on the day. It'd be totally dishonourable and destroy the pairing process.
There was a minor scandal a while ago when a Tory whip got a colleague to break a pair with Jo Swinson (who'd just given birth) on a tight Brexit vote. At that time, I think everyone acknowledged the whips had made a serious misjudgment and it was rightly condemned by all sides.
If it is due to pairing that's fair enough, but its a lot of abstentions.
Sam Coates was reporting this morning that even many Labour MPs were privately saying they were concerned about this, so is it beyond the realm of possibility that some abstained wanting the vote to be carried but didn't think they could vote Aye due to partisan reasons?
If you were going to pick a case to make a point over the lack of an appeal process, this really isn't the case to do it. There are £250,000 reasons why this case shouldn't be the one to use.
My sister says at her school they are not allowed to wear school uniform at the moment because of Covid restrictions. The kids have to wear clothes that they can do gym and outdoor activities in. So no one is wearing a skirt, girl or boy.
Is it really surprising that Edinburgh's private schools are thriving?
98 Tory abstentions, 28 Labour abstentions. Some will have been paired. Others will have legitimate reasons (e.g. Sharma in Glasgow). But it's clear that a lot of Tories, and a few Labour, chose to abstain. How can you abstain when the issue is so clear cut?
My sister says at her school they are not allowed to wear school uniform at the moment because of Covid restrictions. The kids have to wear clothes that they can do gym and outdoor activities in. So no one is wearing a skirt, girl or boy.
Is it really surprising that Edinburgh's private schools are thriving?
What does that even mean and what does the policy even achieve?
My sister says at her school they are not allowed to wear school uniform at the moment because of Covid restrictions. The kids have to wear clothes that they can do gym and outdoor activities in. So no one is wearing a skirt, girl or boy.
Is it really surprising that Edinburgh's private schools are thriving?
What does that even mean and what does the policy even achieve?
The school Leon is so exercised about (no pun intended) is making a virtue of necessity, as it sees it?
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Why don't you f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.
My sister says at her school they are not allowed to wear school uniform at the moment because of Covid restrictions. The kids have to wear clothes that they can do gym and outdoor activities in. So no one is wearing a skirt, girl or boy.
Is it really surprising that Edinburgh's private schools are thriving?
What does that even mean and what does the policy even achieve?
It means that the kids are not all getting changed together in a small room where social distancing would be very difficult. Whether this actually achieves anything with primary school kids, <13, is harder to say.
Boris Johnson is remaking British politics in his own image - corrupt, dishonest and utterly self-serving. A shameful day for our democracy.
Yep, we are getting exactly what was going to happen once the Tories decided to make a grifting liar their leader.
it is why I voted for Jeremy Hunt
Would that be the same Jeremy Hunt that signed the amendment? 🤔
Everything is relative. Regrettable if he did. Not sure how often he has voted against a three line whip ( I am sure someone with more time than me will tell me). Either way, it is people who supported Boris Johnson, like yourself, that have taken the Tory Party into this sewer.
Also Alistair Meeks (formerly of this Parish) has it right
It’s entirely rational. The new system means in practice MPs will need govt support to escape punishment, increasing executive control. MPs have been forced to commit themselves to this. And scrutiny of the executive is further weakened. A good day’s work for the PM.
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
To be fair given his wife took suicide over this issue I think he has already suffered enough. I expect a few opposition MPs felt the same as clearly did most Tory MPs.
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
I can't disagree strongly enough with you about this. It's not even about Paterson, it's about his constituents. He is supposed to be their representative, not the representative of people with money to pay him £100,000 to lobby on his behalf. What he's done is very serious and it has to be up to the constituency as a whole to decide whether to recall him and if so, whether to re-elect him.
I repeat, this is not about him, or punishing him. It's about protecting the integrity of our democracy.
As a general rule, the solution for substandard MPs is to wait for the election and then get rid of them. The solution to corrupt MPs - and I am talking generally here - is to immediately go back to the electorate.
Cases still down WoW, I half expected the England rate to start increasing now that half term is over but the rate of decrease is still going and the LFT positives are dropping pretty fast too despite an increase in testing rates now that schools are back in. Hopefully that will continue over the next couple of weeks, even if the rate of descent is slow, as long as it is sustained we can finally call this pandemic as over for this country.
Boris Johnson is remaking British politics in his own image - corrupt, dishonest and utterly self-serving. A shameful day for our democracy.
Yep, we are getting exactly what was going to happen once the Tories decided to make a grifting liar their leader.
it is why I voted for Jeremy Hunt
Would that be the same Jeremy Hunt that signed the amendment? 🤔
Everything is relative. Regrettable if he did. Not sure how often he has voted against a three line whip ( I am sure someone with more time than me will tell me). Either way, it is people who supported Boris Johnson, like yourself, that have taken the Tory Party into this sewer.
I respect Jeremy Hunt but had he been Tory leader I doubt he would have got a majority against Corbyn, more a rehash of May's 2017 result. Farage would still have stood BXP candidates in Tory seats so the Tories would have lost more seats to the LDs and I doubt he would have won as many seats from Labour in the Redwall as Boris did, being a Remainer unlike Leaver Boris
98 Tory abstentions, 28 Labour abstentions. Some will have been paired. Others will have legitimate reasons (e.g. Sharma in Glasgow). But it's clear that a lot of Tories, and a few Labour, chose to abstain. How can you abstain when the issue is so clear cut?
No, it is not clear from those numbers that even "a few" Labour chose to abstain, giving pairing.
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Why don't you f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Why don't you f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Ah you missed the most important criteria off. Do you instinctively and irrationally hate the French. I suspect that TSE will not be allowing your leave to stay until you have answered this one enthusiastically.
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Why don't you f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.
To be fair aren't kjh and MaxPB already LDs anyway?
It means that the kids are not all getting changed together in a small room where social distancing would be very difficult. Whether this actually achieves anything with primary school kids, 13, is harder to say.
Twelve trans prisoners convicted of violence or sexual crimes have been accommodated in Scottish women’s jails within the past 18 months, according to figures released under Freedom of Information laws.
A long-awaited review by the Scottish Prison Service (SPS) into Scotland’s transgender prison policy will consider ending the rare practice of transitioning male inmates demanding a move to female housing.
Only one of the prisoners had completed transition and the other 11 were self-identifying as female, it has emerged.
So they are considering ending this rare practice. What is it you're worried about? Why are you saying "what could possibly go wrong?" like that? I don't quite follow.
Think fox in chicken coop may be the translation
List of people they consulted before introducing the reform:
Women's Groups Female Prisoners Female Prison Warders Trans Activists Stonewall
My sister says at her school they are not allowed to wear school uniform at the moment because of Covid restrictions. The kids have to wear clothes that they can do gym and outdoor activities in. So no one is wearing a skirt, girl or boy.
Is it really surprising that Edinburgh's private schools are thriving?
What does that even mean and what does the policy even achieve?
It means that the kids are not all getting changed together in a small room where social distancing would be very difficult. Whether this actually achieves anything with primary school kids, less than 13, is harder to say.
My daughter's school has had kids go to school wearing their PE kit on days they do PE which seems fair enough. But their PE kit is still a school uniform, its just a variant of the uniform. Its the only Covid change they've kept after the summer holiday that I can see, all other Covid changes have been dropped.
One reason they named in keeping it was that they found it saved a lot of time not having the kids get changed and it was a positive for the school day so I'm not sure if they're intending to keep this permanently post-Covid or not?
98 Tory abstentions, 28 Labour abstentions. Some will have been paired. Others will have legitimate reasons (e.g. Sharma in Glasgow). But it's clear that a lot of Tories, and a few Labour, chose to abstain. How can you abstain when the issue is so clear cut?
No, it is not clear from those numbers that even "a few" Labour chose to abstain, giving pairing.
You're right, I meant to insert the word 'possibly'. I think it unlikely that any Labour MPs did voluntarily abstain, actually.
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
To be fair given his wife took suicide over this issue I think he has already suffered enough, I expect a few opposition MPs felt the same.
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
Does this new principle of justice apply to all wrongdoers whose family members commit suicide when they find out about it, or just mates of the PM?
Nobody is arguing he committed a criminal offence.
Suspending him for a month really makes little difference, his constituents are his employers, let them decide to keep him or not at the next general election
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Why don't you f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.
Too late by several decades
I didn't know the Lib Dems had an age limit. That explains a lot.
Miss Moorehead @MissMooreheadCV · Nov 1 P3B have been preparing for Thursday, when P6 are encouraging everybody to wear a skirt to raise awareness of #LaRopaNoTieneGenero, or as our lovely posters say ‘clothing has no gender’ @MissWhiteCV@MissMcGroryCV.
I think this type of thing will seem very normal by this time next year.
Yes, Peak Woke will never happen, it will just continue and worsen
You have to wonder how mad it might get
2020 went beyond what happened in 1968. The revolution will keep going until it reaches some sort of limit: either it collapses due to the absurdity of its own contradictions, or it gets attacked from outside. All you can really do is try and stay out of its way.
Also Alistair Meeks (formerly of this Parish) has it right
It’s entirely rational. The new system means in practice MPs will need govt support to escape punishment, increasing executive control. MPs have been forced to commit themselves to this. And scrutiny of the executive is further weakened. A good day’s work for the PM.
Yes, Boris has played a blinder. The message is clear: agree to his protection and literally anything can be done to save you; defy him and anything can be done to destroy you. Boris rules by utter favour and utter fear.
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Ah you missed the most important criteria off. Do you instinctively and irrationally hate the French. I suspect that TSE will not be allowing your leave to stay until you have answered this one enthusiastically.
Oh dear, I quite like them, but I do enjoy baiting them. I am after all from the Jeremy Clarkson wing of the LDs.
Hi @MaxPB , although I shouldn't need to do this I wonder whether this meets your criteria for being British. I like the following:
Pubs British beer British food British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc The countryside Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list British sport British comedy
Can I stay please?
Why don't you f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.
To be fair aren't kjh and MaxPB already LDs anyway?
What's the position on MPs voting in divisions if they are isolating for covid reasons?
The normal process is they are paired on the day of the vote, so their unavoidable absence doesn't change the result, and then for the next three years people with ideological differences pretend that they chose to not vote for some sinister other reason.
Boris Johnson is remaking British politics in his own image - corrupt, dishonest and utterly self-serving. A shameful day for our democracy.
Yep, we are getting exactly what was going to happen once the Tories decided to make a grifting liar their leader.
it is why I voted for Jeremy Hunt
Would that be the same Jeremy Hunt that signed the amendment? 🤔
Everything is relative. Regrettable if he did. Not sure how often he has voted against a three line whip ( I am sure someone with more time than me will tell me). Either way, it is people who supported Boris Johnson, like yourself, that have taken the Tory Party into this sewer.
Look at the Tweet in the OP
Hunt didn't just vote Aye on a three line whip.
He is one of the names printed on the amendment as a signatory proposing the amendment.
He literally helped propose the amendment, he didn't just vote for it.
Labour's @AngelaRayner confirms party won't take part in new standards system: "Labour will not be taking any part in this sham process or any corrupt committee."
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
To be fair given his wife took suicide over this issue I think he has already suffered enough. I expect a few opposition MPs felt the same as clearly did most Tory MPs.
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
What an utterly specious argument, even by your own dismal standards. By you logic, MPs needn't have a disciplinary process at all - leave it all to the election. Those in safe seats (like Patterson) would be practically immune under that process - very little chance his appalling, egregious breach of paid lobbying rules would trump the likely desire of his constituents for a Tory Government in 2023/24.
The "already suffered enough" line is similarly nonsensical. Patterson has shamelessly used the tragic death of his wife to deflect from his corrupt actions before that happened. He claims the pressure of the disciplinary process contributed to her death. Nobody here can know if that is true or not. But we do know WHY there was a disciplinary process... it's because Mr Patterson repeatedly, blatantly abused his position and privileges to feather his nest. Try a similar line at sentencing in the Crown Court and see how far it gets you.
Boris Johnson is remaking British politics in his own image - corrupt, dishonest and utterly self-serving. A shameful day for our democracy.
Yep, we are getting exactly what was going to happen once the Tories decided to make a grifting liar their leader.
it is why I voted for Jeremy Hunt
Would that be the same Jeremy Hunt that signed the amendment? 🤔
Everything is relative. Regrettable if he did. Not sure how often he has voted against a three line whip ( I am sure someone with more time than me will tell me). Either way, it is people who supported Boris Johnson, like yourself, that have taken the Tory Party into this sewer.
I respect Jeremy Hunt but had he been Tory leader I doubt he would have got a majority against Corbyn, more a rehash of May's 2017 result. Farage would still have stood BXP candidates in Tory seats so the Tories would have lost more seats to the LDs and I doubt he would have won as many seats from Labour in the Redwall as Boris did, being a Remainer unlike Leaver Boris
As I have said many times, winning an election is very important, but it is what you do when you have won it that counts. I think Mrs T said it somewhat more eloquently but I cant recall the quote.
Boris Johnson is continually forgiven by folk such as yourself because he "won". The reality is the real Tory party lost. They replaced centuries of belief in good governance and statesmanship with ego driven populism and clownish tomfoolery. Britain is a laughing stock. When people talk about patriotism, think of an image of Boris Johnson and ask yourself whether any world leader takes him seriously.
Twelve trans prisoners convicted of violence or sexual crimes have been accommodated in Scottish women’s jails within the past 18 months, according to figures released under Freedom of Information laws.
A long-awaited review by the Scottish Prison Service (SPS) into Scotland’s transgender prison policy will consider ending the rare practice of transitioning male inmates demanding a move to female housing.
Only one of the prisoners had completed transition and the other 11 were self-identifying as female, it has emerged.
So they are considering ending this rare practice. What is it you're worried about? Why are you saying "what could possibly go wrong?" like that? I don't quite follow.
I see what you did there, neatly finessing a thoroughly valid point into an instance of what you probably call transphobia.
How do you define "rare"? On a given day there's approx 400 women in Scottish prisons, and on the showing of this story 12 of them, or 3% are trans. And that's the ones that have been moved, whereas it's the applications which are called "rare." Applications are necessarily at least as numerous as actual moves, unless some people are being moved forcibly.
Moving on from that, ignoring the one who has actually put hir money where hir mouth is, what would you think is a reasonable over/under number of the remaining 11 at which it is evens that they are purely taking the piss? Realistically?
I don't know why you think there is anything wrong with finding this story as funny as it is. Tell you what: I know a bloke called Declan, 24 or 25, whom I've known since he was a very pretty 13 year old girl called Emma (names changed, otherwise true) who, if I didn't believe anyway in principle in the existence of trans people and their absolute right to be trans, is so obviously a bloke that I would change my mind. I'll ask him next time I see him if it's as funny as I think it is.
I can't quite unravel this one from you. The story says the practice is rare and they are considering stopping it entirely. I wasn't questioning that, I'm assuming it's a true story, and I'm not talking about whether anything about it is funny or not. I was just asking Carlotta (who posted it) about their "what could possibly go wrong?" boilerplate. It was a genuine question.
Boris Johnson is remaking British politics in his own image - corrupt, dishonest and utterly self-serving. A shameful day for our democracy.
Yep, we are getting exactly what was going to happen once the Tories decided to make a grifting liar their leader.
it is why I voted for Jeremy Hunt
Would that be the same Jeremy Hunt that signed the amendment? 🤔
Everything is relative. Regrettable if he did. Not sure how often he has voted against a three line whip ( I am sure someone with more time than me will tell me). Either way, it is people who supported Boris Johnson, like yourself, that have taken the Tory Party into this sewer.
I respect Jeremy Hunt but had he been Tory leader I doubt he would have got a majority against Corbyn, more a rehash of May's 2017 result. Farage would still have stood BXP candidates in Tory seats so the Tories would have lost more seats to the LDs and I doubt he would have won as many seats from Labour in the Redwall as Boris did, being a Remainer unlike Leaver Boris
As I have said many times, winning an election is very important, but it is what you do when you have won it that counts. I think Mrs T said it somewhat more eloquently but I cant recall the quote.
Boris Johnson is continually forgiven by folk such as yourself because he "won". The reality is the real Tory party lost. They replaced centuries of belief in good governance and statesmanship with ego driven populism and clownish tomfoolery. Britain is a laughing stock. When people talk about patriotism, think of an image of Boris Johnson and ask yourself whether any world leader takes him seriously.
Yes we know full well Biden takes him seriously. Hence AUKUS etc
Just because you don't, doesn't mean people like Biden are as deluded with clown metaphors as you are.
Miss Moorehead @MissMooreheadCV · Nov 1 P3B have been preparing for Thursday, when P6 are encouraging everybody to wear a skirt to raise awareness of #LaRopaNoTieneGenero, or as our lovely posters say ‘clothing has no gender’ @MissWhiteCV@MissMcGroryCV.
I think this type of thing will seem very normal by this time next year.
Yes, Peak Woke will never happen, it will just continue and worsen
You have to wonder how mad it might get
2020 went beyond what happened in 1968. The revolution will keep going until it reaches some sort of limit: either it collapses due to the absurdity of its own contradictions, or it gets attacked from outside. All you can really do is try and stay out of its way.
The absent @SeanT, erstwhile citizen of this same manor, posits in the Spectator that Woke is actually a proper new religion, and will thus endure
Let us hope that, as always, he is entirely wrong and befuddled by The Drink
When the bullying and harassment complaints process was established everyone I know who worked in Parliament was sceptical that any really serious sanction would be imposed on an MP by the House. I know that is a different process from a standards breach but today just enforces that fear. When push comes to shove MPs will always find a way to protect a colleague if he's well liked enough. The ramifications of this vote go well beyond any immediate impact on the Standards process.
Boris Johnson is remaking British politics in his own image - corrupt, dishonest and utterly self-serving. A shameful day for our democracy.
Yep, we are getting exactly what was going to happen once the Tories decided to make a grifting liar their leader.
it is why I voted for Jeremy Hunt
Would that be the same Jeremy Hunt that signed the amendment? 🤔
Everything is relative. Regrettable if he did. Not sure how often he has voted against a three line whip ( I am sure someone with more time than me will tell me). Either way, it is people who supported Boris Johnson, like yourself, that have taken the Tory Party into this sewer.
Look at the Tweet in the OP
Hunt didn't just vote Aye on a three line whip.
He is one of the names printed on the amendment as a signatory proposing the amendment.
He literally helped propose the amendment, he didn't just vote for it.
I am sure that will please you, and thank you for the info. Truth is that it doesn't change the fact that you are one of PBs biggest fanbois for the Clown. Whatever Hunt does, even if he turns out to be a serial killer, my conscience is clear: I didn't vote or ever promote the cause of the man that has trashed the reputation of his party in the same way he has trashed the reputation of his country; a ridiculous egotist who is every bit as damaging for this country as Trump has been for the US. You have enthusiastically loved him, endorsed him and voted for him. Well done Philip!
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
To be fair given his wife took suicide over this issue I think he has already suffered enough. I expect a few opposition MPs felt the same as clearly did most Tory MPs.
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
What an utterly specious argument, even by your own dismal standards. By you logic, MPs needn't have a disciplinary process at all - leave it all to the election. Those in safe seats (like Patterson) would be practically immune under that process - very little chance his appalling, egregious breach of paid lobbying rules would trump the likely desire of his constituents for a Tory Government in 2023/24.
The "already suffered enough" line is similarly nonsensical. Patterson has shamelessly used the tragic death of his wife to deflect from his corrupt actions before that happened. He claims the pressure of the disciplinary process contributed to her death. Nobody here can know if that is true or not. But we do know WHY there was a disciplinary process... it's because Mr Patterson repeatedly, blatantly abused his position and privileges to feather his nest. Try a similar line at sentencing in the Crown Court and see how far it gets you.
That is largely my view actually.
MPs employers are their constituents and their local party, not Parliament. Parliament is there to serve MPs and Lords not the other way round.
If their local party or their constituents dislike what they are doing they can deselect them or vote them out at election time.
As I said he is not facing any criminal charges so Crown Court sentencing is not relevant
Cases still down WoW, I half expected the England rate to start increasing now that half term is over but the rate of decrease is still going and the LFT positives are dropping pretty fast too despite an increase in testing rates now that schools are back in. Hopefully that will continue over the next couple of weeks, even if the rate of descent is slow, as long as it is sustained we can finally call this pandemic as over for this country.
Not to say whether it's good or bad but I'm guessing there will be some, perhaps many who have been 2x jabbed, have symptoms, take the LFT which is a positive and simply isolate themselves in not associating with others and don't bother to report it or go for the palaver of a PCR.
Boris Johnson is remaking British politics in his own image - corrupt, dishonest and utterly self-serving. A shameful day for our democracy.
Yep, we are getting exactly what was going to happen once the Tories decided to make a grifting liar their leader.
it is why I voted for Jeremy Hunt
Would that be the same Jeremy Hunt that signed the amendment? 🤔
Everything is relative. Regrettable if he did. Not sure how often he has voted against a three line whip ( I am sure someone with more time than me will tell me). Either way, it is people who supported Boris Johnson, like yourself, that have taken the Tory Party into this sewer.
I respect Jeremy Hunt but had he been Tory leader I doubt he would have got a majority against Corbyn, more a rehash of May's 2017 result. Farage would still have stood BXP candidates in Tory seats so the Tories would have lost more seats to the LDs and I doubt he would have won as many seats from Labour in the Redwall as Boris did, being a Remainer unlike Leaver Boris
As I have said many times, winning an election is very important, but it is what you do when you have won it that counts. I think Mrs T said it somewhat more eloquently but I cant recall the quote.
Boris Johnson is continually forgiven by folk such as yourself because he "won". The reality is the real Tory party lost. They replaced centuries of belief in good governance and statesmanship with ego driven populism and clownish tomfoolery. Britain is a laughing stock. When people talk about patriotism, think of an image of Boris Johnson and ask yourself whether any world leader takes him seriously.
Yes we know full well Biden takes him seriously. Hence AUKUS etc
Just because you don't, doesn't mean people like Biden are as deluded with clown metaphors as you are.
I am deluded? It is called diplomacy you silly boy. You think Biden admires him and this is the reason for AUKUS? Oh dear lol!
As I have said many times, winning an election is very important, but it is what you do when you have won it that counts. I think Mrs T said it somewhat more eloquently but I cant recall the quote.
Boris Johnson is continually forgiven by folk such as yourself because he "won". The reality is the real Tory party lost. They replaced centuries of belief in good governance and statesmanship with ego driven populism and clownish tomfoolery. Britain is a laughing stock. When people talk about patriotism, think of an image of Boris Johnson and ask yourself whether any world leader takes him seriously.
I have a feeling that you would have been saying something similar in 1981 about Thatcher and cringing with embarrassment about her handbagging the EEC over the rebate.
A lot of Tories did not want to be associated with this vote
And yet because of their cowardice they all are. Absolutely disgraceful from the government and the MPs. The opposition completely caught napping as well given the level of Tory abstentions.
To be fair given his wife took suicide over this issue I think he has already suffered enough. I expect a few opposition MPs felt the same as clearly did most Tory MPs.
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
What an utterly specious argument, even by your own dismal standards. By you logic, MPs needn't have a disciplinary process at all - leave it all to the election. Those in safe seats (like Patterson) would be practically immune under that process - very little chance his appalling, egregious breach of paid lobbying rules would trump the likely desire of his constituents for a Tory Government in 2023/24.
The "already suffered enough" line is similarly nonsensical. Patterson has shamelessly used the tragic death of his wife to deflect from his corrupt actions before that happened. He claims the pressure of the disciplinary process contributed to her death. Nobody here can know if that is true or not. But we do know WHY there was a disciplinary process... it's because Mr Patterson repeatedly, blatantly abused his position and privileges to feather his nest. Try a similar line at sentencing in the Crown Court and see how far it gets you.
That is largely my view actually.
MPs employers are their constituents and their local party, not Parliament. Parliament is there to serve MPs and Lords not the other way round.
If their local party or their constituents dislike what they are doing they can deselect them or vote them out at election time.
As I said he is not facing any criminal charges so Crown Court sentencing is not relevant
Currently - but that may change.
However, had the suspension not be suspended he would be subject to a recall petition - so his constituents have been refused an immediate chance to make their opinion known.
Labour's @AngelaRayner confirms party won't take part in new standards system: "Labour will not be taking any part in this sham process or any corrupt committee."
Miss Moorehead @MissMooreheadCV · Nov 1 P3B have been preparing for Thursday, when P6 are encouraging everybody to wear a skirt to raise awareness of #LaRopaNoTieneGenero, or as our lovely posters say ‘clothing has no gender’ @MissWhiteCV@MissMcGroryCV.
I think this type of thing will seem very normal by this time next year.
Yes, Peak Woke will never happen, it will just continue and worsen
You have to wonder how mad it might get
2020 went beyond what happened in 1968. The revolution will keep going until it reaches some sort of limit: either it collapses due to the absurdity of its own contradictions, or it gets attacked from outside. All you can really do is try and stay out of its way.
The absent @SeanT, erstwhile citizen of this same manor, posits in the Spectator that Woke is actually a proper new religion, and will thus endure
Let us hope that, as always, he is entirely wrong and befuddled by The Drink
Boris Johnson is remaking British politics in his own image - corrupt, dishonest and utterly self-serving. A shameful day for our democracy.
Yep, we are getting exactly what was going to happen once the Tories decided to make a grifting liar their leader.
it is why I voted for Jeremy Hunt
Would that be the same Jeremy Hunt that signed the amendment? 🤔
Everything is relative. Regrettable if he did. Not sure how often he has voted against a three line whip ( I am sure someone with more time than me will tell me). Either way, it is people who supported Boris Johnson, like yourself, that have taken the Tory Party into this sewer.
I respect Jeremy Hunt but had he been Tory leader I doubt he would have got a majority against Corbyn, more a rehash of May's 2017 result. Farage would still have stood BXP candidates in Tory seats so the Tories would have lost more seats to the LDs and I doubt he would have won as many seats from Labour in the Redwall as Boris did, being a Remainer unlike Leaver Boris
As I have said many times, winning an election is very important, but it is what you do when you have won it that counts. I think Mrs T said it somewhat more eloquently but I cant recall the quote.
Boris Johnson is continually forgiven by folk such as yourself because he "won". The reality is the real Tory party lost. They replaced centuries of belief in good governance and statesmanship with ego driven populism and clownish tomfoolery. Britain is a laughing stock. When people talk about patriotism, think of an image of Boris Johnson and ask yourself whether any world leader takes him seriously.
Yes we know full well Biden takes him seriously. Hence AUKUS etc
Just because you don't, doesn't mean people like Biden are as deluded with clown metaphors as you are.
I am deluded? It is called diplomacy you silly boy. You think Biden admires him and this is the reason for AUKUS? Oh dear lol!
Who says anything about admires? Not me.
Biden engages in realpolitik which means taking other leaders seriously.
Boris does the exact same thing.
Admiration isn't something that world leaders should be engaging in.
Comments
The urgent timing of all this 'concern' is rather blatant in revealing true motivations to protect a mate, as well as misrepresenting a multi stage system.
Even Guido can see reason on it. My MP fortunate to be absent for the vote it seems.
It brings Parliament into disrepute. And devalues our democracy. Bah.
How do you define "rare"? On a given day there's approx 400 women in Scottish prisons, and on the showing of this story 12 of them, or 3% are trans. And that's the ones that have been moved, whereas it's the applications which are called "rare." Applications are necessarily at least as numerous as actual moves, unless some people are being moved forcibly.
Moving on from that, ignoring the one who has actually put hir money where hir mouth is, what would you think is a reasonable over/under number of the remaining 11 at which it is evens that they are purely taking the piss? Realistically?
I don't know why you think there is anything wrong with finding this story as funny as it is. Tell you what: I know a bloke called Declan, 24 or 25, whom I've known since he was a very pretty 13 year old girl called Emma (names changed, otherwise true) who, if I didn't believe anyway in principle in the existence of trans people and their absolute right to be trans, is so obviously a bloke that I would change my mind. I'll ask him next time I see him if it's as funny as I think it is.
Only 13 / 45 SNP
11 / 12 LD
1 / 3 PC
1 / 2 Alba
1 / 2 SDLP
2 / 6 Independent (1 / 6 Independent voted Aye)
0 / 8 DUP (1 / 8 DUP voted Aye)
So the opposition really could have won this. Its a shame none of the Opposition MPs who wanted this to be carried felt free to vote Aye instead of abstaining.
Pubs
British beer
British food
British traditions like pantomime, bonfire night, last night of the proms, etc
The countryside
Although instinctively a republican I like most of the royals and banning them would be low on my to do list
British sport
British comedy
Can I stay please?
https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1124#notrecorded
Johnson pushes because he normally gets away with it. I am aghast at this latest move and most conservative voters will be too
The amendment was signed by the man Boris beat in the leadership contest. 😂
Suspending him for a month would really not have done much and just set back his constituency work anyway, even if I would probably not have voted for the Leadsom amendment myself.
If his electors are still annoyed with him then let them vote him out at the next general election
https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1455931546960080897
EDIT: Though Keir is isolating due to Covid so that's probably behind is abstention.
If you've agreed to pair with a Tory MP (who may well be ill, on official business, or have some other reasonable basis for pairing) you cannot possibly break the pair because it looks a bit close on the day. It'd be totally dishonourable and destroy the pairing process.
There was a minor scandal a while ago when a Tory whip got a colleague to break a pair with Jo Swinson (who'd just given birth) on a tight Brexit vote. At that time, I think everyone acknowledged the whips had made a serious misjudgment and it was rightly condemned by all sides.
https://twitter.com/chrisdeerin/status/1120754951104466944?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1120754951104466944|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2019/04/24/lord-mcconnell-has-no-regrets-over-much-mocked-pinstripe-kilt/
Money Avarice Grift Assholes.
That's a wrap.
Sam Coates was reporting this morning that even many Labour MPs were privately saying they were concerned about this, so is it beyond the realm of possibility that some abstained wanting the vote to be carried but didn't think they could vote Aye due to partisan reasons?
This is after all a politics site as much as as a betting site...
I'm genuinely cross about this. I care a lot about standards and processes, and that extends to changing process through an appropriate process. That means legitimate concerns are carefully considered, not a last minute fudge whipped up by the whips.
Also, when is a 'review's not a review? As the details of the vote are predicated on already concluding not both the problem but the solution.
I'm not inclined to emotional outbursts, but despite heroic efforts at justification to elide a personal complaint with principle, this looks like a f*cking disgrace.
https://www.politico.eu/article/conservative-mp-owen-paterson-life-after-wife-suicide/
If I were a Tory MP embarrassed by the vote, could I just ask my whip to get me paired up as I have a doctors appointment/letter from my mum? Why would Labour agree to that in such numbers?
Yes if someone is really ill or something pair them up, but 50 odd paired in one day? Why should the opposition play along?
Is it really surprising that Edinburgh's private schools are thriving?
She is one of the 13 Tory MPs to vote against the amendment.
And **** me! Rob Roberts got to vote for the amendment too.
Alun Cairns, your card is marked ... again!
It’s entirely rational. The new system means in practice MPs will need govt support to escape punishment, increasing executive control. MPs have been forced to commit themselves to this. And scrutiny of the executive is further weakened. A good day’s work for the PM.
I repeat, this is not about him, or punishing him. It's about protecting the integrity of our democracy.
As a general rule, the solution for substandard MPs is to wait for the election and then get rid of them. The solution to corrupt MPs - and I am talking generally here - is to immediately go back to the electorate.
Not saying him, he may have been excused, but I wonder if anyone is considering resignation over this?
Women's GroupsFemale Prisoners
Female Prison Warders
Trans Activists
Stonewall
Oh...
One reason they named in keeping it was that they found it saved a lot of time not having the kids get changed and it was a positive for the school day so I'm not sure if they're intending to keep this permanently post-Covid or not?
Suspending him for a month really makes little difference, his constituents are his employers, let them decide to keep him or not at the next general election
Not fooled by the Government spin.
Hunt didn't just vote Aye on a three line whip.
He is one of the names printed on the amendment as a signatory proposing the amendment.
He literally helped propose the amendment, he didn't just vote for it.
With SNP also abstaining, this is a problem for the Tories, who will now be sitting as judge and jury on own MPs.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1455937867021172740
Lots of journos saying this is a problem, but this is exactly the result they wanted. Judge and jury on themselves.
The "already suffered enough" line is similarly nonsensical. Patterson has shamelessly used the tragic death of his wife to deflect from his corrupt actions before that happened. He claims the pressure of the disciplinary process contributed to her death. Nobody here can know if that is true or not. But we do know WHY there was a disciplinary process... it's because Mr Patterson repeatedly, blatantly abused his position and privileges to feather his nest. Try a similar line at sentencing in the Crown Court and see how far it gets you.
Boris Johnson is continually forgiven by folk such as yourself because he "won". The reality is the real Tory party lost. They replaced centuries of belief in good governance and statesmanship with ego driven populism and clownish tomfoolery. Britain is a laughing stock. When people talk about patriotism, think of an image of Boris Johnson and ask yourself whether any world leader takes him seriously.
Was a rather unnecessary touch.
Just because you don't, doesn't mean people like Biden are as deluded with clown metaphors as you are.
The commissioner for standards will not be resigning and will serve her full term to December 22
Let us hope that, as always, he is entirely wrong and befuddled by The Drink
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-if-wokeness-really-is-the-new-christianity-
MPs employers are their constituents and their local party, not Parliament. Parliament is there to serve MPs and Lords not the other way round.
If their local party or their constituents dislike what they are doing they can deselect them or vote them out at election time.
As I said he is not facing any criminal charges so Crown Court sentencing is not relevant
*cough* like me *cough*
However, had the suspension not be suspended he would be subject to a recall petition - so his constituents have been refused an immediate chance to make their opinion known.
Have missed the details if this has been addressed.
Biden engages in realpolitik which means taking other leaders seriously.
Boris does the exact same thing.
Admiration isn't something that world leaders should be engaging in.