It's quite interesting watching all the EU-enthusiast types flouncing away from following the politico.eu because they published an unacceptable article by unacceptable Alex Wickham, involving an alleged mistranslation of Macron's Prime Minster's (Castex?) letter to UVDL.
Lovely article by Andrew Rawnsley today in which he manages without effort to assert that the Tories are overtaxing and underspending simultaneously. A masterclass in how to write for the Guardian/Observer audience while saying nothing of any interest or use whatever.
TBF Rawnsley is usually better than this piece of egregious rubbish. But it's noticeable that this is the standard line from critics of this government at the moment.
This is, of course, because the Observer is a tax-and-spend supporting paper, Labour are the tax-and-spend party, and the Tories have driven the proverbial tanks over their flower beds. So what does Labour do? They argue for even higher taxes and/or borrowing than the Government, and end up risking Reeves being portrayed as the spiritual successor to McDonnell; they argue for lower taxes and nobody will take them seriously; or they could argue for different taxes to what the Government has proposed, but seem to lack the will to do so - especially given that the three obvious targets for heavier taxation are property wealth (largely held by the elderly, upon whom we must not shit under any circumstances,) big business (except that Labour trying to harp on about the Tories fucking business over with Brexit, and then promptly proposing to fuck business over with taxes, is somewhat difficult,) or simply throwing their hands up in the air and pledging to cricket bat most of the adult population with substantially higher rates of income tax to get public spending closer to Scandinavian levels. None of these options seems especially promising from the point of view of increasing their electability.
The Tories have successfully managed to align themselves with the position of a majority of the electorate, and especially that of the huge cohort of older votes who turn out enthusiastically, on both social and economic matters. It is small wonder that Labour is behind in the sainted opinion polls in mid-term against an administration still trying to crawl out of the mire of one of the biggest and most expensive disasters in the country's peacetime history. How do Labour get back in the game? Pray that inflation becomes a stubborn feature of the economic landscape rather than a transitory blip, I reckon. Absent that the Government looks like it should win the next election easily.
RE:inflation
It's time for the Bank of England to raise rates isn't it?
If they don't then we can right them off as Labourites?
Absolutely, we savers have been persecuted for too long with really low interest rates.
The BoE need to push interest rates up to 10% help us savers recover.
It will only help those very risk averse savers (mostly old people) who continue to keep all their money in effectively zero return savings accounts.
Effectively minus 2/3 pc surely?
Accounting for inflation, yes - and things may get worse before they get better, of course.
Negative Rates?
No, higher inflation.
Sorry, just minor trolling.
How bad does inflation have to get before they start hiking?
Money printer go brrrrrr - is going to kick in at some point.
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
The boss thing? Oh yes. Come across it a few times. Although not actually a great readacross to isam's "Sir Keir" - that's more a bit more subtle and also slightly different. Still, main thing is he stops doing it and I'm sure he will now he knows it annoys me.
Yes, the K is interesting. You'd have thought that having got it for genuine graft rather than etherea would mean it's an asset. But it isn't and some of that is down to what you say - DPP has a stasi bloodless functionary vibe to it. Bright side though is that maybe older folk like it. More respect for authority, more on the side of cops over robbers. Maybe.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
I think you are confusing two things
- The kind who pretend to be toffs but actually went to the local comp. Invariably wankers in the 1st degree. - The new Upper 10,000. "And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs, Their doors are shut in the evening; and they know no songs".
I'm not sure how you glean that I'm confusing those 2 things! That's a whole new angle you've thrown in there.
Yes, first is an example of what they call Self Invention. So you get persona not person. I don't agree it's slam dunk wankerdom but there's a massive risk of that.
I smell a Smiths lyric there but I don't know that song, The New Upper 10,000. Very good, needless to say. Morrissey's gone rancid with age but you can't take away the glory of the glory days.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
The boss thing? Oh yes. Come across it a few times. Although not actually a great readacross to isam's "Sir Keir" - that's more a bit more subtle and also slightly different. Still, main thing is he stops doing it and I'm sure he will now he knows it annoys me.
Yes, the K is interesting. You'd have thought that having got it for genuine graft rather than etherea would mean it's an asset. But it isn't and some of that is down to what you say - DPP has a stasi bloodless functionary vibe to it. Bright side though is that maybe older folk like it. More respect for authority, more on the side of cops over robbers. Maybe.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
I think you are confusing two things
- The kind who pretend to be toffs but actually went to the local comp. Invariably wankers in the 1st degree. - The new Upper 10,000. "And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs, Their doors are shut in the evening; and they know no songs".
I'm not sure how you glean that I'm confusing those 2 things! That's a whole new angle you've thrown in there.
Yes, first is an example of what they call Self Invention. So you get persona not person. I don't agree it's slam dunk wankerdom but there's a massive risk of that.
I smell a Smiths lyric there but I don't know that song, The New Upper 10,000. Very good, needless to say. Morrissey's gone rancid with age but you can't take away the glory of the glory days.
Hang the DJ?
I was looking for a job and then I got a job?
I think about life and I think about death - and neither one paricularly appeals?
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
The boss thing? Oh yes. Come across it a few times. Although not actually a great readacross to isam's "Sir Keir" - that's more a bit more subtle and also slightly different. Still, main thing is he stops doing it and I'm sure he will now he knows it annoys me.
Yes, the K is interesting. You'd have thought that having got it for genuine graft rather than etherea would mean it's an asset. But it isn't and some of that is down to what you say - DPP has a stasi bloodless functionary vibe to it. Bright side though is that maybe older folk like it. More respect for authority, more on the side of cops over robbers. Maybe.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
I think you are confusing two things
- The kind who pretend to be toffs but actually went to the local comp. Invariably wankers in the 1st degree. - The new Upper 10,000. "And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs, Their doors are shut in the evening; and they know no songs".
I'm not sure how you glean that I'm confusing those 2 things! That's a whole new angle you've thrown in there.
Yes, first is an example of what they call Self Invention. So you get persona not person. I don't agree it's slam dunk wankerdom but there's a massive risk of that.
I smell a Smith's lyric there but I don't know that song, The New Upper 10,000. Very good, needless to say. Morrissey's gone rancid with age but you can't take away the glory of the glory days.
Not actually a song. The old "upper 10,000" was a figure of speech for the old aristocracy and associated relations - think the squirearchy - every vicar being from a "good family"
The interesting thing about their modern replacements is their total certainty of their right to rule. Because they got their position through Merit. Which is the new Devine Right. Hence Cressida Dick, and it "would be unfair to damage her career" for... things she was legally in charge of. No wonder the Head Count see her as just another version of the Lord Lundy.
Yes, I know it feels so unfair. She (and her peers) have worked so hard. All those degrees, all that Common Purpose. And yet at the end... just seen as a new, inferior aristocracy. Don't the fucking bloody shit scum know how they love and care for each and every one of them?
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
Would you be happy calling me Shooter then?
"Have you ever had sex on cocaine, Nick?"
It would get *everywhere*
Up the hookers ass surely? Nice and contained.
I imagine that for you the lagershed is a corrugated iron hut in which you drink lager?
That's an interesting point you made about the 'Southern Europeans' being actually migrants to Southern European countries. Well you mentioned Portugal but I suspect the same applies to Spain etc.
I've been curious as to the large increase in employment from those countries.
Just before the pandemic, we had a cafe and a couple of food shops open in East Ham tailored to the sub-Saharan African community from the former Portuguese colonies so places like Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Mozambique etc.
I did a little research and found there were bi-lateral arrangements set up after Portugal withdrew from these areas in 1975 which enabled the citizens of these countries to apply for Portuguese citizenship.
Once in Portugal and therefore inside the EU, they could travel within the Union (as it was) and could come to Britain for work, education etc.
I presume with the coming of the pandemic and the UK no longer being part of the EU, those who had come here have left - the cafe and food shops have closed.
I do not know if a similar arrangement existed for Spain's former African colonies - there was a Spanish Morocco until the late 50s but that has reduced to just Ceuta and Melilla. In addition, there have been documented reports of African refugees seeking to reach the Canary Islands - a number unfortunately have been lost in the dangerous waters (it's roughly 60 miles from the Moroccan coast).
Most brazilians in London are here via Portugal. I think it took time, though. They must have lived in portugal for several years before turning residence in into citizenship — only citizenship gave access to freedom of movement. Compare with Ireland, which hands out citizenship not residence to descendents.
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
Would you be happy calling me Shooter then?
"Have you ever had sex on cocaine, Nick?"
It would get *everywhere*
Up the hookers ass surely? Nice and contained.
I imagine that for you the lagershed is a corrugated iron hut in which you drink lager?
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
The boss thing? Oh yes. Come across it a few times. Although not actually a great readacross to isam's "Sir Keir" - that's more a bit more subtle and also slightly different. Still, main thing is he stops doing it and I'm sure he will now he knows it annoys me.
Yes, the K is interesting. You'd have thought that having got it for genuine graft rather than etherea would mean it's an asset. But it isn't and some of that is down to what you say - DPP has a stasi bloodless functionary vibe to it. Bright side though is that maybe older folk like it. More respect for authority, more on the side of cops over robbers. Maybe.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
I think you are confusing two things
- The kind who pretend to be toffs but actually went to the local comp. Invariably wankers in the 1st degree. - The new Upper 10,000. "And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs, Their doors are shut in the evening; and they know no songs".
I'm not sure how you glean that I'm confusing those 2 things! That's a whole new angle you've thrown in there.
Yes, first is an example of what they call Self Invention. So you get persona not person. I don't agree it's slam dunk wankerdom but there's a massive risk of that.
I smell a Smith's lyric there but I don't know that song, The New Upper 10,000. Very good, needless to say. Morrissey's gone rancid with age but you can't take away the glory of the glory days.
Not actually a song. The old "upper 10,000" was a figure of speech for the old aristocracy and associated relations - think the squirearchy - every vicar being from a "good family"
The interesting thing about their modern replacements is their total certainty of their right to rule. Because they got their position through Merit. Which is the new Devine Right. Hence Cressida Dick, and it "would be unfair to damage her career" for... things she was legally in charge of. No wonder the Head Count see her as just another version of the Lord Lundy.
Yes, I know it feels so unfair. She (and her peers) have worked so hard. All those degrees, all that Common Purpose. And yet at the end... just seen as a new, inferior aristocracy. Don't the fucking bloody shit scum know how they love and care for each and every one of them?
That was one of the criticisms in ""The Rise of the Meritocracy" that invented the term, that those who succeeded would consider themselves superior. Another was the feeling that the poor deserved their failure.
It is quite a thoughtful book, which ends in an uprising against the meritocrats.
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
Would you be happy calling me Shooter then?
"Have you ever had sex on cocaine, Nick?"
It would get *everywhere*
Up the hookers ass surely? Nice and contained.
I imagine that for you the lagershed is a corrugated iron hut in which you drink lager?
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
Would you be happy calling me Shooter then?
"Have you ever had sex on cocaine, Nick?"
It would get *everywhere*
Up the hookers ass surely? Nice and contained.
Tart's arse, this isn't America.
Do they have apostrophes in America ?
Dunno, but donkeys need protection from this kind of shit.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice.
Except not wanting to be called Sir Keir in the House of Commons
BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…
At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive
Bastards.
Welcome to Brexit.
It has fuck all to do with Brexit. You really are getting desperate if you try that one. France pulled exactly the same stunt on traffic through the channel tunnel before we had even left the EU. It is just what France do.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
NOTHING about Starmer fascinates anybody because he is fundamentally fucking boring. In 50 years time being boring will perhaps be a protected characteristic and that will read as oddly as saying Starmer is useless because he is black, gay or female. Nevertheless, he is a boring person trying to do an interesting person's job, and there's no way round that
Not to be morbid, but I'd imagine if you're into that sort of thing you'd want your K conferred by HMQ rather than heirs & successors.
Why?
Not that I want one.
As I said, if you're into that sort of thing; receive from old school model of duty and rectitude and mater of the nation for almost 70 years, or chap who fantasised about being a tampon?
He will still be the King of England, and her many Dominions - Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guine, Scotland, Montserrat
And Defender of the Faith
And the direct sovereign descendant of King Alfred the Great, and William the Conqueror, and the Norse God Odin
The mystique of the British royal family will endure, I predict
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
Well there's at least a little bit of artifice. Like the claim that his father worked on the factory floor. Which he probably did, but the impression it gives is at least a little bit misleading if he actually owned the factory.
Another note though is that SKS just seems inauthentic. Maybe it's a product of having such good hair. It's the 'man at C&A' vibe. There was a photo of him and some colleagues prior to the Euro 202 final, all in football kits. And he looked stiff and uncomfortable as if he was in a totally alien environment. But the thing is, if you know a little about him, you know he actually cares deeply about football. Probably as much as Gordon Brown did. He just manages to look inauthentic even when he's doing something which should count as home territory to him. It's like those photos of him on a train. You looked at him, and your first thought was 'why has he staged a photo of himself on a train'. None of which is his fault, of course.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
NOTHING about Starmer fascinates anybody because he is fundamentally fucking boring. In 50 years time being boring will perhaps be a protected characteristic and that will read as oddly as saying Starmer is useless because he is black, gay or female. Nevertheless, he is a boring person trying to do an interesting person's job, and there's no way round that
I think I would quite like a boring person doing the PM job. Not sure why anyone thinks they need to be 'interesting'. I would just settle for competent.
BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…
At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive
Bastards.
Welcome to Brexit.
It has fuck all to do with Brexit. You really are getting desperate if you try that one. France pulled exactly the same stunt on traffic through the channel tunnel before we had even left the EU. It is just what France do.
Its what they always do. French customs were a bastard way back when, it was only the Eu and Schengen which stopped them.
Anyway, they are a sovereign country exercising control of their border. Exactly the kind of thing Charles is in favour of.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
NOTHING about Starmer fascinates anybody because he is fundamentally fucking boring. In 50 years time being boring will perhaps be a protected characteristic and that will read as oddly as saying Starmer is useless because he is black, gay or female. Nevertheless, he is a boring person trying to do an interesting person's job, and there's no way round that
I think I would quite like a boring person doing the PM job. Not sure why anyone thinks they need to be 'interesting'. I would just settle for competent.
Campaign in poetry, govern in prose is such a brilliant expression. Starmer can't do poetry. Johnson can't do prose (well, other than jokey columns full of falsehoods about square raspberries or whatever).
Looking at Labour: Reeves is not poetry. Is Philipson? She has the sing song NE accent. Maybe?
As we all seem to be keen Francophiles on here currently, some interesting polling on the Les Republicains (LR) Presidential primary on December 4th.
Currently, Bertrand leads with 45% followed by Barnier on 26% and Pecresse on 23%.
That seems to coincide with the wider Presidential polling which shows Bertrand doing best of the LR candidates but not quite able to break the Macron-Le Pen stranglehold and just behind a Zemmour candidacy.
The problem is if Zemmour doesn't run his vote seems to break back more to Le Pen so for LR, the hope must be Le Pen and Zemmour take enough of each other's vote to allow Bertrand to sneak into second place. The strategy didn't quite vote for Fillon in 2017 who finished third just behind Le Pen and just in front of Melanchon.
In a hypothetical run-off with Macron, Bertrand gets 46% so slightly better than Le Pen and Zemmour.
BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…
At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive
Bastards.
Welcome to Brexit.
It has fuck all to do with Brexit. You really are getting desperate if you try that one. France pulled exactly the same stunt on traffic through the channel tunnel before we had even left the EU. It is just what France do.
Its what they always do. French customs were a bastard way back when, it was only the Eu and Schengen which stopped them.
Anyway, they are a sovereign country exercising control of their border. Exactly the kind of thing Charles is in favour of.
There's no inconsistency in supporting countries having certain powers while being critical of what they do with them. I would have thought someone who voted for Brexit and then did nothing but complain about it would understand this.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Indeed - the farce has to stop - He should be known as SKS in the chamber or relnquish the title.
You never use people’s name in the Commons
Your average MP is a “honourable member”
A privy counsellor is a “right honourable member”
With SKS I don’t know if he would qualify as a “learned” (lawyer - but might be QC or judge not just DPP) or “gallant”… (I know it’s military but maybe a knight would count…)
[I know they’ve been dropped, but imagine calling LOTO the Right Honourable, Learned and Gallant member for Holborn and St Pancras)
The speaker refers to MPs by their name - so you're factually incorrect.
I think Bercow “modernised” things after I’d finished my degree in constitutional government
OT-ish Star Sports has a market on who will replace Laura Kuenssberg as BBC political editor. I'm staying out.
Jon Sopel 2/1 Amol Rajan 4/1 Vicki Young 4/1 Adam Fleming 6/1 Emily Maitlis 7/1 Lewis Goodall 7/1 Faisal Islam 8/1 Chris Mason 9/1 Ben Brown 11/1 Alex Forsyth 12/1 14/1 bar
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
Well there's at least a little bit of artifice. Like the claim that his father worked on the factory floor. Which he probably did, but the impression it gives is at least a little bit misleading if he actually owned the factory.
Another note though is that SKS just seems inauthentic. Maybe it's a product of having such good hair. It's the 'man at C&A' vibe. There was a photo of him and some colleagues prior to the Euro 202 final, all in football kits. And he looked stiff and uncomfortable as if he was in a totally alien environment. But the thing is, if you know a little about him, you know he actually cares deeply about football. Probably as much as Gordon Brown did. He just manages to look inauthentic even when he's doing something which should count as home territory to him. It's like those photos of him on a train. You looked at him, and your first thought was 'why has he staged a photo of himself on a train'. None of which is his fault, of course.
It's simpler, I think
Margaret Thatcher like being Margaret Thatcher John Major liked being John Major Neil Kincock clearly had some doubts about being Neil Kincock Michael Portillo really, really didn't get the whole Michale Portillo thing Tony Blair liked being Tony Blair Gordon Brown didn't really like being Gordon Brown, politician David Cameron liked being David Cameron.
etc etc
SKS comes across as not really sure about the whole SKS thing.
Surely if serious (meaningful ie with China and India and USA on board) actions are to com from this climate summit it would have been better to host it in China.that way you get buy-in more from the only country that can really do anything substantial? As Nick Palmer said yesterday China will respond if it feels it is not been bossed to by the west
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
The boss thing? Oh yes. Come across it a few times. Although not actually a great readacross to isam's "Sir Keir" - that's more a bit more subtle and also slightly different. Still, main thing is he stops doing it and I'm sure he will now he knows it annoys me.
Yes, the K is interesting. You'd have thought that having got it for genuine graft rather than etherea would mean it's an asset. But it isn't and some of that is down to what you say - DPP has a stasi bloodless functionary vibe to it. Bright side though is that maybe older folk like it. More respect for authority, more on the side of cops over robbers. Maybe.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
I think you are confusing two things
- The kind who pretend to be toffs but actually went to the local comp. Invariably wankers in the 1st degree. - The new Upper 10,000. "And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs, Their doors are shut in the evening; and they know no songs".
I'm not sure how you glean that I'm confusing those 2 things! That's a whole new angle you've thrown in there.
Yes, first is an example of what they call Self Invention. So you get persona not person. I don't agree it's slam dunk wankerdom but there's a massive risk of that.
I smell a Smith's lyric there but I don't know that song, The New Upper 10,000. Very good, needless to say. Morrissey's gone rancid with age but you can't take away the glory of the glory days.
Not actually a song. The old "upper 10,000" was a figure of speech for the old aristocracy and associated relations - think the squirearchy - every vicar being from a "good family"
The interesting thing about their modern replacements is their total certainty of their right to rule. Because they got their position through Merit. Which is the new Devine Right. Hence Cressida Dick, and it "would be unfair to damage her career" for... things she was legally in charge of. No wonder the Head Count see her as just another version of the Lord Lundy.
Yes, I know it feels so unfair. She (and her peers) have worked so hard. All those degrees, all that Common Purpose. And yet at the end... just seen as a new, inferior aristocracy. Don't the fucking bloody shit scum know how they love and care for each and every one of them?
You have a way of looking at things, I will say that. Not sure where it leads us though. Does it lead us anywhere? If so, where? This is what I'm wondering.
Surely if serious (meaningful ie with China and India and USA on board) actions are to com from this climate summit it would have been better to host it in China.that way you get buy-in more from the only country that can really do anything substantial? As Nick Palmer said yesterday China will respond if it feels it is not been bossed to by the west
I don't follow it closely, but wouldn't it require China to care about the subject? I know what you mean about being bossed by the West, but if it's people in the West making the running on the subject, that's how it will be.
It's quite interesting watching all the EU-enthusiast types flouncing away from following the politico.eu because they published an unacceptable article by unacceptable Alex Wickham, involving an alleged mistranslation of Macron's Prime Minster's (Castex?) letter to UVDL.
It is as pathetic to be bothered by Keir wanting to be known as Keir instead of Sir Keir, as it is to be bothered by Boris wanting to be known as Boris instead of Johnson.
Whatever given name people want to go by, that's up to them and I couldn't care less. Whether that be Keir, Boris, or Josephine but only on Saturdays.
Would you be happy calling me Shooter then?
"Have you ever had sex on cocaine, Nick?"
It would get *everywhere*
Up the hookers ass surely? Nice and contained.
I imagine that for you the lagershed is a corrugated iron hut in which you drink lager?
BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…
At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive
Bastards.
Welcome to Brexit.
It has fuck all to do with Brexit. You really are getting desperate if you try that one. France pulled exactly the same stunt on traffic through the channel tunnel before we had even left the EU. It is just what France do.
Its what they always do. French customs were a bastard way back when, it was only the Eu and Schengen which stopped them.
Anyway, they are a sovereign country exercising control of their border. Exactly the kind of thing Charles is in favour of.
There's no inconsistency in supporting countries having certain powers while being critical of what they do with them. I would have thought someone who voted for Brexit and then did nothing but complain about it would understand this.
I'm not complaining about foreign countries doing what we do. Its the hilarious English exceptionalism that makes me laugh most - we want to control our borders but expect foreigners not to do the same.
Today the older daughter (15) and me went out for the day. She said she was bored in E Finchley and demanded a change
So I took her, with much yawning on her part, to see the world's oldest wooden church (Greensted, in Essex).
She loved it. She loved it so much she demanded to see, afterwards, the nearby Kelvedon Hatch Nuclear Bunker, southern England's main nuclear shelter for bigwigs from 1950-1990. It is massively quirky but surprisingly fascinating
I have a charming geek daughter who, it turns out, LOVES history and politics. Yay
The day ended with us eating sandwiches in the car park of Tesco Extra in Romford, and very pleasant it was
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
Well there's at least a little bit of artifice. Like the claim that his father worked on the factory floor. Which he probably did, but the impression it gives is at least a little bit misleading if he actually owned the factory.
Another note though is that SKS just seems inauthentic. Maybe it's a product of having such good hair. It's the 'man at C&A' vibe. There was a photo of him and some colleagues prior to the Euro 202 final, all in football kits. And he looked stiff and uncomfortable as if he was in a totally alien environment. But the thing is, if you know a little about him, you know he actually cares deeply about football. Probably as much as Gordon Brown did. He just manages to look inauthentic even when he's doing something which should count as home territory to him. It's like those photos of him on a train. You looked at him, and your first thought was 'why has he staged a photo of himself on a train'. None of which is his fault, of course.
He's authentically a bit wooden. It's a handicap but it's not phoney.
Surely if serious (meaningful ie with China and India and USA on board) actions are to com from this climate summit it would have been better to host it in China.that way you get buy-in more from the only country that can really do anything substantial? As Nick Palmer said yesterday China will respond if it feels it is not been bossed to by the west
I don't follow it closely, but wouldn't it require China to care about the subject? I know what you mean about being bossed by the West, but if it's people in the West making the running on the subject, that's how it will be.
China was the country that brought in one child per family rule - Might not be directly to do with worries over climate change but is probably has helped and will continue to help for years to come with climate change control i woudl have thought
BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…
At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive
Bastards.
Welcome to Brexit.
It has fuck all to do with Brexit. You really are getting desperate if you try that one. France pulled exactly the same stunt on traffic through the channel tunnel before we had even left the EU. It is just what France do.
Its what they always do. French customs were a bastard way back when, it was only the Eu and Schengen which stopped them.
Anyway, they are a sovereign country exercising control of their border. Exactly the kind of thing Charles is in favour of.
There's no inconsistency in supporting countries having certain powers while being critical of what they do with them. I would have thought someone who voted for Brexit and then did nothing but complain about it would understand this.
I'm not complaining about foreign countries doing what we do. Its the hilarious English exceptionalism that makes me laugh most - we want to control our borders but expect foreigners not to do the same.
I feel it needs pointing out for the millionth time, but there is nothing exceptional about English exceptionalism.
It's an oddly pervasive silliness to make standard to slightly above standard national aspects or actions into supposedly egregious or unique characteristics.
That silliness is, itself, a form of exceptionalism about exceptionalism.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
NOTHING about Starmer fascinates anybody because he is fundamentally fucking boring. In 50 years time being boring will perhaps be a protected characteristic and that will read as oddly as saying Starmer is useless because he is black, gay or female. Nevertheless, he is a boring person trying to do an interesting person's job, and there's no way round that
I don't find him boring. Johnson is who bores me. He's never said a thing I've found of the remotest interest.
Today the older daughter (15) and me went out for the day. She said she was bored in E Finchley and demanded a change
So I took her, with much yawning on her part, to see the world's oldest wooden church (Greensted, in Essex).
She loved it. She loved it so much she demanded to see, afterwards, the nearby Kelvedon Hatch Nuclear Bunker, southern England's main nuclear shelter for bigwigs from 1950-1990. It is massively quirky but surprisingly fascinating
I have a charming geek daughter who, it turns out, LOVES history and politics. Yay
The day ended with us eating sandwiches in the car park of Tesco Extra in Romford, and very pleasant it was
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice.
Except not wanting to be called Sir Keir in the House of Commons
You do know Boris is called Al by friends and family?
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
NOTHING about Starmer fascinates anybody because he is fundamentally fucking boring. In 50 years time being boring will perhaps be a protected characteristic and that will read as oddly as saying Starmer is useless because he is black, gay or female. Nevertheless, he is a boring person trying to do an interesting person's job, and there's no way round that
I don't find him boring. Johnson is who bores me. He's never said a thing I've found of the remotest interest.
Today the older daughter (15) and me went out for the day. She said she was bored in E Finchley and demanded a change
So I took her, with much yawning on her part, to see the world's oldest wooden church (Greensted, in Essex).
She loved it. She loved it so much she demanded to see, afterwards, the nearby Kelvedon Hatch Nuclear Bunker, southern England's main nuclear shelter for bigwigs from 1950-1990. It is massively quirky but surprisingly fascinating
I have a charming geek daughter who, it turns out, LOVES history and politics. Yay
The day ended with us eating sandwiches in the car park of Tesco Extra in Romford, and very pleasant it was
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice.
Except not wanting to be called Sir Keir in the House of Commons
You do know Boris is called Al by friends and family?
Actually I cut out the political angle from the thread header.
There'd be some resistance from the Tory backbenchers, the likes of Brendan Clarke-Smith and Ben Bradley, who were triggered by Gareth Southgate backing the taking of the knee.
Those traitorous tapeworms stopped supporting England as a result.
Southgate is a massive Leaver and on the Labour side of the Culture War, so I cant imagine Boris would knight him. If Sir Keir becomes PM I reckon its a certainty
If Southgate wins La Coupe du monde next year then it is inevitable that Boris Johnson has to knight him given the Ramsay and Woodward precedents.
Better start encouraging his penalty takers to practise taking penalties then, hush ma big mouf.
Gareth Southgate's defining feature is getting really far in a tournament but losing the big match on penalties. He'll do it again sadly.
anything on Sky, Netflix , Amazon, Youtube or even the BBC ! that is best to watch halloween related tonight? Not into torture horror and prefer gothic horror stuff in the main
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice.
Except not wanting to be called Sir Keir in the House of Commons
You do know Boris is called Al by friends and family?
When he met the Queen, did he say, "Betty, you can call me Al"?
It's quite interesting watching all the EU-enthusiast types flouncing away from following the politico.eu because they published an unacceptable article by unacceptable Alex Wickham, involving an alleged mistranslation of Macron's Prime Minster's (Castex?) letter to UVDL.
A note to say I will no longer be using @politico as a mainstream news source in future unless it’s reporting is corroborated by a 2nd source.
The @alexwickham scandal involving doubling down on fake translation of the French Brexit/fishing issue is not respectable journalism.
lol. They are pathetic
Ironic really given this Plank had been posting months ago, based on an old report in a German newspaper, that Nissan we’re going to close their Sunderland plant within the next few days. Since then there has been further investment and the new battery JV.
Surely if serious (meaningful ie with China and India and USA on board) actions are to com from this climate summit it would have been better to host it in China.that way you get buy-in more from the only country that can really do anything substantial? As Nick Palmer said yesterday China will respond if it feels it is not been bossed to by the west
I don't follow it closely, but wouldn't it require China to care about the subject? I know what you mean about being bossed by the West, but if it's people in the West making the running on the subject, that's how it will be.
China was the country that brought in one child per family rule - Might not be directly to do with worries over climate change but is probably has helped and will continue to help for years to come with climate change control i woudl have thought
Hmm, I don't think there's much of a correlation there. Fertility rates tend to fall as countries industrialise and become wealthy. I'm not sure China would be pumping out much more CO2 if they had 250m more people.
anything on Sky, Netflix , Amazon, Youtube or even the BBC ! that is best to watch halloween related tonight? Not into torture horror and prefer gothic horror stuff in the main
Widows is watchable enough (not very halloweeny though); Channel 4, 9pm
anything on Sky, Netflix , Amazon, Youtube or even the BBC ! that is best to watch halloween related tonight? Not into torture horror and prefer gothic horror stuff in the main
It's quite interesting watching all the EU-enthusiast types flouncing away from following the politico.eu because they published an unacceptable article by unacceptable Alex Wickham, involving an alleged mistranslation of Macron's Prime Minster's (Castex?) letter to UVDL.
A note to say I will no longer be using @politico as a mainstream news source in future unless it’s reporting is corroborated by a 2nd source.
The @alexwickham scandal involving doubling down on fake translation of the French Brexit/fishing issue is not respectable journalism.
lol. They are pathetic
Ironic really given this Plank had been posting months ago, based on an old report in a German newspaper, that Nissan we’re going to close their Sunderland plant within the next few days. Since then there has been further investment and the new battery JV.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice.
Except not wanting to be called Sir Keir in the House of Commons
You do know Boris is called Al by friends and family?
No,
How come he got that nickname?
Its his name. Supposedly nobody friends or family uses "Boris", thats just his stage name.
It's quite interesting watching all the EU-enthusiast types flouncing away from following the politico.eu because they published an unacceptable article by unacceptable Alex Wickham, involving an alleged mistranslation of Macron's Prime Minster's (Castex?) letter to UVDL.
A note to say I will no longer be using @politico as a mainstream news source in future unless it’s reporting is corroborated by a 2nd source.
The @alexwickham scandal involving doubling down on fake translation of the French Brexit/fishing issue is not respectable journalism.
lol. They are pathetic
Ironic really given this Plank had been posting months ago, based on an old report in a German newspaper, that Nissan we’re going to close their Sunderland plant within the next few days. Since then there has been further investment and the new battery JV.
Plenty of Halloween tat has made it through the Felixstowe container logjam, judging by the stuff festooning so many of the houses round our way.
However, the most sinister item was a home made effort: a body wrapped in black bin bags hanging from a gibbet.
Happy Halloween indeed!
I went to a Halloween party (my first - good fun) and hastily went round to Sainsbury for suitably sinister garb. They had one left, and said their delivery had been cut by 80%.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice.
Except not wanting to be called Sir Keir in the House of Commons
You do know Boris is called Al by friends and family?
No,
How come he got that nickname?
Al is Boris's first name. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Apparently at Eton he decided he wanted to be called by his second name, Boris. Some say the whole Boris character is an invention. (Of course, it is common for all sorts of people to be known by a middle name but this usually comes from their parents. And we were discussing it yesterday in the Muslim world. Boris is different in that regard.)
You aren't meant to be happy. You're meant to be scared shitless.
I loathe halloween for many reasons. One of them, I realised today, is the synthetic quality of it. Artificial fabrics and artificial sweeteners and preservatives. Everything is artificial. If it was an alcoholic drink it would be a brightly coloured alcopop. It is definitely the ugliest of red letter days. Compare with bonfire night in five days time (hooray!) - parkin, treacle toffee, thick woolly jumpers. Beer. And explosives. A thick aura of cordite hanging in the air. Lovely.
Another reason I loathe halloween is that I have (I have realised as I have aged) not quite a phobia, but a strong aversion to cosmetics. Face paints and make up provoke a strong feeling of disgust. Which is my problem and mine alone - but it doesn't make for a happy halloween.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice.
Except not wanting to be called Sir Keir in the House of Commons
You do know Boris is called Al by friends and family?
No,
How come he got that nickname?
Al(exander) is his first name.
He started using Boris shortly after he was sacked from The Times for being a liar.
If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.
Maybe he does it just to annoy you
That would be "delusions of grandeur"
You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction: What's it to you?
I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
Tribalist wittering, then.
Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.
If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
Do people do that Boss thing?
The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".
I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty. I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
Well there's at least a little bit of artifice. Like the claim that his father worked on the factory floor. Which he probably did, but the impression it gives is at least a little bit misleading if he actually owned the factory.
Another note though is that SKS just seems inauthentic. Maybe it's a product of having such good hair. It's the 'man at C&A' vibe. There was a photo of him and some colleagues prior to the Euro 202 final, all in football kits. And he looked stiff and uncomfortable as if he was in a totally alien environment. But the thing is, if you know a little about him, you know he actually cares deeply about football. Probably as much as Gordon Brown did. He just manages to look inauthentic even when he's doing something which should count as home territory to him. It's like those photos of him on a train. You looked at him, and your first thought was 'why has he staged a photo of himself on a train'. None of which is his fault, of course.
Wtf? Who the fuck "cares deeply" about fucking football, other than complete and utter cckscking wankers? I can't think of any greater disqualification to be prime minister, other than being Jeremy Corbyn.
Did have to laugh at this, especially the climate change activist who decided he just had to take a plane to get to Glasgow because he couldn’t take the train. I guess the thought of not going at all and not contributing to the carbon footprint escaped his attention…
Wiltshire Police say they are responding to a train crash involving two trains between Andover and Salisbury - the fire and ambulance service are also present
Comments
BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…
At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive
Bastards.
How bad does inflation have to get before they start hiking?
Money printer go brrrrrr - is going to kick in at some point.
Yes, first is an example of what they call Self Invention. So you get persona not person. I don't agree it's slam dunk wankerdom but there's a massive risk of that.
I smell a Smiths lyric there but I don't know that song, The New Upper 10,000. Very good, needless to say. Morrissey's gone rancid with age but you can't take away the glory of the glory days.
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/
Do you suppose you might get detained if you give the wrong answer?
Is the Bastille still standing? Have you had a relative in there?
I was looking for a job and then I got a job?
I think about life and I think about death - and neither one paricularly appeals?
Sheila, take a bow?
The interesting thing about their modern replacements is their total certainty of their right to rule. Because they got their position through Merit. Which is the new Devine Right. Hence Cressida Dick, and it "would be unfair to damage her career" for... things she was legally in charge of. No wonder the Head Count see her as just another version of the Lord Lundy.
Yes, I know it feels so unfair. She (and her peers) have worked so hard. All those degrees, all that Common Purpose. And yet at the end... just seen as a new, inferior aristocracy. Don't the fucking bloody shit scum know how they love and care for each and every one of them?
Sorry PB mods
It is quite a thoughtful book, which ends in an uprising against the meritocrats.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lagershed&utm_source=search-action
And Defender of the Faith
And the direct sovereign descendant of King Alfred the Great, and William the Conqueror, and the Norse God Odin
The mystique of the British royal family will endure, I predict
Another note though is that SKS just seems inauthentic. Maybe it's a product of having such good hair. It's the 'man at C&A' vibe. There was a photo of him and some colleagues prior to the Euro 202 final, all in football kits. And he looked stiff and uncomfortable as if he was in a totally alien environment.
But the thing is, if you know a little about him, you know he actually cares deeply about football. Probably as much as Gordon Brown did. He just manages to look inauthentic even when he's doing something which should count as home territory to him.
It's like those photos of him on a train. You looked at him, and your first thought was 'why has he staged a photo of himself on a train'.
None of which is his fault, of course.
Anyway, they are a sovereign country exercising control of their border. Exactly the kind of thing Charles is in favour of.
Looking at Labour: Reeves is not poetry. Is Philipson? She has the sing song NE accent. Maybe?
As we all seem to be keen Francophiles on here currently, some interesting polling on the Les Republicains (LR) Presidential primary on December 4th.
Currently, Bertrand leads with 45% followed by Barnier on 26% and Pecresse on 23%.
That seems to coincide with the wider Presidential polling which shows Bertrand doing best of the LR candidates but not quite able to break the Macron-Le Pen stranglehold and just behind a Zemmour candidacy.
The problem is if Zemmour doesn't run his vote seems to break back more to Le Pen so for LR, the hope must be Le Pen and Zemmour take enough of each other's vote to allow Bertrand to sneak into second place. The strategy didn't quite vote for Fillon in 2017 who finished third just behind Le Pen and just in front of Melanchon.
In a hypothetical run-off with Macron, Bertrand gets 46% so slightly better than Le Pen and Zemmour.
That excludes Maitlis, Goodall and Islam: far too obviously left
Sopel or Rajan, and as Rajan is the BAME candidate (sorry for the usage of an outdated term) I'd say him. Rajan
Margaret Thatcher like being Margaret Thatcher
John Major liked being John Major
Neil Kincock clearly had some doubts about being Neil Kincock
Michael Portillo really, really didn't get the whole Michale Portillo thing
Tony Blair liked being Tony Blair
Gordon Brown didn't really like being Gordon Brown, politician
David Cameron liked being David Cameron.
etc etc
SKS comes across as not really sure about the whole SKS thing.
This, above all things, to thine own self......
I have the absolute right to be pissed off about it
So I took her, with much yawning on her part, to see the world's oldest wooden church (Greensted, in Essex).
She loved it. She loved it so much she demanded to see, afterwards, the nearby Kelvedon Hatch Nuclear Bunker, southern England's main nuclear shelter for bigwigs from 1950-1990. It is massively quirky but surprisingly fascinating
I have a charming geek daughter who, it turns out, LOVES history and politics. Yay
The day ended with us eating sandwiches in the car park of Tesco Extra in Romford, and very pleasant it was
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvedon_Hatch_Secret_Nuclear_Bunker
Parenting, WHEN it goes well, is probably the greatest job on earth. Of course, it nearly always doesn't go well
I’m just a modestly successful City professional
It's an oddly pervasive silliness to make standard to slightly above standard national aspects or actions into supposedly egregious or unique characteristics.
That silliness is, itself, a form of exceptionalism about exceptionalism.
How come he got that nickname?
Or your mentor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-gYOrU8bA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3Mrfut-FSw
https://www.bmstores.co.uk/search?query=halloween costumes
And probably half price tomorrow if you want to stock up for next year.
One of them, I realised today, is the synthetic quality of it. Artificial fabrics and artificial sweeteners and preservatives. Everything is artificial. If it was an alcoholic drink it would be a brightly coloured alcopop. It is definitely the ugliest of red letter days. Compare with bonfire night in five days time (hooray!) - parkin, treacle toffee, thick woolly jumpers. Beer. And explosives. A thick aura of cordite hanging in the air. Lovely.
Another reason I loathe halloween is that I have (I have realised as I have aged) not quite a phobia, but a strong aversion to cosmetics. Face paints and make up provoke a strong feeling of disgust. Which is my problem and mine alone - but it doesn't make for a happy halloween.
Catch you all tomorrow
He started using Boris shortly after he was sacked from The Times for being a liar.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59110091
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1454904171287785472
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59114569
Let’s hope it’s not serious