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Is Gareth Southgate going to follow in Sir Keir Starmer’s footsteps? – politicalbetting.com

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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited October 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    I’m flying to France tomorrow.

    BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…

    At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive

    Bastards.

    Surely you are not objecting to a sovereign country controlling its borders?
    They have the sovereign right to do it

    I have the absolute right to be pissed off about it
    Just tell them who you are, Charles.
    Why would that make a difference?

    I’m just a modestly successful City professional
    OK tell them who your mother is

    Or your mentor
    My mother is a retired teacher living in the south of England. My mentor was many things in his life, but the most important role in his own mind was as a humble servant of God.

    Still not getting why it would make a difference
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,468
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Charles said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    isam said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.

    Maybe he does it just to annoy you
    That would be "delusions of grandeur"
    You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction:
    What's it to you?
    I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
    Tribalist wittering, then.
    Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.

    If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
    Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
    Indeed - the farce has to stop - He should be known as SKS in the chamber or relnquish the title.
    You never use people’s name in the Commons

    Your average MP is a “honourable member”

    A privy counsellor is a “right honourable member”

    With SKS I don’t know if he would qualify as a “learned” (lawyer - but might be QC or judge not just DPP) or “gallant”… (I know it’s military but maybe a knight would count…)

    [I know they’ve been dropped, but imagine calling LOTO the Right Honourable, Learned and Gallant member for Holborn and St Pancras)
    The speaker refers to MPs by their name - so you're factually incorrect.
    I think Bercow “modernised” things after I’d finished my degree in constitutional government
    It was actually Michael Martin who started calling MPs by name.
    I liked them being referred to by constituency. It's a reminder of why they're there.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    "Services halted after two trains crash near Salisbury"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59114569
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    I’m flying to France tomorrow.

    BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…

    At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive

    Bastards.

    Surely you are not objecting to a sovereign country controlling its borders?
    They have the sovereign right to do it

    I have the absolute right to be pissed off about it
    Just tell them who you are, Charles.
    Why would that make a difference?

    I’m just a modestly successful City professional
    OK tell them who your mother is

    Or your mentor
    My mother is a retired teacher living in the south of England. My mentor was many things in his life, but the most important role in his own mind was as a humble servant of God.

    Still not getting why it would make a difference
    So these people are nobody special, and neither are you?

    By God, he's got it ... I think he's got it ...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Details of the train crash leaked:

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1454906747257331712/photo/1

    There was a very lucky escape on the WCML a few years ago when trains nearly collided at Watford:

    http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/landslip-causes-derailment-in-watford-tunnel-closing-west-coast-main-line/
  • Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy Halloween to all PBers.

    You aren't meant to be happy. You're meant to be scared shitless.
    I loathe halloween for many reasons.
    One of them, I realised today, is the synthetic quality of it. Artificial fabrics and artificial sweeteners and preservatives. Everything is artificial. If it was an alcoholic drink it would be a brightly coloured alcopop. It is definitely the ugliest of red letter days. Compare with bonfire night in five days time (hooray!) - parkin, treacle toffee, thick woolly jumpers. Beer. And explosives. A thick aura of cordite hanging in the air. Lovely.

    Another reason I loathe halloween is that I have (I have realised as I have aged) not quite a phobia, but a strong aversion to cosmetics. Face paints and make up provoke a strong feeling of disgust. Which is my problem and mine alone - but it doesn't make for a happy halloween.
    Whilst I quite like Halloween (although in a more slightly serious vain than the kids version) I know what you mena about face paint and face disguise in particular . I went to my sisters 90s themed birthday party some years ago and it was disconcerting to me in the extreme to talk sensibly to a doctor (sister in NHS so has a lot of medic friends) who was dressed in full Austin Powers gear including facepaint. Really offputting - Me ? I went as John Major with natural greyness being added to with a blue rosette and a tin of peas (no face paint) - Only consolation was there was a lot of spice girls there
  • anything on Sky, Netflix , Amazon, Youtube or even the BBC ! that is best to watch halloween related tonight? Not into torture horror and prefer gothic horror stuff in the main

    Probably not what you're looking for, but we've just watched Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas which is on Disney+ and is our annual traditional Halloween movie to watch with the kids.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,596

    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    I’m flying to France tomorrow.

    BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…

    At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive

    Bastards.

    Welcome to Brexit.
    It has fuck all to do with Brexit. You really are getting desperate if you try that one. France pulled exactly the same stunt on traffic through the channel tunnel before we had even left the EU. It is just what France do.
    Its what they always do. French customs were a bastard way back when, it was only the Eu and Schengen which stopped them.

    Anyway, they are a sovereign country exercising control of their border. Exactly the kind of thing Charles is in favour of.
    There's no inconsistency in supporting countries having certain powers while being critical of what they do with them. I would have thought someone who voted for Brexit and then did nothing but complain about it would understand this.
    I'm not complaining about foreign countries doing what we do. Its the hilarious English exceptionalism that makes me laugh most - we want to control our borders but expect foreigners not to do the same.
    How would you feel if we used covid as a pretext for tightening the border? In favour or against?
  • anything on Sky, Netflix , Amazon, Youtube or even the BBC ! that is best to watch halloween related tonight? Not into torture horror and prefer gothic horror stuff in the main

    Probably not what you're looking for, but we've just watched Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas which is on Disney+ and is our annual traditional Halloween movie to watch with the kids.
    Thanks - have seen that (he is a very good director ) when my daughter was younger so I will pass that
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,420
    tlg86 said:

    Details of the train crash leaked:

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1454906747257331712/photo/1

    There was a very lucky escape on the WCML a few years ago when trains nearly collided at Watford:

    http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/landslip-causes-derailment-in-watford-tunnel-closing-west-coast-main-line/

    Sounds bad. Particularly if the driver is trapped in the overturned train.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,214
    Trying to compile a header on fishing based around the title of an Emmanuelle film.

    Carry on Emmanuelle, Goodbye Emmanuelle, Emmanuelle: First Contact, and Emmanuelle Escapes from Hell seem promising.
  • ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Charles said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    isam said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.

    Maybe he does it just to annoy you
    That would be "delusions of grandeur"
    You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction:
    What's it to you?
    I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
    Tribalist wittering, then.
    Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.

    If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
    Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
    Indeed - the farce has to stop - He should be known as SKS in the chamber or relnquish the title.
    You never use people’s name in the Commons

    Your average MP is a “honourable member”

    A privy counsellor is a “right honourable member”

    With SKS I don’t know if he would qualify as a “learned” (lawyer - but might be QC or judge not just DPP) or “gallant”… (I know it’s military but maybe a knight would count…)

    [I know they’ve been dropped, but imagine calling LOTO the Right Honourable, Learned and Gallant member for Holborn and St Pancras)
    The speaker refers to MPs by their name - so you're factually incorrect.
    I think Bercow “modernised” things after I’d finished my degree in constitutional government
    It was actually Michael Martin who started calling MPs by name.
    I liked them being referred to by constituency. It's a reminder of why they're there.
    I thought Bercow did both name and constituency just to show off?
  • Leon said:

    Today the older daughter (15) and me went out for the day. She said she was bored in E Finchley and demanded a change

    So I took her, with much yawning on her part, to see the world's oldest wooden church (Greensted, in Essex).

    She loved it. She loved it so much she demanded to see, afterwards, the nearby Kelvedon Hatch Nuclear Bunker, southern England's main nuclear shelter for bigwigs from 1950-1990. It is massively quirky but surprisingly fascinating

    I have a charming geek daughter who, it turns out, LOVES history and politics. Yay

    The day ended with us eating sandwiches in the car park of Tesco Extra in Romford, and very pleasant it was

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvedon_Hatch_Secret_Nuclear_Bunker

    Parenting, WHEN it goes well, is probably the greatest job on earth. Of course, it nearly always doesn't go well

    Epping Ongar Railway was open today, you missed the Ghost Train :lol:
  • Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy Halloween to all PBers.

    You aren't meant to be happy. You're meant to be scared shitless.
    I loathe halloween for many reasons.
    One of them, I realised today, is the synthetic quality of it. Artificial fabrics and artificial sweeteners and preservatives. Everything is artificial. If it was an alcoholic drink it would be a brightly coloured alcopop. It is definitely the ugliest of red letter days. Compare with bonfire night in five days time (hooray!) - parkin, treacle toffee, thick woolly jumpers. Beer. And explosives. A thick aura of cordite hanging in the air. Lovely.

    Another reason I loathe halloween is that I have (I have realised as I have aged) not quite a phobia, but a strong aversion to cosmetics. Face paints and make up provoke a strong feeling of disgust. Which is my problem and mine alone - but it doesn't make for a happy halloween.
    Whilst I quite like Halloween (although in a more slightly serious vain than the kids version) I know what you mena about face paint and face disguise in particular . I went to my sisters 90s themed birthday party some years ago and it was disconcerting to me in the extreme to talk sensibly to a doctor (sister in NHS so has a lot of medic friends) who was dressed in full Austin Powers gear including facepaint. Really offputting - Me ? I went as John Major with natural greyness being added to with a blue rosette and a tin of peas (no face paint) - Only consolation was there was a lot of spice girls there
    Why so serious? The Joker delivered a baby in America.

    Halloween is one of my favourite holidays and I like that people have a day where they can let their imagination run wild with costumes etc if its safe and permissible to do so. Nothing offputting about it at all for me.
  • MattW said:

    Trying to compile a header on fishing based around the title of an Emmanuelle film.

    Carry on Emmanuelle, Goodbye Emmanuelle, Emmanuelle: First Contact, and Emmanuelle Escapes from Hell seem promising.

    'He's quick, he's slick, his name's a porno flick.'
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2021

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy Halloween to all PBers.

    You aren't meant to be happy. You're meant to be scared shitless.
    I loathe halloween for many reasons.
    One of them, I realised today, is the synthetic quality of it. Artificial fabrics and artificial sweeteners and preservatives. Everything is artificial. If it was an alcoholic drink it would be a brightly coloured alcopop. It is definitely the ugliest of red letter days. Compare with bonfire night in five days time (hooray!) - parkin, treacle toffee, thick woolly jumpers. Beer. And explosives. A thick aura of cordite hanging in the air. Lovely.

    Another reason I loathe halloween is that I have (I have realised as I have aged) not quite a phobia, but a strong aversion to cosmetics. Face paints and make up provoke a strong feeling of disgust. Which is my problem and mine alone - but it doesn't make for a happy halloween.
    Whilst I quite like Halloween (although in a more slightly serious vain than the kids version) I know what you mena about face paint and face disguise in particular . I went to my sisters 90s themed birthday party some years ago and it was disconcerting to me in the extreme to talk sensibly to a doctor (sister in NHS so has a lot of medic friends) who was dressed in full Austin Powers gear including facepaint. Really offputting - Me ? I went as John Major with natural greyness being added to with a blue rosette and a tin of peas (no face paint) - Only consolation was there was a lot of spice girls there
    Why so serious? The Joker delivered a baby in America.

    Halloween is one of my favourite holidays and I like that people have a day where they can let their imagination run wild with costumes etc if its safe and permissible to do so. Nothing offputting about it at all for me.
    Not sure why I dislike disguise in general - maybe a deeper inner dislike of anything not genuine and pretending to be something they are not? Its a weird feeling.

    Why so serious ? Well I just prefer serious and sometime dark things - I like the occult ,gothic fiction ,graveyards and witchcraft etc for instance. I find it fascinating without being OTT about it of course!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,025
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Details of the train crash leaked:

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1454906747257331712/photo/1

    There was a very lucky escape on the WCML a few years ago when trains nearly collided at Watford:

    http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/landslip-causes-derailment-in-watford-tunnel-closing-west-coast-main-line/

    Sounds bad. Particularly if the driver is trapped in the overturned train.
    Everyone off both trains, I have read
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,811

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy Halloween to all PBers.

    You aren't meant to be happy. You're meant to be scared shitless.
    I loathe halloween for many reasons.
    One of them, I realised today, is the synthetic quality of it. Artificial fabrics and artificial sweeteners and preservatives. Everything is artificial. If it was an alcoholic drink it would be a brightly coloured alcopop. It is definitely the ugliest of red letter days. Compare with bonfire night in five days time (hooray!) - parkin, treacle toffee, thick woolly jumpers. Beer. And explosives. A thick aura of cordite hanging in the air. Lovely.

    Another reason I loathe halloween is that I have (I have realised as I have aged) not quite a phobia, but a strong aversion to cosmetics. Face paints and make up provoke a strong feeling of disgust. Which is my problem and mine alone - but it doesn't make for a happy halloween.
    Whilst I quite like Halloween (although in a more slightly serious vain than the kids version) I know what you mena about face paint and face disguise in particular . I went to my sisters 90s themed birthday party some years ago and it was disconcerting to me in the extreme to talk sensibly to a doctor (sister in NHS so has a lot of medic friends) who was dressed in full Austin Powers gear including facepaint. Really offputting - Me ? I went as John Major with natural greyness being added to with a blue rosette and a tin of peas (no face paint) - Only consolation was there was a lot of spice girls there
    Why so serious? The Joker delivered a baby in America.

    Halloween is one of my favourite holidays and I like that people have a day where they can let their imagination run wild with costumes etc if its safe and permissible to do so. Nothing offputting about it at all for me.
    Not sure why I dislike disguise in general - maybe a deeper inner dislike of anything not genuine and pretending to be something they are not? Its a weird feeling.

    Why so serious ? Well I just prefer serious and sometime dark things - I like the occult ,gothic fiction ,graveyards and witchcraft etc for instance. I find it fascinating without being OTT about it of course!
    Me too. And as an extra factor I get a strong feeling of 'eugh' from stuff on people's faces.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,569
    I might watch the seriously scary original Halloween film tonight. Haven't seen it for about 20 years. Apparently most of the sequels are rubbish by comparison.
  • ping said:

    Train Crash;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59114569

    Let’s hope it’s not serious

    CrossCountry services diverted via Laverstock Curve (rarely used track) - wonder if that was involved.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,420

    ping said:

    Train Crash;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59114569

    Let’s hope it’s not serious

    CrossCountry services diverted via Laverstock Curve (rarely used track) - wonder if that was involved.
    Doesn't that bypass the tunnels east of the city and join the line coming in from the north? Assuming it's the curve I'm thinking of. So they would have to reverse but they could still make the station.
  • ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    Train Crash;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59114569

    Let’s hope it’s not serious

    CrossCountry services diverted via Laverstock Curve (rarely used track) - wonder if that was involved.
    Doesn't that bypass the tunnels east of the city and join the line coming in from the north? Assuming it's the curve I'm thinking of. So they would have to reverse but they could still make the station.
    Actually, belay that. Looks like Laverstock was in use yesterday, but NOT today.
  • Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Happy Halloween to all PBers.

    You aren't meant to be happy. You're meant to be scared shitless.
    I loathe halloween for many reasons.
    One of them, I realised today, is the synthetic quality of it. Artificial fabrics and artificial sweeteners and preservatives. Everything is artificial. If it was an alcoholic drink it would be a brightly coloured alcopop. It is definitely the ugliest of red letter days. Compare with bonfire night in five days time (hooray!) - parkin, treacle toffee, thick woolly jumpers. Beer. And explosives. A thick aura of cordite hanging in the air. Lovely.

    Another reason I loathe halloween is that I have (I have realised as I have aged) not quite a phobia, but a strong aversion to cosmetics. Face paints and make up provoke a strong feeling of disgust. Which is my problem and mine alone - but it doesn't make for a happy halloween.
    Whilst I quite like Halloween (although in a more slightly serious vain than the kids version) I know what you mena about face paint and face disguise in particular . I went to my sisters 90s themed birthday party some years ago and it was disconcerting to me in the extreme to talk sensibly to a doctor (sister in NHS so has a lot of medic friends) who was dressed in full Austin Powers gear including facepaint. Really offputting - Me ? I went as John Major with natural greyness being added to with a blue rosette and a tin of peas (no face paint) - Only consolation was there was a lot of spice girls there
    Why so serious? The Joker delivered a baby in America.

    Halloween is one of my favourite holidays and I like that people have a day where they can let their imagination run wild with costumes etc if its safe and permissible to do so. Nothing offputting about it at all for me.
    The Joker also went on the rampage in Tokyo today:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-59103664
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    Train Crash;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59114569

    Let’s hope it’s not serious

    CrossCountry services diverted via Laverstock Curve (rarely used track) - wonder if that was involved.
    Doesn't that bypass the tunnels east of the city and join the line coming in from the north? Assuming it's the curve I'm thinking of. So they would have to reverse but they could still make the station.
    https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/westofengland#T_SLSBRY

    1L53 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L52648/2021-10-31/detailed#allox_id=1) has run in to the back of 1F30 (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G57571/2021-10-31/detailed)
  • Some seriously high quality railway knowledge going on here - Its like Coe versus Ovett forcing each other to scale further heights of excellence
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited October 2021
    Sounds like the signalling was knocked out by the derailment:

    https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1454909476948033536

    Will be interesting to hear what's happened. Would be incredibly unlucky if there was a derailment and a SPAD, so got to believe that there's a wrong-side failure in the signalling.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,569

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.

    Maybe he does it just to annoy you
    That would be "delusions of grandeur"
    You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction:
    What's it to you?
    I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
    Tribalist wittering, then.
    Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.

    If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
    Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
    Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
    I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
    Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
    Do people do that Boss thing?

    The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
    But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
    Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".

    I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
    At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
    Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty.
    I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
    Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
    NOTHING about Starmer fascinates anybody because he is fundamentally fucking boring. In 50 years time being boring will perhaps be a protected characteristic and that will read as oddly as saying Starmer is useless because he is black, gay or female. Nevertheless, he is a boring person trying to do an interesting person's job, and there's no way round that
    I think I would quite like a boring person doing the PM job. Not sure why anyone thinks they need to be 'interesting'. I would just settle for competent.
    I thought John Major was a good PM precisely because he was boring most of the time.
  • THIS THREAD HAS BEEN TURNED INTO STONE BY A WITCH
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,420
    tlg86 said:

    Sounds like the signalling was knocked out by the derailment:

    https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1454909476948033536

    Will be interesting to hear what's happened. Would be incredibly unlucky if there was a derailment and a SPAD, so got to believe that there's a wrong-side failure in the signalling.

    If they were using an avoiding line yesterday, mights there be engineering works ongoing? In which case, coupled to the weather, they might have destabilised the approach to the tunnel and caused a landslide, that derailed the train and knocked out the signalling?

    Would explain a great many things.

    But we don't know yet. Heck, we don't even know how many people are hurt or even dead yet, although I hope Sandy is right and they have got everyone out.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,698
    IshmaelZ said:

    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    I’m flying to France tomorrow.

    BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…

    At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive

    Bastards.

    Surely you are not objecting to a sovereign country controlling its borders?
    They have the sovereign right to do it

    I have the absolute right to be pissed off about it
    Just tell them who you are, Charles.
    Why would that make a difference?

    I’m just a modestly successful City professional
    OK tell them who your mother is

    Or your mentor
    My mother is a retired teacher living in the south of England. My mentor was many things in his life, but the most important role in his own mind was as a humble servant of God.

    Still not getting why it would make a difference
    So these people are nobody special, and neither are you?

    By God, he's got it ... I think he's got it ...
    I believe he is in the Cadet branch of the family.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    Leon said:

    Today the older daughter (15) and me went out for the day. She said she was bored in E Finchley and demanded a change

    So I took her, with much yawning on her part, to see the world's oldest wooden church (Greensted, in Essex).

    She loved it. She loved it so much she demanded to see, afterwards, the nearby Kelvedon Hatch Nuclear Bunker, southern England's main nuclear shelter for bigwigs from 1950-1990. It is massively quirky but surprisingly fascinating

    I have a charming geek daughter who, it turns out, LOVES history and politics. Yay

    The day ended with us eating sandwiches in the car park of Tesco Extra in Romford, and very pleasant it was

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvedon_Hatch_Secret_Nuclear_Bunker

    Parenting, WHEN it goes well, is probably the greatest job on earth. Of course, it nearly always doesn't go well

    Did you get the Meal Deal? That's the best £3 anybody can spend.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    I’m flying to France tomorrow.

    BA has just warned me that the French have decided to quarantine the plane and test every passenger…

    At a minimum this will delay, but suspect they won’t let us in if any one on the plane tests positive

    Bastards.

    Surely you are not objecting to a sovereign country controlling its borders?
    They have the sovereign right to do it

    I have the absolute right to be pissed off about it
    Just tell them who you are, Charles.
    Why would that make a difference?

    I’m just a modestly successful City professional
    Oh. I thought you were a Baron. Something special. That just sounds mundane like me.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    JBriskin3 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    If SKS want's to just be known as Keir Starmer in the chamber he should have the good grace to relinquish his title.

    Maybe he does it just to annoy you
    That would be "delusions of grandeur"
    You're quite right. Let's go in the other direction:
    What's it to you?
    I'm anti Blair's party and fairly sure Keith is utilising loopholes so that he comes across as more common for the sake of working class votes.
    Tribalist wittering, then.
    Perhaps - But my point is valid enough.

    If you accept a title and then want drop it when you're one of the few potential candidates to be PM then something is amiss.
    Being honest about going to a private school and advertising the facthe is a knight of the realm isn't going to help Labour's efforts to contrast themselves with the Tories as out of touch posh boys though
    Labouor obsess about this too much though - The northern working class dont really give a toss , the only thing that gets their back is is faking it . If you look at Boris's biggest fans it is the nothern working class precisely because they find Boris genuine (in the sense of not trying to hide who he is ) and not patronising
    I completely agree. The contortions Sir Keir's fans twist themselves into because they are so desperate for him to be seen as legit working class are ludicrous. The plain fact is that, if you are going to sell yourselves as the other side of the coin to lofty elites, having a privately educated Knight of the Realm, best known for trying to thwart Brexit, as your front man is a tough ask
    Don't know about SKS's fans but his haters certainly go to a lot of trouble. Not easy to keep banging on about his "private school education" as if it were remotely akin to toff factory Eton, or to always always always make sure to refer to him as "Sir Keir" in best passive aggressive style, like the bloke passed over for promotion calling his erstwhile mate who got the job "boss" even when they're down the pub, but yet they seem to manage it, these people. Don't they?
    Do people do that Boss thing?

    The Sir thing underlines his apparatchik background. Is there an uncooler job in the country than DPP? He is in nominal charge of all police prosecutions including for illegal immigration, smoking the odd spliff and everything else. How does this play wiv da yoof? He is The Man. He is Mr Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.
    But the thing that really gets me is this "oiks prefer authentic toffs to upwardly mobile ex oiks". Hate that notion. I wouldn't if it didn't have some truth to it but I fear it does. In fact I know it does.
    Yes, I think there is something to that. Class privilege is well established in Britain, but there is something of a threat in an upwardly mobile person ascending to the top. It rather throws the spotlight on why the observer remains an "oik".

    I think that this is part of the reason that some PBers focus so much on proving that Starmer has benefited from privilege at school etc.
    At odds, too, with 'working class aspiration' in its Thatcherite spirit of getting on and UP. Wanting your kids to do better than you, to make that jump. With this attitude you'd rather they didn't. It's actually more in line with the trad left collectivist call of "rise WITH your class not out of it." Yet it benefits the Tories atm. Strange and messy world.
    Look, compared to the last three, maybe even the last seven labour leaders, Kier's ok. I think he's been on the wrong side of the argument on many, many times, but from my perspective that's what I'd expect of a Labour leader. But - didn't his dad own a toolmaking business? He's hardly starting out of the rough streets of Harpurhey (feel free to insert your own local equivalent). I don't object to that, of course. But accusations that people are trying to paint you as middle class when you actually are middle class feel a bit misty.
    I may be wrong about his background, but my understanding was that his background is fairly middling.
    Yep, he's from an ordinary background. Neither licking lumps of coal for supper (on a good day) nor hyper privileged product of Eton. He, like Johnson, describes his personal backstory without shame or artifice. It's utter crap to make out Johnson is "authentic" and Starmer's a fake in this regard. And I do mean that. It's not crap, it's UTTER crap. Anybody comes out with that and I know there's something amiss with their wiring. Point is, this stuff shouldn't matter but if it does it ought to be Starmer benefiting. The notion of voting for Boris Johnson because Keir Starmer isn't "proper" working class is absolutely cuckoo. It's like something out of Catch 22. And another thing I've noticed is that Johnson for some reason hatdly ever has to talk about his background. All sorts of minutae about Starmer seem to fascinate people but Johnson? Nope. No interest. No issue. Really really odd. Really really annoying. I think all this is telling us something about ourselves, something not great.
    You really are upset aren't you?
    Annoyed, as I said, and with very good reason. I recommend it.
This discussion has been closed.