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Ouch!!0
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13 pens against england without a warning.0
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True, though without even having met your cat I'd also trust it to be more honest, competent and indeed compassionate than IDS. So that still doesn't settle Ros vs Iain.HurstLlama said:
Given what happened in the early years of this century and what we now know about how banks like Chase Manhattan worked I'd trust my cat to be more honest and competent than any banker.tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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He is a Haverfordwest boy - as am I. We attended the same school - though in my day it was a Boys' Grammar School.ydoethur said:
And Hart to be the gallant loser in Caerfyrddin a Llanelli? Well, it's possible - Crabb is a Haverfordwest boy after all - but I still think it unlikely. I think we'll have to agree to differ.justin124 said:If the boundary changes go through I would expect Stephen Crabb to fight it out with Simon Hart for the residual Pembrokeshire seat.
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8 tries and lost the match!kle4 said:I wonder what the record is of most tries scored vs tries conceded and yet still winning
http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/most_tries_match_not_won.html?id=1;type=class0 -
I sorry @TSE but your signal is breaking up there ....TheScreamingEagles said:
I took no pleasure in ............. a hot poker up his arse."Sandpit said:
The language used by Tory ministers against IDS is up there with the language used against Mark Reckless. Really not on.tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
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I imagine lots of tries conceded though - this match is making me concerned on the idea of losing without conceding any!Sandpit said:
8 tries and lost the match!kle4 said:I wonder what the record is of most tries scored vs tries conceded and yet still winning
http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/most_tries_match_not_won.html?id=1;type=class0 -
That is quite a compliment on IDS in my book. I'd hate to be in the good books of the uber-sulker!TheScreamingEagles said:
Even David Davis hates him and thinks he's disloyal.0 -
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
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He does have something of the shite about him, as Anne Widdecombe might say.TheScreamingEagles said:
Even David Davis hates him and thinks he's disloyal.0 -
It is hilarious seeing the tribalism coming out.SeanT said:
Ah. If an England player is badly injured, it is the Englishman's fault.Alistair said:Horrible looking head knock for Hartley. Dreadful technique
If a referee somehow favours a team, it will somehow favour England.
Are you, perchance, Scotch?
That said I stand by my prediction, a narrow French victory, but a deserved English win for the Championship.
Owens is the best ref in the world. Hartley has the biggest heart in English Rugby. But of course England are to blame.
Especially when they win the Grand Slam....0 -
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
That's not one that appears in the pages of stats.kle4 said:
I imagine lots of tries conceded though - this match is making me concerned on the idea of losing without conceding any!Sandpit said:
8 tries and lost the match!kle4 said:I wonder what the record is of most tries scored vs tries conceded and yet still winning
http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/most_tries_match_not_won.html?id=1;type=class
Going to be a nervy last 10 mins.0 -
He went in head first. That is dreadful technique no matter what the nationality. I have a long standing dislike of Owens's reffing and his sytematic bias against France and in favour of Ireland.SeanT said:
Ah. If an England player is badly injured, it is the Englishman's fault.Alistair said:Horrible looking head knock for Hartley. Dreadful technique
If a referee somehow favours a team, it will somehow favour England.
Are you, perchance, Scotch?
That said I stand by my prediction, a narrow French victory, but a deserved English win for the Championship.0 -
David Davis was a Tory whip during Maastricht.Mortimer said:
That is quite a compliment on IDS in my book. I'd hate to be in the good books of the uber-sulker!TheScreamingEagles said:
Even David Davis hates him and thinks he's disloyal.
He got very upset at the tactics of the likes of IDS who were co-ordinating with the Labour whips to defeat the government and let them know.
David Lightbown, another Whip, who sadly is no longer with us, reportedly called IDS all sorts of name.
IDS took great pleasure in sacking David Davis as Tory Chairman when he was leader0 -
I am a Tory and was big fan of JM in as much as he was able to connect with the public more than any Tory leader since.TheScreamingEagles said:
David Davis was a Tory whip during Maastricht.Mortimer said:
That is quite a compliment on IDS in my book. I'd hate to be in the good books of the uber-sulker!TheScreamingEagles said:
Even David Davis hates him and thinks he's a disloyal bell end.
He got very upset at the tactics of the likes of IDS who were co-ordinating with the Labour whips to defeat the government and let them know.
David Lightbown, another Whip, who sadly is no longer with us, reportedly called IDS all sorts of names, that would make you think Lightbown was a Squaddie with Tourette's syndrome.
IDS took great pleasure in sacking David Davis as Tory Chairman when he was leader
But the Maastricht rebels were right.0 -
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
Thank goodness France's lineouts have not been great.0 -
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Keyboard warriors criticising international rugby player's technique is always worth a laugh - the speed at which these tackles take place is remarkable. An awful lot of what looks like poor technique is misplacement or mistiming.0
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Oh, that's going to piss off Alistair.0
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Altmann bit of a party girl.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/711309260701999104
Labour then Tory.0 -
A very decent Grand Slam for England.0
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Odd France get the first yellow given all the penalties we've conceded.0
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Corbyn led his reply to the budget with "tax cuts for the rich paid for by cuts to disability benefits" and now even IDS has been converted by his rhetoric. After all, that very morning IDS had agreed with George!tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Rubbish - he judges decisions at the speed they ought to be, not the clinical TMO slow mo technicalities.Alistair said:
Only if you dont like the laws of Rugby being applied and instead preffer Nigeball.Mortimer said:Owens is the best ref in the world.
It is a sport not a science. He is in charge, not the TMO. Most refs defer too much.0 -
Nigel Owens is the finest ref in the world.kle4 said:Odd France get the first yellow given all the penalties we've conceded.
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Grand Slam England!!!!!0
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The only fraud round here is Cameron trying to pass off his "deal" as enabling the UK to fundamentally change its relationship with the EU.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/7113054177212907520 -
Watch Ireland-France 2009 and come back to me on how good he is.Mortimer said:
Rubbish - he judges decisions at the speed they ought to be, not the clinical TMO slow mo technicalities.Alistair said:
Only if you dont like the laws of Rugby being applied and instead preffer Nigeball.Mortimer said:Owens is the best ref in the world.
It is a sport not a science. He is in charge, not the TMO. Most refs defer too much.0 -
Swing Low, Sweet Chariot
Is there anything sweeter than winning the Grand Slam in Paris?0 -
SeanT: the rogerdamus of rugby!0
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This is the last I'm going to say on this as we're going around in circles. I honestly don't know enough about the disability cuts to make a judgement either way. I suspect over the years that disability payments have gone to more and more people who probably shouldn't have had them. But then I bet the government has made the easy cuts already and these latest cuts are getting close to hurting those who genuinely need the assistance.kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
However, what has really angered me is the tax cuts Osborne has made for the rich. We cannot afford these give-aways. How can you claim that "we're all in this together" when you're cutting taxes for the higher earners yet make such a big deal about having to find savings in an area so sensitive as disability assistance?0 -
Close call, but winning the World Cup in Australia?TheScreamingEagles said:Swing Low, Sweet Chariot
Is there anything sweeter than winning the Grand Slam in Paris?
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Oh, come on, Mr.4, the all in this together schtick didn't last the first few months of Cameron's premiership. Like the Big Society is was something he said when it suited him and forgot about soon after. Cameron is forever coming out with fine sounding words, it is what he does that one needs to watch. The words and deeds seldom seem to match up.kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
Thank goodness France's lineouts have not been great.
Osborne is just Brown MkII but perhaps not quite as obviously bonkers.0 -
Hartley looked in real trouble. Hope he is ok, and recovers quickly.0
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Nah, cause they point out they've won the world cup twice in the UK.Sandpit said:
Close call, but winning the World Cup in Australia?TheScreamingEagles said:Swing Low, Sweet Chariot
Is there anything sweeter than winning the Grand Slam in Paris?0 -
Phew - and Hartley is up and laughing!SeanT said:
I am a TOTAL BLOODY moron at rugby predictions.foxinsoxuk said:SeanT: the rogerdamus of rugby!
But: YAYYYYYYYYY
This is a fantastically talented England side. Great great potential.0 -
World Cup in Australia, the home of sore losers, is clearly far sweeter.Sandpit said:
Close call, but winning the World Cup in Australia?TheScreamingEagles said:Swing Low, Sweet Chariot
Is there anything sweeter than winning the Grand Slam in Paris?
Edit: I rate the England win vs Aus in the 2007 World Cup my favourite England win as the cheating Aus scrum was annihilated in a very satisfying manner.0 -
Maastricht - the treaty which gave us an opt out from the Euro and the social chapter. Does voting against that seem like something worth ushering in the Blair era for?Mortimer said:I am a Tory and was big fan of JM in as much as he was able to connect with the public more than any Tory leader since.
But the Maastricht rebels were right.0 -
Good news on Hartley, he's sitting up and talking in the dressing room.0
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When we'd won the Ashes in Australia 2010-11 it was hilarious to see half-empty stadia; when losing Australians decided they didn't really like cricket after all....Alistair said:
World Cup in Australia, the home of sore losers, is clearly far sweeter.Sandpit said:
Close call, but winning the World Cup in Australia?TheScreamingEagles said:Swing Low, Sweet Chariot
Is there anything sweeter than winning the Grand Slam in Paris?0 -
I don't think we're going in circles - I never claimed IDS saying the budget undermined the 'we're in this together' line was wrong. I'm merely pointing out that, right or wrong, his criticisms of the budget are close to Labour attack lines (they have for years said 'all in this together' was not being lived up to and the rich were benefiting at the expense of the poor). Not identical, and he is not literally becoming a Corbynista of course. But seeing him close to their reasoning - even if only in this highly specific scenario - is amusing.tlg86 said:
This is the last I'm going to say on this as we're going around in circles. I honestly don't know enough about the disability cuts to make a judgement either way. I suspect over the years that disability payments have gone to more and more people who probably shouldn't have had them. But then I bet the government has made the easy cuts already and these latest cuts are getting close to hurting those who genuinely need the assistance.kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
However, what has really angered me is the tax cuts Osborne has made for the rich. We cannot afford these give-aways. How can you claim that "we're all in this together" when you're cutting taxes for the higher earners yet make such a big deal about having to find savings in an area so sensitive as disability assistance?0 -
If we can survive outside the Euro, we can survive outside the EU.williamglenn said:
Maastricht - the treaty which gave us an opt out from the Euro and the social chapter. Does voting against that seem like something worth ushering in the Blair era for?Mortimer said:I am a Tory and was big fan of JM in as much as he was able to connect with the public more than any Tory leader since.
But the Maastricht rebels were right.
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!0 -
What do you think.....kle4 said:
I rarely rise early enough to catch Marr, but I am curious what angle he will take - give IDS plenty of time to rattle through all his dissatisfactions, or really press him on why now, dissect how much it is principle etc.TheScreamingEagles said:IDS is on the Marr show tomorrow, this could be a barn burner
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Nah, losing to the Aussies is Ok, not nice but OK. Beating the Frogs is the Acme of rugby, beating them in Paris just adds to the pleasure.Sandpit said:
Close call, but winning the World Cup in Australia?TheScreamingEagles said:Swing Low, Sweet Chariot
Is there anything sweeter than winning the Grand Slam in Paris?0 -
As I've got older I've learnt to not be tribal - especially about politics. If IDS's lines appear to mirror the messages of Miliband and Balls then that might, just might, be because they had a point after all.kle4 said:
I don't think we're going in circles - I never claimed IDS saying the budget undermined the 'we're in this together' line was wrong. I'm merely pointing out that, right or wrong, his criticisms of the budget are close to Labour attack lines (they have for years said 'all in this together' was not being lived up to and the rich were benefiting at the expense of the poor). Not identical, and he is not literally becoming a Corbynista of course. But seeing him close to their reasoning - even if only in this highly specific scenario - is amusing.tlg86 said:
This is the last I'm going to say on this as we're going around in circles. I honestly don't know enough about the disability cuts to make a judgement either way. I suspect over the years that disability payments have gone to more and more people who probably shouldn't have had them. But then I bet the government has made the easy cuts already and these latest cuts are getting close to hurting those who genuinely need the assistance.kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
However, what has really angered me is the tax cuts Osborne has made for the rich. We cannot afford these give-aways. How can you claim that "we're all in this together" when you're cutting taxes for the higher earners yet make such a big deal about having to find savings in an area so sensitive as disability assistance?0 -
Is always nice to beat a nation of collaborators at their place.0
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I watched F1 qualifying this morning.
If there was any area of F1 that doesn't need messing with, it's qualifying. It's thrilling and comes down to the last driver in Q3 when the time runs out.
They messed with it and it's a disaster. With 3 minutes to go in Q3 there were no cars on the track, and that was that.
What were they thinking?0 -
As I clarified to tlg86, I'm not analysing whether IDS was right to suggest 'all in this together' is nonsense, or has even been pushed as a line lately. It may well be the case he was right - certainly in this instance even more people than usual thought so. I was just interjecting to point out that his resignation reasons did include ones which are close to standard Labour accusations, again, right or wrong though those accusations may be. That's funny to me, and so labeling him as a Corbynista is also amusing to be, if not many others apparently.HurstLlama said:
Oh, come on, Mr.4, the all in this together schtick didn't last the first few months of Cameron's premiership. Like the Big Society is was something he said when it suited him and forgot about soon after. Cameron is forever coming out with fine sounding words, it is what he does that one needs to watch. The words and deeds seldom seem to match up.kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
Thank goodness France's lineouts have not been great.
Osborne is just Brown MkII but perhaps not quite as obviously bonkers.0 -
Haha, nice try.williamglenn said:
Maastricht - the treaty which gave us an opt out from the Euro and the social chapter. Does voting against that seem like something worth ushering in the Blair era for?Mortimer said:I am a Tory and was big fan of JM in as much as he was able to connect with the public more than any Tory leader since.
But the Maastricht rebels were right.
Maastricht, the treaty which, if it had been rejected in the HofC, would have not been followed by the introduction of the european currency. And might well have slowed down the ridiculous european project.
The rebels didn't want us involved in the sodding social chapter, they didn't want the sodding treaty.0 -
So Dave has gone all Flashman on IDS. Is that really a shock?0
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It may be so - you're looking at someone who defended Ed M and thought he would win, voted LD in a Tory seat but did want Cameron to win in 2015, so I'm confident I'm not tribal either. Labour, even Corbyn Labour, can and will come up with good ideas. The reason his lines mirroring Labour messages to some extent is so funny to me is precisely because it's the sort of thing which drives the truly tribal nuts.tlg86 said:
As I've got older I've learnt to not be tribal - especially about politics. If IDS's lines appear to mirror the messages of Miliband and Balls then that might, just might, be because they had a point after all.kle4 said:
I don't think we're going in circles - I never claimed IDS saying the budget undermined the 'we're in this together' line was wrong. I'm merely pointing out that, right or wrong, his criticisms of the budget are close to Labour attack lines (they have for years said 'all in this together' was not being lived up to and the rich were benefiting at the expense of the poor). Not identical, and he is not literally becoming a Corbynista of course. But seeing him close to their reasoning - even if only in this highly specific scenario - is amusing.tlg86 said:
This is the last I'm going to say on this as we're going around in circles. I honestly don't know enough about the disance?kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The Maastricht rebels voted with Labour to sign us up to Social Chapter.Mortimer said:
Haha, nice try.williamglenn said:
Maastricht - the treaty which gave us an opt out from the Euro and the social chapter. Does voting against that seem like something worth ushering in the Blair era for?Mortimer said:I am a Tory and was big fan of JM in as much as he was able to connect with the public more than any Tory leader since.
But the Maastricht rebels were right.
Maastricht, the treaty which, if it had been rejected in the HofC, would have not ushered in the european currency. And might well have slowed down the ridiculous european project.
The rebels didn't want us involved in the sodding social chapter, they didn't want the sodding treaty.0 -
You'll be pleased to hear that the teams and organisers are meeting in a couple of hours to work out how they managed to screw up the one bit that worked well what they are going to do for the next race.Tim_B said:I watched F1 qualifying this morning.
If there was any area of F1 that doesn't need messing with, it's qualifying. It's thrilling and comes down to the last driver in Q3 when the time runs out.
They messed with it and it's a disaster. With 3 minutes to go in Q3 there were no cars on the track, and that was that.
What were they thinking?0 -
People vote for and oppose motions for very different reasons.TheScreamingEagles said:
The Maastricht rebels voted with Labour to sign us up to Social Chapter.Mortimer said:
Haha, nice try.williamglenn said:
Maastricht - the treaty which gave us an opt out from the Euro and the social chapter. Does voting against that seem like something worth ushering in the Blair era for?Mortimer said:I am a Tory and was big fan of JM in as much as he was able to connect with the public more than any Tory leader since.
But the Maastricht rebels were right.
Maastricht, the treaty which, if it had been rejected in the HofC, would have not ushered in the european currency. And might well have slowed down the ridiculous european project.
The rebels didn't want us involved in the sodding social chapter, they didn't want the sodding treaty.
cf the SNP.0 -
I've no idea - does he want to try to nail a a Tory leaver or maximise government embarrassment?FrancisUrquhart said:
What do you think.....kle4 said:
I rarely rise early enough to catch Marr, but I am curious what angle he will take - give IDS plenty of time to rattle through all his dissatisfactions, or really press him on why now, dissect how much it is principle etc.TheScreamingEagles said:IDS is on the Marr show tomorrow, this could be a barn burner
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What time does the F1 race actually start?0
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Fair go. I'll leave it there rather than continue my attack on Cameron and his sidekick (though as to do so would undoubtedly wind up TSE, I was tempted).kle4 said:
As I clarified to tlg86, I'm not analysing whether IDS was right to suggest 'all in this together' is nonsense, or has even been pushed as a line lately. It may well be the case he was right - certainly in this instance even more people than usual thought so. I was just interjecting to point out that his resignation reasons did include ones which are close to standard Labour accusations, again, right or wrong though those accusations may be. That's funny to me, and so labeling him as a Corbynista is also amusing to be, if not many others apparently.HurstLlama said:
Oh, come on, Mr.4, the all in this together schtick didn't last the first few months of Cameron's premiership. Like the Big Society is was something he said when it suited him and forgot about soon after. Cameron is forever coming out with fine sounding words, it is what he does that one needs to watch. The words and deeds seldom seem to match up.kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
Thank goodness France's lineouts have not been great.
Osborne is just Brown MkII but perhaps not quite as obviously bonkers.0 -
05:00GMT. 6h45' from now.FrancisUrquhart said:What time does the F1 race actually start?
Suppose some shut-eye might be a good idea. Laters.0 -
I'm going to be going all night then, as the UFC fight is schedule to finished then.Sandpit said:
05:00GMT. 6h45' from now.FrancisUrquhart said:What time does the F1 race actually start?
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Aren't the REMAINERS collaborators in the EU project?TheScreamingEagles said:Is always nice to beat a nation of collaborators at their place.
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!0 -
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We're supposed to be angry at politicians acting like politicians, and angry people acting angry a lot in this referendum and Tory civil war period.FrancisUrquhart said:So Dave has gone all Flashman on IDS. Is that really a shock?
Though it provided relief from what had becomee months of entertaining but samey Labour moping and internal battling, which is good.
The floor's yours if that's what you want - there's plenty of material for that at present!HurstLlama said:
Fair go. I'll leave it there rather than continue my attack on Cameron and his sidekickkle4 said:
As I clarHurstLlama said:
Oh, come on, Mr.4, the all in this together schtick didn't last the first few months of Cameron's premiership. Like the Big Society is was something he said when it suited him and forgot about soon after. Cameron is forever coming out with fine sounding words, it is what he does that one needs to watch. The words and deeds seldom seem to match up.kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:
Thank goodness France's lineouts have not been great.
Osborne is just Brown MkII but perhaps not quite as obviously bonkers.
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Go back to last year's rules.Sandpit said:
You'll be pleased to hear that the teams and organisers are meeting in a couple of hours to work out how they managed to screw up the one bit that worked well what they are going to do for the next race.Tim_B said:I watched F1 qualifying this morning.
If there was any area of F1 that doesn't need messing with, it's qualifying. It's thrilling and comes down to the last driver in Q3 when the time runs out.
They messed with it and it's a disaster. With 3 minutes to go in Q3 there were no cars on the track, and that was that.
What were they thinking?0 -
Unless Im badly mistaken every MP promoted in the mini reshuffle is a Remain supporter.0
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I think the problem is that you're managing to wind up the wrong people! The Cameroons will see you comparing IDS to Corbyn and think that's a win. That is, Corbyn is nuts therefore IDS is too.kle4 said:
It may be so - you're looking at someone who defended Ed M and thought he would win, voted LD in a Tory seat but did want Cameron to win in 2015, so I'm confident I'm not tribal either. Labour, even Corbyn Labour, can and will come up with good ideas. The reason his lines mirroring Labour messages to some extent is so funny to me is precisely because it's the sort of thing which drives the truly tribal nuts.tlg86 said:
As I've got older I've learnt to not be tribal - especially about politics. If IDS's lines appear to mirror the messages of Miliband and Balls then that might, just might, be because they had a point after all.kle4 said:
I don't think we're going in circles - I never claimed IDS saying the budget undermined the 'we're in this together' line was wrong. I'm merely pointing out that, right or wrong, his criticisms of the budget are close to Labour attack lines (they have for years said 'all in this together' was not being lived up to and the rich were benefiting at the expense of the poor). Not identical, and he is not literally becoming a Corbynista of course. But seeing him close to their reasoning - even if only in this highly specific scenario - is amusing.tlg86 said:
This is the last I'm going to say on this as we're going around in circles. I honestly don't know enough about the disance?kle4 said:
No, but saying that the cuts are ideological and not in the national interest, and implying the PM is not actually/currently committed to us all being in this together, is very close to the Labour attack lines of the past 6 years. Caveats he made take him away from literally saying the same thing as Corbyn, but it's close enough from a Cabinet minister to suggest in jest.tlg86 said:
Oh, so someone questions what the government is doing and that makes them a Corbynista.foxinsoxuk said:
Corbynism is breaking out all over! First IDS and now you...tlg86 said:
Given what happened in 2008 I'd go for IDS.foxinsoxuk said:
Who knows more about how to run a finance based dept though?tlg86 said:
IDS served our country in the armed forces. Ros Altman worked for Chase Manhattan. I know who I trust more.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.0 -
Well maybe - but I'll be honest, I don't really mind who gets wound up sometimestlg86 said:
I think the problem is that you're managing to wind up the wrong people! The Cameroons will see you comparing IDS to Corbyn and think that's a win. That is, Corbyn is nuts therefore IDS is too.
Given that disclosure, I hope there's no attempt to be measured or subtle in critique during the rest, otherwise it will be most disappointing.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.
Good night all.
Go England (in Rugby - otherwise I'm a go UK man first)
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On reflection it was Maastrict that got us in a situation where there was an inner Euro core that would eventually come close together and outvote us in a qualified majority on its own. Sady the Euro opt out wasn't enough to protect UKs position in EU.Mortimer said:
Haha, nice try.williamglenn said:
Maastricht - the treaty which gave us an opt out from the Euro and the social chapter. Does voting against that seem like something worth ushering in the Blair era for?Mortimer said:I am a Tory and was big fan of JM in as much as he was able to connect with the public more than any Tory leader since.
But the Maastricht rebels were right.
Maastricht, the treaty which, if it had been rejected in the HofC, would have not been followed by the introduction of the european currency. And might well have slowed down the ridiculous european project.
The rebels didn't want us involved in the sodding social chapter, they didn't want the sodding treaty.0 -
Yes, Mr. Eagles, and your point is what exactly?TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.0 -
Have you ever heard him speak about social justice TSE? Wonderful example of a politician finding his calling.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.
He went through the roof in my estimation I heard him talk at length and with intensity about it - especially with the humility that overthrow brought.0 -
When you see the rest of the thread in the morning, you'll see the point.HurstLlama said:
Yes, Mr. Eagles, and your point is what exactly?TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.0 -
What an extraordinary co-incidence.NorfolkTilIDie said:Unless Im badly mistaken every MP promoted in the mini reshuffle is a Remain supporter.
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Cameron's losing it. His outbursts of rage and hate are similar to Gordon Brown's.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.0 -
I have, saw him at a fringe event, and he's very passionate about that.Mortimer said:
Have you ever heard him speak about social justice TSE? Wonderful example of a politician finding his calling.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.
He went through the roof in my estimation I heard him talk at length and with intensity about it - especially with the humility that overthrow brought.0 -
Funny how quiet you've been concerning IDS's supposed misdemeanors all these years. The Quiet Man has finally shouted his distain out loud, and you can't stand it.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.0 -
Not really, but it is another piece of evidence of Cameron's dreadful lack of leadership skills.FrancisUrquhart said:So Dave has gone all Flashman on IDS. Is that really a shock?
He never would have got through RCB and without daddy's money he would probably now be a rather poor under-manager at somewhere like Tesco.0 -
Well said, my sentiment entirely.Mortimer said:
Have you ever heard him speak about social justice TSE? Wonderful example of a politician finding his calling.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.
He went through the roof in my estimation I heard him talk at length and with intensity about it - especially with the humility that overthrow brought.
He dedicated over a dozen years of his life to thinking through one of the most difficult subjects in government, and made huge efforts in government reforming the underlying systems. Hopefully his legacy will be a welfare system that properly incentivises work over welfare while looking after those temporarily in need.0 -
England very nearly screwed up the Grand Slam. Conceding 7 penalties is sub optimal in any game. Some of the decision making was very poor and it was only when France tired in the last 12 mins or so that the match was sewn up,
Nevertheless credit where its due , but right now I wouldn't think England could beat Australia in Australia, nor the Kiwis. but we will no doubt find out..
Great result given the ignominy of WC 20150 -
Osborne. like Gordon Brown, is just too intelligent for his own good.MonikerDiCanio said:
Cameron's losing it. His outbursts of rage and hate are similar to Gordon Brown's.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.MonikerDiCanio said:
Cameron's losing it. His outbursts of rage and hate are similar to Gordon Brown's.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.0 -
I don't usually watch Marr (Sunday is either work or lie-in for me) - tomorrow I will be setting my alarm.
I didn't like i could be more annoyed with Cameron and Osborne after the Euro-deal farce.
I now am.
I am willing the 50 letters to be sent to chairman of the '22. They're ruining the party I love.0 -
Since when did standing up for what you believe in make you a rebel?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, I've been very vocal in the past about how I regard IDS as a rebel and party leader.MikeK said:
Funny how quiet you've been concerning IDS's supposed misdemeanors all these years. The Quiet Man has finally shouted his distain out loud, and you can't stand it.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.0 -
Fixed for you.tyson said:Osborne. like Gordon Brown, is just
too intelligentthick as two short planksfor his own good....0 -
Priti Patel supporting Osborne while saying nice things about IDS is making her a promising unifier of the party.0
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When it is in opposition to the position of the ruling clique. One can be a justified and principled rebel however. On its own being a rebel doesn't necessarily make one bad, it depends what you are rebelling against and how.nigel4england said:
Since when did standing up for what you believe in make you a rebel?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, I've been very vocal in the past about how shite I regard IDS as a rebel and party leader.MikeK said:
Funny how quiet you've been concerning IDS's supposed misdemeanors all these years. The Quiet Man has finally shouted his distain out loud, and you can't stand it.TheScreamingEagles said:This is the opening to my morning thread
Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.0 -
Sadly the vote for the new Antarctic Ship seems to have been pulled; with "RRS Boaty McBoatface" leading by a country mile. It makes me proud to be British!
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/rrs-boaty-mcboatface_uk_56edbec3e4b030d552ef678a?edition=uk0 -
Completely O/T- does anyone trust tennis? Between players and gluten free diets, players bulking alarmingly up, players transformational return from injuries, and the complete and utter domination of the game by a few characters over many years so the rest have to pay their bills by fixing, and the complete lack of transparency to any kind of testing.......0
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Here comes "the Snake..."0
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England Penalties...Two words...Dan Cole...SquareRoot said:England very nearly screwed up the Grand Slam. Conceding 7 penalties is sub optimal in any game. Some of the decision making was very poor and it was only when France tired in the last 12 mins or so that the match was sewn up,
Nevertheless credit where its due , but right now I wouldn't think England could beat Australia in Australia, nor the Kiwis. but we will no doubt find out..
Great result given the ignominy of WC 20150 -
I would be amazed if there's not a few more letters winging their way to the '22 over the weekend.Mortimer said:I don't usually watch Marr (Sunday is either work or lie-in for me) - tomorrow I will be setting my alarm.
I didn't like i could be more annoyed with Cameron and Osborne after the Euro-deal farce.
I now am.
I am willing the 50 letters to be sent to chairman of the '22. They're ruining the party I love.
I said a few weeks back that the PM had lost it over the EU 'deal' and could end up facing a ballot before the referendum, the events of the past few days only confirm this line of thinking to me.0
This discussion has been closed.