politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s local by-election line-up: 3 CON defences and a L
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s local by-election line-up: 3 CON defences and a LAB one
Bottisham (Con defence) on East Cambridgeshire
Result of council at last election (2015): Conservatives 36, Liberal Democrats 2, Independent 1 (Conservative majority of 33)
Result of ward at last election (2015) : Emboldened denotes elected
Conservatives 1,100, 1,002 (52%)
Liberal Democrats 678, 634 (32%)
Labour 347, 339 (16%)
Candidates duly nominated:
Comments
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The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile0 -
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile0 -
FPT:
They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?Casino_Royale said:
I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.HYUFD said:
All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum0 -
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile0 -
Or the moon....Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile0 -
Word of the day: "Trumpertantrum" lol0
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Yes.Wanderer said:FPT:
They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?Casino_Royale said:
I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.HYUFD said:
All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum0 -
I couldn't see fewer than 40% of Conservatives voting Leave. Conservative voters will probably come closest to voters overall. That would give an overall Leave figure of 40% too.Wanderer said:FPT:
They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?Casino_Royale said:
I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.HYUFD said:
All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum
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Hannan should lead Leave. A solid performance from him on ITV earlier and he clearly knows his subject. The Europhiles were truly dreadful (3 million jobs, WW3, etc.)
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-02-04/the-last-word-february-2016/0 -
45th anniversary of Apollo XIV atm.Moses_ said:
Or the moon....Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile0 -
FPT
Justin124
"I am not a Labour Party member by the way."
Never said you were "a member" . Your man is still a total muppet though.
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@kevwodonnell: Alex Salmond's former advisor lays into the SNP's Thatcherite stance on the Scottish Rate of Income Tax. https://t.co/3wUgwt7pEL0
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WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.
UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.0 -
Someone mentioned the other day that If he makes the White House he should rename the Whitehouse as "Trump house" ........his government could be interesting though for the Iranians and others.Pulpstar said:Word of the day: "Trumpertantrum" lol
Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub.0 -
No, it would be a disaster. Remain would just have to play that footage of him deriding the NHS to some far-right American shock jock and a hidden agenda would be implied - that he wants to turn Britain into the 51st state.MP_SE said:Hannan should lead Leave. A solid performance from him on ITV earlier and he clearly knows his subject. The Europhiles were truly dreadful (3 million jobs, WW3, etc.)
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-02-04/the-last-word-february-2016/0 -
Iran has nothing to worry about with a Trump Gov't, Rubio is the man for that gig.Moses_ said:
Someone mentioned he other day that If he makes the White House he should rename the Whitehouse as Trump house ........his government could be interesting though for the Iranians.Pulpstar said:Word of the day: "Trumpertantrum" lol
Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub.0 -
Nope, the difference is exclusively caused by Tory voters and by people over 65.Sean_F said:WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.
UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.
A group strongly correlated with one another.
That's why I suggested that experiment by polling PB'ers.
Here is it:
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
Now if Phone polls are correct then that poll should show Remain leading, if Online polls are correct it should show Leave leading.
Since 80% of PB'ers are in that category of Tory voters and over 50.0 -
That's a good point.Sean_F said:WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.
UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.
I think I've said here before that both the online and phone polls are wrong, and the truth is somewhere in between, which is why I expect a 57-58% Remain result atm.0 -
Alnwick is the county town of Northumberland. Just sayin'0
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The disaster is the muzzling of virtually the whole of the Conservative Party.Stark_Dawning said:
No, it would be a disaster. Remain would just have to play that footage of him deriding the NHS to some far-right American shock jock and a hidden agenda would be implied - that he wants to turn Britain into the 51st state.MP_SE said:Hannan should lead Leave. A solid performance from him on ITV earlier and he clearly knows his subject. The Europhiles were truly dreadful (3 million jobs, WW3, etc.)
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-02-04/the-last-word-february-2016/
Hannan will lead and make the case (well) if no one else will, believe you me.
I know him.0 -
@BBCNewsnight: On Tonight's Special Newsnight on TRIDENT: Defence Secretary Michael Fallon; Shadow Defence Secretary Emily Thornberry ...
@BBCNewsnight: ... the former First Sea Lord and Security Minister Lord West; SNP Defence Spokesman Brendan O'Hara; the Green Party's Caroline Lucas ...
@BBCNewsnight: ... Labour's John Woodcock; Major General Patrick Cordingley; Former Polish Foreign Minister Secretary Radek Sikorski ... #Trident
@BBCNewsnight: ... former Clinton aide Nancy Soderberg and Security expert Professor Malcolm Chalmers #Trident0 -
On topic:
Measham is an interesting one. NWLeics was a marginal parliamentary seat taken by Labour in the 97 landslide, going back to the Tories in 2010. This is the sort of seat that Labour need to win if they ever want a majority government again.
The council has had a significant BNP vote in the not too distant past, including a County Councillor in Coalville. There are a lot of objections to HS2 in the area as the track runs through without stopping anywhere nearby. I think the UKIP vote here would mostly come from Labour.0 -
Hmm. I sat down to write a post explaining why I disagree but now that it comes to it I think you are right after all. The lack of senior ministers on the Leave side is a very severe blow isn't it?Casino_Royale said:
Yes.Wanderer said:FPT:
They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?Casino_Royale said:
I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.HYUFD said:
All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum
Well, it's a good thing I've been dithering about the odds and haven't bet on Leave yet.0 -
Judging by Rubio's debate speeches once in the White House he will invade Iran, Syria, Cuba, Russia and China.Pulpstar said:
Iran has nothing to worry about with a Trump Gov't, Rubio is the man for that gig.Moses_ said:
Someone mentioned he other day that If he makes the White House he should rename the Whitehouse as Trump house ........his government could be interesting though for the Iranians.Pulpstar said:Word of the day: "Trumpertantrum" lol
Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub.
He's more belligerent than George W.0 -
PBers are not typical voters. Quite a lot are actually members and those that aren't are way more committed and interested than the average vote.Speedy said:
Nope, the difference is exclusively caused by Tory voters and by people over 65.Sean_F said:WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.
UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.
A group strongly correlated with one another.
That's why I suggested that experiment by polling PB'ers.
Here is it:
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
Now if Phone polls are correct then that poll should show Remain leading, if Online polls are correct it should show Leave leading.
Since 80% of PB'ers are in that category of Tory voters and over 50.0 -
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.0 -
I don't want to be right. But this is a betting site.Wanderer said:
Hmm. I sat down to write a post explaining why I disagree but now that it comes to it I think you are right after all. The lack of senior ministers on the Leave side is a very severe blow isn't it?Casino_Royale said:
Yes.Wanderer said:FPT:
They seem quite sound assumptions to me. Is it the 50% of Tories that you doubt?Casino_Royale said:
I agree that, if those are your assumptions, you do indeed arrive at those figures.HYUFD said:
All you have to do is add 90%+ of UKIP voters voting Leave, at least 50% of Tories and a quarter of Labour voters and you get to 45%+ Leave minimum
Well, it's a good thing I've been dithering about the odds and haven't bet on Leave yet.0 -
The most ardent Europhiles didn't want any stuff at all.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.0 -
I've just started rewatching A Very Peculiar Practice, and I have to say that it is utterly superb0
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You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests0 -
Along with Green Wing, one of the best medical comedies.rcs1000 said:I've just started rewatching A Very Peculiar Practice, and I have to say that it is utterly superb
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So on one side Thornberry, Lucas and O'Hara, on the other side Fallon, West, Woodcock, Cordingley, Sikorski, Soderberg and Chalmers.Scott_P said:@BBCNewsnight: On Tonight's Special Newsnight on TRIDENT: Defence Secretary Michael Fallon; Shadow Defence Secretary Emily Thornberry ...
@BBCNewsnight: ... the former First Sea Lord and Security Minister Lord West; SNP Defence Spokesman Brendan O'Hara; the Green Party's Caroline Lucas ...
@BBCNewsnight: ... Labour's John Woodcock; Major General Patrick Cordingley; Former Polish Foreign Minister Secretary Radek Sikorski ... #Trident
@BBCNewsnight: ... former Clinton aide Nancy Soderberg and Security expert Professor Malcolm Chalmers #Trident
Since they already had 5 from the UK in favour of Trident why did they feel the need to invite foreigners in support of Trident, and what does an ex-polish foreign minister have to offer that the other 6 cannot?0 -
Don't think thats right. When asked if Cameron couldn't get change, majority supported leaving. The Remain majority was because people expected some reform. I know as I was one of them!!foxinsoxuk said:
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests0 -
'It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.'
But one already trailed on here by the usual suspects of course.
First we were told to expect various rabbits from the PM's hat, now we are told the whole process wasn't necessary.
Although some of the usual suspects are still claiming you can identify gains for the UK in deal, if you use an electron microscope, or believe in fairies or similar,,,
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You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.foxinsoxuk said:
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests0 -
When you have Phone polls saying that Tory voters and old people are split, and Online polls that say that Tory voters and old people are in favour of Leave by a 2-1 margin, one has to know which is which since the difference is caused by that metric.Wanderer said:
PBers are not typical voters. Quite a lot are actually members and those that aren't are way more committed and interested than the average vote.Speedy said:
Nope, the difference is exclusively caused by Tory voters and by people over 65.Sean_F said:WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.
UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.
A group strongly correlated with one another.
That's why I suggested that experiment by polling PB'ers.
Here is it:
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
Now if Phone polls are correct then that poll should show Remain leading, if Online polls are correct it should show Leave leading.
Since 80% of PB'ers are in that category of Tory voters and over 50.
Now PB'ers are both in their vast majority Tory voters and old.
That's why I suggested that experiment, too see if the Phone polls or the Online polls are correct.0 -
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtml
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.0 -
Yes, I get that. But PBers are not typical old Tory voters.Speedy said:
When you have Phone polls saying that Tory voters and old people are split, and Online polls that say that Tory voters and old people are in favour of Leave by a 2-1 margin, one has to know which is which since the difference is caused by that metric.Wanderer said:
PBers are not typical voters. Quite a lot are actually members and those that aren't are way more committed and interested than the average vote.Speedy said:
Nope, the difference is exclusively caused by Tory voters and by people over 65.Sean_F said:WRT the online v telephone polling debate, it's worth nothing that UKIP's best scores always come online and their worst by telephone. Since UKIP sub-samples are 90%+ in favour of Leave, that goes a fair way to explaining the difference between the two sets of figures.
UKIP's 13% vote share was mid-way between the telephone pollsters giving 10% or so, and online giving 16% or so.
A group strongly correlated with one another.
That's why I suggested that experiment by polling PB'ers.
Here is it:
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
Now if Phone polls are correct then that poll should show Remain leading, if Online polls are correct it should show Leave leading.
Since 80% of PB'ers are in that category of Tory voters and over 50.
Now PB'ers are both in their vast majority Tory voters and old.
That's why I suggested that experiment, too see if the Phone polls or the Online polls are correct.0 -
I'm afraid I'm with Stark D on this one.Casino_Royale said:
The disaster is the muzzling of virtually the whole of the Conservative Party.Stark_Dawning said:
No, it would be a disaster. Remain would just have to play that footage of him deriding the NHS to some far-right American shock jock and a hidden agenda would be implied - that he wants to turn Britain into the 51st state.MP_SE said:Hannan should lead Leave. A solid performance from him on ITV earlier and he clearly knows his subject. The Europhiles were truly dreadful (3 million jobs, WW3, etc.)
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2016-02-04/the-last-word-february-2016/
Hannan will lead and make the case (well) if no one else will, believe you me.
I know him.
He has the capacity to make the case very well indeed - if anyone undecided (which is the key demographic) is listening to him.
But he'd be far too easily branded an extremist, a flag-carrier for the Tea Party Tendency, a danger to dearly beloved British institutions and a heretic from our country's unofficial Bevanite religion...0 -
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.0 -
0
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'What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.'
Well, hawking cr*p used to be his job...0 -
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Funny, when I was saying for the last couple of years that Cameron was a committed Europhile all the Cameroons on here were outraged. The same people who said they wouldn't decide until they saw what he brought back and now that he has brought back nothing are saying they will vote to stay in anyway.
And they wonder why we call them hypocrites.0 -
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.0 -
Well time's up.
The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.0 -
The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
Labour signed Lisbon. Big shame only way you can vote to oppose EU is by picking a hard right or hard left group.0 -
The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
And it was Brown who stopped us going into the Euro.0 -
While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a wholeSpeedy said:Well time's up.
The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.0 -
If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.MP_SE said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Hated by whom? I doubt people will be singing "Ding dong the Dave is dead" when he dies.0 -
Labour signed Lisbon. Big shame only way you can vote to oppose EU is by picking a hard right or hard left group.NorfolkTilIDie said:
The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
TSE is teasing you0 -
And it was Brown who stopped us going into the Euro.Danny565 said:
The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
Labour are the only party out of the big two to have a manifesto pledge to take us out of the EU0 -
If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.MP_SE said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Utter and absolute bollocks by you there.0 -
The "old Tory voters" on this site are hardly more representative of old Tory voters in the country than the people round the Cabinet table. People here talk about the strength of their vote waxing and waning as though it were a prize marrow they were growing. Normal people have barely thought about it yet.Speedy said:Well time's up.
The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.0 -
@SamCoatesTimes: EXCLUSIVE - Leaked email from John Mills to Dom Cummings on Tuesday reveals new Vote Leave infighting and chaos and Labour support on brink
@SamCoatesTimes: LEAK: Kate Hoey "no longer prepared to be co-chair of Labour Leave any longer but she has been persuaded not to announce this" - big blow0 -
If PB'ers are representative of the average Tory voter and old persons then that's enough, since the difference between Phone and Online is caused entirely by that category.rcs1000 said:
While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a wholeSpeedy said:Well time's up.
The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.0 -
As I keep saying, they blatantly obviously aren't.Speedy said:
If PB'ers are representative of the average Tory voter and old persons then that's enough,rcs1000 said:
While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a wholeSpeedy said:Well time's up.
The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.0 -
@isam, sorry wasn't online, better say no bet now. TBH betting on a journalist's attire might represent a new low...0
-
I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.nigel4england said:
You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.foxinsoxuk said:
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
0 -
Utter and absolute bollocks by you there.TheScreamingEagles said:
If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.MP_SE said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Someone is forgetting about a certain dairy-loving PM
0 -
PB is representative of political obsessivesSpeedy said:
If PB'ers are representative of the average Tory voter and old persons then that's enough, since the difference between Phone and Online is caused entirely by that category.rcs1000 said:
While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a wholeSpeedy said:Well time's up.
The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.0 -
Utter and absolute bollocks by you there.TheScreamingEagles said:
If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.MP_SE said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
I should have added hated by Tories and not the wider public. His legacy will be trashed.0 -
Funny, when I was saying for the last couple of years that Cameron was a committed Europhile all the Cameroons on here were outraged. The same people who said they wouldn't decide until they saw what he brought back and now that he has brought back nothing are saying they will vote to stay in anyway.Richard_Tyndall said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
And they wonder why we call them hypocrites.
The emperors new clothes0 -
Bearing in mind that this thread purports to be about council by elections in obscure parts of England, that is a statement of the bleeding obvious!rcs1000 said:
PB is representative of political obsessivesSpeedy said:
If PB'ers are representative of the average Tory voter and old persons then that's enough, since the difference between Phone and Online is caused entirely by that category.rcs1000 said:
While I wish it wasn't true, I am not entirely sure this site is representative of the country as a wholeSpeedy said:Well time's up.
The result of the experiment has Online polls the winner.
By 74-26 Leave wins, a margin of almost 3-1, which is a little wider than the 2-1 margin Online polls have for the category of Tory voters and old people.
https://www.nojam.com/post/550
So the reality is that Tory voters are overwhelmingly in favour of Leave and the EU Ref is too close too call.0 -
What a bloody farce.Scott_P said:@SamCoatesTimes: EXCLUSIVE - Leaked email from John Mills to Dom Cummings on Tuesday reveals new Vote Leave infighting and chaos and Labour support on brink
@SamCoatesTimes: LEAK: Kate Hoey "no longer prepared to be co-chair of Labour Leave any longer but she has been persuaded not to announce this" - big blow0 -
Both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon are wonderfully talented debaters, capable of inspiring Scots not to think of boring statistics but dream about national destiny. But no amount of dreaming can change the facts. In his inaugural 2016 budget, Salmond could fire every policeman, release every prisoner, dissolve the military, remove every penny of funding for the Scottish arts and still not come fill the gap created by the missing oil money. It’s hard to think what would work. Taxing the top earners at 60 per cent would risk an exodus of talent to England.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/12141257/Imagine-the-mess-an-independent-Scotland-would-be-in-right-now.html0 -
Furry muffTissue_Price said:@isam, sorry wasn't online, better say no bet now. TBH betting on a journalist's attire might represent a new low...
Spread betting on foot and mouth deaths probably mine0 -
Hated by whom? I doubt people will be singing "Ding dong the Dave is dead" when he dies.Wanderer said:
If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.MP_SE said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
That's not going to happen but if in years to come the EU self destructs, as is likely, a new settlement will be needed by everyone0 -
The main campaign group seeking to take Britain out of the EU is in danger of losing the referendum unless “damaging and unnecessary” bickering is stopped, according to a leaked internal email.
In a sign of the bitter infighting in the Vote Leave group, one of its main supporters has accused campaign director Dominic Cummings of undermining the organisation by generating “ill feeling” among workers.
John Mills, the multi-millionaire Labour donor who is the group’s deputy chairman, said that the feuding has prompted the MP Kate Hoey to stand down as co-chair of the Labour Leave group. Hoey, who is now supporting the separate Grassroots Out (GO), has agreed not to say anything publicly about the split.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/vote-leave-deputy-chairman-condemns-damaging-bickering-mills-cummings-referendum?CMP=share_btn_tw0 -
Hated by whom? I doubt people will be singing "Ding dong the Dave is dead" when he dies.Wanderer said:
If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.MP_SE said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
It may not be those words exactly but that is certainly what the sentiment will be for many people who were previously Tory voters.0 -
New CNN/WMUR N.H. poll just out.
Trump 29 -1
Rubio 18 +7
Cruz 13 +1
Kasich 12 +3
Bush 10 +4
Christie 4 -4
At this rate Rubio is going to win N.H. even if Trump doesn't go down.0 -
I should have added hated by Tories and not the wider public. His legacy will be trashed.MP_SE said:
Utter and absolute bollocks by you there.TheScreamingEagles said:
If we vote to remain and the EU continues to lurch from crisis to crisis and fails to live up to expectations Cameron will go down as the most hated Tory leader in modern history.MP_SE said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
MP SE = MP Slightly Eccentric?0 -
Well since the only argument you have ever made on here for staying has revolved around your own personal self interest it is hardly surprising that we don't believe you when you claim to have the country's best interests at heart.foxinsoxuk said:
I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.nigel4england said:
You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.foxinsoxuk said:
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests0 -
David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates
Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12141419/David-Camerons-Brexit-comments-infuriate-Tory-activists-who-now-threaten-to-abandon-support-for-candidates.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter0 -
0
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Give me your top five reasons for wanting to stay in.foxinsoxuk said:
I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.nigel4england said:
You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.foxinsoxuk said:
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests0 -
Wow. Somebody called Jefferson Davis has +1'd a comment I made on Google+ two years ago.0
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Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll0
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I am not sure you can categorize him as representative of even the worst of the bankers...He is one weird dude...NorfolkTilIDie said:Martin Shkreli showing why everyone hates bankers:
https://youtu.be/pQ_cbhkbMx80 -
UKILTEU?TheScreamingEagles said:Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll
I'll never measure up to bjo.0 -
TSE's post at 10:17 proves my point quite nicely.SquareRoot said:
MP SE = MP Slightly Eccentric?0 -
The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
Stupid post.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates
Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12141419/David-Camerons-Brexit-comments-infuriate-Tory-activists-who-now-threaten-to-abandon-support-for-candidates.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Put one and one together and you start to feel Tories straining on the Cameron leash.TheScreamingEagles said:Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll
0 -
Needless to say if this is true (big if perhaps) then this makes me extremely happy.TheScreamingEagles said:David Cameron's Brexit comments infuriate Tory activists who now threaten to abandon support for candidates
Furious local Conservatives are threatening to turn their backs on Tory candidates in May's local elections after the Prime Minister told MPs to ignore the views of eurosceptic associations ahead of the EU referendum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12141419/David-Camerons-Brexit-comments-infuriate-Tory-activists-who-now-threaten-to-abandon-support-for-candidates.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter0 -
Hopefully will help shift the odds on remain which are languishing around 1.33.Scott_P said:@britainelects: EU referendum poll:
Remain: 36% (-2)
Leave: 45% (+3)
(via YouGov / 03 - 04 Feb)0 -
Is 'Daves influence will win it for REMAIN' the new 'NOM is free money'?0
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Access to a single marketnigel4england said:
Give me your top five reasons for wanting to stay in.foxinsoxuk said:
I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.nigel4england said:
You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.foxinsoxuk said:
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
Social protections of workers
Spreading of democracy and good governance to the other countries of Europe
A genuine feeling of solidarity and kinship with other countries with a common heritage
The ability to live and work in 28 countries without himdrance.0 -
I love Nick Soames.
He's just replied to a tweet about the Daily Mail front page
@nsoamesmp: @stephentall well certainly not the Daily Mail out of date and just plain wrong0 -
Only 3 out of those 5 may be true though and out of those 3 two of them are debatable.foxinsoxuk said:
Access to a single marketnigel4england said:
Give me your top five reasons for wanting to stay in.foxinsoxuk said:
I have many reasons to be wanting to Remain. Leavers do not have a monopoly of patriotism, and I do have the long term future of our country at heart.nigel4england said:
You want to stay in so it's easier for you to fill in a form at work, I think you should look at yourself rather than deride people who have the long term future of the country at heart.foxinsoxuk said:
You cannot discount that there was a majority for Remain even on existing terms.NorfolkTilIDie said:
It's a curious argument. That we got meagre crap from our EU partners, proving its right to stay.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile
On that note, is there anyone outside of the Tory leadership and the Remain campaign what thinks this is a substantial deal?? Even the most ardent Europhiles admit its only small stuff.
All subject to change of course, but the Leavers do have that wide eyed look of Tea Partiests
Social protections of workers
Spreading of democracy and good governance to the other countries of Europe
A genuine feeling of solidarity and kinship with other countries with a common heritage
The ability to live and work in 28 countries without himdrance.0 -
I do hope so, i have a decent sum on Leave at 4.0 ish and would be happy when the betting reverses so that I can be comfortably all green.MP_SE said:
Hopefully will help shift the odds on remain which are languishing around 1.33.Scott_P said:@britainelects: EU referendum poll:
Remain: 36% (-2)
Leave: 45% (+3)
(via YouGov / 03 - 04 Feb)
0 -
Hopefully, the European leaders will say "they are leaving anyway - fuck 'em. Take the deal off the table..."TheScreamingEagles said:Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll
0 -
Dominic Cummings does seem to be a bit of a problem.TheScreamingEagles said:The main campaign group seeking to take Britain out of the EU is in danger of losing the referendum unless “damaging and unnecessary” bickering is stopped, according to a leaked internal email.
In a sign of the bitter infighting in the Vote Leave group, one of its main supporters has accused campaign director Dominic Cummings of undermining the organisation by generating “ill feeling” among workers.
John Mills, the multi-millionaire Labour donor who is the group’s deputy chairman, said that the feuding has prompted the MP Kate Hoey to stand down as co-chair of the Labour Leave group. Hoey, who is now supporting the separate Grassroots Out (GO), has agreed not to say anything publicly about the split.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/vote-leave-deputy-chairman-condemns-damaging-bickering-mills-cummings-referendum?CMP=share_btn_tw
I can't believe the level of childish infighting and petulance on the crucial vote for the whole nation's future; one they've been waiting for decades.0 -
It's all Farage's fault. Oh, hang on...TheScreamingEagles said:Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll
0 -
'Stupid post.'
Actually I think TSE is at least half right. Cameron's current con is certainly on a par with Heath's sell-out and Major's betrayal over Maastricht. Most of the worst surrenders over Europe have occurred under 'Conservative' governments.
I had thought the party had learned its lesson, but it seems the leadership and I'm afraid most of the MPs just can't be trusted.0 -
Stupid post.Casino_Royale said:
The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
Factual though.
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.0 -
That's a good start. I'd have hoped for even more, but I'll take it.Scott_P said:@britainelects: EU referendum poll:
Remain: 36% (-2)
Leave: 45% (+3)
(via YouGov / 03 - 04 Feb)0 -
He's on QT isn't he?AndyJS said:
It's all Farage's fault. Oh, hang on...TheScreamingEagles said:Record lead for Leave in YouGov/Times poll
Peak LEAVE0 -
Factual though.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stupid post.Casino_Royale said:
The Tory Party is the true Pro EU party.TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/456346/david-cameronand39s-eu-gear-change-sets-him-far-apart-from-his-tory-predecessors.thtmlDanny565 said:
You won't like this article much more eitherCasino_Royale said:
Articles calling Dave "the accidental europhile", and saying this vindicates what pro-Europeans have been saying for years, really really aren't going to help him with the internal party politics.Sean_F said:
They'd applaud him if he said he was taking the UK into the Euro.Danny565 said:The Economist applauds Cameron for making a "muscular pro-European argument":
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690029-david-camerons-weedy-renegotiation-makes-muscular-pro-european-argument-accidental?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/TheaccidentalEurophile calling Cameron the most pro-European Tory leader since Heath:
With a resolute flourish the Prime Minister declared that under his new terms he "sure would" have been keen to join the EU if the UK was not currently a member. As if to reiterate the point Cameron promised to make the case with "passion" in the coming months, again with the ritualistic qualification that he still has to negotiate his way through next month’s EU summit.
There is no inevitability about such a level of prime ministerial commitment. In 1975 the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, kept the lowest of low profiles during the In/Out referendum he had called. Wilson was virtually nowhere. Cameron will be ubiquitous.
What was so unusual was to hear a Conservative leader make a ringing endorsement for UK’s membership of the EU, or as Cameron will continue to put it, "a reformed EU". In a very different context he will be the first Conservative leader to make this case with "passion" since Edward Heath.
Heath took us in, Thatcher signed the Single European Act, and Dave might be the one that keeps us in for a generation.
I'm in a mood tonight, so you're all going to feel my acidic tongue tonight.
Came home to a letter saying I'm at real risk of losing my sight.
Crikey. That's terrible news. Puts all the politics and betting into perspective.0
