Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Trump does win tonight in Iowa he’ll go into New Hampshi

24

Comments

  • Options
    Mr. Royale, I rarely bet on things that are odds-on. :p

    Mr. Pulpstar, quite. One True Voice is a false prophet.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063
    Patrick said:



    So: that means we (as in the Europeans in general) spend a few billions (or even tens of billions) on making places in the Middle East which are safe, and where there is adequate food and water.
    Erm...you are talking about us colonising chunks of the Middle East. Good luck with that. The ME is a basket case precisely because of its culture. Access to money is not their problem. Culture determines your country's living standards. Culture determines whether or not its OK to surround women and sexually abuse them. Culture determines if its good to push gays off rooftops or not. Culture decides if your people are Makers or Takers. How can we fix their broken culture?

    In the early 1970s, there was an influential paper written for the UK government about the Republic of Ireland would get progressively and permanently poorer. Their culture, which involved unbending obedience to the Catholic Church, meant that commerce and science could not prosper as it did in Protestant Northern Europe.

    It didn't work out like that.

    Anyway, The point I'm making is this:

    People respond to incentives.

    We have the wrong incentives.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,365
    The poll Plato posted suggests that Rubio is definitely worth a punt, both in Iowa and nationally (if he wins Iowa his odds will change dramatically). Not a huge punt as it's only one poll, but still.

    rcs's analysis of what we should do on refugees is really accurate IMO, and pretty much what I've been arguing for over a year. We should make peaceful countries in the region an irresistible cash offer to operate decent migrant camps with some prospect of actually making a living there while things are (we hope) sorted out. It would be a very sensible investment.

    Thoughtful piece by Tatchell on the balance between tolerating free speech and tolerating bigotry, which I think many here will agree with (still not sure what I think myself):

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/01/gay-cake-row-i-changed-my-mind-ashers-bakery-freedom-of-conscience-religion

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    No chance... there will never be mass deportations.
    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.
    Just suppose, for a moment that the current Geneva talks succeed. (I know, I know). Assad retires to a villa by the Black Sea and someone else takes over. That leaves Syria united with IS as the only remaining trouble-makers, and consequently much of Syria peaceful.
    In those circumstances, how many of the current refugees are going to go home, especially if support for rebuilding is available?
    HA HA HA HA HA. Ahhhh....
    To be fair, I suspect if you're in a camp in Sangrette, and there is almost no chance of being granted citizenship of an EU country, you might get a few takers.

    The general point made by OldKingCole is a good one.
    The supply of migrants is a curve. If we executed every single one that arrived, none would arrive. If we promised each $1m/year, then Syria would be empty. For every migrant, the risk of crossing, the likelihood success, etc., compared to the consequences of staying is a personal calculation.

    We need to make it more expensive to come to Europe, and more attractive to stay in their home country. In this way we fundamentally move the curve.

    So: that means we (as in the Europeans in general) spend a few billions (or even tens of billions) on making places in the Middle East which are safe, and where there is adequate food and water. If we could make these "Special Economic Zones", and exempt exports from there of duties. This should make these places less attractive to leave.

    We then need to make the journey less attractive by increasing border security, and by escorting boats back to their point of embarking, rather than bringing them to Europe.

    And for those who do make it, we need to make sure that a meaningful proportion are deported.

    Together these should move the curve. Will they get rid of all migrants? No. Could they meaningfully reduce them? Yes.
    Sounds a teensy weensy bit Colonial/Mandate-ish.

    The road to hell, an' all that...
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Spot on.'

    But it isn't, because as another poster has noted this essentially means a return to colonisation, which is just not going to happen.

    You can try spending money (and it would take a lot, not loose change) to radically improve the situation in these places but...

    How do you ensure it is spent sensibly - unless you spend it?

    How do you ensure there are not wars that create refugee issues and wreck economies - unless you govern?

    How do you ensure decent legal systems, property rights etc. - unless you impose them?

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    runnymede said:

    'Spot on.'

    But it isn't, because as another poster has noted this essentially means a return to colonisation, which is just not going to happen.

    You can try spending money (and it would take a lot, not loose change) to radically improve the situation in these places but...

    How do you ensure it is spent sensibly - unless you spend it?

    How do you ensure there are not wars that create refugee issues and wreck economies - unless you govern?

    How do you ensure decent legal systems, property rights etc. - unless you impose them?

    Perhaps the imperfect situation in the former Yougoslavia should be a model. They're not particularly friendly, and it's not fully solved, but there's more or less peace.
  • Options
    It look like EU negotiations now returned to most important topic:

    "He said France, in particular, was unhappy with a British proposal to allow countries outside the eurozone to call a European Council meeting to discuss key issues affecting non-euro members, believing this would amount to a veto."

    If Euro countries can override non-Euro countries then Cameron would have failed here I reckon. The ability to call a meeting is a very weak defence.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:



    So: that means we (as in the Europeans in general) spend a few billions (or even tens of billions) on making places in the Middle East which are safe, and where there is adequate food and water.
    Erm...you are talking about us colonising chunks of the Middle East. Good luck with that. The ME is a basket case precisely because of its culture. Access to money is not their problem. Culture determines your country's living standards. Culture determines whether or not its OK to surround women and sexually abuse them. Culture determines if its good to push gays off rooftops or not. Culture decides if your people are Makers or Takers. How can we fix their broken culture?
    In the early 1970s, there was an influential paper written for the UK government about the Republic of Ireland would get progressively and permanently poorer. Their culture, which involved unbending obedience to the Catholic Church, meant that commerce and science could not prosper as it did in Protestant Northern Europe.

    It didn't work out like that.

    Anyway, The point I'm making is this:

    People respond to incentives.

    We have the wrong incentives.

    I think your points about dealing with asylum seeking and migration are sound enough. I see that Austria is starting to deport migrants and Germany following suit (Times report)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,993

    The poll Plato posted suggests that Rubio is definitely worth a punt, both in Iowa and nationally (if he wins Iowa his odds will change dramatically). Not a huge punt as it's only one poll, but still.

    At under 2-1 Nick ?!
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I don't know what the Spaniards are doing, but they are doing a great job in keeping refugee numbers down. Even though crossing the Med from North Africa to Spain is a lot narrower than managing it to Greece, they got only a few thousand (who presumably just broke into the Spanish enclaves on the North African coast), against the million odd that made it to Greece.

    Greece is close to Turkey and Turkey is close to Syria. Syria is a war zone.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.

    Just suppose, for a moment that the current Geneva talks succeed. (I know, I know). Assad retires to a villa by the Black Sea and someone else takes over. That leaves Syria united with IS as the only remaining trouble-makers, and consequently much of Syria peaceful.
    In those circumstances, how many of the current refugees are going to go home, especially if support for rebuilding is available?
    HA HA HA HA HA. Ahhhh....
    To be fair, I suspect if you're in a camp in Sangrette, and there is almost no chance of being granted citizenship of an EU country, you might get a few takers.

    The general point made by OldKingCole is a good one.
    The supply of migrants is a curve. If we executed every single one that arrived, none would arrive. If we promised each $1m/year, then Syria would be empty. For every migrant, the risk of crossing, the likelihood success, etc., compared to the consequences of staying is a personal calculation.

    We need to make it more expensive to come to Europe, and more attractive to stay in their home country. In this way we fundamentally move the curve.

    So: that means we (as in the Europeans in general) spend a few billions (or even tens of billions) on making places in the Middle East which are safe, and where there is adequate food and water. If we could make these "Special Economic Zones", and exempt exports from there of duties. This should make these places less attractive to leave.

    We then need to make the journey less attractive by increasing border security, and by escorting boats back to their point of embarking, rather than bringing them to Europe.

    And for those who do make it, we need to make sure that a meaningful proportion are deported.

    Together these should move the curve. Will they get rid of all migrants? No. Could they meaningfully reduce them? Yes.
    Sounds a teensy weensy bit Colonial/Mandate-ish.

    The road to hell, an' all that...
    Yes it is.

    We're trying to create Singapore or Hong Kong in the region. Somewhere aspirational where the rule of law is paramount, and people can make money.

    Rent 10 plots of 200 square miles, each with good access to the coast. Try 10 different systems. Experiment. One of the 10 will get it right.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I don't know what the Spaniards are doing, but they are doing a great job in keeping refugee numbers down. Even though crossing the Med from North Africa to Spain is a lot narrower than managing it to Greece, they got only a few thousand (who presumably just broke into the Spanish enclaves on the North African coast), against the million odd that made it to Greece.

    Greece is close to Turkey and Turkey is close to Syria. Syria is a war zone.
    But a very large number of the refugees are actually from Morocco and Libya
  • Options

    LucyJones said:

    Latest UNHCR data on the 912k refugees arriving in Greece in last 12 months. Interesting eg less than 1/2 = Syrians https://t.co/e1bqHFmyrO

    Interesting yet unsurprising. Judging from the photos which were published of many of the migrants, it was pretty obvious that many - or even most - of them were not Syrian.

    I was very interested (and, if I'm honest, surprised) to read of the very different offending rates for Syrians versus other migrant groups:

    "The Syrian refugees intentionally welcomed by Merkel have so far proven overwhelmingly law abiding. According to a Jan. 8 police report from North Rhine-Westphalia, the western German state that includes Cologne, only 0.5 percent of Syrian migrants in the city were caught committing crimes within a year.

    By contrast, among migrants from North Africa, as many as 40 percent were caught committing crimes within a year, the report says.

    Virtually none of the North Africans arriving in Germany have proven to be genuine refugees: last year Germany granted some form of protection to just 0.19 percent of Tunisian migrants, 3.74 percent of Moroccans and 1.6 percent of Algerians."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-challenges-in-idUSKCN0V6173
    Morning all.

    Interesting analysis – looks like genuine Syrian refugees are law abiding on the whole and appreciative of the opportunity afforded them by the host country. – No surprise that illegal migrants who have shown no respect for the rule of law continue to do so. – Another reason why helping Syrians based in the Turkish and Jordanian refugee camps was a wise move.
    Syria is a relatively well advanced country with a long history compared to north Africa (?)
  • Options

    A few of the saner GOP candidates need to fall on their swords for the good of their party. Rubio looks to be the best of the non-mad, non-obnoxious offerings, so the likes of Bush and Christie need to endorse him, and do so soon.

    Meanwhile for the Dems, I'm still in the 'Draft Biden' camp.

    Only on here could a candidate that supports a no fly zone in Syria, cancelling the Iran nuclear deal and actually increasing immigration be described as sane or non-mad/non-obnoxious.

    I've noticed the GOP Establishment, no not the old Establishment of Northeastern WASPs like Nelson Rockefeller, but the professional and ideological class: the lobbyists, donors, consultants and party bureaucrats, and the elected officials they support, whose primary objective is to get Republicans into office, with little concern for ideology, are moving to Trump.

    Three Reasons.
    1) Electability: As I noted, above all, the GOP Establishment is invested in having a Republican president. While most of the Establishment believes the Hispanic vote nonsense, they do see that Trump is bringing in previously disaffected white working class voters. As Senator Orrin Hatch noted: “For us to win, we have to appeal the moderates and independents. We can’t just act like that only one point of view is the only way to go. That’s where Ted is going to have some trouble.” Trump, in contrast is doing well among moderate GOP voters and working class voters. Hatch said “I’ve come around a little bit on Trump.” He said. “I’m not so sure we’d lose if he’s our nominee because he’s appealing to people who a lot of the Republican candidates have not appealed to in the past.”

    2) Someone the GOP Establishment can work with. Bob Dole said: “He’s got the right personality and he’s kind of a deal-maker.” Craig Shirley, quoted in U.S. News & World Report, said: “Ultimately, the Washington establishment deep down—although they find Trump tacky or distasteful—they think that they ultimately can work with him.”

    3) Party Infrastructure. Lobbyist Richard Hohlt told the New York Times’ Martin, “Do they all love Trump? No. But there’s a feeling that he is not going to layer over the party or install his own person. Whereas Cruz will have his own people there.” They get to keep their jobs.

    Of course the shrill neocon voices in the media won't change but the GOP is beginning to rally round Trump.
  • Options
    Morning all,

    Not sure about Iowa not being a good predictor for Democrats. You have to go back to 1992 to find an Iowa winner who didn't go on to take the nomination. In that year someone called Clinton only got 3% in Iowa.
  • Options
    Mr. 1000, sounds a shade First Crusade, though I suspect nobody will be trying to re-found the Kingdom of Jerusalem.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,055
    I’m not sure why there should be a significant number of “emigrants” from Morocco. Thought it was reasonably prosperous.

    Can understand Iraqis and Afghans wanting out, though.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063

    Mr. 1000, sounds a shade First Crusade, though I suspect nobody will be trying to re-found the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

    I'm suggesting bribing the Jordanians (GDP $33bn) rather than invading. But sure, if you like.
  • Options
    King Cole, not as prosperous as Germany, though. Merkel's siren call has drawn those who otherwise would never have made the attempt.

    Miss Plato, that, and the 8% [of Lib Dem voters] who reckoned the Lib Dems had the best team to lead the country, makes me wonder if the yellows will go backwards in 2020.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    They found 100 people who voted LibDem in 2015????
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    Rubio has timed his surge to perfection. I'm long him for the Presidency (phew).
    Interesting. Although I am sceptical of polls for Iowa caucus. As I understand it the actual meetings involve a lot of discussion about the merits of candidates and if a candidate doesn't reach a threshold (15%?) then their voters get another chance to move to another side of the room. In small towns where voters know each other there is presumably a lot of personal discussion that goes on. I have never understood how a poll can hope to capture this.
  • Options
    There hasn't been fighting in Tartous province for a while, Latakia province is now free of fighting except for a small sliver in the NE which will likely be liberated in the next week or so. There is no reason for refugees to leave Syria to find safety.

    The Turkish government has done nothing to stop the flow of refugees and the Greek Euro-Communists continue to wave them through.
  • Options
    Mr. 1000, does Jordan have a coastline? A quick check suggests only a tiny corner of it touches the sea.

    Also, locals, to a greater or lesser extent, will make the Crusade comparison, regardless of intentions.
  • Options

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    The LDs are extinct, at what stage do we stop reporting on them and lump them in with the Others? I think from memory UKIP at 6% were still an Other. The DUP at 8 seats are an Other.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,953

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I don't know what the Spaniards are doing, but they are doing a great job in keeping refugee numbers down. Even though crossing the Med from North Africa to Spain is a lot narrower than managing it to Greece, they got only a few thousand (who presumably just broke into the Spanish enclaves on the North African coast), against the million odd that made it to Greece.

    Greece is close to Turkey and Turkey is close to Syria. Syria is a war zone.
    Much of Africa is a war zone. The Spanish have done as Robert Smithson suggests. Paying governments not to let people through or to take them back, and returning illegal immigrants
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,993
    edited February 2016

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    Interesting. Not bad numbers for all three main parties. One perhaps may have expected Corbyn's numbers to be worse.
  • Options

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    The LDs are extinct, at what stage do we stop reporting on them and lump them in with the Others? I think from memory UKIP at 6% were still an Other. The DUP at 8 seats are an Other.
    Need not be symmetric; the bar can be higher for entry than exit.
  • Options

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    The LDs are extinct, at what stage do we stop reporting on them and lump them in with the Others? I think from memory UKIP at 6% were still an Other. The DUP at 8 seats are an Other.
    Need not be symmetric; the bar can be higher for entry than exit.
    Indeed but #GE2015 was extinction level enough for the LDs. If the LDs have lost more than a third of their #GE2015 voters then they are deader than John Cleese's parrot.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    The poll Plato posted suggests that Rubio is definitely worth a punt, both in Iowa and nationally (if he wins Iowa his odds will change dramatically). Not a huge punt as it's only one poll, but still.

    At under 2-1 Nick ?!
    Well exactly. Rubio's odds should reflect the fact he's a plucky outsider, not relatively close second favourite!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.

    Just suppose, for a moment that the current Geneva talks succeed. (I know, I know). Assad retires to a villa by the Black Sea and someone else takes over. That leaves Syria united with IS as the only remaining trouble-makers, and consequently much of Syria peaceful.
    In those circumstances, how many of the current refugees are going to go home, especially if support for rebuilding is available?
    HA HA HA HA HA. Ahhhh....
    To be fair, I suspect if you're in a camp in Sangrette, and there is almost no chance of being granted citizenship of an EU country, you might get a few takers

    We need to make it more expensive to come to Europe, and more attractive to stay in their home country. In this way we fundamentally move the curve.

    So: that means we (as in the Europeans in general) spend a few billions (or even tens of billions) on making places in the Middle East which are safe, and where there is adequate food and water. If we could make these "Special Economic Zones", and exempt exports from there of duties. This should make these places less attractive to leave.

    We then need to make the journey less attractive by increasing border security, and by escorting boats back to their point of embarking, rather than bringing them to Europe.

    And for those who do make it, we need to make sure that a meaningful proportion are deported.

    Together these should move the curve. Will they get rid of all migrants? No. Could they meaningfully reduce them? Yes.
    Sounds a teensy weensy bit Colonial/Mandate-ish.

    The road to hell, an' all that...
    Yes it is.

    We're trying to create Singapore or Hong Kong in the region. Somewhere aspirational where the rule of law is paramount, and people can make money.

    Rent 10 plots of 200 square miles, each with good access to the coast. Try 10 different systems. Experiment. One of the 10 will get it right.
    Well at least it's an idea. Perhaps give them an owl also.

    I don't personally think that reviving Colonialism is going to work in any region, perhaps least of all Syria/the Levant. Apart from anything else, it would take hundreds of thousands of troops, thousands of administrators, thousands of civil contractors, blah, blah, etc, etc.

    And as we know only too well, that ain't gonna happen.
  • Options

    ... Although I am sceptical of polls for Iowa caucus. As I understand it the actual meetings involve a lot of discussion about the merits of candidates and if a candidate doesn't reach a threshold (15%?) then their voters get another chance to move to another side of the room. In small towns where voters know each other there is presumably a lot of personal discussion that goes on. I have never understood how a poll can hope to capture this.

    Historically, polls haven't captured it at all well.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,055

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    The LDs are extinct, at what stage do we stop reporting on them and lump them in with the Others? I think from memory UKIP at 6% were still an Other. The DUP at 8 seats are an Other.
    The LD’s are still winning local government seats. A net gain, admittedly of only one, in January.

    Must admit though, it will take a while to elininate all the toxic effects of coalition.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Gunslinger
    Prediction for #GE2020 if the boundary changes are implemented, Yeouch!!! https://t.co/NRgabZtWjY
  • Options
    MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    Paul 400 is big odds on betfair to win Iowa caucus.Despite all the polls I do not think is impossible as he is the sole libertarian candidate.Fiorina is the sole female candidate and 1000/1.On a given day why shouldn't the ladies decide to vote for her?Had a few quid on both.The religious vote could divide up,the establishment vote could divide up whilst Trump not doing the debate may put off people
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Gunslinger
    Prediction for #GE2020 if the boundary changes are implemented, Yeouch!!! https://t.co/NRgabZtWjY

    and also assuming the Tories get 40.4% (smelling salts on standby). Wouldn't it be more interesting to compare the nominal results of the 2015 election with the 2020 seats?
  • Options

    Gunslinger
    Prediction for #GE2020 if the boundary changes are implemented, Yeouch!!! https://t.co/NRgabZtWjY

    Dunno why it's still making the comparison with 2010. There was a GE last year IIRC.

  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I don't know what the Spaniards are doing, but they are doing a great job in keeping refugee numbers down. Even though crossing the Med from North Africa to Spain is a lot narrower than managing it to Greece, they got only a few thousand (who presumably just broke into the Spanish enclaves on the North African coast), against the million odd that made it to Greece.

    Morocco is the least failed state in North Africa, I guess. And Algeria is the second least. They both probably have a measure of control over their coastlines, unlike Libya. But there are plenty of North African immigrants in Spain nonetheless.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Gunslinger
    Prediction for #GE2020 if the boundary changes are implemented, Yeouch!!! https://t.co/NRgabZtWjY

    Dunno why it's still making the comparison with 2010. There was a GE last year IIRC.

    Really? Oh don't tell me the results! I think the polls were predicting EICIPM? :D;)
  • Options

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    The LDs are extinct, at what stage do we stop reporting on them and lump them in with the Others? I think from memory UKIP at 6% were still an Other. The DUP at 8 seats are an Other.
    The LD’s are still winning local government seats. A net gain, admittedly of only one, in January.

    Must admit though, it will take a while to elininate all the toxic effects of coalition.
    What is the raison d'etre of a third party if coalitions are toxic?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    Interesting. Not bad numbers for all three main parties. One perhaps may have expected Corbyn's numbers to be worse.
    Good try, UKIP as a 'main' party.
    How many MPs? How many MPs that don't behave like Independents?
    How may councillors gained/lost since the GE?
  • Options
    Mr. Thompson, allows people to vote without ever having to blame themselves for the actions a government takes?
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Why am I not surprised?

    SNP ministers want a system known as per capita indexation that would “protect” their future income tax revenues from the impact of Scotland having lower population growth.

    However, the Treasury has argued this would be unfair on the rest of the UK as increasing amounts of income tax raised in England would be used to fund services in Scotland despite the levy being devolved.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12132695/Nicola-Sturgeon-and-David-Cameron-urged-to-save-Scottish-powers-deal-from-collapse.html

    They will not accept a bum deal from the NASTY party and we will be back to square one with lots of people not happy with Scotland being cheated. All you ex government bu** lickers will be sent out to spread your lies again to try and save them.
    So Scotland cannot afford to raise its own income tax. What a surprise. The only arse licking going on is from you. All the time. How fragrant is Nicola's?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans. Doing some level of good is no excuse for such large scale mismanagement, arrogance and waste -there are others who would have done much more good if it hadn't been wasted on them,

    On place names, Bombay to Mumbai confuses me - the only guy I know from there calls it Bombay - as to my knowledge it isn't like the Brits renamed it from what it had been called. The city grew up around the British presence and was always called Bombay wasn't it? And it and Mumbai were local names for spaces where the city was built?

    Well Mumbai has another example. The main train station, Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus is still known to local people as VT (Victoria Terminus). No one uses the new "CST" abbreviation other than overly PC foreigners.
    The airport in Mumbai is still coded BOM too, which confuses those who don't know the history.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205

    Mr. Thompson, allows people to vote without ever having to blame themselves for the actions a government takes?

    It's certainly one of the benefits of having voted Ukip in 2015!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,055
    edited February 2016

    Britain Elects
    Yougov

    % of a parties voters who voted for them #GE2015 will vote for them again today

    CON 87%
    LAB 82%
    UKIP 82%
    LD 63%

    The LDs are extinct, at what stage do we stop reporting on them and lump them in with the Others? I think from memory UKIP at 6% were still an Other. The DUP at 8 seats are an Other.
    The LD’s are still winning local government seats. A net gain, admittedly of only one, in January.

    Must admit though, it will take a while to elininate all the toxic effects of coalition.
    What is the raison d'etre of a third party if coalitions are toxic?
    Not necessarily all, but that one was. Wasn’t a good idea for the Irish Greens, or the German FDP last time round, either.


    And, Mr D, I used that excuse for years. All went wrong after 2010, though!
  • Options
    King Cole, alas for the yellows, Cameron's warm hug ended up breaking their ribs.
  • Options
    Meanwhile: Enda Kenny is expected to announce the date of the Irish GE in a few days' time. The Irish Labour Party has been holding a party conference, and once that is out of the way it is likely that the GE will be called for 25 or 26 Feb, although it could still be the beginning of March.

    There have been a few polls since the start of a year, showing a broadly unchanged position. In the latest one, Labour were up a little at 10%, which is the crucial number at which they should begin to hold a useful number of seats; below that vote share, they would be in very big trouble indeed. Other recent polls have been less good for them. Overall, I still think a Fine Gael/Labour coalition remains the most likely outcome (quite possibly as a minority government), with a Fine Gael minority government as the next most likely. The bookies' favourite of an FG/FF coalition looks politically impractical to me.

    Details of the latest poll (with seat projections) here:

    http://adriankavanaghelections.org/2016/01/30/labouring-back-into-contention-constituency-level-analysis-of-the-sunday-business-post-red-c-opinion-poll-31st-january-2016/
  • Options
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    Cromwell said:

    Trump doesn't want tp be president ; he would be horrified if it were forced upon him ...he only entered the race to boost his TV ratings and was surprised by his own success ; he's playing it by ear , improvising as he goes , but he knows only too well that he can only ride this train so far and will then suddenly pull out and quit leaving his gormless supporters in the lurch
    He is not a politician ,; he is primarily an entertainer ..every time I see him I am reminded of some gormless WWF wrestler showboating to the crowd ...he has a very limited vocabulary and relies on repition and rude facial expressions to get his point across ; he's not even a good demagogue but is merely a comedic parody of a demagogue ; Trumpolini I presume ?

    I really don't think Trump will pull out. Why would he when he is winning?
    Is it true that he hasn't actually spent that much on his campaign (in the context of the other campaigns at least)?
    I believe so. He is a reality TV star. A motor mouth. It's a moot point just how much money he has any way. He has a brand, not a business.
    The remainder of what he owns of Trump tower is mortgaged. Other prestigious buildings he has on leasehold. Other projects he merely gets a commission for use of his name. He sells endorsements (go figure). He has mortgages on other properties. He is worth a bob or two but how much of it is in the bank as ready money to be burned on the campaign trail is debatable.
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    The LDs got whacked at the GE because they were seen as useless..no other reason..
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I believe so. He is a reality TV star. A motor mouth. It's a moot point just how much money he has any way. He has a brand, not a business.''

    Plenty of Trump hostages to fortune this morning. Here's the thing. Maybe, just maybe, Americans WANT muslims banned, illegals expelled and a giant wall built. We will soon find out.
  • Options

    King Cole, alas for the yellows, Cameron's warm hug ended up breaking their ribs.

    The true nature of the libdems eddifice was a house of cards built on sand. A mixed bag trying to appeal to everybody and which spent all its time rubbishing the govt it was part of.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited February 2016
    Dr Nyatsuro should be told to sling his hook, and get out of the UK.

    Shits like him shouldn't be welcome here.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063
    taffys said:

    ''I believe so. He is a reality TV star. A motor mouth. It's a moot point just how much money he has any way. He has a brand, not a business.''

    Plenty of Trump hostages to fortune this morning. Here's the thing. Maybe, just maybe, Americans WANT muslims banned, illegals expelled and a giant wall built. We will soon find out.

    Technically, we'll find out what about a third of Iowa GOP caucus goers want :lol:
  • Options

    ... Although I am sceptical of polls for Iowa caucus. As I understand it the actual meetings involve a lot of discussion about the merits of candidates and if a candidate doesn't reach a threshold (15%?) then their voters get another chance to move to another side of the room. In small towns where voters know each other there is presumably a lot of personal discussion that goes on. I have never understood how a poll can hope to capture this.

    Historically, polls haven't captured it at all well.
    Yes, the big question there being whether anti-Trump voters will rally around Rubio.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    malcolmg said:

    Why am I not surprised?

    SNP ministers want a system known as per capita indexation that would “protect” their future income tax revenues from the impact of Scotland having lower population growth.

    However, the Treasury has argued this would be unfair on the rest of the UK as increasing amounts of income tax raised in England would be used to fund services in Scotland despite the levy being devolved.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12132695/Nicola-Sturgeon-and-David-Cameron-urged-to-save-Scottish-powers-deal-from-collapse.html

    They will not accept a bum deal from the NASTY party and we will be back to square one with lots of people not happy with Scotland being cheated. All you ex government bu** lickers will be sent out to spread your lies again to try and save them.
    So unless rUK income tax payers continue to subsidize Scotland's devolved income tax it's a "bum deal"?

    Away with you to burn Harry Potter books....
    LOL, you can always bet the establishment types will trot out the "subsidy" lie, the Tories first chant when caught with hand in the cookie jar. Like all litigious rich they try to throw their weight about , just because you are rich does not mean you are any different from your average bully.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063

    ... Although I am sceptical of polls for Iowa caucus. As I understand it the actual meetings involve a lot of discussion about the merits of candidates and if a candidate doesn't reach a threshold (15%?) then their voters get another chance to move to another side of the room. In small towns where voters know each other there is presumably a lot of personal discussion that goes on. I have never understood how a poll can hope to capture this.

    Historically, polls haven't captured it at all well.
    Yes, the big question there being whether anti-Trump voters will rally around Rubio.
    He has only one office in the whole of Iowa. Just one. That suggests to me that - maybe - another "establishment" candidate may be the one who gets the boost...

    Or maybe the seven dwarves all end up on around 8%, and Trump saunters to the nomination with Cruz in his wake.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    malcolmg said:

    runnymede said:

    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans

    'Trust me for make the right deal' said the Prime Minister

    Dave will look after his chums, will be a complete whitewash
    T in the Park, anyone?
    Google anyone?
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Why am I not surprised?

    SNP ministers want a system known as per capita indexation that would “protect” their future income tax revenues from the impact of Scotland having lower population growth.

    However, the Treasury has argued this would be unfair on the rest of the UK as increasing amounts of income tax raised in England would be used to fund services in Scotland despite the levy being devolved.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12132695/Nicola-Sturgeon-and-David-Cameron-urged-to-save-Scottish-powers-deal-from-collapse.html

    They will not accept a bum deal from the NASTY party and we will be back to square one with lots of people not happy with Scotland being cheated. All you ex government bu** lickers will be sent out to spread your lies again to try and save them.
    So unless rUK income tax payers continue to subsidize Scotland's devolved income tax it's a "bum deal"?

    Away with you to burn Harry Potter books....
    LOL, you can always bet the establishment types will trot out the "subsidy" lie, the Tories first chant when caught with hand in the cookie jar. Like all litigious rich they try to throw their weight about , just because you are rich does not mean you are any different from your average bully.
    It's very simple - should Scotland get the income tax it raises, or should it get that PLUS some part of rUK income tax?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,055

    King Cole, alas for the yellows, Cameron's warm hug ended up breaking their ribs.

    The true nature of the libdems eddifice was a house of cards built on sand. A mixed bag trying to appeal to everybody and which spent all its time rubbishing the govt it was part of.
    Kennedy and Asdown were men of principle. I’m not so sure about Clegg.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    runnymede said:

    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans

    'Trust me for make the right deal' said the Prime Minister

    Dave will look after his chums, will be a complete whitewash
    T in the Park, anyone?
    Google anyone?
    Yours, for Scotland, Alex
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    OKC Kennedy the drunk and Paddy the philanderer..men of principle indeed..Clegg was a ditherer
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,365
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    The poll Plato posted suggests that Rubio is definitely worth a punt, both in Iowa and nationally (if he wins Iowa his odds will change dramatically). Not a huge punt as it's only one poll, but still.

    At under 2-1 Nick ?!
    Hmm. When you put it like that... But Rubio is 14.5 on Betfair for Iowa - seems puntable. Nationally, on reflection, not.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063

    OKC Kennedy the drunk and Paddy the philanderer..men of principle indeed..Clegg was a ditherer

    So, the principles were drinking and f*cking.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Yes, the big question there being whether anti-Trump voters will rally around Rubio. ''

    I wonder if the Americans have a 'shy' factor like we do here. You might not admit you were going to vote for certain Repub candidates to a pollster, maybe.
  • Options
    taffys said:

    ''Yes, the big question there being whether anti-Trump voters will rally around Rubio. ''

    I wonder if the Americans have a 'shy' factor like we do here. You might not admit you were going to vote for certain Repub candidates to a pollster, maybe.

    Caucus votes are public so shy voters will probably stay at home.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    OKC Kennedy the drunk and Paddy the philanderer..men of principle indeed..Clegg was a ditherer

    So, the principles were drinking and f*cking.
    :lol:
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063

    taffys said:

    ''Yes, the big question there being whether anti-Trump voters will rally around Rubio. ''

    I wonder if the Americans have a 'shy' factor like we do here. You might not admit you were going to vote for certain Repub candidates to a pollster, maybe.

    Caucus votes are public so shy voters will probably stay at home.
    I thought that was true only of the Democratic caucus, but not the Republican one
  • Options

    King Cole, alas for the yellows, Cameron's warm hug ended up breaking their ribs.

    The true nature of the libdems eddifice was a house of cards built on sand. A mixed bag trying to appeal to everybody and which spent all its time rubbishing the govt it was part of.
    Kennedy and Asdown were men of principle. I’m not so sure about Clegg.
    Ashdown helped Blair into office and got shafted by him over PR. Cameron gave Clegg his report and the vote.
    The lib dems in the end just ran away from the scary notion of government and pissed on their own USP, coalitions.
  • Options
    BBC - Tareena Shakil who took her toddler son to Syria jailed for six years for joining IS.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ladbroke Politics
    Last 10 Iowa Republican polls via @pollsterpolls.
    Latest odds:
    1/2 Trump
    2/1 Cruz
    8/1 Rubio https://t.co/kQCePmIyET
  • Options
    Apols if previously posted here:

    Markit/CIPS UK Manufacturing PMI
    UK manufacturing growth accelerates at start of 2016 to 52.9, against market expectations of around 51.4.
    Excellent news although the share prices remain depressed this morning.
  • Options
    Mr. Flightpath, then Ashdown was a fool. Why would a PM with a landslide alter the voting system?
  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    OKC Kennedy the drunk and Paddy the philanderer..men of principle indeed..Clegg was a ditherer

    So, the principles were drinking and f*cking.
    Not to mention making yourself look a complete and utter idiot on GE night, followed by much hat eating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_l7-l2XnsY
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''Yes, the big question there being whether anti-Trump voters will rally around Rubio. ''

    I wonder if the Americans have a 'shy' factor like we do here. You might not admit you were going to vote for certain Repub candidates to a pollster, maybe.

    Caucus votes are public so shy voters will probably stay at home.
    I thought that was true only of the Democratic caucus, but not the Republican one
    The people who write the interwebs support your understanding.
    http://www.iowacaucus.biz/ia_caucus_howitworks.html
    Step 2 - At the individual Republican caucus meetings, a straw poll is taken by secret ballot to influence the delegate.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans. Doing some level of good is no excuse for such large scale mismanagement, arrogance and waste -there are others who would have done much more good if it hadn't been wasted on them,

    On place names, Bombay to Mumbai confuses me - the only guy I know from there calls it Bombay - as to my knowledge it isn't like the Brits renamed it from what it had been called. The city grew up around the British presence and was always called Bombay wasn't it? And it and Mumbai were local names for spaces where the city was built?

    Well Mumbai has another example. The main train station, Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus is still known to local people as VT (Victoria Terminus). No one uses the new "CST" abbreviation other than overly PC foreigners.
    The airport in Mumbai is still coded BOM too, which confuses those who don't know the history.

    It's PEK for Beijing.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063
    edited February 2016

    Apols if previously posted here:

    Markit/CIPS UK Manufacturing PMI
    UK manufacturing growth accelerates at start of 2016 to 52.9, against market expectations of around 51.4.
    Excellent news although the share prices remain depressed this morning.

    Manufacturing PMIs were generally good around Europe and in Japan, with China, Russia and France struggling:
    Spain	55.5
    Sweden 55.5
    Ireland 54.3
    Italy 53.2
    UK 52.9
    Germany 52.3
    Japan 52.3
    France 50.0
    Russia 49.8
    China 48.4
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,993
    What does a PMI score actually mean, other than 50.1+ good, 50- bad.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,715

    rcs1000 said:

    OKC Kennedy the drunk and Paddy the philanderer..men of principle indeed..Clegg was a ditherer

    So, the principles were drinking and f*cking.
    :lol:
    I'd have thought that Kennedy was a more successfully f*cker than Mr Pantsdown.

    Didn't Pantdowns score one, while even Mr Cleggover claimed to have scored 30?

    The nypost lists a dozen for JFK without breaking sweat: http://nypost.com/2013/11/10/all-the-presidents-women-3/

    Ah. Powerful men and their activities.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063
    Pulpstar said:

    What does a PMI score actually mean, other than 50.1+ good, 50- bad.

    It's a "Purchasing Manager's Survey".

    Basically Markit surveys 10,000+ companies around the world and asks them:

    - what did sales do last month
    - what did orders do last month
    - what is the order outlook
    - what is your employment outlook

    There is a very high correlation between PMI responses and GDP data. The difference is that PMIs come out a long time before GDP figures.

    The evidence, so far, is that there is no "contagion" from China to Europe. We shall see this afternoon, if December was a blip for the US economy or whether it continues to slow.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,132
    rcs1000 said:

    He has only one office in the whole of Iowa. Just one. That suggests to me that - maybe - another "establishment" candidate may be the one who gets the boost...

    I know she's not establishment but I hope Fiorina survives the first wave of drop-outs and maybe gets a second look once they're down to 4-5 candidates. That's the point at which being the only woman in the race might play to her advantage. Sadly it looks too late for her though.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063
    edited February 2016
    My rule of thumb is to take two thirds of the number above 50, and that is probably roughly equivalent to the annual growth rate. So, UK manufacturing production is probably growing at just under 2%, while Spain and Sweden are seeing something in the 3.5-4.0% range.

    Edit to add: the PMIs are generally considered the best "forward looking" economic activity indicator.
  • Options
    If shagging is the key criterion of Lib Dem leadership, perhaps they should defrost Austin Powers.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,132

    If shagging is the key criterion of Lib Dem leadership, perhaps they should defrost Austin Powers.

    Or get DSK on an international transfer?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,715

    The poll Plato posted suggests that Rubio is definitely worth a punt, both in Iowa and nationally (if he wins Iowa his odds will change dramatically). Not a huge punt as it's only one poll, but still.

    rcs's analysis of what we should do on refugees is really accurate IMO, and pretty much what I've been arguing for over a year. We should make peaceful countries in the region an irresistible cash offer to operate decent migrant camps with some prospect of actually making a living there while things are (we hope) sorted out. It would be a very sensible investment.

    Thoughtful piece by Tatchell on the balance between tolerating free speech and tolerating bigotry, which I think many here will agree with (still not sure what I think myself):

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/01/gay-cake-row-i-changed-my-mind-ashers-bakery-freedom-of-conscience-religion

    That's good to hear, as it was a very peculiar decision to bring a case.

    AIUI, and as was argued in NI at the time, it was not clear how it was even possible that anyone had been discriminated against at all, since discrimination is against people because of their sexual orientation and it was not clear that the shop knew that their customer was a person, or if so what their orientation was.

    Another of those, like the Google Tax Flap, where some campaigners wanted the law to say something different to that which it actually does.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,715

    If shagging is the key criterion of Lib Dem leadership, perhaps they should defrost Austin Powers.

    Or John Hemming?
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    He has only one office in the whole of Iowa. Just one. That suggests to me that - maybe - another "establishment" candidate may be the one who gets the boost...

    I know she's not establishment but I hope Fiorina survives the first wave of drop-outs and maybe gets a second look once they're down to 4-5 candidates. That's the point at which being the only woman in the race might play to her advantage. Sadly it looks too late for her though.
    That would be a very handsome payday for me. But I now think it highly unlikely.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OKC Kennedy the drunk and Paddy the philanderer..men of principle indeed..Clegg was a ditherer

    So, the principles were drinking and f*cking.
    :lol:
    I'd have thought that Kennedy was a more successfully f*cker than Mr Pantsdown.

    Didn't Pantdowns score one, while even Mr Cleggover claimed to have scored 30?

    The nypost lists a dozen for JFK without breaking sweat: http://nypost.com/2013/11/10/all-the-presidents-women-3/

    Ah. Powerful men and their activities.
    Drinking and adultery are not proclivities restricted solely to powerful men, it happens rather a lot in every town and village. - As for Clegg, relations with 30 women before settling down is nothing for a healthy, good looking chap. :wink:
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I guess the big drop in Sterling is a welcome move for some manufacturers.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    rcs1000 said:

    Apols if previously posted here:

    Markit/CIPS UK Manufacturing PMI
    UK manufacturing growth accelerates at start of 2016 to 52.9, against market expectations of around 51.4.
    Excellent news although the share prices remain depressed this morning.

    Manufacturing PMIs were generally good around Europe and in Japan, with China, Russia and France struggling:
    Spain	55.5
    Sweden 55.5
    Ireland 54.3
    Italy 53.2
    UK 52.9
    Germany 52.3
    Japan 52.3
    France 50.0
    Russia 49.8
    China 48.4
    I would say the Germans are struggling as well given the record monetary stimulus from the ECB and how depressed the Euro is vs GBP and USD.

    The ECB is playing a beggar-thy-neighbour strategy to jump start EU growth, but only Spain and Ireland are really pushing forwards with it
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,993
    taffys said:

    I guess the big drop in Sterling is a welcome move for some manufacturers.

    It's a big relief for me personally.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    The poll Plato posted suggests that Rubio is definitely worth a punt, both in Iowa and nationally (if he wins Iowa his odds will change dramatically). Not a huge punt as it's only one poll, but still.

    rcs's analysis of what we should do on refugees is really accurate IMO, and pretty much what I've been arguing for over a year. We should make peaceful countries in the region an irresistible cash offer to operate decent migrant camps with some prospect of actually making a living there while things are (we hope) sorted out. It would be a very sensible investment.

    Thoughtful piece by Tatchell on the balance between tolerating free speech and tolerating bigotry, which I think many here will agree with (still not sure what I think myself):

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/01/gay-cake-row-i-changed-my-mind-ashers-bakery-freedom-of-conscience-religion

    That's good to hear, as it was a very peculiar decision to bring a case.

    AIUI, and as was argued in NI at the time, it was not clear how it was even possible that anyone had been discriminated against at all, since discrimination is against people because of their sexual orientation and it was not clear that the shop knew that their customer was a person, or if so what their orientation was.

    Another of those, like the Google Tax Flap, where some campaigners wanted the law to say something different to that which it actually does.
    The judge found as a fact that the cake shop owners assumed the customer was gay from the request. It seems an entirely reasonable finding on the face of it.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,063
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Apols if previously posted here:

    Markit/CIPS UK Manufacturing PMI
    UK manufacturing growth accelerates at start of 2016 to 52.9, against market expectations of around 51.4.
    Excellent news although the share prices remain depressed this morning.

    Manufacturing PMIs were generally good around Europe and in Japan, with China, Russia and France struggling:
    Spain	55.5
    Sweden 55.5
    Ireland 54.3
    Italy 53.2
    UK 52.9
    Germany 52.3
    Japan 52.3
    France 50.0
    Russia 49.8
    China 48.4
    I would say the Germans are struggling as well given the record monetary stimulus from the ECB and how depressed the Euro is vs GBP and USD.

    The ECB is playing a beggar-thy-neighbour strategy to jump start EU growth, but only Spain and Ireland are really pushing forwards with it
    I think the collapse in the price of oil is benefiting Europe too. Worth remembering that almost all Euopean countries are big energy importers.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    rcs1000 said:

    My rule of thumb is to take two thirds of the number above 50, and that is probably roughly equivalent to the annual growth rate. So, UK manufacturing production is probably growing at just under 2%, while Spain and Sweden are seeing something in the 3.5-4.0% range.

    Edit to add: the PMIs are generally considered the best "forward looking" economic activity indicator.

    There has been an issue in the UK where the manufacturing PMI data and the ONS manufacturing index haven't been close to matching up for a year or so. I think the problem lies with the ONS, but it could be that the PMI figures are overstating real growth and the managers are reporting incorrect numbers to Makit for some reason or other.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The EU Commission is ready to say that the number of arrivals to Britain is so high that a four-year ban on benefits should be imposed to deter others.

    The landmark concession means Eurocrats led by Commission boss Jean-Claude Juncker are also ready to trigger an “emergency brake” mechanism to put the ban in place

    It is the first time that any EU institution has accepted that the UK’s net immigration — now running at 330,000 a year — is too much for our welfare system to cope with.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6899421/Brussels-chiefs-will-accept-David-Cameron-s-key-immigration-demand.html
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,365

    Ladbroke Politics
    Last 10 Iowa Republican polls via @pollsterpolls.
    Latest odds:
    1/2 Trump
    2/1 Cruz
    8/1 Rubio https://t.co/kQCePmIyET

    I've just taken £2 at 16-1 on Betfair Exchange (oooh big spender). Still modest sums available at 12 and 13 and 14.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    edited February 2016

    MattW said:

    The poll Plato posted suggests that Rubio is definitely worth a punt, both in Iowa and nationally (if he wins Iowa his odds will change dramatically). Not a huge punt as it's only one poll, but still.

    rcs's analysis of what we should do on refugees is really accurate IMO, and pretty much what I've been arguing for over a year. We should make peaceful countries in the region an irresistible cash offer to operate decent migrant camps with some prospect of actually making a living there while things are (we hope) sorted out. It would be a very sensible investment.

    Thoughtful piece by Tatchell on the balance between tolerating free speech and tolerating bigotry, which I think many here will agree with (still not sure what I think myself):

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/01/gay-cake-row-i-changed-my-mind-ashers-bakery-freedom-of-conscience-religion

    That's good to hear, as it was a very peculiar decision to bring a case.

    AIUI, and as was argued in NI at the time, it was not clear how it was even possible that anyone had been discriminated against at all, since discrimination is against people because of their sexual orientation and it was not clear that the shop knew that their customer was a person, or if so what their orientation was.

    Another of those, like the Google Tax Flap, where some campaigners wanted the law to say something different to that which it actually does.
    The judge found as a fact that the cake shop owners assumed the customer was gay from the request. It seems an entirely reasonable finding on the face of it.
    Would the baker have made a non-political cake for the same person? If the answer is yes then it's not discrimination. Or would the baker have made a cake with the same slogan for a straight person who wanted to gift the cake? If the answer is no, then it's not discrimination. That is just common sense, the law, however, doesn't take common sense into account so I have no idea what the legal position would be on these scenarios.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,715

    MattW said:

    The poll Plato posted suggests that Rubio is definitely worth a punt, both in Iowa and nationally (if he wins Iowa his odds will change dramatically). Not a huge punt as it's only one poll, but still.

    rcs's analysis of what we should do on refugees is really accurate IMO, and pretty much what I've been arguing for over a year. We should make peaceful countries in the region an irresistible cash offer to operate decent migrant camps with some prospect of actually making a living there while things are (we hope) sorted out. It would be a very sensible investment.

    Thoughtful piece by Tatchell on the balance between tolerating free speech and tolerating bigotry, which I think many here will agree with (still not sure what I think myself):

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/01/gay-cake-row-i-changed-my-mind-ashers-bakery-freedom-of-conscience-religion

    That's good to hear, as it was a very peculiar decision to bring a case.

    AIUI, and as was argued in NI at the time, it was not clear how it was even possible that anyone had been discriminated against at all, since discrimination is against people because of their sexual orientation and it was not clear that the shop knew that their customer was a person, or if so what their orientation was.

    Another of those, like the Google Tax Flap, where some campaigners wanted the law to say something different to that which it actually does.
    The judge found as a fact that the cake shop owners assumed the customer was gay from the request. It seems an entirely reasonable finding on the face of it.
    Thank-you for that. I find the Judge's ruling a little entrepreneurial.
This discussion has been closed.