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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Trump does win tonight in Iowa he’ll go into New Hampshi

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Trump does win tonight in Iowa he’ll go into New Hampshire next week in an overwhelming position

Well we’ve got there at last. After months of speculation, polling and debates, the first state to decide in the long-drawn out nomination process, Iowa, will do so tonight. My guess is that we should be getting the first results in both GOP Democrat races after 2am tomorrow morning.

Read the full story here


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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    First!
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited February 2016
    Second! Like Cruz.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Third! Like Rubio.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    4th like Spurs!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    5th, like the LDs in Scotland!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Trump tells Iowans:
    "“You have a lousy record - 16 years you haven’t picked a winner. Please pick a winner this time.”

    Does put the argument that Iowa is somehow decisive into context doesn't it? Having said that I agree with Mike that a Trump win will put him in a very strong position going forward.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632
    edited February 2016
    A few of the saner GOP candidates need to fall on their swords for the good of their party. Rubio looks to be the best of the non-mad, non-obnoxious offerings, so the likes of Bush and Christie need to endorse him, and do so soon.

    Meanwhile for the Dems, I'm still in the 'Draft Biden' camp.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    8th - like Bush who should endorse someone else..
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    A few of the saner GOP candidates need to fall on their swords for the good of their party. Rubio looks to be the best of the non-mad, non-obnoxious offerings, so the likes of Bush and Christie need to endorse him, and do so soon.

    Meanwhile for the Dems, I'm still in the 'Draft Biden' camp.

    Certainly agree with the first bit. The field really needs to at least halve going forward.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm amazed the field is still so big.

    A few of the saner GOP candidates need to fall on their swords for the good of their party. Rubio looks to be the best of the non-mad, non-obnoxious offerings, so the likes of Bush and Christie need to endorse him, and do so soon.

    Meanwhile for the Dems, I'm still in the 'Draft Biden' camp.

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    Now our troops face being hounded in court by the TALIBAN: Iraq witch-hunt lawyers set sights on Afghan claims

    Leigh Day – which is under investigation for alleged unscrupulous practices – said it was acting for about 80 Afghans who said they were unlawfully detained or mistreated.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3425756/Now-troops-face-hounded-court-TALIBAN-Iraq-witch-hunt-lawyers-set-sights-Afghan-claims.html

    Mrs Bouquet...lady of the house speaking....oh wonderful news...
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    Good morning, everyone.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Colonel Bucket if you please.

    Now our troops face being hounded in court by the TALIBAN: Iraq witch-hunt lawyers set sights on Afghan claims

    Leigh Day – which is under investigation for alleged unscrupulous practices – said it was acting for about 80 Afghans who said they were unlawfully detained or mistreated.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3425756/Now-troops-face-hounded-court-TALIBAN-Iraq-witch-hunt-lawyers-set-sights-Afghan-claims.html

    Mrs Bouquet...lady of the house speaking....oh wonderful news...

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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Latest UNHCR data on the 912k refugees arriving in Greece in last 12 months. Interesting eg less than 1/2 = Syrians https://t.co/e1bqHFmyrO
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,579
    17th like Nottingham Forest.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,579
    edited February 2016
    Interesting. The major landlord associations are going for a Judicial Review, but this seems to be separate.

    And she is going for the turnover tax, not the Stamp Duty surcharge.
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    Mr. Brooke, ha. Those who haven't absconded, of course.

    Merkel's a moron.
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    Why am I not surprised?

    SNP ministers want a system known as per capita indexation that would “protect” their future income tax revenues from the impact of Scotland having lower population growth.

    However, the Treasury has argued this would be unfair on the rest of the UK as increasing amounts of income tax raised in England would be used to fund services in Scotland despite the levy being devolved.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12132695/Nicola-Sturgeon-and-David-Cameron-urged-to-save-Scottish-powers-deal-from-collapse.html
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,579
    The Old Batchelour, 1693:

    Thus grief still treads upon the heels of pleasure:
    Married in haste, we may repent at leisure.
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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236
    Trump will under perform expectations but probably still will win ; Cruz will under perform but still likely come second place ...RUBIO will over perform and come , at the very least , a strong third (18-21%)

    The real story here is Rubio rising and when it becomes clear that he is the establishment's best chance of winning , then he will not only win the nomination but the presidency too
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632

    Latest UNHCR data on the 912k refugees arriving in Greece in last 12 months. Interesting eg less than 1/2 = Syrians https://t.co/e1bqHFmyrO

    But how many have stayed in Greece? I suspect a tiny fraction. The whole "first safe country" thing is long gone.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,076

    Latest UNHCR data on the 912k refugees arriving in Greece in last 12 months. Interesting eg less than 1/2 = Syrians https://t.co/e1bqHFmyrO

    In the FAZ piece Merkel was saying that 'when there is peace in Syria and IS has been defeated' they will have to go home. She didn't mention the fact that most of them are coming from other places.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    She's disgusting as Donald Trump would say :)

    On topic: Sensible enough betting position from Mike, personally I can't have Rubio at 3.3 though.
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    4th like Spurs!

    steady...
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,076
    Cromwell said:

    The real story here is Rubio rising and when it becomes clear that he is the establishment's best chance of winning , then he will not only win the nomination but the presidency too

    He has no chance of winning the Presidency (barring a major misstep from the Democrats). Hillary would relish running against someone as inept as Rubio is in this clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp6sTe1cNqs
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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236
    All of you folks who are predicting Mein Trumpf to become the nominee have a shallow , superficial and crudely stereotypical grasp of American politics ; there are simply not enough gormless voters in the GOP...there is a silent majority of sober minded , PRAGMATIC voters who want to win the White House ; these folks will eventually choose Rubio !

    Donald Trump is an egotistic reality TV star ; a unhinged megalomaniac and Dr Strangelove who has temporarily captured the imagination of some low information voters
    Trump is a political Ponzi scheme that exists on bluff and consumer confidence , but sooner or later it will collapse like a house of cards
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans. Doing some level of good is no excuse for such large scale mismanagement, arrogance and waste -there are others who would have done much more good if it hadn't been wasted on them,

    On place names, Bombay to Mumbai confuses me - the only guy I know from there calls it Bombay - as to my knowledge it isn't like the Brits renamed it from what it had been called. The city grew up around the British presence and was always called Bombay wasn't it? And it and Mumbai were local names for spaces where the city was built?
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    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    Cromwell said:

    All of you folks who are predicting Mein Trumpf to become the nominee have a shallow , superficial and crudely stereotypical grasp of American politics ; there are simply not enough gormless voters in the GOP...there is a silent majority of sober minded , PRAGMATIC voters who want to win the White House ; these folks will eventually choose Rubio !

    Donald Trump is an egotistic reality TV star ; a unhinged megalomaniac and Dr Strangelove who has temporarily captured the imagination of some low information voters
    Trump is a political Ponzi scheme that exists on bluff and consumer confidence , but sooner or later it will collapse like a house of cards

    People have been saying that for 6 months now.. And as Keynes says "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent". You claim the market is irrational but after 6 months I no longer think it is....
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    Pulpstar said:

    She's disgusting as Donald Trump would say :)

    On topic: Sensible enough betting position from Mike, personally I can't have Rubio at 3.3 though.
    Rubio is too short. He may well do it but I'm not buying at that price.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    Mr. Brooke, ha. Those who haven't absconded, of course.

    Merkel's a moron.

    At the very least she, for one moment, abandoned her famed caution - and got on her high horse about it -and took a major decision with implications for a lot of people and nations without considering its impact. Out of character, apparently, but. May be legacy defining

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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236
    Trump doesn't want tp be president ; he would be horrified if it were forced upon him ...he only entered the race to boost his TV ratings and was surprised by his own success ; he's playing it by ear , improvising as he goes , but he knows only too well that he can only ride this train so far and will then suddenly pull out and quit leaving his gormless supporters in the lurch
    He is not a politician ,; he is primarily an entertainer ..every time I see him I am reminded of some gormless WWF wrestler showboating to the crowd ...he has a very limited vocabulary and relies on repition and rude facial expressions to get his point across ; he's not even a good demagogue but is merely a comedic parody of a demagogue ; Trumpolini I presume ?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    kle4 said:

    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans. Doing some level of good is no excuse for such large scale mismanagement, arrogance and waste -there are others who would have done much more good if it hadn't been wasted on them,

    On place names, Bombay to Mumbai confuses me - the only guy I know from there calls it Bombay - as to my knowledge it isn't like the Brits renamed it from what it had been called. The city grew up around the British presence and was always called Bombay wasn't it? And it and Mumbai were local names for spaces where the city was built?

    Well Mumbai has another example. The main train station, Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus is still known to local people as VT (Victoria Terminus). No one uses the new "CST" abbreviation other than overly PC foreigners.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Bernie could win both Iowa and New Hampshire. But he is weak in South Carolina, Nevada and anywhere outwith white liberals.
    Trump in contrast is strong in Nevada, South Carolina, Wisconsin and even Florida
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans

    'Trust me for make the right deal' said the Prime Minister
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,465
    Cromwell said:

    All of you folks who are predicting Mein Trumpf to become the nominee have a shallow , superficial and crudely stereotypical grasp of American politics ; there are simply not enough gormless voters in the GOP...there is a silent majority of sober minded , PRAGMATIC voters who want to win the White House ; these folks will eventually choose Rubio !

    Donald Trump is an egotistic reality TV star ; a unhinged megalomaniac and Dr Strangelove who has temporarily captured the imagination of some low information voters
    Trump is a political Ponzi scheme that exists on bluff and consumer confidence , but sooner or later it will collapse like a house of cards

    I'm sensing a whiff of desperation here.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    Pulpstar said:

    She's disgusting as Donald Trump would say :)

    On topic: Sensible enough betting position from Mike, personally I can't have Rubio at 3.3 though.
    How will they list the case

    Regina versus Greed and Entitlement ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Cromwell said:

    Trump doesn't want tp be president ; he would be horrified if it were forced upon him ...he only entered the race to boost his TV ratings and was surprised by his own success ; he's playing it by ear , improvising as he goes , but he knows only too well that he can only ride this train so far and will then suddenly pull out and quit leaving his gormless supporters in the lurch
    He is not a politician ,; he is primarily an entertainer ..every time I see him I am reminded of some gormless WWF wrestler showboating to the crowd ...he has a very limited vocabulary and relies on repition and rude facial expressions to get his point across ; he's not even a good demagogue but is merely a comedic parody of a demagogue ; Trumpolini I presume ?

    Best of luck betting on that strategy. You think someone with an ego the size of Trump is going to pull out.

    Trolololool
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Cromwell said:

    All of you folks who are predicting Mein Trumpf to become the nominee have a shallow , superficial and crudely stereotypical grasp of American politics ; there are simply not enough gormless voters in the GOP...there is a silent majority of sober minded , PRAGMATIC voters who want to win the White House ; these folks will eventually choose Rubio !

    Donald Trump is an egotistic reality TV star ; a unhinged megalomaniac and Dr Strangelove who has temporarily captured the imagination of some low information voters
    Trump is a political Ponzi scheme that exists on bluff and consumer confidence , but sooner or later it will collapse like a house of cards

    You are worse than Comical Ali. Even when Trump has swept Super Tuesday you will still be saying Rubio is on course for the nomination! The GOP base clearly wants a populist who expresses what they feel not an establishment puppet, Rubio is not even in the top two now
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Pulpstar said:

    Cromwell said:

    Trump doesn't want tp be president ; he would be horrified if it were forced upon him ...he only entered the race to boost his TV ratings and was surprised by his own success ; he's playing it by ear , improvising as he goes , but he knows only too well that he can only ride this train so far and will then suddenly pull out and quit leaving his gormless supporters in the lurch
    He is not a politician ,; he is primarily an entertainer ..every time I see him I am reminded of some gormless WWF wrestler showboating to the crowd ...he has a very limited vocabulary and relies on repition and rude facial expressions to get his point across ; he's not even a good demagogue but is merely a comedic parody of a demagogue ; Trumpolini I presume ?

    Best of luck betting on that strategy. You think someone with an ego the size of Trump is going to pull out.

    Trolololool
    I hope he renames the White House as "the Trump House"
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Pulpstar said:

    She's disgusting as Donald Trump would say :)

    On topic: Sensible enough betting position from Mike, personally I can't have Rubio at 3.3 though.
    How will they list the case

    Regina versus Greed and Entitlement ?
    If Cherie had her way it would be

    R v R
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632
    I had hoped the "Why can't Jonny Foreigners use our names for their places?" discussion had remained on the last thread.

    Anyway, Bombay and Mumbai are just different ways of spelling the same name using English approximation to the way it is pronounced.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    I still don't see how this current emergency brake is different to the one that was on offer last week other than the concession of someone who doesn't matter that, yes, maybe we do need to use it. We still need the other 27 nations to agree to its use and once we've voted to remain there is no way they can be trusted to keep to their side of the bargain. The last time we made a backroom deal with the EU we gave up the rebate and the EU did nothing to reduce CAP spending. They can't be trusted.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Love how kids company are doing the usual 'our evidence was ignored' defence. Time will tell on that one, but as a defence it is only partial, as the evidence may well not be credible and should be ignored,
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,076
    I wonder if Cromwell has seen this poll - http://nypost.com/2016/01/31/trump-winning-over-latino-republicans-poll-says/

    Trump is on 38% with Latinos, Rubio - 8%.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Cromwell said:

    Trump will under perform expectations but probably still will win ; Cruz will under perform but still likely come second place ...RUBIO will over perform and come , at the very least , a strong third (18-21%)

    The real story here is Rubio rising and when it becomes clear that he is the establishment's best chance of winning , then he will not only win the nomination but the presidency too

    If Trump wins Iowa and NH he will be the first non-presidential republican to do since since the Iowa caucuses began on the GOP side in 1976. As no candidate on either side who won both those states failed to get the nomination he will be unstoppable. Sanders v Clinton looks likely to be closer now than Trump v Rubio and Rubio had to get past Cruz first to even be his main rival
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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236
    HYUFD said:

    Cromwell said:

    All of you folks who are predicting Mein Trumpf to become the nominee have a shallow , superficial and crudely stereotypical grasp of American politics ; there are simply not enough gormless voters in the GOP...there is a silent majority of sober minded , PRAGMATIC voters who want to win the White House ; these folks will eventually choose Rubio !

    Donald Trump is an egotistic reality TV star ; a unhinged megalomaniac and Dr Strangelove who has temporarily captured the imagination of some low information voters
    Trump is a political Ponzi scheme that exists on bluff and consumer confidence , but sooner or later it will collapse like a house of cards

    You are worse than Comical Ali. Even when Trump has swept Super Tuesday you will still be saying Rubio is on course for the nomination! The GOP base clearly wants a populist who expresses what they feel not an establishment puppet, Rubio is not even in the top two now
    ------------------------------

    No it is you who is utterly deluded ; you remind me of the infamous ''Baghdad Bob'' who was wildly predicting the latest Iraqi army victories as the US marines were booting his door down and dragging him out of there

    If you were Sherlock Holmes you couldn't identify your own shoes by looking down

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    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    Cromwell said:

    Trump doesn't want tp be president ; he would be horrified if it were forced upon him ...he only entered the race to boost his TV ratings and was surprised by his own success ; he's playing it by ear , improvising as he goes , but he knows only too well that he can only ride this train so far and will then suddenly pull out and quit leaving his gormless supporters in the lurch
    He is not a politician ,; he is primarily an entertainer ..every time I see him I am reminded of some gormless WWF wrestler showboating to the crowd ...he has a very limited vocabulary and relies on repition and rude facial expressions to get his point across ; he's not even a good demagogue but is merely a comedic parody of a demagogue ; Trumpolini I presume ?

    I really don't think Trump will pull out. Why would he when he is winning?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    eek said:

    Cromwell said:

    Trump doesn't want tp be president ; he would be horrified if it were forced upon him ...he only entered the race to boost his TV ratings and was surprised by his own success ; he's playing it by ear , improvising as he goes , but he knows only too well that he can only ride this train so far and will then suddenly pull out and quit leaving his gormless supporters in the lurch
    He is not a politician ,; he is primarily an entertainer ..every time I see him I am reminded of some gormless WWF wrestler showboating to the crowd ...he has a very limited vocabulary and relies on repition and rude facial expressions to get his point across ; he's not even a good demagogue but is merely a comedic parody of a demagogue ; Trumpolini I presume ?

    I really don't think Trump will pull out. Why would he when he is winning?
    Is it true that he hasn't actually spent that much on his campaign (in the context of the other campaigns at least)?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,076
    eek said:

    I really don't think Trump will pull out. Why would he when he is winning?

    There was a theory that his increasingly outrageous statements were because he was looking for an out, but that doesn't seem to be true.

    If he really wanted to lose he could always try booking an Elvis impersonator to serenade him with 'The Wonder Of You', before calling his voters a bunch of bigots, but I suspect even that wouldn't do the trick.
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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236
    Trump is pulling a con trick , a political Ponzi scheme , but when it finally dawns upon the voters what is happening then Trump will get the hell out of dodge

    Trump is like the Wizard of Oz hiding behind the curtains and fooling all those political munchkins , but sooner or later they will figure things out and he will be leaving in a hot air balloon ...Trump's supporters are political munchkins , some of them scarecrows clearly in search of a brain
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    eek said:

    I really don't think Trump will pull out. Why would he when he is winning?

    There was a theory that his increasingly outrageous statements were because he was looking for an out, but that doesn't seem to be true.

    If he really wanted to lose he could always try booking an Elvis impersonator to serenade him with 'The Wonder Of You', before calling his voters a bunch of bigots, but I suspect even that wouldn't do the trick.
    :)

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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    On those numbers, bet on Rubio?
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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    On those numbers, bet on Rubio?

    If that is an accurate poll then it should be clear to anyone able to read between the lines that Rubio is going to be the nominee
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Trump as president and a win for Leave makes the world a far more entertaining place.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Cromwell said:

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    On those numbers, bet on Rubio?

    If that is an accurate poll then it should be clear to anyone able to read between the lines that Rubio is going to be the nominee
    Yep Rubio for me.

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Cromwell said:

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    On those numbers, bet on Rubio?

    If that is an accurate poll then it should be clear to anyone able to read between the lines that Rubio is going to be the nominee
    A strong third is a contradiction in terms. If Rubio fails to win Iowa he has to win NH. If Trump wins both he is nominee. Tonight also partly depends on turnout, Overtime politics overnight had Trump leading Rubio by 20% amongst potential caucus goers but 3% amongst certain caucus goers however Rubio was still third in both cases
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'The last time we made a backroom deal with the EU we gave up the rebate and the EU did nothing to reduce CAP spending. They can't be trusted.'

    It's worse than that. The people who are 'negotiating' from our side don't actually care. All they want is the appearance of a deal.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Cromwell said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cromwell said:

    All of you folks who are predicting Mein Trumpf to become the nominee have a shallow , superficial and crudely stereotypical grasp of American politics ; there are simply not enough gormless voters in the GOP...there is a silent majority of sober minded , PRAGMATIC voters who want to win the White House ; these folks will eventually choose Rubio !

    Donald Trump is an egotistic reality TV star ; a unhinged megalomaniac and Dr Strangelove who has temporarily captured the imagination of some low information voters
    Trump is a political Ponzi scheme that exists on bluff and consumer confidence , but sooner or later it will collapse like a house of cards

    You are worse than Comical Ali. Even when Trump has swept Super Tuesday you will still be saying Rubio is on course for the nomination! The GOP base clearly wants a populist who expresses what they feel not an establishment puppet, Rubio is not even in the top two now
    ------------------------------

    No it is you who is utterly deluded ; you remind me of the infamous ''Baghdad Bob'' who was wildly predicting the latest Iraqi army victories as the US marines were booting his door down and dragging him out of there

    If you were Sherlock Holmes you couldn't identify your own shoes by looking down

    We will see once Iowa, NH and South Carolina are over
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    No chance... there will never be mass deportations.
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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236
    RUBIO doesn't need to win Iowa , he just needs to overperform expectations and build momentum ; he only needs a second place in N H to unify the establishment behind him ; he may not actually win a state until Nevada but he will win the nomination and CRUSH Hillary ; that is provided that Hillary has not been indicted for at least three serious felonies
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    Mr. Slackbladder, even if there are, 1.8m entered Europe last year, over 1m going to Germany alone.

    Are they going to deport 3,000 people a day?

    If not [and they won't] then, even assuming the numbers don't rise this year [and they will], the overall number will only rise.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    runnymede said:

    'The last time we made a backroom deal with the EU we gave up the rebate and the EU did nothing to reduce CAP spending. They can't be trusted.'

    It's worse than that. The people who are 'negotiating' from our side don't actually care. All they want is the appearance of a deal.

    The most extraordinary thing to me is that Conservatives, alleged proponents of small govt, seem desperate to stay in at any cost. I'm genuinely amazed that tory voters are pro EU when it stands for everything they dislike.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    Cromwell said:

    RUBIO doesn't need to win Iowa , he just needs to overperform expectations and build momentum ; he only needs a second place in N H to unify the establishment behind him ; he may not actually win a state until Nevada but he will win the nomination and CRUSH Hillary ; that is provided that Hillary has not been indicted for at least three serious felonies

    You think her chances are better if she's indicted?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    Rubio has timed his surge to perfection. I'm long him for the Presidency (phew).
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632

    runnymede said:

    'The last time we made a backroom deal with the EU we gave up the rebate and the EU did nothing to reduce CAP spending. They can't be trusted.'

    It's worse than that. The people who are 'negotiating' from our side don't actually care. All they want is the appearance of a deal.

    The most extraordinary thing to me is that Conservatives, alleged proponents of small govt, seem desperate to stay in at any cost. I'm genuinely amazed that tory voters are pro EU when it stands for everything they dislike.
    Not so much pro-EU as pro-Cameron. When he says jump, they ask how high?
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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236
    rcs1000 said:

    Cromwell said:

    RUBIO doesn't need to win Iowa , he just needs to overperform expectations and build momentum ; he only needs a second place in N H to unify the establishment behind him ; he may not actually win a state until Nevada but he will win the nomination and CRUSH Hillary ; that is provided that Hillary has not been indicted for at least three serious felonies

    You think her chances are better if she's indicted?
    Hillary will be forced to drop out of the race and will cop a plea bargain from Obama for a presidential pardon to keep her out of prison

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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    @JosiasJessop OT did you see the PBS docu on the Hoover Dam constructon? If not well worth a looksee.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    No chance... there will never be mass deportations.
    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    runnymede said:

    'The last time we made a backroom deal with the EU we gave up the rebate and the EU did nothing to reduce CAP spending. They can't be trusted.'

    It's worse than that. The people who are 'negotiating' from our side don't actually care. All they want is the appearance of a deal.

    The most extraordinary thing to me is that Conservatives, alleged proponents of small govt, seem desperate to stay in at any cost. I'm genuinely amazed that tory voters are pro EU when it stands for everything they dislike.
    There is a wing of the Conservative Party that regards its mission as giving Big Business whatever it wants.
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    Cromwell said:

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    On those numbers, bet on Rubio?

    If that is an accurate poll then it should be clear to anyone able to read between the lines that Rubio is going to be the nominee
    What you want to happen isn't the same as predicting with confidence what will happen.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    Rubio has timed his surge to perfection. I'm long him for the Presidency (phew).
    I think it's probably too little too late for Rubio in Iowa, or it's an outlier.
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    Mr. Royale, are you suggesting Olivia Wilde and Jennifer Morrison won't be pillow-fighting over which one of them gets to sleep with me?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995

    Why am I not surprised?

    SNP ministers want a system known as per capita indexation that would “protect” their future income tax revenues from the impact of Scotland having lower population growth.

    However, the Treasury has argued this would be unfair on the rest of the UK as increasing amounts of income tax raised in England would be used to fund services in Scotland despite the levy being devolved.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12132695/Nicola-Sturgeon-and-David-Cameron-urged-to-save-Scottish-powers-deal-from-collapse.html

    They will not accept a bum deal from the NASTY party and we will be back to square one with lots of people not happy with Scotland being cheated. All you ex government bu** lickers will be sent out to spread your lies again to try and save them.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    @JosiasJessop OT did you see the PBS docu on the Hoover Dam constructon? If not well worth a looksee.

    No! Where can I get it?

    Thanks.

    I'd love to see a documentary about the 1975 Banqiao dam disaster which, along with other dam failures at the same time and the associated famine and disease, killed 176,000 people. It would probably require Chinese government approval though.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam

    Alternatively, one on the great Sheffield dam disaster that killed at least 240:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sheffield_Flood
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    HYUFD said:

    Cromwell said:

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    On those numbers, bet on Rubio?

    If that is an accurate poll then it should be clear to anyone able to read between the lines that Rubio is going to be the nominee
    A strong third is a contradiction in terms. If Rubio fails to win Iowa he has to win NH. If Trump wins both he is nominee. Tonight also partly depends on turnout, Overtime politics overnight had Trump leading Rubio by 20% amongst potential caucus goers but 3% amongst certain caucus goers however Rubio was still third in both cases
    Yes, turnout will be crucial. Trump may excite as he may but will the disillusioned WWC bother turning out for him?

    If this was the UK I'd be discounting all but the certain to vote, so I expect a tight result.
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    malcolmg said:

    Why am I not surprised?

    SNP ministers want a system known as per capita indexation that would “protect” their future income tax revenues from the impact of Scotland having lower population growth.

    However, the Treasury has argued this would be unfair on the rest of the UK as increasing amounts of income tax raised in England would be used to fund services in Scotland despite the levy being devolved.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12132695/Nicola-Sturgeon-and-David-Cameron-urged-to-save-Scottish-powers-deal-from-collapse.html

    They will not accept a bum deal from the NASTY party and we will be back to square one with lots of people not happy with Scotland being cheated. All you ex government bu** lickers will be sent out to spread your lies again to try and save them.
    So unless rUK income tax payers continue to subsidize Scotland's devolved income tax it's a "bum deal"?

    Away with you to burn Harry Potter books....
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995
    runnymede said:

    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans

    'Trust me for make the right deal' said the Prime Minister

    Dave will look after his chums, will be a complete whitewash
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003

    No chance... there will never be mass deportations.
    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.
    Just suppose, for a moment that the current Geneva talks succeed. (I know, I know). Assad retires to a villa by the Black Sea and someone else takes over. That leaves Syria united with IS as the only remaining trouble-makers, and consequently much of Syria peaceful.
    In those circumstances, how many of the current refugees are going to go home, especially if support for rebuilding is available?
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    malcolmg said:

    runnymede said:

    I see the report on kids company is known out today apparently. What a bunch of charlatans

    'Trust me for make the right deal' said the Prime Minister

    Dave will look after his chums, will be a complete whitewash
    T in the Park, anyone?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Forecast looks clear in Iowa today by the way.
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    Latest UNHCR data on the 912k refugees arriving in Greece in last 12 months. Interesting eg less than 1/2 = Syrians https://t.co/e1bqHFmyrO

    Interesting yet unsurprising. Judging from the photos which were published of many of the migrants, it was pretty obvious that many - or even most - of them were not Syrian.

    I was very interested (and, if I'm honest, surprised) to read of the very different offending rates for Syrians versus other migrant groups:

    "The Syrian refugees intentionally welcomed by Merkel have so far proven overwhelmingly law abiding. According to a Jan. 8 police report from North Rhine-Westphalia, the western German state that includes Cologne, only 0.5 percent of Syrian migrants in the city were caught committing crimes within a year.

    By contrast, among migrants from North Africa, as many as 40 percent were caught committing crimes within a year, the report says.

    Virtually none of the North Africans arriving in Germany have proven to be genuine refugees: last year Germany granted some form of protection to just 0.19 percent of Tunisian migrants, 3.74 percent of Moroccans and 1.6 percent of Algerians."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-challenges-in-idUSKCN0V6173


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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It was on PBS America - on FreeSat or try their website - you may need to pretend to be in the USA to get access. It's part of their American Experience series.

    Here are a few alternatives I found on Google

    @JosiasJessop OT did you see the PBS docu on the Hoover Dam constructon? If not well worth a looksee.

    No! Where can I get it?

    Thanks.

    I'd love to see a documentary about the 1975 Banqiao dam disaster which, along with other dam failures at the same time and the associated famine and disease, killed 176,000 people. It would probably require Chinese government approval though.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam

    Alternatively, one on the great Sheffield dam disaster that killed at least 240:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sheffield_Flood
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Cromwell said:

    RUBIO doesn't need to win Iowa , he just needs to overperform expectations and build momentum ; he only needs a second place in N H to unify the establishment behind him ; he may not actually win a state until Nevada but he will win the nomination and CRUSH Hillary ; that is provided that Hillary has not been indicted for at least three serious felonies

    If Rubio comes second in NH he has to win South Carolina as Bill Clinton did in 1992. Hillary has to get past Sanders first to even be nominee
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2016

    No chance... there will never be mass deportations.
    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.
    Just suppose, for a moment that the current Geneva talks succeed. (I know, I know). Assad retires to a villa by the Black Sea and someone else takes over. That leaves Syria united with IS as the only remaining trouble-makers, and consequently much of Syria peaceful.
    HA HA HA HA HA. Ahhhh....

    [I wish you were right]
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    edited February 2016
    Anorak said:

    No chance... there will never be mass deportations.
    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.
    Just suppose, for a moment that the current Geneva talks succeed. (I know, I know). Assad retires to a villa by the Black Sea and someone else takes over. That leaves Syria united with IS as the only remaining trouble-makers, and consequently much of Syria peaceful.
    In those circumstances, how many of the current refugees are going to go home, especially if support for rebuilding is available?
    HA HA HA HA HA. Ahhhh....
    To be fair, I suspect if you're in a camp in Sangrette, and there is almost no chance of being granted citizenship of an EU country, you might get a few takers.

    The general point made by OldKingCole is a good one.
    The supply of migrants is a curve. If we executed every single one that arrived, none would arrive. If we promised each $1m/year, then Syria would be empty. For every migrant, the risk of crossing, the likelihood success, etc., compared to the consequences of staying is a personal calculation.

    We need to make it more expensive to come to Europe, and more attractive to stay in their home country. In this way we fundamentally move the curve.

    So: that means we (as in the Europeans in general) spend a few billions (or even tens of billions) on making places in the Middle East which are safe, and where there is adequate food and water. If we could make these "Special Economic Zones", and exempt exports from there of duties. This should make these places less attractive to leave.

    We then need to make the journey less attractive by increasing border security, and by escorting boats back to their point of embarking, rather than bringing them to Europe.

    And for those who do make it, we need to make sure that a meaningful proportion are deported.

    Together these should move the curve. Will they get rid of all migrants? No. Could they meaningfully reduce them? Yes.
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    Mr. Royale, are you suggesting Olivia Wilde and Jennifer Morrison won't be pillow-fighting over which one of them gets to sleep with me?

    Lol :-) I'd be worried for you if you were betting on it!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    No chance... there will never be mass deportations.
    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.
    Just suppose, for a moment that the current Geneva talks succeed. (I know, I know). Assad retires to a villa by the Black Sea and someone else takes over. That leaves Syria united with IS as the only remaining trouble-makers, and consequently much of Syria peaceful.
    In those circumstances, how many of the current refugees are going to go home, especially if support for rebuilding is available?
    Let's hope the talks succeed.

    There's the al Nusra troublemakers as well, and the fact that there will be a temptation for a lot of score settling between communities. As I've said before, if we do get a fragile peace we'll need to maintain it with f'loads of money. Not just to rebuild, but also bribe people who might be inclined to fight. That's not something I like to do, but it might be necessary and better than the alternative. (*)

    I still think my tentative proposal is the best way forward: turn the country into a series of semi-autonomous regions. The vast amount of internal and external migration would make that easier: the country has already somewhat differentiated.

    (*) A recent Economist (yes, I know) had an interesting article on ?Liberian? fighters who are being dissuaded from fighting by small bribes and help with other occupations. Give them some seeds and pigs and they're much less likely to travel abroad to fight. Syria was much richer than Liberia, but the same probably holds true.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    LucyJones said:

    Latest UNHCR data on the 912k refugees arriving in Greece in last 12 months. Interesting eg less than 1/2 = Syrians https://t.co/e1bqHFmyrO

    Interesting yet unsurprising. Judging from the photos which were published of many of the migrants, it was pretty obvious that many - or even most - of them were not Syrian.

    I was very interested (and, if I'm honest, surprised) to read of the very different offending rates for Syrians versus other migrant groups:

    "The Syrian refugees intentionally welcomed by Merkel have so far proven overwhelmingly law abiding. According to a Jan. 8 police report from North Rhine-Westphalia, the western German state that includes Cologne, only 0.5 percent of Syrian migrants in the city were caught committing crimes within a year.

    By contrast, among migrants from North Africa, as many as 40 percent were caught committing crimes within a year, the report says.

    Virtually none of the North Africans arriving in Germany have proven to be genuine refugees: last year Germany granted some form of protection to just 0.19 percent of Tunisian migrants, 3.74 percent of Moroccans and 1.6 percent of Algerians."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-challenges-in-idUSKCN0V6173


    Wow: very interesting.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    As an aside, I don't know what the Spaniards are doing, but they are doing a great job in keeping refugee numbers down. Even though crossing the Med from North Africa to Spain is a lot narrower than managing it to Greece, they got only a few thousand (who presumably just broke into the Spanish enclaves on the North African coast), against the million odd that made it to Greece.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    Rubio has timed his surge to perfection. I'm long him for the Presidency (phew).
    I think it's probably too little too late for Rubio in Iowa, or it's an outlier.
    He doesn't have to win Iowa, he just needs to be the dominant "establishment" candidate.
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    HYUFD said:

    Cromwell said:

    RUBIO doesn't need to win Iowa , he just needs to overperform expectations and build momentum ; he only needs a second place in N H to unify the establishment behind him ; he may not actually win a state until Nevada but he will win the nomination and CRUSH Hillary ; that is provided that Hillary has not been indicted for at least three serious felonies

    If Rubio comes second in NH he has to win South Carolina as Bill Clinton did in 1992. Hillary has to get past Sanders first to even be nominee
    Here's the thing: if Trump were in the high 20s and Rubio/Bush combined matching him, I could well believe he could be overtaken.

    But he's not. Trump is in the 30-40% bracket and comfortably outpolls Bush and Rubio. Even if all the moderates drop out, *some* of their support will go to Trump and this should be enough to carry him over the line, even if it becomes a two horse race.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Anorak said:

    No chance... there will never be mass deportations.
    I agree, particularly from Germany. What there might be is bribed deportations: pay people ten or twenty thousand dollars (it would have to be US currency) to go back home. After which they will just try to make their way back once more...

    It's a mess with no easy solutions.
    Just suppose, for a moment that the current Geneva talks succeed. (I know, I know). Assad retires to a villa by the Black Sea and someone else takes over. That leaves Syria united with IS as the only remaining trouble-makers, and consequently much of Syria peaceful.
    In those circumstances, how many of the current refugees are going to go home, especially if support for rebuilding is available?
    HA HA HA HA HA. Ahhhh....
    To be fair, I suspect if you're in a camp in Sangrette, and there is almost no chance of being granted citizenship of an EU country, you might get a few takers.

    The general point made by OldKingCole is a good one.
    The supply of migrants is a curve. If we executed every single one that arrived, none would arrive. If we promised each $1m/year, then Syria would be empty. For every migrant, the risk of crossing, the likelihood success, etc., compared to the consequences of staying is a personal calculation.

    We need to make it more expensive to come to Europe, and more attractive to stay in their home country. In this way we fundamentally move the curve.

    So: that means we (as in the Europeans in general) spend a few billions (or even tens of billions) on making places in the Middle East which are safe, and where there is adequate food and water. If we could make these "Special Economic Zones", and exempt exports from there of duties. This should make these places less attractive to leave.

    We then need to make the journey less attractive by increasing border security, and by escorting boats back to their point of embarking, rather than bringing them to Europe.

    And for those who do make it, we need to make sure that a meaningful proportion are deported.

    Together these should move the curve. Will they get rid of all migrants? No. Could they meaningfully reduce them? Yes.
    Spot on.
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    Tim Montgomerie gives his thoughts on British politics at present:

    http://capx.co/george-osborne-probably-wont-even-stand-to-be-the-next-tory-leader/

    Worth a read, though a lot of it is contentious.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2016


    So: that means we (as in the Europeans in general) spend a few billions (or even tens of billions) on making places in the Middle East which are safe, and where there is adequate food and water.
    Erm...you are talking about us colonising chunks of the Middle East. Good luck with that. The ME is a basket case precisely because of its culture. Access to money is not their problem. Culture determines your country's living standards. Culture determines whether or not its OK to surround women and sexually abuse them. Culture determines if its good to push gays off rooftops or not. Culture decides if your people are Makers or Takers. How can we fix their broken culture?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Tim Montgomerie gives his thoughts on British politics at present:

    http://capx.co/george-osborne-probably-wont-even-stand-to-be-the-next-tory-leader/

    Worth a read, though a lot of it is contentious.

    BACK GEORGE
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    CromwellCromwell Posts: 236
    HYUFD said:

    Cromwell said:

    Final Iowa GOP poll from Emerson College:
    Trump 27% (-6 )
    Cruz 26 (+3)
    Rubio 22 (+8)

    Tight three-horse race that will be won on turnout.

    On those numbers, bet on Rubio?

    If that is an accurate poll then it should be clear to anyone able to read between the lines that Rubio is going to be the nominee
    A strong third is a contradiction in terms. If Rubio fails to win Iowa he has to win NH. If Trump wins both he is nominee. Tonight also partly depends on turnout, Overtime politics overnight had Trump leading Rubio by 20% amongst potential caucus goers but 3% amongst certain caucus goers however Rubio was still third in both cases
    You have zero political instincts and nous ; Trump may win the first 3 states and then still lose ....Rubio doesn't ''have '' to win Iowa and NH ...you are just a prisoner od statistics without the ability to read between the lines ...this is a very unusual election and you can expect an unusual outcome

  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited February 2016
    LucyJones said:

    Latest UNHCR data on the 912k refugees arriving in Greece in last 12 months. Interesting eg less than 1/2 = Syrians https://t.co/e1bqHFmyrO

    Interesting yet unsurprising. Judging from the photos which were published of many of the migrants, it was pretty obvious that many - or even most - of them were not Syrian.

    I was very interested (and, if I'm honest, surprised) to read of the very different offending rates for Syrians versus other migrant groups:

    "The Syrian refugees intentionally welcomed by Merkel have so far proven overwhelmingly law abiding. According to a Jan. 8 police report from North Rhine-Westphalia, the western German state that includes Cologne, only 0.5 percent of Syrian migrants in the city were caught committing crimes within a year.

    By contrast, among migrants from North Africa, as many as 40 percent were caught committing crimes within a year, the report says.

    Virtually none of the North Africans arriving in Germany have proven to be genuine refugees: last year Germany granted some form of protection to just 0.19 percent of Tunisian migrants, 3.74 percent of Moroccans and 1.6 percent of Algerians."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-challenges-in-idUSKCN0V6173
    Morning all.

    Interesting analysis – looks like genuine Syrian refugees are law abiding on the whole and appreciative of the opportunity afforded them by the host country. – No surprise that illegal migrants who have shown no respect for the rule of law continue to do so. – Another reason why helping Syrians based in the Turkish and Jordanian refugee camps was a wise move.
This discussion has been closed.