Undefined discussion subject.

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.

I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.

So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.

And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.

So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?

Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.

Newsflash: the service isn't working now.

What has happened to GP out of hours?

Dominic Lawson has a great comment piece in today's ST - main difference in medics of this generation is they're are more women docs. This has led to lower hours worked per doc.

ThreeQuidder said:

Chris_A said:

richardDodd said:

Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing

N=40.

Statistics as robust as Hunt's then.

Mortimer said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.

I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.

So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.

And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.

So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?

Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.

Newsflash: the service isn't working now.

What has happened to GP out of hours?

Dominic Lawson has a great comment piece in today's ST - main difference in medics of this generation is they're are more women docs. This has led to lower hours worked per doc.

Yes the majority of medical students for a fair few years now have been female.

flightpath01 said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

CornishBlue said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Eagles, the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are Celts. So, surely, les Rosbif does refer to the Anglo-Saxons?

Scots and Northern Irish... Celts?

This Celtic myth (largely 19th century) that other than the English the British Isles is populated by Celtic peoples is, well, a myth.

Scots is an Anglo-Saxon language.

I thought the Scots came via Ireland? Does Gaelic have early English influences?
I know a lot of Scottish nobility has Norman roots - what language did they speak.
Is Scotland more English than the SNP have been letting on?

Gaelic is not Scots.

Best news of 2016, nothing will top this in 2016

The BBC is to air an X Factor-style live competition giving the public the power to vote for the act to represent the UK at the next Eurovision Song Contest.

The show, Eurovision: You Decide, will be hosted by The Great British Bake-off presenter and self-confessed Eurovision fan Mel Giedroyc.

The 90-minute show, which will be broadcast live from the O2 Forum in Kentish Town, north London, will air on BBC4 on 26 February.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/17/bbc-x-factor-uk-eurovision-act-mel-giedroyc?CMP=share_btn_tw

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.

I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.

So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.

And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.

So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?

Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.

It's not working though. Haven't for years so yes it needs change. That's the last I shall say just fed up with NHS,NHS,NHS....it's really the only thing left in Labours Arsenal hence their infatuation.

AlbionTillIDie said:

watford30 said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.

I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.

So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.

And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.

So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?

Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.

Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.

Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.

As do most public sector ones.

AlbionTillIDie said:

NorfolkTilIDie said:

AlbionTillIDie said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

AlbionTillIDie said:

flightpath01 said:

AlbionTillIDie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Wanderer, surely French for Anglo-Saxon is 'le rosbif'?

Nope. Les Rosbif is for us English, and of course Perfidious Albion

I thought you were Pakistani?

He is English and British (and as such has won the lottery of life) but not anglo saxon.

So how did he end up being a Muslim?

What has that got to do with anything?

It is unusual for English people to convert to being Muslims, that is all.

Thats a load of really ugly bigotry you're gushing.

Er no that's a (now seemingly incorrect) statement of fact that it was unusual for English people to convert to being Muslims. Per my response to Fysics_teacher I stand corrected.

That you think this is ugly bigotry speak volumes. Are you Dawn Butler?

I was talking about the whole train of thought, not that one line.

Chris_A said:

Moses_ said:

Chris_A said:

richardDodd said:

Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing

Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.

Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805

You know Chris that labour will have no input into the NHS for years as they become not only unelectable but become a laughing stock as per today's nonsense. It must be very frustrating for you but until labour shifts to a credible leader the Conservatives will hold all the cards

Good Lord.

Chris_A said:

Moses_ said:

Chris_A said:

richardDodd said:

Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing

Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.

Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805

You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688842361129009152

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688842361129009152

That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.

I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.

So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.

And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.

I think the NHS is a massive distraction and obstacle to providing quality health care. I don't give a monkeys of it is dismantled.

I do care that we provide the best health care that is free at the point of delivery ans I'd available to all.

The NHS is unimportant and is probably an impediment in providing best quality medical care for all.

Mortimer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688842361129009152

That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?

It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mortimer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688842361129009152

That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?

It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.

It's ok though, because only Tories read the Sun...

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mortimer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688842361129009152

That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?

It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.

A Murdoch Corbyn ding-dong, with the Tories disappearing up their own arse on Europe for the 1000th time for no readily apparent reason.

Politics is seriously depressing these days. Something has to give.

Chris_A said:

watford30 said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.

I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.

So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.

And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.

So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?

Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.

Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.

Quite agree they were. And much of today's debt arises from exorbitant PFI deals with decades left to run.

PFI's cover servicing and replacement costs so their benefit will not be felt for some years. Conventional contracts still took a percentage out of budgets as well as the capital costs which also came out of the NHS budget. Conventional projects are still subject to excess costs and controversy and their history is not all sunshine.
The net difference is a bit moot.
It is questionable that there were too many PFIs leading to too much ongoing commitment (and which were a tory invention if anything) and really any procurement method involves debt and the costs of upkeep.

AlbionTillIDie said:

watford30 said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

nigel4england said:

Chris_A said:

I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.

......

So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.

And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.

So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?

Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.

Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.

Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.

The Tories having been trying to destroy the NHS since I can remember.

At an early age, I can remember a very SirBuftonTufton type on the radio explaining that if the government went ahead an brought in evil American method into the NHS, every single surgeon would resign. The method - micro surgery....

Then there was the ending of sovereign immunity for the NHS - you could sue if they stuffed up. That was supposed to destroy the NHS as well.

Then actually counting who kills what patient - everyone was going to resign over that. In the end, the government quietly pointed out that the tables wouldn't be retroactive. Some incompetent fools did more admin and golf...

Looking back - since 1985 or so, the Tories have destroyed or privatised the entire NHS at least 15 times I can think of....

Still seems to be an awful lot of NHS about though.... hmmmm

http://election2015.ifs.org.uk/uploads/images/election_graphs/nhs_fig1.jpg

Jonathan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mortimer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688842361129009152

That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?

It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.

A Murdoch Corbyn ding-dong, with the Tories disappearing up their own arse on Europe for the 1000th time for no readily apparent reason.

Politics is seriously depressing these days. Something has to give.

One would think. I worry the incoming Tory battles (although if reports a few cabinet eurosceptics have decided they will not break ranks and will instead stick with Cameron, efforts have been made to try and limit the extent) will just mean a distraction from the Lab mess without reaching a conclusion itself, meaning neither side will sort their bloody messes out. And it is not like the LDs are looking like filling the void.

Interesting

Free economics seminars for the public will be held by Labour across the UK in an attempt to break away from “Westminster-dominated views” about public finances.

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, is launching the “New Economics” events in a bid to get members of the public talking about economic ideas in the hope they will inform Labour policy.

The events will include seminars and expert panels, including members
of Labour’s economic advisory group, such as Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, and leading economists Mariana Mazzucato and Ha-Joon Chang.

Topics up for debate include inequality, technology and work, and the strategic state before a national conference on economics is held by McDonnell in May.

http://goo.gl/t9R2BG

Interesting the Sun does not include the strike business from Corbyn's words as a sub heading.

Secret files exposing evidence of widespread suspected match fixing at the top level of world tennis, including at Wimbledon, can be revealed by the BBC and BuzzFeed News.

Over the last decade 16 players who have ranked in the top 50 have been repeatedly flagged to the tennis integrity unit over suspicions they have thrown matches.

All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35319202

SquareRoot said:

Jonathan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mortimer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688842361129009152

That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?

It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.

A Murdoch Corbyn ding-dong, with the Tories disappearing up their own arse on Europe for the 1000th time for no readily apparent reason.

Politics is seriously depressing these days. Something has to give.

.. but the Tories aren't disappearing up their own arse as you put it, its been very civilised.. It is Corbyn that's the joke..

Relatively civilised perhaps, so far. But also utterly introspective.

Scott_P said:

@jimwaterson: Files leaked to @HeidilBlake suggest evidence of match-fixing at very top levels of tennis. https://t.co/uUaVt3vxcC https://t.co/oZvdrOTJ9C

This is a long read, but on the subject of sports betting well worth it. Remember the floodlight failures from 20 years ago, well the inside scoop on what was (and is going on) is in the article.

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/14095257/how-world-biggest-bookie-paul-phua-was-snared-fbi-last-year-world-series-poker-walked-away-free-man

TheScreamingEagles said:

Best news of 2016, nothing will top this in 2016

The BBC is to air an X Factor-style live competition giving the public the power to vote for the act to represent the UK at the next Eurovision Song Contest.

The show, Eurovision: You Decide, will be hosted by The Great British Bake-off presenter and self-confessed Eurovision fan Mel Giedroyc.

The 90-minute show, which will be broadcast live from the O2 Forum in Kentish Town, north London, will air on BBC4 on 26 February.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/17/bbc-x-factor-uk-eurovision-act-mel-giedroyc?CMP=share_btn_tw

?
I thought they already did this in one way or another.
Anyway its yet another of a long list of BBC programmes that I'll be giving a miss.

kle4 said:

Interesting the Sun does not include the strike business from Corbyn's words as a sub heading.

Opportunity missed.

Breaking News...
No first strike nukes allowed "secondary strike" elsewhere is fine.

Tennis gambling scandal at Wimbledon. Texts between tennis player and gamblers. 16 top level players suspected. (BBC)
Ho hum.
This is a political betting site. Does anyone suspect Corbyn could be part of some devilish swindle? or Trump. It's the only way anything might make sense.

Alistair said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Secret files exposing evidence of widespread suspected match fixing at the top level of world tennis, including at Wimbledon, can be revealed by the BBC and BuzzFeed News.

Over the last decade 16 players who have ranked in the top 50 have been repeatedly flagged to the tennis integrity unit over suspicions they have thrown matches.

All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35319202

Well, at least tennis has got a second thing to be in denial about after PED use now.

Which major sport doesn't have a problem with one or other or both of these?

HurstLlama said:

nigel4england said:

With who?

Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.

I wish we had that here.

AlastairMeeks said:

Jeremy Corbyn is more remarkable than I thought. Every time I think he has fully fixed the public assessment of him, he finds the resource to plumb a new low.

We can't go on like this.

Chris_A said:

JosiasJessop said:

Chris_A said:

Moses_ said:

Chris_A said:

richardDodd said:

Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing

Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.

Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805

You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.

I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors

The first with only 8 findings or the one they were forced to redo with hundreds?

Chris_A said:

JosiasJessop said:

Chris_A said:

Moses_ said:

Chris_A said:

richardDodd said:

Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing

Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.

Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805

You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.

I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors

Which Francis? There were two Francis reports, something some on here seem to find hard to comprehend.

And again, you miss the point. We cannot know how many people died (the trust's excuse for that is their own incompetence in coding). So let me put it another way: given the things you read about in the report, do you think it would have had no clinical effects (including deaths) on the victims unfortunate patients?

flightpath01 said:

This is a political betting site. Does anyone suspect Corbyn could be part of some devilish swindle? or Trump. It's the only way anything might make sense.

The best explanation I've read is the idea that Donald Trump is really Andy Kaufman and it's going to be the funniest thing ever when all is revealed. It occurred to me that maybe something similar is happening here, is Jeremy Corbyn really Peter Cook playing one of those OTT mad eccentrics he was famous for? And won't it be great to find out that Peter Cook is still alive!

Sunil_Prasannan said:

flightpath01 said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

CornishBlue said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Eagles, the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are Celts. So, surely, les Rosbif does refer to the Anglo-Saxons?

Scots and Northern Irish... Celts?

This Celtic myth (largely 19th century) that other than the English the British Isles is populated by Celtic peoples is, well, a myth.

Scots is an Anglo-Saxon language.

I thought the Scots came via Ireland? Does Gaelic have early English influences?
I know a lot of Scottish nobility has Norman roots - what language did they speak.
Is Scotland more English than the SNP have been letting on?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language

"Scots is the Anglic language variety spoken in Lowland Scotland and parts of Ulster (where the local dialect is known as Ulster Scots).[7] It is sometimes called Lowland Scots to distinguish it from Scottish Gaelic"

I still thought the Scots came from Ireland.

The Mirror's story is here:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-heist-leader-found-7196229

watford30 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

//twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

Nice smear by The Mirror.

And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?

Daily Mail ran a similar story n the past few days, without the paedo claim, again based on the word of a load of criminals, that this raid was all about more than the money and that Basil works for big hitting crime boss and it was really about evidence of other crimes.

Seems very far fetched given how component / old the guys doing the job were. The Pink Panthers they were not. Sounded more like work of fantasy from some low level crim looking for a few quid for telling a tale to the newspapers.

watford30 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

//twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?

"Gangland pal says raid boss", so not even first hand. One crook talking to another, and a conspiracy thrown in as well. Hmmm.

Wanderer said:

HurstLlama said:

nigel4england said:

With who?

Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.

I wish we had that here.

The question must be why haven't you got the same level of service as we enjoy down here in darkest Sussex? As far as I am aware there is no government driven scheme or extra government money that has led to our Saturday surgeries etc.. It has all been designed, set-up and run by the GPs themselves, aided and abetted no doubt by the practice patient consultation group or whatever it is called and with the full support of the practice nurses.

If our lot can do it I can see no reason why other practices cannot, if the quacks want to.