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  • Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Why do lefties think that Tory governments want to harm people. Do they believe they are evil and only go into public service to harm people. Why bother?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Newsflash: the service isn't working now.

    What has happened to GP out of hours?

    Dominic Lawson has a great comment piece in today's ST - main difference in medics of this generation is they're are more women docs. This has led to lower hours worked per doc.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JananGanesh: Imagine giving a TV interview in which your proposal to bring back secondary strikes was not the worst or second worst idea.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    N=40.
    Statistics as robust as Hunt's then.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Mortimer said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Newsflash: the service isn't working now.

    What has happened to GP out of hours?

    Dominic Lawson has a great comment piece in today's ST - main difference in medics of this generation is they're are more women docs. This has led to lower hours worked per doc.

    Yes the majority of medical students for a fair few years now have been female.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Think you'd best give it up as you haven't got a clue, just another Save Our NHS warrior.

    I may not agree with Fox or Big John very often but I'll listen to what they have to say about the NHS all day long, but not some placard waving idiot like you.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Mr. Eagles, the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are Celts. So, surely, les Rosbif does refer to the Anglo-Saxons?

    Scots and Northern Irish... Celts?

    This Celtic myth (largely 19th century) that other than the English the British Isles is populated by Celtic peoples is, well, a myth.
    Scots is an Anglo-Saxon language.
    I thought the Scots came via Ireland? Does Gaelic have early English influences?
    I know a lot of Scottish nobility has Norman roots - what language did they speak.
    Is Scotland more English than the SNP have been letting on?
    Gaelic is not Scots.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    How many patients has the health service knocked off today?
    The more pertinent question is how many have died today because they've been scared from presenting themselves by Hunt's lies.

    None, is the most likely answer.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited 2016 17
    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    Two more voting intention polls.

    Survation Con 37%, Lab 30%, UKIP 16%, Lib Dem 7%.

    Panel base Con 39%, Lab 31%, UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 7%.

    this point in last parliament:
    YouGov/Sun 2011-01-17 con 37 lab 42 lib 9
    That was those great Miliband days ! People tend to forget that the 1.3% swing he achieved in 2015 from Tories to Labour is the highest any opposition party has achieved in the first election after they were ousted since the war. The figure would have been even higher without the Scotland rout.

    The Tories in 2001 also achieved a miniscule positive swing. Every other such instance resulted in the Opposition losing even more.

    Labour 1955, Tories 1966, Labour Feb 1974, Tories Oct 1974, Labour 1983.
  • watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    Best news of 2016, nothing will top this in 2016

    The BBC is to air an X Factor-style live competition giving the public the power to vote for the act to represent the UK at the next Eurovision Song Contest.

    The show, Eurovision: You Decide, will be hosted by The Great British Bake-off presenter and self-confessed Eurovision fan Mel Giedroyc.

    The 90-minute show, which will be broadcast live from the O2 Forum in Kentish Town, north London, will air on BBC4 on 26 February.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/17/bbc-x-factor-uk-eurovision-act-mel-giedroyc?CMP=share_btn_tw
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,251
    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Don't get onto Stafford. Dr Sox will have to give his uncharacteristically wrong comments to try to excuse Burnham.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    It's not working though. Haven't for years so yes it needs change. That's the last I shall say just fed up with NHS,NHS,NHS....it's really the only thing left in Labours Arsenal hence their infatuation.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    As do most public sector ones.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,034
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sanders is only 4/1 for the nomination and 8/1 for the White House. I don't see any value there (quite the opposite) but all the same, for someone like him to be single figures to win is extraordinary.
    I still think Clinton will win the nomination and beat Trump for the presidency, providing no indictment, however if it is Sanders v Trump anything could happen
    Barring events Sander wins Sanders vs Trump
    I'm not sure it's anything like that obvious. Current polling has it close but I simply can't see the US voting for a socialist, whereas I can see them voting for Trump.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    Mr. Wanderer, surely French for Anglo-Saxon is 'le rosbif'?

    Nope. Les Rosbif is for us English, and of course Perfidious Albion
    I thought you were Pakistani?
    He is English and British (and as such has won the lottery of life) but not anglo saxon.
    So how did he end up being a Muslim?
    What has that got to do with anything?
    It is unusual for English people to convert to being Muslims, that is all.
    Thats a load of really ugly bigotry you're gushing.
    Er no that's a (now seemingly incorrect) statement of fact that it was unusual for English people to convert to being Muslims. Per my response to Fysics_teacher I stand corrected.

    That you think this is ugly bigotry speak volumes. Are you Dawn Butler?
    I was talking about the whole train of thought, not that one line.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    @Casino_Royale

    meaningless doggerel over a two-chord dirge...

    Open your ears, FFS.
  • Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    As do most public sector ones.
    So you are arguing that continuing something which already happens in the public sector is dismantling it?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Quite agree they were. And much of today's debt arises from exorbitant PFI deals with decades left to run.
  • Mr. Wanderer, surely French for Anglo-Saxon is 'le rosbif'?

    Nope. Les Rosbif is for us English, and of course Perfidious Albion
    I thought you were Pakistani?
    He is English and British (and as such has won the lottery of life) but not anglo saxon.
    So how did he end up being a Muslim?
    What has that got to do with anything?
    It is unusual for English people to convert to being Muslims, that is all.
    Thats a load of really ugly bigotry you're gushing.
    Er no that's a (now seemingly incorrect) statement of fact that it was unusual for English people to convert to being Muslims. Per my response to Fysics_teacher I stand corrected.

    That you think this is ugly bigotry speak volumes. Are you Dawn Butler?
    I was talking about the whole train of thought, not that one line.
    You can infer a whole train of thought from one line?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    As do most public sector ones.
    So you are arguing that continuing something which already happens in the public sector is dismantling it?
    What is Hunt continuing? He hasn't a clue what he wants. Does he want elective surgery and outpatient appointments at weekends. Does he want GP appointments? Trials haven't proved very popular.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,270
    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You know Chris that labour will have no input into the NHS for years as they become not only unelectable but become a laughing stock as per today's nonsense. It must be very frustrating for you but until labour shifts to a credible leader the Conservatives will hold all the cards
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    Mr. Wanderer, surely French for Anglo-Saxon is 'le rosbif'?

    Nope. Les Rosbif is for us English, and of course Perfidious Albion
    I thought you were Pakistani?
    He is English and British (and as such has won the lottery of life) but not anglo saxon.
    So how did he end up being a Muslim?
    What has that got to do with anything?
    It is unusual for English people to convert to being Muslims, that is all.
    Thats a load of really ugly bigotry you're gushing.
    Er no that's a (now seemingly incorrect) statement of fact that it was unusual for English people to convert to being Muslims. Per my response to Fysics_teacher I stand corrected.

    That you think this is ugly bigotry speak volumes. Are you Dawn Butler?
    I was talking about the whole train of thought, not that one line.
    You can infer a whole train of thought from one line?
    No. I inferred it from your previous posts on the same topic.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    Good Lord.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,555
    Chris_A said:

    Mortimer said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Newsflash: the service isn't working now.

    What has happened to GP out of hours?

    Dominic Lawson has a great comment piece in today's ST - main difference in medics of this generation is they're are more women docs. This has led to lower hours worked per doc.

    Yes the majority of medical students for a fair few years now have been female.
    When my local practice changed around a bit a few years ago, they ended up with one 50 something male doctor and 3 women all of who happened to be un-married, no children, early 30s.

    Guess what happened?
  • Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    As do most public sector ones.
    So you are arguing that continuing something which already happens in the public sector is dismantling it?
    What is Hunt continuing? He hasn't a clue what he wants. Does he want elective surgery and outpatient appointments at weekends. Does he want GP appointments? Trials haven't proved very popular.
    We already have those in Birmingham, which I believe is where you work. You ignore the facts to push your agenda.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    As do most public sector ones.
    No, they don't.

    Most council workers, teachers etc do not.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,251
    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

    The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

    The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

    And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

    I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    As do most public sector ones.
    So you are arguing that continuing something which already happens in the public sector is dismantling it?
    What is Hunt continuing? He hasn't a clue what he wants. Does he want elective surgery and outpatient appointments at weekends. Does he want GP appointments? Trials haven't proved very popular.
    With who?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Off his warhead.

    Sun headline on Corbyn.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STJamesl: Corbyn must whip MPs in line with Labour policy and back Trident say @KevanJonesMP and @JWoodcockMP https://t.co/1ivE13LApM
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited 2016 17
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    I think the NHS is a massive distraction and obstacle to providing quality health care. I don't give a monkeys of it is dismantled.

    I do care that we provide the best health care that is free at the point of delivery ans I'd available to all.

    The NHS is unimportant and is probably an impediment in providing best quality medical care for all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    Mortimer said:

    That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?
    It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    N=40.
    N equals something not stated in the article.

    The forty are the patients who put off treatment; no indication of how many were considered to find them. Basically they went out looking for this effect so they could report it.

    Besides, it's backwards. Anyone who's ever been in a hospital knows that weekends are quiet. We clearly need to change both the reality and make people aware of that so they get care. Telling people it's better at weekends isn't going to fix anything.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164

    Mortimer said:

    That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?
    It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.
    It's ok though, because only Tories read the Sun...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    edited 2016 17
    We're moving from a Trident based defence system to a Corbyn based one? Do not attack us, or we will send Jeremy Corbyn to talk to you?

    That'd be a terrible idea - he actually has a rather soothing voice.

    None of it is actually new information of course. Curse that Marr for bringing the topics up.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,820

    Mortimer said:

    That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?
    It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.
    A Murdoch Corbyn ding-dong, with the Tories disappearing up their own arse on Europe for the 1000th time for no readily apparent reason.

    Politics is seriously depressing these days. Something has to give.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Lord Mandelson told The Sunday Times that Corbyn was not “competent to put Labour’s offer to the electorate” at the 2020 election. “He certainly does not put fear into the Tories,” the peer said. “Reality is dawning amongst Labour MPs that they have got to assume their responsibilities. They are elected by Labour voters and they are duty bound to them.”
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1657296.ece
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    As do most public sector ones.
    So you are arguing that continuing something which already happens in the public sector is dismantling it?
    What is Hunt continuing? He hasn't a clue what he wants. Does he want elective surgery and outpatient appointments at weekends. Does he want GP appointments? Trials haven't proved very popular.
    With who?
    Doctors with wedding photography businesses.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?
    It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.
    A Murdoch Corbyn ding-dong, with the Tories disappearing up their own arse on Europe for the 1000th time for no readily apparent reason.

    Politics is seriously depressing these days. Something has to give.
    I said last week at some time Labour will wake up that the Tories are there for the taking in 2020 if they ditch Corbyn.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Quite agree they were. And much of today's debt arises from exorbitant PFI deals with decades left to run.
    PFI's cover servicing and replacement costs so their benefit will not be felt for some years. Conventional contracts still took a percentage out of budgets as well as the capital costs which also came out of the NHS budget. Conventional projects are still subject to excess costs and controversy and their history is not all sunshine.
    The net difference is a bit moot.
    It is questionable that there were too many PFIs leading to too much ongoing commitment (and which were a tory invention if anything) and really any procurement method involves debt and the costs of upkeep.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Jeremy Corbyn is more remarkable than I thought. Every time I think he has fully fixed the public assessment of him, he finds the resource to plumb a new low.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,555

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    ......
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    The Tories having been trying to destroy the NHS since I can remember.

    At an early age, I can remember a very SirBuftonTufton type on the radio explaining that if the government went ahead an brought in evil American method into the NHS, every single surgeon would resign. The method - micro surgery....

    Then there was the ending of sovereign immunity for the NHS - you could sue if they stuffed up. That was supposed to destroy the NHS as well.

    Then actually counting who kills what patient - everyone was going to resign over that. In the end, the government quietly pointed out that the tables wouldn't be retroactive. Some incompetent fools did more admin and golf...

    Looking back - since 1985 or so, the Tories have destroyed or privatised the entire NHS at least 15 times I can think of....

    Still seems to be an awful lot of NHS about though.... hmmmm

    http://election2015.ifs.org.uk/uploads/images/election_graphs/nhs_fig1.jpg
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?
    It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.
    A Murdoch Corbyn ding-dong, with the Tories disappearing up their own arse on Europe for the 1000th time for no readily apparent reason.

    Politics is seriously depressing these days. Something has to give.
    .. but the Tories aren't disappearing up their own arse as you put it, its been very civilised.. It is Corbyn that's the joke..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?
    It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.
    A Murdoch Corbyn ding-dong, with the Tories disappearing up their own arse on Europe for the 1000th time for no readily apparent reason.

    Politics is seriously depressing these days. Something has to give.
    One would think. I worry the incoming Tory battles (although if reports a few cabinet eurosceptics have decided they will not break ranks and will instead stick with Cameron, efforts have been made to try and limit the extent) will just mean a distraction from the Lab mess without reaching a conclusion itself, meaning neither side will sort their bloody messes out. And it is not like the LDs are looking like filling the void.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @theobertram: The Sun is the most read paper in the UK. 1 in 4 of its readers vote Labour. Or at least they did last time. https://t.co/tDX0Y29EIz
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    Interesting

    Free economics seminars for the public will be held by Labour across the UK in an attempt to break away from “Westminster-dominated views” about public finances.

    John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, is launching the “New Economics” events in a bid to get members of the public talking about economic ideas in the hope they will inform Labour policy.

    The events will include seminars and expert panels, including members
    of Labour’s economic advisory group, such as Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, and leading economists Mariana Mazzucato and Ha-Joon Chang.

    Topics up for debate include inequality, technology and work, and the strategic state before a national conference on economics is held by McDonnell in May.

    http://goo.gl/t9R2BG
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jimwaterson: Files leaked to @HeidilBlake suggest evidence of match-fixing at very top levels of tennis. https://t.co/uUaVt3vxcC https://t.co/oZvdrOTJ9C
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited 2016 17
    Chestnut likes :smiley:

    A funny newspaper headline, plus image, is a killer.

    Who can forget Graham Taylor as a turnip, or the wally with the brolly?

    Corbyn is so so so bad, I never want him to leave.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    It's not working though. Haven't for years so yes it needs change. That's the last I shall say just fed up with NHS,NHS,NHS....it's really the only thing left in Labours Arsenal hence their infatuation.
    Chris A's logic is absurd - but we always knew that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Interesting the Sun does not include the strike business from Corbyn's words as a sub heading.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Perhaps JJ is a cunning plan by the Labour Party to return to government. Initially put somebody up in the form of JJ that is so so so bad, that when they finally replace him with a run of the mill vaguely component one he will seem stellar in comparison.

    Got to think positive...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    Secret files exposing evidence of widespread suspected match fixing at the top level of world tennis, including at Wimbledon, can be revealed by the BBC and BuzzFeed News.

    Over the last decade 16 players who have ranked in the top 50 have been repeatedly flagged to the tennis integrity unit over suspicions they have thrown matches.

    All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35319202
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    Interesting

    Free economics seminars for the public will be held by Labour across the UK in an attempt to break away from “Westminster-dominated views” about public finances.

    John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, is launching the “New Economics” events in a bid to get members of the public talking about economic ideas in the hope they will inform Labour policy.

    The events will include seminars and expert panels, including members
    of Labour’s economic advisory group, such as Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, and leading economists Mariana Mazzucato and Ha-Joon Chang.

    Topics up for debate include inequality, technology and work, and the strategic state before a national conference on economics is held by McDonnell in May.

    http://goo.gl/t9R2BG

    Will they include readings from Mao's little red book?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,820

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    That young Milne chap is earning his pay, what?
    It is a Murdoch rag, they are only doing it because he and the Tories fear Jez.
    A Murdoch Corbyn ding-dong, with the Tories disappearing up their own arse on Europe for the 1000th time for no readily apparent reason.

    Politics is seriously depressing these days. Something has to give.
    .. but the Tories aren't disappearing up their own arse as you put it, its been very civilised.. It is Corbyn that's the joke..
    Relatively civilised perhaps, so far. But also utterly introspective.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Off his warhead..... That might provide a challenge to the BBC paper review.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Scott_P said:

    @jimwaterson: Files leaked to @HeidilBlake suggest evidence of match-fixing at very top levels of tennis. https://t.co/uUaVt3vxcC https://t.co/oZvdrOTJ9C

    This is a long read, but on the subject of sports betting well worth it. Remember the floodlight failures from 20 years ago, well the inside scoop on what was (and is going on) is in the article.

    http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/14095257/how-world-biggest-bookie-paul-phua-was-snared-fbi-last-year-world-series-poker-walked-away-free-man
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Best news of 2016, nothing will top this in 2016

    The BBC is to air an X Factor-style live competition giving the public the power to vote for the act to represent the UK at the next Eurovision Song Contest.

    The show, Eurovision: You Decide, will be hosted by The Great British Bake-off presenter and self-confessed Eurovision fan Mel Giedroyc.

    The 90-minute show, which will be broadcast live from the O2 Forum in Kentish Town, north London, will air on BBC4 on 26 February.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/17/bbc-x-factor-uk-eurovision-act-mel-giedroyc?CMP=share_btn_tw

    ?
    I thought they already did this in one way or another.
    Anyway its yet another of a long list of BBC programmes that I'll be giving a miss.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Quite agree they were. And much of today's debt arises from exorbitant PFI deals with decades left to run.
    PFI's cover servicing and replacement costs so their benefit will not be felt for some years. Conventional contracts still took a percentage out of budgets as well as the capital costs which also came out of the NHS budget. Conventional projects are still subject to excess costs and controversy and their history is not all sunshine.
    The net difference is a bit moot.
    It is questionable that there were too many PFIs leading to too much ongoing commitment (and which were a tory invention if anything) and really any procurement method involves debt and the costs of upkeep.
    Will Hunt is banging on about costs of procurement. Do you know how much it costs to change a lightbulbs on a PFI build?
  • Best news of 2016, nothing will top this in 2016

    The BBC is to air an X Factor-style live competition giving the public the power to vote for the act to represent the UK at the next Eurovision Song Contest.

    The show, Eurovision: You Decide, will be hosted by The Great British Bake-off presenter and self-confessed Eurovision fan Mel Giedroyc.

    The 90-minute show, which will be broadcast live from the O2 Forum in Kentish Town, north London, will air on BBC4 on 26 February.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/17/bbc-x-factor-uk-eurovision-act-mel-giedroyc?CMP=share_btn_tw

    ?
    I thought they already did this in one way or another.
    Anyway its yet another of a long list of BBC programmes that I'll be giving a miss.
    I would guess you are too heterosexual to understand the excitement this causes.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited 2016 17
    surbiton said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    Two more voting intention polls.

    Survation Con 37%, Lab 30%, UKIP 16%, Lib Dem 7%.

    Panel base Con 39%, Lab 31%, UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 7%.

    this point in last parliament:
    YouGov/Sun 2011-01-17 con 37 lab 42 lib 9
    That was those great Miliband days ! People tend to forget that the 1.3% swing he achieved in 2015 from Tories to Labour is the highest any opposition party has achieved in the first election after they were ousted since the war. The figure would have been even higher without the Scotland rout.

    The Tories in 2001 also achieved a miniscule positive swing. Every other such instance resulted in the Opposition losing even more.

    Labour 1955, Tories 1966, Labour Feb 1974, Tories Oct 1974, Labour 1983.
    Which is the "Miliband never really had a chance" argument?

    Maybe. The existence of the coalition and the gift-pack of voters Labour received from the Lib Dems seemed to give it a real opportunity. But perhaps that was always a mirage.

    Ed really was crap though. It's seems obvious that Labour would hae seen a much bigger swing with a decent leader.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    kle4 said:

    Interesting the Sun does not include the strike business from Corbyn's words as a sub heading.

    Opportunity missed.

    Breaking News...
    No first strike nukes allowed "secondary strike" elsewhere is fine.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,270
    Moses_ said:

    Off his warhead..... That might provide a challenge to the BBC paper review.

    I would expect them not to feature the paper
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Tennis gambling scandal at Wimbledon. Texts between tennis player and gamblers. 16 top level players suspected. (BBC)
    Ho hum.
    This is a political betting site. Does anyone suspect Corbyn could be part of some devilish swindle? or Trump. It's the only way anything might make sense.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Secret files exposing evidence of widespread suspected match fixing at the top level of world tennis, including at Wimbledon, can be revealed by the BBC and BuzzFeed News.

    Over the last decade 16 players who have ranked in the top 50 have been repeatedly flagged to the tennis integrity unit over suspicions they have thrown matches.

    All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35319202

    Well, at least tennis has got a second thing to be in denial about after PED use now.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Alistair said:

    Secret files exposing evidence of widespread suspected match fixing at the top level of world tennis, including at Wimbledon, can be revealed by the BBC and BuzzFeed News.

    Over the last decade 16 players who have ranked in the top 50 have been repeatedly flagged to the tennis integrity unit over suspicions they have thrown matches.

    All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35319202

    Well, at least tennis has got a second thing to be in denial about after PED use now.
    Which major sport doesn't have a problem with one or other or both of these?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

    The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

    The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

    And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

    I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.
    I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 17
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Quite agree they were. And much of today's debt arises from exorbitant PFI deals with decades left to run.
    PFI's cover servicing and replacement costs so their benefit will not be felt for some years. Conventional contracts still took a percentage out of budgets as well as the capital costs which also came out of the NHS budget. Conventional projects are still subject to excess costs and controversy and their history is not all sunshine.
    The net difference is a bit moot.
    It is questionable that there were too many PFIs leading to too much ongoing commitment (and which were a tory invention if anything) and really any procurement method involves debt and the costs of upkeep.
    Will Hunt is banging on about costs of procurement. Do you know how much it costs to change a lightbulbs on a PFI build?
    If this weeks striking doctors had directed their ire at Labour when they were signing all the PFI contracts, perhaps things would be different.

    Still, it's entertaining watching you obsess over Hunt. What will you blame him for next? Late running trains, sour milk in the fridge or non starting cars.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    As a matter of interest if you had placed a bet and it subsequently turned out the match was fixed can you claim the bet back from the bookie? Or do you have to go to the professional association or something.?
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    I wish we had that here.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    Re Tennis betting scandal and the authorities not taking action. Not the first time, their record on drug testing is awful, until really recently they weren't testing for lots of well known PED's and techniques.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    edited 2016 17

    Jeremy Corbyn is more remarkable than I thought. Every time I think he has fully fixed the public assessment of him, he finds the resource to plumb a new low.

    We can't go on like this.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

    The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

    The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

    And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

    I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.
    I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors
    The first with only 8 findings or the one they were forced to redo with hundreds?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,932
    For anyone who hasn't seen it yet:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVe5foPumHE
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,251
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

    The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

    The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

    And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

    I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.
    I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors
    Which Francis? There were two Francis reports, something some on here seem to find hard to comprehend.

    And again, you miss the point. We cannot know how many people died (the trust's excuse for that is their own incompetence in coding). So let me put it another way: given the things you read about in the report, do you think it would have had no clinical effects (including deaths) on the victims unfortunate patients?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Jeremy Corbyn is more remarkable than I thought. Every time I think he has fully fixed the public assessment of him, he finds the resource to plumb a new low.

    We can't go on like this.
    "That's what you think."
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085
    edited 2016 17

    This is a political betting site. Does anyone suspect Corbyn could be part of some devilish swindle? or Trump. It's the only way anything might make sense.

    The best explanation I've read is the idea that Donald Trump is really Andy Kaufman and it's going to be the funniest thing ever when all is revealed. It occurred to me that maybe something similar is happening here, is Jeremy Corbyn really Peter Cook playing one of those OTT mad eccentrics he was famous for? And won't it be great to find out that Peter Cook is still alive!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Wowzers at the Mirror. After MacApline et al (I notice the army guy was told no further action past few days) they better be sure of their facts.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Re Tennis betting scandal and the authorities not taking action. Not the first time, their record on drug testing is awful, until really recently they weren't testing for lots of well known PED's and techniques.

    Any sport where previously mediocre specimens suddenly become world-beaters needs to be targeted for testing.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 17

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    The vault raid was in 1971. 45 years ago.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

    The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

    The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

    And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

    I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.
    I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors
    Hunt is killing junior doctors?
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited 2016 17
    I don't bet on tennis. Is it purely a matter of who wins or are there markets on the number of double faults in a match, score in a particular set, number of sets etc etc? (I mean obviously one can bet on anything but are we looking at the equivalent of bets on the number of no-balls?)
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Mr. Eagles, the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are Celts. So, surely, les Rosbif does refer to the Anglo-Saxons?

    Scots and Northern Irish... Celts?

    This Celtic myth (largely 19th century) that other than the English the British Isles is populated by Celtic peoples is, well, a myth.
    Scots is an Anglo-Saxon language.
    I thought the Scots came via Ireland? Does Gaelic have early English influences?
    I know a lot of Scottish nobility has Norman roots - what language did they speak.
    Is Scotland more English than the SNP have been letting on?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language

    "Scots is the Anglic language variety spoken in Lowland Scotland and parts of Ulster (where the local dialect is known as Ulster Scots).[7] It is sometimes called Lowland Scots to distinguish it from Scottish Gaelic"
    I still thought the Scots came from Ireland.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,270
    Sky first up in paper review. Tomorrow's Sun
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Wanderer said:

    surbiton said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    Two more voting intention polls.

    Survation Con 37%, Lab 30%, UKIP 16%, Lib Dem 7%.

    Panel base Con 39%, Lab 31%, UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 7%.

    this point in last parliament:
    YouGov/Sun 2011-01-17 con 37 lab 42 lib 9
    That was those great Miliband days ! People tend to forget that the 1.3% swing he achieved in 2015 from Tories to Labour is the highest any opposition party has achieved in the first election after they were ousted since the war. The figure would have been even higher without the Scotland rout.

    The Tories in 2001 also achieved a miniscule positive swing. Every other such instance resulted in the Opposition losing even more.

    Labour 1955, Tories 1966, Labour Feb 1974, Tories Oct 1974, Labour 1983.
    Which is the "Miliband never really had a chance" argument?

    Maybe. The existence of the coalition and the gift-pack of voters Labour received from the Lib Dems seemed to give it a real opportunity. But perhaps that was always a mirage.

    Ed really was crap though. It's seems obvious that Labour would hae seen a much bigger swing with a decent leader.
    The numbers are all wrong anyhow. Labour didn't get a 1.3% swing in 2015.
    More like 0.3%
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

    The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

    The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

    And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

    I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.
    I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors
    Hunt is killing junior doctors?
    He's moved all the water glasses out of their reach.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    Daily Mail ran a similar story n the past few days, without the paedo claim, again based on the word of a load of criminals, that this raid was all about more than the money and that Basil works for big hitting crime boss and it was really about evidence of other crimes.

    Seems very far fetched given how component / old the guys doing the job were. The Pink Panthers they were not. Sounded more like work of fantasy from some low level crim looking for a few quid for telling a tale to the newspapers.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    "All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing"

    Hang on... in the last decade there have only been seven winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, del Potro. Plus Safin if you count 2005.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if doping wet right to the top.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085
    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    "Gangland pal says raid boss", so not even first hand. One crook talking to another, and a conspiracy thrown in as well. Hmmm.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Wanderer said:

    I don't bet on tennis. Is it purely a matter of who wins or are there markets on the number of double faults in a match, score in a particular set, number of sets etc etc? (I mean obviously one can bet on anything but are we looking at the equivalent of bets on the number of no-balls?)

    I only bet on sports I like and I cannot stand tennis.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Wanderer said:



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    I wish we had that here.
    The question must be why haven't you got the same level of service as we enjoy down here in darkest Sussex? As far as I am aware there is no government driven scheme or extra government money that has led to our Saturday surgeries etc.. It has all been designed, set-up and run by the GPs themselves, aided and abetted no doubt by the practice patient consultation group or whatever it is called and with the full support of the practice nurses.

    If our lot can do it I can see no reason why other practices cannot, if the quacks want to.
This discussion has been closed.