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  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited 2016 17
    Wanderer said:

    surbiton said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    Two more voting intention polls.

    Survation Con 37%, Lab 30%, UKIP 16%, Lib Dem 7%.

    Panel base Con 39%, Lab 31%, UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 7%.

    this point in last parliament:
    YouGov/Sun 2011-01-17 con 37 lab 42 lib 9
    That was those great Miliband days ! People tend to forget that the 1.3% swing he achieved in 2015 from Tories to Labour is the highest any opposition party has achieved in the first election after they were ousted since the war. The figure would have been even higher without the Scotland rout.

    The Tories in 2001 also achieved a miniscule positive swing. Every other such instance resulted in the Opposition losing even more.

    Labour 1955, Tories 1966, Labour Feb 1974, Tories Oct 1974, Labour 1983.
    Which is the "Miliband never really had a chance" argument?

    Maybe. The existence of the coalition and the gift-pack of voters Labour received from the Lib Dems seemed to give it a real opportunity. But perhaps that was always a mirage.

    Ed really was crap though. It's seems obvious that Labour would hae seen a much bigger swing with a decent leader.
    So, why didn't Labour do better in 1955, Feb 74 and 1983 ? Also, Tories in 1966 and Oct 1974 ?

    It is a fact of British politics that virtually all governments get a second chance with a better result than the time they won the first one.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    glw said:


    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    "Gangland pal says raid boss", so not even first hand. One crook talking to another, and a conspiracy thrown in as well. Hmmm.
    Anyone ever watch The Bank Job? One of my favourite ever films, based on a true story, and after the story in the Mail and now this in the Mirror things like this are still going on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17

    "All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing"

    Hang on... in the last decade there have only been seven winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, del Potro. Plus Safin if you count 2005.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if doping wet right to the top.

    There are a few on there I think we can definitely rule out for throwing matches....so the list to choose from is tiny and remember all this betting appears to come from Russia and Italy.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Moses_ said:

    As a matter of interest if you had placed a bet and it subsequently turned out the match was fixed can you claim the bet back from the bookie? Or do you have to go to the professional association or something.?

    So far as I know you've done your money. If you are lucky the bookmaker might refund your money as a goodwill gesture, but that would probably depend on the fix being exposed almost immediately and not months or years later. I'm not a lawyer but I doubt you could establish the professional body had a duty of care to punters, and it would cost too much in legal fees even to try.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085
    "We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse."

    Yep, hmmm was right.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    So there are no actual photographs, just someone saying that he saw a photograph, in 1971, of someone he thought he recognised?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Scandal at the top of tennis would be pretty huge. Compared to some other sports it's a very small field, only a few dozen genuine top players.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
    Shocking isn't it Mr. L. However, there is a difference between a GP surgery and a Hospital. Furthermore, as Mr. Wanderer has pointed out services such as are provided by my local GP Practice are by no means universal. Perhaps they should be.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085
    edited 2016 17

    Daily Mail ran a similar story n the past few days, without the paedo claim, again based on the word of a load of criminals, that this raid was all about more than the money and that Basil works for big hitting crime boss and it was really about evidence of other crimes.

    Seems very far fetched given how component / old the guys doing the job were. The Pink Panthers they were not. Sounded more like work of fantasy from some low level crim looking for a few quid for telling a tale to the newspapers.

    Those kind of stories frequently come out when major robbery trials are over, and they rarely stand up to much scrutiny. They are no better than the annual "the truth about Lucan/Shergar" nonsense.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    kle4 said:

    Scandal at the top of tennis would be pretty huge. Compared to some other sports it's a very small field, only a few dozen genuine top players.

    Buzzfeed article makes it sound like tennis have been doing an IAAA approach to rooting out corruption....LA LA LA LA LA LA LA...
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    RodCrosby said:

    Wanderer said:

    surbiton said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    Two more voting intention polls.

    Survation Con 37%, Lab 30%, UKIP 16%, Lib Dem 7%.

    Panel base Con 39%, Lab 31%, UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 7%.

    this point in last parliament:
    YouGov/Sun 2011-01-17 con 37 lab 42 lib 9
    That was those great Miliband days ! People tend to forget that the 1.3% swing he achieved in 2015 from Tories to Labour is the highest any opposition party has achieved in the first election after they were ousted since the war. The figure would have been even higher without the Scotland rout.

    The Tories in 2001 also achieved a miniscule positive swing. Every other such instance resulted in the Opposition losing even more.

    Labour 1955, Tories 1966, Labour Feb 1974, Tories Oct 1974, Labour 1983.
    Which is the "Miliband never really had a chance" argument?

    Maybe. The existence of the coalition and the gift-pack of voters Labour received from the Lib Dems seemed to give it a real opportunity. But perhaps that was always a mirage.

    Ed really was crap though. It's seems obvious that Labour would hae seen a much bigger swing with a decent leader.
    The numbers are all wrong anyhow. Labour didn't get a 1.3% swing in 2015.
    More like 0.3%
    First election after defeat, swing for or against

    1950 +1.9% (Con)
    2001 +1.8% (Con)
    1974F +0.8% (Lab)
    2015 +0.3% (Lab)
    1974O -2.2% (Con)
    1966 -2.8% (Con)
    1983 -4.1% (Lab)
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Moses_ said:

    As a matter of interest if you had placed a bet and it subsequently turned out the match was fixed can you claim the bet back from the bookie? Or do you have to go to the professional association or something.?

    So far as I know you've done your money. If you are lucky the bookmaker might refund your money as a goodwill gesture, but that would probably depend on the fix being exposed almost immediately and not months or years later. I'm not a lawyer but I doubt you could establish the professional body had a duty of care to punters, and it would cost too much in legal fees even to try.
    Thanks... Sports betting risky.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited 2016 17
    A squirrel? A dead cat on the table?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    "All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing"

    Hang on... in the last decade there have only been seven winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, del Potro. Plus Safin if you count 2005.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if doping wet right to the top.

    People who "throw" matches do not win ! I don't think the implication is that they "threw" GS titles. They would be mad to do that considering potential millions in endorsements etc. But the odd tournaments , eh ?

    When India played Pakistan in 40 or so ODIs each year, it was for the betting fraternity. Cricket in the UAE started for that purpose.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    surbiton said:

    "All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing"

    Hang on... in the last decade there have only been seven winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, del Potro. Plus Safin if you count 2005.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if doping wet right to the top.

    People who "throw" matches do not win ! I don't think the implication is that they "threw" GS titles. They would be mad to do that considering potential millions in endorsements etc. But the odd tournaments , eh ?

    When India played Pakistan in 40 or so ODIs each year, it was for the betting fraternity. Cricket in the UAE started for that purpose.
    I would suggest (and if they had any sense) they would have been instructed to not even throw the match, rather they could throw a set or number of games lost. Especially with in play markets / betting exchanges, that is what we saw with the cricket. No need to throw the whole match, just make sure you under achieve in certain parts of the match.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085

    Anyone ever watch The Bank Job? One of my favourite ever films, based on a true story, and after the story in the Mail and now this in the Mirror things like this are still going on.

    It's quite a good film, but it's fiction, not a documentary. Shocking things found in safety deposit boxes is part of criminal mythology.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Wanderer said:

    surbiton said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    Two more voting intention polls.

    Survation Con 37%, Lab 30%, UKIP 16%, Lib Dem 7%.

    Panel base Con 39%, Lab 31%, UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 7%.

    this point in last parliament:
    YouGov/Sun 2011-01-17 con 37 lab 42 lib 9
    That was those great Miliband days ! People tend to forget that the 1.3% swing he achieved in 2015 from Tories to Labour is the highest any opposition party has achieved in the first election after they were ousted since the war. The figure would have been even higher without the Scotland rout.

    The Tories in 2001 also achieved a miniscule positive swing. Every other such instance resulted in the Opposition losing even more.

    Labour 1955, Tories 1966, Labour Feb 1974, Tories Oct 1974, Labour 1983.
    Which is the "Miliband never really had a chance" argument?

    Maybe. The existence of the coalition and the gift-pack of voters Labour received from the Lib Dems seemed to give it a real opportunity. But perhaps that was always a mirage.

    Ed really was crap though. It's seems obvious that Labour would hae seen a much bigger swing with a decent leader.
    The numbers are all wrong anyhow. Labour didn't get a 1.3% swing in 2015.
    More like 0.3%
    First election after defeat, swing for or against

    1950 +1.9% (Con)
    2001 +1.8% (Con)
    1974F +0.8% (Lab)
    2015 +0.3% (Lab)
    1974O -2.2% (Con)
    1966 -2.8% (Con)
    1983 -4.1% (Lab)
    Sorry ! Not swing. Actual vote share. And, after 1950.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    This tennis doping cum match fixing scandal. A regular contributor on here used to provide frequent betting tips on tennis matches. Suspicious perhaps and maybe West Yorkshire Police should get involved in the investigation to see if the corrupt tendrils extended as far as Leeds.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    glw said:


    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    "Gangland pal says raid boss", so not even first hand. One crook talking to another, and a conspiracy thrown in as well. Hmmm.
    Anyone ever watch The Bank Job? One of my favourite ever films, based on a true story, and after the story in the Mail and now this in the Mirror things like this are still going on.
    Just read the Mirror story and it relates to the Lloyds robbery that The Bank Job was based on. Cracking film, catch it if you haven't already.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited 2016 17
    If the Mirror is claiming there was a D-notice, presumably there will be a record. (And is this the raid that was picked up by the radio ham?)
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 17

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.

    Did they ever pursue Labour paedo Janner on behalf of his many victims?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.
    I am sure the nonce finder general is getting excited by it, he buys into any old BS from 3rd hand sources....he will be firing off letters left, right and centre.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited 2016 17
    surbiton said:

    Wanderer said:

    surbiton said:

    notme said:

    Sean_F said:

    Two more voting intention polls.

    Survation Con 37%, Lab 30%, UKIP 16%, Lib Dem 7%.

    Panel base Con 39%, Lab 31%, UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 7%.

    this point in last parliament:
    YouGov/Sun 2011-01-17 con 37 lab 42 lib 9
    That was those great Miliband days ! People tend to forget that the 1.3% swing he achieved in 2015 from Tories to Labour is the highest any opposition party has achieved in the first election after they were ousted since the war. The figure would have been even higher without the Scotland rout.

    The Tories in 2001 also achieved a miniscule positive swing. Every other such instance resulted in the Opposition losing even more.

    Labour 1955, Tories 1966, Labour Feb 1974, Tories Oct 1974, Labour 1983.
    Which is the "Miliband never really had a chance" argument?

    Maybe. The existence of the coalition and the gift-pack of voters Labour received from the Lib Dems seemed to give it a real opportunity. But perhaps that was always a mirage.

    Ed really was crap though. It's seems obvious that Labour would hae seen a much bigger swing with a decent leader.
    So, why didn't Labour do better in 1955, Feb 74 and 1983 ? Also, Tories in 1966 and Oct 1974 ?

    It is a fact of British politics that virtually all governments get a second chance with a better result than the time they won the first one.
    Attlee's government didn't.

    It's a pivotal moment in our modern history that that government, though very influential, was short-lived.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
    He is talking about GP surgeries, not hospitals.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    "All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing"

    Hang on... in the last decade there have only been seven winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, del Potro. Plus Safin if you count 2005.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if doping wet right to the top.

    People who "throw" matches do not win ! I don't think the implication is that they "threw" GS titles. They would be mad to do that considering potential millions in endorsements etc. But the odd tournaments , eh ?

    When India played Pakistan in 40 or so ODIs each year, it was for the betting fraternity. Cricket in the UAE started for that purpose.
    I would suggest (and if they had any sense) they would have been instructed to not even throw the match, rather they could throw a set or number of games lost. Especially with in play markets / betting exchanges, that is what we saw with the cricket. No need to throw the whole match, just make sure you under achieve in certain parts of the match.
    India - Pak matches were "thrown". It was later that more sophisticated throws like spot-fixing came in. How do you know it does not happen in football, particularly televised football ? How will you check out a "throw-in" or an "offside" between 20 and 25 minutes ?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    glw said:

    This is a political betting site. Does anyone suspect Corbyn could be part of some devilish swindle? or Trump. It's the only way anything might make sense.

    The best explanation I've read is the idea that Donald Trump is really Andy Kaufman and it's going to be the funniest thing ever when all is revealed. It occurred to me that maybe something similar is happening here, is Jeremy Corbyn really Peter Cook playing one of those OTT mad eccentrics he was famous for? And won't it be great to find out that Peter Cook is still alive!
    Where is the real Corbyn then. Is he in a fat suit and running North Korea?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    "All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing"

    Hang on... in the last decade there have only been seven winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, del Potro. Plus Safin if you count 2005.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if doping wet right to the top.

    People who "throw" matches do not win ! I don't think the implication is that they "threw" GS titles. They would be mad to do that considering potential millions in endorsements etc. But the odd tournaments , eh ?

    When India played Pakistan in 40 or so ODIs each year, it was for the betting fraternity. Cricket in the UAE started for that purpose.
    I would suggest (and if they had any sense) they would have been instructed to not even throw the match, rather they could throw a set or number of games lost. Especially with in play markets / betting exchanges, that is what we saw with the cricket. No need to throw the whole match, just make sure you under achieve in certain parts of the match.
    India - Pak matches were "thrown". It was later that more sophisticated throws like spot-fixing came in. How do you know it does not happen in football, particularly televised football ? How will you check out a "throw-in" or an "offside" between 20 and 25 minutes ?
    Yes you are right about the early match fixing in cricket, but that was before in-play / betting exchanges. Now no need to be doing that.

    As for the footy, read the link I posted down thread...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
    Shocking isn't it Mr. L. However, there is a difference between a GP surgery and a Hospital. Furthermore, as Mr. Wanderer has pointed out services such as are provided by my local GP Practice are by no means universal. Perhaps they should be.
    GPs are semi-private anyway, and in competition with other practices, so strong believers in market forces might claim they must be perfect. It is mildly interesting that some GPs, especially in rural areas, offer extended services including pharmacies and minor surgery.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    glw said:


    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    "Gangland pal says raid boss", so not even first hand. One crook talking to another, and a conspiracy thrown in as well. Hmmm.
    The Mirror also says another man made similar claims in 2008, so there is corroboration of a sort.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Wanderer said:



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    I wish we had that here.
    Our local surgery has sessions on Saturday.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Moses_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting the Sun does not include the strike business from Corbyn's words as a sub heading.

    Opportunity missed.

    Breaking News...
    No first strike nukes allowed "secondary strike" elsewhere is fine.
    Unions will be queuing up to get their first strikes in if Corbyn wins.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    "All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing"

    Hang on... in the last decade there have only been seven winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, del Potro. Plus Safin if you count 2005.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if doping wet right to the top.

    People who "throw" matches do not win ! I don't think the implication is that they "threw" GS titles. They would be mad to do that considering potential millions in endorsements etc. But the odd tournaments , eh ?

    When India played Pakistan in 40 or so ODIs each year, it was for the betting fraternity. Cricket in the UAE started for that purpose.
    I would suggest (and if they had any sense) they would have been instructed to not even throw the match, rather they could throw a set or number of games lost. Especially with in play markets / betting exchanges, that is what we saw with the cricket. No need to throw the whole match, just make sure you under achieve in certain parts of the match.
    India - Pak matches were "thrown". It was later that more sophisticated throws like spot-fixing came in. How do you know it does not happen in football, particularly televised football ? How will you check out a "throw-in" or an "offside" between 20 and 25 minutes ?
    Yes you are right about the early match fixing in cricket, but that was before in-play / betting exchanges. Now no need to be doing that.

    As for the footy, read the link I posted down thread...
    Happens in spread betting too. A former boss of West Ham, Spurs and others was allegedly involved in a time of first throw in bet. His team kicked off and booted it straight out, much fun had by all apparently.

    I'm moving much mote towards trading these days.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    "All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing"

    Hang on... in the last decade there have only been seven winners. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic, del Potro. Plus Safin if you count 2005.

    Although it wouldn't surprise me if doping wet right to the top.

    People who "throw" matches do not win ! I don't think the implication is that they "threw" GS titles. They would be mad to do that considering potential millions in endorsements etc. But the odd tournaments , eh ?

    When India played Pakistan in 40 or so ODIs each year, it was for the betting fraternity. Cricket in the UAE started for that purpose.
    I would suggest (and if they had any sense) they would have been instructed to not even throw the match, rather they could throw a set or number of games lost. Especially with in play markets / betting exchanges, that is what we saw with the cricket. No need to throw the whole match, just make sure you under achieve in certain parts of the match.
    India - Pak matches were "thrown". It was later that more sophisticated throws like spot-fixing came in. How do you know it does not happen in football, particularly televised football ? How will you check out a "throw-in" or an "offside" between 20 and 25 minutes ?
    Yes you are right about the early match fixing in cricket, but that was before in-play / betting exchanges. Now no need to be doing that.

    As for the footy, read the link I posted down thread...
    Happens in spread betting too. A former boss of West Ham, Spurs and others was allegedly involved in a time of first throw in bet. His team kicked off and booted it straight out, much fun had by all apparently.

    I'm moving much mote towards trading these days.
    Le Tissier in failed betting scam

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8236108.stm

    In the early days of betting exchanges / in play / spreads, I made some good money on betting on cricket totals, because the market was so immature and people didn't analyze rate scoring patterns very well. But wouldn't touch that stuff with a barge pole these days (and general analysis has got much better, Sky even produce predictions on their coverage).
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.
    I am sure the nonce finder general is getting excited by it, he buys into any old BS from 3rd hand sources....he will be firing off letters left, right and centre.
    Well, left anyway.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    @liamjlhill: God, remember when the best line of argument for The Sun was that our leader couldn't eat a sarnie without looking weird? #ThoseWereTheDays
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    The iPlayer docu-drama exclusive (BBC take on Netflix / Amazon Prime approach) on snooker in the 80's is quite a good watch. Barry Hearn character is very entertaining.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    Mortimer said:

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I've been a bit busy today. Has Hunt come up with any new whoppers yet? . Oops silly me, he doesn't work at weekends.

    Chris, I mentioned this on an earlier thread and Charles said he has seen it too. Is it true that under the new proposals the maximum a junior doctor can work is reduced form 91 hours to 72 hours?

    Genuine question, just trying to understand it all.
    I'm not a doctor so can't comment, but i doubt there are the staff to allow that level of cut. There is however no incentive for Trusts to stock to the rules because they just fine themselves. The money is supposed to go on doctor training so no prizes for guessing what will happen. Doctors will be rostered over the maximum to create the money for the staff training budget which will be slashed. You can bet your life that if there's a way of gaming the system it will happen.
    So despite the fact you are banging on about this non-stop you actually know fuck all about it, you just make assumptions.
    And like the Tories and Europe I'll keep on banging on until we have a government not intent on dismantling the NHS.
    So trying to put a seven day service in place is dismantling the NHS?

    Might be ham fisted and ill thought through, but if they were trying to dismantle it why would they bother with this dispute? How does throwing another eight billion at it infer they are dismantling it?
    Because once the service isn't working the Tories will say they have to be more radical.
    Ah those evil Tories. Bit of a long winded way to go about things mind you. Still, Labour were the ones privatising the NHS up until 2010.
    Snap! I don't know why Cameron doesn't just invade Poland and be done with it.

    For the benefit of the public sector Chris A types most private sector workers work weekends.
    As do most public sector ones.
    No, they don't.

    Most council workers, teachers etc do not.

    Not sure about council workers, but most teachers I know put in a fair few hours most weekends. For many that will be marking, but the only reason I wasn't out for a chunk of yesterday with the thirds was the pitches were too wet.

    And yes, I work at a state school.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    glw said:


    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    "Gangland pal says raid boss", so not even first hand. One crook talking to another, and a conspiracy thrown in as well. Hmmm.
    The Mirror also says another man made similar claims in 2008, so there is corroboration of a sort.
    I think that's stretching the meaning of "of a sort" ;)
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    On topic
    ''then there’s the publication of the report by Dame Margaret Beckett into why Labour lost, parts of Beckett’s report has been leaked''
    Given the report is saying they were not centrist enough - ie too left wing - then the motives for leaking it can only be to embarrass Corbyn.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    Jeremy Corbyn: 'I'd take Donald Trump to a London mosque'

    Finsbury Park Mosque? The one run by extremists? Might just reinforce Trump's argument, no?
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Mortimer said:

    Chris_A said:



    As do most public sector ones.

    No, they don't.

    Most council workers, teachers etc do not.

    Not sure about council workers, but most teachers I know put in a fair few hours most weekends. For many that will be marking, but the only reason I wasn't out for a chunk of yesterday with the thirds was the pitches were too wet.

    And yes, I work at a state school.
    A huge number of people work weekends. It's hardly even worth commenting on. Anyone who thinks working on a Saturday or Sunday is onerous needs to explain that to some shop workers (who are not exactly overpaid).
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    the only reason I wasn't out for a chunk of yesterday with the thirds was the pitches were too wet

    I used to love it when the pitches were too wet when I was at school.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    Mr. Eagles, the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are Celts. So, surely, les Rosbif does refer to the Anglo-Saxons?

    Scots and Northern Irish... Celts?

    This Celtic myth (largely 19th century) that other than the English the British Isles is populated by Celtic peoples is, well, a myth.
    Scots is an Anglo-Saxon language.
    I thought the Scots came via Ireland? Does Gaelic have early English influences?
    I know a lot of Scottish nobility has Norman roots - what language did they speak.
    Is Scotland more English than the SNP have been letting on?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language

    "Scots is the Anglic language variety spoken in Lowland Scotland and parts of Ulster (where the local dialect is known as Ulster Scots).[7] It is sometimes called Lowland Scots to distinguish it from Scottish Gaelic"
    I still thought the Scots came from Ireland.
    Gaelic-speaking people, yes.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.

    Did they ever pursue Labour paedo Janner on behalf of his many victims?
    The Mirror says: We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-heist-leader-found-7196229

    So they've named Labour and LibDem MPs but not the Conservative one.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
    Shocking isn't it Mr. L. However, there is a difference between a GP surgery and a Hospital. Furthermore, as Mr. Wanderer has pointed out services such as are provided by my local GP Practice are by no means universal. Perhaps they should be.
    GPs are semi-private anyway, and in competition with other practices, so strong believers in market forces might claim they must be perfect. It is mildly interesting that some GPs, especially in rural areas, offer extended services including pharmacies and minor surgery.
    In my area a GP practice takes appointments some evenings in the week and part of the weekend. Appointments can be made on-line, saves trying to avoid a busy signal when calling the surgery. Everything seems to run very smoothly.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:
    Hold on. What happened to the hypothesis that cheap petrol favours the government? Maybe that is why Labour lost.

    But yes, it makes sense for Iran to flood the market since from their point of view, even at $5 a barrel, it is still more than the big fat zero they were getting before.
    Also it's a good way of getting at their arch enemy Saudi Arabia.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    The iPlayer docu-drama exclusive (BBC take on Netflix / Amazon Prime approach) on snooker in the 80's is quite a good watch. Barry Hearn character is very entertaining.

    Just watching it now.

    Delighted the Rocket won earlier this evening but wanted far more of a challenge. Only Mark WIlliams played well against him, Selby, Bingham and Hawkins all were well short of their best unfortunately this past week when coming up against Ronnie.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.

    Did they ever pursue Labour paedo Janner on behalf of his many victims?
    The Mirror says: We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-heist-leader-found-7196229

    So they've named Labour and LibDem MPs but not the Conservative one.
    Party-political snowball fights apart, it's just a really crappy basis for a story.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    perdix said:



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
    Shocking isn't it Mr. L. However, there is a difference between a GP surgery and a Hospital. Furthermore, as Mr. Wanderer has pointed out services such as are provided by my local GP Practice are by no means universal. Perhaps they should be.
    GPs are semi-private anyway, and in competition with other practices, so strong believers in market forces might claim they must be perfect. It is mildly interesting that some GPs, especially in rural areas, offer extended services including pharmacies and minor surgery.
    In my area a GP practice takes appointments some evenings in the week and part of the weekend. Appointments can be made on-line, saves trying to avoid a busy signal when calling the surgery. Everything seems to run very smoothly.

    We have on-line appointments but not evening or weekend.

    Seriously, why does this vary from place to place?

    Idea for Corbyn! Nationalise healthcare.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    I have read with interest all the comments on the European referendum over the past few weeks on here. I personally don't think it's that big a deal. Schengen has collapsed, free movement of labour will be under threat in due course, and despite the best efforts of the Eurocracy to prop up the Euro, its days are numbered....and this 86 year cycle is beckoning over the next 4 years:

    http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/41730

    It's just time for things to fall apart, irrespective of how the UK votes in the referendum. I expect that dear boy events dear boy will overtake and supercede the outcome of the referendum in fairly short order.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    Wanderer said:

    perdix said:



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
    Shocking isn't it Mr. L. However, there is a difference between a GP surgery and a Hospital. Furthermore, as Mr. Wanderer has pointed out services such as are provided by my local GP Practice are by no means universal. Perhaps they should be.
    GPs are semi-private anyway, and in competition with other practices, so strong believers in market forces might claim they must be perfect. It is mildly interesting that some GPs, especially in rural areas, offer extended services including pharmacies and minor surgery.
    In my area a GP practice takes appointments some evenings in the week and part of the weekend. Appointments can be made on-line, saves trying to avoid a busy signal when calling the surgery. Everything seems to run very smoothly.

    We have on-line appointments but not evening or weekend.

    Seriously, why does this vary from place to place?

    Idea for Corbyn! Nationalise healthcare.
    The fact all GP surgeries don't have online booking is a total disgrace in this day and age. What service these days doesn't have online booking? You could hook up a simple system in just a few days.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    Interesting

    Free economics seminars for the public will be held by Labour across the UK in an attempt to break away from “Westminster-dominated views” about public finances.

    John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, is launching the “New Economics” events in a bid to get members of the public talking about economic ideas in the hope they will inform Labour policy.

    The events will include seminars and expert panels, including members
    of Labour’s economic advisory group, such as Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, and leading economists Mariana Mazzucato and Ha-Joon Chang.

    Topics up for debate include inequality, technology and work, and the strategic state before a national conference on economics is held by McDonnell in May.

    http://goo.gl/t9R2BG

    Will they include readings from Mao's little red book?
    "will they include readings from Mao's little red book" and how tens of millions starved to death in the struggle for egalitarianism?

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    perdix said:

    Interesting

    Free economics seminars for the public will be held by Labour across the UK in an attempt to break away from “Westminster-dominated views” about public finances.

    John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, is launching the “New Economics” events in a bid to get members of the public talking about economic ideas in the hope they will inform Labour policy.

    The events will include seminars and expert panels, including members
    of Labour’s economic advisory group, such as Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, and leading economists Mariana Mazzucato and Ha-Joon Chang.

    Topics up for debate include inequality, technology and work, and the strategic state before a national conference on economics is held by McDonnell in May.

    http://goo.gl/t9R2BG

    Will they include readings from Mao's little red book?
    "will they include readings from Mao's little red book" and how tens of millions starved to death in the struggle for egalitarianism?

    Actually I think there's the core of a good idea in that.

    McDonnell will fuck it up, no doubt.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    I see the Guardian and BBC are having an NHS love-in week.

    A portrait of the National Health Service: 'It's almost like a religion'

    Is the headline. I do find it really bizarre the way some people see it as some sort of religion / cult, as if no other country has healthcare (and in many countries better healthcare) and it must be worshipped.

    Just weird to me. I pay my taxes, I get a service, just like the bins being emptied etc. It good at some things, terrible at others. I neither worship or hate it and it is no miracle, there are alternatives that work in other countries that don't involve an NHS and which people get very good healthcare and it works without this cult like worshipping. Vast amounts of money go in and a service comes out, it isn't water into wine.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    WTI crude has dropped by more than 2% in the first five minutes of trading after the weekend break:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/energy
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Wanderer said:

    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.

    Did they ever pursue Labour paedo Janner on behalf of his many victims?
    The Mirror says: We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-heist-leader-found-7196229

    So they've named Labour and LibDem MPs but not the Conservative one.
    Party-political snowball fights apart, it's just a really crappy basis for a story.
    The same allegation has been made by two people, seven years apart. Whether it is true or not is another matter, but the Mirror has not named the alleged perpetrator. It is newsworthy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 17
    The migrants are also concerned that if they move into the new facility, they will be forced to apply for asylum in France, according to volunteer aid workers.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12104253/Calais-bulldozers-burned-and-containers-graffitied-ahead-of-Jungle-clearing.html

    My question to these people is, that rarely gets asked, why wouldn't you if you are that desperate (not buying the don't speak the language, it isn't exactly impossible to learn French)...and secondly why aren't France deporting those that aren't?
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.

    Did they ever pursue Labour paedo Janner on behalf of his many victims?
    The Mirror says: We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-heist-leader-found-7196229

    So they've named Labour and LibDem MPs but not the Conservative one.
    How convenient for the establishment that all the investigations into Janner have ceased upon his death. Its absolutely scandalous that all his alleged victims have got no independent investigation to get to the bottom of things. No guesses why the establishment don't want to rake any further over the muck.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited 2016 17
    If anyone wants to watch the Hillary/Sanders debate tonight, it's here;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2Nokoq1J4

    Starts @ 1am uk time.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    AndyJS said:

    WTI crude has dropped by more than 2% in the first five minutes of trading after the weekend break:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/energy

    Markets should bounce this week as current bearishness is over done, but things look pretty interesting for the week after next once we get the bounce out of the way. Things look to be pointing into mid-February for a bottom of some sort. But this is a 'false' move lower in stocks. Once the sovereign debt crisis gets underway, then US stocks will be a great buy. I'm looking around the 13,000 area on the Dow, that will be a great buying opportunity once capital starts flowing out of the bond market and into stocks. The wild ride has just begun, finally its time........its time.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    hunchman said:

    I have read with interest all the comments on the European referendum over the past few weeks on here. I personally don't think it's that big a deal. Schengen has collapsed, free movement of labour will be under threat in due course, and despite the best efforts of the Eurocracy to prop up the Euro, its days are numbered....and this 86 year cycle is beckoning over the next 4 years:

    http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/41730

    It's just time for things to fall apart, irrespective of how the UK votes in the referendum. I expect that dear boy events dear boy will overtake and supercede the outcome of the referendum in fairly short order.

    If the UK votes out by 50.1% to 49.9% it'll undoubtedly be down to Merkel's recent decisions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    I see the Guardian and BBC are having an NHS love-in week.

    A portrait of the National Health Service: 'It's almost like a religion'

    Is the headline. I do find it really bizarre the way some people see it as some sort of religion / cult, as if no other country has healthcare (and in many countries better healthcare) and it must be worshipped.

    Just weird to me. I pay my taxes, I get a service, just like the bins being emptied etc. It good at some things, terrible at others. I neither worship or hate it and it is no miracle, there are alternatives that work in other countries that don't involve an NHS and which people get very good healthcare and it works without this cult like worshipping. Vast amounts of money go in and a service comes out, it isn't water into wine.

    Agreed. If it's the best way of getting the service, great. If it is not, and simply throwing money at it won't achieve it (which it self evidently won't given it is continually in crisis mode it seems), we have to try other things, I'm open to most suggestions to try anyway.

    Good night
    hunchman said:

    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.

    Did they ever pursue Labour paedo Janner on behalf of his many victims?
    The Mirror says: We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-heist-leader-found-7196229

    So they've named Labour and LibDem MPs but not the Conservative one.
    How convenient for the establishment that all the investigations into Janner have ceased upon his death. Its absolutely scandalous that all his alleged victims have got no independent investigation to get to the bottom of things. No guesses why the establishment don't want to rake any further over the muck.
    Darn grim reaper, ruins everything.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.

    Did they ever pursue Labour paedo Janner on behalf of his many victims?
    The Mirror says: We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-heist-leader-found-7196229

    So they've named Labour and LibDem MPs but not the Conservative one.
    Party-political snowball fights apart, it's just a really crappy basis for a story.
    The same allegation has been made by two people, seven years apart. Whether it is true or not is another matter, but the Mirror has not named the alleged perpetrator. It is newsworthy.
    They are not independent sources though but members of the same gang, describing something that happened four decades ago (and which they had presumably discussed with each other in the interim).
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Pong said:

    If anyone wants to watch the Hillary/Sanders debate tonight, it's here;

    Starts @ 1am uk time.

    Thanks, I might watch that as I'm falling asleep :)

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited 2016 18
    "The problem of suspicious betting and match fixing is not going away. Eight of the players repeatedly flagged to the TIU over the past decade are due to play in the Australian Open which starts on Monday 18 January."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35319202
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited 2016 18
    There is growing speculation that Trump is going to be endorsed by the Iowa Governor Terry Brandstand, Trump posted this for Tuesday:


    Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 6h6 hours ago
    Big announcement in Ames, Iowa on Tuesday! You will not want to miss this rally! #Trump2016 https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10156540847600725
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    AndyJS said:

    hunchman said:

    I have read with interest all the comments on the European referendum over the past few weeks on here. I personally don't think it's that big a deal. Schengen has collapsed, free movement of labour will be under threat in due course, and despite the best efforts of the Eurocracy to prop up the Euro, its days are numbered....and this 86 year cycle is beckoning over the next 4 years:

    http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/41730

    It's just time for things to fall apart, irrespective of how the UK votes in the referendum. I expect that dear boy events dear boy will overtake and supercede the outcome of the referendum in fairly short order.

    If the UK votes out by 50.1% to 49.9% it'll undoubtedly be down to Merkel's recent decisions.
    She hasn't helped for sure, you can understand her wanting to soften her image after all the flack she took over the Greek crisis, politicians are only human after all. And I don't think for any moment she expected the nature of the refugees let in to be so overwhelmingly young male dominated, with all the problems those testosterone fuelled immigrants have brought.

    But Europe's malaise goes much much deeper. You can't bring a desired outcome by force, you have to bring the people with you, something which Brussels with its contempt for democracy has singularly failed to do. You can't vote out the Troika - Mme Legarde of the IMF unelected, Juncker unelected by the people, Mario Draghi unelected by the people. So what can citizens do of the EU to change things, when they don't feel remotely European. Who on here feels European before their national identity?! Historically, the only course open to people is revolution against the 'system' which simply isn't working for them. And the hairbrained idea of the Euro without a common Euro debt area, sorry but you can look back on the whole course of economic history and you won't find one currency that has prospered for long under those conditions.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Just heard today's news re. Corbyn:

    1. Trident without warheads.
    2. An accommodation with Argentina over Falklands.
    3. Open lines of communication with Islamic State.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    hunchman said:

    AndyJS said:

    hunchman said:

    I have read with interest all the comments on the European referendum over the past few weeks on here. I personally don't think it's that big a deal. Schengen has collapsed, free movement of labour will be under threat in due course, and despite the best efforts of the Eurocracy to prop up the Euro, its days are numbered....and this 86 year cycle is beckoning over the next 4 years:

    http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/41730

    It's just time for things to fall apart, irrespective of how the UK votes in the referendum. I expect that dear boy events dear boy will overtake and supercede the outcome of the referendum in fairly short order.

    If the UK votes out by 50.1% to 49.9% it'll undoubtedly be down to Merkel's recent decisions.
    She hasn't helped for sure, you can understand her wanting to soften her image after all the flack she took over the Greek crisis, politicians are only human after all. And I don't think for any moment she expected the nature of the refugees let in to be so overwhelmingly young male dominated, with all the problems those testosterone fuelled immigrants have brought.

    But Europe's malaise goes much much deeper. You can't bring a desired outcome by force, you have to bring the people with you, something which Brussels with its contempt for democracy has singularly failed to do. You can't vote out the Troika - Mme Legarde of the IMF unelected, Juncker unelected by the people, Mario Draghi unelected by the people. So what can citizens do of the EU to change things, when they don't feel remotely European. Who on here feels European before their national identity?! Historically, the only course open to people is revolution against the 'system' which simply isn't working for them. And the hairbrained idea of the Euro without a common Euro debt area, sorry but you can look back on the whole course of economic history and you won't find one currency that has prospered for long under those conditions.
    Have to agree with a lot of the sentiment. Much of the problem is those heading the eu project not bringing the populations along, or assuming tacit support in the good times is passionate support, and being stunned yet contemptuous when that view is challenged, and seeing it as something to stamp out when they can, not deal with.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    AndyJS said:

    Just heard today's news re. Corbyn:

    1. Trident without warheads.
    2. An accommodation with Argentina over Falklands.
    3. Open lines of communication with Islamic State.

    Don't forget secondary picketing..Stealing dividends from publicly traded companies who don't pay living wage... etc etc etc.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    The migrants are also concerned that if they move into the new facility, they will be forced to apply for asylum in France, according to volunteer aid workers.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12104253/Calais-bulldozers-burned-and-containers-graffitied-ahead-of-Jungle-clearing.html

    My question to these people is, that rarely gets asked, why wouldn't you if you are that desperate (not buying the don't speak the language, it isn't exactly impossible to learn French)...and secondly why aren't France deporting those that aren't?

    Because they have a perception that the benefits available to them in the UK are better than those on offer in France. Language is also an issue for some - they have some English and no French - so settling in the UK would be easier
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    AndyJS said:

    Just heard today's news re. Corbyn:

    1. Trident without warheads.
    2. An accommodation with Argentina over Falklands.
    3. Open lines of communication with Islamic State.

    The lack of a credible opposition right now when we desperately need it is really a travesty. Nature abhors a vacuum, sooner or later it will be filled somehow. But just how right now is very much open to question!
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    hunchman said:

    AndyJS said:

    Just heard today's news re. Corbyn:

    1. Trident without warheads.
    2. An accommodation with Argentina over Falklands.
    3. Open lines of communication with Islamic State.

    The lack of a credible opposition right now when we desperately need it is really a travesty. Nature abhors a vacuum, sooner or later it will be filled somehow. But just how right now is very much open to question!
    I think it is pretty much The House of Lords
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    edited 2016 18



    The fact all GP surgeries don't have online booking is a total disgrace in this day and age. What service these days doesn't have online booking? You could hook up a simple system in just a few days.

    Be careful what you wish for, my gp's has introduced online repeat perscriptions, I tried it last week ordered on tuesday, 2 working days to process then pick my percription up at the chemist is what was promised. Net result I drop in friday evening on the way back from work to pick up my perscription to find its not there.

    Naturally my gp's is not open on friday evening nor saturday, nor have they used the email address, nor the phone number they have for me to let me know something is up

    Net result I spend the weekend hoping I dont need my medication else I will be getting a white taxi with flashing lights to A&E

    I expect to spend most of tomorrow arguing with reception who will claim I never submitted it even though I have a copy of the thank you for ordering screen then no doubt I will be told I have to reorder and wait another 2 days

  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
    So what would you call a drop in health spending from 7.3% of GDP today (barely the average in the EU) to 6.7% in 2020/21. And that doesn't include the practical flatlining in spend on social care.

    http://www.health.org.uk/health-and-care-funding-nutshell
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    AndyJS said:

    Just heard today's news re. Corbyn:

    1. Trident without warheads.
    2. An accommodation with Argentina over Falklands.
    3. Open lines of communication with Islamic State.

    Don't forget secondary picketing..Stealing dividends from publicly traded companies who don't pay living wage... etc etc etc.
    I don't care about that, my strongest red line that he crossed is ISIS.
    " Open lines of communication with Islamic State"

    That goes too far for me, they should be killed not talked to, I call them human cockroaches and he's asking me to accommodate them even a single inch?
    Never.

    It's a good thing that I'm sure he'll lose the next election (by the same margin as 2015) or else I'll be nervous about voting Labour.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

    The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

    The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

    And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

    I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.
    I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors
    Which Francis? There were two Francis reports, something some on here seem to find hard to comprehend.

    And again, you miss the point. We cannot know how many people died (the trust's excuse for that is their own incompetence in coding). So let me put it another way: given the things you read about in the report, do you think it would have had no clinical effects (including deaths) on the victims unfortunate patients?
    Both of them. Yes it probably had an effect but as you say quantifiable. Hasn't stopped Lansley and Hunt from playing politics with the scandal though.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Moses_ said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris A So you wake up this morning with severe chest pains short of breath, sweating, feeling faint but you wont go to Hospital because of something someone called Hunt has said..dont be a pillock..

    It's even got a name - the Hunt Effect http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/05/two-deaths-possibly-linked-to-hunt-effect-study-weekend-nhs-staffing
    Interesting.... Guardian and a sub sample of 40. Mmmmmmm.....Well got quite a few to go before they get anywhere near the numbers they killed at Stafford. Did they name that the Stafford Effect or didn't they bother as the wonderful NHS was actually responsible as was the Labour ministers of the time. Then we come to the attempted cover up.
    Actually it's in the BMJ. And how many do you think we're killed at Stafford? That was an early example of Tory spinhttps://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805
    You (and the OP) miss the point about Stafford. What happened was terrible, and the true number of excess deaths (if any) can never be ascertained. But that should not be used as an excuse to say everything was fine, or even to focus blame on the Tories, as you do above.

    The behaviour of staff to patients, relatives and even other staff, was terrible.

    The real crime about Stafford was that it was covered up and lessons were not learnt by the trust, yet alone the rest of the NHS. This allowed the awful practices to continue for many years.

    And it seems the lessons are still not being learnt, because learning them would involve criticising the NHS.

    I suggest you read the reports and perhaps learn something.
    I've read Francis unlike most posters on here and yes agree it was terrible. But I will not let Tory spin about number of excess deaths go uncorrected. Hunt is in the same business with the Junior doctors
    Hunt is killing junior doctors?
    No, presenting data as truth when to be generous it's at best spin and later found out to be unjustified. He's been caught out twice out - weekend mortality figures and stroke deaths at weekends.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    kle4 said:

    I see the Guardian and BBC are having an NHS love-in week.

    A portrait of the National Health Service: 'It's almost like a religion'

    Is the headline. I do find it really bizarre the way some people see it as some sort of religion / cult, as if no other country has healthcare (and in many countries better healthcare) and it must be worshipped.

    Just weird to me. I pay my taxes, I get a service, just like the bins being emptied etc. It good at some things, terrible at others. I neither worship or hate it and it is no miracle, there are alternatives that work in other countries that don't involve an NHS and which people get very good healthcare and it works without this cult like worshipping. Vast amounts of money go in and a service comes out, it isn't water into wine.

    Agreed. If it's the best way of getting the service, great. If it is not, and simply throwing money at it won't achieve it (which it self evidently won't given it is continually in crisis mode it seems), we have to try other things, I'm open to most suggestions to try anyway.

    Good night
    hunchman said:

    watford30 said:

    It doesn't appear the Mirror have learned from the cases of McApline, Britton etc.

    The Mirror know exactly what they're doing.

    Did they ever pursue Labour paedo Janner on behalf of his many victims?
    The Mirror says: We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hatton-garden-heist-leader-found-7196229

    So they've named Labour and LibDem MPs but not the Conservative one.
    How convenient for the establishment that all the investigations into Janner have ceased upon his death. Its absolutely scandalous that all his alleged victims have got no independent investigation to get to the bottom of things. No guesses why the establishment don't want to rake any further over the muck.
    Darn grim reaper, ruins everything.
    They have got the Goddard inquiry.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Sacked shadow cabinet minister Michael Dugher warns Labour will face electoral oblivion if the party abandons support for Britain's independent nuclear deterrent, in his first speech since losing his job"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12103169/Michael-Dugher-attacks-Jeremy-Corbyn-over-Trident-disaster.html
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    "Just a bonus"

    The third week of 2016 is already off to a poor start, as the price of Brent crude oil falls below $28 a barrel for the first time since December 1, 2003.

    http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/01/18/brent-oil-breaks-under-28/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    The vault raid was in 1971. 45 years ago.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    Also sudden modesty when it comes to the individual:

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But not his party........
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    The vault raid was in 1971. 45 years ago.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    Also sudden modesty when it comes to the individual:

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But not his party........
    Since the story names Labour and LibDems, it is not really clear why Tories think their party is hard done by.

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    The vault raid was in 1971. 45 years ago.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    Also sudden modesty when it comes to the individual:

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But not his party........
    Since the story names Labour and LibDems, it is not really clear why Tories think their party is hard done by.

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.
    Why the modesty? The Mirror is happy to name deceased Labour & Lib Dem politicians (though they came late to the Jenner allegations) - perhaps nervousness over a single sourced career criminal Front Page smear splash?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    The vault raid was in 1971. 45 years ago.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    Also sudden modesty when it comes to the individual:

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But not his party........
    Since the story names Labour and LibDems, it is not really clear why Tories think their party is hard done by.

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.
    Why the modesty? The Mirror is happy to name deceased Labour & Lib Dem politicians (though they came late to the Jenner allegations) - perhaps nervousness over a single sourced career criminal Front Page smear splash?
    Dead men can't sue for libel; the claim is doubly sourced; dunno. But if the man concerned is not named, how is he smeared?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234

    "Just a bonus"

    The third week of 2016 is already off to a poor start, as the price of Brent crude oil falls below $28 a barrel for the first time since December 1, 2003.

    http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/01/18/brent-oil-breaks-under-28/

    Is it now in "Brucie Bonus" territory? :D:p
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    watford30 said:

    The Mirror front page is troubling for at least two different reasons.

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/688848521223622656

    Nice smear by The Mirror. Wrong on many levels.

    The vault raid was in 1971. 45 years ago.

    And taking the word of the criminal named. Are they serious?
    Also sudden modesty when it comes to the individual:

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But not his party........
    Since the story names Labour and LibDems, it is not really clear why Tories think their party is hard done by.

    We are not naming the politician, who has since died and was never publicly linked to allegations of child sexual abuse.

    But we have passed details to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, which is set to examine claims against Labour peer Lord Janner, who died before facing trial for child sexual abuse, and Lib Dem MP Cyril Smith, whose paedophilia was exposed after his death.
    Why the modesty? The Mirror is happy to name deceased Labour & Lib Dem politicians (though they came late to the Jenner allegations) - perhaps nervousness over a single sourced career criminal Front Page smear splash?
    Dead men can't sue for libel; the claim is doubly sourced; dunno. But if the man concerned is not named, how is he smeared?
    Only one source on the (un)named politician - why do you think the Mirror lacked the courage to name him? But were eager to name his party?
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Pong said:

    If anyone wants to watch the Hillary/Sanders debate tonight, it's here;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2Nokoq1J4

    Starts @ 1am uk time.

    Personal reaction:

    Hillary is robotic, doesn't connect
    Sanders is not Presidential, shouts too much
    O'Malley blends into the background
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Wanderer said:

    Pong said:

    If anyone wants to watch the Hillary/Sanders debate tonight, it's here;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2Nokoq1J4

    Starts @ 1am uk time.

    Personal reaction:

    Hillary is robotic, doesn't connect
    Sanders is not Presidential, shouts too much
    O'Malley blends into the background
    Does that mean a GOP win this year in your opinion?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    edited 2016 18
    AndyJS said:

    twitter.com/TIME/status/688913709075419136

    It wasn't clear if it was an additional income tax, or a wealth tax. Unless I am being blind...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited 2016 18
    Edit: deleted.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited 2016 18
    Oil is now the same price as 1974 when you adjust for inflation.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,250
    Chris_A said:


    Which Francis? There were two Francis reports, something some on here seem to find hard to comprehend.

    And again, you miss the point. We cannot know how many people died (the trust's excuse for that is their own incompetence in coding). So let me put it another way: given the things you read about in the report, do you think it would have had no clinical effects (including deaths) on the victims unfortunate patients?

    Both of them. Yes it probably had an effect but as you say quantifiable. Hasn't stopped Lansley and Hunt from playing politics with the scandal though.
    I'm not sure you're being sensible in trying to direct fire at Lansley and Hunt over Stafford. You might do better to focus your anger on Labour, and especially Burnham who did everything he could to prevent a public inquiry. To the extent he regrets the public inquiry because of the reputational damage it caused the failed trust.

    That's the sort of man Labour would put in charge of health: someone who puts the reputation of a failed trust ahead of patient safety. Compared to that piece of slime, Lansley and Hunt are saints.

    And do you mean 'unquantifiable', rather than 'quantifiable' ?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    Chris_A said:



    With who?

    Our GP practice has been running surgeries on Saturdays for some while now. It seems to be very popular with people who work during the week. The practice also runs occasional campaign days on a Saturday too, e.g flu jabs, blood pressure checks, they are very well attended and actually good fun as the usual formalities are forgotten and it turns into much more of a community event.

    No doubt such practices are all part of a wicked Tory plot to dismantle the NHS.
    You are saying the surgery opens on Saturday even without Jeremy Hunt's new contract. I don't see how that can be possible. Surely we've all seen ambulances lined up outside hospitals, taking patients home so the NHS can shut down for the weekend.
    So what would you call a drop in health spending from 7.3% of GDP today (barely the average in the EU) to 6.7% in 2020/21. And that doesn't include the practical flatlining in spend on social care.

    http://www.health.org.uk/health-and-care-funding-nutshell
    I can't do the calculations in my head at this time of the morning, but I suspect that 'cut' is actually a rise in real terms or else you would not have put it in terms of GDP.

  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    "For me the most striking from the report is the section that says the [Labour] party’s failed to connect with demographic groups in the centre. It isn’t a controversial thing to say that Jeremy Corbyn is more left wing than Ed Miliband, so I’m not sure how Corbyn will connect with demographic groups in the centre."

    What amazed me was that this fact was pointed out over the summer and the response was, typically "we don't care, its not important, we'll find 6 million people who just haven't bothered to vote"

    How's that working out for you?
This discussion has been closed.