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I agree, as barmy as it seems the Corbynites must believe Corbynism has legs.HurstLlama said:That is certainly the perceived wisdom, but why? What is the point of taking over the Labour Party if in the process you make it unelectable? That makes no sense to me.
At the very least are they not banking on achieving power because the pendulum must swing?
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@Speedy: this is a very interesting article on Juppe vs Sarkozy - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c8ae84d6-07b2-11e5-a58f-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3wQ6CoCkd0
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Winning even the Labour leadership contest seemed preposterous when they set out under Corbyn. Having achieved that, why wouldn't they think anything was possible, however much things seemed stacked against that possibility?glw said:
I agree, as barmy as it seems the Corbynites must believe Corbynism has legs.HurstLlama said:That is certainly the perceived wisdom, but why? What is the point of taking over the Labour Party if in the process you make it unelectable? That makes no sense to me.
At the very least are they not banking on achieving power because the pendulum must swing?
And if it did fail, at least they tried to present their 'true' Labour vision for once I guess.0 -
But as Southam says their whole raison d'etre for 30 years has been trying to win control of the party. Unlike the 80s there is no active or creative left in local Government (remember that Blunkett was regarded as a radical leftist in those days for example).glw said:
I agree, as barmy as it seems the Corbynites must believe Corbynism has legs.HurstLlama said:That is certainly the perceived wisdom, but why? What is the point of taking over the Labour Party if in the process you make it unelectable? That makes no sense to me.
At the very least are they not banking on achieving power because the pendulum must swing?
Labour in local Government is almost entirely 'social democrat' now. Since the fall of the Berlin wall far leftisim is lifestyle identity politics and how it makes you feel not whether you achieve anything. Corbyn chimed with that mood perfectly and the combination of old leftists and twitter social justice warriors is killing the party.
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Indeed - he is in fact a distant relative of a saint.notme said:
very much a christian i believe....Sunil_Prasannan said:Vaz isn't a Muslim, But he did take part in Rushdie demos:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Vaz
I think this is one of the more remarkable thinks about British society - people can complete pillocks without being muslim. Its worth remembering.
I can well see the reasons why Harman broke the rules to appoint him Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee - but how is it that he is still in charge?0 -
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It certainly wasn't my intention to give that impression, Mr. Clare. I think that Mrs. Bucket's appointment is completely irrelevant as is just about every other appointment made by Corbyn to his Shadow Cabinet. Who gives a flying f**k what any of them say? They aren't going to get near the reins of power to implement anything, at least not in the foreseeable future.SimonStClare said:HurstLlama said:
I rather think that most squaddies past and present have not been enamoured with Labour Party Defence Secretaries, actual or shadow, for a very long time. Not that Cameron and Co are high on their Christmas card list, either.SimonStClare said:
Only my opinion, but I suspect Military personnel past and present will be disgusted that Hyacinth Bucket is now the shadow defence secretary.
Every Conservative administration, with the possible exception of Heath, has cut defence almost as its first priority on gaining office. Cameron has not just come up with the usual cuts he has gone further, had two bites at the cherry, made promises and broke them (especially as regards the military covenant), and got his sidekick to fiddle the books so he can claim he is spending more on defence than he actually is.
Not your intention I'm sure, but you sound like an apologist for Ms Bucket’s appointment.
Looking at defence in particular what is the old trout going to come up with anyway? The armed forces should be cut even further? Cameron will probably agree, the next round of cuts is already penciled in for 2020. We are going to build four new submarines to carry Trident and maintain the CASD, the majority in the House is already there for that so Corbyn's and Bucket's views don't matter.0 -
I had no idea he was so...flawed. He seems reasonable and effective in post, on TV anyway, and my Labour contacts (such as they are) think he's a good figure.flightpath01 said:
Indeed - he is in fact a distant relative of a saint.notme said:
very much a christian i believe....Sunil_Prasannan said:Vaz isn't a Muslim, But he did take part in Rushdie demos:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Vaz
I think this is one of the more remarkable thinks about British society - people can complete pillocks without being muslim. Its worth remembering.
I can well see the reasons why Harman broke the rules to appoint him Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee - but how is it that he is still in charge?0 -
Well obviously we can see that it is a hugely more challenging task to win a general election compared to the Labour leadership with some very silly rules and daft nominations. But yes you can sort of see why they think "we got this far, let's go for it." It will probably turn out about as well as Operation Barbarossa ultimately did, but they don't realise that yet.kle4 said:Winning even the Labour leadership contest seemed preposterous when they set out under Corbyn. Having achieved that, why wouldn't they think anything was possible, however much things seemed stacked against that possibility?
And if it did fail, at least they tried to present their 'true' Labour vision for once I guess.0 -
Another attempt to form a Unionist party in Scotland.HYUFD said:'A number of Glasgow-based veterans of the campaign to keep Scotland in Britain have launched a new party ahead of May’s elections to the Scottish Parliament, The Scotsman reports.
Properly titled ‘A Better Britain – Unionist Party’, the group seems intended to offer a home to Labour-leaning unionists who can’t bring themselves to make the jump to the Scottish Conservatives.
It combines a staunchly unionist constitutional position, including opposition to new powers and restoration of pre-2007 Scottish Executive branding, with a distinctly centrist policy platform including a 50p higher rate of income tax.
The Unionist Party plans to concentrate on a small number of areas and only contest list seats, to assuage concerns that it might split the vote.'
http://www.scotsman.com/news/better-together-party-to-contest-holyrood-2016-election-1-3991779
No it won't be.Speedy said:
That could be a new development in scotland.HYUFD said:'A number of Glasgow-based veterans of the campaign to keep Scotland in Britain have launched a new party ahead of May’s elections to the Scottish Parliament, The Scotsman reports.
Properly titled ‘A Better Britain – Unionist Party’, the group seems intended to offer a home to Labour-leaning unionists who can’t bring themselves to make the jump to the Scottish Conservatives.
It combines a staunchly unionist constitutional position, including opposition to new powers and restoration of pre-2007 Scottish Executive branding, with a distinctly centrist policy platform including a 50p higher rate of income tax.
The Unionist Party plans to concentrate on a small number of areas and only contest list seats, to assuage concerns that it might split the vote.'
http://www.scotsman.com/news/better-together-party-to-contest-holyrood-2016-election-1-39917790 -
The officer classes and defence companies occasionally prefer Labour Defence Secretaries: they go native and give the brass everything they ask for, even if it's ridiculous (FRES, Nimrod). Conservative ones have the virtue of being more cynical and actually demanding results.HurstLlama said:I rather think that most squaddies past and present have not been enamoured with Labour Party Defence Secretaries, actual or shadow, for a very long time. Not that Cameron and Co are high on their Christmas card list, either.
Every Conservative administration, with the possible exception of Heath, has cut defence almost as its first priority on gaining office. Cameron has not just come up with the usual cuts he has gone further, had two bites at the cherry, made promises and broke them (especially as regards the military covenant), and got his sidekick to fiddle the books so he can claim he is spending more on defence than he actually is.
However, the Corbynites do seem to be sui generis...
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Is she wearing biking leathers?TheScreamingEagles said:The Abbott interview
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugIKeG7AChI0 -
I think she hopes by speeeeakkkkkking sooooooo slowwwwwlllyyy Evan will just get bored or forget the question and / or time will run out for the interview.TheScreamingEagles said:The Abbott interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugIKeG7AChI
Evan....Evvvvvann....Evvvvvvvaaannnnnnnnn....0 -
Yes, its a coded reference to her trip to East Germany with the boss.flightpath01 said:
Is she wearing biking leathers?TheScreamingEagles said:The Abbott interview
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugIKeG7AChI0 -
We are maintaining defence spending at 2% we are buying more equipment for the SAS we are committing to and spending more on drones and intelligence. We spend more on defence than virtually any other country in the world. We inherited an absolute shambles from labour.HurstLlama said:
It certainly wasn't my intention to give that impression, Mr. Clare. I think that Mrs. Bucket's appointment is completely irrelevant as is just about every other appointment made by Corbyn to his Shadow Cabinet. Who gives a flying f**k what any of them say? They aren't going to get near the reins of power to implement anything, at least not in the foreseeable future.SimonStClare said:HurstLlama said:
I rather think that most squaddies past and present have not been enamoured with Labour Party Defence Secretaries, actual or shadow, for a very long time. Not that Cameron and Co are high on their Christmas card list, either.SimonStClare said:
Only my opinion, but I suspect Military personnel past and present will be disgusted that Hyacinth Bucket is now the shadow defence secretary.
Every Conservative administration, with the possible exception of Heath, has cut defence almost as its first priority on gaining office. Cameron has not just come up with the usual cuts he has gone further, had two bites at the cherry, made promises and broke them (especially as regards the military covenant), and got his sidekick to fiddle the books so he can claim he is spending more on defence than he actually is.
Not your intention I'm sure, but you sound like an apologist for Ms Bucket’s appointment.
Looking at defence in particular what is the old trout going to come up with anyway? The armed forces should be cut even further? Cameron will probably agree, the next round of cuts is already penciled in for 2020. We are going to build four new submarines to carry Trident and maintain the CASD, the majority in the House is already there for that so Corbyn's and Bucket's views don't matter.
Your comparison of Lady Nugee with the conservatives is crass. But no surprise.
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Just catching up with today's events. I note the treacherous Benn is still shadow Foreign Sec.0
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Just to check - how did today's resigners vote on Syria ?0
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Mr Llama, kindly not use my post as a conduit for your pet peeves. Thanks in advance.HurstLlama said:
It certainly wasn't my intention to give that impression, Mr. Clare. I think that Mrs. Bucket's appointment is completely irrelevant as is just about every other appointment made by Corbyn to his Shadow Cabinet. Who gives a flying f**k what any of them say? They aren't going to get near the reins of power to implement anything, at least not in the foreseeable future.SimonStClare said:HurstLlama said:
I rather think that most squaddies past and present have not been enamoured with Labour Party Defence Secretaries, actual or shadow, for a very long time. Not that Cameron and Co are high on their Christmas card list, either.SimonStClare said:
Only my opinion, but I suspect Military personnel past and present will be disgusted that Hyacinth Bucket is now the shadow defence secretary.
Every Conservative administration, with the possible exception of Heath, has cut defence almost as its first priority on gaining office. Cameron has not just come up with the usual cuts he has gone further, had two bites at the cherry, made promises and broke them (especially as regards the military covenant), and got his sidekick to fiddle the books so he can claim he is spending more on defence than he actually is.
Not your intention I'm sure, but you sound like an apologist for Ms Bucket’s appointment.
Looking at defence in particular what is the old trout going to come up with anyway? The armed forces should be cut even further? Cameron will probably agree, the next round of cuts is already penciled in for 2020. We are going to build four new submarines to carry Trident and maintain the CASD, the majority in the House is already there for that so Corbyn's and Bucket's views don't matter.0 -
Juppe may be more popular with the public but he has no chance of beating Sarkozy amongst Republican grassrootsrcs1000 said:@Speedy: this is a very interesting article on Juppe vs Sarkozy - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c8ae84d6-07b2-11e5-a58f-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3wQ6CoCkd
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Six British universities are facing an inquiry after the controversial human rights group Cage used meetings on campus to encourage the “sabotage” of the government’s official anti-extremism programme.
Cage attended nine talks at six British universities between September and November 2015, eight of which included Mr Begg.
The University of Manchester, the University of Birmingham and King’s College London, all members of the he Russell Group of elite universities, allowed Cage on campus four times between them; London University’s School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) had three Cage events and Bradford University and East London University had one each.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12085765/Six-universities-face-inquiry-over-Cage-campus-talks.html0 -
Weren't FRES and the Nimrod MPA upgrade kicked off under the Major government? Fair comment that the decision to cancel the latter should have been taken a lot earlier (the people who came up the with plan to start with should have been shot) but to cancel it without a replacement MPA was plain stupid.viewcode said:
The officer classes and defence companies occasionally prefer Labour Defence Secretaries: they go native and give the brass everything they ask for, even if it's ridiculous (FRES, Nimrod). Conservative ones have the virtue of being more cynical and actually demanding results.HurstLlama said:I rather think that most squaddies past and present have not been enamoured with Labour Party Defence Secretaries, actual or shadow, for a very long time. Not that Cameron and Co are high on their Christmas card list, either.
Every Conservative administration, with the possible exception of Heath, has cut defence almost as its first priority on gaining office. Cameron has not just come up with the usual cuts he has gone further, had two bites at the cherry, made promises and broke them (especially as regards the military covenant), and got his sidekick to fiddle the books so he can claim he is spending more on defence than he actually is.
However, the Corbynites do seem to be sui generis...
That decision was probably down the RAF's fighter/bomber pilot dominance. A very old problem. Look for example at the History of Coastal command in WW2. We nearly starved, and lost the war, because the RAF would not allocate aircraft and resources to where they were needed as opposed to their grand scheme to bomb Germany into submission.0 -
Your blind defence of HMG's plans regardless of their effectiveness or even veracity comes as no surprise to me either.flightpath01 said:
We are maintaining defence spending at 2% we are buying more equipment for the SAS we are committing to and spending more on drones and intelligence. We spend more on defence than virtually any other country in the world. We inherited an absolute shambles from labour.HurstLlama said:
It certainly wasn't my intention to give that impression, Mr. Clare. I think that Mrs. Bucket's appointment is completely irrelevant as is just about every other appointment made by Corbyn to his Shadow Cabinet. Who gives a flying f**k what any of them say? They aren't going to get near the reins of power to implement anything, at least not in the foreseeable future.SimonStClare said:HurstLlama said:
I rather think that most squaddies past and present have not been enamoured with Labour Party Defence Secretaries, actual or shadow, for a very long time. Not that Cameron and Co are high on their Christmas card list, either.SimonStClare said:
Only my opinion, but I suspect Military personnel past and present will be disgusted that Hyacinth Bucket is now the shadow defence secretary.
Every Conservative administration, with the possible exception of Heath, has cut defence almost as its first priority on gaining office. Cameron has not just come up with the usual cuts he has gone further, had two bites at the cherry, made promises and broke them (especially as regards the military covenant), and got his sidekick to fiddle the books so he can claim he is spending more on defence than he actually is.
Not your intention I'm sure, but you sound like an apologist for Ms Bucket’s appointment.
Looking at defence in particular what is the old trout going to come up with anyway? The armed forces should be cut even further? Cameron will probably agree, the next round of cuts is already penciled in for 2020. We are going to build four new submarines to carry Trident and maintain the CASD, the majority in the House is already there for that so Corbyn's and Bucket's views don't matter.
Your comparison of Lady Nugee with the conservatives is crass. But no surprise.
You may wish to consider how, if we spend so much, Japan has armed forces both larger and better equipped than our own.0 -
Japan is twice the size of the UK on any measureHurstLlama said:
Your blind defence of HMG's plans regardless of their effectiveness or even veracity comes as no surprise to me either.flightpath01 said:
We are maintaining defence spending at 2% we are buying more equipment for the SAS we are committing to and spending more on drones and intelligence. We spend more on defence than virtually any other country in the world. We inherited an absolute shambles from labour.HurstLlama said:
It certainly wasn't my intention to give that impression, Mr. Clare. I think that Mrs. Bucket's appointment is completely irrelevant as is just about every other appointment made by Corbyn to his Shadow Cabinet. Who gives a flying f**k what any of them say? They aren't going to get near the reins of power to implement anything, at least not in the foreseeable future.SimonStClare said:HurstLlama said:
I rather think that most squaddies past and present have not been enamoured with Labour Party Defence Secretaries, actual or shadow, for a very long time. Not that Cameron and Co are high on their Christmas card list, either.SimonStClare said:
Only my opinion, but I suspect Military personnel past and present will be disgusted that Hyacinth Bucket is now the shadow defence secretary.
Every Conservative administration, with the possible exception of Heath, has cut defence almost as its first priority on gaining office. Cameron has not just come up with the usual cuts he has gone further, had two bites at the cherry, made promises and broke them (especially as regards the military covenant), and got his sidekick to fiddle the books so he can claim he is spending more on defence than he actually is.
Not your intention I'm sure, but you sound like an apologist for Ms Bucket’s appointment.
Looking at defence in particular what is the old trout going to come up with anyway? The armed forces should be cut even further? Cameron will probably agree, the next round of cuts is already penciled in for 2020. We are going to build four new submarines to carry Trident and maintain the CASD, the majority in the House is already there for that so Corbyn's and Bucket's views don't matter.
Your comparison of Lady Nugee with the conservatives is crass. But no surprise.
You may wish to consider how, if we spend so much, Japan has armed forces both larger and better equipped than our own.0 -
Off topic: Can't believe Chris Gayle might be banned from BBL !0
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Seriously...I mean seriously. The guy is a twunk. He is a well known womanizer. But really....I mean really...What he said wasn't even that bad. It was more cringe worthy than anything else. Nothing worse than the terrible chat up lines guys try every weekend in bars around the world.Pulpstar said:Off topic: Can't believe Chris Gayle might be banned from BBL !
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No surprise — Jacqui Smith on Sky News Paper Review defending the idiotic decision to change exams to fit in with certain religious practices.0
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It's a while back now but I don't recall sitting exams on Good Friday, Eatser Monday, or Christmas Day.rcs1000 said:
I'm assuming we don't make any other religious exceptions for exams.AndyJS said:No surprise — Jacqui Smith on Sky News Paper Review defending the idiotic decision to change exams to fit in with certain religious practices.
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I notice that shock horror she has got herself the gig as head of a public sector organisation.AndyJS said:No surprise — Jacqui Smith on Sky News Paper Review defending the idiotic decision to change exams to fit in with certain religious practices.
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Yes: but if a Jewish child has an exam on Yom Kippur (for example), would they be able to sit it at a different time?Tom said:
It's a while back now but I don't recall sitting exams on Good Friday, Eatser Monday, or Christmas Day.rcs1000 said:
I'm assuming we don't make any other religious exceptions for exams.AndyJS said:No surprise — Jacqui Smith on Sky News Paper Review defending the idiotic decision to change exams to fit in with certain religious practices.
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Don't know. But in this case I think the story is that there is a 'window' in which they traditionally hold exams and as far as possible they are trying to hold the most common ones in the period where it doesn't overlap with Ramadan - albeit many are still held during Ramadan and he children have to site them. That doesn't on the face of it strike me as at all unreasonable.0
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As others have pointed out before, Labour are essentially f****d in the long-term because the diversity that obsesses them is destroying the consensus that used to exist on issues like welfare. David Goodhart's "progressive dilemma":
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/mar/27/why-left-wrong-mass-immigration0 -
Not sure I buy that. The model had begun to break down anyway due to wider pressures. It does undoubtedly cause problems for a traditional 'social democratic' model but not necessarily a left liberal politics. Despite being catastrophically bad at the last two elections they didn't lose the popular vote by as much as you might have expected because the changes affect the right as well. I suspect we become more fragmented generally but that doesn't create a secular trend towards any particular party. Lots of people have made the opposite argument in the states - at least at presidential level.AndyJS said:As others have pointed out before, Labour are essentially f****d in the long-term because the diversity that obsesses them is destroying the consensus that used to exist on issues like welfare. David Goodhart's "progressive dilemma":
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/mar/27/why-left-wrong-mass-immigration0 -
The whole Ramadan thing is just wrong. Not because we shouldn't accommodate genuine concerns - but that the teaching of mainstream Islam is that fasting is not required if it interrupts the education of the child.
So we are creating a solution to a problem that need not exist.
There will always be those who adhere to different, more extreme, sects - but we should not allow them to dictate public policy.
By reacting in the way that appears to be happening, it will only increase anti-Islamic sentiment. And it could all have been so easily avoided.0 -
Dugher:
Pat is a well-liked, experienced and intelligent campaigner who comes from a solid working class background.
These are qualities so sadly lacking amongst many of Jeremy Corbyn’s advisers in the ‘Islington set.’
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyns-reshuffle-been-like-7130013
And so a meme is (re?) born?0 -
O/T:
"Two creepy life-size dolls take to the Tube to launch Derren Brown’s psychological theme park ride"
http://metro.co.uk/2015/12/03/two-creepy-life-size-dolls-take-to-the-tube-to-launch-derren-browns-psychological-theme-park-ride-5542353/0 -
Meanwhile the Mail wonders about the suddenly bashful Keith Vaz:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3387823/Why-Keith-Vaz-deleted-Twitter-account-Mystery-Labour-MP-suddenly-vanished-social-media-trolled-users.html0 -
Tis a strange one. I guess there could be an innocent explanation, like he has being getting lots of abuse or somebody got access to his accounts and decided it would be highly amusing to delete them.CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Mail wonders about the suddenly bashful Keith Vaz:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3387823/Why-Keith-Vaz-deleted-Twitter-account-Mystery-Labour-MP-suddenly-vanished-social-media-trolled-users.html0 -
"as he was trolled by dozens of users."CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Mail wonders about the suddenly bashful Keith Vaz:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3387823/Why-Keith-Vaz-deleted-Twitter-account-Mystery-Labour-MP-suddenly-vanished-social-media-trolled-users.html
this sounds like an explanation, not "without explanation"
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I hope you are not accusing the Mail of lacking internal consistency and logic!dugarbandier said:
"as he was trolled by dozens of users."CarlottaVance said:Meanwhile the Mail wonders about the suddenly bashful Keith Vaz:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3387823/Why-Keith-Vaz-deleted-Twitter-account-Mystery-Labour-MP-suddenly-vanished-social-media-trolled-users.html
this sounds like an explanation, not "without explanation"0 -
It was inappropriate, but he was fined and I thought apologised, what more is needed.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seriously...I mean seriously. The guy is a twunk. He is a well known womanizer. But really....I mean really...What he said wasn't even that bad. It was more cringe worthy than anything else. Nothing worse than the terrible chat up lines guys try every weekend in bars around the world.Pulpstar said:Off topic: Can't believe Chris Gayle might be banned from BBL !
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