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Keeping Andy Burnham is a good strategy if keeping people who are prepared to bend to every wind is considered important.Pulpstar said:
Keeping Andy Burnham at the top table is invaluable to this strategy.CD13 said:A smart move by Jezza.
His aim is not personal glory; it's to remake the Labour party in his image. This is what he was put on Earth for, but like changing the course of an ocean liner, you can't swing the wheel and start doing wheelies. It has to be slowly, slowly to boil the frogs and Red Tories within.
When the wind is against, you need to tack, but the destination remains the same.
The man will never hold high office in Britain given his flip flopping.
If Khan can be painted in the same light, Goldsmith will win London.0 -
Well said. We are very lucky to have it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.0 -
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.kle4 said:
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.Wanderer said:
The membership won't vote for him.HYUFD said:
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or twoDavidBrackenbury said:Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
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Mr. Mortimer, point of order: Burnham has already held high office. He was Health Secretary.0
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Labour won't agree to that because Labour needs the NHS to be divisive.Blue_rog said:
Alternatively, these former HM's could get together and hammer out a proposal that would stand a chance of being accepted by the whole house. This could be done on the QT and not revealed until everyone was happy with it.Sandpit said:
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.
Actually, I don't think it'd be a good idea. I dislike commissions of experts devising and imposing policies as that entirely cuts across the democratic system. For all that there are problems with the NHS being in the political realm, there is accountability that way. Whether it works very effectively is a different question but at least a health minister can't say 'not my fault; nothing to see; move along'. With the NHS in particular, it's hard enough as it is preventing producer capture. An autonomous commission running it would end up there in no time at all.0 -
So it's more hello sailor than screaming para from here on in ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.Alanbrooke said:
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Worst euphemism ever.Alanbrooke said:
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.0 -
Apols, I should have said again.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Mortimer, point of order: Burnham has already held high office. He was Health Secretary.
The way he has assimilated into Corbo's cabinet is hilarious.0 -
At the same time as Dave allows dissent in the real Cabinet.AlastairMeeks said:On topic, what a mess. What degree of dissent is now permitted among shadow cabinet members? Is there a Corbyn doctrine to explain this?
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I watched Burnhams speech yesterday..he is still useless..May bounced him off all the walls in the Chamber..0
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I liked Alan Coren's motto for the French Navy:Alanbrooke said:
So it's more hello sailor than screaming para from here on in ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.Alanbrooke said:
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Worst euphemism ever.Alanbrooke said:
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
A l'eau, c'est l'heure.0 -
On this pitch you seem to have maybe a dozen overs with the new ball and then batsmen have to get themselves out. We saw a similar clatter in the SA innings yesterday with the 3rd new ball before another century partnership.
That is 10 overs down. I think it is a little early to panic.0 -
Green mayoral candidate on R4 wants to shut city airport.
Doesn't think it will harm the economy.
What a tool.0 -
Mr. Observer, really?
I don't doubt you know more about the party than me, but it looks like Corbyn has more Shadow Cabinet control and there's no prospect of him being ousted. Where's the upside for the sane wing of Labour?0 -
I'm getting really fed up of having to keep demonstrating to lefties that capitalism has helped their people more than any socialist policies ever had.
They ought to pack up their little red books and head home!0 -
More drunken sailor.Alanbrooke said:
So it's more hello sailor than screaming para from here on in ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.Alanbrooke said:
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Worst euphemism ever.Alanbrooke said:
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.0 -
BBCLauraK
Likely a couple of shadow ministers may resign this morning over sacking of McFadden on terror comments0 -
Mr. Song, except that Cameron's policy and Conservative policy are the same thing, unlike Trident in Labour. Not to mention the fact the Conservatives aren't led by an idiot who thinks we should negotiate with ISIS/Daesh, or who is unhappy at the prospect of killing suicide bombers before they can commit terrorist atrocities.
If Labour tries to defend itself by comparing Corbyn with Cameron, the Conservative PR team will fear redundancy.
Mr. Mortimer, submissive obedience and an IngSoc-like ability to perform a volte-face at a moment's notice appears to Burnham's modus operandi. I'm sure he's a nice chap on a personal level, but I wouldn't trust him to be junior under-secretary for Fish.0 -
Thank you. DeliciousTOPPING said:
I liked Alan Coren's motto for the French Navy:Alanbrooke said:
So it's more hello sailor than screaming para from here on in ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.Alanbrooke said:
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Worst euphemism ever.Alanbrooke said:
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
A l'eau, c'est l'heure.
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Although we don't yet know whether one description of it is 'accurate'. The proof of that particular pudding will come in the eating.SquareRoot said:
preposterous.. in every sense of the word.. and here are a few synonyms to back it upTheScreamingEagles said:Paul Waugh
V signif. John McDonnell says Benn will be free to express view on free vote from backbenches, not frontbench, *while remaining* in ShadCab
absurd, ridiculous, foolish, stupid, ludicrous, farcical, laughable, comical, risible, hare-brained, asinine, inane, nonsensical, pointless, senseless, insane, unreasonable, irrational, illogical..0 -
....
or 'tune in turn on and opt out.....'AlastairMeeks said:On topic, what a mess. What degree of dissent is now permitted among shadow cabinet members? Is there a Corbyn doctrine to explain this?
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Oh
Robbie Travers @RobbieTravers 9h9 hours ago
Both Labour Ministers sacked, Pat McFadden and Michael Dugher, were members of Labour Friends of Israel.0 -
No, it really isn't...Plato_Says said:BBCLauraK
Likely a couple of shadow ministers may resign this morning over sacking of McFadden on terror comments0 -
We have to assume the membership is moving to the left though.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.kle4 said:
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.Wanderer said:
The membership won't vote for him.HYUFD said:
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or twoDavidBrackenbury said:Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.0 -
Staggers
Shadow defence minister Kevan Jones and shadow foreign affairs minister Stephen Doughty may resign today, Labour source tells me.0 -
I'm inclined to think this will be like D. Miliband's resignation in support of Purnell.Plato_Says said:BBCLauraK
Likely a couple of shadow ministers may resign this morning over sacking of McFadden on terror comments
But, supposing it isn't, who? Shadow ministers suggests not shadow cabinet?0 -
Long odds on that I'd say.TheScreamingEagles said:Staggers
Shadow defence minister Kevan Jones and shadow foreign affairs minister Stephen Doughty may resign today, Labour source tells me.0 -
Danny Finkelstein in the Times: 'Labour rejected David Miliband, lost under Ed Miliband and now they've chosen Ralph Miliband. Comrade Corbyn doesn't believe in Parliament. Labour's leader follows the views of Ralph Miliband, who argued that socialism relies more on grassroots than on MPs'0
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2 shadows with backbone? Seems wildly high to me.Plato_Says said:BBCLauraK
Likely a couple of shadow ministers may resign this morning over sacking of McFadden on terror comments
What on earth does Charlie Falconer think he is doing associating himself with this mess? Since Corbyn was too scared to sack him he really should walk.0 -
Han Dodges not impressed:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12082926/Spineless-Labour-moderates-can-appease-Jeremy-Corbyn-but-not-the-voters.html
And either the Telegraph photo editor's joke has passed me by - or its a c*ck up....0 -
Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.0 -
The nice, consensual, broad church, let's discuss Corbyn narrative is being shattered. His inability to lead is being horribly exposed. As is his hard left agenda. As I say, this is a long game that is all about the membership, most of which does still want a Labour party that can win elections. Nothing Corbyn has done since the reshuffle story broke has indicated he has any clue or real interest in Labour gaining power.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Observer, really?
I don't doubt you know more about the party than me, but it looks like Corbyn has more Shadow Cabinet control and there's no prospect of him being ousted. Where's the upside for the sane wing of Labour?
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That is, technically, precisely what the cabinet is there for.logical_song said:
At the same time as Dave allows dissent in the real Cabinet.AlastairMeeks said:On topic, what a mess. What degree of dissent is now permitted among shadow cabinet members? Is there a Corbyn doctrine to explain this?
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Robert Harris on the reshuffle 'the very definition of futility: a reshuffle of people doing imaginary jobs in a future government that will never exist. '0
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I made this point yesterday. It seemed to get Mr Palmer somewhat narked.....logical_song said:
At the same time as Dave allows dissent in the real Cabinet.AlastairMeeks said:On topic, what a mess. What degree of dissent is now permitted among shadow cabinet members? Is there a Corbyn doctrine to explain this?
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@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f0 -
If there is a challenge the membership of course cannot be consulted otherwise there is no point even launching one, Benn would have to be elected by MPs unopposed like Michael HowardWanderer said:
We have to assume the membership is moving to the left though.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.kle4 said:
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.Wanderer said:
The membership won't vote for him.HYUFD said:
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or twoDavidBrackenbury said:Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.0 -
We have North Korea testing nuclear weapons and the Tory Party accusing Labour of being a threat to national security. And Labour puts an anti-Trident Islington MP as its Shadow Defence Secretary. Talk about making things harder for yourself.0
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Phew!!!!0
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I think we've reached that point where a decision is going to have to be made by moderates about whether to stay in the cabinet or leave. The reshuffle has made Labour look even weaker on defence and foreign affairs, which is a pretty amazing feat in itself. That statement by McFadden is, and will be, toxic I think.0
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Thanks. Do you think it's possible that Corbyn will be ousted against his will?HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Beautiful dog.0 -
Mr. Manson, be fair. Corbyn also wants negotiations with genocidal, industrial-scale rapists who also crucify children and want to invade every country in the Middle East.
And is unhappy at the thought of shooting dead suicide bombers.
That's not merely difficult. That's harder than a man trapped on a desert island for 17 years being rescued by the Swedish Nymphomaniac Association yacht.0 -
This is yet another reason Benn & Co look pathetic. The Labour defence review is now by 2 unilateralists. Are they ok with that?HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.0 -
Haha. Back to that topic.HYUFD said:
If there is a challenge the membership of course cannot be consulted otherwise there is no point even launching one, Benn would have to be elected by MPs unopposed like Michael HowardWanderer said:
We have to assume the membership is moving to the left though.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.kle4 said:
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.Wanderer said:
The membership won't vote for him.HYUFD said:
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or twoDavidBrackenbury said:Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.
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Not yet. The period immediately after the EU referendum is the danger point - especially if May's elections don't go well. Dugher yesterday was laying out the electoral challenges from May which cannot realistically be met.Wanderer said:
Thanks. Do you think it's possible that Corbyn will be ousted against his will?HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Beautiful dog.0 -
As I was saying ...Scott_P said:@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f
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Precisely. The bottom line is that most Labour members are not on the hard left and want a Labour government. They may be stupid, but they're not Trots.HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
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What about the 3 quidders ?SouthamObserver said:
Precisely. The bottom line is that most Labour members are not on the hard left and want a Labour government. They may be stupid, but they're not Trots.HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.0 -
It's all about the members. Walking out in advance of review will not convince them that Benn & Co have Labour's best interests at heart. Staying put is much more likely to win hearts and minds.DavidL said:
This is yet another reason Benn & Co look pathetic. The Labour defence review is now by 2 unilateralists. Are they ok with that?HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
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Ouch http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12082926/Spineless-Labour-moderates-can-appease-Jeremy-Corbyn-but-not-the-voters.html
If, as Michael Dugher accurately stated on Monday, being shadow minister for paper clips is so important, good luck to them. They can continue to sit around the shadow cabinet table, convincing themselves what is in their best interests has again fallen into happy alignment with what is in the best interests of their party. And by doing so they are endorsing the reality that in the Labour party, in 2016, saying terrorists should be responsible for their actions is a sackable offence.
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I had been thinking that there is no way Corbyn himself wouldn't be on the ballot (either because it was decided he didn't need nominations or simply because he would get the nominations he needed).HenryGManson said:
Not yet. The period immediately after the EU referendum is the danger point - especially if May's elections don't go well. Dugher yesterday was laying out the electoral challenges from May which cannot realistically be met.Wanderer said:
Thanks. Do you think it's possible that Corbyn will be ousted against his will?HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Beautiful dog.
I can see, however, that:
Corbyn might not stand again if he has been challenged after an electoral collapse
The members might not vote him back in in those circumstances - the atmosphere would be very different from summer 2015
I am doubtful that he will really be seen to have failed in May though. So much depends on managing expectations. (Then again, that doesn't seem to be Milne's forte.)0 -
Indeed Howard replaced IDS having been seen to be loyalSouthamObserver said:
It's all about the members. Walking out in advance of review will not convince them that Benn & Co have Labour's best interests at heart. Staying put is much more likely to win hearts and minds.DavidL said:
This is yet another reason Benn & Co look pathetic. The Labour defence review is now by 2 unilateralists. Are they ok with that?HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.0 -
Either that, or he has demonstrated the convention that you can't have an infinite number of wishes as one wish is bollocks.....Morris_Dancer said:Beginning to suspect Osborne bought a job lot of magic lamps.
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"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed0 -
Most likely outcome.
Labour bleed all the way to 2020 then Jezza goes and someone equally useless takes over.
By 2030 they share a taxi with the LDs.0 -
Who is 'banging on' about Independence?
http://www.thenational.scot/news/nicola-sturgeon-puts-case-for-independence-at-the-heart-of-snps-election-campaign0 -
Both.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, Labour's got a leader who dislikes the anthem and a Defence spokesman who dislikes the flag. Match made in socialist heaven.
Edited extra bit: actually, that's a shade unfair. Not all socialists are as bad as Corbyn.
Edited extra bit 2: Mr. Eagles, that's bloody ridiculous. Benn's busy throwing away all the kudos he earnt for his Commons speech on Syria. Damned fool, or damned coward?
Benn's lost all credibility, and now looks as if he's merely Corbyn's gimp, happy to sit at his masters feet whilst clinging on to any kudos for being a Shadow Minister.0 -
It will. But the question begging to be asked in your first sentence is 'how?'. Can the PLP show enough discipline to do a Brown / Howard and only nomination one person? If not, or if Corbyn ends up on the ballot by default, how do they choose to fire what is their only shot so as to ensure that the membership-and-friends don't make the same mistake again? Above all, how do they kick the process off?HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.0 -
Broadly the same. There are not many Trots in this country, full stop. Labour is undoubtedly more left wing than it was, but it still has the capacity to be a broad church. The hard left is not only vile, it is also very bad at politics - as Corbyn, McDonnell etc are showing. In time they will be defeated again. That probably means at least nine more years of Tory rule, though. Moderates recognise that, I am sure. But there is no alternative strategy available. The membership (and, importantlt, the unions) is the battleground, not the country.TGOHF said:
What about the 3 quidders ?SouthamObserver said:
Precisely. The bottom line is that most Labour members are not on the hard left and want a Labour government. They may be stupid, but they're not Trots.HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
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"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed0 -
Indeed - most probably Ukip.kle4 said:
The Tories are not beloved - those votes will go somewhere, and millions remain, even if Labour are awful.TGOHF said:Most likely outcome.
Labour bleed all the way to 2020 then Jezza goes and someone equally useless takes over.
By 2030 they share a taxi with the LDs.0 -
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/684657980126662656FrancisUrquhart said:
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
EDIT: Anyone got any ideas who are the ones most likely to jump out of the remaining?0 -
Christ, I don't know who is worse - Corbyn or his opponents.Pauly said:
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/684657980126662656FrancisUrquhart said:
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
They're both as pathetic, and deserve each other.0 -
Here we go again. Days / weeks of briefing journalists that they are upset and angry and they "likely" to do something....and then we carry on as normal.Pauly said:
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/684657980126662656FrancisUrquhart said:
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
One day they will find the one backbone they share between the whole lot of them.0 -
Exactly. They're very good at mistaking whining to the media, for action.FrancisUrquhart said:
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed0 -
One of them might find a bit of one, and off they'll trot. Alone.FrancisUrquhart said:
Here we go again. Days / weeks of briefing journalists that they are upset and angry and they "likely" to do something....and then we carry on as normal.Pauly said:
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/684657980126662656FrancisUrquhart said:
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
One day they will find the one backbone they share between the whole lot of them.0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
Dan Hannan spot on again in this article0 -
Is it possible to get a restraining order on DavidL cricket comments during test matches?
If England do manage to lose this it will surely be the most devestating and humiliating defeat in the history of the game.0 -
Will exiling him to ConHome suffice ?SouthamObserver said:Is it possible to get a restraining order on DavidL cricket comments during test matches?
If England do manage to lose this it will surely be the most devestating and humiliating defeat in the history of the game.
Nothing will ever top Adelaide 2006.
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So Lady Burgee is the new ShadDefSec.TheScreamingEagles said:
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.Alanbrooke said:
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Worst euphemism ever.Alanbrooke said:
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgee
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But the left has even more control over the unions than it does over Labour, because hard-left types within unions are far more interested in trying to take control than average union bods who are just in it to support colleagues or moderate types for whom that political route doesn't offer much attraction.SouthamObserver said:
Broadly the same. There are not many Trots in this country, full stop. Labour is undoubtedly more left wing than it was, but it still has the capacity to be a broad church. The hard left is not only vile, it is also very bad at politics - as Corbyn, McDonnell etc are showing. In time they will be defeated again. That probably means at least nine more years of Tory rule, though. Moderates recognise that, I am sure. But there is no alternative strategy available. The membership (and, importantlt, the unions) is the battleground, not the country.TGOHF said:
What about the 3 quidders ?SouthamObserver said:
Precisely. The bottom line is that most Labour members are not on the hard left and want a Labour government. They may be stupid, but they're not Trots.HenryGManson said:Happy New Year.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.0 -
We are talking about people who are broadly speaking left-wing. UKIP isn't making a serious pitch for their votes.TGOHF said:
Indeed - most probably Ukip.kle4 said:
The Tories are not beloved - those votes will go somewhere, and millions remain, even if Labour are awful.TGOHF said:Most likely outcome.
Labour bleed all the way to 2020 then Jezza goes and someone equally useless takes over.
By 2030 they share a taxi with the LDs.0 -
I totally understand why the pb Tories are enjoying the Labour farce but please don't rest easy, the inevitable political ebb and flow is coming your way soon. Dan Hannan confirms what a couple of us on here have been saying for a while, a vote to a Remain is not for the status quo it's a whole new level of involvement.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.0 -
You are diverting your Labour-anxiety into cricket-anxiety this morning, I see.SouthamObserver said:Is it possible to get a restraining order on DavidL cricket comments during test matches?
If England do manage to lose this it will surely be the most devestating and humiliating defeat in the history of the game.0 -
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.runnymede said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
Dan Hannan spot on again in this article
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"Likely to resign" = "I don't really want to resign and don't really have any intention to but I don't agree with Corbyn either so I'll leak how unhappy I am in the vain hope that these hints will cause him to change his course"FrancisUrquhart said:
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
You don't leak that you're considering your position if you are in fact considering your position.0 -
The process of that bleeding out is going to be painful for all concerned.kle4 said:
The Tories are not beloved - those votes will go somewhere, and millions remain, even if Labour are awful.TGOHF said:Most likely outcome.
Labour bleed all the way to 2020 then Jezza goes and someone equally useless takes over.
By 2030 they share a taxi with the LDs.
Except, maybe, the SNP and possibly the Tories.0 -
Why would we brush an article under the carpet that saysblackburn63 said:
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.runnymede said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
Dan Hannan spot on again in this article
I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.0 -
To be fair UKIP isn't making a pitch for any votesWanderer said:
We are talking about people who are broadly speaking left-wing. UKIP isn't making a serious pitch for their votes.TGOHF said:
Indeed - most probably Ukip.kle4 said:
The Tories are not beloved - those votes will go somewhere, and millions remain, even if Labour are awful.TGOHF said:Most likely outcome.
Labour bleed all the way to 2020 then Jezza goes and someone equally useless takes over.
By 2030 they share a taxi with the LDs.
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It is not going to happen, and any attempt to do so would fail at the several hurdles:HYUFD said:
If there is a challenge the membership of course cannot be consulted otherwise there is no point even launching one, Benn would have to be elected by MPs unopposed like Michael HowardWanderer said:
We have to assume the membership is moving to the left though.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.kle4 said:
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.Wanderer said:
The membership won't vote for him.HYUFD said:
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or twoDavidBrackenbury said:Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.
1) Corbyn may get 35 nominations (not least because some MPs would oppose a stitch up)
2) The NEC is likely to rule that Corbyn as existing leader does not need nominations.
3) the outcry from the membership and selectorate would be so massive that MPs attemting such a coup would be pretty certain to be deselected.
The MPs need to convince the selectorate that Corbyn is not capable of delivering anything apart from chaos, feuding and defeat. The time to move is after the May elections, then have an open contest rather than a stitch up, so the new leader takes over at the autumn conference. Corbyn needs to be defeated the same way that he was appointed - in a fair fight.0 -
I know you're not Labour, but it is a mistake to see ebb & flow as inevitable. Labour might well just ebb & ebb. Eventually, of course, something will oppose the Conservatives, but it might take a long time.blackburn63 said:I totally understand why the pb Tories are enjoying the Labour farce but please don't rest easy, the inevitable political ebb and flow is coming your way soon. Dan Hannan confirms what a couple of us on here have been saying for a while, a vote to a Remain is not for the status quo it's a whole new level of involvement.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japan)0 -
As they are now the political wing of stop the war that would indeed appear to be their policy.JohnLilburne said:
Well if he speaks and votes that way I imagine he thinks that way. If it was settled Labour Party policy not to bomb IS in Syria, why wasn't the vote whipped? Arguably foreign/defence policies are not left to the individual consciences of MPs. Given that it was a free vote, you have to accept the consequences of that.surbiton said:
My objection is to his "free" thinking. A bomber should have no place in the Labour top table. He can do his principles [ i.e. bomb ] sitting on the backbenches.JohnLilburne said:
Huh? It was a free vote. MPs are entitled to speak and vote according to their conscience.surbiton said:Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. Benn went against the wishes of the members of the Labour Party.
In any case it was a one-off. Or is it now Labour policy never to bomb anyone, anywhere?
Corbyn might make an exception for the USA or Israel though :-)0 -
Dan's absolutely correct.blackburn63 said:
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.runnymede said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
Dan Hannan spot on again in this article0 -
Mike's being optimistic again
Unless there's a dramatic change those born under 1st majority LAB government (1945-51) will probably die under the Tories0 -
Morning all,blackburn63 said:I totally understand why the pb Tories are enjoying the Labour farce but please don't rest easy, the inevitable political ebb and flow is coming your way soon. Dan Hannan confirms what a couple of us on here have been saying for a while, a vote to a Remain is not for the status quo it's a whole new level of involvement.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.
Portillo has been saying the same thing (about a 'yes' vote actually being a vote for a whole new level of integration) for some time. This was why he was against a vote (believing the answer would be 'yes').0 -
If there are conflicting stories of who has agreed what with whom and what public face Lab puts on the matter it will remind voters of the worst of the Blair/Brown catfight years.Scott_P said:@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f0 -
Its the classic parent to a child, when the parent says time and time again, if you do that one more time there will be consequences.david_herdson said:
"Likely to resign" = "I don't really want to resign and don't really have any intention to but I don't agree with Corbyn either so I'll leak how unhappy I am in the vain hope that these hints will cause him to change his course"FrancisUrquhart said:
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
You don't leak that you're considering your position if you are in fact considering your position.0 -
I'm often classed as a PB Tory, yet that is has been my stated view on here for yonks now; perhaps a year or more.blackburn63 said:
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.runnymede said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
Dan Hannan spot on again in this article
To my mind it's the strongest reason to vote for leave.0 -
TSE I have a question: do you tuck your "I love Dave" tshirt in your y-fronts in the John Major style or do you let it hang loose?TheScreamingEagles said:
Why would we brush an article under the carpet that saysblackburn63 said:
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.runnymede said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
Dan Hannan spot on again in this article
I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.
The article points out quite clearly the reasons why we should leave the EU, of course you knew that and exactly as I predicted brushed it under the carpet.
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There are presumably only so many bars and restaurants in Islington where you don't bump into your neighbouring MP.DavidL said:0 -
@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
So let me get this right. When sitting on the front bench if he disagrees he then stands goes and sits on the backbench, then stands, says his piece, sits, then stands and returns to the front bench.
M'kay........ A new kinda politics indeed.
Who was that yesterday that was quipping about music chairs.....?
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When somebody yesterday said basically Benn had agree to wear a gimp mask, but could choose the colour of the zips, they were absolutely bang on.TOPPING said:
If there are conflicting stories of who has agreed what with whom and what public face Lab puts on the matter it will remind voters of the worst of the Blair/Brown catfight years.Scott_P said:@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f0 -
Playing the man again and not the ball again.blackburn63 said:
TSE I have a question: do you tuck your "I love Dave" tshirt in your y-fronts in the John Major style or do you let it hang loose?TheScreamingEagles said:
Why would we brush an article under the carpet that saysblackburn63 said:
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.runnymede said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
Dan Hannan spot on again in this article
I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.
The article points out quite clearly the reasons why we should leave the EU, of course you knew that and exactly as I predicted brushed it under the carpet.0 -
lolblackburn63 said:
To be fair UKIP isn't making a pitch for any votesWanderer said:
We are talking about people who are broadly speaking left-wing. UKIP isn't making a serious pitch for their votes.TGOHF said:
Indeed - most probably Ukip.kle4 said:
The Tories are not beloved - those votes will go somewhere, and millions remain, even if Labour are awful.TGOHF said:Most likely outcome.
Labour bleed all the way to 2020 then Jezza goes and someone equally useless takes over.
By 2030 they share a taxi with the LDs. 0 -
Insert Bennie Hill music....and minus the scantily clad women.Moses_ said:@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
So let me get this right. When sitting on the front bench if he disagrees he then stands goes and sits on the backbench, then stands, says his piece, sits, then stands and returns to the front bench.
M'kay........ A new kinda politics indeed.
Who was that yesterday that was quipping about music chairs.....?0 -
To be fair though, some key opponents have made it very clear where they stand. Chukka, Cooper, Kendel etc.Pulpstar said:
Christ, I don't know who is worse - Corbyn or his opponents.Pauly said:
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/684657980126662656FrancisUrquhart said:
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.Pauly said:"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
They're both as pathetic, and deserve each other.0 -
So what's Jez going to ask at PMQs?0
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Mr. Urquhart, that was me. And I agree with myself 0
